Hey, hey, mama said the way you move gonna make you sweat, gonna make you groove. It's time for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Teels. You can find everything on Pinball Profile, all your subscriptions, past episodes and more. We're on Twitter. We're on Instagram, at Pinball Profile. And you can email us, pinballprofile at gmail.com. Great to be talking to our next guest. So many things to talk about. I mean, we could go off on a tangent about his commentary in the Stern Heads Up Pinball Invitational. We could talk about his incredible Zoom singing. Or maybe ask him some questions about the New York City Pinball Championship, which he's a part of. Or maybe we could talk about the brand new Stern Pinball game, Led Zeppelin. Joining us right now, he's the guy behind the code. Timmy Page Sexton joins us. A lot of people didn't know that was your middle name. I didn't even know that either. So thank you very much, Jeff, teaching me something new every day. Buddy, you've made my dream theme. I'm aware, Jeff. I heard your story about your rock and roll history. You're obviously a radio guy. It's your background. You wanted to say old, didn't you? You so wanted to say old. I listen to radio, and I'm not that old. I mean, everyone's listened to Led Zeppelin, right? It's the songs you hear everywhere. It's tons of great songs from their catalog on the radio. You just hear them walking around shopping. I'm licensed in a lot of Marvel movies and stuff. It's kind of everywhere. Everyone has Led Zeppelin in their life. I don't think it's just a thing that a couple people share. It's kind of like the universal music, I think. This isn't me blowing sunshine up your arse. My first ever radio program I did in college, I went by the on-air name of Red Zeppelin. and the show is called Whole Lotta Rock. So this goes back, that's almost 30 years ago. My God, I am old. Okay, you can say it, Tim. Yeah, you're not old, Jeff. I won't say it. I'm excited for you for this game, working once again with Steve Ritchie. And you just mentioned, you knew Led Zeppelin. Everyone kind of hears Led Zeppelin. And growing up in New York State, I would have to assume once or twice visiting Rock Fantasy with Stephen Keillor, Zeppelin might've been playing. Once, twice, three times, four times. What was more amazing was once I started working on the title, you know, this was back before COVID, just going out to get a sandwich. You're like, oh, someone's up a plague in this store. And then you go buy a shirt for your mom or something for Mother's Day. And, oh, there's Led Zeppelin playing in this store. It is really everywhere. This music is everywhere. And it's great music. I'm glad you enjoy it. And that makes me feel good as a fan. And you've got somebody who's passionate about it. I know, Steve, this is one he wanted. Probably, I could imagine, a few of the designers said, yeah, I'll put my hands up. I think Borg's a big fan as well, too. I think everyone, if they had the opportunity, would have done this. Steve told me he's been to two Led Zeppelin live shows back in the 70s in California, and I'm jealous. I didn't have the opportunity to go see Led Zeppelin live. I've tried my best to recreate that live experience in a pinball machine, and I think Steve and I wanted to go for that with this game. And I think we did a pretty good job with the lights and sound effects and everything. It's going to be a really cool experience. Well, let's break it down. That's good that Steve has seen the band a couple of times live. So knowing Steve very well, like you do, and from what we've heard, he has this thing when it comes to his games. Even though he's not doing the code, he's usually insistent, I want this in the game. What was the thing on Led Zeppelin? He said, I want this in Led Zeppelin. I'm trying to think. We were both, it wasn't like a fight. We both agreed definitely on what we wanted. I think the thing that we really wanted to do just from the get-go and that he insisted on and I kind of worked with him on it was we wanted to have a new type of lighting system that was totally in sync with the music. And this idea started as, you know, way back in 2019. We were talking about just tracking kind of like the 12 notes on a scale, maybe add 13 to have an octave. and he's like, I want them as bright as possible. And we tried these super bright white lights and I was just saying, I would like them RGB and we tried it with color after that. And then finally we realized how many RGB lights we could support on the spike system. And we went to these on the premium in LE. You can see in the videos, the expression lighting in the side and the blades and the cabinet for this game. And we've got awesome light shows in time with the music and everything. And it's exactly what Steve insisted on. So he was just, from the get-go, he's like, I just want the lights to go in time with the music. I want, you know, the John Bonham drum solo, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. You know, I want that, everything to blink in time with that. And with the guitars, with Jimmy Page's