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#42 - Jersey Jack Price Increase, Ball-Egate, AIQ Code Update

A Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·19m 12s·analyzed·Feb 5, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.027

TL;DR

Jersey Jack price hike sparks affordability concerns; Avengers code praised; Led Zeppelin LE redemption story.

Summary

A Pinball Podcast host discusses Jersey Jack's $1,000 price increase on Guns N' Roses LE ($10,500) and SE ($7,750), expressing personal concerns about pricing sustainability and announcing plans to downsize his collection from 18-19 machines to 10-12 due to affordability pressures. He also addresses the "Ballygate" mispronunciation joke, praises new Avengers code updates with added wizard modes, and gives positive impressions of Led Zeppelin LE/Premium after initially lukewarm Pro reception.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack raised Guns N' Roses LE price by $1,000 to $10,500 and SE to $7,750, with SE marked as sold out on their website

    high confidence · Host directly states these new prices and notes the SE is sold out on JJP's website, suggesting no immediate plans to produce more

  • The price increase happened mid-run approximately 36 hours before the podcast recording

    high confidence · Host explicitly states '36 hours as of this podcast' and notes this is surprising because it's mid-production

  • Host speculates another game may be coming sooner rather than later, necessitating the price increase to prevent getting too far behind

    medium confidence · Host's speculation: 'And that means that there could possibly be another game that is coming sooner rather than later, that they realize they cannot get way behind on this'

  • Host believes the Guns N' Roses Collector's Edition would have sold out at $15,000

    medium confidence · Host states from personal analysis: 'I think that machine clearly would have sold out for $15,000. I think it still would have sold out day one.'

  • EM prices have increased dramatically—project EMs now $800-$1,500 where they were $300-$350 two years ago and $100 three years ago

    medium confidence · Host provides specific historical pricing observations: 'It wasn't even just two years ago, guys. I could find a project EM for $300, $350. It was probably three years ago...we bought a project EM for $100.'

  • New Avengers code update added two new wizard modes including Thanos modes

    high confidence · Host states: 'L1 goes and out does himself by adding two more wizard modes in that game...they just fantastic...Thanos modes being added in'

  • Approximately 90% of people the host talks to have positive reactions to Led Zeppelin LE and Premium

    medium confidence · Host claims: 'I can confirm that legitimately, everybody I talk to is probably 90% positive. A lot of people are really enjoying this game'

  • Host's family chose Led Zeppelin Pro over Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles LE when asked which machine to keep

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm getting priced out of the hobby. And I think I'm going to start focusing more on either older machines...I'm going to go ahead and sell off a few machines. I think I going to go down I have 18 right now I believe maybe 19...But I believe I going to go down probably somewhere around 10 or 12”

    Host (A Pinball Podcast) @ mid-podcast — Host publicly announces personal decision to downsize collection in response to pricing pressures, indicating broader market affordability concerns

  • “I have a very hard time justifying opening up my wallet and spending that much money on a particular product in which that is legitimately half of what it would cost for me just to build a shop building to house 20 or 25 of those machines”

    Host @ mid-podcast — Demonstrates the cost-comparison perspective driving consumer hesitation at Jersey Jack price points

  • “From a business perspective...typically when we see a high-end demand product that needs to move a lot of units but is kind of bogged down to where the demand basically eclipses the supply, you will see prices change to try to get an equilibrium of those two things together”

    Host @ early-mid podcast — Host offers balanced economic explanation for the price increase

  • “I am well aware of how it's pronounced. So you guys can stop the emails...I don't play a bunch of tournaments and play in all these things and not realize what the name is”

    Host @ mid-podcast — Clarifies the 'Ballygate' pronunciation joke is intentional trolling of friends, not ignorance

  • “The rule set is outstanding, and not only is it award winning, then L1 goes and out does himself by adding two more wizard modes in that game the journey to play that game it's fantastic it's excellent”

    Host @ late podcast — Strong endorsement of Avengers code quality and designer L1's additional content work

  • “With Led Zeppelin, I lose track of time. I legitimately lose track of time. And my kids are loving it. My wife loves playing it. I mean, the whole family loves playing it.”

