Hey, we must throw in a radio top cast. Swam is this Norm and Shaggy. Hey, this is Curb and even hot Russian chicks love to listen to Norm and Shaggy on Top Cast. Hey, this is Oksana. You're listening to Top Cast with Norm and Shaggy. You're listening to Top Cast, this old pinball's online radio. For more information, visit them anytime. Anytime. www.marvin3m.com. TopCast. Okay, welcome to another edition of TopCast. We're doing a special Sunday afternoon show. We've got a real, real special guest who I'd like to introduce in just a second. Sorry for the last minute, but sometimes these people are very, very busy, and it's hard to get them scheduled. And this is one gentleman that was willing to do this live, meaning that we can take callers towards the end part of the show if you've got any questions for them, which is really nice. Special guest. Special guest. Special guest. Special guest. Okay, we've got on the line, we've got a special guest. Our special guest is Todd McCulloch, former NBA star who played for the Philadelphia 76ers and is now the color commentary guy for, what's the radio station that you work for, Todd? Predominantly 610 WIP is where the games are broadcast, but I actually work for the Sixers themselves. Very nice, very nice. And now, why don't we start with college and, you know, basketball and pinball. because these two things kind of intertwine, right? They do. I've always loved pinball, and I've loved basketball for quite some time, and they intertwined. I played on the junior national team in Canada, and we don't exactly have a U.S. Dream Team budget. We would take school buses to games and lived in dorms that were not, the beds were, of course, not long enough for me. There was no TV, phone, and nothing. So when we were done with our couple hours of practice, there was a lot of time killing. So I found the rec room of this college that we were staying at, and they had a video game, and they had a whitewater with basically all the lights burned out. But I figured this was better than whatever I got going on, which I had nothing going on. So I played whitewater and didn't know how to play the game because this was the first time I'd ever seen it with all the lights burned out. and for you that are familiar with the game, you aim for the flat, like any other pinball machine, you aim for the flashing lights and advance the raft, but I had no idea what I was doing. I knew I could lock a couple of balls and get some, get multiball, and that's about all I was trying to do, and so I fell in love with the game, and every summer I would go back and it would still be there, and so I played it for three or four consecutive summers and convinced myself that I was never going to get tired of the game, and some, when I When I had a basement and a little bit of spending money, I'd buy myself a whitewater. Other times I'd be coming home from basketball practice and I'd want to get a Slurpee. So I'd stop at 7-Eleven, and a lot of 7-Elevens in the day would have pinball machines. The one that was closest to me had a Whirlwind, so I'd get my Slurpee and go over and put my money in Whirlwind. There were more work plates on that one, so I kind of knew a little bit what I was doing. I fell in love with that game. I used to bowl and there was a pinball at the Bowling Alley and I used to roller skate and there was a pinball there. So when I signed with the New Jersey Nets and my wife and I bought a home, I found a gentleman who asked him what he did and he said, well, I work for Betts and we have pinball machines and pool tables and things like that. I said, oh man, I've been looking. I want to get big water and I want to get a pinball and I want to get a Jurassic Park. And he said, well, I can help you out with those. and sooner rather than later they were delivered, and there was nothing I wanted to do except pinball. I still had that. Now, we should state a couple things. First off, what position do you play? I'm a center. Numerically, they take positions one through five, five being the center. And it tends to be a bit of a blur these days with seven-footers that can shoot threes like Dirk Nowitzki and others, and I was kind of a true center, which means you play mostly with your back to the basket. You don't stray too far from either hoop. And what was your height? 5'24", 6'11", and 13'16", to be precise. I round up and call my footer. If you're a footer, you're a 7-footer. You're a 7-footer. I've stood next to Todd, and it's like our nickname for Todd amongst me and a couple of friends is the gentle giant. I mean, I'm not exactly tall I'd say I'm average Yeah, I'm probably an average height Oh man I mean, when you walk in my house Every doorway It's like an instinct You have to duck And basements, I guess Are only going to be so much worse So when you You were going to Canada School in Canada Or school in the United States in college? I was going to school in the United States. I accepted a scholarship to the University of Washington in Seattle, and then in the summers, I would go to Canada and train and compete with the Canadian national team, but I went to a Pac-10 school, University of Washington in Seattle, for five years, the first year being a redshirt year, kind of a training year, and then I competed for four years, and then was drafted at the conclusion of my collegiate career in the second round by Philadelphia 76ers in 1999. Now, when you were in the United States, were you or were you not eating Slurpees in the U.S.? Was I not drinking Slurpees in the United States? Yes. Much less frequent. I'll give a little bit of a plug here. I grew up in Winnipeg, which is the Slurpee capital of the world. And since they started actually charting Slurpees consumed per capita, Winnipeg has been a champ seven years running. So I don't know what it is, but the whole city, most of the city, six, seven hundred thousand people are addicted to Slurpees, so much so that an amateur documentarian in North Carolina, who's also a Slurpee addict, I haven't met too many Slurpee addicts in the United States, where I can give you several hundred in Winnipeg or across Canada. He decided to do a documentary on why Winnipeg is such a crazy place for Slurpees. So I am such a nut, and I definitely prefer getting Slurpees. The reason that I found out later that Canadians do not add a pressurization element, they don't add air to the mixture. So there's just syrup and just CO2, and it comes out thicker, wetter. In the U.S., they tend to add air, so it comes out light and frothy and foamy, and that, to me, is not as satisfying. So when we built the game room in Seattle, it was one of my lifelong dreams to have access to a slurping machine. and so I took the necessary steps and made sure I got a Canadian machine, and now I have a Canadian slurping machine running Coke and Sprite right now in my game room. Yeah, I kind of knew that. I set you up for that question pretty good. I figured most of them were going to be set up. Yeah, yeah. So now you're also a pretty good pinball player. You competed in PAPA last year, didn't you? I competed in PAPA last year and the previous year, and I'm looking forward to competing again. I finished 17th the first year in C Division, which is just out of advancing to the Sunday Finals. And then this past year I finished 7th or 8th, somewhere in there. I had a good qualifying score and didn't do so well as the Finals won. But I like playing pinball. I like competing, and it's just fun to meet some other collectors and just play around with the strategy. Yeah, I should tell you how we met. I mean, not you, obviously, you know, but I should tell our listening audience how we met. It was, you know, I run the Marvin3m.com slash fix.htm site, and on there there is, you know, I've got subpages on like, you know, EM Arcade Games and Wood Rails, Williams Wood Rails, Gottlieb Wood Rails, and Pitching Bats, and, you know, various other informational pages, not just repair pages. and I guess you had seen one of the pages and heard about and also saw Marvin3m.com, Marvin's place, and I just kind of got this email out of the blue, hi, my name is Todd McCulloch, you know, because, you know, frankly, I'm not really, you know, I don't really follow the NBA, so I didn't really know who you were, but you said we're coming in town to play the