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Ep 11 - Mark Seiden

Jersey Jack Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·37m 12s·analyzed·Oct 22, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.039

TL;DR

Mark Seiden joins Jersey Jack Pinball as newest designer after successful homebrew/streaming career.

Summary

Ken Cromwell interviews Mark Seiden, Jersey Jack Pinball's newest designer hire, discussing his transition from Boston-area homebrewer and Twitch streamer to professional pinball designer. Seiden details his custom Metroid homebrew machine build process, his collection of 14 games (including JJP titles Wizard of Oz and Dialed In), and how Eric Menier recruited him in early October 2021. The episode also covers JJP operational updates: opening a second production line for Willy Wonka with Joe Katz's latest code and Wi-Fi/Scorebit integration, and promoting the upcoming Chicago Pinball Expo with designer appearances.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack opened a second production line; Willy Wonka currently running on line 2 while Guns N' Roses Not in This Lifetime is primary focus on line 1

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell, JJP Podcast host (official company representative)

  • New Willy Wonka units ship with latest Joe Katz code update, built-in Wi-Fi dongle, and Scorebit platform compatibility including achievements

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell, JJP official announcement

  • Mark Seiden accepted JJP designer offer before Steve Ritchie was publicly announced as hiring

    high confidence · Mark Seiden direct statement in interview

  • Seiden owns 14 pinball machines (sold 2 before relocating from Boston); includes 2 JJP titles (Wizard of Oz, Dialed In) and custom Metroid homebrew

    high confidence · Mark Seiden, specific enumeration during 60-second recall challenge

  • Seiden purchased Wizard of Oz approximately 1 year after release at ~$6,600 NIB from arcade in Pelham, New Hampshire

    high confidence · Mark Seiden recounting purchase history

  • Metroid homebrew build started after Pintastic New England homebrew panel; took 1 year of planning before construction began

    high confidence · Mark Seiden describing design timeline

  • Seiden used depopulated Data East Jurassic Park playfield as basis for Metroid whitewood; incorporated wire harness and some mechanical parts

    high confidence · Mark Seiden detailing parts sourcing and initial build

  • Metroid is on third iteration; Seiden estimates a fourth version may be needed despite uncertainty about total completion timeline

    high confidence · Mark Seiden discussing design iterations

  • Seiden used Fusion 360 CAD (free hobbyist version) to design Metroid v2 and v3, modeling mechanics to 3D scale with calipers measurement

    high confidence · Mark Seiden describing CAD workflow

Notable Quotes

  • “I started streaming first because I wanted to try it out. And then I was doing that while I was starting the homebrew. So why not start streaming the build of the homebrew?”

    Mark Seiden @ ~10:00 — Explains how streaming and homebrew machine building became intertwined; documents design iteration publicly with community feedback

  • “Eric messaged me on Facebook and said, hey, do you want to talk pinball? And I was like, yes, I want to talk pinball.”

    Mark Seiden @ ~52:00 — Key moment in recruitment narrative; shows informal outreach process from established designer to homebrew community

  • “I don't think it was until I sat at my desk for the first time that it hit me. I kept thinking like oh this isn't real. This isn't real up until then.”

    Mark Seiden @ ~63:00 — Personal moment reflecting psychological transition from hobbyist to professional pinball designer

  • “It's a weird combination of super excited and completely terrified.”

    Mark Seiden @ ~60:00 — Describes emotional state night before first day; highlights magnitude of career transition

  • “I know how to design a game but can you make it buildable?”

    Mark Seiden @ ~70:00 — Highlights critical transition from homebrew design freedom to manufacturing-constrained commercial production reality

  • “Those games are also going out with Guns and Roses not in this lifetime... Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory coming off the line now will have the most recent code updates including Joe Katz's revisited version.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~2:00 — Official factory status update; confirms code update availability and production coordination

  • “Chicagoland Pinball Expo... we'll have a huge booth... 12, 15 different games. On Friday night, we've got a night hosted by Jersey Jack Guarneri in the seminar room with Pat Lawler, Eric Menier, Steve Ritchie, and the new addition, Mark Seiden.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~4:00 — Announces Seiden's public debut at major industry event alongside legendary designers; signals industry acceptance

Entities

Mark SeidenpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyEric MenierpersonKen CromwellpersonPat LawlerpersonSteve RitchiepersonJoe Katz

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball opened second production line to increase output; Willy Wonka limited run on line 2 while GNR remains primary focus on line 1

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'we opened a second line and the second line is going to have willy wonka and the chocolate factory running on it... Guns and Roses not in this lifetime is on line one and that's our primary focus making as many of those as possible'

  • ?

    event_signal: Chicago Pinball Expo (Oct 28-30, 2021) featuring JJP showcase with Seiden's public designer debut alongside Lawler, Menier, and Ritchie in Friday seminar

