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Episode 3: UK Pinfest aftermath and Scott goes AWOL well to Wales

The Great British Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 38m·analyzed·Sep 9, 2023
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

UK Pinfest recap: games, tournament format, quality concerns, and venue lessons.

Summary

In this Great British Pinball Podcast episode, hosts Scott Rundell and Neil McRae discuss their experiences at UK Pinfest, covering event logistics, specific games played, machine reliability issues, custom restoration standards, tournament format challenges, and venue management observations. Key topics include complaints about machines being pulled from play mid-show, critiques of Spinal Tap and Big Lebowski games, praise for restored classics like Lord of the Rings, and disappointment with tournament flipper quality on Metallica.

Key Claims

  • Scooby-Doo lasted only a couple of hours at Pinfest before needing to be disabled

    high confidence · Scott Rundell directly observed and commented on this prediction coming true

  • Alien by Pinball Brothers was turned off mid-show at owner's request to prevent plays, despite being paid for entry

    high confidence · Scott Rundell clarified this was a misunderstanding—the machine was sold, not down

  • Spinal Tap has significant code synchronization issues with animations and poor video assets that need thorough rebuild

    high confidence · Neil McRae detailed observation of the game at Pinfest

  • Big Lebowski is effectively a 'poor man's Medieval Madness' with very similar rules and gameplay

    medium confidence · Scott Rundell's opinion based on gameplay experience

  • A recent boutique pinball machine Scott purchased had rails hot-glued to the playfield instead of properly secured

    high confidence · Scott Rundell discovered this manufacturing defect upon inspection

  • Metallica at the tournament had significantly weakened flipper power, making it nearly impossible to score well

    high confidence · Neil McRae played the machine and noted flipper performance issues during qualifying

  • Women's tournament at Pinfest had approximately 40 participants

    high confidence · Scott Rundell reported this observation from the show

  • Neil McRae owns Metallica, Godzilla, Bond, and Foo Fighters pinball machines

    high confidence · Neil McRae stated ownership when discussing tournament game selection

Notable Quotes

  • “I don't want to fiddle with games. I want to play them.”

    Scott Rundell @ early in episode — Establishes Scott's philosophy about machines at public shows—they should remain playable throughout

  • “I think if someone brings a machine, I think it should be there for the duration of the show.”

    Neil McRae @ mid-episode — Agreement on policy for machines brought to Pinfest; highlights ongoing debate about seller protections

  • “The rails were hot glued in to the playfield... I'm a little bit like wow.”

    Scott Rundell @ machine discussion section — Quality control concern about boutique manufacturer manufacturing standards

  • “It's a missed opportunity... it needs a real thorough rebuild of the code.”

    Neil McRae @ Spinal Tap discussion — Critique of Spinal Tap's unfinished state and potential for improvement with proper development

  • “The Flippers had come out of a 300-year sleep would be an understatement.”

    Neil McRae @ tournament discussion — Colorful description of Metallica's flipper weakness problem during competition

  • “I just think what they've done is let's just slap all this together and it should be funny. They haven't, right?”

    Neil McRae @ Spinal Tap analysis — Critique that Spinal Tap's video assets and gameplay don't capture the film's humor

  • “Mandalorian behind me, that was a must buy for me, I just love the TV show they could have literally put a turd in a box and shipped it to me and I would have been happy”

    Scott Rundell @ theme discussion — Demonstrates how strong IP attachment drives purchase decisions independent of game quality

  • “if you throw enough money at a game you can make it look great”

    Scott Rundell @ restoration discussion — Raises concern about award judging criteria when costly restorations compete with custom builds

Entities

Scott RundellpersonNeil McRaepersonPhil PalmerpersonJamespersonIlsapersonWaynepersonPaulpersonHollypersonChris BpersonAnt

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: UK Pinfest 2025 was held at a hotel venue with Phil Palmer/team taking over the facility. Hotel takeover was praised, but operational issues persisted including room double-bookings, insufficient bar staffing (only one till open despite two available), and slow drink service during peak times.

    high · Scott and Neil detailed hotel logistics, noting improvements in breakfast and bar service but criticizing understaffing and lost revenue opportunities

  • ?

    product_concern: Spinal Tap pinball machine has significant code synchronization problems, misaligned animations with shot mechanics, poor video asset quality, and fails to capture the film's humor in gameplay. Code requires thorough rebuild.

    high · Neil McRae's detailed critique: 'animations seem to be out of sync with the shots... needs a real thorough rebuild of the code' and 'video assets need to be changed'

  • ?

    product_concern: Scott's recently purchased boutique pinball machine uses hot-glued rails instead of standard mechanical fasteners, indicating cost-cutting manufacturing practices and potential reliability issues.

    high · Scott discovered rails 'were hot glued in to the playfield' instead of using standard nylon nuts and prongs

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Metallica tournament machine at Pinfest had weakened flipper power, creating difficult playing conditions. Issue attributed to either mechanical wear or deliberate power reduction, not steep angle. Format requires consistent 3-game scoring across 10-game bank.

    high · Neil's experience: 'the Flippers had come out of a 300-year sleep... There was just no power in the Flippers' and comparison to his own properly-maintained machines

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.297

0:00
Welcome to the Great British Pinball Podcast, and here are your hosts, Scott Rundell and Neil McRae.
0:18
Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil McRae, and my partner in crime. Hello, and I'm Scott Rundell. Hey, Scott, how are you doing? Good week? Not too bad. Not too bad, man. It's been a long week, but I'm glad it's Friday. Definitely that's one thing we saw.
0:38
I tell you, amen to that. Very glad it's Friday. Although I've got a family birthday here tomorrow, so you might hear a noise. It's a bouncy castle. It's right outside my shed. I don't know if you can hear the noise of it, but hopefully you can. But, yeah, so obviously the big news over the last couple of weeks was Pinfest. And probably the bigger news from last week is I actually ended up going, which wasn't in my plan.
1:09
And I said it to a few people, how come you're here? I was supposed to be in the U.S. for work. But my boss was presenting something in Europe, actually at the Holland Formula One. he wasn't well and I got asked to take his place. So I flew back to Holland, did my spiel, couldn't find a cheap way of getting back to California. So I came back home because my wife, because I wasn't going to be here, she had plans, she wasn't around. So I went to the club on Thursday night and Matt said, hey, you should come to Pinfest, you've got nothing else to do. And I was like, if I can get a hotel room, I'll come. so next and I told Matt to take a couple of my games because he was taking a van load of games up so he took Deadpool well he actually was going to take Godzilla but there was a big cry out multiple Godzillas already there right yeah I know they didn't want to take money away from the charity game which we will have to come back to the charity game because there was a big story there yes there was Yeah, no, the – so anyway, Chris, I bought an Ironman of Chris B and he brought it there. And then the next day I phoned the hotel, got a room, jumped in the car and drove up. That was it, basically.
person
Mattperson
Thomasperson
James (Majestic)person
UK Pinfestevent
Spinal Tapgame
Big Lebowskigame
Deadpoolgame
Aliengame
Metallicagame
Godzillagame
Scooby-Doogame
Lord of the Ringsgame
Stern Pinballcompany
Pinball Brotherscompany

gameplay_signal: Big Lebowski is structurally similar to Medieval Madness with comparable rules and gameplay mechanics, making it feel derivative rather than innovative. Also noted as unreliable at club venue.

medium · Scott: 'cheap man's medieval madness, poor man's medieval madness, because the rules are very similar the gameplay is very similar'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Multiple machines at Pinfest required mid-show intervention due to failures (Scooby-Doo disabled after hours, Game of Thrones post mechanism required adjustment). Raises venue maintenance standards questions.

    high · Scott's prediction about Scooby-Doo came true; Neil noted Game of Thrones post mechanism changed by tournament organizers mid-event

  • ?

    community_signal: Strong women's tournament contingent at Pinfest with approximately 40 participants. Organized by Ilsa and team. Represents growing female participation in competitive pinball.

    high · Scott: 'it was great to see a big women's contingent in the women's comp. I think there were like 40 people there'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Detailed discussion of restoration quality metrics: decal alignment difficulty, cabinet rebuilding complexity from damaged originals, multi-stage application processes, and the distinction between original aesthetic vs. condition quality.

    medium · Extended dialogue about Lord of the Rings restoration challenges and how custom coloring (green/blue/pink) affects perception despite underlying quality work

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Big Lebowski received significantly more positive community reception at Pinfest than expected, despite being a re-released title from 2016. Hosts note 'everyone raving about it' and treating it as a new game.

    medium · Scott: 'It's weird you know that everyone says like act like it's a new game I suppose from what I've seen at least historically wise it's been out for a long time'

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: Spinal Tap machine features Marshall amplifier emblems without Marshall speakers installed, raising concerns about potential brand licensing violations and trademark usage standards in pinball manufacturing.

    medium · Scott's observation: 'It'd be like saying, here's Bose, but it hasn't got Bose speakers in it. I would have thought Marshall speakers would be like, you have to have our equipment in there to use that name.'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Clear quality gap observed between major manufacturers (Stern, JJP) and boutique/smaller builders. Hot-glued components and decal misalignment suggest cost-cutting practices in smaller batch production.

    medium · Scott: 'I do find that a lot though with boutique games... I can tell when people are making machines and they're not how can I put it, at the calibre of people like Stern or even JJP'

  • ?

    event_signal: Debate over whether machines brought to shows for sale should remain playable for full duration or can be disabled by sellers. Pinball Brothers Alien was pulled mid-show, generating policy discussion about fairness to paying attendees.

    high · Scott advocated for mandatory playability throughout event: 'if you're going to bring a game to the show it's got to be there for the duration of the show otherwise don't bring it for sale'