    Host @ late podcast — Indicates Led Zeppelin has achieved rare cross-demographic appeal and engagement quality

Entities

Jersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyA Pinball PodcastorganizationGuns N' RosesgameAvengersgameLed ZeppelingameL1person

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack's pricing tier escalation ($7,750-$15,000 range) may be creating unsustainable affordability ceiling for core collector base

    medium · Host announces personal collection downsizing from 18-19 to 10-12 machines directly due to affordability: 'I'm getting priced out of the hobby...these prices for me, it's getting too much'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Long-term collector publicly announcing plan to reduce collection 40-45% due to affordability concerns; signaling potential broader trend

    high · Host announces: 'I'm going to go ahead and sell off a few machines...I have 18 right now...I'm going to go down probably somewhere around 10 or 12...I'm getting priced out of the hobby'

  • ?

    community_signal: Host receiving significant community feedback on pronunciation 'Ballygate' Easter egg; deliberate trolling strategy backfired into broader audience engagement

    high · Host states: 'I have gotten so many emails about this...I know some people have, I will purposely troll friends on purpose on this podcast...What I didn't realize is the reaction it was going to get afterwards...I did not intend on the troll extending past one person to over a couple of dozen people'

  • ?

    community_signal: Led Zeppelin achieving rare cross-demographic appeal with casual family players; Pro tier engaging enough to beat highly-regarded LE alternatives

    high · Host states: 'My wife loves playing it...the whole family loves playing it...Led Zeppelin Pro won out against Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles LE...when you get the right theme, you have shots that are accessible...that leads to good experiences'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.058

0:00
All right, welcome back guys to another episode of A Pinball Podcast. Thank you guys so much for being here today. And man, we got a lot of stuff going on. It is Friday currently, and there's a lot of different news going on right now, but especially the main news happening right now is Jersey Jack. So we're going to talk a little bit about that, not go too in-depth about it, but just general thoughts. And then I'll give general thoughts on a couple other things as well before we go into the weekend. Now, in case you guys are watching this on YouTube, you'll notice some things are a little bit different right now. It's because I actually have a new ring light around this camera right here instead of a light over here. So I'm trying out different stuff. I don't even know if I even got the lighting correct. I probably don't, but that's neither here nor there. I'm also trying out a new frames per second. I've taken the camera down from 60 frames per second. I've taken it down to 30 frames per second. So hopefully that looks a little bit better on YouTube. I don't know. I just kind of, when I'm in 60 frames per second, I feel like I kind of look weird, but I kind of look weird anyways, anytime I look at myself and other people have told me I look weird too. So, you know, it's a lose-lose situation at this point. Anyhow, let's go ahead and push forward. So Jersey Jack, in the news, right after they ended up winning Game of the Year or Best in Show at the Pinball Industry Awards for Guns N' Roses, which was rightfully earned, it then came out, I believe it's been about 36 hours as of this podcast, somewhere right around there, that they were going up by $1,000. on their LE and on their standard edition for GNR. So now the LE costs $10,500 and the SE is $7750 currently, $7,750.
1:40
But still on their website, so I'm still trying to figure this out. I probably need to ask around a little bit more, but you guys might know this. It says on their website that the Guns N' Roses standard edition is sold out. So I'm taking that to mean that they are not planning on making any more anytime soon, that they're just completely focused on the limited edition, which makes complete sense. Now let's get on with why they possibly raise these prices and what it means for pinball and kind of the reaction that everybody's having.

high confidence · Host states directly: 'And out of Walking Ted and Ninja Turtles, Led Zeppelin has won. Led Zeppelin Pro won out against Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles LE.'

  • “I did have fun with it, and my wife did get a chance to play it a few weeks ago, and she really did enjoy the game...So I really wanted to bring it into a home environment and put it through its paces...But now that I see where this price is at, it's tough.”

