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Ep 58: The Super Awesome LoserKid Episode

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 46m·held·Apr 19, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

The Super Awesome Pinball Show announces shift to event-based production model.

Summary

Josh Roop and Scott Larson host Christopher Franchi, Christian Line, and Sarah (Mrs. Pin) from The Super Awesome Pinball Show on LoserKid A Pinball Podcast 58. The guests discuss their show's transition from weekly/biweekly production to event-based releases tied to new game launches, citing burnout and desire to maintain quality. They address community criticism around Twippies Awards campaigning, explain their hiatus as driven by personal/professional demands, and detail their new format: game-focused special episodes, 60-minute fireside chat conversations, and one-off content. Mrs. Pin shares updates on her backlogged podcast content and personal career challenges during the pandemic.

Key Claims

  • The Super Awesome Pinball Show is transitioning from weekly/biweekly episodes to producing shows only when new pinball games release, with additional one-off fireside chat episodes.

    high confidence · Christopher Franchi (SAPB co-host) speaking directly about the show's format change

  • JJP approached The Super Awesome Pinball Show and asked them to produce content around specific game launches (Guns N' Roses example cited).

    high confidence · Christopher Franchi explaining the origin of the new format: 'J.J.P. actually came to us and asked if we would do that.'

  • The show's hiatus was driven by perfectionism, time constraints, and family demands affecting both Christopher Franchi and Christian Line.

    high confidence · Christopher Franchi: 'I'm like a perfectionist and I can't... I just can't do less' and 'it was taken away from his family time too much as well.'

  • The Super Awesome Pinball Show received criticism and backlash during Twippies Awards voting for promoting their own nomination.

    high confidence · Franchi and Christian discussing taking 'shots left and right from people' for their modest Twippy campaign

  • Mrs. Pin has approximately five hours of recorded content in the editing pipeline that has not been released.

    high confidence · Sarah: 'I recorded like five hours of stuff... I just have not had time to like glue it all together and put it out.'

  • The gravestone image used to announce the show's hiatus was posted by Christopher Franchi without consulting Christian Line beforehand.

    high confidence · Franchi and Christian discussing: 'Well, cause I knew he would be for it' and 'You're kind of how you roll, Chris.'

  • Mrs. Pin's motivation to start her podcast came from watching Jack Danger stream on the Texas Pinball Festival broadcast while eating a pulled pork sandwich.

    medium confidence · Josh Roop recalling Mrs. Pin's origin story: 'you were watching Jack Danger at like Texas Pinball Festival... he was just like eating... pulled pork'

Notable Quotes

  • “we're going to stop doing the shows where we talk about the news and everything else because you can get that anywhere and we're just going to do a show every time a new game comes out.”

    Christopher Franchi @ mid-episode — Core announcement of the show's strategic pivot away from news/analysis toward game-launch-focused content

  • “I'm like a perfectionist and I can't, you know, what you see is what I do... I just don't have time to keep doing all of this work.”

    Christopher Franchi @ mid-episode — Explains the burnout driving the format change and justifies the hiatus to the community

  • “it is a very real thing because it's part of our lives and it's an important part of our lives, but it's such a blip on the radar screen of what's important in life.”

    Josh Roop @ late-episode — Philosophical perspective on maintaining perspective about pinball community drama vs. real-world priorities

  • “we don't believe in the paywall... we don't want to be the Kaneda, like not go out there and just be sensationalistic and try and talk about drama for drama's sake.”

    Christopher Franchi @ mid-episode — Articulates the show's ethos contrasting with other pinball media personalities, reference to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast

  • “I'm just going to do an episode. I get excited about that, even though I'm not – that's not me. Like I'm not a spontaneous guy. I need notes and stuff.”

    Christian Line @ late-episode — Contrasts Mrs. Pin's spontaneous podcast approach with Christian's structured preference, reveals production dynamics

  • “when you're up for an award, you want to let people know... there's no crime, there's no shame in saying, hey, there's an award for best podcast. And here's what we've done.”

    Christopher Franchi @ mid-episode — Defense of their Twippy Award campaign approach against community criticism of self-promotion

  • “I recorded like five hours of stuff... I just have not had time to like glue it all together and put it out. It's terrible.”

Entities

Josh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonChristopher FranchipersonChristian LinepersonSarah (Mrs. Pin)personThe Super Awesome Pinball ShowproductLoserKid Pinball Podcastproduct[name withheld pending review]product

Signals

  • ?

    product_strategy: The Super Awesome Pinball Show transitioning from regular weekly/biweekly production to event-driven releases tied to new game launches, with additional 60-minute fireside chat one-offs

    high · Franchi: 'we're going to stop doing the shows where we talk about the news... we're just going to do a show every time a new game comes out'

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball actively collaborates with The Super Awesome Pinball Show to create content around game releases, suggesting manufacturer investment in media partnerships

    high · Franchi: 'J.J.P. actually came to us and asked if we would do that' (Guns N' Roses example)

  • ?

    content_signal: High-production-value pinball podcasts facing sustainability challenges; perfectionism and time demands (affecting family) driving strategic consolidation of output

    high · Franchi: 'I'm like a perfectionist... I just don't have time to keep doing all of this work'; mentions impact on Christian's family time

  • ?

    community_signal: Significant community tension around Twippy Award voting; modest self-promotion by nominees drawing backlash and criticism, suggesting taboo against visibility/campaigning

    high · Franchi and Christian discussing negative reactions to their Twippy campaign; Josh noting 'weirdly amount of taboo around Twippy voting'

  • ?

    community_signal: Interpersonal negativity and unsolicited criticism in pinball podcast community affecting creators' mental health and show sustainability

    high · Franchi: 'there was a lot of negative things... I cannot achieve the thickness of thick skin that I need' and discussion of lies/false claims made about them

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.319

0:00
thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast we are on episode 58 i am i am josh roop with me my co-captain as always scott larson and scott we have some wonderful guests on this evening wonderful it's wonderful you know it but before we do that let's hurry and talk about our friends of the podcast really quick all right so for the next five minutes strap yourself in let's talk about the friends. Okay. First and foremost, flipping out pinball. If you want to pick up that new pinball machine, you're a little bored at being home on your COVID year. Now it's time to celebrate with a new Avengers Infinity Quest or a Jurassic Park or even a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Contact Zach and Nicole at flipping out pinball. They will be able to hook you up. Also, if you're really curious about the top five things in pinball, the best thing to do is go over this week in pinball. Jeff Patterson's site has a nice summary. They just barely celebrated their Twippy award show. And so go ahead and check out those winners. Also, Pinball Supernova is another resource for you. Go check it out. There's some links to different things and tutorials and also some, I think I just got a fax or something. Okay. Now that the faxes are in, we just check out Pinball Supernova. They have a lot of resources there and a good way to hook you up. Also, Flyland Designs, if you want to check out alternative translights and art packages for those classic Williams Valley games, I actually just picked up some art blades for my Medieval Madness, and so it's a good way of giving a fresh look at your old pinball machine. Also, if you want to display those translights on the wall and you want a fun way of doing it, go ahead and check out Brad Hunter at Lit Frames. It's a good way of throwing in those translights that are just collecting dust and you're tired of hauling them to shows to get signatures. If you want to see your pinball on location a little easier, check out Pinshades. They have polarized lenses that help you see all the way to the back of the playfield, kids. So that actually helps us take some good on-site pinball playing. Next, Radey Pinball. If you want to learn how to play that pinball machine, you can go ahead and check out, uh, Raymond. Uh, he's kind of good, uh, currently world number one. Uh, also, uh, the pinball loft, uh, check it out. Uh, it's my, uh, friend's blog about, uh, his machines. And if you want to know a way to really, uh, upscale your, uh, uh, Guns and Roses collector's edition, he actually found a way to add even more sound, uh, to his, uh, Guns N' Roses Pinball Collector's Edition. I think his goes to 11.

The podcast community maintains significant informal politics around Twippies Awards voting, including unspoken taboos about campaigning.

medium confidence · Josh Roop: 'there is a weirdly amount of taboo around Twippy voting'

Sarah (Mrs. Pin) @ late-episode — Status update on Mrs. Pin's Pinball Podcast backlog, signals content pipeline challenges

  • “We still talk to them all the time, but... [Head to Head] were phenomenal.”

    Christian Line @ late-episode — Acknowledges Head to Head Pinball as foundational podcast influence and ongoing relationship

    • Jersey Jack Pinball
    company
    Flip N Out Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    Jack Dangerperson
    Head to Head Pinballproduct
    Kaneda's Pinball Podcastproduct
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Avengers: Infinity Questgame
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtlesgame
    Medieval Madnessgame
    Twippies Awardsevent
    This Week in Pinballproduct
    Pinball Supernovaproduct
    Flyland Designscompany
  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Gravestone imagery used to signal hiatus was widely interpreted as show cancellation/death, causing confusion and negative reaction from community members who perceived abandonment

    high · Josh: 'the gravestone was the thing that people thought you guys were dead because that relates to death'; Franchi: 'that gravestone picture, which was really kind of, it was kind of premature'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Christian Line expanding professional responsibilities with American Pinball and Chicago Gaming Company, contributing to pinball podcast time constraints

    medium · Josh: 'Franchi, you've talked about the different projects you've now been associated with between American Pinball and with CGC'

  • ?

    content_signal: Mrs. Pin's Pinball Podcast has significant unedited content (5+ hours) including coverage of recent major events (Stern competition, Twippies, Guns N' Roses launch) awaiting release

    high · Sarah: 'I recorded like five hours of stuff... I just have not had time to like glue it all together and put it out'

  • ?

    community_signal: Multiple pinball podcasts experiencing simultaneous production challenges and hiatuses, suggesting broader sustainability issues in the niche media space

    medium · Multiple podcasts mentioned (SAPB, Mrs. Pin, LoserKid) discussing production slowdowns, backlogs, and format changes in same conversation

  • ?

    operational_signal: Sarah's role as an educator (implied healthcare/teaching) has been severely impacted by pandemic workload, affecting ability to contribute to content creation

    medium · Sarah: 'this is right around the time when we decided to cash in is around the time of Twippy voting'; discussion of her workload being '37 days away' from relief; multiple references to pandemic being 'hardest year'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: The Super Awesome Pinball Show explicitly positioning itself as positive/inclusive alternative to sensationalistic competitors; avoiding paywall models and drama-focused content

    high · Franchi: 'we don't want to be the Kaneda, like not go out there and just be sensationalistic... we don't believe in the paywall'

  • $

    market_signal: Increased visibility of female pinball media personalities (Mrs. Pin, mentioned as 'only woman on the podcast'); community recognition of their contributions to ecosystem

    medium · Sarah: 'I mean, I'm the only woman on the podcast, so I think, I think they've got it' and extensive discussion of her show's impact and origin story

