Hey, what's going on pinball land? It's episode 16 of the flipping out pinball podcast. My name is Ken Cromwell with me today. The best podcast co-host in the business. His name is Greg bone. Greg, what's up, buddy? Good morning, Mr. Cromwell. You know what I have to say, man. So for you guys listening, you didn't know, but, but Ken just had to do a, this is the first time I've ever seen Ken do a second take for his start. He came in a little hot. he felt, but I have to say, I enjoyed the hot take, because Ken is on it this morning. He's hyped up, he's hyped up, and I thought it just conveyed the feeling that he is feeling today, a lot better than that one he just introduced. Dude, I am pumped up today. It's a combination of several things. One, I love this time of year. I love Christmas season. I love everything about it, except for the Chicago snow and the Chicago Carl Weathers, but that's a whole other thing. You're just kind of wrapping the end of the year, which is always kind of exciting. You've got New Year's coming up, and you can kind of start new things. and have new aspirations and set new goals. And then to be able to sit down and knock a show out with you going into the holiday season at the end of the year, man, I'm just very grateful. I'm very pumped up. That's why when I came out, I was like, hi, let's go. Freaking pinball land. We're going to knock out episode 16 of Flip N Out Pinball Podcast. I'm on fire a little bit this morning. We are recording this on Monday morning because we want to get it out Wednesday, right, for Christmas Eve podcast. There's a lot of things that are going to be going on in this episode. We've got that flipping out 10-day giveaway contest that we did. This is what we're going to do with this, guys. We don't want to make this whole podcast a sweepstakes giveaway podcast. That's a little bit boring. But we also realize a lot of you are first-time listeners here, and you want to know if you won a prize. So what we're going to do is we're going to make you listen to the entire episode because we're going to sprinkle in winners throughout the episode. You can't even skip to the end. We're not saving it at the end. We're sprinkling. sprinkling sprinkling it's that time of year like a sugar cookie and there's going to be no rhyme or reason as to the time in between prizes we are going to make you listen to the entire episode but no we're going to do our best to keep you informed and entertained throughout the way so that's no problem we recently greg had another field trip and this time it was uh back to evansville indiana flipping out pinball headquarters uh visiting zach and nicole many we we all collaborated on a end of year i don't know what would you call a meeting and it was kind of our christmas party in a sense yeah yeah but yeah it was great like we we showed up there uh we got down there at a decent hour because you have to travel quite a bit i'm only a couple hours away you're quite a bit further but you know things you never know what to expect i mean we kind of always know what we want to do in the evening because even though it's freezing cold outside we'd already mentioned and kind of convinced zach because zach is uh zach is not uh cold is not a friend of his so we we kind of knew that we still wanted to build a big bonfire outside and we wanted to be able to stand around it and hang out that night so you and i kind of had that already planned against i think zach's best wishes even though he ended up having a great time but but we just didn't know what else the day was going to bring like what we're going to do we knew we were going to eat some food hang out you know talk talk shop it's always very business oriented too obviously and stuff but you know oddly enough i mean we kind of set out for some food and zach gave us the most historic tour of all of evansville that you could you could ever imagine oh my gosh it's amazing like whenever i've gone to evansville which is what two times now it's just i never realized that it actually had almost a little city in a downtown atmosphere it just looked like a lot of like a busy main street with some commercial buildings and the left and right That's what I thought Evansville was. But you get into downtown Evansville, it's historic. It's a beautiful little city. You know, there's little quaint little places. We ate at a nice little swanky little kind of diner restaurant type thing, which we got a burger for lunch, which I thought was awesome. He took us down to that baseball field where they filmed the League of Their Own, which is the third oldest baseball stadium that's still functioning next to Wrigley Field and Fenway. That was an amazing pit stop on the tour. What else did we do? Oh, and then later that night, we ended up at that haunted library. Why is there always haunted stuff going on when we're getting together? He said, I'm going to take you to this library. It's one of the most haunted libraries in the world, and they just had some footage that they leaked at nighttime. It's the Gray Lady. What's the name of the library? I think Willard. Willard Library, home of the Gray Lady, who's like some old ghost who's just walking this library. I'm like, dude, I don't want to go to a haunted library. One, I thought it was going to be boring. Two, you know me. I don't like stuff attaching to me, potentially. And me bringing the gray lady home. When we were in Galena, Illinois, I didn't want Mrs. McConnell attaching herself to me out of that freaking, what was that, 510 Federal B&B, Airbnb? Yeah. Yeah. But, man, we went there. That's a beautiful library. If you're ever in that area, go check that out. And it's creepy. I was so surprised because, I mean, they literally lean into it there because they have permanent cameras, like lots of cameras set up in that whole entire facility to track and to watch for paranormal activity. And it's not just their security cameras. There are dedicated cameras that are specifically set up. Infrared cameras. Yeah, it's crazy. I was expecting the Ghostbusters thing with a little tracker with the sides that go up. Yeah, that's exactly right. It's exactly right. Yeah, that place was cool, though, man. Beautiful. It was cool. It was just a very unique place to be. And then we ended up at the Pizza Place later that night. And that was before we got out later back at headquarters where we had our flipping out pinball year-end therapy session where we had our cigars and bourbon by the fire. But, you know, Zach and Nicole, great hosts. I mean, I had an amazing time. I wasn't quite certain what the day was going to include. but it was a real nice surprise, Clark. And it's always nice, just like kind of like what we did last time. It's kind of like, even though it was like our Christmas get together, it was still kind of like a retreat in the sense that we just talk so much business and trying to see, you know, where we're going into next year, what we can improve on, you know, what we can do to make it a better customer experience, you know, all those things like, and that always, that's as exciting to me as just getting together and even just talking like friendship talk and everything else because i think that all three of us uh even and nicole so all four of us really all enjoy the the shop talk you know in business business talk to see what we can do to always make things better you know because there's there's always room for improvement and i think that if you you ever stop that and you feel that you're in a place uh you know that you don't need to improve anything then you're most likely yeah you're Right. I mean, once you become kind of complacent, you know, it's it's tough. We're always striving to do best. You know, most companies should be doing that. Agreed. You don't want to settle for mediocrity. And even if you're hitting it out of the park, you know, if you're betting 406 one year, you want to go ahead and change the stance a little bit to hit 408 the next year. So that's the way that it goes, the way that we roll. And it's cool that the four of us are all on that same page. So when we get together like in person and we're able to kind of discuss, you know, what happened this year and where the business is. Because, listen, guys, without letting on to too much, because even a lot of it's not clear to me yet, but there's a path here for flipping out that I think is going to surpass a lot of expectations. And I'm super excited about it. And it was a big reason that I wanted to come work with you guys. And I don't know. It's good. 2020 is going to be interesting. It's going to be interesting. All right. I want to say a quick thank you to some new Patreon members. And if you're looking to kind of get more involved in the show, some behind the scenes stuff, some bonus content, we've got our after hours video conference call thing going on later this month. You can go to Patreon dot com slash flipping out pinball podcast. And there's different ways that you can support the show there, including free ways in which you can just kind of get involved. But I want to say thanks and welcome Greg and I to Tyler, Scott, Jason and Adrian all joining on the paid support tiers over flipping out. So thank you guys for coming in. And I also wanted to give a special thank you. Our guy Jeff over there at Patreon sent us a little care package, Greg. I was talking to him a little bit offline about some bourbons and whiskeys. And he's deep into the weeds. He's got a collective over there in a group. And he sent us a bottle, a bottle of Eagle Rare on Buffalo Trace Distillery. Eagle Rare is top shelf. I love the Eagle Rare. It's very difficult. It's an allocated bottle. You can't really get it easily here unless you pay a premium. So Jeff sent that out, and he said, hey, make sure, Ken, that you don't drink that unless you're with Greg and Zach. So I will abide by his terms, and we will get together next time. You know, I think you guys need to come to Chicago or to St. Charles, where I live, next time. I don't mind making the trips out to Indiana. It's fun. But it's like I'm up to nothing on the trip. So you guys got to come out here. I want a tour. I want a tour of St. Charles. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. And I got to give a big shout out because, I mean, I received some gifts, too. You're not the only one. Corey, Corey, a great customer and fan of ours, sent us, again, another bottle of some Hooten Young, which was fantastic. Yeah. And a couple smokes for us to enjoy. We actually enjoyed some of those on our flipping out trip around that campfire. So that was super nice. So, you know, Corey, thank you so much, man. And thank you to all you guys who send us stuff, man. We're beyond grateful for that. It's awesome. That's 100. Yeah. We don't expect stuff. No. But I'll be honest with you. As an adult, it's cool to get stuff in the mail. I still love it. I don't know what's going on. 100%. Like I said, we will – you send us anything company-wise, we'll shill it for you. Whether that be T-shirts or nice Rolex watches. We got your back. Whatever you need to send out. We got your back. We're here to help your creative marketing initiatives. All right. So let's start this off, Greg. Before we get into some topics, we're going to give away a couple of prizes. See? Random. You don't know what's going on. Now, we're going to give away the Day 1 prize by Chicago Gaming Company and the Day 2 prize by Raw Thrills Play Mechanics. Day 1 was a Chicago Gaming Company t-shirt. Winner of that, Trevor Wyatt. Trevor Wyatt, you won the Chicago Gaming Company tri-blend t-shirt. And Day 2, the Raw Thrills Play Mechanics. These were two Pulp Fiction t-shirts. I love that shirt, by the way. Yeah, it is awesome. I actually had people that had called or not called but had emailed asking how to get them. I'm like, I don't even know how to get them. But that's Austin Mazinski. Austin Mazinski, you won the two Pulp Fiction shirts by Chicago Gaming Company. Guys, to claim prizes, we are not DMing you. And the reason for that is just safety protocols. We don't want somebody, hey, what's your address? What's the last four of your socials? Mother's maiden name. No, no, no. You're going to email us at flip the letter N out pinball podcast at gmail.com with your name. the prize that you won, and then I've got a way to verify who the winner is through the emails. So we're going to keep it emails. It's FlippinOutPinballPodcast at gmail.com. Now, look, we're not reaching out. So if you do not email to claim your prize, Greg and I will take them. We'll figure it out. We'll see. We'll see. But, yeah, we'll have to figure out another creative way to give those away. Days three and four coming up later in the show. But, Greg, we're winding down 2025, getting ready to go into 2026. It was an interesting year by all accounts, both personally and professionally for me, and I'm sure probably the same for you. And as I kind of reflected back on the year, I was thinking, like, what are some of the hotter topics that had happened? What are some things that I liked? What are some things that maybe I wasn't so fond about? We don't have show notes today. I don't know what you want to do as far as approaching the actual episode, but I kind of for me, I wanted to just kind of go each manufacturer and not recap it. But I wanted to talk about like one thing that I was pleased with or that was memorable. That was memorable for me for that particular manufacturer. So and if you want to go in a different direction, we can and we can switch gears also. though. But like, for instance, Stern Pinball for me this year, the thing that really stood out and this is going to be great because, again, for those that don't know, I was working at Jersey Jack Pinball up until June of this year, and then I came over to flip it out. Now, for my five years at JJP, I just I played mostly all Jersey Jack Pinball machines, which is great. You know, I loved that. That was a big reason I went over to JJP. I love the product. I love everything they do. It's a unique playing situation, the way that they approach games, everything. But when you're playing the same games for you know a half of a decade and i didn't really get out to play a lot of other games even at pinball shows i would find myself in our booth you know how it is at a show you don't really get out and play a bunch of games there's lines you just don't do it i missed a lot of new releases just playing it and just other than maybe plunging a ball or two i didn't get a chance to do it so for me again this is my circuitous way of getting around to memorable thing for stern pinball for me this year was was discovering king kong pinball machine i agree i I love the game. It's the shot layout. It's a game. I'll be honest. I did not. It wasn't on my radar, even when it was released. I was like, OK, you know, the theme doesn't call to me. I don't care about King Kong. I just don't. It's not a big deal. I don't dislike it. I don't like it. Playing that game over the past couple of months, I can't stop playing it. Keith and team knocked it out of park. That's a brilliant layout. Now, I think the code is still not at 1.0, so there's still some evolution to happen there. I just love it. Dude. I love it. I a million percent agree. It's one of those games. So I got that game. Buy every new game, stick out on location. I bought that game, and I actually cared about King Kong. Zach and I both are big Universal fans and stuff. So I loved to have Kong. I was like, okay, this will be neat to have next to Jaws and everything. Like, I love this. And it came out. It wasn't what I expected. It wasn't what I wanted. It was so colorful, and it was what it was. I mean, still beautiful artwork, but just it was not what I expected. So, you know, I bought it. I stuck it out on location. I didn't really mess with it. You know, I'll always plunge and play a couple games on there. But I just didn't give it much thought and didn't care. and so i was i was rotating some games out and and kong was one of those ones that ended up coming home with me and every game i just don't leave it in my garage and i just don't leave it in storage if i bring it in i set it up because you know i'll play it i still love pinball and man that first night that i really dug into that thing i was like okay nope i i should have given this a chance earlier because this is one of the most phenomenal unique layouts that i have ever played and and you know it a hundred percent yes and it grew on me art wise much like god godzilla did too so i mean it really grew on me to where that that does not bother me uh any longer but i love the code structure i love everything that keith put in there i love all the sub step dude because like i i can't remember what it's called i'm kicking myself and they ask for it, but I love where you go in and you have to plunge to try to hit the magnet and the targets where the spider... Oh, that's an amazing little mini game. Yeah, that is awesome. I love that on a timer. It's brilliant. Because it's stressful. Like, just, I don't... Dude, everything about it... It's stressful and I can't hit any of them. No. I'll soft plunge that like 25 times and I'm like, oh my God, I miss every single time. Yeah. I think it's because I haven't got a... Yeah, I don't know. Dude, I love it. I love that. I didn't know what it was originally. And then it just... And I put two and two together. I'm like, oh, I still don't know how to get there. And that's just because I haven't paid enough attention to the rules. But that is such a fun little moment of the game to try to just a minigame within a bigger game is cool. Yeah, it is. And just all the modes are well thought out. It's like you said, like, it's not complete. So I'm excited to see some of the polishes put on there. But it is just a fun game. And it's a game that keeps you coming back for more. Like, that's what I love. yeah and you know godzilla obviously gets all the hype with with due respect jaws gets that hype but like i i think maybe because of the artwork initially and just because some of the naysayers around them you know how that that travel you know how like that bad word of mouth and especially in this hobby that just assholes end up just spewing out stuff and most of them don't even play the game or they just don't like something like and again i was sort of there with them so like i I can't talk too bad, but I think this game is slowly creeping up on people's radar. And if you guys have not played it, if you have not got a chance to really put some time on it, give it a chance, because I almost guarantee it's going to it's going to end up being one of your favorite games, if not your favorite game, obviously, of this past year. But, man, like, I just I can't tell you how much that I'm on board with you. Like, that's yeah, I'm glad to hear that. And I would also say this. Don't don't play. Don't put two or three games on it and judge it. Yeah. Because there's a lot of shot paths that you're not going to find. Exactly. Until you're 10 or 15, 20 games into this. And then you start figuring out these combos and you start figuring out how to cross the chasm. Dude, it's just awesome. So, I mean, again, I tip my hat to those guys. Oh, the biplanes? I get obsessed with the biplanes. Trying to collect those biplanes. Yeah, it's awesome. It's not easy. And there's so many you need to collect. But I get obsessed with that. Like, I love that. Because even if you're just, you know, you don't really want to focus on the modes, like, you can collect biplanes. It just like Elwynn other games man There so much that you can focus on in there that I just oh man I don know I can say enough about it I think listen if we were given awards to me