    • 2:31
    Didn't really plan very much. It was great to see everybody. It was a great show. I think Phil and the team, they took over the hotel. I thought that was fantastic.
    2:40
    I was pleased to see that my prediction of Scooby-Doo not lasting more than a couple of hours. worked out. It lasted a little bit longer than that, but yeah.
    2:52
    It was dying by the end of Friday night. It was kind of funny. I mean, everyone says, people say, my game is fine. In a home environment, these games are probably never a problem. They will be. But this is my thing, and we talked about this before.
    3:11
    I don't want to fiddle with games. I want to play them. So when I get home... Let the record show, by the way, because a lot of people said this to me during the show. They said, oh, Alien the Pinball Brothers one was down. I said, no, it was sold, and the person asked for it to be turned off so that no one could play it. I've got to admit, that brings up a whole discussion about that. I think there needs to be some clarification and rules. I think if someone brings a machine, I think it should be there for the duration of the show. I agree. Yeah, we can discuss that a bit later. Yeah, I mean, it's a hard one for Phil because he doesn't want, you know, some people do bring games to sell them. Absolutely, they do. Yeah, absolutely. It's not an easy one, but, you know, you want to be able to play games. And actually, for that one, you know, I mean, the guy's saying, oh, turn it off because it's going to get a couple of hundred plays on it. It's a bit ridiculous in my view. Well, you know, it's like, obviously, you remember I was the first person to get an Alien. I had the glorious prototype from James who actually was at the show at Pinfest James, you look like you'd eaten a few pies mind you he didn't come say hi to me I didn't expect him to come and say hi to me I would have liked him to say sorry Scott for selling you a prototype that I didn't tell you was a prototype but never mind I think my perspective may as well talk about machines on site at Pinfest since we're on the subject anyway. I think personally, at least from my point of view, when I had that prototype there, it was played throughout the duration of the week, weekend, I should say, sorry. And that was the expectation from me is I'm buying a machine that's brought to the show for the purposes of the show, therefore it should be left on. And I think that's only fair. I think people come there to play games. It costs them a lot for entry. I think there needs to probably be something think that in in the rules that says like if you're going to bring a game to the show it's got to be there for the duration of the show otherwise don't bring it for sale 100 i mean i you know and i mean these games are built to be placed in arcade you know they're not built absolutely yeah unless it's a spinal tap they're not built for uh for for to break in three seconds but um yeah i mean you know i had my deadpool there um and my deadpool i think got 300 plays all weekend.
    5:34
    And, you know, I ran a mini comp on it with a Pinball Republic t-shirt, if you got a high score actually, which reminds me, I need to send one to Moonraker old, my good buddy Pete down in Salisbury, special and lit. Do you know what, I didn't even know you had that competition on because I showed up in that top ten and I was like, I didn't even give it a moment's thought. It was on the big side on the back of the game.
    5:56
    It said, no, to be fair, it did say double the achievements or something like that, but it didn't say anything about a competition reward. I think a lot of people weren't aware of that. I thought I'd put it, maybe I didn't put it on there. I did put the Chivos thing, maybe I didn't put it on there.
    6:11
    I would have liked to have put a screen up with the scores on it, but anyway, I'll be honest here, it was partly to give that a bit of a test ahead of the UK Open, so see how that worked, because we've been up a load of games with Stern and Cedar Connect and it has been a bit flaky, but unfortunately we couldn't get Iron Maiden on because I forgot to bring something but unsurprisingly given the fact I wasn't planning on being there I didn't have much gear in the boot but yeah I mean I loved that you know Scooby-Doo's a lot of positive feedback well obviously and also Big Lebowski everyone raving about that It's weird you know that everyone says like act like it's a new game I suppose from what I've seen at least historically wise it's been out for a long time right I played it in 2016 mate yeah I was going to say lunch right so they had this big hotel chicago expo they had this big lunch they were all drinking champagne it was like i was kind of new at pinball then but decided to go to expo just to because because i was able to and and i thought i'd be able to buy a load of parts for the games i want and um actually expo then wasn't that great it's a lot better now but they actually had this massive party they had at this big room um and a lot of people were saying how can they afford to be doing this and turns out they couldn't but I mean they've definitely come through at least now I mean obviously it is a slow production line I've seen the tour of the factory which is pretty nice yeah I mean hats off to them for sorting out all the people who gave them money yeah yeah to some extent I mean I'd still say they were a bit done hard done by but I personally think the game I think it's a good game it definitely reminds me of a Bally Williams era style game in the 90s that is like you know it's a good theme integration a lot of mechs i think if you're a fan of the film it's a bit of a no-brainer to go for it absolutely i mean i mean i think the film's okay i think it's yeah i'll be honest with you i i've watched it and i'm me and wife we've never watched it until we actually went to pinball republic and i think somebody had it at at your club that's right and it was nice for him to put that out for the public because it was like god you You always hear about it, but you never play it. And I thought, yeah, it plays well. But then I just thought, oh, I'll go watch the film, see what it's all about then. So I was a bit like, what is this all about? Balling alleys and stuff like that and carpets. I didn't get it, right? So I watched the film and I was a bit like, it's all right.
    8:42
    It's obviously a bit more of a cult film, I think, right? It's okay, but it's not like, you know, it's like everyone's got their cult film. You know, a lot of people rave on about it. Another big title, Back to the Future. I love Back to the Future, but I don't have pictures of DeLoreans on my roof. You'd be surprised at how many people I go to when I pick up a pin from someone and someone's always got the flux capacitor.
    9:07
    I like the movies. For me, I'm more of a Star Trek. I've got Star Trek stuff all over the place. Of course, yeah.
    9:18
    That's the great thing about pinball. you get all these different themes that suit certain people like Mandalorian behind me, that was a must buy for me, I just love the TV show they could have literally put a turd in a box and shipped it to me and I would have been happy some people still argue that is the case they're clearly idiots but I think the game's great I think put it this way, it's the best Star Wars game that's out there, that's my last word on it, but the bar's pretty low there Neil, but yeah, I'll give you that is true, I actually bought a Star Wars but less said about that the better, but I mean, the yeah, I mean, Lebowski for me feels like an old game, and actually to be honest with you for me, I see it as a cheap man's medieval madness a poor man's medieval madness, because the rules are very similar the gameplay is very similar and actually the one that Thomas brought to the club I have to say man it was the most unreliable game we've ever had in the club I do find that a lot though with boutique games we'll talk about my later purchase in a bit but I do find you can tell when people are making machines and they're not how can I put it, at the calibre of people like Stern or even JJP when you look under the hood you're like someone tried to put together something on a budget yeah oh yeah i'm gonna spoil it a little bit but in underneath my playfield i was a little bit shocked to see that the rails were hot glued in to the playfield like you know where you normally get the two prongs that you and the secured in by nylon nuts or something like that they decided that the best way forward was to bend them and then use hot glue to keep them in place and i'm a little bit like wow yeah that is a bit jank yeah my tna got a similar challenge with Hogley. Well, let's come back to that. And then it's a lot of great games there. I played Spinal Tap. I mean, that was just shocking. I don't even want to spend a lot of time on it. It's disappointing is what I'd like to say. I mean, you can tell... Yeah, it's a shame. It's a missed opportunity, but I think maybe with a bit more code and definitely the animations seem to be out of sync with the shots, stuff like that, it needs a real thorough rebuild of the code if I'm honest and the video assets need to be changed. Some of them were just ear crunching. There's a streak where there's a woman greeting somebody in the party. I've never watched the film unfortunately so I can't really call the scene. You haven't watched the film? No, I haven't. And I've got to admit I'll be absolutely honest with you that game has put me off watching the film. I'm sorry to say but some of the video assets I was like what is this it looks like a B movie at best please forget the game go watch the movie it's got some of the best one liner comedy moments all time maybe I'll try it's great because the movie tries to take itself super seriously so the band tries to take themselves super seriously and all around them is people ripping the piss out of them it's just freaking hilarious is it a bit like would you say kind of cheese level like the Elvira movies or movie as it were it's not that sort of level of cheese it's more like a comedy documentary they're following the band and they're getting interviewed you know if you ever watch you know you used to buy like a DVD it's a bit like The Office sort of kind of humour then when they're trying to follow like in the life of the manager and stuff like that. A little bit, but it's not, I wouldn't say it. I'd say it's a bit more, a bit less groany, a bit more funny, basically. Okay. The thing that's hilarious about it, and it does, actually, most people don't realise it, is you've got to pay attention to it. The actual dialogue is the best part of the movie. I mean, they just, just some of the... It sounds like he just, when they built that, then they haven't really thought about those moments because they're not coming out. I mean, there's one bit where they use the word shit sideways. It's the most hilarious. When I first heard this, when I saw it, right, I was literally laughing. I had to rewind the movie because I didn't laugh for so much. I'd missed half the film. I had to rewind it. And every time I thought about it, it just made me laugh again. And I couldn't even get to a point where it came out. and then there's another one where he sticks his pink missile up you and again, it plays that song but there's no link to the game It feels like the humour's been lost because I've got to admit, I'm not really seeing it when I play the game There's no humour in that at all I just think what they've done is let's just slap all this together and it should be funny They haven't failed, right? It's weird to play the game as well, isn't it? It's got like a chime in it that's like an EM, it's got a DMD in it and the colour LCD. It's like, and then strangely, right, it's got Marshall emblems above the speakers, but they're not Marshall speakers. I was like, how, as a brand, it'd be like saying, here's Bose, but it hasn't got Bose speakers in it. I would have thought Marshall speakers would be like, you have to have our equipment in there to use that name. I mean, I suspect they might get away with it, because I predict Marshall don't make a speaker that would fit a pinball machine. Potentially, yeah. Maybe the bass.
    15:02
    I'm with you on that. I think it's terrible. I mean, the simple fact is, I think if you were to give this to, like,
    15:10
    you know, bless some liming sheets if he hadn't passed, or Rick and Elwin and say, hey, turn this into a good game, I think they could probably turn it around. I think they could make it a playable, fun game. Will they make it a classic? I doubt it. but that the code i mean the other big issue is one of the shots you can only hit it if you rebound off something i mean i just thought what yeah there are some odd geometry choices with that game especially like if you did the orbit it had a tendency to go straight down the middle yeah i mean it was a bit i don't know if that was just like um leveling or something like that but it was almost reliant on the center post you know i mean you hit across the right orbit hooked across fell back down and then it hits the center post and sometimes it would miss and go straight down the middle. Yeah, or I would hit the centre post and just go round like that. Yeah, yeah. Nah, not great. I mean, let's move on to better things. Okay. So, you know, again, there's some other great games. You brought a beautiful Holly's beautiful Lord of the Rings. It looks fantastic.
