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The Spinner Is Lit - Episode 61 The Don Of '24 (1)

The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·2h 25m·analyzed·Jan 25, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Pinburgh returns with 150 players; Stern's Jaws analyzed for design choices and shark mechanic debate.

Summary

The Spinner Is Lit hosts Don Garrison from Don's Pinball Podcast to discuss Pinburgh's return in 2024 with 150 initial players and 3-4 day format, the revival of the historic tournament that once drew 1,200+ competitors. The episode extensively covers Stern's new Jaws pinball machine, debuting via livestream, analyzing Keith Elwin's design choices including the absence of a ball-eating shark mechanic, playfield layout similarities to Bond 60th, and the video mode homage to the 1972 Killer Shark arcade game.

Key Claims

  • Pinburgh was the international Super Bowl of pinball, with 1,000+ players at its peak, before COVID shut it down

    high confidence · Don, Mark, and Spencer discussing Pinburgh history; Spencer attended previously

  • Pinburgh uses 3-2-1-0 match play scoring format with 10 total rounds (5 morning, 5 afternoon) across 2 days, taking approximately 12 hours of continuous play

    high confidence · Mark and Spencer provide specific tournament format details from personal experience

  • Pinburgh 2024 will be held July 25-27 at the Resonate Esports Facility in Bridgeville, Pennsylvania with $25,000 in prize pool

    high confidence · Spencer reading event details during the podcast

  • Pinburgh tickets historically sold out in under 5 minutes for 1,000-ticket allocations

    high confidence · Mark and Spencer recall competitive ticket sales process

  • Stern's Jaws game features a horizontal spinner mechanic similar to Bond 60th, an upper playfield, and a bash toy as the main mechanism

    high confidence · Spencer, Mark, and Dan discussing observed features from Keith Elwin's debut video

  • The shark does not eat the ball in Jaws because Keith Elwin determined it would be mechanically lame and disrupt game flow

    high confidence · Dan quoting Keith's design rationale; Mark and Dan debate this decision

  • Jaws video mode includes a 3D homage to the 1972 Killer Shark mechanical arcade game that appeared in the movie

    high confidence · Don identifies the original game; group discusses integration into Stern version

  • Roy Scheider appears in Jaws video sequences (smoking with cigarette, throwing chum) but does not appear on the playfield

    high confidence · Spencer and Dan discussing video assets and content licensing

  • Jaws Pro and Premium versions look good visually, while the LE is considered ugly by some panelists

Notable Quotes

  • “Pittsburgh, awesome pinball town. Been there several times... this was like the event of the year, not only just in the U.S., but internationally people would travel to this.”

    Don Garrison @ early_episode — Establishes Pinburgh's historical significance as a global tournament draw

  • “Pinberg was one of the most fun tournaments to be in because it was a social event, but at the same time, it didn't feel as much pressure as when you go to InDesk.”

    Mark @ mid_episode — Characterizes the competitive appeal and social nature of the tournament format

  • “I think that the Keith Elwin game is the event right now in pinball. A couple years ago it was whatever JJP was doing. Now it's whatever Keith Elwin's doing.”

    Dan @ mid_episode — Industry sentiment that Keith Elwin is currently the marquee designer driving new machine announcements

  • “Jaws is great. Like, I've known about Jaws my whole life... honestly, like, I don't care about Jaws as a theme. I just want to see what Keith Elwin's going to do next.”

    Dan @ mid_episode — Highlights that the designer's reputation can overshadow the IP theme in driving anticipation

  • “What I love is that you see him smoking. Isn't that great? Like, he's straight sitting there with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth... I bet that they straight out said, like, you cannot alter the video.”

    Spencer @ mid_episode — Shows respect for Spielberg's unwillingness to censor classic film footage in licensed games

  • “Not having the shark eat the ball is a bad move by Stern... Give the people what they want.”

    Mark @ late_episode — Represents community expectation clash on design decisions for iconic thematic moments

  • “In a game where you hit a steel ball with a plastic paddle, I need innovation. That's why we have P. Curry, multimorphic.”

    Don Garrison @ late_episode — Positions Multimorphic as the innovation leader while defending traditionalist approaches to proven mechanics

Entities

Don GarrisonpersonSpencerpersonMarkpersonDanpersonKeith ElwinpersonPinburgheventStern PinballcompanyJawsgame

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Stern's Jaws pinball machine officially debuting via livestream; Keith Elwin design featuring horizontal spinners, bash toy, drop target shark, and video mode

    high · Keith Elwin debut video already released; full gameplay livestream scheduled for following day; game in advanced state with playable demo

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinburgh tournament returns after COVID hiatus with 150 initial players; historically major event that drew 1,200+ competitors and international travel

    high · July 25-27, 2024 dates confirmed; Resonate Esports Facility in Bridgeville, PA; $25,000 prize pool; tickets on sale May 5

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Community expectation clash over shark ball-eating mechanic absence; Keith Elwin rationale cited as avoiding lame/flow-breaking mechanic, but panelists debate alternative implementations

    high · 50 pages of Pinside complaints about missing mechanic; Mark argues it's 'bad move'; Don suggests innovation vs. replication debate; multiple mechanical solutions proposed (magnet, ramp, scoop)

  • ?

    design_innovation: Jaws features horizontal spinner mechanic and figure-eight loop design similar to Bond 60th; video mode includes 3D homage to 1972 Killer Shark arcade game

    high · Spencer and Dan identify playfield shot parallels to Bond 60th; Don identifies Killer Shark as 1972 Sega mechanical arcade game; video mode confirmed as 3D recreation

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Keith Elwin's reputation as marquee designer supersedes Jaws IP interest; Dan explicitly states designer reputation more important than theme for generating anticipation

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.436

0:00
Welcome to episode 61 of the Spinner's Lit Pinball Podcast, the dawn of 24. I'm your host, Spencer. With me tonight is my co-host, Mark. Hey, everyone. Dan. Hey, what's going on, folks? And our very special guest co-host from Don's Pinball Podcast is Don. Welcome, Don. I'm here. Hello. Thanks for the invite. Much appreciated.
0:45
To be fair, you asked for this. So you're in for it now. Thank you for finally responding. Well, when you sent me the money, I couldn't say no.
0:58
Yeah, five bucks is five bucks. Hey, man, 20 bucks. Yeah, I saw that on a bumper sticker the other day. So, yeah, man, it's the new year. It's 2024. We got a lot of pinball stuff going on, a lot to talk about. You guys know Pinberg's back. I know. I saw that. I'm so excited.
1:19
Isn't this great? So excited. Yes. Hey, Don, what are your thoughts on this? Yeah, so Pittsburgh, awesome pinball town. Been there several times, like a swing through and head up Helicon when I get in there. Yeah, I wasn't around in the tournament space when this thing was huge from before, but talking to people, this was like the event of the year, not only just in the U.S., but internationally people would travel to this. So from the fires of COVID-19, the phoenix is rising for the first return of Pinberg with like 150 machines or so. Well, right, it was the Super Bowl of pinball. Or 150 tickets, I guess.
1:59
TM. Yeah, 150 that they're starting off with. Kind of like what they started off Pemburg when it first started, was about the same amount of people. Yeah, wasn't it like 1,000 people there at the end? Like they had 1,000 people playing? Yeah, at the end it was like 1,200, I think, was the last one, which is pretty cool. But I think I was there.

medium confidence · Mark expressing personal aesthetic opinion on different cabinet tiers

  • Stern's Jaws debut livestream was scheduled for the day after recording (tomorrow from episode air date)

    high confidence · Don confirming the streaming schedule

  • “So it's a drop target. It is a drop target... It's back and forth... it's a cool Mac.”

    Mark and others @ late_episode — Technical playfield mechanical details being debated and confirmed during live viewing analysis

    • Roy Scheiderperson
    Spielbergperson
    InDeskevent
    ReplayFXevent
    PAPAorganization
    Bond 60thgame
    Killer Sharkgame
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Lord of the Ringsgame
    The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcastorganization
    Multimorphiccompany
    Bowen Kerinsperson
    Josh Sharpperson
    Damienperson

    high · Dan: 'I don't care about Jaws as a theme. I just want to see what Keith Elwin's going to do next, because I think that the Keith Elwin game is the event right now in pinball'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Spielberg enforced strict content preservation on Jaws film footage; no text overlay allowed (unlike Bond 60th); Roy Scheider appears in full-resolution video sequences

    medium · Spencer: 'I bet that they straight out said, like, you cannot alter the video. There you go. You know, do not replace that gun with a walkie-talkie'; comparison to Bond 60th constraints

  • $

    market_signal: Pinburgh historical ticket scarcity created intense FOMO; 1,000 tickets sold out in under 5 minutes; 150-player restart may indicate vendor/capacity constraints

    high · Mark: 'Pinburg sells out like in five minutes with 1,000 tickets... everybody's just waiting by the computer, hitting refresh'; Spencer references people unable to work due to ticket rush

  • ?

    content_signal: Jaws debut scheduled for livestream with real-time gameplay; Keith Elwin hands-on demonstration; community awaiting full rules/modes reveal

    high · Don confirms 'they're going to do the stream. They're going to do the debut stream tomorrow'; group discussing 10 minutes of initial video before full reveal

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinside discussion characterized as overwhelmingly negative nitpicking; 50+ pages of complaints about shark mechanic absence despite designer justification

    high · Mark: 'I had COVID last week, and I was in bed, and I read Pinside, and pretty much out of the 50 pages I read, it was all people bitching about the ball not being eaten by the shark'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Keith Elwin established as current marquee designer; referred to as 'the event right now in pinball'; JJP previously held this position

    high · Dan: 'A couple years ago it was whatever JJP was doing. Now it's whatever Keith Elwin's doing. Those are all great points, and more else said'

  • ?

    product_concern: Concerns raised about robustness of drop-target shark mechanism; speculation about long-term reliability compared to fin-ramp design that had ball launch issues

    medium · Mark: 'My only concern is how robust is it. Hopefully it goes a long way before it breaks... more robust than having it shaped like a fin because I heard that the ball just launched off of it'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Debate between thematic satisfaction (shark eating ball) and mechanical flow (Keith Elwin's rationale against it); tension between designer vision and community expectations

    high · Keith stated it 'didn't work because it was lame and it was not going to be fun'; panelists debate whether thematic payoff worth mechanical complexity; proposed alternatives discussed