it would be the most underrated game of the year by far easily Yeah, I agree. It's underrated. It's flying under the radar. And, I don't know, you know, again, Keith team, you guys killed it. And that core team is, man, people are just anticipating these releases. So it's a good place to be in if you are Keith Elwin and team over there. So good times. It is. And then we had, you know, from them, just, again, brief recap. Dungeons & Dragons came out. That was January. That was their first Cornerstone release of the year. Dungeons & Dragons is just a unique experience. I mean, there's nothing like it in pinball, really, just the way that Dwight and them have coded and structured that whole rule set. Still a favorite of a lot of people, man. We have a lot of customers come in and just love that game. and still you know again very unique experience on there and then we had uh jaws 50th which has been massive massive yeah um another game that kind of grew on i feel like both of us it grew on us like you know i don't know if i was wild about that color scheme and and it really grew on me with that red armor and everything i love the play field and the wire forms like from the beginning like phenomenal uh but yeah freaking stellar seller man like people people just loving jaws and eating that topper grew on me too for that game because when that topper first came out i'm like what is this just just a sign yeah it's cool man i dig the topper i like it we talked about that while we were down in zacks we were looking at those toppers we talked i was like that's probably honestly one of my favorite toppers like it's simple that's the thing right you see something that when you're showing stuff online and you've got photos i mean photos can only take you so far you just kind of walk up to the stuff you got to see it touch it sniff it if you can that's a good smelling topper i love it yeah i change my mind on a lot of things when i when i you know stand over it same thing like i'll change my mind on a lot of things after you know playing a game in a home versus at a show because there's just so much going on with the show you can't take a game in that's what i don't like it when people give uh uh reviews first impression's fine but i don't like it when someone reviews a game and and you know especially if they don't have it in the home or something they went into an arcade and dropped five dollars in it and like okay here's the review and what i feel of this game like i do not like that because things do change there's there's been like i think you need at least like 50 games on a game to really get in that because like you said like learning the rules learning the ball paths and i i find that a lot of games that i don't like after the initial flip like i'll throw a couple games on there and i don't like it those tend to be the games that have the longest staying power for me and that i love like games i typically walk up to i'm like okay that's nice typically tend to end up being boring for me in the long run. I don't enjoy as much, you know, and I think maybe it's just because it's more simplistic or something or the shots feel good because I grasp it, you know, right from the beginning, that sort of thing. I don't know, but I agree with you in every aspect of that as well. That's why you have to give time to a game to kind of bake into your mindset. and that's a big reason now where me personally i'll never get two games two new games at the same time anymore not to deter anybody from doing that flipping out pinball and flipping out pinball dot com but it's like i when when i get two games at a time i naturally will just think that one's better than the other and then i don't give that second game as fair a shake until i start becoming a little bit more bored with the game that i liked initially and i go to that second game and i'm like oh this game this game is great i've had that happen a few times where i've taken games in on trade two for ones things like that uh i i like to be able to sit down dedicate time to a game play it figure out what the quirks are what i like what i don't like otherwise it waters everything down for me it's it's just how my mind thinks oh see i'm almost the opposite like i i like give me three four new games at a time i don't care because like most of my collection i've played enough that like i want something new so like it keeps me entertained and i'm just back and forth back and forth back and forth back and forth oh yeah that's interesting i'm completely opposite just give me one let me let me take it all in take it all in yeah then we had so we kind of rounded out the year with stern we had uh we had star wars fall of the empire come out um we just saw those accessories drop we got cp30 or c yeah that's a good point yeah yeah so we we had some uh nice accessories dropped for that uh then we fully rounded out the year of walking dead remastered um which i've heard honestly like i've seen quite a few people can so back to our thing about seeing things like that topper in person and stuff like a lot of people said hey listen in person this is a beautiful game this is this is nice this is great artwork and stuff you know the walking dead yeah i still haven't seen it in person i can't i can't i saw it in person i look it looked like it looked like in the pictures for me i i don't it's not like i stood over the walking dead i was like oh my gosh completely different experience it's pretty much what the pictures look like so it i think if you don't like the the pictures i don't know that you're going to be wowed by the cabinet in person like i didn't mind the artwork i i don't you know whatever it's fine it's a different approach people complained that that game was too dark you know when i originally came out it's dark it says you know they brighten it up a little bit it gives it a facelift i don't know i the whole i saw it in person and well well i think it's better i don't think it's like a mind-changing like oh my god okay never mind i was missing this and misinterpreted. And I do want to just say, I just got done talking about how you got to look at this stuff in person. Really making a decision. I'm like, you don't need to see it in person. I think they're just more impressed with the artwork. The art itself, the compilation. Yes. When you get to walk around the cabinet and you can take everything in individually, it makes greater sense of the composition. It's fine. I don't have an issue with the artwork on The Walking Dead. I was listening to Zach and Dennis on The Pinball Show, and at some point on their latest episode, Zach was talking about, I think he was trending up Star Wars Fall of the Empire, and he's right. A lot of the deals that I put through over the past month, a lot of Star Wars Fall of the Empire. Well, we got a lot of new customers that love it. It's doing great on location. That's the thing. It's crushing it on location in a lot of places. I've heard from people talking it not. It's Star Wars. But somebody else was saying, Were you talking about how people come over and they flock to yours? Yeah. That's the number one game that they're enjoying at your house. In my studio right now, because it rotates, I have Star Wars Fall of the Empire. I have King Kong. And then I have A Godfather 50th. And I've got Big Buck Hunter here. I've got Golden Tee here. I've got a claw machine here. But the people that are rotating through pinball, and these are my buddies that they're not going to sit down and be like, So what code version is this? Nobody knows. They're just playing and flipping. They're all playing Star Wars. And I don't know if it's the theme recognition. They just like the way that it shoots. It's fast. It's flowy. Now, for me, if I had to pick between the layouts, I'm going King Kong, and that's just my personal preference. They don't want to touch King Kong. They don't know what's going on in King Kong. It's almost they can't wrap their mind around what's happening with the whole King Kong thing. Star Wars is very – it's explainable. Like it's, it's again, I I'm, I'm going against what I said in a sense. So this is kind of just a first impressions, but I, I, I need more time on it to see if I actually like it. But Star Wars wasn't really my cup of tea. The few games I put on it personally, it just wasn't my taste, but, but I a million percent can see where that it is a very easily explainable game. You kind of know what's going on, which is great versus something like Kong that I think is a lot better game. But it does take time to kind of learn what's going on, get the shots down, learn the mode. It's subjective, right? To each their own. There's stuff that I love that people hate and vice versa. Both decent games. Yeah, they are. Greg, let's give away another prize pack. Day three and day four of the Flip N Out Pinball Podcast 10 Days of Giveaways. Day three was from Papa Shot. It was a super slam door-hanging mini basketball hoop. So if you want to dunk on your buddies in the convenience of your own home, you can do that. The winner of that prize is Pamela Sue. Pamela Sue wins the Pop-A-Shot Super Slam Door Hanging Mini Basketball Hoop from Pop-A-Shot. And day four was the Incredible Technologies Prize Pack, which included like $150 in gift cards. You had some Golden Tee t-shirts, some koozies. Huge prize pack. So if you're a Golden Tee person, yeah, this is what you want to do. You want to plug those gift cards in and go nuts and play some Golden Tee. And that's going to go to Vincent Blanc. Vincent Blanc, you win the Incredible Technologies Golden Tee Codes and Merch Prize Pack from Incredible Technologies. Congratulations. Claim your prizes at FlippinOutPinballPodcast.gmail.com. You know, and I did want to mention, because before the show started, you were asking how we figured out the winners. So, and just full transparency, what