Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Part 9: 1978 Gottlieb Close Encounters of the Third Kind Project. Roto Target Part 2: Trouble!

Pinball Shenanigans·video·38m 20s·analyzed·Oct 23, 2025
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.024

TL;DR

Roto wheel restoration encounters alignment and Lizzy board timing issues; 95% project completion.

Summary

Mike Dust continues his 1978 Gottlieb Close Encounters restoration project, focusing on troubleshooting the roto wheel mechanism. He receives technical guidance from Kim Oswald (Goat Shed) and Dave Souza, disassembles and cleans the roto unit, makes adjustment attempts per 1977 Gottlieb parts manual specifications, but encounters persistent spinning and alignment issues. After extensive diagnostics, he discovers the Lizzy board control system has slow switch registration response times (requiring ~5 second delays), which was falsely attributed to hardware failures. The machine is now ~95% complete except for roto target functionality.

Key Claims

  • Kim Oswald of the Goat Shed provided valuable roto wheel adjustment tips and referenced helpful instructional videos

    high confidence · Direct acknowledgment by Mike; Goat Shed's video content referenced as source material

  • Dave Souza provided original 1977 Gottlieb parts manual documentation for roto unit adjustment specifications

    high confidence · Mike states: 'Dave Souza hooked me up with this from the um what like 1977 gotly parts manual. So this is awesome to have.'

  • The Lizzy board has slow switch registration requiring approximately 5-second delays between button presses and game state transitions

    high confidence · Mike demonstrates this behavior multiple times: 'Okay, now Lizzie is happy. Needs about 5 seconds.' and 'So Lizzy is just a little slow.'

  • The roto wheel is not properly aligned with the contact plate rivets in its resting position

    high confidence · Mike discovers: 'I think our problem is that uh this wheel is not aligned to this plate here' and uses adjustment slots to correct alignment

  • Lubricating the roto wheel axle negatively affected spin performance and required cleaning

    high confidence · Mike states: 'I started to in the um axle portion of this and it just made it spin like crap. So, I cleaned it all out.'

Notable Quotes

  • “So, thank you very much and uh they have been helpful. And also shout out to Dave Souza who was able to hook me up with the roto unit adjustment instructions.”

    Mike Dust @ ~2:45 — Acknowledges community support and resources that enabled technical progress

  • “This is just a mess. This is really just a lot of crap all happening at once.”

    Mike Dust @ ~24:15 — Expression of frustration when multiple systems fail simultaneously during initial roto testing

  • “Okay, now Lizzie is happy. Needs about 5 seconds... So Lizzy is just a little slow.”

    Mike Dust @ ~41:00 — Key diagnostic moment identifying the root cause of apparent hardware failures was actually Lizzy board software timing

  • “I'm sorry, random A, B, and C lanes. I was blaming you guys for being faulty, but it was Lizz's slowness all along.”

    Mike Dust @ ~43:30 — Humorous acknowledgment of false hardware blame and self-correction regarding diagnosis methodology

  • “Basically, this thing is like 95% done except for the stupid roto target. That is the last 5%.”

    Mike Dust @ ~49:45 — Project status update; roto wheel remains the primary outstanding issue

  • “When you swap DMDs, remember to take off your sticky notes first.”

    Mike Dust @ ~0:05 and ~50:20 — Practical tip framing device used at video opening and closing; suggests common mistake among restorers

Entities

Mike DustpersonKim OswaldpersonDave SouzapersonClose Encounters of the Third Kind (Gottlieb 1978)gameGoat ShedorganizationLizzy BoardproductNywamp BoardproductGrazley Garageorganization

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Kim Oswald (Goat Shed) and Dave Souza provide technical documentation and guidance for roto wheel restoration, indicating active community knowledge sharing

    high · Mike explicitly thanks both for providing adjustment instructions, video references, and 1977 Gottlieb parts manual documentation unavailable elsewhere

  • ?