Detroit Pistons on such and such date, you know, would you mind if, you know, I stopped by Marvin's, and maybe I could meet and talk and play some pinball and some other games. I thought that was, at first I was pretty prepared to just hit delete. I kind of thought it was just a joke. I didn't think it was for real. It just, I don't know, you sounded too down to earth to me. It was like, because it's funny because I'm sure I told you this story before the current coach, who was your coach with the 76ers, right? He was with the 76ers. Right, right. And was our coach for the Pistons, Larry Brown. And I got a call from a lady once who said, I've got a pinball machine that's broken, can you fix it? And I said, sure, what's the name of the game? And she said, I don't know, let me call you back. So she calls back five minutes later and says, it's a Michael Jordan Space Jam. Can you fix it? And I said, well, what's wrong with it? She says, I don't know. Just show up at this address and come fix this game. So I'm like, okay. And I drove out to this house, and it was a real nice house. And a maid opened the door and let me in and showed me where the game was. She couldn't speak any English. You know, I fixed the game, and on the wall there's all these posters of, like, Jordan and kind of this old guy, you know, with, you know, they've got their arms around each other, you know, and all this Michael Jordan stuff. And, you know, it turned out it was Larry Brown's house. You know, they were not, they didn't want to even admit whose house it was, but that's whose it was. when I got the email from you, it was real down to earth and like, you know, hey, this is who I am, this is what I'm doing, and, you know, let's go play some pinball, which I thought was really cool. That's how I knew you weren't a huge NBA fan, because along with those Michael Jordan jerseys and pink down stickers, you had an E-Wing jersey down there, and I was like, E-Wing? Oh, that's Patrick Ewing, and only somebody who didn't call the NBA wouldn't know that it's Ewing, not E-Wing. No, it's E-Wing. I'm sure it's E-Wing. I think everybody has perpetuated the mispronunciation of it. It's really Ewing. Actually, I have never heard anyone mispronounce Ewing in my entire life, except you. Thank you. Thank you very much. You continue to be special. Well, you know, I think you've got to excel at everything you do. You had the wrong emphasis on the syllable. Exactly. But anyway, so how many games do you have in your collection now? Oh, somewhere a little over 100, maybe 110. Okay, I know for a fact that's not correct. Because you sat in my living room one day in front of the computer and we inventoried your games. And you had over 200 games. No, I did not. You checked your inventory again. You were so wrong. Is your wife listening? Is that what the problem is? You just don't want to fess up because she might hear? You were wrong. No, no, I'm pretty sure. I'm going to go check that Excel sheet. Yeah, go check the spreadsheet. Because you were in absolute denial. Wrong record. We're broadcasting to the entire Cornell community. You were in absolute denial. I mean, it was unbelievable. You know, we're writing it up. You know, how many we at? Okay, we're at that number. How many we at now? And I could just see your eyes getting bigger and bigger and bigger, like, darn, I bought a lot of games. I didn't know I was a three-digit collector. You are a three-digit collector, big time. And you have a home in Seattle and one in Philly, and you kind of have your games spread out between the two? That's correct. Most of my pinball machines are here in Philadelphia. Anything I couldn't fit down a narrow stairwell down here, anything a little bit bigger, a little odd-shaped, went to Seattle where I had a couple of doors and an open walk-out basement that I could fit that stuff in. That's kind of how it started. If it was narrow enough, like a pinball machine, it stayed here. If it was odd-shaped, it went out there. That's kind of how I made my decisions. And you did an expansion to your Seattle home, right? Just for games, right? Yeah, we rented a room in the basement, so we met with the builder of our home and talked to him about building a little game room next to it. And so my wife and I have a media room where we can watch movies, and then there's some 30s machines in that, and then there's kind of a main floor that just has one garage door where you can get big stuff in, and then there's a smaller room in the basement where I have some pitch and bats and some other things that are, pinball-shaped cabinet. So there's a few areas to play. And you've also started to expand your Philadelphia home too, right? Yeah, the basement's pretty full here, so I've got a friend that's a contractor. Currently our garage is detached, and there was an upper floor there that was just mainly for storage, and so we decided to finish that area to give me a little bit more real estate to work with with some other games that are here in storage. And how many square feet are you going to be adding there? Not that much. It's basically a three-car garage above that that's being done, but it's such a steep roof that I'm losing a whole lot of space because of how steep the roof is. So I don't know, a couple, I don't know. How many square feet do you think is up there? It's not very much. We're probably looking at 14 games, something like that. Right, right. Now let's talk about your collection because it's not just pinball. And you don't really, I mean, you have a multi-cade, but that's pretty, and some driving games. And that's pretty much all your video stuff, right? Yeah, I've got a Namco Panic Park that's a lot of fun and a Star Wars vector game. But not a lot of video, which is ironic because growing up in the late 70s, early 80s, and not being much of a pinball player myself, I played a whole lot of video games and that was what I did. And so, like a lot of other people that either went from video to pinball, I was one of them. I just found them more entertaining. So I like video games a lot. I just haven't, I feel like with my Ultra Kade, I can knock out a lot of those titles I used to play growing up. Right. So now you also collect, though, aside from pinball and a couple video games, electromechanical arcade games. That is the pre-1976 style of arcade games. Is that correct? Yeah, that's correct. I thought I was going to be done with pinball, and then I came across your site and all the wonderful pictures and information about all the interesting stuff that dated back to the late 30s. And so at first I felt like, you know, even though I grew up liking video games, I wasn't really high on collecting a lot of them. I just assumed that the, well, first of all, I didn't realize all of the electromechanical marvels that were out there. I was born in 1976, and growing up in Winnipeg, there was arcades with video games and pinball, but I didn't ever have boardwalks or places like that that might have some historical games hanging around. It wasn't until I noticed your site that I saw some helicopter games, and I'd never seen a big ball bowler before. I'd never even seen a puck bowler before, so there was a whole slew of things that looked very interesting on your site. You kind of just went out and bought a lot of stuff from what I hear. I did go through a period of mass acquisition where I just kind of liked the bowling games and I liked the baseball games and I liked the basketball games and I liked the games and I liked the shooting games. There wasn't a whole lot of things that I didn't like. I not crazy about older electromechanical pinball machines I have a couple of them but I just didn grow up in that area and don have a nostalgic tie to a lot of the titles or that artwork But I do like animated games things like Nags and Knockout and things like that And as far as wood rails and wedge heads, you have a Nags, I assume, right? A Nags, Knockout, Raceway, and that's pretty much it from the electromechanical pinball standpoint. And just for our listeners, just in case they don't know, So Todd means 1950 Gottlieb knockout, which is their classic wood rail single player pinball with two boxers in the center of the play field that actually, you know, try and hit each other. And then one guy goes down for a knockout and a