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Pedretti Leaks, Jersey Jack Teases, Stern Reveals! | Talking Transformers, Sonic and TotAN

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·56m 29s·analyzed·Jun 5, 2026
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Stern Transformers revealed, Jersey Jack teases Sonic, Pedretti Gaming remake questioned on marketing and design choices.

Summary

Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss recent pinball announcements and industry news: Stern's newly revealed Transformers game featuring designer Elizabeth Gieske and Elliott Eisman, Jersey Jack's teased Sonic the Hedgehog game (rumored, video game version), and Pedretti Gaming of the Arabian Nights remake announced May 12th. The hosts debate the Transformers design choices (particularly the lack of a transforming Transformers mechanic), analyze mechanical complexity and cost trade-offs against games like Godzilla, discuss licensing strategy (Hasbro's role post-D&D success), and express concerns about Pedretti's marketing approach and product clarity on Tales of the Arabian Nights.

Key Claims

  • Transformers code is further along than a lot of codes at this point in the release cycle

    medium confidence · Josh Roop discussing Transformers code quality in comparison to typical releases

  • Hasbro was really easy to work with on Transformers licensing, likely due to D&D's success

    medium confidence · Josh Roop speculating on Hasbro's collaborative approach based on prior D&D game

  • Godzilla was over budget for what it was supposed to be

    medium confidence · Josh Roop referencing prior statements about Godzilla production costs

  • Stern produces roughly 35,000 games per year while smaller manufacturers like Spooky/Barrels of Fun produce around 1,000

    medium confidence · Scott Larson discussing economies of scale between manufacturers

  • Designers typically plan game development well in advance (roughly 1.5 years) with detailed bill-of-materials tracking

    medium confidence · Josh Roop referencing George Gomez's spreadsheet shown at John Wick reveal

  • Jersey Jack is teasing Sonic the Hedgehog based on video game, not movie versions

    medium confidence · Josh and Scott interpreting a Jersey Jack shadow photo teaser showing Steve Ritchie with rumor context

  • Tales of the Arabian Nights was officially announced May 12th with minimal follow-up marketing

    high confidence · Scott Larson directly stating the announcement date and expressing confusion about lack of marketing

  • Pedretti Gaming of the Arabian Nights remake will not use original artwork (Brian Allen variant visible in leaked photo)

    medium confidence · Scott Larson and Josh Roop discussing NAP Arcade leak photo showing non-original cabinet art at Pinball Planet warehouse

Notable Quotes

  • “I felt like this was more...I was jealous over this because I felt like this is what Turtles should have been. I felt like Turtles was good, don't get me wrong, but I felt like this was like a dedicated, like, they really sunk their teeth into the material.”

    Josh Roop @ N/A — Expresses strong approval of Transformers' thematic integration compared to prior title (TMNT), establishing competitive context for game quality

  • “If you're going to put a critical eye...the dinosaur sculpt, it's Grimlock, right? It could have been a little better, but...you could say the same thing about Godzilla.”

    Scott Larson @ N/A — Acknowledges minor aesthetic criticism while contextualizing it within industry norms, defending design choices

  • “Optimus, no transform. [laughs] I feel bad for these designers because I feel like a lot of this is shouldered on them...maybe people don't run businesses?”

    Josh Roop @ N/A — Defends designers against community criticism, suggests business/financial constraints drive design decisions rather than creative intent

  • “Do you fault Bugatti because they're not doing the same things that Ford is doing? Or do you get upset when Ford isn't mass producing Bugatti?”

    Scott Larson @ N/A — Metaphor defending Stern's different business model from boutique manufacturers, establishing context for manufacturing scale differences

  • “If Hasbro has done Dungeons and Dragons and now Transformers, what else are they going to throw onto the table if they are an option for more pinball in the future?”

    Josh Roop @ N/A — Signals emerging strategic partnership opportunity between Hasbro and Stern, opens speculation about future IP pipeline

  • “I don't understand them. What company teases something and then a month later we still have no idea about where can you buy it? How much does it cost?”

    Scott Larson @ N/A — Expresses frustration with Pedretti's marketing strategy for TotAN, raises concerns about startup company viability and customer communication

  • “Sonic is basically Sega's answer to Mario...if you were to choose a version that you would focus on for a pinball machine, would you go with the movies or would you prefer the video game?”

Entities

Josh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonElizabeth GieskepersonElliott EismanpersonSteve RitchiepersonGeorge GomezpersonBrian Allenperson

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Stern officially revealed Transformers pinball game with media event and podcast guest appearances (Elizabeth Ley, Elliott Eisman on LoserKid show)

    high · Josh and Scott reference attending Stern accommodation on short notice, having Elizabeth and Elliott as recent podcast guests discussing game details

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Jersey Jack teased Sonic the Hedgehog via shadow photo; rumor specifies video game version (not movie), but not officially confirmed

    medium · Josh and Scott see Steve Ritchie backlit shadow photo with cryptic caption, infer Sonic based on community rumor, note 'at least that's what the rumor is'

  • ?

    leak_detection: Tales of the Arabian Nights cabinet art leaked via Planetary Pinball warehouse photo; shows Brian Allen artwork variant (not original)

    high · NAP Arcade posted photo of unboxed cabinet at Planetary Pinball Reno warehouse; Scott confirms non-original art visible on cabinet side

  • ?

    product_concern: Optimus Prime does not physically transform in Transformers game; community criticism vs. designer/business rationale (reliability, cost, ROI)

    high · Extended debate: 'Optimus Prime, no transform...Shark No Eat Ball' meme; Josh and Scott discuss mechanical feasibility, durability risks, manufacturing costs vs. prior Gomez Transformers (2011) which also lacked transforming mechanic

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Stern design trade-offs: Megatron Cannon positioned as premium mechanic alternative to Optimus transform; comparison to Godzilla's over-budget multi-mech design suggests intentional restraint

