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The Pinball Show Ep 157 BONUS 2: Watches With Zach

Pinball Show Patreon Feed·podcast_episode·13m 46s·analyzed·Jul 27, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.020

TL;DR

Hosts discuss luxury watch collecting and draw parallels to pinball obsession and cost barriers.

Summary

This bonus Patreon episode features a casual, tangential conversation between two hosts about luxury watch collecting. One host recently developed an interest in watches after seeing a $30,900 Rolex 1908, and through guided exploration discovered a passion for mechanical complications—particularly minute repeaters (watches that chime the time). The discussion draws explicit parallels between watch collecting and pinball collecting, noting the obsessive nature, hobby depth, and cost barriers of both pursuits. The host concludes that while fascinated by high-end watchmaking, the financial barriers prevent entry into the hobby.

Key Claims

  • JJP's highest-end model sells for a price point just above the average Rolex price (~$12,000)

    medium confidence · Dennis explaining why pinball's premium positioning feels cheap compared to luxury watches: 'JJP's highest end model sells a little bit above the average price of a Rolex.'

  • Men's Rolex watches start at around $7,000 and the average company sales price is around $12,000

    medium confidence · Dennis explaining Rolex pricing tiers: 'men's rolex has kind of started about seven thousand and go up from there but i think their average price point on sales is probably around like twelve thousand for the company'

  • Hand-finished watches with complications represent where luxury watch companies show off their craftsmanship and justify high prices

    high confidence · Dennis on watch pricing: 'There's only so much value in hand finishing and the precious metals and stuff. So making it small and difficult is where they show off.'

  • Tourbillons on wrist watches are primarily aesthetic rather than functionally necessary, as wrist movement already provides constant repositioning

    high confidence · Dennis explaining tourbillon functionality: 'it's not as practical honestly for wrist watches because with wrist watches they move all the time because they on your wrist so if you wearing them all the time they just look cool'

  • High-end minute repeater watches can include automata complications like moving bird figurines, with some priced around $250,000

    medium confidence · Zach describing a watch with automata: 'there was a brand that had little little birds feeding their birds in a nest oh my god and it had like a little tune it played and then it was like a quarter million dollars'

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm a very all or nothing kind of fella so if I'm going to do something boy I'm going to really do it”

    Zach Sharpe@ 5:10 — Explains Zach's personality and why he escalated from casual watch interest to obsessing over minute repeaters and complications

  • “I found the equivalent of a pinball topper in the watch division”

    Zach Sharpe@ 4:30 — Direct analogy comparing watch complications to pinball design obsession; central theme of the episode

  • “JJP's highest end model sells a little bit above the average price of a Rolex. It's just not – I see the cheapness because of that.”

    Dennis@ 7:30 — Key industry observation: pinball premium positioning lacks the hand-craftsmanship justification of luxury watches

  • “You can live in a studio apartment and basically never run out of space. And you'll never be able to – I'm speaking for myself. You'll never be able to afford the nicest version or anywhere near the nicest version.”

    Dennis@ 6:58 — Describes the economic barrier to high-end watch collecting that parallels pinball collecting challenges

  • “If I could have a watch that had a cuckoo that jumps out of the crystal, oh, I would be on it.”

    Zach Sharpe@ 5:48 — Demonstrates Zach's attraction to theatrical, mechanical complications in watches

  • “it's not perpetual. What?”

    Zach Sharpe@ 10:10 — Comedic moment reflecting frustration with perpetual calendar complications requiring annual adjustment

Entities

Zach SharpepersonDennispersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyRolexcompanyJaeger-LeCoultrecompanyLonginescompanyBreitlingcompanyOmegacompanyUlysses NardincompanyJacob & Cocompany

Signals

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Discussion of how luxury watch manufacturers justify high prices through complex, often impractical mechanical complications (minute repeaters, tourbillons, automata) that serve as markers of engineering prowess and craftsmanship rather than practical utility

    high · Dennis: 'There's only so much value in hand finishing and the precious metals and stuff. So making it small and difficult is where they show off.' And Zach finding minute repeaters to be the equivalent of a pinball topper.