    • 2:24
    When they had it. How many days does it go for? Yeah, was it like a big four-day event or something? Because I don't know how you keep up the stamina for that.
    2:32
    It is. It's actually, I think it's three days, and then the fourth day is the finals. But it goes in conjunction when they used to have replay effects. Yeah, which was the show. Yes. And it was at the convention center in Pittsburgh, like you mentioned. and it was a great show, had a lot of games on the free play area. But then the place to go, of course, was Pinberg, where they had four machines in each bank, and I think they had, like, I can't remember how many games there were, but, like, at least up to 300, 350 games just in the Pinberg area. It might even be more than that. I can't remember exactly, but it definitely was enough to accommodate the many people who played in the tournament.
    3:22
    Wow. Right. Well, there was a time before Replay FX where it was actually at the PAPA headquarters, right? I don't think it was Pinberg then. Well, they had Pinberg and PAPA, I thought, or was I mistaken on that? I think that was two different things. That was like the PAPA World Championships. Okay. Okay, and that was at the facility where they had like 400 plus games. Yeah, that was at the Papa facility. Yeah. And then they had Pinberg, which was its own, and then it joined ReplayFX? Correct. Okay, that's what I was thinking. Because I didn't think they were the exact same thing. And now we have, like now the World Championship, because I think Papa went away, so the world championship became Pinnberg and then Pinnberg went away so the world championship now is Indisc which is a great tournament like it's amazing we have like three people from our local league went to this last one but I don't think it ever quite had like that magic that Pinnberg had built up it's also you know kind of a newer show but yeah the Pinnberg show was it definitely had that big game feel the big fight feel you know well pinberry was awesome because you played against all different levels of players in the first round actually 10 rounds you had on the first day and it didn't matter if they were a b c or d division is what they divided it up into and what i noticed is that uh it was interesting because then based on your results that determined if you were in a division b division c division d division on the next day. So you really felt like, okay, you don't have to feel pressure to get into A because you know you'll get destroyed, which I know I would have. But then B is kind of like, wow, that's pretty great celebration to be able to get in that level of players. And then of course you had C and D. So you really had a chance throughout that tournament with people that you play against at your same level. And that's what made it so much fun because the first part, like I said, is playing everybody. You could be having Keith Allen in your group. I had Josh Sharp in my group when we were playing Banzai Run, and I was a little intimidated, to say the least. Okay, so you went to Pinnberg. I went to Pinnberg, absolutely. There you go. So we got an expert in our midst. Yes. Yes, I did. I participated. I didn't know that. I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't tell you. Yes.
    5:54
    Yes. How many times have I gone by? Yeah, Pinberg was one of the most fun tournaments to be in because it was a social event, but at the same time, it didn't feel as much pressure as when you go to InDesk. Because InDesk is like serious big guns, card system. You mess up on a game, throw out your card, got to do another set of cards to get the best games you can. Where Pinberg's like, well, I get a one or I get a three or a two, and it kind of evens it out after a while. where you don't have to feel as much pressure when you're playing. But it's just super fun. And the amount of people and how many people travel all around the world that come to this event, especially when they had 1,000 players, it was really a sight to behold.
    6:44
    See, I can see getting into something like that. If it was a tournament that I'd have to qualify for, me being the world's most average player, I don't think I could really partake or hang for that long. But something like that where it kind of adjusts to your level of performance That could be kind of fun.
    7:00
    Exactly, yeah. It's a match play format, and there are 10 rounds. So you have five rounds in the morning, and you have five rounds in the afternoon. And it is a lot of pinball. We're talking 20 rounds total in just two days' time. So you're playing literally from 10 a.m. all the way to 11 p.m. Wow. So it's almost 12 hours of straight pinball with breaks, of course, in between, But not much. You get about a half-hour break for dinner and, like, barely a lunch break, and you're off to the races playing pinball nonstop. And the other cool thing about Pinberg is the format. Not only does it have the 3-2-1-0 scoring, but the other cool thing about it is that every bank has a different machine represented for the era. So you'll always have an EM. You'll have an early solid state, and you'll have either a late solid state or LCD. In that case, I'm trying to think. I don't know if LCD was around back then. I don't think it was when I was last in Pinnberg, but the DMD era. So you always have four different machines that you play, and you play all four machines with your group in that bank. It's really fun. And they were set hard. The amazing thing, too, is how they set those machines to exactly take only a half hour per round. It's pretty amazing when you look at it. They all ended at the same time. And I don't know how they timed it right, but they made them super hard that they were pretty much drain monsters and you had to really play well to play on those machines because they took out the rubbers, they took out the center posts when they had them in there. They obviously increased the sensitivity of the slingshots, and it definitely made the machine a lot harder to allow the rounds to go quicker because you're not going to be sticking around forever waiting for other groups to finish. Somehow they just finished all at the same time before you went on to the next round. Pretty amazing. I don't know if it was a half hour. I mean, it was an hour. I can't remember exactly. I think it was an hour per round. So that would be about right.
    9:15
    Yeah, interesting. Yeah, as long as everything's set hard but it's the same for everybody, I like that because then it's not going to take, you know, a top-end player is going to play for 60 minutes or something.
    9:27
    Correct. Exactly. All right, well, bring it. Yeah, sounds fun. I hope it continues and grows from here. And, yeah, I'll definitely check it out at some point.
    9:36
    Yeah, you wonder if they're going to have that step up, right? Like if they're going to go, what was it, 150, and then next year is going to be 300, and how many years it's going to take them to get back to what they were before or if that's even the plan.
    9:51
    Right. And the thing is it's like a lottery system where you obviously there's a lot of tournaments that have a huge demand, and Pinbury sells out like in five minutes with 1,000 tickets. It's crazy. Like I remember when I sat there and it was like, you know, like I was at cloud nine when I was able to get in and purchase my ticket because they just sell out so fast because everybody's just waiting by the computer, hitting refresh, waiting to be able to hit that buy ticket now. So it's a huge tournament that's on demand with a lot of people that really want to participate in that. Yeah, I remember back when there was still, you know, Pinberg, like you said, was selling out in tenants or under for 1,000 tickets. And it's just like people are like, nobody's getting any work today because they're all trying to get Pinberg tickets. Exactly. And I was like, no, I can't teach a class now. I got shit to do. I still have. Interesting side note.
    10:49
    Damien, shout out to Damien, one of the co-founders of the Capital Quarter Pinball League, would always get cool stern swag to give away at the tournaments, like, you know, key chains and, you know, key fobs, stuff like that, stickers. And he would always throw a handful of Papa tokens in. And so I still, I grabbed a couple because I always wanted to go to Papa, and I just never got to go. And then they closed up, and I still have a couple of those tokens. You know, maybe they'll bring those back someday. Yeah.
    11:20
    Well, like I said, Papa itself still exists, right? Just the facility doesn't. Correct, yeah. In fact, they're doing, you know, Bowen, I just saw he's got a new tutorial video on Gottlieb Genesis. I watched it just the other night just came out so he's back to doing pop-up tutorials again with generous help from some people donating funds to support that and get the camera crews out and all that good stuff so I don't know all their names but shout out to whoever they are for supporting that endeavor that's pretty cool when is Pinberg taking place? do you know what the dates are? it was July something I can look it up here Yeah. I know tickets go on sale the 5th, right, of next month? Okay.
    12:12
    Is this the whole, like, F5 thing? Yeah, it's a whole F5 thing. Like, 25th to the 27th, 2027, 2024. 25th through the 27th. Okay, cool. At the Resonate Esports Facility in Bridgeville, Pennsylvania. $25,000 in prizes. That'd be fun. That's a lot of good advice. I know one thing that was really cool when I was there is eBay sponsored the tournament, which was pretty cool having a big sponsor like that. That was cool. And we can get pinball going as a big e-sports thing. Can you imagine? Oh, I know. And I think now with the popularity of pinball, with competitive pinball, maybe they could get a really good sponsor. You never know. Get Mountain Dew pinball edition going or something. You know, something major like that. Yeah, no kidding. Monster Energy. Yeah, no, those were just Doritos.
    13:09
    I think that there was like a whole thing not far back as to they were looking at why pinball doesn't work as like a competitive e-sport, and it's because of the time investment.
    13:23
    That is so true. It's really long. Yeah, the only way they could do it, Dan, is probably like what they do with the – where they do the time limit. What is that called? Pin class. Like the stern challenges that they were doing. Yeah. It's not guys just trying to play a game forever and run up a giant score, but it's like, yeah, you're trying to, you know, you either have so long to play or you're trying to meet some sort of objective.
    13:50
    Exactly. Yep. Well, there's no way you can do an agony of defeat for why a world's sports with pinball involved, you know, and you got to have that. Oh, no, you can definitely do the agony of defeat with pinball. Just you're not going to go flying off of a ski ramp. You're not going to end up in a body cast, you know. It'll be just like a power drain, like ding, ding, ah.
    14:14
    And somebody like rage tilting. And then somebody like flipping off the machine like 600 times. Or as we call that, the Spencer. The Spencer, the double fingers. Doing the Spencer, the double deuce.
    14:31
    But, yeah, it's cool, man. I mean, for a pinball marquee event to be coming back, like, that's super exciting. So I'm not going to go to Pinnberg or to Pittsburgh and play in it, but I will watch it on the Internet. There you go. I'd love to go, but I'm going to wait until there's more players because I don't think I'd be able to get a ticket and get lucky with that with only 120 players. At least there's something for the flippers to look forward to, right? Because if they can score a ticket, think of what they can flip it for.
    14:58
    Yeah, true. Good point. Because we're not flipping machines anymore, man, at this market. That's a good point, yeah, which brings me to our next topic because there's a lot of debate and discussion about this new game, Jaws, Stern's newest pinball machine, been anticipated for some time, you know, batted around the interwebs. Wait, no, I thought it was Flipper. I would actually love a Flipper machine. That never even entered my mind, Dan, but now that you said it, I'm like, yeah, that would be cool.
    15:38
    What was the kid's name? Rusty? I don't remember. It had to be Timmy or Billy, right? It had to be. It's like, let's talk about Timmy. I'll tell you a Timmy story about my dog. I think that that's what you do. Like, you start yourself a janky knockoff pinball company. You just make the exact same game, but just game it as flipper. The dolphin comes out from under the boat. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah. My dogs are always that way. I have two dogs, two hunting dogs. One's a red-boned coonhound named Daisy, and the other one's an American poxhound named Jack. They don't want to actually hunt, but they're hunting-type dogs. So they just lay on the couch a lot and bitches go outside.
    16:23
    One day, Daisy's just going ape shit. So I look at her, and I'm like, what's the matter, girl? Timmy, Timmy, fall down. Because I'm like, I'm not feeling it. I'm tired or whatever. Timmy, fall down alone. I'm like, well, fuck him. Fuck him right in his ear. And my wife just shot coffee out of her mouth. She thought that was hilarious.
    16:37
    I thought you were going to say there was a dolphin in the yard. I was going to be really impressed. There was a dolphin in the yard. No, but there's a squirrel that gives him bullshit every morning. Just sits in the trunk of the tree and just messes with him endlessly. Because he knows, because they're never going to get me, you know. But anyway, so Jaws, Turner's newest game.
    16:57
    First thoughts. I always loved the movie. Dan and I were talking offline a couple weeks ago. It's an iconic.
    17:05
    You know what? I'm going to let you tell it, Dan, because you tell it better. Talk about Jaws, the movie, from its standpoint in pop culture. Well, to be fair, Spencer's excited about Jaws because Spencer's a sailor.
    17:19
    That's true. That is fair. Spencer, how old were you in 75? Well, I turned 10 that year, but not until December. So when the movie came out in the summer, I was nine. So, yeah, that's awesome. Like, that's the pop culture nail. Like, that's it. You know, 10 years old, whatever you love when you're 10 years old, you'll probably love forever. Jaws is an important movie. It's the dawn of the modern blockbuster. Like, it was the original summer blockbuster. And I can understand why people are excited about Jaws. But I think most people are just sort of excited about Keith Elwin number five. Yes.
    17:54
    Right? Like, Jaws is great. Like, I've known about Jaws my whole life. I'm a 75 baby, so, you know, I saw Jaws when I was old enough to watch a scary-ish movie, and it was like, ugh, sharks. But honestly, like, I don't care about Jaws as a theme. I just want to see what Keith Elwin's going to do next, because I think that the Keith Elwin game is the event right now in pinball. A couple years ago it was whatever JJP was doing. Now it's whatever Keith Elwin's doing.
    18:25
    Those are all great points, and more else said. Yeah, for me it is more of a nostalgia wank, you know, because, again, that summer we had Jaws, and it was the first time we had this massive summer blockbuster where I'd see, like, posters and T-shirts at the local, you know, discount store. You know The five and dimes of Woolworths you know Like I said you would see tank tops And the iron on transfers where you go You buy your shirt or your tank top or your Whatever and you'd pick out your Iron on transfer and they'd put it in the machine And put it on for you and then the next Summer was King Kong And then the summer after that was What we talked about the other night Dan We talked for a while was Star Wars Where that literally you know broke Everything man because it was so huge. But, you know, a lot of people pissing and moaning, they're always on, the shark doesn't eat the bull. Okay, that's fair, I guess. I'm excited to play it because I think it looks good, and I'm excited they got a lot of the assets. Well, they got them all, right? Well, Roy Scheider, he's in the video, and you have sound bites from him, but he's like he's not on the play field or anything. Yeah, but I mean, he's all over the game. Like, the first thing you see in the game is you see Brody jumping in his truck. Yeah. You see him. What I love is that you see him smoking. Isn't that great? Like, he's straight sitting there with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth. He's, like, throwing chum in the water. And you're just like, oh, that's funny. I bet that they straight out said, like, you cannot alter the video.
    20:00
    There you go. You know, do not replace that gun with a walkie-talkie. I think that Spielberg learned that lesson. Thank you. Yeah, I like that the screen's full resolution, too, so they didn't have that stipulation like on Bond where they couldn't have text overlying the actual film footage, so that's why the screen, when it shows film footage, is so much smaller and looks kind of weird. How weird. It looks like a DVD menu from, like, you know, 1998. I will say a couple of the standout shots from Bond 60th that I really liked, like that figure eight shot on the left, this looks like it has a couple of shots kind of like that, too, the shot that doubles back on itself through the spinner on the left, and then on the right you go through that horizontal spinner, they're calling it, and it kind of feeds right back. Those look like fun shots. I think the game's going to be fun. The fact that a character's missing from the play field doesn't kill it for me, and the assets do look fun. And 3D mode on the video mode, come on. Which is an homage to the actual game that was in the movie. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, it was like a Sega something or another. I don't remember what it was. I'm so glad you guys mentioned that because I actually put that in my personal notes it's Killer Shark by Sega 1972 I remember playing that at like it was an arcade it was a place when I was a kid it was a pool hall we weren't supposed to go there as kids because it was like you could smoke cigarettes and drink beer so the front was pinball and they had that they had like pong, stunt cycle Natari driving game I think it was Night Driver The old boot heel cowboy Gun fight you need to get the idea You know this is the 70s And they had about a dozen pinball machines And nobody ever bothered us We never bothered anybody we never went down Into the pool hall we stayed in the arcade But after Jaws came out they had that Game in there and I remember Playing that game and I was like Thinking god I hope they Integrate that somehow Because I was thinking, like, make a little miniature one of it that they could put on the play field or something, you know, cheesy, like, in Tron. And then here they have the video mode of kind of an homage to that game. And you can do it in 3D, which is even cooler.
    22:20