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.169

0:00
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. I am Josh Roop. With me, my co-captain, Scott Larson. And Scott, it's just me and you hanging out today. It's kind of just us. Kind of random. You can't always just have guests on because at some point we need to catch up with pinball and people want to know about what's going on with the hobby, what's going on with each of the manufacturers. And so this is a good episode for us to really just talk about, hey, this is what's going on and keep you up to date. Definitely. So we can talk about Transformers, the somewhat announced Sonic, because we saw Steve Ritchie's crazy hair. Ish. And then Tales of the Arabian Nights. Do you want any of these games? Where are you going to be getting them from? Yeah. Call Zach and Nicole Minnie at Flippin' Out Pinball. They can help you with all things pinball, including used and new. So reach out to them. And if you are interested in some LE, get on the interested list. Even if it's not announced, they can at least say, hey, if you're interested in a title, they can put you on that. Definitely. OK, first one we talked about. So we are kind of alluded to this, right? Like Stern came out with Transformers. You and I did not go to the media day. Okay, so yes, we didn't go to the reveal day for the media, but we were very lucky in that Stern was able to accommodate us, that Elizabeth and Elliot were able to come on our show, talk, check out our last episode. We were able to ask on very short notice. We were able to get some information and to know a lot more about Transformers. I loved it because Elizabeth is just excited. She was glowing over this because it's her first time on lead and she's killing it. Seriously, some of the most memorable modes in games like in Jaws, Scars, the shark is broken. There's so many cool things that she's brought to pinball and I think she understands that balance of moments but with gameplay and flow and just what people want to play when they're playing a game. You definitely want this type of excitement when you're getting into pinball because you really should have that hunger when you're getting your shot to be able to say, this is what I can do in pinball and being able to show, hey, this is how I really want to take things and do my take on it. I also think Elliot's doing a good job. I would say it was a little challenging. John Wick was a challenging license for many reasons. And so I'm really glad that he was able to get a second shot. And I'm interested in playing this. I still have not played one on location yet. But I think Kedos is getting one here soon or one of our local things. So I'm planning on going up there and taking a look at it. But Josh, there's lots of questions about this. So why don't you give me the rundown of the things that you took were huge positives and then questions that people are talking about? I think we'll obviously get to Optimus Prime, right? Sure. And we'll talk about it here in a second. But can we, like you said, I want to fire on the right cylinders with the pros first. I think the Megatron Cannon is very cool. I know that they're trying to do some different stuff. Like they said on our show, they were a little concerned with shooting it directly at the player because of automatic drains and stuff like that.

Josh Roop @ N/A — Frames licensing choice as critical to game positioning, establishes franchise history context for design decisions

  • “I really want to explore the code more than I do want to see the mech do the thing...Once I get into my collection, the mech is really cool, but it loses its shine and luster after 10, 20 plays.”

    Scott Larson @ N/A — Articulates personal collector priority hierarchy (code depth over novelty mechanics), reveals gamer psychology relevant to game design trade-offs

  • “That is really cool – it's basically taking the Jurassic Park dinosaur...and adding a cannon to it. It's like a Jurassic Park dinosaur had a love baby with Dungeons & Dragons dragon.”

    Josh Roop @ N/A — High praise for Megatron Cannon mechanic, positions it as innovative synthesis of prior design concepts, deflects Optimus Prime criticism

  • “Reliability is huge to me...I don't have the kind of time to troubleshoot a game. So I'm hoping that this is a huge hit and they stick with an option that gives me the original music, the original call-outs, the original code.”

    Josh Roop @ N/A — Identifies collector/home operator priority (reliability + authenticity), establishes benchmarks for TotAN remake expectations based on Chicago Gaming's approach

    • Stern Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Pedretti Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Barrels of Funcompany
    Transformersgame
    Sonic the Hedgehoggame
    Tales of the Arabian Nightsgame
    Godzillagame
    Medieval Madnessgame
    John Wickgame
    Dungeons and Dragonsgame
    Funhousegame
    Hasbrocompany
    Flip N Out Pinballcompany
    Pinball Planetvenue
    LoserKid Pinball Podcastorganization

    high · Josh praises Megatron Cannon (Jurassic Park dinosaur + D&D dragon hybrid), frames it as compensation for no-transform criticism; Scott discusses budget/reliability constraints post-Godzilla

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Hasbro positioned as collaborative and easy-to-work-with licensor post-D&D success; likely to enable future pinball IP deals (G.I. Joe, He-Man, Masters of the Universe candidates discussed)

    medium · Josh notes Hasbro 'was really, really easy to work with' likely due to D&D success; speculates on additional Hasbro IP options for future Stern titles

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern produces ~35,000 games/year vs. boutique manufacturers (Spooky, Barrels of Fun) at ~1,000/year; economies of scale prevent direct comparison on cost/features

    medium · Scott's Bugatti/Ford analogy and explicit production figures to justify different design/pricing strategies between manufacturers

  • $

    market_signal: Collector priority hierarchy differs from operator/casual player: code depth and reliability > novelty mechanics; directly impacts game design feedback interpretation

    high · Scott articulates personal preference for code exploration over mechanic novelty after 10-20 plays; Josh emphasizes reliability for home operator (no maintenance bandwidth)

  • ?

    product_strategy: Transformers positioned for sell-out (LE > Pro/Premium demand expected); comparison to G.I. Joe and Masters of the Universe as similar-tier themes; nostalgia 80s IP bundle strategy with Hasbro

    medium · Josh predicts Transformers will 'sell out and then premiums and pros have to prove themselves'; Hasbro IP speculation suggests coordinated 80s licensing strategy

  • ?

    community_signal: Community backlash on Optimus Prime no-transform framed as misplaced designer blame; hosts defend designers against unrealistic expectations and business constraints

    high · Josh defends designers: 'I feel bad for these designers because I feel like a lot of this is shouldered on them...maybe people don't run businesses?'; reframes criticism as business/financial issue

  • ?

    product_concern: Pedretti's Tales of the Arabian Nights announce-then-disappear strategy problematic for startup company; no clarity on pricing, availability, features, distribution 1 month post-announcement

    high · Scott criticizes: 'What company teases something and then a month later we still have no idea about where can you buy it? How much does it cost? What features are there?'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Megatron Cannon positioned as novel mech synthesis: combines Jurassic Park dinosaur movement with T2/ACDC-style controllable cannon; described as 'interactive to the point of almost like Rudy from Funhouse'

    high · Josh describes it as 'Jurassic Park dinosaur had a love baby with Dungeons & Dragons dragon'; notes interactive element beyond passive ball deflection, compares to Rudy (Funhouse)

