Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Great British Pinball Podcast Episode 13

The Great British Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 28m·analyzed·Jul 18, 2024
Buzzsprout-15433904
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Pinball Republic renovation update and market chatter on Alien, John Wick, and venue reopening plans.

Summary

Neil McCray and Scott Rundle discuss the reopening of Pinball Republic, a UK pinball venue in West Croydon's Westfields shopping mall, covering renovation progress, operational challenges (cash management, electrical upgrades, staffing), and market updates. Scott details his third Alien acquisition and other recent purchases (John Wick Premium, Jaws Premium), reflecting on code updates and game experiences.

Key Claims

  • Pinball Republic has been closed since end of February (5 months) and is reopening at new Westfields location in West Croydon by August Bank Holiday weekend

    high confidence · Neil McCray discussing venue closure and reopening timeline

  • The new venue will have approximately 35 games in one row and capacity for up to 60 games with current electrical infrastructure

    high confidence · Neil McCray discussing space planning and power limitations

  • Pinball Republic is transitioning to cashless operations due to cost management and banking fees for cash deposits

    high confidence · Neil McCray explaining operational shift

  • Scott purchased his third Alien machine (LV edition, unit ~700 in production run) after adding Sigourney Weaver licensing was secured

    high confidence · Scott Rundle detailing Alien purchase history and Sigourney Weaver licensing updates

  • Alien code is now at version 4 with new multiball and bug fixes addressed since initial release

    medium confidence · Scott Rundle discussing code updates for Alien

  • The Alien topper is manufactured in Israel and experienced color variance issues due to production challenges

    high confidence · Scott Rundle discussing topper manufacturing and color variance disclosure

  • Pinball Brothers gave Scott early access and replacement units as compensation for issues found during prototype testing

    high confidence · Scott Rundle detailing his role in providing feedback that influenced game revisions

  • District 82 (US venue) organizes games by designer/era mix (modern/classic) in a layout Pinball Republic is modeling

    medium confidence · Neil McCray discussing venue layout strategy inspired by District 82

Notable Quotes

  • “I managed to fall off a ladder... Turns out I was five steps up... I kind of landed on my ass.”

    Neil McCray @ early in episode — Personal anecdote about a minor injury at the venue during renovations; establishes informal tone

  • “We've been shut since February... March, April, May, June. It's five months. It's a lot.”

    Neil McCray @ mid-episode — Emphasizes the extended closure period and impact on the community

  • “I'll be honest here, almost, I'm going to say 90% of our money was done electronically anyway.”

    Neil McCray @ cashless operations discussion — Justifies the shift to cashless operations as a natural evolution rather than a major change

  • “Alien isn't about the alien, right? I mean, don't get me wrong, it's important, but the movie's about the whole human aspect of it. It's all about a female protagonist, isn't it?”

    Scott Rundle @ Alien discussion — Explains why Sigourney Weaver licensing was important thematically to the game

  • “It's like not having Sarah Connor in Terminator... It'd be like having Godzilla without Godzilla, you know?”

    Scott Rundle @ Alien licensing discussion — Uses pop culture analogies to emphasize the importance of iconic character licensing

  • “The shop was a clothes shop before a company called Joy, who I think went bankrupt actually during COVID.”

    Neil McCray @ venue history discussion — Provides context on the previous tenant's closure due to COVID

  • “We're going to mix it up a little bit... modern classic, modern classic... partly so that we can do some cool stuff with tournaments.”

    Neil McCray @ game layout planning — Outlines the philosophy for game arrangement balancing modern and classic titles

  • “I was in this new pinball place which I forgot the name of... in Santa Clara which is Silicon Valley... they had about 25 games.”

Entities

Neil McCraypersonScott RundlepersonMattpersonTony GreenwoodpersonKatopersonTim SextonpersonMarkpersonPinball RepublicvenueWestfields

Signals

  • ?

    venue_signal: Pinball Republic reopening in Westfields shopping mall, West Croydon; 5-month closure ended; new location larger with ~35-game capacity in primary row; planned grand opening August Bank Holiday weekend

    high · Neil McCray: 'the grand opening is Bank Holiday, August Bank Holiday weekend, but will probably be open before that'; '35 games on it'; 'we've been shut since February... March, April, May, June. It's five months.'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Pinball Republic transitioning to cashless payment model to reduce cash handling costs and improve accounting; cash deposits incur bank fees; cash ATM nearby mitigates accessibility concerns

    high · Neil McCray: 'we're going cashless... managing cash for us has been a nightmare... we get charged to deposit cash'; 'there's a cash machine literally right outside'

  • ?

    operational_signal: New venue has electrical limitations; current consumer unit supports ~60 games; upgrading beyond that requires new circuit runs and cable installation; electrician needed for West Croydon area

    high · Neil McCray: 'we think we're okay to open right now Probably just If we stick to 60 games But if we want to go beyond that Which we're keen to do... you've got to upgrade all the circuit breakers'

  • ?

    product_concern: Alien topper (made in Israel) experienced documented color variance issues during production; manufacturer disclosed potential variance during production; community debate about whether variance is acceptable

    high · Scott Rundle: 'the top is made in Israel... they did specify that during production colour variances may occur... Am I a little disappointed? Maybe'; 'it's got a different color... as long as it delivered on what they said it would which is it's mechanical'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.264

0:00
welcome to the great british pinball podcast and here are your hosts scott rundell and neil mccray ladies and gentlemen it's the time has come it is as always the great british pinball podcast We know you've been missing us because you've written to us. And we know that you've been desperately gasping for a new nine-hour episode. And here we go.
0:37
I am Neil McRae. I'm joined, as always, by Scott Rundle. Welcome, Scott. How's the arm? Yeah, it's all good. Basically, I had my last bit of physio at least for five weeks. They've said that all I've got to do now is just rebuild muscle. So, yeah, looking good. So just... Yeah, got to do like the Arnold Schwarzenegger muscle training. But no, it's really boring stuff. It's all resistance training. So it's all to do with basically pulling elastic bands is the equivalent of. I managed to fall off a ladder.
1:08
Really? At the New Pinball Republic. Nice one, Neil. I was measuring something. I thought I was four steps up. Turns out I was five steps up. Oh, dear. And I kind of landed on my ass. I actually pulled a muscle in my leg, which was quite painful. You didn't damage your coccyx because that would have really hurt. I didn't kill myself, frankly.
1:31
Especially with all that broken glass on the floor. Yeah, actually, Matt, fair play. He was laughing but trying hard not to laugh. It was kind of funny.
1:41
When my foot went down, I kind of pulled the muscle in the back of my calf. It's all back and ready, but you strained it a little bit. So I'm hobbling around like Charlie Chaplin right now. But not a pinjury. Well, kind of a pinjury. Well, it is. Yeah, it's a pinjury, I think. Because it happened in the new Pinball Republic. Actually, whilst we're talking about it, why don't we start there? Sure.

Scott Rundle @ John Wick purchase discussion — References a new US venue in Silicon Valley where he tested John Wick variants

company
Pinball Brotherscompany
Sterncompany
Spooky Pinballcompany
Aliengame
John Wickgame
Jawsgame
Pulp Fictiongame
Black Knightgame
District 82venue
Great British Pinball Podcastorganization
Pinfestevent
Swavesyevent
Santa Claravenue
?

code_update: Alien code at version 4 with new multiball and bug fixes; Black Knight also receiving code updates (version 4); manufacturers continuing post-launch development

medium · Scott Rundle: 'they're on version 4 of the code now they've added a new multiball there's loads of bug fixes in the game there were some issues around that'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Alien machine secured Sigourney Weaver likeness in later revision (RV edition); licensing obtained from Fox/Disney after initial delays; two translight versions produced (one with/without Weaver likeness) due to approval timing

    high · Scott Rundle: 'they got the sign-off on everything... they still at one point didn't even have sign off to have her likeness on the trans light so there were actually two trans lights made for that game one with her face and the other one with her face occluded'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Scott acquired his third Alien machine (LV edition, unit ~700) from secondary market at appealing price; machine had minimal plays (12); timing and pricing favorable compared to earlier purchases

    high · Scott Rundle: 'One was offered to me... at a price I couldn't say no it had no plays on it, like 12 plays on it, which is basically new... it's number 700 or something in the run'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Pinball Brothers used SV (Standard Version) and LV (Limited Version) edition structure; LV differentiated by powder coat, lit art blades, and perceived exclusivity; similar to Spooky's approach with Bloodsucker

    high · Scott Rundle: 'they basically had an SV, which is called Standard Version... and there was an LV, which is what is seen as the limited version... The only real difference between the two is a powder coat'

  • ?

    product_launch: Scott purchased John Wick Premium and Jaws Premium machines; John Wick in shipment; Jaws delivery uncertain with planned transportation to Pinfest event

    high · Scott Rundle: 'I managed to pay for my John Wick... it's on a ship being played by... I'm surprised by that. So you bought an Ellie?... I'm going to take it to Pinfest but it's not I haven't heard where that is so I don't know if it's going to arrive'

  • ?

    venue_signal: New pinball arcade opened in Santa Clara/Silicon Valley area with ~25 games; features both Pro and Premium versions of recent releases; accessible to Scott during work travel

    medium · Scott Rundle: 'this new pinball place which I forget the name of... in Santa Clara which is Silicon Valley... they had about 25 games and they had both the pro and premium right next to each other'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Pinball Republic planning to mix modern and classic games by designer/era rather than by owner grouping; inspired by District 82 layout; balances tournament design and load distribution

    high · Neil McCray: 'we're going to have a kind of modern classic, modern classic... partly so that we can do some cool stuff with tournaments partly so that we can spread the load of the games out'; 'It's actually how District 82, who are a big venue in the US. It's kind of how they're set out.'