    Don is designing that as we speak now. He's got it on a 3D printer. The wheels are turning right now. Like, $100, baby. Send me one, guys. Just send me one for free, you know. And if you want a roof on it. That was 60.
    22:35
    That was actually a pre-video game. That was actually a mechanical arcade game that did like a film strip or something. That's what I wanted to know. Because when I watched it, it looked like a video game. But it isn't a video game, right? No. From that movie. Yeah. The one in the movie. Because it shows a scene, actually. Yeah. It's a pre-video. It's from 1972. which was, you know, 1972 was the birth of, you know, the real birth of video games with Pong and Tank Battle or whatever.
    23:10
    But, yeah, it's a mechanical arcade game that runs like a little film strip loop thing. Maybe there is some video in there. I don't know. I'll have to look at it again.
    23:20
    So it uses a film strip. I was wondering how that shark looked realistic on that scene. I'm like, I know it didn't have the technology. What's really funny is the one I remember playing, the bulb was, like, bad, so it was really dark. You could barely see the stuff. It was really, I mean, really bad. You know, because it was old and beat up, man. I mean, this was a pool hall, you know. They're very mechanical, so they would wear out. Yeah.
    23:51
    That's cool. And I'll just speak, by the way, all we've really seen on this is that initial Elwynn. Yeah, it's an actual film. I'm watching it now. I'm sorry, Darren. Go ahead. Right? Nobody's seen more of the Elwynn video because they're going to do the stream. They're going to do the debut stream tomorrow. Tomorrow. For understandings. Yep. So we're just kind of going off of about 10 minutes of video and seeing Keith play around with that game. I don't know. I think it looks like it's going to be fun. I don't think it looks like it's going to be the best Elwin. I mean, I won't know until I shoot it, but it looks okay. It's got a bash toy, and it's got those vertical or horizontal spinners, which I think is kind of lame, but I don't really care too much about Jaws. I think the LE is kind of ugly. I think that the Pro and the Premium look good. so hopefully it gets it done I mean there's a lot of people really excited you know I mean when I first saw the video on the trailer I thought it was pretty cool I saw the shark popping out I saw the horizontal spinners the upper play field and it looked like it was a really fun shooter and like what you said Don I did see that element the first thing that came to mind was that figure eight loop that Vaughn 60th has. And I was like, yes, they included it in a newer Stern, I guess, or not really a newer Stern, but a modern type game, if that makes sense. I don't know. But it really looks like that would be a fun shot to make. And, yeah, I read through Pinside. I had COVID last week, and I was in bed, and I read Pinside, and pretty much out of the 50 pages I read, it was all people bitching about the ball not being eaten by the shark. Right. That pretty much sums up the pin side posts. And what's really interesting is even though Keith said it didn't work because it was lame and it was not going to be fun to have that mechanic in there, people still bitched about it. And it just killed me to see that. It's like, okay, if it would have ate the ball, then they would have been bitching, saying, oh, another game that eats the ball. You know, oh, okay, we had already Jurassic Park that had the dinosaur eat the ball, which really it didn't. It held it, but still pretty close to it. The dinosaur eats the ball in the real Jurassic Park, the daily yeast one. It does, right? So it's said and done. Eats the lawyer. Okay. Yeah, exactly. And it will kill the flow. If you have to shoot it in the mouth, you're going to have to wait for the ball to return somehow. And what is it, essentially? It's a scoop.
    26:48
    No, no, no, Mark, because the main toy on this game is a bash toy. So it's not really going to be a flow kind of game. It's got that captive ball bash toy, and then it's got the shark bash toy. Not having the shark eat the ball is a bad move by Stern. Okay, so you're on that camp. No, no, no. I'm not like, oh, my God, it doesn't eat the ball. But I'm just saying, give the people what they want. Yeah. Right? Like, it's almost insane that they have something that's like such a gimme. Just come up with a way for the ball. You know, the ball can go into the mouth of the monster on Stranger Things. Right? Right. The ball could go into the mouth, and it could dribble out behind it. It didn't even need a subway or it could have an up post or a popper or something.
    27:40
    It's just a really, really bad decision. I don't think it's going to ruin the game or nothing, but it's just like it kind of, you know, it's just kind of missing the point. Here's my free idea for this, right? So you hit him one to three times or whatever. That final shot, a magnet in front of the shark activates, grabbing the ball, and then pulls it down underneath the play field like Jaws is going under the water, grabs you and pulls you down. Then it rolls into a subway and locks or something. Yeah, feel the metallic. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. What if the magnet grabbed the ball, all the lights went down, and then it was kind of moonlit, and then you hear the waves, and then all of a sudden your ball starts getting tugged on, and then the thing just gets drug underneath with a big fountain of red lights and LEDs. That's what I thought we were going to get. It's like the moment from the game.
    28:29
    Now that's cool. That sounds like a moment. To start to come up, like peek-a-boo, get hit, and then go right back away, and like that was it. It's like, well, that's not it. Like it doesn't shake or rattle or anything, you know?
    28:43
    Yeah. So it's like the next time you come back, you have to hit him twice, then he peek-a-boos away, and then the third time's three times, and that lights the insert. I don't know. I want to see more.
    28:53
    That's where my mind would have gone to it. And it's turned some clever people. I'm sure they thought of this, but, you know, whether there was no room under there for the mech or no way to implement it, who knows? But, man, that would have been cool. I'm making it harder than it needs to be, though. What you do is you just straight rip off Lord of the Rings.
    29:11
    And the shark is up on the back, and there's a ramp, and you just pop the ball up into the shark's mouth like you're hitting it through the ring. Yeah. And then the final mode, you have the ring magnet where it holds the ball, and then you get a smile, you son of a bitch moment, and you launch the ball up into the other ball, and you knock it through. Yeah. There you go. No Subway. No fancy mechanism. You could do it on the Pro, and everybody would have, like, I mean, yeah, okay, we did it on Lord of the Rings. But, you know, I think everybody would have been okay with that. Except for, you know, the hardcore sort of just like, they did that in Lord of the Rings. I'm a big proponent of grab things that were awesome and worked before and reuse them. You know, I don't see that as a bad thing. You know, maybe you could take a new take at it or something. But, yeah, like if it worked before, go with it again. You know? What innovation?
    30:06
    It's like a different music or something. In a game where you hit a steel ball with a plastic paddle, I need innovation.
    30:17
    That's why we have P. Curry, multimorphic. Yeah. We want innovation, just not that. Yeah. Just not that innovation, yeah. Now, we talked about the pro a little bit. Oh, did we decide is that a drop target with the thin or is it a stand-up target with the thin? No, it drops. It's a drop target. It is a drop target. Or was it like a stationary target that just goes down kind of like pin botics of just one? No, it's back and forth. Yeah, no, it looks real cool. It's a cool Mac. Then it's got the red LEDs so that it looks like they're live. Right. That's really cool with the way the light changes. I started looking at that going, oh, it's changing the blood. That's cool. Because I like the blue. I thought that blue lighting is really cool. And I started seeing the red lighting and went, oh, yeah, that's neat. My only concern is how robust is it. Hopefully it goes a long way before it breaks. Well, it would be a lot more robust than having it shaped like a fin because I heard that the ball just launched off of it. Yeah, it was like a ramp. That's what they said. Right? Yeah, I heard that too. So it just launches off of there, or it doesn't keep its integrity to break, probably. And, yeah, I know. Everybody's like, oh, there's a sticker on it. And then they were also bitching like, oh, is it going to go backwards? And it looks like they thought of that, where it will come up. And I don't know yet, because we haven't seen a full gameplay yet, But it looks like it will go back down and then reset and then come back up and then keep going forward instead of going backwards, back and forth, like Mick on a target for a Rolling Stones. Mick on a stick.
    32:07
    Yep. So I don't know. Like I said, that's where – I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen until I watch the full gameplay. But when I saw when Keith was playing it, it seemed like it popped up on the left side and then it moved over to the right. and then it disappeared when it got hit, and then it recessed. I would rather that it actually move back and forth, even if it only shows the fin going one direction, because I think that would be more fun. Yeah, I agree. I agree with you. I'm not enough of a marine biologist for that to really bother me.
    32:38
    But I'm just super cool that that made it into the pro, because I've got to imagine that that's not a cheat mechanism. Right. Yeah. My only beef so far, honestly, and Dan and I were talking about this a few days ago, it's not a big deal. You can probably do the mod yourself, is if you go back to Baywatch and the mini shark fin flipper, I think there was a missed opportunity to reuse that part. Yeah, they should have had a shark flipper. That would have been cool. There are going to be so many 3D-printed shark flipper fins. You don't need to worry. They're already out there.
    33:11
    They're already done, man. There's a guy in Toledo with like 700 of them sitting in boxes ready to shoot. They're only $80 each. There you go.
    33:21
    Well, I know that a lot of the mod makers will be creating some awesome stuff for that game that Stern missed out on because it's almost like Stern does it on purpose so the mod makers can make cool stuff to replace stuff that is so cheap on their games. But the whole idea behind it is that it definitely has an original layout, a little more fan layout, but I don't mind. I like those kind of games, too. I'm not complaining, but the rule sets look fun. I mean, it's kind of fun where you're a Clint and you have to hunt for sharks, and I like how you have to spin the reel just like you're reeling it in on a fishing line. I don't know. It's kind of cool. I think the rules are going to trump the issues that we had with people being disappointed with the mechs. But we'll see. I don't know. I think the rules look a lot of fun. It's definitely hard to follow, though. Did you notice that when Keith was playing it, like how it just jumps from one clip to the next and it's like, okay, where am I at? Am I in this mode? What's going on here? And all of a sudden you see people screaming, you know, in the water. And then all of a sudden it jumps to Brody and, you know, putting in the old spice. Yeah. It's kind of weird. Like it goes back and forth. So I'm sure it's early code, but it was kind of hard to follow to see exactly what was happening in the game. Even when Keith was explaining it. And, of course, he was just perfect precision hitting every shot. It almost looked boring because he was making every shot. So he was already getting to the, like, mini wizard mode. Didn't he get to the mini wizard mode already? And then he just stopped. Yeah. Well, I guess that's enough, guys. Bye. Did George Lucas hit?
    34:59
    He did George Lucas hit. Okay, I guess I'm done. There was, like, way, way too much of, like, Brody chumming the water. This is Jar Jar.
    35:09
    Yep. He's going to be the big hit with the tens. Did they name the shark toy Gay Bruce? They named Bruce? Or Bruce? Not Gay Bruce. Sorry. They call him Bruce on Pinside all the time. So, yeah, I guess that was the mechanic that didn't work. Yeah. Well, Steven Spielberg named the shark actor's lawyer Bruce. Right. That's correct. I brought up a picture of the Baywatch shark fin flipper. And, yeah, this thing looks ridiculous. Is it not a dolphin, though? Is it a shark? I guess you can't tell just from the flipper here.
    35:45
    It is a shark. That looks so dumb. I'm sure it's going to be great. Hilarious. Shark, shark. That actually is a super cool game. It really is. And I've never seen this show, ever. All these games based on lame properties are good. And I think the reason is because the studio or whoever was making the film or TV show had some money in the marketing budget, and they put it towards a pinball machine. And the pinball designers you know I mean the games are designed by people that make great games So just because it Baywatch or Waterworld you know it doesn mean it doesn like shoot well It not really fun right I mean you know look at Shadow Who saw that movie, you know? I actually did.
    36:28
    Terrible movie. The irony of Baywatch, though, is that it came out from Sega, right? And that was just a real dark, like, Sega was, like, putting a lot of stuff in games because I think that that was how they competed, but, like, the games were never very good, like Mary Shelley's and Batman and whatnot. But somehow, of all the lame properties you could have picked, Baywatch kind of bucks the trend and ends up being super fun despite having a really poor theme and a lot of stuff going on. I also love those gigantic Sega DMDs. Like, they were so good, especially when you put the XL color DMD in it. We were playing, God, what were we playing? We were playing Mary Shelley's at Pinnagogo, and I was like, man, this game sucks, but this display makes me want one.
    37:22
    It looks so great. Like, I can't believe that, like, of all the things that Sega ever did, that, like, that was the one that nobody decided to rip off until the Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars and all those remakes, they decided to do larger DMV displays because they just looked amazing. Mm-hmm. They were cool. They are. They're great. Batman Forever sucks, but I want a Batman Forever just to put that giant display in. Yeah. We just get the Maverick game. Oh, yeah, Maverick, too. That's another one that had a big display. Yeah, but Maverick is just bad. Well, you know, the Riverboat's pretty cool, you know If you don't mind waiting 41 minutes to get your ball back I'm trying to like rescue 911 Where you have to wait forever for that helicopter To take it, but it is a cool Mac But it does take a long time It's always broken Always, always broken All those games are not as good as Jaws though No No, they're not.
    38:33
    Any more thoughts on Jaws? I mean, so pro premium, where's everybody coming down? I haven't really been following that yet.
    38:41
    You know, the Sharks' fin mech is in both of them, so that's great. Stand-up targets versus drop targets, I don't see, like, a whole huge game there. Peek-a-boo Shark is kind of underwhelming. So is the upper play field on Jaws worth $3,000 extra or not? I think peek-a-boo shark, you got to kind of have it.
    39:01
    Like, it might not be great, but it's the big mechanical feature. Upper playfield throws away. It's like people can take or leave. Yeah. I'm an upper playfield guy. I love upper playfield. Okay, same. I'm a premium dude generally, but even I can see, like, you know, I don't think you're losing much on the pro. Plus, you get a better view of that art in the back box, too, or the back of the playfield where, like, you see the whole Amity Harbor there. It's missing because the upper play field just knocks out that back plate.
    39:29
    Oh, I didn't notice that. So I don't know. But either way, you still have that same wave ramp to go up to the wire form on the pro or the upper play field. And I want to see some more footage of that being shot and how easy it is to get up there because it looked like there was some rattle rejections there, and that would kill the whole thing if that shot is super hard to get consistently. Yeah. You know what? It does do really, really well in all the different versions, though, especially with the art blades. Like, it's a really good environment. Like, it really does nail the world under glass thing. Oh, yeah. It looks like the ocean and the harbor and the boats and the shark. Like, that's really cool. I love games that do that. Yeah, I mean, picturing, like, what I would expect from a Jaws machine, this is what I would picture in my head that it would look like. You know, wire-form ramps, the ocean, the beach, the harbor, the marina, some buildings. Perfect. Exactly. The Amity Beach sign. Wonderful and inexpensive little touch. And you know what's funny? They were bitching about the sailboat not being there. It's there. It's just hard to see. But it's there. Yeah. Remember they were saying that on Pinside? Yeah. That the sailboat was missing. They forgot that. I know. It's there. It's freaking there. Yeah, well, it didn't have the orca. The orca's there. It's the mini play field. Exactly. And it's got Hooper's boat. And it's got call-offs by Richard Dreyfuss. How cool is that? I mean, he gets really bored.
    40:58
    Did you see that clip? Oh, super jackpot. Okay. You know what came to mind when I was watching him do that? Look, not everybody is John Rhys-Davies, okay?
    41:09
    If you've ever seen The Simpsons where Lisa Simpson is doing some kind of voiceover, or, yeah, I think it was Lisa Simpson, And Krusty comes in, he's smoking a cigarette, throws it down, and, hey, kids, hey, hey, buy my cereal. That's how you do it, kid. You know, and he's like, I'm not pretending, you know. And that's what reminded me of, like, I'm doing this because it's a paycheck. You know, it's like, wow. He did it because he wanted to because, you know, Dr. doesn't need the money. He did get out of the nursing home for four hours.
    41:39
    Exactly. I've been giving him a machine. I bet he's just excited to be getting a pinball machine. Yeah. Like, you know, it isn't like they made a What About Bob Oh man I would play the hell out of that What About Bob? Oh yeah I've got my Bob The pop figure Where it's tied to the cell phone I'm sailing I'm sailing, I've got that sitting on my desk So good, that movie is so good Yeah Yeah, that's sitting on my desk right now Along with my Macs and my death from Marvin from, God, why can't I think now? My brain's like, I need more comedy. How do they pitch that movie? All right, take a misery, but as a comedy.
    42:28
    There you go. That's it. That's all you got to say. Yeah. It's like misery, except for we're not going to have the scene where we break the guy's ankles. That just makes you automatically go like, ah!