    • 3:35
    I really like the Soundwave. I know it's just a ball lock, but it's cool. It's still cool. It's way cool.
    3:43
    I think once people get their hands on this and start playing the code, it really is going to come into its own and people are going to love it more. So that's, I don't know, if it were me, like, I felt like this was more, like, no slight to Borg, but like, I was jealous over this because I felt like this is what Turtles should have been. I felt like Turtles was good, don't get me wrong, was good, but I felt like this was like a dedicated, like, they really sunk their teeth into the material and was able to translate that into pinball. What do you think, Scott? Now, Turtles, the challenge with Turtles is it was a little mismatch. And I totally understand there's a little bit of scar tissue because he put Munsters out, which was a fan layout. It was accessible and approachable for entry-level players. And people criticized him for making a baby game.
    4:41
    And unfortunately, it's trying to find that balance of, hey, we want to make sure it's challenging for great players. But it's also accessible for new players. Threading that needle, Turtles I felt was more on the difficult side. The shots were definitely elite level shots. A little mismatch maybe on the difficulty of the game versus the theme.
    5:06
    But hey, this is how it is now with Star Wars. The shots are a little more predictable, a little more fan layout. But you also have Raymond on the code there too. So you actually have a surprisingly great code package with Star Wars. I think this one has the potential too with the way the Transformers is interacting with this. And they talked about it. It's mainly focusing on the first two seasons. So if you are OG, if you want to go and look at the first two seasons of the cartoon, you can see exactly which elements they're pulling from that, which is good.
    5:50
    Well, they even brought back Hot Rod, though, which was the guy that they introduced to take over Optimus Prime's spot in the movie. Yeah, I will say I did not grow up with any money, so I don't even think my parents took me to this movie. I actually never had a Transformer of my own. I would go to my friend's house and play with their Transformers, but I was definitely in the wheelhouse.
    6:13
    And I actually did look up, by the way, if you want to get your Generation 1 Soundwave, you can, and you can get them on eBay. And I did look. They're about $80 or so, and then you can also get all the cassettes with all the different animals that you would shoot out. So I thought that was a really cool option. That is cool. But okay, so elephant in the room, is this shark no eat ball? Is this like, okay, I understand the criticism. People saying, hey, it's Transformers, but it doesn't transform anything. Okay, what reasonable expectation can people have? Because last time I checked when Gomez did Transformers, they didn't transform there either. So why is this a big deal? Do you think it's a legitimate criticism? Do you think it's overblown? What are your thoughts? I mean, at least on the Gomez one, you get hit out to Ms. Prime in the crotch. Ouch.
    7:16
    I can see it both ways. I guess it really comes down to when you play pinball, what are you playing pinball for? Is it watching mechs do their job inside of games? Is it flow? Is it code? Is it the experience itself? You could argue that Guns N' Roses isn't the best playing game, but it is definitely probably one of the best experiences in the last five years. And it's literally like a concert under the class, right? For me personally, I've really done some introspection. For me personally, I prefer game flow code because here's the thing. Once I get into my collection, the mech is really cool, but it loses its shine and luster after 10, 20 plays, and I really want to explore the code more than I do want to see the mech do the thing. Right. I just I feel like it's overblown, but I can also see it from the perspective like this was your dream theme and you've got this preconceived notion of like things need to transform in a Transformers game. I can see how it falls short for me. No, not a big deal. OK, I would I'm going to ask a few questions if I told you, hey, Transformers is coming out and they make cool mechs in a pinball machine. I think it's reasonable to say, okay, so is it going to do the thing, right?
    8:47
    There are a couple challenges though. What would a reasonable mechanism transformation actually look like?
    8:57
    I don't know. Well, now that you're asking this too, are there games that have had transforming mechs?
    9:07
    Do you count the skyscraper from Godzilla? Okay, so that's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking of things that they're really cool, actually. And I'm going to push back a little bit on the mechanism isn't a big deal. I think it is, actually. If you look at Medieval Madness, if Medieval Madness did not have the castle, it would not be the game it is. True. It wouldn't. But it's one small moment that is still cool to see. Godzilla with the building up and down, it's cool. And it's cool that it moves up and down and changes the ball path. Also, acting has the ball lock. And when you start Godzilla multiball, it comes down and spits him from the tower. That's a cool effect. I don't think it's exactly the same if you don't have that. However, you're looking at the mechanism. What is the fancy thing that the Godzilla Tower actually does? It moves up and down. But it does change ball paths depending on the level. But I'm just saying from a mechanical standpoint, it does one thing. It goes up and down. And if you really look at Medieval Madness, the castle, all it's doing is it has the three of the four castle – I don't know. What would you say? The towers? Pillars. Yeah, towers. The towers. They're basically kind of on a spring, and so it relaxes, and the towers shake that way. Yeah. Okay? So amazing – You also have the drawbridge and the gate too. You would, but that goes up and down. But imagine for you to have that one moment, the most you could possibly expect, which I believe was the mechanism, is to have Optimus stand up and put his arms out like a chicken wing. Yeah, true. That's kind of the most you could reasonably expect from a mechanical wonder in a pinball machine. Then you also have on top of that, okay, how durable is this? So if he – okay, are we just going to have Optimus stand up? Is that worth it? I don't know. If his arms move out, are his arms vulnerable to damage? I don't know. And then you have other issues. Once you have any sort of extra movement in there, there's a – you have a reliability issue. Well, and that's the other thing, too. There's also this argument of it starts down, but as soon as you press start, as it's loading the ball into the shooter lane, he stands up and says, Autobots roll out. But it becomes an ROI situation then, too. The other angle that a lot of people haven't talked about this, what if it was a financial decision?
    12:08
    Because here's the thing, I think Godzilla is really, really great, but what other Sterns in the Spike 2 era have had similar mechs? It's pretty, let's talk about it real quick. You got the Skyscraper up and down, which is a pretty big mech, right? That's a big mech. Yeah, it is huge. It's actually like a shoebox size almost. You've got the turntable in front of Mechagodzilla. So you get the stand-ups and then it flips and you get a spinner on that. Plus Mechagodzilla himself grabs the ball and holds onto it with his stomach. The tummy tuck. Yeah. You've got the breaking bridge that drops the ball. Also with the magnet that grabs the ball. With the double spinners. I mean, the game's pretty loaded and I can't think of another Stern that hits on the same level as Godzilla when it comes to mechs.
