Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Ep 46: GNR & AIQ

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 24m·analyzed·Oct 17, 2020
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Loser Kid Ep 46 covers new machine releases, custom code updates, Expo news, and shocking true crime stories.

Summary

The Loser Kid Pinball Podcast hosts discuss recent pinball acquisitions, the Avengers Infinity Quest and Guns N' Roses releases, custom code modifications for Jurassic Park and TMNT, community news from the Pinball Expo, and two remarkable personal stories involving a BYU professor's murder and a high school acquaintance's arrest for that same crime.

Key Claims

  • Avengers Infinity Quest is currently out and available for purchase

    high confidence · Josh mentions 'Avengers premiums come out' and discusses receiving it

  • Guns N' Roses pinball machine is about to or has recently been released

    high confidence · Josh lists 'Guns and Roses' alongside Avengers as machines people have been seeing

  • CGC (Chicago Gaming Company) may be announcing a new machine soon

    medium confidence · Josh states 'We're still on the cusp of maybe I don't know CGC coming out with something'

  • Custom code for Jurassic Park that replaces animations with movie clips has been released and is available on Pinside

    high confidence · Josh describes watching streams of the code and directing people to find it on Pinside under 'movie clip Jurassic Park thread'

  • Attack from Mars sold within 1 hour of being posted online

    high confidence · Josh states 'i posted it at what 9 10 on like a thursday or friday night and it was sold by 10 o'clock that night'

  • Used pinball machine prices are experiencing significant increases

    high confidence · Josh: 'man prices are going crazy right now for the used market on pinball machines it's ridiculous'

  • Pinball Expo is occurring but has not revealed major new machine announcements yet (as of Friday evening)

    medium confidence · Scott: 'we are recording Friday night, and they've just been – Expo is just kind of starting today' and 'I haven't noticed any big announcements from Expo yet'

  • Pinball Circus has been silent for 2-3 years regarding their Kingpin machine

    high confidence · Josh: 'Whatever happened to the Pinball Circus people? They had Mafia ready to go like a year ago... we haven't heard anything for two, three years now'

Notable Quotes

  • “I felt that the way they did Jurassic Park was brilliant and just it was kind of a free flow of, yes, you're trying to work to the visitor center. and then you're trying to run from the visitor center. But it's not the same generic thing.”

    Josh @ ~mid-episode during Jurassic Park discussion — Shows appreciation for theme integration in Jurassic Park vs. typical movie-following designs like Ghostbusters

  • “the only time i'm looking at the screen is when the ball stops and it starts an episode or when it finishes an episode and those are so quick or i skip them that it doesn't really matter”

    Josh @ ~custom code discussion — Reflects casual player perspective on screen-based content vs. serious players who value movie clips

  • “selling is the hardest part for me”

    Scott @ ~early episode personal update — Recurring theme in pinball collecting community about emotional attachment to machines

  • “i think it just shows that pinball is hard. And when you're trying to build something, even like an established one, there's capital involved.”

    Josh @ ~Pinball Circus/Kingpin discussion — Industry insight about challenges facing smaller manufacturers

  • “the shots are feel so good in that they're they're kind of where you feel like they should be”

    Josh @ ~Avengers gameplay discussion — Positive assessment of shot design on Avengers machine

  • “dude these are two decent games i mean this is early late 70s early 90s or 80s and and they're good games”

    Josh @ ~Future Spa and Black Knight acquisition story — Appreciation for classic era machines (Future Spa and Black Knight)

  • “if you ever need it, I will kill someone for you but the caveat is if i get caught you go down with me”

    Marty Bond (referenced) @ ~high school CAD Key story — Chilling quote that later proved prescient when Marty Bond was arrested for murder

  • “it's hard to interact with people when your event is solely for people to interact with each other”

Entities

Josh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonZach MinneypersonBrian AllenpersonBrad HunterpersonJeff PattersonpersonTimothy PurcellpersonTim Law 79personTom and Tonyperson

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Avengers Infinity Quest and Guns N' Roses have been released and are available for purchase

    high · Josh: 'If you haven't been living under a rock You have seen that Avengers premiums come out Avengers Infinity Quest Guns and Roses'

  • ?

    code_update: Custom fan-made code for Jurassic Park replaces all animations with movie clips and adds orchestral music. Available on Pinside. Works for Pro and LE versions.

    high · Josh: 'someone had dropped new code that took all the animations and put in the movie clips... look up it's just like movie clip Jurassic Park thread and he's done it for the premium le and one for the pro'

  • $

    market_signal: Used pinball machine prices are experiencing rapid increases, with machines selling almost immediately after listing

    high · Josh: 'prices are going crazy right now for the used market on pinball machines it's ridiculous' and 'i posted it at what 9 10 on like a thursday or friday night and it was sold by 10 o'clock that night'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Listeners are engaging deeply with podcast content, with one listener driving 5 hours listening to Loser Kid episodes, leading to them purchasing a pinball machine

    medium · Josh: 'someone in the chat was like, is this the Loser Kids... I love your show. I had to go pick up a pinball machine. It was a five-hour round trip.'

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Expo is currently ongoing with manufacturer booths. Streaming has drawn 100-150 direct viewers plus additional viewers through secondary platforms like Deadflip. No major new machine announcements reported as of Friday evening.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.254

0:00
hey thanks for tuning in to loser kid pinball podcast this is episode number 36 46 46 yeah 36 with me my co-captain as always scott larson hey scott and let's talk about the friends of the podcast i'll i'll shoot out a couple if i miss a couple you let me know So first and foremost If you haven't been living under a rock You have seen that Avengers premiums come out Avengers Infinity Quest Guns and Roses We're still on the cusp of maybe I don't know CGC coming out with something And if you're looking for that new game Go to Flippin' Out Zach Minney and Nicole Minney Will get you taken care of They've got some wonderful machines there and uh i've already i've got a pro jurassic park coming on the way this this next week uh nice zach's got yeah zach's got me taken care of i'm very happy with the service he's gotten me taken care of on everything uh you know i had some issues with my turtles play field and he got it resolved i mean i'm excited great customer service um we've got brian allen with fly land designs if you haven't checked out his artwork you should go check it out he just came out with some new uh art blades for attack from mars and for monster bash and they look amazing coupled with his trans lights yes so go check those out i messaged him and said you needed it for medieval madness because i will put him in my game so i agree and then brad hunter with lit frames that man's lit frames look fantastic i got mine on the wall right here got turned on with the Total Nuclear Annihilation. Sorry, Total Annihilation. Wait. Fudge. Total Nuclear Annihilation. Nuclear. Yes.
2:01
Annihilation in it, and it looks fantastic. This Week in Pinball. If you're looking for your updated news, you want all the scoops up front, go to This Week in Pinball. Very non-biased, wonderful stuff. So, if you're looking for that newsworthy stuff. You don't really want to scan Pinside. Jeff Patterson does all the scanning for you and gives you the update on Mondays, Tuesdays, what is it, Thursdays now? It seems like he's always updating that stuff. He seems to always be doing stuff.
2:32

Josh @ ~Expo discussion — Commentary on why remote streaming of in-person events doesn't translate well

Don't Panic Flip
person
Keith Elwinperson
Kate Martinperson
Josh Cooglerperson
Steve Ritchieperson
Tommyperson
Marty Bondperson
Avengers Infinity Questgame
Guns N' Rosesgame
Jurassic Parkgame
Pinball Expoevent
Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
This Week in Pinballproduct
Stern Pinballcompany
Pinball Circuscompany
BYU (Brigham Young University)organization

high · Josh: 'they're still good they're getting 100-150 viewers is what I've been watching... there's nothing been revealed' and 'Expo is just kind of starting today'

  • ?

    business_signal: Pinball Circus has been silent for 2-3 years on their announced Kingpin machine, illustrating capital and operational challenges for smaller manufacturers

    medium · Josh: 'Whatever happened to Kingpin... we haven't heard anything for two, three years now' and 'pinball is hard... when you're trying to build something... there's capital involved'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Avengers features well-designed ramps with consistent shot feedback, particularly a banana ramp that enables repeatable upper flipper play and creates a smoother ball response similar to Jurassic Park's shot design

    medium · Josh: 'one of the ramps is really well-designed... it comes and it makes kind of like a Nike swoosh and drops above the flipper... it gives you a consistent shot... the shots are feel so good'

