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Episode 59 – Wayne Gillard: Pinball Distributor and Millionaire

Head2Head Pinball·podcast_episode·2h 17m·analyzed·Sep 10, 2018
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 (batch) · $0.025

TL;DR

Wayne Gillard recounts 35 years distributing pinball, rescuing JGP collapse, licensing Williams, and managing supply chains.

Summary

Wayne Gillard, a prominent Australian pinball distributor (Valley Pinball/Mr. Pinball Australia), discusses his 35+ year involvement in the industry, including his pivotal role in rescuing customers affected by the Bumper Action/JGP distributorship collapse in the early 2010s, his distribution partnerships with Jersey Jack, Chicago Gaming, and American Pinball, and his acquisition of Williams/Bally intellectual property (patents, copyrights, source codes) in a landmark deal that enabled him to license Medieval Madness remakes and other classic game reproduction. The conversation reveals the thin margins (8%) in distribution, operator vs. collector dynamics, production constraints on limited editions, and the challenges of managing machines with high complexity and low reliability.

Key Claims

  • Distributor margins on new pinball machines are approximately 8%, with costs including warranty, spare parts, and customer support

    high confidence · Wayne Gillard, discussing profitability of distribution business

  • The Australian exchange rate (70 cents AUD to USD) requires adding ~40% to US pricing before GST, making new machines cost approximately $10,000+ AUD when a US machine is $7,000 USD

    high confidence · Wayne Gillard, explaining pricing structure for Australian market

  • Bumper Action/JGP bankruptcy resulted in customers losing deposits and pre-orders; Wayne's effort recovered approximately 86.5 cents per dollar through consolidation with Jersey Jack

    high confidence · Wayne Gillard, describing post-bankruptcy recovery efforts involving David Steen and others

  • Only approximately 80 Pirates of the Caribbean Oz Down Under limited editions were actually produced, despite being numbered to 250

    high confidence · Wayne Gillard, noting serial numbering discrepancy

  • Wayne distributed over 100 units each of Wizard of Oz, Hobbit, and Dialed In!! for Jersey Jack in Australia; Pirates of the Caribbean pre-orders indicate similar demand levels

    high confidence · Wayne Gillard, detailing sales figures and noting first 40-foot container from JJP shipping that week

  • Chicago Gaming Company produced only 3 remaining unsold Medieval Madness (Remake Standard Edition) machines before pivoting to Monster Bash production in mid-2024

    high confidence · Wayne Gillard, discussing CGC production pipeline and allocation constraints

  • Limited edition remakes (Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars) sell 50-60+ units immediately upon allocation, while standard Jersey Jack titles sell gradually over time

    high confidence · Wayne Gillard, comparing sales patterns between limited editions and standard releases

  • Highway Full Throttle machine was distributed by a competitor after Highway disputed with Wayne's warehouse about ordering quantity; Wayne was later offered distributorship after the fact but declined as Highway was already failing

Notable Quotes

  • “We're making about 8% margin which is not a lot considering you've got to deal with warranty issues, spare parts you've got to ship to people, you're on the phone talking to people with problems.”

    Wayne Gillard @ early in interview — Reveals actual profitability of pinball distribution; contradicts common assumption that distributors make large margins on $13-14k machines

  • “They got back about 86.5 cents in the dollar. But it took hundreds of hours of unpaid labour and work and effort and lots of people involved.”

    Wayne Gillard @ discussing JGP/Bumper Action recovery — Shows community effort to rescue customers from distributor bankruptcy; establishes Wayne's role as industry stabilizer

  • “Unless they change their production runs on our leads of more than a thousand, then we're going to sell out of every remake very quickly.”

    Wayne Gillard @ discussing allocation constraints — Highlights bottleneck: demand for CGC limited editions far exceeds supply; allocation limits prevent scaling

  • “The more you can get the machine out there... Ghostbusters is the biggest one for me, the amount of people that I've had conversations with, they say, ah, I've played Ghostbusters here or there, and I just fell in love with it, and I bought it as my first machine.”

    Ryan C (co-host) @ discussing location play converting to home ownership — Validates operator thesis: location play drives collector home purchases; on-location inventory critical to market growth

  • “The more features it has, the more problems that you will have with that machine. So that tends to put some operators off.”

    Wayne Gillard @ discussing complexity vs. reliability trade-off — Explains why operators prefer simpler machines (Houdini) over feature-rich titles; maintenance cost and downtime impact ROI

  • “It's about 95% there. It's that 5% that, you know, you've got to tweak it and change a few things on it.”

    Wayne Gillard @ discussing Highway Alien Pinball — Characterizes Highway Alien as nearly complete but software/integration issues prevent it from functioning properly

Entities

Wayne GillardpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyChicago Gaming CompanycompanyAmerican PinballcompanyHeighway PinballcompanyPinball Brotherscompany

Signals

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball distribution margins have compressed to ~8% despite retail prices of $13-14k+, due to shipping costs, exchange rates, warranty obligations, and customer support. Australian distributor must maintain local inventory rather than drop-shipping.

    high · Wayne Gillard: 'We're making about 8% margin which is not a lot considering you've got to deal with warranty issues, spare parts you've got to ship to people, you're on the phone talking to people with problems'

  • $

    market_signal: Australian market pricing is approximately 40% higher than US pricing due to exchange rate (AUD 0.70 to USD) and shipping costs; a $7,000 USD machine costs ~$10,000+ AUD before GST.

    high · Wayne Gillard: 'We're at 70 cents today, so you've got to add 40%, it means, from the US dollar. So if something in America is $7,000, well that's $10,000 Australian before our GST plus the shipping'

  • ?

    business_signal: Following Bumper Action/JGP distributor bankruptcy (~$500-600k in losses), Jersey Jack consolidated customer deposits and coordinated refunds, recovering 86.5 cents per dollar through significant unpaid labor effort by industry figures including David Steen. This prevented industry-wide damage in Australia.

    high · Wayne Gillard: 'They actually got back about 86.5 cents in the dollar. But it took hundreds of hours of unpaid labour and work and effort and lots of people involved'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Limited edition remakes (Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars) sell in bulk immediately upon allocation (50-60+ units) due to FOMO, whereas standard Jersey Jack titles sell gradually. Allocation constraints (1,000 units globally for CGC) prevent scaling to meet demand.

    high · Wayne Gillard: 'Everyone wants to get in on a limited edition. So they all order it straight away, whether they want it or not, they order it still... your allocation gets pretty well sold out straight away'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.091

0:00
Music Welcome everybody to the Head to Head Pinball Podcast. This is episode 59 and my name's Martin and with me... It's Ryan C. And we've got a special guest tonight, one of the most controversial and outspoken people in Pinball. You know him as Valley Pinball on Pinside. We know him as Wayne from Mr. Pinball Australia. He distributes Jersie Jack, CGC, American Pinball, Highway Pinball before I went bust. He produces Next Gen Decals and he's here today to talk about what it's like to be in the industry for 35 plus years. Ladies and gentlemen, Wayne Gillard. How are you going, Wayne? How's it going, guys? Very good, Wayne. Thank you very much for coming on. Where's my kangaroo sack?
1:14
It's in the mail. Sure. Everybody else gets one. How are you doing, guys? Yeah, good. I've got one question. My first question for you, Wayne, is this. Is there money to be made being a distributor for pinball?
1:28
Look, you've got to distribute a wide range of products, not just pinball, because the margins on new pinball machines is fairly slim because of the shipping, the poor exchange rate. I mean, we're at 70 cents today, so you've got to add 40%, it means, from the US dollar. So if something in America is $7,000, well that's $10,000 Australian before our GST to have 10% plus the shipping. So it is a lot more expensive selling because we're not drop shipping. We're not just taking an order and emailing the factory and saying drop ship at 200 miles down the road. We're actually 20,000 kilometres away and we've got to actually carry the inventory to drop ship from our warehouse, not from the factory's warehouse. Okay, so then do you enjoy being a distributor for pinball?
2:30
Look, the people you meet are great. I mean, you get the odd person that sort of makes your life hard, of course, because you can't please everybody. People seem to think if you're selling a pinball that's $13,000, $14,000 that you're making $4,000 margin. Well, we're making about 8% margin which is not a lot considering you've got to deal with warranty issues, spare parts you've got to ship to people, you're on the phone talking to people with problems and so on, not just during the warranty period but outside of that period as well. So talk about the companies that you distribute. You kind of took over the JGP distributorship when all that kind of stuff went down and you carried all their products. Was Hobbit doled in and Pirates coming up? Yeah, that's right. I mean, look, that was pretty disastrous what happened back then. I mean, basically, you know, Bumper Action, as you know, which was owned by Delano Rees, which unfortunately is no longer with it. And he retired, sold the business to some reputable businessmen that ended up not being so reputable and ended up going into bankruptcy, owing $500,000 or $600,000. And lots of mums and dads who'd ordered wizard-avised pinball machines and paid deposits and paid in full and all that sort of thing, you know, had the potential of losing a lot of money. But luckily some of that money was paid to Jersie Jack's deposits and he consolidated the deposits that he got and built games and then we took over the distributorship. We took those games and converted them into money and then we took that money and converted it back into the people who lost money. So they actually got back about 86.5 cents in the dollar. But it took hundreds of hours of unpaid labour and work and effort and lots of people involved. David Steen was one in particular that was involved in that. But lots of people got involved to get people back as much money as they could because otherwise it just would have destroyed the industry in Australia. Do you think you can do that for Kevin Kulik and the Dick Lebowski guys? Yes. No, unfortunately there was no people who were selling that game over here. I've got a magic girl though. So what happened with then the, you know, when Jersie Jack then created the Australia, the Down Under edition, what was that about? So what happened of course is most people had ordered the Emerald City editions and there was about 70 of them I believe that Bumper Action had sold. Now when all that disappeared and Bumper actually didn't pay the balances that were owing at the time that they were due to pay for these games, you know, Jersi Jack obviously couldn't wait forever so no doubt that they were sold to other people because there was no balances coming to pay for those games from the distributor. So Jack had created an Oz Down Under limited edition and those games were available to be sold to the Australian market which had a timber apron and pretty much had direct printed cabinet art I mean and are pretty much like the same as what the Emerald City was.

high confidence · Wayne Gillard, recounting distributor conflict and Highway's miscalculation of demand

  • Wayne purchased perpetual, exclusive license to Williams/Bally intellectual property (79 patents, pinball.com website, source codes, CAD files, artwork discs) for approximately $1 million USD around 2005-2006, outbidding other parties including Stern

    high confidence · Wayne Gillard, detailing landmark licensing deal with Williams

  • Illinois Pinball (Gene Cunningham) held only a non-perpetual, non-exclusive replacement parts license; Wayne's license superseded and prevented Williams from issuing further licenses

    high confidence · Wayne Gillard, clarifying relationship with Gene Cunningham and Illinois Pinball licensing hierarchy

  • “The designer in question believes that the machine is a piece of art and it is the best pinball machine ever made by any manufacturer anywhere in the world.”