solos, I want, you know, up and down on the lights. So I wasn't opposed to it. I thought it was a great idea. So that's what he insisted on. So this expression lighting system, there are 10 different songs in Led Zeppelin's pinball machine, and they're all unique to each song. Yeah, and they do effects on top of that too, just based on pinball gameplay events. So you've got your background, your 10 songs will play, and it's the full length songs as well. And they have custom live shows for the entire song that play in the background. And a lot of that programming and electrical engineering was done by the great guys we have at Stern here to get it all working. It's kind of a new system to do something in that way, but it really works well in the Spike system, and I'm happy about that. You mentioned full songs. Now, looking at the song list, I'll just quickly go over this. Good Times, Bad Times, Communication Breakdown, Whole Lotta Love, Immigrant Song, Cashmere, Black Dog, Ramble On, Rock and Roll, Trampled Underfoot, and the song remains the same. So you said full songs. Cashmere looks to be the longest song on there, so maybe the harder mode to do, whereas something like immigrant song and communication breakdown are shorter songs. Does that mean they're easier to complete? Oh, we're going to get into the song mode rules. This is all new stuff, Jeff. I don't think this has really been done quite this way in pinball before, and I'm excited to talk about it. You ready for some rules? Please, please, please. Okay, so here we go. So you've played music pinball machines before where you pick your song, maybe at the beginning of the game, maybe by shooting a scoop, and that lights your shot arrows. and this game, we always have a song mode running, but I'm going to add some layers on top of this that make it more interesting and what I think is more fun, and it really brings you in with the music. So at the beginning of the game, you get to pick your song. Let's say you pick a short song like Communication Breakdown. You get some arrows, but as you start playing, the song's going to continue, it's going to continue playing. When you get to a new section of the song, like you get to a verse, we actually cue in a new set of shot lights, So every verse has the same set of shot arrows. Every chorus has the same set of shot arrows in a song. So actually, you're actually creating more kind of modes in that song, and there's new sets of rules in that song. So each of the 10 modes has several songs in it. What it winds up doing, actually, whether you're an expert player or, you know, a new player to pinball, you're always going to have something to shoot, and the expert player is going to want to maximize their scoring by shooting more arrows. If you can hit a lot of song arrows in your chorus, you're going to get more points in the choruses of your next songs. And if you can hit a lot of shot arrows in your verses, you're going to get more points in the verses of all your songs. And if you hit a lot of song arrows in communication breakdown, that builds your communication breakdown points, yada, yada, yada. Also, the song's only so long, so each mode is actually scaled to the length of the song with this mechanic we call earning records. And I've been working with Raymond and Dean Grover on this and dialing this in just right for the feeling that you're going to get through the song, play all 10 songs, get to the wizard mode, get to the mini wizard mode, etc. All the actions you do while you're playing the game earn you record sales. And this goes on in the background. And when you hit a milestone of sales, like 100,000, you earn a gold record. And we track your progress in a song that if you hit five gold records in a song, it's marked completed. But if you hit 10 gold records in a song, now you've gone platinum, and that completes the song for the ultimate wizard mode. And this gives you sort of a rock before bash kind of situation where you could go all the way through your 10 songs and really crush them every single time. Or you can get through five or six or seven gold records and then try to make up some of those extra sales in the mini wizard mode, which is top of the charts multiball. So that's stuff on the back end. what's really cool about the song modes, though, just when you're playing them, because you have that system where the verses, the choruses, the different solos and stuff all give you new shot arrows, you always have something to shoot. So when you're just playing the game, just in the general flow of it, you're flipping and you're just going to be hitting song arrows all the time, getting more score. It should just be fun and really easy to pick up. And then on the back end, we want to make it hard to master for the expert players and give the players ways to come up with interesting strategies Also so when you get to the end of communication breakdown it doesn start over You go to the next song in the set list because we wanted to keep it like a concert where the music keeps going Now, you can disable that, but the preferred way that we have to