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EP 23 - Why Are You Selling It?

Flip n Out Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·43m 45s·analyzed·May 13, 2026
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Pinball sellers vent about buyer etiquette and collection turnover frustrations.

Summary

Ken Cromwell and Greg Bone discuss the frustrations of buying and selling pinball machines, including annoying buyer behavior like asking "why are you selling?" and arriving unprepared. They also discuss their personal collection turnover habits, nostalgia for older pinball eras, and upcoming changes to their own collections. The episode touches on broader pinball community dynamics around buying/selling etiquette and collection curation.

Key Claims

  • Ken has owned Star Trek (Steve Ritchie) multiple times and keeps returning to it despite getting tired of it quickly.

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell discussing his collection patterns and the Sam's era games he's targeting

  • Greg's Toy Story 4 sale generated approximately 69 pages of discussion on Pinside due to community backlash about him selling a well-regarded game.

    high confidence · Greg Bone recounting the Toy Story 4 sale controversy on Pinside

  • Ken sold his Metallica Remastered to fund a down payment on his wife Chelsea's new car approximately 1-1.5 years ago.

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell explaining reasons for selling games in his collection

  • Ken recently started drumming at age 43 as a midlife crisis pursuit and is rearranging his basement to accommodate a drum kit.

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell discussing his recent hobby acquisition and basement reorganization

  • Greg describes keeping high-value vintage games like Lethal Weapon 3 and Stargate in good condition specifically because finding clean examples of these older games is difficult.

    high confidence · Greg Bone explaining his strategy for retaining older show-quality machines while selling newer titles

Notable Quotes

  • “Why are you selling the game? ... Like, why? Why do you care? Why? Because none of it matters. Like, like if I'm trying to pull one over on you and I'm trying to sell you a broken game, you know, it was like, hey, why are you selling the games or anything wrong with anything? It's like, well, first of all, I would have listed in there if there was something wrong with it.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~15:00-16:30 — Core complaint driving the episode—Ken's frustration with buyers asking why he's selling games, which he views as an unnecessary and suspicious question

  • “I very rarely will keep a game past about three months if I own it personally. That's just how I've always been. Nothing is bolted to the floor ever.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~18:00 — Establishes Ken's collection philosophy of constant rotation and experimentation

  • “When I sold that game, there was something like 69 pages on Pinside about my game for sale. Why? Because people were so pissed off that I liked that game and I was selling it.”

    Greg Bone @ ~20:00-21:00 — Demonstrates the intense community scrutiny and drama that can result from controversial game sales

  • “Most every game I've ever sold I've liked, but I want to get something else in. Yeah, and my clutch is full.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~17:30 — Explains the core reason for frequent sales—space and acquisition of new games, not dissatisfaction

  • “They got all kinds of stuff. I don't know why anybody would ever want to swim with a stingray. Like, they're disgusting looking and slimy and flippy and they got the big barb. Isn't that how Steve Irwin died?”

    Greg Bone @ ~3:00-4:00 — Humorous opening anecdote about Greg's upcoming Discovery Cove trip to Florida

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonGreg BonepersonFlip N Out PinballcompanyZach MenypersonChelseapersonSteve RitchiepersonPinsideorganization

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Discussion of what constitutes acceptable buying/selling behavior in pinball community, including asking 'why are you selling', arriving unprepared for pickup, renegotiating after agreement, and attempting to guilt sellers into price reductions based on travel distance

    high · Extended discussion by both hosts of buyer behavior that frustrates sellers, framed as common issues they encounter repeatedly

  • ?

    collector_signal: Ken's personal collecting strategy emphasizes rapid rotation (rarely keeping games past 3 months), cyclical returns to beloved games, and maintaining a curated set of 'keeper' vintage titles while constantly trading/selling newer acquisitions

    high · Ken explicitly states he rotates collection frequently, owns Star Trek multiple times, and deliberately holds vintage games like Lethal Weapon 3 and Stargate long-term for their rarity and condition

  • $

    market_signal: Clean examples of vintage pinball machines (Lethal Weapon 3, Stargate) have become difficult to acquire and expensive, creating incentive for collectors to retain them long-term rather than sell, even when space-constrained

    high · Greg mentions Lethal Weapon 3 costs approximately $12,000 in modern market and is hard to find in good condition; Ken keeps Stargate specifically because clean examples are scarce

  • ?

    community_signal: Sales of controversial or highly-regarded games generate intense community discussion and backlash on Pinside, with buyers/collectors scrutinizing seller motivations and game condition in ways that create social pressure

    high · Greg's Toy Story 4 sale generated approximately 69 pages of Pinside discussion; community was 'pissed off' that Greg was selling a game he publicly liked

