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The Pinball Show Ep 141: Pinball Turkey Trends

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 23m·analyzed·Nov 21, 2023
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Stern's record 22 code updates, production schedule shifts to end-of-December inventory, and bold 2024 market predictions.

Summary

The Pinball Show episode 141 covers Stern Pinball's production schedule adjustments, market trends, and industry predictions. Hosts Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discuss 22 simultaneous code updates from Stern, new Black Knight Sword of Rage reruns, Barrels of Fun's continued success with Labyrinth, and bold 2024 sales forecasts. The episode features holiday banter, a comprehensive production roadmap through Q4 2024, and analysis suggesting 2023 was Stern's strongest year in a decade.

Key Claims

  • Stern released 22 new code updates in a single week covering majority of Spike 2 series games, potentially a world record for simultaneous updates

    high confidence · Craig Bobby Top Stories segment citing official Stern announcements

  • Stern is moving their two-week factory inventory from early January to late December 2023

    high confidence · Zach Minney production update section with confirmation of official schedule change

  • Zach predicts 2023 was Stern Pinball's most successful year from a sales perspective in the last decade

    medium confidence · Zach Minney prediction based on dealer knowledge and industry observation, not official figures

  • Dennis predicts 2024 will be a worse year for Stern sales than 2023 despite stronger new products

    medium confidence · Dennis Creasel prediction based on market analysis and post-pandemic demand normalization

  • Stranger Things Premium may have been bumped to 2024 due to parts delay (unconfirmed rumor)

    low confidence · Zach mentions rumor from Pinside/social media but states no official confirmation from Stern

  • Godzilla Premium and Stranger Things Premium are the highest-demand games currently for Stern

    medium confidence · Zach's assessment based on production scheduling decisions to run multiple builds

  • Black Knight Sword of Rage toppers are being re-manufactured and restocked by Stern

    high confidence · Craig Bobby citing San Diego Amusements website showing $14.99 pricing

  • Barrels of Fun continues making minor tweaks to Labyrinth mechs based on Chicago Expo and Houston Arcade Expo feedback

    high confidence · Craig Bobby citing social media posts and real-world playtest data

Notable Quotes

  • “Well, you know it's a slow news cycle when we kick off the Top Stories segment with Pinball Code Update News. Unless it's the mother of all code updates, courtesy of Stern Pinball.”

    Craig Bobby @ Top Stories segment — Highlights the significance of Stern's 22 simultaneous code updates as unusual news event

  • “I think 2023, from a sales perspective, has been probably the most successful for Stern Pinball in the last decade.”

    Zach Minney @ Production updates section — Bold prediction about Stern's annual performance; contradicts broader market pessimism

  • “2024 will be a worse year for Stern sales than 2023.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Market analysis section — Counterpoint prediction framed as response to Zach's optimism; based on market normalization thesis

  • “They are moving around the schedule a lot based on the market right now, like what is hot, what people are wanting, which is why you're seeing accessories and games pop up that you're like, oh, I didn't see that coming.”

    Zach Minney @ Production updates section — Explains Stern's new responsive production strategy vs. historical fixed scheduling

  • “Supply chain constraints that I think, I think if there had not been supply chain issues, 2023 would not have exceeded 2022 or possibly 2021.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Market analysis section — Contextualizes Zach's 2023 sales claim; attributes success to logistics catch-up rather than demand surge

  • “I think this is I think they show it possibly to the reveal in January. I'm still holding on to why. I'm still thinking that we are going to see the game at the end of December, and they're going to start building.”

    Zach Minney @ Cornerstone discussion — Speculation about next Stern flagship game announcement timing

  • “Seth, have those numbers emailed to thepinballshowatgmail.com. I love that Seth Davis came in as like a scapegoat or a punching bag.”

    Zach Minney @ Market analysis section — Light-hearted reference to community blame-shifting toward Stern's Seth Davis

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyZach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonCraig BobbypersonBarrels of FuncompanyKerry HardypersonDutch PinballcompanyLiorpersonSeth Davisperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Godzilla Premium and Stranger Things Premium are highest-demand current Stern games, driving multiple production runs and strategic scheduling

    high · Zach's assessment of production schedule prioritization and decision to build multiple small runs in January

  • ?

    community_signal: Stern implementing home ownership ad campaign across Spike 2 fleet; Kerry Hardy tutorial on disabling ads shows community DIY control expectations

    high · Craig Bobby citing new Buy Home Games ad; Kerry Hardy YouTube video providing settings menu bypass tutorial

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Barrels of Fun continuing minor playfield tweaks post-launch indicates responsive manufacturing and commitment to quality despite new market entry

    high · Craig Bobby noting feedback incorporation from Chicago Expo, Houston Arcade Expo, and Free Play Florida

  • $

    market_signal: Venom sales described as 'not exactly Godzilla sales' and 'not red hot' despite being recent release; suggests uneven performance across new titles

    medium · Zach's comparative assessment of Venom vs. Godzilla/Stranger Things demand in production prioritization discussion

  • $

    market_signal: Stern moved factory inventory from early January to late December, suggesting confidence in Q4 sales and strategic repositioning for 2024 announcements

    high · Official production schedule change confirmed by Zach; enables concurrent announcement and production launch for new cornerstone

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.252

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. Dennis and I bring you the goods in episode 141 of The Pinball Show. We are so confident in our ability to bring you hands down the greatest industry market analysis and information breakdown in pinball that we don't even have to give you the pinball market trends that you so desperately crave. This week we get CB back. We talk adjustments to Stern Pinball's production schedule. We make some bold industry predictions and we chat accessories, unboxings, the Jack Winnery interview, new American pinball information, visiting spooky pinball, feasting with our club members, and a special holiday segment we're calling Thanksgiving that you're not going to want to miss. that makes me smile just thinking about it. All of that and much more coming in faster than the spread of a ship-based foodborne illness, which will make sense later.
1:17
Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show.
1:33
It's pinball with personality. It's Thanksgiving here at the Pinball Show. We're at episode 141 with your host, myself, Zach Minney, and Dennis Creasel. Well, Dennis, are you preparing for Thanksgiving more or the Black Friday mall run that you're about to do post-Thanksgiving? Well, in the words of a famous meme, Zach, why not both? So as I prepare, as I get my stretchiest stretch pants for the Thanksgiving feast that I will consume, I've been waiting, anxiously waiting. Where's my doorbuster deal from flipping out pinball? Oh, no. I thought I'd get a catalog or something. As if the market isn't soft enough.
San Diego Amusements
company
Naps Arcadecompany
Stranger Thingsgame
Godzillagame
Venomgame
Black Knight Sword of Ragegame
Labyrinthgame
Big Lebowskigame
Elvira's House of Horrorsgame
Foo Fightersgame
James Bondgame
The Pinball Showorganization
?

community_signal: Seth Davis becoming community scapegoat for market fluctuations after joining Stern; light-hearted but indicates heightened scrutiny of Stern personnel

low · Zach joking about Seth as 'scapegoat' while acknowledging community blame-shifting; notes Seth 'came in and there was correlation'

  • $

    market_signal: Black Knight Sword of Rage topper rerun at $14.99 suggests strong aftermarket demand for collectible accessories and potential LE machine reissue

    medium · Craig Bobby citing San Diego Amusements inventory; Zach's acknowledgment of rumors about special LE run

  • ?

    product_concern: 22 simultaneous code updates across Spike 2 lineup, with new modes for popular games (Stranger Things, Elvira, Venom) suggesting aggressive content delivery strategy

    high · Craig Bobby's Top Stories citing Stern's official announcement; includes new Buy Home ad campaign

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community market perception shifting; despite 2023 being described as soft market, Q4 holiday sales performing better than expected

    medium · Zach noting last two weeks 'significantly better than prior two weeks'; machines selling 'pretty good right now'

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern shifting from fixed production schedule to demand-responsive manufacturing; scheduling games based on real-time market hotness

    high · Zach explicitly stating 'moving around the schedule a lot based on market right now, like what is hot, what people are wanting'

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Dennis argues 2023 sales success driven by logistics catch-up from pandemic constraints, not demand surge; challenges Zach's sales claim interpretation

    medium · Dennis's explicit statement that supply chain constraint resolution drove perceived sales success, not market demand increase

  • ?

    technology_signal: Insider Connected app development rumored to enable Spike 2 machines; compatibility strategy suggests Stern advancing digital ecosystem integration

    medium · Craig Bobby mentioning rumor about new app 'long overdue'; tied to 22 simultaneous code updates across Spike 2 fleet