play in factory settings is your set list will just continue. So you'll go Communication Breakdown. Next, you'll go A Lot of Love. Next, you'll go Immigrant Song. You'll keep playing these songs like a concert, and you'll keep these streaks alive of all your song scoring. So on a ball throughout a game, you can get a couple songs done. You can start building your shots up a lot. You can use your multi balls to keep your modes going. It should just kind of feel like you're always in the music and always in the game. And that foot never really leaves off the gas pedal. You're just kind of always in that concert from when you hit the start button to when you're at game over. It's always difficult to kind of picture this before playing it. But I think you've really laid out how these album sales work and the song modes. Can I make a comparison? If I think of Star Trek, you know, you get the medals, you get bronze, silver, gold. So obviously you want to achieve gold for higher progress. We've heard Keith Elwin talk about trophies on Avengers. Is it kind of like that comparison where here's what you need to achieve it, but you can do a lot better by adding to it? Yeah, I think that's a fair comparison because I think sometimes just shooting something for a score is great. People like doing that, but they want to know that they're making progress towards something. Games today have these really deep wizard modes and these complex rules, and you kind of simplify it by just saying, wait, you get 10 gold records, that's a platinum record. Okay, that's something I get. That's what I'm working for. I understand that. What happens when I get all platinum records in every song? I guess I'll have to do that and find out. I see the four symbols representing each of the band members, Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones, and John Bonham on there, and there are four different ways to light those. There's the lead set of stand-ups, there's the Zep drop targets, there's the stand-ups on the right-hand side, and then the ball saver to light Jimmy Page's symbol. When you do that, then you light Icarus, which is the famous figure of the fallen angel from the swan song labels of the later Led Zeppelin albums, There's that toy. It pops up, and that's your play field multiplier. So is that a timed thing? Is that exclusive to that ball? Is it something you can build on to make it 2x, 3x, and so on? This is another all-new pinball thing. I'm trying to make a lot of stuff that's simple on the surface and then has a lot of levels to it for every player can understand. So the first level is just, hey, when you complete the rock target bank, you light the symbol associated with Robert Plant, the feather in the circle. The Zep target bank goes to John Bottom's symbol. The lead target bank goes to John Paul Jones' symbol. And then the ball save target bank on the left goes to Jimmy Page's symbol. And there's feedback in the game. When you hit any of those targets, it blinks a little bit to show you. This is the one you just shot. When you light all four of those symbols, so they get the whole band together, you have to get all of them, you can hit that Icarus target, and that starts the Icarus X multiplier feature. The Icarus X feature isn't just a 2X or 3X multiplier. There's actually a little more complexity to it. You'll get a playfield multiplier, and this could be anywhere from 1.0X, which is nothing, that's the same, all the way up. And these multiplier values are actually those four target bank multipliers multiplied together. It's kind of nuts, but so for each combo you make, you build up the potential to build a multiplier. So let's say I shoot the center ramp, and then I shoot the right ramp, and then I finish the combo into the ZEP target. So I've now boosted the John Paul Jones multiplier value up to 1.2x. But it's not available yet until I complete all four target banks. And then I hit the Icarus target, and I can't do the math as fast as the game can, but you multiply all those values together. So if it's 1.2 times 1.7 times 1.3 times 2.4, if I plug that in the calculator, Hold on a second. So was there any thought of, instead of Icarus, putting an Abacus on there? No, not really. I'm glad the software figures that out for you, but basically what you're saying is comboing into these completions is much more beneficial. Right, and I don't want to scare you with the complexity of this over a podcast. I promise it makes a million times more sense that you play the game. Hey, let me just say, I haven't been scared by one thing you've said. By the way, you haven't even used the words action button yet. I'm fine. This is true. So I just want to say the result is you could get a fractional multiplier. It could be 6.2x playfield multiplier. It could be 3.1x playfield multiplier. It could be 28.2x if you really hold it off and do all these combos and avoid shooting that Icarus target for a really long time and hold that value over. But it's going to be tough to do. It's going to require an expert player. You know, we'll dial it in based on what we see. If people go