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Embracing The Charitable Mindset with the Project Pinball Charity Founder Daniel Spolar

Meditations with Ryan Zlomekone-offPromote to tracked·podcast_episode·analyzed·Feb 14, 2024
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TL;DR

Daniel Spoler on founding Project Pinball Charity to provide therapeutic pinball machines in children's hospitals.

Summary

Ryan Zlomek interviews Daniel Spoler, founder of Project Pinball Charity, a nonprofit that donates and maintains pinball machines in children's hospitals and Ronald McDonald houses across 27 states. Spoler discusses his background in construction, leadership philosophy emphasizing worker care and transparency, his personal connection to pinball through childhood nostalgia, and how his son's leukemia diagnosis inspired him to combine his engineering skills with pinball restoration to provide therapeutic escape for hospitalized children and their families.

Key Claims

  • Project Pinball has placed pinball machines in 65 children's hospitals across 27 states with 70 machines installed

    high confidence · Ryan Zlomek summarizing Project Pinball's scope during the podcast conversation

  • Project Pinball operates with over 100 volunteers coordinating maintenance and fundraising

    high confidence · Ryan Zlomek describing Project Pinball's organizational structure

  • Project Pinball was founded in 2011

    high confidence · Ryan Zlomek stating founding date; Daniel Spoler confirms November 2011 as initial hospital contact

  • Daniel Spoler's son was diagnosed with leukemia at age 14, which motivated the charity's founding

    high confidence · Daniel Spoler directly stating: 'my son was diagnosed with leukemia when he was 14 years old'

  • The first machine that catalyzed Project Pinball was a 2007 Stern Spider-Man pinball machine that had been broken at a children's hospital for approximately 2.5 years

    high confidence · Daniel Spoler describing the discovery: 'a 2007 Spider-Man made by Stern' in November 2011 that had been 'on site for about two and a half years'

  • Spoler was a general contractor and partner in a metal framing and drywall company before founding Project Pinball

    high confidence · Daniel Spoler recounting his career progression from drywall installer to general contractor to company partner

  • Spoler stepped away from pinball for approximately 18 years while raising his family, returning when his children left for college/military service

    high confidence · Daniel Spoler: 'I stepped away for from that for probably about 18 years'

  • Spoler's first personal pinball machine was a Bally/Williams 'Feather of Magic' which broke down within six months

    high confidence · Daniel Spoler stating: 'My first machine was Feather of Magic by Bally Williams. And it quickly broke down within six months of me owning it'

Notable Quotes

  • “There's a lot of good people out there that are struggling that just need a hand, you know, the belief that they could do it and someone maybe to give them a helping hand.”

    Daniel Spoler @ not specified — Articulates Spoler's core philosophy about leadership and community support that extends from his construction business to Project Pinball

  • “If you treat them that way, if you give them a task for them to rise to, they will... you need to make sure that they understand that they're going to get paid for what they're worth and on time because they're there to take care of their family.”

    Daniel Spoler @ not specified — Demonstrates Spoler's worker-centric philosophy developed through construction industry experience

  • “When I would play pinball and I would work on pinball, I felt that my stress of the day would just melt away. It was singular focus.”

    Daniel Spoler @ not specified — Personal testimony explaining the therapeutic value that inspired Project Pinball's mission

  • “Child life specialists... have that job description. So they started sharing with us how beneficial and therapeutic a pinball machine could be in a hospital setting for a child and their whole family.”

    Daniel Spoler @ not specified — Describes the professional validation from hospital staff that informed Project Pinball's approach

  • “I remember vividly playing Firepower, which was a Williams game, and Blackouts... I wanted something more random and something that was more physical that I could control like a pinball machine.”

    Daniel Spoler @ not specified — Personal childhood experience with specific pinball machines that motivated his lifelong interest in the medium

  • “As soon as I'd get up there, just like check in. Yeah, cool. Draw my blood. I would ignore all of the stuff, all of the pain, all of the crap that was happening because I knew that I was going to go and play this game.”

    Ryan Zlomek @ not specified — Host's personal leukemia experience with arcade games validates the therapeutic premise of Project Pinball

Entities

Daniel SpolerpersonRyan ZlomekpersonProject PinballorganizationFirepowergameBlackoutsgameMedieval MadnessgameFeather of MagicgameSpider-Mangame

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Project Pinball operates as a community-driven charity with 100+ volunteers maintaining machines and conducting fundraising across 27 states; represents growing intersection of pinball hobby culture and social impact initiatives

    high · Ryan Zlomek cites: '65 children's hospitals with 70 machines' and 'over 100 volunteers' coordinating maintenance and fundraising

  • ?

    product_concern: The foundational Spider-Man machine that sparked Project Pinball had been non-functional for 2.5 years at a children's hospital, indicating maintenance gaps in institutional settings and the need for ongoing support infrastructure

    high · Daniel Spoler: hospital 'were trying to find someone to fix this machine for over nine months' before he was contacted; machine had been 'on site for about two and a half years'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Spoler's 18-year absence from pinball (approximately 1993-2011) showed significant advances in machine complexity and engineering; Medieval Madness represented a leap in mechanical sophistication from EM-era games

    medium · Daniel Spoler: 'in my absence pinball has morphed and changed into these highly mechanical games a lot of great engineering in it'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Project Pinball's choice of pinball machines reflects intentional design philosophy: machines provide 'singular focus' and stress relief through physical interactivity, validated by hospital child life specialists as therapeutic tools

    high · Daniel Spoler: 'I felt that my stress of the day would just melt away. It was singular focus' and testimony from 'child life specialists' on therapeutic benefits