I had done for every day, the amount of comments that were on there, because this was all random. We didn't pan select everybody or anybody at that point. I said Alexa say there's a hundred and three hundred fifty comments Alexa give me a random number between one and three fifty and she'd be like your random number is a hundred seventy six so then I would go in manually and I would go to the hundred seventy six comment and I would take the name down so that's how I did it for all ten so it was just it was completely unbiased as fair as can be and it really I did appreciate when she would say like the number's four I'm like oh thank goodness it's like one two three four but it's like right in the middle I'm like no it's terrible but anyways moving along and we'll speed it up here a little bit because uh you know you don't need to keep here for too long today the uh second company i wanted to just touch base on uh jersey jack pinball a memorable thing for me uh this year with that company was it was a weird situation because i worked there for half the year and i closed out the year flipping out uh memorable for me is just the success that they've had with Harry Potter. I think that that company deserved a banger. And just knowing everybody there on a personal level and how hard everybody works, it's nice to see those guys be able to walk around with a little bit more swagger and just have the success of just a massive license. And, you know, that goes from the Abbess family to Jack Ornery, Eric Meunier and team. I mean, everybody in that whole building, I know they're proud about it. And I'm just I'm happy for them. The one thing that I hope is I hope that this this success doesn't lead to a price increase for 2026. I think that'd be unfortunate. There was price increases after GNR during the run of GNR. Yeah, which was a huge success. And I'm not saying that the titles after GNR weren't considered successful, but they obviously they weren't. They weren't as successful from a units being sold perspective. Yeah. And I would imagine that Harry Potter is going to be coming up on those GNR numbers over time. Oh, I think it'd have to. I mean, it's a great game. Yeah, Potter, I mean, Ken, I have to say, like, Potter is probably my favorite game of the year. Honestly, like, I need to get a little more into it. It's a little quirky. But, I mean, it may be slowly becoming one of my more favorite games of all time. Wow. It's just a very unique, very good game. um that's a lot coming from you because i know that i mean you've owned a ton of games and yeah well it's just very different like like that's the thing is i i don't know i don't know if it'll say that i can say it's like absolutely my favorite or like there's the best game ever made sort of thing but it just shoots very different it just feels very different it's definitely i think one of the better playing uh jjp games by far by far honestly but i agree it It just plays different. It just plays different. It's hard to explain. You know, with the no return to the outlanes and the inlanes or to the inlanes themselves, it just creates a very quick, very fast experience and everything. You know, ball control, that's my only problem. Ball control is a little rough on that game. But, I mean, it's fine, man. It's good. To me, Joe Katz's best game that he's coded to. like i mean i like i like his modes i like everything that he's done in there i like the progression i like the way you work through the semesters um i like he actually put some good moments in this uh you know i'm greedy and i could still use some more but man like like joe joe i feel like i don't know if he deliberately listened or whether he just had these ideas in his head and it sparked but there are some fun neat moments that go on in this game that i i really freaking like that they do with lighting and everything else it's it's nice i i think you're going to see some more coming down the pipeline from that game also so if if you're pleased with where the code is at now you know stick around you'll be good you know joe's one of those guys where he has no problem even at home on his free time yeah if he feels like he can make a game better he'll do it he did it with willie wonka that was like that was on his own yeah oh it's just well and it's like jack didn't say hey i needed to sit around for six months and and do 2.0 on Willy Waka. I mean, he was playing pinball with his brother and his brother was giving him feedback on the game and he was taking that to heart and he made changes on his own time and then he released that code on his own time. So that just goes to the level of dedication of these, you know, some of these guys don't get the credit for it. They get accused of it. You're phoning it in. No, these guys are into it. Like, they can go other places and be successful. They're here in the industry because they're passionate about gaming and about making people happy or attempting to do so, despite some of the unwarranted criticism in my opinion that comes out just the way some of that is conveyed to people disrespectful it drives me insane it is you know be a freaking human being and and uh and grow up and have an adult conversation with somebody instead of ripping people online well that's what you can see like do when we me and you when we were talking to to joe um and i think i may have went in a little more in depth with him at expo um standing around the game talking to him about i mean this is also like to me one of the most passionate things i've seen him do i mean dude just was smiling the entire time and had so much enthusiasm as we were talking about the game you know he spent so much time on this game like it's got to be hard to feel that away still because you're so close to it and you've coded and you've worked on these modes you know it's to me that would still be really hard to sit there and be so excited talking to somebody about something you've spent so much time on you know i i would almost not want to look at the game any longer but you know that's what i saw like the golden snitch moments like that's freaking fantastic um you You know, there's a thing with the Weasley and the fireworks that are blasting off that's amazing, like Doris Umbridge, the pink, just everything. He did. And some of it's subtle moments. Like, that's the thing, too, is like some of it, I mean, the attention to detail on some things is so incredibly magnificent in this game that I think that if you just really watch for some things, like, you're going to be more impressed. It's almost like a seek and find thing. Well, that's cool. Yeah. Good. Yeah, I think that's a very fair and balanced overview of that whole game, actually. Oh, thank you. Thank you, sir. Yeah, absolutely. You can get Harry Potter orders in through FlippinUpPinball.com. New orders right now, you're probably looking at March 2026 as JJP continues to fill back doors. That'd be my one small criticism probably is just, you know, you wish they could make more games or make them quicker so people weren't waiting as much. But you know what? For the most part, people are happy to wait because it's a grail game for them. And it's something they've been looking forward to for a long time. And that game came out in June. So we're about six months into the run and it'll probably be all be done. I would assume over the next six months, uh, they'll probably close the books on that. And, but it could be an evergreen title for them. I think they could always sell Harry Potter's. They, they could probably always sell wizard of Oz's if they wanted to continue run. So we'll see. Let's go over to spooky pinball and Greg, I will show, and I feel bad. I'm sharing my moments first here. So if you want to jump in anytime, let me know. You lead, you lead. All right. Memorable moment for me, Spooky Pinball this year. And they had a hell of a year. But for me this year, it was going with you and Zach to Benton, where Spooky Pinball headquarters are at. That's where they make their games, Benton, Wisconsin. I never had been there before. And other than talking to Corwin, Bug, here and there at pinball shows, never really got a chance to sit down and just kind of talk. And that was a unique opportunity to go down there. They kind of showed me the facilities, you know, multiple buildings they have, how they've grown this business from, you know, the small, almost like a little shed to this massive compound of of manufacturing buildings. And then to to sit back and kind of take a part in recording the content for the launch of the Beetlejuice game. That was that was a really cool moment for me this year, one that I remember for a long time, because, again, I've always had a lot of respect for Spooky Pinball as a company. and ideally i just figured that they were going to be good quality people just on how they kind of have always presented themselves not only publicly but in like some of the some of the smaller private conversations i would have with them i have with them at pinball shows and they didn't disappoint i mean it's just the vibe at spooky pinball is there's not anything like it anywhere else in in the industry as far as i'm concerned and i've visited a lot of these different uh companies and uh it's just it's different and it's it's their accessibility i think i think you know it's not just the, I won't blame it on like that small time family feel or whatever. It's just literally their accessibility and, you know, their presence in the community. I think that goes a long way. And I think that that's a lot of what, what you're, you're kind of talking about that kind of separates them and, and makes everything feel quite a bit different than other pinball manufacturers. Yeah. It's, it's what you're seeing online and what you're seeing on their socials, just kind of happy and jovial and good sense of humor, but good business