too nuts with it, I don't think there's any tournaments going on anytime soon. So I'm sure that by the time tournaments are back, we'll have possibly some multiplier capping in there. But I'm not too worried about it. I just want to have a really fun way to start a fresh kind of multiplier that isn't just 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x, etc. I wanted to just get something a little bit zanier in there, like a 1.1x multiplier. And how long does that multiplier last for? You build up the time by shooting either on the pro, the hermit target, or the hotshot ramp on the premium and LE, and that adds plus two seconds right now to the base time. So when you start the Icarus X multiplier, it's whatever you've built up that time or two, usually around 20 seconds. Nice to do right before a multiball. Exactly. Yeah, that's why. So I think for expert players, there's two pieces of strategy to it. One is shooting more combos to build up your multiplier before you start it, and then actually holding off starting it until a time when you really need it. Haven't seen it so far on the videos. I'm sure we're going to see more when we see the Facebook live stream on Stern Pinball this Friday, 6 p.m. Central. What kind of animations are we going to see? What kind of footage do you have? The only one I've seen was the Zeppelin multiball, but in the video I saw kind of some concert footage. I don't know if that's in it or not. Yeah, we do actually have some concert footage that we were able to use from some of the 70s Led Zeppelin live performances. So we have videos of live footage of the band from the 70s, and we actually use that in all of the song background videos. So as the song's playing, you get a song background video, and you'll see live footage compiled together from different shows from Led Zeppelin in all 10 of those songs. Sweet. Looks like there are a few multiballs. Tell us what we've got. Yeah, so your main multiball right off the bat, your really easiest one, traditional multiball, is Zeppelin multiball. And that's where that big Zeppelin sculpt is on the playfield. To qualify that one right now, we've actually made it a little bit easier on factory settings. It's just three shots up that ramp, up the Zeppelin ramp. Gives you Zeppelin 1, 2, 3. Bam, you're in multiball, three-ball multiball. and you can use the Icarus target as an add-a-ball. So hit it four times, that gives you an add-a-ball. That's true in all the multiballs. Subsequent Zeppelin multiballs, you light that by spelling the ROK target bank, and then that lights the Icarus lights again. That lights your subsequent Zeppelin multiballs. So once you're back in single-ball play, shoot the ROK targets, that lights Zeppelin 1, 2, 3, shoot the Zeppelin ramp, back into Zeppelin multiball. That's your traditional multiball of the game. All the shots are lit, shoot them all, and then shoot your target banks for lighting the super jackpot on the hermit target or the side ramp, the hotshot ramp on the premium and LE. So our next multiball that's available on the pro as well as the premium and LE is tour multiball. There's actually four variations of tour multiball, and this one's a little more involved to start. First thing you want to do is you want to shoot the right ramp to progress to your tour. Once you've made enough shots and it's one right off the bat, the left eject is lit to select your tour mode. You can choose which tour you want to go on. We have four of them in the game. UK Tour 1971, USA 1975, Earl's Court, and USA 1977. These are all based on actual Led Zeppelin tours, and we have their tour posters in there to represent which ones you go on. So each of starting any of these modes will give you a set of objectives. So say you pick the UK Tour 1971, you're going to have to hit spinners. Once you hit enough spinners, you earn a tour lock, and you can see those inserts in the middle of the playfield. So the first tour mode you pick, you just have one tour lock. Once you complete that, shoot the left eject, and that starts tour multiball. Now the rules of the multiball are actually slightly different for each of the tour multiballs. I'm not going to get into them, but your tour jackpot value carries over for every subsequent tour multiball. So the order you play these actually matters because your jackpot value is going to carry over. So if you want to start with one to build up the jackpots, you play one that a little harder to get jackpots later they might be higher value but it might be harder to earn you have to weigh that risk and reward when you play your next tour multiball so you can only pick between the three remaining modes let say I pick USA 1975 Now I have two objectives. I can't remember off the top of my head what they are, but maybe it's shooting the orbits and shooting the ramps or something like that. What you're doing is requiring people to shoot all the shots. I like that. Yeah, and this is layered on top of the song mode. So you can pick one if you know you're playing a song that has a lot of orbit shots, and you pick a mode that says shoot the orbits, you know, you're getting double credit for those. So there's tons of combinations to layer on top of there as you play the game. I think it'll give it a lot of replay value as people explore the rule set and explore ways they want to play. So your second tour mode, whichever one you pick, now you have two tour locks. Now you start tour multiball. It's a three-ball tour multiball. Now you do the same thing again. You pick one of the last two modes. Now you've got three objectives, and it gets harder. And the third objectives and the fourth objectives are harder than the first and second objectives. So you have to make sure you're not leaving yourself with something really tough to do. But then you get a four-ball multiball. Then you get a five-ball multiball. And then you complete even more stuff. You'll get to world tour multiball. That's a six-ball multiball, and that's the tour progression there. So a lot of those modes you can play on top of your song modes. You can progress those objectives during a different multiball. So if you want to chain your multiballs together, that's a good way to do it right now. However, none of the multiballs stack on top of each other. So you can't play Zeppelin multiball and tour multiball. You have to play one at a time. Otherwise, it would be too crazy. So it kind of works. So you keep the song modes going the whole time. You always have that going. You're never out of a song mode. So that's why we didn't want to just stack any multiballs on top of each other. But you do have the different modes that you can kind of start with the tours that give you more variety of shots. As a Zepp fan, got to tell you, I love that Earl's Quartz in there. Now, that is a legendary show that, for those that don't know, it was 1975. There were three shows that sold out in four hours. They added two extra shows, and it is regarded as maybe the best Zeppelin ever was in 1975, following their physical graffiti album. So their first six albums were on that tour. And sadly, shortly after that, Robert Plant was in a serious car accident, so it kind of shut Zeppelin down for a little bit. So you can see some of that footage on the famous Led Zeppelin DVD that came out, I don't know, almost 20 years ago. And I'm excited to see it on this pinball machine. So thank you for putting that on. Yeah, no problem. I mean, we wanted to highlight all the best of Led Zeppelin's tours. They had a ton of tours. It was a lot of them. But really, the ones that stood out were that story with the Earl's Court shows where they had to add two extra. And keep in mind, this is before the Internet. So selling out in four hours required, you know, phones ringing off the hook and people going up in person to buy those tickets, a huge line. It wasn't like things today where you're like, oh, sold out in four hours. That's no big deal. No, that's a huge deal. That's a massively popular show. Tim, the first time I saw a Robert Planton concert, May 10th, 1988, Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto, I remember sleeping overnight at Centennial Hall in London just to wake up and get the tickets first thing in the morning, and I wasn't alone. There were several of us sleeping in sleeping bags and lawn chairs and really just waiting to see Robert Plant because that was the first time he was going to sing Led Zeppelin songs since the demise of Led Zeppelin in 1980. So there was some excitement there, just as there is for this pinball machine. And I got to tell you, there's some neat differences, as you've mentioned, between the Pro, the Premium and the LE. But the Premium and LE can't help but notice that electric magic toy. Explain that. Yeah, and so that's one of the main multiballs for the Premium in LE. And this is a pretty cool toy. It's sort of like a raising bash toy that you actually shoot through. I don't think this has ever really been done in pinball. I could be wrong about that. It could be something close, but it's a pretty cool device the way it is. It's got all sorts of stuff. So on the Premium in LE, when you spell Ledzep, and you get that classic Ledzep display effect coming up on the screen to show you your progress with all the letters, that raises the electric magic and there's an optical spinner on it and if you've played the beatles you know how well that optical spinner spins on the beatles you know you don't have that extra friction from shooting a regular mechanical switch spinner so it just keeps spinning and you hit it and it makes a cool noise and charges up that magnet in the bottom and then you can't even see it but you shoot it when it's all charged up it's blinking like crazy lit up in green and the magnet comes on, grabs the ball. There's a backstop in the back that'll block it just to make sure the magnet can grab it. It actually brings it down onto the playfield. And I added this cool effect, too, where the audio, actually, I put in a low-pass filter as the ball goes down into the playfield, so it sounds kind of like, oh, you're going backstage for a little bit. Oh, nice. Then the multiball starts. I kick a ball out into play. That