    12:59
    And I think they've even said that Godzilla was over budget for what it was supposed to be. Do you think that was a detriment? Because now everything's being compared to Godzilla, but Godzilla's one of the best-selling games, if not the best-selling game in the last 40 years. It probably will be. At least it's on track to beat Adam's family.
    13:24
    Okay, that's actually a good question. I hadn't really thought about it. So I kind of went long-winded. Sorry. So I guess my two-question is, did financials stand in and say, hey, this is over budget? Or two, they came and said, hey, you have too many cool mechs in this, and we're already paying for it with Godzilla. You need to pull something out. You know, I – okay, that is a possibility. Given that we know when we went to the John Wick reveal, we had George Gomez came in. He showed us this giant spreadsheet. So for people who think that the development of games is not well thought out it is ridiculously well executed and planned And so it takes roughly about a year and a half Now I would think now we know we know historically designers would put extra stuff in games such as we throw drop targets in And eventually they look at it and say, hey, you're over your bill of material. And so they're like, okay, make those standups. Okay.
    14:33
    But I would be surprised if you look at some of the pictures, you can see Optimus Prime in what looks like a squatted position in the promotional material that they probably shot with in the last two months. I would be shocked if they pulled it out that late in the game when they were already doing promotional things. Is it possible? Sure. And they're not going to tell us. I would be surprised if that were it. I think the driving force would definitely be reliability. And I don't disagree with you. I think, right, it's a bunch of variables, right? But it's made me look from a different angle of like, I feel like looking at the release of Transformers, right? And with the whole Optimus Prime No Transform, which I guess is the new Shark No Eat Ball. Shark No Eat Ball, yeah. Optimus, no transform.
    15:29
    I feel bad for these designers because I feel like a lot of this is shouldered on them. I saw a lot of like, Elliot took this out, how could he? And I saw a lot of like, Sturd, how could they do this to us? And I'm just like, I just don't, I don't know, maybe people don't run businesses? No, they don't, obviously, Josh, because they want the same thing, right? They want to buy a new game for significantly under MSRP, and then they want to resell it for over MSRP. Yeah, yeah. So they want to buy new games cheap and sell used games expensive. Well, and people keep comparing Stern to Spooky and to Barrels of Fun, which I get. They're both pinball machines, right? But do you fault Bugatti because they're not doing the same things that Ford is doing? Or do you get upset when Ford isn't mass producing Bugatti? You know what I'm saying? Okay, I agree with you. I wouldn't say the analysis is necessarily that a small boutique company is higher end because I don't think they're producing higher end products. But you are right. When you're talking economies of scale, you cannot expect a small company that makes 1,000 games in a year to compete with a company that makes probably 35,000 games a year. Yeah.
    16:57
    Yeah. Okay. But look at it. Who's talking about that Megatron canon is really cool? It really is cool. I am the first one to say if you're focused on the Transformer deficit, then you are missing one of the coolest mechanisms that Elliot designed. That is a really cool – it's basically taking the Jurassic Park dinosaur, the moving dinosaur thing, and adding a cannon to it. It's like a Jurassic Park dinosaur had a love baby with Dungeons & Dragons dragon and they spit out Megatron's cannon. Yeah, I can see where you're coming from.
    17:45
    It is a really cool mech. Like it still is – I think the cannon, granted we can see where it goes and whatnot and some people are like, well, just shoots a ball into a ramp. But there's so much potential there. It's really, really cool. I don't feel like outside of a canon that you control like on T2 or an ACDC, this is something different. This is interactive to the point of like this is almost like Rudy from Funhaus like messing with you. You know what I'm saying? Like it just there's there's an extra level there that I don't feel like we're accepting or acknowledging. And I think you're right. Like it's really, really cool. You got to focus on the cool mech you got. Yeah. Which is a really cool mech. If I had a choice between that and a Transformer, I'll take the Mech. Yeah, I agree. What are your overall thoughts of Transformers? They did the right thing in going with size-appropriate sculpts. So the sculpts are actually pretty close to what the toys were. Yeah. As opposed to putting a bunch of tiny ones around. If you're going to put a critical eye, okay, the dinosaur sculpt, it's Grimlock, right? I'm getting that correct. I think so, yes. Grimlock, yeah. Okay, it could have been a little better, but that's – come on, that's Tiki-Tak, right? Yeah. Like you could say the same thing about Godzilla. Godzilla is back here and he has, I would say, an underwhelming Godzilla sculpt and then they threw it on the topper again, the exact same sculpt. Can we just all agree that the Decepticons won versus the Autobots in this game? Between the Grimlock and the Chicken Wing Optimus Prime, Megatron and Scent. Chicken Prime, yeah. Yeah, they look so much better. Soundwave looks really, really cool. Okay, because the Decepticons always look cooler than the Autobots. I don't care if I can turn into a car. I'm going to fly. I'm a jet, okay? Thank you. Was it Bruce and Ron of Slam Tilt that sent us the picture of that like legit gun? I'm like, what are you doing with a gun? He's like, this is what Megatron used to transform to in the 80s. It looks like a serious gun. Yeah, it was a sniper rifle. Yeah. No, I was totally jealous of that. Yeah. Okay. So I listened to Slam Tilt. I didn't actually see. Did you watch the video of it? I didn't. Oh, yeah. But I'm just wondering, like, if because it did, I don't remember it being like super long. I think it was more of like a handheld one with a scope on it. Yeah, because, yeah, that that would be ridiculously big. But it was it was a cool mech. I mean, every kid wanted the Megatron one looked cool. It this this mech was as a toy. I now know why. I'm wondering if this is the toy that forced guns in the 90s and stuff to have the orange tip. Okay, so it wasn't that one. But I will say when I bought – I went and bought a whole bunch of Nintendo Entertainment System games about 20 years ago. And I bought like a refurbished system. And I got the old school system that slides in horizontally, which is a stupid design. But I got it because that's what I grew up with. And I went out of my way to buy the original gun that was gray. And after the law changed, they had to change the gun to the gray and red. I have the orange one. Yeah. So you have the new one. I specifically went out of my way to buy the old one because that's the one I grew up with. See, and I grew up with the orange. I didn't know there was any different because it came with Duck Hunt and Mario. Yep. It was bundled in the NES package. It does, and then in later iterations it came with World Runner or something. Oh, yeah. That was a dumb game. But overall, I think Transformer is great.