sense. I mean, that's pretty much what you're getting when you go over there. There's not a they're not flipping a switch where there are different people because there are people in pinball that and, you know, whatever. I mean where you are looking at or listening or watching somebody completely different in a public you know persona versus privately And that OK I mean whatever uh it very true as to for the most part for what you seeing online and what you getting privately which is which is refreshing and beetlejuice was obviously a big hit i mean man and saying like crazy kind of rock the market a little bit with stuff so you know that that's going to be an interesting thing going into 2026 to see i mean we're already seeing a lot of crazy stuff with interested list and with put me on this and what's the next title i don't want to miss out these limited games that sort of thing so we're already seeing that shake up um but i can't imagine what what 2026 is going to bring in that aspect and especially you know on the release of their next game it's going to be kind of i don't know i i it is it's already a little bit just beetlejuice isn't even shipping and there's chaos on the next release there is and i've never seen anything like that. They've built something special and they've got the sweet spot, right? For how many units they want to make versus how many units they could sell more. We talked about this. They can sell more units. They just, they don't feel like they need to do that right now. It's not in their interest. It's not where they want that company to head for the moment. So we'll see what happens. But yeah, spooky pinball trending up as, as Zach would say, a hundred percent for 2025. Let's give away another prize pack, Greg. Sound good? Yeah. We're going to give away days five and day six. Day five, Greg. So this was our listener appreciation prize. And the winner of this one can come on and do a guest appearance on a future Flip N Out Pinball podcast episode with us. Did you know about this? I don't even know if you knew about this. Okay, you did. Or if they didn't feel comfortable jumping on an episode, because not everybody's cut out for that, including us sometimes, they can help shape an episode. So maybe they could come up with a concept or go over some show notes, and we would kind of customize the show based on what they wanted to hear, and we would put it out there. So the winner of that prize, congratulations and I'm sorry, Mitch Stogdill. Mitch Stogdill is the winner of the Listener Appreciation Prize. So you get to co-host an episode or shape an episode with us if you'd like. That's up to you. Come on, Mitch. You've got to come on. We'll walk you through it. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that would be a fun dynamic. Anyways, we'll just see what happens. Day six. This was the Stern Pinball play pinball sign, which was cool. It's an exclusive to the Stern Pinball store. It is. It's a nice sign. It's a pricey sign. It's an expensive sign. You can only get it at sternpinball.com or by answering the day six contest. And the winner of the Stern Pinball sign is Jeff Livingood. Jeff Livingood. you are the winner of day six the stern pinball play pinball sign you can email us at flip the letter n out pinball podcast at gmail.com to claim your prize can are you not waiting for somebody to be like hey i couldn't get a hold of you guys because i i literally tried your email and i put in p i n l e t t r in you told me letter in i put letter in that is true maybe we should get that also that flip The letter N. That'd be a long, that'd be a long, that'd be the international rescue of email links. But the next, the next prize, the next company I wanted to jump into as we kind of get into, I would say competing boutiques at this point, Spooky Pinball. The juxtaposition would be Barrels of Fun over there. And, you know, obviously they released Winchester this year. And my moment of 2025 for Barrels of Fun was the way in which they had a true, genuine surprise reveal was very refreshing to me because it's not. We're so used to pretty much knowing what titles are months, sometimes, if not years in it, like Dutch Pinball. We know they're doing Back to the Future. Whenever it comes out, I don't know. But I mean, they dropped a game out of nowhere. And unless you you didn't know, nobody knew what was going on. And by the time the game sold out, you were days after that. People didn't even know that game had come out and that game was sold out. So for me, you know, I don't know that they want to do that all the time. But that was something that I nobody saw coming. That was something that I appreciated. And I thought they they really executed it really well. When you get a whole team that can keep a secret, something that big. That's huge. And then the other thing with Barrels of Fun that I really appreciated this year was just seeing a new designer be introduced with Carl D'Python Anghelo. I think is huge because fresh designers in pinball, fresh approach. This guy's a professional pinball player. This guy knows games in and out. He knows code. So for him to have to be lead on a game and to have a theme that we like, that spooky Winchester theme, memorable year for me for Barrels of Fun. Well, and that's like three things to note on that is not only, you know, because I a million percent agree, like it was very refreshing to see that that drop, that secret, that that, you know, them keeping that cat in the bag sort of thing. But it was also just so great to see the success of that. And it was great in conjunction with that to see them take a risk like that is a huge risk to do a theme like that. And so really good point. And so to see that be successful is amazing. And, you know, on the point of Carl, I love seeing people who are that good of a player who've put that much into the hobby with his streams and his filming and everything that he does. Like, I love to be able to see that come full circle and for them to be able to work and do something in this hobby that they're passionate about and to be able to take it to the next level and do something like become a pinball designer. You know, I love I love seeing him be able to have this opportunity. And I love to be able to see the feedback that he was successful in doing that. You know, people love the way that game shot, because it's one thing to have that opportunity and it's another to succeed with that opportunity. And so it was just so good to see Carl be able to do this. Like, so that's a really good point. Right. Because, I mean, sentimental value or an opinion of somebody only goes so far. I mean, that's a lot of money to invest in somebody because you just want to support that person. And he did a really good job. The line that was at Expo to play that Winchester when it had come out was never less than like 40 or 50 deep. And it wrapped around the whole flipping out pinball booth. And it was a huge deal. So, yeah, congratulations. And you're super happy for Barrels of Fun. David David Van Es and Brian Savage, the whole team over there. Good job, guys. Now just make the games, please. Let's go. No, let's get back there. See them released. Right. And let me know if you're going to do some show games. Maybe I can get one of those bad boys. I know. I still want one. I'm so mad. I know. Well, that was the biggest disappointment of the year for me was sleeping on the Winchester for 12 hours and waking up and it's gone. And I will say this. I want to throw in a little – I guess I'm speaking on a turn, a little behind-the-scenes stuff here. So you and I, we went to Expo and we saw all that and we had Dune there in our booth and everything. and Dune uh Dune Dune was it's it's a good game I always thought it was a good game Zach absolutely loved Dune uh but you know I don't think a lot of people really got their hands on it didn't really just because nobody again was clamoring for Dune so I don't think a lot of people had the opportunity to play it it's still a semi-rare game and when you and I came back from expo we were like uh Zach we need to order more like we need to order more we were adamant about that and he was very hesitant he's like i don't know man he's like you know our sales were fine they're they're good but i don't know about investing you know i don't want to be stuck with the games you know just our normal business of course yeah of course but we were both adamant multiple times like listen you didn't get to see what we saw you didn't get to hear the feedback that we heard listen like this game is going to have a resurgence you know it kind of got overshadowed by Harry Potter really bad. Just that, you know, that was a bad launch for it to be able to compete against a title like Harry Potter. So I was like, you just didn't get to see what we saw. Like I'm telling you. And, you know, he took our advice and he leaned into it. And sure enough, like we have seen those probably double in sales almost. Well, we sold out our December run. Yeah. We sold out our January run. Yep. And now we're almost sold out of our February run. Exactly. So, yeah, I mean, not to sound salesy, but if you want to get a Dune, just email us. They're going to cut production here at the very end of this month. That's going to be kind of basically the last call for that game. And, you know, they basically said we can't 100% say that we won't ever run it again, but we run in, you know, obviously, can you coming from manufacturing know this? Yeah. That parts are ordered in batches. That's how they're affordable. So it might not make sense ever unless the people are super clamoring for it in the future that they will ever run it. So while it's not a 100% no, it seems like it's highly unlikely that after this, they're not going to run that game anymore. If I had to guess, Greg, this is the final call. I think so too. And I