    Wayne Gillard @ discussing Magic Girl — Critiques designer hubris; Magic Girl is incomplete software-wise despite hardware completion

  • “Here's a million dollars hanging on this line as bait so if you want it, it's there to take but you've got to give me something for it.”

    Wayne Gillard @ describing Williams licensing negotiation — Shows strategic approach to acquiring perpetual Williams/Bally IP license; willingness to commit capital to solve supply problem

  • “The golden rule over here is you either sell Stern or you don't sell anything. So, therefore, the distributors who sell Stern can't sell any other brand.”

    Wayne Gillard @ discussing Australian market exclusivity arrangement — Reveals exclusive distributor agreements in Australian market; explains why Wayne cannot distribute Stern but can distribute everyone else

  • “If that fits within their budget, then The Hobbit is a very popular title and Wizard of Oz as well. But yeah, so I just try and... it's not all about making money and selling them whatever has the most profit.”

    Wayne Gillard @ discussing customer-first sales approach — Contrasts with profit-maximization; customer fit and long-term satisfaction reduces warranty callbacks and support burden

    • Bumper Action
    company
    David Steenperson
    Delano Reesperson
    [name withheld pending review]person
    Gene Cunninghamperson
    Williamscompany
    Illinois Pinballcompany
    Mr. Pinball Australiacompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Next Gen Decalscompany
    Deep Root Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Caesars Entertainmentcompany
    Martinperson
    Ryan Cperson
    Pirates of the Caribbeangame
    The Wizard of Ozgame
    Medieval Madness (remake)game
  • $

    market_signal: Global allocation constraints (e.g., CGC distributes 1,000 limited editions across worldwide distributors) create artificial scarcity that drives rapid sellouts and secondary market appreciation, particularly for numbered editions with production numbers that don't match numbering schemes.

    high · Wayne Gillard: 'Our allocation generally isn't getting any higher. So unless they change their production runs on our leads of more than a thousand, then we're going to sell out of every remake very quickly'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Licensed themes (Wizard of Oz, Hobbit) and recognizable brand names drive family adoption and home purchases due to cinematic familiarity, whereas un-licensed classic games (Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars) rely on historical reputation and player word-of-mouth. Theme is significant factor in first-time buyer conversion.

    high · Wayne Gillard: 'Something like The Hobbit or Wizard of Oz... they've automatically got brand recognition and it's something that they sat in the cinemas and watched'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Machines with extensive features, toys, and mechs (e.g., feature-rich Stern titles) suffer higher failure rates and downtime compared to simpler, more reliable machines (e.g., Houdini). Operators prefer lower maintenance burden even if gameplay depth is reduced.

    high · Wayne Gillard: 'The more features it has, the more problems that you will have with that machine. So that tends to put some operators off. They want a simple machine that they can put on site, is easy to maintain and doesn't break down'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Machines placed at venues (bars, arcades) drive conversion to home purchases; customers play a game at a location (e.g., Ghostbusters), fall in love with it, then purchase for home. High-quality on-location inventory is critical to market growth.

    high · Ryan C: 'The amount of people that I've had conversations with, they say, ah, I've played Ghostbusters here or there, and I just fell in love with it, and I bought it as my first machine'

  • ?

    product_concern: Highway Pinball's Alien Pinball is approximately 95% hardware complete but lacks critical software implementation; machines had bootup failures, flipper losses, and stability issues after v1.1 code update. Community has begun remanufacturing parts (IO boards, motherboards, monitors) as stopgap.

    high · Wayne Gillard: 'Hardware's there, but the software's not... the first code that came out... was quite good, it was quite stable. And then they bought out the 1.1 code and just about every machine on the planet had problems'

  • ?

    product_concern: Magic Girl is hardware-complete but severely lacks software implementation; designer believes it is a masterpiece but machine cannot function properly for gameplay. Only 19 units produced; positioned as museum piece rather than playable machine.

    high · Wayne Gillard: 'The biggest problem is the hard, most of the hard, Hardware's there, but the software's not... there's no software that's been written for it actually to function'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Australian market operates under 'golden rule' where distributors must choose Stern OR other brands; cannot sell both. This creates market segmentation where Wayne (non-Stern distributor) can distribute JJP, CGC, American Pinball, Spooky, etc., but exclusive Stern distributor cannot.

    high · Wayne Gillard: 'The golden rule over here is you either sell Stern or you don't sell anything. So, therefore, the distributors who sell Stern can't sell any other brand'

  • ?

    business_signal: Wayne Gillard acquired perpetual, exclusive license to Williams/Bally intellectual property (~$1M USD, circa 2005) including 79 patents, pinball.com domain, source codes, CAD files, artwork, and remanufacturing rights. This enables Medieval Madness and other Bally remakes. License superseded Illinois Pinball's non-exclusive parts license.

    high · Wayne Gillard: 'We basically bought the pinball.com website. We bought all the 79 patents, Williams patents... we bought them outright... we licensed the copyrights from them and we also licensed the rights to remanufacture all of the replacement parts as well as games'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Pinball Brothers acquired Highway Pinball assets and planned to manufacture Queen machine under new Pinball Brothers banner in Norway/Sweden. Expected announcement by end of 2024, but unlikely to have significant product ready in 2025 due to wind-up complexity.

    medium · Wayne Gillard: 'They've got the licence to Queen and that they'll be manufacturing it in Norway or Sweden... they were meant to be making some announcement at some point later in the year... I'd be surprised if they had much happening for the next year'

