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The Pinball Show Ep 94: Pinball Wishes & Arcade Dreams

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 32m·analyzed·Mar 14, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Stern backlogs dominate discussion as industry production delays and design issues plague new releases.

Summary

Episode 94 of The Pinball Show features guest host Jason Knapp discussing industry news including Stern's massive backorder situation (estimated 10,000+ units), the Rush scoop durability issues requiring multiple design iterations, American Pinball's AAMA Manufacturer of the Year nomination, Jersey Jack Pinball's acquisition of an anime license, and various code updates across Stern titles. The hosts explore market trends, pricing concerns, and production delays affecting the entire industry.

Key Claims

  • Stern has an estimated backorder of 10,000+ units due to COVID-related supply chain and production delays

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby correspondent segment; described as 'speculation' and 'estimates' from forums and chats

  • Stern cancelled the second Cornerstone release (April/May 2022) to focus on production of backorders for approximately three months

    high confidence · Hosts confirm Stern announced this to distribution network; Craig Bobby correspondent segment

  • Three months of Rush production may only eliminate 10-15% of Stern's total backorder amount

    medium confidence · Dennis states someone told him this; speculative analysis

  • Rush Premium and Pro machines ordered now can expect delivery into 2023

    high confidence · Craig Bobby correspondent segment reports distributors quoting delivery 'well into 2023'

  • Jersey Jack Pinball has obtained an anime license that may or may not become a future game

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg correspondent segment; described as first anime license in pinball industry

  • Rush scoops have gone through at least three design iterations due to durability issues where protectors crush and cause playfield damage

    high confidence · Jason Knapp details from personal knowledge; mentions scoops crush like old McDonald's ashtrays, requiring removal and mylar protection

  • Jason Knapp's NAP Arcade website receives over 15,000 visits per month

    high confidence · Jason directly states 'I think it's over 15,000 views or visits a month'

  • American Pinball was nominated for AAMA Manufacturer of the Year

    high confidence · Kaz correspondent segment; Stephen Bowden confirmed this nomination

  • Rumors suggest Keith Elwin's next Stern game is Back to the Future

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby correspondent segment describes this as rumor; notes Keith is 'very hush hush' about next game

Notable Quotes

  • “Stern once again almost defies what's possible by showing literally hundreds of Rush Premium Edition machines being assembled and put into boxes on a recent Instagram and YouTube video post taken from their enormous production facility just outside of Chicago.”

    Craig Bobby @ ~12:00 — Illustrates scale of Rush production push to address backorders despite other delays

  • “The scoops were made out of like recycled McDonald's ashtrays that would just crush instantly.”

    Jason Knapp @ ~35:00 — Colorful description of Rush scoop durability failure; becomes running joke about design quality

  • “One category that has yet to be exploited by any of the manufacturers is anime, the hugely popular animation style out of Japan... Jersey Jack Pinball has obtained an anime license, which it may or may not turn into a game in the future.”

    Ken Rudberg @ ~18:30 — First industry confirmation of JJP anime license; describes $50B global market opportunity

  • “If you were to order a rush right now that it came out in 2023 and then a new revised fourth version of the scoop came out sometime in 2024.”

    Jason Knapp @ ~36:00 — Speculates on multi-year scoop iteration cycle, indicating fundamental design problem

  • “I would at least suggest the Mylar, if not send someone just a square of it. I mean, how much would it cost them? Like $10 to send someone a square of Mylar?”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~38:00 — Criticism of Stern's lack of proactive customer support for known hardware issue

  • “The global anime market is projected to reach close to $50 billion by 2030.”

    Ken Rudberg @ ~18:45 — Market opportunity justification for JJP's anime licensing strategy

  • “They're going to want to have something... I could see maybe doing one more this year and then doing a later to start 2023.”

    Jason Knapp @ ~22:00 — Speculation about Stern's future release cadence and strategy to avoid appearance of stalled pipeline

Entities

Jason KnapppersonDennis CreaselpersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanyAmerican PinballcompanyKeith ElwinpersonCraig BobbypersonKen Rudbergperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern's estimated 10,000+ unit backorder and decision to cancel Cornerstone 2 indicates severe production bottleneck; three months of focused production may only reduce backlog by 10-15%

    high · Craig Bobby reports 10,000+ speculation; Jason Knapp cites third-party information suggesting three-month production sprint addresses only 10-15% of backlog

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball nominated for AAMA Manufacturer of the Year, indicating industry recognition despite boutique size

    high · Kaz correspondent segment reports nomination; Stephen Bowden confirmed details

  • ?

    community_signal: NAP Arcade's Jason Knapp growing media presence with 15,000+ monthly website visits and recent podcast appearances, demonstrating market for arcade/pinball content

    high · Jason confirms site receives 'over 15,000 views or visits a month'; mentions recent Slam Tilt podcast appearance

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Rush scoop design fundamentally flawed in execution; comparison to Data East machines suggests playfield damage aesthetic becomes unavoidable

    high · Jason states removing scoops 'chewing up the play field it was just taking ripping big chunks out of' and comparison 'gonna look like a data east'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball obtained anime license, positioning company for first anime pinball game in industry; $50B global anime market represents untapped opportunity for manufacturers

    high · Ken Rudberg correspondent segment confirms anime license acquisition; cites projected $50B market size by 2030

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.278

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. Here on episode 94 of The Pinball Show, we're introducing Jason Knapp of Knapp Arcade. We hear from three correspondents. We talk about Stern's Pinball Backlog and ScoopGate We cover an American Pinball Award nomination We discuss Jersey Jack Pinball and Anime We talk about Alien LV's finally shipping We discuss Funhaus 2.0 gameplay We cover the Deep Root Pinball auction We talk some unmarketable dream themes And of course, pinball market trends All this and more on episode 94 of the Pinball Show Pinball is a game of skill For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. Welcome, everybody, to the Pinball Show. This is episode 94. I am your host, Dennis Creasel, and today I've got a special guest host because people might not remember, but Zach is on a bit of a hiatus. We say it's a bit. These could be the warning signs. This could be the end. It could be the end of the Pinball Show. We don't know. But as the laughter in the background may tell you, I've been joined by a recent podcast star, Jason Knapp. Jason, welcome to the Pinball Show. Good morning. You got me an hour. Is it an hour earlier or an hour later than normal? I don't know. It is. It feels earlier because it should be earlier than it is really now. But we've actually advanced in time. I was caught off guard by the time change, but I made it here on the nose at the exact time. You were very proud to proclaim to me as if I did not have an atomically synced clock that, Dennis, I am on the dot. That's right. As in all things I do. So, Jason, you've been involved in pinball for a really long time. And my joke about podcast fame, of course, comes from the fact that you were very recently on the Slam Tilt podcast with Bruce Nightingale and Ron Hallett Jr. Yeah, yeah, that was a good time. I like those guys. Well, we don't have a good time here, so I'm glad you're actually here. I'm glad you got the good time out of the way because this is going to be horrible. But I knew you were doing that show. And unlike, I know, some other podcasts out there in the world, I did not immediately say, well, you know, we can't have you on for eight months now. You know my old story, do I want to drop all sorts of names and just make everyone angry? No, no. That's from personal experience that happened. I know that did. I knew it actually happened to you. But for those that like to see behind the scenes a little bit, that is something that podcasters do discuss like when having interviews. Well, case in point, total coincidence, and we even have a whole internal network with a discussion discord and everything, but we still ended up with just another pinball podcast and the Freeplay podcast, both having back-to-back episodes with Keith Ellwin as the interviewee. Well, I mean, if you're going to have a repetitive interview with someone, it might as well be the GOAT. But we were really encroaching on the loser kid turf there because he's like – what do they call that thing when you're in Vegas and you constantly have shows? There's like a thing. Oh, yeah. What is that? Like share or – Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's right into the Pimple Network at gmail.com. Tell us what that's called. A residency. Never mind. Don't write it. I don't want to ruin you. Residency. Yes. I know they just had one. Adele was supposed to have a residency, and she had like a nuclear meltdown, and it fell apart. Oh, yes, yes, and she cried. There were tears. I guess. Hence why she cried. That's about the extent of my knowledge of it. Okay, well, you know, you have been firing on, if not all cylinders, most of the cylinders recently, Jason. Your NAP Arcade website has been doing very well. Oh, yeah, thanks. You know, it's interesting. When you actually put effort into it, the numbers reflect that. I think we're up to like, well, I know it's the secret sauce, but I'll say I think it's over 15,000 views or visits a month. That's pretty good. It's going up. Yeah. And so you've been branching from your, because you very historically had social media roots. Your Facebook page is what I always still think of, of course, when I hear your name. Yeah, that's where everything started out. It was, you know, the Facebook page. I got into the origin story earlier, so I don't really need to get into all that again. But I was always on Facebook, and it was a couple of things. I don't think people recognize that as being as legitimate as having your own website. It just seems like, you know, like there was never any awards for any of that stuff until this year, the pinball industry did social media. And we realized, and I don't even remember, it wasn't my idea to add that one. I can't take credit for that. But the thought was, we turn to social media for so much of this stuff, so much of the discussion, so much of the information. In fact, most of the stuff comes out first on social media. So it only made sense to really recognize people that are pretty in a lot of time. And congratulations, you won not one, but two Pinball Industry Awards for 2021. I'm sorry, the sun was shining through the crystals into my eyes. I couldn't hear what you were saying. It's a rudimentary prism, a rainbow of glory has blinded you. I do understand. We are now officially an hour later. So the sun is shining. Thanks. Yes. Well, you know, part of the thing about starting the website, too, was, you know, I did, you know, traditionally I've done a lot of visits to arcades up and, well, I would say up and down the East Coast, but I also went to California a couple of things with my family. And so I take lots of pictures and write it up and, you know, describe the arcade. And, you know, that's a nice memory for me. And if I put it on Facebook, it basically eventually just kind of floats away into nothingness and disappears into the Facebook ether. So now I have all that stuff. I went back and put every single trip that we had gone on onto naparcade.org to populate it when it first started. So that's a nice memory for me that's not going to just disappear anymore. Yeah, and that is the biggest – at least with social – if not all social media, at least for the social media that is Facebook is if I need to go back and find something, oh, it is a chore. It is a chore. I mean, they'll give you like this year, five years ago today, this year. But like to find anything specific you're looking for, especially when I post so much stuff, it would be like impossible. Before we move on to our correspondence, you have what's been going on. Did you have gotten any new games recently or anything? I decided to fill my car with gas instead. That was about the same price. Gasoline joke this entire time. Oh, no, that's that was complete improv.