    16:17
    Monster Bash you brought was awesome. I had a couple of games of that. You know, some of the other games that were in for the kind of best game i actually even play but i mean there's there's a couple of adams families there i i think the game's born as hell so i mean i had a look at them thought yeah it's shiny but that was about it so um but then i was credit to ant right i mean he he does good job in terms of finish yeah i mean that you a lot of people will always comment about his machines and say you know those look like brand new and i think like it depends on where you're coming from see the thing is i always find with our least with our works i say ours i have to give credit to Holly Ray, she does a lot of work, especially on that Lord of the Rings, is that I feel we definitely don't go for originality. That is just something I don't ever want to aspire to. I mean, we talk about our latest project later, but that's definitely far from original. And I feel like, at least with Pinball, at least, I've found that that's a little bit open. People can create something that isn't original and still get appreciation. But on the whole, I mean, I even saw some comments from people doing tours of the tournament, tours of the Pinfest, I mean, And one guy in particular stops in front of our machine on his video and goes, this was in Lord of the Rings, and he goes, it's nice, but I prefer the original. And I just thought that's exactly why, unfortunately, you're never going to get everybody happy about our choice of what we've done with that game. It is going to create divisions because some people will say it's got to be pure. It's got to be as original as possible. Yeah, but then you go and look at their game and they've painted it pink. you know I don't know I think if you don't like my thing is if you don't like the style okay that's cool but then look at the quality of the work that's been done I mean a lot of people I don't think appreciate when you've rebuilt a cabinet and it looked like it had chunks missing well it didn't look it did have chunks missing out of it and to get it to a position where it looks like it's brand new it's harder than people think exactly and that and that and that was that's kind of my point which is look okay maybe you don't like that it's green or it's blue or it's pink or whatever right but is the work done of a you know a good quality does it look like you know the does it look you know like it's it like like it kind of lights up the room and and i think yeah you know it's small details as well a lot of people don't realize it's even like lining up the decal work from left to say the coin door and even in the latest game i've bought they didn't align it so it's off center so even a factory made machine the decals are off center and it's like easy jones yeah i mean doing it getting it right as well it's not so easy you've got to bear in mind that when you're applying decals a lot of times it's like set once and you're done so if you get that position right on the coin door that will flow through to the left side or to the right side and it's going to make it that much harder to create everything in line because sometimes you've only got so much bleed and bleed being is the uh how can i put it the error of margin you've got between where you're going to make the cut against the cabinet and where it will finally sit on the cabinet if you see what i mean in terms of the finished art so it is it's definitely a lot harder than people i think appreciate yeah i mean i i think so i was i haven't seen the stern guys do it in the factory they kind of wet the whole cabinet and and they they move around oh i've seen them do it yeah they're lucky as well this stuff is pre-cut perfectly when you buy decals from my my end we've got to cut it to size that's what i mean you're in a factory they've got control over the whole thing soup to nuts so they can make it easier so when you hear of a factory company getting it wrong you know skirmish getting it wrong on the on the corners of of uh decals for a while that's like that just feels lazy to me right um it's not when you're nature of the beast isn't of building out in bulk like that i suppose they're gonna make errors yeah i mean when you're building your own game and you're putting your heart and soul into it you know you you want to comment on the heart and soul whether you like the whether the taste meets your your kind of um you know particular style yeah i think sometimes you have to like i suppose what i would have liked to have seen when people vote for things for like best in show and that is a bit transparency about how that decision's made yeah so as an example i'd be like you know are you rating it as you say on on quality are you rating it on originality are you rating it on um how can i put it how reliable it's been are you rating on errors found you know what what is your criteria for making that award because if it's just purely based on what you like then it can come across as obviously very biased so it'd be for me it'd be great to understand like how that scoring system is put together and just a bit of transparency of how it's achieved. I agree and I think some shows do that. I think they do that at Texas where they've got five different categories where you kind of give it different stars. But I mean, Matt, like I say, I'm never going to vote that the best game is Adam's Family from a style point of view or a game point of view, but if I see a game that's been rebuilt and it looks like it rolled out of the factory then I'm going to give it a five out of five for effort and for workmanship, right? Sure. that's just you just have to think about it that way and and also you know some of these games and i want to put this in a way that doesn't sound like it does in my head but you know if you throw enough money at a game you know you can make it look great um yeah i mean the year before last they were talking about like awarding um i think it was an attack from mars le remake to win the best in show. It was like, well, that goes back to what you were saying about if you bring enough money to anything, you could just say, well, I just roll out my collector's edition of XYZ and say, yep, it's the best in show. There's nothing wrong with having an award for that if you have an award that just simply says the best, blitziest machine, but then there should be an award for the best custom-made restoration. Yeah, agreed.
    22:28
    Actually, I think if... I mean, my take is, you know, give Phil that feedback, I suspect they'll have a thing about it. I mean, one of the great things is, you know, I'd say about Pinfest, getting back to that, was the fact that, you know, they'd taken over the hotel. So, I mean, it wasn't, you know, the reception desk was the reception desk at a hotel, effectively. I mean, the only downside was the usual hotel pains in the ass. So lots of people with rooms that were taken by someone else, someone, you know, the car. that still happened this time i had a couple of folks that will remain nameless but they um they were like i went in my room and somebody there and i was like really i had that issue last year i'm surprised they still got that now i i last year i had two people because i was here before i can't remember but it was a year after covid the first one but yeah you know we had people come in and actually for me it pissed me off so i think grand's worth of camera gear and i'm like when you skip, that gets nicked and that'll be I mean it's not the UK pin fest organisers issue that's down to the hotel unfortunately there was definitely things better about the hotel, I felt like there was more people there, the breakfast was definitely better the bar service was better except for when you went to pay because they still had, I mean they got two tills there but they only used one, I mean what are they thinking and it annoys me because as someone who runs businesses and makes money, I just see them leaving money on the table. I did see one of the comments I had from one of the workers because we went up to get a drink, and she was like, oh, we have to open up the bar early because people are asking for drinks. I said, I think you don't understand. A lot of the people here are going to be probably… Probably here for the drinks. Exactly. I was thinking it's the weekend. It's a long, how can I put it, event. People are going to be drinking throughout the day. And then you've got James from Majestic who buys a £32 gin and drops it. You only have the bar open for crazies like him. I'm sure he'll appreciate me saying that. That's a bit of a rough one, isn't it, to drop that? He was like ah By that time he probably had enough gin that actually it was probably a good thing he didn drink it But he was in great spirits with our James and dancing away at the karaoke I mean, the other highlight of the show, I mean, I obviously wasn't part of it, but it was great to see a big women's contingent in the women's comp. I think there were like 40 people there, I think. Yeah, yeah, it was a good turnout, definitely. Well done to Ilsa and all the folks that organised that. It was great to see.
    25:09
    And then the other highlight for me, I really enjoyed, I mean, I was kind of there, first time I've been in a show in a while where I'm not helping doing something at the show. So I was just a normal punter. I was going to say, you get to enjoy it a little bit more, don't you? Yeah, and I absolutely did. It was great just being able to do whatever you want to do, go back to the room, get a shower, change, come back out, get to eat, do whatever you want to do at whatever time. and then I kind of started to play a few of the competition games and I found the tournament a bit harder than previous years.
    25:46
    So why did you find it harder then? Well, so the format that Wayne and Paul run is a card format. So you've got to get three games on your card. So if you get three good games, you're in good shape. If you get two good games and one okay game, you're on the bubble, right? You've got to be consistent. And so immediately you're looking at a bank of 10 games and you're trying to thread, okay, which games should I play? Which are the games I know the best or feel confident about getting good scores on? And actually, I went in there pretty upbeat because there was lots of games I thought, you know, I'm feeling good about this this year. Yeah. because there's Metallica, I own the game, there's Godzilla, I own the game, there's Bond, I own the game, there's Foo Fighters, I own the game. What game do you not own, Neil? Let's face it. Yes, so... But, you know, you're in a position where you... I mean, there was a Game of Thrones there, but I don't like Game of Thrones, so I wouldn't play it. I still want that game, personally, but why do you not like it, then? Just quickly on that. I just find it a bit overly complex and I just want to keep stopping you've got to start thinking I just find the layout a bit too close to the flipper for my Is that the pro one or is that based on both models? I own a premium, it's at the club and it's not a terrible game, don't get me wrong I'm also not a big fan of Game of Thrones it's not a big TV show for me See, I liked it other than the last season, but it was good for me. I mean, like I say, it's a decent game. Steve Ritchie, who I love, but it never gelled with me.
    27:36
    But it's not the worst game I've played. And then, actually, the Game of Thrones, I didn't actually play it because I knew it would be difficult to score high on it. I mean, it's a billion sort of game. They put a post on the right-hand orbit that basically, when the ball came down it went straight down the middle so you had to kind of slap save it when you say they did that Stern designed it with that no Wayne and Paul made a change I don't know if it was Wayne or Paul they tried to make it a bit more challenging and actually it was kind of weird because I played it in the finals on the Sunday and the post whatever they'd done I'd stopped working because it played fine for me I was waiting to have to hit the because everyone warned me about it. I need to slap save it. And I didn't, and it came straight to my flip. I was like, I don't know what the fuss is about. But getting back to the game choice, so I'm like, yeah, quids in, man. I'll do Metallica, Godzilla, and Bond. Life is good, right? I'm like, this is going to be great. So step up to Metallica on a Friday night.
    28:39
    And I literally ordered a large gin after it. I mean, it was. Hope you didn't drop it. Yeah, no. on the game. I wish I had done. No, I'm just kidding. Look, the Metallica,
    28:56