referee actually counts him out. And the whole purpose of the game is to try and get as many knockouts as possible. There's actually a knockout counter right on the playfield for different lamp inserts. They go up to, I think, 20 knockouts or something you win replays at certain levels. And Nags is a 1960 Williams wood rail that is a horsey game. The whole backbox has six horses in it that actually go down the track. And it has another cool feature. In the center of the playfield, it has a turntable, literally like a turntable for a record player. I'd say it's probably 10 inches in diameter with 6 pop bumpers on the rotating turntable and each one is numbered 1 through 6 which associates to the 6 horses in the backbox and you're trying to advance your horse which would be randomly picked by the game at the start of the game and by hitting your lit pop bumper you're advancing your horse and that's the whole idea is to get your horse across the finish line before the other horses are across the finish line Raceway is a 1963 Midway game a metal rail but it's got a unique animated set of kind of like larger, like Corgi style cars they're not actually by Corgi, they're actually an English Maserati and a Ferrari and they're called Dinky cars and they actually go around a track and instead of standard pinball scoring it has the number of laps that each player has moved his car around the track Axle bumpers are worth a certain distance each car moves on the track. So those are real animated and interesting pinball machines, and I completely understand why you would collect those because they're the ones that attracted me, too. I have those three titles also. Great games, great games. And yours are all working and restored? Yes, they are all in fairly good condition. Not perfect, but good enough to enjoy. Okay. Okay, we're going to, Ty, we're going to take just a little break. I'm going to run an ad just so we can rest our voices for a second. So hang on just a second, okay? We'll be right back with Ty McCulloch of the 76ers. Top Gas is brought to you by Pinball Life. Give your pinball machine new life with parts from Pinball Life. We ship pinball parts worldwide. Pinball Life is located in the great city of Chicago. Their phone number is 773-202-8798. We have an open-door Ryan Policky, and you're welcome to call us with your questions and concerns. 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Central Time, Monday through Friday. Their website is at pinballlife.com. Pinball Life. No hassles, just the parts you need and best. Topguest is brought to you by Marco Specialties, your pinball parts superstore. Visit their website at marcospecialties.com. You can search for parts by game name, game make, or part number. Marco Specialties was founded in 1985 and is headquartered in Lexington, South Carolina. They specialize in pinball parts, supplies, books, and anything pinball. Marco has been online since 1996 and is the web's oldest and largest pinball parts supplier. Their new 12,000 square foot distribution center services 25,000 customers in over 50 countries. Feel free to call Marco Specialties at 803-957-5500. ParkRoseSpecialties.com. Special guests. Special guests. Special guests. Special guests. Okay, we're back with Todd McCulloch of the 76ers, who now is the color commentary guy for their radio broadcast. And we're just talking about Todd's EM arcade collection. Now, Todd, you also collect some gun games too, right? Yeah, I like gun games. I've got a shootout by Chicago Coin, Casco Bank Robbers. You don't have Casco Air Fighter, do you? What's Air Fighter? Air Fighter is another Casco electromechanical thing. And what it is, it's got a mechanical... Like when you look at it, the screen looks like a video screen, but it's not. and it has like a silhouette of a, you know, sort of like an F-16 fighter that's flying across the screen and then you've got like a joystick and a fire stick and you're trying to steer your craft to get them in these crosshairs and then you press a button and it does light animation with red lights, you know, whether you hit, you know, it's like you're flying. It's like a flight simulator, like a dogfight flight simulator, jet simulator. It's pretty cool. You know, a lot of the Casco games are really, really interesting. I know you have an Untouchables, too, which is actually not a gun game. It's a driving game. Because I read about your article. Well, I guess it wasn't really your article, but the article in Game Room Magazine where you had a guy restoring that game for you. Yeah, I read the first article. I thought he did a great job on the horse racing game, and then I haven't got to this month's issue yet that's supposed to feature Untouchables, so I'm anxiously awake. I know Kevin did a great job restoring the games, and I thought he did a really good job writing about it in the last issue. Now, how did you find Kevin? Kevin was referred to me by my friend Don Williams, who unfortunately passed, and we lost a very nice member of this going-up community. Yes, I knew Don. Don was also a former rock star. Did you know that, Todd? I had an idea. Don did not tell me that. Yes, yes. I forget the band he played in, but if I mentioned the name to you, I'm sure you would have heard of it. He is a former rock star, and they had a top ten hit during the 70s. That's very cool. Yeah, he was actually a really good guy. He contacted me when he was restoring his Genco two-player basketball, and he had a lot of questions because I had reproached some of the parts for that game, and I gave him some of that stuff. I kind of developed a friendship with him, too. I think he is somebody that we're all going to miss. It really is a shame that he did pass. But anyways, I don't want to dwell on that. That depresses me. But anyways, so what do you like? It's funny, as a Canadian, you know, where guns are not real prevalent like they are here in American society, it's funny that you're drawn to gun games. I do like them. I'm not very on guns in society, but fortunately I've been able to separate myself and enjoy the gun games for what they are. I've got an Ambush, which is Williams, I believe, and that's a lot of fun to play. That's mindless fun on our show. Kind of like a Mr. Top Gun quick draw, you have to out-draw him. Right. Chicago coin trap shoot, which is cool. shoot the bear and coon hunt. So I'd like to, my father was in the RCMP, so he was in law enforcement encounter for quite some time. And so for part of that, depending on whether he was walking the beat or later a pilot, he would always have a firearm at his side. And so he wanted us to be responsible, you know, to be able to handle a gun. And so we would do target practice out at the cabin with a .22 or he had a bow and we'd do archery. So I'm familiar with guns and I like doing target practice, and that's kind of what the shooting games represent, is some of those fond memories of shooting G.I. Joe guys, the tree stump at the cabin. That's funny because when I grew up, you know, I don't, I'm not really into guns, but when I grew up I used to go to a YMCA camp, and I was like, you know, I always shot the .22s, and I really enjoyed it, and I really became a good marksman doing it. But then after I got, you know, too old to go to the camp anymore, that was like the last time I, you know, I touched any sort of firearm. And, but as a kid, I did like to collect firecrackers and blow up the GI Joe guys. That was, I loved to tape them to the firecrackers and blow them up. That was like my favorite thing. I'm kind of sick and twisted in that way. As you, I'm sure you've noticed. As the listeners know. Yes, as they all well know. So, you know, yeah, some of those gun games, like, I mean, what's your favorite electric mechanical gun game? Probably the Ambush. I like, kind of like how modern it became. I mean, I think it was the last EM gun game, and I just like being able to hold down on the trigger and just see the targets just get riddled with virtual bullets. So, like that one, I actually do have a twin rifle, which I became, It seemed like it was recommended on your site as one of the top ones where the targets pop up very quickly. And I really like head-to-head competitions. All these games seem to get old, but they get old a lot less quickly when you're competing against