  • Jason Knapp ordered a Deadpool Pro in March 2021 and is still awaiting delivery; price increased $900 by January 2022

    high confidence · Jason confirms order timing and price increase directly in conversation

  • “I placed your order in 2021 as of January of this year its price went up to godzilla's price and that's not your fault.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~32:00 — Highlights pricing inequity for early pre-orders when prices increase between order and delivery

    • Kaz
    person
    Stephen Bowdenperson
    Rushgame
    Godzillagame
    Deadpoolgame
    Godzilla Premiumproduct
    Super Orbitgame
    NAP Arcadecompany
    Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
    Eclectic Gamers Podcastorganization
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Louisville Arcade Expoevent
  • $

    market_signal: Pricing for new games continues to increase; Jason Knapp notes $900 price increase on Deadpool between order and January 2022; describes looking at secondary market prices as personally depressing

    high · Jason Knapp directly states price increases and emotional impact of tracking market; mentions pricing 'got out of control'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Jason Knapp's Deadpool Pro ordered March 2021 still not delivered 14+ months later; second production run experiencing delays similar to first run

    high · Jason confirms March 2021 order date and ongoing wait; price increased $900 by January 2022

  • ?

    product_concern: Rush scoop protector design failed in field, requiring at least three design iterations; crushes easily and damages playfield when removed

    high · Jason Knapp detailed explanation of scoop failures; metaphor comparing to crushed McDonald's ashtrays; mentions balls getting stuck and playfield damage similar to Data East machines

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Keith Elwin's next Stern game rumored to be Back to the Future; described as both dream theme and imminent project

    medium · Craig Bobby notes Keith is 'very hush hush' but shares this as rumor; qualifier 'if not already' suggests timing uncertain

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern likely to maintain release cadence with Cornerstone 3 in August rather than skip entirely; may reorder game schedule if stronger theme available

    medium · Jason Knapp and Dennis discuss possibility of reordering game pipeline to capitalize on popular licenses, suggesting August target