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'On Friday night, we've got a night hosted by Jersey Jack Guarneri in the seminar room, so you'll be able to sit down with Jack. You'll also be able to hear from the pinball designers here, Pat Lawler, Eric Menier, Steve Ritchie, and the new addition, Mark Seiden.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Homebrew pinball community actively supported Seiden's Metroid build through panel mentorship, stream chat feedback, and collaborative problem-solving

    high · Seiden: 'They help each other out. Tells you when your ideas are not quite right... Everybody has been super helpful' and 'people would like in the chat would be like, hey, you should do that instead'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Mark Seiden's homebrew design process involved public streaming, community feedback integration, scaled graph paper reference grid, iterative whitewood testing, and CAD 3D modeling - represents modern hybrid analog/digital design workflow

    high · Seiden detailed streaming workflow, graph paper scale grid construction, Fusion 360 3D CAD modeling with mechanical measurement/replication, and iterative playfield holes filling/adjustment

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.112

0:00
Hey, what's going on Pinball Land? Welcome to another episode of the Jersey Jack Pinball Podcast. My name is Ken Cromwell and I'm your host.
0:10
Earlier this month we added another designer to the talented design team at Jersey Jack Pinball. His name is Mark Seiden. I sat down and had a conversation about him coming aboard and I'm going to share that with you in a few minutes. But first, I wanted to go over a couple things as to what's going on here at Jersey Jack. so in some interesting factory news jersey jack pinball we opened a second line and the second line is going to have willy wonka and the chocolate factory running on it in fact it's on the line right now and those games are also going out with guns and roses not in this lifetime guns and roses not in this lifetime is on line one and that's our primary focus making as many of those as possible but as we scale up and we have line number two running we're doing a very small limited run of those willy wonka so if you're looking for one reach out to your distributor today and see if they have any available for you. So the Willy Wonkas that are coming off of the line now, they will have the most recent code updates, which includes Joe Katz, who's the programmer here, his most recent version, revisited version of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, if you will. Also, you've got online capabilities. So it's going to come with the Wi-Fi dongle already installed. You can get that game online wirelessly. You can plug a hard line into that if you want to go Cat5 and just run internet directly to it. Advantages to that, obviously, you've got wireless seamless code updates, which is very, very nice. But also, you've got the ability to implement the new Scorebit platform, including the achievements. Now, we're going to invite Scorebit in here in the next episode to talk a little bit more about achievements, the new platform, what it does, how it changes gaming, really how it makes pinball better. But for now, just know that you're going to have the most recent code update. You're also going to have wireless or internet connectivity just right out of the box.
1:46

  • Eric Menier (Guns N' Roses designer) initiated JJP recruitment via Facebook message; Seiden accepted offer approximately 1 month after initial contact, prior to relocation in August 2021

    high confidence · Mark Seiden and Ken Cromwell interview exchange

  • “There's only been so many [pinball designers throughout history]. Not that many.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~58:00 — Contextualizes rarity and prestige of pinball designer positions; frames Seiden's hire as historically significant

  • “I glued a piece of graph paper down on essentially like to scale and color coded... one inch, a half inch, a quarter inch. So I could go back and watch the replay of the stream and say, where was the ball going that time?”

    Mark Seiden @ ~28:00 — Documents innovative design methodology combining streaming, analog reference grid, and replay analysis for iterative playfield design

  • “The first version was all manual. I didn't know how to use a CNC machine at the time... But the first version was just drills, Forstner bits, whatever, jigsaw.”

    Mark Seiden @ ~32:00 — Shows bootstrapped, hands-on approach to first homebrew iteration; contrasts with later CAD/CNC workflow

    • person
    Guns N' Roses Not in This Lifetimegame
    Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factorygame
    Metroid (homebrew)game
    Chicagoland Pinball Expoevent
    Scorebitproduct
    Wizard of Ozgame
    Dialed Ingame
    No Good Gophersgame
    Pintastic New Englandevent
    Fusion 360product
    Data East Jurassic Parkgame
    Mission Pinballproduct
    P-ROCproduct
    Pinball Wizards Arcadeorganization
    Elk Grove Village, Illinoislocation
    New England Pinball Leagueorganization
    ?

    event_signal: Chicago Expo positioning as major JJP brand showcase with 12-15 games, women's tournament participation, and six free-play machines demonstrating confidence in product lineup and community reach

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'Come visit us. Jersey Jack, we'll have a huge booth there... 12, 15 different games... We're bringing six games into the free play area... you'll be able to play 10 GNRs'

  • ?

    community_signal: Eric Menier served as Seiden's primary recruiter and mentorship contact, suggesting intentional knowledge transfer from established JJP designer to new hire

    high · Seiden: 'Eric messaged me on Facebook... Eric reaches out. He's like, let's talk some pinball... Eric took me around' and Ken noting 'Eric is kind of the, he's your point of contact'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Mark Seiden hired as JJP game designer in October 2021, transitioning from homebrew/streaming community to major commercial manufacturer

    high · Direct interview with Seiden; confirmed by Ken Cromwell as official announcement on JJP Podcast; recruitment via Eric Menier's Facebook message

  • ?

    announcement: New Willy Wonka units shipping with latest Joe Katz code update, built-in Wi-Fi dongle, and Scorebit platform integration including achievements system

    high · Ken Cromwell factory announcement: latest code update, Wi-Fi dongle pre-installed, Scorebit platform with achievements capability