somebody and you can talk trash or win, lose, draw. So I like the games that are head-to-head and shooting and bowling. Multiplayer games are something I'm trying to focus on. Yeah, the ambush was 1973. That was Williams' last electromechanical gun game. And we featured that game in our Game of the Week a week or two ago on our show. And it is just mindless fun because it's an automatic weapon with recoil. So it really feels like you're shooting something. And it's just mindless fun. I mean, it's just, I love that game. But I'm a mindless idiot, so it goes together. quite well with my personality. Oh, mindless fun. Yeah, mindless fun. Twin Rifle is a great, Twin Rifle is a, what, 1971 Chicago coin twin gun game. So you've got actually two guns and two players, and what happens is the target pops up, and then it's whoever can get it, shoot that target, get on it, get aimed, and shoot it, is the one that gets the points, and the other person gets nothing. So yeah, it's a competitive thing. You can play Twin Rifle by yourself, too, But it's not nearly as fun, of course, as playing against somebody. And, you know, since you're a basketball guy, I'm sure you've always been very, very competitive. I'm sure that's part of your personality. Part of my makeup, quietly competitive. I like to win and then just keep my pride inside. So, you know, would you get any good NBA? Now, you were on the Nets when the Nets went to the finals against the team that Shaq was on, right? Yeah, the team that Shaq was on was a little team called the Los Angeles Lakers. That's a little team. Not much history there, so I can see how you could forget a team like that. I wasn't sure if he was with the Heat or the Lakers, so I didn't want to embarrass myself. That's what I'm here for. Yeah, that's no problem. So what was it like playing against him? Not fun. It was fun and not fun at the same time. If you want to measure yourself and see how inadequate you are as an NBA center, he's probably the guy to go up against. He was pretty near the top of his prime at the time that I was trying to handle him in the NBA Finals, and it just did not go well for me or for my team. He's a phenomenal basketball player. He's a very nice guy. He's very entertaining and competitive and athletically gifted and genetically gifted. So it was a lot of fun to play against him. And I guess things just didn't go my team's way. What was the final outcome as far as win and loses in that series? Four wins like hers, zero wins for the New Jersey Knights. And you started every one of those four games? Yeah, I did start in the finals. and we had a couple of different centers, and I started, and we all tried to use our fouls against him and put him to the line, where he's traditionally not a great free-throw shooter, but for some reason he chose that series to average 74% from the free-throw line. So we tried to stop him with techniques that other teams have used more successfully, and he went and hit three out of four free-throws against us. I can say that if he shoots that well, then he's virtually unstoppable, just because you're not going to stop him in regular game action. You mean you really can't defend against him? You do your best, and most guys you play against, even other 7-foot, 300-pound guys, if you are in a spot and he bumps into you, then he's got to make a move. He has to make an adjustment, pivot the other way, because you have that spot with Shaq. Whether you know where he's going or not, he tends to just go through you, and so in some ways the rules don't apply. So in some ways, he goes through you and you're standing there and there's really nothing you can do. In other ways, you get away with a lot more because you can push and shove and play him more physically than when else you would. So he gets away with a lot. The people defending him get away with a lot, and he makes it very difficult for the officials to referee him just because of how special he is. He's the only player I can think of, at least in my era, where he's just very hard to fish you because of how big and strong he is and nimble. But, I mean, isn't that, you know, if your feet are set and he plows through you, that's an offensive penalty, isn't it? In some cases it is, and some guys either get knocked down on their backside. Most guys aren't going to get knocked down, so you can try and flop and fly and then try to accentuate what's just happened to contact. And the referees may hit him with an offense foul. If you don't flop that way, then you basically just go back a couple of steps. And that may be as obvious to the referee that you had that position and it just ends up being contact. That's part of the game. And so I've never really been a flopper, somebody that tries to draw charges. If you get them, great. If you don't, then he's standing there in front of the rim with a wide-open dunk. So my technique did not pay off. But it was fun, right? It was fun to be on a team so well to win the Eastern Conference and to go to the finals. It's a great experience. It would have been nicer to compete and win a couple of games. But the Lakers, at least the previous year, I had been a member of the Philadelphia 76ers, less of a member with playing less minutes. But at that time, that same Lakers team had not lost a playoff game. They'd swept through everybody, and they were expected to roll right through the 76ers. Well, we took game one, and that kind of added a whole new dimension. Now with the Nets, it was another story where we didn't get any wins, and the outcome didn't seem to be in doubt, although we did have some close games and just couldn't get over the edge. Interesting. I love these stories, even though they're not pinball-related, but I still think they're really cool. I mean, did you meet the guy after the game? I mean, you said he's a really nice guy. I mean, have you had, like, social interaction with him, too? Well, at the end of the game, the opposing team, the away team, will head to the bus area and jump on the bus, and then we'll get into our cars. And at the time, I had a Porsche. I'm not sure how I fit into it. That was Shaq's question. As I was opening up the door to get into my Porsche to drive home, he said, what are you doing? I said, can you get in my car and drive home? He said, well, that's not your car, so why are you getting into it? I said, yes, it is. And so he was basically just making a comment about how small the car was and I shouldn't be driving, just kind of joking around. And then the very next day or two days later, we played again. And in the jump circle, we're about to get ready to tip off game three of the finals. And he says, be careful. And I'm thinking, be careful. Is he going to beat me up tonight? Or is he going to believe that what's going to happen? He said, no, be careful driving home in a tin can. I don't want you to get hurt. So I found him to have quite a nice personality. There was a game earlier in the season where I was posting up and I kind of threw up this crazy left-hand hook that he defended well and somehow it went in. He came over and said that was a nice shot I said I sorry it never happen again I sorry We were getting interviewed of course media days very crazy during the NBA Finals There was lots of media from lots of countries, and they had just finished interviewing Shaquille O'Neal about his matchup with me, and I don't think he was all that concerned that he was going to get the better of me. And so they considered this to be one of the most lopsided center matchups in NBA history. and so they brought that up with me and of course I didn't think of it in time and I wish I had, but they had come to me and said, Todd, we consider this to be one of the most lopsided center matchups in history and how do you think this is going to play out? If I had been thinking, I would have said, you know what, Shaq is a talented player and he's going to do just fine in this series and I don't think you should sell him short. He's going to hold up fine. But you didn't think that one, huh? No, I didn't come up with that at the time that was necessary and it doesn't mean a whole lot now. Whereas thousands of people would have heard it then, several dozen may hear it now. Yeah, there you go. You had another kind of similar story, a Michael Jordan story along that line