    Host @ early-mid podcast — Shows how pricing changes can reverse purchase intent even for interested collectors

  • “I'm not going to label this a greedy move. I'm not going to label the business greedy because the fact is there's a lot of people that work there. There's a lot of overhead that goes into creating pinball machines”

    Host @ early podcast — Host attempts balanced perspective on manufacturer pricing rationale despite personal frustration

    • Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
    game
    Iron Maidengame
    Walking Deadgame

    competitive_signal: Jersey Jack positioning Guns N' Roses as premium-only product; SE production halted; LE becoming sole focus with price appreciation strategy

    medium · Host observes: 'Guns N' Roses standard edition is sold out...they are not planning on making any more anytime soon, that they're just completely focused on the limited edition, which makes complete sense'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Guns N' Roses licensed to Jersey Jack; Avengers (Marvel) licensed to Stern; Led Zeppelin (classic rock) licensed to Stern

    high · Host discusses theme integration on all three games, confirming IP licensing for premium machines

  • $

    market_signal: Vintage EM pricing has inflated 3-4x over 2-3 years; project EMs rose from $100-$350 to $800-$1,500

    medium · Host provides specific historical comparisons: 'three years ago...we bought a project EM for $100...now I'm seeing them go up close to $1,000'

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack raised Guns N' Roses mid-run pricing ($1k increase) to equilibrate demand/supply; host speculates upcoming title may be driving urgency

    high · Host directly observes: 'typically when we see a high-end demand product...where the demand basically eclipses the supply, you will see prices change to try to get an equilibrium...this doesn't really surprise me, but it does kind of surprise me that this would happen mid-run'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Host's Avengers review is in post-production with new B-roll and cut scenes; review coming next week

    high · Host states: 'I do have the review. It is coming. I promise you guys...I'm doing cut scenes...I'm trying to do all this...it's tough to do, but I think it's well worth the time...which will be coming next week'

  • ?

    product_concern: Avengers code quality highly regarded; two new wizard modes added post-release indicate strong ongoing support

    high · Host praises: 'the rule set is outstanding...and it's probably going to win a Twippy...L1 goes and out does himself by adding two more wizard modes...they just fantastic'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Led Zeppelin perception reversing positively on LE/Premium tier after lukewarm Pro reception; host estimates 90% positive feedback from players

    medium · Host states: 'the overall opinion of the industry of this pen is going to dramatically change for the positive once they play the LE and the premium...everybody I talk to is probably 90% positive'

    • 2:11
    So naturally, nobody is really too happy about this, and it's understandable. I can see this from both ways, and I'm going to speak from looking at it from both ways. I'm going to put my pinball fan hat on, and I'm also going to put my business hat on. From a business perspective, and again, I'm saying this just speculating. I don't know. I don't know what their business model truly is. I don't know what's going on behind closed doors. I don't talk to anybody over there to that extent, and rightfully so. It's their business. It's their way of running things. But typically when we see a high-end demand product that needs to move a lot of units but is kind of bogged down to where the demand basically eclipses the supply, you will see prices change to try to get an equilibrium of those two things together. So this doesn't really surprise me, but it does kind of surprise me that this would happen mid-run. My instinct tells me that one of the reasons why they're doing this is, of course, to get that back into equilibrium, but at the same time, And that means that there could possibly be another game that is coming sooner rather than later, that they realize they cannot get way behind on this, that they need to take advantage of the marketplace right now. Also, I have said on previous episodes that I really did feel like that they did leave money on the table with a lot of these machines, especially with the collector's edition. I think that machine clearly would have sold out for $15,000. I think it still would have sold out day one. So because of those factors, it doesn't really surprise me that they're doing this. I know there's a lot of people out there that are speculating, well, they're raising the price because they need to make more money. Well, you know, who knows? But, of course, every business needs to make money. I know, obviously, the term that comes to mind is greed. I personally am not going to label this a greedy move. I'm not going to label the business greedy because the fact is there's a lot of people that work there. There's a lot of overhead that goes into creating pinball machines, into sending these out into the world. So I'm not going to hold any company that decides to price their product at a certain price. I'm not going to label it greedy because, simply put, the consumer can decide what their utility is for that particular product. It's up to us to decide whether or not we're willing to pay for it or not willing to pay for it. Now, obviously, this is going to change what some people do. And if you an owner of an LE right now you probably extremely happy because essentially your machine just appreciated overnight by which is crazy Now if you sold the LE and you sold it at or and I have seen some of those out, you're probably kicking yourself right now. So that is unfortunate right there. But this just is the time that we live in. I want to see where they go with this. Is this going to be their standard price moving forward is what I'm curious of. Now, me from a consumer standpoint, I can honestly say, that my wife and me were going back and forth about getting a Guns N' Roses LE, even though my first impression of it after I played it wasn't exactly just over the moon for it. I did still have fun with it, and my wife did get a chance to play it a few weeks ago, and she really did enjoy it, and I do feel like my kids would really enjoy the game. So I really wanted to bring it into a home environment and put it through its paces and see what this game is truly all about, because I do have friends that I trust their opinions on, and they're telling me, hey, look at it from this perspective, hey, look at it from that perspective, and they're making a lot of sense to me, so I'm willing to give it a chance. But now that I see where this price is at, it's tough. And I'm saying this as somebody that has bought Stern LEs in the past. If you look behind me, you'll see three of them. You'll see Ninja Turtles, Iron Maiden, and Avengers.
    6:03
    Now, buying those games, truthfully, those had to be very specific titles, and I was already at the top of my buying power. I was not going to go any further. And now I'm stuck here looking at this from what Jersey Jack has done with Guns N' Roses and I'm realizing after talking it over with my wife that we are legitimately priced out of this company. Unfortunately, I don't think that there's any way possible I will ever be able to own one of these machines right now. I just don't see it happen. I know I'll never be able to buy a new in box game from them. And it's not necessarily because it's not affordable. It's just, I cannot bring myself to pay $10,500 to $11,000 for a mid tier model. And seeing that I might possibly have to go for over $8,000 for the lowest tier model. That is just, it's a hard pill to swallow. And even paying pros on sterns, you know, when you get into the 5,500, $6,000 range, 5,000 or whatever it could be. That is even a tough pill to swallow. I mean, at the end of the day, money is money. If you do have it and you've worked your butt off for it and you've saved it up and you're budgeting, that's one thing. But man, when I look at these machines from Jersey Jack and they are beautiful machines, don't get me wrong. I'm not going to say that they're not worth that. All I'm going to say is, is I have a very hard time justifying opening up my wallet and spending that much money on a particular product in which that is legitimately half of what it would cost for me just to build a shop building to house 20 or 25 of those machines.
    7:47
    And so these prices for me, for me, it's getting too much. And this is a somebody that's a collector and it's really led me to kind of take a step back and kind of decide where do I want to go as a pinball collector? What games do I want to have? What am I willing to spend money on? And I think ultimately I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably going to start selling off some pins, not because we particularly need the money. I would like to put the money elsewhere. Of course, I think we're, we need to get a new vehicle. That would be nice just because I drive legitimately a 2002 Chevy Silverado that is beat to all hell. The paint stripping off. It looks like my front has a mustache because my wife jacked up the wax. Thank you for that, sweetie. I really do appreciate that. But yeah, it's so, it just gets to where I think I'm just rounding this out. I think I am personally, I'm getting priced out of the hobby. And I think I'm going to start focusing more on either older machines, which those prices for those are going up. I'm seeing EMs that are priced anywhere between $800 to $1,500. I'm seeing project EMs priced at $1,200. It wasn't even just two years ago, guys. I could find a project EM for $300, $350. It was probably three years ago, two and a half years ago, we bought a project EM for $100. That's how much it was. And now I'm seeing them go up close to $1,000. These prices here just raising so much. I'm wondering where this is going to end and where the hobby is going to be at in general a year from now. Now, in terms of what all I plan on doing, I think I'm going to go ahead and sell off a few machines. I think I going to go down I have 18 right now I believe maybe 19 depending on the projects that we have in our garage right now But I believe I going to go down probably somewhere around 10 or 12 to where a lot of those are moderns that are leaving the game room I think that's where I have to go at personally. So we'll see. Seeing these prices, I'm curious to know what you guys think. Are you guys going to keep going all out for these games? Is this something that really affects you? I know people that are ultra rich. is obviously not going to too much, but at the same time, it's just I personally am starting to feel the squeeze. Looking at those prices, it makes me sweat. It makes me sweat. And I don't know if I want to put that much money into something at this point. And possibly, maybe in the future, if I happen to just have a couple of machines and I have enough saved back to where I can justify it. But that's where I'm at right now. Obviously, it's I think that the overall collection is going to come to a screeching Holt in terms of growth and I need to really focus on the machines that I want to play for a couple of months at a time and just keep rotating them out. I think that's where I'm at with things right now. All right. So moving forward, we got some other things to discuss. There's something funny that I feel like I need to go ahead and address because I've gotten so many emails about this and it is, it's freaking hilarious. So I'm going to call this Ballygate. All right. We're going to call it Ballygate. Let me get a drink real quick before I go on to this. And what Ballygate is, guys, is in case nobody's picked up on this, I know some people have, I will purposely troll friends on purpose on this podcast. I know, listen to it. And while I'm not going to reveal exactly who it is, I have an extreme inside joke to where we will say Bally, Bally, We'll pronounce it that way. And the funny part is, is a few episodes back, I can't remember which video it was. I actually did go ahead and drop that little Easter egg in. And what I didn't know was because I've done it before and nobody reacted to it. But what I didn't realize is the reaction it was going to get afterwards. Oh my God. You guys apparently really, really want it to be pronounced the correct way. So I did not intend on the troll extending past one person to over a couple of dozen people. It's kind of funny in a way that I've been able to do that. I don't know. It's just it cracks me up. But I'm here to tell you guys I am well aware of how it's pronounced. So you guys can stop the emails. It's okay because I don't want to keep answering. Like I know, I know, I know. I've even had some content creators email me or text me about it. And I'm like, guys, I know I don't play a bunch of tournaments and play in all these things and not realize what the name is. So you guys can rest easy. It's okay. Pitch works down. I'm aware. And the funny part is, if you're watching this, or for the people that don't watch this, I'm just going to keep pronouncing it that way. So it's probably going to keep happening, but I still got to drop that Easter egg in. It just cracks me up. So for the record, and we'll put this to bed, I am aware of how to pronounce it. Don't worry. I'm fine. You don't have to come check up on me. You don't have to fact check. You don't have to send emails or messages letting me know that I'm an idiot. It's okay. I already know I'm an idiot. I got four kids. They tell me that every day.
    13:01
    All right. So moving forward, new Avengers code. I'll tell you what. I have not got to play the newest one, which just dropped yesterday, but I played the one that dropped a few days ago, like I think January 28th, 29th, and they added in, and this is crazy because this is a game in which it won an industry award, and it's probably going to win a Twippy too for best overall rule set, assuming that there is a Twippy for that. I don't even know, but the rule set is outstanding, and not only is it award winning, then L1 goes and out does himself by adding two more wizard modes in that game the journey to play that game it's fantastic it's excellent and there's a lot of reasons for that one obviously the code is great but two i love the theme like avengers comics is a dream theme for me because i've been a collector ever since i was a kid it's one of my other passions that i have outside of pinball is just reading comics talking about comics with different friends that are outside of pinball. I've gotten some of my pinball buddies into comics and we talk about it a lot. So seeing all that stuff, I'm just a huge Marvel fan. And seeing this game, who it's by, and how the code is, it's just a dream come true for me. I have so much fun on that game. But now seeing that there's two more wizard modes added with the Thanos modes being added in they just fantastic And I did manage to play through the entire game and i did post on one of the facebook groups about the the ending of it and what happens and all that but i don't want to spoil it here i won't spoil it on the podcast but i highly recommend you guys if you guys have an avengers try it out try to get there the best you can it's well worth it and i got to say the light show has been upgraded it's nuts i said a few podcasts ago that i thought led zeppelin had a great light show to it that i was very surprised by that and even them being number two that's not bad at all but man avengers i don't know i mean it's just even even just the way everything just goes together there's just something about that pen to where it makes a lot a sense. A lot of the decisions that they are making, it makes sense to me from a code standpoint, from a lighting standpoint, and just how everything comes together. So I'm excited to see this game continue to get fleshed out. I think it might just have a couple of updates in the future that's more polished stuff, but that's on down the line. As the game is right now, it is absolutely fantastic. All right, moving forward, Led Zeppelin owners, there's been a lot of LEs that have gone out there and a few premiums, and I can say, before, when I had the Pro, or I still do have the Pro, and I've been playing a lot, one of the things I've been telling people is, do not sleep on this pen. I think that the overall viewpoint and the overall opinion of the industry of this pen is going to dramatically change for the positive once they play the LE and the premium, and I can confirm that legitimately, everybody I talk to is probably 90% positive. A lot of people are really enjoying this game, And I know everybody wants to compare it to Guns N' Roses. That's fine. Do the comparisons you want to do. But if I'm just looking at this pen on its own, especially seeing how the LE and the Premium are playing on video, I'm very excited to flip that pen. And I will get my chance here in just about a week and a half or so. And I just think that the decisions that were made for stripping out some of the things in Pro, it did hurt the game a little bit. But I think this pen is going to have a massive comeback because of the Premium and because of the LE. And I'm very excited to see how that goes. I'm excited to see where the code goes. The code is in a really good spot. Now there are some things that I imagine are going to be kind of updated a little bit and kind of refined a little bit. And the more and more this goes, I think the more and more this pen will just become fun. I'm finding myself playing it a lot and I do have the review. It is coming. I promise you guys, I got a whole new setup to where we're actually doing a B roll with it. We're doing a roll with it. I'm doing cut scenes. I'm trying to do all this. It's tough to do, but I think it's well worth the time, and I hope it comes off well, but I really am excited about the pen. It's just, to me, Led Zeppelin has been one of the most pleasant surprises I've had playing it, and I do have some drawbacks still about it, but what pen do I not have drawbacks? I mean, you could always find something that is up with a pen, but the positives of Led Zeppelin far outweigh the negatives. And I find myself just, whenever I play it, I get lost in the game. I honestly get lost in the game. And before I know it, I've been playing for over an hour. And there's times when I'm playing pinball, I do get lost in the game, but then I snap out of it easily and I realize, hey, I got to do other stuff. With Led Zeppelin, I lose track of time. I legitimately lose track of time. And my kids are loving it. My wife loves playing it. I mean, the whole family loves playing it. And I asked them straight up, what pin back there do you guys want to keep? If you guys had one to pick out of any of them outside of Avengers and Iron Maiden, because obviously those are staying, and out of Walking Ted and Ninja Turtles, Led Zeppelin has won. It has won. Led Zeppelin Pro won out against Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles LE. I mean, that's how much fun my family's having it. Now, of course, they're casual pinball players. Keep that in mind. They are very casual players, but that kind of shows you when you get the right theme, you have shots that are accessible. You have rules that make sense in a way that you can pick it up fairly quickly. It's not overwhelming. That leads to good experiences. And overall, I have a lot of good to say about that pen. I can't wait to finally get my review officially out there for you guys, which will be coming next week as I'm working on editing that this weekend and we'll get that out. but that's about all I got for now guys anything I talked about today let me know in the comments what you guys think please leave a like down below if you haven't already that's all I got you guys have a great weekend I appreciate you guys watching and I'll see you guys later later guys