  • ?

    product_concern: Transition from homebrew to commercial design reveals manufacturability constraint gap; Seiden acknowledged need to learn how to make designs 'buildable' rather than just designable

    medium · Seiden final quote: 'I know how to design a game but can you make it buildable?' and 'they've been trying to drill into my head how to manufacture a game'

  • ?

    product_strategy: JJP strategic focus on Guns N' Roses production with secondary limited Willy Wonka run indicates careful capacity management and product prioritization

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'Guns and Roses not in this lifetime is on line one and that's our primary focus making as many of those as possible but as we scale up and we have line number two running we're doing a very small limited run of those willy wonka'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Scorebit platform adoption announced for new JJP production machines; represents technology upgrade for leaderboards and community engagement

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'we're going to invite Scorebit in here in the next episode to talk a little bit more about achievements, the new platform, what it does, how it changes gaming, really how it makes pinball better'

    • Pinball shows are in full swing. In fact, Chicagoland Pinball Expo is taking place at the end of this month in October, the 28th, the 29th, and the 30th. That's Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Come visit us. Jersey Jack, we'll have a huge booth there, actually. We're bringing over, I think, 12, 15 different games. We've got one that's going to be in the women's tournament. We're bringing six games into the free play area, so you'll be able to play the entire catalog there. And then in our booth, you'll be able to play 10 GNRs, including a CE, and we'll also have a couple of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factories with the new 2.0 version installed. So come say hello. Meet some of the staff there. On Friday night, we've got a night hosted by Jersey Jack Guarneri in the seminar room, so you'll be able to sit down with Jack. You'll also be able to hear from the pinball designers here, Pat Lawler, Eric Menier, Steve Ritchie, and the new addition, Mark Seiden. Mark just came aboard, like I said earlier on in the episode, in early October. In fact, before we go into anything else, let's just get into the conversation that I had with Mark just a couple days ago.
    2:43
    Joining us on the Jersey Jack Pinball Podcast, Jersey Jack Pinball's newest addition to the design team, Mark Seiden. What's going on, Mark? How are you? Hey, I'm doing good. Good. Happy to be here. Yeah, we're happy you're here too. Thanks for taking the time today. Tell us a little bit about yourself, Mark. Yeah. Well, I moved out here from the Boston area. I'm heavily involved with like the pinball community out there for a while now. I played in New England Pinball League, helped out with Pentastic, been streaming on Twitch for many, many years under the R arcade. That's five R's. Yes, yes. A lot of that streaming that I've been doing on there was building a custom pinball machine. I want to get into the custom build in a little bit. Yep. Because I think a lot of people recognize the name. They know you and your personality, especially coming kind of from the homebrew side of pinball. That fascinates me, especially the game that you had designed, the game that is flipping, the theme that you chose. You mentioned that you were streaming on Twitch. Yep. Why? What's going on? Why would you do that? I've done streaming, so I know what it takes. And it's, you know, by no means was I ever the best streamer in the world. But, I mean, it's a commitment. And it can be a pretty elaborate setup. What was your commitment to streaming? Yeah, it was – so I normally stream, like, at least two days a week. Yeah, I have a bunch of games. So I just wanted to – I don't know. I just wanted to try it out, and it stuck, you know. It's just, like, hanging out with everybody, just chatting. For sure. It was super casual, my stream. I'm not the best pinball player of all time. Did you have a pretty big following before you got into streaming? I mean, was streaming something that you started before you got into your homebrew game? Yes. Or was it something that, okay. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I started streaming first because I wanted to try it out. And then I was doing that while I was starting the homebrew. So why not start streaming the build of the homebrew? It just sort of led into that. So I've streamed it since the first drill holes all the way up to the latest version. So let's get into your homebrew. First of all, walk the listener through what is a homebrew machine? What is the homebrew community? What exactly does that mean when you hear the term homebrew? So homebrew is any custom game. It could be a retheme. um there's basically you have an independent controller system you have a computer running software usually people use mission pinball people using p-rock tend uh sometimes use another thing called skeleton game but um it's basically an independent pinball control system that you can hook up a bunch of switches to a target so whatnot a bunch of mechs too and then you can control them and put them in any position you want. So making your own layout, making your own games, making your own rules. Right, right. Yeah, and there's a great community behind in Homebrew. Everybody there is so, so helpful. They help each other out. Tells you when your ideas are not quite right and things like that. Yeah, right, right. Making sure you know what you're doing in the code and help. Everybody has been super helpful. like i i could not have gotten this far without um their help and many things you have a built-in support system yeah exactly which is amazing yeah yeah so if anyone wants to get started like people will help you like um even if you just know a little bit they'll help you get to where you where you need to be so at some point you get into pinball and you you own machines you said you had a collection what's in your collection uh we had 16 before i moved out we sold off two wow okay Yeah. There's 14 games. Yeah, yeah. You can give me a general range of years if it's easier. Yeah. No, I can list them all off. Let's have some fun here. You said you have 14 games. Yeah. And I've owned a ton of games in the past. And even when I've had like five or six games, it's hard for me to remember exactly what's in the lineup. You've got 14 games, and you're pretty confident you can remember them all. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. All right. So this is what we're going to do. I'm going to start this clock at 60 seconds. We're going to give you 60 seconds to see if you can name all 14. Yep. All right. The clock starts now. I have a Junkyard, which I converted all the music over to Weird Al. I have a Doctor Who. I have a Monster Bash. I have a Wizard of Oz. I have a Dialed In. I have a No Good Gophers, a Revenge from Mars, a Black Rose, Elvira's House of Horrors, a Medieval Madness, my custom Metroid. um there's a houdini um stern pirates and wild godly wildlife wow all right so you did that in 31 seconds which was pretty impressive uh i did notice a couple jersey jack titles in there we had wizard of oz and dialed in yep so talk a little bit about what what brought you into jersey jack style uh so um our first game was uh doctor who uh yeah and of course you can't I always have one.
    7:50
    Isn't that funny? Yeah, I know. You get that first game, and it's like, oh, this is pretty cool. I have a pinball machine. But then inevitably, it's like, wait a second. We could have more pinball machines. Right. What else is out there? Yeah. So then we got our Nugo Gophers. Yeah. And then. And a Pat Lawler title. Yeah.
    8:05
    Who is now your colleague here at Jersey Jack? It's a favorite of mine. Right. Then we were up at an arcade that no longer exists in Pelham, New Hampshire, called the Pinball Wizards Arcade. Yeah. Nice. They had like 70 or 80 games. They had a Wizard of Oz there. It was one of the early ones. Right. And we went up there. We saw it. We were blown away. And that was our first new in box. We bought it. Really? Wizard of Oz? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's such an innovative game, especially at the time. It's interesting that you went right in and new in box on that game. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, beautiful game, fun to play. Do you remember how much you paid for a Wizard of Oz back then? It was $6,500 probably. No, I think the price had gone up a little by then. Okay, I got you. Because it was about a year after it started shipping. Okay, so $6,600. Yeah. Right. That was the start of... It just snowballed from there. Exactly. And dialed in, played it, loved it. Dialed in, pal-waller. Yeah, yeah. It's always a super popular game on league night. Yeah I just really like that game too You also mentioned your homebrew game which is Metroid And I want to talk a little bit about that I guess what makes you go from being a collector an enthusiast somebody that streaming on Twitch somebody that's doing some competitive pinball into saying that, you know what, I think I want to build a game? Yeah. How does that work? So it was a panel at Pintastic New England, a homebrew panel. I attended because I had always kind of wanted to do it. It was something that was in the back of my head, but I knew how much work it was going. Did you know how much work? I thought I knew how much work it was going to be. Right. And it turned out it was a lot more than that. Okay, fair enough. But I knew it was going to be a lot of work. I wasn't kidding myself. So, yeah, so just getting information from them, just hearing what they did got my brain working. Did you go into that panel thinking that I'm going to use this as something that's going to be a stepping stone for me to start a game? Yes. Okay, so it wasn't you just were in a panel, and then after the panel you're like, you know what? What the heck? I'll make a pinball machine. No, no. I had already been thinking about it, and I was just – they kick-started me basically. That's great. They kind of kick-started me because it took me a year before I actually started.
    10:28
    So the next Pintastic – In the grand scheme of things, I don't even think that a year is terribly long. I mean, you're going from conceptualizing what you want to do with a game and then actually starting it. It seems fair. I mean, there's a tremendous amount of research, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah. Most of that time was like, what do I use for controller boards? What parts do I need? How do I wire it? Things like that, like just getting my brain ready to actually start it. Now, where was the homework community at that time when you decided that you were going to get in? Was it something that you were already following as a scene? Were there games that you had seen within the community that inspired you at that point? I had known people who had started it locally. They were the people on the panel. Right. But I hadn't really seen their games. I just knew that they existed. I may have seen some pictures on Pinside or something. Yeah. So a year later, they had in the marketplace a bunch of, like, ratty old play fields, like, half populated. obviously not well stored very dirty um and i managed to pick up a data east jurassic park a lot of rust on it not many parts but enough and took i took that home took it apart my brother was helping me at the time take it apart and he looked at the what was left of the dinosaur mac on it yeah right and said oh you you should make a metroid game that thing could be crazed and could eat the ball and like it's like well i i could oh wow yeah that's how that got yeah yeah and that's amazing and uh i didn't obviously use that mech because half of it was missing and i wouldn't want to buy the parts and it was huge and take up most of the play field but um yeah that's that's how that that theme came about i mean were you a fan of metroid yes okay so there had to be some reason oh yeah it was a good idea it was a good idea for me like because Super Metroid is one of my favorite games of all time. Super Metroid. Yeah, that's what most of the game rules are based around. Had you ever played the original NES 8-bit? Yeah, yeah. I played that. That's what I grew up on. Yeah, I like that one too. I like Super Metroid a lot more. So you're taking apart this Jurassic Park Data East play field. You're depopulating it. Are you looking to kind of repurpose some of these parts? Are you just kind of getting an idea of how everything comes together? What was the reasoning behind getting the play field that had parts on it and then taking it apart? It was a little bit of both, just sort of – it had a full wire harness. That's a bonus. There I have all my colored wires. Right, right, right. Because it's hard to find those combinations of stripes sometimes. Interesting. Yeah. And the reason I'm bringing this up is because I think, again, somebody that has the motivation and they want to get into something like this, I kind of want to pick your brain a little bit and maybe open up some different ideas to somebody that might want to start designing pinball. And I'm just trying to wrap my head around what your approach was. And it's interesting that the wire harness was something that maybe a lot of people don't consider, but that was something that you figured was going to be valuable to take off that play field to be able to use in your game. Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of wire in a pinball machine. Yeah, right. Exactly. So that probably was paid back the entire $100 right there. They paid for it. I did use some of the parts on it, but they were kind of ratty. um i used the targets on it for a while um but they weren't very good and they weren't they would like bounce around and trigger too many times because they were so old sure um but they were good enough for the initial whitewood i also used that to and you say whitewood and again i'm trying to take this approach to maybe somebody that isn't as familiar with some of these terms in your opinion or or with your expertise can you kind of define what whitewood means what is a whitewood Whitewood is a pinball machine without any art, possibly without any inserts, just something you can drill into and move things around. Like a blank canvas play field, so to speak. Yeah, my first Whitewood was just a couple of flippers and the wooden sidebars. I would just flip it for an hour, just in an empty play field. How cool is that, though? Yeah, I know, exactly. I was like, I did this. And that's a huge thing, I think, when you're building a game to get that kind of bottom third operating, having flippers that are powered and then being able to start designing. When you're getting into designing, for instance, the Whitewood for Metroid, were you thinking that you needed to populate the play field in real time to kind of get an idea of shots and trajectories? Or was it something that you had drawn and sketched first and then you were trying to replicate on the Whitewood? Yeah. I had some ideas, which I would put down and see how they worked. And you put those down on paper, or were you drawing in some type of a CAD program at that time? I would just scribble them and then, like, all right. Like your cocktail napkin. Yeah, exactly. Convolve machine. I was like, all right, we're going to fire up the stream and see what we can do with this type of thing. Oh, interesting. Okay, so were you bringing it in your streaming community to kind of go over some ideas? Yeah, I mean, literally, like, the entire – well, not the entire build, but almost the entire build was done. That's exciting. Yeah.
    15:38
    And people would like in the chat would be like, hey, you should do that instead or like things like that. So you had a built in kind of focus group to kind of get this machine going. And then if it was messed up, nobody had anybody to blame except themselves. You told me to do this or you suggested I should say because the designer has ultimate control. Another thing I did is instead of just having the play field blank, I glued a piece of graph paper down on essentially like to scale. and like color coded, like one inch, a half inch, a quarter inch. I got you. So I could go back and watch the replay of the stream and say like, where was the ball going that time? How did it do that? Interesting. And like, I could pinpoint exactly where on the play field that was, write it down and then next stream, like let's play around over here. So you had, you had a point of reference. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So when you were approaching your design, was it something, Were you designing, for instance, a shot at a time? Were you focusing on off the right flipper? I need the ball to go here. And then were you kind of perfecting that before you moved on? Or was it just kind of an overall flipping, getting an idea of flow? What's the approach? The first one was very rough. It was sort of like, yeah, I would move stuff. It didn't work, but it was sort of like, all right, that kind of works. We can put that there for now and we'll fix it in the next version. and then like, all right, I'll put this here, see how this works. So the problem is if you cut a hole in your play field for a scoop and it doesn't work. Yeah, right. I had to move some stuff like that and you have to find a way to fill in the play field. I used like – Ever use dowel rods? Oh, yeah, yeah, I did. There was a target that I had to move like back like two inches and something like that. It was like – I found the big holes. I could get away with filling it with foam core and electrical taping over it. Oh, okay. That makes sense. It was good enough. I mean, it didn't have to be perfect. It's just first version, you know. Are you cutting most of this manually or using some type of like CNC type machine? The first one was all manual. I didn't know how to use a CNC machine at the time. Sure. That was something that I learned for the second version. But the first version was just drills, Forstner bits, whatever, you know, jigsaw. Yeah, right. It's like there'd be streams where like, I'm going to cut a hole here. And it's like, that's crazy. Just do you still have that first iteration, that first whitewood with the electrical tape? I have it at home right now. It has a giant beer stain on it because you probably shouldn't put a beer on a papered lay field. Right. Especially when you're working on something and go with an elbow. It's never good when you're spilling beer. Yeah. So the beer stain came a running joke on the screen. Like I think people want me to put a beer stain on every game That could be your calling a beer stain There a couple guys here that would be happy to a beer over any of your games exactly yeah for some stains um all right so how many iterations of metroid did you have before you got something that you thought was ready to kind of i'm on the third one right now and i've still won another one okay i think the next one could be done this one i mean i could call it done some of the changes i don't quite like i don't i don't know if there'll ever be a time when i like i'm feel like i'm totally satisfied but you gotta say now now now it's done yeah the first version was uh was uh pretty manual let's see what we can do and have some fun uh the second one i joined a local makerspace and learned how to use their cnc machine i taught myself how to use cad so i modeled everything pretty much well not everything but enough to know everything would fit, what holes needed to be drilled where. What were you using for CAD software? I was using Fusion 360. Okay. If you're a hobbyist, you can use it for free, and it's pretty professional. You can do almost anything you want with it.