too, didn't you? Yeah, when I entered the league in 1999, Michael Jordan had retired, I believe, maybe for the second time. He was no longer in the league, and that was sad for me. I had always admired Michael Jordan growing up as a basketball player like most kids. I couldn't the way he played, but I wanted to at least play against him, and it looked like that window had passed. And then when he decided to come back and play with the Washington Wizards in my third year in the NBA, I was thrilled. And so they often, almost all NBA teams play exhibition games, and they tend to do them in cities that aren't NBA cities to expand the game and give some other fans a chance to see us in action. So Michael Jordan's first game back from that present retirement was with the Wizards. And often during exhibition games, they'll ask one of the players to address the crowd and thank them for coming. And it's a little bit more informal than a regular season game, although they do that sometimes now. And so they gave me the microphone up here, and Director gave it to me. And I told the crowd that I was glad that they came out to support NBA basketball. This was in Carolina. I think it was Greenville. And I told them that they were in for a treat, that there was two very special teams at the time. this was with the Nets and this was against the Washington Wizards so the crowd was pretty hyped to be able to see Jordan come back and I said you're going to see two very special teams and one very special player tonight who I believe is making his first trip to Greenville Carolina to play basketball assuming, making the assumption that the fans would know that Michael Jordan had probably never played there seeing as it's not a regular city so they applauded and Michael Jordan I think he raised his hand and when the applause died down I said you know, thank you for your applause. This is my first trip here to a beautiful city. I hope you enjoy the matchup. I've implied that somehow I was going to be this special player that they were going to see, and the crowd got up to the chuck. I had my mouthpiece in, and Michael Jordan came over before the tip and said he said I liked that. That was good. So I've got my mouthpiece out. Michael Jordan, talk to me. So, yeah, and then I, unfortunately, I have some nerve problems that caused me to retire from the game of basketball, and ironically, Michael Jordan's last game, his finale, happened to be in Philadelphia where I was a member of the Sixers, but on the bank, street clothes. And when the game ended, everyone wanted to congratulate Michael on his spectacular career, but I didn't feel like I knew him well enough to take up his time to even shake his hand. But I wanted to, and it looked like he was walking back to the locker room, and one of my teammates named Tyrone Hill, who's known Michael longer, said, Mike, I only got his attention. So when Michael turned around, I saw that there was an opportunity to sneak in there and shake his hand. And as I did, you know, I hope you feel better and I hope you get better. I'm sorry for what's happening. And I just, I was kind of blown away that he, one, knew who I was, and two, you know, cared about what I was going through and knew my situation. So I've always remembered that. Wow. So he's got a big heart. Yeah, he's an unbelievable human being. Cool. Cool. Well, that's... I'm sure you're not going to hear it. Pardon me? If he does, that's great. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Send him a link. There you go, motorjones.com. Yeah, and I'm sure it will bounce. But anyways, back to the pinball thing. Now, we talked about your EM gun game collection. What about driving games? What EM driving games do you have? EM driving games. Well, you've got a Motorama, right? I've got a motorama that's under construction, under restoration. And that's a Genco from the, what, 56, I believe. And it's kind of an unusual driving game. Do you have any other drivers? In terms of EM or modern? No, in terms of EM. I don't care about that video stuff. Chicago coin speed shift. I've got a speed shift. Okay. The Speedway, which was by... No, you mean Chicago Coin Speedway Outlight Leisure Super Shift. Is that what you meant? It's called Chicago Coin Speed Shift. It's kind of like Super Shifter, I think, but it's a little different. Okay. And then B1 Speedway. Who made that one where it kind of looks like a figure eight in a pinball cabinet? Right. It's Southland Engineering, 1963, I want to say. And Southland Engineering was started by Harry Williams. Harry Williams left Williams in 1960. So just kind of interesting history, that was the same year that Steve Kordak came into Williams and started working at Williams. And basically, Harry Williams was one of the key designers at Williams of their games. And when Harry left, Kordak stepped in to become the, quote, pinball designer. And most of the games through the 60s, 70s were designed by Steve Kordak. But anyway, so Harry moved to California and apparently got bored and started this company called Southland Engineering. And they made, you know, he might have signed a non-compete clause because he didn't make any pinball machines, but he made Little Pro, which is that mannequin golfing game that I know you probably have one of because I actually got you that game at one time. You were going to fix it, and then you didn't. That was my fault? We ran out of town. I had to get to Allentown. Oh, right, right, right. Okay, but anyway, Speedway is like a figure-eight race car track on a pinball cabinet, and it has two slack cars on the track. And basically, there's two steering wheels at the front of the game, like where the lockdown bar would be, and you race against the other guy, you know, trying to get the most laps in a set period of time. So you've got that game working, right? It's working fairly well. It's hard to keep the cars competitive and keeping them at the same speed, but it's a lot of fun. My nephew, who's four, was playing it with my wife. The way mine is wired, which I don't think is correct, I think mine just kind of runs. Whether you move the wheel or not, it runs. Now, if you move the steering wheel at the correct time of turns, that will slow the car down less. I think it's supposed to be where if you don't have that steering wheel in the current position, it cuts power and doesn't move. That's my impression after playing another Vectors. Right, that's correct. My nephew and his friends to move the wheel whichever way they want, see the cars race around the track. And so my wife was playing against him, and my wife was letting my nephew win most of the race, and she decided to win one. And it was then when he was like, you know what, you can play this by yourself. I'm done, and he walked away. And he's four years old? Yeah, he's four, and he'll go downstairs and turn on the pick machines and get them going, so he likes my collection. The other figure-eight game that I actually noticed that Speedway won on your website, and I thought it looked really cool to have a slot car track inside a pinball cabinet. The other one I noticed that I hoped to get someday was the AMF American Speedway, which is much bigger and much longer, but I thought it looked like a hoot. You're not talking about the American Indy. You're talking about the huge one, right? Talking about the huge one, about the 10-foot long thing, and that's, I acquired it a little while ago and took two and had a friend of mine named Bill McMichael restore, make two into one, and that was part of the, I knew I was going to need a little more space, and so I thought, you know, when this new game room is built, it was, part of it was to be able to have room to be able to get that thing in there. So it's a lot of fun, and I like that game a lot. Now to that one, because the Southland Engineering, you were right, what happens is like on the straightaway, there's no accelerator pedal. All you should do is steer. So on the straightaway, you got to keep the steering wheel in the center and then there's power to the car. But as soon as the car hits the corners, if you keep the steering wheel straight, the power shuts off to the car. Now if you turn the steering wheel to the right on a right-hand corner, then it closes the switch that puts power to the car around the corner. Then