think that they don't want to paint themselves in the corner by saying that because in the event there is like this crazy resurgence where they can move another 500 of them. It's not fairer than what it is. Of course. Yes. Of course. But I think any new company is looking to kind of move forward, and they're still so young. They don't need a game that they need to go back to. They've got, what, three games out at this point? Yeah. And they've still got a lot of Winchesters to make, man. 500? Yeah. That's not a drop in the hat. So they've still got that. They've got other games in the pipeline. So I agree with you. While I'm not speaking for them, I have that feeling as well that this is probably going to be the last thing. So, yeah, if you guys are looking for a Dune, you've been on the – because I've had that happen, too, since that announcement. I probably sold three this week just because people were like, oh, I wasn't expecting that. I know I've kind of been on the fence about it and kind of back and forth with you. Let's do this. Let's get the order in. Let's get the deposit. I want this game, and I don't want to miss on it. Email us, ken at flippingoutpinball.com or greg at flippingoutpinball.com. For Dune, it's just a deposit. So you put your deposit down, and the balance is collected when your game comes in. Non-refundable deposit, by the way. Non-refundable, non-transferable. That's a good topic to get into. I love non-refundable deposits. Yeah, so good job. Good job, Barrels of Fun. Good job. Let's do another prize pack, Greg. What do you say? Yeah. We're going to do day seven, day eight, and day nine. Okay? And the reason we're doing all three of those is they were all pinball-signed playfields. And just coming off that discussion over there about Barrels of Fun, day seven was a team-signed labyrinth pinball playfield from Barrels of Fun. so you know and and the playfields are obviously not populated it's play field with the with the printed artwork clear-coated amazing wall hanger great collectible uh the team signing those those make them a little bit even more special uh so day seven is going to go to uh jonathan swanson you're going to win the team signed labyrinth pinball playfield from barrels of fun day eight was a jersey jack pinball uh team signed harry potter playfield which is greg's game of the year Harry Potter and, you know, one of the more popular titles released in recent memory. That's going to go to Kevin Hart. Kevin Hart. You. Yeah, actually, we know Kevin. Yeah. Kevin Hart gets the Jersey Jack pinball team signed Harry Potter playfield. Congratulations, Kevin. And then day eight is from Spooky Pinball. This is a huge prize. Spooky donated an evil dead team signed playfield. And that is beautiful. And that is going to go to Corey Branton. Corey Branton, you've won the Spooky Pinball Team Signed Evil Dead Playfield. You guys can claim your prizes. You're going to email us at flip, the letter N out, flippingoutpinballpodcast at gmail.com. We will verify you as the winner, and we will get everything out to you. The last day that we have is the Flipping Out Pinball huge prize pack, right, with all the accessories. we're going to give that away shortly. I also wanted to make mention with the prizes, with all due respect, it's not going to be Amazon Prime shipping on these. We're going to go through the holiday. These will go out sometime in January, and we will send tracking numbers when they go out. So once we confirm you're the winner of the prize, you know, we will get it out to you, I promise. But, you know, let's not be in a position where every day you're, hey, just wondering if my CGC T-shirt shipped yet. Yes, please don't. It'll be in January. sometime in January and I don't know how many days are in January was it 30 31 you want to hear a neat story speaking of uh playfields and and rare odd things so I I think you know this story but I don't know I don't think and I guess there shouldn't be any reason I'm not allowed to say it or talk about it so back uh when Pirates of the Caribbean came out Zach and I uh we went up and we did the uh it was sort of a featurette at the time we did things very differently you know We were basically, it was almost like an interview with multiple shots and all this great stuff for straight down the middle and everything, just showing kind of the rules and the layout of the game and everything. And we were very early on. That was maybe the second game that we had done. And Eric, Eric, you're obviously his game. The entire team up there was very gracious to have us in. That was back at their old building and stuff. And we shot in Eric's office, which was just literally the tiniest little box just with playfields all over the place. And we were in there filming. and they were very this is for pirates for pirates of the caribbean yeah yeah yeah and uh you know you know this was still you know we never got paid we never did anything but they wanted to show their gratitude towards us so they gave us some gifts and one of those gifts was a pirates of the caribbean playfield and the entire team signed this playfield but that playfield was the ce playfield and at that time it was still they were doing because we were up there before the game was released had the three spinning disc in the middle and this is the bigger hole the bigger hole and yep that turned out to be the only ce playfield that they had they were getting ready to go to another show and they didn't have a ce playfield to show off this is my understanding of everything okay they literally i think had to scramble and print another playfield because we had basically the only one in existence yeah the ce play field that they had signed and stuff so and i think maybe that other one it might only be one of two in existence because that before that you know when before the ce where is that play field now where did it go it's hanging right over there on my wall is it over there you gotta do that i love it studio b yeah that's awesome so yeah it's kind of a cool little history thing because i i'm pretty sure like eric had wrote But Zach was like, oh, my God, man, like we actually gave you like the only play field in existence. Would you sell that play field for twenty five hundred bucks? No, no, not at all. Would you sell it for fifty thousand? Yes. Fifty thousand. Yes, you would. All right. I'm just curious. Yeah, I'm just curious. Do you remember? This is technically Zach and I's and he would kick me in the dick if I didn't sell that. Right. Well, you cut him twelve fifty on the side and then you guys, you know, it is what it is. Do you remember back in the day it was for the release of Willy Wonka? It was Jack Guarnieri reached out to it was you and Greg at straight down the middle. Right. Or Zach. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. It was. Hello. Wait, this isn't Zach. It was you and Zach. Zach and yourself from straight down the middle is myself and Bill Webb from Special One Lit Pinball Podcast. And then it was Jeff Patterson from This Week in Pinball. Yeah. They invited us into Bensonville, where the old kind of headquarters was for them. the manufacturing at the time was in Lakewood and they gave us that advanced screening of Willy Wonka before it came out. Yeah. And I think it was the first time any company had really invited any content creators in like a mass in a mass like that. Yeah. Yeah. To kind of get a screening and, and be under NDA and then help promote it launch. And that was pretty cool. That was fun. And that was, things were so much more simple back then, man, when you look at it now, it was, it's, it's so much, the whole landscape is so different, but that was, that was a really cool. it was cool to see you guys i think that's the first time it was the first time we worked together like we knew each other but it was like collaboration sort like yeah sort of collaboration like that we were we were kind of all in the mix together doing something yep yep and now look at us i know getting disinvited places that's all right we we got in in before the lock all right Other random stuff here. I don't know. Company-wise, there wasn't any other company that really made it. No, Chicago Gaming did Merlin's, which was nice. Rolled out the Merlin's. But again, we got a remake or whatever of a beloved theme. Yeah, Merlin's cool, man. It's just memorable for me. It's like, oh, that made my year for Chicago Gaming. Pinball Brother did Predator. Met with mixed reviews with no Arnold. I'm hearing good things, that people do enjoy the game, that it shoots fun, and it's pretty underrated. um you know i don't have a lot of time on it but you know good for good for them for getting that out uh that was another instance where expo i think i did it 100 expo did well for them so people were in line and people yeah it seemed like for the most part walked away with positive experience i have to say this too like i i'm glad to see stuff like that out of expo because uh from a manufacturer standpoint because these manufacturers put a lot into that distributors we put a lot into that. So to be able to see going to a show and see that pay off for everyone, I love that, dude. I love that because you just know that it's doing that we're supporting Expo, Expo's supporting us, it's working out for everybody. I just, I like to see success come off of a show and it help everyone out You know people get to play games it helps all of our customers out helps enthusiasts out but I like to see that manufacturers and distributors are also that it is an actual benefit to them It not just something you go do Yeah, I would agree 100%. And even us going back, I had this on my list. Memorable moments of 2025 was actually us getting that booth at Pinball Expo. I was grateful that Zach was willing to do it, made the investment. We got up there, and we had a great time promoting the