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.131

0:00
Hey, what's going on Pinball Land? Welcome to episode 23-023 of Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast. Greg Bone is with me today and I am Ken Cromwell and together we host this Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast. Greg, what's up buddy? How are you been? What's happening? We're doing good, man. I'm leaving for a trip tomorrow, so I'm super excited. Where are you going? Orlando.
0:34
Oh, Orlando. I'm down there too much, yeah. But this was just a wife and I trip. Oh, so no kids. Yeah, we're going down to Universal, which we always do. We're season pass holders. But we're taking her. She talked me into taking her to Discovery Cove. It's a place down there, and it's like a couple of separate lagoons. It's like a resort type thing. It's kind of crazy. They've got like this. They got three dolphin pools. So they literally have dolphins. You can lay on this like manmade beach and watch the dolphins in this little lagoon. And then you have an experience where you can walk up and pet the dolphins and you get to do this stuff. And then there's a whole big pool that's got a reef in it and stuff. So you can snorkel with fish and stingrays and stuff. And then they get some big ass. I can't remember what kind of sharks in a pool, but then it's got a glass separate. So then when you're snorkeling, you can like literally swim up to that glass and it's like you're right up next to the sharks, just all kinds of crazy stuff. So she talked me into that. So we're going to do that and then just ride the lot. So are you going to swim with dolphins and stingrays? Are you going to get in the water? And yeah, yeah, you get in the water with them and everything. Yeah, it's that kind of resort. Like they give you a wetsuit and all kinds of stuff. And the best part, all inclusive drinks. The best part for some. So needless to say, we will be swimming early. Yeah, that's pretty good. I don't recommend getting liquored up and swimming with aquatic animals, though. I've heard some stories and I've watched a couple of- Chelsea's scared one of the dolphins is going to hump her. Not to get weird, but I've heard stories of dolphin trainers being pulled under the water by their hair and stuff like that. And then I don't know why anybody would ever want to swim with a stingray. Like, they're disgusting looking and slimy and flippy and they got the big barb. Isn't that how Steve Irwin died? Yeah, but that's like a different kind of stingray. Like that son of a bitch was like a fucking size of a little car. It looked like. Yeah, those are scary. When I used to live in Clearwater, you'd go out to Pier 60 and I don't know, it goes out maybe 100 yards into the water. And then you would look down at nighttime because they'd have the spotlights and the stuff swimming back and forth at the extension of the pier. Oh, right then and there. I was like, I'm never going to go in the ocean, man. Like, these are crazy. There's a lot of like when we're on vacation to Gulf Shores and stuff, they got a nice pier there. I mean, you see all the sharks and you see everything just because, you know, everybody's fishing off there and dropping shit and everything. And it's just kind of a safe haven around there is do there's shit all over the place. The other ocean kind of creeps me out. Like, oh, she's very creepy. Yeah, like these these like in a pool and then like a maintained environment. Not so much. But the ocean is actually kind of it's kind of scary. I don't even want to clean a freshwater aquarium like with by hand for goldfish. I'm not I'm not like I'm not a water person, but I do have a question for you with the ocean. Do you believe in mermaids or sirens? Because the sirens are the ones that like compel you to come into the water. Supposedly they sing you or lull you and you're like, I gotta get I gotta get the water and swing with some. I wish mermaids. I would like mermaids. I don't know if you'd like a better question, Ken. So do you think that there's room in the pinball world for an ocean pinball machine? I'm just bullshit. It's like, it's like our space transition. Can we pull this one out? Right. Avatar, yay or nay? Yeah. Go deep sea with two lower plate fields. Yeah. Fathom, were you ripped off? I know one person in this company that absolutely was. God, Zach. Terrible, terrible. I don't even want to think about ocean aquatic themed pinball machines anymore. Well, why don't we do this? We'll get into the episode. First, I wanted to say we both wanted to welcome a couple people to Patreon. You can go to patreon.com slash flipping out pinball podcast. There's a free tier there. There's some paid tiers if you want to help support the show and get involved in a little bit more of a special way. But I wanted to say and Greg wanted to say warm welcomes to DR, Brian, Anthony and Donald. Donald coming in at the big backstage pass level. So DR, Brian, Anthony and Donald, welcome to Patreon. Good to have you guys here. Patreon has been an interesting fun place. Brian, make sure to watch for that email for our next meetup next month. I had a good time with the meetup. You know, that last meetup that we had, we call it After Hours. It's where everybody jumps on in Patreon tier two and three. And you we hang out for, I don't know, 90 minutes on like a Google Zoom and we just talk about pinball, talk about a little bit of life. But that was really good conversation last week. A lot of good. That was one of the best meetups we've had. I thought so too. It's a little smaller. Like we had some people that. Yeah. Mr. William Moore. William has showed up to everything. I missed William. I missed William in there. I did, too. And he said it was simply because he something where he got confused about the time. I think he said he thought it was starting at seven thirty. And that's that's actually when it was ending. So extended happy Mother's Day to all the moms out there who have given birth or adopted or have played the role of a mother for. I told my wife, my kids were acting up on Mother's Day a little bit. And I said, you know what? I kind of regret that we even have to celebrate this day.
Star Trek
game
Toy Story 4game
Metallica Remasteredgame
Lethal Weapon 3game
Stargategame
Jurassic Parkgame
Halloweengame
King Kong Premiumgame
Star Wars LEgame
Walking Dead (original)game
Ghostbustersgame
X-Filesgame
Earthshakergame
?

operational_signal: Common problems with pinball buyers include arriving in vehicles too small for machines, lack of equipment preparation, arriving without intent to purchase, and attempting to test-drive collections before committing

high · Ken describes buyer arriving in small car expecting to fit machine with removable head; buyers showing up to look at games and then wanting to play other non-sale machines in collection

  • ?

    venue_signal: Flip N Out Pinball's crate system and trade-in service is increasingly popular with customers specifically because it eliminates the friction and interpersonal awkwardness of private sales and pickup logistics

    high · Ken notes that most customers use Flip N Out's crate system to avoid 'back and forth, tire carriers, somebody showing up at their house' and the general difficulty of dealing with sellers

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Both hosts express preference for Williams/Bally SAM (System 11) and pre-DMD era pinball machines over modern games, citing superior theming, call-outs, and sound effects from that 'heyday' period, despite it being objectively older technology

    high · Ken describes cycling back to SAM games, praising their theming and call-outs (Star Trek, Ghostbusters); Greg notes he prefers solid-state/DMD over System 11 but skips alphanumeric era as 'blasphemy'

  • ?

    personality_signal: Ken and Greg emphasize transparency and honesty in game condition listings, viewing attempts to hide defects as fundamentally dishonest and inconsistent with their personal values as sellers/dealers

    high · Ken's repeated emphasis that defects would be listed upfront and that dishonest sellers would not admit problems even when confronted; Greg's willingness to renegotiate price when described condition differs from reality

  • ?

    content_signal: Flip N Out Podcast has established Patreon tiers (free, tier 2, tier 3 'Backstage Pass') with regular 'After Hours' Zoom meetups (90 minutes) for paid subscribers to discuss pinball and life, described as having good engagement and conversation quality

    high · Ken welcomes new Patreon members (DR, Brian, Anthony, Donald), mentions 'one of the best meetups' recently held, discusses regular After Hours meetings

  • ?