as the car comes into the straightaway, if that switch is still closed, again, it kills the power to the car. So it's all about timing, when you turn, not how hard or how far you turn, but when you turn that keeps the car going as fast as possible. Now, you're saying that this AMF, though, is more like a traditional slot car where you have an accelerator? No, there's no accelerator. Just as you mentioned, you just have a steering wheel, and the straightaway, you keep it straight. left turn and turn it left, and right turn and turn it right. Okay, so same working principle. Exactly. Okay, interesting, interesting. And that game's much newer, too, isn't it? I think it's 1960, that one. Oh, really? Okay. I thought it was in the 70s. Any information I got was from your site, and I could be totally wrong, and maybe it is 1970. Oh, I could be totally wrong, too. Frankly, I just don't remember. You said 1960s. I'm not sure you had an exact date. Oh, I just said 60s. Yes, I may not have an exact date for that. But anyway, so we covered the pinballs. We covered the EM driving games. We covered the gun games. What about pitch and bats or baseballs? What's your favorite pitch and bat in baseball, or what do you have in your collection? Well, my favorite one for pitch and bat would be the Star Slugger. I played it first at your house. In fact, you've got a nice lineup of baseball there. I was initially drawn to official baseball. I felt like it looked like a little mini baseball field under glass. I thought it looked amazing. And you were telling me that Star Slugger was the game to play, and there's no real mannequins on the play field, but you do have the animated running man unit. I did like the three-dimensional style of the figures compared to the Williams animated unit. So first I found official baseball because I didn't value your opinion as much then, and then I realized you were right and that Star Slugger was a better playing game. Gee, thanks. I'm waiting. What's that? Gee, thanks. Yeah, so Star Slugger, and I didn't think I'd be able to find a 1937 Rockola World Series, and I actually did find one, and so that's probably my favorite. It's got all the great mechanics and the animated, all the players move back and forth a little bit. It's got little mannequins on the play field. Yeah, I should probably explain to people because not a lot of people know what these games are. The 1960 Williams official baseball that you were talking about is like a pinball-style cabinet pitching bat, but it's got little cast men on the play field. It's one of the few pitching bats that actually has men on the play field that aren't like flat silkscreen on the Formica. and because of that it's unique but it's not, there's no ramps and it's not necessarily a real good player it looks great but it doesn't play so well, it has a running man unit which means there's two dimensional cardboard guys that run around the bases in the backbox and then it's a good looking game, it doesn't play awful but it's just not the best playing pitching bat and then the United Star Slugger came out in 1956 by Course United, and it has the Running Man Unit 2, but the men are actually little plastic three-dimensional men, about the same size as the Williams, but they're not flat. And it has, not only does it have ramps, it's got three decks, so you can get a home run into the lower deck, the middle deck, and the upper deck, and actually you're trying to do that, get a ball in each inning into each one of the decks, and then you can win like, I don't know, 30 runs or something like that. It really is a fun game. Big monster, though. It's a big game. Even by your standards, Todd, I'd say that's a large game. It is a big game. Yeah. Don't doubt about it. And then, of course, the pinnacle of any pitch and bat collection would be the 1937 Rockola World Series that was actually invented by Harry Williams in 1930 and put out. It's called All-American Baseball by a different company. And then Rockola kind of copied the design in 37 and came out with it again in kind of a jukebox style cabinet for the time with, you know, with like a veneer maple or veneer wood sides. Really, really good game. It has the 37 All-Stars with like DiMaggio and, you know, the whole lineup. And it actually has their names on. It tells you when you bat, who's up at bat. and really unique. Like the pitcher has, you know, like a dozen different angles and way to throw the ball, and the whole game is just unbelievable, but an incredibly hard game to find and extremely expensive and also hard to restore. Now, when you bought yours, was it all restored, or did you have to have it restored? It was all restored. I believe it was a John Papa restoration, and so it's in beautiful shape. Yeah, I mean, that's an unbelievable find. Was it a hard game to find? Well, I mean, John Papa sometimes comes into that game, and so when I contacted him, it was available. So I guess it's hard and easy at the same time. Right. Well, I guess it's hard to get cheap because that's kind of, you know, I kind of pick the low-hanging fruit where you've kind of got the step ladder and you're picking the higher stuff than me. You know, so It doesn't come up on the low hanging branches Too often So I've never been able to acquire one It's one of the few pitching bats That I'd love to be able to find If I could afford it But it's a pretty It's a pretty expensive game Probably certainly if you were buying it from Papa I'm sure he didn't give it away Yeah, not his style So any other pitching bats that you like? Well there's another one that I know You like, it's called the Chicago coin batter up, which is kind of a pitching bat, except there's no real pitching mechanism and no real batting mechanism except for a light animation below the translucent play field. Right. It does have some mannequins on the play field, little baseball players, and you try and time your swing of a virtual bat to direct the light mechanism under there to go through a couple of holes in the back that are home runs. And it could have been, it is a lot of fun. I could see the game not being fun, but it turns out to be fun and very different to play. So it's kind of a trip to watch and see happen. I mean, when did you get that game? I didn't even know you bought that game. Probably about two years ago. Man, you're supposed to get permission from me when you buy the games that I want. Oh, that's right. I forgot to email you for permission on that, or I didn't get your memo on that. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's a game I've been looking for for quite some time, the 58 Chicago Coin Batter Up. I have not been able to find it. Now, where did you pick that one out of? out of the back of a truck, a friend of mine. You mean it just pulled up to your house and out it came? It pulled up to my house delivering another one, and that was in there. And I took a look at it, and I saw the mannequins on the play field, which kind of looked interesting to me, but I had never heard of Batter Up, so I actually did a little research on your page, and it sounded pretty interesting. So that's how I ended up with it. And, okay, I'm going to run down a couple other big, like, EMRK titles. I don't know if you own all these because I can't keep track of what you own anymore. You know, you're a bio, you're like a collector-holic. You know you almost need counseling for all the stuff that you know Are you going to do the counseling No Well yes Is there going to be an on segment Give me your games All of us need some help too Mail your games to me There you go. How's that working for counseling? Subliminal. Not good subliminally. Okay. Do you have a Chicago coin 1955 around the world trainer? No, I do not. Is that one you've been looking for? I like the game. I've played the game. You know, at first I thought I wouldn't fit in it, and I don't fit it normally. When I have had a chance to play it, I keep my legs out to the side, and it gives me a little bit of an unfair advantage to be able to balance myself. So it's not designed for somewhat of my stature, shall we say. Right, so that's not a big one that you've been looking for. How about Midway Chopper, a helicopter game? I've always wanted a Midway Chopper, and I have a couple in different states, states, and none of them are