    42:43
    There's not a man in the world who's seen that movie that doesn't do that when that scene shows up. Oh, God. I'm a real fan. Written by Stephen King. That's what we're going for here.
    42:55
    Yeah, there you go. That's a robot chicken episode. That'd be a great theme. They should do robot chicken pinball. Oh, my God. That would be good. That would definitely be a spooky pinball franchise. Spooky, come on. Get on it. That's where Marvin, Sin City. There we go. Sorry. Anyway. Sin City, that would be cool, too. It would be cool. That would be a cool pinball, especially with the monochrome kind of, yeah. Yeah, one of the all-faceted making black and white and red machines. Great. Make Sin City. That would be dope. Who's in on Jaws? Who would buy a Jaws?
    43:32
    So if I had played money right now, I'd buy a Pro. Yeah, that's the thing. I kind of wanted a premium, but then my distro was sold out of them. They're only making a limited run for the end of February, March, and then they're telling me I've got to wait until June, and I'm going to be out of interest by then.
    43:48
    Yeah. I know we're getting one locally. We're getting one over at Elbow Room. This thing's going to be everywhere. Yeah, it's going to be everywhere. But I know Ted, who's the owner of a new pinball bar in Reno, yeah, he opened it on January 1st. Sorry to go off topic, but he is getting a Jaws Pro, and we'll see how it is. We'll get to play it. I can't really say anything about rules and stuff until I play it. I've got to play this machine before I can make a judgment call on that. But as far as first impressions go, I wasn't blown away like I was for Godzilla, period. End of story. I mean, this is a game that they're going to be making for years. If you want one, you're going to be able to get one. I'm looking at Foo Fighter Premiums right now going for like $8,000.
    44:35
    Wow. Yeah. Yeah, there's 28 for sale right now on Pinside, just the premium for Foo Fighters. That's nuts.
    44:45
    Really? 8,000? Well, right, but there's a problem with Foo Fighters. Yeah. It's Foo Fighters. You can't listen to the Foo Fighters music that many times and just be like, I want to keep playing this game.
    45:00
    I'm not trying to be mean. Like, I think Foo Fighters is a great game. I think that the play field is fantastic and that for Jack Danger's first game, I think it's an unqualified success. But I think that as a theme, it's just not the kind of band that I think that a lot of folks can, you know, can kind of marry and have that in their house. 7,600. I've got ACDC and I've heard the songs in it a thousand times and I can still, you know, throw on a whole lot of Rosie and rock out. But, like, you can play any of the songs in Foo Fighters, and I'm just like, okay, it just doesn't matter. I'm just going to ignore it. I agree with you. It gets grating sometimes with Foo Fighters music. I reached a point I just wasn't really playing it much anymore after about 500, so I sold mine for $8 with a full powder coat.
    45:51
    With? I'm a giver. Nice. I love that you super tricked out your Venom and then sold it. That was so fun to do, though, man. It made this thing look awesome. I found a guy to make the LE armor, got it powder coated, put my own mods in there, put a spinner in there. It was great, man. That dug my venom. Did you ever hook the spinner to anything, or was it just spinning? No, no, it was just spinning. But the spinner was never laying. Yeah, there's a specific case. Yeah, I was waiting. Ah, set it up, knocked it out. I swear that game had a spinner at one point during development, and they took it out. But they left the hole in the plastic, and they left the mounting underneath where you can just put it right in there. So that's what I did. And so, yeah, I could have wired it to something, but, you know, a flasher or whatever. But it is fun to have their little kinetic energy. Well, who doesn't love spinners? Come on.
    46:42
    Love spinners. This one is called that spinner kit in Metallica. Yeah. I got that, I don't know, like right when I got the game, I bought that spinner kit and then I completely pussed out on installing it. Oh, so you still have it sitting around? Yeah, it's just in the coin box. Oh, man. Well, I think it was hooked on pinball, right? Because my hooked on pinball lightning bolts never worked, and the guy, like, replaced them four times. He was super agreeable, and finally he was just like, do you want something else instead? And I was just like, yeah, give me the spinner kit.
    47:18
    And then I got a pin bits lightning bolt kit from a buddy of mine. Cool. And with that, we're talking about new games. Let's talk about new old games.
    47:33
    Pedrotti is set to start making or remaking Bally Williams' classics. Yeah. I guess Chicago Gaming Company is still going to make games as well. And I guess you can also count Haggis. Haggis is still making theirs. They're still not done making their run of Fathoms, and they're supposed to be starting on Centaur soon. So we'll see how that goes.
    48:05
    Bless them. Yeah. Todd, I'm going to let you start off. Thoughts? I love this idea, you know, of making brand-new games that were based on ones that were released in antiquity and have been, you know, kicking around for 30 years in a dusty bowling alley or the back of someone's basement or something. So, you know, like who wouldn't want a Tales of the Arabian Nights, like fresh off the line, never been played, just ready to go, right? So, you know, I have some thoughts. I know Chicago Gaming has probably already made deals for some licenses that they're going to make, but not all of them. So Pedretti is going to be picking over what I guess they didn't want to go with. So, you know, I was looking at prices for these games, and it would make sense to go after ones that are in the highest demand, right? You know, you can go pick up a Fishtails right now for $4,500. I don't see anybody really wanting to shell out $11,000 for a brand new one, you know, Fishtails. But Tales of the Arabian Nights sitting there, you know, they're selling between $11,600 and $12,500 are the asking prices on Pinside right now. I'd say if I was going to pick one game that I would remake, that would probably be the one. And didn't they make a 2.0 kit as well for that game? They did. It was Marco. Yeah. It was Marco that showed it over at, was it TPF or was it Expo last year? I saw the TTF two years ago, I think. Two years ago, sorry. Two years ago. So, you know, back when they did the white paper. I don't think that went up in flames, though, right? Because that was being done by somebody related to, not Marco, but who's the German company? Mirko. Ah, Mirko. Sorry, I meant Mirko. Sorry.
    49:46
    Mirko. Yeah, you know, with the typical Mirko way. Yeah. It wasn't as good as anybody thought it was going to be.
    49:56
    And it was vaporware. I love it. If you have a problem with our play fields, talk to the guy at Soane T, Jersey Jack. Not us. If you have a problem with our play fields, fuck you. Oh, man. Yeah. Exactly. Have any more to say, Don? Well, when they did the 2.0 kit for Whirlwind, okay, I do know they did that one. I was thinking at the time it would be nice to have a brand-new game built with this in there. Now, that was before I really got into it and saw Stewie versus the Grannies and how just ridiculous it was.
    50:28
    But those are my thoughts. You know, that's a game that's going a little bit better than Fishtails right now. You get one for $3,900. There's another restored one for $9,000. So maybe there's some demand there. Of course, Adam's family probably has the largest demand of any of them. I don't know if anybody wants to pay $12,000 for another fun house. So I'm going to go with Toten if I was going to pick one to make. If I was a company, that's what I'd be trying to get. But CGC may have already kind of had that lined up. Who knows?
    50:57
    Toten is a really good one because the code is not real in-depth. It's pretty easy to get to the wizard mode. And if they had a 2.0 version to go with that, which that would really make that game awesome because it is fun to shoot. There's some great ramps to shoot. There's some neat mechs on it. and it's super fun to try to get the genie when it goes underneath. I always was amazed how that ball, like, disappeared. That was like a wow moment, you know, like they call those special moments, and that was one of those moments where I was like, where'd the ball go? It just, like, totally disappeared. That was really cool.
    51:38
    But, yeah, it's just a fun game. and having newer code, I'm sure that would sell out quickly. Yeah, that's a safe bet there. And then it'd make a lot of them. It's another one with the low production numbers.
    51:55
    Right. Yeah, there's not many out there in the wild. You don't see them unless you go to shows occasionally, but I haven't seen them at a local arcade for a while. I know I had them one time at Beach Hut Deli a long time ago, but that was the only one I've seen on location.
    52:12
    But that would be a good one. Well, nobody just thinks it's going to be them just making, like, full versions of their kid games, like they're going to make a Funhouse Rudy's Nightmare and, like, Whirlwind Total Chaos.
    52:25
    Like, it didn't read to me like they're going to get into the we're making high-end remake space. It just read to me like they're going to start making the games that they already make, except for you're going to get, like, full versions of them. Yeah. Well, here's the interesting thing. Will they be able to manufacture them faster than CGC? That's what I want to see, and that's why I'm excited about them, because they did get those kits out. When they announced, they were already shipping right away. So I'm hoping that they have a good manufacturing facility in Italy to be able to pull that off to do actual full games. But CGC, on the other hand, we're still waiting for Pulp Fiction. Hello? When is that coming? We're still waiting for our Cactus Canyons. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. Cactus Canyon, that's what I meant. My bad. They ended up having a lot of problems with that. And Cactus Canyon is a game that, like, I don't think anybody really asked for, but, you know, the price. I think that what CGC did really well, especially originally, was they brought you a competently built, in fact, you know, more than competently built version of a top-tier classic game for an extremely competitive price. Like when they had the classic versions out there for like $6,000, $6,500, you can get an attack from Mars, you can get a monster bash. It was crazy that they got rid of that. And then it was like, what, $8,000 for the next version up with the big screen and the better stuff. And, you know, I thought, you know, they weren't going to lose because it was like, well, this game is this amazing game and nobody has it. and then I think they ran into the fact that it's Cactus Canyon and it's really not that good of a game.
    54:10
    It's just it had a place in pinball history because it was the last standard Bally Williams game. The production run got cut off at like 750 or 800 units. So, you know, it had a certain cachet because of that. And so now, you know, you see those things going secondhand for Stern Pro prices. and I think that you're running low on the games that have that combination of rarity and staying power. I don't think Totem does. I think Totem's a beautiful game that's a snore fest to play. It just has some really neat mechanisms. The little cages that pop up in the outlanes I think are so cool. Awesome! Wouldn't that be a great start? So cool. Right? The genie thing, the magnet that pops out in the play field. Of course, it's got that big, stupid spinning lamp, too. But, like, what else is left? You know, the big thing that keeps going around is that they have the rights to Big Bang.
    55:09
    Yeah. Big Bang Bar. I would buy a remake of Big Bang Bar for $9,000. That game is fun. People say it's a terrible game. I've always enjoyed playing it. But, you know, some of that cachet might be the fact that I knew two dudes who owned it.
    55:27
    You know, they owned the Cunningham versions, not the original. And I know one guy who owns an original who brings it to shows, which is TJ. And, yeah, it's just a thing that you don't see it, right? Like, that's what makes it special. Once you have it, once you can have it, is it still special? Right. And I don't think that we need to have three companies doing these high-end remakes. But if Pedretti wants to make, you know, see if people want to buy, you know, an uglier, worse version of Whirlwind or an uglier, worse version of Funhaus, great.
    56:02
    You know? Yeah. Yeah, I've noticed Whirlwind prices have been going down a lot lately. I've seen a couple for sale back down to normal prices. Total chaos is so bad it tanked the market. Yeah. Yeah, total chaos was chaos. What's even worse is at Golden State, and from what you guys told me at last Pinnagogo,
    56:25
    they had that game set up and it wasn't even working right. Like the single up or drop target wasn't working. Well, that wasn't the kids' fault. That was just because it was installed in a crappy whirlwind. Right, but this is representing your product. You'd think they would say, hey, get that thing fixed, you know? It's a little shoppy-shoppy. Yeah.
    56:45
    Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Because that's the way their product's being represented, you know. It played the same over in Pentagon Gulf. That's what you're telling me, yeah. It had the same condition.
    57:03
    And they were both on level, too. It was the same exact thing. Yeah. It's like they just pretty much just, you know, teleported it from back in time, you know, and put it forward and just kept it the same condition. I don't know, I didn't think routed pinball machine experience. Yeah. That's what you get. That's what you get for $12,500.
    57:25
    Yeah. You know, there's been, Twizone's been batting around. I've seen a lot of people talking about Indiana Jones lately. Yeah. Because there's a ton of those for sale. I think some people might be moving those because they think they're going to be red-made. I think other people might be moving those because they've had them for a long time. They want to make room for something newer. And they know the market's at the peak because games are starting to drop. You know, even the top-tier games are starting to drop a little in price because people are starting to, you know, a lot of people are like, I can go get a Stern Pro and have just as much fun. You know, why would I pay $12,000 for the Williams-Indiana Jones? Great game, but, you know, is it a $12,000 worth of great game? You know what? It's kind of a snore fest, but it's such a good-looking and good-sounding snore fest that, like, you want to just let it go, you know?
    58:24
    She's not exciting in the sack, but you really like to be seen with her. Oh, Lord. She looks good next to my car. She's a hell of a cook.
    58:37
    Exactly, right? But yeah, Adams is the practical choice. Like the fact that nobody's remaking Adams Family. It's a fun game. It sells for a bajillion dollars, even though they made as many of them as they've made anything. It still earns money on location, so operators will want to buy it. That's why, you know, Medieval was such a good choice, because Medieval still would make money in arcades, and Attack from Mars and Monster Bash. Like, of course those were the first three, because they're games that everybody wanted, And people would still put money in. So true. And to this day, people always put money into those three games. All the time. And, you know, the other thing I was thinking is they've done two Lawlers now, right? They did Funhaus. Could they possibly do a remake of Earthshaker? Oh, man. Oh, you mean like the Total Chaos thing? Earthshaker Total Chaos. Or the Conversion Kid? I don't know. I mean, they've done two Lawlers now. So it's like, are they going to do the Trinity? You know? Do the trio of Earthshaker as the remake from Pedretti? Didn't they do No Good Gophers 2? Was that them? I don't know if that was Pedretti. It was horrific. It was terrible.
    59:55
    I was like, you can just light this on fire. Yeah, Black Rose was horrific too. Black Rose. Oh, my gosh. It's like a homebrew software. What does the dam say? How can we make the back glass of the Translight Art even worse? Oh, I know a guy.
    60:11
    The only trans light ever and make it worse. Oh, challenge accepted. I think if you were going to do another System 11 kit, you should do either F-14 Tomcat because they sold like 15,000 of those.
    60:31
    And, you know, I love F-14 Tomcat or Black Knight 2000. Okay. And that's just because I want somebody to make one called Black Knight 3000, since they didn't call Sword of Rage Black Knight 3000.
    60:45
    Hmm. Yeah. And I probably wouldn't buy it anyway because they wouldn't get the right voice and they'd probably ruin all the music. And that's all I really like about Black Knight 2000. Yeah, who could not love the music? You still have yours, Dan? Of course I still have mine. Who do you think you're talking to? Yeah, I thought you did.
    61:02
    Huh. It still doesn't work. I've got the new flippers to install in it. It's been broken for like a year because I'm lazy and stupid.
    61:10
    But I put a new Hot Wheel in my Transformers today, so yeah. Nice. Okay, I got the boards out of two of my games, and I was thinking, well, it's cold and nasty. I'll work on them this weekend. Okay, I didn't get shit done this weekend.
    61:28
    Like literally nothing, okay? I was just like, I'm just going to lay on the couch and watch reruns of Leather Kenny.
    61:38
    So what could Pedretti make that you would buy? Circus Voltaire. Voltaire is a pretty good pick. Yeah. Oh.
    61:48
    That would be a good one. That's another game they didn't make a lot of because initially it didn't sell well. Well, just what do you want? Like what would they make if you could get it for a reasonable price that you would put the money on? Well, they're doing Valiant Williams license, right? That's the deal? Okay. Yeah, that would be mine. Circus Voltaire. What would yours be, Dan? It'd be Addams, man. Addams. Like, Addams Family is that game that, like, I've owned a lot of games, and I've never had an Addams Family. I've borrowed it a couple times, and it's always just one of those things that's just like, is Addams Family worth $10,000?
    62:24
    No, but I still want one. Especially a brand-new one, like, untouched play field, shiny pop-upers, every mechanism hopefully working. Yeah, that'd be a good one. This might sound crazy, though. Like, I would rather have a game that came out of an arcade and has been shopped and worked. Like, I had a Medieval Madness remake, and it was really nice, and it was the only way I was ever going to have a Medieval Madness, and I enjoyed my time with it. But, like, I think I still would have rather picked up a well-played one because to me it has that arcade authenticity.