    • 6:49
    But, yeah, just prices have gotten out of control. I used to have my finger on the pulse. Like I would go to Facebook – well, Facebook Marketplace has actually gotten big, but the Pinside Marketplace. And I knew what everything was selling for, and it started making me so sad. I just had to stop looking. So I have no market trend information because I'm so horrified by what's going on. Oh, no. Well, we'll cover that when we get to pinball market trends. But yeah, I have I hadn't it been almost three years since I had moved. Well, I guess two and a half years since I had moved any games. And that was in the sense that I sold one in 2020. But it hadn't been since 2019 that I had bought anything. So most people probably know, but I haven't done this show since then. But I had purchased a Godzilla premium from Flippin' Out Pinball and it did finally arrive. And so I've been playing that yesterday. In fact, it was the first time I got to my level two Kaiju. Oh, nice. And I did sell my Super Orbit, old Gottlieb game from 1983, and that got picked up on. The person actually, you know, I took all these. Sounds like a pretty good trade to me in terms of space allocation. Unfortunately, even as high as prices were, Super Orbit was not remotely near what I had to pay Zach. You got six grand for Super Orbit? I probably should have tried it. I sold it for $1,500. But the. Oh, wow. You know, I thought it was pretty. I looked on Pennside and they had a couple that it sold over the last year for more. But they had nicer play fields. And if you want a pinball machine, that's a fun thing to have for fifteen hundred. You know, and you don't want to spend. I'd had it for years and I'd done everything on it that that I really wanted to do. And so I got to the wizard mode. I got the you know, I maxed out the bonus. And so anyway, I take all these photos, even of the shooter lane, every board, my grounding mods, all of that. I put it up. It's sold in five minutes. I was just like, why did I do all this work? You should have just written the word pinball 1500 and it didn't matter what it is. It would have just sold instantly. Yeah. So the person person asked me, you know, said they really wanted it. But they you know, so they came and checked it out. I put it on pending and then they came another day and actually paid me the full price and then So it was on layaway for a while? Yeah well it was someone from the area I knew I was like you know they offered a deposit and I was like you know that's not necessary but they came and paid me and then they came another day this last week to actually pick it up so it was like three trips to get this game that they instantly wanted. Yeah that works So yeah so now I'm back to my seven and so that I have a game coming. I did buy something. I just haven't gotten it. Deadpool. I ordered Deadpool in March of 2021.
    9:41
    Deadpool Pro. Yeah, and we're actually going to touch on – actually, and that's what I'll use. What a great segue, Jason. So let's hear from our industry correspondents because I think we've got three of them ready to give us the scoop.
    9:54
    It's time for TPN Industry News. Hello and welcome to the Pinball Show's Stern News Update. I'm Craig Bobby. Well, if you're hearing the sound of silence in the pinball world these days, you wouldn't be alone, as Stern continues to go away from preparing for their next release to all-hands-on-deck production, as they literally began to produce and manufacture their way out of being buried alive by orders. Yes, there has been much speculation of late in various pinball forums and chats these days about just how many backorders the Stern Pinball Empire may have amassed over the last two years with supply chain and production delays due to COVID, with some estimates being well over 10,000 units. My lord. And while some pinball companies continue to struggle to show one game going out the production room door, Stern once again almost defies what's possible by showing literally hundreds of Rush Premium Edition machines being assembled and put into boxes on a recent Instagram and YouTube video post taken from their enormous production facility just outside of Chicago. A little late to the party and want to order a Rush Pro or Premium Edition machine? Well, better make that call quick to your local distributor as what few that are still available are going fast with many but not all distributors quoting well into 2023 for delivery. And if Keith Elwin designed games are more your thing and why wouldn't it be as Godzilla continues to hold down the number one spot as the highest rated pinball machine of all time? You can catch not one but two recent interviews with Keith Elwin himself on the Pinball Network Podcatcher, one with Just Another Pinball Podcast with Joel Engelberth, and the second on the Freeplay Pinball Podcast with Amanda Hamilton and Bill Webb. Both interviews are very entertaining and offer a great glimpse into the mind of Keith Elwin, Nicknamed by many in the pinball community as the greatest of all time As he talks pinball and rules design, tournament play and so much more Now we know Keith is being very hush hush about his next game So don't worry, we won't tell anyone about the rumors that Back to the Future Is not only one of Keith's dream themes But also the title that he will be designing very soon, if not already Shh, why am I whispering? I don't know but it sounds super annoying And what would a Stern update be without catching up on Stern's latest code releases? First up, we have The Mandalorian, as Dwight Sullivan's latest Star Wars baby finally makes its debut onto the Stern Insider Connected platform. Yes, Stern Pinball has posted new Mandalorian code, V1.20. This is the way. We also have new Led Zeppelin code, V1.14. And last but certainly not least, we have a massive new code update for Rush, V.90, for the Pro Premium and Limited Edition models. All these codes contain tons of game enhancements, additional polish, game adjustments, and bug fixes. Well, that's all for this week for the Pinball Show. I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side. Hey, this is Kaz with an update on American Pinball. I reached out to Stephen Bowden. He informed me that American Pinball was nominated by the AAMA. the American Amusement Manufacturer Association for the Manufacturer of the Year. And also the AMOA, the Amusement and Music Operators Association, is hosting the Amusement Expo International. This is March 14th through 17th in Las Vegas. American Pinball will be there at booth 1448. And also this past weekend, I was out here at the Louisville Arcade Expo. It was a great time to see everyone. I was helping out here at the Flippin' Out booth with Zach and Nicole. Had a great time playing pinball with everyone. I hope everybody has a great week and has fun playing pinball. For the Pinball Show, this is Brian Kosner. Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. Jersey Jack pinball games have had an eclectic range of themes, from classic movies to more modern films, a rock theme, and even an original theme in Dialed In. With an animated movie theme anticipated to be up next, there are always questions about what Jersey Jack pinball could be up to in the future. One category that has yet to be exploited by any of the manufacturers is anime, the hugely popular animation style out of Japan. If you're wondering if there's a market for anime outside of Japan, then you only have to look at the numbers. The global anime market is projected to reach close to $50 billion by 2030. So why am I talking about anime on the Jersey Jack update? Well, it's because Jersey Jack Pinball has obtained an anime license, which it may or may not turn into a game in the future. If they did, it would be a first for the industry. So it will be interesting to see how and if this anime theme sees the light of day. And it looks like Jersey Jack Guarnieri himself is back at it, personally delivering a game for a recent customer. He'll also be at the Texas Pinball Festival presenting a seminar with Steve Ritchie on Friday the 25th. Looking forward to that. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg.
    15:19
    I don't always say Jason, but I often say thanks to all of our correspondents for all of their great coverage. And tying back into that transition into them, which I had mentioned from your prior statement about awaiting Deadpool, we're going to go ahead and start with Stern Pinball. So Craig had talked about the backlogs. A lot of people know we previously reported on that Stern had announced to their distribution network that the second cornerstone was not going to happen. That would normally be something in like an April or May period. And instead, they were going to be getting caught up on all of these games that they owe people. They have so many pending orders. Now, Craig had reported that discussions have been far ranging, but there have been reports slash, I guess, maybe more speculation that Stern could be as much as 10,000 units behind on orders. I heard someone had told me that this whole cornerstone delay, I guess, what is it, three months essentially, that Bitstern just producing backordered games for three months might only whittle 10 to 15 percent off the total backorder amount or backlog that they have sitting right now. So that's pretty crazy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and so, I mean, it would almost make me wonder, and I'll ask you this question because I am wondering it. Do you think that Stern might end up, I don't know if caving is the right word, but… Planting the next one? Yeah.
    16:48
    I don't think so. I think they're going to want to have something. I could see maybe doing one more this year and then doing a later to start 2023. That would seem to make more sense. You don't want to make it look like you're just dead in the water. I think you do. If you did one now, then you could maybe push back the next one a little bit. That's a that's a good point. What about what about how about this instead? Let's say they do keep the I guess what we'd consider the third cornerstone position as their second cornerstone release of this year as currently planned. But drop any, say, boutique stuff. You know, there's a lot of rumors that they specified the second cornerstone going away because they still plan to put out a Kapow title. this year. I've seen a lot of people playing the semantics game with that saying, oh, look, they didn't say it wouldn't be a vault or it wouldn't be this or that. But someone had posted a conversation they had with Gary Cern at a trade show very recently. And I mean, who knows whether he's telling the truth or not or anything else. But he basically said, no, it's just not another game. Not any of these Kapow, Vault, whatever. It was just they're not doing, they're doing the next one in, when is this supposed to be? August?
    18:06
    You know, I don't know anymore. I think it's August. Yeah. I think they're going to do the next one in August, which is rumor. But the question is, there is a good question as to what title it'll be is I could see them if their next title was going to be something that's kind of, eh, in terms of a theme, maybe rearranging the order of multiple games are done and coming out with something that rocks. Cause I like rush and I like the rush pin, But a lot of people are like, man, this sucks. And if they come out with another game that not everyone is universally going to love back to back after pushing it back, you know, they may decide to put something if they've got a real hot license up their sleeve, try to move that into the order next and then push back whatever originally was scheduled to be the second release of this year to a later date. I could see them doing that. Well, I had heard on the rumor on the last episode of the Eclectic Gamers podcast that. Oh, plug, plug. That, well, come on, come on. No, but I had heard in their very popular rumor corner segment, Jason, that Cornerstone number two was purported to be Venom and that it has not been moved to the Cornerstone three position. But that Cornerstone 3 was still going to be what was going to be Cornerstone 3, which supposedly is James Bond. But I don't know. Uh-huh. I mean, maybe that's why I listened to that episode of Eclectic. So it probably subliminally planted that into my brain. Well, you know, the goal with them is to rumor-tane you. So whether it's true or not, it really comes down to the quality of the story. Their batting average is about 100. I'm going to really discuss the accurate. Let's just say podcasts don't have a great track record on speculation in general. EGP might be benefiting from the curve on that. If you were in baseball, you'd definitely be demoted to the minor leagues, I'm pretty sure. Speaking of a hobby that's coming back or a sport. There are plenty of farm teams out there for a mixed media podcast like EGP to thrive in.
    20:11
    Fly over country needs their baseball too. Yes. Now, so also as part of what Craig was talking about in his correspondent segment was Rush. So that's the most recent. That's seen as the first cornerstone of 2022, even though technically a December reveal.
    20:28