    • 2:05
    So if you're on our Facebook group, Pinball Republic Facebook group, you'll have seen I posted a video of the – I shall upload it to our group as well. I posted a video of the new Pinball Republic location. on the last show we signed the lease and then there was a whole bunch of pain in the ass shit that we had to deal with but anyway it's done the lease is signed, we actually paid the rent and we've got we have to pay the rent in advance quarterly in advance which is painful from a cash flow I bet you were hoping it was in arrears but yeah evidently not look these guys, I mean I have to say my hat's off to RUW which is the Westfields company.
    2:52
    They've given us a great deal. They've been really helpful as much as they can be. They're here to make money, right? And we're taking quite a good position in their mall, and they've been really helpful. It is a bit different because you're in a shopping mall, so you've got to follow the rules of the mall and opening times and stuff like that. But they've been very helpful. So we got the shop fitters in, as you would have seen in the video. They were ripping. So the shop was a clothes shop before a company called Joy, who I think went bankrupt actually during COVID, I think.
    3:29
    So it's been vacant ever since? Yeah. Well, it's been empty at least six months because that's when we started. That's when we kind of found out about the place. I mean, it's taken an insane amount of time to get to this position, which is really frustrating. They're lawyers, and actually even our lawyer, kind of arguing the toss over like insignificant shit.
    3:55
    And, you know, where I work, I'm writing deals for a billion quid over 10 years, and this is like 300 grand over five. You know, it's just not even less than that. I often find it's the smaller deals that end up being more complex anyway. A hundred percent. I mean, look, we were just trying to make sure none of us got shot if something stupid happens. It's all about liabilities at the end of the day.
    4:20
    Anyway, the guy, actually, thanks to Tony Greenwood, he found us a shop fair that's done us, again, done us a good favor in terms of pricing. Although, just those people in retail, no wonder retail's closing down, because to do a shop fit in and follow all the methods and procedures and all the regulation, and you've got to have a supervisor. There's a guy watching the other guys doing the work. It's like, crikey. And you have to pay for that. So that bit's paid. I said in the video we're doing a touch. We're ripping everything out that we don't need, like, clothes hanging poles and stuff like that.
    4:57
    We're putting in – we're going to paint the place. So Matt's currently paint master. Paint master Matt. Sounds like a rapper. he is putting together a crew to paint the place which is really just to take the, the walls are dirty and stuff they've been there, they've faded so we just refresh the paint the lights are going to be pretty much as they are the floor is pretty much as it is, the floor is actually in reasonable shape, we're going to put a desk at the front, we'll do some signage and just so you know that's probably 15 grand and our kind members who we started billing again they've been super supportive we've had a lot of ups and downs over the last year floods and previously Covid a lot of challenges and our members have really stuck with us so it's good that they're doing that it's going to look phenomenal when it's done because you're going to have a lot of space absolutely, Matt and I were measuring it, we're going to have like one row with probably 35 games on it. That's going to look amazing. I know.
    6:12
    Matt was saying we get the frame of the picture of this big row of games. Yeah, yeah. We're both in there really with a key in our hand now.
    6:24
    That was kind of exciting, especially after the amount of effort I've put in with these lawyers. Jesus.
    6:31
    We've done the deal. These guys are in there. We've got cutting up new doors, so we've got this proper kind of machine room fixing area where we can – games that are – you know, we still want to probably fix most games in position, but if something's, like, waiting for a part or it's got a really bad issue, we can pull it out, stick it in the hospital and work on it. A good bit of storage means that we're hopefully going to – we've got four storage units right now costing us – I've seen how crammed they are Grand It's costing us about £1500 a month On storage So what's the plan Do you think you're going to get The room fitted out When do you think you're going to start occupying it So the shop fitters are now Then there's a bit of work The Mall guys have to do With fire systems and emergency lights That's kind of centrally controlled I think they'll all be done by the end of this month It's pretty quick Yeah, I mean they'll say in two weeks I mean there was a bunch of, I mean it looked, actually the video would have looked better so for those on audio, so there's a video of me wondering about just talking about the place and there's a lot of stuff on the ground because they A lot of stuff in the storage areas as well Yeah, basically they're waiting for skips two skips supposed to arrive and they both, both small and us, got let down, so I'm guessing that they're there by now and all that gear that you see on the floor, that would all be in the skip, but we're just waiting for them to arrive so it'd look even better if they'd arrive, so anyway, Matt and I were measuring just the size of the place the amount of paint that we need it's gallant so Matt's working on that, hopefully we might have got a deal and so on but we're going to need people to bring rollers and overalls and paint brushes and stuff so um you know lean in um you'd almost be better off just getting um what should they call it like an air pressure unit and putting your own just paint on it in it and then just spraying it on do you know what i mean yeah so because of an area that wide it definitely looks like you're probably right but look we've got lots of people and look it It doesn't have to look perfect because most of it will be behind a game, right? We're just trying to freshen it up. Especially on one side, there's a lot of purple paint. It's like the 400 shades of purple because it's had stuff in front of it and the lights there are these kind of spotlights. They illuminate the clothes, if you like.
    9:19
    We're going to have to figure out what we do with lighting, but it's not going to be in phase one. It'll be in phase two because we just don't have the money. We're going to add more electrics That's one of the things I'm trying to figure out If anyone's listening, those that are electrician Near Croydon, give me a ping Neil at domino.org I'd really appreciate it Because that's one of the other big tasks I think we're okay to open right now Probably just If we stick to 60 games But if we want to go beyond that Which we're keen to do Which we actually have to do Because we want to shut all these storage units So you've got to upgrade all the circuit breakers And have your own No, the actual consumer unit, it's got an industrial consumer unit. That's fine. All we need to do is just run cable and rings. Okay. And actually, that's relatively straightforward because of the way that they've designed the building. Their place also got air conditioning, which is glorious news, although I haven't actually figured out how you turn it on. Is that included in your business rates? Would you have to pay on top of that? No, that's included. Wow, that's going to be nice then. I mean, we're very fortunate that these guys have done us a deal. I won't share the deal because... Sure. Contractual elements. Yeah, I'm not even sure I'm allowed to share the deal. Yeah, probably not.
    10:34
    There's probably some non-disclosure agreement in there. Yeah, there's something flashing in my room that's acting a bit bizarre. What is that? Hold on. Anyway, I'm going to... What the hell is that? Anyway, something weird flashing that I'm not used to seeing flashing. It must be Godzilla Topper. Anyway, so look, yeah, we're close.
    10:57
    I mean, I wish I could pin down dates because, you know, we want to get in there. So anyway, Matt, I think the next big thing to do, painting, there's some cleaning we need to do. We want to paint the back areas as well because they're a bit dirty looking, you'll see in the video.
    11:13
    And, you know, actually, hopefully, they've reduced the price of parking so it's going to be cheaper for people to come if they drive. I got the tram.
    11:24
    I just wanted to get on it to see how it was going back to East Croydon, which is in West Croydon, the train stations. But they're literally on our doorstep. We've got dozens of places to eat, coffee.
    11:37
    It's going to be good, I think, because I think you could be able to hold – maybe you'd even be able to do UK Open there now. Or would you still keep it? I think the UK Open might be a stretch. 150 people in there looks challenging to me. I think we could fit it in, but I don't think it would be comfortable.
    11:57
    But look, we're definitely going to run some big events. You're definitely going to be capable of some big events in there. Yeah, so we'll be able to do... One of the downsides of the previous place that we're trying to fix in this one, there wasn't a lot of places to sit. So if you were waiting or you didn't want to play, you're either back in our rec room or there was one or two places you could sit but there wasn't a lot of seats so we're trying to fix that we're not going to have hundreds of seats but between games you know i like to sit down because if you're in a tournament you're on your feet potentially 10 hours so you want to sit down between games we're going to have more seating or the aim is to have more seating um and we're trying to we're trying to build that if you might if you imagine it's like a it's like one of those number puzzles where we're trying to get everything in the right order maximize the space um and have the power in the right place so we can plug games in blah blah right so um we've got a nice big area for a projector that will be able to project kind of tournament results and stuff on and and other stuff we've got some signage going up that'll with our logo on it on the front um yeah we're really i mean we're excited about it um and i i I mean, we've been shut since February. End of February, we closed. Yeah. March, April, May, June. It's five months.
    13:19