  • $

    market_signal: Critical observation that JJP's premium pinball machine pricing (~$12k+) approaches average Rolex pricing but lacks equivalent hand-crafted, complex mechanical justification

    high · Dennis: 'JJP's highest end model sells a little bit above the average price of a Rolex... I see the cheapness because of that. I see that you're sticking in LEDs. You're saying, hey, look, I powder-coated something.'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Zach's all-or-nothing personality creates escalating hobby commitment; discovers minute repeaters and cannot consider any watch without that feature, mirroring pinball collector behavior

    high · Zach: 'I found the equivalent of a pinball topper in the watch division... I couldn't go back. I'm a very all or nothing kind of fella.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Dennis critiques pinball premium models for relying on LEDs and powder-coating rather than hand-finished details like gouache, contrasting with luxury watch standards

    high · Dennis: 'I see that you're sticking in LEDs... where's the hand-finished on gouache? No, you don't even have that.'

  • ?

Topics

Luxury watch collecting and complicationsprimaryMinute repeater watches and mechanical complicationsprimaryComparison between watch collecting and pinball collecting as hobbiesprimaryPremium pricing and craftsmanship in luxury goodsprimaryAutomata and theatrical watch complicationssecondaryCost barriers to entry in luxury hobbiessecondaryPinball premium positioning vs. luxury market standardssecondary

Sentiment

positive(0.72)— Enthusiastic, playful tone throughout. Zach is excited about watch discoveries but also comedically resigned to financial barriers. Dennis is knowledgeable and amused by Zach's escalating obsession. Some self-aware frustration about complexity of watch collecting, but framed humorously. The critical comment about pinball's 'cheapness' compared to watches is delivered matter-of-factly rather than harshly.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.041

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. Thanks again for the ongoing support as a Pinball Show Club member. Enjoy this exclusive TPS content and make sure to visit the Pinball Show Club Discord to chat about the bonus material. All right, Dennis, so $30,000.
0:31
What did I forget? I've researched so many pieces at this point. It was $30,900. It was the Rolex 1908 in platinum with the ice blue dial. That's what just, I don't know where I seen it, but I seen that somewhere and I'm like, fuck me. That is easily the most beautiful thing I've ever seen on a wrist. And then you, so like a nice friend, you educated me on it. And then I – so I started deep diving. I went into the Rolex website, and I was like, you know what?
1:02
All right, this series over here is actually really affordable. Let me take it back. Affordable based on the initial Rolex that I looked at. So there are some – what are some of the series of Rolex that are more everyday, run-of-the-mill? Oh, there's steel ones. So you're thinking like Datejust, Submariner. deep seas oyster perpetuals yeah yeah and get it for like what seven eight ten thousand dollars
1:33
yeah men's rolex has kind of started about seven thousand and go up from there but i think their average price point on sales is probably around like twelve thousand for the company so then that then i was like okay well and then i i had fun whenever you deep dive a hobby you're learning everything all at once and it's like the best feeling ever because you're just soaking up information i love it uh so then i ventured to like look through the rolex stuff and it's like uh what do i like what don't i like oh everybody likes these i don't get it like i don't like those
Reservoir
company

industry_signal: Comparison between watch industry's established premium positioning (based on mechanical complexity, hand-finishing, precious materials) and pinball's attempted premium positioning (lacking equivalent justification)

high · Extended discussion of how complications and hand-finishing justify watch pricing vs. pinball's LED and powder-coat approach at similar price points

  • ?

    community_signal: Brand reputation and hobbyist opinion vary significantly within watch community; Zach found Breitling less respected among enthusiasts despite personal appeal

    medium · Zach: 'I thought that was a hot watch but then i look into like the hobbyist and they they're not that hot on brightling stuff so i'm like oh okay'