    to say that the Flippers had come out of a 300-year sleep would be an understatement. There was just no power in the Flippers. And this is the thing, I'm anal about that in the club, right? James, who looks after my games here now as well, if a flipper doesn't whack the ball into next week it's not working right so you know that's the way i have all my games so i step up to a game with weak flippers i'm like i'm in trouble but not only that metallica is like a high game the ramps are high right so it was a struggle in fact we were playing almost we were playing this game for a laugh which was like five quid to whoever can hit a ramp um wow between about eight of us so what do you think it was like running at like 7.5 degrees or something like that or no that's the thing it wasn't running steep it was the the flippers themselves just didn't have power in them and i just didn't feel confident about them so was that like flipper fade you think or was that no i maybe the sleeves are knickered or the cold stops had given up or it's either it's either something to do with the the power going in the flippers or i actually think maybe they dialed down the power on the flipper deliberately and I've seen that done in competitions before it's not something I would do and if I did do it I would flag it and say because everyone was talking about it what's the story with this Metallica that was the five on Metallica I actually managed to put about 100 million on it on a Friday night which was I think I can't remember I need to check that would have been a top score for qualifying but the other issue with it was I couldn't, it wasn't, there was a couple of switches on it that weren't 99% sure were not detecting That was when we weren't registering, right? Was it like just down to the speed of the switch, like if it was like going over too quick, it just wasn't picking it up Yeah, something like that, it was, you know and look, at the end of the day it was the same for everybody, so it wasn't like it was a big disability for me specifically, right? But, if you've got like I've got the way I play pinball, because I'm I have to really concentrate to play good, right? And if I concentrate and I'm in the zone, I can play good. But then to stay in the zone, to keep my kind of concentration, every game I've got a path that I follow, and it's the same path. And if I can't take that path, I'm screwed. You're breaking your method, so to speak. Yeah, so with Metallica, you know, my path is I'm heading, I mean, most people say this, but, you know, I'm trying to get to crank it up. And I just couldn't get it to a point where Crank it up lit. So I kind of thought, okay, let me park that. I mean, this wasn't a disaster, but I'm thinking, I wish I brought my Metallica and I could stick it in here because this would be easy, right? Anyway, I then played Godzilla and then ordered the whole bottle of gin.
    31:59
    You went from bad to worse then. Yeah, it was, I honestly wanted to cry. I could not play the game at all.
    32:08
    This was when I brought this game, and I don't know if this had come out of the factory like this, but his... The left flipper on his game just was not like any other Godzilla I'd ever played. In what way, then? Are we talking like... How it was set up in terms of angle? It looked like it was on a very low droop, which when you couldn't hit that... So the flipper alignment was a little bit off, maybe, then? I don't know if it was... Yeah, but I don't know if it was... I don't know if... Again, I think he might have done this deliberately to make the game harder. I don't know. I didn't have a chance to speak to him about it, but... Okay. So basically, and I'll talk about another Godzilla game that I had over the weekend, but I can normally... In an event like that, I can normally get a five to 800 maybe you're allowed to walk me through it because when it comes to like pinball tournaments i'm going man i'm a complete noob when it comes to this i would have thought that to create an equal fair play so that you know every game should play in a way that's similar to another one that you have to have the flipper uh how can i put it the alignment set specifically via a template so that it says right it's exactly the same regardless of whatever game you go on in the lineup sort of Yeah, I mean, it's a tough one because, you know, you can make some games so easy that they'll play for, like, four hours. Yeah, I can imagine, right, Scooby-Doo, right? I've seen it, like, you say it was down, but, I mean, I saw one guy on it and he was on it for, like, an hour. Yeah, I'll believe it. Yeah, I mean, like, because the game is so generous, I'd say, with the shots. The ball always just lands on the flipper. And, actually, I hear Godzilla's a bit like that, right? So, anyway, I tried two goes, maybe three goes at Godzilla, and I couldn't hit the right ramp at all. I just could not hit it. Okay. And I thought, okay, I can live with that, but then I couldn't hit the scoop. And I'm like, these are two important shots.
    34:15
    I'm not going to risk it. And then I played Bond. I put a couple hundred million on Bond. I thought, thank God, one game that plays as I expected to play. Hallelujah. but then I'm kind of looking at like I'm in the shit because my my default path for this tournament is in the toilet so what do I do so I had a game of Foo Fighters and I was kind of annoyed with myself because so I've got I own two Foo Fighters I've got one at home and the LA I got premium at the club right but I've barely played the game and and I was kind of like you twat why have this game and not play it so that when you're in this competition you know you can play well so So I had a good few games of it, and there was another one in the show. So I went and played that one for a bit, and I got more comfortable with it. So, you know, I thought, okay, I can – and I was looking at the score, and I thought, hmm, I can do okay on this. But I'm looking at the bank finger, and what's my last pick? And I'm like, I'm screwed here. So I had to go at Blackjack, which is an old ballet classic. Actually, a really good game. I like it. Okay. you've got to get 21 and then put the ball in the scoop. And actually, if you can get that scoop shot, or it's more like a saucer, if you can get that shot, you're in good shape. And I had it kind of, but then I noticed that lots of people were playing on it, and I thought, hmm, it's going to be, if I get a good score or I get a reasonable score, it's going to come under a lot of pressure. Yeah. So I pinged a few buddies, a couple of the buddies I play pinball with and I'm in the US, and I said, what would you do? And they're like, and both of them said Beatles, right? And I'm like, really? And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, Beatles, Beatles, Beatles. So basically I went, I kind of watched a couple of videos on Beatles. They gave me a kind of strategy for it.
    36:09
    So you've never played it? You haven't got it or anything like that? No, I played it a long time ago. I did a launch event for ElectroCoin, actually. I streamed it. Oh, right. ages ago but i hadn't really i played it like you know hit the flashing lights playing it um but um actually eric chuck worth um from straight down the middle beautiful guy i love him um and uh ian um uh i forget his his handle online but um another great guy they both they both tour me in Beatles and um and I and basically on Saturday night I had a massive game I was like I was like yes and um I mean I was really I was going boom I was giving it the whole thing and um I got to the multi-ball so there's this there's in Beatles by default ball three it gives you the multi-ball like it's like a like a pity multi-ball and like okay yeah yeah I get you and anyway they turned that off right so that made it really difficult for everybody but I actually completed all the modes and got to the multiball I mean basically the game is play the modes, get up to your level as you do well in the modes and then at light super jackpot, hit the super jackpot I hit two super jackpots, I got to the multiball I think it was four and a half, maybe five million which put me I think the second top score so I'm like yes and then it's kind of late on saturday night i'm like okay do i go play bond so i've got this one card this one game on this card i go play bond and i mean you should play bond considering how many different bonds you've got but yeah i i it was more about should i play on saturday night or should i wait till sunday morning so i decided to wait i just thought right i'm i'm gonna have a few beers i'm gonna play some ball i'm gonna park i'm glad i did because i came in the next morning And then, actually, I had a nightmare. Both Foo Fours and Bond, first two balls on both were shit.
    38:09
    But I had a great last ball on both of them. I think when I submitted my card, I was 11th or 12th. And I thought, at that time, I'm pretty safe. Even if I get a bit of kickdown from other competitors, I should qualify, and I did.
    38:25
    And then I played, oh, God, his name's gone mad. He's one of our club members as well. but I'm rubbish with names. He beat me 2-0, deservedly, so I had to play Game of Thrones, and then I played Foo Fighters and they're terrible Foo Fighters games. Again, I was annoyed with myself because I haven't played that game anywhere near enough that I should have done, and I wasn't as comfortable. You only got yourself to blame there, Neil. Sounds like you had enough preparation. I really enjoyed it. It sounds like you had a good time, though.
    38:54
    It sounds like at least the machines weren't exactly like, how can I put it, it's not like they were in bad condition or anything. they were just set up differently right yeah well i i think so i hope so i mean i have to say if metallica wasn't because they take it done something to make it like that i don't know if a game like that in a tournament i run because it sounds like they were just trying to make it harder and i get that that was my that was my take and i think as you say maybe a little bit it goes back to what i was saying before about transparency when it comes to competition elements I think it's just maybe a good idea to put it out there it's like for me I've got Star Trek here and the ball saves off so there's a big post-it note on the back saying no ball save right because people expect it to be on right for me Star Trek's a simple enough game the ball comes to your flipper pretty easily if you can yeah if you break a shot and you've hit ball save then it's effectively an extra ball so there's some games where I wouldn't turn off on Star Wars because you'd just be dead. You'd have like three balls. I was going to say, that check system is not the best. It's even Guns N' Roses. I don't know if you ever played that. That had a tendency to mess up as well. It was really sloppy.
    40:06
    That's the thing. I mean, we talked about this before. How can you have a game where the plunge is so shit? It's the first time you have the game. Yeah, I mean, the tournament ran well. Craig Pullen won it. He played really great.
    40:18
    And it was a well-run tournament. I enjoyed it. Again, it was great just to be able to play at the pace I wanted to play, no pressure.
    40:28
    I kind of wish I'd got through the next round, which I did last year, but fair play to Wayne and Paul for putting on a decent event. Yeah, I think, to be honest with you, there's a story behind me arriving back late at Daventry, which we'll go into later, but I remember catching Phil and I said to him, how do you think it went? He said he felt like it was the best one he's done ever. So I don't know if that's based on just his experience or just turnout or everything combined. But, yeah, he felt like it went really well. And I think, to be honest with you, he had amazing turnout. It was really busy. Yeah, I mean, I think taking over the place really meant it. Oh, that was the right call, 100%. Yeah, I mean, they did this karaoke in the bar. That was a huge amount of fun.
    41:11
    It's probably how you caught COVID, Neil, if I'm honest. Probably, yeah. I'm a bit of a karaoke nut, and I've got a party piece, which is the Bee Gees. and you should be dancing. Right. There's videos on the internet that you can buy of this performance by me if you choose. Right. It was a lot of fun, a lot of great people there. And, you know, I'm not a big drinker, but I had a few beers. And it was good fun. You know, it felt like a bit more of a community event than perhaps it did previously. Sure. And then, again, one of the other kind of swift highlights for me was beating Alan O'Grady and his chums at Godzilla.
    41:57
    That was on the cherry pins, right? Yeah, so basically Alan's been drinking all night. I'd had a couple of Budweiser's, but I was in good shape. Like I say, I'm not a big drinker because I hate being hungover the next day. Sure. Alan goes, I'm challenging a £100 Godzilla game I'm like, yep, I'm in one of Alan's buddies whose name escapes me he was in as well, we were trying to get Ian Waring in, but he was too much of a chicken and he said, I'm just too drunk I was like, yeah, so aren't we all mate, right anyway, it was we played it on this Godzilla, which I didn't know, but the other guys did know, I didn't know this there was no freaking tilt bulb in it. Oh, okay. That's a surprise, actually, for a charity pin. I would have thought actually any pin, to be honest, if you got pinned first, you'd have had a tilt bulb. Any pin in the world, if you'd have a tilt bulb, you should be taken out and shot, as far as I'm concerned. Luke, this was all a bit of laughing. Actually, the original thing wasn't for charity. It was just like, we're going to have a $100 game, right?
    43:07
    And in Godzilla, I played that Godzilla and I was very confident about getting a decent score on it so I stepped up. Anyway, we play for like the first two balls and we've all got like about, I don't know, 60 million each. Three even scores. Literally a one ball game and I just got my headphones on, I got the rhythm and then the music was playing in the background was really good and I was kind of dancing while I play and I put up 780 million, I'm thinking, I've won this, right? Right. I was pretty confident about it. And everyone was... Is that on ball two or ball three? That was ball three. So I was player one, ball three, right? Player one, ball three. So I got 780 million. I'm feeling pretty good about it.