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.260

0:00
Meditations with Ryan Slomac. Happy February 14th everybody and welcome to episode 15 of Meditations with Ryan Slomac. If this is your first time listening to the show, I just want to welcome you with open arms. Happy Valentine's Day! This is a show all about making space for conversation so that we can learn from the people around us, see what stories are just floating in the air and ensure that we are gravitating toward interesting humans. If you're a returner to the show, I just want to say thank you so much for your support. Happy Valentine's Day! I appreciate you. I would just throw chocolates your way if there was some way for me to do that through your smartphone or computer or car ride or whatever you're listening to this in. But sadly we'll have to wait for some sort of giveaway in the future. This episode features Daniel Spoler who is the founder of the Project Pinball Charity. As I was thinking about the fact that this episode would be launching on Valentine's Day and just considering what we tend to focus on on Valentine's Day, which is, you know, oh my god, I need to demonstrate that I care about the people in my life by buying them trinkets and toys and candy, when really it should be a time for us to just take a step I'm going to take a quick step back and say, you know what, like, how am I helping the world around me? And I think Daniel Spoler is somebody who has that constant reflection and is just great to learn from. If you're unfamiliar with Project Pinball, it's a charity that puts pinball machines in children's hospitals and Ronald McDonald houses and any other place where there's a demographic of people who are in need of an escape from some sort of trauma that they're going through. All may not be helmet and resilient, but standard to all species of not available to be 카 cemented inrio, 8lt, explore ancestors hammockψ् rasa, f большrixx äčičč ápsåbš Wür highlights And tell me how the weather is treating you down there. First off, I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for having me on. I was looking forward to this. I was listening to your podcast that you recorded prior in such a great job. So I, you know, offer everybody to go out there and give a listen to your catalog. You did a great job. So thank you for having me. And I was laughing because normally Florida is known for our sunshine, but it's been overcast the last three days. We had a rainy Christmas, you know, just recently, and I was just waiting for the temperature to fall to see if we would have a white Christmas, but it never happened. But we are fortunate with the weather down here. Mark Frederick buoy suits paps. The Larry Krause. Thank you for the kind words about the show. Funny enough, Pittsburgh has popped up as a theme on this show. So there's been multiple episodes with guests from there. My buddy Dave Forman is a he's another pinball person. He's also a food host of a TV show in Pittsburgh. He was on and then there's another my meta episode podcast about podcasting. We had another Pittsburgher on. So apparently that's the theme of the show. Maybe Florida will be our next major location. Pittsburgh was a great place to grow up. I was born and raised there and I just love the city. It had so much deep culture in it that was, you know, decades old that built into these communities and I just loved them. Moving to Florida at an early age is quite a culture shock almost. Yes, you did have the beaches that you could go to and the sunshine and water sports, I really did miss the nuances, the culture that Pittsburgh offered. And plus, you know, sports, you know, the Steelers and, you know, the Pirates and the Penguins. The Penguins, you can't forget hockey. I was going to say, are you still a diehard Pittsburgh sports fan? I am when it comes to I should name it or call it proper Steelers you don't call them Steelers it's the the Pittsburgh Steelers that's how you know Pittsburghese would say but I do I love the Steelers even if they're having offseason you got a root for the black and gold just like the Penguins we're I'm so fortunate down in my area that the Penguins come to visit Tampa Bay, which is a relatively close drive, and then over in Miami as well. So I have a chance to see them twice a year if I have the opportunity to do so. So I love that. Well, that's awesome. So you are, I also, I just, since we're talking about kindness and care and charity, I mean, Pittsburgh is also the home of Mr. Rogers. I feel like there's something to be said about just growing up in a place where like it's creating that type of media and then just sort of being surrounded by that is probably pretty impactful. Well, Mr. Rogers, what can you say? Such a great influence. And I did not know until I was many years older. You know, I did not know that he was from the Pittsburgh area, from, you know, again, that culture. I just thought everybody across the United States, in the world, perhaps, at that time when I was young, had Mr. Rogers in their lives. And not only did I have it in my life growing up, but my kids had it in their lives as well. It was still relevant and, you know, still fresh. And even though some of the episodes I, you know, I think were pre-recorded, it still had a nice, you know, current theme to it still. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, And, you know, Stranger's Kindness. I mean, it's just amazing. Absolutely. And this will air at the time of this airing Christmas will have been several months ago, but I just got a Mr. Rogers book for Christmas. So this is all coming full circle, which is really nice. Yeah, I Am Mr. Rogers, if anybody's interested, by Brad Meltzer and Chris Eliopoulos. Really cool book about just his upbringing, and it's geared towards kids to learn about how they can change the world, which is neat. Daniel, I want to, you know, before we jump into Project Pinball, I want to know a little bit just about your sort of background. I know that you had an entire career in general contracting before you switched to the, you know, the charity work that you're doing. What sort of drew you to that industry? Well, for one, you know, we grew up in a modest family and I always learned the value of the dollar early. I started off with one paper route when I was 10 years old and if people are relatively young and they do not know what a paper route is, they would drop off a bundle of newspapers at my doorstep and I would assemble them and take them to the different addresses throughout my neighborhood. You know, I started off with 50 customers and I took over another paper route and added another, I believe, 75 customers and added a third one. So at one point I had over 150 customers, which, you know, for a child of 10, I was making 75 to $100 a week just with that off of, you know, what I would make in tips. I learned quite early that to get ahead you had to really work for it. So my friends in school always talked about doing construction in the evenings and on the weekends. So a good friend of mine asked me to join him and his brothers to work on some drywall related stuff. It was sanding homes. The finishers would go in there and I had the dirty job of going in there and sanding all the joints and making sure everything was smooth and pristine. From there it grew into actually installing, well, first loading and stocking drywall, which was a very physical, very demanding job. We didn't have a boom truck like they have now. It was a flatbed truck and you would have to unload every single piece, which meant that you had to take 200 trips just to stock a home, on average, 200 pieces. So it taught me, for one, endurance, you know, because you needed to have endurance to do that kind of work. And then I started installing. So again, there's a lot of physical lifting and I enjoyed it. I really did. So years later, when I moved to Florida, I found out that there was a lot of contractors that were out of state. So you would get hired just for that, you know, that job or that site, and then they would quickly vanish. I was promised all kinds of things that they would take care of me and you know they wouldn't have a job for me and just to find out that it wasn't true so it really sparked me becoming a working foreman so I can take care of my family and workers around me because I you know at that point I just didn't like how things were progressing I would stand I stand up for myself and other people, you know, other friends and workers around me and have a voice in how we were being treated. And we actually formed a unit that if we weren't being treated well, we would walk off the job site and just say, okay, we're all done. And you're talking, you know, at one time it was around 15 to 17 people walking off the job. So they really started taking us serious saying, okay, in listening to the small, you know, things that could be done better, pay wise or just treatment in general. So from there it allowed me to realize that you know I could help other people around me I could elevate the community by speaking up and you know with similar needs you know we all wanted to take care of our families and then when the time arose I became a superintendent I became a general superintendent I became a I was a partner for an established company that was metal framing and drywall company. So that led into me allowing to, you know, take care of more and more people. The people, the workers, the employees were my friends and family. So by rising higher and higher, I could help people elevate underneath me. So it just made sense. You know, with the partnership, it got strained. There was differences in direction. So I wanted to stay more in the custom side of things. The partners wanted them to grow it really quickly and started taking on a lot more work than I felt comfortable with that we could control. So I had my, you know, departure from that, retired for probably about a month. And I had everybody concerned that I was retiring for good, but I just needed to reset and focus. And I got my general contractor's license so I could work as a contractor in the state of Florida, Texas, and Carolinas. And, you know, again, it allowed me to do what we wanted. We focused on on pretty much value build where we would work with the clients and qualified them instead of doing you know a lot of bidding for just any kind of contract out there we would be very selective on what we wanted to do and we were fortunate for that once people found out you know how we worked as a company they really enjoyed having the The quality that they received, they would come back year after year with projects. So we had a really nice company.
Williams
company
Stern Pinballcompany
Ballycompany
Pittsburghlocation
Floridalocation
Mr. Rogersperson
Jamesperson