    Noting that if you were to go to your distributors at this point and place an order for a Rush Pro or a Rush Premium, that it is reasonable to expect that you could be waiting into sometime in 2023 to get the game. So what do you think about that? Stern just shared a video, and it was interesting. It didn't go on their Facebook. That's why it took me a day to find it. It just went straight to Stern's Instagram account. They did a short video of Rush Premiums on the line and all the various assembly lines. So the Rush Premiums are going out right now for sure. I know that. I think that they're on their third iteration of the dreaded scoop that keeps getting bashed up. So, you know, it would make sense if maybe those are just filling the original orders, though. I wouldn't be surprised if you ordered a rush right now that it came out in 2023 and then a new revised fourth version of the scoop came out sometime in 2024. Right. And my interpretation of Craig's segment was that he was talking about if you were to order a new one, like as of today, not that people who had already ordered are somehow going to get pushed back into 2023. three right now i know they're cranking them out right now so yeah it's it's interesting i mean and i had heard earlier in fact i was expecting my godzilla to come towards the end of this month because my understanding was that pros and premium godzillas were were being prepped to be sent out for distributors this month as well so from back you know people so you got it early you know sometimes uh sometimes i do know people so so so you never know you never know but um and the same can be said for you know anyone who plays i mean i could see if like someone gets out of an order obviously that frees up a position that someone who thought they're going to get rushed premium in 2023 might end up getting a 2022 older run unit that always happens uh now here's a let's i want to raise the stakes for you jason though so from zero because that's what they are right now what you're not getting a rush oh yeah no actually uh yeah uh let me raise the stakes first and i want to go back to the scoop so uh in terms of you and your deadpool and you've been waiting quite a while for the deadpool yes should you get your deadpool before these people are ordering the russian uh premium and pro well i mean i can kind of see i mean it was always a second run or i guess i don't know if it's more than second but uh of the deadpool this is not the original run of it so So I mean Stern has the rights to do that run whenever they feel like it I guess I mean the only reason why i ordered it at the time is because i had heard they were doing another run but it not like stern was out there like saying hey we're running dead ghouls now it was just kind of like the rumor mill almost sort of yeah i mean i i get that but on the flip side of it you placed your order in 2021 as of january of this year its price went up to godzilla's price and that's not your fault Well, yeah, that's a big deal. I mean, it went up a lot. Yeah. I mean, do you have a premium or a pro on order? I can only afford a pro at this point. But that was still, what, a $900 increase? One of the things that I like a lot about the Deadpool is, for me personally, I don't think there's that much of a difference between the pro and the premium, especially if you just slap a disco ball mod into the pro. I mean, I know there's one other shot. That Orbit shot might disagree with you. Yeah, I know there's one other Orbit shot that people are all into, but I don't know. For me, it seems like if you're going to do one, that's one of the reasons why I have the, you know, a lot of the games I have are, I have a Guardians of the Galaxy Pro. And, you know, that one, the gameplay difference is mainly, I mean, there's spinners, but it's mainly just the arms, like who cares, the Groot arms. And I have Game of Thrones Pro, and a lot of people like that better than the Premium, you know with the upper play field they like the way the play so i like to get the pros that you know aren't missing a lot i guess in terms of because i do have a Jurassic Park premium because a dinosaur eating balls is cool that's true yeah i'm a big fan of pros even and and knowing sometimes even when i compromise on them so like uh well i haven't had Deadpool but i had looked at a pro at one point that's the one i had the most time on on location i thought it was a lot of fun uh and so you know walking dead was a that one was one i was really torn on because i had so much time on the le and i actually didn't buy walking dead when i originally was interested because i had never played a pro and i refused to buy one until i actually got to see if it was still fun that sounds reasonable and it is i mean i like i actually like the the geometry like the left ramp and stuff is a lot better in my view on the walking dead pro but you do give up the walker bombs which is a really fun strategic option uh multi-ball so anyway you know it's a give and a take except i agree with you totally on on guardians of the galaxy i never saw the value in the premium i just never did um but let's go back to the scoop this is really fitting for you actually to cover because you have been getting scoops left and right on your nap arcade website in fact i was going to call you the kellogg's raisin brand of pinball news at this point except you have more than two scoops. Oh, snap. It doesn't work. I don't know that calling someone as a nickname, Kellogg's Raisin Bran, really rolls off the tongue either. Right. Well, it was going to be more like a moniker. I wasn't going to use it as a nickname. That's my UFC fight name.
    26:09
    Jason, two scoops now. Because everyone loves raisins. It's not intimidating. So anyway, you mentioned issues with the rush scoops, and I don't think we've talked about that on the pinball show. So do you give a breakdown of what's going on with it? Because I've actually heard I've heard a bit about it, but I've not looked into it myself. So, yeah, I mean, it pretty much seems as though the first rushes that went out, the scoop protectors were basically, you know, it's funny. I date myself or make myself look old. I'm not actually like dating myself. That sounds weird when you say it like that, but I make myself sound old when I use this reference. But back when I was younger, when people were still allowed to smoke at McDonald's, they had these ashtrays on the table and you could pick up the ashtrays. They were made out of metal, but you could just like crush it in your hand. Like that's, it was just like the scoops were made out of like recycled McDonald's ashtrays that would just crush instantly.
    27:12
    I'm loving it. Is that their slogan? Question mark. I love it. Question mark. Yeah. So, like, I don't know. I guess people are saying that just the way they don't attach underneath the play field or something, I don't know the mechanics of it, but they were just getting bashed up repeatedly to the point where the balls would just get stuck after a very, very low number of games. And then people were removing the scoops so they could play their new $6,000 toy and not just let it be an ornament. but then it was just chewing up the play field it was just taking ripping big chunks out of yeah it's gonna look like a data east yeah so i mean i think if i had one i would have taken it remove the scoop and put mylar around the entire hole you know you know you can get those like uh stickers of mylar sort of thing oh yeah yeah actually i did that with my uh total nuclear annihilation because you know it didn't come with scoop protectors and the rapid fire the main scoop the left scoop on that game real early, like within 50 plays, it was cleared to the scoop, but I actually got a chip in the clear. Like it didn't chip away, but you could see where it's separated from the small strikes. And I thought, I don't really want that to spread. And I contacted Cliffy, but there weren't any, any pending plans, I believe for him to actually have a protector. I think he was having an issue with engineering one for one of the spots, given how they were positioned or something. So anyway, long story short, I got one of those sheets of Mylar and I just cut a little thing and I just, you know, a little piece of it. And I made my own little edge protector with Mylar and it never got any worse. No, that's exactly what I would do, too. I think that you can get the full sheet. You just cut it to the exact size you want, wrap it around and then boom. I don't think I really don't think it would chip if you were doing that to it. Yeah. I mean, I only have my one example, but I've never had any issues since. You know, Mylar was used for years successfully for a reason. So, yeah, the sheets are super cheap. that just stays rolled up on my shelf, and if I need to cut a little piece off again, I can do so. That's a pretty good thing to have on hand. So we've solved it. Well, pretty much. I don't know. Or you can just send out Mylar things.
    29:18
    Well, I mean, honestly, if I was stern and people were waiting for this, I would at least suggest the Mylar, if not send someone just a square of it. I mean, how much would it cost them? Like $10 to send someone a square of Mylar? That would go a long way towards making people happy and being allowed to play their game. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it wouldn't be. I mean, the Mylar itself is super cheap. They'll spend more on shipping than they will on Mylar. Nowadays.
    29:43
    But I think that they did come out with a revised scoop, and that still wasn't cutting it. So I think they're on the third, at least what I hear, they're on the third iteration of the scoop now. So I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure the ultimate goal is to have a viable protector, metal protector to go in that they'll just install moving forward and then can send, I guess, send to people. um you know something like a mantis or something but obviously in-house i don't think they're gonna they're gonna go to a third party so for whatever reason okay well thanks for yet another scoop from a scoop scoop yeah a scoop on scoops yeah speaking of scoops uh we also heard in the correspondent segment american pinball they have been nominated by the amaa or the american amusement machine association for manufacturer of the year you know is it i don't know is it Is it an acronym or is it an initial? Right into the pinball show. I call them A-A-M-A. Like A-A-Ron from Team Peel. Team Peel, yeah.
    30:47
    A-A-M-A. Right into us and let us know. Is this an acronym or is it an initialism? I don't know. But anyway, so Manufacturer of the Year. So I know Stern sometimes has promoted their Manufacturer of the Year awards. I guess this is an award yet. it's a nomination i don't know when the awards are done and uh there was some information about them being out at vegas uh you know obviously i think the big thing that everyone would want to know is is american pinball going to be at texas pinball festival with a new game and i have heard nothing of the sort i was going to say already it still seems pretty close to legends of ahala to me yeah but that game was already designed by riot that's a reasonable point but i guess it depends on how far along in manufacturing them they are. I've seen a lot of unboxing. Someone was saying not that long ago that they don't see anybody unboxing it. That's nonsense. I see lots of unboxing photos of it. It's out there. They just weren't looking for it like you. I guess. They don't scoop the same way. It still seems a little close to Valhalla for me to think that they would introduce something at Texas. I would hope so because Texas isn't getting anything now really. Nothing that I'm aware of. I don't think anybody's going to unveil anything there. I mean, it will be the first hands on experience for most people with Weird Al. That is true. That's that's what Texas will have. That's unique to that wasn't at any other. I mean, I don't think it's at the what's Louisville show this week. I don't think Weird Al's there. So. So, yeah. Yeah. No, it's not going to be the rumor at one point was there was going to be Jersey Jack reveal at Texas. And I'm ninety nine point nine nine nine percent sure that's not happening. I don't even think there's going to be a trailer or anything. No, by all reports, March is not happening for their next game at JJP. I don't think it's happening at TPF, and I don't think that JJP is going to be revealing anything at the Midwest Gaming Classic, MGC, which is the next big show after TPF.
    32:44
    It's pretty close after, yeah. I should probably figure that out because I'm flying out to it. When are you going to Texas, Jason? Where am I going to do what? Why are you not going to TPF? Oh, I don't know. I mean, I guess I've never thought about why I'm not doing it now. Well, I wanted to go to a show and a good friend of mine who I always go to the shows with wanted to meet up with the people who do the Broken Token podcast. It's an arcade. Yeah. Yeah. So we're supposed to be and Brent. Yeah. Yes. So a friend of mine and I are going to meet up with the Broken Token people at MGC. I like their show. Yeah. It's a it's probably one of the most popular classic arcade shows. And they talk pinball too for folks, but I have to warn everyone, very, very tech heavy, very tech heavy. I think their last show was like three hours too. Those shows are always long. If you criticize long podcasts, that one's definitely not. It's sort of interesting because if you host a podcast and any podcaster is listening, know this is true. You get criticism from all angles. You'll have people who love something that you do and hate something that you do, and it's the same thing. And you're like, OK, well, how do you take that? You have to learn to roll with it. I mean, I remember they used to do their mailbag on Broken Token. And there was someone who would beg for them to be even longer because he trained for marathons and wanted to hear the same show from the start of his training to the end of his training. And so that's what it is. And I'm sure they probably get some going. Your show's really good because you run a marathon. I think it would take me a full day. Can they do a full day podcast? Well, yeah, you know, yeah, I would be I would be terrible at it. But I think for most people, when they're training for marathons, they don't run the full distance. So that, too, is what's seen as like a what's like world record ask like four hour marathons or only top world tier people or something. I don't know. I write in just how wrong I have been about long distance running. I'm because I've never done it. I get too easily winded. In any event, we're going to meet up with those cool guys, and that was the reason why we picked MGC over TPF. Well, I hear great things about MGC. Yeah, I mean, there was no big reveals that I was aware of at TPF anyway, so I was just like, well, I'd rather roll the dice and see if something comes to MGC than go to TPF knowing that there's not going to be anything there. Yeah, sorry, Weird Al. It's not good enough for Jason. There will be a Weird Al at MGC. I'll get to play it a week later. Big deal.
    35:14
    Okay. It's not like it's the official unveiling of it. We've all seen it. You're right. I hope you're not just stuck still playing old rushes.
    35:24