    43:57
    And then Alan steps up. And actually, I mean, Alan's a great player. But, you know, he's one of those guys who comes to pin fest to drink, and socialise more than to play football, right?
    44:10
    There's nothing wrong with that, yeah. No, absolutely nothing wrong with that. And probably if we were both sober, he'd probably beat me, I think, or it would be very close. Anyway, he stepped up and he had a massive ball and he got to the end, he got a huge carnage bonus, which I'd completely forgotten about, which really, I was like, and I'm thinking, I've lost this, I really thought. so he hits 500 million I'm thinking I've got no chance now extra balls were on because there was no tilt so you were like moving the machine there was big moves anyway I can imagine you could be throwing that thing across the floor it was funny because did you allow for death saves then? no well I think Alan tried I didn't do a death save because it's not good I just wouldn't do a death save because it's not good for the machine it's not good for you I think Alan had a go at kind of bouncing the ball out and it didn't work which made me chuckle so he eventually lost the ball and he was at 500 and something against my 7-0 but then his buddy stood up and his name's got in my head it's going to annoy me apologies for that but anyway he steps up and I know he's a good player as well and I'm pretty sure he's a better player than Alan and then he just had a shitter he got 20 million and ended up with 80 million and I'm like yes and the whole place was everyone was watching this I can imagine it's quite gathering because the main show is closed at that point right and everyone was out in the bar so I basically gave the money to the charity it was really nice of you it was a huge amount of fun I really enjoyed it It was a good laugh. And, you know, Alan, the guy, is a good guy. He's like the distributor for Stern in Ireland.
    46:10
    He's a good guy. He runs a few barcades. Okay. And, yeah, good dude. He definitely sounds like, you know, that's quite nice, isn't it? We have somebody who's so evangelical about not only the game, but running it as a business as well. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think it's, you know, I get the sense it's not the easiest business in the world, but, yeah. Yeah, I mean, so Pinfest highlights for you?
    46:35
    I think, like, for me, like, I'd say it was nice to be able to try it. I know you didn't like it, but I really like Scooby-Doo. See, we're different style of players. I'm really crap, so when I play something that's got, like, a lot of toys and it's good theme integration, I rate games completely different to you. I mean, like, that's shown probably by my latest purchase, but basically, for me, I wouldn't say theme is king, but theme is important. if I don't like the theme I'm not going to bother with the game that's just the bottom line of it I don't really care if it's the best game since sliced bread, if it hasn't got a theme that speaks to me, I won't buy it sorry to say music, call outs, all very important music's probably the only thing that if I don't like the music it's really hard, I am made in such a great game I hate the music so I put this one basically yeah I've played yours even at the show it was playing like you know I will survive I think I got into it I was like, this is definitely someone messing around with the code.
    47:32
    It's like, I think like for me, I like Scooby-Doo because it had good theme, good call-outs, good animations. And the shots are quirky because it's like, obviously, you just don't know where the shots are going to return from. Maybe, I don't not like it. Yeah. It's okay. It's just not a game that I would naturally want to play.
    47:51
    Yeah, I think it's this thing, right? It's not like Star Wars where I freaking hate the game, right? it's more when I played it at the Spimble Festival, it was a beautiful looking game that's the first thing you know they absolutely nailed the artwork and I think they've matured a lot as a business, you can tell like Spooky has stepped up their game, the games are starting to look more, I would say not operator ready because I don't think they're there yet, I definitely feel like they're looking more robust and underneath the hood, they're thinking a bit more about how everything is wired up.
    48:28
    Obviously, it being out of action, I got to see underneath the hood, so it was good to see what was underneath it all. Part of that is because, actually, if you do an efficient job under the hood, making the games are easier, the cheaters make more money.
    48:43
    What is this, their seventh or eighth game? I think so, yeah. They are learning, there's no question about it. And also, this is the thing I like about Spooky, is they're not willing to try something. They're not scared to try something. Yeah, their code is, like, unique as well. You know, like, renewing your air supply and stuff like that and building up your courage meter. And they're bringing innovation in, even just small stuff like with the aprons, with the ball locks and stuff like that. I just felt like probably what they're missing still is the flow. Yeah. Like, a lot of their games have always been, I think, criticised as being a little bricky. Yeah. And that definitely feels that way still. I think once they got that element down that just geometry stuff right I think they can probably the next game they make will hopefully have all those missing pieces I don think they far from it And I glad that everyone still buying their games because I want them to succeed. Yeah, I do as well. Actually, next, quickly, rumor,
    49:42
    apparently Texas Chainsaw Massacre is the next spooky game. Yeah. We'll see if that actually comes to fruition. I mean, don't get me wrong. That would be an interesting one to see. I would be in on that because that's kind of just one of those cult things from the 80s. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like you say, beautiful game. I think definitely every game Spooky brings out is a better game than the one before. I think Halloween, did you play Ultraman, by the way? I did play it while I was there. If I had the choice between Halloween and Ultraman, it would be Halloween any day of the week. I think, one, the theme doesn't really speak to me for Ultraman. um i think if i had to choose that kind of monster era godzilla is going to crash it into next wednesday um i feel like while it probably is quite true to the theme that again something about the game like when i was playing it because obviously it's first time i played any halloween or ultraman it was good that they did the little extra code update to flick the flipper to say hey a ball's coming down towards you here so you understand that the subway's carrying the ball to you yeah it's strange because i see the game i've bought recently has a similar mechanism but i don't struggle with it actually um letting me know that that flip is going to bring the ball yeah with with ultraman i almost a couple of times i had to remind myself because i've watched the videos i've listened to people complain about it and even then i'd let the ball slip a few times down the middle that is the reason i didn't like halloween and and also i think there's a couple of mechanical things in Halloween that just weren't robust enough for me.
    51:17
    I played Ultraman very quickly there, but I kind of played it just to see what was different rather than play it properly. I do like the theme, the colours and the artwork, but actually I would probably take Ultraman over Halloween, although I wouldn't buy either in retrospect, but it was great of Jim to bring it. No, I appreciate the fact that he brought, actually, to be honest with you, we didn't talk about it, but Magic Girl as well. And although I'm not personally a great fan of that game after playing it, I definitely appreciate the fact that he brought it there because you're just never going to see that game. And to bring it out into the open, to let anyone play it on free play, I mean, that's a rarity, so I really appreciate that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it is a bit of a clunker of a game. It's just, it's a victim of unfinished code, and they've done what they can to try and do something with it. and I feel like given the right voice acting behind it and call-out packages and probably upgrading music and then a bit more on the animations and that, obviously you've got to address some of the mech issues and that.
    52:21
    It feels like it was a game that was a work in progress and it just desperately needed to be finished. It feels like an unfinished homebrew to some extent.
    52:31
    And no one can say... I mean, again, it's not the sort of artwork that appeals to me, but when you know zombie yeah when you look at the detail they went into it and actually the design of the cabinet with the screen at the bottom you know there was some really good stuff in there artworks on point like that looks good i mean no one i think the amount of people i saw that go up to and go wow that's a pretty looking game it's it has got good artwork i feel like it's just it was just one of those things that was just unfinished and they've done their best to try and give you a game that's somewhat complete credit to it at least it didn't break down it was a robust little bugger that game to be honest with you, it never broke down I think they had a couple of plunge issues but you're right it lasted a little show, I mean the other thing about it is if you're one of these people that got one of these I don't know if you know the story of Magic I do, yeah but basically people got them as kind of like a deal that was done so that J-Pop could work on other games work at American Pinball right American Pinball built them but they arrived as basically boxes of flashing lights, you couldn't actually play the game, so if you're one of the owners of that and these guys come along and say, hey, here's a way of playing it, then you're probably biting their hand off, right? Absolutely, yeah, it's better than having, as you say, just a box of lights, because that's all it would be otherwise. And, you know, I love Jim, he's a man's a genius and it was great to see him and a couple of guys from Holland that have been working on it with him to make it up and run. He had a Chicago Expo and I played it was a huge queue to play it I played it there as well but yeah all the highlights for you Scott I'd say like to be honest with you less about the machines more about the people met a couple of people that I had long chats with and it's nice to just it's weird again some people because obviously I do these things like the podcast I've done like the shop logs I've done and they come up to me alright Scott I don't know who you are I'm sorry I really don't know who you are I try to, because I'm a bit of an introvert at heart, right? There's no great, I would say, I can be pretty transparent about that. I feel like, for me, getting out there and talking to people and listening to their side of pinball and what interests them and even just sharing their stories, that was great. I like that about Pinfest the most, I think, is just getting to see the people and know the people that are behind the names in the forum. When I refer to the forum, by the way, I'm referring to pinballinfo.com. um but yeah i think like that and obviously you know as i said i i did like uh for me the ability to just even just demonstrate your games there to show off what you've done and i did have a lot of people come up to me and say you know is that yours i was like yeah that's really good it's best best laura rings i've ever played sort of thing i said like you know i appreciate that it's nice to have people say to you oh absolutely positive things so yeah absolutely i mean yeah and like you said there's so many games packed and there's games out in the hallway games everywhere like you know i i i tried the cactus canyon there because i mean i remember you telling me like um you know have you ever tried the original it's pretty unfinished i absolutely saw that yeah i feel like you know you can tell how they had to how can i put it mod it and put like a p-rock in it and then try and do cactus canyon continued in it it's like it's i'm definitely eager to try cactus canyon when i finally get mine to see what chicago games have done with it, really. Indeed. I mean, I'm still excited about that two years in. Yeah. But, you know, the rumour is it's imminent, but... We shall see. Yes, indeed.
    56:09
    And actually, I mean, it was also great to see you there in person as well, Scott, and Holly and a few other folks I hadn't seen in a while.
    56:21