    • 6:04
    That's the one that me and money have right? Yeah it is. Yeah, and believe me, they're very limited numbers because even though they're meant to be numbered to 250 games, there was only probably about 80 of them in total. I think the apron said like mine's like number 65 or 60 something of a thousand. I think it was like they just use a thousand, but I mean, yeah. Yeah, and now they're all end of line so it's now just the Ruby Red edition that you can sell, right? No, they're end of line too so all the Ruby Red editions are finished as well so they've already finished all the numbers of those.
    6:51
    Is there a new type? I think there could be a special Wayne Down Under edition but no doubt there'll be something else available because it's a popular game. So speaking of popular game then, so that was obviously the first Jerser Jack game that you had and then obviously you've moved into Hobbit and then Darlene. Have the numbers been consistent across those three titles of what you've sold? Yeah, so Wizard of Oz, you know, we've done well over 100 games. The Hobbit, the same, dialed in the same. So as far as sales goes, they've all been about the same. And the pre-orders that we have on the Pirates of the Caribbean are indicating much the same as well. So our first 40-foot container is leaving Jersey Jack, I believe, this week or next week.
    7:53
    You know, they had 25 on the line last week and the rest of them are finishing off this week, I believe. So that would indicate similar sort of popularity on this title too. Okay.
    8:08
    And you also said you're distributing Chicago Gaming Company. So, I mean, it was a bit of a mad rush to get the Medieval Madness remakes, the limited edition. They're all gone. You're still selling the Standard Edition and Attack from Mars as well? Yeah, so the Medieval Madness Standard Edition, the last three unsold games at Chicago Gaming are on their way over to Jersey Jack at the moment to be shipped over with the Pirates games. And they're the last three medieval remake games until mid next year before they start looking at making any more.
    8:45
    Okay. So they're moving on to Monster Bash as we all know. The best hidden secret in history. And so they're doing most of the assemblies for that game now so that they can start shipping them out the door pretty much straight away from when they finish with their licensing approvals or UL approvals or there's a couple of approvals that they were waiting on before they could actually ship games out the door. Okay, so how popular has then the Medieval Madness and Attack on Mars remakes been compared to other machines that you sell? So what happens with those games is we sell a lot of them in a short period of time. So with things like the Jersey Jack games and other brands, you're generally selling them each week over a period of time. But with these, everyone wants to get in on a limited edition. So they all order it straight away, whether they want it or not, they order it still. And so what happens is you get 50 or 60 or even more orders straight away for that title rather than some orders and some coming over as stock. They're pretty much, your allocation gets pretty well sold out straight away.
    10:11
    Is that because you think most of the people that are buying them are established collectors whereas someone who's buying a wizard of ours, I'm guessing you sell them to a lot of families buying their first Pinball machine versus selling them an attack from Mars or something. Yeah, I mean, what sort of I find happens is that once, let's say someone bought a medieval, then a percentage of those people will then buy an attack from Mars and then a percentage of the medieval people who also bought an attack from Mars will buy a monster bash plus new people. So the thing that's becoming more difficult is the allocation because they only make 1,000 limited edition games and let's say we get allocated say 50, well that 50, you've got more than 50 customers that want them but they're not making any more than the 1,000 and our allocation generally isn't getting any higher. So unless they change their production runs on our leads of more than a thousand, then we're going to sell out of every remake very quickly in our leads, I mean.
    11:31
    What I was trying to get at, I guess, is if someone rings up and they say, I want to buy my first Pinball machine. I mean, obviously you have a wide variety of secondhand machines from the 90s. You do trade-ins and things like that. Is it easier to sell them, say, a Hobbit or a Wizard of Oz or a Doldyn because it's got the big screen and it's newer? Or do you say, well, you should get a Meal of Manus or Attack from Mars because you know that that's a popular title because, you know, the pin-side list and then 20 years' worth of people playing it? Well, I mean, after we call them an ambulance and sit them down for a while to calm them down because we've told them how much a new machine is, then generally I ask them the question, what are they doing with the machine? Do they have any kids? Are they going to be playing it a lot? Is it just for themselves something that they remember playing when they were younger? Let's say they'll remember playing an early Strikes and Spares or something similar or a Meteor or something.
    12:37
    Then I try to work out what they're going to be doing with it and whether it's for them or whether it's for the family. Now if it's for the family and they've got kids, I recommend that they buy something at least in the 1990s because it's got ramps and music and video modes and all of that sort of thing. They won't get bored with it as quickly and also the kids can sort of hammer it and play it a lot and it's going to be quite reliable for home.
    13:02
    Otherwise, certainly the newer games, if that fits within their budget, then The Hobbit is a very popular title and Wizard of Oz as well. But yeah, so I just try and it's not all about making money and selling them whatever has the most profit in it and what you can move out the door. It's more about not getting annoyed on Saturday nights, getting phone calls with problems with a machine. You've sold someone that isn't really going to suit the application that they're buying it for. So I try and work out what they're doing with it first. But everyone has a wide range of income so you've got to try and sell a game that fits their budget as well. No point selling them a Hobbit pinball or some brand new pinball under finance with repayments that they can't afford to make as well.
    13:56
    So I just try and fit the machine to the customer depending on what that is. I think theme also would play probably a really important thing. Like, yes, Attack from Mars we know in Medieval Madness are better games. Dare I said it. But when you say to a family, you've got Wizard of Oz or Hobbit, that's the theme component that sort of appeals to them as well. Would you say? Yeah, well, absolutely. I mean, all the themes like Medieval Attack from Mars, as you know, are not licensed themes. So they're popular because people remember them as being a classic machine and a great machine back 20 years ago that they probably used to play. But with something like The Hobbit or Wizard of Oz and all that, they've automatically got brand recognition and it's something that they sat in the cinemas and watched or fell asleep for however many hours it was watching all the Hobbit series. Yeah.
    14:59
    Or the Wizard of Oz. That's right. So then that leads to, probably for me, the American Pinball now. So you've got Houdini that you're selling. Do you find that that, even though they say it's not a licensed theme, that it kind of is a pseudo-license, does that sort of fall into that category now where it is a theme that's recognisable to the masses?
    15:21
    Yeah, look, everyone knows Houdini. So whether it be a licensed theme or a theme that is no longer trademarked or whatever, You know, everyone's familiar with it. So definitely, you know, lots of people play this game. It's got video modes and it's very good value for money as well.
    15:43
    You know, certainly it doesn't have as many, you know, multi-mini play fields and all those sorts of things as some other games that are more expensive do. But it has a fit in both home use as well as operators buying it too. Because a lot of operators don't want to spend $14,000 on a new pinball but we're finding quite a few operators are buying the Houdini and siting it. You know some are going on site in Sydney and Queensland the minute they arrive. So the more pinballs we can get out on site which is where Stern has the advantage because they have the pros or the premiums and the LEs for collectors. But we've got to have some product that doesn't necessarily have all the bells and whistles, but is a bit cheaper that we can get out on the street to get more people playing pinball, because the more people that play pinball, like you guys, you play pinball out on site, and then you buy them, and you have them in your home, and then you start collecting them, and one's never enough. It's exactly right. Yeah, it's a lot of, I'm not sure if it's a misconception, but a lot of people I think say that, oh, if you've got a lot of Pinball machines on site, then you don't necessarily need it. But the amount of people, Ghostbusters is the biggest one for me, that the amount of people that I've had conversations with, they say, ah, I've played Ghostbusters here or there, and I just fell in love with it, and I bought it as my first machine. It's just insane. So, you know, the more, I guess, the more you can get the machine out there. And, you know, there's a Dalton on site in Melbourne now and there's a Dalton, you know, My Hobbit in the city as well. I don't think anyone's starting a Wizard of Oz, but I could be wrong. They probably use one somewhere at some kid's place.
    17:26
    Wayne, let's talk about, yeah, go for it. I think you also need to look at the fact that there are fantastic machines that have tons of toys and features and all that sort of stuff. But when it's like a car, the more features and toys and gadgets and everything that you have on it, the more something goes wrong. It's not that it means that that machine is specifically troublesome. It just means that if your car's got all this adaptive cruise and opens and closes the door by itself and parks itself and does all that stuff, then the more features it has, the more problems that you will have with that machine. So that tends to put some operators off. They want a simple machine that they can put on site, is easy to maintain and doesn't break down and is easy to change parts on and so on and so on. So that's what I'm finding, you know, where some of the more simpler games are cited everywhere because even though there may not be better games to play but, you know, their downtime is less and they're making good money and their return on their investment, you know, is a lot less. Well, so then that brings us to probably the next machine. In that parallel of having too much and therefore a lot of things can break down, let's talk about Alien Pinball.
    18:52
    So you were a distributor for Highway before it all changed and you actually, I think you managed to get one of the last shipments of it and it's been an interesting game. Yeah, so look, it's about 95% there. It's that 5% that, you know, you've got to tweak it and change a few things on it, like, you know, USB cables and all these types of things.
    19:23
    And you've played it. I mean, the code, some of the code in the earlier revision was a bit buggy. Yeah, even today we were playing one and we lost the flippers on it and it had new USB cables on it and it had a new power supply and it had just about everything and I think in the end I threw a new IO board at it and it seems to be behaving itself at the moment. But yeah, I think the problem that happened with that is the first code that came out, I think it was 1.0 or 1.1 or something, no, 1.0. And that was actually quite good, it was quite stable. And then they bought out the 1.1 code and just about every machine on the planet had problems. wouldn't boot up or, you know, flippers lost, things dropped out, all that type of stuff and then it went into panic mode with parts and warranties and repairs and everything all over the world. And then, of course, they came out with the 1.2 which fixed a lot of the bugs that 1.1 had. By the time all that happened, it was a little bit too late and, you know, people had lost confidence in the brand. Sure. So what's the status now? So are you still able to get parts or what's the deal there? So the status is that quite a few people have worked together to have parts remanufactured all over the world. There are a stash of parts that I have access to that include IO boards and jaw boards and jaw mechs and motherboards and monitors. So yeah, there are more parts becoming available for them. So then another interesting game that you still have in your possession, I don't know whether you were officially a distributor, maybe, Magic Girl. So talk to us about, in particular, so we also, we streamed your Magic Girl when you got it and it was dreadful. Let's just put it, right, it was.
    21:38
    But what's your experience being with, and what I really want to know is what you believe kind of works and what doesn't work and why it doesn't work. Well I believe the designer in question believes that the machine is a piece of art and it is the best pinball machine ever made by any manufacturer anywhere in the world. Honestly believe that's what he thinks. It looks great, it does play, you know, I think Ryan got a multi-ball on it, yeah you can flip it and so on but yeah it's the biggest problem is the hard, most of the hard, Hardware's there, but the software's not. So if you go into test, you can test a magnet and you can test a gate and you can test different things that kick and pop and all that, but there's no software that's been written for it actually to function. So, you know, I mean, sure, there are some hardware items that, you know, aren't there or no way of getting to that particular feature, but as far as it still needs a lot of software. Now I think American, not American, Pinball, Deep Root, Deep Root, yep, we're all in for a Deep Root, that'll be good. So they I believe are bringing out Magic Girl and Alice in Wonderland and Razza or whatever it's called. So hopefully we can get some parts and get the actual machine complete. But it's a museum piece. There's only 19 of them in the world.