    Now, back to American Pinball, though. So I agree with your point about it seems really early versus Valhalla. However, where I will push back on you, Jason, is David Fix, for it feels like two years now, has been explaining to all of us that their plan is to do three games a year. I think everybody plans to do games more frequently than they run into the manufacturing buzzsaw that we have right now. And all those plans kind of go out the window. I don't know. I think Spooky seems to stick with their schedule pretty close and not be all like, yeah, we're going to do two games a year. Yeah. I mean, I just think most people would like to come out. I don't think Jersey Jack wants to do one game every year and a half. Well, they've been saying two games a year for years and years now. And everyone's just had so many supply chain issues. Yeah. But this I mean, with them, at least it predates the pandemic. So I don't. Yeah. Let's go into Jersey Jack. You brought him up. Sure. Here we go. So so Ken Rudberg gave us the correspondent segment. And first, I need to I need to give him a full set of kudos, Jason. OK. He has used the most unique English pronunciation of anime I have ever heard in my entire life. Onime. It's got to be some form of just... Maybe that's a Japanese pronunciation. No. So anyway, I always called it anime, and all the people I know who are hardcore into anime call it anime. So just so the listeners know, I will be using the word anime instead of Onime. But I was listening to the segment for editing purposes, and I was like, I'm not sure what he's talking about. And I finally, it clicked. So Ken reports that there is an anime license that is actually controlled by JJP. They have it. And that they may turn it into a game. Hmm. So it sounds like they haven't decided. Like, they got a license, but they're not sure they want to use it. But if they were to use it, he noted that this would be the very first anime pinball game. So, I don't know, Jason. Are you big into anime? Do you have a guess as to what it might be?
    37:35
    I definitely wouldn't say that I'm big into anime. That's not really my thing. I know my sons watched that Naruto thing. Okay, Naruto I think is a good guess because Jersey Jack tends to stay family friendly. Yeah, why not? The Naruto I always thought was really funny because remember when it was maybe a year or two ago when all those people on social media were saying they're going to storm Area 51? Oh, yeah, Naruto after Naruto. They were going to Naruto run through Area 51 so they were faster than all the bullets. It's like when you run with both your arms behind your back. heck that's what that always makes me think of the animes i've seen are so much older than naruto i still think of that as the battle athletes run yeah i have not an anime very many people are gonna know no i i don't know a whole lot about anime that's not a bad guess uh one piece uh i've never seen it but that's the one with the the pirate dude with the straw hat that one seems pretty family there was an anime for pokemon but i would think they would do more the video game approach for Pokemon. If you're going to do Pokemon, I think that would actually be a reasonably good choice for a title. I think it would be a great choice. It's a pretty well-known IP and then you could have battles with different... It would be like battling the Kaiju or whatever in Godzilla. You pick your starter Pokemon, maybe you'd try and evolve them as you play. Again, that one I'd see more as grabbing the video game rather than... I don't think they would call that an anime license. Yeah, there was a cartoon that was in the early 2000s I think, but I wouldn't go that route. I mean, gosh, big. I just don't, I don't know what them kids today watch anymore. Attack on Titan is pretty big, but that's incredibly gory. I think this right here is pretty much showing that that's a problem. Like, if we can't name one that we're like, oh, that would be awesome, then no one else likes pinball. I could, like, one of the biggest animes that the American public would know is Cowboy Bebop. So. Yeah, but that was like a failed Netflix show or whatever. But again, maybe JJP got the anime license going, hey, this is going to be fresh on people's minds because there's the Netflix show. Maybe, but they didn't even get renewed. No, no, it was terrible is from what I heard. But there are very fond memories, and it was very mainstream back in the early 2000s. So people with money might remember the actual anime of it. Maybe. And be like, let's get that at a really cool jazz soundtrack. The characters were fun. Who doesn't want to see a Welsh Corgi hacking computers? I mean, it's got all that going for it. Of all the possible themes in the entire world, they're going to pick something where you're kind of like, what? What is that? I just don't see it happening. You know, I would like, this came up on social media when I was chatting with, Oh, it was about when I got the when the Godzilla came out, when I not when Godzilla came out. So when I got my Godzilla, I posted a little video clip on my personal Facebook and someone had asked me, oh, are you going to learn Japanese because you can play the game in Japanese? And I quoted a very famous meme line from Fist of the North Star. So and then I someone else responded the the proper meme callback to it. And I said, you know, I would like to see a Fist of the North Star anime for pinball because I think it would work really well. But that show was so violent. There is no way Jersey Jack got it. There's actually an anime homebrew now that I think of it. That's pretty new. And I'm going to I didn't like I didn't research this at all. So I'm going to have no idea about any of this. Maybe you can use your editing magic and put it back in after the fact. But the dude I'm pretty sure it's the dude who did Steamboat Willie. You ever see the black and white Steamboat Willie homebrew? I've seen some photos of it. So he did Ghost in the Shell, is what you're saying? No, no, he didn't do Ghost in the Shell. That is another one. But he made an anime-esque pinball machine based on members of his family, I believe. Oh, okay. And, like, his wife is one of the characters, and his children are some of the characters. And it's like a whole anime video custom pinball machine. It's really neat. I think that was the follow-up homebrew after Steamboat Willie by that guy. That's interesting. I'd have to look into that. I apologize if it was somebody else, and I'm just giving away your – No, no. Write it in the pinball.com and tell us if Jason was wrong. Send your emails to ZachMinney at –
    42:01
    Flip the letter in, pinball out, pinball – I don't know what it is. I forget. Flip N out. Yeah, flip N, the letter N. We have to say that because otherwise people will think you're just saying and but slurring it. So we'll send all your hate to him. That would be great. Yeah. Yes. Do that. Yeah. Because as Ken noted, this would be first anime, first commercial anime. The only homebrew I knew of was was Ghost in the Shell, which I remember. And it's based off of the standalone complex anime because they were animated. They're older ones as well. Sound complex, incidentally, really, really good. That wouldn't have been a bad one to pick up. But anyway, so that's the news. So something that's not about Toy Story. Yeah. You know, it'll be interesting to see. I've heard people saying that there's rumblings. It won't actually be Toy Story, but I don't believe that for a second. Toy Story has been available, been ready for like four years. Yeah. You know, the closest I ever bought into that was the notion that Toy Story may have been before Guns and Roses because it was closer to the release of the fourth film. that would have made sense i thought it would have made more sense but even back then you know most of the reports were no it's going to be eric's game it's going to be so is gnr and it was so no yeah toy story like the last of the major ex-disgruntled employee leaks you know we've been sitting on me that's how we've been people think we like have this magical crystal ball or or that jersey jack's leaking like a sieve it's just that that former defector was i had the whole list and it's been feeding from the disgruntled employee rumor trough for five years Now it's finally done. It's like all been right. And they've been so slow at putting out games that we've just been able to milk it for years. So this is where you insert one of those. Thanks, random leaky guy, you know, beer commercial style for giving us content so freely. now moving outside of what our correspondents have touched on you jason have noted that alien the lv not le lv version is now shipping it is and i saw and i i don't remember which show it was so that probably makes for terrible podcasting but they're going to bring one of the lvs to uh an upcoming show pretty soon it might be mgc i'm not sure which one they're bringing it to but pinball brothers is going to have or or one of their distributors anyways is going to have one of the alien lvs uh for play at a show i hope they do because i'd love to get some pictures of it at mvc mgc if it's there have you ever played any version of alien shockingly i have not actually you know i i i don't have any friends who have one my one friend who's like the rich dude who has all the awesome games does not have one and then like they're never on location around here really yeah i i'd be shocked i mean i i bet there are some on location i'm just you have i think maintenance would be an issue i just talked to someone this week who said they've gone through like four or three or four of the computers that just keep frying yeah whatever they use to run it i've heard that pinball brothers has been providing support but and that it's more stable than the old highway version which is the only version i've played but that it's still yeah it's not this version is better than the company that went bankrupt yes yeah but that unfortunately it's still uh uh maintenance and servicing is is a struggle even for the pinball brothers version i heard that they come and they're like never like you have to like mod it just to get it to do what it's supposed to do out of the box essentially that's what i've heard i don't know i don't have like i said i don't have one nor do i have good friends that have one so but i've heard that it's not ideal well speaking of fun funhouse 2.0 now you've been able to check out some of uh the i guess footage of it at the streams yeah there was a couple of streams don't cross the streams yeah the uh uh there was uh more money pinball we had one that was on location in canada that was on loan from nitro pinball it was uh actually on like earning on location at i think it was a bowling alley or, but you know, a place that had a bunch of pinball machines and they were going to, they, they were scheduled to stream it this week And then uh I believe a TPN affiliate uh wild dog arcade uh they they streamed it one day before the uh scheduled uh uh more money stream so i got to see it streamed twice this week on twitch i guess that's the the short answer to my long-winded response is i yes i saw funhouse 2.0 streamed twice this week on twitch and it looks cool Oh, yeah. I still have only seen the scene still images. I just want someone to answer why they put the mayonnaise on the hot dog. That's not I know that you guys are who is Zach anti ketchup or pro. No, he's he's the person who puts ketchup on everything like a child. OK. You know, I remember I remember the condiment discussions in this show. We don't need to revisit that. Just go into like the bull emoji icon stuff and all the things. And if you type in hot dog, what appears, it's a hot dog on a bun with mustard on it. And there's a reason for that. I'm the ketchup guy. I'm not anti-mustard, though. How about both? Why not both? You ever see that meme? It's not a hamburger. Okay. You're throwing ketchup on a hot dog. The whole Pedretti is the manufacturer that is, I think they're doing the aliens, too, right? They're the ones who are manufacturing. Pedretti is an Italian company. I'm pretty sure they're the ones who are contract manufacturing the Aliens machines for Pinball Brothers. I believe that is correct. Yes. Yeah, because they're the ones who are doing all of the, well, all of the, so far one, the Funhaus 2.0 kits. And it was funny. I actually broke that story on my page because one of the distributors jumped the gun and had it listed. And it just popped up on my Facebook page. And it was like Funhaus 2.0. and no one had even like whispered about it or anything yet. I was like, wait, what? What is this? And it went away like 10 seconds later, but I had snapshotted it. And you were just like, looks like another scoop for me. Yeah. But so I've been in on it since the beginning. But, you know, I just think it's awesome that you can take a game that's already, you know, popular and considered an all-time classic in Funhaus, add a second playable, essentially a second playable game to it, and then allow people to switch back and forth between the original and the new, you know, it adds new life to older games. I think that's partially, if you want to tie it into a market trend segment, fun houses have been going for pretty big bucks. And I think that might be partially why is that it breathes some new life into the market for the fun houses, because you can essentially get more out of it now. That was, I think, the parallel that a lot of people will think of is when Dutch Pinball did the Bride of Pinball 2.0 kits. And honestly, I always thought that Dutch Pinball, it would have made a lot more sense for them to continue to go that route. In fact, it's not Funhaus, also one of those early WMS, you know, non-DMD, but it was moving past System 11. Right. Thus, it had these capabilities to be upgraded, sort of like Bride did. They just did a short run of Bride of Pinball 2.0. I did read about that. I guess they're not busy building TBLs. I have no idea. But it probably needed some more cash infusion or something. Yeah, I would think, yeah. But, you know, going back to the Pedretti Funhouse 2.0, you know, I really hope this is well received. Because if it is, there was talk that they're going to do another 2.0 once a year for classic Williams games. So something like Black Knight 2000 or Whirlwind or Earthshaker. I mean, something of the same era would be likely to be the next one to get a 2.0. and that would be really cool. Yeah, I can't buy a Funhaus. The creepy head is too creepy. No, dude, those heads creep me out. I had a road show for a while, and Red and Ted just creeped me out too. Plus their eyeballs always break, and it was real pain in the ass.