    It's a lot. We're definitely, I think, we, the folks who ran it, we miss getting together. Like, Thursday night. I can imagine. It's been a while now, hasn't it? Yeah, it's been great. I mean, we've had a few events of various people's houses down here, but, I mean, it really reminds us. We were talking about this at Swavesy, which was a great event, actually. well done to Mark for organising it but we're talking about how much we've missed you know the community aspect we haven't had to deal with smelly pinball players, please wash but we have missed it, even the moaning neighbours that we used to have next door that were always a pain in the ass and the road that you used to drive down that would burst your tyres first one of my tyres yeah it did one of mine as well mate so anyway we're so close we can taste it now great the next few months for us is make or break so we either get so Fortuner members have stuck with us we need a few more members we need people to turn up so use our own once people see how big the venue is and how easy it is to access it now I definitely feel like you're going to get a more positive reception on it Yeah, and we're going to have some cool games that you can't play anywhere else. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's going to look phenomenal, as you say, seeing that huge lineup. I imagine you're going to put all the modern Sterns together as well, so you effectively have a Stern alley. No, we're not, actually. So we're going to mix it up a little bit. So in the old club, we kind of had the games by owners kind of tightly together. Okay. But what we're going to do is we're going to have a kind of modern classic, modern classic um partly so that we can do some cool stuff with tournaments partly so that we can spread the load of the games out um sure sure and you know but look i think as i said to matt we were trying to plan this i was like matt let's just get the games in here stick them up down and then you know it's like the old place we we had a few different layouts before we found the one that we liked the most i said it's going to be the same thing the challenge is in the middle of this area there isn't as much power as there was in the old place um and so there's enough you know what might be a good idea you could because it probably worked from at least some of the designers organize it by designer because that still would you'd have a george gomez game for instance do you know i mean like back i'm trying to buy steve richie for instance when you have these bally williams era you could that satisfies the classic while having a modern Steve Ritchie game next to it. So you could try that idea. It wouldn't be too bad because you're still matching game designer by how can I put it, adjacent to whichever, while still maintaining that old and new that you mentioned there. For sure, something like that we'll definitely look at. It's just the case that Keith Ellens only got new games. Yeah, that's true.
    16:27
    We literally want to have this. It's actually how District 82, who are a big venue in the US. It's kind of how they're set out. And, you know, it works well for them. So we're trying to do the same.
    16:41
    They've got a much bigger space than us. Well, we'll see how it goes. But, you know, I'm excited about it. The thing is, is it looks big. But I remember when we were leaving the old place and it was empty. We had one game left there that Matt was collecting. It looked big, I bet. It looked big.
    16:59
    But, you know, we were out of space there we couldn't put any more games and we'd rammed it in fact you know actually a couple of us thought we had too many games at one point because it was hard to move around um but you know you'll ever put like anything like a merch store in there oh yeah so i mean this is some of the things that we're able we're going to be able to do in this new venue we got much more proper storage for things like teach like the other place we we had a we had merch we started off with it we just didn't have anywhere to put it that kept it good or sensible so we are definitely going to get merch because we know that we're missing out on that we've done a few runs one offs and stuff but we'll have a proper place to store it actually one other thing we're going cashless which there'll be about 20 people having a heart attack here and there and the reason for that it's just managing cash for us has been a nightmare frankly it gets harder and harder anyway to handle cash and it's like we have to everything that we pay is electronic and we've got to go to the bank actually we get charged to deposit cash so people say oh you'll save money no we don't we will have some cash for the vending machine we're trying to figure out if we can make the vending machine go cashless as well but it's a bit old so it's probably not likely. Right. But, you know, that is, we just don't, just dealing with cash has been painful for us, so we're going to avoid that. And the great, so the last place we couldn't do it because the nearest cash machine was a nine-mile walk. This place, there's a cash machine literally right outside. So, you know, if anyone, you know, if anyone kind of has an issue with that, you know, they can figure it out basically. But, you know, we just think it's probably best moving forward. And also, it just makes it easier for us to manage the books in terms of what cash is coming in, what sort of expenditure.
    19:11
    And also, you know, if we want to buy something, I don't know, say we want to buy toilet rolls or something, that, you know, we kind of know who's doing it and where the cash is. The things are run of, isn't it? It's easy as a trace. Absolutely. It's not saying anything horrible or anything bad is happening. It's just in a world where we've doubled our costs, we need to be cost-focused, right? We just need to be cost-efficient, right? Absolutely. Exactly. Let's go. So, look, I'm pretty much, I'll be honest here, almost, I'm going to say 90% of our money was done electronically anyway. so this isn't a big big change in that respect no i mean i can't it's rare that i pay stuff with cash anymore i've never got cash uh you know actually you know i feel bad right i order an indian takeaway the guy delivers and i've never got cash to give him a tip i just it's like sorry mate um i see i do i do the tips through the the app yeah our takeaway doesn't have that option turned on.
    20:21
    So, and the thing is, it's a really great Indian takeaway and I don't want to change it, but I feel bad for the guy, because I've never got cash on me. Mandy's never got cash on me. It's hard enough, anyway. So look, Pinball Republic, the grand opening is Bank Holiday, August Bank Holiday weekend, but will probably be open before that, so keep an eye on the website, pinballrepublic.com and we'll update more.
    20:48
    So let's jump into our kind of more usual section. Again, I want to thank everyone, especially our members, who have effectively been paying for nothing.
    21:00
    Yes, it's pretty good. I hope a year from now everyone's looking back and saying it's worth it. We actually think if we get the volume we think, we'll be able to perhaps reduce the price a little bit and make it more attractive for folks. We're going to run some big events. We're going to try and do more corporate events as well where we rent the place out like on a Tuesday night or something. That's not a bad idea, yeah. Yeah, it's easy to say. It's tough to do, though. I imagine. We did a few things like that in the old place. There was one time this guy, he turns out he's like a famous, some sort of famous socialite in the US. I'd never heard of the bloke.
    21:42
    TikTok, no doubt. No, he was, yeah, he was someone, I don't know. Anyway, he was a, he basically punches up and says, oh, you know, I want to come here. I was like, yeah, I just hit him with 500 quid. And he was like, no problem. And I was like shit I wish I said 1 But yeah And then we had weird things Like we had a guy doing a retirement party We charged them like I don know I think it was 150 quid Cause he was you know it was money for us for nothing. If you know what I mean. And if we charged more, he wouldn't have done it. So, you know, it's, it's kind of, it's nice for you to do stuff at that price anyway. It's really nice. Yeah. And, and, um, I said, I felt bad for the guy cause you didn't get a load of people turning up and he'd, he'd like his, his family was there. We had all this food. It was, anyway. But, yeah, and this other thing, we got food venues. And, you know, we will have a smaller kind of rec area for people to sit down and have a sandwich or a bite or a drink or whatever.
    22:39
    But before we had this kind of separate room and kitchen, you know, so one of our challenges is we don't have a kitchen that's in the public area. so we're going to have to figure out how we manage those folks who want tea and coffee, we haven't figured that out yet but we will do because that's still a actually there's three kind of changing room areas that we weren't able to take down because they're wired up to the fire system and we're thinking of putting like a kettle or something in one of them so people can kind of make tea and coffee but we'll see how we get on with it I'm excited about it and it's great to see the place getting fed up, anyway let's move on let's talk about our ins and outs as the saying goes Scott I understand you bought your third Alien yeah I know you're such a massive fan of both the company and the theme for me it's like I like the movies Alien I love oh yeah I suppose the game I should say the game I had the prototype obviously from the UK so I had the SV but it was a prototype confirmed by Pinball Brothers it was one of the first five that were made that's why it was so bloody buggy so it's rare I was the guinea pig I ended up doing a lot of the changes you see in revisions were actually coming from me feeding back to them saying we're getting EMI interference on the cables they need to be thicker gauge because that's what's causing a lot of the game hang up so a lot of the revision changes came from the issues I had with my game. And obviously, then I got an LV, which is what is seen as the limited version of the game. So they basically had an SV, which is called Standard Version. You could argue it's called a Pro, but it wasn't stripped down like Stern do. There was nothing missing from it. And it's a bit more like Spooky did with their Bloodsucker Edition and Standard Edition. The only real difference between the two is a powder coat, if I'm honest with you. And it's the same thing with Alien. so yes of course you get the lit art blades and stuff like that but whatever anyway so i had that was number 23 i think on the production line um because again it was as a sorry from pinball brothers they gave me early access to the to the game um and got me a limited version to replace the prototype that had its own problems uh because again that had like issues where the The game basically had dialing issues. It had a bad finish on the ramps. And by that point, my wife was just like, I've had enough. Just get rid of it. So I got rid of it. Yep. Well, it's a big dollar, right? Yeah, it was a big dollar for the game even then at that point. So I feel like, you know, time has passed. One was offered to me. And we'll move on to pricing in the market in a later bit of this episode. but it was at a price I couldn't say no it had no plays on it, like 12 plays on it, which is basically new and yeah, it's number 700 or something in the run that they did so it's had much more time to mature, I receive it tomorrow so I'll know for sure whether or not it's got more of the problems I had with my first one we might have to do a supplemental recording yeah, but I mean like there was a couple of reasons to revisit it for me One was the fact that they added in Sigourney Weaver. So one of the main complaints I even had when I spoke to, like, Kato, which is one of the guys at Pimble Brothers, I said to him, like, you know, I find it kind of frustrating that you guys haven't got Sigourney Weaver. He said, well, that was kind of stuff that had been done from the Andrew Highway days. They still, at that point, when they were speaking with Fox, because it wasn't Disney back then, they just couldn't get sign-off. Sigourney Weaver was like, no, you're not having my likeness on it. And even up to what they released, which was seen as the Ripley version, so that's the RV edition of the game. they still at one point didn't even have sign off to have her likeness on the trans light so there were actually two trans lights made for that game one with her face and the other one with her face occluded by yeah I saw it with the robot it was the Apollo 13 so Apollo 13 Tom Hanks wouldn't let him put his face on it he's on there in a space suit with a visor down it's just obviously they had I have done that now, and there's been a whole podcast from someone else, so I won't tread over this, but long story short, they got the sign-off on everything. And to me, it's like not having Sarah Connor in Terminator. I mean, it's like, it's a very prominent character. To not have that person in it would be very mad to me. Alien is Sigourney Weaver. I mean, it's like... It'd be like having Godzilla without Godzilla, you know? It just isn't... Alien isn't about the alien, right? I mean, don't get me wrong, it's important, but the movie's about the whole human aspect of it. It's all about a female protagonist, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. I feel like either you or I have cut off there one thing. Sorry?