    23:15
    And if you've got a collection of pinball machines and you have it in your collection and you're just playing a few games on it here and there, that's great. But if it's your only pinball machine, then it's not so great. No. Are you going to be distributing Deep Root or is that an ongoing discussion? I haven't heard from them at all, actually, to be honest. Nobody has offered me a Deep Root yet. So I'm not sure what's going to have. Have you? Okay. I must have been drunk.
    23:51
    Yeah, but not really sure what's been happening there. I know the boss of the company was one of the people who was involved in trying to put an offer in to be an investor in Jersey Jack before the current investors were there. But that's as much as I know about them. But they've got a great team of designers.
    24:17
    Yeah, for sure. And you're pretty much distributing, well, let's say, pretty much everything but Stern. Yeah, I think they've called me... Not spooky. No, no. But you did get some of the machines in. Yeah, yeah. We've got some spooky pinballs, but we're not an authorised distributor for spooky. But, you know, we feel that there needs to be spooky product in Australia available for people to purchase now and load it up in their car and take it away. And so, therefore, we've purchased some machines at full price like every other consumer. And we've got customers who just prefer to be able to buy a product and not order it and wait for it, but actually buy it, take it away. Well, play it. Off they go. Play it before they put the meat out, right? Enjoy it. Exactly, yep. So there's one in Sydney out on site that's come from us. There's a couple more that people have bought privately. So, look, we're in the business of selling pinballs and the golden rule over here is you either sell Stern or you don't sell anything. So, therefore, the distributors who sell Stern can't sell any other brand. And we don't sell Stern because they're the distributor for Stern so we'll sell everything else. Yeah, I can't. Now, if I can, just go back to, you know, being a distributor for the likes of Highway. And I bring this up because, you know, you can't just say, well, there's another manufacturer that's not Stern, therefore we're the distributor. Like, you've really got to assess who they are. And I bring this up because I wanted to know what your thoughts were on what actually happened with Highway and where did it go and who were these people?
    26:14
    Well, the initial discussions that we had with Andrew Highway were that we were going to be the distributor. He was building sample games. We were to get a sample machine and then order in a quantity of machines once we'd seen them and so on.
    26:36
    However, we got a phone call to say most of the distributors have ordered 20 games. How many are you ordering? And I said, well, we're not ordering any at the moment because we don't have a sample and we can't see the product or anything yet. That was back when it was full throttle.
    26:54
    So then he said, I don't have problems, I'll let you know when we've got the game, the sample game, and that was it. Next thing I know, another distributor had the full throttle machine and was announced as the distributor. And then not long after that, he sold that machine off and then he took off his website that he was the distributor. And I believe he was told that he either sells Stearns or he doesn't sell anything or he sells Highway. So therefore he pulled the pin on it. So then Andrew Highway came running back to us again saying, oh, look, we really, really, you know, we've made a mistake and so on. And we really want you to be the distributor and so on. But by that stage, it was too late anyway. He was pretty much out the door. And then we were dealing with the Pinball Brothers people who took over from Highway. So we really didn't have too much to do with Andrew so much. It was more talking with the Pinball Brothers, which in actual fact we didn't really buy anything off Highway as such because the Pinball Brothers had set up a completely different company And that company was technically bought the shares in Highway or bought the assets of Highway and we actually purchased them, machines from them, not so much Highway directly. Do you believe they'll be back in some form with, what was their second machine? I can't even remember now. Queen and was it Playboy? Yeah, I don't know about Playboy.
    28:33
    You know, Queen, from what I'm led to believe, is that they've got the licence to Queen and that they'll be manufacturing it in Norway or Sweden or somewhere under the Pinball Brothers banner. Yeah, but I don't, you know, it's now September and I thought that they were meant to be making some announcement at some point later in the year about the new machine and the new company and the product. But it takes a lot longer than the time frame. I'd be surprised if they had much happening for the next year. Okay.
    29:09
    Plus the wind-up of highway as well, I mean, that takes time as well. Yeah. Pinball is coming up, so I guess we'll see if they change that exhibition list last minute. Sometimes they do that. Yep. Wayne, you've been involved with Pinball for a long time, and you had a pretty ambitious goal to recreate medieval madness back, geez, I don't know. When was it? When did that all start?
    29:37
    Back in about 2005. Yeah, about 2005, but a little bit before that. So we were the Bally Williams agents in Australia, you know, with parts. So we were an agent for Illinois Pinball who had purchased a license from Williams to manufacture replacement parts exclusively for five years and not exclusively after that. So we were selling all Bally Williams parts that we were sourcing from Illinois Pinball as a parts distributor but we had to ring Illinois Pinball at 2 o'clock in the morning Australia time and sit on the phone basically trying to beg for parts to get them to pack parts that are sitting in a corner waiting that have been sitting in that corner for the last three months to try and get the parts out the door to get parts because we needed the parts. And this was a problem that was happening worldwide was that they had all the parts but they couldn't put them in boxes or they couldn't get them out the door quick enough for whatever reason. So I got sort of fed up with it and one day I sent Williams an email and basically just said, listen, you know, I want to buy, you know, a license or I want to buy the rights or I want to basically buy, you know, Buy whatever you've got for sale and here's a million dollars. So I threw some bait out in the middle of the river basically to say well here's a million dollars hanging on this line. Australian dollars or US dollars? US dollars.
    31:25
    So I said here's a million dollars hanging on this line as bait so if you want it, it's there to take but you've got to give me something for it. So they're owned by shareholders. Now, what happened was they got to a point with discussions going backwards and forwards and Stern were involved in these discussions but they couldn't get the money together by a certain date that was required or the contract signed or whatever. Because with shareholders, they have their annual report and they have their dividends and whatever they do and they were coming up short for their commitment that they have to give or tell their shareholders. So by having this on the balance sheet, and I'm sure if you look into the Williams balance sheet you'll see this transaction, where them selling this licence to me went into their balance sheet which was profit and in which case it meant that their turnover for that quarter was a lot stronger than what it would have been. Yeah. So what did you actually buy from? Well, we basically bought the pinball.com website. We bought all the 79 patents, Williams patents that they had, you know, for like ball troughs and, you know, auditing systems and, you know, all sorts of patents. You bought them forever or it's like a temporary license? No, no, we bought them forever. We bought them outright. So we bought the website, we bought all the patents and then we licensed the copyrights from them and we also licensed the rights to remanufacture all of the replacement parts as well as games. That's new games under the belly trademark and new games under the belly trademark as in completely new titles and old games that had the belly trademark under the belly trademark or Williams games but without the use of the Williams trademark on remakes or new games. And the reason for that was because they were still using that Williams name in their gaming machines.
    34:09
    So they didn want to cause confusion in the marketplace as well by saying oh all of a sudden you know Williams is making you know new machines Because they didn own the rights to Bally anyway Bally actually owned by Caesars Entertainment in Las Vegas So they were just a licensee of the Bally name for pinball anyway. Okay. So that's pretty much what we licensed. So we got all the intellectual property as well. We got the source codes, we got all the CAD files and drawings and artwork discs and pretty much they backed up all of their computers that they had including everything, administrative stuff as well. They backed everything up and gave us all of that. I mean I can tell you, I can probably tell you every designer's birthday. I mean, how does Gene Cunningham come into this? Because he also owned something at that time or did he own half and you owned half or something? No, if you ask Gene Cunningham, he owned everything. But actually, all Gene owned was, Gene owned a license to remanufacture replacement parts exclusively for five years and then non-exclusively after that. And what that meant was that Williams could sell a license to somebody else after five years and have other people doing it. Well, I made sure I put a stop to that and made sure my license was perpetual and exclusive. So I had to understand that Illinois Pinball was still a licensee and had an existing license, but I was the perpetual license holder. Okay. So there'll be no more licences and there'll be no more licences and they couldn't issue a licence to anyone else to make games or parts. All right. So you're sitting there now in Australia with all of these patents and all these licenses and I'm guessing you've got a container shipped down of certain goods because I know you've got one of the wizard blocks there, right? Yep. Or some parts. Yep. So you're sitting on this stuff and then I'm guessing you have a meeting with people that work for you and you say, okay, let's figure out what we're going to do with all this stuff, right? Yep. Well, to be honest, my day involved coming into work every morning and answering about 300 emails from people all over the world, whether it be I'm after this nut and bolt to fix this pinball or this bracket or do you have this part number or something like that, Or lawyers or television studios emailing me for permission to use a pinball machine in some movie or commercial or something. So, look, we started off reproducing a lot of parts that were out of stock. So there was about 700 parts that we remade that weren't currently available. They included all of the moulded plastic parts. I mean people seem to think that the magic parts fairy just comes along and sprinkles parts but it doesn't work that way. So we made all the troll heads, I mean the red troll heads, that was my idea, the mad ringmasters and the inverted ringmasters and all of these other things. So we remade a lot of those, a lot of metal parts, plastic parts, you know, flipper bats, you know, all sorts of parts that were out of stock. So that was the first thing and we got those to distributors all over the world like your Marcos and your Bay Area Amusements and your Pinball Heaven and all the companies in Europe and so on. So we were picking and packing parts all the time. We had a factory in Chicago where parts went to, some of them got distributed off to resellers in the US, and then the rest of them got packed up and shipped over here to Australia.
    38:17
    Okay, and then you made a decision from there to remake Mable Bandits. How did that come about? Did you see the prices for that going up the most? Well, what happened initially was we were working on the Crocodile Hunter as a pinball prior to acquiring the license from Williams. And, you know, it was all going together pretty well. I mean, we had a new pin system software operating system.
    38:48