venue_signal: Significant growth in pinball machine placement in children's hospitals and Ronald McDonald houses as therapeutic amenities; represents emerging venue category for pinball beyond traditional arcade/bar locations

high · Project Pinball operates in '27 states' with '70 machines' in '65 children's hospitals' plus Ronald McDonald houses and similar facilities

  • ?

    personality_signal: Daniel Spoler's construction industry expertise in project management, worker relations, and systems building directly informed his ability to scale Project Pinball's operations across multiple states with volunteer coordination

    high · Spoler's progression from drywall work to general contractor to company partner; explicit connection between leadership philosophy and charity operations

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Narrative arc shows shift from pinball as marginalized recreational activity in Spoler's youth to recognized therapeutic tool validated by medical professionals, suggesting broader community acceptance of pinball's social and mental health value

    medium · Spoler's childhood experience contrasted with modern hospital professionals explicitly recognizing pinball's therapeutic benefits

  • ?

    business_signal: Project Pinball operates as volunteer-driven nonprofit requiring donations of machines and fundraising to sustain operations; represents sustainability challenge for niche charitable initiatives dependent on specific product donations

    medium · Ryan Zlomek notes project relies on 'volunteers' for 'maintenance' and 'fundraising' coordination across distributed geography

    • 14:55
    I still talk to the guys, even though, you know, I sold the company off many years ago. It was a home. It was a home for all of us. And, you know, just to make it clear, I was a paid employee, just like Mark We have profit sharing. So again, it was my way of trying to elevate people out there. There's a lot of good people out there that are struggling that just need a, you know, a hand, you know, the belief that they could do it and someone maybe to, you know, give Give them a helping hand. Give them that belief and show them a direction that could help. So yeah, I enjoyed it. Being a general contractor was fulfilling and I just love creating things. I love building things. So one thing I'm curious about just in that space is like I'm really I find that that so that theme of it's not only a leadership component, but just that idea that like, there has to be structures in place to demonstrate to the people that you're leading that you care about them, and that you're making decisions that everybody can see, that's transparent, that everybody has access to. And I'm just curious, like, when you eventually took over your own company And you were sort of, you know, leading the troops and getting things going and having these profit sharing models. Was that all internally developed? Was that things where you had other sort of sounding boards to go to? Like, how did you pick up those ideas that you wanted to integrate into your business?
    16:45
    Oh, that's a really deep question there because I didn't have mentors along the way. I was fortunate enough to have, you know, people that did their jobs well. And I had the fortune to have people that didn't do their jobs well.
    17:07
    And I say that in light because there's a lot of people that you can learn what not to do. And that's as important as learning, you know, what you need to do. In theonsupply broadcaster, IMAников Male Leadin, RPG academy, RTC iawn, Skulki's Production Recruitment, Here's what felt comfortable. I needed it to feel comfortable. I didn't want to be in a place that was something foreign to my beliefs. I never in my life ever worked for contracted money. It was important to, obviously, as a businessman, you're looking at, can the company make money like it should? And that's, you know, a different thing. But at the same point, I never said this worth is of, you know, money.
    18:28
    It was more of, you know, what can we succeed with this? Can we learn as a company? We would always take on new challenges and were new to us.
    18:43
    You know, we were never afraid of that. We would always rise to it because we knew that it would better ourselves, a learning experience. So, you know, I wish I had a mentor. I think the road would have been a lot easier.
    19:01
    I did have sounding boards, people in the industry, like I said, I respected and would learn. I had a gentleman, his name was James, and you know, I'm not sure what his job description was, honestly. He was like the go-to guy if you needed help with something special. You would go to him and he would be the troubleshooter. And he was such a guru on so many things. He knew about the fire marshal regulations, the fire code, and he would know these books. There was three orange books that I would carry around just for reference, and he would know these books inside and out, so much that the farm marshals would, you know, ask him questions. When they showed up on site, they would ask him for his input. And, you know, I'm saying this because he was, you know, a very big part of my life. I would have him helping me, you know, on buildings at that time, maybe doing the layout. I would have to lay out a five story building and he would come in and say, you don't need me here. And I would just say, yeah, but, you know, I love having you here and I always learn something. And, you know, so, yeah, I would have to say, you know, I did have a mentor. You know, it was for a short period of time, but he never when I left that company, he we would talk often, you know, several times a month, just call each other. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, I don't want to say it as darkly as this, but, you know, it was a dark time for Florida construction. There was a lot of misgivings. There a lot of people coming into Florida that were not licensed and they would take deposits and just quickly leave as well So there was a lot of It was like the Badlands down here and working for people like that you had to really make sure that you got paid on Fridays as well
    21:50
    I remember many a times just sitting at the office of these buildings waiting to get paid before I would go back to work for the next week. Um, because you never knew if you were going to be able to receive a paycheck for the work you already did. And it was, it was, you know, more of that teaching me, um, that again, if people are coming to work, you want to make sure that you treat them with respect because these guys are artisans. If you treat them that way, if you give them, you know, a task for them to rise to, they will. But, you know, to the other side of that coin, so to speak, you need to make sure that they understand that they're going to get paid for what they're worth and on time because they're there to take care of their family. And the last thing that I wanted them to be worried about is, you know, how much they're getting paid for the job at hand. I wanted them to focus on the creativity, you know, bringing that artisan to the highest level and doing the best that they could. So if you could take out them thinking about, you know, if they're going to get paid on Friday or not, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Ballywin, Straight Down the Middle, Ballywin, I can't tell you how much joy it brought me to hear you say sometimes it's important to learn what not to do from people. I tell my students that all the time, like when, you know, we're always so focused on just as people, like, oh, this person's so good at that, they're so good at that, they're so good at that. We never or we then then we're focused on how we feel when we're treated improperly by somebody or something. We very rarely go through and look at somebody's, I don't know, poor, poor manner or attitude or the way in which they handle a job. And we think to ourselves, number one, my interaction with them is temporary. And two, if I can not be like that, if I can flip that around, if I can figure out how I can be the antithesis of this person's behavior, good things will happen. And I always I'm so glad to hear you just say that because I think that to me, I most of my successes have come from like being in a place, working a job or something and then saying, this is what's not working. If I was to do this on my own, here's what I do. And then when some opportunity of leadership presents itself, you're already prepared. You don't have to rebuild everything from the ground up because you're you know, you're ready for it. You've had those experiences, you've mentally processed. And then the other thing too is just I love your comment about making sure that you can be the one who's sort of preventing the secondary stresses from going to your artisans. Because I oftentimes see like the greatest way to ruin something good is to let everybody else share in the anxiety of what's not working. And if you could move past that, just like remarkable things will come. Well, for the one, the first thing that you said was, you know, about learning what to do and what not to do.