    personality_signal: Ken's recent decision to take up drumming at age 43 is triggering cascade of collection reorganization and game sales, with music-making equipment now taking priority space in basement previously occupied by pinball machines

    high · Ken states he started drumming at 43 as 'midlife crisis,' purchased Rock Band/Guitar Hero equipment for family, rearranged entire basement to accommodate drum set, eliminated sitting room to create space

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Cryptic reference to Stern Pinball game 'coming out here imminently' but no specific title, manufacturer, or release details provided; hosts defer fuller discussion to later in episode

    medium · Ken states 'Stern's got a game that's going to be coming out here imminently. So we can talk about that a little bit before we wrap up the episode' but does not elaborate in provided excerpt

    • 5:38
    It's like, see, these kids, you wanted these things. She didn't catch it at first. She was kind of like, what? Right. Think about it. I had back to back jacks. I had family here two days in a row. So I did the same thing. Smoked ribs, hamburgers, hot dogs on the Weber sides. That was Saturday. Completely exhausted. Did the exact same thing on Sunday with with other family. And I was like, ah, I'm dreamt. My wife hasn't been to the basement in probably years. And she actually came down, played some old school Steve Ritchie Star Trek. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, on Mother's Day. I was kind of impressed. She goes, oh, I forgot we had this. I forgot you had that. Yeah. It's this December. Does it hold up? What do you have, a premium or a pro? Pro. I kind of prefer the pro. Yeah, I like the pro or LE, like the premium. I don't really like the red. I don't really like that back glass. I kind of like the characters on the pro, honestly. I know it's kind of crazy, but I really enjoy them. You know, it's one of those pins that to me, I've owned that pin several times and it's one of those things that gets old to me.
    6:41
    I'll say kind of fast just because I've had it so much, but then I always yearn for it back. So now it's kind of a staple. I'm going through that weird, so I'm kind of doing a turnover. So I've got that and I got Walking Dead, the original, and then I'll most likely pick up a Ghostbusters. So like I'm kind of in a weird, like I do that with phases. I'll go through, you know, I'll have all new Sterns and then I'll kind of go back to my Sega Data East and so forth. But like right now I'm going, I'm going back to the Sams for some reason. Like, but, you know, Zach and I talk about that all the time. It's just one of those things that that that was the heyday of Pinball to us because that's when we kind of got into it. Yeah. And I mean, some of the theming and stuff that you got on those games was just phenomenal. Anyways, like call outs on on Walking Dead, it can't be said for his horrible call outs. But, you know, with Star Trek and Ghostbusters, amazing call outs, amazing sound effects. Like they were just so fucking spectacular then. So that's kind of where my feel is going right now. So I'm turning over a lot of my collection to to be able to to get my Sam's back. You know, it's interesting you say that because I started with Earthshaker, a System 11 pin, right? 1989 Williams. And I don't know that. I mean, I bought a couple of System 11s as I was getting into the hobby. I don't think I ever went back to any System 11s. I don't think I ever went back and bought any of the System 11s. I've never owned a single System 11. I'm disappointed because there's good games, but I mean... There are good games. I need it. The transition from System 11 to like DMD era games was so significant to me that it's like I almost felt like in a sense I was going back from System 11 to like an EM when I made that jump from like DMD back to alphanumeric. I owned a, what was the other one? Oh, Meteor. That's like 1979, but that's solid state. And then I've owned a couple of EMs back in the day. EMs just never clicked with me. I appreciated them for what they were, but I don't like working on them. I'm not familiar with them at all. I don't know. EMs don't really appeal to me. I mean, they do, I guess. But like you said, like maintenance, I just don't know. Sometimes it's hard to find people to work on them. System 11s, like I like there's some good games, but like I kind of go back to a solid state. Like that's where I would want to go. To me, that's like got more of a nostalgic thing to it. Like $6 million man, that sort of thing. Like I almost would skip System 11s. I know that's kind of blasphemy, but I'd rather be solid state or DMD era. Yeah, I would even go back to some of the older Sega stuff like X-Files. I just I love the theme so much for X-Files. Oh, I owned it. I thought I would like it more. It's just it's tough, man. It's a tough shooter. You know, it's a decent rule set and stuff, but it's kind of tough because I always thought I would want to own one so I could get the flow and stuff down of it. And I did not like it as much as what I thought I was going to. It's not a smooth shooter. I think at some point somebody or there was discussion where it was being compared to the general layout of like Theater of Magic. But when I was playing it, I never put that together. I assume I have to look at the layouts. But I don't do that anyways. I was I was talking to a local buddy about that. Kind of interesting. You brought that up because he he's actually a customer of ours, too. And he was talking about how he's busting another guy's balls about Guardians of the Galaxy and Metallica being the same game. And I'm like, they're not, though. I was like, I've got Terminator 2 sitting right next to Lethal Weapon 3 and there's not like nothing. Nothing feels the same. I think there was a lawsuit for that layout. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But it doesn't feel the same. And that's my same argument on Guardians of the Galaxy Metallica. Like, I don't care. Like, it's not like nothing about it feels the same. And you you really can't take just a normal layperson and let them play both games and either any of them pick out and say, oh, well, these games are very similar. Do you think that Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness when you're playing them do they feel like the same game? No, not at all. They don't to me either. I mean obviously the layout's very similar as a fan layout would be, but I would have both in a collection and be fine with it. It's just like the inline drops on like Guardians or on Metallica versus you know like the kickback from Rocket and different stuff like there's just like there's enough variance in there and then the code and the theming and the call outs and everything. Like it just it all of it adds up to where just none of it feels like the same game Like I a firm believer that if you do like you could literally take the exact same game and reskin it and you do different call outs you do different rules set and maybe tweak and change a few very small things like that And I think that you would have an entirely different experience on that game. Yeah. Like, whoa, Nelly, Big Juicy Melons and Primus. Yeah. Completely different games. I know. What's going on? I know. So, so, yeah, I'm looking at turning, turning over some stuff. This is kind of blasphemy. I got a couple games for sale right now. Greg, do you want me to open an interest list for your personal inventory? I should. Well, I've had some people get confused because