    • 2:03
    at all so i start pitching those to you and you're like ah so you started seeing some of the styling i liked and you're like i felt like you were probably like it's kind of weird he likes a lot of dress up uh dress up uh watches but he's wanting something that he's going to wear more regularly so he's he's kind of stuck in between two things well categorically that is kind of how people do the split but you can you can wear what you want when you want so it's just a question of if you worried about getting it wet and things like that and i didn't even think about that you're like well washing your hands would be difficult i'm like what you shouldn't make
    2:37
    spend that much on a watch and you can't wash your hands like what is this a fucking cyber truck because i had issues with car wash yes yes uh yeah most of them are hand wash safe but Not much more than that. So then you were like, well, if you're looking at these, may I suggest a couple of these brands? And I, oh, okay. So I dove into those. And then very soon I was like, oh, I really like these. I really don't like these. I like this. I'm trying to think what the ones that I liked. Yeah. I think you found some of the Jaeger LeCoultre.
    3:09
    Oh, my God. The Jaeger. Oh, boy. So I love those. I really love those and the styling. Just even the innovations of that company and their mission I loved everything about that Plus it got such a bougie name Zajacocco Yes Everyone just calls them JLC Yeah and I wouldn I would never. Like, that's a slap in the face. What the fuck are we doing here? No. You say it like it. And then I, what did I?
    3:40
    And I also liked, but I guess it's not that popular. I really like the, not the Omega, because I wasn't impressed with the Omega stuff. Right. It might have been long jeans. oh yeah i like those that was terrific and you sent me to that uh brightling i think brightling and bright oh yeah you you found some i thought that was a hot watch but then i look into like the hobbyist and they they're not that hot on brightling stuff so i'm like oh okay or it didn't feel like it wherever i was looking yeah it's i mean the different brands have their you
    4:13
    know fans and reputations and it's just it's weird i really thought at this point listener I'm going to buy a pretty nice watch here. I'm going to. And then I kept diving and then something happened. I found the equivalent of a pinball topper in the watch division. I will say that I couldn't get back after that. I don't know if a lot of people experience this, but for me, the minute repeater,
    4:45
    is that correct? The minute repeater? once I found that and the gimmicky nature of that and the additional sensory feedback that it provides not only to you but to other people around I couldn't go I can't get a watch that doesn't have that I'm a very all or nothing kind of fella so if I'm going to do something boy I'm going to really do it So, then I started looking for listeners that aren't familiar.
    5:19
    A minute repeater is, Dennis, you're the fucking expert. I'm not even going to try to. Can you tell them what a minute repeater is? Sure. It's a complication on a watch where you activate it and it chimes out what time it is. Yeah, like a little grandfather clock. Yes. It's so cute. It's precious. and I'm not going to wear a watch if it doesn't have a little grandfather in it. Ding, ding, like a little cuckoo. If I could have a watch that had a cuckoo that jumps out of the crystal,
    5:52
    oh, I would be on it. So then I found that in watch collecting, like the cool stuff is different complications or different digital age apps, different uses, if you will. So there's all kinds of stupid bullshit that nobody ever uses, but they still want it because it's a complication. And it's how can I make something so small but it still function so precisely? Look at my big dick. So that's how I'm interpreting. That's probably a very poor way of explaining it, isn't it?
    6:25
    Look how big my complication is. Well, I mean, complications are – I mean, that's where the money goes. There's only so much value in hand finishing and the precious metals and stuff. So making it small and difficult is where they show off. But that's what I love. I love the mechanical nature of watches and all of that So this is really a hobby that I probably would really love but very dangerous because you were like slow down there Tiger Well you ain going to run out of space is the problem
    6:57
    Exactly. You can live in a studio apartment and basically never run out of space. And you'll never be able to – I'm speaking for myself. You'll never be able to afford the nicest version or anywhere near the nicest version. That is tough for me. That one's tough. So you – I think for me the interesting thing about you looking at this was I think it let you understand why I find it so quaint when I see pinball try and be high end.
    7:30
    And I'm like, you guys, you're not – I mean, JJP's highest end model sells a little bit above the average price of a Rolex. It's just not – That's a sit-down, guys. And I see the cheapness because of that. Yeah. I see that you're sticking in LEDs. You're saying, hey, look, I powder-coated something. And I'm like, where's the hand-finished on gouache? No, you don't even have that. So as I was looking into all this stuff, I was like, okay, so minute repeater at minimum, that's what I would need.