    27:49
    I'd break up from you there, so carry on. So, I think it prioritises the recording over our... that's why I think it breaks up but anyway sure i don't think it'll be so we we use a system and occasionally it has its moments um and we did spend i did spend 20 minutes trying to figure out why the freaking hell my microphone didn't work i don't know what it is apple but every time i turn my mac on my microphone and sound stuff's all screwed up please stop that shit um anyway um i am i am a mac fan boy I have been since 1983 when the original Apple Macintosh came out, actually I've got to get it out one day and show you I liked Alien I wanted it again, hopefully it's good and I will be getting the topper because I think it's phenomenal it's a lot of money what did you think of the big debate about the colour though? I get it a lot of people don't realise, and I think this is still true the top is made in Israel and obviously it's not exactly a peacetime over there at the moment. It's difficult to get stuff in and out and it's damn difficult I think for them to probably even get materials. So if there's and they did specify that during production colour variances may occur. Yeah. Am I that hung up on it that it's not what it should be? Not really. Am I a little disappointed? Maybe. No one will notice it.
    29:18
    I think as long as it delivered on what they said it would which is it's mechanical Do you know what I mean? It reacts to the code. It still looks the same. Yes, okay, aesthetically it's got a different color. It's very, I mean, it's a lovely topper, no question about it. Absolutely. It's a definitely. It's up there with Black Knight for me, which, again, we'll be discussing in a bit. Yeah, if you're a fan of that game, and it's not a terrible game.
    29:40
    We had an original Highway one in the club, and for me it just became a super repetitive game. I mean there's more code updates bear in mind now they're on version 4 of the code now they've added a new multiball there's loads of bug fixes in the game there were some issues around that so I'm hoping that is a new experience now that they've kind of ironed out the kinks it'd be good to have another play of it although you know I can't see me ever owning one but I mean don't say no if the price is the way they're going you might get one unless of course they do a BV edition where it's alien and black and white.
    30:23
    God, don't give them that idea. Well, that's a good segue to move into the 70th edition of Godzilla. Well, let me, so, I mean, actually, my pinball world has been pretty quiet. Oh, yeah, sure. I've managed to pay for my John Wick.
    30:41
    So it's on a ship being played by... Wait, you bought a John Wick? I'm surprised by that. So you bought an Ellie? yeah yeah yeah I play the premium I like the game I like what they're trying to do with the game and actually Tim Sexton we're going to talk about Black Knight the way he does code I always kind of like it this game I think shoots really well so I was in the US with work and I was actually in this new pinball place which I forget the name of which is annoying I'll try and remember it so I can give them a shout anyway this great new pinball place has opened up in Santa Clara which is Silicon Valley where I work and they had I think they've got about 25 games and they had both the pro and premium right next to each other so I was able to play both the pro is okay it's not great but the premium is superb I really enjoyed it the car is quite cool and someone else is cool yeah it doesn't have guns on the artwork whatever I'm not really looking at the artwork but the Insider Connected stuff on it is quite cool, anyway it's on the way and hopefully Jaws Premium is on the way, so I've got a Jaws Premium for the club, we're going to take it to Pinfest but it's not I haven't heard where that is so I don't know if it's going to arrive I've juggled a few games around we took Pulp Fiction to Swayze and we're going to take that to Pinfest as well game was just so good I mean people were just kind of it was just rammed constantly playing it how's that clear coat holding up because I know you said you had issues at the rear yeah it's so I'm not seeing any other issues but a few folks on pin side are seeing issues it's certainly worrying I mean I've still got an LE on order the big motherfucker edition and I am super hoping that CGC do something so that that same shit show doesn't happen because if they don't i'm gonna be pretty knocked about it um it's so unlike them as well um yeah i don't i know you're in that crowd that i'm in you don't particularly like the idea of putting down a large bit of plastic protector on top of the playfield just i might i think it feels weird put a bit of mylar down so for example it's different but i'm talking about an entire play yeah i'm just not doing that it's just nonsense but like food fighters and Stranger Things.
    33:15
    They've got a couple of areas where if you don't put Mylar... Normally you see in games heavy wear areas, they put Mylar down. Actually on Pulp Fiction, there's a launch, right? And actually the ball... I kind of turned it down a little bit because the ball was launching so much, it was actually landing after the Mylar part. And if you go on to Pinside, you see loads of people with the Switch that's after the Mylar and it's mangled.
    33:43
    So if you get a Pulp Fiction, just check that out. Turn the power down so it's landing on the Mylar because if it doesn't, it's a pretty heavy landing of the ball and you're doing it every single time you launch, right?
    33:59
    There's a couple of other areas. Again, I haven't looked at this yet on Pinside, but it's not it's somewhat depressing that CGC who are I would never have expected this from them because I got four of the Lyle games and they've all been bulletproof so I'm hoping that whatever it is has happened gets sorted out so that by the time they get to the Bad Mothers the BMF edition which they're supposedly building in September is the latest rumour from, well, some distros in Europe. I'm trying to remember what our bet was, because obviously you cheated a little bit by buying one in the mirror and having it shipped over here. But I'm fairly certain you said you would have had one by now, according to your bet. I said end of March. No, I said, no, didn't I say... I need to go... We'd have to go back. I'm fairly certain I said something like it would be late December this year. didn't you say March next year? Yeah, March next year. I said this year very close to, I think, very close to Christmas. So I think they'll make the LEs, but I don't think they'll make... We'll either get it, I think I said this on another podcast, we'll either get it on the 23rd of December or on the 4th of January. One of the two.
    35:18
    My attack from Mars, weird, I opened the door, and there's a guy there with a pinball machine. I'm like, what are you doing here? They just turned up with it on the 23rd. And I was really happy about that because I had a toy to play with. That is a Christmas present. Same thing happened with Walking Dead. It arrived on the 24th. I had nowhere to put it. And the house was, like, rammed. Oh, God, I worked on Christmas Eve. God. Yeah, the house was rammed with stuff. So I had nowhere to put it. I was, like, just shoving it in the garage. I mean, it was kind of – I was excited about it, but it sat in the garage until New Year's Day because I had nowhere to stick it at the time. This was before I had the big shed. So, yeah, look, I'm excited about it. Again, thanks to Philip Pimbleheaven for sorting me out John Wick and a bunch of other games.
    36:01
    And I'm excited to get John Wick. He's got a lot of cool stuff from Inside Connected. The code's still early. But, yeah, I mean, what have I been playing? I've been playing Jaws and Iron Maiden and Bond 60th almost nonstop.
    36:18
    Jaws is just so good. Everyone seems to keep banging on about how good Jaws is. It's so good. A couple of people I've been watching in the pinball community that are like this call them YouTubers definitely always saying how good that game is and how they've had to make room in their collection just to get it They've done such a great job on the one minute you've got this kind of soft intro and it's like everyone's happy and going to the beach and the next minute you're on the boat and it's like turn the boat around and it's like The code's not even final yet, is it? It's somewhere away from final. That's the crazy thing. Actually, the thing I learned about Jaws, though, which is bizarre, right?
    37:05
    You know, everyone thinks it's about Brody. It's absolutely not about Brody. Last time I thought it was about the shark. Actually, the last thing it's about is the shark, right? Okay, go on. What's your opinion on that, then? Who's it intended at? The game is about the other two guys' names who have just gone in my head. So it's Dreyfus and the other guy. It's about those two.
    37:34
    And the way that they've pulled the whole Jaws game together, you really get a capture of those two really kind of opposites and this kind of bag carrier in the middle of the two. And I watched the movie again, because I think it was 10, 20 years ago, when you turn the channels and you see the last 20 minutes of it or whatever. But I watched it again, and it is absolutely about the – oh, it's going to drive me nuts because he's got a mode. And the Richard Davis character, which everyone will be posting on our YouTube page what the names are. But those two guys and the way that Stern have pulled together this show, And then you've got the night swimming where it dims all the lights and you've got this atmospheric thing. It's probably – I think the part I quite liked was the way they tied in the tilt warning when he's scratching his nails against the chalkboard. Absolutely, and smashes the radio. You can tell they've watched the movie is what I'm saying. Yeah, no, I mean, this is the thing about Keith and his team. They're sticklers for detail like that. Yeah, that's nice. And they're adding more – there's loads of videos in it that they haven't used yet and they're adding more of them. That's good that they've got rights to carry on doing it and keep on adding material. Yeah, no, honestly, I think Jaws is going to be a super close second to Godzilla in terms of people wanting it. The thing is, the theme, because it's kind of,