    21:50
    Oh, well, I'm the Optimus Prime. Yeah. Okay, the code's good. The code's good. The code's farther along than a lot of codes at this point. It does benefit from having Hasbro as the licensor because we know that there's a lot of companies, especially the bigger licenses. People want the bigger licenses. You have to realize it takes a lot longer to get through approvals. I mean, just look at the R2-D2 topper, right? Yeah. Like how long did it take for that to get approved? And James Bond, we know, is a licensing challenging nightmare. It turned out to be a really good game, but you have to wait for it. So we're going through the same thing with Pokemon.
    22:32
    You have to wait for license or approval. Yeah. I think Hasbro was really, really easy to work with on this. I think it's because Dungeons and Dragons turned out so well that they were just like, yeah. So that begs the other question, too. If Hasbro has done Dungeons and Dragons and now Transformers, what else are they going to throw onto the table if they are an option for more pinball in the future? That's actually a good question. I haven't researched this. Have you researched whatever major things, what other major licenses Hasbro has? I did. One of them, I think, was My Little Pony.
    23:06
    I'm not sure that'll be a big seller with the Dad Rock crowd, but hey, you can branch out. You know the loaf-hanging fruit here that everyone wants, right? G.I. Joe? G.I. Joe. Yeah, G.I. Joe. So, you know what? Maybe. Okay, I'm looking at all the – if they're really going to tap into the nostalgia of the 80s, He-Man could be an option.
    23:29
    Thundercats was kind of a B-roll He-Man. There's a couple of them. I know there's a couple of people like G.I. Joe. And it doesn't help that when you got – Do you think G.I. Joe would be a big seller though? I'm curious.
    23:42
    I think he'd be on the same plane as Transformers. See, I would say Transformers. At least sell out and then premiums and pros have to prove themselves. But I would say Transformers is still a better title. I would even say Masters of the Universe would be a bigger title.
    23:59
    That's how this movie goes. Yeah, maybe that's true. Maybe it's on the same level as G.I. Joe, I guess. Maybe. All righty. Let's talking about Transformers. Okay. Speaking of other things. The company that released an announcement the same day as Transformers of don't spend your money.
    24:19
    Oh, poor Jack. So, Zersey Jack did like a, what is that called? A shadow photo with like a blue board behind. It's like a teaser photo.
    24:30
    It seriously said like, don't blink or you'll miss it. And it's Steve Ritchie, obviously. He looks possessed. He's like backlit. So obviously in June, so we're in June now. I doubt we're going to see it this week.
    24:49
    Sonic the Hedgehog, or at least that's what the rumor is. And my understanding too is the video games, not the movies. So, okay, let's talk about Sonic as a license then. So there are lots of iterations of Sonic. So if you're old enough to remember the early days of the console wars, So Sonic was basically Sega's answer to Mario, right? So you had Nintendo, which is an 8-bit system, which was even better than the 4-bit system. There were a lot of great things they did. And then they came out with the Genesis, which was 16-bit. And it did take up the graphics level. Now, I'm sure that Sega spent a ton of money on marketing and making this thing look really cool, which it really did. It definitely, if you compare the original Sonic the Hedgehog game to like the Super Mario Brothers, it's no question that the Sonic the Hedgehog looks really cool.
    25:55
    Didn't really sustain them long term. There were a few games and there was even a Sonic Spinball. Then kind of went underground for a while. Sega kind of disappeared as a big player in the console wars. I thought the first movie was really good. The second movie was okay and I never really saw the other ones. But if you were to choose a version that you would focus on for a pinball machine, would you go with the movies or would you prefer the video game? Me? Personally, I grew up on the games, my good sir. So Sonic, it's funny because my friends had the Super Nintendo, so my mom was like, I'm buying you the Genesis because why have the games? Why have games you can borrow? Yeah, exactly, I guess, I don't know. But I had all the Sonic the Hedgehog games, and they were one after another after another, right? So like Sonic in 91, you've got Sonic 2 in 92, Sonic 3, or Sonic CD in 93, Sonic 3 in 94, Sonic and Knuckles in 94 again. I mean, and then they started to space out, because it went from like, say, Genesis, and then the Dreamcast dropped, but it didn't do super well. Dreamcast lost out to Sony, to PlayStation. Yeah. Which is sad, but I guess that is what it is, business, right? But then they started spacing out, and then the weird part is these games started getting away from what I felt Sonic was.
    27:27
    But, I mean, I'm still more of the old school platformer where you're running as fast as you can. But you know what I'm saying? You're basically a blue pinball machine. You're a pinball. You're a blue pinball flying through. Okay, so I think we can agree that... Spinball is not in this list, and it would be within that first five years. Spinball is, I mean, I sent you that when, didn't I send like the year that Spinball was? You did send me Spinball, and I grew up on that one too. Like, I loved Spinball. I mean, that's part of where my pinball obsession came from. Okay, my pinball obsession started on Sesame Street when they had the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Yes. Yeah, because it was a pinball. I was like that is super cool Okay so I think we can agree that the game is the better version right And there like a cartoon of that too He even showed up in Rocket Ralph.
    28:23
    You know what's wild? Hold on. You know what's wild? Did you know there was actually two Sonic shows that released at the same time that was airing at the exact same time, But one was more Looney Tunes-esque and goofy like that while the other one was more nitty and gritty. I just – I find it – sorry. I know a lot about Sonic history because my brother-in-law loves Sonic, like absolutely loves it. And I didn't realize this, but it was pointed out in the last couple of years. Sonic is a direct ripoff of Dragon Ball Z. Okay. So I was right. Like he has like the hair thing and the – yeah. Yeah. He goes super Sonic. Yeah. He goes golden and then his hair then – yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and then they got the Chaos Emeralds and like even the names of some of the characters cross with what's going on with Dragon Ball Z. Hey, didn't Masters of the Universe also come out with two competing ones? One was like a Kevin Smith one and there was like another one like in the last two years. I don't know.
    29:23
    Okay, I'm interested. Now, one thing that I think is reasonable to ask, is it going to have a loop-de-loop?
    29:31