I've got games listed on Pinside. They came in just wanting to trade and have Tim drop a game off and use the crate and everything. And I'm like, this is my personal game. It's not flipping out, man. I know. I have two games here from flipping out. I've got the Star Wars LE that we took to Expo, and then I've got that God, not Godzilla, the King Kong Premium. Yeah. And those are going to go up for sale, but we're just going to sell them out of St. Charles. So I'm wondering how many people are going to think that I'm selling my personal games through Flip N Out. I'm not. So when these games come up for sale here in the coming weeks, I just have to get some pictures. Yeah. Those are Flip N Out. I got to make sure people know that. There's a line there. There's a line. So I had something. I wanted to ask you about this. It's not really a hot button topic, but it was something that I've ran into a few times, listing games. And this this guy that wrote me again, this is for one of my personal games. And this guy didn't mean anything by it. Like he's nice guy. So it's nothing at all against him. But, you know, I've ran to it before and it just it kind of irks my ass. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine when somebody writes you and they ask you, why are you selling the game? I yes. Like, why? Why do you care? Why? Because none of it matters. Like, like if I'm trying to pull one over on you and I'm trying to sell you a broken game, you know, it was like, hey, why are you selling the games or anything wrong with anything? It's like, well, first of all, I would have listed in there if there was something wrong with it. And if I didn't list in there and I'm going to try to pull one over your on you, then I'm sure shit not going to. Oh, man, now that you ask, I got to come clean. You know, a lie. Yeah, exactly. Like liar, liar. Like, so it just drives me crazy. And then, like you said, like, what's it matter why I'm getting rid of it? I'm selling the game. The game is working. Like, like, well, this is the thing. If somebody asks you that, there's nothing that you can say that would make them want to buy the game more. No, you're like, you're like, well, I played it. And I actually I kind of realized the game's kind of shitty. Yeah, I've you know, I good luck. And I have done that before. And I think that that's I don't know if that's what people are looking for when they ask that or if it's just like some psychological, just innate thing. The game just resets randomly and no tech's been able to figure it out. I know. So I need to unload it, get it off my plate. But I have told people, I have said before, like, hey, it's just the game's not for me. Yeah, I've said that. You know, I mean, some games are not, but at the same time, like, there's a whole host of things, and some things can be very private, some things can be really weird. So it's like, what do you respond? Do you have to respond with some bullshit, something vague, and that makes them feel uncomfortable while asking it. And then, you know, sometimes I get put under extra scrutiny because like goddamn Toy Story 4. Fuck me, man. Like, I love that game. Yeah, I was going to say what's wrong with Toy Story. That's a good game. I'm not lying, Ken. When I sold that game, there was something like 69 pages on Pinside about my game for sale. Why? Because people were so pissed off that I liked that game and I was selling it. And I'm like, oh, man, I'm just over it. Greg, most every game I've ever sold I've liked, but I want to get something else in. Yeah, and my clutch is full. Yep. I very rarely will keep a game past about three months if I own it personally. That's just how I've always been. Nothing is bolted to the floor ever. Yep. I agree. And I literally just started this weekend. My freaking basement is a disaster. Like, I have started rearranging games and collections because I recently started drumming at 43, midlife crisis. I love that, man, because guess who plays a little guitar? Oh, I know. Like, dude, I can't wait to jam out with you. What is? Two thumbs and is like a halfway shitty guitar player. Dude, we'll have a blast. Like, Zach's gonna die because I can fit these in the Tesla. I'll come down and next time we're hang out and we're gonna have a fucking band. We're gonna piss these neighbors off. You just need to learn like the intro to 150 90s rock alternative songs because that's all that I can play is about the intro. It's all so easy, bro. It's just fucking bass snare fucking hi-hat. You know what we'll do? We'll get one of those extended medleys where we just get like 10 songs and just run them into one another. But it's only like the first the first opening of all these songs. Yeah. All right. We're in. We're in. I know. Maybe we ask for Patreon, like, give us 10 songs. We're going to learn them. Yeah, we're going to learn them and play. Right. But so we'll do a live concert. That'll be our after hours. We'll just do concerts. We should our meet up. Oh, my gosh. Ken and Greg. We'll lose Patreon fast. So I had my drum set behind our couch and stuff down in the basement and I didn't really like it there and I kind of wanted its own space over in a corner where I had some pins. So I was like, okay, I need to get rid of some pins, but there's so many that I cannot get rid of. So I've literally torn my basement apart rearranging things and doing away with one room that I had that had a sitting space in it for pins. And so like all weekend long, that's all I did, because some of my games like I can't get rid of any of my Jurassic Park collection. I've got one of the nicest Terminators to ever exist. Yeah, I wouldn't get rid of that. Yeah, not at all. Like and and I love my Lethal Weapon three. I love my Halloween. I would certainly get rid of that Lethal Weapon. I know. Everybody would. But I can't get rid of it. So I needed to move stuff around because there's things that I can't sell. So there while it sounds crazy that something downstairs we'll do this one at a time. And I'll say, drain it or save it on this. Oh, I know, I know. We'll have to go through them. But I've gotten rid of most everything I get rid of right now. I got Stargate, too, that I can't get rid of. See, you get these games back, man. You know how many times I've owned a game two, three times? I know, but, dude, they're so, like, my lethal weapon's in pretty good shape. I paid such, like, a small amount for it.
    17:03
    Good. It's probably $12,000 a game now these days with Pinball pricing. And like I've got very little money into my Stargate and it's actually a really super clean example and they're hard to find like not all torn up or mylar awful on it and bubbling and everything else. So like there's just weird stuff like that that I just and I just don't want to have to try to track it down. So I kind of tend to get rid of some of my newer stuff and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, they're just accessible. Yeah, yeah. But those older kind of show pony games like I get it. You're not going to find them in nice condition most of the time. And so that's hard to explain to somebody, like, why would you get rid of this new game that you love and you're keeping Lethal Weapon 4? That must mean you don't love that game. And it's like, no, not that at all. It's just I can obtain that newer game easier than what I can a good condition older game. And I don't want to have to hunt for it if I'm in the mood for it. I don't want to look for it where I can go pick up, you know, most other things relatively quick stuff. But, yeah, so, you know, it's just kind of an odd thing to always ask that because, you know, again, I've gotten rid of pins just because of space. I've gotten rid of pins because they're just not my cup of tea. I've gotten rid of pins. You know, Chelsea needed a new car a little over a year ago. I sold my Metallica remastered for the down payment on her new car. You know, that like that's what it is all kinds of things. New game coming in. I've got limited funds and limited space. So I have no choice other than I've got to get rid of a game. If you really want to know why I'm selling it. Yeah. Or to your point, sometimes a game doesn't call for me. I have very rarely had any modern day games where I wasn't able to appreciate it for a little bit. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I'm like you, man. I like everything. It's just something ends up on the block, like, you know, the whole switching around the drums and everything else. That's just a whole new, you know. You know what's funny, man? It's like when you told me you got those drums, I wasn't completely surprised because I remember about two months previous or prior to that, you were out. And didn't you acquire a bunch of like rock band, guitar hero stuff, used stuff? Oh, yeah. And you're getting ready to start them band. I decided to go buy her a bunch of rock band stuff because she just found Guitar Hero and rock band. So I was like, oh, my God, like, I'll buy you whatever you want. Right to the batting cage with that. Yeah. My my daughter plays Fortnite Festival and it's like they have it's kind of like rock band where you hit the controller buttons when the notes are coming down to kind of score the points like you would. But she's been playing it with controller. So I went out for Christmas this year. I got her the Xbox controller. It's it's the guitar. Yeah. She won't touch it. Oh, I don't know. What? It's like, dude, if you're playing with a controller, you got to use the guitar. You don't use it. When Chelsea and I first got together 20 years ago, that was kind of when Rock Band, like Guitar Hero had been out for just a minute and Rock Band came out. So we had the full set with drums, microphone, everything. So you could play the full band. And, you know, we were in our early 20s and we just played the shit out of that game all weekend long. Yeah, we'd be in our pajamas and just fucking pound away at songs all weekend long. You discover new songs you never would have heard, but you're learning to play it. And then some of the songs that you do know that you're really familiar with, you start appreciating the intricacies based on what skill level you're at. Oh, yeah. I mean, it doesn't compare to playing a real instrument, but it's just if you want to dream, man, it's fun. It's a super I highly recommend if you can. The only bad thing is, is then you start to you play those songs so much now every time, like even still to this day, a particular song will come on and we'll both be like rock band. Like it still just reminds you played that so much and listen to it so repetitively that all you can focus on is it just reminds you of rock band. It's one of the few things I could do with a pretty good buzz where I could still be pretty dialed in. It's like, oh, yeah, because you get it's like you said, you like almost hone in and you fall into it. Yeah, it's like a trance. And then you look away and it looks like the whole earth's moving still because of those notes coming down that narrow hallway. You're like, well, good times. Good times. But yeah, that's kind of my rant. Like I said, nothing against the guy that reached out. Like people do. But I just it's it's an odd thing to me. So like, don't ask you what I don't like you're buying a game. I don't like when you see you list a game and you come to an agreement with somebody on the phone or on Facebook Messenger, you know, after obviously deliberating, going back and forth negotiations. And then they show up and they want to renegotiate the deal. And then the thing that drives me absolutely insane is that when I'll be like, well, you know what? I can appreciate where you're coming from, but that's kind of why we were conversing before you came up here because I didn't want there to be any any type of discrepancy. It's like, well, can you take a hundred bucks off since I had to drive far? So why do I care if you had to drive far? The only time that's acceptable is if you get there in the game is is and I'm not talking about like one or two small things like if the game is off from the description and something is different, then I can find something. Oh, shit. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I did that when I bought my drive to park cheap. Like I drove I drove like five hours up north to get a trailer and everything else And I got there and it it was it was it good Like I love my Jeep but there were some things about it that were just not as described and some stuff looking over it And I literally was like, man, like, you know, this is this and this is this. And it's not major, but it's it's it stands out pretty well, you know, and everything like so I negotiated the price and he understood, you know, so we did negotiate a price. But, you know, again, it was it was very different from what my perceived notion that I completely understand that it's when somebody is trying to just squeeze a little bit extra. Yes. You knew that you were going to drive 400 miles to come pick this up. Yes. So you should have factored that in. Like, don't guilt me into it because I'm sorry. I don't mean to be a terrible person about it, but I'm going to tell you I'm sorry. And you're going to have to drive 400 miles. Oh, you're not going to get a game. Yeah, I don't feel bad for you because you should have negotiated before you drove all like you said, you should have drove. I would rather sell it to somebody closer. Pinball buying and selling is very weird. Like I'm almost like I'm to the point, honestly, with a lot of our customers to where it's like some games I just give Zach and like take like here, trade me for something because, yeah, I just kind of hate dealing with people anymore. And that's what 90, you know, percent of our customers that do the trades use our crate system. Everything else do is because they don't want to go through that shit. Like they don't want to deal with the back and forth. They don't want to deal with tire carriers. They don't want to deal with somebody showing up at their house. Like I said before, I think I talked to her here. Like I literally had a guy one time coming to buy a game, one to look at it and buy it. And he showed up in a fucking car. Oh no. I'm like, go on the roof. How are you going to get that in there? I was like, taking the head off. Yeah. Right. And I kind of get it, you know, preliminarily, I guess like you want to check it out. You don't know if you're going to buy it. But to me, if you show up in a car, you have no intent on buying that game because I, Why would you just not be prepared that you're going to come home with it? Right. If you're interested in it. You'll have people that'll come over and kick the tires and they'll come over for a game. They'll see you have other games and they want to play all those other games and they want to go home and think about it. But it's like none of those other games were for sale. So now I just kind of showcased a little bit of my collection so that you can think about buying this game somewhere else. So you just kind of wasted my time a little bit. It's like if somebody comes out legitimately has a change of heart, I understand. Like, I