    63:06
    I don't know. Maybe I'm crazy, but, like, I would rather have a game that had spent its time in the trenches and it's been brought home to be fixed up and retired and pampered rather than a new one. Smells like Winston's stale TVR. You got it, right? Like, you know, it's not perfect. It's already got coil dust all over it. you know, there's already a ding in the cabinet. Maybe there's a lockdown bar hole. It's a pizza crust jammed in the coin door. But I don't want to pay. I wouldn't pay more for a crappy one than I would for a new one. That's why I got a Medieval Madness remake. Because it's like, well, I can pay $10,000 for a Medieval Madness or $8,000 for a remake.
    63:52
    I might be crazy, but I'm not stupid. Pedrotti's market, there's a market, make a brand new game to make it look like it's been in a bowling alley for 32 years. Complete with a pizza crust shoving it in the window. Pizza crust.
    64:08
    Exactly. It's like there's oily fingerprints on the glass that you can't wipe off no matter how hard you try.
    64:18
    Because that's authentic, man. Think about it. There's something to be said for that. Why do you still go to the movies? Okay. You can have a big screen at home. You can have surround sound. You can have the really comfy chairs that recline. Why do you go to the movies? For me, I mean, I enjoy seeing a movie. The smell of popcorn in the theater, just that does it for me. I want to talk during a movie. It's no fun if there's nobody there to be annoyed. Well, there you go. Yeah, I just smell the movie theater popcorn, man. Just that, that's the key. And the sticky floor. Got to have the sticky floor, right? Sticky floor, yeah. That's the way I figured you were going to, Mark.
    65:03
    I mean, you're the one that said shoot. You got to shoot it to shark in the mouth. So, you know. Spencer. What's that? So we have company, Spencer. Yeah, we have company tonight. We're getting really off topic. No, when Mark said that, I was just like, where the hell is he going with this?
    65:23
    We can't see him anywhere. I wish every company well that isn't connected to J-POP in any way. But, yeah, these guys, they're not off to a good start. They're really not. Aren't they the ones making the games for, not American, Pinball Brothers? Oh, are they? Are you ready?
    65:49
    Yeah. Yeah, they formed the Euro Pinball Corp, didn't they? Yeah, they're doing fine. Like, they're out there doing extra games. Oh, okay. Yeah, making their little products like they're doing it. Like, that company's legit. Okay. Like, we could legit as AP. Not that that's saying much. Okay. Well, yeah. All right. Well, you know what? And then, well, I got to say. We love AP around here, for the record. We have what? We love American Pinball around here. You know, we did a whole episode about Hot Wheels, okay? And that was a really popular episode. It was the most popular episode ever. Actually, I think the one with Fat Train is still number one. I don't know. It might be number two now. So I was going to give a shout-out to Fat Train because he did the colored – he did the dots, the colored DMD on Mary Shelley Strangstenstein. He did. Yep. He's in a couple of games. Yeah, Sopranos. Starship Troopers, yeah. Yep. So shout-out to Fat Train.
    66:50
    You like Sopranos? Starship Troopers is good, too. game. They're all good games. Sopranos is fun. Yeah, that's a good game. With a fuck mode, it's just, you gotta get behind it.
    67:06
    Well, you know, we got 2024. We're just off. We're still in January. We're off to a good start, and we'll see what Pedrotti comes up and shows us during the new year. Hopefully, we'll have better art than a couple of their games and better animation than No Good Gophers.
    67:26
    I don't think they did that. Okay, I don't think they didn't do that because I don't know who did it. Oh, they got a 2.0 because that's a game that could use a better rule set. I know there's a guy on Pinside working on that and has been for a while, and I played it and went, what in the name of God is this garbage? Yeah, it just looked like all placeholders like you'd see in an early animation movie or something. I don't know what the original problem with No Good Gophers is. I think No Good Gophers is great. Well, I think it's a good game, but, I mean, it could deal with some, you know, some improvements. It's a game about gophers and golf. How hard does it need to be? That's true. Without getting the license for Caddyshack, pretty much. Right? Yeah. They should just get the license for Caddyshack and do that. There you go. There's the remake. Infringement the game. There's the remake. Caddyshack instead of No Good Gophers. I mean, that would sell off. It comes as the hat and a bowl of soup.
    68:28
    All right, guys. Down to the best game of 2023 or your favorite game of 2023. Your personal game of the year. That's so tough. What are our options here, Spencer? Did you look at our list? Yeah. Okay. So our options is P3 Multimorphics Final Resistance. James Bond's 60th anniversary The pro premium LE other Bond Models came out actually At the very end of 2022 So Final Resistance Bond's 60th American Pinball's Galactic Tank Force Spooky Pinball's Scooby Doo From Stern Pinball we also had Foo Fighters and We had The Godfather From Jersey Jack Pinball and From Who were the guys that did Pony Factory? Pinball Adventures And you actually played that So we're going to let you go ahead You played two of them One in a show and one on location I live streamed it I think I was the only person that's done that so far You have to watch that live stream Because I'm right I got to ask a question Somebody actually paid money for this Yes, yeah, yeah, and it did relatively well on location. Yeah, Jeff from Mad Pinball had it out there. It was on location at 1UP Arcade, I think it is, near Akron. And, yeah, they kind of toured it around. It was one of the engraved editions. I will say the game, I don't hate the shots. Like, the person that designed the game actually has some decent feeling shots in there. The theme is not the most compelling thing, and the code is, you know, the code. The idea is you're supposed to make 50 of these punnies, right? There's an insert that lights up all the way to 50, and, like, I've never gotten more than two in a whole game.
    70:29
    It needs some balancing work there. But, you know, the game doesn't shoot terribly. So there's that. There's some innovations in there that are kind of fun. It looked like it might shoot okay and might be fun, kind of like Jetsons. I don't know if you ever played Jetsons. I actually kind of enjoy that. It's simple, but it's fun to play. Simple and fun, yeah. Every time I squashed a punny, it was rewarding. I like that. I like the ramps and things.
    70:53
    I think I was a little bit of a mixed bag. You know, but for, you know, the guy set out to make a pinball machine, and he did it, and he sold them, and if you bought one, you got one. Well, there you go. You got the game, which is more than you can say for some other companies out there.
    71:10
    And 20 years from now, I'll be a collector's item. Everybody will want one. It's probably going to be in some 2024. Venom came out as well. Don't forget Venom. Thank you. I'm looking. I'm like, there was another story. Yeah. Okay. I have still not. I've been like three times I made trips. Well, okay, I made one time I made a trip. Three times I planned to make a trip over to Denver area to play Venom. And it's just the last time I actually was in, I had to take my daughter's in-law. They still live in California. They were out here in October. I said, I'm going to try to play Venom on the way back after I dropped them off at the airport, and then it was getting late, and my wife had to work, and I had to pick up one of my sons from he had a thing going on. I'm like, I just can't. So I haven't got to play it yet, and I really want to. It's a fun game. It grew on me. Yeah. But not to keep up. Well, Venom's not terrible at all. I actually think that game's pretty freaking fun. If you like No Fear, you should like Venom. Yeah, I love No Fear.
    72:14
    Yeah, I agree. I think it's fun to shoot. Yeah, I grew to like it. I was frustrated at first. I like the code that they put in there, the fact that you can level up, so every game that you're playing, it means something.
    72:25
    I got frustrated the first playthrough when I got all the way to null. I was level 99 and there was nothing else you could do in the game at that point You either had to beat the boss or that was it You couldn go back and fight any of the other guys until you beat him and then the whole thing reset and you could start over So it was like I was getting really frustrated until I finally, like, learned the shots enough that I was able to beat him. And then the game, you know, you get to pick another character, and then it starts opening up after that. And every subsequent playthrough, I was able to get through it a little quicker, and then I kept unlocking things, and then it became really fun to come down and just throw like 10 games at it, you know, each night when I'd come downstairs. So there's something to say about Venom. I tricked it out. I went ahead and sold it. The idea for me with Venom was I was only going to have it for a short time, and then I was going to sell it on and try to get the next turn as it comes out. But it's a game, like, of everything I think I've sold. I wouldn't mind at some point maybe getting another one. I kind of miss it. When you unlocked everything, though, it kind of hits the wall, right? Well, no. Then you can go through and play with these new characters that you unlock. You know, the whole game is based on mini modes, right? make the three shots and then you get go into a battle with the new characters. You have to beat, you have to do six shots to open everything up. And each of them has a little characteristic. That's fun as well. You know, Hulk, it's a Hulk smash button that just, you know, gives like a boom button on, on Deadpool. It just unlocks everything or it's every shot. Yeah. So that's kind of fun. I beat the game with Wolverine. That was kind of cool. He's got his own call outs. I'd like to see the code mature more in that direction. But yeah, that was really fun, you know, to look at the game when you first see it, you're like, this could have been a P3 module. Everything is in the back third of the play field, you know, and that's kind of a fair statement to make. But the gameplay was engaging. It plays more like an arcade type game than like an adventure type game, you know, whereas, you know, Foo Fighters, you're trying to get through all the cities and everything. Venom, you're just like, you know, playing for score, playing for battles, and that's kind of it. Well, I wonder, you know, is Venom the beginning of the next phase in Pinball? Oh, I hope so. Because with some of the rumor titles that are coming up, they definitely don't feel like it's going to be like, okay, I'm going to sit down and play three balls and run up the highest score. Can you imagine this code on like a Pokemon where you're like, you know, capturing all these critters and leveling them up and they all saved your profile? You know, the thing I like about... I played a lot of Venom and now when I go on location and scan in, all my game information's right there. It's like I'm playing in my basement again. You know, I'm picking up right where I left off. So... That is cool. So to do that with like a Pokemon of like 150 little characters to collect and maybe trade with other insider connected people. Or you could battle somebody else and it causes you to level up and unlock other things. Like, the door's kicked open to, like, this interactive code. Yeah. Or even on, like, a Foo Fighters where you don't have to do all, you wouldn't have to do all the cities in, like, one fell swoop. I think that would be fun. For someone like Foo Fighters. Maybe the modes would be a little bit longer and a little bit more interactive. Like every, you know, like a role-playing pinball. Yeah. Like a role-playing pinball adventure. Yeah, like I'm down for that. I had my Foo Fighters here before I sold it. When they did do the code update with the final wizard mode, you know, I got out the rubber band. Only without the Foo Fighters music. Yeah, I shoved the sock in the drain just so I could play through and get to the end. And, you know, that's how I was able to see the rest of the game, you know, as an average pinball player. So to have the option of playing in a mode where it could save my progress, you know, maybe not save your score, but, you know, save the cities you've unlocked so you can gradually build up to getting to that wizard mode and seeing it, And, you know, I think that's, you know, compelling. So is your game of the year Venom, or did we just completely and totally just derail? Well, if I look at the games that released this year that I've owned, Foo Fighters Venom and Scooby-Doo from Spooky, Scooby-Doo is the only one that I still have and I'm not looking to sell. So that might be my pick of the year. I was just playing Scooby-Doo last night, and that game is awesome. And the code is still being developed, and will so for years to come. And, yeah, the topper just released for it. So, yeah, I think that the art, the sounds, when you get the Scooby-Doo multi-ball and it starts playing the theme song, that's fun, man. That's fun. That's a fun game. I think if there's one thing that, like, Scooby-Doo, and I know they did it as authentic as they could do it, I just don't think that the voice of Scooby, and I know it's Welker and that he's a legend, I just don't think that the Scooby voice is great. Yeah, that's the only drop. When I play Scooby-Doo, I play Scooby-Doo. The Shaggy voice is amazing. The Fred voice is amazing. I don't usually play with the girls either, but I play as Scooby-Doo, and I'm just like, oh, that is not a good Scooby-Doo impersonation. And it's not even an impersonation. It's a real voice. It's not a real, real voice. Yeah, Scooby shouldn't be telling me to shoot the lit shots. That's a little, you know, I don't expect that from a dog.
    77:15
    I want to hear what you're doing. That's about it. I don't need you. You're a multiplier. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
    77:24
    But yeah, that is a fantastic game. Yeah, Spooky's really been up in their game in the last few titles. For sure, especially their two new ones. Yeah, if we're talking about Spooky right now, I am super psyched about Looney Tunes. I watched the gameplay of that with Bug. I was like, now this is how you have fun with a pinball game. Oh, it looks so good. I can't wait to play it. I mean, yeah, I mean, I've played it. Yeah, they absolutely nailed it. I know you've played it, John. You've played it.
    78:00
    I'm dying to play it. I'm dying for other people to play it. Would you go to the back? Yeah, like 48 hours after they unveiled it, they texted me, and they're like, hey, can you come down? I'm like, yeah, I'll be there in three hours. And I went down there, and they had both games set up. I got to play both of them. It was great. Oh, nice. Craziness. That's great. It shoots so well. Like, many of the shots, when you get them, they come right back to a flipper somewhere. And so you can just kind of combo ramps back and forth. It's like the first spooky that's flowing like that. And then that's kind of what they set out to do with this layout. And I can't wait for other people to play it, too, just to validate my own feelings about it and make sure I'm not just nuts. Because, yeah, I'm digging both those games. The assets are awesome on it. Oh, my gosh. They're so cool. how, like, I love the duck season and rabbit season, how you have to hit the ramps to change it every time. It's so well done. I mean, that's a lot of work to do that with that code to get all those clips and everything. But, man, they nailed it. And here's my question. Was the voiceover redone for the classic cartoons, or did they just use Mel Blanc? They had to redo them.
    79:09
    Okay. It's a little, you know, it's not the same Mel Blanc, but it works. But yeah, the guy who does the Looney Tunes voices now is really good. Eric is great. Eric Bauza is awesome. Yeah, he is really good at all those Looney Tunes characters. However, is there Yosemite Sam in it? Because I didn't see him in there. I haven't seen him. Darn, I wonder why they left him out. I don't think they did. I think he's in there somewhere. Do you think? I hope so. He's a huge part of the Looney Tunes.
    79:43
    Yeah. Yeah, but he's not like Homer Fodbeg. No. The characters that don't appear don't appear because the licensor did not want them to appear. It wasn't because of the side of anything, you know. Speedy Gonzales is not present. Pepe is not present.
    80:02
    I saw his name on the scoreboard, though. Because, well, it's really funny you bring up Pepe Le Pew because apparently now he's been canceled because he's a lech. Okay. Fair. But, well, this is funny. Some years ago. He's a stalker. Yeah, the mid-90s Cartoon Network canceled Spini Gonzalez. They quit, you know, showing his cartoons, which is funny because it's the exact same time the number one cartoon on Mexico's Cartoon Network was Spini Gonzalez. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so. I'm still. Oscar Rodriguez.
    80:41
    Yeah, right. Exactly. in all of Mexico. The community will come in and get your characters in there. So get your cake toppers. We're putting them in. Did you talk to Spooky about getting Taz to spin faster? Have they thought about it? They're thinking about it. Yeah.
    81:02
    He's got to spin faster because that would just make me just smile like crazy. If it doesn't have, like, a broken finger warning like Doctor Who, it's not.
    81:14
    Yeah. I don't know if it's a matter of changing the line voltage to that motor or changing out the motor or changing a gear ratio. A gear ratio would do it. That's all I'd have to do. Yeah, there's going to be some modder who makes that happen, like, immediately. There's a timeline where it's quite fast. I guess you actually see the task going so fast it comes off a little and then just wraps up drills right to the glass. Now that's a lot.
    81:46
    It's dangerous, but it's not fun. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. We had that talk, too. Yes, it's only, you know, we need a pinball machine with clackers and lawn darts in it.
    82:00
    Clackers and lawn darts. Don, what do you think for the game of the year? Let me just go Scooby-Doo because objectively, that's the one that I bought that came out this year that I have not sold. I sold Venom. I sold Foo Fighters, and I feel okay about it, but I'm not selling Scooby. Right on.
    82:19