    50:15
    It's unfortunate. I was just going to say one more thing since we're on this. They just came out with a new e-commerce site, Pedretti, to sell the Funhaus 2.0 kits that launched this week, and there's a big section on there. Well, they're selling a lot of Rudy t-shirts. I'm going to get you a Rudy t-shirt that has Rudy on it. I'm going to get you a Rudy t-shirt that you can wear around. I could do a hot dog with mayo t-shirt. I think they might have that. There's like seven or eight different variations of it. I'm going to look and see. I shared an article about it on my site, but the point of this was that they're going to have a topper, and I know that toppers are near and dear to this show's heart. So, yeah, like in a collective sense, I suppose.
    51:01
    So, you know, Pedretti has always done aftermarket toppers for Planetary Pinball and Williams Games, and they had a Funhaus topper, but there's a new one coming out. So I'm wondering if it's going to be a new super high end animated Rudy or some form of Funhaus related topper, because they have it listed on their site with just question marks. And then it says topper. So it's coming at some point in the future and it'll probably be pretty awesome if because they already have a regular topper for it. Why would they advertise that? So it's probably something much more involved and fancy would be my guess. Well, we will just have to wait and see. Yeah. Speaking of waiting and seeing, there is much abated breath out there waiting and seeing what's coming up on the Deep Root pinball auction. What are you buying, Jason? Yeah, actually, it would be I think that stuff a lot of people are saying they want to buy it and light and fire. I think it's pretty disrespectful to the people who designed the you know, the people who went there to work at Deep Root when it first started didn't know that it was a scam. I mean, they were just looking to work in the hobby that they love. yeah you know it's one of those interesting things where you can see there's the perspective of it's the hard work of these creative people that unfortunately because of poor and i'm being very generous to saying poor management uh doesn't really get to see see life most likely ever that has to be some sort of business textbook example of poor management going forward yeah yeah probably it might be a couple examples but then on the flip side there others are like this is deep root branded stuff it there was a lot of fraud with allegedly allegedly yes yeah i pled that i plead the fifth yeah yes well i'm not pleading the fifth but i'm saying allegedly to keep myself safe and and because of that that they would rather like that deep root is a stain on the hobby and thus should be cleansed with fire no i mean i think you have to embrace history if you if you erase what happened at deep root from history then it's just going to happen again i mean in theory and then someone might say well just take some good photos before you burn it all yeah i mean i don't care i find it interesting anyway i don't think most people are going to be buying and burning all of the stuff so no no i just find it interesting to see what all the designs were yeah it's i mean so far i i don't know what's going to do like obviously they've got some pretty high-end equipment there that some corporate types might end up getting a good deal on that might draw some you know the nice thing about the auction that we one should bear in mind is that the sales from these things will help benefit the creditors that are owed money. So you do want the, in theory, if you're concerned about the creditors, you do want the auction to do well. Yeah. The people whose retirement funds got stolen will benefit if these sell at higher prices. It's interesting you were talking about the big machines. There was talk in the threads and someone had approached, I don't know who goes on there from Spooky, Spooky Luke maybe. and someone was asking Spooky whether they'd be a buyer of any of the equipment there. And they were saying, you know, some of it's pretty cool, but a lot of it's even overkill for what we need. So that just shows how wasteful that was in terms of what Robert Mueller doesn't even have anything to build. And he's buying this crazy ass machines, you know, that even established manufacturers are like, oh, that's a little bit much. Yeah, I want to think. Someone thought one of the machines was to like to silkscreen print on circuit boards. Oh, yeah, you read that. Yeah, like you're going to build. I do read a few things. And they were like, but who who who makes who fabs circuit boards in-house? You order those from China. No one fabs them in-house. It's so expensive to do. You just set up the ability to do it. It's so cheap to buy circuit boards. I mean, my dad is a retired electrical engineer. He has his sources in China where he just he'll he'll throw together a circuit board for fun and order a set of 10 from them. And it's super affordable. Are you coming out with your own line of replacement boards? Is that what I hear then? You should leverage your dad and his Chinese connections. That's awesome. I do still have a few baggies of his his handmade NVRAM chips. I used to give those away on EGP. Yeah, I'm replacing this with a creasel board because it's been blown out. Some of them might have been EGP branded even. I'm not – I'll go back and check the baggie. I remember those. Those were a long time ago. Yeah, my Super Orbit I let go. It uses one of those for Gottlieb System ADA. I got chips for basically anything. That makes it more valuable, I would assume. Yes, yes. That's why I was able to sell it in five minutes was the NVRAM. I advertised that along with the silicon bands and probably the most time-consuming thing, that it had the full grounding mods installed. I put titans on everything. I like the titan bands. I could not remember if I do believe those were – I bought the translucent titans for that, but some of my silicon bands are pinball life. So when I can't remember, I just say they're silicon. Right. I can command more if I tell them it's titan, but I know a couple times I did buy non-titan. So I have to be careful because I always want to be accurate. So anyway, Deep Root Auction. I know a lot of people are interested in getting deeper water bottles. I saw there was a lot that seemed to have whitewoods, but unfortunately it sounded like there were, I mean, that it was just truly just the cuts. Like you couldn't tell what, it's not like they'd make good wall art because there was no, there was one that was really cool. That was supposedly, and you know, people like take these pictures and zoom in on them and dissect them every which way. And one of the whitewoods was someone claimed was a game that was going to be called Yukon Yeti, which was essentially Dennis Nordman's Whitewater 2.0.
    56:50
    That's pretty cool. I've always liked Whitewater. I'm terrible at it, though. I have such a hard time with that bonus shot on the multi-ball when everything's flying around down below, and then you have to try to hit the waterfall up top. I'm so bad at that. But I think that game is just so awesome. The whole design of it's beautiful. The ramps are cool. I'm just not good at it. Well, now that Dennis is with AP, do you think he'll do a spiritual successor to Whitewater with them? You know, that's what I was wondering. I mean, I don't know how the intellectual property works. Like, do you think that Deep Root, if he designed a Yukon Yeti, which is a Whitewater 2.0, do you think that they would own the rights to that? Or do you think he could just walk right over to AP and be like, boom, here we go. Let's roll with this. I would think, and we're getting way outside my scope of knowledge. However, I would sue someone one time for not finishing your deck. So you have legal experience. Well, yes, that's true. But that was a little more clear cut, given that my lawn was a pile of lumber. The yeah, no, my my understanding is that he could reuse the layout, but probably couldn't use the name Yukon Yeti. Deeper probably controls the trademark. If they did it for Yukon Yeti, not that he'd need the name. But my understanding was that you from design like you can't that you can't really patent layouts. So that's why you saw people cloning them all the time and stuff was. So like that's why someone would do like an eight ball clone or something like that. Right. But like you could you could protect the mechs. You could protect the art. You could protect the name. But the actual like geometry that you can't protect that. Or even the most minor tweak would would absolve you at that point. I shared a lot of these Whitewoods from the auction, the pictures that were in the lots. And I guess it's Mel Davis auctions. They keep putting things up in bits and pieces. Yeah, it's weird. I thought they'd dump it all at once, but it just keeps trickling out. No, no. There's been like I've done like four posts now of Whitewoods from this because there's just like another one. And then I'm like, oh, wow. But apparently, John Norris, who was one of the designers at Deep Root, chimed in on one of my posts recently. And he was saying basically that the Whitewoods were just tossed into any cabinets. For example, there's a game, a picture in the cabinet says Merlin's Arcade, I guess, or Merlin's Magic. Yeah, I think it was Merlin Arcade was the name of the game on the slide deck. Yeah, but the play field that's in that cabinet is not Merlin's Arcade. Oh, because John was doing the Merlin game. Yeah, he said that was not the play field for that game, but it was probably one of the other ones in the pictures. I think basically everything was on the floor and people just picked it up and threw it in empty cabs. That's what it seems like. So what are you planning to bid on, Jason? That's what the listeners really want to know. Yeah, nothing. I can't afford anything now. Not even a water bottle? No, someone's going to pay huge money for a Raza, I bet. The quote-unquote complete-looking game stuff I think will go for pretty big money. You want to guess for the Razas? I would guess between, oh gosh, $25,000 and $35,000. Yeah, I was guessing $30,000 to $40,000 would be my guess. You may be more right than I am because I don't know how well advertised the auction really is. Like we still remember the cap and whatever auction. That's true. I mean that was all like the big money because it got all the publicity. That was just everyone who wanted a pinball machine and had a ton of money. I think this is getting a lot of play amongst pinheads. That is true. I don't think like the whitewoods and stuff, as many as there are and as many that won't necessarily have inserts in art. I think if you want like just a plain old whitewood, you probably get one of those pretty cheap if you're not having to buy them by a lot. Now, someone might pick those up and try and like sell them at shows and stuff for like $200 to $400. And they paid $100 a whitewood. $100? No way. Those things are going to go for way more than that. Are they being – do you have to buy the whole thing or is it a bid per whitewood? Like if you have to buy the whole set, I'm trying to figure out. It seems like they're in lots. So do you just buy the entire room? So my guess is however many are in a lot, I'm trying to divide out how much the lot would cost by like what's the amount you ended up paying per Whitewood. It's just there seem to be so many cut that I'm not sure they're really worth that much. I have a good tangent Whitewood story. Well, go ahead and tell it because I'm out of things to say about the auction. I went to a place up here I've bought games from a bunch of times before, Rockland Pinball in Rockland, New York. And they were having like a barbecue. And I know the guy who owns it there, Rob. And he has these shipping containers that he uses as storage in the back. His shop is always open to people and people go in there and look at the games that he has for sale and he's working on and things like that. But people don't usually go into the shipping containers. So a friend of mine and I were there, and we're like, you know, can you open up the shipping containers? So he sends one of his employees back with us, and there's two big shipping containers, like literally five feet away from a railroad track in the back. So they open up the doors, and we're looking around inside there, and I'm like, what is this? It was a Revenge from Mars Whitewood autographed by George Gomez.
    62:16
    Wow. That I found right there. So I took a picture of it and sent it to George, and George was trying to buy it from the guy. I don't know how that ended up. I was like, no, this belongs to the train now. But I was just like, you don't expect to just open up some metal box in the woods and then find a whitewood of an iconic game from a famous designer that was autographed, too. It was pretty funny. Yeah, it's like a dream. No, it's an interesting story anyways. Well, speaking of dreams, Jason, one of the things I thought we would do is kind of a little fun segment is a dream theme discussion. I know everyone's like, let's turn it off. That's what all the podcasts do when they have no content is let's talk about dream themes. But we'll do dream things with a twist. I'm tired of talking about dream themes that are going to sell. Like I've mentioned Die Hard before. You know, people talk about Harry Potter. I don't care. Nobody cares. What they care about is what's a sort of theme or a license that you don't think would really be marketable, at least in today's pinball world, but that you would like to see. And I'd like to know, like some elements that you're thinking about with with the game. And if you want, I can go first. If you want time to think about it or you've got an idea, as if I already told you what the segment would be, you can go whatever you want to do, Jason. I have a go-to answer, so I could go first if you're ready for that. I don't know if you're ready for this awesomeness, though. My mind wants to be blown. Yeah, prepare to have your mind blown.
    63:48
    My go-to, because I had talked about maybe doing a homebrew pin with some people at one point, but I actually don't want to do any work, so that would be... I'm too busy to actually do anything on it, but if I was going to do a homebrew pin, my theme for the game would be Expedition Unknown. Do you know what that show is? A lot of people don't.