    You know, there was a great party atmosphere outside in the bar. yeah it's a very positive actually wasn't it the food that they put on during the day was pretty good a bunch of us went out for curry which was uh a laugh um and um yeah i mean something bad happened to my car i'm not gonna go into the gory details here but um it was pretty frustrating um it's pretty horrific if i'm honest with you now yeah i know you don't want to talk about it much but i think it shocked me the most when i had to find out from the forum because you didn't talk about it you acted like yeah i'll be honest with you mate i was determined to not let it control the weekend because i could easily i could easily have said what you know what a shit show this is and and oh it could have brought you i mean i'll be honest with you someone done that to me i'd have taken my games and gone home yeah i mean um i it's it's inexcusable that kind of like how can i put it um vandalism is the word vandalism yeah absolutely i do hope like you know the person who does, who has done it, one, they regret it, but two, to be honest with you, they should be banned from attending any event. Yeah, I mean... I'll just take a hard line on that. Simple as that. Yeah, no, it's a tough one, but Luke, my... I mean, the police have been involved. Sure. The police went to see one of the people this week, because they weren't going to do anything, but then I know a man at the Met police and I basically said I need help on this and showed him and he went and gave them a bit of a I really think you should do something about this so they went and saw the person they're denying it is the feedback I've had and I don't think at least from a police point of view I don't think it's going to go anywhere no it's a shame I'm tempted to post a video I have to say I wouldn't blame you personally but it's up to you at the end of the day I've been warned by the cops not to do that.
    58:25
    I mean, you know what happened to me and my neighbor opposite, right? Oh, no. When I was told not to do a video and not post it online, because they're very much like that. They don't want to see insight of going to social media justice sort of thing. Yeah, it's just another way of kind of escalating it, right? Absolutely, yeah. I'll be honest with you, when I first saw it, my first instinct was to post it right away, let me tell you, right? I can imagine, yeah.
    58:49
    More impressive, your camera system. I've always seen on Teslas, I didn't realise that your particular car had that inbuilt camera system as well. Yeah. So it's pretty careful.
    58:59
    It's an extra option. And it's not, let me tell you, it's not, I mean, even the Tesla one as well, it's not perfect, but it's pretty darn good.
    59:10
    I had it on a previous car, it got keyed. Oof. And I actually got, actually the cops actually... I know we're on a complete tangent here, but I've never understood that car jealousy factor, where people will damage someone's car because it's a certain brand or because it's more expensive than theirs. In America, they go on about people have to have cameras on their Teslas because people didn't like the fact you had a Tesla. Yeah, exactly. There was no other reason other than that. It was just the pure jealousy factor. In my youth, I had some nutcase cars. I mean, you know, supercar type cars. And a friend of mine had a Ferrari. Wow. And he got it keyed really badly. It was something like 60,000 pounds worth of damage to it. Yes. And I just looked at him and thought, it's just not worth the shit. and so I actually went Aston Martin which was kind of a step away from Lambo, Ferrari the crazy land into something a bit less crazy the downside of Aston Martin at the time, it's a different story now, but at the time it had a DB9 and it just never worked I was going to say to you, I've watched a lot of car shows where they take old cars that have been like, not cat deed but where they've been cat end and stuff like that where they've had artificial damage. And the amount of parts underneath it that aren't actually Aston Martin is crazy. They've got Renault parts in it and stuff like that. I mean, this was at the time where Ford still owned them, and it was almost like you were driving a Volvo because all the buttons inside looked like a Volvo. I mean, it was a beautiful car, don't get me wrong. Sure. But, no, never again. And then, predominantly, I'm a BMW guy because the cars are decent, they're super reliable, they've got nice gadgets, and they come in white. So, you know, that's... I mean, honestly, drawing a line on, I suppose, what you've said, I think you did well, personally. You dealt with it the most mature way, and I think a lot of people respected that. There's a lot of people who, I would say, don't put you in their top ten friends list, Neil. Let's just say that kindly. What? I know, surprise and shock and horror, right? but I think given what had happened to you, there was a lot of support on the forum, even from people who say that vehemently didn't like you as a person and said, no, but this is out of order. So I, I'm pretty glad that they did that. And I appreciate it. I mean, and Luke, this is the thing, I had a great weekend up to that point and I just wasn't going to let it spoil the weekend. No, I'm glad you didn't. I mean, the only thing was, it was a bit of a nightmare driving home because it was wobbling like hell. But anyway, And then the other thing was I take it to BMW and they're like, oh, yeah, it'll be about 12 weeks before you can get a screen. I'm like, what? So I phoned up a buddy of mine at BMW GB and said, mate, you must be able to do something for me. And they sent one over from Munich. So it was only a week in the end. It's pretty quick considering, yeah. Yeah, no, I can't complain. To be honest, yeah, and to some extent, just that week, actually, I mean, I've got access to another car. so it wasn't the end of the world but I just didn't want to the car is only three months old so I just didn't want to kind of sit in there forever not looking great but I mean just to wrap up and confess well done to Phil and the team for putting on a monster show I really enjoyed it I'm glad the fortuitousness of being able to go happened because literally it was not I mean I hadn't booked a hotel but I took it I mean you lucked out getting a room I'm not going to lie but there must have been a last minute cancellation or something when I told people they were like what and they were like nah here's the booking so yeah it was a lot of fun and roll on next year basically so let's move on to mods this one's going to be a lovely debate for you isn't it I can tell. So apologies for anyone if we start literally going back and forth on this. We're going to do virtual boxing on this. Yeah, yeah. So let's preface all of this so we understand what basically why we're talking about this mod. So I bought a Rick and Morty machine. I basically was offered one that I couldn't say no to. That was at a good price on a Sunday, which was at Daventry at the time while it was a pin fest. So I just said to the wife, look, we've got a van. it's not big enough to hold three pins it's only big enough to hold two let's have the bright idea of driving down to south wales picking up that pin driving home then driving back to daventry pick up our pins and then drive home again suffice to say that was a bad idea but it was still worth it i got home at midnight i was knackered like it was like it was a lot of traveling and even getting up to get that pin we had to travel up like this humongous hill like it was a massive steep incline like maybe like 40 degrees and my wife said to me it's like it was almost like a one-track road and she says for the love of god if someone comes the other way don't pull over i said why she was there's a ravine an actual ravine on the left side just don't pull over just like make them stop and make them pull over so i was like all right so i was like we get up to this guy's house he lives on a hill it's a big surprise it's just big hilly area so we couldn't use the dolly to get the pin out of his house so i had to carry it out like on its legs and then my wife's holding the dolly trying to keep it balanced while we're getting the legs off to then put it in the the van without rolling down the hill it was it was horrible we got that we had to rush it all through so i was a bit worried about damaging the game anyway we get it back you know unpack it all but i must admit as i said to you before spooky games because this is a spooky game Rick and Morty I've always wanted it from the day I started pinball I found out there was a Rick and Morty pin and I messaged spooky and they said oh we're not making any more and I was like ah I've missed the boat on it by like two three years or whatever it was because they'd done them back in 2019 so I was I just came to accustomed to the idea of never getting one and um underneath the hood oh my god I we we said this early on this game is a little jank it's got ribbon cables connecting it from like pcb to pcb it's got a fan that's about as loud as a dyson vacuum cleaner when you turn it on it's got it's it's a scott denisey game basically scott i mean it's just if you so people who've got tna will be oh yeah that's just like tna so probably yeah scott basically did this kind of we're gonna wire every single every single light as an LED individually. He has. He's individually addressed each LED crazily. That just means you need tons of freaking cable to do it. Yeah. It looks great on the top. Oh, the light show on top of Rick and Morty is up there with Guns N' Roses. And look, I've got TNAs exactly the same.
    66:38
    And there's an overuse of the glue gun on buttons. My wife was like saying, what's all this glue? I was like, he's obviously done that to stop stuff flying out. Yeah, so I took on my TNA, there's this mod where you put this paper so that the side things light up. There's like a total nuclear annihilation on the side. You stick this mod on it and it lights up. But to get it, you need like a like some sort of dynamite to blow away all the glue gun shit that's there to get it apart. It's not hard to get it apart except for the freaking glue gun madness. That's it. Those ribbon cables are designed, you know, they're from the BBC Model B microcomputer days, are not? Well, yeah, data ribbon cables. These are like IDE cables that I used to recognise when I used to build PCs back in the 90s. Yeah. I mean, to be fair, actually, early Bally Williams games, well, I say Bally Williams games in general, if you go to the back box full of data ribbon cables. Yeah, the back box, but they're not taking, like, the kind of pounding that, you know... No, they're not underneath the playfield, yeah. And there's some oddities underneath the playfield as well. If you were... It's a bit like Scooby-Doo has this problem as well. If you rest it at the wrong point, you could crush a mech. Yeah. They haven't thought about the support rails guiding against damage from you basically resting the play field and when it's pulled out, basically. Yeah, I mean, the team that put that game together, a really strong team.
    68:01
    Like, look, I'll say this right now. Animations, best. Yeah. Hands down. I just can't see anything that's done better. I think, for me, call-outs, 100% best. Justin Roiland doing all those voice call outs there's so many, even to this now when I've been playing it and I play it a lot more than I've played any other pin, I'm not going to lie and I'm still hitting new call outs that I haven't heard before so it's definitely for me like music, animation call outs all on point, 10 out of 10 I think where it struggles is the geometry and this is why, we'll bring it into a nice little segue here, why I'm talking about Precision Flippers as the mod spotlight for this podcast So precision flippers then. So from my perspective, the reason why I went down this route of buying them is because, and you probably know it, the left ramp on Rick and Morty is very hard to hit.
    68:55
    You're talking about Iron Maiden where you're having that issue where it felt the flippers were weak and you weren't making the shots. I purely bought the precision flippers for this game because the shots on that ramp, you can have it go up and it can go up sloppily sometimes. And if it does, it just rolls straight back down. and to get anywhere in the game you need to be able to hit that ramp yeah and you have to hit it bloody bang on perfect with the standard flippers with the precision ones because they're metal they're replaced basically to give you guys a bit of a background what this mod is so basically it's a metal bat instead of your standard plastic bat and they've reorganized redesigned it i should say so that the shaft is detachable from the bat and you can re align the flipper top side of the flipper once it's installed so there's a lot of benefits to it as well it's expensive i'm not going to lie you know it's like 200 pounds for a set free uh which is a lot for a flipper bat but the bushing which is normally predominantly a metal a plastic piece sorry that sits between the playfield and the flipper is is replaced by a milled piece of metal um so durability is never going to be a problem moving forward and i'll be honest here right let me i'll i'll clue you into a little secret and if you put normal plastic flipper bats and use that machined um oh the bushing metal yeah you'll get more or less the same um outcome power transfer yeah because that's the thing i'm finding is like what the reason why i went down precision flippers is not because they were made of metal and they're more durable because suddenly the power that i was getting from these bats is insane. It's all about that bushing. That is... Right. I know people that buy provisioned flippers, chuck all the metal flippers away... And just put the metal bushing in. Just put the metal bushing in and you get... Right. And you get pretty much the same performance. I haven't tried that. I haven't seen it. It's an interesting theory. I mentioned Eric earlier on. He has done that on some of his games. Right. There's some games I think that absolutely need it. Like, you... Pinball Brothers, right? Alien. Yeah. the flippers are a thing yeah i've seen you know lots of people say you put on ggp it makes the game much better from our yeah i wouldn't put it on a stern i'll preface this now stern flippers hands down the best in the industry um i feel like you know there's so many games that when i rebuild a game for a williams valley game they go it it feels like it shoots like a stern now it's really hard and that's that's high praise when people say that because you're like okay well That's because they know that Stern make the best flippers. They are, to me, the people it should aspire to. And this is the thing when you play an older game, you know, people go, oh, here's a Dirty Harry, and they're like, well, this doesn't play that great. Because half of it's like 40 years old. And, you know, you modern... Yeah, yeah.