  • ?

    product_concern: Discussion of upper flipper shot difficulty on Jurassic Park, noting that fast-moving balls and blind flipping requirements make certain shots inconsistent

    medium · Josh: 'it's usually the ball is going screaming fast past it... you're just trying to blindly flip as fast as you can... it usually doesn't really go that easily'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Collection churn and emotional attachment patterns documented: Scott sold X-Men, Josh sold Monster Bash and Attack from Mars, and flipped Lethal Weapon and Flintstones for profit within weeks

    high · Scott: 'selling is the hardest part for me' and Josh: 'I bought... Lethal Weapon and Flintstones... sold them quick and without hesitation'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Custom code adoption discussion indicates location operators (Tommy from This Flippin' Podcast) are interested in deploying custom code to refresh games and drive repeat play

    medium · Josh: 'Tommy with This Flippin' Podcast, I think he's concerned getting it for location just because when you change something up a little bit it reignites people wanting to play it'

  • ?

    community_signal: Podcast hosts connected with new players through the show, validating community impact and demonstrating peer-to-peer knowledge transfer within pinball ecosystem

    medium · Josh: 'I got acquainted through him through just through the podcast... Tony's been kind of a good friend that I've met through the podcast'

    • All things pinball. Who else we got here, Scott? A good friend, Timothy Purcell, he has his blog, thepinballloft.com and he got an Avengers. Actually, I talked him into an Avengers. I tipped him off that it was going to be an elwynn and a yeti game and so he got in on the le action so you can go and read his review on the adventures le and see what he thinks about it after obviously we talk about it tonight heck yes and that that brings us to a good point let's talk about what's been going on our pinball lives because we've done a couple interviews these last couple weeks and we haven't really talked about what we've been doing uh with pinball personally so what's been going on with you scott Well, you know what? So I did have a small unboxing party. We are spiking Corona wise in Utah. And so it seems a common thread is if there's food involved. But I was having people come over to help me move something. So I, you know, I was trying to have food. So we cooked the food, but we did wear masks and opened up Avengers. I brought it downstairs to my basement down the stairs of death. And then we did food, but I had hands sanitizer at the beginning. And so they would do that because obviously you're going to touch the same spoon and utensils and serving things all the way down. So that was fun. I had a few people come out and help me move that. Also, X-Men is going away. I think emotionally I've just gone through X-Men and there's not really much else I'm going to do with that game so there's only so much space and I think that's part of the pinball journey is being able to figure out how to buy and sell selling is the hardest part for me as I've said before and yeah so I really have three new games well three relatively new games that I still have yet to scratch the surface on code I have Jurassic Park I have Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and I have Infinity Quest. And that's really my pinball update. What about you, Josh?
    4:41
    So I just got a random bug the other day, and I decided it's time. It's time to get rid of Attack from Mars.
    4:50
    I'm kind of like you where what needs to stay, what needs to go, or you're emotionally done with it. Attack from Mars took on the role of Grail pin for a long time for me, along with Medieval Madness. And I had a Revenge for Mars for the longest time. And if you've never played a Revenge for Mars, besides the screen that comes down onto the play field, there's not really much difference because, I mean, besides it being a little smaller, it's flipped. It's just a mirrored play field. So like Tron is to X-Men. But you get kind of the same feel of it. And I've enjoyed it. I've had my Attack for Mars for almost three years now. And so I have a really small collection. And I sold Monster Bash back in June to get Turtles. I got some money left over and I'm like you know what let's get rid of Attack from Mars I got the JP Pro coming and I've got Avengers Premium coming and so I go for my 3-4 collection and then I bought I don't know if we talked about this but I got a lethal weapon and a Flintstones within that time too within the last couple months bought them with just the sole intention of selling them I know that's terrible of me but I figured I'd never played these games I heard they're fantastic I'll keep them for a couple weeks then I'll put them up for sale and they sold quick and without hesitation and people jumped on them and so they're both gone now uh both families that got them are very happy with them i think it's because man prices are going crazy right now for the used market on pinball machines it's ridiculous which is why i really need to jump on it and list a few of my games so like attack from mars you helped me sell it uh i posted it at what 9 10 on like a thursday or friday night and it was sold by 10 o'clock that night yeah and actually this is a friend who i've uh gotten to know uh he's a he's a new guy in the pinball uh in the pinball field he lives close to us but i kind of got acquainted through him through just through the podcast, actually. So it was it was kind of fun that we were able to do it. It's Tom and Tony. And it just it just works out really well that Tony Tony's been kind of a good friend that I've met through the podcast. And we've been talking a lot and he's he's on the medical side. And so we have a little common thing. And he said his friend Tom was really interested in getting into pinball and he talked him into buying a Jurassic Park premium. So we had been messaging back and forth, but we really hadn't actually gotten together since, uh, you know, COVID happened and I really wasn't doing anything all summer. So it was the first time for him to come out, but yeah, it was Tom who really he's going through the growing, um, the growing rocket ship of collecting. And so I think he's bought about, uh, four or five games this year uh he picked up he picked up wizard of oz too by the way dang nice so i was like he's just buying the expensive pins apparently well and a couple other things too um i i found i don't know if i subscribed to him or followed them a while ago but have you ever heard of don't panic flip no so they are they are a streaming channel and they've teamed up with tps And so they stream via TPN now.
    8:18
    I honestly don't know the gentleman's name, but they're fun to watch. And it was funny because I was sitting there. We're chit-chatting. And someone in the chat was like, is this the Loser Kids from Loser Kid Pinball Podcast? And I was like, yeah. And the gentleman's like, I love your show. I had to go pick up a pinball machine. It was a five-hour round trip. So for five hours straight, that's all I listened to was Loser Kid. And I felt very appreciative of that. That was really cool. I want to apologize for, I hope he didn't drive off the road as we lulled him to sleep. We don't have quite the energy level of most of the pinball podcasts out there. But one of the reasons I checked them out is I got my new JP Pro coming. And this last week, someone had dropped new code that took all the animations and put in the movie clips. And they added some of the orchestra music into there as well. and I was like this code I've got to see this code and so don't panic flip's been streaming it and anonymous if you haven't checked either either one of them out you can go to their past twitch streams and they've they've streamed them both and then if you want to get the code it's on pin side I can't remember exactly the thread but look up it's just like movie clip Jurassic Park thread and he's done it for the premium le and one for the pro and so very nice very nice gentleman And we talked and he got me taken care of. Oh, nice. Okay, so let's give him a shout out. My problem is I really don't.
    9:50
    I'm more likely to listen to a podcast than I am to listen to watch a Twitch stream or something like that because my kids are usually all over me when I get home. So let's give them a shout out again, please.
    10:02
    I'm trying to figure out who the – his name is Tim. He goes by Tim Law 79 on Pinside. So T-I-M-L-A-H-79. Just tell him you're interested in the JP code. He'll get you taken care of. I would actually be interested. Like I wonder if it works for the LE. I actually – It does, yes. Here's the funny thing. I am not as bothered by not having the assets in the screen.
    10:35
    I've realized that theme is a big part for me, But I didn't feel that Jurassic Park was missing anything because I felt that it was the perfect approach of being involved in the movie without being just following the same path. You know, that's the the Ghostbusters problem, right? Where, yeah, OK, who brought the dog? And then you're just all you're doing is marching through the movie. I felt that the way they did Jurassic Park was brilliant and just it was kind of a free flow of, yes, you're trying to work to the visitor center. and then you're trying to run from the visitor center. But it's not the same generic thing. So I didn't feel like I missed anything. And I would even say the same thing about the new custom code for Turtles where they've taken the clips from the old show and put them in there. I don't feel like I've missed anything, but maybe that's just, you know, some people it's a big deal and some people it's not. I guess it's not a big deal for me, but I'd be interested in trying it out. What do you think, Josh? uh i'd definitely say go watch it first see what your thoughts are i'm kind of the same way um i i've been playing my turtles a lot and i've never converted over to the the tv show clips even though they're integrated really really well and it's because really the only time i'm looking at the screen is when the ball stops and it starts an episode or when it finishes an episode and those are so quick or i skip them that it doesn't really matter i very rarely look at the screen besides the fact of, you know, when Pizza Parlor Multiball starts and it tells you, hey, this is the toppings you've got.
    12:13