    I don't know. Because that's – okay, if you're closing your eyes and imagining Sonic, you are imagining him going screaming fast. The graphics are flying by fast, and he does that loop-de-loop thing and goes around there. Also, the pop bumpers are those red, blue star. You know how like in the game that you bounce off of those? That's got to be in there as well. That's an easy – that's a pop bumper cover. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. What else? Rings all over the place, yeah. Obviously the spinner, because in the game when you go past a checkpoint, the top of it spins like a spinner. It would be cool if that was – here is the problem with when we find out about a game, right? Then we start speculating what it should be. Yeah, we have no idea. So Sonic's coming out, at least. Yes. That's the theme. One thing we can talk about has been announced, but hasn't really shown anything, and not much has happened since. This is Tales of the Arabian Nights was officially announced May 12th, so we're almost at a month now. Yeah. But nothing else has happened? Like, what's going on there? I don't really understand Pendretti's marketing. I thought Funhouse was a good example of a remake that was not done by CGC. Yeah. There were definitely some things that I thought were less – excuse me – that were – that could have been done better. I know it was their first exposure to the remakes.
    31:04
    I don't think the remakes – like the extra – like the dark fun house. Oh, the Brian Allen edition? Well – Or Rudy's Nightmare 2.0. Yeah, and so like I didn't feel that that was a market that needed to be tapped. I guess I'll put it that way.
    31:28
    But I'm wondering about their approach because I do – I really do like Tales of the Arabian Nights. I'm interested in buying the game. I want to buy the game. I want to put it in my collection because I like having options for people to have some straightforward games when they come down to my game room. It's important for me to not overwhelm people with a whole bunch of rules and be able to say, okay, you should have a fun entry-level game. And I feel that hits that window. Now, are they going to have good quality? That's a good question. Are they going to be reliable? Because reliability is huge to me. Yes. So that especially because I don't I don't have the kind of time to troubleshoot a game. And so and this is, you know, Alien had issues right out of the game. This is the highway alien. Yeah. So that there were like it was like a fan group who wanted to fix and keep these games alive. I don't have that kind of effort to be able to do that. So I'm hoping that this is a huge hit.
    32:36
    I'm hoping that they stick with an option that gives me the original music, the original call-outs, the original code, and the original artwork. Because that's where Chicago Gaming Company did an excellent job. Now, there were ways that they modernized it with the DMD, but they modernized it so it looks better. That definitely is a huge deal. There are ways you can modernize something while keeping it consistent with what it was originally. Yeah. So I want to see that come out. However, Josh, I don't understand them. What company teases something and then a month later we still have no idea about where can you buy it? How much does it cost? What features are there? Are there two options out there? What are you getting for your money? Who can you contact for this stuff? It seems confusing that they don't have a discernible plan for marketing this product, which I think is necessary when you are a startup-type company. You're a small company who relies on money to keep going, and if you make a big, big misstep, then people are going to be concerned. Yeah. One thing is, though, like, so NAP Arcade did post a picture of what I assume to be Brian Allen artwork. Yeah. So I guess someone had went to Planetary Pinball's warehouse in Reno, and someone had one of these unboxed right by the garage door, and whoever it was snapped a quick picture. It's a teaser picture at the best. You can definitely tell on the side of the cabinet that it is not the original artwork. So it almost has – Is it close though? This is the challenge with the Funhaus art. The Funhaus art was a little bit of a mix-up of a lot of different themes into the art. Now my Medieval Madness actually has a Brian Allen art package on it. I have the back glass is the Brian Allen version of it and I have the art blades in there that's the Brian Allen version. So I'm not opposed to mixing things up. As long as it stays consistent with the theme. I agree. And I think there is room to modernize the art and still make it look good.
    35:04
    Tells of the Arabian Nights art is nice, but it definitely feels dated, which is kind of weird to say.
    35:10
    But it almost felt like child's book from like the 80s kind of thing. You know what I'm saying? Storytime. Yeah. Mickey and the Magic Lamp was one of my favorite kids' books. Or did you ever get like the Mother Goose series? You know what I'm saying? It was multiple Little Red Riding Hood and stuff like that. But it was all – you get what I'm saying. Yes. Okay. I will say, though, I like the back glass, Brian Allen's back glass from Medieval Madness better than the original, which is why I have it. I also, on Monster Bash, I like his version better than the original. Yeah. I'm a fan of the original. Yeah. I will say, though, that that medieval madness does look good. Yeah. So but no, I think overall, yeah, we're kind of still waiting. So give us more information. We want to play the game. We want to be able to buy the game. We want to be able to market the game and figure out things because I if there's one thing I'm a fan of is I'm fan of the remakes because it definitely comes from an era. There's a reason why people are still buying the Beatles' White Album. There are way more complex albums out there that have been generated since then, but it's still a classic game. The one thing that we can talk about that they've announced, but they've trickled it out, and I think people have forgotten about it, is they have hired the CGC software and development team.
    36:38
    The quality that you know that comes to CGC is now working for Pedretti. So that must mean A, CGC is no longer in the remake business. They're comfortable with what they've made and they're like, we're done.
    36:51
    And the issues that like I own a fun house, I actually really love it. I think it's a really great game and my kids love it. My only complaint is the software sometimes does some weird glitchy things. Yeah. Like Rudy, and it's not anything that was like game hindering. It's just like, why is Rudy's mouth moving? But he's not saying anything. Right. And then it's like, it has a hard time layering. Because the way that this one works is it's emulating the original code, but they're trying to update and fix the code as well. So it was originally Team Pinball, which if you didn't see that, they threw a fit and did quite the little social media post. Yeah, we'll let them fight that on social media. If you haven't seen it, go check it out, I guess, if it's your cup of tea. But my point being is like I'm excited for a Totem because we're getting my game has been really, really nice. Like I've had just that one switch issue and that's it. And so like I I have no complaints. I do know people like I I will not discredit. I do know people that have messaged me directly that was like I had this and this and this and this. I get it like some sometimes you're going to get a lemon out of the box, which really sucks, Especially when you're spending this kind of money on a pinball machine, right? That's why it falls back on the company to make sure that the customer service is top notch, right? Because you're not going to get 100% perfect every time. So that's why you buy through Flippin' Out because that goes above and beyond. Well, especially with the whole haggis debacle. Yes.
    38:26