    39:08
    I wouldn't call it a retro theme or a nostalgic theme, it's an older classic, right? Yeah, yeah. Whereas Godzilla is still kind of modern, kind of retro. So I think Jaws has got a bit of a step back or it's a bit harder for it to be successful, right? But they've nailed it, basically. Actually, my grandson was playing it. And when the shark comes out, he's like, I'm going to hit the shark. And it's just the joy in his face when that shark pops out. No, it doesn't eat the ball, but no one cares. he is so excited about it but yeah they've done a great job so I'm playing Iron Maiden actually Iron Maiden and Bond 60th because they're in the Pinfest tournament and my Iron Maiden is just brutally hard, me and Brad was down here we did a stream and oh my god it was like we were picking you to the curb was it? Yeah Brad's a good player, he's way better than me but he was struggling with it as well What do you do then? Do you just put it on a real high tilt and then the lane's really wide on the out lane? Yeah, it's set real. But actually, I don't know how this happened or when it happened, but it's actually quite floaty. And I'm not used to floaty games. No, I'm not either. I do find it actually really weird sometimes when I go to Pinfest and that. And I'm like, this game feels like it's just been basically like the front leg and the back legs are on equal height. Yeah, and the ball goes down the out lane like in slow motion. yeah and i can't adapt to it because it's going too slow yeah i'm i'm with you on that so yeah and then i got the jaws topper i don't know if i've got that but last time i we were here i can't remember um but it's actually quite cool because it like depending on the time of day it has different lighting um so cool for the money yeah it's great a grand uh i could buy like four small children i'm gonna say this now i think right we'll just move on to godzilla because it's a perfect time to do that now okay yes when they added in the monsters challenge mode code update and said hey this is great it's going to go to all models now yes and no because the reason why i say yes no is that code was exclusive to the topper originally and then was it yeah well it was and let's face it the word exclusive doesn't really mean much as well as what Tom Graff was saying on Triple Drain which is if you go into Stern and you go into Gary's office or Seth's office or George's office and they've got a dictionary and you flip to exclusive it's clear that the page has been ripped out of all those dictionaries right because they do not get what the fucking word exclusive means and it pisses me off if I'm honest with you well yeah because if I'm buying an overpriced piece of plastic which is what it is I'm sorry that topper is an overpriced piece of plastic to me the saving grace is well I've got exclusive code that only is on that topper if you suddenly now make that code accessible to everyone else that devalues my topper mate 100% the worst though was Bond 60th oh yeah absolutely the topper was supposed to be exclusive to the game to the 60th yeah I mean, I don't know. Stern are lucky someone didn't go after them for that, frankly. Not that it's huge. I know we're griping, but I do feel like that's just something Stern need to learn. No, I agree.
    42:48
    Actually, the one thing they did do with the 60th Topper is Keith signed them all. So on the back of it, you see Keith's signature, which is, you know, okay. They realize they've cocked up, right? I actually think the Bond 60 exclusive was a cock-up, not a change of direction. I think the organization. Like miscommunication in the business then. Yeah, I think sales said, we're going to make it exclusive, or marketing said, no, we're going to sell loads of these. That's my take. I don't know if it's true.
    43:17
    Actually, it's a great topper, so I've got two of them. I don't mind having two of them. And they've coded them very differently, so they almost behave differently. But the Godzilla, here's the thing about Godzilla, right? They haven't released this code yet. right i i am going to be i'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and i'm going there's already people waiting for mccree to be wrong i'm going to say that what they give away is going to be different in some shape or form from what the topper is that is my guess right actually let me tell you that would involve of effort on their part I don think so In fact I actually got some exciting news Go on then And I post this on our page Remind me to
    44:10
    The great guy, Paul Boucher, who does mods. I forget the name of his company. It's gone in my head. I need to look it up. I would unfortunately not know who that is. Okay. If you go by the name of the company, you might know. He was on our podcast. Oh, sorry. It's that, Paul. I got a glorious email today.
    44:38
    It's Mojo Mods. Right? So Paul at Mojo Mods did this amazing Godzilla replacement for Godzilla. Like the creature at the back. Yes, I've seen it. The way he does the light up. The light up, right? Absolutely. Paul sent me one earlier to test because he wanted to make sure it fit in the premium alien i said yeah no problem suck it in it is gloriously nice so much better the old one looks like godzuki out of the cartoon it's an anime kind of godzilla right it's green and blue so he's done it more like in black and white right no no no no no even better even better well i don't know if he's going to do a black and white version i doubt it but you never know if there's demand he might do it. Sure.
    45:22
    On the topper, Stern used the same model of Godzuki on the Godzilla topper. And of course, Paul looked at it and thought, and I managed to acquire him a topper when we were in Texas. He looked at it and said, well, that's a load of old toss. And he had built the Godzilla upgrade for the topper. Mine's shipped this morning.
    45:47
    Nice. So it is due to arrive tomorrow between 8.30 and 12.30pm and I'm super excited about this. So somehow... I've got to admit, next to Stumbler's Taikyo sign, these are the two must-have mods for me. Oh, 100%. And actually, I mean, the other mods that Stumbler's done on Godzilla are amazing. Sourcer, yeah. Yeah, he's kind of... He was wondering, we were on the chat, should I do these in black and white? I was like, mate, Here's my issue. So, going to the black and white Godzilla, right, which is this whole exclusive thing, right? They've included a mode, right? We'll find out what that mode is soon when the code drops. It hasn't dropped yet. My Godzilla's been on all day in the hope that it might drop before this, but it didn't. Anyway, you know, it's like, I was like, mate, everyone who's got a Godzilla, everyone who wants a Godzilla surely has got a Godzilla by now, right? That would have been my opinion, yeah. If you want one, they're pretty inabundant and you can get them for two grand off right if someone you know there's not many this is the conversation that was going on on another podcast i was listening to and they were saying oh you know it's a good thing that you got godzilla they hold their value and i thought it's like adam's family though surely there's there's thousands of them yeah it's probably the most sold game stern ever ever had it's still doing runs now whatever it is five years on yeah i i there's got to be at least 10 000 of them out there i honestly don't think they hold their value because there'll be too many of them. Exactly. I genuinely believe it's the best-selling game of all time. I think it's overtaken every other game. Just for the number... Everywhere I go, I see a Godzilla. You know, there's just so many of them. Probably so. I mean, look, I didn't like the game, but I can appreciate it was one of Stern's best innovative pieces. I still think that building mech is insanely good. It's so smooth. Yeah, agreed. I mean, for me, it's a great game. It's a great theme, the music. They got everything right on it. Sure. but you know they come out with this black and white edition now hats off to george and seth they said it would be premium and premium price if they did any more specials they've done that yeah it's annoying to see the limited edition artwork foil in black and white exclusive i think i need to like actually i think we should we should do this um let me just um What are we going to do, like a sound effect every time we say the word exclusive? Yeah, I think we should have an explosion or something. Yeah, an explosion is probably good. I was going to read out the definition of exclusive. I wouldn't. I think everyone knows it but Stern, so I wouldn't worry. Yeah. My point is that I look at it and I go, you're right. I agree with you absolutely. It looks good.
    48:38
    Is anyone going to buy it? ironically it might actually be more rare than the limited edition because there's no doubt it's going to be more rare than the limited edition mate no doubt about it right even though they've not made it limited because there's so many out there it's going to limit the demand now look if you're looking for a godzilla you've got a great position to be able to buy it actually personally speaking uh i've talked to a few people about this i actually think what stern have done is lazy and it's not a criticism of the art or anyone that's working on it but if they wanted to do a black and white Godzilla then go crack open the archive of black and white Godzilla movies and update the game based on one of those movies specifically right what they've done is literally logged into Photoshop and say hey we've only got these three colours boom macro roll bang game print gold monochrome-ing a game is not hard I did it with Dracula as much as someone turn around and say this is my unique car it's not all you're doing is literally putting in a monotone you know i mean you're doing a gothic version of the game basically yeah i mean look i love the game i love the guys that stand on it you know i think they've done a phenomenal job but this is a cash grab there's just no other way to describe it right i think the the blood red kiss edition from elvira was probably more effort oh it was way better way and i think out of all the editions it is for me it's the best one I just don't know if Godzilla would have I don't know as you say, too many people have it Elvira I would say doesn't have that same kind of mass purchase buyout anyway because that's why they did a new run of premiums so for them to kind of do a new run of a limited edition of it was probably a smart move even though I don't really agree with their practices I mean Elvira, if I was an Elvira 40th edition buyer I would be fuming, I would have lost it or if I had an LE or LE I mean my Elvira is a premium because I ordered it late and the LEs are gone so you know and I love the game it's phenomenal but it is a good game I just feel I'm a little bit worried we still keep doing this like and everyone seems to forgive them for it so they can just carry on doing it I suppose well you say that but I don't think I think the this whole LE thing has hurt them I look at WIC, right? They haven't sold out LEs of WIC. They haven't sold out LEs of Bond. Of Bond, of Venom. No. You can still buy a Bond LE. I know people who have them in stock sat in a warehouse. It's crazy. The only game that's sold out, LE, recently is Jaws, right? Yeah, rightly so. It's a good game. And, you know, I think, I absolutely think people are saying, well, I'll just wait for the premium and save four grand.