    So what did you base this off, sorry? This isn't based off Pinball 2000. This was kind of like a hybrid of the WPC-95 architecture? Yeah, like what we were trying to do was produce a product that transitioned, that looked similar to both, as in similar to a WPC and Pinball 2000, but getting away from the projection onto the playfield situation. So the head box. You said, sorry, that you were producing it while, so before you had the license, but it had the Bally name under it. So were you? It didn't initially. Oh, okay. The Bally name came later. So the Bally name came. What we were doing was designing this game. We didn't even have the rights. We were just utilising our own information. But what happened is when we acquired the rights, we then got all the Williams design library, which basically tells you, you know, you can put a ramp here and you've got a shot here and you've got a set of pop bumpers and the play field has to be this wide and the lanes have to be that wide and the flipper gap has to be this wide. And you drag these design libraries in AutoCAD and you drag them from the screen above and you place them in position. So we were able to, so we went back and redesigned the Playfield layout using all the engineering and drawings and CAD files and everything, like even the inserts, everything that Williams had supplied to us. So it is, Pimball is easy then, in the 90s, you just drag drop on the playfield, just like Joe Cameroun. Well, someone, yeah, someone had to, actually, John Popajuk emailed me, you know, a long, long time ago, asking me if I had a copy of his hard drive that he had at Williams, and if I'd mind sending it over to him, because, you know, it had all these designs of games that he was working on that was never made. Are you willing to exclusively share some of those titles with us? I don't know whether they've got any specific titles. I'd have to have a look at some of the file names because they're all under file names. Obviously the things like Dreadmoor Manor. But you do have this. It's got all these designs on it. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, absolutely.
    41:19
    Marty, you need to do a Melbourne Silver Ball Extreme, But instead of playing Pinball, just sit there with like a camera strapped to your head and just sit through hard drive.
    41:29
    Do you have a hard drive? See what someone gets me working on. Yeah, I can even probably, you know, tell you what some of the designers were getting paid at the time, you know. How about their internet browsing history? Yeah. Do you have that? No, no, I don't have that unfortunately. You didn't have the internet back then, Ryan.
    41:47
    Ascypon, Ascypon. That was before Windows 95, remember? Doss-based stuff. Yep, Aksley Porn. Aksley Porn's been around for ages. Okay.
    42:00
    All right, so, okay, what happened to Crocodile Hunter? When did you sign this house, that one? Okay, so look, regardless of what people say, cost you a million dollars, no matter who it is, to design a pinball machine from scratch. This is from design to having a product that you can start putting on a production line and copying. Now, we put about $250,000 into it. We had a playfield layout. We had some basic flippable software, cabinet art, translight art, and we didn't have any playfield art yet, but that's where we're heading. We had some sounds and some voice and stuff as well. So we were getting to that point, and then unfortunately he got killed by a stingray.
    42:44
    He was still alive when this was happening. Yeah, absolutely. He approved some of the art, some of the voice stuff and also I've got a signed, it's like a photo, signed photo thing of him that we got to. So what happened back then is with licensing, they used separate companies to do the licensing and that company went broke obviously because they probably had a lot of licensing going on with the Crocodile Hunter. But the Crocodile Hunter itself is a trademark and they technically hired Steve Irwin to be the Crocodile Hunter. But, you know, you could be the Crocodile Hunter, Ryan. You know, it could be anybody. They just happen to employ Steve Irwin as the crocodile hunter.
    43:36
    So that's how that worked. But those rights are owned by somebody else. So Australia Zoo that has an image of Steve Irwin there as the crocodile hunter, they have to get permission from the owners of the crocodile hunter to actually have that Steve Irwin, the crocodile hunter, at Australia Zoo. So different people own the licensing. You've got Discovery Channel involved and you've got Animal Planet and all these other different licensing arms. But basically at the time nobody could approve anything further on the game, meaning we could change the name to Australia Zoo and have Steve Irwin on it or we could have the Crocodile Hunter and go that way but there'd be no images or voice of Steve Irwin on it. So there was a fantastic plan which I'm sure everyone would have just, would have been the best selling machine ever and that was we could have converted it to Bindi the, Bindi the Crocodile Girl or something I think it was called.
    44:41
    So yeah, so but we sort of passed on that idea. Which is a little bit more famous now, but yeah, I don't think people have been clamoring to buy that. So how did that eventually transition into the Medieval Madness remake? Well, so we'd had a lot of money tied up in that, of course, and we sort of, until, it was sort of put on hold. It wasn't necessarily cancelled, it was put on hold. So we had people employed to work for us doing all sorts of things whether it be programming or drawings or you know assembly stuff so on. So we thought well okay well what else can we do? We've got the rights to remake Bally Williams games. So we decided we didn't know which one whether it be Medieval or Cactus Canyon. So we sort of put it out there to people to gain interest. So it wasn't that we were taking orders for Cactus Canyon and Medieval. We put it out there to find which one would be the most popular that people would want to buy because obviously as you know Cactus Canyon isn't really finished game software wise. So we put it out there and we found that Medieval was the one that everybody wanted. So then we said, well, we need to get so many orders in for us to warrant building this game. So at the time we sort of got 1,000 people committed. It didn't mean people paid deposits, 1,000 people, but we got 1,000 people committed and we figured, right, well, let's go with that one. So then we started working on that, but a little bit different to how other people have done their pre-order scenarios. And that was that we were using our own money and any deposits that people did pay went into a trust account. We didn't have access to that trust account at all until the game was complete. And, you know, so we had to virtually get written permission off the customer who'd paid the deposit for the trustees to release that money, you know, for whatever reason. So how did you, how does this work? I mean, how did you advertise this back in the day? You know, we're talking, was it, you know, maybe 12 years ago or 10 years ago? So how did you, is this like on IGP or? Yeah, look, I guess, I mean, it's a long time ago now, but, you know, certainly the word gets around. It's probably not as fast as it gets around now, you know, but, you know, like, obviously with pinball.com and you had pinball news and you had all these other media methods out there. So that's sort of where most of it sort of started and people were placing orders and all that. And we were ordering the parts in and we were assembling, I mean there's plenty of photos around, we were assembling hundreds of troll heads and flipper assemblies and all sorts of parts, medieval madness. And then of course we had the US economy sort of crash and the Aussie dollar dropped to under 60 cents. It was in the 50s and of course a lot of people were losing their homes in America and the last thing they were doing was buying pinball machines. So we had a lot of people cancel and wanting refunds. Now, unfortunately, we can't hold US dollars in trust. It has to be in Australian dollars. So what happens is, let's say somebody paid by credit card and let's say whatever the deposit was, let's say it was $2,500 Australian. So that might have been $2,000 US at the time. Well, they paid it in credit cards, for example. That two and a half Australian, whatever their equivalent at the time was in US dollars, went into a trust account.
    48:52
    Now, that was earlier, though, before the economy crashed. So, let's say hypothetically if it was a dollar for dollar, then two and a half thousand dollar deposit was two and a half thousand Australian. Now, when the economy dies and it drops down to 50 cents, well then automatically when they want to refund, their refund becomes a lot more than the $2,500 Australian we're holding. But we've still got to give them back their $2,500 US. So therefore we were refunding, you know, off the top of my head I think it was $3,750 Australian for the $2,500 Australian they'd paid at the time. So, you know, hundreds of refunds where we were having to top up the money with our own money to refund those people. So, and plus, of course, all the parts then became more expensive and then having less games being ordered as well meant that the bill of material costs to build these medieval madnesses was getting right up there, you know, close to $8,000 bill of material costs. But that didn't matter. We were still, the people who were still in on it, you know, we were still prepared to make them, but obviously using our own money just generated through selling parts and so on because we can't use their money because it was in trust.
    50:11
    But it was very, very hard though because every single cent that, you know, came in from general business and selling parts and so on went straight back into, you know, medieval. Now, then sort of probably fast forwarding a little bit, you know, Rick from Planetary Pinball, well, Rick from Bay Area Amusement, you know, contacted me and said, you know, look, we can't get parts out of Illinois Pinball and they were having financial difficulties at the time too. So, you know, like, would you be interested in selling the rights? Because Jersie Jack was looking at starting up making pinballs and using Bally Williams parts. They had some other interested parties that were looking to manufacture some other products, etc. And whether I'd be interested in selling the rights. And I said, well, look, you know, it's not for sale, but I guess, you know, if you offer me an outrageous amount of money, well, you know, I suppose everything's available for a price, you know. I said, but the only problem I've got is I've got committed people who have paid deposits on a medieval madness, you know, that we're, you know, that I'm personally, I'm committed to, you know, committed to making. And they sort of so cut a long story short without saying too much in regards to contractual arrangements we have with them. But we ended into an arrangement with them where they would supply us with a certain number of medieval madnesses at a certain price and that those machines we could make available to customers that wanted to swap over to the Planetary Pinball remake of the medieval madness. So a lot of people swapped over to that. At least 20 people have received a brand new Williams-based Medieval Madness that we built from us.
    52:18
    And, you know, we do have lots of parts left over, as people notice. We've got just about every part from Medieval Madness you can think of, how many thousand ramps you want, or WPC, boards left, right and centre. So, you know, we've still got lots of parts that we could make games. But the problem is the cost of labour and producing these games, we can't dedicate all our time to making up spending on putting medieval madnesses together. So we've just been doing it. Send them to Mike in Homepin. Send them to Mike in Homepin. It's pretty easy, right? Yeah, yeah. I think he's busy trying to make boards or something for Williams boards at the moment.
    53:00
    I don't know. He's trying to work out how he can get a couple of letters removed from the dictionary.
    53:16
    International Rescue is a lot. How can Fela Humpkin distribute it away? I just shouldn't ask you that. Yeah, look, basically all I can say is I wished Home Pin the very best. I even helped them with some intellectual property stuff to assist them in manufacturing their machine, which I've got boxes of them at work. I'll show you one day, Ryan. And he's even made some products for me, some boards and things.
    54:00
    And regardless of what everyone had said, I just kept my own opinion and just stuck to it like that. But when someone that sells, you know, 50 Hank and Home Pin tabletops a year for him, And when he asks a simple question of, you know, will you have a machine ready for Flipout, which is a show we have, a pinball show here in Melbourne in December.
    54:31
    We'd love to showcase your machine. We've got other manufacturers that are showcasing their machines as well. And the reply I get is, Melbourne's like a third world country. Well, that's a valid point.
    54:46
    And what was the other thing? Like a third world country for transport to get to and from the airport and that Melbourne is the wart on the amusement industry that just won't heal. And also another valid point. Those comments, basically, I decided that I would no longer be selling any home pin products. Yeah, fair enough. Well, so let's then move on to Flip Out, right? So this is the event that's happening December this year. This will be the third year, is that right? Third year, yep, absolutely, yep. And bigger and better, yeah. Yeah, I know. And so we've had, you know, Jersie Jack come out and he's coming out again this year. Tell us about this event. So it's on Saturday the 1st and Sunday the 2nd of December in Melbourne at the Sandbelt Hotel, 630 South Road in Moorabbin, about 20 kilometres southeast of the city. So we've got, you know, we have over 50 pinballs that will be there for people to play. We've got competitions on, IFPA sanctioned for Saturday and the finals on Sunday and Saturday night we've got a flip frenzy happening as well. Jersey Jack will be flying in for that event as usual.
    56:12
    Unfortunately, haven't heard back from home Pinn yet. Not sure he'll be present. But certainly the invitation is there for all pinball manufacturers. American Pinball, we've sent an invite out to them as well. Hopefully they will have their second pinball machine ready available for release by then too. Ooh, that'd be something to play XOperfest. Mafia Pinball, Wayne, are you possibly doing anything with that? So the Mafia Pinball, I think it's number 8 of number 10, 8 of 10 is being loaded in the UK at the moment and shipped over to us so we'll have that in a few weeks. So people will be able to see that and play that at Flipout. And you'll be able to stream it no doubt Wayne. And you'll be able to stream it, yep absolutely. So that's heading over so it'll be a few weeks and it'll be here. You've probably seen some footage of some other machines being shipped to the US and so on, show machines, so our show machine will be here soon. Awesome. Well, that's good. Interesting to see what it's all about.