    • 2:25
    We can't pay for glossy paper. Oh, dear. Are you having a good week? Yeah. Do you have any special activities scheduled for Thanksgiving, whether it's with family or friends? I mean, I'm going to go see my... Yes, you know, Thanksgiving is the time where I unite my enemies together, and we argue over who's going to make the mashed potatoes and who's forgotten to bring the brown and sweet rolls. That would be a good idea, actually.
    2:54
    That's why that food fight thing is the only reason anyone wants Animal House as a pin. I don't disagree. I bet you that's the only thing they think of. So, anyway, no, I'm going to go down and see my folks, but we don't. I haven't done a big Thanksgiving in a long, like a Thanksgiving that was 10 plus people in a long time. Have you ever baked a turkey?
    3:16
    I have, I don't, I never really thought of it as baking. You make it sound like it's a cookie. Have I ever made a turkey in the oven? Yes. Oh, what the hell would it be? A long time ago. Well, baking makes it sound like we've added, like, leave-in agents and such. We've got to plump that turkey up. I mean, the turkey, we're roasting it. It's like a gingerbread turkey. You have the little gumdrop buttons. If you don't add yeast to the turkey, it says turkey for ants.
    3:48
    I've never baked a turkey. never prepared a turkey. It kind of grosses me out. Similar to the carving out of a pumpkin. I think I'm trying to think. Now I'm hedging. I did a duck once. What? Years ago. Who does a duck and not a turkey? Well, I was in college and it was like, what is this weird thing? I've never tried this before. You know, we're all experimenting in college. And so there were ducks. And I was like, I should try a duck. Wasn't popular. The mallard yields the best smoke.
    4:20
    I just see you holding a duck up, smoking a bowl. Now, okay, so smoking marijuana out of a duck, how did we get here? Dude, it's a turducken. Whoa. I've never made a turkey. I suck at cooking in general. So you make Nicole do it? Yeah, hopefully somebody else helps me out on this one. Well, I was thinking she was having to prep for her bouncer role during Black Friday. She will. I don't know. I think she'll be out there throwing elbows trying to get. No, she's ordered everything from Amazon over the last five months. Like by November, she's in like Christmas chill mode. She's playing music. She's baking. You know, she's got lights out on the front of the house. Now she hired a person. They do the whole light thing. Her son is home from college right now. She's like, she's nesting right now. I know her son. Her son. I don't know who this stranger is. Who is this? She's eating all my food. Yeah. So, yeah, she's already got all of that done. Okay. I usually use Cyber Monday, actually, at this point. Is that still a thing? You know, whether it is or isn't, it quasi is. So normally what I do is I will go and take everyone's lists, because almost everyone has an Amazon list at this point, and I will try and make all the purchasing on Monday. And if I get a savings, I get a savings. If I don't, I don't. I think I saved like eight bucks last year across everyone. So there were a couple items that were on slight discount. But that's what I usually do because, like Nicole, I don't like to be stressed in December. So I take care of it then, and that's it. Other than usually I have a few straggler gifts I have to take care of.
    6:05
    What's on your wish list this year? You had something stupid last year, like a toaster or something. I forget what it was. Yeah. Well, I had something stupid I got for my birthday. It was a fan. It was a shredder. As we say. Spreader. People are really making fun of my Midwestern accent lately. They're being really harsh on me. It's not a Midwestern accent. They're harsh on my chill, dude. It wasn't. It's just incorrectly saying Western. That's all. Well, and instead of saying modern, I go modern. Yeah, modern.
    6:34
    Well, I say the letters so fast. In the Midwest, we say our letters. Well, you're from the Midwest. You know. We say our letters so fast, our vowels get ahead of our consonants. That's how it is. We're basically all Travis Murrays at heart. You mean tour? Travis Murrays? Yeah, I say it's after Joel called him out on that. I got really self-conscious, and so now I always be like tour. It's a tour. No, I'm just like tour. No, you go on tour. So you're not asking for a ceiling fan? No, I got my ceiling fan last year. It's awesome. I don't have it on right now because it's cold. No new watches or nothing?
    7:09
    Well, the problem with most of the watches that I want would be Beyond the price point I would ever ask anyone to buy. So I buy my own watches usually. Except for your lovers.
    7:23
    Ask for gold. I've been meaning to throw a couple of video games on the list, but I haven't seen them come out on Xbox yet. Like the new Alan Wake game. I want to play that because I really like the first one. The new Gollum game. The Gollum's down to $10 at Amazon, but I won't buy it until it's $1. What was the other one you were saying? That new King Kong game. The new King Kong game. Yeah, it's rated even worse than Golem, but I call it my dollar menu. It's not Peter Jackson's. No, I don't think it's based on. Look, the graphics are so bad, if it was based on anything, you would never be able to tell.
    7:57
    So those are so bad, they're bad games, so they go on the dollar menu. If they get down to a dollar, I will buy them, and then I will review them on my other podcast. But $10 is 10 times too much for Golem. Speaking of that, the McRib is back, and that's all I want for Christmas is a McRib. Is it back? It is back. I haven't been to McDonald's in a while. A very sloppy, artificial, rubbery type of way. Yes. I just don't. I'm bothered by how red it is. It doesn't bother me a bit. It's like all the red dyes. I think it's got the dangerous red dye that M&M used to use like in the 60s. That's what worries me. Lead paint red. Look. Lead red. Hey, you've heard about the big lead outbreak in those little kid like apple juice or applesauce pouches, right? I mean, that's what's wrong. It's out there. I have not. It's out there. OK, it's out there.
    8:46
    Asbestos. The lead was in the cinnamon is actually where it was in the cinnamon in the cinnamon. Yeah. Do you think Craig Bobby is going to be out there shopping on Black Friday? Maybe. But I do think he probably felt a little contrite about being paywalled last time. He stepped it up. Yeah. He stepped it up this time. He worked with what he had, and what he had to work with wasn't much. He shook off the rust, and this week's Top Stories with Craig Bobby starts now. Hello and welcome back to the Pinball Show's Top Stories. I'm Craig Bobby. Well, you know it's a slow news cycle when we kick off the Top Stories segment with Pinball Code Update News. unless it's the mother of all code updates, courtesy of Stern Pinball. Yes, earlier this week, the king of all pinball manufacturers released 22 new code updates, covering the majority, if not all, of the Spike 2 series games, which may be a new world record for simultaneous new code updates. Now, while most of the code updates were very minor in nature, Owner of Stranger Things, Elvira's House of Horrors, and Stern's latest Venom title got the special early Thanksgiving Day surprise because their games received actual new modes. Foo Fighters also received a number of new achievements. In addition, all of Stern's Spike 2 games received a new Buy More Games for Your Home ad from Stern designed to entice would-be location-only players to take the next step and, like the Jeffersons, move on up to pinball home ownership. Already a pinball owner and find the new ads annoying to see on your machine's attract mode? Not to worry, a new helpful video courtesy of pinball YouTuber Kerry Hardy shows you how to turn the ad off in your Stern adjustments menu found in setting number 55. Thanks Kerry! Now while it's interesting to see Stern updating all the codes for their machines at the same time rumor has it Stern may also be getting all their Spike 2 machines ready to be compatible with an actual new Insider Connected app that is long overdue.
    11:11
    He's just crazy. And still with Stern Pinball, courtesy of a Nap Arcade news item, it appears that Stern may be going back to the well and rerunning one of their most popular and beloved toppers for the Black Knight Sword of Rage machine. Say what? Yes, the highly collectible and hard to find Knight's Head helmet It seems to be in stock and selling on San Diego Amusements' website for $14.99 US. Presumably Stern is making another run of these highly sought-after toppers, or San Diego Amusements has been lucky enough to find a few of these hard-to-find toppers buried in their Black Knight treasure room. And if that wasn't enough, there are rumblings that much like its recent vaults of their Stranger Things pinball, Stern may also be manufacturing a new special limited edition run of their Black Knight Sword of Rage machine in the near future. SICK! WHAAAAAT? Moving quickly on to pinball manufacturing newcomer Barrels of Fun Pinball, who appears to be continuing to roll more Labyrinth units off their assembly line while they continue to make very minor tweaks to some of their mechs and ramps based on some helpful real-world feedback and playtime they received at the Chicago Expo, Houston Arcade Expo, and this week at the Free Play Florida event. Overall interest and feedback from this new entry into the pinball scene continues to be very high, delighting pinball fans old and new with its fun, dance, magic dance, world under glass, and vintage personality. Speaking of dance, courtesy of various social media posts, Dutch Pinball teased would be buyers with one of its new mods from its upcoming new line of toppers for its Big Lebowski pinball machine designed by modder extraordinaire Lior from The Art of Pinball. This first mod showed a bowling ball sitting on a cracked bathroom floor tile in front of an open toilet with a lit LED bowl. Fans of the movie will understand the reference and all of the other new mods from Dutch will be revealed next week. Well, that's all for this week. Happy Thanksgiving to all and until next time, catch you on the flip side.
    13:21
    Well, thank you, Craig, for doing a real Top Stories. Yeah, nicely done there, Bobby. Now we've got to get into the meat and potatoes, the stern pinballs, production updates. What's Taters? What's Taters, Brad? I've been watching the extended version. Have you seen the extended versions of Lord of the Rings? That's the only version. Other than when I went to the theaters and saw it, I only watched the extended version. Oh, interesting. This is my first time around for the extended version. Oh, okay. I watched Lord of the Rings Extended at least once a year. I highly approve. I like the extra additional details. It tells us more of the story. No, it's, yeah, the editing that was done was very much just to try and contain those very long run times. It wasn't one of those instances, like if you ever watch the extended edition of Commando, where it's like, no. No, I haven't. Okay, well, you don't need to, because all it is is more sort of exposition that was already well integrated into the movie. It's just pointless dialogue. They're actual meaningful things. Christopher Lee is actually in the last film of Lord of the Rings. That was my biggest disappointment when I was going to the theater. I knew he had filmed scenes for Return of the King, and then I went to the theater, and he wasn't there. I'm on two towers right now. Yeah, okay. Well, you'll get to see more of him at the start of Return of the King. To war!