    51:32
    Well, it's a bit like Jurassic Park. Do you know what I mean? I would have had, if I had to choose out of all of them, I would have had the 30th edition. It's better than the LE. Yeah, absolutely.
    51:41
    And as an LE owner, that infuriated me because actually it was the last proper limited edition. They only made 200 and, they only made 500 of them, I think. 500, I think. Yeah, I had one as well. I stupidly sold it. I shouldn't have really. Yeah. and it's like, oh, well, the one game that has got some exclusivity is, and by the way, that means limiting or limited to possession ownership or use by individual groups there.
    52:13
    So, I might get them up. I think you're going to upset a couple of people. I could be a gag. I could get neon exclusive and send it into the store. Yes, moving swiftly on. But look, I know like Tom Graff, he's a buddy of mine he's on Triple Drain he's like, I'm not buying LEs anymore and he's got every LE there has been since the year dot Wow, okay and I definitely feel that there is a vibe I mean, let me tell you the reason I buy LEs is because it's the quickest way of getting a premium in the UK so if you want if I want Jaws Premium I'd still be waiting for it or I might have got it by now but it wouldn't have been in actually Jaws is a bad example because they had delays but say I wanted Godzilla Premium it might have been the second or third boat over so you're waiting quite a long time waiting for Godzilla LE to get over here I can't remember but it was a long time and then you want the premium it's not on this boat it's on the next one it's like so that's so you don't buy an le because i was gonna ask you if it came from a price point of view so it doesn't bother you then that the machine's now greatly devalued because of other additions no it absolutely does bother me um because the only reason i bring that up is i brought that up in a thread on pinball info and then i got told by certain individuals if you're obsessed with price you're in the wrong hobby not the pinball info superstar club yeah exactly you know but this is the thing it's like i i feel like saying to these people if you're all right losing three to four grand on a purchase i mean good for you personally i think that's terrible i mean like for me i treat them a little bit like a watch and i yeah okay i maybe naively so i always used to think pinball machines would somewhat hold their value only decrease in value a little bit sometimes even increase in value um at least it was around covid times i did not expect to see thousands upon thousands of pounds lost on these games like it makes me go well i'm out of the new inbox because i'm not willing to let that kind of depreciation yeah and and so um am i bothered about le's devaluing 100 i am but let's let's just take a step back for a minute I don't think it's unreasonable for something to say limited edition or exclusive and for that to remain to be the case so here's a question for Stern and I've nibbled at him as I had a bit of a debate with Seth on LinkedIn of all places about the value of you guys keep screwing your best customers, right?
    55:17
    And the LEs, let me tell you, profit margin-wise, 1,000 LEs is probably 5,000 pros, right? I imagine so, yeah. You don't want to bite the hand that feeds you. And that's why I think the premium thing changed. Now, that's a step in the right direction, but is it enough? I'm going to say no, it's not. I honestly think they need to drop the number of limited editions down again. Yes. So that I 100% agree. It should be 500. Right. Then that is truly limited. Although, you know, to be fair to them, Jersey Jack, there's a million limited edition Guns N' Roses out there. Yeah, but you have to go by their collector's edition, right? So I think like collector's edition is their LE. And I can't remember how many Guns N' Roses there were, but it was a low number, wasn't it? 325, something like that? Yeah, but they didn't call that limited. Do you know what I mean? they have a very confusing but then again didn't they fix that with Elton John didn't they change it to a premium edition or something like that at least it's better than the word limited because again Jersey Drac didn't seem to understand what limited is and didn't know what exclusive was limited is you stick a number on it yeah so look I think in my mind so Stern have done what they said they would do which is good on the one hand but it's still, I'm still looking at it question the value because I go buy that black and white one, right? I'll probably get it, I don't know, 11 grand, right?
    56:46
    I'll buy a speaker-like kit and speakers for 250 bucks. I'll buy the top blades for 100 quid and I'll get powder coated by Jiminy Cricket down the road for 80 quid for the whole powder coating. And I've got effectively an LE, right? Yeah. I'm looking at it thinking, if they can do a limited or a special edition for the price of a premium, then where's the value in the LE now, Stern?
    57:21
    Double-edged sword, isn't it? I genuinely believe this Godzilla is a mistake on that part because... Because they put the foil on as well, didn't they? Which can't be cheap. but again they've done it where is the value in the le because it's not limited it's not exclusive so well it's not that really expensive plaque next to the speaker yeah yeah that's right sorry stern i am digging at you but like honestly i i think there needs to be a change in direction in my view i think limited edition needs to be limited you need to protect your collectors they're the people that are providing you the rich margin that you deserve or want and they're the people that when times get hard will still afford to buy stuff. Continue to buy.
    58:07
    I'm hopeful that Stern... Look, they listened the last time when I moaned about this. Also, as an LE owner, let me just count. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 LEs in this room right now.
    58:28
    What do I get for that? Where's the loyalty? Right? If I'd gone out and bought 11 limited edition Ferraris, I'd be having dinner with a Ferrari CEO, right? And, yeah, it's very difficult. I mean, to be fair, the price of Ferraris has been a little bit more than the pinball machine. But I know what you're saying. You know, it's like, hey, I'm a loyal customer, and I've got another five LEs in my storage unit. It's like, you know, what is a – why should I keep – Steren, tell me why I should keep buying an LE. Yeah. Tell me that. Yeah. Because I don't see it right now. Other than the fact that because I live in the UK – You can get it first. I get an LE two months quicker than I get a premium. And actually, you know, I've definitely – It's quite a price premium to pay now, isn't it? It is. I mean, that's the thing. It used to be that the price of LE between premium was only about 2,000, right? Yeah. Now it's, what, four or five? Yeah. But, look, here's the thing, though, right? If I find a, you know, suppose I find a second-hand WIC premium for 10 grand, I could ship it to the UK for a grand.
    59:44
    It's still less than an LE, and I get it quick, right? True. And I can, you know, get Jiminy Cricket to do my powder coat, and I can buy the speakers from Doug. Life is good. You can get Joe Bloggs to do your frequency change. Oh, that's, yeah, that's, that's, oh, I've done it. It's so easy. It'll make you cry. Not that we're advocating such a thing, by the way. Don't do that. It may be illegal. It could set your house on fire, but it probably won't. Anyway, the whole why do I want to buy an LE? And then I look at what's going on right now on Pinball Info,
    60:20
    the superstar of pinball knowledge and information, and I look at poor Phil who's trying to sell a Guns N' Roses CE and someone is it's like I don't know 3 million pounds and someone is selling a Guns N' Roses LE for 8 grand and I predict Phil's future has a 9 at the start of it unfortunately because will it be that low? maybe I mean like I think it might sell at 10 I think it is difficult especially in this market and I we spoke about this offline before but I feel like the market in the US and the UK are in a very bad spot right now if you are in selling a game it is the worst time to be selling I mean I bought I said my alien for a fraction of the cost of what it would have cost me to buy it new and there's a lot of more games that are also fitting into that category right now there's just no money about and i feel like people just don't want to spend that kind of cash i'm sure i remember when did you get in a pinball before covid or during covid i unfortunately joined it right at the height i joined it 2019 this is the thing right before covid what you're experiencing is the normal sure um maybe le's were the one exception they would hang on to value a little bit more but you if you bought an le um you know you're probably going to lose a grand a grand and a half right right when you sold it and and now it's a bit more than that which is frustrating it's the percentage change isn't it because that's what i found with elvira i lost what was it 3,500 on that but percentage wise it's probably about the same because the value of the game has gone exactly it's huge the price of it that it loses is greater so and this is the thing i can't remember what thread it was but there's a thread where you know people say well you know i got two games i want to sell but i can't afford to take the loss i'm like here let me can i just be really clear we have not reached the floor no we haven't no so if you you know if you're sitting on i don't know an eight grand venom pro right or actually let me let me read let me read say you're sitting on a an eight grand or seven grand deadpool right um you're going to struggle very soon to sell that for five grand maybe really maybe i'm i'm super convinced about it i mean i i definitely have felt a massive downward turn i'm seeing i'm seeing aiqs go for five and a half yeah and i think they haven't found a buyer yeah and i'm just like this is this is pretty alarming to me to see these prices drop i mean for you you're seeing the market correcting itself for me i'm seeing because I'm looking at it from a window of where I started to where I am now, I'm just seeing a massive downward trend. This is the thing, everybody's seeing that and thinking, you know, in this market, guys, this market's not going to get any better. But then, that's what is interesting though, because it's a bit like I suppose anything at the moment, whether it's watches or cars or whatever, we're seeing a massive correction in the used market but not in the new purchases yet.
    63:31
    Actually, that's I only back that up with the fact that we're not seeing full sellouts of games, i.e. what we mentioned before. Many stocks left of James Bond Pro.
    63:42