    19:40
    So you're designing Fusion 360 in 2D? I was doing 3D. 3D? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, modeling everything. I get a mech. I pull a mech from the game. measure everything with the calipers, like draw it out and then, um, throw it into the main playfield model and make sure it fits. And if it didn't, you move stuff. Just somebody that doesn't, I don't come from an engineering background and to be able to take something with calipers and replicate it. Do you find that to be therapeutic or is that, uh, time consuming for you? I mean, it is time consuming, but I really enjoy doing it. Like, Really? It's like, I don't know. It's weird. It's just something I like to do. Well, it makes sense. I mean, it's something that I admire, and it takes a lot of patience, but it takes precision. Yeah, yeah. I mean, a couple of the early models that I have, the holes, I didn't put them in quite the right spot. So when it drilled the dimples on the back to the markings where I'm supposed to drill it, it was a little bit off. Right. But yeah, the later ones were pretty, pretty spot on once I got better at it. From a designer standpoint, in your personal opinion, because just from designers that I've spoken to over the years, there are some that prefer to design in 2D. There are some that prefer to have that three dimensional element when they're designing. In your opinion, is there one that's better than the other? And if so, why? I don't think one's better than the other. I mean, do what works for you. I mean, if you want to lay out your layout in 2D first, then you should do that. So on October 4th, it was Monday of 2021, you walked through this door for the first time as an employee, as a designer at Jersey Jack Pinball.
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    I'm trying to get an idea, like, what led up to that? How did that situation present itself? And it's funny because I literally had this similar conversation with Steve Ritchie very recently. How were you approached? How did you go from your homebrew game to being offered an opportunity to come work in the industry? So Eric messaged me on Facebook and said, hey, do you want to talk pinball? And that's Eric Minier, game designer here of Pirates of the Caribbean. Just recently, Guns N' Roses, not in this lifetime. Yep. And I was like, yes, I want to talk pinball.
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    Did you know why he was calling initially? Did you have any inkling? I mean, is he just reaching out? I don't know any other reason he would reach out to me. Had he ever reached out to you before? No. Okay.
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    So we had a nice chat, and at the end he's like, so are you any interest in anything here? And I said, yeah, I want to be a designer. Oh, just like that? Yeah, yeah. And you were pretty assertive about it. Yeah, yeah. I've been saying this on stream, like any time anybody asks me, it's like, you should work for a pinball company. He's like, yes, I should work for a pinball company. Outstanding. At that point, I was like, really, this is, I really love doing. Right, right. It's like, if I could do this, that's what I want to do. So Eric reaches out. He's like, let's talk some pinball. Yeah. We had a good chat. He's like, all right, talk to some people here. I'll get back to you.
    22:50
    Some time went by, maybe a month. That had to be a long 30 days. Yeah, yeah. It was a long 30 days. But it's like, you know what? Maybe that didn't go well, but at least it's out there. Yeah, exactly. Sure. Yeah. I didn't even – I mean, not like you list that on your job site. That's what you're hiring for. So it's – maybe it's just testing the waters. And when he reached out, that was prior to announcing Steve Ritchie coming here? It was. Okay. In fact, I accepted the offer before you announced Steve. Really? Yeah. Really. So that was a shock to me. It wasn't a situation where Eric's like, hey, you want to maybe talk about working in pinball? Yeah. And you're waiting a month, and then we announce Steve Ritchie, and you're like, oh, well, maybe that's not going to work out. You had this all wrapped up prior to Steve being announced here. Yeah, yeah. But you had a relocation too, right? Yeah, that's why it was so far out is because I had to move and figure out stuff. And for those of you that are listening, Jersey Jack Pinball, we were once located in New Jersey, but last year in 2020, we relocated the company to Elk Grove Village, Illinois, which is just outside Chicago, and it's home of pinball. So Mark's coming from the East Coast and accepts the offer. You've got to relocate here. And how long did that take for you to figure out a place to live? Well, we flew out in August for a week, and there were four houses that could hold 14 pinball machines. And fortunately, we got one of them. Isn't it funny that, like, you're choosing your house, and your babies are your 14 games, right? You've got to make sure. And let's go through those games again, Mark. Okay. uh so yeah we got we got a we got a year lease might extend it but just figure out the area because you can't figure that out in a week yeah yeah yeah so um so i remember at one point you had come in now that we're talking about this because i met you prior to you coming in for their first official day of work so to speak and you were like yeah my name's mark i'm here to meet some of my colleagues you got a tour i think your wife came in yep eric toured you through the facility yep that was that week at that point was it starting to sink in that or was it right away that you just kind of knew where was there any kind of a period where you were kind of in transition and