totally get it. But it's like I had a person that when somebody comes over, man. I want to roll out the red carpet. If it's their first game, hey, listen, let's practice taking the glass off and raise the playfield a couple times. Let me show you how to get the balls out. I think that's very important to do. If somebody would have done that for me the first time, that was great. I hauled an earth shaker out of a basement with the legs on and the head folded down. You know what I mean? Because I had other people that they didn't know anything about Pinball. It's a teaching experience. It is. It is. Yeah. I don't mind it. You know, the only other thing since we're on this, like, well, Greg, there's nothing else going on in Pinball. I mean, Stern's got a game that's going to be coming out here imminently. So we can talk about that a little bit before we wrap up the episode. But I don't mind the vibe of this right now. It's kind of like bitch fest. But like, so another game that I got listed, I had this person that wanted to do a trade. And, you know, I was fine with the trade looking over everything. And I was like, hey, you know what? I would do that. Um, and so like we, we negotiated back and forth, fine, really nothing. Like he was very adamant, like, oh, pictures, here's this, here's this, like kept hitting me up about it and stuff. So we went back and forth for, for days on this. And, you know, what I assumed that, you know, we had agreed on it and he was like, yeah, you know, I can't pick it up this weekend, but I can pick it up, you know, like Monday or something. And I was like, okay, great, perfect. So we're good. He's like, everything's good. And he was like, you know, I'll write you for your address and everything when, when, you know, gets closer to time. I was like, okay, you know, hold the game, no problem, everything, mark the game pending, all that. Literally come Monday and was like, hey, still coming? Or Sunday night, I wrote, didn't get an answer. And then Monday it was like, hey, uh, we still on for this? And then like hours later, it was one of those like, well, I'm just, I'm super busy and don't know if I can make it down this week. I'm like, okay. Like, you know, that's cool, dude. Like, I still like this trade. I thought it was very fair. And the game he had, it wasn't anything super special, but it was a game that I actually wanted. So I kind of got started to get kind of hyped on getting the game. What game was it? And why was it Baywatch? It's not far off from Baywatch as a Batman forever. That's right. That's so bad. Yeah, that's great. And so I was like, yeah, no worries, man. Like I'm an easy guy to work with. So like, you know, when do you think you could make it down? Dead silence. Yeah. Just done. He's trying to get out. Yeah. So I hate that, too, especially when you get that far along, you know, like I understand, like if you're kicking the tires and you don't. But like when you commit to something.
    26:46
    And especially when somebody's being so gracious, like, you know, you've got an issue or a perceived issue that, you know, you can't make it down. You can't do this. You can't do that. Whatever. Like, I get it. But, you know, if I'm willing to work with you, just don't ghost me or just tell me, hey, I'm not interested anymore. I've had the occasional like, where are you, man? You're supposed to be here like 30 minutes ago, an hour ago, two hours ago. Oh, my car broke down. It's like, man, I there must be a bad luck vibe going with me because I've had several cars break down on the way, usually on smaller stuff. If I try to get rid of some stuff on Facebook Marketplace, but it's happened with pinball before. It's like, you know, if you were on the way to my place, I almost want to call him on it. Well, where are you? Because I'm going to drive the game to you right now. Where are you broken down at? The record in all your truck and the game. Yeah. Take a picture roadside. I want to see it because I think I think it's BS. I don't know. Yeah, it's just how I just don't think that there's any need to bullshit like that on anything. Just, you know, tell me if you had a change of heart, like I'm going to think you suck. But, you know, at least you're honest with me and I'm already going to think you suck when you ghost me. I think a lot of people just want to negotiate a deal and then they go into it with good faith. But the thrill of negotiating the deal is now gone and now they're on the hook of fulfilling the agreement and then they back off because the thrill for a lot of people, honestly, is just to see how low that they can get somebody to go. And then when something's agreed upon, they think to themselves, man, I could have gone lower. Exactly. Yep. It's all psychology. Right. And then you go too low where the deal is off and then it's like, oh, well, I'll work on the next one. The whole thing is weird. Yeah, it really is. It really I'd like to pick Zach's brain on that and see where he is with how that works. I mean, it's the same thing, like I said, about asking, you know, why are you getting rid of the game? I think it's just like a weird psychological thing that you just feel that you need to ask that, like, you know, it really is kind of irrelevant. It's a very commonly asked question now that you think about it. Yeah. Well, why are you getting rid of it? Mm hmm. Yeah. This is another really odd thing that and Sterns were a little different, like modern games, like not just Sterns, but modern games in general, were a little different than your your 90s games and stuff. But, you know, it's kind of odd to me that that and I will I will kind of defend this a little bit to an opposite direction. I'll play devil's advocate. But when people ask for a play count and they're so overly concerned about a play count because there's probably 60,000 plays on my lost world. There's probably 60,000 plays on my Jurassic Park, my data east. There was no way knowing that all those games were routed. All those games have spent 30 years and collections and everything else being played all to hell. So like, what's it really matter? It's still a clean example. It is what it is. You know, and I always look at that to always look at the shooter lane. I want to look at the, you know, how much dimpling there is, how much, you know, there is with anything. But, you know, in the reverse, I kind of understand it because because now that there is a lifetime play count on there, that does stand out to people. I think it's better to have 60,000 plays and you don't know there's 60,000 plays or if you've got 5,000 plays and you know there's 5,000. But I mean, if it's between 5,000 well-maintained plays or 500 careless, I didn't take care of this game. There's a big difference. I'd rather have the 5,000 games. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I still think we were talking down to condition. We talked about it in a previous episode where, you know, there's also the belief where after a certain amount of plays that game's broken in and all the gremlins are out of it. And it's just, you said like that, you said that your Stranger Things on location has a ton of plays or had. Yeah. And it played better than any other Stranger Things that people have played because it has that break in period. So, yeah, yeah. So that's what I'm saying. It's still weird to me on the play count thing. I mean, I get it, but that's like mileage on a car. I mean, you could be you could maintain your car with oil changes and service. Yeah, you know, but the thing with a pin, those a little different. I mean, a motor is one big thing. It goes down like, you know, you start pushing 300,000 miles or something on a lot of cars. You know, you're inevitably going to ask for trouble. But with a pin, like I said, I mean, we got pins that have been around for 50 years. Like, you know, you swap out some parts, you rebuild and a lot of them have original parts in them.