    operational_signal: Systematic approach to hardware troubleshooting: multiple test games, lamp diagnostics, switch cleaning, component alignment verification, and methodical elimination of variables

    high · Mike documents extensive testing sequence: switch cleaning, lamp tests, socket rework, board swaps, and final root cause identification of Lizzy timing

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball community members (Goat Shed, Dave Souza) actively create and share restoration documentation and video resources filling gaps in original manufacturer documentation

    high · 1977 Gottlieb parts manual unavailable through standard sources; Mike had to rely on community member with original documentation; Goat Shed videos cited as primary learning resource

  • ?

    product_concern: Roto wheel mechanism exhibits alignment and mechanical issues (bent fork, poor contact alignment) that persist despite cleaning and adjustment attempts

    high · Multiple failed test attempts; wheel doesn't spin reliably; contact points misaligned with rivets; Mike defers work stating 'I'm done with rotos for now'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Lizzy board exhibits significant switch registration delay (~5 seconds) causing false diagnosis of hardware failures and requiring operator patience/workarounds

Transcript

youtube_auto_sub · $0.000

0:02
Oh, and uh one tip for the road. Um when you swap DMDs, remember to take off your sticky notes first. I'm Mike Dus and this is Pinball Shenanigans.
0:17
[Music] So, did you see that game? The Toronto Blue Jays actually pulled it off. They were uh down like 3-1 for the longest time and then bam, threerun hit and they are going to the World Series. Anyway, let's talk some roto wheel. I want to give a shout out to Kim Oswald of the Goat Shed who reached out to me on Pinside and offered me some suggestions and tips and pointed me in the direction of his videos for help which I was like, "Ah, you must be the goat shed guy." Because I already watched those videos. So, thank you very much and uh they have been helpful. And also shout out to Dave Souza who was able to hook me up with the Oh, it doesn't say it. Where does it say it? Here is where it says it. Roto unit adjustment instructions. Uh I saw the goat shed using these instructions. I tried to find them on the internet and I was very unsuccessful. They weren't in the manual. I found one very blurry photo of this and it was no good. So Dave Soua hooked me up with this from the um what like 1977 gotly parts manual. So this is awesome to have. There's basically two adjustments that you got to make sure are correct. I mean two main ones. these guys here. And one is basically saying, let's see if we can zoom in here. You need, can you read that? It's pretty blurry. This
2:14
these two lines here. Okay. See this thing sticking up here? The stop paw, and this thing sticking down here, the A-4185 unit. See how there's a little gap between the two? Those two lines indicate that that should be a 316th gap right there. We'll see on my roto unit

high · Mike demonstrates multiple times that switches don't register for 5+ seconds after game transitions: 'Needs about 5 seconds' and 'No switches are going to register for like 5 seconds'