    14:35
    Yeah, so that's what, speaking of Stern Pinball, that's a game that I would like to have that game again.
    14:43
    That would be a fun game. When's Stern going to re-release it? Is that in your production update? No, it's not. They've been jumbling around a little bit here. So like the last couple of weeks since we spoke to you last, listener, we've seen Elvira's Blood Red Kiss special edition games come and go. So those have been shipped out as well as Stranger Things Pro models. They've been going out as well. This week, I thought it was going to be Stranger Things Premium. It still may be, but they have moved up from December the run of Godzilla Premiums. So we've seen those on Factory Friday on social media from Stern Pinball. So Godzilla Premium is on the line and will be shipping out this week. Very good game. So if Godzilla is on the line, that leaves Stranger Things Premium. Now, there was a rumor swirling around the bowls of pin side and social media that the Stranger Things Premium was bumped back to next year because of a parts delay. I can confirm I have not heard of any of that. Okay, I hadn't followed those threads, so this was news to me. Yeah, so it could be true, but they have not officially told dealers that at all. So to my knowledge, the last official update we received was that Stranger Things Premium was end of November kind of thing. So we'll see. Early December then leaves us with Guardians of the Galaxy Pro, that one final build. And then something a little bit different that Stern Pinball is doing, I guess, in this new factory. Maybe it's not based on the factory, new factory. But remember, Dennis, the listener, they would take a two-week inventory where they shut down the factory and do an inventory, kind of update the first two weeks of January of every year. They would do that. Yes, I remember. They've done it forever. Pepperidge Farm remembers as well. Pepperidge Farm and anyone who was around last year remembers. Yes. They are actually going to be doing that the last two weeks of December now. You know, that actually makes more sense to me. I thought so, too, to close out the year. Yeah, I mean, once they're, I mean, you're after the, basically, at this point, the whatever rush they thought they were going to have to build for Christmas is done. Why not? Half the people want to take vacation anyway. And usually, in January, they're trying to crank out productions on a new cornerstone. So it's always been weird to me that they just have this big lull with it. Now, how does that affect things? Does it affect things? I don't know. It might shift some stuff by a couple weeks, but honestly, it probably doesn't impact much. Some of the things that we have seen it do, so we were due for James Bond Premium. They even said initially pros, but James Bond in December, they've pushed that now out officially. The James Bond Premium, pro has already been pushed, but the James Bond Premium pushed out of December into January of 2024 now, alongside two small runs of Godzilla Premium and Stranger Things Premium. that's sort of that's interesting because Godzilla Premium they're doing right now exactly so Godzilla Premium and Stranger Things Premium are the two most recent games in bulk that they're going to be building with the exception of Guardians of the Galaxy Pro but yeah they're building Godzilla Premium a small run in January they're building them now and another small run of Stranger Things Premium in January which makes me think that they're still going to make Stranger Things Premium now. Otherwise, why are they going to say they're doing another small run? I think, if I'm a betting man, I would say that the response to those two games in particular, Godzilla Premium and Stranger Things Premium, probably amongst the highest right now for Stern Pinball. So, they're going to build a lot of them here in November and they're going to, not finish up, but they're going to continue, instead of doing a mid-year 2024 run of these, they're going to say, hey, if people want them now, let's keep building them, and they're going to build those in January.
    18:35
    Now it makes sense. Because they are moving around the schedule a lot based on the market right now, like what is hot, what people are wanting, which is why you're seeing accessories and games pop up that you're like, oh, I didn't see that coming. Yeah, well, it makes sense, especially now that it's not like, oh, well, everything we build is sold immediately, so they're going to need to be a little more strategic. So I won't be surprised if next year we see a lot more shuffling than we even saw this year in the schedule. Possibly. So does that mean the next cornerstone for Stern Pinball will not be seen at the end of December or even in January? You know, I've been skeptical about them showing it in 2023 this whole year. So I don't. I think this is I think they show it possibly to the reveal in January. I'm still holding on to why. I'm still thinking that we are going to see the game at the end of December, and they're going to start building. Okay, so what did they do? They had a big ramp up. Maybe that was changing factories, but they had a big ramp up for Venom. When they announced Venom, it was like in July, but then they didn't start making them until September. It was a big gap there. Yeah, but was it smart to do that? I don't think it was smart. But maybe it's a necessity for some reason. I don't know. Well, it's never a necessity. Well, again, unless licensure things, kind of like what we saw with Pulp Fiction out of CGC, there's not really a need unless they're up against some sort of deadline to do an announcement, unless they're ready to do the build. We saw this happen with Bond, and it was a disaster. And Venom sales, I'm just saying, they're not exactly Godzilla sales. They're not hot, hot right now, no. Yeah, they're not red hot. They're not like blood red kiss hot. Those things are selling. Yeah. I think those are really popular. They are. Thanks to your video. Oh, well, we'll talk about that in a bit. I still think what we may see at December and end of December during that time that they have off. And I think that come January, mid to end of January, you'll start seeing pros on the line. I still think that because they're building so many games right now. even if you're telling me okay well in January Zach we already have James Bond premium we got Godzilla premium we got Stranger Things premium my retort would be okay well they are specifying that the Stranger Things premium run is small that the godzilla premium run is small and i can tell you for a fact that the james bond premium run will be small so if you're not having your inventory thing in january and you've got three games that doesn't even cover three weeks in my opinion i think they knock those out all three of those in two weeks you still got time sure but i just don't see any reason why not hold off until the start of the new year do the cornerstone announcement and do the build in the same month especially now that they now that they're basically doing the inventorying at the end of december like it just i'm not gonna say it looks bad but i think it looks better for them to not put a two-week what what let's let's be honest what the consumers will see it as a two week vacation and put that between your announcement and your build yeah because we know hype is hottest when it is the, what is it, the night is darkest and blackest before the dawn of the new pipe. Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly the quote. That sounded like me trying to quote something. It's just like, allow myself to introduce myself. I think you'll also find this interesting, listener. Dennis, maybe you even find this interesting. Probably not, but go ahead. Thankfully, this is like a premature market trend here. Blow my load right now. Now, the market in the last two weeks, whew, significantly better than the prior two weeks. We're getting close to the holidays. Is this surprising to anyone? So my forecast thus far has been correct. We have been very busy moving machines out right now, Q4 holiday time. So thankfully, we have not seen, because we still have a really soft market, but things are selling. They're selling pretty good right now. So thankfully. Here's the other interesting thing. Now, this is just a prediction, just an assessment based on my knowledge of the industry as a hobbyist and as an authorized dealer for Stern Pinball. I think, and anybody at Stern Pinball, if this is just grossly inaccurate, please let me know, but I'm going to put myself out there. I think 2023, from a sales perspective, has been probably the most successful for Stern Pinball in the last decade. Doesn't that seem crazy? Everybody talking about this. What's your measure? Do you mean number of games they sold or what? Okay. Number of games sold and shipped. I think this has been the most successful year they have had in a decade. That's my bold prediction. And I think it's interesting to a lot of people because everybody heard that 2023 was like the year of the markets crashing and all of that stuff. I mean, Foo Fighters did very, very well in the early part of the year. I think people might be losing a little bit of sight of that. Plus, they're I mean, I'm not you may be right for a variety of reasons. I'm clipping that. But but what I admit, I admit, I'm honest. I'm honest in my Westerns, in my Western modern stuff. I, because there were supply chain constraints that I think, I think if there had not been supply chain issues, 2023 would not have exceeded 2022 or possibly 2021. But that's not the reality. The reality is there were a number of supply chain issues that resulted in Stern not being able to put out enough machines to satisfy demand. People saw everything was sold out. So it feels like that means it was the best year ever. But they may have, just because of logistics, been able to better meet demand this go, and that meant more games being sold. But the bottom line is we'll never know the answer because Stern is a private company, and they do not share that information. So in a way, the discussion is irrelevant. Yeah, well. But you may be right. You'll never know. You're the catch-up. You're right. I just – we were able to get products better than in years past. Well, since you're fond of predictions, let me give you my prediction based off of everything we've seen. 2024 will be a worse year for Stern sales than 2023. Oh, okay. Now, that's an interesting thing because there's a couple of factors in play. One is we don't have that still peak kind of – we were still coming out of the – well, we were already out of the pandemic era. And Foo Fighters, by a lot of people, myself included, was seen as that last hurrah of people buying like everything was going to be in super short supply. But what works against my prediction is Elwynn. The fiery phoenix goat. And I'm aware. So I know I'm actually staking out a pretty bold claim. But again, I'll never be proven wrong because Stern doesn't have the courage to release their numbers. You think reverse psychology is going to work on it? Look, I'm trying my best to get the figures I want.