    • 2:56
    And, oh, also we have a streamer on. Hey, Josh, who's the new streamer on board? Is it us? Oh, it's us. Well, it's really you, but go ahead. I've only done three episodes, and honestly, you know, just subscribe to us. We may or may not do more. I don't know. I'm having fun with it. He's going to do it. He's totally going to do it. He's got the fun. All right, Josh. Who do we have with us today? Well, I'm super excited to have these guests on today. You may say they're awesome. They are very awesome. I know a lot of people are very upset. I know that when we did Pinball Players Podcast, Joe Lemire was crying on the other end as we talked about this wonderful – you only call them a podcast, right? It was a show. It was a legit produced show. It was a production. And we want to welcome them on now. We've got Franchi, Christian, and his wonderful wife, Mrs. Penn, Sarah. How are you guys doing? Hello. Hey. I'm totally lost. You said – I thought you were doing like a last name, first name. So Franchi, Christian is – so Mrs. Penn, are you married to Franchi? Is this how this works? That's not how this works. Oh, okay. Do I need to do full titles? Oh, no. I need to demand full disclosure here. How much money do you guys actually make per episode off of these sponsors? That was a lot of sponsors. You know, the good news is I've been able to get new pinball machines, and so that's what I'm funding my addiction with. All right. If you get something, that's cool. Fair enough.
    4:37
    And might I say that it's a great pleasure to be here. I always wanted to know what it's like to be on an award-winning podcast. Oh.
    4:45
    Yeah. Ouch. Congratulations, though. In all seriousness, though, you guys deserve that award. Well, what's funny is I never – like up against you guys, like the criteria that they gave, it was funny because like I didn't believe we were going to win because you guys had done such an awesome job. You'd done your Christmas show. I mean there was so much in-depth to your guys' show. It was a fully produced show. There's no other way to put it. I don't like calling it a podcast because I feel like podcast doesn't give the name justice. So when they said that we had won, I was so confused because I thought it was you guys. Well, you guys are awesome ambassadors for the hobby. I think you've done amazing shows. You're great people in general, and you've had some really phenomenal guests on. And handsome. And you're handsome. You are. You were very happy to see you guys. And it goes a long way. And if there was an award for the most epic fashion line, you would definitely win that too. Oh, okay. That's, that is absolutely true. And we have, we have, we have limited edition car wraps that are coming out. And so it's one loser kid car. I want action figures. I just have to tell you guys, can I interrupt for one second? So go for it. It was very, very nice. This is Mrs. Pin from Mrs. Pin's pinball podcast. I mean, I'm the only woman on the podcast, so I think, I think they've got it. I think they've got it. But so anyway, so you sent us these Loser Kid t-shirts, the red ones and red and black with the white logo on them. And I have since stolen my husband's. Yeah. It's all true. And legitimately get very, very angry and upset whenever it is dirty. She lives in this shirt. Like this is her go-to shirt. Oh, my God. My all-time fave. Okay. Is it the baseball one with like the three-quarter? Yes. Yeah. OK, but also you guys did some reciprocity and you sent me back a boatload of loser kids swag with some super awesome pinball and some Mrs. Pin stuff. So I think that we've done a pretty good job about about exchanging the swag. So, yeah, yeah, it's important. The most the most awesome part of that was this shirt picture that we got from you with you rocking the the tank top that we sent to your wife. And you've got a much larger build than she does. So you were bulging out of this thing. And you sent us a picture of it. And it was phenomenal. Okay, here's the best part about it is that I put it on and took the picture. And in my mind, I was thinking of like an awkward wrestler pose. You remember in like the 80s and 90s how you would go and work out and you had to have a shirt on. So I have no idea where these muscle guys got the idea for this shirt. But it was like this string bikini type thing with this loose thing. So I thought it'd be fun to take a picture and send it. And I showed it to my wife and she's like, what is wrong with you? What did you do? Because it seriously looks like, it doesn't even look like a sexy picture. It just looks like a really awesome fail from my, I don't know, my online profile for dating. It's like, yeah, I'm working out and people are like, oh, it's quite left. It should be. Swipe left. Yeah.
    8:05
    No, it was a great picture, though. We love it. It was. It really was. That could be like awkward family photos, you know, that line of cards that they have at like Target. You could totally, totally sell it to them.
    8:15
    Like live in the stud life. That's what it would say. Yes. Somebody's got to do it in that tank top.
    8:24
    You guys got to agree, though. Like the super awesome pinball like t-shirt line is amazing. These themes that Franchi's coming up with for the monthly Silver Ball swag stuff is awesome as well. I'm apparently trying too hard. I just need to draw a circle with a line through it.
    8:40
    You know what? Maybe Josh can give you some lessons on art. Yeah. Yeah, I'd appreciate that because our sportswear line needs a shot in the arm. well yeah the t-shirt line is fun because it gives me a chance to do some pinball related stuff that's not necessarily pimping the the brand um but we should we should really sort of get into that so that some of this stuff might make more sense because i'm kind of dancing around a little bit of subject here um you know if you guys want to talk about Talk about the floor.
    9:16
    The floor is yours. No, I want you to ask me a question, damn it. Okay, tell me about your swag. Not the swag. How can I get your face on my shirt?
    9:29
    Invite me over and give me a bottle of rum. Sold. No, the, you know, Christian and I sort of need to clear the air on what is going on with the show. because it's not actually necessarily dead. Okay.
    9:48
    And Christian and I have kind of been going back and forth on this as to how to do it. I wanted to do it weeks ago, and he's like, no, no, no, let's just wait. And I'm like, yeah, but people think we're just done and gone. And then, like, when we come back, you know, a month and a half later, they're going to be like, oh, you guys are dicks, you know. So, yeah, we kind of need to clear the air on what's going on. What we decided to do was quit doing the weekly show or the biweekly show because it was just too much.
    10:17
    I'm like a perfectionist and I can't, you know, what you see is what I do. You know, the show that you've heard is what I do. I can't do less because I just nitpick crap until I get it to where I want. So I already know I can't do a scaled down show. And I just don't have time to keep doing all of this work. And even, you know, Christian will agree that it was taken away from his family time too much as well. So what we decided to do was when – do you remember the Guns N' Roses show that we did? Yes. How could you forget that one? Well, you know, J.J.P. actually came to us and asked if we would do that. Well, what we decided to do is that we're going to stop doing the shows where we talk about the news and everything else because you can get that anywhere. and we're just going to do a show every time a new game comes out.
    11:12
    And it's going to be like that. So the whole show is going to be focused around the release of that game. We're going to have the people on, the designers, you know, the artists, whatnot, and just do a show about that when the game comes out. In some cases, it'll be at the same time. In Stern cases, it will be a little bit afterwards.
    11:31
    But that's basically what we're going to do. And we're also talking about doing some other one-off different things. One of the things that I'm going to do is a fireside chat show, which would be about 60 minutes long. And it's going to be, you know, with people from the pinball industry. But it's not going to be so much an interview as it's going to be a conversation. Kind of like the Stern Insider, but not behind a paywall, right? right yes exactly because because you know yeah we don't believe in the paywall we've never gotten a nickel for doing any of this stuff i want to know when your deep red episodes coming out i want to know about raza when's the raza episode coming up yeah i'm on the same boat as you are scott about deep root but i was always kind of uh held back by ed when ed was on our show because Deep Root sponsored our show. So I would literally go off on 20-minute tirades. And at the end of the show, Ed would be mega pissed and tell me that I have to cut that out. And I did. Understandably. Understandably. Right. I mean, another thing we wanted to do with our show is not be the Kaneda, like not go out there and just be sensationalistic and try and, you know, talk about drama for drama's sake. We wanted to try and be open to everybody and not necessarily be a yes man, but be a positive force on the podcast community. And just not try to stay away from negative stuff because I try to keep my drama level to an absolute minimum. So I'm happy that this new direction of the show is just what's exciting, what's new, what's fresh. if there is a you know if there's a new game reveal or there's something really cool to talk about we'll come back and and do a special show but it's not like an every two week kind of thing um because you know there were plenty of moments where chris and i would would be on the phone together and we would say all right what are we going to do you know what's what's our next show who who's on our guest list and who's on our wish list and it was just it was tough to sit there it was too much pressure we didn't we didn't want that timeline we wanted to just do do it when it was fun. And I think that's kind of what we're moving towards now. So it may not be every month. It may not be every two months, but when we do it, it'll be for a good reason. And it's going to be awesome. Yeah. It'll be super awesome. Yes, it will. Super awesome. And Chris is just a creative dude, right? He excels at just being creative. So I'm excited to see what he does because he's got a bunch of ideas that he wants to put out there on the airwaves. He just did like a radio show and he's got this fireside chat, like one hour kind of interview thing that he's doing. So there's going to be a lot of cool stuff coming from the podcast moving forward, just not on a regular timeline. Honestly, reading all your guys' posts and whatnot, I mean, I guess you could take it. I think the gravestone was the thing that people thought you guys were dead because that relates to death. But I think a lot of it, the way I viewed it, is you guys were getting super busy. I know that you've talked about Franchi, you've talked about the different projects you've now been associated with between American Pinball and with CGC.
    14:48
    And not talking to them specifically, but just generalizing, saying, hey, I'm doing more and more projects now. And my main work supersedes this because it's a free show that you put a lot of time into. And we all, at least Scott knows how anesthesiologist stuff goes. And my cousin's a teacher, so I know how busy that can be, Sarah, especially during all this pandemic stuff too. It's been a rough year, not going to lie. Yeah, it was tough to squeeze in.
    15:18
    I'm not going to candy coat things either. There was a lot of negative things that I could not, I don't know why, but for some reason I cannot achieve the thickness of thick skin that I need to do this.
    15:35
    And when we take, when I know the amount of effort that Christian and I put into the show and getting pot shots taken at us for doing it, a lot of times I couldn't just sit back and go, ah, whatever. Sorry, I swore. You're fine.
    15:52
    Some people are just jerks, and that's just the way it goes. You have to learn to live with it. When it gets to be, you know, this is right around the time when we decided to cash in is around the time of Twippy voting, and we put together sort of a very modest little campaign you know, because when you're up for an award, you want to let people know, you know, there's no crime, there's no shame in saying, hey, there's an award for best podcast. And here's what we've done. If we've earned your vote, you know, vote for your favorite, you know, hopefully it's us. That's the way we kind of approached our campaign. And we were taking shots left and right from people for like that we were begging for votes. And then there's a lot of lies of things that we did that we didn't do. We literally just put one post out and then just got bombarded.
    16:42
    Listen, for me, for me, it was never a, I was never sensitive about that stuff, but I did appreciate that for the amount of time you guys know how much time it takes to put into a podcast and make it good. Like you want to, you want to put out a product, a product that is a representative of how much time you put into the show. And we put a ton of time into it. And so it was tough. I think it was especially tough for Franchi because he put so much work into it and he he didn't like to hear negative comments about anything that we did because, listen, we're doing it for free. We are you know, we're we're trying to produce something that's for everyone and is entertaining and we're trying to get good guests and a good show. Positive. And stay positive. Yeah. But but it was I think it was it was tough. And I totally appreciate that it was hard to hear that criticism for me in one ear out the other. But but that's part of kind of how I roll. I don't want to get brought down by any of that drama. I just try to keep it out of my life.
    17:47
    Well, and from our perspective, too, it's really hard because there is a weirdly amount of taboo around Twippy voting. I know during our time So when the pre-voting had started I had lost a really close friend She was young She left behind a two-year-old daughter She was going through a divorce So things just got so So messy so quick And Scott and I had just been like You know life's more important right now And we just kind of Stepped away for a second We still did the 50th episode What not that month but I was just, I was so preoccupied with other things. So I wasn't super shocked when people had, had messaged or when, when we got the message that we hadn't made the top 10. And that's a great point, man, because honestly, when it comes down to it, it's a pinball podcast, which is so silly in and of itself. And for you and us, it is a very real thing because it's part of our lives and it's an important part of our lives, but it's such a blip on the radar screen of what's important in life. And so we have to keep that in mind. And that's why I try never to get emotional about it because it's just not worth it. Um, and, and why we're kind of doing what we're doing now, which is try to do it when it's fun and when it's worthwhile and just turn out all of the other noise that's out there and try and not let it get to us. Shut it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you know, the one thing that really burned my ass is when we put up that, that, uh, that gravestone picture, which was really kind of, it was kind of premature. Like, I don't think I even talked to Christian about it yet. That's kind of how you roll, Chris. That's kind of how you roll. Well, cause I knew he would be for it. I knew he was having trouble. He was having trouble telling me, I could sense that he wanted to say, dude, like, I just don't have time for this. We need to, we need to, you know, something needs to give here.
    19:41
    But when we put the tombstone picture up and then you guys shared that picture and then you put like a mopey face on it or something. And some commented on it and he just wrote me like that kind of just scorches my ass. Cause it's like all the work that we put into it. And then you're saying, you know, Oh, you know, our friends podcast is, is, you know, gone and we're so sad and these guys are like me like, what man, if I could kick somebody in the nuts, Oh God, I hate people. it's not it's not worth your time like that's my whole thing like if somebody if somebody doesn't like me and they don't want to listen to me and then they don't have to and if i go on a six-month hiatus because i'm totally drowning in you know third grade then you know it is like again this is nobody's career so you just gotta let it go right i was brought up with that if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all i don't know why people can't subscribe to that They just take the chance. And that guy probably listened to our show too. Just like, I'm just going to be a dick. Meh. There. He's probably going to get pissed when he sees that now.
    20:52
    Sarah, all I can say is you keep trying. You'll graduate third grade in no time. I know. I'm so excited. I just feel like I'm so close. It's like 37 days away and I just really can't wait. Yeah. This has been the hardest year for a lot of people. But I know in my wife's career, it's been definitely the hardest year. Oh, like by times a thousand times a million. I mean, Scott, you and I know how much time goes into being a physician. I, there's no question in my mind that Sarah works harder than I do. And she puts in way more hours than I do. So it's, you know, it's been just not at like 3am usually, right? Like some occasionally at 3am, not usually. Right. No epidurals, but lots of grading papers. He shoved a bottle where and we have to knock him out. Yeah, you have to what?
    21:42
    No, it's actually the worst thing is I hate being on call on Easter weekend because I did not know to celebrate the resurrection of our Lord and Savior that you went out to the sand dunes and got completely drunk and then used high power motorized vehicles at high velocity. and I you know the crazy thing is people get hurt doing that and it's but I swear the time they celebrate yes yes yeah no we've sworn our kids off of four-wheelers and motorcycles donor cycles as you and I know them snowmobiles yes yeah actually do you know what it's uh but also snow blowers like I keep your kids off the snow blower oh yeah don't ride the snow blower especially while you're drunk. No, no, but seriously, there is a nurse at work where I looked at her like, hey, what happened to your finger? She's like, okay. I'm like, wait, don't tell me it was a snowblower. Oh, no. Yep. Yep. Snowblower got jammed. In central Pennsylvania, we have a Stoltzfus trauma scale because we have a lot of Amish out here and there's a ton of Amish trauma that comes into the hospital. Lots of hay holes. You probably don't know what that is, but watch out for the hay hole.
    22:59
    Is that like where the pitch fork goes through their leg or something? No. It's literally the second floor of the barn where you fall through the hole. It's where you drop the hay from the second floor of the barn, but a lot more than hay drops through that hole and people get hurt. Yep. Oh, see, I was going somewhere else.
    23:18
    Well, my in-laws own a farm and they produce hay, but I'm like, I've never heard of the hay hole. this must be it's worth it they're clearly safe it's a central pennsylvania kind of thing yeah okay well okay but sarah let's talk about mrs pin's pinball podcast so tell me what's going on with this um so the last episode that i had was in i think december right before uh christian's birthday and i have probably recorded like five hours of stuff we were just talking about this before you guys came on. I recorded the first pin clash. I recorded at the Stern. What game were they playing? Jurassic Park. Yeah, yeah. So the Stern competition where Anna Neal won. I recorded that. It was Avengers, but yeah. Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah. I recorded like all throughout. The Twippies I recorded then and I just have not had time to like glue it all together and put it out. It's terrible. There is a epic Iliad and Odyssey coming from Mrs. Pin's Pinball Podcast once she finally gets to editing. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's going to be so outdated and totally... But that's what makes it fun, right? But you know what? It's going to be like a blast from the past, a year in the memory kind of thing. Is it your hot take on how Jurassic Park is just released?
    24:36
    Yeah, it probably is, actually. Pretty much, man. It probably is. Well, one of them was we recorded when Guns N' Roses came out. Yes, we did. And when we got the game.
    24:46
    And yep, yep, those are all the things that are just sitting in the bank. but that's the beauty of podcasting, right? I mean, you just, you put it out when you can, and there's no, there should be no rush. I mean, you guys keep to a pretty good schedule, but I don't know how you do that. You guys, pinball players, Josh is the one who calls is like, Hey, you want to record this week? I'm like, Oh yeah, we should probably do that. Yeah. I really enjoy this. This is, this is part of my escape. You know, I have a lot, I have a lot of life things going on. And so this is actually one of my, my things, you know, That's like this is my time to goof off, I guess. And so I think that's weird because it's – but it's talking pinball. I don't mind the editing. I've done it for years. Yeah, it's my big deal. It's good to have an outlet, right? I mean we all have lives outside of pinball obviously. But pinball kind of brings us together and it's something that is an escape and it's fun to talk about. And if you want to put that out there for other people to listen to, then podcasting is the way to go. But it's fun. I mean, for us, I would never want to be totally out of it because it's definitely something that is exciting for us to do. And whenever Sarah, who is completely spontaneous about podcasting, takes out her phone and she looks at me and she's like, all right, I'm going to do an episode. I get excited about that, even though I'm not – that's not me. Like I'm not a spontaneous guy. I need notes and stuff. But she – I'm not smart enough to do that. I actually need some sort of bullet points to talk about. Yes. Okay, I want to point out two things. Sorry. Whenever I think of Mrs. Pin, there's two moments that stick in my mind with Mrs. Pin. I'm terrified.
    26:22
    I've followed you pretty much since the beginning. And the first one is your origin story. I love that it has to do with like you were watching Jack Danger at like Texas Pinball Festival And when you tuned into his stream he was just like eating a taco on the road or something Pulled pork sandwich It was pulled pork Okay 100 pulled pork And you like how many people are tuned in watching this crap I can do this. I was so angry. I really was. And like I have sensed, I think Jack does an incredible job. And I really do. All of his streams are incredible. Like the distance he's come since that moment. I think he was there when you watched. It's just you didn't appreciate the awesomeness because he was literally just eating a sandwich. Well, yes, that too. But it was also because Christian had hyped it up being like, oh, I've got this awesome thing. We're going to watch it on TV. And I was like, oh, what is it? It's a new show to binge. And then it was Jack eating pulled pork. And I was just not enthused. I kind of want some pulled pork right now. I know. It sounds good. It does sound good. I've got to smoke some pulled pork next weekend for a baby shower. But that's a different point. the second moment that sticks out my mind is that time i can't remember if christian was with you or not but you both went on head to head and you were just so giddy to be on that show and then like it was surreal because like not even a year later after i started loser kid we we went on there i'm like this must have been like the way that mrs penn felt because like it was just so wholesome having you on the on head to head it was it was pretty cool i think that that wholesome and me have never been in the same sentence, by the way, but I really appreciate that. I'm going to remember that. Yeah, no, going on, I feel like head to head was, well, first of all, it was four o'clock in the morning when we recorded that. And so I think if I was, if I was acting giddy, it was probably just exhaustion, like masked by, by caffeine, probably I'm guessing. But yeah, you know, I think it was just, I think at the time Christian was the one who was like, this is such a big deal. Oh my God. I was geeking out so hard. Oh, it was such a big deal. And I was like, well, I don't know. I mean, I I'm just like here talking. I don't even know who's listening out there. And he was like, Oh, it's such a big deal. I mean, head to head was the pinball podcast at the time. And, and Marty and Ryan are like the best and we still talk to them all the time, but you know, it was like that. It wasn't, it was a moment for sure. That was what was kind of fun for me was seeing how she got into it enough to appreciate it. Like when she was on head to head, she didn't really understand what was like the gravity of that from a pinball nerd standpoint. You know, they, they were the, the hot podcast at the time. And I still think they're the greatest of all time, but, um, they were, they were phenomenal. And I was, it was so fun to hear her on there and have them quiz her on pinball knowledge, which she had very little. totally crushed it.
    29:17
    Chris, I don't know if you're, if you remember this, but you were on that same episode and I sent them a graphic. You were clearly the highlight of that episode in terms of like the big celebrity, but I, they, at the time they would do Photoshop's for all of their episodes where they would put heads and faces on, on, you know, different pictures. So I sent a picture of Sarah's head, like a huge picture of Sarah's head. and then in a tiny little circle in the bottom right corner it said and also Christopher Franchi so you guys are going to put this on there they didn't do that was that the infamous Chalupa episode? yes it was it? so we were like separate interviews? yeah it was the same episode yeah it was spliced together so it was like 5-10 minutes and you were I think an hour and a half yeah yeah I didn't hold a grudge don't worry we used that Chalupa line at the end of our super awesome show. Yes, sir.
    30:15
    Thanks to the head-to-head boys for allowing us to do that. Copyright. People still make chalupa comments to me about that all the time. I will say, I'm jumping in on Taco Bell here. I went and I ordered Taco Bell and I got home and they forgot our two chalupas. Totally not kidding. Oh, come on. So, of course, me being the cheap guy I am. I know. It's such a fail, right? I drove back to the restaurant. And my son, who is in his pajamas and without any shoes on, I said, oh, it's fine. He's like, can I come down? I'm like, yeah, sure. I will run in. They'll hand me two chalupas. They'll say, hey, I'm sorry, dude. And then I will go because everybody says dude at Taco Bell. Right. Yeah, I figure it's in the lingo. It's kind of like my pleasure at Chick-fil-A. But so he's sitting there and I walk in and like absolutely nobody is engaging to anybody. And I'm standing there for I'm not kidding for like 10 minutes. And I say, hey, can I I you guys didn't give me these these two chalupas. And the dude back there says, OK, and goes and talks to the other dude. And I'm waiting for another 10 minutes. so 20 minutes since I walked in to pick up my chalupas and finally I just screamed out is anybody here in charge and someone came was like oh yeah I'm in charge and I said well okay so I came in I picked up my food now it's a half hour ago and I don't have my two chalupas and I mean are these chalupas laced with something that I don't know about Okay, chalupas are awesome. And finally she just said, well, there's a long line. I'm like, I should be first. I was here 30 minutes ago. Do you know who I am? Do you know what kind of podcast I have? Yeah, exactly. I've got a hat. Have you seen my crystal? Yeah. You should have went out on the front lawn and said, hey, your stupid, invisible chalupas suck. Yeah, your non-chalupas are terrible. No, seriously. So that Taco Bell has been banned from our eatery. At least yours is open. Like, I'm experiencing this now. People are having a hard time getting people to work at these restaurants. I'd go to, like, Taco Bell at, like, 6 in the evening, and they're like, sorry, we're closed for the night. You get that dumb little recording, like, thanks for stopping by, but you can't have anything. You know, I was like, what is the deal? I'm not kidding. The last four times I've been to Taco Bell, they were not open. And it was anywhere from 9 in the evening until, like, 5 or 6 in the afternoon. See, which is so weird to me because where I live, none of the restaurants shut down. A lot of them shut down their lobbies, but all the drive-thrus stayed open. Like even McDonald's is back to 24-hour service in my area, and it's just – I don't even think we have a Taco Bell here. Yeah, we do. Where? Down by Sheetz in Hershey. Oh, man. Up the hill. Oh. Yeah. Oh, that's like doesn't even count. That's so out like backwoods ghetto. Yeah, it's off in the corner. Backwoods ghetto tacos, yes. But you know what's funny? I'm going to give Tim Lee a shout-out really quick because he lives in Pennsylvania as well, if I remember correctly. Love Tim Lee. Yep. And I sent him a picture of Vernal, and he's like, wait a minute. You guys have a Taco Bell? I'm like, yeah, dude. And he's like, I'm coming to Utah. I'm like, if that's seriously what gets you to Utah, then yeah, we got Taco Bell, McDonald's, and Burger King. Hey, Tim Lee, you could drive probably 40 minutes to my house, and we can go hit up Taco Bell. You and me, buddy. I didn't even know. Tim Lee, this is a bit of a – it's a questionable bell, okay? It is a little shady. I didn't even know it was there. But there is a Taco Bell in Pennsylvania. I can verify. It's the sketchy bell, isn't it? Yes. Yeah, it is. It's called Taco Type Bell. Yeah. Taco-ish? Taco-ish.
    34:18
    STB. Yeah. Well, Tim Lee just picked up – actually, I've been texting back with him because he just picked up a Pirates of the Caribbean. That was a Papa, like from Papa slash replay. And he's like, hey, does your upper play field do X? And I'm like, no, it's fine. So basically they had just made this thing super hard. And so now he's just getting it back to where the mortals can play it. And yeah. And so he's like, no, dude, mine's fine. And I still drain every three flips. So don't worry about it. So this is Stern Pirates. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, because generally not a difficult, super difficult game, right? I mean in terms of staying alive. They had totally jacked up the upper play field, and so it wasn't even doing anything it was supposed to. So, yeah.
    35:07
    All right. So let's get back on topic. I can't remember where you're at. We're at Chalupas. Yeah, Chalupas. Pinside Outrage or Outage. Sorry. Oh, my goodness. Well, there's Outrage on there too. Yeah. Well, I guess before we move on, though, I want to ask. So it sounds like Super Awesome is still going to be around and Mrs. Pin is still going to be doing shows.
    35:29
    Is there anything else that you guys want to tell us maybe about those before we move on to the other notes that we have on here? Well, I think you guys – I think the entire pinball community needs to get around the concept that I've been trying to pitch to these two fine folks to get Mrs. Pin on the Super Awesome show full time. That way she doesn't have to do her show. No, I can't handle the drama that you two get into. I can't handle it. We try to avoid it. With Franchi and drama? That never happens. No, no. That's like oil and water. I mean, I love it. You two are like two of my favorite guys, but like hell no.
    36:15
    Did you guys, did anybody in the room here listen to Carrie Hardy's latest YouTube video? I can't remember. I don't know. I listened to one recently. Which one? The topic of it is basically some guy put a post.
    36:32
    He said, I think it's called I'm Trending on Pinside. Oh. And some guy wrote, he wrote a, you know, he put a post up with a thread, and it was basically like, why does this guy do pinball podcasting? I hate it, you know. And then, you know, all these people are piling on. You know, some people were saying like, hey, you know, I think he said he was really interested in buying a Led Zeppelin. And he went and played it, and he fell in love with it. And then he listened to Carrie's video about a piece of crap that Carrie thought it was. And somehow that talked this guy out of buying the game. And so he felt resentment towards that. Like, why did you destroy my joy?
    37:15
    I mean, the obvious is don't listen. I mean, if you had a good time and you enjoyed it, go buy it. You know, like I don't if I want to if I want to buy a nice, delicious chalupa at Taco Bell and some guys out on the lawn saying, hey, your chalupa sucks. I'm still going to get it because I know I'm going to like it. But, you know, the thing is, is that he was reading these negative comments and laughing. And that's what I envy about him is that I can't do that. You're a sensitive guy. I think, honestly, if you if you could turn that out and you could get to the point where criticism didn't affect you. and you could just roll with your creativity and be the awesome guy that you are, I think you would be much happier in life. But from my perspective, I think it's part of the artist mentality. You guys are like super perfectionists, and you're hypercritical of your craft because there's a lot that goes into it. And I know just talking between you behind the scenes and talking to Jeremy Packer and whatnot, You guys are always – even when the job is done and you've got the checkmark that you can move on, you still look at it and go back and go, well, but I could tweak this. You're always searching for perfection, and it's hard to get that with artwork. Right. Well, I think part of it is I don't expect everyone to like it.
    38:40
    It's a different taste. It's the same reason why I don't go out and buy Bon Jovi records. I don't like it. But I'm not out on Bon Jovi's lawn saying, hey, your new album sucks, dude.
    38:52
    If people could say, you know, when a new game comes out, if people come on, you know, Jeremy's got a whatever, Ninja Turtles comes out. If people could say, you know, I was hoping for the movie style or something. Or like, I don't know if, you know, these colors work for me. If they could be mature about analyzing what it is that they don't like about it rather than just saying, looks like a unicorn puked all over Skittles. Dude, that was me. Do you know that? That was 100% me. I did for Deadpool. For Deadpool. You said it looked like Skittles. I said it looks like Skittles exploded on this play field. That was 100% me. I just ordered a Deadpool. we love Deadpool and we've come to appreciate the art like not even that we had to come to it like we appreciated the art but it was definitely very busy it was super red too that was like and and you know like you go on and you see something for the first time it's like uh when Wonka came out we were watching the reveal and I had to literally stop taping because we had pre-ordered the machine and I hated it and I hated it and now and we own it like I love this machine It's great, but sometimes your first – like the picture that you have in your mind is not always what the reality is. That's the caveat of people who talk pinball, right, is that you have these dreams. You have these ideas in your head of what a game is going to be. And then when you see it, it's never going to live up to those. No, no. It's not. That's why I'm terrified for Harry Potter because I am terrified. That's true. You make an interesting point because when some idiot leaked Monsters artwork out to the public before the game came out, there was no criticism when the game came out. Everybody loved it. They criticized the game itself.
    40:45
    Everybody went and bought it because they saw the artwork and went, oh, I want that. And then they played the game and went, hmm. I actually would take a Monsters right now because I know that the games that are coming out are super great. but Avengers downstairs I was super excited and I love the game my brother came over kind of a random thing we went to my brother who lives next to Disneyland was coming here for Christmas but we were not going to be here for Christmas because we actually went to Disney World so we took off and he actually came and stayed at my house and I came back and I was like hey how did you like Avengers he's like I couldn't understand what to do so I'm like seriously and I sold iron man which now i'm kind of regretting selling iron man but i need that game that is hey i don't need to explain anything hit that and that would be perfect for him right why do you why do you think i still have world cup soccer i i love the game but like everyone rolls up to that and they score a goal and they're like goal you're like yes and so they they try to get the goalie going again so they can just keep scoring goals and we're super j-pop fan so yeah you know you know It's a great game. I mean, I think pinball definitely has to have that wow factor for newbies and for pros. And I think Stern is really good at that. They have it in their code that you have to have something that everyone can achieve that's a wow factor. So you've got that give me multi-ball. You've got a lot of the flat ones. That's Gary, actually. Yeah. Gary's the one that comes in. He wants a ball, right? Yeah. Come on. Yep. Well, even like with Jurassic Park, the dinosaur was never supposed to move in it. And Gary showed up. Gary's like, hey, why isn't that move? Yeah. Okay, let's do that. So.
    42:30
    But no, I think everyone, I mean, obviously you guys have fans. I mean, looking at the votes, you guys took solid second place. You dominated in the Twippy. And so I think a lot of people were heartbroken to see you gone. So it's going to be good news. A lot of people will be happy to hear that you're still looking to do this because it really is a fantastic show. I think the only reason we decided to continue in some form is because we've got 500 air fresheners to give out with our logo. That's right. Hey, I just cleaned my car. I need a new air freshener. Oh, dude, we've been building up on the swag. Christian and I go to Sticker Mule every time they have a deal or something. For the past year with no shows, we've been stocking up on the swag. We've got all kinds of crap to give away. We have a three-drawer organizer. Swag bin. Like the ones that you store your T-shirt things. Nice. Yeah, so we're still 100% planning on doing a coin taker, you know, tailgating party this year at some point. And we are going to just rain swag down on everyone who is there. I'm making the make it rain money sign right now. Are you guys going to Expo? Because Josh and I are going to Expo. Yes. Where is Expo? Is it in Chicago? Chicago. So we can't, unfortunately this year. I booked it out. It's 11 hours drive. I know you guys can do it. I know. So we're actually going to go to Chicago, we think, this summer on a road trip because we can't go to any of our normal vacation places. So we're like, all right, well, maybe we'll make a road trip to Chicago. But Expo is always in October. Unfortunately, it's on the same weekend as our daughter's birthday. It's also the weekend of Halloween, which we tend to go crazy for. And there's so much stuff going on that week that Expo is really hard for us to hit. But in June, I think we're planning a road trip out there on our bucket list has always been to go to the Jersey Jack factory and the Stern factory and check out the tours there. So we're going to try and hit those up. We're going to reach out and see if we can pull any core, any strings to to get in on those and get some tours. And then we've got a few friends that live out there. So we're going to we're going to it's going to be a fun trip, but it's not going to be expo fun. Unfortunately, no, it's exposed just and like right then is, oh, it's always such a tough weekend. I don't even know why. Just all of those things, I guess. Yeah, I was I was grateful that wasn't our fall break because that's impossible for me to get off. But, yeah, I I'm this is why you guys are better parents than me. A couple of reasons, because one, I actually have two children who have birthdays. I have an October 30th and an October 31st. That's right, children. Halloween is one of my kids' birthdays. And yeah, I'm going to kind of ditch them to go to Expo this year. Wow, I thought I felt bad. I don't judge. I don't judge. I'm kind of jealous a little bit. Listen, man, if you can get away with it and your wife is willing to pick up the slack, then all power to you. I think my wife is like, yeah, whatever. I can't. Christian's like, oh, yeah. So Expo, you know, and if he's like, yeah, maybe I'll just thinking about going. I'm like, heck, no, you're not going without me. The hammer gets dropped. Unfortunately, in our family, both parents want to go. It's not just like one person can sneak out for the weekend. We don't have grandparents who come and watch the kids and stay overnight with them. That part of it, I'm like, what are we going to do? Drive 11 hours to Chicago? That's at least three days. At least three days we need. Take your kids out of school. What is wrong with you? School's not that important. I mean, come on. Anybody can teach school. anybody anybody you have to be crazy to be a teacher that's all i have to say about that are you going to be there franchi you going to expo uh i was i was thinking about it yeah i need to talk to to rob rob burke uh about that um so it's uh it's a possibility awesome i'm not 100 percent sure um but uh have you have you checked the scalp of the child who was born um october 31st for a 666 anywhere no but okay seriously we were gonna name him jack because that would be so awesome like jack the pumpkin king born on halloween but yeah i i knew a jack and he was kind of a jerk and so it kind of like okay okay uh sarah how do you guys name your kids because i guarantee every possible name combination out there? You're like, no, that kid's a jerk. Dude, that's such a great question. Sarah, Sarah, multiple times when we were trying to think of names, she was like, nope, I had a kid like that. They were, they were an awesome. So yeah, actually one of our children, I looked at the surgery list of all of the patients that were there for the day. And I saw a name and I was like, that's a beautiful name. And then you don't see that very often. So we named one of our daughters that name. And the other name was one that we both thought of for a long time that we both love. But yes. I never had a student named either of these names ever. So you have Delilah and Jezebel. Yes, we do. That's right. Yes. Yes. Pinderella and Pincess. Yep. We do. We do. I got, I got questioned when I was naming, I have two daughters and the younger one, I was actually married for, bonus. And when we were trying to come up with names, I had suggested the name Reagan.
    48:05
    And my wife at the time said, that's unusual. Where'd you get that from? And I said, well, that's the name of the girl in The Exorcist. And she's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm like, damn it, that's one of my favorite movies You should have said Ronald Yeah, that's what I was thinking I would have questioned myself on that one Alright, okay Well, yeah, no Yeah, so I got shot down And I got shot down on To tell you the truth, I think Sarah Was one of my choices And my wife at the time said No, I knew this girl, she was a cocaine Drug addict It was me Wait, Sarah? It was actually me. Was that you? Damn you. She ruined me. You ruined the naming of my child. I'm so sorry about that. Yeah. See, we were going to do Jude for one of them, but then we decided – Hey, Jude. Exactly. That's where it came from. And we were going to do Reagan actually for another, but we landed on Grayson and Nora for our twins. Okay. So do you actually know like the story of Jude? It's actually kind of a really sad story. Yeah, that's why we ended up not naming him Jude. Well, what it is, is it's actually Paul would go over to write with John and John was like a completely absentee father. And so Paul would actually play with Julian. And so, you know, and John was all on drugs and everything. And so the song started out like, hey, Julian, and ended up changing it to hey, Jude. So it's hard for me not to see, hear that song and not think about basically a substitute father singing to a kid who has a horrible father. Yeah. So. Yikes. Yeah, I know. Kind of a downer, right? Yeah. Total downer. Let's pick it up. Yeah.
    49:53
    Meanwhile, in pinball. All right. Let's move on to these notes. I don't think, was anyone heartbroken that Pinside was down for five days or six days? I saw the withdrawals on Facebook. Holy crap.
    50:08
    I didn't go there, so I didn't know. People bash Pinside, man, for the drama on the site, but it's an important part of the hobby, and I think that we saw that when it was down. I mean, some people went through serious withdrawal.
    50:22
    It's a great site for games, for seeing what mods are out there, for repairs, all that stuff. But, you know, some people live on that site and there were some there were some people who were pretty broken up. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I was just distraught. Sarah didn't even know it was down. I had to tell her tonight that it was down. I was like, what's up with Pinside? What's the deal? And he was like, oh, it went down. And I was like, so terrible. It really was. The only reason I knew it went down is because I went to a post our last episode. and it's like, why is Pinside not going through? What's the issue here? And then I think I tried to look up two different prices on pinball machines and I was like, oh, I forget, they're down. I hardly am ever on the forum, so it didn't really bother me. But there's a wealth of information on Pinside, so I'm glad it's back up. And that's why I feel bad for Robin. I feel like Pinside gets dinged because the forums can be very toxic. But there's so much wealth of information there that a lot of people kind of look over it. I truly was glad that they didn't lose more than, you know, like whatever. An hour and 37 minutes or something of their data. But, yeah, I mean, there's so many good things on that site that people don't really talk about often, like the pinball map and the market and just learning about, you know, if you have any issue at all with your machine, there aren't a lot of resources out there to help you with that. And Pinsight is definitely one of them. And the biggest. They win the Twiggy every year. You can definitely have information on a broken pinball machine within an hour from someone that's fairly well rehearsed on that machine. It's amazing. Well, and you reach out through Pinside and people are willing to help you. Like that's the best thing about pinball people. Total strangers like us inviting them. So before we'd even met. We have invited so many random people over to our house that we have really truly no knowledge of. but we just know they're pinball people so we know they're probably good people who came over we've had the mcalpines over colin mcalpine christian was like the mcalpines are coming over i was like who the heck is this hey i need to know though like is colin a good house guest because he's coming oh my god yeah because i i need to know does he flush the toilet does he wash yes in fact we had his whole extended family here and they're all a gem they're all gems here they're truly awesome the only thing though is that if you care about any of your gcs i would just turn that machine off and put like a out of order lie lie about it yeah no well what i'm gonna do is i'm actually do you know i'll do i'll actually like take off the glass and put on like a super crazy high gc and colin's like wait what is it i'm like i don't know i was just playing last night he will still beat it scott he will still beat it he beat indiana jones on his first game Now I don know if you know this game well but Williams Jones you have to play 13 modes or something crazy And then the final mode, you have to hit every single switch on the game. And he did all of this in three balls. And I was talking his ear off. Yeah, he was talking to us the whole time about how to play the game. It was impressive. Is that why you sold it?
    53:37
    It's going out. It's gone. Yeah. You know, I'm going to have an eye patch that he has to play with so his death reception is off. He's still going to be like seriously. Oh, come on. He's not that good. He's never won anything important. Yeah, not Pinnberg or anything. Oh, wait. Oh, yeah, he won that. Give his hands a little shot of Novocaine.
    53:59
    Do a bilateral brachial plexus block. That's right. So you guys, speaking of Pinnberg, did you see Doug Polka's post tonight? No. Oh, I did not. He said that he is trying to raise money to bring back a giant hundreds of people pinball tournament to the Pittsburgh area, which kind of sounds to me like Pinberg 2.0. So hopefully he's trying to revive it. I mean, he was the lead guy or at least one of the lead people running Pinberg. Yeah, he was the tournament director. So I really hope that it does make a comeback. Well, he certainly knows how to do it.
    54:35
    The limiting factor really isn't the machines. The limiting factor is knowing how to set things up, and so they run efficiently. So he is the most important piece of that puzzle. He's like Obi-Wan. He's the Obi-Wan of setting stuff up like that. They've sold all of their machines, which is a little worrisome, but I know that there's a ton of people who are in that area that would love to volunteer their games. Who did they sell them to? They sold them to pinball players. They all know what pinball is. and so like okay i'm not saying it's the same resource but it certainly at least they you know it's not like he sold him to some collector in germany who's putting him in a in a vault like the indiana jones ark of the covenant thing i mean these are right these are out there so yeah hopefully hopefully it happens we would love to see that good for doug absolutely diet pinberg Yeah. Nice. Do you guys, we're living so close to Pittsburgh. Do you stay the night in when you did Pinberg? Did you stay the night there? Oh, it was like a five-day epic. Yeah. Oh, I'm going to – seriously, I cried when they – man, I don't know. I've shed some tears this year, but that was one of the worst. If you're into pinball, Pinberg, it was truly the event that would – it's a once-in-a-lifetime thing. I went to school in New Orleans, and I would tell everyone Mardi Gras is like a once-in-a-lifetime thing. You have to go. You have to experience all of the amazingness that it has to offer. and pinbrook was that for pinball it was just so special and everyone who was into pinball went there um even if you didn't get into the tournament you went and you just had such a good time because it was everyone who loved and was super passionate about pinball in a in a small space with hundreds of games just geeking out over the same thing and um and you know when everything was done you go out for drinks and you'd hang out with all the people you've heard about in pinball and you meet all these great people. It was just, it was an experience. And I really, really hope that it comes back because I want other people to experience that. Yeah. It was epic. Uh, Crystal Gemnick called it the summer camp of pinball. Yeah. Cause pinball summer camp or something like that. And it truly was just like a five day epic. Like it took us weeks to recover from those five days. Cause we would be so exhausted after, you know, cause the tournament, it was 12 hours a day for three straight days. But you never, you never were like upset that you were there. No, it was pinball fantasy camp and you were geeking out about it. You're riding that high after it was done for weeks afterwards and just jonesing for the next one. So if, if it can come back and other people can, can enjoy that, uh, you know, that's, that's huge, but they're still not taking my tickets. I will hit that F5 button until I am blue in the face. Yeah. If you don't know what F5 is. That means when you hit F5, you refresh your computer. So you have to continually hit that when the Pinberg tickets go for sale because you want to try and get in in the queue. Yeah. They sold out the last time that we did it. They sold out in 2.7 seconds. Yeah. It's insane. So crazy. I want to talk about Alien because you guys actually got your hands on Alien before all of them started shipping. They were building a ton of them. What are your guys' thoughts on Alien? I mean, they just posted a picture too that they had them lined up and they There were all the lights were on and they were flashing. It looks like they're they're actually getting them out the door and everything. Yeah, man. Yeah. I mean, we got to play the first game that that hit the US and Coin Ticker was generous enough to let us out there and play. And we had a few slushies and played about, I don't know, what, 20 games on that? Yeah, but we loved it. I mean, it's we I did play the original game and it's very similar. It's it's a great game. It's very, very fun to shoot. And the layout is basically the same as the original.
    58:38
    The Xenomorph head wasn't – I didn't know if it was working when I was playing it before. I talked to Chris subsequently, and he said that the Xenomorph head in the software was turned off or something funky. But it's fully functional. Like, it wasn't a mechanical issue when I played it. And so they brought it up to Pin Brew Fest last weekend, and lots of people got their hands on it and had good feedback. So I think it's going to be a great game. I mean, if you missed out on the first run of this, it's going to be really cool to have the option to buy it now and have it kind of bulletproofed a lot more than the original version was.
    59:17
    But we'll see how many games they ship. I talked to Chris and Melissa recently, and they said that they're really pushing to ship as many games as they can. And there's a couple shipments coming, but they don't know exact numbers now in terms of how many are going to hit the U.S. and how long it's going to take. But the Pinball Brothers have really made a point to say they want to make this game as perfect as they can and as mechanically sound as they can. Because they know the history of this game. They know that it's not something that people want to see any issues with straight out of the box. So they're really taking their time. They're making sure the games they ship are perfect so that when they do hit the U.S., it's going to be positive feedback instead of people complaining about stuff. I thought it was a great game. I thought it was super fun. I thought the look of the game is great. I mean, obviously, I go for the aesthetics first, and then I flip it and see what I think about that part of it, too. But I thought it was awesome. I don't know. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. We still don't know what the limited edition version of the game is going to come with. So that could be – I know a lot of people are waiting to see what that is before they pull the trigger, but there could be some really cool features coming on the next version of this. Okay. Would you buy it and put it in your home collection?
    60:36
    We don't like Alien. Yeah. That's the only – that's like – So it's a theme. Okay. All right. It's a fun game. It is fun. If you are an Alien fan, then absolutely. Absolutely. It's a no-brainer. I mean, this game is phenomenal.
    60:50
    But Alien is not really a theme that either of us really are huge into. And truly, this almost speaks to the game's awesomeness is that it does pull you into kind of this high suspense kind of horror theme of Alien. And when you're playing it, the sound system is bumping. You're hearing people screaming at the aliens coming. And it is high suspense when you play it. So it's not a game that we'd really want for our kids. Yeah. But if you're into the theme, I mean, it is – it's a lot of fun. For sure. I'm into the theme, but I've only played the original version. I didn't get the chance to play the new version. But I liked the old one.
    61:32
    You know, aside from the flaws that it had, I really enjoyed it. So I can only imagine with things being improved that if you were into Aliens, yeah, it was definitely a good game.
    61:44
    Okay. Now, Christian, Sarah, do you have the adult mode on your GNR? We do. We do. But that's only because our kids are so not into pinball. Yeah, they're not. They do not come down and play at any point. So we're not worried about them hearing the casual F-bombs. Yeah, I was just kind of wondering. I was like, well, okay, so that theme doesn't do it for you, but Guns N' Roses does.
    62:07
    Listen, I mean, Christian, the story behind the Guns N' Roses is that Christian, speaking of my drinking, God gave me two slushies at Cointaker and I was like, I never drink really, really rarely I love this game they were in like Dixie cups too, it was pathetic and he's like, so what do you think, should we get this game? this is right after she got the GC, I might mention and he plied me with liquor and I was like, yeah, do it And then as I sobered up, like as the next hour progressed, I was like, dude, go tell her no. No, absolutely not. But rewind and just say, you know, look at it now. And we've played it a ton since it's in the house. Yeah, it really is such a fun game. Okay, so I want you guys to go to thepinballloft.com and look at what he's done to the speakers on the top. And he has the CE, and he actually changed the speaker setup. And so I'm not kidding. You probably are going to blow your ears like Back to the Future. Well, Christian got some kind of super subwoofer. I have a soundbar, a Bose soundbar, and a subwoofer underneath the game, and they're both cranked up to, like, max. So when you play this game, the house shakes. But it's phenomenal. Nice. That's crazy, though. I'm on it right now, and this is awesome. Yeah. Pretty sure you're part of the band if you play that game. Yes. Yeah, right? Yeah. All righty. So I'm going to move to the very last topic because I know we're going to get a lot of longevity out of this topic. Oh, come on. No, no, no. No, it's all good. It's all good. Oh, my goodness. So I'm going to start off, though, with because Scott had requested on our last episode, If you have not listened to it, you might want to rewind and go listen to episode 57. It was nicely. I requested nicely. Okay. He requested nicely for people that may have purchased a Deep Root Pinball Machine of the Raza Persuasion to give us their perspective since they had bought it. We had an amazing amount of emails come in. Only one was of a purchase, but people had said like there should be at least one segment every episode of Scott just going off on Deep Root.
    64:32
    And I know that Franchi definitely wants to give his input too. Well, when I talked to Christian and he had mentioned you guys, he said they reached out. You want to go on the show? And I'm like, Scott hates Deep Root. Yes, I do.
    64:48
    I don't hate them. Okay, I hate them. I don't – you know, but I've learned a ton in this last two weeks about Deep Root. We've been given a lot more perspective, and I think the thing is, at least for me, is it's a company that I feel like is trying to be legitimate, but they have no clue how to manufacture. And that's their main hiccup. Dude, I'm totally with you. I'm sad about the whole thing because I feel for everyone at that company, even Mueller. And the reason why is that he's just – he's boisterous and he's way overpromised in the past. But at this point, it's pretty clear that he just misjudged his abilities and it's cost him a metric crap ton of money with very little product to show for it. Wait, wait, wait. What is your definition of very little? That's none. I'm just wondering, like if I promised you money and I said, you know what? I will give you very little back. I will take that bet if I can have that same benchmark of very little is none. Yeah. One of the things that we got snagged up on in the last episode was the nominal interest on your payment. So someone had told me a part of the agreement that they had signed if they went ahead with Raza is they were taking that money and they were putting it into an account. And so if you asked for your money back later, if they were not able to perform, if they've made money off of that – off of your money in that account since it was going into a savings or whatever it is, they would give you the interest that you made along with your money back. So that was the nominal interest part. You know what? In keeping with all the other things he has promised, I totally believe that will happen. Oh, my goodness.
    66:39
    Wait, we need to rewind for just one second. So here's my question. I've asked this to Christian about 4,000 times. But who on earth would give their money to Deep Root? That's just my only question. I mean, they have literally fallen through on every single promise they have ever, ever made. Every claim I think they've fallen through on. and that's not for lack of trying charlie brown i'm lucy and i have this great ball that i want you to kick come on come on just just go ahead go ahead try to kick it well let's not forget the attachment of papa duke too who's a known felon when it comes to stealing money for pre-orders that certainly doesn't help things i think that's the problem though is like i think papa duke and mueller in the same boat i don't know if they're nationally felons well obviously what they've done has not been spot clean but it seriously comes back to you've got people that want to create and design but have no clue how to manufacture that's where it comes they're trying to come up to the finish line and not they can't finish because they've done everything up to the point of manufacturing they can't okay they're they're okay so what their home brews okay yeah you know who's made a pin thunderbirds thunder crap and birds have made a pin you can buy that thing and you can buy the thing with the arcade flippers and the international rescue and the little puppet thing and it still will get you farther than what you could get with deep fruit don't forget punny factory honey okay you know what hey punny factory has not promised anything and if they want to make a dad a dad joke game that's totally fine with me but they're also not going out saying that again outperform stern yeah yeah all right let me give you some perspective because we're talking about who would buy this. Well, I have a person here that did buy it. Ready? All right. Greeting, Loser Kids. I love your podcast and want to give you some feedback on your latest episode since you wanted to hear from folks who were in on a Raza. Yes, I am one of those crazy 130 folks that put down a deposit. Feel free to read this email on the future episode if you would, but please leave my name off of it if you don't mind. No problem, Chuck. We'll leave it in. No problem, dude. I guess I should start with my reasoning for placing an order. I have no real attachment to Papa Duke as a designer, even if I really do enjoy his older pins, especially Theater of Magic and Tales of Arabian Nights. I'm in the minority of pinball fans who enjoy original themes and especially love old sci-fi B-movies. So a quirky sci-fi theme with zombies and aliens immediately piqued my interest. Learning Steve Bowden was on rules also made me think this game might be a winner due to his years of playing experience. The pin bar is also an interesting concept, but I think it could be easily used. Use the back glass screen, flippers, and action button to make the mode choices. The pin bar seems more useful for the back-end menu plus whatever mini-games they decide. I still believe it's more of a novelty feature than entertainment.
    69:45
    I want to skip just a little bit. Oh, I had been following the Zidware fallout along with opening of Raza orders and was glad to see an effort being made to make people whole who had previously lost money. After reviewing the Raza options and contract, I made the choice to go in with a 10% deposit. I've been lucky enough to still have a well-paying job during COVID, but know full well that this money could easily vanish if the game was never made. I would never put down a full deposit unless the company had already proven stable. I don't see the purchase as an investment like others who are talking about for rarity for flipping purposes. I do think the pin looks like a fun game and believe it would be a good fit in my lineup. Honestly, hope Raza is made and that Deep Root is able to move on to another game. With that being said, though, I agree that Food Truck does not sound like a blockbuster pin, but I am the kind of guy who sees values in game like Diner. Of course, we were talking about a game that was made 20 years ago versus a game from today. for deep root to be successful they should move on to licensed themed games like goonies and the who from gate for game two uh it would not surprise me if rosa is built only for the company to fold shortly after robert muller may have a passion for pinball but his lack of manufacturing knowledge may be his downfall uh i may i also want to note this is what we were talking about earlier sorry the nominal interest mentioned last episode uh it was he it's uh robert muller has stated that he's taken the deposit money for Raza placed in an escrow account, similar to a deposit you might have on an apartment. This would mean that if it does not get fulfilled, then he gives you back the deposit plus whatever interest he earned with it being in the escrow account. Thank you for continuing to make great content. I hope to hear or see you guys at a future show in the future. All right. It makes me feel a lot better that they only put down 10%. Like that makes me feel so much better. And that's like an okay amount of money. That's like, wasn't that like the most logical thing? Like, yeah, yeah. Okay. That's like half a topper. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, that makes me, that makes me change my stance just marginally. And I do appreciate his point because Steve Bowden is like one of my favorite people in pinball. And so that really is, is if, if, I mean, I don't know. I just don't know. I do think that it, that swayed me a little bit to change my mind. Yeah, I mean, if Deep Root folds, Steve Bowden better be the number one draft pick for other companies. Let's just put that out there. I mean, this is something that other guys need to have on their radar.
    72:18
    But, yeah. Is there such a thing as a pinball headhunter? There should be. Maybe I need to have a new job. Yeah. Yeah, get the talent. Well, I've been the headhunter for Deep Root, but maybe something else.
    72:31
    I really hope that these guys get their games, and I hope they come out. Me too. you know, putting 10% down, it kind of hedges your bets that if this, if this rarity of a pinball machine comes out, you'll get, you'll be one of the 130 who have it. So I get that, but I really feel for the people who are a hundred percent in because there are plenty of those. What you don't know is that Mueller is actually bought 120 of those in hopes of flipping them for twice as much to finance his company later on. Oh no. Oh, yeah. OK, I will say, though, that knowing or at least this guy saying that it's 10 percent down, it does make me feel a little better that they're not taking money from people.
    73:19
    I still stand by all my previous assessments on they have absolutely zero clue on how to make anything. and and and even when um uh kerry hardy went on uh josh flipping and mashing yeah flipping and mashing and he talked about it and his tour and going through and even something so basic as when he looked at the underside of the playfield they hadn't color lined anything yeah and so it's like the same wiring everywhere could you imagine trying to work on that game that that tells me an extra level of, oh my gosh, this guy is clueless on how to make anything. A hundred percent. And another thing he said, which was a mind grenade, was that when they got all of these people to come out there to check out this game, the one game that they had that was built, or maybe there were two, I forget exactly what he said, but it didn't work. Like they turned it on and it didn't work from the get-go. I mean, this is their launch of the machine that they were trying to do. I don't know. What's especially crushing about all of this is that Deep Root did have some really forward-thinking ideas. And there was a ton of like, whoa, that sounds like it's going to be awesome moments. We may never see those come to fruition. Yeah, that's sad. Like a touchscreen and pinball, new approaches to the play field and glass management. And they're trying to be a Bally Williams of now. That's what people have been clamoring for, for a long time. So, you know, they had some great themes. Food Truck was a little questionable, but I was excited to see what Alistair was going to do with that. But if Deep Root doesn't make it, they're really missing out on, you know, a ton of great theme ideas and potential for all of those things that they were promising to be lost. And that's tough. That's sad. I think here's the problem, though. I think Deep Root could still make it. Wow. I think the only thing holding them back at this point is having a manufacturing person. They need to have someone that knows the line because they've got everything else. They've got the talent. They've got the money. They just need to find someone to say, hey, this is where this goes, and this is how we're going to make it.
    75:43
    Okay. I disagree. I think that they are so far behind the eight ball. But unless he's willing – how much is he spending on these salaries monthly? Oh, billions. I don't know if it's that, but it's a lot. It is. But I mean he's been doing this for – How much did you get paid, Franchi? That's what I want to know. It is so far – I mean four years at this, right? Yeah. Four years. It is so far behind. Four years. There is no chance that they're ever going to pull this thing out of a nosedive because if they are four years in and they haven't even – They haven't even hit the ground on having an order like a procession on, OK, how do we make the machines? Like if you don't – if you have just a back room with some Harbor Freight twisty things and like a giant roll of yellow wiring or whatever, then I – what is that different than someone just making something in their garage? and then then they had to take it and and figure out like even elwynn who did archer um he went to stern and stern basically had to look at it retrofit everything fix it and make it so it can be a mass-produced game like they have nothing set up there at all that's the thing though but here's the thing though they have made a game they made the rasa for the houston expo whatever that was and they've made the ones weren't working when they were there at the deep six were there but they have shown that it now works with the pin bar on tv they did that whole thing for the news so they obviously know how to make a game at least one or two my point being is is if if you're able to get it in a box if you're able to do the software if you're able to do all that stuff your hiccup at this point is manufacturing and so if you can get someone in there hiccup though That's like not like a little hiccup. That's like a gastro like real big problem. Yeah. I get that. But what I'm saying is if you just go out and hire someone that knows how to manufacture, that could – I think that would help push you forward to solving your issues that you're having. Well, it's definitely not going to hurt. Do you think that's Deep Root's ultimate problem, though, is that Robert Mueller just felt like he could do everything, including manufacturing and marketing and everything else that he's been in charge of? And he's probably at his own behest that he's the one who wants to take charge on that. And he's just – even though he is incredibly talented as a businessman, he's clearly made a ton of money. And he's not 100% in all of these areas, and he's clearly in over his head. I don't know if it's that or if he was told – because that's the thing though too. Like if you have a lot of money, like right now in Utah, people are selling NBA companies. Like they sold the Utah Jazz to a tech billionaire, and they're looking to sell the soccer team here in Utah. People invest in those that have money. The tech billionaire has no clue. He's never played professionally in the NBA. He's never – what he does though is he bought the company and then he's put the right people in the right positions. That's right. The tech billionaire doesn't buy the NBA team and then try to play for the team. And here's the thing. Did it take him four years to put those people in those positions or did it take him like maybe four weeks? And how many of those people left? I don't know if that comes down to if Papa Duke's really who's in charge on this one and Robert Mueller has just been eating everything he's been fed by Papa Duke, and that's why we're at this point. Or if Mueller seriously was like, yeah, I'm going to do it all and has been very hands-on with everything. I think it more of option A He been fed a ton of stuff just like Papa Duke done with everyone else I don know man Mueller is the guy who been on the podcast He been putting out the marketing blurbs I mean he clearly the guy who wants to have his hands in everything whether or not he the only guy or not is the question But Papaduke been kind of in the shadows Yeah, you can't lay this at Papa Duke's feet. This is all – I think it's because Papa Duke – I think after the interview with Coast to Coast, there was an agreement made that Papa Duke would not be on anything ever again because of the things that he said. I mean even that episode has been taken down, and you can't find it anywhere. You could probably find someone that downloaded it. But for the most part, Papa Duke has been told to be silent. And it would be easy if you had a ton of money and been like, I can be the mouthpiece. and so I'll just take whatever he says, I'll filter it, and we'll make it sound good. Because a lot of this stuff is crazy, like quad manufacturing and octo manufacturing and coming from a guy that's never done any of this before. You know what I'm saying? No manufacturing. He is an eighth grader with Trapper Keeper who has a design for a pinball machine, like saying, wouldn't this be cool?
    80:57
    That's it. I want to know your opinion, Franchi, because you've been very silent in all this. Oh, boy. Well, I will explain my experience with Robert Mueller, and that will lead me into what I feel about his company. And I will cliff notes this as best I can. They reached out to me to do artwork for them.
    81:24
    And at the time that they did it, I had just left Stern. I just sort of officially announced that I wasn't going to be working for Stern anymore, which is most likely why they contacted me.
    81:37
    And so I'm like, well, yeah, I'm available. I'd like to know more about what you guys are doing and et cetera. And he's like, okay, great. He goes, I'm going to call the guys in, was it Utah? I don't know. Yeah, there was one in Utah. Yeah, they had a company in Utah. Animation office there. I'm going to call those guys. We will fly you out. We'll put you up at a hotel. You know, all of this stuff, you know, it says, let me call them and find out what's good for them. I'll call you right back and we'll set something up. And I'm like, okay, six months or I'm sorry, six weeks goes by. Six weeks, not six hours, not six days, a month and a half. No word. I'm like, okay, well, I'm not traveling down that road because there apparently doesn't seem to be a road. um and and so i talking to my mentor mr joe cam and co i agreed to go back to stern and then he calls me out of the blue mueller that is not joe yeah and he's like you know okay do you want to talk about this and i'm like i'm like no i'm like dude that was a month and a half ago You know, I'm looking for work and you're like, you know, hey, I'll call you right back and we'll fly out and all that. And a month and a half goes by. I said, if I I said things have been very wishy washy with me and Stern. If things change, I'd be happy to talk to you. But right now I can't. And he goes, yeah, well, that's not going to happen. And I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, yeah, you're too flaky. so he calls me flaky because i couldn't wait longer than a month and a half to get a return phone call from him to you know to meet and work with him with no contact in between saying hey i'm still working on it like nothing just absolutely nothing so to have and then so i tell this story on canada's podcast how did that happen um i tell the story on canada's podcast Robert Mueller comes on this show maybe two weeks after that, and Kaneda doesn't mention it at all. And when he's all done talking to Robert Mueller, he's basically winding out of, you know, he's like, okay, thanks for coming on the show, that kind of thing. Robert, like, oh, wait, there's one more thing I'd like to say here, and that's that you had Christopher Franchi on your show, and he said that I called him flaky and all that, and that's not true.
    84:08
    And then he never offered an alternate. it, he just said basically that I lied, which I had no reason to lie. I had no reason at that time. I had no animosity against him, no reason to make up a story to make him look bad. I told the story that actually happened, and he called me a liar. And I'm like, okay, that's how this guy does business. Number one, he can't be wrong. He's going to point the finger at other people. He's going to make up bullshit. Last thing you want to hear from a new company that's making you promises is that he's a bull.
    84:41
    You know, so I don't believe a word that the guy says. I think he's got Napoleon complex. I think he's a bad businessman when it comes to pinball. I think he shot his mouth off way too early. And I don't think that he's ever really made up for that. He's tried to be like, oh, well, I really learned my lesson. He's never come on and said, look, I said this to Jody Dankberg. I'm sorry. I made fun of Stern Pinball and said that we were going to blow them away, and I know that we can't. I'm sorry. He's never really made amends for what he's done. So I just don't like the guy. So when it comes to that company, I know most of the people that I know that work there left.
    85:24
    The one guy that's still there, Steve Bowden, I wish he would leave because I want that company to crash and burn.
    85:31
    I hate Scott Buehler. Yeah, okay. How do you really feel, though, Frenchie? I mean, don't trick or treat.
    85:42
    So my opinion on this whole thing, basically, you know, removing that from the picture, is that there is just no trust. It's just like a relationship. It's just like a wedding, you know, a relationship between a man and a woman, man and a man, woman and woman, whatever. If there's no trust, there's nothing. That's basically it. You can't, if you, you know, I've had people that I've dated and they've done something to make me lose their trust. You can't get it back. No matter how hard you try. I mean, maybe there's people out there that are capable of that. But for the most part, you know, you're right up front in a situation like this. And it's just like a relationship with, you know, people. You're given trust. and then it's your job to either cultivate that, make that grow, make it flourish, or to lose it and just disintegrate things. And everything that he's done in the past four years has disintegrated that trust that he was automatically given as a new upcoming pinball company.
    86:48
    So without any trust, I don't see any point in doing business with the person. That's my opinion. I would never buy a single thing. I wouldn't put 10% down. I wouldn't put 5% down. I wouldn't put my list on a game just in hopes that I might get it. It's just – no. That's my opinion on Deep Root. You might have just out-Scotted Scott on the Deep Root thing. Yeah. He had actual information. I just had a rant. So the one thing I've learned from all of this is the smartest decision that they've made out of this whole process was to hire Steve Bowden. And if Steve Bowden were to leave Deep Root, if American Pinball or Stern Pinball or JJP were to say, hey, come work for us. We'll match or pay more than what Deep Root's paying. I think that would be the final straw on the camel's back. Because honestly, all this conversation I had behind the scenes with people that are in the know and stuff like that, it's seriously like – it's not like poor Deep Root. It's always poor Bowden. It's poor Steve. Absolutely.
    87:58
    To be honest, if you look at what has come out of Deep Root, I mean it's so clear that Steve has poured his heart and soul into Raza. Like he had multiple posts about the rules. He's got the whole backstory down. He knows that game inside and out because even though he came in halfway through, three-quarters of the way through development of the game, he really put his mark on it. And it really seemed like it's going to shine because of Steve, not maybe because of the mechanics or the shots or whatever. But Steve has done a really good job with the rule set, and we all can kind of see that. So he's fulfilled his promise to Deep Root in doing what he was brought on to do. But unfortunately, we're not going to really know if anyone else has if no other games come out. Like Barry Osler, apparently Food Truck is out there. It's almost done.
    88:49
    And Barry said he was excited to have that game come out and he's done some cool things with it. Whether we ever see what those things are or not, we'll have to see. You know, I think a lot of it depends on how much money Robert wants to continue to sink into the company. Yeah, I wonder too if there has been some kind of non-compete clause that Bowden had to sign that would forbid him from going to any other company. Knowing Robert, it's probably in there. That's what I'm saying, with his legal background and whatnot. But if that were the case, though, you think Dennis Norman – well, Dennis Norman is kind of a mercenary. It depends on the contract. Yeah, I guess so. I think – honestly, I think if Bowden wasn't there, this would be a whole different story. You're right. I really think everyone would be kind of on the bandwagon with Scott and Franchi. I think that's the only reason I'm holding out hope. I have no money in Deep Root. And honestly, tomorrow, if they were closing door, the only thing that I would be sad about would be Bowden. Like Bowden is such a great guy. I don't know if he listens to our show or not. But seriously, I hope this bit gets to him or this part because the community loves Bowden because he loves the community. He is part of the best parts of this community. And I think that's why so many people like Tealess and just all these wonderful people that we get to talk to behind the scenes like Franchi and Christian and Sarah. They just – they have such a high respect for Steve and what he has done for the community, for the industry, and it's just – I think that's the only reason we don't want to see this fail. I think we can all agree though that if this does fail, Bowden is going to be okay because I think that any other company out there would be completely foolish not to pick him up. I can't believe he hasn't gotten picked up already to be quite honest. So I don't know if – I don't know. Well, he hasn't left. He's not really available. So it's yeah, I just think that, OK, I I've already said the chance of them actually being a successful company at this point or zero. Like it's never going to happen. This is going to this is going to go exactly down in the not every backstory is different, but this is going to be another skip B. This is going to be another Zidware. This is going to be another highway pinball. This is going to be like all of these want to be startup companies that just never actually do anything. That's them. That's what they're going to be. Yeah. Honestly, though, if this – I say if, not when, Deep Root fails, there's no way. There's no way that anyone picks up Papa Duke, right? Like there's no other company that approaches him? There are other designers. You can develop new people without – Plenty of factory company. But seriously, like it's been a decade now, hasn't it, since Zidware? Yeah. It was around the Jersey Jack starting up with Wizard of Oz is when we started seeing Magic Girl and Foam Corgate and all that crap, right? Like this has been going on for a decade at least. Yeah, he's done. He is – there's no chance that he will design another pinball machine. I honestly – I genuinely want him on. I wish we could somehow – I don't care if it's Super Awesome Pinball Show. I don't care if it's even Kaneda. I want to hear from Papaduke because we haven't heard from him in years. I want to hear how his mind operates because all this just – it's all hearsay. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like it's all down the tin can with the string. Like we're all just getting it secondhand. I want to know from the source. He won't do it. I know. Not only will Robert not let him for fear of damage to Deep Root, but he won't do it personally because he knows the questions will eventually get around to you stole a bunch of money from people. Yeah. And he just doesn't want to do it. And he was convicted of that. Like he was actually convicted in a court of law. Well, honestly, I want to ask that question because it's obviously somewhat resolved with Robert Mueller and the paying out of the Zidware customers and stuff like that. I want to know his philosophy on all this stuff because it doesn't make sense to me.