brand. I think the big thing for us wasn't so much promoting any individual game that was there, But it was just, hey, the Flip N Out Pinball team, come hang out with us and come see what we offer. And I had a blast. We met so many people, you know, whether it be from, you know, you're doing Straight Down the Middle, working at Flip N Out Pinball, us doing the podcasts, me working at Flip N Out Pinball. And, you know, we talked about it before. You, I don't know, man, I don't know how you go anywhere in the pinball realm. You are highly, highly coveted. People want to get with the Greg Bone. And listen, I know that was tiring for you. but I know that at the end of the day, like that has to be pretty, Oh, it's, it's gotta feel good, man. It's gotta feel good. It feels, it does. It's fun. It's good. It's just good to see everybody. Like I, it's just fun like to put a smile on somebody's face. So, you know, you can take a picture and, you know, shake a hand and it makes somebody's day. Like I love that, man. That's what it did. We did not have one shit talker in that booth the whole time, because look, just like anywhere else in life, you've got people that appreciate you and you've got people that really don't. And some of the people that don't appreciate you will make it well known, whether it be online or behind the scenes. It's a very small community. All this information gets back to everybody. Well, but I will tell you this. From experience, I have found that those shit talkers, they don't do much of it in person. No, they do not. You're talking about the very different people in public versus behind closed doors. That's a lot of those people I have learned. because they're very different to your face than what they are on a keyboard or, you know, to other people. So, you know, while I do agree with you to an extent, some of those people, oh, hey, how's it going, Greg? I'm like, yeah, kiss my ass. You know what I love? Kiss my ass. The people that don't know that I know they're talking shit. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah. Somebody's comment will pop up somewhere. Yeah. And you know what? I'm not one to reach out and be like, hey, man. And I saw that you said this about me. Actually, I've done that once or twice on Pinside where somebody was just like completely giving me an unfair thing. And I contact them privately. I'm like, look, I appreciate your right to be able to say whatever you want. But then they still make excuses to you. Oh, man, you don't know. I was just saying, man. No, I didn't. Right. They try to defend like that you were never going to see their comment. Like you're on a public forum talking shit about somebody. And it's like they don't even realize at all or fathom that you could potentially read that or see the crap. And then when you call them out, they're just like, no, I didn't mean it that way. No, you're just taking it wrong. It's like, well, I probably shouldn't have said that. I was just having a bad day. It's like, dude, are you having a bad day? Why am I coming up in the way? You know, and it was if I reach out to you, it's only it's not because my feelings are hurt. It's because you've got something so egregiously incorrect. Exactly. That you're spewing that I just want to at least, you know, like the truth coming from me. I don't need an apology. I don't get that confused. Yeah, they think that it bothers, you know, it doesn't bother me from a feelings perspective. It bothers me because you're just wrong. You're right. Right. Right. And it's just like, at least at least so you know what's going on. And here's what's happening. No, no. Right. Right. And whatever shit we could spend, we could spend an entire, we could spend an entire episode on that. But yeah, but I've also had it where somebody will meet me at a pinball show and, you know, they would be talking some smack and, and, and, and they come up and they're just, they're different people. It's like, this is the dude talking all smack online and nice as pie over here. It's like, okay, whatever, whatever. I got you. I see how it works. You know, other thing that I super appreciative for 2025 man is doing a podcast with you. Always. I'll tell you what, we just told the story about the first time we kind of collaborated on any type of a pinball content, so to speak, was that a Willy Wonka launch, man. Look, we've been friends for a while. It's, it's different when you take a friendship And then you're working closely with somebody on something like this. And it can go either way. You know, sometimes it puts a little bit of a pressure on a relationship. Sometimes you just don't gel in that instance where conversations you have are organic and they flow. But when you're kind of forced to get behind a microphone and have those conversations, it makes it a little bit maybe a little bit more uncomfortable or there's a break in period. I'll tell you what, man, super, super easy and pleasant to do this show with you. And it's like it's even more fun than talking on the phone because I feel like we can be a little bit more involved and enthusiastic and maybe dramatic on certain things. All in good fun, good nature. But, man, I love it. Thank you for doing the show. And I can't wait to see where the show goes in 2026. But this as a creative outlet for me and to literally it be part of my job of flipping out pinball, I love it, man. I love it. I agree. Couldn't have said it better. The I did also want to thank our our Patreon members over there at Patreon dot com. We've got some cool stuff that we're going to be doing for you guys to end out the year. So not anything that we need to promote online, so to speak. But but hang tight. We've got some some cool stuff coming. And then finally. Do you have anything you want to add here before I before I wrap up my 2025? No. And this could honestly, man, this could probably go on for two or three hours. for the sake of people getting through this episode for the first time. I'm trying to keep it concise, right? But joining Flip N Out Pinball is the single greatest decision that I've made for myself personally and professionally in my life. And I wanted to, and I tend to say this as often as I can because I never want to take it for granted. I want to thank Zach and Nicole for the opportunity. I want to thank them for being excellent leaders, people that I respect, people that I was just taught. We were talking about this at the the fire pit when we had our trip over there to Evansville last week. Like I would go to war for these people. Oh, yeah, because that is how much I respect them. That is how aligned I am with their principles and their morals. And I've never been more motivated. I've never been more thankful in my life, especially when it comes to work. So I I just wanted to publicly say this again. Thank you, Zach. Thank you, Nicole. Thank you, Greg. I'm so pleased to be where I'm at, man. I wake up every single day and I love going to work and I don't mind working days off. I don't mind putting some work in on Sundays like I crave it. I love it. And if anybody has ever had an opportunity to do something like this, you know exactly what I'm talking about. So in 2025, that's what I'm most grateful for, you know, outside of my personal family is the Flip N Out Pinball opportunity. Yeah, they're great people, man. Very fair. I don't think people understand how good they are to us and how good of a business that they run. Now we're going to be called shills of Zach and Nicole. on Pennside. You hear those guys Win Schilling about their boss like it's bullshit. They can't feel that way. They can't feel like that. There's no way. I do. I will take the lie detector test. A million percent. We were talking about it a little bit earlier in the episode. We're not even close to the precipice of this company. Again, without getting too deep into the weeds, because as time goes on and and more information comes out. It's just, listen, this is, this is the place to be. It's a place to be at. It's like those old commercials. Remember the little commercials? Like we don't make a lot of the products you buy. We make a lot of the products you buy better. I love that. Oh, that's, that's flipping out pinball right there, bro. That's what, that's what Zach and Nicole do. I love that. And, uh, you know, anybody that I've spoken to that has, uh, ordered a game or has asked questions about a game or first time pinball buyers. Thankful for that correspondence too. Cause it's, It is nice to be able to kind of sit down and talk to somebody and put myself in their shoes. So many first time buyers. That's what really surprised me a lot. Like the last six months, man, I would say almost half the people that I'm personally dealing with. It is their first machine ever. Yeah. And I didn't realize I don't think pinball is has the capability to grow exponentially in the short term. It's probably more of a long term haul for that. But I can say with confidence that there are a lot more first-time pinball buyers than I ever thought that there were just by the small sample size that I have. And, you know, trust me, we move a lot of games. So for it to be almost half first-time pinball buyers, you know, definitely thankful for that. Well, in contrary to popular belief, I mean, I still feel like that the market is super strong. And we're seeing it, especially, like you said, like with a lot of these new people coming in. Like, I mean, we get to see the growth firsthand. you know that that's the thing is like you you will read you know forums and everything are great there's something else we could probably spend a lot of time on at some point forums and all that stuff is great you know being able to research things is great but a lot of times you just like anything you fall into a lot of misinformation you know on things of what people's perspectives are of things especially