    71:49
    If you upgrade it and keep it running well, these games can play as like they came out of the factory on day one. but at the end of the day, I think these provision flippers have got a bit of momentum. The same on a lot of people buying a lot of them. I personally think they're completely overkill. Yeah, don't get me wrong, right? My wife loves it because she's gone from a 1 million score in Rick and Morty to an 8 million and 9 million score. They are, in a way, cheating, I think. You are getting shots where if you had them go up kind of sloppy before and they would end up going back down towards the flippers because you haven't made the shot. More or less, because of the power that's going behind it, you're going to make the shot now, regardless of whether it was sloppy or clean. Yeah, I mean, it was kind of funny. I used to race model cars, and we used to use a lot of plastic and Delrin gears. Yeah. And then we went to metal, and everyone was like, ah, it's illegal, and it's... But here's the reality. the cars freaking went a lot longer and didn't break as much they just performed better, it was that simple they made a 6061 aircraft grade aluminium and it's the same for this you know the first thing I do when I look at a game is wiggle that bushing because that will tell you your fear of magic when I touch your bushing It was hanging on by a thread. I was like, what, two screws were missing? Only had one in it. That basically had happened after a tournament I'd ran here. Oh, right. And the problem with, I mean, the big issue with that game was they'd been screwed in with bigger and bigger screws. You could tell someone couldn't find the right screws, so they'd widened the hole with a nut. They'd fallen apart, basically. And that's part of the reason why I wanted to get it restored, basically. A flipper rebuild is definitely one way, I think, to bring a lot of life into a game. Oh, absolutely. I mean, first, you buy a game, irrespective of it, right? Price in flipper replacements, right? Yeah. I mean, to some extent, that can just be the coil stop and the, yeah. Well, look at Stern, right? You can get those coil stops that, to this day, you see little brass filings in the bottom of the cabinet because the coil stop is basically running on some sort of weird skates when you touch it That boils my blood I remember I think it was 2018 I stood up at Pinball Expo and said, what's the shit show with these? I don't know where they're getting them from. AliExpress? I think they ordered a billion of them. Yeah, on the cheap somewhere. They were probably one cent cheaper.
    74:35
    We've got to live with them. I've only had, this is a weird thing right I've only had that coil stop problem I've had it twice, I had it on my JPLE and a Turtles actually no I did get it on my JPLE but the other game I got it on was I had a Godzilla Pro in the club it happened almost 50 games and I had to replace it they literally just break straight away it's just such a shit show of it's a bit like the balls though right it's been covered by other podcasts but like the balls like damn you just want to replace them straight away I don't even put the current balls in I use Ninja I use them at the club and they're 100% the best balls that you can buy in my view I've got loads of them yeah but like they cost so much to import I mean this thing I try and buy them when I'm out there don't blame you add like 5 kilos to your luggage just with like 20 balls or something yeah absolutely I mean, your game at home, people say, how should I set my game up? Set it how you like it. Absolutely. If it's for you to play at home. Yeah, it's for you to enjoy. If you're putting down, excuse the real London pun here, 10 bags of sand, which in American lingo, it just means 10 grand, let's say that.
    76:01
    It's your money. And be damned what anyone else thinks. If you're going to be enjoying it, if you want to put on five balls, put on five balls. If you want to stick it on a bloody five-inch tilt and it plays like it's on a waterbed, that is your game. Do what you want with it. 100%. I mean, the only thing I say is, just bear in mind, you walk into an arcade and you then go and play the game. It's not going to play how you're a game at home. No. I tend to strike a balance. A lot of my games I was playing at around 6.5. Almost all of them were 6.5 degree on the pitch. I think I've lowered some of them to like six just because I was just getting hammered. Like I wasn't enjoying the game. Some games I've kept high, just like Lord of the Rings, because that game gets any easier. You're going to get bored and just drain the ball eventually.
    76:49
    I mean, I like to have my games high because most of the time I've got tournaments and the games are set high. Not all the time. They will be, yeah. But, you know, like I say, set it up how you want. and you spend 10 grand on a game, you want to get 10 grand's worth of fun from it. Absolutely. There's a few people in the forum where, I've got my game set up like this because I want to become a great tournament player. And then you go to a tournament and they come last, I'm like, I think you might want to rethink that policy. It might be easier, actually, if you learn more of the code and build up, rather than put it to maximum difficulty, just step up it. But not only that, if you lose the ball before you're able to get control of it and learn how to control it, how is that helping you? It's just not. Which goes back to my point about the precision flippers. I'm never going to see a Rick and Moy in a tournament because, damn well, they are rare in this country. How many are there, would you say, like six, seven? I thought they made, well, in the UK, less than 10 for sure. Less than 10. And there were like 750 made worldwide. So the chances of ever seeing that game on location or in a tournament of slim to zero? I actually owned a Rick and Morty for about 10 minutes.
    78:07
    So why did you get rid of it? Well, basically, I'll be honest here, I didn't want to get rid of it. I just had nowhere to put it.
    78:15
    You imagine that's quite a good investment piece, even if you didn't want it. Someone offered me a bit more than I paid for it.
    78:23
    And I thought, you know what, yeah, take it. Because I just had nowhere. I mean, my garage was rammed with pins.
    78:30
    I was actually getting to the point where, you remember, I think I was talking to you about getting a Twilight Zone and a Star Trek. I was actually approaching my neighbour saying, I might need to drop some games at your house. It was like, he was like, oh, great. I love it. Free games. And I was thinking, it's a slippery slope. I mean, look, I loaned out loads of games to friends.
    78:49
    Di's had my arm made and actually she put it off me. Brad's had a few games off of me. People want to borrow games off me. some of them are sitting in storage you know, if they're getting played as long as you're your cat's not pissing on the minor fin I don't really care but I'm quite happy to loan games out if people have got space for them and it also means I can squeeze a few more into the space that I've got so 100% on that but I mean I think yeah, I mean, set your game up so that you enjoy it. In pinball, right, the one thing I learned from pinball most is that if you're not enjoying it, pinball is terrible, right? If you're not able to get something out of it, you know, if you're not getting something out of it and it's not fun, then basically you're just this kind of big meat thing pumping a ball around a wooden playfield and when you you know it's like why would you do that so tell you if you've got bought a game especially if you're a noob set up to be easy learn how to control the ball and then gradually learn it first and build your skill set yeah absolutely and ask you know loads of i mean there's a million videos on youtube about pinball that's a great thing when i was when i was a kid trying to learn like you know i was playing pinball in the arcade when i was 16 17 i didn't know that you could just capture the ball i thought you just whenever the ball hit a flipper you hit the flipper right that was the way i played yeah and i kind of i'm kind of annoyed that you know wait a minute there's other ways of playing this and you know back back in when i was a kid no one played in our arcade there's three or four pinball machines i was the only person i actually played them um and and i kind of kind of annoys me that you know i didn't know i don't know about you but anybody i find is still new to pinball or hasn't played pinball before well sometimes they say to me but it's a game of luck though isn't it yeah or a game of chance I hate that. It triggers me so much. I've had a math teacher tell you that to me, and I'm like, you bloody understand geometry, right? Yeah, I know. I mean, that is kind of in fury. And it's like when you say, there's two things that piss me off at a dinner table. One is pinballs all up. The other one is, and this one you'll get, well, no one actually went to the moon. It was a movie, right? Oh, God, don't.
    81:12
    Someone's as good as the earth is flat. I was actually at dinner recently where someone hit me with that and I basically I was in such a mood I was like right I'm just going to like I'm going to go full anal why you're wrong and it was kind of funny at the end of it and the guy was like okay okay I was wrong but it was kind of it's still a feat of engineering isn't it let's face it that we actually managed to land on the moon with what they had when you look at Most calculators were more powerful than the computers they had by then. When you look at the hand-drawn pictures of stuff, I've got the blueprints for a lot of stuff.
    81:53
    You haven't ever been in my house. You need to come down, man, because I've got this room full of stuff. It's a threat I keep intending to make.
    82:01
    Anyone's welcome to come down. I've got this room full of... I've got an expensive hobby, pinball, and I've got a really expensive hobby collecting NASA stuff, right? Right. This will make some of this stuff... I can only imagine how much that stuff costs, actually. Honestly, if I told you, you'd be like, what? You're a nutter.
    82:23
    It's probably a stupid question, but I imagine you've already got actual space rocks from the moon, right? I do not know. It's illegal to test them. Is it? I didn't know that. I have got meteorites that are allegedly from the moon. Okay. Not sure if they are. Is that because of the radiation or something like that? The US passed a law around the ownership of the moon rocks and lots of countries signed up. I think the UN signed up to it and it's illegal to own them.
    82:55
    They're geological protected or something, right? It's illegal to walk. I find this incredible but it's actually illegal to walk in any of the Apollo landing sites. there's an exclusion zone they're like seen as historical landmarks yeah and also the fact the problem is that if you probably touch any of the thing it would probably just fall apart so they're kind of protected and I think that's a UN like approved agreement with all countries and you know I kind of hope that a rover goes I mean, this is the thing the Indian Yeah, they landed on the south side of the moon, didn't they? Yeah, but they took pictures of I think Apollo 11, Apollo 12 the landing sites, or was it 16, 17 one of the missions and again, it's another obvious thing that you can see people's footprints you can see Like we had to keep proving the world is round and that we landed on the moon, right? For me, it's like the fourth country that isn't the US that has basically said, yeah, this must have happened. So, you know, from my point of view. But, I mean, I'm lucky I've met nine of the 12 people who walked on the moon. So, I kind of know that, you know, meet someone like Gene Cernan. Actually, if you haven't seen the movie, The Last Man on the Moon, it's a documentary about... Mate, go and watch this. It's a documentary about a guy called Gene Cernan. Someone I knew for 10, 15 years. I mean, I'm named after Neil Armstrong, right? And I was lucky enough to meet Neil Armstrong once by pure, pure accident. And the whole Apollo thing has been a big, you know, if I look at my personal career, it got me into engineering, to computer program. I wanted to go to MIT because that's where they wrote all the software. I went to MIT, that's how I met Neil Armstrong. Just loads of things in my life have been guided by this. And when you meet someone, you know, and the technology is one thing, right, but the people around the technology, and I've met flight controllers, designers from Boeing who did all the engine design, you know, when you meet these people and you talk and you see the passion and the capability, and Gene Cernan, the world would be a better place if more people met him. He's just an amazing individual. And actually, he changed my whole – I used to be quite – and I still am, naturally, a cynical person, a kind of a doubter or a disbeliever. Right. But Gene Cernan gave me a gift, and that was the gift of kind of going out and making things happen.