    Dan, how about you? Game of the year. Oh, you know what mine is. Galactic Tank Force. GTF. Honestly, I think that Galactic Tank Force is a game that just got buried by, you know, a certain pinball personality and everybody just crapped on it. And I really was not about it at all until I got to play it. And then I was like, oh, my gosh, this game is really good and really good looking. And it does have some of the most annoying music since Foo Fighters. But, like, it's just got a lot of personality, and I really hope that American Pinball lasts long enough to really polish up the code on it because it is a really super, super cool game. And you could tell that everybody who worked on it really poured their heart and soul into it. And, you know, maybe it was the last gasp. I hope not. You know, I hope that American Pinball, you know, obviously they're not making their money on pinball, so hopefully whoever's paying their bills doesn't, you know, turn off the spigot, you know, keeps giving them money so they can keep working on games. But I think that that game is just fantastic.
    83:37
    And besides that, I would say my runner-up would be Scooby-Doo. That was another game that, like, when it came out and I played it at the show, the weird, like, three-second snippet of music and just really threadbare rules and ridiculously, you know, lackadaisical gameplay just made me go like, oh, well, this is garbage. Good job, Spooky. But since I've played it recently, they've done a ton of work on the code, and it's got just a lot of fun stuff to do, you know, way better music, a lot of personality, really cool light show, just a really solid presentation. And if you're a fan of Scooby-Doo, like, I can't think of anything in that game that you would want that you're not getting. There's, like, Shaggy's character mode where you have to balance the sandwich by using the flippers while you're trying to hit the – there's just a lot of cool stuff. Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah. Or Fineville with glasses. I mean, like I said, they put something in for every – like, whoever worked on that game was obviously a Scooby-Doo fan.
    84:42
    Absolutely. Because you could tell that they – like, they put the thought and they put the care into it. It wasn't just like, okay, well, it's got to play, and you've got to be able to get points, and you can stack some multipliers, and you can get three different multiballs. You know, it doesn't feel like a stern. You know, it's like it has to work, it has to do these things, and, you know, it has to make money. Like, you can tell that it was made for fans, which is what I really love about the way Spooky makes games. The restraint that they exercise to keep Scrappy-Doo out of there also. Well, he's not part of the series that they adapted, though. So we were safe from Scrappy-Doo. Yeah, he was 80s, right? Yeah, he doesn't come around until like the late 70s. This is the late 60s version. In fact, we were sitting around the other night over at my friend Jason's house. Him and his wife, Denae, do like a monthly get-together, and they have a Scooby-Doo, a spooky Scooby-Doo fully modded out. They've got the topper on order, the whole works. And we were talking about like how many different Scooby-Doo series there actually were and how short they lasted. Like, no Scooby-Doo series up until, like, the last few years really lasted more than a couple years. It was like Scooby-Doo Where Are You was only a couple years, and the new Scooby-Doo show was a couple years, and, like, the new Scooby-Doo movies was a couple years, and then, you know, it just, but it was always there. Every generation had a version of Scooby-Doo. And I was never a big Scooby-Doo kid. I would really like to see them do a mode where you have the Harlem Globetrotters and the Addams Family help you out. At least Sandy Duncan. You know, solving the mystery. Sandy Duncan. Yeah, she was in one of the episodes. Apparently you cannot get the Addams Family episode on DVD. Really?
    86:29
    I didn't know that. It's like, yeah. I mean, it's not lost media because it's out there. Yeah, I mean, we're seeing it as a kid, you know. There's rights issues where it's like, yeah, they can't license. All licensing. Okay. Mm-hmm. Scooby-Doo, Scooby-Doo, Be Over My Runner-Up, but Galactic Tank Force is definitely my game of the year. And I kind of bumbled into mine, and I'm really glad that I did. Right on. Well, I have to say what you're saying, Dan. That game is a lot of fun to shoot. I wish there were more on location, and I wish it didn't have the negativity of the issues that it's had. I know you ran into a couple of things here and there, but you got them all worked out. Mostly my issues were just me being stupid. Right. But there's been issues with quality control that were not present with Hot Wheels. Hot Wheels was, like, really solidly built, but there's been issues with Tank Force, and I'm glad that you have a positive experience with it. Hot Wheels is an awesome game. It is, yeah. And it's one of those games that, like, I think that when people played Hot Wheels, like, they sort of took American more seriously. But I think the problem was they followed it up with Valhalla. And while Valhalla is a cool game, it's not a bad game at all, but it doesn't feel as professional as it feels like what it is, which was a garage project. You know, like, you know, the software is more still images, and, you know, it's got a good play feel. It's got a cool theme. It's got guys with names like, you know, Jorgenminder and stuff like that. You know, I think it needed, like, some cool Swedish death metal, Like, that would have been amazing. Oh, that's true. Yeah, the music would have been better. It was a downturn after the high point of Hot Wheels, which was a great license and a really solid game. And so I think that they needed to prove with Galactic Tank Force that they could do it. And I think the problem was they had a Nordman design, they had Franchiart. I don't know what deaf moron they got to do the gameplay music, but all the other sound effects and the acting and everything's really cool, and you can see what they were going for, and just people didn't get it. People didn't understand, I think, what they were trying to do and the weird campy, like, 50s-ness of it. And, like, you know, I think that it was, you know, everyone's like, well, it's a meme game. And I said, yeah, but I think it's supposed to be. Like, I think that they wanted it to be silly and they wanted it. I think that Dennis Norman's got a weird sense of humor. You know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of, like, watching a Sid-Marty Croft show. Okay, yeah. That's what it reminded me of. I always get, like, a really heavy Fallout vibe from it. Yeah, yeah. It's cheesy sci-fi. It's cheesy B-movie sci-fi. Yeah. Which is a good start. It's good. I like the game. I agree with you, Dan. I agree with you. And it shoots great. It's a fun game. You know, they just needed to, I think that they needed to do something that was going to be more accepted by the masses. It's like they needed to do another Hot Wheels, and then they needed to do, like, a Galactic Tank Force. Like, it was not the right project to do when they did it. And I think that they kind of bet the farm on it. Mm-hmm. Yep. Whoops.
    89:44
    So, Mark, what's your game of the year, buddy? So, my game of the year, and I'm happy to agree with Don, that I really think Scooby-Doo should be game of the year, just because when you see the artwork in person, it's the most gorgeous play field art I've ever seen on a pinball machine. And the way that it shoots, it's very original. It's not your typical fan layout. It's interesting because you don't see the ball. And like I said, it's a mystery. And then you don't know where it's coming out of. But the modes are just so original. I mean, I love it how you have to shoot the shots in a certain order or you can't hit the shot twice or you have to avoid different shots. The way they did the code, especially, like you said, with the stacking the sandwich and keeping it from toppling over and adding the ingredients as you go, I mean, that's so cool.
    90:40
    The use of assets and the way that they integrated the animation and everything is seamless. They did a really good job with the code on that. And it is just a fun game, like you said, when you start the multiball. you really feel like you're part of that Scooby-Doo world. And I just love it. I played it over another Jason. I played it over at Jason's house last night, and I couldn't get off that game.
    91:09
    It's just fun. It's a fun game. And the upper play field is utilized really well. The interesting way they designed that with the bookcase, where it's still a flipper but it was covered with that plastic, really adds a different element to it when you shoot it because you have to, like, sling it over to make the other shots. It's so cool. Yeah, it's really original, and I love what they did with it. The artwork on the side, I mean, if you see a butter cabinet in person, oh, my gosh, it's breathtaking to see it. It's beautiful with the direct print.
    91:45
    I think the proper way to make the art for Scooby-Doo is so good. It's gorgeous. It's just, yeah, it's a beautiful game, And even the top that comes with it is cool. I mean, of course, the one that they have that you have purchased separately is even awesome or more awesome. But that's definitely my game of the year. Just because of its originality, the use of its theme, it's a world under glass. They have real sculpts underneath it. And it's just fun. It's fun trying to unlock the mysteries and then, you know, get the clues. And then you start the mode. And it just, you feel like you're on an adventure. You feel you're part of the Scooby gang. It's great. I definitely would say that that's the game of the year for me. You know, one of my favorite touches about that game, I love the fact that it's five players. Yeah. So you can have every member of the crew. Yeah, that's cool. But that's what I like. Spooky does that. They think out of the box. They don't do their thing. They definitely love that theme, and they did cool things that go outside of the formula to appeal to people who love the product. Right, exactly. You know, it's hard to really pick the game of the year. I mean, that's the one that I picked. But if I looked at, like, the best categories, I would say, like, the most gorgeous game in person is Godfather. I mean, that's a gorgeous game when you see it, especially the collector's edition. The most fun to shoot is Foo Fighters, so that would be my runner-up, just because it's great, but the music, I'm not a fan of Foo Fighters. It's just that music doesn't get to me. If it was another band, it would be a different story, but it's just every song sounds the same from them. So I don't feel that variety as I do. And the rules are okay, but it's not like I'm excited to get to a certain mode. It's like kind of the same thing. but the way it shoots makes it really an awesome game to play, and it is a floor monster, and I love that how you can shoot with the upper loop, or it goes up the ramp and around, and it does have some cool max. Dead post. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, the dead post is genius. Genius. And it's so fun. Yeah, I mean, a lot of good games, but all in their own category. But overall picture, Scooby-Doo. Sorry, John, too. That did release this year.
    94:16
    Yeah, I was thinking that. Oh, okay, but did it ship? I haven't played it, though. So you haven't played it, John. So I can't see it. Yeah, have you played it, John? A couple times, yeah. Okay, so John's played it. Okay. What are your thoughts? It was fun, man. The first time I played it at Expo, I was like, I wanted to not like it just because I didn't want another game I had to get. But dang it. it's fun man that honky cat I love it I don't know that it's got the depth of code though that would make it you know sustain at home but it is fun playing an Elton John concert and it shoots incredibly well but you know I think once you get the multiballs a couple times I'm not sure that there's much else left in it or maybe we're just not good enough to get that far but I'll wait and see how that kind of evolves I do like it more than Godfather for sure. How does it look in person? I mean, just it's pretty, man. They just got rid of vinyl graphics and they went right for Radcals on the side of both editions. There's like six pounds of glitter in the CE.
    95:22
    See, but that works perfect for Elton John because he's always had that style. Flamboyant and very, very colorful. Yeah, always. Yeah. If you thought Guns N' Roses was going to give you a seizure Hold my beer Yeah Does this outdo Guns N' Roses Don? No Guns N' Roses Has that amazing light show It's good But yeah it's not quite Guns N' Roses level Where like every song Was just perfectly Yeah Guns N' Roses Absolutely I almost want to buy a second one just to have an extra I know you love your Guns N' Roses that is an awesome game man you just have to kind of you have to get into the vibe of it and I mean I could imagine if you're not a Guns N' Roses fan I could get not loving it but like if you're a Guns N' Roses fan and you just can get your head around how the risk versus reward of that game works there's nothing cooler than catching in a giant song jackpot and have never done it that's fire the first time you get like 20 or 30 or 40 million or you're like a hunk of kids and you're watching me and they'll get like hundreds of millions of points on one song and that last 15 seconds of the song pops up and it's like you have to make that center shot. You're just like, ah!
    96:43
    And you never can make it. I never can make it. It's like I hit it every time and then all of a sudden when it gets to that last 15, I can't for the life of me try to get it into the scoop. I can't do it. It's so frustrating. It's like those six X play field I just automatically drain. Yeah. As soon as you see a plos jackpot, you're just like, ah!
    97:02
    Yeah. Oh, gosh. All great games. All of them. All right, Spencer. Let's work. Spencer, what is it? Okay, so, you know, well, I haven't played Venom yet. I have not played Punny Factory. Now I'm excited to play because, you know, Don made it sound like it's not too bad. Love it. Elton John, we talked about this before I haven't played either but I'm really excited because I'm a huge Elton John fan and I remember being a little kid in the 70s and being mesmerized when I'd see him on TV you know, because I mean he was just like, to me he was always a more modern take on like Jerry Lee Lewis, man, there were no rules like I'm going to do whatever I want and we're going to rock this place and I've always appreciated that about him so but I haven't got to play that yet I really love Galactic Tank Force. I know, Mark, at Golden State, you and I played for the first time together this last May. And I think I played some with Dan, too. And we really had a fun time playing. I really liked everything about it. You know what a junkie I am for just quirky parody and comedy, sci-fi, B-movie stuff. And so I really liked everything about it. I liked the shots. I liked the art. I liked the game. I don't get to hate. I really love Foo Fighters. Okay. By the time Foo Fighters came along musically, I was married and had kids and had a real day job and responsibilities. And, you know, so I got out of the loop. I mean, you want to go back to my day, you go back to Elton John and Dan Halen and Blue Oyster Colt and stuff like that.
    98:50
    ACDC, more resonate with me. Kiss, Metallica, as far as musically. I like the music long enough, but when I started playing the game, I'd hear a song and go, that's Foo Fighters? I didn't know that was them. I like this song. So the music doesn't bother me. It might after six months of ownership. I don't know. But I love the shots. I love the little touches, especially like on the premium LE version with the dead post. The upper play field's fun.
    99:18
    I just love the way it shoots. So I'm going to give game of the year To Foo Fighters Just because I love playing it Because I love the way it shoots And my runner up would be Galactic Tank Force Very close, almost high So Bond 60th Is fun to shoot but It's a great game But it's not $10,000, $12,000 I love the way Beatles shoots I love the Beatles game I love the theme, I love the music And now they're 6K on the used market And I'm like okay Now we're talking But yeah For what I played I'm going to give my win To Foo Fighters Scooby Doo I really like too But I only got like 3 or 4 games on it And I haven't been able to play it since then So I just don't have enough time on it But another thing I'll point out before I let this topic die On Scooby Doo when you are locking the balls for a player, the Mr. Machine headlights light the color of that character. Oh, I don't know. Did you guys notice that? No. Yeah. Did you notice that, Don? No, I haven't. That's awesome. Well, that's what I'd heard. Okay, I don't remember seeing it, but that's what I heard. Like, you know, like the red fur or whatever, the orange fur of Belma and, you know, like, what is it? Is Daphne green? No, Fred's green, right?
    100:50
    Fred's blue. Fred's magenta. Okay. So, from what I heard. Shaggy would be green. Shaggy's green. Huh? Yeah, Shaggy's green. Okay. You didn't get it? Yeah.
    101:07
    Well, they still need to get the Harlem Globetrotters to come on the game with them, darn it. See, that was more pop culture references From when I was a little kid and would watch those shows You know, and then The Harlem Globetrotters had their own pinball machine Like, this is awesome Because I watched the Harlem Globetrotters every Saturday morning And then they got their own pinball machine And then, you know To have them get into Scooby-Doo King Would just be great So, I don't know who'd do the voices Because most of them have passed on now Of that era of those That era of Globetrotters But anyway, but yeah, so check on that damn thing. Make sure I'm not just having a weird flashback or something. But I'm pretty sure I read or heard somewhere that the Mystery Machine does that. But it's those little touches of spooky ads that you really appreciate.
    101:59
    Yeah, check that out. Nice. Spencer doesn't have a lot of exhaust. I do. I get, well, you know, you never let me go. You get me going. I've been good tonight for the most part. Well, I can't say that you're exposed to a lot of hazardous chemicals anymore because you're not an exterminator. You've got a great story about that, don't you?
    102:21
    I'm a professional. You're a dumbass. Go ahead and tell the whole story, Dan. So I have Spencer come out to my house. I had wasp nest in the mirror of my truck. And so Spencer comes out. And, you know, Spencer's the kind of friend who he doesn't just come out and help you. He gives you the ability to help yourself. So he's like, here, I'm going to leave you with this can of, you know, super killer bug killer, which I mean, I still have. And he's like, when you use this, you want to wear your mask and you want to wear your gloves and you want to wear your goggles. Meanwhile, he's standing, smoking a cigarette about two feet away from the mirror, maybe left, just blasting it with this poison. And I'm like, didn't you just say mask and gloves and goggles? He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, for you. I'm a professional. You're a dumbass.
    103:21