    26:02
    He's like my seven-year-old. I bet you won't brush your teeth. I forgot that I am doing a podcast with a psychologist who basically, a translation to the listener, just said, Do you think your Pop Psych 101 bullshit is actually going to work on Zach Sharp and crew over at Stern? And the answer is no. I have to try. Someone has to try and get. Let me tell you something about pinball media. They don't try and get any real answers to anything. I'm trying to actually stake out some actual real news here and get you some real meaningful data that would do so much for informing us about the actual state of this hobby. So let me use what limited tools I have in my toolbox. There's enough documentation that I think at some point we will be able to have a very, very clean estimation of Stern production in the future. I really do.
    26:59
    Now that they're just over time, data creates patterns. It just does. So I don't think it's far off. I think if somebody wanted bad enough right now, they could. They could compile an informational set that would get them very, very close to that. But I don't think the hobbyists in this industry can be lazy at times. I don't see that happening, but who knows. I think Seth's going to email us those numbers. Oh, me and Seth are bros. Yeah, that may happen. Seth, have those numbers emailed to thepinballshowatgmail.com. I love that Seth Davis came in as like a scapegoat or a punching bag. The poor guy comes in, and just because he came in and there was a correlation between him coming in and a market fluctuating, everybody blames that poor man for the, oh, you son of a bitch, and they blame him for all of this. Do they? Yes, yes. I must not frequent these dives of scum and villainry that you do.
    28:09
    It has to show us at Hives. Sadly, I have to review everything, and it makes me giggle. It makes me giggle what misinformation is really out there. So that's why we try to bring it. You know what else was cute this week, last couple weeks? You know it's a slow news quarter when you have all these content creators trying to dip their toes into the market discussions. Oh, it's precious. I love it. I really do love it, even if it's not their hidden potatoes. You're saying it in a very bless their hearts sort of way. In a southern, bless their modern hearts. They just, they've, even some of them will try to poke fun at me, but then try to do their own rendition of Market Trends. It's nice. I think that in episode 141 of the Pinball Show, it showcases even more so why we are the standard in market discussion in pinball, and we don't even have to do a pinball Market Trends this episode. That's how strongly I feel about that. Yeah, that's how strongly I feel about that. So everybody else, keep entertaining me. I think it's fun. But you might be on to something. I think that if I'm doing a prediction, not that this is a prediction show, but I think you're on to something in the 2024. I would expand it more to say that 2024 sales-wise as an industry will be down more so than it was in 2023. However, the Stern pinball products that are being released in 2024, I think, significantly surpassed the sales of the new products that came out in 2023. So it's going to be tough to say that they're going to have a worse year because 2024 is going to be a good year for them on new products versus what they had come out in 2023. That's an interesting way to pitch it. Stern's such a large share of the market, though. Do you really think that the market could trend down without them actually selling fewer?
    30:04
    Maybe not from a money standpoint, but from an actual, like, here's the new products that came out. Here's how many units sold versus here's the – I see. You see, I just don't see it. What I will agree, I think we'll both agree on this, that we're going to see fewer new releases in 2024 than we did this year. Sure. But holy crap, this year was just like, that was like a once in a century thing. But it's following my prediction that Stern had their greatest year yet. It's the catch-up year. 2023 is the year of the catch-up. People are actually getting parts, so they're able to build stuff. For many of those companies, a little bit too late. But we'll talk about those companies here in a bit. The rest of the schedule here for Stern Pinball, man, this is like a market analysis within this production update, all within the first 20 minutes of this episode. Well, we didn't show them the polynomials to back our figures. That's for the Patreon members.
    31:01
    January 2024, we've covered. February 2024, we don't know. We don't know. I still think it's going to be the Cornerstone Premium. Maybe the LEs. I'll hedge on that. I'll give you the LEs for February now. But Q2 of 2024, we're going to see the likes still of Foo Fighters Pro, Venom Pro, and Premium. The only change here, Q3 is what we have. But James Bond Pro pushed out of December 2023 into this Q3 position now. Remember, Q4 of 2024 is going to be James Bond Premium. But Q3 now is James Bond Pro, followed with in Q3 Godzilla Pro, Jurassic Park Pro, and Foo Fighters Pro. Q4, Foo Fighters Premium, James Bond Premium, Deadpool Pro, Stranger Things Pro, still scheduled for Q4. And then at some point next year, Star Wars and The Mandalorian. Okay. Stern Pinball Accessories product updates. Rush toppers shipped last week. All right. Now, let me – this is Dennis. This is Dennis Corner. Hey, Dennis. Dennis Corner. No, don't sing it. Don't sing it. All right. Bit to pay royalties. Here's the – and I know we're going to get into it because – and again, I've been totally unplugged. But as you can tell, I've not been doing a very good job keeping up on forum stuff. So I know there's this whole drama thing about some commercial stuff in the Stern Code, and that got touched on by, I think, Craig Bobby earlier. But I don't understand this decision to launch Rush Toppers when you've canceled Rush.
    32:31
    It's like, wow. Well, they've been. It's like, I mean, maybe I shouldn't say anything because there's also the Black Knight Sword of Rage Topper again, another has-been game. I just – there's a very wide gap here. What do they say in the British, like, train or subways? It's like, mind the gap. Mind the gap. Oh, I see, yeah. And it seems like no one minded the gap here, and the gap is massive. I think, yeah. It's like – I mean, okay. I don't know how many people want a Rush Topper anymore. The problem is they – I think out of necessity, they built them because they had back orders. Okay. I think that's – I'm sure there's a logic behind it. I just think it's kind of amusing. But this has been amusing. Probably not amusing for you because you're a distributor. But it's the whole same thing with the expression lighting systems and stuff coming out a year after the game forum did. It's like there's just too much gap here. Thank you. Too many people in this hobby, and you can be mad that they do that. It's not my behavior, but a lot of people just do this. People don't keep their games long enough to wait that long for all these little bits to glitz it up. So they need to close this gap. You can't be putting out stuff two years after the game. It is really tough, yeah, from a distribution standpoint. I am glad you brought it. I agree. It is tough to have a product come out, not get adequate information on, hey, if I ordered this many, when are they coming? No information, no information. You only get a portion. You're like, shit, I've got to these other people that are wanting to buy one. Then you get a list of them. And then once they do come out, once the game is discontinued, then all those people are either A, going somewhere else, dude, or B, I'm not even interested in that anymore. And then you're screwed. You've got inventory that's going to sit, which is why some dealers such as myself, holster your pitchforks, people. That's why we do some of the nonrefundable deposit stuff because we cannot afford to sit on 50 rush toppers when they don't even sell the game anymore. So it is a, I think it's a problem in the system. and one that I hope that they work out because it doesn't make any sense. Completely agree with you. Now, will those toppers sell?
    34:45
    Maybe. I've not even been in this industry long enough to know to say, yeah, everything sells eventually. Because there's some stuff that's still sitting that hasn't sold. You could say that about everything. Hypothetically, everything could sell, but you added the appropriate word, eventually. Yeah, that's a lot of money sitting. There's a time frame on these negotiations. At some point, that item that's sitting there is no longer an asset. It's a lodestone. Oh, absolutely. And then everybody's praising Stern for dropping the MSRP on some of these games. Well, keep in mind that that's not a great thing either because if we continue as dealers to just lose money on stuff, then that is not reinforcement to continue said business model either. I think dealers have become even more cautious, as probably manufacturers to even make some of these products, cautious that, hey, we've got to make sure we don't make too many. Hey, we've got to make sure I don't order too many. I mean, look at some of the, even the recent, I'll be open, the recent Jersey Jack pinball games. You know, I had some inventory there for the last couple of titles. So when the new game Elton John came out, my hesitation was very, very high compared to maybe something like a Stern Pinball. It's just real. I'm just being real. Sure, but I'm also assuming that most of you, maybe not some of those that upstarted, say, during the pandemic specifically, but I would assume, though, most of you would probably have known that it wasn't going to continue like it had been in 2021 and 2022. Sure. that at some point thought would actually be required. Yes, the gap I'm hoping, well, that's what sets the good people from the lazy people. So, yeah, the Rush Toppers, there was a delay there, especially since the game we're assuming has been discontinued. Is this why you've asked me if I wanted Rush Toppers on my wish list? Hey, for Christmas this year, I'm going to give you some expression lighting kits, Rush Toppers and Turtle Toppers. Hope you need them. Oh, turtles. I forgot all about that. Yeah, those are sitting too. So, yeah, we've got some stuff sitting. But, yeah, I wish that they would just manufacture in full what they plan to whenever. And I've voiced this to Stern before, their director of accessories and parts, saying, my recommendation would be don't reveal anything until you have the parts to make however many products you want to make. then communicate that with the dealer distribution network and only sell that many. Initially you can take orders if you want to, just don't take money, put them on a back order kind of thing. And whenever you guys decide to make them again, then reach back out and say, but don't take a surplus of orders now only to piss off your customers later because you're only going to be able to make so many. I mean, it's, I don't know. It seems pretty, I don't want to say common sense, but like seems, you know, manageable, but, uh, you know, everybody's a work in progress. Dennis, everybody's a work in progress. Speaking of, the Black Knight Sword of Rage topper is all the rage. Two years ago. And it's back out. They're going to do another run of that starting this week. They're going to start shipping Sword of Rage toppers.