2:47
that that is uh too close. I need to widen that gap. And you can kind of see that that looks really adjusted far left. So, and it's also not even like perpendicular. It's leaning to the left. So, that's the one adjustment. And the other adjustment is that if I got this correctly, once this solenoid bracket is installed and you hold this lever down all the way,
3:32
as far as it goes to where it hits the uh hold on, this isn't working very well. to where it hits the um like where the plunger reaches its max throw like it will only go so far. Then you want to make sure that this thing is spinning without clicking.
3:53
Appears to be doing that and surprisingly seems to be spinning pretty freely. I thought it was pretty gummy and thought that might have been part of my problem.
4:06
So hopefully a good cleaning and adjusting is all it takes. And then um as suggested by the goat shed, I'll probably lubricate any of the uh metal on metal pivot points.
4:21
And that should be good. Maybe straighten out that bracket a bit. I did straighten out this fork that was bent quite a bit. And um yeah, so that's the plan. Take this thing apart, clean it, and uh so yeah, let's get started. Okay, that was relatively simple to uh disassemble. Just popped off the little e-clipip off of this bolt here. And this washer. Actually, I had to fight with it. That was on there very snug. I don't know. Can't be the original one cuz as you can see, it doesn't just go on there. I had to use pliers to get that off. This piece is freaking mangled. And I don't know if that little sort of lip there is just wear in the overall mech or if that's intentional. So, I'm not sure if that's going to be a problem or not, but it is nowhere near straight. I'm going to try and bang it straight.
5:38
Although the wheel was spinning pretty freely, it is definitely in need of a cleaning. We'll clean in there. Here's the wheel. How do these teeth look?
6:00
I saw the goat shed boys um filing these teeth. They look pretty good to me, but I don't really know what I'm looking for. So, I don't think I'm going to bother with the filing. There's a washer on there. Another e-clipip. Actually don't want to lose that. this piece and then this piece.
6:28
They all seem to be intact. The spring is definitely seen better days, but I should be fine. The nylon
6:42
portion there looks to be uh pretty good actually. It's not worn down flat on one side or anything like you see in the um valley linear flipper mechs. So, oh, I also added a bit of a longer wire on the uh solenoid there. Looking back at my video, this wire looks like it's going to attach just fine to where it came from. This was just a little bit tight, so made it a little longer. All right. So, let's clean this up and see how well it spins. All right. I got these parts all cleaned up.
7:26
There's really um not too much trouble. It's a lot of scrubbing and green scrubby and purple scrubby and um uh someone was asking what product I was using. If it is super clean and uh that's why I'm wearing gloves because if you don't your hand will turn into bones and we don't want that. So with that product and a bunch of scrubbing using the toothbrush and everything it is clean. Uh, use some Q-tips to get in the the spinny hole.
8:17
should be good to go. I tried to bang this as uh straight as I could. As you can see, I failed, but it's better. You see that little notch right there? I hope that doesn't pose a problem because that's
8:39
where the arm I think goes down. And if it gets caught on that little nook there, I might mess with things, but we'll see. So, I think it's safe to reassemble. Okay, I've got the thing reassembled and I've got this adjustment. That one's pretty straightforward. This one here, adjust the drive paw lift, which is 4184 A-4184. So, this guy with the drive lever in energized position. So that means you know push in the solenoid as though it's activated and adjust this with this the drive p this guy
9:37
should clear spinning ratchet which is this spinning ratchet here by 132 both poles should be clear of ratchet at this position. Stroke of plunger in coil is 7/8 of an inch. I can't I don't really understand exactly where this 132nd clearance is supposed to be, but I've kind of messed with it quite a bit and I've got it here so that I can sort of demonstrate. There is my 316th gap right here. might even be a little bit more than 316, but seems fine. And then the other adjustment is here and here. You want when you activate, I believe it's this bottom piece here that needs some clearance somewhere. So, I don't know. But this is kind of doing what it's supposed to be doing.
10:49
Right. So, all I can really do is just install it. And if there's an adjustment, I can use these screws to adjust this guy. I can use these screws to adjust this guy. That's really about all I think I can do. Oh, you can adjust the height of the solenoid, which I think