    25:19
    I think a lot of people are critical on, you know, what people could do better, but they don't take it to heart and say, I could do better. I don't know. I think it's part of self-reflection. You have to be the best person that you can. And, you know, I'm not getting up here and preaching that I'm perfect. Oh, God, no. You know, that's not even close. But I do try to learn from my failures and come back from them. You know, because I have failures in my life, just like everyone out there. You know, I don't believe that anybody has a perfect life out there, but a lot of times you don't hear people talk about their failures. So you know, I think we got to learn as we go and try to continue to get better and better. And, you know, I do have a family and I tried to be the best father that I could. And that might be a different subject that we want to touch upon. But, you know, I didn't really have a role model in my life. So I had to treat my kids as I wanted to be treated when I was younger. And I tried to be the best father that I could be. I'm a senior at the University of Mississippi, and I know that, you know, I succeeded as well as I failed at times. But I always try to get better. And now I have grandkids that, you know, I could see my role in their lives as well. You know, it's outside being a parent. I'm a parent. It's actually, you know, kind of a different role that, again, I wasn't sure, you know, how to take on and, you know, I just treat my grandkids how, you know, I see that they want to be treated. And, you know, I'm loving this growth. I love, I love to continue with that. Well, I want to come back to your family dynamic a little bit later, but I want to jump into Project Pinball because I think it's really interesting to take your leadership skills and your sort of knowledge of systems and then applying it to a charity. What grew your initial interest in pinball? What made you drawn to it? As I'm looking, I get the luxury of being able to see you, Daniel, and I can see all these beautiful pinball machines in your periphery. What got you into silver ball? What got you excited about it? It's funny that you see him here in my office because it's part of my belief which I'll get to. But back when I was an adolescent child, pinball was provenance. It was just located everywhere that you would look. You would look. It was in the 7-Elevens. It was in the Pizza Huts. It was in restaurants and in pubs and bowling alleys and on the boardwalk down in New Jersey. They were just everywhere. They had arcades that were humming with the sounds of, you know, Space Invaders and Pac-Man. And they had pinball machines there as well. So I knew the value of my quarter. I was really bad at the video games. I was not one that enjoys space invaders. I just didn't like it. You would have to start off on the level and achieve and, you know, I just didn't have the patience to, you know, really perfect that. So I wanted something more random and something that was more physical that I could control like a pinball machine. I remember vividly playing Firepower, which was a Williams game, and Blackouts. And I remember having more control. I was nudging the game, moving the game, and feeling that I had better value for my quarter. So with that, you know, instilled in me, you know, throughout my adolescence and teenage years, when I raised, started raising family in heaven, my son was born. I walked away from that. I wanted to focus everything on to my family and doing the best that I could because again I didn't have certain components in my life and I wanted to dedicate myself to my my family so I stepped away for from that for probably about 18 years. The last game just on it was at my son's birthday party it was at a bowling alley and they just happened to have a pinball machine there and it was actually medieval madness and I remember that because I'm like oh wow in my absence pinball has morphed and changed into these highly you know mechanical games a lot of great engineering in It wasn't until my kids were leaving, they just graduated, heading off to college and to the military service that I found myself lacking a, you know, hobby outside of, you know, my time dedicated to my family needs. So I quickly found, you know, some pinball machines that I'd never seen before. And my first machine was Feather of Magic by Bally Williams. And it quickly broke down within six months of me owning it. So that started my second phase of my pinball passion was not only playing pinball, but it started as restoring and fixing machines. And as an engineer, in an engineer's mind, it just was a super fascination for me. As soon as I lift the playfield, I've seen all the chaos of the, you know, the miles of wiring and all the, you know, electrical coils underneath there. It just was a super spark of fascination. So years later, the charity was founded on, you know, certain things. One is when I would play pinball and I would work on pinball, I felt that my stress of the day would just melt away. It was singular focus. I could, you know, not think about the problems of the world while I was playing pinball. So when there was this idea of a charity happening in a children's hospital or this offering for it to happen, I just used my reflection on how it made me feel. And then we started getting all this great testimony from key people like child life specialists. They're the ones that monitor the well-being of the patients.
    33:21
    You know, the emotional, physical, mental well-being of the patient and their family. So what better inputs could you have than a person that is, you know, they have that job description. So they started sharing with us, you know, how beneficial and therapeutic a pinball machine could be in a hospital setting for a child in their whole family. Not only the patients, but you're talking the siblings are going through this illness and the whole family unit is, and you're talking parents and grandparents. So, with that being of my past, I can combine all of that as well. Plus, my son was diagnosed with leukemia when he was 14 years old. And at that time, I was part of the partnership and I, you know, got a call in the middle of my day saying that You know, this is a lot more severe and it could be leukemia. I called up the partners and said, you know, I'm not sure when I'm coming back. I need to take care of this. And my whole life just came to a screeching halt. It was a singular focus on learning everything that I could on leukemia. I knew it was a form of cancer, but I didn't know much more than that. And it was before you could just Google search stuff. You had to really search for things out there. So with that, also, it gave me an understanding how, you know, illness of a son could, you You know, really affect your family dynamic and, you know, your priorities and focus. So it allows me to a small degree to, you know, kind of understand what parents are going through in a hospital setting. I might not know exactly what they're going through, but I have my experience where I could relate. And there were certain things that were lacking, you know, in a children's hospital. I'm not trying to be negative in the way, but it's a positive thing that I see growth in all those years to what I see now. And I think that's, that brings me great joy knowing that there's support for these families. There's these people out there that are helping the family go through this troubling time. And that's why the charity wants to be a part of that. We want to add our dynamics of what we see with the pinball machine to help with that benefit and the therapeutic values that it could bring for this family. Mark Yeah, let me, I just wanna, I wanna just drop a few, a few data points, cause I think it's important. So your, you know, your charity is, is Project Pinball and it focuses, it's, you guys have been around since 2011. And you help coordinate not just the implementation of Amusements equipment, in this case, pinball machines, into children's hospitals, Ronald McDonald houses, places where this type of, I'd almost call it like flow state therapy, the ability to have some sort of amusement that will take your mind off of things and allow you to, you know, some form of escapism. But you've managed to do this all over the country. Twenty seven states at this point have equipment that has been donated by Project Pinball. There's 65 children's hospitals with 70 machines that have been instated, which is amazing. And you've got, what, over 100 volunteers in total that you guys coordinate to be able to not only get in there and maintain machines, but also just help with fundraising and getting the word out and things like that. So I guess the reason I wanted to just leave that framework out there is because I think that, you know, when people hear like, oh, they put pinball machines in children's hospitals, it's a great, cool, like that's an interesting thing. I know that's a weird thing, but I just I want to speak personally for a moment that when I was when I was young, when I was in sixth grade, I was diagnosed with with leukemia as well.
    38:19
    I had ALO leukemia and it was going to be a two and a half year prognosis so that basically my entire middle school would be wiped out. You know, from sixth grade to eighth grade, I would just be the cancer kid. And at least that's what my brain told me when I was eleven. But I remember going to 5C at University Hospitals, it's now called, and that was the, you know, the children's sector for oncology. And they had a cockpit pole position arcade game. So if you're listening, you don't, we're talking about arcade games and pinball machines, you have no idea what I'm talking about. When I say a cockpit pole position, what it is, it's a racing game and you sit inside this, you know, like wooden, I don't know, little car. And you, you know, play a racing game. And I remember every time I would go up for treatment and I might be up there for three days. As soon as I'd get up there, I just like check in. Yeah, cool. Draw my blood. I would ignore all of the stuff, all of the pain, all of the crap that was happening because I knew that I was going to go and play this game. And it truly was this sort of like out of world escape for me. And you guys have managed to do this in a manner where it's affecting thousands of people on a daily occurrence where it's not just the, you know, the kids who are going through something. It's, you know, the doctors who need an escape. It's the nurses who need an escape. It's the parents who need an escape. And you're ensuring that these things are working. I do want to I want to bring it back, though. You talked about how this was founded. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, And it was founded because somebody had donated a pinball machine at a hospital and it was kind of a one and done step, but there was so much more to do for that. So can you tell us a little bit about this like magnificent Spider-Man machine that lit the entire organization up? In the very beginning, a friend of mine found a pinball machine that was located at a local I was in the Children's Hospital in the Oncology Board and she was taking a tour of the facility and seeing this pinball machine that was dark and wasn't being played in the family room. So she inquired about it and they were saying that they were trying to find someone to fix this machine for over nine months at that point. So she texted me at that point and said there's a broken machine in the Children's Hospital. Would you like to take a look at it? I'm like, yes, yes, have them reach out to me. So a couple of days later, we had someone reach out from the hospital saying that we heard you were the person to go to. So they told me that it was a, what was it, a 2007 Spider-Man made by Stern. And this was like three years after the fact. It was actually November of 2011. So the machine was on site for about two and a half years. So I go there with basic cleaning supplies as you would of a game of this, you know, it was relatively new. It was only a couple years old. So I took basic cleaning supplies and rubbers, you know, things that I thought they would need. So I show up there and the playfield is just pitch black with filth. There's like a graphite, like sludge dirt, you want to call it, that covers the playfield. And it was just, it was in horrible shape. Nathan Moore, I was starting a new game. So at that point, I realized, soon as I seen it, that I could not work on this machine in a sterile environment. I would be black as soon as I touched it. My hands would have this graphite grease on every part that touched the machine. So I had to convince them of allowing me to take it off site to my workshop so I could I needed to strip every single piece off the playfield and just rebuild everything. So we needed time and parts for it But the thing is as I rolling this thing out I have it on the cart I taking it down the elevator There was a family that seen me doing this And they stopped me and said, what's happening to our machine? And I was really taken back by their possession, you know, of this pinball machine. And that was the first eye-opening moment was how much they cared for this machine.
    43:42
    And the person, it was actually the father, he felt really bad because he thought he was the one that, you know, broke the machine. And I reassured him that, no, you know, it was a combination of it just being played without, you know, proper adjustments. And I reassured him that we would have it, you know, back in time for Christmas. So I took it back to the shop and I actually did these videos. It's actually still out there, Southwest Florida Pinball Avenue, I believe was the blog. And I did videos of me just ripping apart this machine. I needed the specialized parts for the Spider-Man that only Stern could give me. And Gary hates when I say this, Gary Stern, the owner of the company, but I talked to him while he was in a show. I showed him photographs of what I was looking at on the playfield. This machine received 21,332 plays in about two and a half years, which is amazing. Operators out there, if they had that many plays on it, they would be quite happy, you know, with that number of plays. So, you know, that was another piece of the puzzle that started me thinking, how could this happen? It was in a family room. How could it receive over 21,000 plays in this short amount of time? So Gary Stern seen this and he was willing to donate the parts that we needed for this machine. I met Marco Specialties also. You know, they donated the pinballs and the rubbers and the LEDs for the machine. So the community pretty much raised up to help us. We were doing fundraisers.
    45:57
    It was called Save the Spider-Man for the Kids. That was the very first Facebook campaign that we did. And it was just to raise money so we could afford the parts that weren't being provided.
    46:12
    And I knew that the maintenance was going to have to be done by myself. Every five weeks I go in there and take a look at the machine because, again, a pinball machine is similar to like a car. You know, you have to do routine maintenance. If not, the car is going to cease to function. You have to rotate your tires, keep the tires aired up, change the oil. You know, the basics. It's the same thing with the pinball machine. There's a, it's a mechanical device that needs, you know, maintenance to it. It needs adjustments in just some tweaking along the way. So it took 112 hours for us to rip down, rebuild and return the machine. And again, our goal was to do it in two weeks time, three weeks time and have it back in time for the Christmas holiday. So when we were returning it, I pulled it out of, you know, my SUV. And soon as the family seen it, they were following us and applauding. I mean, the kids were jumping up and down and the parents were super excited that their Spider-Man returned. This was their game. And they were super happy that it was returning. So, you know, we had all these, you know, moments where all I had to do was combine this information. So when I would return for the maintenance, again, I would receive this testimony from the small patients. They would come up and I would always offer for them to hold the pinballs in their hands and they would hold them like precious little eggs that were going to be dropped and broken. And I always thought that was, you know, pretty funny that these metal ball bearings that could be thrown across the room without receiving damage, and they were holding them like they were these precious jewels in their hands. And they just loved looking in the coin door, the front door of this machine, and they could see everything underneath the machine. They could see the wirings and the lights and just a fascination through their eyes.
    48:50
    And then the parents would come up and say how much they needed it. And they would say, you know, after they put their child to bed on a certain evening, they would go down there and relieve their stress by playing pinball.
    49:04
    And the one time, this is a funny story, I had a nurse run in. And she seemed to arrive for the maintenance and she told me not to move. The doctor wanted to talk to me. And I'm like, oh my goodness, what did I do? You know, what did I do wrong here that the doctor wants to talk to me? So he comes in and the first thing that he asked was, who keeps taking down this high score? So, you know, I had to confess that it was me. You know, I would test play, and I'm doing finger quotes, test play the machine. After I cleaned it up, I wanted to make sure that everything was working proper. And the best way to do that is to actually start and play a game. And I had a chance to actually take down his high score and put in my initials. So he was really upset about this. And I told him, hey, it is elevating your gameplay. So he's seen, you know, what I was mentioning and it pretty much made him feel better that he was becoming a better player. But, you know, in that moment, I realized that the doctors were really enjoying this and they needed it. And he actually shared with me when he gets a small patient and, you know, their family in there, I was so excited. Oh yeah, I was so excited that I was more than You know, with the attention And doing the steal Even the I was traveling the state of Florida. There's other children's hospitals in our state. And here I'm in Fort Myers. So I'm thinking, okay, there's probably a children's hospital in Tampa. And I was aware of that one. There's probably one in Jacksonville, Tampa, or I mentioned Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Tallahassee. So I'm thinking, yeah, there's probably five more children's hospital. So my goal at that time was to raise enough money and to be able to ask my friends in Jacksonville, hey, if we place a machine in your children's hospital, can you, you know, do the maintenance similar to what I'm doing in my hometown? And that's what the charity focus was on. But me coming up with that goal before I actually did the research on it was something that was an eye-opening moment. I found out quickly that at that time there was 14 children's hospitals just in our own state. So I'm like, oh goodness, I'm going to have to, you know, really get serious about this John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi.
    52:47
    And we filed for our paperwork through the IRS to be recognized as a 501c3 charity so we could function as a charity entity. So it allows us to take in donations to help expand, you know, our charity's mission. And we started getting inquiries of outside Florida, can we do this in San Francisco? Can we do this in Chicago? Can we do this in New York? And me not wanting to say no to, you know, something this dynamic and positive and beneficial. I said yes. So, you know, that really, you know, kicked it into a different level, gave us a new focus from just fixing one machine to just placing pinball machines in the state of Florida to becoming national. There was two things that happened to really, you know, cement that this charity is just super dynamic.
    54:11
    One is I was invited to the Pinball Expo of 2014. And Rob Burke comes up to me, you know, just one of the afternoons that I was there. And he says, I would love for you to talk about the charity. Would you like to get up on the stage at the banquet and, you know, tell everybody quickly, you know, in, you know, what the charity is about? And. Without thinking about it, I said, yes, you know, I would I would do that. I never been to a banquet before. I did not know what I was agreeing to. So I show up for the banquet and it had to be 225, 250 people in the banquet hall. And it wasn't just the here what the charity had to deal with, not at all. We were just an afterthought. They were doing the Hall of Fame inductions. Lyman Sheats was being inducted that year. A couple other people, but it was this great ceremony. Paul Ferris, the famous artist of the ballet machines. He was such a great artist. He was giving his life story. And I'm looking around this room and I see all these people that I respect. All their machines, I really enjoyed and I enjoyed the passion that they put into these machines. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, State of the Art, Pinball Machine, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Knapp Arcade, You know, there's all these people that I just respect immensely. And all of a sudden I get called up on stage and I'm like, man, you know, I don't like to go script. I like to speak from my heart or, you know, when I'm thinking of that moment. And the first thing I thought of is how much passion that these people in this room put into this, You know, industry and finger quills, because this was a game that they enjoyed making and a game that I enjoyed playing these machines. So the first thing that I said is, you know, I love all the passion and hard work that you put into designing these games. I'm going to show you how we're giving this passion back to people that could really need it. And, you know, I'm getting kind of choked up because, you know, as I speak those words, because that's what our charity tries to do is, you know, show people why these machines are needed. And I did my short little, you know, description of, you know, what I'm talking about here, how the charity started. And, you know, I stood up and I was leaving and Paul Ferris was a wrestler and he put me in a huge bear hug and I couldn't even breathe. Here's a guy I never even spoke with before and he said in my ear as he's holding me in this bear hug that he just loves everything that we were doing and just keep it up. This is a complete stranger that was showing me the emotion that I was feeling. And before I could walk off the stage, everybody stood up in the room and just started applauding our efforts.
    58:19
    You know, I'm like, wow, you know, here, these people are accepting what we do. You know, as a charity, they get it.
    58:30
    So I walk out of that room, you know, feeling, you know, elevated like I never felt before. Pretty certain that,
    58:43
    you know, this was a viable charity. This is something that we can move ahead. And a week later, I had something that added to that as well. We had a parent call me up on the phone and wanted to express how much I scared her. And I say that in a joking way because she wanted to, you know, express that she was terrified in this moment. We placed a Star Trek pinball machine in the St. Louis Children's Hospital.
    59:27
    And she was sharing with us how her son Brent was an outpatient at that time, and he would have to go back every three weeks for Hello and welcome to 2022 Midday väldigt postponed for interim treatments as an outpatient and he hated it, he just did not like it, he would just hide throughout the house, he would do everything he could to drag his feet and not want to go to his therapy Would make him very sick.
    60:14
    He would receive such, you know, heavy treatments that he would be very sick. He couldn't get out of bed. He was nauseated.
    60:27
    And that's putting it mildly. And he would be sick three to four days after he received treatment. Who would want to go through that? Who wouldn't look for that to happen, say, you know, wow, this is great. I'm going to be sick for, you know, this time and to that degree.
    60:51
    So we scared her because she could not find her child in the house at all. She went through all the hiding spots and she looked out the front window of the house and seen that the van door was open.
    61:09
    And she thought that was curious. She didn't think she left it open. So she walks out there. And sure enough, her son is fully dressed in the passenger seat, waiting to be transported somewhere. And she asked the question, Do you know where you're going today? And he's like, Oh, yeah, I just want to go back and play pinball. And when she shared with that, those words with me, it's like, oh my God. Knowing that he's going to be sick, he had a bright, you know, bright spots, a bright, you know, reason to go to the hospital, receive chemotherapy. Sethутai practitioners, Ilott llegue en esta guerra airtime al menos. You should really lighten up the darkness. And with her sharing that to me, really, you know, really kicked the charity into high gear. And if you look at the first year, you know, that was the first year that we really, you know, did it, I did it full time as a volunteer, was working, you know, I know 80 hours a week easily just to make it happen. We started dedicating machines as money was coming in. And, you know, that's when we really showed up and said, we need to make this happen. And that was modest. We were still under 10 machines. And now, you know, with 2024 being here, at the time of the broadcast, it's going to be 72 machines. So we're going to, you know, be on the road here shortly for Love Across America. We're going to do two more dedications. So, man, what a journey we had to get to where we are now. It's amazing. I want to I just I want to be mindful of time and I want to make sure that we can kind of talk about what the modern version or iteration of Project Pinball looks like. You know, it's a it's a team of three employees, yourself included. And then you have you have a board with with Brad and Howard that are that are doing amazing things, helping to coordinate all the all the technical volunteering and the fundraising efforts.
    64:07
    How what is what is Project Pinball structured like at this point? How? I guess not only like how our responsibilities divvied up, but like, where are you identifying room for growth What are some of the things that you want to do in the future? Well, that's a great question. In the beginning, I was the sole person with the focus in the mission where we needed to get to. Other people did realize what our mission was, and they would help maybe, you know, locally in their backyard to help us to achieve our mission meaning if we in Chicago there would be people reaching out to us saying hey we have a need for your charity here and it would help us with the focus but at that time in the beginning it was you know just a sole person it was me leading the charge we had I had Sierra come in as a volunteer out of a local college. They would require service learning hours, which I loved, and they would come in as interns. And Sierra was so dynamic and she just demonstrated her passion for what we did. She understood what we did as a charity. When it came time for her to look for a job or for employment, I knew that she was the perfect person. She is my right hand person. I mean, she is Project Pinball. She's super amazing. And if people talk to anyone at Project Pinball Charity, they know of Sierra. I mean, she just has hands on with everything that I do and what the charity does. We had Brad. And Brad could relate to, you know, certain experience in his life. So when he heard about the charity, he came on board and said, what can we do? And not only is Brad, Brad is part of our board, but we have to thank his whole family, Sandy and Christian and Levi. I mean, they're big parts of our volunteer group as well.
    66:48
    Howard's been on board from the very beginning. He was one of the first people to donate to the Spider-Man receiving funds for it to be rehabbed. The machine that started the charity, he was there. So Howard's always found a way to elevate the charity and it just made sense for him to come on board. And then we just added Taj. Taj is a super caring, dynamic person that we knew that we had to bring her on board and she's like our marketing director. But we can't limit her description to that because she wears so many hats. She's there helping support everybody when they ask. It could be, you know, coming from myself or Brad or Howard and she's just there dynamically helping elevate everybody. We have the best functioning board out there. And I want to say that it's just not a board of people with like-minded values. I really think that we're a family when it comes down to it. And we have the passion to put behind this charity to elevate it. So our mission in the future is continually growing. And we had several phases in the very beginning, knowing that we would have to be patient to grow into them. But now we're opening up those phases to really elevate We're donating them to senior living communities in rehab centers, which we're using the older machines, which opens up a new door. We're doing adult care facilities, not only children's hospitals, but adult care hospitals. We're going to be donating to Big Brothers Big Sisters.
    69:23
    We donated to Camp Sunshine up in Maine. They're a place that helps with therapeutic activities. They invite doctors. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Bay Area, Maybe a child is dealing with leukemia. They invite the child and the whole family up there and they have doctors which specialize in what they're going through to be there. So when I heard about that, I'm like, wow, that's amazing, the support that they offer. So we have a machine there as well. So we're a lot bigger than what people are aware of. Not only do we do Children's Hospital, Ronald McDonald Homes, but we do these other avenues as they are presented to us. So yeah, we love the charity. And I like to say this as a, you know, I changed the quote a little bit, but it takes a village to raise a charity. It's not just me, you know, running this charity. I have a great support. Not only do we have Sierra and Taj and Brad and Howard, but we have a legion of volunteers out there. And they range from our volunteer techs that take care of these machines that are placed in these, you know, foreign cities like, you know, Los Angeles and San Francisco, Portland. We're up in Maine also. So we need the people to support these machines and do the maintenance, routine maintenance. We have volunteers that are doing fundraising for us in their community. And I think that's another thing that I wanted to be known that when we raise money, when we say we go to Tulsa or we go to Phoenix and you're holding fundraisers for the charity, A hundred percent of their donations go back to Phoenix, say, since we mentioned that. A hundred percent of their efforts and their sweat and dedication goes back into their own community. And this allows us to take our local charity from Fort Myers, Florida, and, you know, plant it into Phoenix as a local charity. That way every effort that they put in is benefiting in elevating their community. Because I believe there's a lot of people that want to do good, but sometimes they're discouraged by not knowing how. So if we could give them the focus and say, you know, 100% of your efforts are going to return to your community for your kids and families, I think they'd really enjoy that. And, you know, I think that's something unique about our charity that we're very transparent. We show exactly where the money is coming from and where it's going to stay. So I love to end about our charity. It's great. And I want to I apologize for rushing this along, but I want to be mindful of time. You know, there are a number of ways that people can support Project Pinball. And, you know, we Daniel and I had a conversation before this about the fact that Daniel may be the most humble individual I've ever met, who, despite running a charity, never wants to overtly say, hey, donate money to us. Donate money to us. So I'm going to be that catalyst right now and say I strongly encourage you supporting Project Pinball in whatever way you feel comfortable. And it could be something as simple as sharing the message. And if you are somebody who owns a pinball machine that you would be interested in donating to Project Pinball, you can reach out to them directly to do that. If you're somebody who has technical skills and is interested in just saying, hey, if you need me, I'm a resource, reaching out is a great way. And if you're somebody who has fiscal resources, if you're somebody who has money, one of the things that I love that you guys do is the game raffles. And for those who are listening who are like, game raffle, I'm in. Like, this sounds fun. What are we doing? Whenever there's a new game that Project Pinball is able to get their hands on, they will do a raffle where you can buy a ticket for a fixed price. And there's a finite number of tickets. I think it's usually around 200. And you can buy a ticket for a set amount and they will draw a winner and that person will win a brand new pinball machine. And for those who are listening who are kind of unfamiliar with the market, a brand new pinball machine can cost between six and well, a gazillion dollars at this point, but about 6000 on the low end for a new machine. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, And I see what they're like, oh, it's a project pinball one. And it's this this feather in their cap that they are just so proud of that not only were they, you know, I donated for for ten different raffles and I finally won one.
    75:10
    But it's also just a cool way to to to kind of give back to the community, which I think is really exciting. But. Charities need things more than just money. They need effort, they need visibility and they need connections. So if you're somebody who is listening to this broadcast, whether or not you're involved with the pinball community and you're thinking to yourself like, oh, there's a there's a local organization that could benefit by having a game here or, you know, hey, there's a local pinball club that maybe they're they're unaware of what Project Pinball is doing. Please get the word out and also let the word come to you. If you you can visit Project Pinball dot org to learn more about the organization. You can also follow them on X or on Facebook just to see what's going on. There's a newsletter as well. So there's a bazillion ways to get connected. And I just kind of want to put it out there. Daniel, am I missing anything in the in the hype machine that any cogs or levers that I forgot to pull? Not at all. I think you pretty much covered everything. And the origin of the 5050 raffle was back when I was younger, I would see the volunteer fire station near us do a 5050 raffle. There was always so much excitement. I would see the churches do 50-50 raffles. Again, I'm very bad at asking for money. I want people to recognize the value and come to the conclusion that they want to help the charity. So the 50-50 was a great way for me to promote my passion, which is playing pinball. It allows a winner to pretty much choose a machine, a title that they would want and have it delivered right to them. And it allows that other 50% to go to the charity and allow us to place a pinball machine. So if you do the math, it's right now a pinball machine. The pro models are $7,000 and the premiums are around $9,500. But we do limited editions pinball machines and they're, again, pricey. They're $12,999. So let's say $13,000. So there's a lot of people out there that don't have the means to purchase a new machine, but they can jump in a charity raffle and support a charity that they believe in. So I think it really helps out to help grow our charity as well as maybe, you know, grow our pinball community as well. Absolutely. Is there, so I got, I got two final questions for you, Daniel. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Ballywin, Straight Down the Middle, Ballywin, Straight Down the Middle, How many things come to mind? You know, I always want to talk about the charity because again, I see how it helps the kids and their parents because, you know, when we do the dedications, I wish everybody could be joining us for these to see the pure joy that we deliver by placing a pinball machine. And that is my motivation out there. I wanted to share that. I want people to go out there and look up what we do and get the input. They could go to GuideStar, which is a charity that monitors charities. And I love that. There's a lot of charities out there that are, you know, hard on the other charities because sometimes they aren't as focused on their programs as they need to be. And, you know, with a charity like GuideStar, they go out there and they really dig into the nuances of how the charity operates. And I'm proud of, you know, what we have out there. So I want people to do their homework and you know when it comes time to giving the charity I would like to maybe be you know on the front of their list to help because our charity is elevated by the people around us. We always rely on funding for these great things and you know we soar higher and quicker because of the support that we receive. I've got one final question for you that's something that I promised I'd come back to which is uh you know I I wanted to put in so at some point we're going to talk about Daniel's uh avid cycling and I think we'll do that on a future episode um but I want to talk about your grand kits for a second and my question is uh is this which is you know I think the theme of mentorship and leadership and self-reflection has come up a lot in this conversation. And I'm curious about what characteristics do you want your grandkids to see in you? When they're looking up to grandpa, what are things that you want them to take away? Wow, that's a deep question there, Ryan. There's so much that you want to achieve in the eyes of your grandkids. You
    81:04
    you want to be nurturing. You want to you know, as a parent, former parent, right, or continuum parent, you want to protect.
    81:14
    So I would like to you know, teach them things that they would need for the rest of their life in a soft way where it doesn't seem like a lecture where They could see grandpa living a life that they would like to mimic. I mean, it's tremendous pressure on, you know, mentors because you want to show the good of the world and not to frustration because I believe that is found by individuals out there. So I always try to show the positive in everything that we do, the fun in just routine things, try to elevate things. And I think that, you know, my grandkids, they just want, you know, time. They want to, you know, laugh and play. And when you get down to their level and you push Hot Wheel cars across the carpet, But, you know, they understand that, you know, you're part of their world. You're, it's not the other way around. You become, you know, part of their world. You're, you know, just integrated with everything. And the great thing about kids is, you know, there's no holding back. They're very emotional on, you know, what they feel and they share that. And you know, just seeing the pure joy of just, you know, picking up a grandchild and just, you know, putting them on your back as a piggyback or, you know, just acting like RAPTORY MENIC, I think that's the freedom as a grandparent. You don't have that. You know that, you know, your sons and daughters are doing that full time so you could open up and, you know, be the grandparent that's fun and light. And, you know, I enjoy that role. I really do. I love my my kids, but I love my grandkids. You know, in such a different way. That's awesome. Well, Daniel, I want to I can't thank you enough for being here. Happy Valentine's Day. And I hope that I hope that we can catch up soon and and have some further conversation. Well, thanks Ryan. That was a deep conversation.
    84:49
    http://www.�UR性合作a.com Once again, it's Valentine's Day, or if you're listening to this, let's just pretend it's Valentine's Day. See how you can extend yourself and demonstrate your care to somebody else. I dare ya. Our next episode drops on February 28th, and we'll be talking with Bill Lasher. Bill is a journalist and author who has written such books as Eve of a Hundred Midnights, The Golden Fortress, and has a new book coming out called A Danger Shared. It's going to be a great conversation just learning about the writing process in 2024 and where the modern state of journalism is. Getting an inside look into that beautiful balance between grit and hard work and seeing your visions realized. So if you're interested in learning about journalism, if you're interested in learning about writing, or if you just want to hear from a really cool author, please tune in on February 28th to your favorite podcast channel with Meditations with Ryan Slomek. Equally, if you like the show, please share it, give it a review, spread some good vibes into the universe, or follow me on social media. The World of Ryan Slomek is on Facebook and Instagram where you can get regular updates about the show. Thanks so much for tuning in, and as always, please make space for conversation because you just might learn something.