ball has totally disappeared from the playfield. And, you know, shooting any of those lock inserts, that'll raise it back up and the ball will be on the magnet. Just sitting there, you bash it off the magnet, bam, big light show, start electric magic multiball, get a big hurry up value. And it's a cool effect. I can re-grab it in the multiball. I can toss it off. I can do all sorts of stuff with it. You know, we keep working with this thing and we keep adding more and more effects too. So, you know, by the time the LEs are out to everyone, it should have a ton of really cool features. I like it because the way that magnet kind of grabs it and then brings it down into the playfield. I don't think that kind of effect has ever really happened, like just to go below the playfield. That's pretty cool to me. I mean, it's not like a subway where you just shoot in, right? It's like a slow, just back down into the playfield. I like it. There's a lot of inserts on that electric magic. I see multiball, frenzy, and rock out. Oh yeah, the frenzy mode's great too, because like I said, that OptoSpinner spins so long. So once you build that up, you get a chance to shoot it just for like tons of points. That's a fun one. I've been working on that a lot just the past few days here before we're doing this interview, and every day it's getting more fun, so happy about that. I've heard Keith mention, and he dropped your name, and he was talking about when this game is in tournaments. You guys are kind of putting in certain code there, so, oh, I don't know, certain people like Josh Sharpe can't turn off ball save when you're in multiball? Please tell me that's in this. Oh, of course, yeah. Yeah. Well, I do some, so I did this on Black Knight and Keith was so happy that I did it. Instead of making the multiball ball saver and not the game ball saver, this isn't, it's like sometimes I understand you want to start the game, you want no ball saver, and operators want this too. I can't take it away from the operators. When you start a multiball, you've earned that ball saver and, you know, you got to get the balls out into play from the trough. So I just put a minimum of 10 seconds on there just to make sure the player at least has a chance to get the balls in play so they don't just hit each other and go out with a cheap train. I just want everyone to get a chance to make some shots in multiball. But then Keith saw that I did it on Black Knight and he's like, oh, that's amazing. And he wanted to add it to all his games. So he had his programmer, Rick Nagel, add it to, I think, Avengers and Jurassic Park as well. And I've added it here too. I actually have to, when the electric magic comes up, you're in a multiball the whole time. So until you get that ball off the magnet, your ball saver is going to be running that time. And that's just to make sure that every player has a chance to shoot the ball off the magnet when it comes back up. So there's always kind of a don't care so much about if the IFPA wants to mess me up, they can't. I have to prevent that from happening. I take the game work and make it fun, of course. I don't know what you know on this side of it, but was this a difficult license to get? I mean, this has been my dream theme forever, and I just assumed it was unattainable. Well, we have a great team at Sturridge. I mean, we have a great reputation as a company. I think that helps. I don't actually know the details of how difficult this was to get. I'm kind of glad I don't because I just get to work on it, and that's fun for me. I don't have to do all the work of getting that. But, yeah, there's never been a Led Zeppelin pinball machine before. I'm sure people have wanted it. People have talked about wanting it for a really, really long time. and with how positive the reception's been and how much I wanted to work on it personally. I'm a huge fan of Led Zeppelin. I think they're one of the greatest rock bands ever. And I think a lot of people agree with me on that from what I see. So yeah, of course people wanted it. So I have no idea how difficult it was, but I got to thank Jody Dankberg for actually getting it done. He's our director of licensing here and that all comes down to him. Yes, kudos to Jody for sure. There's one other insert on the play field and it's a question mark around the zeppelin right in between the flippers right above shoot again a mystery multiball is that for another day that's yes that's for another day that's absolutely to be discovered by the players actually that's probably not going to be revealed on any sort of stream we do because you have to earn that one like i said you want to see what happens i'll just say you want to see what happens when you get platinum records in every single song okay So lead sound on this game, Bob Bob Baffy. I don't know much about Bob. Yeah, so Bob has worked with us before. He's actually done some pretty clever stuff on the software side of the game as well as the audio, which is why I wanted to work with him on this project. If you ever used the Kiss Topper you know that awesome one with all the lights