    8:00
    I'd need a little grandfather clock that gives me a ding. That's so, so cool. And then I'm like, okay, there are some that maybe I could stretch to get to. But then you see the evolution of that minute repeater. Then you see the, how do you pronounce the name of that watch? Couture? Ja, Ja, La Couture. And then I seen them have not only the minute repeater, but one that plays the Westminster chime.
    8:34
    Ding, ding, ding, ding. Ah, okay. Ding, ding, ding, ding. I didn't know about that one. Ding, ding. It's like they're ultra-exclusive, like the highest end-minute repeater, where it gives you the true grandfather playback. But then this one has something that's fucking spent. What is this thing? And they call it, what is it, a gyroscopic bullion cube? Like, what is this thing? No, a turbulon. Turbulon. It looks like bullion. Turbulon. And I'm like, what is this fucking Avengers Infinity Quest gauntlet on my wrist?
    9:06
    So it's a three-dimensional thing that not only spins in 2D, it spins gyroscopically. Again, no clue what the purpose is, and I would probably guess like half of the people that buy one with the Booyong Androscopic Scope. What is it again? Turbion. And dual sausage. Turbion. The purpose of it is purportedly for accuracy. It spins the balances in it. So, right, right.
    9:37
    Well, the idea was with pocket watches back when they were a thing that they sat in your pocket in one particular direction. So accuracy was often compromised because it wasn't it wasn't being moved around a lot. So this way it's it's putting the escapement in all these different positions to balance it. Basically, like how if you move a watch, depending what position the watches and the accuracy changes, this is to normalize it because it's always moving. so in theory it's going through all 360 degrees
    10:08
    you see you understand I it's not as practical honestly for wrist watches because with wrist watches they move all the time because they on your wrist so if you wearing them all the time they just look cool so cool But then if you don then you have to put them on this machine on your dresser so that it moves it every now and then I'm like, what is this, like an old pot of chili that you've got to keep stirring? Well, that's just if you want to have them wind. Yeah, and then I sold it. If they're auto-wind because a lot of them are hand-wind only. But then there's some of them that cost a lot of money.
    10:40
    But it's like, yeah, but at the end of the 30 days, if you're not falling into a 30-day thing, then you've got to redo the whole – I'm like, it's not perpetual. What? Perpetual calendar is a complication. And then you're like, there's no way I can buy – Or an annual calendar, depending. But then I couldn't buy under that, though. Why would you buy anything that wasn't – are you going to do that every time? If you don't care about the date, you might not want a calendar at all because it's more stuff on the dial. You might find it distracting. And then I thought, man, this feels like a second job at this point. so and then i found what i thought was definitely the topper the minute repeater then you got the
    11:17
    westminster but then if you can get i don't care about the turbulent as much as i cared about there's and you know what this is the industry that you are in and i think there is a gaping hole for it um that is um automata am i saying it correctly i think that's the term used for um moving visual pieces on the oh automata automata oh ex machina all right ulysses mardon has some of that so i loved the really gaudy figures that move on the things like there was a brand
    11:54
    that had little little birds feeding uh their birds in a nest oh my god and it had like a little tune it played and then it was like a quarter million dollars and that is what i was like that's some of the jacob and co stuff too yeah and i was like you know what i'm out like i'll never be able to hang and that's what i want they did have a popeye one somebody made a popeye that was pretty cool and i'm saying yeah i'm saying it with ignorance because i i still dive deep enough that i know
    12:28
    all of the series of the Popeyes that were made by different companies dating back. This was a more recent one that was done by, I think it was more of an upstart fucking company. Like it was a Kickstarter. Well, I'm trying to think what, not Triumph. Let's see how close I am. Popeye, Watch, there it is. Reservoir, like a kind of a no-name company, right? I mean, I've heard of them, but yeah, it's a lesser known. Yeah, and I thought, you know what? I really love that. Well, that's a beautiful watch, Popeye, with his hands.
    12:59
    So I thought, well, maybe I could do it, but then I needed my minute repeater. So, listeners, I'm warming up to this hobby, but I think there are barriers that are going to prevent me from diving in, which I'm very thankful for, actually, because I ain't got no money for this hobby. Why is this the third person asking me for a Led Zeppelin premium? Hmm. Like in 2019 called, where in the hell were you at then?
    13:29
    Sorry for that tangent, but that's an extra Patreon piece for you guys. Oh, clever. Clever gal. Anything to add to the end there? No. Thanks for the support. I'm just glad you can turn it off now. That's right. Turn it off.