    57:23
    Sounds like a good event, Wayne. Sounds like, I mean, every year you're building it up and up and, you know, you've got talks and stuff on you. Jersey Jack has come every year. We have the, where else can you see the internet thingy? Jack Sparrow. I can't believe him.
    57:41
    And is backed by popular demand, you know. Magic Girl, the only, yeah. They just keep on coming. Magic Girl will be there, Wayne. We've got Magic Girl there, we've got Alien there, we've got TNA there, we've got Pirates of the Caribbean. Which version? The Mafia, the Mafia Pinball. What's happened to the three spinning disc version? Because you're probably one of the only people in the world that has a three spinning disc version of that. Was that returned to sender or do you still have that somewhere? You know, I heard that they wanted it back.
    58:17
    Unfortunately, it had a severe catastrophic accident, fell down a flight of stairs, and we just can't find the three spinning discs. So we've glued it all back together and there's just one spinning disc. So, therefore, we're sort of figuring that if it's just got one spinning disc, we can keep it. Okay.
    58:45
    I have no idea what you're saying, but I'm still funny. Okay. All right. Meaning that, you know, if it doesn't exist, it's just a bit of a... You're just probably getting out soon. Yeah, okay. You could have just told it. That would have just been easier to understand and more believable. Sold it. No, but then they'd want us to pay them for it. No, no, no.
    59:10
    Alright, Wayne. We don't know about the other one that dialed in either. That's a good way to talk about it, Wayne, just live on air with 3,000 listeners. Okay, Wayne, we want to thank you for coming on today. It was very interesting to get the backstory about that, you know, the Billy Williams license and the medical madness and we wish you luck and we will be there at Flipout 2018 to support the event and Mata will be running all the time. But the multi-million dollar question is, how much did I, everyone wants to know, how much did I get paid for selling the Williams rights?
    59:54
    Well, I mean obviously we want to know, will you tell us? All I say to people is I sit at my million dollar beach house driving my quarter of a million dollar sports car or flying my million dollar helicopter down to my million dollar beach house if it's too cold and just sit there drinking a few beers watching the boats go backwards and forwards carrying all the container loads of pinballs.
    60:22
    I don't have to worry about all the stress involved in the lives. Oh shit, mate, you're there every day working your arse off. I know.
    60:34
    Other than when I'm not there working my arse off. Yeah. All right, Wayne. No, we all love pinball. You know, I mean, regardless of what people may think about me or heard about me or anything like that, I mean, you know, like I mortgaged my house to buy the rights because I love pinball. You know, I left school when I was 15 to a job working on electromechanical and solid state pinballs. That's all I've really done, you know, for 35, 36 years. So for people to sort of, people who say, oh, you're not passionate about pinball, you know, etc., etc., it couldn't be any further from the truth. I know, I remember you telling me the story about the guy who was trying to make a remake Wizard Locks and you're pretty much the only person in the world that could have him out and you kind of gladly shared what you could with him, right? I posted on Pinside all the rules so he could actually write all the rules and Compy, I think his username is or something, Pinside names. But yeah, you know, the more people that make pinballs, doesn't matter what it is, the more people that play pinball, the whole thing is to get people involved in pinball. And while we're here to 3,000 people, anyone that's in the US, Europe, UK, Singapore, China even, come to Flipout in December. Come to Australia because, you know, it's the only place you can get kangaroos sacks from.
    62:16
    Kind of all. And injury dues and everything else. And we'd love to have you here. We can do with the IFPA points too, but we'll have to have you here.
    62:29
    Alright, we've got to go. You push that in this area. There mate, Josh, Josh up, come, come. That's so random, why Josh up? Why not? He's the highest point. He's just literally putting out names of the few people that he knows. Doesn't he have the highest points?
    63:03
    Raymond Davison. Oh my god, that's who you want? Raymond Davison. Josh Shouts the evil guy who runs the organisation. He's like the doctor. Oh, he's the, you know, so we have to pay him one million dollars. Yeah, one dollar at a time, Wayne. One dollar at a time. I'm crying. Wayne. Yes, Wayne. Thank you very much. We'll let you know when Mafia is here and you can come and play that one. Yeah, for sure. Thanks, man. Good talking to you guys. See you, mate. See ya. So there we go. That was Wayne Gillard, also known as Mr. Pinball. We learnt a lot. Yep, I have to have a five minute break to stop laughing and calm myself down at the end.
    63:49
    Let's get straight into the news, Marty. Yes. Got two weeks worth of news to go through. So, Oktoberfest. Yes. About a while ago. Well, I mean, who would have thought, except that we blew the lead on this motherfucker. Yeah.
    64:05
    I guess there was an official announcement saying that it will be the next game. Correct. Joe Balsa talked about it at the Vancouver Flipout Festival, I think that's what it's called. Yep. It is a... I mean, what did he show? He showed a picture of an old dude and he showed a very kind of cryptic picture of the play field. Yes.
    64:27
    Sorry. We already knew from the Josh Kluge interview that it does have three flippers. Yes. An upper right flipper. The shots are a bit more wide open. And what can you deduce from that cryptic kind of picture? Fuck all. And I stared at that picture over and over. It's at such an odd angle and I couldn't even really make out where the photo was taken from.
    64:54
    I don't know. It's an interesting thing. It could be a great machine. I think that, you know, the license, you know, what is it, Oktoberfest Pinball on Tap? I don't know.
    65:08
    From that, what we can make of that little tiny black and white picture, it looks like a full pinball machine. A full pinball machine? Well, what I mean is, it looks like it will be a pinball machine. It will have amps, it will have flippers, it will have all the elements that you want in a pinball machine. There you have it, guys. That's really good, right? With the official October special issue. Oh, shit. Okay. Yep. I think there's a slide ramp there. It looks like the same kind of slide ramp as that's on Stern Pinball Party. But, you know, you've got a scoop and you've got a big wide open kind of left ramp. And then a whole bunch of wire forms kind of crisscrossing. And, yeah, we'll see in, I guess, 50 or so days or whenever it is at the Chicago Pinball Expo. Very exciting. Of course, there's a lot of people that are kind of shitting on the scene. Of course. Okay, listen guys, I'm going to tell you this one more time, I think I've already said it before. You guys don't own stocks in Pinball machines. You don't make money when Pinball machines make money. When Stern sells a shitload of Ghostbusters, guess what? You don't make any money from that, unless you're an operator that operates a Pinball machine. So yes, we want all these companies to sell a crap load of their pinball machines so they can be successful. Do I think this is going to be a theme that sells thousands and thousands of pinball machines? Probably not. But that doesn't make me want to shoot on the license because I don't like it.
    66:46
    I want to support them in any way that I can because they're making an original theme and I'm guessing it's going to be fun. And someone put it on Pinside at best. Sorry, I didn't write down the username, but this is the exact quote. There's people like, a game about beer, you know, how fucking stupid. Oh, a game about boobs, you know, no one will ever let you have that Pinnball machine. Someone said, a game about catching fish? Blame. A game about rafting? Rest in peace, Bailey Williams. Why can't they do cool things like Data East? I'm a marketing expert. And that said it all to me. It's just like all these fucking amazing games from the 90s have stupid ass themes. Really stupid. And they're fun. Well, okay. So I know it's not necessarily an exact parallel, but I'm going to talk about Aerosmith. Because Aerosmith, for me, is a terrible thing. And when I heard about it I just went what a shit thing. A band that's you know had its heyday years ago not relevant now it's going to be a shit game. And then when you actually see the art and how they've reinterpreted them in that style and then it's a solid play field layout and it's got great rules and obviously we're going to go into code in a sec. It actually is a great game. So if the game is great, if the rules are great, if the R package of sound is all great, then that can actually make a theme that you didn't think was great all of a sudden be great.
    68:24
    I just think that the overall mood of what everyone into at the moment will I don know Like as part of the whole collective community you know not a lot of people say well I don give a fuck what anyone thinks I buy whatever machine I buy No one wants to be the guy that, oh my god, you bought that? Oh my god, you bought this game? Like, that's a turd, that's a turd, or this, this and that. So, I'm not sure if it's going to be cool to own a... I know it sounds stupid, but this is how some questions think. I'm not sure if it's going to be cool to own a Oktoberfest, but I don't know. I just love Ballym's games from the 90s, and this isn't a Ballym's game from the 90s, but you could see the thing being one, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think it's got potential. I want to see what they do with the visuals, how they bring that theme to life, and obviously I want to see the play field. And to Joe Balsas, it's going to be an interesting layout. It's going to have some interesting shots. I don't think he would even dare do a standard fan layout, which has just got basic shots that we all know. I think he'll try to do something different. I don't know.
    69:42
    I guess the biggest fimmel market in the world is the US. It's kind of like people like Thunderbirds. What the shit is Thunderbirds? They should re-theme it to a Team America. And that's not going to happen, but that's what they know. And America has their own holidays. Sure. Everyone has, you know, they have their own holidays, like the 4th of July. And I think they're a little bit, you know, not everyone, I'm not putting everyone into the same basket, but a lot of people are defensive about popular things from other countries. Well, it's not popular here, so it can fuck off, right? Okay, so that's what I was saying about Aerosmith. Like Aerosmith was never a massive band in Australia. They had their following, but nowhere near. And so a tiny little shitty country that we are sort of says, oh, I don't get Aerosmith. That means nothing to us. No, Australia has embraced everything. We have no culture, right? We literally absorb all cultures. Yeah, absorb everything. We absorb all the cultures, okay? Halloween, that doesn't mean anything in Australia. Well, it didn't mean anything in Australia, and then it slowly, slowly gains popularity. We don't celebrate 4th of July, but Oktoberfest, you've been to an Oktoberfest party, haven't you Marty? In the city, surely? I haven't. Yeah, you know like, yeah? I went to like a proper German like beer house down at the Rocks in Sydney one year for Oktoberfest and it was freaking amazing. It's just a party theme, okay? It's just people having a good time and instead of it lasting one day or one weekend, it lasts a very long time. And it's the state of today where really people want bands and superheroes or TV shows, really. And if it's not any of those things, people don't get it. I understand that this is not going to have global appeal, but I don't know. I'm holding hope that there's going to be something in this. And when we finally see it, we go, oh, okay, I get that now. I'm still not going to buy it. Isn't it a sad state, though, that we live in? And I'm a hypocrite because I fall into it too.
    71:42
    Almost the only movies that I'll go and see in the cinema, because I don't get to go very often because you're young kids and you have a new babysitter and this and that. I pretty much just watch Marvel movies with my life at the cinema because I know what I'm going to get. I know we're going to go and have a good time and eat popcorn and it's not deep. I forget about it like a week later.
    72:00
    But if I say there's a really cool art house movie, I don't want to take that risk. And it's almost like, it's sad, but it's almost like the same state with Pinball Machines, that you have to like, what are these four-year-old, 50-year-old dudes like when they were kids? Let's do that. Versus going out on the whim and doing something like October 1st. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know. We'll see. We will see soon, guys.
    72:26
    What else has happened? Well, so we had news, we now finally know what happened to the Bally Williams license when Farsight lost it from the Pimball Arcade. Oh my gosh. Zen Pinball. Oh my god, what a surprise.
    72:41