    Okay, so that is a huge plus that they got a lot of the people who worked on the CGC team. So I have the upgrade. I've been playing the upgrade a lot on Cactus Canyon. I am still amazed by what they were able to do with the upgrade to modernize the game. The game feels on par with Medieval Madness and maybe even above when it comes to the different code options that it has included in there. And there's always something you can do. I'm not saying it's Godzilla level, but in Godzilla, if you start going down a path, you can keep going down that path. You don't have to say, okay, well, I need to always pull back and go to the main line. With the Lyman complete code, it's excellent. The dots that they did to program it is great. The code looks like it's an updated version, but it also feels consistent with what they made in 1999. That team, I am confident that they can do something very similar for Tales of the Arabian Nights. If they're able to make it a high quality, high reliable game with that presentation, they will have a hit on their hands. I'm just concerned that I have not seen a reliable marketing push for this, which makes me wonder if they have a plan. I'm hoping they do, but I don't see it. I think they do.
    40:06
    Yeah, I agree with you. I think I'm excited for this, and we'll see what happens. You know what I'm saying?
    40:14
    Not really much on the CGC front besides what we just kind of discussed. I think they're going to be pretty much like CGC with play mechanics. I think play mechanics is going to be getting the licensing, developing the games, and then CGC is just going to make it for them. Especially with Halo. Halo is definitely a license that Play Mechanics has dealt with before. Right. So, I mean, I'm hoping that those games are going to translate well.
    40:41
    It always feels like you're getting a suboptimal version of something because it's a totally different feeling to play pinball versus playing video games. But hey, we've always asked, hey, Nintendo, please license your video games so we can play. So if it's done well, then I think it could be great.
    41:04
    Should have a grunt with his head up in the way of the ramp. And then when you hit the ball, it takes out his head and then confetti pops out and it does the birthday party. Yay! That would be interesting. You know what?
    41:17
    While we're at it, why don't we have a Mortal Kombat pinball machine? That is true. It was originally Bally Midway. It's not uncommon to see those.
    41:27
    Steve Ritchie was one of the voices in Mortal Kombat. Yeah, he was Shao Kahn. Yeah. For at least the first one. Yeah. So, I don't know. So, CGC not really much up to anything. Ooh, American Pinball. They are shipping Houdinis as we speak.
    41:45
    Okay. Does that not excite you? Do you not want a Houdini? Well, okay, I'm not sure what American Pinball is trying to do, and we would love to have them on the show because I want to talk to them and find out what their philosophy is. It seemed like they came out with a bang and they came out with Houdini, which the original one looked great, and then there was obviously a lot of issues, and so they rebooted it, and they made a good game. It a tight game and a difficult difficult shooter but hey it Houdini so it like it shouldn be super easy so it made sense They seem to kind of stumble and just not figure out who they were or what their market was Even in the second and third iteration with completely new ownership and going a little bit back to the well and to do Houdini, I'm hoping there's at least enough demand that people want that. I know they're trying. I know they have so many supply parts for Galactic Tank Force, and so they're going to try to figure out ways of cobbling those together to make a better package. I wish them well. I hope they can do it. But I'm really wondering where they're going in the future. They also have dipped their toe into the remake market. So, Josh, they announced Circus Voltaire. So, this is a two-part question. Are you interested in Circus Voltaire? One. Two, do you have confidence that American Pinball can make a good version of Circus Voltaire for you? Yes, I am definitely excited about a Circus Voltaire. It's kind of one of the first games I remember when I got into pinball. And it's just a really cool, unique game. The rules are fun. The whole circus thing is kind of cool. So as far as American though, I don't know.
    43:46
    I guess I'd have to play their Houdini, the one that's going shipping right now. Because here's the problem is, didn't they pretty much fire everyone? They may have kept the warehouse people. Yeah, it seems like a wholesale reboot. So now I will say it's undetermined at this point in my book. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Because I don't know. I'm hoping that they're able to transform this company and if they end up turning it into, hey, we're a manufacturing machine and we'll be able to crank out these remakes and we're able to make them reliable and we're able to make them a reasonable facsimile of what was produced in the 90s, then more power to them. And I really hope that that's what they end up turning out to be because there still are games from the 90s that you can tap into making. So if they can figure out ways of being the manufacturing hub and making a good product, there will be a desire out there for it.
    44:48
    But they have to prove it to me first that they are able to make a good product. Well, my question is, like, why Circus Voltaire? So the reason being is we know that Pedretti has gotten multiple licenses. They kind of announced that when they first revealed Funhaus. I think this is awesome. Just wait to see what else is to come. And it's a handful of licenses.
    45:13
    Why pass up on Circus Voltaire? Because you already had Totem? Do you feel like that's too many J-pop games? I know that Circus Voltaire is different in the fact that the DMD is actually situated in the play field. Yeah, it's underneath the playfield, yeah. Sorry, it's underneath the glass. It's in the back of the playfield, yeah. Plus the back box is different than most ones because you have to have that ball. It's interactive, yes.
    45:43
    So it's not as straightforward as what you would typically have with any other pinball machine. My other concern is why are all these companies making Bally Williams games? Is Rick just handing these licenses out to anyone that will approach him? I mean, you've got Haggis who was doing Fathom and they did.
    46:07
    They never shipped, well, I guess they shipped one of, why is it blanking? I can see the artwork, it's all black and white. The Sea Witch? Oh, Centaur. Centaur, yes, thank you. Centaur, they did Fathom. We've got CGC who did Mable Madness, Attack from Mars. You know, we've got now Pedretti making remakes. Cardona is making 2.0 kits. Tim Pinball was making 2.0 kits. American's now making Circus Voltaire. It seems to be like we're just handing them out to whoever. And you could argue the quality is varying from each one. Is there not a set standard for these? CGC set a pretty high bar in my opinion when they made those games.
    46:57
    They took forever though. If CGC made them faster, I think CGC would have been the only company doing these.
    47:07
    We're 10 years into the remakes and CGC made four of them in 10 years. I don't place this solely on their shoulders. I think you have a slow company that also had... Probably a combination. The licensure is slow also as well as approvals. I would also say though, when they started making Medieval Madness, there was a huge demand because we were just starting to get into the second golden age of pinball, which we're in right now, where great games are being made.
    47:45
    But in the 2000s, it was a wasteland. They only made like four or five games that I would consider owning today. Okay? I get you. But now there are four or five games a year that I would consider buying. So now you're competing with a Godzilla. Now you're competing with a new Star Wars game. Now you're competing with Dune. Now you're competing with Harry Potter. Sure. And unless you really have a soft spot for the remake, I think the modern games are going to be a stiffer competition. And so you're really focusing on the nostalgia, the nostalgia buyer.
    48:30
    I think so as well. And a lot of these games in the late, you know, after this spike of Adam's family and all that, they really start slowing down in quantity. And so I think there is room for these. I just find it wild that like, I don't know, I feel bad picking on anyone and being like, this is crap and this is fantastic. Okay, the Alice in Wonderland kit that you buy for $1,000. Nobody wants that. You shouldn't. They sold like a million dollars worth of those and like the Kickstarter or whatever. I don't know. Yeah, but like playfields are warping. Do you want me to pull out the Tommy Boy quote about, well, I'll take a dump in a box and label it guaranteed. It's true, but did you see the Kong R Us video, B Kong's video?
    49:20
    And he bought one of those Alice's and the middle of the playfield, because it's like a poly, it's like plastic. Yeah, isn't it warped? It's bubbled so bad that the ball, you can watch it go around the bubble. It's like Orbiter 1. Yeah.
    49:34
    Okay, but. Oh my goodness. Okay, I will point out though, having a high expectation for something that's $6,000 plus is not unreasonable. I agree. So if you're going to ask that much money from the average person, yes, there are whale collectors out there who buy anything sight unseen. That's not most of your collectors. Most of your collectors have a limited amount of space and they have to look at their money wisely and say, how can I afford the best machine for my money?
    50:12
    You got me now on the topic of this Alice in Wonderland. I want to know how many of those actually sold because was it more viable for Ninja Turtles to go that route? Because the next one, they've announced, the company that's making those, Wonderland Amusement or whatever, their next game is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles into the sewer or whatever it is, right? So how did they convince – I would assume Stern still had the license because they were still building them. Well, I wonder how exclusive it is because there has to be carve outs for whether or not it's a commercially viable game versus a home hobby project. Is someone really going to – if they really want turtles, are they going to pass up the Stern version and buy this home kit version? No, they're not. Yeah, but I would assume it's in the same realm of like you're not going to license Ninja Turtle toys to Hasbro and then Ninja Turtle toys to Playmates. I don't know who the other competitor was. That's who I remember growing up. But you just don't do two action figures. I would assume it's the same way of like Stern doesn't get to keep the license for Ninja Turtles. I would say the Venn diagram of people buying a Play Mechanics Pinball or whatever, the Wonderland Pinball machine versus buying a Stern Pinball machine, there's zero overlap in that. Yeah, but there had to have been a lot more is what I'm saying. How many Alice in Wonderland with their margins versus how many Stern sold of Ninja Turtles versus their margins? You see what I'm saying here? I get what you're saying. It seems like, yeah, it's a little bit of an overlap, but I don't see it being a critical overlap. And who knows? Maybe Stern has vaulted Turtles. They're not making it anymore. Yeah, true. Maybe the license is done.
    52:08
    I don't know. Just wild. Wild, in my opinion. Yeah. Especially, like, I don't know. I guess it may just come down to dollar and cent sometimes. But imagine having Stern's Ninja Turtles in your coffee room at your business and also Wonderland Amusements. If you have that picture, please send it to us. Yes, please. We'd love to see it.
    52:32
    All righty. What else we got here? Spooky's still making Beetlejuices. And it's still an amazing theme environment for Beetlejuice. If you're a fan, I think you'll be a fan of that game. Barrels of Fun is still producing. I think they just wrapped up Dune and they're working on Winchester. And if I remember correctly, they said they should be wrapping up Winchester in September-ish time. I will say I did not buy a Winchester because it was sold out within 48 hours. I am definitely going to pick up Carl's next game because I want to play it. I was heavily considering Winchester. And it's funny because they announced on Tuesday before Expo, I said, Zach, I think I'm interested. I just really want to go play this game. By the time I played it at Expo on Thursday, it was all sold out.
    53:31
    So my philosophy, you've got to play it before you buy it. Well, okay. However, you still can buy it, Josh.
    53:40
    I'm not paying $18,000 for that. But I am saying those are unicorns. I think that pretty much does it for everything on our list. There's not really many other companies doing anything at the moment. A lot of them are saying hush hush. I guess we could hurry and throw out there. Multimorphic did just announce today.
    53:57
    One of the biggest complaints is the button configuration on the side. You can now buy different button configurations for your game. And then the Flipper Max. There's some new plates to help kind of keep a little more sturdier in the game. Hey, they're slowly implementing, I guess, updates to their game system. So that's what you want. You want them to keep working on it. No, I totally agree. And I think that I really do think that they are doing really good. And I think it is good for them that they held off instead of showing in March. I know that they say that TPF was where they stake their flag. But when you're holding off to sell games like six to eight months later or to actually ship them out, it's hard to keep people. It's better when you announce games that you can sell them right then. People have very short attention spans. Yep. Yep, I agree. So I think that does it for us, Scott.
    54:56
    If you want to get a hold of us, we're LoserkidPinballPodcast at gmail.com. On all the socials at LoserkidPinball. If you want some Silver Ball swag, Loser Kid Pinball, Metallica shirt, or maybe a Funhouse shirt with Scott and I's face on it pointing at you, hit us up. We're also doing Patreon. We're also doing the Ultimate Spooky Game right now because that was highly requested. What's funny is Jersey Jax actually kind of followed the pin side ratings pretty closely. Those have went out the window with this one. Because here's the thing, like Looney Tunes and TNA are like 6th and 8th on the list, and I don't understand how they are lower than some of the other games above them. So first round's going on right now. Go vote. It's free to vote. Go sign up. Whatever.
    55:41
    Scott, give us our last words. Yeah, no, definitely. I want to know what you guys are looking for. I want to know what you guys are looking forward to in the games. And, okay, validate me. Is having, like, a really cool moment in a game? Is that a game breaker if your expectation is pulled out? But I'm really curious because I think it's a qualified maybe. So let me know on that.
    56:20
    Thank you.