    38:07
    How much of a, do you think people are wanting that? I mean, it's a really cool topper, and the game is not all that popular. So, no, I don't. We've had some customers reaching out for it, but I didn't know if that would be. Of course, the market is high on that still. So, of course, there's probably some room to sell some. I just don't know how many.
    38:36
    But if Stern can do smaller runs of accessories and stuff, tally-ho. Hell yeah. Now, there was a, I think Nap Arcade was saying he was hearing rumblings of there being a special edition of a Black Knight Sword of Rage game. coming possibly in the future for the life of me i don't see that how why what no really i hope i'm not saying i'm not saying just because steve's gone from the company that they wouldn't run it again i don't think that would be the factor but i i don't think there's enough demand to touch that game. I don't see it. November to December, Stranger Things accessories hopefully here. December Godzilla topper. And Q1 of 2024 is going to be Iron Maiden toppers.
    39:26
    Do you see this new Stern Pinball Holiday promotion? They're doing more of these, and I think we're going to continue to see that. They're giving away a free Jurassic Park player mat with the purchase of a Jurassic Park Pro Premium or 30th Anniversary Edition game from now until the end of the year. No, I had not seen that. Yeah, same goes for Foo Fighters. They're doing a promotional banner free for anyone purchasing a Foo Fighters Pro or Premium Machine from now until the end of the year. So get your orders in. Everybody wants those banners. Boom, Foo Fighters, you can get one now. And you know, Dennis, it's a slow news period in pinball when media create content to complain about Stern Pinball Code Updates or them having promotional videos. Well, talking about code updates is like the most boring thing anyone could ever do. Man, man, just some click-baity stuff out there. come on guys drum up something more interesting than that who first off there are people on pin side on social media outlets there are people discussing in pinball their outrage their anger associated with the new updates for stern having a promo playing in the attract mode have you heard of this this hatred that people are having i saw i did how do i turn it all things about it a couple things about it uh on some of my discord channels but i haven't i didn't dive into any of it because i haven't i haven't actually turned on my two games that i suppose will now have this this week so i've not downloaded these new promo videos listener who really gives a shit about a promo playing in the attract mode of your stern game. You cannot tell me you actually care about this. Please, and if you do care about this, sit yourself down, have a nice drink, watch something on Netflix, and realize there are more important things to give shits about than this. This is what mama would call a rat's ass. Not giving a rat's ass about this, or a cat's ass, or any other animals ass about this it was so much so much worse that promo video than what the the 14 high score screens that pop up oh there are a lot of high scores it's gotten a little it's gotten a little silly right like spinner champ that does not offend me but fucking a promo video showing other games that stern makes how fucking dare they chill out guys who cares but then whenever they see it on their Data East game Tales from the Crypt I was going to say they did this back in the day People love it I remember Data East Jurassic Park and it kept telling me about the upcoming Last Action Hero I love the discussions. Here's how you properly go to turn it on. Oh, who cares? There is a new code on all Stern games, though, the code giving, code Thanksgiving from Stern. Most of them were just updating the node board systems and that promo video and stuff. There's little things here and there. There were a couple of games that did get some girth there on their updates, such as Stranger Things. It got a Demogorgon challenge mode. Foo Fighters were at .99. We're getting close to 1.0 on that game. It received some Insider-connected achievements. Elvira got a new mode altogether in the house. And Venom, which is at .94, gets its final wizard mode and a null challenge mode, as well as XP tweakage. which, well, XP tweakage, I think is making it even more difficult to build up your characters for Venom, which the more difficult, the more long-lasting the game will be. So I think it's a good idea. Elsewhere in Stern Pinball news, Jim Jefferies, very famous comedian, talked pinball and proved his fandom with a quiz that he took on his I Don't Know About That podcast. I wasn't familiar with the podcast, but went and checked it out. Is he the Australian comic? Yeah, he's the Australian. Has the – his claim to fame was that brothel joke, right? Yeah, I think it's Dr. Jones' favorite. Okay, I've seen his act. He's very funny. He's one of the best out there. Okay, I didn't know he was still – I mean, he wasn't old at the time. I just – it's been years since I actually saw his routine. Yeah, he's been in comedy for a long, long time. He has a podcast as well as doing the show bits and Netflix series and stuff. But he is a huge fan of pinball. I didn't realize that. Okay, interesting. So he takes quizzes on things that he – I don't know about that. and he knew a lot. They were also joined with Stern Pinball Marketing Director Zach Sharp and while he got a lot of the questions wrong, like you could tell, he was like a newbie pin side. Like he knew a lot of his shit and it was nice to see and that's a big reach for pinball, having Jim Jeffries as an ambassador. So don't fuck it up, Jim. Come on.
    44:07
    Oh, speaking of not fucking it up, the unboxing. Have you witnessed and experienced the unboxing yet? No. I made reference to your video because I knew it came out because you're straight down the middle thread. I may know it was your flipping out thread on Pinside. It had a lot of posts, so I read that, but I hadn't actually seen the link recommended to me on my YouTube yet, so I haven't watched it. Nellie once said, it's getting hot in here, so take off all your clothes. The unboxing of Elvira's Blood Red Kiss was done by straight down the middle and flipping out pinball. Myself, we did, Nicole and I got to work with Nicole, my wife. We've got to film an unboxing of the very special Elvira's Blood Red Kiss. I won't give it away for you, listener, if you haven't watched it yet, or Dennis, if you haven't watched it yet. It's two minutes. I can only last two minutes for that video. Check it out. It's a lot of fun. It's creating a lot of chatter. And just think to yourself, once you realize, what the fuck did I just see? Think to yourself, what is Elvira? Elvira is two things mostly. That theme is sexy, and that theme is funny. Right? Would you agree on that? Yeah. And funny. Well, that was always her whole gimmick. That was her shtick. And it was very shticky, too, right? Yeah.
    45:25
    So things got a little shticky. Oh, no, I think I just played into something about the video, didn't I? Go check it out. Oh, God. Jersey Jack pinball in the news. Toy Story accessories are starting to ship.
    45:39
    Yay. You mean Toy Story 4. Toy Story 4 accessories starting to ship. So you'll see some Art Blades and Toppers. So no Slinky Dog. Sorry, guys. I guess you get Forky or whatever it was called. And the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. They've been on a roll lately. They had Jack Ranieri, the founder of Jersey Jack Pinball. They interviewed him on their podcast. Did you get a chance to listen to that yet? I have not heard this one yet. So I'll fill you in on a couple of tidbits. Good, because otherwise I was going to be absolutely worthless to you in this discussion. I always love listening to the Loser Kids. Always got to check them out. I'm working through there. I want to take my time through the Larry DeMar thing. Oh, no, that one's really good. I did that like all in one go. It was really good. Listen to that now. So Jack Guarneri is on there. He described himself as being risk averse. These are like the knockout points that made me go, ah, ooh. He described himself as risk aversive regarding the risk of choosing Elton John as a pinball theme. Risk aversive. I don't understand. Okay. I don't understand why he would say that. In other words, he's saying, you know, they asked him, wasn't it a risk going Elton John? He said, you know what? I've been around long enough. I'm kind of risk aversive. I don't worry about that kind of stuff. I just shoot from the hip kind of thing. Oh, okay. So he didn't mean he was risk adverse. Okay. Yes. Maybe I'm saying. One who avoids risk. No, he says he just doesn't. He's a risk taker. He takes risk. He doesn't care. I'm a risk taker. Yeah. Yeah, he doesn't care. He talked about Steve Ritchie coming aboard. He said, Steve Ritchie came over ready to work on a game, not necessarily Elton John specifically. Oh, what a shock. They asked him, like, did Steve know he was doing Elton John when he came over? You mean I'm doing Tiny Dancer? Yeah.
    47:29
    I mean, he did do Elvis for Stern, but I don't know if he wanted that one either. I'm going to read this quote because I found it a nice, interesting way of putting it. Quote, when we handed Steve Elton John, at first he's looking for some high-power car or jet fighter or some kind of rocket ship or some kind of wacky title like that. I didn't have that for him. Next up was Elton John. And, you know, he said, really? And we said, yeah. And he said, okay, I'll get into it. and he did so when asked about what steve richie thought about elton john there's your quote okay uh i just that's funny but i was just going to opine uh you know in my opinion uh high-powered cars jet fighters and rocket ships are not wacky titles they are oh i don't know what people want he said really he said yeah he said okay i'll get into it but then it was confusing because then he described not being able to have a, some kind of, like it was a saying like not, not wanting a vegan in the kitchen cooking a steak because suggesting like Steve liked what I was confused because it sounded like he put the vegan in the kitchen cooking a steak. But right. So that would suggest that Steve liked what he was cooking, which was Elton John. It was, it was confusing. I don't know what, It all sounded good. It felt good when you're hearing it. Gosh, now I wish I had played this ahead of time so I'd have... I don't think I'd have processed it any easier than what you're trying to summarize. They were talking about different flipper strength. Because everybody's like, why does Elton John play so much better? Was it Steve Ritchie? Are they using different mechanisms that he brought over from Stern? Like, what is going on? He brought a box of Stern's coils. What is going on? It would be awful. Here you guys go. You need this. When – Flip better. They're just like, we have to limit the CE run because that's how many coils he snuck out of logistics.
    49:42
    There's a node board. We can't get more of these guys. Play better. When speaking of the different flipper strengths and feel on the Ritchie game, Jack suggested that all of the games are capable of that if going into the system and increasing the coil strength. uh wouldn't have people figure that out by now that was true i think so what do i know i don't know a toy story four so i can't here's my guess i don't know what it is but my guess based on different conversations that i've had in the past with people who do create pinball machines or who code some of the greatest pinball machines ever is that stern and jersey jack typically use two different coil systems for their flippers i don't know if anybody knows this everybody's always asked but i'm here to talk to i'm not going to say who specifically told me this, but let's just say it's somebody I very much trust in having some type of idea behind this. They said that Pat Lawler in particular liked an underpowered coil. Like Bally Williams. He did that in Bally Williams. He used a certain type of coil power. Not power, but a certain type of coil because all coils create different power limits and boundaries. And they kind of adopted that a lot at Jersey Jack Pinball. so much so that in the recent releases they have upgraded some consistencies in software to make the power more consistent, et cetera. But I don't know if Steve changed it because I was told by that person, wait until Steve, this is probably two years ago, right, when Steve joined. They said wait until Steve goes over there. It won't flip like their games have flipped. I can assure you that. So I don't know if he's maybe using a higher-powered coil, and that helps. Or, as Jack is mentioning, no difference at all. You can change it in the menu system. Well, if you have, I mean, you probably don't have an Elton John yet. No, I don't. Okay. Once you do, just look at the coil number on the wrapper and compare it to your Toy Story 4 or whatever. Scott was saying a little correction here on the Loser Kid podcast. Scott said that they, he said this on a previous episode too, Scott. You said that they dropped the price of this new game. Oh, they didn't drop any prices. Yeah, that's why I was like, no, they haven't dropped any of the game. Now, Jack didn't clear them up. Then Scott asked Jack about what to expect from JJP games that have a higher price than other companies' games. So Jack talked about the current market, talked about his enjoyment of, like, writing utensils. We didn't know that. Jack Ranieri likes the hobby of writing utensils. Oh, okay. So he's like Mont Blanc. Yeah. I'm a Mont Blanc pen. It's not my – I use a Bic. Oh, okay. But I have one here on the desk. So it was nice to hear. I always like hearing the hobbies of other people in the industry and friendly stuff. Yeah, that's a niche hobby. Yeah. Oh, there are a lot of people into it, though. He was kind of equating pinball today. He was talking about the current market and the market of pens. Sorry, I called it a pen, a writing utensil. His enjoyment of that. He said even, you know, they're really expensive. Even if he's writing with an expensive pen, it's holding a $5 ink cartridge. So his spouse would tease him about that. So he was just equating that, I found interesting. He did also confirm that Guns N' Roses is JJP's best-selling game to date. I don't think that'll surprise too many people, though. Though, you know, Wizard of Oz had such a long run, I could see where there could be some debate between those two. I thought it still might be that, but he was here to confirm it. Jack also said that there are three games in development right now. and they have three designers, so you can kind of... That makes sense, yeah. Josh asked Jack about the cam and cow statement. Remember the cam and cow statement that Jersey Jack Pinball has the Harry Potter license? I forgot all about that. Yeah. Well, Pepperidge Farm remembers. That's too now. Yeah, but whatever those little Danish cookies for Christmas that I like, they don't remember. Oh. They just remember to put lots of sugar on the rectangle ones, which are... The rectangle ones are the best. Do you remember Lorna Dunes? lorna don don dunes no i don't but when you say dune i just think about arrakis and how i was supposed to have the second dune movie out this year but they pushed it back where are you at there 2024 timothy chalamont being willie wonka what sort of crap is that that looks like horse shit oh i won't see that and i'm a big so cam and cal the go back to the sand the Kamenka statement. What's Jack think about that? He said, quote, it's no secret that a lot of people want the license, try to get the license, and the rumor about what J.K. Rowling believes pinball is and all that stuff. I only know what you guys know about what's been out there in the public and what's been said, so I don't really have anything to add to it.
    54:32
    Okay. Not in the plan of the company to rerun games either. Not surprised. Not in the plan. So too much that they are working on and in future games to turn back and to do any remakes. Can't go back. Got to go forward to go back.
    54:48
    That's interesting. Sorry, Pirates fans. I wouldn't take too much of that because push comes to shove. If they could remake games and they know they could sell games, they would. It's just business. Absolutely. But I think actually the strategy is the right strategy in most instances. Sure. It's just the amount of this – you don't want to fall for the – well, the meme would be it's Morbin time. Are you familiar with Morbius? Yes. All right. I never saw it. I'm assuming you didn't either because you still seem to have a will to live. I've not. So – but just as a quick summary for the audience in terms of this meme because I think it's somewhat relevant is that movie came out into theaters. It did terrible. but then the internet started making fun of it and talking about it and be doing this whole it's morbid time and and playing it up so much so that the studio was like wait a moment there's demand for this let's put it back in the theater where it did even worse and and so you see with pinball when you look back generally speaking i don't think we know of any instance well we've seen games get a second wind like stranger things for example uh guardians to an extent uh So it's never necessary, unless you've got the ability already. The idea is, are you really going to sell more, though, the second? You'll sell more units, but will you sell more than the first time you sold them? Because then you're asking yourself, should I just go ahead and go to the next game, which doesn't have any taint to it. Oh, you've watched my video.
    56:26
    I have not watched your video, and now I'm regretting all of my word choices. I'm just going to go back to modern. I think there's only a couple of occasions that we could even argue that that could have happened. I would say maybe Medieval Madness, but one could argue it's a different game entirely, or Attack from Mars.
    56:46
    Sure. No, there will be times where going back is the right answer. And in fact, I would have said for Jersey Jack, it was the right answer to have gone back and run pirates within the first year of them ending pirates. But that ship has sailed. I might be on your boat there, so to speak. Because if they did... Poseidon will look at you, so don't you ever forget. If you think about it, if you've got three new titles coming, I can... It's just... I could be wrong. But it feels like the bill of materials may be different now at Jersey Jack. Maybe the margins are better for them on newer games than would be even twice the sales with a BOM of Pirates. Does that make sense?
    57:29
    Sure. Maybe. Honestly, I like the licensing cost. You know, I can't fathom them selling pirates for any less than they're selling Elton John for.
    57:39
    Absolutely. Yeah, that will be a factor that people will contemplate if they were to see it.
    57:45
    And, you know, Jack has noted that he's risk whatever the opposite of adverse or whatever he was trying to say. So, you know, that's the one thing is, I mean, I don't know if he's going to finally find a theme that's not risky but actually good. He did say that they're close to selling out of their Elton John CE, so maybe that was a good thing.
    58:10
    Sure. Okay. The deal is, I think they have a bright future. I know the last couple have been big ol' swings for the fence whether they've connected on those balls or not is up to you but I think you have no choice but to hit home runs on some of the stuff that they may have in the future might be playing wiffle ball here maybe not hell I don't know let's talk about spooky pinball what are they doing are they swinging for the fences well I know myself and Greg Bone from Straight Down the Middle visited Bugs Scream and Stream nearly two weeks ago. You didn't tune in for that, of course. Whatever. No, I did not. We visited the Spooky Gang. It's the first time we've been up there. It was a lot of fun. Well, I'm glad it was a big deal for you. Look, we discussed on that stream all kinds of stuff. You have to go back and watch it. No, I don't think so. We discussed themes that we selfishly would love for pinball but that no company would ever make. Mine were like DuckTales. Nobody's going to make that. Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, which they thought was crazy. I think there might be. That's actually, I've had a sneak peek at your list here. That one is absolutely the worst one you have as a suggestion. See, I think it might work. No, it would not. Oh. It would not. Message us on Facebook, YouTube, e-mails. Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, I think it might work. No, it's like Sesame Street. It's just, it's not appropriate for pinball. Oh, I think it's so cool. But, all right. What about Titanic with Leo?
    59:50