    That was awesome. In fairness, I haven't had a cigarette in three years now. January. I don't think that was the point of the story. No, but I just wanted to know. I think your smoking is like the ultimate. Yeah, I was wearing shorts too, wasn't I? Like a t-shirt. No, I think you were dressed because you came in your truck. So you were wearing your shirt. I was wearing my pants. But, yeah, you weren't wearing any PDA.
    103:45
    PPA. PPA, whatever. P, P, P, P, P, P. Personal protective equipment. So yeah, anyways So games of the year Awesome All good games I mean, Godfather, I really enjoyed it I only played like 3 or 4 games on that But I really enjoyed it, you know I really enjoyed Final Resistance I'd love to get more time on that Yeah, I'd like more time on that one too Yeah, I mean, not a bad game in the bunch And, of course, I haven't played Puny Factory, but you know what, man Oh, man.
    104:24
    If I played Punny Factory, I bet that that would be not the game of the year. It might even be the lame of the year. It might be the lame of the year. That was a beautiful statement. You know what? I felt good about it. I couldn't pass on that opportunity. Sorry for grabbing the wheel. No. Everybody made a statement.
    104:46
    We got more responses about this last time that we did it, this time last year. So now we're going to talk about the lame of the year, not necessarily the game, but, like, just the boneheadedest move or the stupidest thing or just our least favorite thing to happen in the last year of pinball. Oh, yeah.
    105:08
    Who's going to start us off? Do you want to start us off, Don? Yes. I bet you got a good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go over to Galactic Tank Force for a moment. Yeah, the game's got everything you would want, and it plays reasonably well. The lame part, though, was the marketing decision to do or to price the signature edition at what they priced it at. And when they recorded this awesome, good production value trailer for everything that you got, amongst the banners and the poster that was suitable for framing, they also offered a refillable pint glass that you got for your $16,000 autographed edition. And that floored me when I heard that. Like, it's like they hired a marketing department or something, and they're like, we got to do something to try to sell this. Let's just say that the pint glass that comes with it is refillable. Yeah, that'll do it. That'll cinch it right there. You'll feel good about paying double the price for this game. Because we can make refillable pint glass. Isn't that right, little Timmy? Like, oh, my God. I was like, is this? Dude, that commercial is so good. How did none of you people understand how brilliant that commercial is? I loved it. but like it is intentionally like that it's awesome it would be really great if you took that to their like their factory and they have a can I get a refill and they're just like as much as you want you paid 40 bucks for the glass and say to Don you bastard because my lame of the year is definitely the way that they marketed Galactic Tank Force.
    106:53
    Right, man? Did you see? I mean, I'm sure you guys all saw that initial stream. Oh, yeah. It was pinball infamy. Like, when I watched that stream, and remember, I wasn't in on Galactic Tank Force. Like, I didn't decide to get one until I played it. I watched that stream and I'm like, dude, this game sucks.
    107:19
    Like, they're going to sell like 20 of these. They have. It was so bad. And for an original theme like this, you've got to come out heavy with like, here's the story. Here's what's going on. Here's who you are. Here's what you're trying to do. And, like, it wasn't until months later when Franchi appeared on the Four Men's Pinball podcast with Orbital Albert that he finally explained, like, what the story of the damn game was. Like, am I the tank force? Am I fighting the tank force? Who are these cows? Why do I care about Annoya? Like, how can Annoya have, like, another thing going on, and it's not explained at all? Like, what do you mean it cannot be broken?
    108:03
    Like, it just has to work. it didn't even work. It's like I could live with this, like, hey, you're going to go on this adventure and you've got to piece it together and there's all these characters. Great, that's fine. But when they did that stream, the game was broken.
    108:21
    You guys really could have waited two more months. Oh, my gosh. The irony is, like, I do think that, like, eventually they got a marketing message together. And, again, that commercial for the Signature Edition was kind of how they should have started. Maybe not with the Signature Edition but with the campy 50s like sci dopey commercial you know sort of thing was great But yeah they just did such a piss job convincing people that they wanted that game I think that they counted on something else to sell it You know, like just maybe the Nordman involvement they thought was going to be enough, maybe the Franchiard, but man, it was just preposterous. When you fold the back box down, which is something you never do, it looks like a tank. Isn't that fun? Oh, my goodness. Well, it's not going to pop out on this stream.
    109:28
    You know what it reminds me of is actually watching Amazon Women on the Moon. Because you're like, you know, like the pieces out of the movie, like, what the hell is happening? Why? What? There's a monkey. It's like, it was a monkey. And then there's a girl. I don't know. Yeah. But, yeah, no, it's, yeah. Yeah, because, you know, this is parody, right? This is humor because they can't be serious. Are they serious? I don't know.
    109:58
    But you can also get the lunchbox with a real thermos. Oh, yeah. Well, if you get the $16,000 one comes with a thermos.
    110:07
    You know, for all of that stuff to go on clearance, I'm not at all. Let's see if you can refill your pint glass. Gosh. Refillable pint glass. think of the value. That's a good deal. Infinite refills. You can put as much stuff as you want in this pipeline. Infinite value there, yeah.
    110:26
    That's great, man. You can tell Franchi loved doing that art. Nobody's dogging on this game because of the art. The art's all... Everything that they make looks great. The posters look great. The banners look great. but that first stream was a travesty it was the stuff that goes down in pinball infamy it's the stream that killed American Devil now you're talking about gameplay stream? was it dead flip? it wasn't dead flip they kept taking the glass off dude it was like oh yeah that's right It was like it was how Eddie did the stream, right? The real romantic cat of Eddie doesn't put the best. The first gameplay doesn't have to be a live streaming event. It can be prerecorded and here's the game, here's the modes, let's make sure it looks good for the first initial impression, right? You know, I think it should be like a stream, right? But I think that what you do is you don't do the stream when the game is broken. And I think that, like, if you're smart, you call Greg and you call Zach and you have them do your trailer. Oh, for sure. Or your little attract video, because those guys have got it down to a science. Yeah, they do. Like, if it wasn't 2024, if it wasn't already 2024, it would almost be Keith Elwin's 10-minute, you know, Jaws' Super Boring commercial. But, yeah, the Galactic Tank Force initial stream is the most awesome thing that ever happened. Was it last year that the Twippies were really bad?
    112:08
    That was the year before, right, with Emoto and Jack? Oh, that was terrible. That was so hard to watch.
    112:19
    Yeah. Oh, my gosh, that was so bad. I was going to bring that up. Like, well, you know, Galactic Tank Force was bad, you know, their video, But it wasn't Twippy bad. No, it was Twippy bad. Okay. Okay, I have to watch it now just to get entertained. Did you watch the TV show or the – Oh, no, the Gladiator 4 stream. I want to watch it now. You guys were about literally like a minute and a half of the Twippy that year, and I just turned it off. And I've not watched since, of course. It is a travesty. Oh, that was so bad. talking the worst part was having a moto talk over every single video clip i was like no you don't do that you let the video play don't talk over it and she just kept making comments over and over again on it i was like oh that doesn't sound good and then the mic that mic who was i can't remember who was presenting but it was like the the microphone was like peaking like beyond zero db and it was just like distorting and it's, oh, it sounded so bad. It was just, oh, it was a must. It was like our show before you came on. Yeah.
    113:27
    Yeah. You're in the wrong one. Oh, God. So I'm the textbook of, hey, you can do a podcast. No, virtually not a fucking thing about any of this. Yeah. It's not good, but it's great. Well, hopefully, well, now they won't have it, right? So now we don't have to go through it? No, they're not doing the Twippies, but they're not doing it live, right?
    113:51
    I mean, they're not doing it in person. Is that right? I don't know. Or they're not doing Twippies at all. No, they're doing the Twippies, right? But they did.
    114:04
    Why can't I word? They're not doing it the way they were doing it. Okay. Do you mean it's going to be good now? No, I mean like the whole thing with the Twippies. Oh. This is actually, you guys, since you brought it up. So they were doing it, and then they weren't doing it, because it was going to be Macho Pinball, and somebody else was going to host. Yeah, since you brought it up, that's actually my lane of the year, the whole Twippy thing. Okay, there you go. There's our segue. Twippy's a mock-off.
    114:34
    I'm happy for, you know, anybody that's won. Like when Joe won, I was so happy for him. Joe's a good dude. His Grogu mod is amazing. I don't begrudge anybody winning. I think it's great.
    114:49
    I'm of a different cast because of the way I look at pinball because I'm an old dude, where we would go play as kids at the bowling alley, at the local, Quik-E-Mart, at the arcade. And we didn't know who the designer was or the artist or anything like that. We just knew that's a ballet game, that's a gauntlet game, that's a xenon, that's an evil-cunevil, whatever. We just played because we loved playing. And I want more people to have that mindset. that, you know, being recognized, the awards, you know, are all great, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I think I don't want people to lose sight and just go, well, you know, I didn't get a Twippy. I didn't get recognized. You put out content, you built an awesome game. You put out an awesome podcast. You know, we got Don here, guest host, who podcasts by himself, and I've done a couple episodes by myself. And to get up in a mic and do a podcast by yourself is no easy feat. And, Don, I got to tell you, brother, you do it really, really well.
    115:49
    Absolutely. Yes, I really enjoy listening to it, and you do really well. And so that's just where I'm going. It's like I'm out of here. I'm bored over here. Thanks so much, guys.
    116:03
    No, it's really like I listened to your last episode, and then, like I said, I almost wrecked my truck because I'm laughing so hard when you did the paperwood. The paperwork prototype.
    116:16
    Yeah, no, but, you know, and that's the thing. You're the hottest rookie in pinball, right? You've been doing this for less than a year? Yeah. Started January last year. Yeah. Wow. You're just getting out of your rookie year. We're catching you at the end of it.
    116:29
    You know, and that's the thing is, you know, you do it because you love pinball. You know, if you make a buck or two, awesome. I'm not making any money doing this, and I don't care if I do. I do it because I love pinball, and I love talking with the guys, and I love it when people come to me and go, hey, listen to your show. It's not that bad. No, it really made me laugh. I had a good time. I felt like I was part of the group and we were sitting around the table. And that's what I've always wanted it to be is just we're having fun. I don't do pinball for a living because if I did, I got a job I like well enough and I'm pretty decent at it. This is what I enjoy. This is my hobby. This is my fun time. And I don't want anybody to ever get so sidetracked with, you know, making money or fame or whatever. I mean, obviously, like, you know, the guys that make the games, obviously I want them to make money so they can keep making games. And the guys that sell games, I want them to keep making money so they can keep selling games. But beyond that, for the rest of us, I just want people to remember the simple fun of, you know, I love the stories. like, which I'll ask you in a minute. You know, how did you first discover pinball? Okay, I'll ask you now. How did you first discover pinball? Oh, man, been playing pinball forever. I think, you know, being a youngster and at a restaurant or some eating place with my dad. And they had a fireball there, right? And he's like, hey, kid, come over here. Let's play this. It does something really cool, right? Watch this disc spin. It throws the ball all over the place. And I was like, oh, you know, that's fun. And I remember him telling me, you know, wait for the ball to get to the end of the flipper. but then usually we'll go up and do something cool. So, like, that stuck with me. And then, you know, being a teenager in the 90s at the Family Fun Center at the arcades, you know, when I was done with Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, there's like a wall of all these games back there. You know, Terminator 3, Adam's Family, Fishtails, all of those. And I remember having a handful of tokens, just blocking up and down the line, like, are we going to jump on this one? Should I spend it on this one? You know, this one's two plays for 50 cents. Like, okay, let's go here. And, you know, I've always had that. And my dad and I used to talk about, wouldn't it be cool if we could actually, like, rent one of these machines for our home for a month or something and have it? And, like, that idea stuck with me, you know, through into adulthood when, like, now that's possible, right? So, you know, pinball's always been there. But, like, you know, the last couple of years has been, like, at this level where, like, okay, who are the designers? Who's doing the music? What's coming out? What's new? And being on that bleeding edge of, you know, the whole community and the industry. You know, so that's kind of my trajectory there. Yeah, it's as soon as you care about who designed the game, that's when you've gone to, like, that next level of just, like, you're not just a pinball fan, but you're, like, kind of a cracked pinball fan. And then as soon as you buy a game, that's where you've just lost your fucking mind. Yeah, and those are all great things, and that is the magic of pinball. Okay, I met Dan through local pinball league, and we've been friends ever since. I met Mark at Pinnagogo because my wife and I were staying in line to play the Hobbit when it was the brand new game. And Mark was in line and said, you want to just jump in with us? And we've been friends ever since. And that's the magic of pinball. And that's what I always want people to really hold special. It has the ability. It's in the real world, not just like online, which there's nothing wrong with that, but actually build friendships and relationships. You know, almost three years ago, I moved to Wyoming, and I'm still really tight friends with the guys here on the show, with all the people in my old pinball league that Dan's still part of, people in the Reno scene with Mark. You know, I'm still friends with all these people in real life, and, you know, we always look forward to being able to see each other at the shows and things like that. And that's the magic of pinball. Your story is a great story. I have in my game room a 1976 Gottlieb Surf Champ for the same reason, Don. Basically, it's I would go with my dad to the local 7-Eleven and play that game when I was a little kid. And I would always say two things I would always tell people. You know how kids are on the playground and they laugh at you or whatever. When I grow up, I'm going to be a bazillionaire, and I'm going to have my own pinball machine in my house. Sure you are, Spence. And the other one was a Corvette, which I still don't have yet, and I'm at that point in my life where I'd just kill myself with it. So, but I have the pinball machines, you know, and I'll just go out and just sit on the couch in my basement and just stare at the games. Sometimes I'll just turn them on, not even playing, just stare at them and go, God, what a lucky son of a bitch I am, you know, because I did it, you know. When we were kids, even in like you, you know, in the 90s and all you guys more in the 90s, you didn't know anybody who had a pinball machine in your house. You had to go to the bowling alley or the family fun center or the burger shack or pizza place or whatever to play pinball. Nobody had one in their house. Nobody we knew. Yeah, remember watching Silver Spoons? Little Ricky Schroeder and he had like video games in his house? Yeah, man. He's got, yeah, he's got like a centipede. Totally remember that. Sure, sure. And you're like, oh, my God. Ricky didn't have the machines in his house. His dad did. I remember awesome even in the 80s. Yeah. Right? Edwards Stratton III, right? Edwards Stratton III. Yep, yep. I'm a Silver Springs fan. And it was Monte Carlo, by the way. That was the machine that was in his house, his pinball machine. It was Monte Carlo. Awesome. Yep. Tom Hanks and Big had a pin bot. Pin bot, yeah. That's right. Yep.
    122:18
    And that's, you know, I'm kind of really getting off topic, But – and that's what I don't want the Twippies or anything else to ever take that magic away. I love – you know, it's like when we go to the shows and I would bring a game. I would bring Surf Champ. I would bring, you know, Whirlwind when I have it or whatever. Or you guys bring whatever your game is to a show. And you see somebody play it and you hear the story, you know, because, yeah, yeah, hey, what's your story? You know, it's like, oh, you know, because they get all excited. It's like, you know, I played this game with my best friend in junior high. You know, he lives across country now or, you know, me and my wife, when we were first dating, we used to play this game at, you know, at Bronco Burger or whatever. But they're great stories, you know. And that's the magic of pinball. And that's the thing that I don't ever want. I want everybody who loves pinball to remember that and have that and not worry about, you know, the award show, you know. It's like, it's nice. It's nice for everybody, you know, who gets in the content creators. and like that, but it's just, at the end of the day, man, it's just, you play pinball because you enjoy it and you have fun. And if you're not having fun, why are you doing it? That's my lame of the year. For the record, you just destroyed the lame of the year segment. I kind of did, didn't I? Because I came out swinging. You just ruined it, Thunder. I kind of came out swinging. Yeah, but I picked on everybody else. You just obliterated it. I came out swinging last year. I don't even remember what it was. Now it sounds petty and lame to be bitching about the way they marketed Galactic Tank Force. No, it doesn't. They were fucked up. You're a monster.
    123:57
    High lame of the year is Spencer. There you go. No, I just, it's just the whole debacle is like, why does anybody even fucking care?
    124:10
    So are you saying you wish it was still on? I'd say why bother? Why even bother? No one cares. Shut up and play your games. Because a lot of people do care, though. I do, too. And that's where you're missing the point. Like, people want to, you know, when you reach a certain level of fandom, inside knowledge, whatever, like, pinball's great, right?
    124:37
    Yeah. We all agree that pinball's great. Playing pinball is fun. Owning pinball is insane, but it's rewarding in its own way. recognizing the people who create pinball and who, you know, do all the various aspects of pinball. The industry awards is awesome. I think that where the Twippies went kind of sideways was it became a popularity contest that one person really, really cared about, and everybody else just kind of cared about taking this one person down. Yeah. And that's what I'm talking about, too. And we know who that person is. We all know.
    125:21
    There you go. This isn't really a podcast. This is an intervention. It's okay to not win a trophy. It's not even made out of metal. It's plastic.
    125:37
    Isn't the blue man going to wear it on a chain around my neck? Yeah, there you go. Flavor Flavor. Yeah.
    125:44
    There you go. I love Flavor Flavor. That's great. All right. My Lame of the Year. Oh, you still got your Lame of the Year. No, I didn't do mine yet. All right, Mark. All right. So my Lame of the Year is Chicago Expo with Pinball Adventures not having frickin' elements work at all. So I couldn't see anything working on it.
    126:06
    The collapse was off the whole time. They never, I've never seen, I think I've seen it shot once. and then it just went dead. So I was real disappointed because I thought there were some cool things on it that I wanted to see, and it did not work at all. And that was rude. I was playing with it with the glass off, just, like, checking everything out, and I cut my finger on the sheet metal ramp on the right.
    126:31
    Do you really? Oh, good. Really? That was the fifth element of the game. Okay, but here's the deal. Was broken elements Still better than ninja clips I'm mad now Because I want to change my vote My name is You play ninja clips What did you think It was a fun game I can't wait to see the other half of the cabinet Apparently they did say They're going to put it in a standard cabinet Didn't they I don't know if they're going to keep the shiny acrylic instead of Backglass, the whole thing lifts off there. Some cool innovation.
    127:14
    I think it just needs a project manager. And come on, an app to play the game? Yeah, that's lame. That's a non-starter on location. Nobody's going to do that. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, nobody's going to do it at home because they don't want to, obviously. Nobody's going to do it on location because... Well, you can put it on free play at home. Yeah, exactly. But that's the thing. It's like on location, it's like, so you're going to have to buy a service and pay money when the return on investment on pinball on location is not really so bad now. That's genius. You know, it's like I kind of see a spot in the market for, like, a game like Ninja Eclipse, right? Like, if they made a game like that and they said, hey, it's not going to have a coin door so you don't have to pay for a coin door and we're going to do it this way, we're going to do it that way, it's like, okay, great, good job. But then they're like, it's $10,000. Like, you fuckers are out of your mind.
    128:11
    I really want to know. I really want to know the truth. Is Bobby Boy still behind this? Just, you know, just on the guys. Oh, is he in jail? Well, no, he's not in jail. He's still doing the court dance. He's bringing his mom into court to testify on his behalf that he's a really good guy. Hand to God. Awesome. You've got to be kidding me. No, no, seriously. He's giving character witnesses. He's lining them up. He hasn't brought them in yet, but he's trying to line up character witnesses. Mom's probably counting on still getting her Social Security back or something. Right, yeah. That's going to be the name of the year. There's so many. No, but I just. That would be the name of the decade. But, yeah, I want to change my name of the year. It's not the Twippy mess up, which that's bad enough. But, no, it's that Ninja Eclipse. Because I wasn't even going to mention it. I wasn't going to give them the time of day. And then Dan got me on a roll. And I don't know if you listen. Oh, here we go. I don't know if you listen. I actually had Mark sleep out half of it. And I went off. Like, yeah. Yeah, I went off good.
    129:18
    That was your most epic rant. That was epic. I was out of the room, too. Like, I went to the can or something when you were doing it. I came back. I had to listen to it on the car stereo, and I think that's when I almost drove off the road.
    129:38
    What episode was that? Was that 59? Oh, I don't know. 59. I think it was 59. Yeah. Don, did you hear that episode? No, no. I've got to go back and find it now. Go back and find 59 and listen to my episode. I don't think I actually listened to this podcast. Why do you think I decided to be on it? It's hilarious. I'm going to make sure it's the right one. Let me just check real quick. We need to get a clip of that and put it on YouTube. Yeah.
    130:05
    We'll do an animated me. Look how awesome a game Labyrinth is sitting over there. And they got so much crap for only having one coin slot on the coin door. So then what did you expect when you show up with half a cabinet, no coin door, an app you have to download, and forget it. Yeah.
    130:24
    Okay, we're doing this for $4,000. people would have been like, that's cool, but we're going to charge $10,000 for this.
    130:36
    I've officially changed my name of the year to that, not to twist you. Yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, episode 59, Paul is here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the one. Spencer is just losing his shit. Yep.
    130:53
    No, and that's, because I already went off about them. And that's why I kind of just like, all right, let it go. And I'm kind of thinking, because last year I really went off on somebody on the lane of the year. And I'm like, I'll try to be a kinder, gentler Spencer. And then you guys brought it up. And again, I went, wait a minute, these clowns. It's just like, stop. Okay, look, you got the Stern home games, which are a pretty good value, especially now because they're going really cheap. And then you showed up with less. So like you said, You know, like Don just said, and you parked this thing next to Labrador. These guys came out of nowhere, and look what they did, and what? They were the same price. Mm-hmm. You know? It's like, you can get this. You can get, yeah.
    131:38
    You can get a Cadillac for the price of a Yugo, or you can get a Yugo for the price of a Ferrari. What's it going to be, boys? David Bowie's singing over here versus, yeah, you just can't compete at that level.
    131:51
    Right. Yeah, exactly. And you played it, Don. You played it. Yeah. My lane of the year is officially.
    132:01
    It's a ninja eclipse. What the hell are you trying to sell? It's like, is it an eclipse? Is it a ninja? Does he have a mission? Is he good? Is he bad? What are we doing? Are you playing as the ninja? Are you playing as the sun? Is it a lunar eclipse? What are you trying to tell us? What story are you telling? Well, the cabinet definitely got eclipsed. So there you go. When the moon shines bright, the shadow forms the other half of the cabinet. Let's see.
    132:36
    Oh my goodness. Oh God, there's something so wrong with this. I want to play that again. It's fun to play.
    132:51
    Yeah. But Labyrinth is better, right? Labyrinth is way in order. Yeah, Labyrinth. Hopefully they come the next month. What's the topper? Thank you. Oh, you're so lucky, man.
    133:04
    That topper is really cool looking. That's beautiful. Now, Labyrinth is one of those games that I think that nobody saw that shit coming. No. Nobody saw that coming.
    133:19
    And then they did that little trailer, and you're just like, oh man, what a disaster is this going to be? Or what kind of disaster is this going to be? And then they actually showed the game and you're like, oh, wow, this looks pretty cool too.
    133:31
    And they're producing them, right? They get them out the door now? Are people getting them? Are they manufacturing them now? They said that order numbers up through 700 should be sent by the end of February. Now, I don't know that they have actually 700 orders. I don't know where they started their numbers at, you know. But I'm in 650 or somewhere in there. So I'm anticipating I'm going to get an ask to pay the rest of it here pretty soon. Ooh. This is why, even though I'm kind of on the fence, like, Jaws would be fun to have, but I'm not, like, super enthusiastic about it. I'm happy keeping that Jaws money local because I don't know what the next surprise drop is going to be in the next six months, you know? Maybe this Alice in Wonderland materializes out of the mushroom smoke and blows us all away, you know? So I'd hate to be, like, in on another cookie-cutter Elwynn Stern when, like, something magical could pop up. Yeah. And we've all seen the – go ahead, Tom. The paperwood version? The paperwood version.
    134:31
    Maybe the pinball machine comes like a cereal box. You cut out the back of it, and you could fold it up and then get to play it that way.
    134:38
    You actually take a box, it comes in, and that's the back box. You have to fold it together. It's actually going to be a pinball. Pinball 3000 kit.
    134:49
    That was better. That was better for our heart. And you can color it in. I love it. Like the old posters you used to be able to get where you get the pens and you color it in. Yeah, just make sure you have good ventilation or you're really going to go to Wonderland.
    135:04
    That's the hope, right? I've got those old markers when we were kids. Holy moly, man. Mommy, I'm dizzy.
    135:14
    Come on, kid, you'll get it. Everything's going to be okay. I just can't stay in the lines. Time for shout outs and thank yous gentlemen Alright Well hey let's start I want to thank Don For being interested In being on the show And you know Being super super cool About just you know No drama at all Thank you for wanting to join in On this debacle that we call a podcast. We've been doing this for a long time.
    135:59
    Unlike the Rookie of the Year here. But, you know, thanks for coming and hanging out with us for going on two and a half hours now. Sure, man, anytime. This is what long-term, this is what long-form podcasting is about. Yeah, this is what it is. Long commute. Strap on in. Thank you for coming. And thanks, as always, to Mark and Spencer for doing this and to everybody who loves pinball. You know, all the league players, all the people making games, all the fans, all the people dropping quarters on location. You know, like I think Spencer said super succinctly earlier, you know, pinball is pinball. But, you know, the pinball community is what makes what we do in pinball so damn special.
    136:48
    Yeah, very good. Yeah. Mark, go ahead, man. My shout-out also is to Don. Thanks, Don, for providing awesome content for all the news that you get. And I love your enthusiasm and your voice and how you present the material with your passion for all of our same passion. But you really do a great job communicating that through the microphone and through your podcast. So we really appreciate it. And thanks for taking the time rescheduling. I know we originally were going to go earlier, but I appreciate you coming on later, being a Packer fan. I don't know if you're a Packer fan or not, but that was a good game. But I really appreciate you being flexible on that and being our first podcast owner as a guest on our show, right? Is that the first time we've had somebody like that on our show? On our show, yeah. Yeah, so this is the first of 2024. Yeah, it's the first time. So, yeah, yeah. So thank you so much for being on here, and thanks for providing awesome content. You are now the person I listen to as a person who's solo, who has a nice positive spin on things that are happening in pinball. Sure, yeah. So thank you. Everything except for ninja clips. We can tear that up. Okay. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And the gameplay video of the Galactic Take Force. Yeah, that I got to watch. Oh, man. Please, Don, you have the floor. Yeah, hey, thanks for inviting me on to your wonderful show. It's good to do some long-form conversations here with some other people. And I just want to shout out the community writ large for allowing me to have a space to even operate and do these sorts of things. I do it because it's fun. As long as I can be helpful and I'm having a good time, I'll keep doing it. So it's not about secondary gain for me. I like playing pinball. I lose money on pinball machines regularly. But it's just fun to do. It's fun to spend $500 to fly across the country to go to a convention and play with the newest things and see other people's reactions to them. So that's what I look forward to. I'll plug myself. You can email me at donspinballpodcasts at gmail.com. Great way to get into the interaction part of it. And if you could do me a solid and head over to the Don Spinball Podcast Facebook page, I am five people away from 1,000 followers, which will then open up a lot of algorithmic stuff with Facebook. And I'm super excited about that. So, yeah, just drop a follow. I put live streams up there. I give stuff away. I gave away three hats the other day, a Marco hat, a Pinball Brothers, and then one for Mad Pinball, and I'm sending them all out. One of them is going to Australia. What the heck am I doing? I'm losing money sending hats, but I do it for fun.
    139:28
    The guy in Australia is getting a shirt, too, because I'm paying $30 to send something. I'm going to send them to people.
    139:33
    Get some bank money. But, yeah, I'm just having fun and making it up as I go along. So if you have any suggestions, go ahead and drop me a line because I'll use it. Just keep awesome. Awesome, man. Just keep making great content. I mean, you really, you're filling in a nice void, and you do a great show.
    139:52
    Shout out to you, man. Oh, hey, and for the record, before Spencer gets started, speaking of spending $500 to fly across the country to a pinball show, it is 124 days until the Golden State Pinball Festival. Yes, yes. John, you have to come to the camping one, right? John, yeah. You have to come on. Please.
    140:13
    Yeah. The last time I was in Lodi was the first time I went to a strip club. Well, it could be the last time you went to a strip club, too. I don't know if I want to go out in Lodi strip clubs, look, right?
    140:27
    So before I do the shout-outs, okay, Golden State Pinball Festival. Yes, we have Camp Silver Ball. So people, we camp. It's at the fairgrounds, people tent camp and RV, and it's great. So people set up awnings, right, like the pop-ups, because there's plug-ins for the RVs, and they'll put several games out there, and then when the show closes for the night, they'll move games out of the show and have all-night tournaments and dollar games and, you know. I mean, so the show, it's almost like, it's kind of like the Woodstock of pinball or like going to like a Grateful Dead show without the Grateful Dead kind of vibe because people are just on for three days straight. And there's a lot of really great shows out there, but that's what really separates Golden State Pinball Festival and makes it just that much more space.
    141:22
    Yeah, yeah. The Lodi Great Festival Fairgrounds in beautiful, sunny Lodi, California, home of the Zinfandel Great.
    141:30
    There you go. So to finish my shout-out to – yes, Don, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for providing us with great content and free entertainment. Yeah. And to our listeners, get on his Facebook page and let's get those numbers up, people. Let's help a brother out. To my co-hosts, Dan and Mark, who put up with my lunacy at least once a month, man, and we do this show. And we do it because it's fun, you know, and it's about pinball. Really like one of the most awesome things in the universe. With all the craziness in the world gone, people need more fun. We need more smiles. We need more pinball.
    142:08
    So shout-outs to – who's your flagship, Don, that you're home for your show? Oh, probably – well, MGC is technically closer, but probably Chicago and both. Okay. Okay, excellent. I mean, who – like, where do you, like, post your podcast to originally? Oh, it goes out on Spotify, but it also – the RSS feed's picked up by everybody. Okay, yeah, I've been listening on Spotify I used to listen to everything on Stitcher But then Stitcher closed up So, okay, so let's give a shout out to Spotify I don't judge, you know I mean, Spotify, they take money, what I do They provide content, okay, I don't know So our home flagship is SoundCloud And you can get us on iTunes and other RSS feeds I've seen our episode show up on Spotify So, but, yeah, so I want to shout out to Project Pinball again.
    143:13
    Great organization. Support these guys. You know, you can give them a few bucks, whatever they're charging, and get in the raffle to win a new pinball machine. If you're so inclined, you can just send them $5 or $10 or $20 or whatever. They put pinball machines in children's hospitals and Ronald McDonald houses. There's kids out there that are really, really sick and need something to make them smile. There are families who have kids who are in the hospital that are really, really sick and need something to make them smile. And a pinball machine can do that for a few minutes. And that is worth its weight in gold. So support Project Pinball. Keep playing pinball. Thanks to all our wonderful listeners who tune in every month and go, good God, where are these guys on?
    144:00
    Coffee and Reese's Peanut Butter Cups tonight, gentlemen and ladies, ladies and gentlemen. That's what I got, man. Thank you guys for making Episode 61 wonderful, unique, and fun and entertaining. Awesome. So I'm going to start us up, and then, Don, you want to help jump in and finish us out? Yeah, yeah. We'll close it out. Okay. We'll close it out. Yeah, do you have anything else? I think I covered just about everything. Thanks for listening, everybody. And drop me a line. Let me know what you want to see, and I'll regurgitate that back out into your ear holes. I love it. Awesome. Keep making good content, man. Thanks again for coming on. So Episode 61 of the Spinners Let Pinball Podcast, January of 2024. Play pinball.
    144:43
    Keep America strong. Afghan