fully working, but it's in the progress of trying to make one out of a couple of ones that are incomplete. Cool game by Midway, 1974. It's got an 8-track in it. It's probably the best of the helicopter games, the electromechanical helicopter games, where you're actually flying a genuine helicopter. I mean, you've got two controls. It is actually, well, it's not like I fly helicopters for a living or anything. My brother has his helicopter rating. Actually, he's dominated my whirlybird. He has the current high, and I don't think it's fair because he has his helicopter rating. So he says it is very much like the real deal? No, he said it's actually opposite. Oh, really? Yeah, but he was able to trick his brain in a sense. I guess if you were playing pinball, it would be like taking your hands and hitting the opposite one. So he's obviously got the touch, but he said it's reversed. Now, what about some interesting Sega was making electric mechanical EM games, and actually some of them are quite collectible. You have a Sega Cowboy, don't you? I have a Sega Cowboy. I really like Sega Cowboy and some of the stuff that's rare. I think you have a flyer on your website, but I don't know if you have any more information. When I contacted you about it, I don't think you'd ever played it. Yeah, all I have is the flyer. That's correct. So where are my pictures, Todd? They're in Seattle, so you're going to have to come out and take them. but Lloyd at SS Billiards in the Minneapolis area, I was playing over there, and he remembered when his father was operating in Calgary, and he told me it was a lot of fun. So when I found it, I picked it up, added it to the collection, and sometimes you've got to kind of maybe just go off a flyer or maybe go off someone's recommendation. Sometimes you almost have to decide on something before you get a chance to play it, which is probably not recommended, but we all know that he's not like he can go around the corner to the arcade and try all this stuff. So I'm very happy with the way that one turned out. It's a lot of fun. It's very simple like a lot of this stuff, but pretty neat effect with the mirror and the lasso and the cowboy. What is the addict of the game? Well, you've got this little toy plastic cowboy in the front. He's bobbing up and down like he's on a horse, and in the background there's a bull that's running left to right, and you have a lasso that's circling. and you could kind of tell where the position of the cowboy's hand is, and you just have one button, and a lot of the Sega ones were quite simple that way. And you just hit the button, and depending on where his hand is in the circle, he throws it and aimed the lasso at the hooves of the steer, trying to get him to go, and if you get all four, then he hits the ground. Unfortunately, it did come with a tape, and I'm waiting to get the tape back. In the meantime, I didn't have an 8-track, so I found some kind of Christmas polka. So right now, the 8-track is in there. When you rope the steer, you hear some polka come on, and it sounds a little strange for a Sega Cowboy game, but there is a little bit of sound going on right now. I love those 8-track players that are in a lot of those 70s EM arcade games. Now, you've got a Sega Grand National, don't you? Yes, I have a Sega Grand National And that's actually missing I have the tape But I think there's some sort of a board On the 8-track player So if anybody out there has An extra Grand National or a Sega I don't even know which board I need But one of them on the tape player So anyway, I have the game, no sound It's a lot of fun to play And what it is, is it's like a giant conveyor belt With like Jumps, horse jumps on it And your horse doesn't move, but the conveyor belt does move, and you're trying to get your horse to jump over all the jumps, right? Kind of like this steeplechase, yeah, where the jumps are there. Some of them are double jumps, some of them are single jumps, and your horse moves from left to right, then back and forth quite slowly, and whatever jumps are ahead of you, you have to try and time and hold your jump to get your horse over there, and the horse is kind of in a galloping motion, and it's kind of a trip. Yeah, it's kind of actually the horse version of the Casco Untouchables in a way, except, of course, you're not jumping over anything in the car chase of the Untouchables. Well, with the cabinet and the belt, so there are certain similarities, yeah. Yeah, okay. That's kind of cool. Now, speaking of horse games, there was a horse game that you recently had restored that was chronicled in the Game Room magazine. Why don't you tell us about that genre and why you have that? Those are gambling games, really. What attracted you to those? Well, I have traveled with the Canadian national team to different countries and different continents for basketball, and one of them took me to Japan for the World University Games in Fukuoka, Japan. And during an off day, we took the subway to downtown Fukuoka, and there were a whole lot of our arcades there. And a lot of them had a horse racing thing, Royal Ascot by Sega, where you could sit around and the horses would move around the oval, and you'd get, you know, bet tokens and maybe, you know, Winston prizes or whatever. I just had real fond memories of that day watching these mechanical horses run around the track, and so I always kind of had that, you know, thought someday I'd like to get something like that, but of course those machines are quite huge. So when I saw on eBay this game come up, and a lot of the horse racing games are sort of straight ahead, and this was the first one that was oval that I noticed, and it really kind of caught my eye, and there were nine horses, and you could bet nickels on them and try and see if the horse would win. So it kind of just brought back those memories. And it's a 70s game, and it's completely electromechanical. I can't remember, does it run on an air compressor or something? No compressor, just electricity, and it runs on a series of chains. It's change-driven for each of the horses, and there's a randomizer with a Veeder Decade system to sort of pre-select the winner. and, of course, known to the player. And Nixie tubes are used to indicate how many nickels have been fed on each particular horse for that race. And then there's a little payout drawer in the middle. So it was designed and manufactured by the Nevada Gaming Corporation, I think in the 60s, for probably casinos down there. And they use some pretty unique parts. Some of them are telephone parts. Some would be, you know, a hopper would be a slot machine type thing. and back glass, the score wheel, and mechanical horses. So it's a strange machine, and I was very glad that Kevin Kiner had the knowledge and the skills to be able to make it work the way it was designed. Wow, so that's pretty cool. All right, Todd, we're going to take a little break, and we're going to let some people call in. Is that okay? You want to take a couple questions if somebody wants to call in? Sounds like fun. Okay. The phone number is 1-800 if you want to ask time to call in. formerly of the Philly 76ers, NBA, some questions. And we're going to run a couple of little commercials here. And we'll be right back. Hold on a second here, Todd, as I get these things kind of queued up. The Pin Game Journal is a proud sponsor of TopCast. It covers pinball like no other publication can. The Pin Game Journal is America's only pinball publication. Whether you're looking for new games or the classics, reports on industry shows or collector expos, insights on a game you want or features to help you fix the game you've got, Pin Game Journal is for you. Their website is at pingamejournal.com. Pins and Vids Episode 2, Attack of the Phones, is now available at pinsandvids.com. It's the best Pins and Vids yet. Double the fun and half the underwear in the first episode. Surely you'd be nominated for an Oscar for the best use of fake phones in a rich video. Best special effects during a dream sequence Worth much, much more than the $6 Including shipping and selling price It's worth at least $7 or $7.50 Get your copy now at pinsandvids.com And now for a word from our lawyer The entire sale price goes to the Pinball Hall of Fame First episode also available Some pinball machines