    But like with Jurassic Park in that case, it shows you movie clips, but it's also integrated with the original animations because you still need the map. You still need to see, like, catching the dinosaurs and stuff like that. And so it can't do that all from the movie. And so it's integrated really well from what I could tell. People are loving it. I know Tommy with This Flippin' Podcast, I think he's concerned getting it for location just because when you change something up a little bit it reignites people wanting to play it sure that's fine I get it and a lot of people everyone I've talked to has just ranted and raved about it they love it and so like I said if you want to check it out I know he has some disclaimers or something I don't know go talk to him the bottom line is it has to be basically a custom fan project he can't take money from it And he's a copyright Frenchman. And yeah, it's usually a passion project just to do some fun stuff. So yeah. And that's what it is. We're always happy to find your own thing. Like I put an alternate back glass in my medieval madness because I just wanted to have it for fun. So yeah. Yep. So and I mean, that's pretty much my pinball for the last couple of weeks. It's I don't know. It's been fun. Like, oh, and I just remembered I was doing a job. So we have, I live in the biggest city in our, oh, we call it the Tri-County area, but it covers a little bit more because we're right on the Colorado border. I went across the border to a town called Rangeley and I ran into, we don't really call them competitors around here because there's enough work for everyone. And so if you're respecting of that person, you know, they're just another person you see at the warehouse when you go to pick up supplies. well i ran into uh another hvac guy and i got taught we got talking pinball and he's like you work on those i said yeah and he's like really he's like i got two in my shop you want to come take a look at him and i said sure let's go take a look and so we went and looked at him and he collects cars that's his thing what happened was he did a job and the guy couldn't pay the guy was moving and he said hey i've got a couple pinball machines in my garage or in my storage you can have them if they will you know take care of the rest of the price and so we got in there and i'm always thinking it's gonna be some like em that's not no one wants you know and he had a future spa and a black knight sitting there and so i looked i looked at him like dude these are two decent games i mean this is early late 70s early 90s or 80s and and they're good games and he said well if you help me fix them up you can keep one and i'll have the other wow okay i'm like sold so he's actually moved to vernal the bigger city and so i'm going to help him move them move them over this week and uh i'm going to convince him to let me have the black knight because not because it's worth more but i have a family-friendly home have you seen future spa okay actually i've never played a future spa so tell me about how awesome it is fantastic gameplay terrible artwork in my opinion you've got a bunch of people working out in bikinis and speedos and then for some odd reason the artist painted himself on the back glass butt naked but he's got water covering him watching a woman shower that's kind of creepy it is kind of creepy and i didn't know this till kate martin our friend kate uh had posted i can't remember she posted this it was but she showed the pitcher and said that was the artist that's staring at the girl showering i'm like why would you do that hey 70s were a different time right you know it's it's one of those where i think you can recognize the history of pinball and i guess kind of accept it for what it was but also i would you know this will get to this will get to be a later conversation is that i would think that we've kind of moved on into i would say a modern interpretation of what's appropriate and what's not so yep i agree yeah so well let's let's move on really quick i want to talk about people okay one thing is totally interesting is like the pinball expo is going on right now oh yeah yeah yeah okay i have been so busy at work this week that i have not been able to tune in at all for anything so josh is there anything that you know that's like i i would just kind of glancing through everything i'm like i really wish that i knew more about this but i just have been so busy i don't know honestly every time i tune in it's it's just two dudes sitting there talking about pinball it's it's almost like a live stream of a podcast so you're saying it's super boring to listen to two dudes talking about pinball maybe i don't know no they've been good They've been good. I mean they've had – You are a show right now.
    17:09
    No, what I'm saying is they've been good. They had American Pinball on, Josh Coogler, and I think Joe Balser, and I can't remember who else was there. But they all sat there and chit-chatted. The problem is I've been watching via like Deadflip and other people that are watching with it. And so it doesn't help when you have a running commentary along with what's going on. So I guess it's like if me and you were talking while our audience that's listening is like talking to each other saying, hey, these guys are idiots and – You know, I don't know. It's just kind of hard. It's kind of hard to get engaged. I guess I'll put it that way. At least if you're listening to us talk, then we're kind of giving you a recap and maybe our take on it. But it's it's not the same. And I feel bad for them because I'm glad that they're trying to do this because this is something that's interesting.
    18:03
    But maybe it's it's hard to get the same sort of vibe because when you're attending in person, it's it's fun because you're seeing friends. It's a social thing. And if you're streaming it, it's it's different. I totally agree I think you've hit the nail right on the head it's hard to interact with people when your event is solely for people to interact with each other and so the numbers haven't been, they're still good they're getting 100-150 viewers is what I've been watching and that's not including the people watching via deadflip and all those that are restreaming it via their stream as well it would be nice, I will go in and check out some of the extra stuff.
    18:49
    Cool. And I haven't noticed any big announcements from Expo yet. I could be entirely wrong and people are like, dude. But we are recording Friday night, and they've just been – Expo is just kind of starting today. So they've done the last two nights, but from my understanding, there's nothing been revealed. Because we still might have a CGC reveal. We might have – I can't remember who else is – who's on the list. So definitely not spooky. Yeah, I was looking at everything. So tomorrow I'm looking at Tilt, Haggis, Pinball Arcade, Borg, and now the Borg. Yeah, so Steve Ritchie is talking. So I think they're doing as good as they possibly can.
    19:37
    That reminds me. Whatever happened to the Pinball Circus people? They had Mafia ready to go like a year ago. Not Mafia. What is it? The one that Mark Ritchie made. It's the Capcom game. Yeah. Kingpin. Yes. Like whatever happened to Kingpin and they're also going to do Pinball Circus. And then like we haven't heard anything for two, three years now. You know, I think it just shows that pinball is hard. And when you're trying to build something, even like an established one, there's capital involved. and when you're trying to do something especially like a two-man operation which it seems like it is it's kind of hard when it's your hobby uh i mean even uh you know keith and randy they were doing uh they were in archer in their spare time and it was like four years just and that was just a kind of a whitewood with their you know their own way of doing it but it's yeah yeah well you're talking about keith has made pinball easy man he's cranking those out once a year yeah i know crazy right yeah yeah so from our last episode with zombie yeti people have messaged us about the byu professor story and i decided we might as well just to tell this on air because it's kind of a crazy story from my perspective i i didn't know that you actually he was one of your professors and so uh kind of interesting so i want you to start the story and then i take it from where we discussed And I have not actually told Scott this story So everything he hears is first time Yeah So I did mechanical engineering at BYU and one of my professors, he taught solid state. Basically, he was a steel guy. So if you are ever really bored, you can look at a phase diagram of steel and you will actually understand why steel is so complex and it depends on um it depends on how it's cooled and the temperature and how long it's there and it really uh does you know in the can the temperature and the carbon weight and so there's like a crazy amount of uh of physical chemistry that goes into how steel is the quality steel so that's a long answer to say that it's that that was the entire class is talking about how to use steel for for different things and he was the professor he was kind of a interesting guy though um he was one of these guys who was one of these older professors who had been there for a long time and had a lot of interesting views on life and a little bit more of a, I guess, kind of out there. I don't want to say like a he was a country boy, I guess. But, you know, it was always one of those things where you're kind of on the fringe of what a standard, I don't want to say normal, but I'll just say like a standard interpretation of, of laws and, uh, life and the stability of the government would be like, I don't want to call, I don't want to call him a conspiracy theorist, but he seemed a little bit kind of one of those, uh, you know, make sure you're eccentric. Yeah. Okay. I'll put it out eccentric. And so just randomly um i found out like 10 years later that i saw in the news that he was killed he had his throat slit and his son was a a drug he had a lot of history with drugs and so okay the cops thought that his son was involved uh for money or something and so So they interviewed him, and he said, no, there were two other guys that were there. And they said, everyone says there's always two other guys. And so they put him in jail, and he was in jail for about a year. And then later I found out that Vernal teased into it, and apparently this guy had a really exotic gun collection. and yes that and at least the story that i heard that i'm sure you'll be able to fill the end of the story is that they arrested these guys from bernal who ended up actually tying him up and killing him and stealing his guns and so yes so they let the guys uh the son and his wife or girlfriend out of jail but it was just one of those things that just seemed a little bit out Tiger King. So I don't know. That's pretty much all I heard about the story, but I just thought it was just so bizarre. So our high school here doesn't have a lot of money. We still get good money and our high school is big, but I took CAD key. For those that have never done CAD key, you get to design stuff. Actually, they do it in pinball. You design stuff and then you can actually print it out 3D. And we didn't have enough computers, so we had to double up on partners. And I doubled up with a gentleman named Marty Bond. And Marty was never really at school. And I really enjoyed doing CAD Key. It came really easy to me. I don't know what it was, but I was able to whip stuff out really quick. And we only had half the work for the semester because we had to split the computer and the teacher couldn't do a full work semester on us. And so he never showed up, never showed up. So I did all of his work on top of my work. and he showed up one day freaking out he's he's already following his other classes he's right he's gonna fail this class i do i told him dude just calm down calm down like i've already done all your work don't worry about it he's like you're you're joking me and i said no like i had nothing else to do this was back before smartphones so a lot of you can relate i had literally nothing else to do beside read books and may do homework from other classes and so i just did his work because it it was easy and so he said josh if you ever need it i'm planning on becoming an assassin when i grow up and if you ever need me to i will kill someone for you but the caveat is if i get caught you go down with me and we kind of laughed about it right like i'm like whatever like no one no one ever seriously grows up to be an assassin right like it's not what you do with your life. And so fast forward a few years later, and I run into Marty in Walmart. And we get reminiscent about the old days in high school and whatnot. And I bring up this part of the story. I say, hey, you remember when you said you'd kill anyone for me? It's on the house because I did all that homework for you. And if I ever need it, I chuckled. And he gave me this really nervous laugh and he's like well i gotta get going and he left it was even two months later they arrested him and another guy for the murder of the professor and here i am and and like you said they took the son and the girlfriend into jail because they thought it was them so he had been running around for at least six months he'd already murdered this dude and hadn't been caught yet and here i'm joking with a murderer about killing people yeah that's kind of messed up yeah that's that's the end of my story so wow needless to say i haven't talked to him since then and that's probably for the best but it always made me laugh because like do you ever listen to dane cook do you remember that comedian from 2000s yeah apparently the guy that got accused of stealing a lot of jokes from other comedians that guy so he had a joke where he said that there's always that one guy at work that you never know if he's going to come to work with a shotgun the next day so always come to work with the snickers and give him a snicker so that way when he actually does show up with the shotgun he gets to your get to your cubo cubicle go oh thanks for the snickers and he he keeps on going and so i feel like this was my i gave the dude the snickers so i could live kind of thing either that or he's like dude this guy I know they're going to kill people. So the fact that he said, when I grow up, I want to be, it does seem straight out of gross point blank. You know, when he goes back for his reunion, people are like, yeah, what are you doing? He's like, I'm a professional killer. Like, do you get dental? Do you get dental with that?
    28:29
    Yeah. Cause no one actually thinks it's serious. Cause that's crazy. Well, I never took him seriously because he joked about either being an assassin or a porn star. So seriously, how can you, How can you take someone seriously like that? You know, it sounds like one of those 70s B movies right there. He's an assassin porn star. Wow. That is crazy. But I hope that appeases your guys' appetite about the BYU professor story. Oh, yeah. And the sad thing is I think that this guy was a super nice guy, but I think it was kind of, you know, You know, when you get really deep into a strange hobby and having exotic guns, like maybe weaponry, you may want to be careful about who you're associating with. Yeah, I agree. Just a pro tip, you know, just find out. Well, first off, ask if you're a killer and they have to, by law, answer you appropriately. And, you know, so, geez, that is nuts. yeah what they had done they they'd killed him they took all his guns we have a place here called remember the main it's it's a a park but it's up a canyon and so it's you guys have one there by lehigh it's it's down provo canyon similar to that you're in the canyon next to the river kind of thing and so they taken they taken their guns up to remember the main and buried them there and they were going to leave them there until everything kind of cooled off and and went away and they never got the opportunity. They got caught and they went and uncovered the guns up there. Remember the main. So yeah, I don't think this guy was very smart and just kind of, no, that's okay. So he did have an accomplice, but the accomplice ratted out and told he said it was all Marty's idea. Yeah. So but that's it. That's the story. Wow. Okay. All right. Sounds crazy.
    30:20
    So let's move on. You got your avengers i want to know how this plays like people are dying to know how avengers plays so i truly feel that keith was setting out and we really will we'll reach out to keith and we'd love to have him on uh maybe when it's uh getting to 1.0 code so he can talk we had jurassic park when it was 1.0 code so it was actually great because we were able to talk about the nuances of everything this feels like he's going for an epic lord of the rings journey um if you watched he posted on facebook one time uh about the outlanes and he says he pointed to the screw and he's like don't move this and i was like huh that's interesting because it's actually stock it comes with the outlands kind of closed off yes so you can have a longer game and i don't know what he's figured out with his shots but with jurassic park i felt like there's the the left ramp which is super easy to hit the right ramp is still kind of hard for me to hit but i can get it and that uh raptor tower is it's still kind of a luck shot for me um between Raptor and O shot. Yeah. It's just, uh, it's just kind of, uh, you know, it's just hard because this is the challenge with upper flippers is that it's usually the ball is going screaming fast past it, that you're just trying to blindly flip as fast as you can to time it. And it usually doesn't really go that, that easily. Um, and that could be a design issue that could be designed to be able to say, well, it's a challenging shot and you need to earn it. Or you could say that it's, um, that maybe there's a way that you could make that upper flipper more, uh, repeatable. So on Avengers, one of the ramps is really well-designed. It's the banana ramp that you shoot and it goes up and it comes and it makes kind of like a Nike swoosh and drops above the flipper but it starts rolling almost like uh in jurassic park where the up post on the left flipper how it goes up and it stalls the ball and then it starts rolling so it gives you a consistent shot so you have that and so the you can do like multiple multiple shots up there and it's just really interesting that you can use the upper flipper and the upper flipper is quite uh it feels just like another flipper uh the shots are feel so good in that they're they're kind of where you feel like they should be and i know that they move shots around all the time but at least the way i play it it feels like when i'm trying to hit the avengers tower i can hit it almost every time and if i'm trying to hit the um the captain marvel ramp i can hit it about every time so it just feels like either i'm dialed into this or it's dialed in uh the it it's crazy complex and it just seems like there's so much to do in the game uh still haven't quite figured out like when you hit it in the um in the subway so you know you activate the the spinning ring the Sorcerer Supreme spinning ring, and it opens up like Circus Voltaire, and then it drops down there. But I don't know if at some point you will be able to see all the balls locked under there, but it just seems like it advances the balls right now. And maybe I haven't been playing it a lot. I actually did get a GC. Very nice. And I don't know if that's because the GCs are exceptionally low, which is entirely possible, or that not maybe all of the code is in there with the way the balls are locked in the subway. Because I think the whole point of that is to give you a visual cue on, hey, you have all these balls locked.
    34:38
    I also haven't – Keith put a video out there that said his favorite thing to do, and it has the balls that are locked up into the tower, and they were kind of locked together, like two balls dangling. and I've locked balls, but it almost seems like a virtual lock right now where I get up there and it gets it and that drops it down.
    35:01
    Well, Keith has mentioned you have to do something very specific to be able to get two balls to lock up. Okay, well, I haven't figured that out. One day when I'm as good as Keith, I'll be able to figure that out.
    35:11
    But no, it just feels like a fun game. And if you look at the lower play field, you know there are – So like Attack from Mars, how it seems like all the balls are funneled to go straight down the middle.
    35:25
    Yeah, it's it's kind of it's it's a drain monster. This doesn't feel that way. It feels like it's intended to have the ball play longer.
    35:36
    So it has that, you know, Lord of the Rings, how I'm not saying Lord of the Rings is an easy game. It's not. But the intent is to have the ball play longer because there's so much in the game that they want you to experience more. Correct, yes. If they – and conversely, when I play Turtles, Turtles is really hard. And it still is really hard for me. It's very brutal, yes. So it feels kind of nice to have that game that is – that's designed to have you explore it a lot more and to get deeper into the game. And Keith has told us that he doesn't want games to last – he said, I want you to get to the end of the game in 20 to 30 minutes. So, you know, Valinor, it takes two hours together.
    36:22
    So I feel that it really is my go to game right now going. It just feels so good. You feel like a pinball god playing this game.
    36:34
    And it may actually be kind of up there as what game do you want to play? I want to play that one. Awesome. Well, and I'm excited for this. So I decided I would watch until the actual stream. I know the LEs sold out however ridiculously fast they did. But I wanted to see actual gameplay. And after watching Keith and Raymond Davidson play, I just decided this was what I was getting. And the funny part is that stuff premiered, what, not even a week after the actual reveal trailer? Yeah. And I messaged Zach and I said, hey, I want to get a premium when we look in. And he's like, dude, like December. I'm like, we're in September, though. And he's like, yeah, premiums are ridiculous right now. And last time, I can't remember if it was Zach I talked to. We still talk to JJ at Game Exchange a lot, too. One of them said, like, premiums are out to, like, March right now. That's crazy. Like, has any other game ever had this kind of lead time?
    37:40
    I don't know. But it's great to hear that the game is doing wonderfully. I haven't heard a negative thing about it yet. It just astounds me because Jurassic Park came out a year ago, and people are like, this is amazing. I don't know how Keith does it. How is he ever going to top this? And now I look at Avengers, and with you and your positive review, and other people I've spoke to that just love it, pro, premium, everyone's loving it. And it's just like, I don't know how Keith does it. It's amazing. Yeah. Well, he's taking it new directions. so this is the reason why you need new designers you can't you know i love steve richie but you can't just have steve richie designing pinball machines for 30 years because at some point you get you're kind of chasing yourself yeah and and so if you had richie and borg and and all the people who have been doing it for a long time you kind of get in ruts and it's not it's not bad because I think they were making great games, but they tend to, you want to play it safe because you're selling pinball machines. And if you make a weird pinball machine like WWE and no one buys it, then it's a big financial hit. So I totally understand that. But it's nice to see what he and Eric are doing since they are the new guys on the block and what they're moving, And they're moving the needle on what it means to design a pinball machine.
    39:12
    No, and I agree with you. And I think the thing is, too, with Keith is he's taking old concepts and breathing new life into them. Something as simple as let's take Jurassic Park, for example. You hit so many shots, it keeps lighting them at the spinner and it gives you what is it like? I don't know if it times the spinner or what it does, but when you hit that spinner finally, you get all those points. It's fantastic. I mean, look at the bingo card. We haven't seen a bingo card in years, and I think it's because they're kind of difficult to deal with on certain games. But this way, it's just so straightforward and whatnot. It's amazing.
    39:54
    I don't know. There's just certain aspects Keith has latched onto, and it's like, well, why has no one done this and tried it this way? And I think that's just – it's great to have that in pinball now. Don't get me wrong. I love Steve Ritchie. I love Lyman Sheets. I love all those guys. I love all the designers, the coders and stuff, but I feel like Keith and his team is taking a new direction, and it's wonderful. It's wonderful to see. I think it's also inspiring the other guys too. Yes. And it's one of those where, you know, you've seen teams where you get a new guy on, you're like, you know what, I can do that or I can do something else. And so it really does push them. So I think it's good.
    40:34
    Well, let's take Turtles, for example, you know, because I'm pretty for sure Keith helped a little bit. You know, they all help. They all go up to the machine and say, hey, this is what you can do. But Turtles does feel different from a Borg. I mean, it still plays like a Borg. It's fast. But I just I don't look at Turtles and go, yeah, it's Tron. Yeah, that's Metallica. Because a lot of people are afraid of that. I know when we talked about Turtles a year and a half ago, people were like, well, we don't want it to be Metallica Guardians of the Galaxy or whatever. We want something fresh and new. And I feel like it is that with Turtles. It's brutal. It's fast. It kicks you in the teeth, but it's fun. Yeah.
    41:14
    Speaking of new and fresh, then we just had Guns N' Roses released. Holy crap. Where do we even start with this? Where do you want to start with it? Okay, I'm going to start with the best PR release on a pinball machine so far. I agree. Now, I will say that also it helps that you have an iconic soundtrack like Guns N' Roses being able to play in the background. And so you have the model playing the game, and she's having a great time, and she's dancing to Welcome to the Jungle. and yeah it it does make it really good and so and i wouldn't be surprised if there was if they were able to be using some sort of i don't know some sort of assistance or suggestions from guns and roses because they're in the promotion business uh to be able to get something together but that trailer was great and i thought that stern had done a great job up till now and I think JJP took it to a next level on this one i agree and i want to i want to uh commend kim cronwell um and all those that are involved with this i mean i i don know if it strictly because of kim like you said i don't know if it's because you know guns and roses have some pr presence and whatnot slash has been very involved with this project uh it just from day one i feel like this is definitely set a new standard of the way that pinball machines should be revealed and that's just me so and it's the really cool part is is the community involvement in it how hard is it to call it buffalo and say hey we know that you've bought all of our games we know you're going to buy this one we'll give you a couple days lead time you won't be able to like because ken kevin said he hadn't seen this game he the first time he saw it was when he unboxed it but he set it up and he did what was hour and a half of play and you've got uh the super awesome pinball show doing the interview with eric minyer and straight down the middle coming in to do the tour or the uh the factory going through with eric and keith and all them talking about this game it's just the the marketing for this was spot on i think they attempted this with willie wonka but it came and it just didn't hit the mark but this time it was spot on and and congratulations my hats is off to you guys ken you did a fantastic job yeah it's the it's the natural progression right uh we've seen pulling off the sheet at expos okay come up and play it okay that's fun um but everybody's kind of breaking shots and they're trying to figure out games and all that this is uh hey and it was also hey we have them buy them yep so that that's that's what you need to do that that that is how modern pinball manufacturing has to be it's hey by the way this is available right now go get it what's crazy to me is is they've never had a ce sell out correct besides they never fulfilled all the pirates like no they did pirates sold out but do you count that because they they stopped like they they had all those cancellations and then they stopped selling them and stuff like that they stopped did they sell out this i still think they sold out the ce but i could i could be wrong but i know that dialed in kind of languished along and that didn't have the same thing um will they want us the same way yeah it's certainly having that iconic thing that and people like the rock experience they they like that and so i was okay I was surprised because I have bought machines that are around $10,000.
    45:08
    And I recognize that I can sell them along when I'm done with them for close to the same figure. I maybe lose a few hundred dollars, but that's the price of renting a game for a while. However, when they started coming out with CEs that are $1,250 and add shipping on top of that, So you're really looking at 1300. I was a little shocked and I thought I wouldn't do this, but I can't tell you how many people that I knew that were buying the game who said, huh, I'm trying to debate on if I should get the CE. and that was a that was an eye-opener for me um there are i've met some i guess some very wealthy pinball collectors just by going just by meeting them through the hobby and it does surprise me that there is that market which i never thought would happen when pirates had the collector's edition i thought yeah this is not going to happen and it does now the the the converse thing is that when you're charging that much you can put more into a game yep so when you're looking at uh the like the original iron man or you're looking at tron which they're great games but when you compare those games to games now, it feels very stripped down. It can still be fun. I'm not saying they're not fun, but I'm saying they're not packed.
    46:44
    And the increase in cost has obviously increased the build and materials that the designer is able to put in a machine, which is the reason why you get a game like Guns N' Roses, which is so crazy packed. What did you think when you first saw Guns N' Roses?
    47:02
    you know honestly it got me excited um the first first thing i looked at was like after it played and whatnot i've discussed this before i enjoyed groanings of roses growing up i really liked appetite for destruction but i never really considered myself a gnr fan so that was the problem with this title i felt like it could go either way but after the way that they revealed this i was like man i i had fomo setting in right fear of missing out real quick and i was like well I really want to see the standard.
    47:34
    And after seeing that, pretty much the upper play field is gone for the standard. Yeah. I was like, heck, you've got to buy the LE if you're going to buy this game. And at $9,500 plus shipping, I just, I can't. Like, don't get me wrong. JJP's great quality.
    47:53
    They're packed games. You are getting a fantastic game. But it prices me out of the market. I'd rather have a JP Pro and a Turtles Pro for that price. I mean, you're getting pretty close to two Pros.
    48:09
    I mean, yeah, you're spending a couple thousand more. But the thing that really spoke to me is I felt like this not was just a GNR pinball machine, but it's like a musician pinball machine. Like I've told you people that I played in a band before. I think the biggest concert we ever played was for 3,000 people. No more near the 50 million that GNR has done. But the thing about being on the stage in front of people and trying to encapsulate that is hard, especially if no one's been on the stage to rock out in front of fans. And so I felt like this pinball machine encapsulated that. I love the Gibson head. I love the Fender head. I love the drumsticks. just even the pop bumpers that are like a drum kit and it's got the hi-hat that moves and it's got the music symbols and it's got the concert footage and it's got i mean this game regardless if you're guns and roses fan if you're a musician it should speak to you and i feel like it does and it just it is an amazing game but i'm a broke kid so it's out of my league okay so let's assume that well okay you could do it if you really wanted to you could you could sell sell um two of your games and you could buy it right yes true yes yes so uh when i say the games that have come out so you have avengers um the options are would you buy it would you play it or would you walk buy it at a bar. I'm not that interested. I'm going to go somewhere else. I'm definitely playing it first.
    49:52
    That's where the hesitation is with me. This is Guns N' Roses or Avengers. Which one? Guns N' Roses.
    50:01
    Because you committed to buying Avengers without playing it. But the problem with Avengers is and I know this is what other people have discussed. jjps aren't as readily available on location as sterns are and so i've played iron maiden i've played jurassic park i know how keith games play and so it wasn't that big of a leap for me to jump to an avengers the only eric minyer game i've ever played is pirates well i guess that's his only game he's ever released but i only played it once i played it for a while but it was the prototype machine they brought it to utah for one of our uh pinball shows that we did and it was hard to get a feel for it and translate that to the next like into because they'd already announced that they weren't going to be doing this triple spinning disc they already announced they weren't going to do some of this stuff and they made it so it's like they made a big mistake to continue to haul around the example of the triple spinning disc they should have immediately sent out a replacement game they should have but i played it and it played great it was fun it had a line so i couldn't really thoroughly enjoy it as much as i could but it was in the back of my mind like i'm playing this but how much of this is going to be different here when they actually release the game right and they also well one of the problems too is the play field on the prototype did not rock back and forth adequately so i think they did themselves a disservice with not updating the prototypes because I think people felt, oh, well, this isn't even the game that I'm going to get. And so that eroded sales too. I agree. So I think that's the problem is like, I've played plenty, I've played Keith's other two games. And so it's not hard for me to envision what his third one's going to be like, especially after seeing photos and whatnot. And it's hard with a JJP game because there's a lot of depth to these games. It's hard to play it at one setting and then get a great feel for it. I totally agree that the code is way too deep.
    52:08
    And J.J.P. games are like a crockpot. They take a long time to cook and a long time to experience and a long time to explore.
    52:17
    Stern games are more, I don't want to say they're shallower, But I think they're less diverse in that the matrix, I don't know how to describe it, that flow chart that Keith always puts out for his games.
    52:38
    Keith Johnson puts out for his games and it's pretty complex. Sterns don't seem to be as complex. They have certain awards, like Jurassic Park has the different awards, the DNA award, all that stuff. But it's kind of a bonus to the game.
    52:58
    And you're still following a similar path, but it's a little more straightforward. And the other thing about Sterns, too, is you can flip them really quickly. like if i get a game in that i don't enjoy i i like if i decide tomorrow i want to sell turtles i know three people in the state that would take it no problems no questions asked they would just take it at a reasonable price right i would probably i would either well i probably wouldn't break even but i mean like you said you lose a couple hundred bucks you get your money back you get correct with jjps i don't know that you know people wizard of oz has been out for how many years now but i see people i see them sell for six grand hobbits hobbits were selling for how much when they came out first i don't know anyone they'll pay over six grand for a hobbit dialed in same thing it's like you spent nine thousand dollars you're gonna be lucky if you get six to seven out of it same with willy wonka like well i okay i won't say that but we won't because willy wonka is newer and we don't have a really good timeline of of it selling granted Guns N' Roses is a fantastic theme. It's what people want. Pirates has really retained its value. Our friend Joe Lemire with the Pinball Players podcast just sold his standard with a bunch of mods on it for like $13. And so congratulations, dude. That's awesome.
    54:22
    But for the most part, JJPs don't have a really reputable – I don't mind losing a couple hundred bucks. I have a hard time losing a couple thousand dollars on a pinball machine. I feel less worried about that I think Guns N' Roses will certainly hold on to its value I don't think it's going to be something that's going to change hands a lot but I think that once you do get to a certain price point it is harder to move I still feel with Wizard of Oz you're still going to get roughly what you pay for
    54:58
    but who knows uh pinball is always a it's always a gamble but i would guarantee whatever you buy on your pinball machine you will at least get 80 to 90 percent of what you paid yeah well and it must be a good it's a good sign when the ce sell out and less than like four hours or whatever it's a great theme i like other themes that come out because they when people talk about i saw some people say well are they relevant i'm like well they are the current 401k tour out there that people the highest grossing tour of all time yeah people always wanted to see them and so they were in their fight for 20 plus years and now they got back together and they put together an amazing concert my friend went to it i saw the tickets and the tickets were like 250 bucks and i thought yeah no but she went and she said no it's three hours and it was awesome and i was like oh okay well all right i i'm glad uh so i i that's why i think that they're a little more relevant because people had been wanting to see them um like death leopard and journey you know you know or motley crew or or all those other ones they're still touring like there's not really much of a demand because if you miss them this year, you can see them next year. Yeah. Well, besides the whole COVID thing. But yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah. So I think it worked. It worked. This is one thing I want to point out that I'm very, very impressed with. So they actually have Slash as the co-designer for this game.
    56:42
    And this, I think what Guns N' Roses has proven is that theme integration is just important to a certain part of the community as even gameplay. Cause let's all, we let's all admit this. If CE sold out in the last four hours, that means no one's played this game yet, right? You don't know how it plays. It sold solely off a theme and integration. And I guarantee it's because slash had a hand in it. If you listen to the super awesome pinball show in the Eric interview, if you listen to, uh, the Jersey Jack pinball podcast with the slash and Eric interview. There are so many times where they hit a road bump on licensing. My favorite one is when they're talking about, uh, live or let die. It's a Paul McCartney song, but live and let die, uh, Guns and Roses had done their own version for use your illusion one or two. I can't remember which album it's on. Um, and it's, it's almost become a Guns and Roses staple, even though it's a Paul McCartney song. and eric being the orchestra nerd wanted that song on guns for roses because you know just everything about that song and eric ran into road bump after road bump with licensing the problem is is it's got multiple licensing it's just not one licensor and it it just had felt like an abandon all hope kind of situation and he ends up talking to slash it i can't remember how long they've been fighting to get this and slash is like are we good to go with everything and eric's like everything is set for live and let die and he's like what's the problem we're having and he's like slash we can't it's it's paul mccartney like we can't get this license locked down and slash is like give me 15 minutes within 15 minutes they're on a three-way call it's slash paul freaking mccartney and eric and they're like yeah this isn't a problem paul's like yeah you guys can use it just put it in the game we'll get it worked out yeah okay i don't know if it's a three-way call but certainly uh slash called him and yeah took care of it yeah but still the point being is is like slash wanted stuff in this game he wanted the gibson name he wanted the fender name he wanted you know the vader for the drumsticks that there were certain licensing things that from a perspective of became a lot easier with slash involved and so all this integration you you can tell that someone that wants to be involved with the project and wants to see this as it went past just making a pinball machine for slash and eric it went to a full-on passion project and you could get that like slash said that it's like he wanted a game that was his I mean, he dragged band members into the recording studio to make them record their stuff. And just, it's amazing. It is amazing how much theme integration there is in this game. And that's the thing about Jersey Jacks. The theme integrations are amazing. Like, look at Hobbit. Look at Wizard of Oz. It just, it is, that is their shtick, right? And so, I don't know why I was going with this. But seriously, like, that's my takeaway from all this. Like, the problem is, is now they've raised the bar pretty high because they've had Slash, who was involved with the whole project, raise the bar because he could.
    60:13
    And so where does that leave Jersey Jack on the next game? Say they do Toy Story. We saw how Pirates of the Caribbean, yeah, it plays fantastic, but no one ever talks about the theme integration because you don't have scenes from the movies besides, like, the boat floating on the water and stuff like that. You get what I'm saying here?
    60:33
    It certainly has an immersive theme integration, and I'm sure that there was some sort of understanding with Guns N' Roses or at least Slash that there's really only so much they could pay for the license.
    60:50
    And so that was – I'm sure there was a lot more of Slash being involved and saying, look, we don't care. Like we don't need the money. Exactly. It wasn't a, it wasn't a money grab for them. It wasn't a pay us money for this. It was, Hey, let's make a really awesome pinball machine. And I'm sure they, I'm sure they got some money for it, but they, they could have pulled a star Wars where it was an expensive license. And so obviously the building materials suffered, but that, that didn't seem to be that. Now, that being said, you, if you want the LE, you're paying $10,000 for it. So there is a lot in there. And so the build of materials does cover that. So this is me projecting. I don't have any inside information, but that's, uh, I, I think, yes, it is certainly complete, well immersive game, but I would say you would get a similar thing from iron maiden. Um, iron maiden did this, did the similar type thing where they were easy to work with and they, They were fully involved, but you can get that with a band who has the licensing and the artistic assets and everything all together. You can't get that with a movie.
    62:14
    You can't get that with a lot of other things just because there are other considerations to be made.
    62:22
    And I agree to a point, but I just feel like this is on another level. Like, just listening back to some of that stuff, I just, I feel like, I don't know, like just listening to Slash's passion for this, it got me excited for this. And really, Jersey Jack should use that to their advantage. They really should. I don't know if, did you listen to the Jersey Jack podcast, the one with Slash and Eric?
    62:49
    I haven't yet. I've been working the last two weeks, and so I'm a little behind in that. So there's a part where Ken asks Slash, he says, hey, would you ever consider doing another pinball machine? Because you're obviously good at this. And Slash is like, definitely. Sign me up. Where can I sign up? and it's like could you imagine any other theme and slash just being involved and i'm not saying like he's a fantastic playful designer but if if you could break down boundaries and licensing that have been put up over the last decade that could be game changer for the pinball industry you could everyone always rants and raves about like adam family and how you know all the voice characters and the the integration and you know if if we going to be honest this is just me projecting but like adam's family isn't a fantastic shooting game in my opinion like it's a fun game don't get me wrong but it's kind of shoot the scoop shoot the ramp shoot the scoop shoot the ramp you don't really have to complete the mode you just kind of do it over and over till you complete all the modes and And you get the wonderful, the amazing start to, you know, tour the mansion.
    64:05
    And the jackpot is just amazing on that. Like, there is aspects of that game that just is fantastic. But in my opinion, there are better games nowadays that far trump Adam's Family. But the love it gets is because of its theme integration. Well, the love it gets is because it's the first one that really started the mode-based games. yeah i guess that is true as well so it was kind of a landmark and i know uh my friend gary that's his that's his go-to game and or his grail game is he sold a adams family gold because he wants a better one and i keep saying i think you may just get a different game like it's not that big of a deal so but and if you love adams family awesome like that's cool like well okay everybody Everybody has their special purpose, their grail game, right? And that's why it's fine. So it'll be interesting to see where this goes in the future because this release and this level of involvement by a licensor seems unprecedented in the history of pinball when it comes to the popularity of the license. And the integration. is this a one-off i actually kind of think this is a this is an anomaly i don't think it's going to carry over um i i'm kind of there with you do you think john bon jovi is going to be as involved in his pinball machine i don't think so no no and we could be wrong i don't know so um the the one that made me chuckle is tim lee i don't know if you know tim he's a great guy uh i love the dude because his profile picture is of our shirt. And I think that's cool that someone actually enjoys this enough that they'd actually rep us on their Facebook page. And so, but he kind of did like a tongue-in-cheek, like Avengers or Guns N' Roses kind of question, you know?
    66:11
    And he was trying to make the point of, why do we need to decide either or? If you got the money and you love them both, why can't you buy them both, essentially? and i totally agree with him why why do we have that in this community where it's like no you got to buy avengers or no it's guns and roses like no you suck like it's like adam sandler and the little kid and billy madison you remember that where he's like donkey kong sucks no mortal combat sucks no you suck no you suck you know and i feel like we're kind of that point and why can't we the little girl from the taco commercial where she's like why not both and everyone then cheers Right. So, yeah, well, I understand you're going to have a well, if you're buying one, which one are you going to buy? Because I made that decision. I Guns N' Roses. That was the worst kept secret. Like everybody knew this was coming and even Slash said, yeah, we're making a pinball machine. So, yeah, that was the worst kept secret. The the challenges, which one do you want to buy? And my attitude is if you really want a game, and I've said this before, if there's a Grail game out there, guess what? You'll probably be able to get it at some point. So don't kill yourself. Pick one. Try it out. If it works for you, great. Hold on to it. If you don't, then sell it and move on. You can buy both games at some point. But I did prioritize and I bought Avengers, and I love it.
    67:38
    Well, and like we've always said, if you don't know what to buy, then hold off. Like these are still going to location and whatnot. grab your mask grab your hand sanitizer and go support your favorite company or your favorite arcade and or bar and go out there and play some pinball these are gonna be out there it's been too much of a hit not to be out there so go play it and you decide if if you can only buy one then so be it so but i don't know i have a hard time with guns and roses we both discussed this because it's not super family friendly yeah okay even though there's a family mode and eric said that obviously there is a family mode and he has kids too and i i'm sure they will uh learn uh all the swear words out there and but i just don't want them to be on the pinball machine and eric said there's a big sheet when you buy the the game underneath that says this ship's in family mode if If you want to experience the whole game, then you have to turn on the adult settings. And that's fine. I just don't want someone dropping an F-bomb at me in my house. I agree. And that's, like I said, that's the hard part for me, too, is I can't really bring it into my home. And I'd want to play the full version because I would feel like I'm missing out if I'm not. And then it's just, I don't know. And I know it's easy to switch back and forth. Like, don't get me wrong. But I just, I don't know. I got young impressionable minds. I don't, I don't want the sling plastics of the women in their bikinis and stuff. I don't know. Yeah. But that's, you know, it's kind of like saying, do you like movies? Yeah. But not every movie is going to be appropriate for all audiences. And that's why they have, that's why they have ratings. So, so I guess my point to all this, if, if you're, if you're on the fence of either Oracle plan, both, you don't feel don't feel obligated to pick a side i mean it's pinball like even eric minier said this when he came on our show a year and a half ago he's like any pinball is good pinball right well like they all know each other and they're all friends yeah yeah so it's not like it's west side story when they run into each other burger king i can see that i can see when eric sees keith they just start doing a snap dance fight so all right i think we've covered avengers i I think we've covered Guns N' Roses.
    70:05
    There's only a couple more things I wanted to cover. Is there anything else you want to add to this before we move off this topic? No, I think they're both hits. I'm really happy for both of them because I think they both made exactly what they wanted to, and I think they will get a big following.
    70:24
    Yep. I totally agree. And I guess my last thing is we need to stop giving companies crap for not doing what other companies are doing. So, you know, JJP is doing what they do best and Stern's doing what they do best. American Pinball is doing what they do best. I mean, it kind of it kind of words me out when we're like, well, they're not doing this, but JJP is doing it. There's room at the table. There's room at the table for everyone.
    70:50
    Yep. And so they all have their shtick. Let them do it. So, cool. Let's talk about I don't really want to give my personal opinion on this. OK. But that's a good way of starting a segment. I don't know how to say it. OK, what's your thoughts on the CPR play field?
    71:12
    Kits, I don't know what to call them. Yeah. We've talked about obviously there's a history of very sexual images in pinball. and kind of being dominated by the audience that they were trying to sell to, which was kind of young boys and men.
    71:34
    So they pushed that. You know, I'm just going to say the stereotypical beer commercial, that image, right? Yep. And so there are – you showed me these. There are some conversion kits out there for Harlem Globetrotters, and they're kind of in that realm. They're a little bit scantily clad women. And I understand there's an audience for it somewhere because obviously people still buy them and do that.
    72:05
    But I it just feels a little dated. It's I fully admit that there's an audience for it. I'm not the audience.
    72:14