    30:55
    It's just yeah, it's kind of different. I mean, I understand the mentality. And again, when you're looking at resale, you're wanting a lower play because it's going to stand out to people on on these modern games. But it still is. If you really think about the core of it, it is a little odd. I that being said, I would ask every single time, especially if it's a modern game. Oh, I do. I don't want to I don't want a 15000 play Stern necessarily. I'd much rather have a play. Right. You would like an H.U.O. is only right. Right. I'm kind of busting balls on that one. But because, you know, you just figure if a game's been routed, it's probably seen its share of neglect, maybe not from the operator or whoever has the game, but maybe just from the general public that's banging the game around. And yeah, but I mean, these are commercial grade machines. They're meant to take a little bit of a beating, I think. And unless there's not any severe cosmetic issues with with decals or glass, you know, and the thing is, too, is when there's so many of a modern game. You don't want the 15,000 play one or the 20,000 play one because like when you get something like an old daddy's Jurassic Park, most of them are going to beat up. So it's kind of rare to find the nice one that's not beat up. So, you know, I understand the mentality behind that, that, too. And, you know, they're not as readily available where you can find a ton of really nice stern Jurassic Parks, you know, so I get it. It's more of a ball busting thing. But again, you know, like what we discussed before, it doesn't it doesn't always matter. It's condition, condition, condition. On my new in-box games back in the past, I used to take the box and clip out the area where it had the tag and serial number. So that was like my certificate of authenticity that it was H-U-O. H-U-O, yeah. It like here we go H I even got part of the box There was a point where people were keeping the boxes because they thought the boxes were going to be worth money or you needed the box to show that the game came in the box I don think that matters as much anymore Yeah I don think so either What I seen you know as long as the game is clean it got low plays I think people look at it and you can go in and check the audits if you wanted to But again, you know, if it's maintained on location, let's just say you've got 500 plays on location, 500 plays at home on there. That's really not any different as long as it was maintained than, you know, 1000 home use only plays. Yeah, it doesn't really make any difference. In other news, we've got Stern Pinball who's officially sent out invitations to both distributors and content creators to get a preview of the next Cornerstone game. It looks like distributors are being welcomed in under NDA on May 19th with content creators coming in on May 20th. So that's exciting. You're still guessing or hoping for Transformers. Is that is that what I'm guessing? That's what I'm hoping for. And I haven't heard anything else more solid than that. Yeah, if you're on our interest list, the rumored title, if it does turn out to be Transformers, that day you do not need to reach out to us. Is that correct, Greg? Like we will reach out to everybody on that list and then we will reach out to everybody on that list and, you know, make sure to confirm your spot and confirm that you want that game. You know, again, if you're looking for an LE and so forth, all that's going to be dependent, obviously, on our allocation and what we get. We typically get very close to the same allocation every time, but it can vary back and forth depending on certain circumstances. So, you know, again, we'll know more once the game is released, but yeah, we'll reach out to you as long as you're on that list. And I would guess, I mean, I know everybody's going to be excited that's on that list that day, so it might be easier instead of reaching out and kind of throttling and bottling up the information highway. Give us a couple hours to get some information out and then we can go from there. Right. Yeah. Still not sure about what timelines look like for production manufacturing. But again, we should have more of that information here in the next two weeks. So I don't know. It's their second release of the year. Pokemon's done really well. We have pros that are now in stock, which is nice. So if you're looking for a Pokemon Pro, you can get it right now. Go to FlippinOutPinball.com, place your order or you can email Ken at FlippinOutPinball.com or Greg at FlippinOutPinball.com. Greg at FlippinOutPinball.com will get an invoice over to you with a secure link for payment. Your game will ship the next day. We ship FedEx freight usually two to four days from the day that the invoice is paid before you're actually playing pinball. So that's pretty cool. If you're looking for premiums, I believe premiums are slated to come middle of the month. So probably another week we'll have premiums in stock. So if you're looking for a premium around the waitlist for premium, those should be fulfilled middle of May. And then, you know, that Stern production calendar is kind of open, which I assume is because they're going to have the next cornerstone on the line. And we'll see what they do with what order they go in. Right. So if it'll be LEs, premiums, pros, people will be. We just never know. We kind of they'll change things up on us. So, you know, we can never say for certain, but that should be how it falls this time. Can we also have some Harry Potter wizards in stock and some arcade additions? We are running very low on those Wizards. Arcades, we have a few, but those are going quick as well. And according to Jersey Jack Pinball, this will most likely be our very last shipment as those will not be in production again until sometime in the fall. And, you know, I know that you and I kind of discussed, you know, to me, that's still even kind of loosely dependent on how well this next game goes. Their build times, production time on this next game, how well it sells if those will even go on the line then, honestly, in my opinion. Yeah, the next game is going to sell well. So I think it's ambitious for them to think that they're going to. I can't speak for them. I'm just thinking unless there's a second line that opens up. I don't know how you'd pull off your your current title off the line to throw additional Harry Potters in. But that, again, I don't know. Maybe they'll have another line going. I agree. I agree. So if you guys are looking for a wizard or a an arcade edition, make sure to jump on that. Not not to kind of create FOMO or say that. But, you know, there is a good possibility that if you don't jump on it sooner rather than later, that you might be waiting longer than you anticipate. I legitimately was speaking with somebody today on the phone who's got a wizard edition on order with another distributor and they were anticipating getting it this month and they didn't fall within the cutoff time. So their deposit is there and they're stuck. Um, not stuck because it's just one of those situations where they were planning on getting a game and now they're waiting into the fall. So I had a customer negotiating a trade and we were off by a little bit and he