a little bit just trying to figure out what's happening i mean it's a it's a big life change right you're relocating you're changing career you're starting a new path when did it finally hit you that hey i'm gonna be rocking pinball here with my pinball design um i don't think it was until i sat at my desk for the first time okay like okay i kept thinking like oh this isn't real. This isn't real up until then. Like, um, but yeah, when I, when I sat down at my desk and I sort of said like, yeah, uh, there you go. Well, all right, so let's, let's, let's go back. And this gets me excited. And just, just the smile on your face too. It speaks a million words. I wish that we were, uh, you know, maybe airing this with video, but so the first official day, October 4th, Monday, you walk through the door. What about the night before? How'd you sleep that night not well really yeah yeah yeah i was uh basically a weird combination of super excited and completely terrified yeah it's something that not many people get a chance to do it's an excellent point i mean when you think about the size of the industry and the employees at the major pinball companies even throughout history uh there are not a lot of people in you know comparison of the population uh that are pinball designers or on a design team Yeah, even all of pinball history. There's only been so many. I don't know how many, but not that many. Yeah, agreed. Some of those guys that have been here all through history are still working, which is amazing too. So you're sleeping. You're trying to get some sleep, maybe tossing and turning. You wake up the next morning.
    26:30
    You're ready to go to Jersey Jack pinball. Yep. Any pregame jitters that day, or are you just kind of like, let's just get this over with? No, it's just sort of like take a deep breath. Yeah. Let's go in. You walk through the front door. You are taken to your office. I mean, after going through HR, yeah. After that, Eric took me around. I got to see all the new things that they wouldn't let me see on the original tour. Absolutely.
    26:55
    And hung out with Eric and Joe, Joe Katz. For a bit. Software engineer. Yeah. And then they said, here, here's your office. We'll come see you in a few minutes or half hours up. Yeah, just get settled in. So Eric is kind of the, he's your point of contact. He reached out to you. He greets you at the door on a couple different occasions, gets you settled in. Had you met Pat Lawler, head of game design here, had you met him in the past at any point? No. First time was interviews. Second time was, hey, I'm here now. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, you're somebody that you know pinball past, you know designers, you know games. Was it a surreal moment sitting down having Pat Lawler, the creator of all these great games, kind of picking your brain and see if you'd be a good fit here? Very surreal, yeah. I think he liked me because he hired me. Yeah, that's good. That's good. He Lord Lawler they called him back in the day So look I not going to ask you what game you working on here yet for obvious reasons yeah industry protocol or standard is to not reveal a game until it ready to uh you know be revealed so i not going to ask you that but what have you been doing as of late what's kind of the welcome to jersey jack situation you're in are you designing on your computer what's what's going on with that sort of like pinball boot camp like um yeah yeah i've been working on the line um i've been working on the line yeah interesting yeah so uh they've been trying to uh drill into my head how to how you can manufacture a game i know how to design a game but can can you make a buildable type of thing yeah um so spending a lot of time in the factory when i'm not doing that i'm transitioning my fusion 360 knowledge over to solidworks okay which is another cat which is another cad software which we use here and learning the other design tools we have here um basically trying to figure out what everybody does and how they do it and it seems like you're in a pretty unique situation with eric being one of the younger up-and-coming designers who's i think has established himself with his last two games especially then you've got pat lawler and steve ritchie that are in the same building which i still think is wild that those two guys with the amount of games that they've individually created and have sold over the years to have those guys in the same building is amazing but i mean you've got who some consider the hottest young designer in the industry and you're and and you're working you're being mentored by two of the biggest if not the two biggest legendary designers in pinball yeah i mean it's a pretty good situation oh yeah this is i still can't believe it's real like they are determined to make sure that i am thrown into a sink and swim situation i'm not i'm going to swim and i'm going to swim competitively um so um they are you had the eye of the tiger when you just said that mark got a little bit of chills that way i like that yeah i've been working with steve a bunch he's been passing off all his pinball knowledge as much as he can um isn't steve like it's it's great having him here yeah every conversation i have with him yeah i actually met steve before yeah he had played my game uh really fantastic uh 2019 what advice did he give you after playing your game um he said he didn't hate it and that's great yeah and he said it was too dark so um one of the when i first got here one of the first things i said to him was uh yeah uh so i fixed that darkness problem on the play field i added 90 more lights to it oh wow yeah that's good yeah right so throw some hot rails in there yeah i i put like um hot bars like there They're facing down over the play field. Oh, yeah. Good. Yeah. So, I mean, it's a unique situation. It sounds like you're ready to take off. Yeah. I'm anxious to start building things. Right. Yeah. Right. What does next week look like for you? Are you more comfortable than you were when you came in? I am way more comfortable than I was on the first day. Yeah, yeah.
    30:53