as hobbyists and something like you know we're front line like we we see the game sales we see the issues with games we see all of that so you know to me I think that we have a better hand and we have a better gauge on a lot of things going on in the market, whether it is issues with particular manufacturers, whether it is game sales, because we are literally on the front line. Like we deal with all that. We see it as a whole. We see it collectively throughout all manufacturers. So I think that that is, you know, something of seeing this influx of new people still coming into the hobby, buying their first games, people that are just getting introduced to the hobby. Like, you know, that's two different things. Like people buying their first game that may have been a hobbyist or an enthusiast for years and only played on location is also very different than somebody who just found the hobby and is now buying a new game after they discovered it a month or two ago. And we're seeing that as well, like a lot of that as well. So I think that we have our finger on the pulse very well. And to me, I think this hobby is still growing and growing exponentially. Like I said, slow, slow. It's a slow burn, but it's still growing. It's a consistent burn. I mean, it's trending in the right direction. And you're right. I mean, there's look, we are very one of the things that I always say, and I think I heard you say it at some point or maybe it was Zach. It's like if somebody's calling, they're asking questions. I will let them know. Look, we're enthusiasts before anything else. Right. Of course, we are. We are representatives of a company that is selling you a product. But that being said, very transparent about opinions, not to force somebody into my beliefs on anything, but just from my perspective, I try to give as much information as possible. and if somebody asks what I would recommend based on their specific needs or wants, I'm always happy to do that, but I'm bringing the receipts. I'm not trying to get you a game because we got to get rid of games or anything like that. Especially first impression, if you get a game that I don't think suits your needs and wants, I don't know how willing you are to give a second game a chance, but if you get a game that hooks you from the beginning, I think that you're obviously, I don't know very many people that buy one game and don't buy a second or a third or a fourth. It's in our benefit to be honest. Because it's like you said, like, like if, if you're, if you're disingenuous because you're trying to move one particular product and, and that game is not what that person is looking for, they're not going to be a repeat customer. It's like you said, like, like you, you, you want to be honest, you want to be honest and try to help them find something that's going to fit their play style, what they're looking for a theme or that a game, a game that they're going to enjoy because that, that's what brings them back. You know, that, that is, that is to me a key to business. So, you know, all the bullshit shill stuff aside that people want to spew when you're selling products, like, I don't feel that we ever fall into that because it's in our benefit. It's the opposite. It's more of our benefit to be honest than what it is to bullshit people because and to try to shill these games than what it is to, you know what I'm saying? Like, it just it's not in our benefit to just shill a product because that gets old and people won't come back. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and credibility is a real thing. We realize it. I mean, over the years and years and years, you build credibility. You don't want to throw that out or people's confidence in your ability to – Because I'll tell people. It's like what you said. You asked me my opinion on a game. I'm going to tell you my opinion on it. I'm not going to scour away from that. And, hey, we might not have that game in stock, and that sucks, and I hate that. But I'm not going to not tell you that I love this game or tell you that I love another game just because we have that one in stock and I can sell it to you. Like I'm, I'm telling you the game that we don't have might be the best game for you. And I sucks that we don't have it. There's a couple of titles. We have some surplus in, and I'm not really jumping out recommending it to anybody because it's just like, it's not one that, that appeals to me either. It just is what it is. So it's okay. It's okay. That stuff sells eventually. I mean, not worried about it. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. We're going to be, we're going to be upfront with you guys again. It's in your best interest, our best interest. And as Ken said, we're hobbyists first, man, and I'm going to tell you. And now, hey, that being said, our views might not always align with yours. I have a lot of people. I'm like, I don't recommend that game. Oh, really? Why not? Tell them. I'm going to order it anyways. Yeah. Hey, by all means. Oh, that happens a ton. Yeah, it does. It happens more than what you think. Somebody already has their mind made up, and then they're going to reach out to you because they need the reassurance that they made the right decision. And then when you counter it, you almost feel bad because, you know, it's just like, no, I'm still going to buy it. It's like, okay, well, you know, I appreciate the try. It does make me kind of feel bad because I'm like, oh, I didn't want to, like, take the wind out of your sails. But you asked my opinion and, like, it's cool that you want to go ahead and buy it. That's fine. But, like, I kind of feel guilty that I gave them my honest opinion at that point. Because I didn't want them to be like, oh, man. Oh, it's okay. It's okay. Good times are flipping out. Let's give away this last prize pack, and we can wrap this episode up on the Flip N Out Pinball podcast. The last one is day 10, and it was the Flip N Out Pinball Grand Prize Pack. And, Greg, it includes the following items. Venom pinball armor, which is actually pretty cool. I didn't realize how intricate that pinball armor is. It's pretty massive. The Avengers Infinity Quest pinball inner art blades. The Mandalorian pinball shooter knob. A Rush pinball translight. The Godfather pinball banner. A Jurassic Park pinball player mat. You're going to need that because you're going to be playing a lot of Jurassic Park. And then finally, two Flip N Out Pinball t-shirts. Your size is between small and I think 3X. So you're going to get all these items sometime in January. All right, so thank you, Zach and Nicole at Flip N Out Pinball, where we also work. You ready for the grand prize winner, Greg? Yes. Drum roll. the winner is chris dewitt oh do you know chris if it's the same chris dewitt i'm thinking of yeah oh all right chris dewitt chris dewitt you win the flipping out pinball prize pack day 10 you get all of that merchandise more it's like it's like the price is right showcase showdown what do you think it's worth greg what do you think it's worth oh i don't know and it's not one dollar so that's going to wrap up episode 16 flipping out pinball podcast it's the christmas eve holiday end of year show again patreon.com slash flipping out pinball podcast if you want to join up over there and you can support the show in a different way we're going to close out the year with our after hours party that's coming up where we'll all be live talking some pinball if you are looking for a new or used pinball machine please consider visiting us at flipping out pinball.com That's flip the letter N out pinball.com. You can see all the pinball machines. We've got golden tea. We've got buck hunters. We've got tons of different games and entertainment over there. Flipping out pinball accessories from Stern pinball, spooky pinball, Jersey Jack pinball, all the pinball companies at flipping out pinball.com. If you have game specific questions or you would like to place an order for a game outside of the website, you can contact Greg or myself individually. My email is Ken at flipping out pinball.com. Greg, what's your email? Greg at flip the letter in out pinball.com. Happy to answer some questions. And we actually have phones. So if we need to jump on the phone, we can do that too. Oh, and then finally, you know what I wanted to bring up? Remember how we hit the 1,000 threshold market, our pinball podcast, Facebook page, flipping. It's at 1.4K right now. It's growing exponentially like the pinball market. It was a slow burn, but now it's like it's on an uptick. So we're at 1.4K. Now we're going to be nearing in on that two mark. That's going to have to be our next level. I would agree. I was going to ask everybody this. Obviously, if you're here still, it's because you want to listen to the show because we already gave out the final prize, and you would have turned the episode off by then. But do we do a video next year occasionally for some of these podcasts? I think occasionally we can. Is that something that you guys would find any interest or value in? And I know the people that are listening to us right now on YouTube, we get like over a thousand views on YouTube on these audio podcasts with no video at all. But if you're if you're over at YouTube and you think that you'd benefit for some video like we could do some episodes. Let us know. Comment on the podcast. I don't know. In the YouTube comments, maybe or even on Facebook. Something we've been kicking around again occasionally, occasionally because we don't we don't need to do it all the time. So something to think about. You got anything else, man, before we shut it down for the year? 20-25? You said it all perfectly. Alright. Well, everybody, Happy New Year. Merry Christmas. Happy Holidays from Greg and myself at Flip N Out Pinball Podcast. Whatever you do, don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.