    64:11
    No, I do not. I've heard of it, but I have no idea what it is. Expedition Unknown, there's a guy named Josh Gates who's essentially a modern-day Indiana Jones. So what he does is he goes out and investigates all of the most famous tales in history in terms of cryptids. What encrypted is, is like Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot, Yeti, all the mysteries. So he would investigate whether Atlantis was really real, whether Bigfoot was really real, whether the Holy Grail is still being kept in a temple in Ethiopia by monks. I think that's actually the Ark of the Covenant. But basically, what the machine would be would be a series of modes, each one based on trying to solve a famous historic mystery. Like, is Bigfoot real? Was the city of Atlantis real? Is the Ark of the Covenant hidden in a temple in Ethiopia? Blah, blah, blah. So a lot of all those modes would be stuff that's basically free intellectual property. Because no one owns the Yeti patent that I'm aware of. Except for the company that makes coolers, but I don't think they're going to try to sue you for that. So it would be famous mysteries that everyone in the world knows. And I don't think that the Expedition Unknown license, it's owned by the Discovery Channel, I assume, would be very expensive. So it would basically be the equivalent of a modern day Indiana Jones pinball machine with a very inexpensive license. Okay. Well, you've explained the concept and the modes to me, and I get that. So what would you be thinking like in terms of toys? People want a toy. No, no. See, now you've gotten ahead of me.
    65:59
    There's so many possibilities, though. I have the idea that it will be a street level. Well, yeah, no. I'm definitely making it a wide body so you hate it. That would be my ultimate goal. I already don't want to play it. But go on.
    66:12
    I mean, there's so many different things. You could put a Loch Ness Monster in there. You could put a Yeti in there. You could put a Chupacabra. like whatever famous monster you've ever heard of. I want to put a ball lock in there. I want it to be a Yeti cooler. Sure. Well, I see that now you're getting into lawsuit territory. No, we'll get permission.
    66:32
    We'll co-brand it with a Yeti cooler. It's just product placement. You know, I saw the other day, and this is such a tangent. I'm going off on. Someone said that Mickey Mouse is going to be a public domain starting in 2023. They keep getting that extended. Oh yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, I wonder if someone could actually make the Steamboat Willie machine that's really cool, but obviously would be sued into oblivion by Disney. Yeah, again, it's been such a long – I think someone explained to me they do something from time to time because in theory some of that stuff should have already been in the public domain. That doesn't seem right that Mickey Mouse would become public domain. Like, come on, that's the whole basis of their company. Yeah, and I guess I don't know what it is. They continue to use it, and then as they iterate on Mickey, they get it. You know, I don't know if this is exactly the same parallel, but it reminds me of drugs. I don't know. Prescription drugs. I was like, what? Yeah, well, yes. It reminds me of when I was doing drugs. It reminds me of, oh, gosh, what was it? There was something. I don't remember. It might have been Prozac. Anyway. The generics. Yeah, well, there was a, you know, they come out. They have a period where a generic is not allowed, and the company that originally created the drug is allowed to try and make all their money back, R&D and all that. They get their reward for coming up with this new drug. Well, one of the things that they will do is they can try or at least used to would be able to go and say, okay, well, now we've got approval for a new use for the drug, and that allows them to renew.
    68:05
    They can maybe slap a new name on it, but it's the same formulation. And my thought was that it might have been one – I don't remember if it was Prozac or not. I think it was an SSRI, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor that was sold for antidepressive properties. But then later when the patent was about to expire, they restructured to say it now treats anxiety. Now treats depression in dogs or something. Right. Well, they still use it for depression. But hey, now we've got it approved so it can treat anxiety. It's a different condition. we need a new like patent renewal basically because now a new use so it's a new drug even though the formulation was identical or the public domain conversation makes me think of american pinball because remember all those rumors like their next game was going to be this because it was sherlock where's sherlock that's exactly it sherlock holmes was one of them and what were the other public domain ips that they were well it's not like a valkyrie one yeah valkyrie there was like a cannonball run or something yes it was like a card it was like a card or a poker run that was it it was like a card game based on a car race yeah something like that i had to look it up because i'd never heard of such a thing but it it was real yeah so that the sherlock holmes one i think was voted to be or widely considered to be the most likely one i wonder if that's the one that would have made the most money yeah i wonder if that still happen uh you know i i thought so because my understanding was with what David had said in past interviews that some of the stuff coming out was still going to be unlicensed so you know that's a known theme but it's not a license in that you don't have to pay for a license so right i was versus original ip i always thought houdini was a pretty good use of public domain licenses like that's a good license to me it was people don't love the game because they cranked it out in like a month because j-pop left them in the lurch yeah yeah but no conceptually yeah so that's a that would be a non-original but unlicensed because houdini himself was in the public domain so it's not a license because no one's paid but and they have full creative freedom but it is not an original ip because everyone knows who houdini but that's the buy-in i mean i could you know we often talk about the value of licenses i mean look at what weird al did for multimorphic uh For sure. More from that than all their hard work over the years. Their timing with that was perfect, too, because they have the Harry Potter dude, Daniel Radcliffe, biopic of Weird Al coming out. Weird Al's on tour right now. He has a following. He tweeted or posted about the game. I mean, they struck when the iron was absolutely at its hottest. There are a lot of really smart decisions about when they launch the license tied to what the license is. But honestly, in my view, their biggest success is the sheer good fortune that they have landed in a window where no one else is putting out anything. The new game Dead Zone. And there's no way they could have known that going in, right? We all thought until like less. It's been less than a month since we've learned that Toy Story is not at TPF. Maybe they did, though, because if you think about it, many spies. Well, no, think about it. Maybe. Maybe, I mean, because they took orders for that game, and I was kind of surprised to see the first ones weren't, like, the earliest promised delivery date was October. So maybe they were just like, okay, we can show this now. Boom, let's get these orders in this window. Because, I mean, why else would you take orders six months before, you know, you could even deliver anything?
    71:35
    I don't know. I mean, part of the thing could be license or time constraints. You know, they have a certain period of time, usually from what I've heard with license deals to once the ink is signed that it's not, oh, yeah, you can produce this 20 years from now. And then you have a three year sell window. It's sort of a the clock is starting. And right. Maybe they're starting to be like, you know, we need to start taking this and figuring out how many we need to build and stuff, because we've got a window for how long we're allowed to move. I don't know because I'm not privy to any of the details. Good for them, man. No, that thing's sold. Good for them. I'm happy to see that. Yeah, no, it's it's and I it's sort of a I think it's a very it's essentially impossible not to see this as a positive, in my view, for their company. The only thing I think is so interesting, though, again, it plays into what Zach and I have said for it feels like forever on the show. But license is everything. All that engineering, all that hard work, all those prior games blown away just by the name Weird Al. That's how powerful license is. Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on how many you want to sell of something. I mean, obviously, ideally, you want to sell a boatload of anything. But I mean, I think, you know, like with Heist, for example, that's a cool game. And he didn't have to pay for a license. So you don't have to sell as many to break even on something where you're not paying for a license. Yeah, it does depend on your goals. So if your goals are growth, though, then you want as many sales as you can handle. I'm not saying as many sales as possible, as many as you can handle. No, definitely not as many as you can't handle. that that's where you run into some problems do you think multimorphic will do expedition unknown oh see i'm pretty sure now that that's out there that's going to be stolen in minutes it could be i mean they do allow third-party development on their platform so oh yeah if i had to spare a couple of years of my life i'd make it but i don't think that's happening i don't know maybe you just need to reorganize your priorities and maybe de-emphasize lacrosse Sorry, kids, I can no longer see you anymore. I'm going to spend several years developing my own Expedition Unknown pinball machine. And they'll be like, we understand, father.
    73:43
    I'm sure that's how it would go. I'm sure they'll say it just like that. All right, I'm going to do one that might be a little bit, actually, I don't know if it'll be better known than Expedition Unknown or not. If it's more obscure than that, I'm going to be surprised. I'm going to go with the 11th highest grossing film of 1981. Do you know what that is? Oh, definitely. You're going to do the it's going to be like Breakfast Club or something. You're going to do like one of those like teeny bopper 80s movies like Can't Buy Me Love or something like that.
    74:20
    You get a podcast with low ratings. EDP episode Tony and I did where we we did. Oh, gosh, it was the guy who did Breakfast Club, the director. John Cusack was in it John Hughes or whoever like our worst rated episode of that year no one wanted to listen to that no this would be Clash of the Titans that was what I thought this was going to be did you see that when they shared the Weird Al picture the teaser of the first teaser multi-morphic put out there for Weird Al with someone chiseling on a statue for the museum. And my guess was that they were going to do Clash of the Titans. Yeah, that was my guess. I do remember you saying that. I never saw it because, obviously, it depends how creative we're getting because no one's chiseling in it, though I get it because of the Medusa. Yeah, no. So for me, Clash of the Titans, I actually just rewatched this yesterday. See, I was doing my prep work. Uh-huh. For those that don't know, in some ways, I think that people will more know the remake in 2010 with Liam Neeson as Zeus. That was only the 11th best grossing movie in 1981. That movie was a blockbuster, I thought. No. No, no, no. It was, yeah, according to the Wikipedia, it grossed $41 million at the North American box office. That's it? It was the 11th, yes, 11th of the year. I've seen that movie 100 times. I can't believe that that's so poorly received. received yeah well if you would like if you'd like a breakdown so 10th was time bandits that time bandits did better than yes come on 1.3 million dollars um oh my god was the four seasons i don't know that yeah i don't either eighth was for your eyes only so james bond oh bond well that's going to be coming out seventh chariots of fire oh a little slow oh no uh Here's one that you'll throw back here. Six, the cannonball run. Oh, see? It's amazing how all these things are tying together perfectly. That's up at $72 million. Fifth was Stripes.
    76:32
    Okay, John Candy's in that. Fourth was Arthur. If you get caught between the moon and New York City.
    76:41
    Third, Superman 2. Okay. Second was on Golden Pond. That's the one. That's going to be your theme. And the number one movie, I think, unsurprisingly, at the box office for 1981 would be Raiders of the Lost Ark. OK, well, that ties into the theme that I was working on. So no, Clash of the Titans is not a blockbuster. However, it did do better than The Fox and the Hound. I can't believe it sucks so bad at the box office. That movie is way better than all those movies. I mean, it'd be like another one of my favorite from 81, which is Excalibur. That was a $34 million film. I don't even know that one. Oh, that one's really – it's about the story of Arthur and the sword. The entire soundtrack is classical music. That's the movie I think of when I hear Camino Burana. I don't know what you're talking about. No, I don't say. I don't know the Latin, sorry. It's like angels. It's glorious. Yeah, yeah. So, yes, that's perfect. Send in the complaints about yet another Dennis sound effect. Yeah, I can't do fake voices. I want to entertain all of your people. Anyone can do fake voices, whether or not you're doing a good impression. But we can't all be Ron Hallett is the thing. Yeah, that's true. Back to Class of the Titans. So for those that don't know, this is a retelling, a very, very loose retelling, as I found out as a kid once I read what actually happened with Perseus. So it's a Greek myth, Perseus. And so they took a whole bunch of liberties. But the thing about the movie. The mechanical owl wasn't in the real story of Percy. The robot owl? No, there was no Bubo, which I love Bubo.
    78:26