    So seeing how everything's built, way more comfortable using the SOLIDWORKS CAD software, get along with everybody. Everybody here is great. So, Mark, when we see your first game here at Jersey Jack Pinball, is there anything that we should expect from you in a design philosophy? I always like to use three pop bumpers, or I always like to have a kickback. Is there anything that you're strong about or opinionated about to have in a design, or is it still kind of open canvas for you? Yeah, I don't think I've – I don't know if I have a style that's sort of congealed yet. Sure. But I like inline drops. I like captive balls. I like spinners. I love spinners. Yeah. And I like games that are a little different.
    31:43
    So Metroid, my design philosophy on that was it's a game on an alien planet. So when you shoot it, it should feel like an alien pinball. It should feel like something different. And also there should be a lot of bouncing around safely to simulate a platform game, jumping from wall to wall. Ah, okay, with Metroid. Yeah. Right. That makes a lot of sense because in Metroid you literally are bouncing off walls. So I have a slingshot pointing sort of up the play field that you can shoot the ball onto. It falls onto it and shoots it up into something else type of thing. Cool. Yeah. Perfect. So that's the type of thing that fits the theme. a different theme, I might take another path. You might not want that. You might want a little more flow. That's an interesting question, too, now that you bring it up. You're talking about designing around a theme. Do you feel that there's an advantage to having a theme first before going into a playfield layout? Yes, definitely.
    32:47
    There's certain things that you just kind of pop in your head like, oh, that game needs that. You have to work around that and design around that type of thing. And we can always think of some generic shots like that could be any theme, but it's got, it's got to feel like that game, like that, that theme to me. Mark, is there, is there any advice that you would want to give to anybody? Let's say that's wants to get into the pinball industry. What can they do? Uh, you should build your game. If you, if that's what you want to do, um, you should hook up with another home brewer. If you want to do coding, um, you just, you need a physical resume like um ah that's interesting yeah you can't physical resume i've not heard that before you can't just you can't there's so few companies it's sort of like you didn't do this before unless you did it on your own essentially yeah good point so um if you're looking for a job in the industry you just start doing it uh helps to be public about it too if they know you're doing it you recommend taking uh a game that you're building to pinball shows oh yeah that's too yes definitely Once you're building it, show it off.
    33:53
    Take people's advice and fix things. If it's good advice, just do it. It's basically just build your game. Chicago Land Pinball Expo is coming up the end of this month in October. Are we going to see Mark Seiden there? Are we going to see Metroid or any combination of the two? Yes, you're going to see both. Ah, nice. So Metroid is going to be in the Homebrew area. There's going to be tons of games there. Rob was saying like 20, which is a lot.
    34:23
    And I will have a panel. That's like a physical interview room right there. Exactly. Everyone's got their days. Sure. I'll be on a panel with other homebrewers Thursday at 4 p.m., I believe. I'll be around the show. You will also be on the Jersey Jack and Pimble panel Friday night, so check that out on the schedule. It's a night hosted by Jersey Jack Winner and company founder. You'll be up there with Pat Lawler, Eric Vigneur, and Steve Ritchie. Yep. So that'll be kind of fun. That'd be cool. So you're trending all over the place, Mark. Yep. Welcome to Jersey Jack. Thank you.
    34:56
    And that's going to do it for this episode of the Jersey Jack Pinball Podcast. Now, hey, you might be asking yourself, how can I get myself into pinball? Mark explained his experience. He gave you some advice. But you can also send us a resume at resumes at jerseyjackpinball.com. Send the resume over. We'll have somebody reach out to you. Let us know how you can fit in on the team because the team is growing and it is a talented group of people. Hey, you know what? if you're looking for some Jersey Jack merch or maybe some accessory add-ons, maybe you're looking for that Guns N' Roses banner or that Guns N' Roses not-in-this-lifetime topper, go ahead and stop over at pinballwizard.com today and check out what we have in store for you. And if you're looking to connect with me and the podcast, you can go ahead and reach out to podcast at jerseyjackpinball.com. Stop by, say hello, let me know what's going on. I'm happy to take any suggestions, comments, or observations you have. All right, and before I let you go, I want to let you know my intention is to get another episode out here relatively quickly. That is to invite the guys in from score a bit to sit down with them and JT Harkey, who is a software engineer here over at Jersey Jack pinball and really kind of give you a better idea as to what the score bit system and achievement platform offers and how it makes pinball better. Guys, I'm telling you right now, if you've not gotten your pinball machines online with Jersey Jack pinball, okay, there's no reason not to do so at this point. You're going to want to do this because what we're offering now is pretty substantial. It's absolutely free. no expensive hardware upgrades or costs no monthly fees no subscriptions for jersey jack pinball owners everything is free for you and what we're about to roll out coming soon is going to blow your mind because it's it's something that i'm super excited about but right now it's unbelievable so take that into consideration get your pinball machine online if you don't know how to do it i encourage you to visit our youtube channel at jersey jack pinball we've got some some videos there that'll help you get your machines online and of course you can always contact us directly if you wanted to do that at our support page at jerseyjackpinball.com. Drop us a line, and we'll be happy to get your games online. Hey, and if you'd like to come in and say hello, again, we're all going to be at Chicagoland Pinball Expo at the end of the month. That's in Schaumburg at the Renaissance. Come on in. You can get a day pass, a weekend pass. Come say hello. Stop by the Jersey Jack Pinball booth. Let's sit down and talk some pinball, maybe have a beverage or two. All right, again, thanks for tuning in, and until next time, don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.
    37:09
    you