    And I'm a little surprised that they're still making those now because it feels a little dated. But that's just my take. The other thought I have, too, is if you haven't looked at these, do go on CPR Playfield or CPR Restoration. Google it. I can't remember exactly what it is. I apologize, CPR.
    72:37
    But one, it's Holler and Gold Trotters is converted over to Inked. It's a bunch of women, tattoos, you know, nothing wrong with tattoos. It looks kind of cool. It feels like a Maxim magazine, though. So it's not like a Playboy, but it's certainly more on the Gentleman's Magazine, if you want to put it that way. Yeah, put it that way.
    73:08
    And then the other one that I've seen so far is for Playboy, which, I mean, if you own a Playboy, you're obviously not against this. this, but they came out with a Playmate one, which is I guess an updated version of all the girls in Playboy. I don't know. But what confuses me is, I don't know, maybe there are people out there, I don't think I'd want a hot pink pinball machine in my collection. I mean, that's like hot pink if you look at it. Yeah, I think it's fine.
    73:34
    And it's nothing against the color pink and there's no commentary on gender association with the color. It's just I don't like pink. I'm sorry. Yeah, so. Anywho, but I don't – Playboy actually retails for a decent price, and so does Harlem Globetrotters. Would you drop $3,000 on one of these kits to spend how many hours? Because it's cabinet decals, it's plastics, it's a whole new play field, it's a translate. I mean, it's a full kit. You're converting your pinball machine over to this.
    74:10
    I don't know. I mean, it's just me, but I look at a lot of resale value. You know what I'm saying? Like, I just have a hard time spending $3,000 on something that I don't know if I'll get the money ever out of it again. Yeah, I can see if someone gets a roached one where they're interested in having this polarizing theme conversion. I can see them wanting to do something like that. But it's kind of like having a car that you hot rod out.
    74:42
    It really has to be to your tastes. Like that's for you. That's not really for anyone else. And you're probably not going to get much out of it when you sell it.
    74:55
    So I would just say this is a very limited targeted audience. Well, and I do want to know, I mean, if you guys, if anyone out there is buying one, we won't shame you or anything. I do really want to know if you guys are buying this because it seems like Scott said, it's very targeted audience. It's I just don't see inked as a theme that that grabs people. I could be wrong. Don't know. Yeah.
    75:24
    So. But cool. So. All right. Last but not least, let's talk about our giveaway. It's been since August. Yes. Sorry, guys. We've been a little behind on this. And so we are going to announce the winner of the first giveaway, and then we are going to be shamelessly asking for shares and reviews, and we will do the same thing again. So go ahead. Take it away, Josh. So we did the drawing a couple weeks ago. We pulled the name. We're not going to – like usually we do the spinning the wheel and whatnot. We're not doing that today. We pulled out a name. So if you don't remember, the contest was go to your favorite pinball place, arcade, barcade, even if it's at home. We wanted to support the local arcades. They're starting to fail. They're starting – there's a lot of people closing doors. And so I guess it was to help incentivize people to get out the door and to go support those. They're having a really rough time right now.
    76:23
    And we also said if you didn't feel comfortable doing that, you could do it from your home, whatever it may be. we got a surprising amount of submissions it was pretty awesome a lot of people showing a lot of love for the arcades uh the one that we drew out was glenn watcher i think is his name i w-a-e-c-h-t-e-r watcher that's what i'm going with it's glenn watcher i want to share a story really quick he went to no quarter in nashville tennessee he said this is one of his favorite places well kind of they're trying to keep location pinball alive in the middle of tennessee just before the pandemic though the tornado hit and took out half their building they're only open temporarily right now three days a week with social distancing requirements the new building will be done in about six months but he wanted to give a shout out to no quarter in tennessee that is awesome that's so cool that you're supporting them and it sounds like they've had quite the trauma between a tornado and the pandemic. So Glenn Watcher, we will be reaching out to you on Facebook if you don't reach out to us first, but we'll reach out to you and get your swag back and get your information. So, and really quickly, thank you. Thank you. People have been reviewing us. We really appreciate it. We went from like 15 reviews on the pinball database to 34, I think is what we're at right now. I mean, holy crap, more than doubled. and we're number one on pinball database right now. And so it is so cool that we're at the number one pinball promoter database there on Twit.
    78:01
    We thank you for leaving us five-star reviews. We appreciate the kind words. I don't know what else to put to that. What do you want to say, Scott? Okay. We do this for fun. Really, that's the whole point of this. And it means a lot to me, and I know it means a lot to Josh, that we have been able to mean something to someone else. And even if it's that giving you an hour, a little over an hour every two weeks, just to think about something other than all the stress that we've been dealing with in life this year, we feel very flattered and humbled that people are able to spend their time with us together. And so just from the bottom of my heart, I would like to say thanks to people and we would like to continue that. Obviously, having reviews helps us spread our our our tribe across for people who are willing to just have a low drama pinball. And so we would like to continue that with more people. And so if you want to do a review on iTunes, just snap a picture of your review or just send us an email that, hey, did a review for you. We'll give you – if you do three reviews, like one on iTunes, one on This Week in Pinball, and where else are we getting reviewed, I guess, Josh?
    79:40
    Android or Apple. Yeah. Did you say those two? I said Apple, yeah. Android or Apple. Sorry. Yeah. And this week in pinball, and then what is the other one? And on Facebook, if you want to share a message. That's fine. We'll give people up to three entries, and I got a swag bag. I've actually been buying a whole bunch of stickers and keychains, and Mrs. Pin actually took some of my placard things and made earrings out of them. And so if you wear earrings, these could be for you too. So we're looking for a few.
    80:21
    We don't know. I'll have to gather all my swag bags together, and we'll be able to send them out. But make some reviews out there, and hopefully we can reach more people. and just give a break in their life. And that's pretty much it. We're happy with everybody who's listening and we just want to keep doing it. Yep. And we do ask that you leave a five-star review. We put a lot of time and effort into this to bring you guys free content, enjoyable content. I think we're the only podcast or one of the only podcasts that doesn't do a Patreon. We just, we're doing it for fun because we want you guys, our audience, to feel like you are sitting next to us. And it's just a discussion about pinball and having fun. That is no jab at any other other podcast. I think everyone does great at what they are doing. I mean, and really, everybody has to find ways of paying the bills. I mean, there are ways that you're you're doing it. I feel very lucky that Josh and I have been able to self fund. And so if people find different ways of making it work, then great. I'm happy for them. We just do this because we like spending time and we like meeting people. So, yep. even our friends at the podcast, they don't pay us anything. We just, we enjoy their product and we feel like they're people that are cool with us. And so we want to support them as well. Yeah. We want to promote them. So, so, uh, really honestly, like Scott said, we, between hats. Hey, by the way, we got more hats in. Oh yeah. We got more hats, shirts and other stuff. So if you're interested in one of those, please reach out. And we're looking into face masks.
    81:55
    I know the problem was, is I know Jeff told us we got to do face masks. When did we have us on pinball profile? That was like, yeah, that was a while ago. It was a while ago. I think we've just been kind of overwhelmed. So just like everybody has been.
    82:08
    well, and I think the other two is like, I think none of us knew how this was going to shake out in March. Right. When this all went down. Yeah. And so we're like, how does this all going to work now that we know that masks are going to be here for quite some time? I think it's time. So we're, we're looking into it. So if, if you want to lose your kid mask, um, well, hopefully we'll get some when we're working on it. So.
    82:31
    Ta-da. Oh. Anyway, finishing up with a bang. So, all right, uh, Josh, uh, where can they reach us if they have any questions?
    82:45
    Uh, if you want to get ahold of us, you can contact us at Loser Kid Pinball. We are on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram.
    82:54
    Uh, yeah. and if you want to get a hold of us via email we're loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com we appreciate everything that you guys submit whether it be a message or a comment we love chit-chatting with you uh if you want i don't know i haven't talked to scott about this i've been half tempted to do a discord have you ever done discord scott i uh i'm i have such limited time so no but if you're interested go ahead we might i don't know it's been cool i just joined this flipping podcast uh discord if you haven't joined that check that one out it's been pretty fun it's it's fun to get some people in the in the industry or not necessarily sorry in the community just chit chat and pinball with each other it's kind of real time chat so uh i don't know i'm kind of lazy though i don't know if i really want to do a discord okay it's it's the upkeep well okay this is this is you so you need to make uh you need to make the decision i'm pretty tapped out time-wise. I know. It's seriously just setting it up. It's not that big of a deal, but it's, I don't know. Sure, but you have to figure it out. Okay. All right. Yeah. So, other than that, I think that's it. Okay.
    84:09
    All right. Well, thanks for tuning in and I'll see you in a couple weeks. All right. See you in a couple weeks.
    84:23
    🎵