    Yeah, actually, that would have been a... I'm a little surprised they never did that back when the movie came out, actually. Maybe they couldn't get the rights or something. I don't know. Yeah, no, that one would have been good, but it's really tragic. Do you think people will be able to handle all the tragedy? Yeah, absolutely. It's far enough removed. We're good. Okay. We're good. Speed? Yes. That would have been an excellent one.
    60:16
    I'm just mad. Just trying to imagine the bus toy going all the way around the pin. That would be what would make it cool. And my personal favorite to make someday. This is one that I think if I ever get the gift of creating pinball and designing pinball, I will make it. It's Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Licensing nightmare, but yes. It could never happen. It would. But yeah, no, that one would work. Yeah. Oh, so beautiful. Yeah, see, most of yours are fine. DuckTales is fine, too. Mr. Rogers is a miss. Total miss, though. No one wants that. What about Mr. Rogers on a bus with a bomb on it?
    60:50
    He'd just be friendly, put his loafers on. I just remember he takes off his shoes and there's the bomb in the shoe. That's right. And it was him all along why we have to go through security at the airport now. Well, shit. Seems to me, children, that I've got a bomb strapped to my shoe. Oh, on the most recent Screamin' stream this past week, Knap Arcade reporting that Christopher Franchi art is on the upcoming Spooky Pinball title. And he said probably the next game, too. Well, Nappy knows something. He's had a couple games this year, and the art's been widely praised, both for Galactic Tank Force and Elton John. Nobody has cramped on Franchi's art yet. Well, he's not bad at art, so that would... I mean, that would... you'd have to do a bad job. You know what I find interesting, though? I think that Zombie Yeti has got more shit than Franchi has. Well, he has more games out. So some of it is volume. Some of it is volume. So people are going to compare his work to his other pieces of work. And that's going to happen with Franchi pieces as well. We kind of got saturated with Zombie Yeti. A lot of people are more than happy to be saturated with it too. Absolutely. Me. Spooky also gave away a prototype part from their next game to a viewer, but they didn't show it on the stream.
    62:05
    They also sent one to Kerry Hardy, a part, and he showed it. It looked, I'm not even going to describe what it looks like. Yeah, don't. This is an audio medium. It doesn't work. It's a part. Nobody cares. So, Zach, why were you up there anyway? Well, we were, Greg and I were just, you know, visiting. I'm going to try to take a page from the Jack Winnaries of the world. It's no secret that a lot of people wanted to go up there, tried to go up there. You know, the rumor about what they're working on and all that stuff. Aren't they already snowed in up there now? Dennis, I only know what you know and what you guys know about what they're working on and what's been said. So I don't really have anything else to add to that. Okay. American Pinball, I can add a lot. GT Air of Signature Editions.
    62:53
    Get your ice cream ready bitches It coming It shipping this week They shipping When is the third version of the Legends of Valhalla coming out Lenticular. When they redefined the tiers and added that third tier, the middle tier, and they were supposed to because of all this demand. Yeah, Dave Figg said on a recent video interview from Pernap Arcade, from Steve Cummings, one of their AP sales, by a video that was done by 904 Pinball Zine. And I'm so sick of all these references that they sold out of their Legends of Valhalla LE machines, and they may make more classic editions in 2025. But what about the middle edition? I forget the names. I don't remember either. I don't remember. All I know is GTF signatures are finally shipping. That's all I know. Okay. Well, I know a lot more that we will discuss in our special Patreon content. Oh, okay. Yeah, but more to that to come. Also, Dutch Pinball Museum posted a video on YouTube of a factory tour that they took with Dave Fix there. And Dave told them things such as they want to produce 300 GTFs by the end of the year.
    64:03
    Okay. And American Pinball uses the same cabinet manufacturers, JJP. All right. That's cool. AP claims to have over 200 orders for Houdini still. Wow. Which are being built now. Hmm. Ah, 200. Wow, that's a huge number. Do you think they've sold 200 GTS?
    64:26
    Well, they might have 200 orders. They have 100 orders? So five years later, after Houdini was developed and shipped, there's still 200 orders? I mean, it has legs. It sure does. It's the Stranger Things of American Pinball? By ratio, I've got five ordered for the last three years. Well, you're not their biggest distributor, though, are you? No.
    64:59
    I don't know. I don't think so. I hope not. I used to round up to the nearest hundred also. I don't know. I didn't. I would tell them if you don't have 200 orders of Houdini, if you don't, then don't build those. Let's not build those, guys. So we were talking about that 904 Pinball zine interview with Steve Cummings, who's the AP sales person, per NAPRK. That's where I found this. GTF Deluxe is going to run again after GTF LE and SCs and Houdinis. So the Deluxe version of GTF is coming. How many hundred of those do you think are on order? Oh, I don't know. Just the Deluxe, not the other flavors.
    65:44
    A hundred maybe? I don't know. Two hundred you said? Okay. No, I don't think. I don't think 100. Yeah, probably 100. Maybe 400. They've shipped some already. Their next game is coming likely late January into February. Oh, wow.
    66:01
    That's soon. And I didn't know this. Their next three games are original themes. What? Oh, my God. What? Their next not one, not two, but three. No, I thought the next game was supposed to be licensed. I don't know that I actually heard that anywhere. I just assumed. I don't know. The next three. Talk about risk of murder in Western.
    66:26
    That is, that's not right. That's not right. Oh, my God. That's not right. Let's hope that's not right. Dave Fixer said, I'm not going to double down. I'm going to triple down. If this is the decision, it's just plain wrong. It's just wrong. It's just plain wrong. This is not the right. This is not a right decision.
    66:49
    Fly, you fools. Yeah. Oh, so a prototype of their next machine is being shipped out now to the sound designer to add music to the game.
    67:01
    Did you hear? The next three games are original themes. Oh, my God. I don't know if he's saying maybe after that game. I don't know. What? There is no after if they do three original. Jason, we need clarification. What is it? What's going on? Haggis Pinball is on track to complete their Fathom Revisited games. Do you know that? By the end of the year. They're setting up the line for Centaur starting December. Okay. I mean, I hadn't heard an update from a couple months ago where that was the plan. So it sounds like it's on course. Yep. I think they shipped the remainder of our Fathom Mermaid editions this week or last week. So they're on a plane somewhere.
    67:40
    That was my plane. Okay. I thought you were sighing over the three original themes. You know what? No, I don't. In private chat with me and David Dennis, you poo-pooed my love for cruises, calling them filthy mongrels of a vacation and germ-spreading vessels, but you threw no shade to those venturing into an airplane.
    68:10
    Where's the pan and shame? Airplanes have filters on the recycled air. Ships don't have filters. They have open air. I talked to you about the food poisoning No one eats airplane food Peanuts?
    68:26
    They don't give those out anymore Because of nut allergies They give you pretzels And then they're like, thirsty aren't you? That'll be $4 No! Yes, that's what they do now So no one consumes stuff on planes Because it's extra money So they're on track to start Centaur's this December Speaking of newer companies, Barrels of Fun They continue to slowly ship Labyrinth They still don't have that schedule. So for the 10 people every day that email me asking for a schedule update, believe me, I'm about to drive down to Houston myself. I'll probably fly or take a cruise ship down there. I could probably take it all the way around. But, no, they don't have a schedule for who's getting what, when, where. I think it's just those early first 20 that they put on the website kind of thing. They did go to the Houston Arcade Expo, another huge, big old hit for Labyrinth there. and I think they're at the Dutch Open this week. The game is still continuing to get sales and everything. They did it right. They're even making some upgrades and adjustments to the game after the feedback they've been receiving from some of the shows, Joel's Dreams, some of the stuff like that. And they've already started sending those kits out for said fixes. So that's a good sign. I like that. But they've always said that they're going to ramp up in January. So they're working out all of the stuff right now. I want to say thank you to people. It's Thanksgiving. It's that time of the year. We have to say thank you. But first, before we thank anybody else, we've got to thank our Screaming Go Club members.
    69:52
    Yes, we must thank them. You know, I think what would be fun this week, everybody's got nicknames, right? Like Bobcat. Thank you, Bobcat.
    70:03
    Thanksgiving foods. There's so many of them. What? But if we pegged Rodney with a Thanksgiving food, besides maybe it has to do with a bobcat, what would it be? Yes, because there's so many staples that have to do with it.
    70:19
    Rodney would be, he feels like the corn to me. Okay. A staple. Okay, I did consider the corn for him. Yeah. You know, one that might hurt on its way out, but you're always happy it's there. Sure. I don't know what that means. I'm sorry, Rodney. Oh, shoot that fucker! The corn. Enjoy. And thank you for the support. Thank you, Jabs. The Jablonski. The Steve. The bumblebee! Oh, thank you for the support. You see, he could have been corn, too, because of the yellow bumblebee. He could have. But, I mean, what's the, like, dish when people bring it out, they scream for it? Like, you would scream for bumblebee. The pie? Like the pumpkin pie? Pumpkin pie! The bumblebee! I assumed you were a pumpkin pie person. I am very myself. or what I usually get for Thanksgiving is actually French silk. At least you didn't call it pecan. Ugh, those people. I have a story behind that. I won't share it on this episode, but remind me sometime, and I'll share you the pecan story. Let's do the Patreon. We'll give it to the Patreon people. I don't know if they want it. So Jablonski and Michael Bay are both pumpkin pie people. Yes. Swoop low with that telephoto. Shoot that pumpkin pie. The panther. The panther coming in. Rob. What's the sexiest Thanksgiving food?
    71:37
    It's not the yam. No, no, absolutely not. Is it the turkey? No, the turkey is not sexy. It's more, you've got to get it done. I mean, it's like the center, you know, it's kind of what brings the whole thing together. Maybe the mashed potatoes are what most people get excited about. There's nothing sexy about a mashed potato. With gravy. No, mashed potato face, no, no. What about the cornucopia? That's a very sexy ornament. That is just an art. No one actually has that on their table. You know what? I bet Rob does. And he's the cornucopia. Nicely done, Rob. The cornucopia.