was like, so-and-so offered me that. And I was like, well, you know, by all means go with them. You know, we're, we're kind of where we are with this was shipping and everything else. And he was like, well, when, when can you get that CE for me? And I'm like, well, we actually have that CE in stock. And he was like, okay. Cause they're not expecting it for like six months. Yeah. Yeah. See, like, but that's what Zach's always good about. Like we try to go in as hard as we can. We take a lot of risks that we can't have this stock so that, you know, there's not a lot of downtime and we're not sold out on games. It is nice to have inventory in that game, especially. So because I'll tell you what, it's going to be dried up maybe going into the holidays. So I never mind having a little bit of inventory on any game because as Jack Winery would say, once you're sold out on a title, you're kind of out of business on that title. So if we have no Harry Potters to sell, guess what? We're out of business on Harry Potter. So we're in business still with Harry Potter. We try to fight for every game we get. Yeah. I talked to Jack a couple of days ago. Real nice talk. Haven't spoken to him in a little bit. So it was good. Good catching up with him. He's excited about the next game, which we're anticipating here in the next month or so. So I think a lot of people are. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be it's going to be wild times and pinball. And these pinball companies are going to be doing battle. We got so much shit dropping out of nowhere, Ken. Like, here we are in this lull, hard to find something to talk about. Nothing's come out really very much but Pokemon and Yukon Yeti. And then, you know, you know, they dropped that that hundredth or whatever for Houdini, the the recab decal. But I mean, I feel like that we're going to have here in a course of maybe like 60 days or less, 30 to 60 days, we could see three or three pins drop maybe, if not four. Wow. So you're going in the site. You're like, like you said, it's the calm before the storm. So now we get out of spring going into summer and everything's rocking. I know. Hold me to that. But most likely three within the next 30 to 60 days. At least three. There could be a four months. Could be a fourth. And also, Ken, you know, for for those of you who have not heard or been living under a rock lately, we have been listing a ton of used games. Zach went up to Ohio, Northern Ohio and picked up a big 40 game collection. Lots of very beautiful, very, very low play games in there. A lot of L.E.s, C.E.s, that sort of thing. We've made it through about half of those games, so we've still probably got about 20 or so to list. So please make sure to check out our Flip N Out Facebook page for all those listings that are going to continue to come over the next week or two. Those games are coming hot and heavy like three or four, it seems like, every single day. And they are going super freaking quick. Like, I am not lying. They are going very quick. So, you know, definitely keep an eye. Be careful about trade. I still want your trade. But again, you know, just truly as a heads up, if it's a game you really want, I understand if you have to trade, but be careful because by the time, you know, we can swap over a trade evaluation, we agree on something, that game could legitimately be gone. That's already happened this weekend. Yeah, it's happened a few times with these and it does. So again, just literally as a heads up, I understand if you have to, if you still want to. But but if it's something you really, really want, I would just go straight to the buy. I have to give Zach and Tim a lot of credit. I don't know how the two of those guys went out there and knocked that all out in two days. No, that was insane. It was insane. I just remember setting up pinball shows like putting 12 or 15 games up, just setting them up, tearing them down. It takes forever. So you're looking at 40 plus games. I have no idea how it's even possible. It's a background. I don't physically know how you're doing it. I tried to break it down time wise and it doesn't even make any sense. Like, yeah, I don't know. It's not good on them. Yeah. Everybody keep it. Keep an eye out on those. Keep watching that Facebook page for all those sweet ass deals. When do you think Spooky reveals their next game, their next title? Is it? Is it I've been telling people Q4 because I think that's what they've done in the past, right? They've held pretty solid to that. Because I still get people that's like, well, what's the next spooky game? When are they going to reveal? It's like, man, we're in May. So I would guess somewhere between October and December there'd be some type of confirmation teaser or, you know, they get excited, too. And they might just be like, hey, this is what we're working on. And I'll assume that we'll know a little more in the coming months, weeks, months on that just because of filming. I'm shooting the featurette promo video. That's a good time. Last time I was going to that. I'm excited. I want to go back to Galena. I was gonna say you think we end up at that 510 Federal Building with the haunted Mrs. McConnell painting? Kind of scared to stay there again. That was creepy man. I love the town. I still want to go back. I want to go in the town instead of drive through the town. Yes, I do too. I wouldn't mind spending just a night down there cruising. We need to go down. We'll have some bourbon this time. I mean, it was not, but we need to start off like early if we can. Well, early for, that's hard because of filming. But if we can get there decently, we need to go down to like one of the local pubs or something and have a couple of drinks there. Then come back and do cigars and bourbon around patio fire or something like we did last time. But start off maybe there so we get a little bit of the town. I would love that. Yeah, me too. I've lived in Illinois pretty much my whole life and I've never been to Galena other than last summer. So yeah, so good. I still want to take Chelsea up there. Listen, everybody, we appreciate it. Thanks for listening to the podcast. If you get a chance, a small ask, it's not going to cost you anything. If you can go over to YouTube.com and search in the box, Flippin Out Pinball Podcast. We're trying to grow that channel to over a thousand followers. It just helps with the algorithm as we get ready to put some some video podcasts up. That'll be fun. And if you haven't already done so over at Facebook, jump into the Facebook page and give us a like. Greg, we're like seventeen hundred likes, I think, on Facebook right now. It wasn't very long ago where we were trying to grow that channel to a thousand and seventeen hundred. So we couldn't do without everybody. We appreciate all the help and support. I don't want to be like I don't want to be the social media guys like, hey, like and follow for the share. Just you know what? We just think it's cool and it helps. So and not in the way that we're making money on it, but in the way that more people are going to see our posts and be exposed exposed to our our podcast, which is a mix between pinball hidden behind conspiracy theory.
    43:22
    We're getting you. Slow Newsweek, but we made it interesting. It's going to be interesting Newsweek here. Oh, you know what? One last thing. We'll have our first impression podcast up the day of launch at Stern. And if anything transpires between now and then, we'll be back to discuss it. But for Greg Bone, I am Ken Cromwell. Don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.