    So, I don't know. I didn't lose my games. The ones that I bought are still available. It is a new platform. My biggest concern I had when I heard this was, oh, but I really don't like Zen Pinball. I don't like Pinball FX. In particular, I don't like how... And I remember the Blackade sort of gave me an email and said, Well, it's not meant to be, but I don't like that Zen Pinball feels and looks like a video game as opposed to a realistic simulation of Pinball. So, okay, for people that don't know, including me, Zen Pinball make, like, they have the guys who do all the Marvel stuff and Jaws. Yes. Is that them? Yeah, so Pinball FX. So they have unrealistic playfields where it's impossible to do it in real life. Correct. Things fly across and things come out of the play field that you just wouldn't ever make possible. But it's not just that. The actual physics of the game do not feel real. It's the one that has a crazy ball trail so you can see where the ball is going, right? Yeah, that's exactly right. Okay. But what they've actually said is that they have now created a new physics model which is more realistic and apparently the people that have played it said that it actually plays great. And I believe you can actually play it now but I think it's maybe only on PC and you can play Fishtails, the full unlocked game, and then I think you've got Gimp versions of Medieval Madness, Junkyard and Getaway, meaning it could be that only up to a certain, like a demo, like only up to a certain level of points or maybe it's timed, I don't know at this stage. But it's good to see that at least someone's got the license. But I just hope that they start, and I think they said this, that they're going to start bringing out tables that haven't already been released, I guess, because I forgot them.
    74:36
    Yeah, it's so, I mean, I watched a little video that was on this week in Pimball, and he had a little interview with them. Um, I, the physics did look a little bit better than the Pinball Arcade one, just from the video, I mean, I'm not playing yet. And then they showed them kind of like, modelling out certain like, medieval madness toys, or I can't remember what game, or Junkyard I think it was. And I'm like, ah, you poor bastards, like, this is already, this is already being done by somebody else. You have to like, sit there and do it all again, like, what, like, ah, I bet the people that work there are like, Man, I just want to make the next Marvel copy and paste, get all the assets, have balls flying around and Tony Stark doing this cool Iron Man thing. No, I'm going to have to sit here and scan Junkia. Yep, that's exactly right. Well, so speaking of Pinball Arcade, so they hit back with a vengeance. Ooh, it's a pinball war. Two tables this weekend, Stern tables.
    75:37
    So this is going to be a Stern versus a Bally Williams thing, right? Yeah, and I don't know, like, it is obviously, that's really where it is. I don't know, I mean, it'd be kind of good to have both. Like, I want to see more and more Stern games coming to the Pinball Arcade because, I don't know, again, we're in Australia, we just don't have access to all these machines and, you know, the Bally William ones, pretty much most of them have been done. The good ones have been done.
    76:09
    Noon Yeah Jones, funny. Impossible. Yeah, probably. So what was released this week was your favourite Big Buck Hunter. Yes. The best multiple ever. That doesn't go anywhere. I know. And I don't know, there's something off about that one. The physics just don't feel right. But they also released Woe Nelly.
    76:31
    Big ass Juicy Melon. And I have not been able to put Woynele down. I just love it. You should buy one, mate. It should be your fourth machine. Yeah, we'll get to that later as to why I'm not getting a fourth machine, but it wouldn't be that one. Yeah, it's fun. What's particularly fun about having it on the Pimball Arcade is you only have to buy it once. You know, putting money into that machine, like it's over so quickly. Yeah. So.
    77:10
    What do you like about money? Come on, money. You're a boob fan. You know I'm all about the boobs. You've got a record saying that you are not all about the boobs, Marty. You said that you're not a boob fan. Sure.
    77:24
    What do I like about it? Do you know what? I'm just going to say it, Ryan. I really like the call-outs. I really like the art on it.
    77:35
    I like that it's difficult. I love that it's an interesting layout. I love the sound effects. I don't know. There's something about it that's, I don't know, let's call it a guilty pleasure. Okay. So, you know. Cool. I feel bad and I feel disgraced for liking it. I can't help it. It's a lot of fun.
    77:57
    Please send all of your hate mail to theslams.podcast at gmail.com. Wow, so we saw Deadpool this week, Deadpool Premium slash LE. It's the same play field. Did you see any of it, Marty? I saw a little bit. And let's face it, there was really only one thing I was interested in seeing.
    78:21
    Disco multiball. Disco, the Disco mode. Did you see it? Yeah. Oh, okay. Because I think it happened once. Yeah. Someone clipped it on Twitch, though. I saw the Twitch clip. So, it's not that different, really, to the Pro, if we're really honest.
    78:41
    Well, we don't know because we didn't get to see any of the code, Marty. We don't actually know, Marty. No. It's, yeah, not... I don't know. What are you going to say, Marty? It looks good. It's pretty... It's got a disco ball.
    79:00
    Yep. Deadpool. There's a Deadpool in Queensland now, Marty. There is. At Time Zone, it's a bit interesting that they get one. They must have air freighted it in. Yep. They always air freight stuff in and the lucky Queenslanders will be playing it first, as they always do. I did notice that you got that shot that the lift ramp, I guess you call it a lift ramp, but it goes down in the shooter lane and the ball feeds back to the flipper.
    79:29
    What was really weird is that kind of like failed sometimes and it gets diverted to the left anyway and comes back on the play field, but I'm not sure why it was failing because I think an orbit shot kind of like generates enough speed and it should be able to go up that ramp. But a couple of times it kind of went half up the ramp, then rolled down, and then trickled onto the playfield. So I guess it's just a matter of the machine being set up right, or maybe the shot being cleaner. I don't know. And do you know, I actually saw people getting that Katana ramp via that ricochet shot or whatever it is, more than the right feed that leads to the left ramp. Yeah. So, that's interesting. We'll let you know our review in like one month or whenever someone's nice in Melbourne. And code has been, new code's been released, it's now 0.82.
    80:18
    Yep, I was unable to open up the firmware and dive deep inside it because the Pimball browser needs the updates. I haven't checked back in the last couple of days, but maybe next week if it works we can go through some hilarious call-outs. Well, so speaking of code, it's been a bit of a coderama recently. So Batman 66 is now up to 0.94. Mm-hmm. Yes. One at a time. Another six months until at 1.0. I know. There wasn't... I think the only thing I could see in the read-me file was it added Robins Holly multiball mode. I think it's an option if instead of going to Batusi or something. Yes. You get to choose between the two. I don't know anything about Batmast 6. Aerosmith, though, had a... Oh, my God. It's a huge update. Out of the blue. Huge money. Out of the blue. So, this was just an incredibly big update. Not even being facetious here. It was actually massive. And you know what? I read every single line in the Read Me file. I started reading down and I kind of got a couple minutes in and then I just did that whole scroll thing. Like I'm almost at the end and I was probably about like a third of the way. I did exactly the same thing. I thought, surely I'm right at the end. Do I continue investing my time in this? And I scrolled down and I went, holy crap, I'm only halfway through. That's how big this code update is. And so some of the things that I noted that I think were important to me, there's probably all this other stuff that everybody loved that is important to them, but one thing I noted, and this is just in the pro, because one of the advantages that the Premium LE have over the pro is that you can get into Elevator Multiball easier because it counts a shot into the elevator as, well, the target in front of them as one of the hits. With this now, it will actually allow the top scoop to light an elevator lock. Instead of shooting the orbit, you mean? Yep. Okay.
    82:25
    But is that off by default? Default, no. Okay. So no one on site will ever touch that? Especially the one at Bassside will never be updated anyway. I know, it's still on the first code, isn't it? Something like that. Probably. And the other one was, well there's a couple, but one of them was Sweet Emotion. So this is the rule where you've got to complete all the shots within 30 seconds, and there was a lot of shots. So then now it's changed that. I think it's to make it easier. You're going to get six shots that are easy, and then it will open up six more difficult shots. So 12 shots will complete the mode. Okay.
    83:03
    Loving an elevator mode has also changed, the multiball. And I don't know, I mean I guess probably because it's so bloody hard to get into it because you've got to get, particularly on the pro, the right orbits. But when you get into this, I've never found elevator multiball to be very lucrative. So I think they've boosted this. Okay. Yeah. So also the default modes, the timers have increased, so Crank It Up won't extend the time anymore. Okay. And you'll find most of the tweaks of this really have been on the Medli and Final Tour Wizard modes.
    83:43
    Very, very interesting, Mark. Well, it is. I mean, I've actually played Aerosmith quite a lot, so I'm actually really keen to play it with new code. So we'll be coming your way, Jeff. Do you remember when I said that they were redoing the voices and Stephen Tyler was doing some call-outs from the machine? A while ago, yeah. That was just a shit rumour. That guy is no longer on my rumour.
    84:11
    He was just fucking with me. That's never going to happen. I know. But Stern probably had a good laugh. He'll be like, hey, email this guy. Speaking of fucking with you, any news from Dutch Pinball? Yes, we have an awesome bit of news from Dutch Pinball. Marty, would you like to read it really quickly because no one gives a fuck. No, I know. This was just the latest email of correspondents.
    84:32
    Here's an update of the conversation that took place between our attorney and ARA's attorney. The result of this first meeting is that there will be a second meeting to discuss with the greenhouse as a possible solution for the situation. We find this promising.
    84:46
    We've indicated that despite our trust being damaged, we're open for a solution outside of the courtroom. The attorneys have agreed that they will try to have contact within two to three weeks so they have time to discuss various solutions. We will send an update as soon as we have more news. Literally words that say nothing. Well, you know what it says is that I should invest in these companies, these law companies, because they're just creating more and more billable hours. And I'm sure their charge out rate is probably like 500 euros an hour or something. Let's have lunch again. Let's do this again.
    85:23
    Let's start with both our clients. Anyway. So, remember, I think it was two weeks ago that I said I talked to that dude that wanted to kind of remain anonymous but let me know about Monster Bash Remake? Yep. I have got him to agree to come on the show. Really? Yes. Okay. Would you... I'm going to give him a dial. Give me a sec. Okay. He's only agreed to talk to me, Marty, so... Okay, well, it's your contact. I'm okay with that. Yeah, okay, just mute your microphone. I will not let him know that I'm here. Okay.
    86:10
    So we have someone on the phone now. They're using a voice modulator to protect their identity. We don't know if it's a woman or a man. Hey, I can tell you I'm a 100% man. Okay, and what can we call you? What can we refer to you as? I need to keep my identity secret. Well, we know that you've got NDAs signed with almost every pinball company, so can we call you something like NDA Ned? Whatever tickles your fancy. Okay, NDA Ned. What can you tell us? A lot of people have been playing Monster Bash Remake in the last couple of weeks. Are you one of those people? For fuck's sakes, that's child's play. I've been playing that for years. Now they've made other losers. Like, give me a break. I was playing that whiteboard when it was originally made by George Gomez. I gave him the idea. You, okay. Okay, so you're pretty well connected. I mean, what can you tell us about the new iteration of it? I can't tell you that. Come on, you're coming on the show. Your voice modulated. You gotta tell us. No way, man. That's a secret. Please?
    87:18
    Okay, I'll tell you everything. What do you want to know? I mean, what else do you know? Do you know anything about Godzilla? Yeah, they made a slight change. A slight change on what? The original Godzilla used to terrorize Japan and Tokyo. This one terrorizes a small pinball company in Wisconsin. That's fucking harsh.
    87:50
    So, Charlie from Spooky Pinball has a podcast and he said on his podcast recently that he knows who is designing the game and that other podcasts will be clamouring to kind of find out. So, can you help us out with that information? No, wait, man. I can't tell you that. Please? Pins. Alright, I'll tell you. You thought Spooky got fucked with a license. I can tell you, every designer's gonna have their hand on it. It's gonna be like a bukkake all over Spooky. Oh, no, you can't tell me that.
    88:22
    I don't know about that, NDA Ned, but we've had a bunch of the guys from Stern On, and they're pretty nice guys. Like, Keith Elwin, he's a nice guy. I don't think he would do that. Oh, I can tell you things about Keith Elwin that'll make your head spin. Go for it, man. We're all ears. I can't tell you that.
    88:39