    Inball, that's for sure, but I happen to know quite a lot of car manufacturers you can buy so I was just thinking of a car I just bought. It was cheaper than the one that's replacing.
    63:57
    I'm not saying that there's mounting pressure from the manufacturers is to do a price correction, but I just don't know if that's a domino effect. I don't know how the thing is. This is the pain of inflation, right?
    64:12
    They might have to cut the price, but their costs don't change because they're still, you know, if you think everyone who's had a, you know, a 5% pay rise over the last, I don't know, or the train drivers. Hello, David, it's had 300%. Well, cost of materials, everything. Everything's up, right? Yeah, yeah. You know, we haven't got depression, so none of that. I think the only thing that has come back down is the cost of electronics, at least at the moment. But then again, there's supposed to be a rumoured silicon shortage again soon, so we're going to see some price hikes again, I think. But the cost of electronics overall is still higher than what it was pre-COVID, right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I agree with that statement. So, I mean, there was two issues there. There was a massive demand and shortage, right?
    64:53
    But, you know, I look at handhelds. I buy a lot of handheld gaming consoles because I'm a nutter. and they're definitely, you know, they're in demand, they're maintaining prices. But it's a kind of different market because you're not buying a 150-kilogram bit of wood. But those of you that are, you know, looking at your collection saying, oh, I can't sell this because I'm going to lose this amount of money, you've already lost it. That's the thing. You're not – you've got – you know, you think that you haven't or you think that I'm going to be able to sell this for eight grand or close to what I paid for it. You're just not. And I wish it was not the case because it's going to hurt a lot of people. And actually next, is it next month or the month after, there's something like half a million people coming out of fixed-term mortgages. Oh, right. Okay. That are going to, even though interest rates aren't the peak, they're still going to feel pain. And interest rates, you know, I work for an investment company. company we invest in digital infrastructure interest rates you know our long focus view of them is three and a half to four percent for the for the foreseeable future um it not coming down it not coming down to the two percent one and a half percent you kind of half a percent that we had at one point yeah it's just not going to get to that level and actually that from my perspective that's a good thing because you you You know, at that level, you kind of devalue everything. Sure. But, you know, here's the reality is, and I say this to people, a lot of people ask me, you know, if I'm buying a car, I'm like, dude, don't buy a new car. Go buy one that someone's had for 2,000 miles. Yeah. If you want to buy a pinball machine, go buy one that someone's had, you know, X number of plays on it. Just make sure you ask them politely how many plays it's had because the trigger warning on that one you don't want is someone trying to sell something that's clearly had more plays than it stated but has amnesia um you definitely don't want that um because that's going to piss people off but genuinely um you want to you know or don't buy a game come pinball republic play it there you know well this is the beauty of it right i think like if you're not willing to lose thousands on a game anymore, your better option is to probably, if I'm honest with you, either rent it or go to a place where you can play on a subscription fee like you're offering. You want to play Godzilla and not lose two grand on it when you sell it? Two grand, you get a lot of... Look, you'll get a lot of visits to Pimble Republic. You'll get a lot of plays out of two grand. Not only when you get into Pimble Republic, you can hire a chauffeur to drive you there you can go to your favorite burger joint get a burger uh you can have a night out and then you can play godzilla for five hours on a saturday afternoon and you you know that this is the thing isn't it when you put it into that perspective it really does make you think it used to be so my thinking of that was all around snow tires right okay i'm a big bmw nut as most people know and and you get um and when i'm putting my snow tires on i'm like you're mental it's like wow snow tires and wheels are going to cost you three maybe four grand that's a fucking shitload of ubers um so if it snows and the thing is even if you've got snow tires or snow you know or whatever no one else has them so they get stuck and you get stuck or even worse they don't stop and they plow into you and you're you're like hey i've got my snow tires it's just utter madness so when it when the weather got to that stage i'm an uber um and you get a mighty a lot i mean you literally drive around the world with four grand's worth of uber right so um yeah i mean but i i go back to is you know when you're looking for a game you know just question where is the value there's still some i think for me right i i'm not saying i'm entirely out of the new box because that would be a lie it has to be the right theme if there's the right theme i will part money yeah um and i think like but i won't be in this situation where i let the fomo take control anymore no way absolutely i mean that's the other thing is you got to be sensible about it so yeah you know if you're i mean it's like me i um venom arrived and it sat in the box for two weeks before i opened it that's just nuts right um because i was because i travel a lot so but you know be sensible about it but honestly the other thing is is make sure you play a game before you buy it i wish we could in this country it's damn difficult that's the problem isn't it it is but look, we've got a big community out there. People, you know, they'll come around, they'll make you tea, they'll let you play their games. Some games... I mean from a new-in-box point of view. A new-in-box point of view. Look, then it's about being patient, mate. Yeah, it's true. Well, that goes back to that FOMO statement, so, yeah. Anyone, you know, anyone... If I've got a game that some people want to play, you know, like Pulp Fiction, loads of people have played it in the UK because I brought it here.
    70:02
    You know, and some people have said, oh, I want mine even quicker now. You know, I want it now. Other people think i'm not sure this game's for me um i i suspect more people play it i think there's going to be two of them actually at pin fest um i think because i think gonzo's bringing one and i'm bringing one so it's nice to see that though i know some people might gripe about duplication but sometimes you can't get on a game because some guy sat there and hit four players exactly playing 20 balls actually in pulp fiction 20 balls won't won't take long anyway mate so So it's a challenging game, but it's so well done. It's insane. They just did a code update for it as well, which fixes and changes a few things. But let's move on. Yes. But, you know, Luke, pinballs, you know, the world of COVID where you could tell more than what you got, that was just a fantasy time. Short of another pandemic, and even then I think we would have a very different kind of world those days aren't coming back anytime soon and likely is the market going to get a lot worse before it gets a lot better. Europe's also a shit show in terms of pricing and the 10 grand totem hopefully that world has ended Right we're going to talk about the other thing we wanted to talk about was I forgot, I've lost my list. Hold on.
    71:34
    Was it Pinfest? It was Pinfest, yeah. It was about Black Knight. Oh, Black Knight as well, yes. It's starting to be released, Black Knight. There's a lot of videos and stuff going about it. It's a great game. I encourage everyone to go out and have a look at it. I'm kind of amazed. Have you believed the feedback from when they first did Black Knight? To know that they were doing more of them was kind of a shock. I was surprised because it wasn't well received in our country. I know it wasn't too well received in the US. I liked it I think it was my third game I bought it's brutal I think it's a bit unfair when that mace is spinning and you've got to make your shot for it I hate that it's a tough game but it's got it's a very well produced game the code's pretty simple I liked fighting the bosses I loved it for me the music in the ice mode and the animation I don't know who did the animation but it's so good a lot of things I'm always critical of and this is what I miss about the DMD era is that I found that DMD animations were really nice and then you got to the more modern LCDs and I expected the animation to step up but in some cases it stepped down, a lot of it was like still images with maybe flashing lines behind it and it's like well that's not animation it's expensive to fill that screen absolutely, super expensive people talking about Spike 3 which I'll have, you know, I'll have 4K. I'm like, I doubt it. I think it'll have 1K. I think it'll have HD. Yeah. I honestly think the Black Knight animations are really cool. I mean, I love the game. I've still got my LE. It's still in the corner.
    73:15
    It's a game I'll just never part with. Yeah, it's good. But, you know, I'm hoping that they do maybe drop out another code update or maybe more achievements. We'll see. That would be nice. Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely seeing a lot on the socials of the people talking about it, and a heavy uptake on the topper, but rightly so. It's one of their best toppers. It's great. I mean, it's, you know, Foo Fighters has kind of ripped it off, but it is a great topper. Yeah.
    73:42
    And then the other big topic is haggis. Oh, yes, of course. I don't mean with neeps. The Scottish nasty meal that you guys invented.
    73:55
    It's a delicacy, my friend. It's a delicacy. So as of today, which is Wednesday the 17th of July, there's a post on Pinsai where someone's posted a photo of the factory being emptied. And apparently they've been evicted.
    74:14