    85:48
    You know, I was kind of – like 20 years ago, I was kind of one of these people that basically would just laugh at everyone doing a shit job. and I still do don't get me wrong right but I'd never be a person that would go out and do something like like the UK Open I would never be a person um that would go out and do that it just wasn't something I would do but um what's a good segue let's let's talk about UK Open because obviously that's something that you've helped well I didn't say you helped you have pioneered so yeah I mean look where I mean my whole still I've still got like a bunch of stuff I've got more t-shirts and I know what to do with one of them. I've got trophies arriving. I've got banners arriving. The UK Open team, we've got this core team, are all getting stuff organised and thinking about stuff.
    86:37
    Yeah, it's starting. You've got Keith Elwyn coming as well, haven't you? Keith Elwyn's coming. That's pretty good. All our dignitaries coming. Rich Mallett, he's a glorious guy. Levy, Neyman, one of our great friends from New York's coming. Jeff Teolis has come in. We've got Johannes Ostermeyer from Germany, number one player in the world, I think, right now, or he's the world champion right now. I can't remember which. But it's going to be a real battle. Escher Lefkoff, Travis Meury, another great player, a great guy from Triple Drain podcast.
    87:12
    Just a great selection of people, a load of other Europeans. Peter Anderson, last year's winner, has come in. A couple of guys from Australia, believe it or not, are coming over. Okay. You know, a few folks from Canada. It feels like a really international platform, and we're really excited about it. It's good because it puts the UK on the map, right? That's nice. Yeah, I mean, look, a lot, you know, yeah, it's great to put the UK on the map, but, you know, I kind of, you know, my goal is everyone comes, has a great time, goes home, and says good things, right? That's the goal. And we have a couple of good games. You know, we had a great, we had a massive game on Dattodon last year that was just epic.
    87:52
    Are you going to be streaming, I'm assuming, and everything like that? Yeah, we'll be streaming it. Mark Patner is coming over, another great friend of mine, Backhand Pinball, so twitch.tv slash Backhand Pinball. Actually, he's streaming a whole bunch of stuff this weekend from, there's a big show in northeast US and Massachusetts.
    88:12
    Actually, I think it's called Pinfest, funnily enough. Okay. And, yeah, he's streaming from there. Mark's like a workaholic. I mean, he was just running around like a crazy guy last year. But, yeah, we got some improvements. We got a few more players. We're a bit more organized on certain things. Some things I wish we were a bit more organized on, but you can't do much until you get to the venue. Everyone knows what – like, when we did it last year, it was my vision in my head. Now that everybody in the UK has seen it, you know, the people in the team are easier. It's easier for them to help and make decisions. Because last year, I was like, hey, what should we do about this? I'm like, oh, just decide something. It was a bit like, but the team are, you know, this is the thing. Put on an event like this, a team sport, without the team, you just can't do it. And you saw it at Pinfest last week, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, I've got to say, yeah, I mean, the staff there were so damn helpful, especially when I came back late, you know, after my little errand picking up Rick and Morty. They were still there packing the games away. They work hard. And I imagine your staff are going to be the same, right? Yeah, it's a big organization. These are not light machines. Yeah, I mean, we're moving... Getting those moved around is a pain in the ass. We're moving 80 games. That's so much, man. We've got five kind of 60-inch screens. We've got T-shirts. We've got... You've got, like, lighting to do as well, I imagine. I say that, you know, the worst thing to move, we've got, you know, those things, those rope things that you build corridors out of. You know, you've got... Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got them. They weigh a freaking ton. They're a pain in the ass, right? stuff like that. Actually, we've got a good crew. We're working with a bunch of guys who are helping us on the logistics side, which hopefully will make it a bit easier for us.
    89:58
    And we're super excited about it. We'll do a bit more as we get closer to it, maybe talk about some of the players to watch the next time. But, yeah, I mean, it's starting to feel real.
    90:12
    Did you manage to get a Venom, by the way, in the end? Nah. actually no they haven't started they've already shipped a handful of pros and that's to dealers and shows actually is that because they're switching factories I think that is definitely a factor but also the other thing I've heard this from a few distributors in the US I was talking to a few distributors look can you sell it to me and send it to my Florida address and it will magically appear in the UK but actually the feedback is Venom is the worst seller Stern have had since Black Knight I did get the feeling that it was a bit of a Black Knight kind of level of success because it's not really a theme unfortunately that speaks to many and I think a lot of the play field was seen as it's a bit empty for the price tag so on the pro side yeah I mean I don't know what premium LEs will go like but the feedback I've had is Venom is not selling, no one's interested in it.
    91:17
    Partly, I think, also, we mentioned this before, they put out Jurassic Park 30 years, which the week after they announced Venom just feels crazy to me. Yeah. It's cannibalising your own deals, isn't it? You're going to buy an L.E. of Venom, but all of a sudden an L.E. Jurassic Park comes along for the same price, and you know that that's a top-notch game. It's kind of a no-brainer, but also, I think, you know, all the rumors about Jaws.
    91:47
    Yeah. You know, you've got Jaws, you've got Pulp Fiction, you've likely got another Jersey Jack game coming out before the end of the year.
    91:56
    There's, you know, rumors about Pinball Brothers got a game coming out. There's, you know, a lot of opportunities to spend your money. And do you want to risk it on a theme that you're, and there's a new Conan, it's a family out. you know i i you know look brian harry he's no idiot when it comes to making pinball machines so i think my take is um it it will be a you know it is a good game um it's a case of um waiting i mean i actually i actually did get a chance to play it when i was in the u.s i got a couple of games on it but the code is the code is so early it's really hard to take a view on it but one thing I'll say is it's a fast game. If you like fast-flowing games, you're going to love this, right?
    92:42
    The thing I worry about is for me, pinball is all about ball and flipper. And if you have too much stuff that takes it away from the ball and flipper, like all this role-playing stuff that they talk about in Venom, that worries me a little bit. Again, I'm not opposed to it, but how are you tying that together with what's on the playfield and what's happening with the ball in front of you? Yeah. It's really important. Because that's the thing, right? From what I've seen it can make bosses easier the more higher the lift difficult you get with um sorry the higher your characters get in terms of its level but that kind of simplistic just like it's a bit like going back to the early days of like a game like diablo right and you go right i'm gonna go into act two and my character isn't that strong i'll stay in act one i'll build up a bit and then i'll go back into act two it there isn't really any skill involved other than just grind just grind exactly Yeah.
    93:33
    You know, that's for me the difference between strategy and role-playing sometimes, which is strategy as you're doing, role-playing as you're grinding. And I have to say I hate grinding. Yeah, grinding, I mean, like any kind of game you play with an RPG element where it's got a heavy amount of grind in it, like World of Warcraft, something like that. Yeah, I just had my ass with that. It can really grind on you, pun intended. I mean, back in the Apple days, we wrote a hack so that you could grind automatically just so you could build up your characters. because this was on... You're probably going to say something like RuneScape. Wizardry, Bane of the Cosmic Forge. There's an old game for it. That's an old one. I thought you were going to say RuneScape, but that's even older. But this was a great game on the Apple II. It was amazing. I used to play it for hours as a kid. But I think we're out of time, Scott. Yeah. I think we covered most of what we wanted to cover. A few things that we probably didn't quite get to, but great that you got Rick and Morty. Enjoy it. It's a funny game. Scott Dinesi is a great guy and I think he's going to be at Pinball Expo as well, in fact he will be because he lives near it Well, if you see him, you can tell him from me I really enjoy the game and it's a keeper for me to be honest, it's taken my top one list I actually enjoy it that much Eric, the guy who did code on it he's actually the guy who wrote the code for Cactus Canyon Continued He's a really great guy, on Pinside he's EP the Geek, really, really good guy, actually during COVID we played in a virtual reality golf league with the Facebook Oh, with the Quest. Yeah, those guys were great, I was terrible but there was a lot of fun, they were very welcome but yeah, so Luke, wrapping up there's a couple of events coming up that we mentioned Pinfest, it's our UK Open will be Pinfest next year and actually we'll cover a little bit about that then I'm actually off to the US to play in the New York Pinball Tournament and I'm actually going to be in the US for three months three weeks, three or four weeks so we'll probably record three or four months, you've got a good holiday mostly with work but we'll probably record the next one from the US, at least on my side. But, yeah, Luke, it was great to see you at Pinfest, Scott. Yeah, great to see you. And, you know, enjoy. You know, I'm looking forward to...
    96:08
    You did forget to say, because we ran out of time, but what game did you get this month? Because you said you got... Ah, yeah, sorry, let me very quickly. So, I have actually... Did I mention Dragon Fist last time? I can't remember if I did. I don't know if you did or not, actually. I've got three new games then. So I've got Stars, which is an old Stern – these are actually all old Stern games. I've got Stars, which is an old Stern Electronics game. I've got Dragon Fist, which is a super rare, super amazing, super brilliant old Stern Electronic games. And I've just picked up a beautiful big game, which is another Stern Electronics old game. and I think I've probably completed my collection of Stern Electronics old games because I don't think I've got any more but yeah, so two of them are coming from Europe, they're on the way one is about to be airlifted to me, I'm trying to get it into the airlifted? Yeah, I'm getting it air freighted over. Jesus, that can't be cheap It's actually not as expensive as I thought Just to ship a playfield from my house to Australia cost me £320 like literally I can't imagine what I'll pay for your old machine Next time I'll tell you what, next time let me break down the whole invoice for getting a game from the US to here because there's a lot of people Yeah, definitely be interested in that Let me tell you, importing a Stern game from the US will not save you money unless you're buying lots of them and you have a deal on you've got some sort of deal Definitely think that would be a good subject to broach on next podcast I've imported loads of games both from Europe, from the US an alien port one from Australia but I kind of bottled out of it because it was crazy money but yeah we'll talk about that next time, Scott it's been a pleasure as always look again if you've got anything you want to talk to us about pick up on our Facebook page, the Great British Pinball Podcast we'll probably be back just before the UK opens so we'll do a quick UK Open preview maybe the week before UK Open and we can tell us where we've got to also because of Covid Scott's behind on my Theatre of Magic that I'm getting it's too hot for those of you watching the camera you'll see the sweat dripping off me at the moment it's like 30 plus degrees in the UK at the moment which is way too hot for British people the weather has been nuts actually I've got AC but it's been struggling to keep it cool because it's so hot. But, yeah, everyone, enjoy pinball, and we will see you next time. Goodbye from me. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye.