Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

WTF is THIS?!

Cary Hardy·video·35m 30s·analyzed·Nov 5, 2024
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Wonderland Amusements' sub-$1k home pinball faces skepticism on component scaling and market viability.

Summary

Cary Hardy analyzes Wonderland Amusements' ambitious three-quarter scale home pinball machine project revealed at Pinball Expo. The company, founded by Jerry, the creator of Arcade1Up, aims to produce a sub-$1,000 pinball machine targeting casual players, with an Alice in Wonderland theme. Hardy expresses significant skepticism about the feasibility of meeting the price point while delivering actual pinball quality, citing the complexity of scaling down components and the lack of pinball expertise on the team.

Key Claims

  • Jerry, creator of Arcade1Up, is founding Wonderland Amusements to make a three-quarter scale pinball machine at under $1,000

    high confidence · Direct statement from Jerry in interview footage analyzed by Hardy

  • The prototype ball size is 22mm compared to a standard 26-27mm pinball, approximately 80-85% scale

    high confidence · Andre Carol (R&D) provides specific measurements in interview

  • Wonderland Amusements plans a Kickstarter campaign in Q1 2025 with target ship-by-end-of-year

    high confidence · Peter Gold (Marketing) states Kickstarter timing in interview

  • First functional prototype expected by CES (January 2025)

    high confidence · Team member states 'first prototype with functional parts probably by CES in the next two months'

  • The machine will feature two flippers, multiball, and multiple ramps in current design

    high confidence · Interview discussion of planned features

  • Hardy believes the sub-$1,000 price point is not achievable given component complexity

    high confidence · Hardy's repeated skepticism throughout analysis: 'I don't see it' and predictions of cost overruns

  • Jerry acknowledged he is not a pinball expert and only learned about machines during Pinball Expo visit

    high confidence · Direct quote from Jerry: 'I'm not a pinball guy'

  • Target market is casual players wanting pinball nostalgia at affordable price, not enthusiasts

    high confidence · Marketing positioning discussed: 10-20 minute casual gameplay sessions

Notable Quotes

  • “I'd love to make it at a price point that's sub a thousand dollars. Yes that's my goal.”

    Jerry (Wonderland Amusements CEO/Creator)@ 0:00 — Core business claim that drives entire analysis; defines the fundamental challenge

  • “I don't know how you're going to do it. I've seen what you have in this and other arcade machines with the price tag that you put on them. I don't see it.”

    Kong (in interview footage)@ 12:18 — Expert skepticism mirroring Hardy's own concerns about feasibility

  • “I'm not a pinball guy. I haven't designed it yet. I really have not designed it.”

    Jerry@ 14:59 — Reveals lack of domain expertise at founding moment; red flag for product credibility

  • “I feel like this is going to be just enough pinball to piss you off, okay? And that's just what it's going to be.”

    Cary Hardy@ 10:19 — Hardy's blunt assessment of product-market fit for enthusiasts

  • “We're just going to cross that bridge when we get to it.”

    Wonderland Amusements team member (responding to playability questions)@ 11:37 — Indicates lack of planning on critical design questions; triggers Hardy's skepticism spike

  • “It's a niche space that doesn't exist, right?”

    Kong (in interview footage), referencing the sub-$1,000 serious pinball market@ 25:17 — Questions whether the market segment Wonderland targets actually exists

Entities

Wonderland AmusementscompanyJerrypersonCary HardypersonAndre CarolpersonPeter GoldpersonKongpersonArcade1UpcompanyStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Wonderland Amusements appears to be attempting an economically unfeasible sub-$1,000 price point given component scaling requirements and manufacturing complexity

    high · Hardy's repeated assertion 'I don't see it' regarding feasibility; Kong agrees in interview; team members admit 'we're just going to cross that bridge when we get to it' when asked about component costs and playability trade-offs

  • ?

    business_signal: Kickstarter funding model chosen despite complexity of product; typical Kickstarter audience may be inadequate for manufacturing risk of this scale

    high · Hardy: 'when you hear the word Kickstarter and then it like... it's going to be a hard sell to get this thing off the ground with enough people unless the entire arcade one up crowd gets in here and even then i don't think that's going to be enough'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Enthusiast community will likely view Wonderland machine as insufficient/toy-like rather than engaging with product as legitimate pinball alternative

    high · Hardy: 'We're going to look at this, and we're going to make fun of it like I am right now' and 'this is not marketed towards us pinball enthusiasts. It's not towards us.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Three-quarter scale form factor risks becoming 'just enough pinball to piss you off' rather than satisfying either casual players or enthusiasts

    high · Hardy's assessment and comparison to failed Zizzle product; market defined as 'niche space that doesn't exist' by Kong; targeting 10-20 minute casual sessions incompatible with pinball depth

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Alice in Wonderland theme selection driven by public domain licensing to reduce costs, not thematic fit or market demand

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.106

0:00
and i'd love to make it at a price point that's a sub a thousand dollars yes that's my goal that's that's amazing i i don't know how you're gonna do it i've seen what you have in this and other arcade machines with the price tag that you put on them i don't see it it's finally here guys the 10,000 subscriber super limited to amount sold anniversary edition t-shirt and to celebrate this occasion i have changed the logo to red and white because that makes it special and along with this i have fictional quotes from pinball manufacturers as if they were the ones that were making this t-shirt and some of the pinball manufacturers approve of this shirt get yours today at silverballswag.com links in the video description down below what's up guys so could be doing something a little bit different today or tonight i'd rather i mean i have started drinking and i because i felt like i needed to be a little inebriated for what i'm about to go through and the thing is this is all about the wonderland amusements in the making okay for those guys that have not seen what they are working on or what potentially they are going to be working on it's this now i spoke to one of the individuals at wonderland amusements and the individual i spoke with is not like presented in this video this is actually the ceo that has more knowledge of what is going on but i'll go through some of my experiences like i said i had basically kind of went away in the interview with somebody but i didn't record it but uh i'm gonna be using kong's rsb i'm using a good amount of your footage in this video by all means i'll put a link in the description below where you can find his channel and everything and the link to the actual full length video and stuff but i'm just gonna just watch it and like you know at all i'm obviously gonna be editing it because you don't need to see the whole thing here but i i'm curious of what his answers are gonna be like compared to the answers that i received now hold on but from what i gathered so far whenever i had my discussion with somebody is that This is so early. Very early. So early, in fact, that I do not think they should have brought this to Expo.
3:05
But we'll see how that may change further in the video. Let's get it started. How are you? Very good. Good, good. Tell me about your background and kind of introduce yourself. Sure, sure. So I've been a designer of toy products for almost 35 years. So I've been enjoying the street. I created the Vortex football. Nice. I have one of those. You have one of those? That's great.

  • “You're going to have to like configure and remake all these components for a pop bumper and how many components are in a pop bumper... that's when you're going to be like, shit.”

    Cary Hardy@ 34:07 — Hardy's specific technical prediction of manufacturing shock at component scaling

  • “You don't even know yet! You don't even know! You don't know the freaking cost of your components. You don't know the layout. You barely know what theme you're doing.”

    Cary Hardy@ 28:24 — Captures Hardy's frustration with vague promises given incomplete design state

    • Alice in Wonderland
    game
    Vortex Footballproduct
    Costcocompany
    Silver Ball Swagcompany
    Pinball Expoevent
    CESevent
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Zizzlecompany
    Disneycompany
    Mattelcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Walmartcompany
    GameStopcompany

    high · Team member: 'it's a free license it's up for grabs so that's where they're going to be saving a little bit of money there is on the licensing of it'

  • $

    market_signal: Potential market cannibalization if positioned near Stern home editions ($5,000 at Costco); unclear if casual audience will pay $999 for diminished experience vs full-size alternative

    high · Hardy's analysis: 'if it's set up next to a stern home edition you're definitely going to be looking at this like some freaking poi and then with spacing'

  • ?

    community_signal: Jerry (CEO) is a toy designer without pinball expertise attempting to lead a pinball machine company; admits learning about pinball machines for first time at Pinball Expo during product development

    high · Direct quote: 'I'm not a pinball guy' and 'I haven't designed it yet. I really have not designed it' stated during interview where product is already at Expo

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Jerry departed Arcade1Up and is now leading Wonderland Amusements; framed as no ill will but circumstances unclear

    medium · Jerry: 'I no longer work with those guys, but I'm fine. I have no ill will.' Hardy notes industry pattern suggests untold reasons for separation

  • ?

    product_strategy: Ambitious timeline (functional prototype by CES January 2025, Kickstarter Q1 2025, shipping end of 2025) appears unrealistic given early design stage and acknowledged unknowns

    high · Hardy's reaction: 'You don't even know yet! You don't know the freaking cost of your components. You don't know the layout.' Combined with team's vague responses about design maturity

  • ?

    technology_signal: Scaling down all mechanical components (flippers, bumpers, ramps) presents unknown engineering challenges; team appears to be discovering complexity as they build

    high · Hardy's prediction: 'You're going to have to like configure and remake all these components for a pop bumper and how many components are in a pop bumper... that's when you're going to be like, shit'

    • 3:30
    I used to own a Vortex football as well as a kid. I had, I want to say it was like purple and black.
    3:39
    That's my vague memory of it. But that is one of those toys that I definitely did enjoy for as long as I did have it. I had it for a very long time. It was really cool how it had that whistling sound whenever you threw it. I don't know. I digress. So what I gather so far is that he's got a lot of experience in toys. And I look at his bio right here that B has put on here for us, and his expertise spans everything from blue line sketches to 3D renderings and retail-ready products. Jerry has collaborated with top brands like Disney, Mattel, Hasbro, and Fisher-Price to bring imaginative ideas to life.
    4:18
    So, toys. So I've been designing toys, creating products, manufacturing those products overseas for almost 35 years. Nice. So in this particular product, you may know or may not know that I am the creator of Arcade1Up. So I designed... Is that something to brag about?
    4:48
    Is it? I mean, I don't mean like arcade one-up, like all of it is just crap or anything. I understand that it's definitely reached a wide audience, and a lot of people love what they've done. Okay? It's the price range is right there for people, and the space that it takes up is reasonable for a lot of people.
    5:13
    I've got one here, but mainly just because of the cabinet. I mean, I want to get something better than this, obviously, but this is just fine for what I have now.
    5:23
    So already starting out with that he made Arcade 1-Up, I see the pros and I guess a little bit of the cons with that. I created Arcade 1-Up. I no longer work with those guys, but I'm fine. I have no ill will. I wish them well. But I learned a lot about manufacturing big box items overseas.
    5:46
    So it kind of makes you wonder, you know, it's always funny whenever, you know, there's a separation between two entities on what the other person or individual or entity is going to say about the one that they left. You know, there's no ill will. I mean, that's a common thing to say. What usually causes this separation is a. I mean, there's a number of things that could be kind of thing. But from what I gather, from what little I am in within the Arcade 1-Up space with other content creators, it looks like Arcade 1-Up is not doing very well currently. Evidently, they're doing a lot of rinse and repeat of machines that have already been done.
    6:30
    Quality's evidently going downhill. They're making machines that are just really just to look at, that they're not even really that functional. I guess that's including their newest crane machine and stuff. So kind of curious of why he's no longer with them. We're not going to get that answer from him, I'm pretty sure. But, yeah, we'll see what else we get. And that's how I got started with this particular product. Yes, so Wonderland Amusements, a new company, new name, and a new vision for a smaller scale pinball machine. Obviously looking at it first off, you may not tell, but is there an actual scale for this? I know home arcades were used to three-quarter scales. Would you say this is a three-quarter scale or is it its own size? Well, it's its own size. I don't know the percentage that it is less than a real size, to be honest with you. Okay. I want to say that that machine is basically a gutted, blacked-out version of an AtGames or something like that pinball machine that's currently on the market. All right. So, hold on. stop loading all the ads but correct me if i'm wrong which it's not impossible guys but that looks pretty damn similar to what we just saw uh it's you got the same kind of like uh height and size i don't know if they have this in the back where it's curvature on the back box but it looks damn close to what we're seeing in this video but it it looks damn close and it's it's definitely uh not full size i mean and here's the thing i'm not sure if he's going to discuss this during this interview or anything but this is more than likely not going to be their cabinet it might it just looks so damn close to like at games the the attack from mars i mean this i'm pretty sure this was not built by them for the show this was probably something that they took that was already existed to just kind of give people something physical to look at and touch going on obviously looking at it first off you may not tell but is there an actual scale for this I know home arcades were used to three scales Would you say this is a three scale or is it its own size Well it its own size I don know the percentage that it is less than a real size to be honest with you I did measure out real pinball machines, so the height is what a real pinball machine is. But I know that my pinball machine is five inches not as long as a standard. And it's about three inches to four inches smaller in the width than a standard pinball machine. Nice. Very cool. All right. So, again, I think the key thing about this, it's made for more of the, I would say, casual community. The closest comparison that I thought of when I first heard about this product was the Zizzo pinball machine. It was like kind of a physical version that was made for the home. But tell me your vision for from that to kind of the Stern pinball. Okay, so, B, I'm glad that you brought up the Zizzle games because that was what came to my mind as well when it came to what they were building and what they were working on in the price range that they were looking at. I'm like this. And from the experience of Jerry here, it seems like what they're going to be making is a toy. Okay. The ball size is literally like a three-quarter size of your typical 1-1-16 pinball. So the ball is already smaller, which means everything else is going to be smaller. I feel like this is going to be just enough pinball to piss you off, okay? And that's just what it's going to be. So I can already tell you, I'm only a couple of minutes into this, but I do not think this is marketed towards us pinball enthusiasts. It's not towards us. this is towards people that are not familiar with real the size pinball machines like at all these are the people that are like looking for something that's close enough or something to give them a little bit of a nostalgia feeling but i just don't know how they're going to do it in this form factor for the price range that they're looking at i don't know let's see what else they got to say Sure, okay. Like, where's your product gonna fall within that range? Well, um, I'm familiar with that sizzle product, uh, and I didn't like it very much. I felt it was more of a toy than it was of a pinball machine. Well, that's my point!
    11:18
    I'm curious on how you're gonna be able to do this in the price range and it not feel like a toy. And when I was asking the individual some of these questions, it seemed like it was like, yeah, we're just going to cross that bridge when we get to it. Yeah, we're going to cross that bridge when we get to it. Like, you don't have answers for this?
    11:44
    What? So that's really when I was thinking about when I left Arcade 1 up, I did think about, you know what? Pinball machines. I wonder if we can take the same formula and make a three-quarter scale.
    12:00
    real pinball machine. So that's my goal right now. I want to make a three-quarter inch scale. I want to make a good playing machine that looks really well. Nice. And I'd love to make it at a price point that's a sub a thousand dollars. Yes. That's my goal. That's amazing. I don't know how you're going to do it. I've seen what you have in this and other arcade machines with the price tag that you put on them.
    12:35
    I don't see it. I'm like going in my mind of all the mechanical parts that you're going to need, all the electrical components that you're going to need.
    12:49
    There's no way. I really think that's kind of the trigger point of this, because the next closest home third pin, if you will, is a $5,000 pin that's currently selling at Costco. And so that's that market. But sub $1,000, that sounds amazing. But from a physical standpoint, what do you think some of the features will include? Is it going to look like a standard pinball? This doesn't actually have anything in the play field at the moment. But what can people expect to see inside? Well, to be honest with you, I'm such a...
    13:21
    B, you're doing good on the questions here. just wanted to state that right here before we continue i i i'm curious to see what his answer is in the early stages of designing one of the reasons i'm here at the show is to learn and because this is the biggest show pinball show there is so every pinball machine that there is on the floor right now and i'm kind of learning i'm not i'll be honest with you i'm not a pinball guy oh my god i need a refill i've got i can make it work for another couple of sips but uh
    13:58
    all right so the red flags are starting to drop you're not a pinball guy so maybe some of your team members are pinball guys. But I'll tell you right now, you're not going to be completely educated by one visit to Pinball Expo over the weekend.
    14:21
    So I'm being fair about this, but I'm learning. That's great that you acknowledge that right now after making a product. But I want to look at real pinball, and I want to say, okay, these are the things that are necessary to be in a good playing machine. You know, proper flippers, proper you know those bumpers those whatever is proper in a pinball machine mine's gonna have it proper means it's gonna be full-size and the quality which also means cost money oh my god so so I'm learning right now I haven't designed it yet I really have not designed it over the next eight months I will be designing well thanks again Jerry good luck thank you very much thank you very much all right okay so that was the CEO and evidently he's designing it that's what it seemed like but I we got a couple of other people here let's see what they're doing
    15:40
    Peter gold with one of the musings I am I'm happy I was a marketing and operations for the company I'm Andre Carol so I am be doing R&D and private development on actually building the physical machine.
    16:02
    Andreas, I do not envy your job right now because it seems like you guys are in over your head, at least at the current price point. I predict that the price point that you're aiming for is not going to be made. in the upcoming months you're going to realize this can't be done not at the price point that we're looking at you're going to be doing a lot of r&d you're going to find out that all the components that you're wanting to put inside this machine are going to have to be proprietary for your equipment because if you try gathering equipment from pinball live from terry like or from rick from planetary pinball to get the proper bally williams parts one you're gonna be spending out the ass for the licensing for like using those parts or whatever and i'm kind of curious on how well the materials would hold up with holding those heavy actual components i am i am uh thirsty this is the first look at this machine itself so i mean the size of it i was actually asking jerry like do you guys think there's a scale for this how would you guys consider this compared to like a full-size? We were saying three-quarters scale, but now that it's getting closer, it might be more like 80, 85% scale of a full-size. Yeah, I mean, I think if you look at the size of the ball compared to like an original pinball, this is 22 millimeters. A full-size pinball is a 27, I think, right? 26, 27. So I don't know what that scale is. Can do math that quickly You probably can But yeah so with the pinball itself But yeah but that the ball itself and I think if you imagine that uh You gotta do a shit ton of imagining You got us nothing to work with here.
    17:54
    Nothing. It was like just a blank fucking canvas for us to go, just imagine what you could do. Oh, I can imagine. I can imagine like crazy what you could do. But how you gonna do it is the press raise that you're talking about. It ain't gonna happen. I need another drink.
    18:17
    Pour myself another drink. Oh, yeah. How much? All right, so we're about halfway through the video right now. Let's see. And all the components and all the play fields scale down. You'll get an idea. So I mean obviously there's no play-through in here, but this is...
    19:05
    quarter scale pinball that you've got and develop something with ramps and I don't think you're going to have mechs. I don't see it. I don't see what kind of mechs you're going to have. And if you're going to have something that regards to mechs, it's, uh, I don't know. I don't know. I just don't know how they're going to do it. The potential size of the cabinet, is there going to be much changes from this to the final cabinet? For the size of the box, we're pretty happy with this we're actually already pretty far along with the mechanical design of all the different parts inside we're expecting our first prototype with functional parts probably by ces in the next two months and we're just kind of getting all the parts together so they're going to be taking this to ces holy shit so let's let's see how things go right now so right now this is basically their first like this is something to give you an idea just use your imagination guys this is what we're working on but we're going to have something for ces in a couple of months so that i want to say ces is in what january and i'm curious if one they show up and two how far along are they together um but so far we're liking the height we're liking the width we're liking the overall feel i think it's now just a matter of making sure all the components fit we can fit in you know the bumpers the flippers yeah we want to have multi ball in there we want to have probably like a seven seven fan array of different ramps and stuff to go up and down so what are we looking at because there's obviously the lego design what is the theme of the pinball I can assume it's definitely a classic Alice in Wonderland but based off the uh based off the novel so we got another alice in wonderland game in the works but this one's based off the lewis carroll novel okay i mean that's that's a good way to go because it's a free license it's a it's up for grabs so that's where they're going to be saving a little bit of money right there is on the licensing of it i'm kind of curious of what they're going to do when it comes to animation and stuff because we i don't think they have anybody on the crew that is familiar with that so it's gonna be a third-party source if I had to guess at this point in time you're gonna see all your usual characters we'll have a section for Mad Hatter we'll have a Cheshire Cad we have a whole Queen of Hearts section in a castle that we're ideating up right now so we try want to hit all the main characters each of them have their own little space in the space and you know where they are and how big they are and what's going to be a sculptural element versus what's a printed elements all being worked out right now obviously like we want more sculptures to make it more fun and interactive but we have to balance that with price and yes you do you're gonna do a lot of balancing with everything when it comes to your price uh sculpts oh here's the thing also like i said earlier i got i gotta like say this is like they're not marketing towards the masses they want it to be towards the masses but i it's not going to be towards us pinball enthusiasts It's just not. We're going to look at this, and we're going to make fun of it like I am right now. What this is going to be going towards is those of us, or those people out there, that want a pinball machine. They want to have a little bit of that nostalgia, but they don't want that price tag that they're seeing on all the machines, whether it be the second-hand market or even new in box. And this is kind of prevalent to the Costco with Stern's Jurassic Park. Great game. good quality and everything when you walk up to it and you see a five thousand dollar price tag it's it's pretty intimidating for a lot of people out there that aren't familiar with the true cost of what these things have and so maybe if you see one of these things set up at a costco and you go up to it and it's 999 and you're able to flip it like an actual pinball machine you might get some customers but if it's set up next to a stern home edition
    23:20
    you're definitely going to be looking at this like some freaking poi and then with spacing so we're just we're figuring all that out right now there's a lot of room to play with like in terms of the size component of it i like it seeing it in person it's like gives you still enough depth and then making inside tell me about kind of who this is for is this going to be for kind of Oh, this is good. I cannot wait to hear this answer right here. Because, one, I was about to give you some shit there, B, about what your question was going. I'm like, dude, lay off the butter right here. Don't need to butter the bread too much. But they kind of look a little scared right now, too, according to this.
    24:01
    But definitely he's asking them what their target is. So I'm definitely curious to hear their answer. Let's see this. Alright, well you can tell he's in marketing because he is totally answering this kind of like a politician. They asked who his target market is, who are you targeting towards, and he has yet to answer that. Whoa, it's packed with some stuff!
    24:41
    That's what I would consider the essence of pinball. That's what we're going to capture in this machine. And I think if you start with that idea and build out from there, I think that's the idea. That being said, that makes it kind of a more casual game, right? Okay, finally, we get there to a little bit of an answer right here. More of a casual, okay. So it's for somebody who maybe does what I just said, walks up, plays 10, 15, 20 minutes, plays a couple games, and then maybe doesn't play again for a little while, right? I would stand it by the stuff 1,000 kind of target price point. Yeah, yeah. It's a niche space that doesn't exist, right? I mean, that's the idea. Yeah, yeah.
    25:32
    tell like where people potentially get more places to get okay so what he just asked because it's a little hard to hear that he asked them what do you project like when do you project this game to be out and when will it be and how will it be at will it be available like retail or what so this is let's see what his response is so i think right now we're considering a kickstarter what he did not just say that hold up let me rewind so i think right now we're considering a kickstarter Red flag on the play. Look, look, look, no, no, no, no, no.
    26:31
    Jesus that point in time where you put some time and effort and some drinks in you and you curious about a product and then you hear the word Kickstarter and then it like well why am I even doing this So. Whatever. OK. Probably the next Q1. Yeah, probably like Q1 of 2025.
    26:58
    Once we really have it dialed in and we know what we're making. So Q1 of 2025 is when he's looking at doing a Kickstarter. And what is the first thing at Q1 of 2025 that they've already stated that they're going to be attending CES? So I wonder if the Kickstarter is going to be implemented after CES, during, before, what? and it's also one of those things where it's like a kickstarter or something this complicated is going to be a difficult sell there's one thing where i've seen kickstarters for like new board games or other kind of simplistic designs that barely make it but end up doing it and congratulations to them but when you have something this complex but to manufacturer right it's it's gonna be a hard sell to get this thing off the ground with enough people unless the entire arcade one up crowd gets in here and even then i don't think that's going to be enough to kickstart this i think as soon as we know that we'll do a kickstarter that will ship by the end of the year um and then retail by the end of the year possibly You don't even know yet! You don't even know! You don't know the freaking cost of your components. You don't know the layout. You barely know what theme you're doing. You don't even know all this stuff yet, guy. Peter, there's so much that's in the air right now, and you're trying to say that, you know, end of the quarter next year. You don't know that. you're starting you know what this guy he should work for a chicago gaming company he should be marketing for them now because he's already got the lingo down should be next year could be next year yeah okay it kind of depends uh we're still pretty early on i mean i just don't really know yeah you know like there's a lot that we don't know it might be like a single retailer for 2025 if not definitely the next year we'll do it and then the retailers are the same place we sold some of our last products out it's hopefully costco walmart will be a big one gamestop if they have room for it um so yeah hopefully this table or future tables like this like this table like they're working on ram the deer in the headlights that i just saw as b asks him about merely design layout for this game he's like oh for this game or for future titles like no like we're talking about now the one that should be probably pretty far along not like upcoming titles you better not even have other titles lined up behind this one yet you need to focus on this you need to focus on whether or not you can actually build this at the price you're looking at you've got a cabinet that's it i could do this i could literally do this there's very little guys that i see a company promote and say that they're going to do that i can go i could do this i literally could do what they're doing right now. I could have a tablet behind a monitor. I could have all this cabinet put together and be like, yeah, this is what I plan on doing. And we're just going to see how it goes.
    30:43
    And if I could do it, that's a very low fricking bar. To me, like I'm all multi-ball, multi-ball, multi-ball. If you're all multi-ball, multi-ball, multi-ball, then you should go work for Jersey Jack. go go play guns and roses and then you'll you'll you'll be a big fan of that game oh my god so like i'm always excited about like about like how we load our multi-ball how you activate your multi-ball how quick you can get multi-ball like i think one of the funnest things is when you have like the chaos of everything flowing around so that's why i i look at i disagree with this to an extent guys i believe multi-ball should definitely be something that you work towards but i feel like it should also be earned okay not how quickly so much that you can load a multi-ball but you could do it quickly if you accomplish the correct tasks and for instance i use the game black knight 2000 as a good example of this like technically could you load up your multi-ball for that game if you're skilled enough yes you could but it's not like exactly easy to go about doing it for me at least but it's still like an earned thing and it's a pretty big kind of moment whenever you know it's the battle and you had the multi-ball going that's a it's that never got old for me by the one feature i'm most excited about and i'm spending like the most time thinking about right now yeah is it going to be a two-flipper for now right now we're doing two we have two flippers right now is our current model so they have a two flipper currently as their uh design for this okay so he uh b is going into his final thoughts so look let me close this out b uh by the way thank you very much for uh i'm going to say allowing me to use this i'm going to assume it's okay with you but like i'm obviously giving you the credit here link like i said to his channel video description down below but because like i said i already interviewed somebody at expo and spoke with them about this and the amount of information i just got from this video is not a great deal more than i obtained from somebody else like i stated it was more of like you know we're still early we're still figuring these things out uh yeah we're just gonna have to see well what about this yeah we're just gonna have to see okay i get you you're just gonna have to wait and see on this and everything but i also hear that you're doing a kickstarter that's like raise the red flags on this one guys i mean it's like i don't doubt especially when you have the the creator for arcade one-up i have no doubts that like commercially you're able to like you know know how and get this product out to people and stuff but i think what you're gonna to have a rude awakening on is creating the parts that you're going to need in order to do this you're going to have to like configure and remake all these components for a pop bumper and how many components are in a pop bumper how many components are in a whole flipper assembly and then you're going to be like okay so we have to rebuild all of this on a smaller scale
    34:28
    that's when you're going to be like, shit. So there you have it. That's Wonderland Amusements and what they're working on. It's one of those where it's like, I wish them well. And like I said, it's definitely for a market that is not for me, not for majority of the audience that's currently watching this. By all means, I wish you guys nothing but the best. And I'm hoping that, you know, you just blow us out of the water and what you in fact create is something like, wow, how did they go about doing this in the price point that they're asking for? But it's it's going to be I just it's going to be difficult for me to just like I cannot see this. It's difficult. I don't know. I'm going to I'm going to finish this glass off and I don't know if I should do any more recording for tonight.
    35:25
    you