were hurt during the filming of the Pins and Vids But they were old Get your Duranian DVDs on CoinUpGoodness now Hi, you're on the air with Todd What's your first name? Hey, it's Kevin Kynert Hi, Kevin Hey, Kevin. Hey, how you doing? I'm good. How are you doing? Real good. Everything still playing good? Everything's running great. And thank you for the article you wrote. I haven't seen the Untouchables one yet, but I'm anxiously awaiting it. I thought you did a great job with the horse derby one. I hope you got my phone message. Yeah, the march issue's out. I just got it. Oh, good. I should be here any day then. Turned out pretty good. I didn't catch the beginning of your interview. I didn't know if you were talking about the games or not. But, Shaggy, you've got a great show. I really love it. Well, cool. That's really good. Now, how did you two guys meet up here? Well, I don't know if you remember a guy named Don Willems. Yeah, okay, that's right. Yeah, we kind of covered that. I'm sorry, my bad. Yeah, was that talked about at the beginning of the show? Yeah, we talked about Don in the unfortunate. Yeah, unfortunate. But I did his game first, and then he passed my name along. Oh, you mean so Don had one of these? Well, actually, I traded a second unit that I had. I had two of them. One's in my collection, and I had another one. Don put an AMI Continental II jukebox on eBay about a year and a half ago, and I've always wanted one. It didn't meet his reserve price, but I emailed him and said, you know, I have a list of things here that I'd consider trading, and he looked over the list. He said, I'd take the Casco Untouchable. So we made that trade. Interesting. You know, and then, so you've done, Todd, has he done other work for you too? Just these two games right now, but I know when I come into something tough, I'm going to be sending the next thing down to him. Right. Now, where are you located? I'm in Santa Maria, California, which is the central coast of California. I'm about halfway between L.A. and San Francisco by Vandenberg Air Force Base, Pismo Beach in that area. an hour north of Santa Barbara. And do you have a web page? Yeah, I do. And it's in both issues of Game Room Magazine. If you can spell my last name, which is K-E-I-N-E-R-T, it's kindert.com. I've had that one forever, and I just registered a new one, gameroomrepair.com. Oh, much better. I can spell that one. Yeah. But the other thing that happened to me was Roger from the, I think it's called Coin Slots or Slot Company, someplace up there in Washington. He sent me recently Electricity is Life from 1902. Right. And I redid that one for him. So that's on my website now also. Very cool, because I need to steal pictures of Todd's game from my website. I don't have that game at all on my website. Email me and I'll send you all the original pictures so you'll have them in good resolution and stuff. Okay, great. Although the only thing I don't have is the full game together with the back glass because Todd didn't send it so it wouldn't get broken. Right, right. The full one from him. Now, Todd, how were you smart enough to know that that was a good game to buy? I've never been all that smart with some of the games. Like I said, just nostalgically, I remember in Japan watching those games and the horses running around and thinking, that's really cool. and I'd seen some of the horse racing games where the different lights would light up, and to me that wasn't the same as the horses. It was the first game that I saw that was, it's a big game, but it's not monstrous, and they went around in a noble, and I thought it would be a whole lot of fun to sit there and compete with my friend. So you rolled the dice on that one. What's that? You rolled the dice on that one, then. I did. I rolled the dice on a lot of things. Most things I've been happy about, a few things have moved along, but I remember wondering if it would be worth it, and it was working when I first got it, and I had a couple of teammates over from the Sixers and a couple of other friends, and I was standing in one end of the room, and my two friends who are loud and boisterous were yelling their horse's number and pushing and shoving each other, having a great time, I thought right there. Yeah, it's worth it. It just proved it's worth right now. And one of my teammates, a friend of mine named Samuel Dallin there, was downstairs, and I had my Seattle Tech friends from Classic Amusement, Upstairs and I can't say you got to check out this horse racing machine downstairs my friends have a great time with it I come down place the nickel nothing happens and like an idiot. I place another nickel nothing happens And so my text they look in the coins. There's a whole bunch of quarters down here your nickel machine And I look around and Sam goes sorry thought it was a quarter machine So he had there had to be a handful of quarters in there You know the worst thing so we got that out and made it work And I've been happy to have it ever since then stopped working and that's where that's where Kevin came into the equation Okay. Hey, Kevin, I'm going to let you go in case somebody else wants to get in. Yeah, exactly. I was just going to hang up. One last question. Is this show going to be available for download eventually? Yeah, it'll be available for download probably in a couple hours, a couple, three hours. All right. You gentlemen have a great day. You still there, Todd? Yeah, I'm here. Okay. Yeah, that was nice that he called. It's amazing that he even knew about this because it was really like a last-minute thing that we put out there. And it's great that he called in. Wow, that's really cool. So, I mean, what games have you gambled, rolled the dice on that you weren't so happy with? There was one that I think you had some interest in, Commando, which I think is the one with the helicopter. Right, yeah, the Chicago Coin Commando. That one didn't turn out so good. That one didn't turn out so good. Defender, Chicago Coin Defender, I kind of rolled the dice on that. I prefer Sea Rescue and Stunt Pilot and thought I'd like Defender a little more than I did. So some of those big cabinet games rolled the dice a little bit with Big Top, thinking it would be just like Twin Rifle, and to me it didn't turn out to be equally as good. Twin Ski Shoot I thought would be a little bit better than it was. So those are games that I bought and wasn't crazy about until they moved along. Yeah, luckily none of those games are real expensive. They're all kind of, you know... Several hundred dollar games. Yeah, yeah, basically. But they're, you know, I don't want to say that they're not fun. They're just, you know, when you've got a big collection and you've got the top-end games to compare them to, yeah, they might not quite measure up. I'm still working on my stunt pilot, which is a midway game from the early 70s, which is, you know, you keep on telling me how good of a game that is. I've got to get mine up and running. I like it. My father was a pilot, my brother had his pilot's license, and a buddy of mine is a pilot, so they tend to dominate me. Cool. All right, Todd, well, I know you've got a game tonight. that you've got to go do the color commentary on. So I am going to let you go. I really, really do appreciate you spending the time with us to talk about your collection and your NBA career. It was really fun. I really do appreciate it. Well, thank you for giving me the time. I look forward to seeing you when I'm in Detroit. All right, man. You're going to call me when you come into town? Yeah, I'm going to give you a ring. Yeah, because you usually come over here, and I can't get rid of you, frankly. I tend to do that. That's okay. That's okay. We'll put up with it. I can watch you hit your head on the top of all my doorways, you know, all day long. It's kind of a, you know, makes me feel good. I'll cut into our toys by the time I'm there, okay? Thanks. All right, Todd, you take care and have a good game tonight. Okay, thanks. All right, man, take care. Bye. Bye. All right, well, that was our show, TopCast, today with Tom McCulloch, former NBA star for the Philadelphia 76ers and pinball and arcade game collector electromechanical arcade games he really has no video games in his collection he prefers those but thank you very much and good day