on it you notice that it perfectly synced up with the songs that are playing And that actually because of some clever code that Bob Baffy and Tanya Clayson and Lonnie Rott put together for that game And because we wanted to do a lot of synchronization stuff on this game, you know, with talking about actually marking where the choruses and verses are in the songs, that's the audio engineer going in there. And he's going through the actual, you know, beat one, two, three, four. Sometimes in Black Dog, you're talking about 5-8 measures and 5-4 measures, and he's charting that out, so we have all that synchronization. We could cue you in right on the beat, the lights could blink on the beat, we have all sorts of stuff we could control with actual audio data, or based on the audio data, in this game, that just overall leads to a nice enhanced effects experience. It's not really so much for the rules, but it brings the overall effect of the game up, I think, another level, when you have that synchronization, because that's what a concert's like. It feels like it's totally in sync with the music. You did mention the word topper. I don't know where we are in the design of that. We haven't seen it so far as far as production pictures, although CERN has been pretty quick lately as far as getting them out. We all know about the long delay of Star Wars, and that's all a licensing issue, how long it took for that to come out. But in recent games, the topper's coming out pretty quick. So can I imagine that we're probably close for a Led Zeppelin topper in the next few months, weeks? The topper should be right around the corner. We've had some time to work on it. You'll see it. It's got really cool moving spotlights. They're actually super bright. They move around. They light up your ceiling and wall and everything, depending on where you aim them, just so they fit in your house. They've got a Zeppelin on there with a backlit Led Zeppelin logo. The four band member symbols are lit in the front, too, and they kind of match the playfield rules there, give you an enhanced effect on that so everyone can see when you have the multiplier running. And, yeah, that actual, the way they're controlled by servo motors, two independent servo motors, so they could do all sorts of shows back and forth. When I first got the mock-up of the topper, I just had them going across my ceiling, and I'm like, oh, this looks pretty cool. Just seeing the lights up there, it feels like, you know, having those big spotlights outside of the arena before a concert. Three unique art packages with this, and it's funny, online, today, Tuesday, I have seen different opinions from so many different people. And there's not one standard. That's the one. People are liking all three different. And it's a tough decision. I mean, I guess it's what you want in the gameplay and everything else. But tell us about the art packages. You know, I think what you get when you picture Led Zeppelin, you picture those album covers. They're so iconic, especially that Led Zeppelin one with the Hindenburg, black and white. That's like the most iconic image that everyone worldwide knows, and Led Zeppelin used it. And then they just have their great kind of timeless album covers. We incorporated a lot of that stuff. Well, actually, Stephen Jensen, project artist, he was the one who incorporated all that stuff really well into the art package. just in a really cool way that's kind of different than a lot of pinball packages, just a way to represent an album cover wrapped around an entire pinball machine. I think he did a great job integrating that, and it does stand out amazingly, just in a lineup. If we can ever get locations back again, I don't think you'll be able to miss that it's a Led Zeppelin pinball machine with any of these art packages. It's pretty clear, iconic Led Zeppelin stuff. I think they look great. I think the play field looks great, too. It's got a ton of color, super vibrant, plus the RGB lights on the premium and LED really light that up. It looks great. I like that you can see on a lot of the inserts on the plastics, the different album covers. That's very special. I think that's great. People are going to want to know, and I don't know if you can answer this or not, where are we going to come out with code? How close is it going to be to 1.0? And are there things like co-op mode or mini wizard modes that you can put in these games? Are those down the road? Where are we with this kind of stuff? Oh, man, this is my least favorite question of all the questions. I just want to get a lot. We're going to be, I cannot tell you at this moment right now, Jeff, what the code number is going to be. I can tell you we're still missing a few things we have planned. I started this game before actually Dwight released co-op mode with Turtles. Once I saw how big of a hit it was with Turtles, I was like, wow, I need to do that. But I need to get the game done and then go back and add the co-op mode in. So that might be a little later. I wish I had known how awesome of an idea Dwight had at the very beginning, but sadly that