    And ultimately it's definitely the beginning of the end, I would say, or at least a confirmation that the end is in sight. um it's a real shame because i mean like i was saying to you before i agree and again it's just i like to see pinball companies outside of the u.s yeah thriving yeah and i i quite like the the what they did with fathom and i i saw centaur when uh carrie hardy did that yeah release video and it looked good but then when he played it i was like maybe not so so i've said i'm not a fan I've played The Fathom both editions of it and it's a gorgeous looking game, it plays lovely Marty and Damien, really nice guys I feel for both of them because they put their heart and soul into this and it's a shame It's a real shame because I'm more worried I suppose about the people that put money down and now they're going to lose it Yeah, I mean I've seen Phil his old three games Yeah, that's from the forum for those yeah so and then but you know uh and then zach meanie who runs flipping out pinball actually a really great retailer in the u.s um he is he was the kind of sole distributor for the u.s and i think he's going to swallow a lot of deposits um but you know my you know my kind of take is hey we've still got 20 of this old game and build but we're launching our new game and we want deposits. For me, the alarm bells were just ding-a-ling-dinging at that point. And in the UK, that by definition is operating insolvently. It is illegal to do that here in the UK. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to do it in Australia because most of their laws are similar to ours. It's basically the equivalent of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Yeah, absolutely. And all these companies that have had all the big issues have done this. You know, Hy-Vee did it. you know um deep root did it everyone's gone through this this sort of deposit this non-refundable deposit shit show um and it definitely puts a lot of um i think anxiety over any new business now asking for money because then you're seeing all these failures far too common now right yeah you look at the barrels of fun guys who got labyrinth out the door i mean you know i mean i i took the right attitude they showed up with a working set of games exactly they kept everyone quiet they got it out boom and they're able to you know they move the games out but you know i can imagine you know if you put your deposit down you know back in march when they announced it oh sorry back in october when they announced it like dutch pinball right there that's the problem where for ages it was like are we going to get a game i mean my hat's off to the i mean i have to say i was i i genuinely was wrong on whether they would recover from that i was saying they're never coming back fair play to them for working through it thank god in a way because i say again it's just people getting what they wanted right a lot of people like that license i mean some people waiting eight years for a game i mean that's crazy you know and then yeah and also the games there's so many of them now the values dropped out the floor of them so it's it's it's a kind of two-edged sword on that but um and they've you know apparently they've got back to the future so um that'll be you know if you're a big fan of that do you put the grand in and wait for, I don't know, six months? A quick one on that, I didn't realise, but the guy that plays Marty McFly's dad...
    77:49
    George, yeah. Yeah, George McFly. I can't remember the name of the actor, but... He's in the core, I think, or something. Well, the whole thing happened that they took the mould of his face and then used that as basically an additional prosthetic mask for the second film because he didn't want to act in it because he didn't like the way the story ended in the first film because it was a focus on, you know, they have wealth, they're happy, and he didn't like that. He thought they have love, they are happy, which was the basic thing of it. He's a fucking actor, man. I know. And then in the second film, he was like, I don't like what's happening with my character. So there was a lot of, obviously, fallout with the director. But as a result, he obviously won that court case to not have his appearance, his likeness, because that's his IP. So that means I imagine some difficulties now to have his likeness and his face in a pinball machine. Yeah, but I mean, I think they can get away with that. Maybe.
    78:45
    There's a way that they can cope with that. Look, he's an important character, but he's not like a core character. It'd just be interesting to see how they handle it. Oh, yeah, absolutely, for sure, for sure. Anyway, look, hopefully Haggis will turn that around, but it's hard to see. If you're working with a new pinball company that you don't know, they're just new kids on the block if you give them that thousand bucks make sure you give them a thousand bucks so you can afford to lose or put on a credit card take precautions exactly or just wait for them to turn up and then buy one second hand go back to your previous statement, be patient just so quick, just before we we've actually got through this pretty quickly this might be the shortest podcast ever Scott do you know one comment on that i was actually genuinely surprised by a lot of people that messaged me and said so we said one they said where's the podcast i said i actually haven't spoken to neil i'll see where he's at and see if we can meet up to have a do another session yeah and then i said um you know if you've got any feedback i'd be interested to see what you say they said don't shorten it yeah sure so i was always toying with the idea of telling neil we should try and keep it to like 15 30 minutes he says nope and i've had that from 20 people now yeah me too which is not a huge amount by any means but i mean it's still a number to turn around and say every one of them said actually i like it long i leave it running when i'm doing a long journey or while i'm working in the background so hey yeah maybe we're onto something i think 90 minutes is is that is kind of the good target time yeah we are going to do a pin fest special of the week of pin fest um yeah just to cover what's going on and who's what and I might unveil my special t-shirts but yeah we're excited about that UK Open tickets are on sale please buy one, actually there's only 20 left I think, we're almost sold out which I'm kind of pleased about and but there's still tickets to be sold for UK Pinfest so if you're going, get your ticket sign up for the comps do what you need to do also keep an eye out on the Pinball Republic website for our big reopening and I'm trying to think what else to cover I think that's it from my perspective it's been a quiet month Pinball-wise obviously what's happening with Haggis is sad and obviously what Stern is doing is nothing new I think what I would like to see from Jersey Jack is probably well I want to see Harry Potter and I'm hoping it's Harry Potter I don't know if I'm excited about the theme but I'm excited to see what they're going to do with it if they have got it which it seems they have I think I just wouldn't want to be the person that's working on it because everyone's mental model I've said this before, everyone's mental model of what they want in a Harry Potter seven books and if Keith play it safe and just base it on the movies because they've got all the movie assets anyway well seven movies then or whatever in fact it's eight isn't it because it's a part one part two but actually I've barely seen any of the movies I'm not a fan of Harry Potter I thought it was a lot of fun nah there was no fucking spacemen or ninjas in it so it was like it was dead to me you've got to have spacemen ninjas for sure I'm trying to think of like what theme actually has Spaceman Ninjas in it?
    82:29
    No, you have to have both. You have to have one or the other. No, I'm just saying it would be an interesting mix.
    82:35
    Mandy says, I want to go see this movie. I was like, Mandy, there's no Spaceman and there's no Ninjas in it. I can't. Off topic, I did watch one film that was quite disappointing, despite rave reviews. Furiosa.
    82:47
    No, I knew that would be shit. It had shit all over it. Yeah, it starts off good enough, 20 minutes in, 30 minutes in, then it completely just goes bleh. You get halfway through the film, you're looking at your watch, is it over yet? It's weird because I think the Fury Road is so good.
    83:07
    I love Fury Road. I saw a great movie. Ever since I turned to 30, my brain's been like cheese. Let me just find the name of it. it's a sci-fi where aliens invade.
    83:25
    It's called The Quiet Place Day One, right? Oh, Quiet Place. Right, yeah, yeah. So I haven't seen the original. There's two movies before this. That's right. Quiet Place and Quiet Place Part Two. Yeah, apparently Part Two's terrible. But Quiet Place Day One, this is a prequel. I have to say that movie blew my mind away. That was such a great film. Don't spoil it for me because I'm going to watch that. I won't. but I would definitely recommend that don't bother going to see Fly Me to the Moon it's a load of old shit and yeah, Furious, I kind of knew that would be doomsday It's a shame because I hope it doesn't affect their chances of doing a Mad Max film in the future but it's weird they say it's a Mad Max saga I can say it quite safely without giving too many spoilers, he shows up in it for about five seconds and he's just standing on a cliffside looking down. That's it. That's his inclusion in the film. It is all about the character Friosa, which is fine.
    84:28
    But it's so slow and it's really a story that didn't need to be told if I'm honest with you. That's the bottom line of it. I'm kind of looking forward to Deadpool and Wolverine and Twister. Yes. I'm not Twister really.
    84:45
    It's just a reboot. There's no ninjas and spacemen in that. No. I'm going to that. Mandy wants to see that. She liked the original one. Did you ever like the Twisted Pinball Machine? It's okay.
    84:58
    It's okay. It's not made in the dark days of pinball. It's not the worst game. It was actually in the Indisc Tournament Bank a couple of years ago. And I enjoy playing it. It's not a super tough game, but it's fun. Isn't that where Turtles got its idea for the spinning disc, right? Yeah. There's a spinning disc in it and there's a bunch of other stuff in it that's quite cool.
    85:19
    Yeah, I kind of liked it. But anyway, look, this has been great to catch up. I hope everyone's enjoying pinball.
    85:30
    This weekend, I think it's this weekend or maybe next weekend, there's Pinburg. I was supposed to be going, but because of work, I can't make it, unfortunately.
    85:40
    And then there's obviously all the leagues are coming to an end. And actually, congrats to Die who's taking over the South East League which is going to be great so because it hasn't been great for a while looking forward to that I'm going to host a round here at the old Domino Arcade and I think that's it from me and actually one other small thing for those that you read for those of you that remake WPC games, Pinball Life have got some really unobtainable parts on lights that have been unobtainable for a while. Especially the ones that go on the back box wood bit.
    86:28
    Oh yeah, okay. They're now in stock. And also those with Stern games, check your mounting brackets because Stern were using these really crap screws in the past and you want to change to the WPC ones because eventually they will snap, basically. So I've been changing them all out in the games here. Sounds like their call stops.
    86:54
    Has that stopped being a problem now, by the way? Well, I think since they replaced the bushing, I think they're less of an issue. I certainly haven't had to swap any. I've seen any brass filings showing up, is what I'm saying. Oh, actually, I did forget one thing. My Meteor came back from refurbishment, so it got a new playfield, and Keith did it, and it looks... I haven't played it yet because it's in my garage but it looks glorious, can't wait to get out, anyway look this was Scott and Neil, watch out for our Pinfest special, we'll probably release it the Monday or Tuesday ahead of Pinfest and we'll see you there and enjoy the summer and probably a quieter time for pinball over the next few weeks but watch out for what's going on in Pinball Republic and everyone who's running events or running pinball places or doing stuff, thanks a lot, it's appreciated but always I could end with a song which is always look on the brighter side of life and with that goodbye see you soon