11:16
is fine. Oh, that was the other thing. When you have it in the energized position like so, you want this to be spinning freely and it is. So, I didn't add any lube yet. I started to in the um axle portion of this and it just made it spin like crap. So, I cleaned it all out. So, I didn't add any on these pivot points. just all lube free for the moment. Uh I did uh add in the missing screw here
11:55
and um tightened everything up. So I think my work here is done. Okay, back at the garage and it is 8° C out. Feels like 5, so it's getting a little chilly. So, I brought me a little space heater and uh hopefully that's going to help because otherwise I won't be able to last very long here. So, time to reassemble the roto wheel. See if that works. And then um we'll be uh near the finish line. do some play testing, check out all the bulbs, make sure they're working, see if I can actually get into a diagnostics on this uh using this Lizzy board and see if there's a good lamp test for that. So, I'm going to try and warm up and uh we'll start installing this. Um, maybe first I will take my brasso that I brought and just kind of polish these contact points up a little better. Okay, it's been like 5 minutes and this thing already shut off because once it's internal temperature gets too hot, I guess it does that. Oh yes, it's coming back on. Oh, thank god. Without that, I'm not going to be able to last long. And also, I forgot my headlamp at home. So, epic fail, but here's Brasso. Put some on the cloth, polished it up, and I think it might be a slight improvement. They were pretty clean after the brake cleaner. So, give that a little bit more of a dry polish here and then uh stick everything back together again. Okay. Well, I've got the roto wheel installed, but it ain't going well. It's just not spinning very well. So, this almost certainly is not going to work. Check this out. Kind of spins, but then doesn't really
14:25
return very well. So, maybe when I turn the playfield upside down, a little bit of gravity will help, but I highly doubt that. So, I think um this can of worms is uh a little bigger than I was hoping for. So, I will flip the playfield and try it out. Just out of curiosity, but uh I don't have high hopes, sadly. Okay, let's just fire up a game and see what happens. Oh, when my heater turns off, I think the lights get a little bit brighter on the playfield here. They're on the same circuit. All right, here we go.
15:29
All right, Lizzy one play test. Oh, we got nothing. Wait. Oh, I think we blew a solenoid fuse. Oh, wait.
15:46
Okay. No, we did not. But the rotor wheel definitely didn't spin when we first went through the lanes up top. I don't think should spin when we hit our A, B, or C. Well, that's kind of spun there. [Music]
16:11
Maybe it's just sort of what? It's very weird. Okay, try to spin there. It's like one of the lanes up top. Was it the C? Didn't register. Let's see if we hit the targets. [Music]
16:38
targets aren't like in the resting position. So, let's do that [Music] there. That's in the resting position. Now, let's hit it. [Music]
17:01
Hm. Only one of those three switches is working. Uh or not. Spinner's not spinning.
17:15
There's a lot of weirdness going on here. I think there might be um something with the Lizzy board possibly.
17:34
I heard that it can be a little finicky with switch heads. This is This is just a mess. This is really just a lot of crap all happening at once. Oh, and now my back box is swinging open. Hey, it's a little brighter now at least.
18:02
So, yeah, I heard something about the Lizzy board like can sometimes just be picky about um the hell. Now my start button's not working.
18:17
Oh, we're picky about like when switches are hit, whether it's going to register or not. That would make sense because that's happened a couple times in the upper lanes even though I've cleaned and adjusted those switches. And a couple times it seems like I've hit the spinner and it didn't register. Let's try.
18:38
Maybe that's an adjustment. [Music] So, all drops down lights extra ball and special. All right, let's try the B lane.
19:19
A lane. [Music] Okay. So, maybe that's just a oddity that no matter how many spins. Oh, there was two there. Okay. Maybe that's just an adjustment.
19:39
[Music] That didn't register. So see how the left target is registering. So that means my left roto value should work. But the right is not. So that's not working. The middle is not working either.
20:29
Oh, that kind of looked like it. Maybe it's like maybe the problem is that the switch is closed,
20:50
Okay. Well, I got to figure out what to do with this roto wheel, but uh it ain't going well. Okay, I adjusted the spinner and cleaned the contact better. And it's not really going to be a good demonstration when it's fighting gravity in this position, but
21:20
[Music] getting multiple registrations now. So, I'm good with that. So, and in terms of these roto targets not registering these guys here,
21:37
it was registering there all of a sudden. But let's put on the old goggles.
21:47
I think our problem is that uh this wheel is not aligned to this plate here. and see where the little contact points are. That guy needs to be on a rivet. See how it's on a rivet right there? So now, won't really be able to see this, but you can see my fing. You can see the depressing of the switch in there somewhat. Try a different switch. See, that's working. the other switch.
22:29
This last one kind of a little sketchy. Let's move this over to where they are making contact. Let's try this last switch again.
22:42
[Music] It's kind of weird. Maybe it is cuz it's moving while I'm pressing it, but shouldn't be really moving at all, should it?
22:57
Anyway, I think um I can use the slots on this guy to adjust the wheel so that it actually lines up to the rivets when it's at its resting point. So, I should at least be able to do that. Okay. So,
23:17
at least I got that alignment right for now. I may have to, who knows, tear this whole thing apart and put it back together again. But at least I kind of know what's going on with this. And I also know that these two lights must be out cuz they don't turn on when I hit the targets. So, I'll deal with those bulbs. and spinner
23:45
is better. So, baby steps. I was actually able to get into uh the diagnostics. All it was is this button is just a little bit uh flaky. Maybe needs a cleaning. But I guess the Lizzy board just accesses the original um diagnostics which are kind of crappy. But I did see all the lights come on for about 5 seconds and
24:25
it's like a game of memory. I think this one was out. 20K was out. So, I'll change a couple bulbs and then I'll show you that uh lamp test. Okay, I changed those couple bulbs. Let's zoom out so we can kind of see everything. So,
24:46
let's see if you can see everything here. I'll just hit the button and
24:54
stand up so you can actually see what's going on here. So, it says one on the display the bottom there. Oh, and it says seven up top. Don't know what any of this means.
25:09
I think it skipped to three there. Four. It's showing one. So, maybe this is like display test or something. No, maybe not. 7 8 10. That's like high score to date. Possibly I could reset that. This looks like a display test. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Just the that half. I think if I hit it again, we might go into lamp test. So, here we go. There it is. Okay. Uh one, two, three. 10x on the top. 5,000 drop target. this target here and same player shoots again light. Now it's going through solenoids. But that's what I mean about the uh original diagnostic tool. I thought it like just went through each bulb like once, but I think that is a different system. Anyway, I better change those bulbs before I forget. Okay, most of those bulbs actually tested good, but I changed them anyways. And uh let's see if I got them all. Here we go. Got 10 seconds. Ah, this one did not work, but I think Oh, 10,000. Okay, getting there. See all this dust floating around? I should have showed this live, but uh you know how the inserts get like these black rings of carbon dust that build up over the years. I usually just take like a paintbrush and wipe them down very easily, but I don't have a paintbrush. So, tried my little portable air can
27:20
And although it's not perfect, it got rid of like probably 80% of all the crud in there. So, I might bring in my little dry paint brush and go over some more inserts, but that actually worked pretty good. Okay, another thing I found is that I don't think this button's flaky at all. I think it just takes a little bit of extra time for the Lizzy to process the button push because if I just sort of take my time.
27:56
Okay, watch. You can see five on the screen. Give it a second. There's six.
28:06
7 8 Okay, nine will show up. Just got to be patient. Sometimes it just takes a little bit longer. See, I hit the button. There it is. 12. Okay, let's see if we got all of the bulbs this time. All right, ready? Got 5 seconds. 10K, you bugger. and 10 x. All right. But you can see there's a lot less of the uh carbon rings in the inserts showing through. So at least that is a nice improvement. So two more bulbs to go. Okay. So I dremelled the socket and I removed the wire from the lug to the butt on the two stubborn guys.
28:59
These two bulbs now work too, which is nice. And with the press of this last button, let's see if it actually works. I took too long and it went back to uh the start. Okay, one moment. Okay, here we go. Let's hit it. Hey, that one works. And that one works. Okay, I think what? This guy's not working.
29:31
All right, not quite done yet. Okay, hopefully this is the last lamp test. All right, here we go.
29:46
All right, I think we finally got them all. Okay, maybe we'll try another test game for fun. Oh, wait. We got no coin door lights. And now we have light. So, one thing that is a bonus, I forgot that I had this light here all along. And uh it is very handy. And the other thing is um when Dremeling out sockets, make sure the machine is uh turned off. Otherwise, you get some sparks. Ask me how I know. All right, let's try another test game here and see what happens. A lane going to register. Nope.
30:46
I think that's I feel like that might be a Lizzy thing, but I could be wrong. I could just clean the switch and find out. Let's see if the Cine Yeah. C worked.
31:05
See if I can hit the roto target and have it register. But I guess it probably won't unless it's in the proper position, which it is not.
31:26
Hey, that left out lane worked. And I saw the green light register on the 500 target. The leftmost roto target right now
31:45
to check on that a lane. I don't want to falsely accuse Lizzy, you know. Might not be his fault or her. This is kind of a female name, isn't it?
32:02
All right, target time. A target time. Hey, that worked. Just barely touching the rivet probably. Does that register? Okay, let's try for a lane. And there we go. Work that time.
32:32
So, I think I'm pretty much down to just getting that roto wheel working properly. And I think I will save that for another time because I'm done with roto wheels for now. Okay, I think I've got this Lizzy board figured out. Let's see if this will work. Okay, sometimes right at the end of the game, it takes a bit for it to uh you know, get settled and register the start button, but almost certainly the first ball is not going to register here. I did take a little bit too long. Oh, okay. That was a bad bad example. Hold on. Let me show you what I'm talking about here. Okay, I'm going to have to be quick about this. When I drain, as soon as I end the game and I go to press the start button, it's not going to register cuz it needs time. And then when it does start, as soon as I plunge the ball into the lane, it's not going to register cuz it needs time. Okay, ready? Here we go. Draining. Okay, game over. Look, not working. But now, give it a second till it gets settled. Okay, now Lizzie is happy. Needs about 5 seconds. Oh, and there it started. So, I didn't even have to hit it again. But now I got to plunge and no go. No switches are going to register for like 5 seconds. Now it'll work. See that? So Lizzy is just a little slow. So I think you can program that to um work better. I don't know how to do that. So, in the meanwhile, I'm going to pop back in my Nywamp board. Okay, Niwamp back in business. Now, let's see how this plays. I'm sorry, start button. I'm sorry, diagnostic button. And I'm sorry, random A, B, and C lanes. I was blaming you guys for being faulty, but it was Lizz's slowness all along. So, a lot of false accusations going on in this whole close encounters project here. Okay.
34:52
And the sounds are back to proper speed cuz I think it's not just the uh response time. It is the audio. I suspected that the audio sounded a little slow. I'm going to turn it up. Hold on. Hey, I said hold on. Okay, now we can probably hear the audio a little better.
35:27
Even though God system one sounds suck in general, this is so much better than slow Lizzy sounds.
35:37
Like I said, I think that can all be programmed. There's so much you can do with these Lizzy boards. Like you can program your attract mode. You can do all kinds of stuff. You as in not me because I don't know how to really deal with all that kind of crap. Software is not my forte. Uh oh, my wump is set to five balls. Actually, we went over this in a video before, and I think I'm going to leave it just because whoever ends up with this machine would probably prefer having games that are longer than 14 seconds.
36:39
Let's try and hit uh roto action. No, that wasn't You can't backhand that. Let's uh shots myself here. Oh, I really did shots myself. Okay, well that is uh much better. So, I'm going to do a few more play test games just see if this MPU crashes or not cuz that is a suspicion in the past. And I'm trying to um uh debunk that myth. Hopefully, it's just a myth.
37:14
Okay. I played a bunch of games and had no issues with my Nw board at all and everything was working great. I had one light bulb go out on me, so I replaced that and the heater just came on. So, we got a little bit more dim on our light situation here. But basically, this thing is like 95% done except for the stupid roto target. That is the last 5%. So, I'm going to um deal with that later because I'm done with rotos for the moment. And also, I just set up this shack attack and I'm going to mess with that for a bit. But I'm going to do that off camera cuz I've got enough video footage to uh edit. So, uh that's it for now. Oh, and uh one tip for the road. Um, when you swap DMDs, remember to take off your sticky notes first.