wasn't how it worked. But we do plan on having a release with co-op mode later, and I think it's going to work out well with, you know, you could have up to four players playing through the set list, and it'll actually share the music progress. Right now, when you play a four-player game, each player chooses their own song, but what we want to do with co-op mode is actually have the concert continue between the four players, so you can get all the way through the set list. It gives you a chance to earn more records that way and hopefully get all the way to the big mystery insert at the bottom. What does that do? We'll see. So definitely some plans there. I think of another Steve Ritchie music pin in ACDC, and because of the pandemic and the time I've been able to play a game, I finally completed Encore Jackpot. It took a lot of plays to do so. Where would you put the difficulty in completing the Led Zeppelin set list compared to something like Encore Jackpot in ACDC. Jeff, to be honest, I'm still playing around with it. If I force you to play the full length of all the songs, it's over 50 minutes of music. So I could put that time limit in there and force you to play a game for 50 minutes long. I don't know if I'm going to do that. I want to see just what feels right. We've got some great players here too with Keith and Raymond. And sometimes some beta testers could give some great feedback as well. I love that you didn't say Zach, by the way. Go on. Oh, sorry. Yeah, Zach's great, too. I don't know if Zach's going to get a game. He's probably too busy with his team. I've seen his rating on IFPA. He's not that great. Sure, I think he's down to like number six now or something, or maybe even lower. No, that's Keith's number six. I don't know where Zach is. I know where I am. I'm in the basement. Look at my name and then just go below if you want to find Zach. Anyway, you were saying? So once we dial it in, I think we'll find where it is. I don't know what it's going to compare it to with ACDC right now, but there's a little more work needed there, and we have some time where we'll do some more code releases for sure. So we're not at 1.0 yet, but we're pretty close. The last thing I want to bring up to you, Tim, is that what you've done in this game is something that is absolutely essential for Led Zeppelin fans. And a lot of people wonder why Led Zeppelin broke up after John Bonham died in September of 1980. And quite honestly, they said, without any one member of this band, it is not Led Zeppelin. They've done three one-off concerts, a 40th anniversary tribute in 1988 for Atlantic Records. They did a horrible live aid thing that they don't want footage anywhere of because they didn't rehearse. And then they had the classic O2 Arena concert in 2007, in which they played a full set and had Jason Bonham, John's son, on drums. And what a great ending to their career, if you will, with that incredible Celebration Day concert. But the reason they broke up in 1980 is because without one of those members, it just isn't Led Zeppelin. The point is each member is equal. And on this game, you have made each member important on this game. It's not all about Jimmy Page. It's not all about Robert Plant. Everyone is equal on this game. Yeah, honestly, Led Zeppelin have insisted on that, I think throughout in their interviews, yes, it's a four-person band. All four members matter. And we just wanted to keep all four band members equally represented throughout the game. They're all important. They're all needed. They can't do anything without getting all four of them together. And that's the way Led Zeppelin works. That's the way the Led Zeppelin pinball machine has to work. Tim, I'm excited. LE on order. I'm looking forward to it. Jeff, you'll enjoy it. You'll have a great experience. Can't wait to see you get your LE. Hope you can stream it a little bit, show it off. I'll be watching you play, making notes, figure out how I can make it more fun for players at your skill level, make it more fun for players at home. Just love watching people play. Unfortunately, don't get to do it so much in person because of COVID, but some good vaccine news just came here, and I hope we're all playing at some point in 2021. And if not, 2022, we'll all be out there again. I'll get to watch everyone enjoy Led Zeppelin pinball, and I can't wait. Exciting news for sure on the vaccine front, and we will get back to location pinball and tournaments and all that kind of good stuff. Let's just end with a little song because I've seen you do this on Zoom where you had the four different pictures of yourself singing acapella. I thought it was great. So, Tim, on the count of three, a little immigrant song. One, two, three. Money. Absolutely. That's free, by the way. That's an add-on that you can put in the game, but you're welcome. From Tim Sexton, thank you very much. Looking forward to the Led Zeppelin from Stern Pinball. Thanks, Jeff. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. Find us on Instagram and Twitter at pinballprofile. Email us at pinballprofile at gmail.com. I'm Red Zeppelin.