    But, yeah, so the thing at the time was that this was the last movie that Ray Harryhausen did. He did the stop motion effects. So this was a heavy, heavy special effects movie. Obviously, this was well before CGI. So they did a ton of stop motion to do all these, like the effects with Medusa and all that. At the time, it was pretty good, I remember. Oh, yeah. No, it was. And I think the movie, like performance wise, I believe it did well.
    79:01
    I'm not quite sure how much it cost them to make the movie, but it was seen, as I scroll down, worldwide, it grossed $70 million. And it was one of the bigger hits overall. I watched it with my boys during the pandemic at some point. And I think I own it on Vudu or one of those services or Amazon or something like that. Yeah, it's I mean, it's I've I've had it on DVD before Blu-ray. What's that? Yeah, it's an old format that was just just above CDs. You own it on a Betamax? Yeah, a Laserdisc. Come on. Laserdisc. So anyway, for the for the game, like in terms of I would not do a white body, I would do a standard. But you're so many toy toy options. So I would probably steal the mech from Iron Man that Stern used to have the Kraken raise out of the playfield as a bash toy. Release the Kraken. Yes, the Kraken would be released and you get to bash it. I'd also like to have a little toy in one of the – probably towards the back of the Medusa, but kind of taking maybe the thing sort of like Cactus Canyon does where the hat bounces on the guy's head on the remake from CGC. Have you seen the little hat bounce up? A bash toy-esque? Yeah, well, I want one that sort of hinges so that when she's decapitated, her head flips backwards so you can't see it anymore. Oh, that's cool. Where he puts it in the bag. Yeah, yeah. There's – you know, that could be a little toy where you have the – just have the bag represented. There's so much. Obviously, there's a lot that you'll just do on the screen instead. But there are other – you could have a giant scorpion if you want the giant scorpion. You could do a two-headed wolf dog if you want a two-headed wolf dog element to involve. You could have a pegasus somewhere, so just a white stallion with wings. There's a lot of static things you sort of could do. The modes would be the various elements of the quest. I do it more 90s style where you don't have to play the game in order per se. So you'll want to go and visit the witches. You need to go across the River Styx. You need to go and fight Medusa would be like the mini wizard mode. And then defeating the Kraken would be the ultimate wizard mode, would be the concept. And for the callouts, get Dame Maggie Smith. She ain't ever going to do McGonagall because there ain't ever going to be a Harry Potter. Maggie Smith was in this movie. Is she alive? Yes. Because I saw her in a play in high school, like a class trip. And I thought she was relatively old then. And I'm no spring chicken. She's in her upper 80s, but she's still alive. And at least I checked this morning. I didn't see that she wasn't. And she played Thetis, who was the sea goddess. OK, I believe so. Sort of a sea nymph. It was sort of weird because I always thought she'd play maybe a more famous goddess. But but she was the one who whose kid is Calibus in the movie. So she's the one that the statue that talks and all of that. Hear me, vain and foolish mortal woman. You dare compare your daughter's beauty to mine and in my own sacred sanctuary. You will repent your boast and the cruel injury you have inflicted on my son, Calibus. And so, I mean, it's just some really great lines. When I went back after seeing Harry Potter and Salt Clash of the Titans, I was like, holy crap, it's the witch lady. She's a goddess in this.
    82:18
    So that would be what I would do. I'll tell you, our two ideas, am I allowed to say kick ass on this show or do you have to beat that out? Yeah, this show does not censor. Oh, nice. Those two ideas kick ass. Someone's got to bring us on board and we'll crush pinball sales with these awesome new themes. Yep. So we'll just have to wait and see them happen. But I'm excited. It's only a matter of time before our ideas get stolen. Yes. They're too good to not be. It's such a, come on, we need a sword and sandals game. It'll sell tens of units. Do it. Sword and sandals? I think that's what they used to call that genre. Oh, really? Yeah, kind of like the Spartacus and all that. Sword and sandals as a genre.
    83:02
    Charlton. We need Charlton. More Charlton Heston in pinball. Yeah, you know, Clash of Titans had Laurence Olivier as Zeus, but we cannot get him to do call-outs, I'm afraid. No, probably not.
    83:13
    So I guess, you know, normally we would now do pinball market trends. Do you want to do the pinball market trends? Do you know how Zach leads in the segment? You can do it however you want. I've listened to the show many times, but I do not recall his specific. It's like pinball market trends. He does. It's time for pinball market trends. He usually goes over the top, but you can do it any way you want. It's time for pinball market trends.
    83:40
    Oh, God. There we go. That's about how everyone feels about it, I think. No, some people, I have to be honest, people do actually write. Well, they used to more when I pushed them. That's not just Zach with fake Gmail accounts writing in himself. I don't know. So we don't, we don't, because I don't, we kind of ran the exhaustion out of me playing up this art and arguing about how stupid the MMR, everyone knows that Pimmar Market Trends is made up. So I can't really say anything else. I still, it's like EGP and Rumor Corner. No one really cares if it's true. They just want to hear the entertainment. I used to love to go through Facebook and Pinside Marketplace and look like, oh, this is a good deal. That's a good deal. You know, what what game is a cool game that's still not selling for big bucks? But now everything's so horrible. It makes me sad to look at all the prices are so outrageous. That makes me sad to look at pricing and I try not to anymore. So I guess you've already answered it. But do you have a pinball market trend? I do not. Yeah, everything's going up and it's going up a lot. That's my market trend. I don't have one either. Well, that's it. We're done with pinball market trends. Thanks, everybody. That was the best one in a while. man i i i'm pretty i'm pretty pleased with it so okay so we're at the end of the show so jason people want to learn more they want to get your scoops where do they go to oh sure uh well i don't know if you have to say the www part but www.naparcade.org what happens if i don't put in the www i think it probably still works at least on chrome it does okay some buggers stole nap arcade.com i'm still searching for them who would do that i have no idea but i have i have three guesses and you wouldn't like any of them so i'm not going to name them on here i have a very specific skill set i'm going to do the uh taken i'm going to do the taken i will find you i will unleash the kraken i do not i do not have a scottish uh accent that i can do it was a poor investment on someone's part unless they're just trying to screw with me because i'm not paying someone for it well maybe maybe is there anything there do they i don't i don't i don't think it goes to anything so yeah there used to be a my name my first name is jason obviously there used to be a jason nap.com that had a dancing chicken on it that was it i don't know i don't think it was for me because there's a surprising number of jason naps in the world there are there was one who was a minor league baseball player in the phillies organization there's a sportscaster out of Philadelphia as well, who was doing curling announcing on the Olympics this year, who's Jason Knapp. And then there was a dude who was missing in North Carolina who was also, if you Google it, those guys come up. In any event, KnappArcade.org and then also Knapp Arcade on Facebook and Knapp Arcade on Instagram. On Instagram, I usually post a picture of one game that I've seen on location every day and then, you know, share what year it was and everything else from different angles. So it's just kind of like a repository of all cool pinball machines that I've seen in a long time. But the Facebook page and the website, I share any news that I come across and any interesting arcade and pinball related stories.
    87:03
    All right. Well, and if people need to reach out to me, it's always easiest just to email a kick gamers podcast at Gmail dot com because I checked that one. But you can also email the pinball network at Gmail dot com and those will eventually get to me. normally Zach would do his Flip and Out sponsorship thing because that's what he does to make a living and I would say so you can always visit Flip and Out that's Flip the letter in outpinball.com I do not know what his showcase is so I guess probably nothing except maybe a Star Wars pin I mean I don't know what he's got in stock anymore it seems like everything's sold out I'm a previous Flip and Out customer and I will give a excellent testimony about it I got Godzilla Premium from Zach and it was a great process. Do you have a Godzilla premium? Oh, not Godzilla. Duh. I have a Jurassic Park premium. He's taking over my mind. Yeah, no, we were talking about it. That's why I have a Jurassic Park premium. I wish I had a Godzilla premium, but I do not. Why? Jurassic Park was the other game I was really interested in. Yeah, my Jurassic Park premium was missing some screws from the factory and Zach got that taken care of nice and quickly. Did he tell you, go to Home Depot, quit bugging me? No, no, he was very good service. Very good service. and I've had a Deadpool ordered from Flippin' Out for well over a year now so that's... And tell us about that service tell us all the good things he can't magically make games appear, he can only do what he can do I tried to get Zach I was talking to Zach Sharp I'm like can't you just sneak one Deadpool on the line for me but it didn't work well and so in terms of I don't know what's coming up this is how bad I am on prepping I don't know what's coming up this week on the Pinball Network, if there really is anything. It felt like, at least on the podcast front, we fired both barrels last week. It was like there was no TPS, so everyone else just stepped up and did things. I already mentioned earlier in the show, we had just another pinball podcast, and we had Freeplay Pinball. They both had Keith Elwin interviews, so if you haven't heard those, you may want to go and check them out. They ask different questions, so even though it's still the same guest, you'll hear different things out of both. If you're going to interview one person in the hobby twice, you might as well interview the goat twice. I guess. I wonder if Loser Kids is moving their schedule around to have him on at a different time now. You're so abreast of all the podcasts and who's having what and everything like that. I can't keep track. Zach prides himself on listening to every single pinball podcast that exists. I don't commute anymore. That's a little difficult. And that's what's happened primarily with me is even before the pandemic, my when I changed jobs in 2019, I went from driving an hour one way four days a week to doing that same drive about once a week. So I just walk a lot. I do walk as my exercise. So that's if as long as it's not freezing cold, I listen to podcasts while I walk. That's what I usually do. If I'm not with my wife, it's still just not. Yeah, you have to you have to listen. You can't be all like the one year thing. Yeah, you were trying to get me to listen to the podcast and do the Secret Service. The Secret Service thing. I still think that would probably work for a while. That's when I taught you the variable this is knife over from Clear and Present Danger. Yeah, and that's why I really thought you were going to do Clear and Present Danger pinball when you were like, I've got one already. That would be, I mean, it's just so dated. How about Jack Ryan, though? Jack Ryan in general is not a bad theme. I'm a Harrison Ford Jack Ryan guy, though. Okay, well. He's still alive. He could do call outs. Yeah, he's coming. I can't believe they're coming out with another Indiana Jones.
    90:34
    They got to make up for number four because, oh, boy. The Crystal Skull is not your favorite movie? That's shocking. All of a sudden, Temple of Doom looks fine. Wow, Temple of Doom was really good compared to this. The one thing I just remembered as a kid when I saw Temple of Doom was I couldn't put my finger on it because I was so young at the time, but it was just that it was so dark. Yeah. And then when he rips the guy's beating heart out of his chest. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, it was just like, yeah, of course. I saw that as a kid in the theater. I'm sure that was a theater one. He must have been like, holy shit. Mind blown. It's like, you can do that and they stay alive? It's like, I know. They're taking some creative liberties to this.
    91:14
    I found out afterwards, I think, watching a documentary or a director's commentary or something, that it was like Steven Spielberg's like, yes, I was going through a really bad divorce when I made that.
    91:25
    There's like pictures of his ex-wife being decapitated. And he married the actress who played Willie. Oh, really? Yeah. And he's like, the only good thing that came out of that is I met my future wife. That's the only thing. Did he adopt short round, too? I think that might have been possible. I don't know. No, I heard that somewhere. I don't know. But he was in a dark place, and it shows throughout the entire film. Burning people to wake them up. Oh, it was just, ugh. That's why it's so not fun compared to the first and the third. The third one was so good. It is.
    92:02
    Well, thanks for being on, Jason. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks for filling in the tiny little baby shoes that are Zach's. Oh, yes. This is going to be – watch. You're going to want to have this guest host thing more often. This show is going to rock. I mean, I've had you – Tony and I have had you on twice, I believe, on Eclectic Gamers Podcast. It has been quite a while. So it's been a while since we have spoken. It's fun to be on a podcast that you don't have to edit. That's always a kiddie. Yes, I won't know anything about that for this episode, but maybe someday, if Zach does ever come back, it will be once more. But until then, everyone, thanks for listening to The Pinball Show, and we'll catch you later.