    93:29
    Like I said, there's just a lot of it that – I feel like there's unanswered questions, and the only person that's going to be able to answer them is Papa Duke. I don't think you're going to get a straight answer from him. He's a politician. he's you know he's a wordsmith he's gonna he's gonna he's a salesman you know it's it's never gonna be a uh the answer that you want unfortunately yeah yeah you're probably right and i know it's not really an apt comparison because it's not the same thing i totally get it but when someone really i'm trying to think of the right nice family friendly way of saying this when someone really crushes you on some level, right? What do you ultimately want is you want that person? Well, okay. Yes. Yes. You, you want to, uh, to sever his head and put it on a spike in front of your lawn and say, don't ever do that. No. Um, you want them to feel what you're feeling, right? I mean, that's ultimately when a relationship disintegrates, you want that person to feel what you're going through, because it's obviously painful. You're obviously feeling sorrow, but ultimately that stuff never happens. And so for, I think that what people, all the, all the carcasses that Papa Duke has left in his wake, ultimately they want him to feel godly sorrow for what he has done. But I don't think that's ever going to happen. I don't either. There's lots of people in this hobby, unfortunately, that have personality disorders and just don't feel empathy. Podcasts too, by the way. Yes. Don't feel, period. Yes. And unfortunately, I think he may be one of them. So he's never going to give you the closure that you want. So it's almost better that he is in the shadows and isn't out there talking smack. It's like mafia guys dying with secrets. Yeah, it would just make people more upset and angry, I think. Yeah, probably. I think you're right. So, I don't know. Someone pick up Bowden. Let's just close this chapter. Let's just call it good. Let's move on, yeah. Well, you know, America's got pinballs higher than everybody. So is Jersey Jack. They need, yeah, you know, David Fix, you know, self-proclaims himself as, I shouldn't say self-proclaims himself, but agrees that he probably needs some, what do you call that?
    95:58
    When you open up your mouth and you go, oh, I probably shouldn't have said that. Damage control. So we let David do his job, which he's doing well, hiring these people and all that. And then we put Steven out as the face of American pinball. That would be, I think that's brilliant. I really do because Steven would be fantastic. Yeah, it puts both people in their prime position. And, you know, David doing what he's doing behind the scenes put, you know, Stephen out in front. Because, you know, Stephen's got a hug for everybody, you know. Wouldn't you just buy anything he's selling? That's the thing. Can any company do better than a guy who everybody loves? I mean, it's a no-brainer.
    96:39
    Oh, my goodness. Well, I'm glad that we were able to talk deep root and that you finally got to let your feelings out about that franchise. Because I know that you've been dying to do that. Yeah. Oh, you should have heard some of the rants. I wish I saved them. Actually, I do still have them. I have all the master recordings. I could go compile all of those. Don't go there. Do not go there. Don't relive the past. When we stopped our show, I was like, you know what? One of the best parts of doing the Super Awesome Pinball Show was all of the stuff that we couldn't air. You know, the hours that we had with Jeremy Packer and with Roger Sharp and with a bunch of other, like, big names that are just either for NDA reasons or you know it's political reasons we couldn't air um we just learned so much cool stuff and it was just great to to shoot the breeze with these guys and hear all their backstories so uh you know podcasting does pay even though a lot of podcasters say it doesn't it it it pays you in the sense that you get that stuff that no one else really does so i i enjoy that and i'm really glad that the the loser kids are keeping on on the the regular scheduled every two weeks because you guys put out a phenomenal show um i know franchi and i are both fans and we listen every time um hello oh sorry and mrs pin even though you're not you don't listen to podcasts religiously like we do i know i don't care it just doesn't mean i'm not a fan i wear their swag all the time she may even be the ultimate loser kid fan because she truly does living that's right everyone in everyone at my school is like what's loser kid i'm like it's this great podcast i am seriously spreading your message to all of the third graders i know you might have to fight elwynn for that because i know that someone come to came to me that works at stern was like josh do you realize like seriously like elwynn always is wearing your hat i'm like yeah always no but that's awesome i could just make a suggestion and ask if you guys could maybe get him on your show once in a while. That would be great. I know. Please try. You haven't had. He doesn't return. Okay, Sarah, have you worn the Loser Kid earrings that you helped make? Yes. I kept a pair for myself. I think I actually might have kept two just in case. I have a tendency to lose earrings, so sometimes I keep two pairs.
    99:00
    Yeah, so that's actually my favorite part of the story is that on one of those sticker mule things, I got all these small cutout things, and I was planning on giving these out and I just haven't got around to it. Yeah, yeah. But I am not a crafty person, so I sent it to Crafterella and Mrs. Pin, all earring them up. And so if you really want that way of letting your significant other have like that gift that you just don't know what else is cool, we have Loser Kid Pinball earrings. There you go. Totally not getting it. For all the womps out there. For all the womps. Nice. you know hey no no i'm not just one if you're a dude and you want to rock these earrings i will give you a personal yeah that sounds good to me yeah put them in your nose what i'd hate to see some of those dangle it right from your schnaz i have one hole i do my left ear pierced but i have a nipple ringing right now i actually this is probably we can already say you probably shouldn't say no it's not that bad it's not Oh, if it's not that bad, it's bad. It's not that bad. Well, I've had my ear pierced, my left ear pierced since, like, high school. But I think about 10 years ago, a girl that I knew was having this, like, you know, a daughter of one of my friends was having this, like, jewelry sale. And so I'm like, I'll come over. You know, you want to give to the kids, you know. So I look through and I find this here. And I'm like, oh, do you have one of these? Like, this looks a little wide. It was a little hoop with a ball on it. And I'm like, this looks a little wide. Do you have one of these? She goes, no. She goes, that's actually a nipple ring. I'm like, oh, really? So I bought it and I put it in. And it was a little wide. I had it like my ear. Okay, in your ear or your nipple? In my ear. And it was a little wide. It hurt for a little while. But I have not taken it out since then. It's been in my ear for 10 years. Wow.
    101:00
    That's exclusive. Loser Kid podcast exclusive. He's got a nipple ring in his ear. If you ever want to really, truly know Franchi's history, you need to have him send you his high school glamour shot where he's in his rocker phase. It is truly something to be seen. And you have to be really good friends with him because he doesn't want it out there. But if you're friends with him and he can trust you, you will see something that is truly epic. Dude, I was in show choir. I have pictures of me with sequined vest and clogging shoes on. Oh, I wouldn't even share that with Christian if that was me. Yeah, if that isn't a vision, I don't know what is. Have you ever seen that picture of The Rock where he's like a high school guy leaning against the staircase with that white T-shirt on? With the fanny pack. It's an equivalent picture of that. That's like my space camp pictures. Yes. Yeah. You were hot even back then. You went to space camp? Heck yeah. You went to space camp? I sure did. I totally – I want to go to space. I know. And Canada too. Who couldn't love a girl that went to space camp? Extra legit.
    102:07
    Windbreakers, scrunchies. It was awesome. Siphonies? Yeah. Heck yeah. All right. Let's wrap this up because it's midnight for you guys. We really appreciate you coming on the show.
    102:22
    How can people reach you if you want to be reached? We still have the Facebook page open. Yeah. Because all along we weren't planning on really going anywhere. So that and our email, which is superawesomepinball at gmail.com and our respective personal pages. We've got about 25 episodes of Super Awesome Pinball Show out there if you want to catch up. And Mrs. Pin has what, 85? 85. 85 apps. All right. And also on Cointaker, you can go and there's a link that says Super Awesome. And there are five shirts available. and I've got my eye on the silver baller. Very nice. Oh, yes. We're going to have some new ones coming out. Those are just about gone. So my advice to you is order soon if you want to get it. Well, I already have one of them. I have the original one with the super awesome pinball show. So now I'm going to get the silver baller. Yeah, and then there's silver ball swag too, our logo on there. That's where we do the monthly T-shirt club. it's not a club where you have to join and you're forced to get a shirt you know every month we just offer if you recruit four friends you get a t-shirt yeah it's just every month we come out and we've already got people crying because they missed some of the past ones and i'm like everyone told you up front it's a monthly thing once they're done they're done that's the exclusivity so we're still we're still doing that so you can go to and we've got our other junk up there too incidentally all this other stuff we're doing like with uh you know the the new show that's centered around the game reveals and the fireside chats and all that all that stuff's branded under super awesome so it's all going to be a super awesome show product you know so that name that logo is not going anywhere awesome awesome awesome i'm excited i i'm excited that you guys are going to still be doing some stuff so yeah we can't we can't say goodbye for for good because you can say our we had too much fun i mean christian and i like i just i miss it not because we're not putting out a product but because i missed doing you know sitting down and recording with christian you know every other one that was the best part of the show honestly it was just it was hanging out talking pinball having a few drinks and uh and just having fun before and after oh my god banter we didn't record there was at least an hour of just randomness after every episode that is really probably where the best stuff was that we never just put out but lots of laughs and just to tease I'm hoping the first fireside chat is going to be with Mr. George Gomez George is so great yeah tell George hi I will alrighty if you want to get a hold of us we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com you can also find us on Facebook at Loser Kid Pinball along with Instagram and Twitter we are also on Twitch at Loser Kid Pinball Podcast or to me it's just Loser Kid Pinball. I can't ever remember. But if you want to get a hold of us, those are the ways to get a hold of us. We really appreciate the emails you've been sending in and all the positive vibes. We thank you for just listening to us and hanging out with us to chat. Anything else you got for us, Scott? No, I think it's really good. Go and buy a few t-shirts and I can't wait for the next, especially Mrs. Pin because currently there's no games coming out. but I want to hear those five hours of episodes. I don't even know what's on there. It's going to be like a surprise for everybody, including myself.
    105:53
    Thank you guys so much for having us on. Thanks guys. Yeah. Thanks. We had a good time. Anytime. Heck yes.
    106:14
    Bye.