    72:13
    I'm going to have one at my family's dinner. I bet Nicole probably has one, so I'm not surprised. Colin, the kineticist, or should we say the new owner of Twip? Did you see this? I did, yes. This week in pinball now, owned by Colin. Nicely done, Colin. He's putting a lot on his hands. So I think he's the bowl of black olives that the kids stick on all their fingers. Who in the hell has a bowl of black olives on Thanksgiving? That's what we do on Thanksgiving. That's a thing? Yep. Every year we have a bowl of black olives. All right, Colin, at the Creasel Household, you are the bowl of black olives, my friend. Yep. And there's only one little olive, and it's precious because it's your baby, Colin. That's the only one that doesn't rip because you put it on the pinky. Me and David Bowie want that, baby.
    73:00
    All right. What about the falcon? Frankie. What's an annoying sounding when somebody eats it at the table? What sounds annoying like that falcon Thanksgiving?
    73:15
    I want to say. Well, the cranberry sauce is annoying. Okay. It is. It's a bit much, isn't it? It's like. Yeah. Frank, you are the cranberry sauce of this show. We need you. Somebody likes you.
    73:31
    The sad thing is, like, Frank is the most kindest, gentlest, sweet person ever. I'm sorry, Frank, but go with it. He probably thought he was a shoo-in to be the turkey since it's a bird. He thought. He thought wrong. Yeah, he did think wrong. I don't know which way we're going to go with the shaker motor, Dave. Which way are we going to go with Dave? Something, something. Maybe, do you think Dave is the giblets? Yeah, we haven't done the stuffing. We haven't done the fruit salad or the Waldorf salad. We haven't done the green bean casserole. We haven't done... The dressing?
    74:06
    Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I call it stuffing. So that's what I said. Yeah, yeah. The bread? The bread of the bunch? The bread. The brown and serve rolls. The what? We always do brown and serve rolls. Oh, yeah. Those are good. The mashed potatoes with gravy are nothing without the roll. Do you make little sandwiches with your roll? No, I don't. With a mash pit? Okay, that's how I do it. The ham. What about the ham? There's a ham. That's true. The ham. We'll give him the rolls. Because he rocks with his shaker and he rolls with his rolls. There's the association there. That's pretty clever. Rock and roll there, Dave. He's still probably sad that he thought he was going to get to be the ham and then you just snatched it from him. Nope. What about Joe Fox? What does the fox eat?
    74:51
    He's a fruit salad. He gets fruit salad. he's the fruit cake for Christmas yeah Joe Fox you're the fruit salad is one of my favorites it's a mixture of greatness how's your fruit salad Zach do you do we used to do two types we used to do fruit salad and then Waldorf salad are you familiar with the two it sounds like a hotel fruit salad is the one with the fruit and you mix it in with whipped cream that's normally what we do at this point Waldorf salad uses mayonnaise oh god that's horrible but only me and my mom would. Yeah, it's basically the exact same thing, but it's got like walnuts in it. And then you do like, it's like a mayonnaise. So, uh, but yeah, we, we discontinued it because I think only my mom and myself would eat that. So how does fruit sweet taste good with sour mayonnaise? I think, I think it's like Chinese sweet and sour. That's how it works. It's that concept. Okay. General channel. Okay. Well, that works. I kind of like that. So yeah. Fruit, fruit cake, fruit cake, Fox. Not a fruitcake, the fruit salad. No one eats fruitcake for Thanksgiving. That would be crazy. That's a Christmas episode. Thank you, Joe. What about the bell?
    76:02
    The bell has rung for Charlie. Charlie would be... I'm afraid he's the yams. He up? He got the yams? Yeah. Somebody's got to be the yam. Someone's going to get stuck with it.
    76:15
    Not that we're stuck with you, Charlie, but you're totally yam material. I yam what I yam. Yeah. Popeye. No, don't promote that game. What about the dude? There's only one dude. Not on the rug, man. What's the most chill food on the table? Well, sometimes it's a little burnt, if you know what I mean. I think the dude, Will, has got to be the turkey.
    76:41
    Sometimes chilled, sometimes burnt. Not always right. But often smoked. Often smoked, man. Smoked, burnt. He is the turkey. Mind if I lie to Jay?
    76:55
    William, the chill dude. A reminder, for the next pinball show live hangout, for those part of the Screaming Goat Club and the Nordman Club levels on Patreon, it's November 22nd, 8 p.m. Central. That's this Wednesday night. Yes. Come one, come all. We always have fun there. We always have new people popping in, too. So if you haven't signed up yet or if you're an official member and you want to upgrade to the Nordman level or the Screaming Goat Club level, you can do so by going to patreon.com slash the pinball show. Help support the show. Make Dennis nice smile. Learn all kinds of stuff. Get some swag. Choose topics. You can come on the show. There's all kinds of benefits and perks for supporting your favorite pinball podcast. I mean pinball podcast. We bring the goods here, just like the giblets and the yams for Thanksgiving. It's all at the pinball. Oh, and Discord. You can hang out in our Discord channel, too.
    77:53
    And speaking of all of that, they're going to get something exclusive this week. I said at the beginning of the show, we do the market analysis and discussion. We came up with, we are the market in pinball media. But there is no market analysis quite like that of the pinball show, so much so that we are discontinuing for this week pinball market trends and in its place is the exclusive pinball show membership content segment we haven't done a segment in a while this segment we are calling simply thanksgiving where you and i dennis give thanks to some of the things uh in pinball or in life in general but in pinball now to make things interesting this isn't just your hokey i don't care to hear that shit thank yous we're going to give some of those too but we're going to give those with an edge as well so we're going to have plenty of thanks we're also going to have a bit of uh gee thanks you'd see where i'm going with that dennis i get it listener you can you can tune in right now if you sign up at the pinball show you're not going to want to miss this we didn't do gravy did we no we didn't do gravy or taters oh you know what this is the gravy of the show this segment you guys want to go here tune in tune in right now go well listen to the rest show then then tune in all right dennis how do you uh how do you want people to contact you and thank you they can always email eclectic gamers podcast at gmail.com that is the best way to reach out that's really nice they can also email me or you at the pinball show at gmail.com i'll forward it on to dennis as necessary and as needed follow like and subscribe to all of our socials, please. Whether it's Patreon, signing up for the club membership, or email, or Facebook, or YouTube, or TikTok, or Discord, whatever you want to do. Sign up, follow, like, and subscribe. Some of this stuff's free. Also, straight down the middle, go watch that Elvira video if you haven't yet. Follow, like, and subscribe there, as well as support of our sponsor here at the Pinball Show, which is Flippin' Out Pinball.
    80:02
    From toppers or place radios, I've got it figured out. Slippin' out, figured out. When I make a pinball, I think slippin' out. Slippin' out, figured out. When I buy, buy, buy, I buy from slippin' out. Buy, buy, buy! Product showcase this week is James Bond LE. Believe it or not, I got my hand on some games that still knew in box that I don't normally have in stock, including James Bond LE. Got one of those. Got a couple Star Wars Pros. and I got one Godzilla Pro. They're not making that until next year. So snag that before the holiday season here.
    80:39
    Guardians of the Galaxy Pro, we still have December spots available. Venom Pro, I have new and pre-owned as well as new premium and, I think, yeah, I've got a used premium as well and a new LE, get one of those. Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary, I've got a pre-owned one. James Bond Pro Premium, I've got one LE, like I said, and one 60th Anniversary Edition left. Avengers Premium and Pro, Which one are you going to get for Christmas for yourself? Foo Fighters Pro, Premium. Iron Maiden Pro, Premium. Jurassic Park Pro, Premium. Turtles Premium. GTFLE. The Deluxes. You know all about that. Rush Toppers. Avengers Toppers. Cactus Kenyan SE Plus. Fathom Revisited Mermaid. I think I still have a spot, people. They're shipping now. They're on the plane, remember? Hot Wheels Classic. Queen LV. Godfather LE. I don't have a CE anymore. It's gone. We've got a couple Star Wars Home Editions left. Toy Story for L.A.C.E., Ultraman, Led Zeppelin, Alien, Ripley Editions. What do you want? You can have it at FlippinOutPinball.com or email me at Zach, C-A-C-H, at Flipp, the letter N, OutPinball.com. We're also going to be doing a giveaway on our social media, so make sure, FlippinOutPinball, go follow us on Facebook because I think we're doing a November giveaway. And it's easy. It's easy. You just win stuff. Go do it. FlippinOutFriends coming back this week. Joel is back in the USA. And I think he's going to be doing a Flippin' Out with Friends chatting stream talking about all the topics in this industry. Maybe they'll play a game too that everybody will be very loose with the rules and all of that. I would have issues with that. TPN last week. What did we have last week? We only had the Pinball Innovators and Makers podcast. The It's Just Code. Where they go in and talk to Ian Harrower about his project that he's doing on the P3 platform. Yeah, he's doing a bird. Something with the birds.
    82:37
    A bird. Do you bird watch? No, I do not. Stamp collect? No. What are the crappy hobbies? Wow. Why didn't you ask me about my writing utensils?
    82:53
    Mont Blanc. They make watches, too. Remember, it's Thanksgiving time. You're going to sit there. You're going to be with your family. They might start talking about politics. They might start talking about religion. You can be the peacemaker if you're hosting, at least if you own a modern Stern pinball game. Just take them down to your game room. Turn that game on. Let them watch the promos.
    83:18
    Even grandma's like, this is bullshit, Seth Davis. Gary Stern never pulled this bullshit. and always practice safe pinball and before watching that l virus blood red kiss edition unboxing you truly truly better mylar up gravy edition oh no you're so making me not want to watch this what's in the box no
    83:54
    Thank you.