    Please! You know why Keith Elwin always wears shorts? Okay, Ned. Why does Keith Elwin always wear shorts? Because he wants us staring at his shorts so that you don't notice he has a fake beard.
    88:55
    You heard it here first. Keith Elwin has a fake beard, guys. It's a wig. Is there anything else you know about the pinball community? Any other imposters? Oh, I've got some good dirt on Stacey Borg. Stacey Borg, yep, friend of the show, co-host once as well. What can you tell us about Stacey Borg? No, no, I can't tell you that. I can't tell you that. Oh, come on, man. Okay, Stacey Borg, that's not even his real name. Okay, what's his real name and why would he have a fake name? He changed it to be like his favorite designer. His real name is Stacy Papaduke.
    89:38
    Another exclusive you heard it here first. Oktoberfest got announced on the weekend, Ned. What can you tell us about that? It's a great game. I played it a ton. Does it shoot well? Is it a bit more wide open than Houdini? I'll tell you this. It's the only thing with more boobs and pinball than this podcast. Speaking of boobs, what about Elvira 3? What do you know about that? Elvira 3? Give me your fucking break. I already know about Elvira 4. Okay.
    90:09
    You guys are boring me. I've got so many secrets that they're all going to stay right here. You'll never know. Well, Ned, we'd love to have you back if you'd like to come on the show and spread some more rumors and knowledge. Maybe another time. I've got to get out of here. I've got to make sure my spy cams are working at D-Boot. I'm out of here. Here you go, Ned.
    90:30
    There you have it, Marty. NDA. Hey, Ned. Papa G. Say, Papa G. I mean, this exemplifies what the Pimball, you know, podcast and stuff industry is like at the moment. Everything's meant to be secret. You just say please. You know, I'm not going to tell you anything. Please, come on. And then people steal their guts. So, yeah, we'll see if we can get him on the show again to get a bit more information. But, you know, some exclusives there. Some exclusives. Here you go.
    91:01
    What else have we got, Marty? Wow. It was hilarious. So, Steve Ritchie was interviewed. That was on the Special Enlit podcast. How'd it go? Yeah. Yeah, no, it was a really good interview, Marty. I was thinking of you while I was listening to it because I know Steve Ritchie is your man, your main man. Really good interview. I'm not going to talk much about the interview because I want you to listen to this. This is at the end of the episode 12. I'll link the Steve Ritchie interview in the show notes, but this is the next episode after that. And this just made me crack up unnecessarily. And I'm just going to play the end of it now on the phone.
    91:50
    and their community. Two Brothers Arjun Breen wants you to follow your passion and drink theirs. Pimball Brothers wants you to follow your passion and drink theirs. Marty, I'm a passionate guy. Will you drink my passion, Marty?
    92:08
    Not twice. Would you like two brothers to come over to your house? That's the wrong tagline, guys. I should have sent you a message, but I'm not sure if that's their tagline for the company or the company's tagline, but no one wants to drink someone else's passion money.
    92:32
    So, total nuclear annihilation, what I understand is that production is going to be limited to 550. Is this correct? Yeah, well not forever, just $500 for now. So I think they have to sell $50 or so more, maybe $50, $60. And then they kind of want to get Alice Cooper delivered within the date constraints that they set and then they might revisit it again. They never said it was going to be limited to anything so they can keep them making if they want. But, yeah, if you want a TNA delivered within the next kind of 18 months or two years, then you better give Charlie and KT a call. Yeah, cool. Bit of a follow-up on a story we were talking about a long time ago with the flip frenzy in Australia with people kind of agreeing to play one-ball games. That result finally went up on the IFPA website and it got awarded 33% TGP, So one third of the TGP because it got graded as being all one ball games, which I guess is better than it being kind of not up there at all.
    93:41
    Yep. So thank you everybody for highlighting Flip Frenzies. Well done. It's fixed now, Marty. It's fixed. It's just wins minus losses and that's it. Yep. Cool. So, Ryan, every morning when I wake up, the alarm goes off and the very first thought every morning goes to my mind. What's that thought, Matthew? Where's your Kickstarter book, Matthew? Okay, so maybe it's second thought or maybe like where's my Kickstarter watch or my Kickstarter headphones. Anyway, the question I ask is, where is the Star Wars topper? I don't know, Marty. We should ask it every week until it happens. Where is the Star Wars Topper? Because nobody's been asking that question. Nobody at all. This is breaking news. We're going to be the catalyst for this pitchfork uprising. Where is the Star Wars Topper? We need to, yeah. Hashtag where's the Topper.
    94:43
    Yeah, we can... Where's the SW Topper, right? Because there's a lot of Toppers that people are looking for, right? Where's the Iron Maiden topper? Yeah, but, you know, where's the code didn't just, you know, narrow it to one bit. It was all code. Like, hurry up with the code. Because all the code was fucked, right? Well, where's my Iron Maiden topper?
    95:03
    Would you actually buy my money? I don't know. Where is it? Hashtag, where's the topper? Okay, we're starting the hashtag.
    95:12
    That's so dumb. Okay. Time for the best segment to ever grace the Pimball Podcast Airwaves. What was it called, Marty? I've actually forgot what it's called. Social Media Watch. D-dun, D-dun, D-dun. Ryan, Marty, search all the social media accounts of all the popular pinball people so that you don't have to. You can play pinball instead. Here are the top social media stories over the last two weeks. Okay. Here we go. News just in. Deadflip is designing a pinball machine and he wants to be like Keith Elwin and get a job at Stern Pinball. He can actually say that, but... The subtext is there. Subtext is there. He wants to be their global ambassador. He wants to be the face of Pinball, but he also wants to be like Keith Allen because, let's face it, Keith Allen's pretty cool. He's pretty amazing, isn't he? So, yeah, and I've seen him, so he's sort of done his design, he's put like a cardboard one, and now he's starting to get wood.
    96:07
    Yeah, I saw a little video of him kind of flipping it in the virtual Pinball, and obviously it never flips as smoothly as nicely. You know, there's no kind of like clunk in the virtual world, but it looks pretty cool. I'm actually impressed.
    96:24
    Esher Lefkopf got to run from the hills. Run to the hills? Yeah, run. You are such a massive Iron Maiden fan. The hills are on fire, Marty. Fucking run away from the hills.
    96:36
    Yeah, he got to it. There was a bit of controversy, Marty, because he death saves a ball, but apparently he still got there before ball three, so it's okay. Whatever. I didn't watch the video because I'm definitely going to get there, like I'm going to get to Valinor and somewhere in the main show.
    96:57
    George Gomez, that was the oldest thing shown now on the stream, George Gomez shows the fourth wall thing.
    97:06
    He showed a bunch of Katanas and it was like Katana A and Katana B, but I don't know what they were. And it was one of those cryptic Facebook posts where you ask all the questions and he doesn't answer any of them. because it's like, let it simmer, baby. Let's let everyone just keep on talking about it. But yeah, there was a real katana and I think they were signed by him. So that couldn't be the topic, could it? Like two katanas on the top? A shortfall down and stab someone? I don't know.
    97:32
    The straight down the middle guys unboxed their Deadpool Pinball machine in under six minutes without a drill. That was pretty impressive. He was like, we did it in about half an hour. We did it in 30 minutes, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
    97:44
    Keith Elwin posted to prove that he was wearing pants. Yeah, but we didn't post the real pic, so. Yeah, yeah.
    97:55
    Marty, have you seen this? Okay, I'm going to send you a photo because I know you're not going to actually believe, all right, that you have Tim Sexton on Facebook, Marty? I don't know whether I do. Okay. Tim likes me. Tim likes you? Okay. He said I'm the one to like out of us too. Yeah, that was just your face. Manny, check your message. I just sent you a sentient.
    98:24
    Folks, this is not a joke. The doctors have found that I have an extra ball. So I just kind of like, you know, Facebook, you just like fucking like scroll past shit. I'm like, oh, okay, extra ball, like whatever. It's just like shitty joke. He actually went to the doctors and he has an extra ball, like three testicles. So, Marty, are you still there?
    98:51
    What do I say to this? Is it actually true? Yeah, he's got it removed now, but yeah, you know I've been trying to get Tim Sexton's girlfriends on the show to talk about Deadpool and Tim Sexton, right? Yeah. So I actually found one of them, and I'm going to quickly add it into the call now, okay?
    99:18
    Marty, mute your microphone, okay? Okay, I won't let it happen. This is another one-on-one conversation, okay? Okay.
    99:26
    So here we are with Brittany. It's Brittany. Okay, Brittany. Is it true that you are Tim Sexton's girlfriend? Tundo P is super hot. So how long have you known Tim for? Well, ever since he got a job at Stern, he has been a lot more desirable. But when I found out he had three balls, oh my god. Um, why does that make him more desirable? Well, I've been with heaps of guys that have two balls. I've been with two guys at once, so that's four balls. But three is a new number. It's like, yeah, so freaking kish, Team Three Balls is fly as fuck.
    100:24
    Oh, Jesus. Oh, God. Okay, Brittany, too much information. Have you let you into the secret room at Stern at the factory? Do you know any industry secrets at the moment? Wow. Tim is working on Godzilla and everything Tim touches is huge. Do you know what I mean?
    100:49
    Huge. Do you know what I mean? Okay, okay. I've heard enough, okay? I'm trying to say he has a dope-ass big pig.
    101:03
    Oh, gosh. There we go. That was Brittany. And I don't think Brittany, I don't know, I don't think she's seen Tim in the last week because Tim then upgraded his social media account to say that he got the ball removed. So he's now back down. This is no joke, guys. He's now back down to two balls. So we wish Tim the best in recovery. Steady recovery, man.
    101:28
    Yeah, I hope your relationship with Freddie works out despite downgrading yourself to two testicles like every other guy. I know, we all won three. Yeah, perfect match, right, with the chick from Tottenham Recall.
    101:44
    Anyway. Where do you go from that? Okay. I'm actually crying, honestly. I just, I just, I mean, I know it's true, but. Is it? Anyway, so that was Social Media Watch. What a fucking shit segment.
    102:10
    What are you talking about? That was the best segment. As you know, part of this podcast is, it went. You've got to understand, you've got to understand, in that segment, we updated people on the fact that Keith Elwin was actually wearing pants like he did.
    102:26
    He just wanted to fucking read the news, read this freaking Pimball. That's boring. Tim Sexton's ball is English. Keith, it's the hottest topic.
    102:36
    Okay, so competition time. So this was from a couple of weeks ago. We weren expecting it to have been two weeks but we did have a competition where we asked people to email us and tell us a potential title for the next Elvira Pinball machine and it was Elvira and the dot dot dot
    103:00
    Okay. Are we going to do one each or what are we going to do? Okay, we'll do one each. So the first one is from Michael and Michael gave us a lot of titles. So the first one he says, Elvira and the Master Baiter, which is a sequel.
    103:20
    Next one, Elvira and the Nautilus, a boatload of semen. Oh no. Elvira and the High School, in search of the Headmaster. Elvira and the Crypt Keeper search for the Golden Boner.
    103:41
    And Elvira and the Morning Stiffs. I see you left one out, mate. Not to you, yes. Some of these guys, we're not going to go religious or, you know, some of the other ones. There's some things that we're just sort of going to steer away from. Yes, okay. This one's from Daniel P. Elvira versus the politically correct D-Bags. Yes. Brian said Elvira and the big silver globes.
    104:14
    This one's from Richard A. Elvira and the boogie bogans from Down Under. This one, I just wanted to read out. I put the whole email here. So it says, Elvira's now 66, so her hard partying days are probably well behind her. So what's she doing now? At 66, she can't exactly be described as a MILF anymore, yet she's still a trifle too young to be joining the local Crown Green Bulls Club. But it's a well-known fact that many women of Elvira's age spend most of their time on the golf course. So add in the sprinkling of smut and you get Elvira's monster foursome.
    104:55
    As in because you yell out four when you're hitting the... Correct. And the Frozen could be made up of Dracula, Creech from the Black Lagoon and Tiger Woods.
    105:05
    Because he's kind of creepy. Oh, God. That was from Melbourne Minty. Thank you, Melbourne Minty. George J emailed in and said, Elvira and the Pimball Company Graveyard. Love it. Andrew said, Elvira does the new Prime Monster.
    105:24
    Oh, okay. Yep. I like that. Rob M. emails in and says a great name for Elvira 3 would be Elvira and the Monster Evolution.
    105:37
    Mainly the acronym EATME but also brings monster aliens and mutants into it. So the next two people, so Nick and Matthew, they all, they both had the same answer and that was Elvira and the Deep Root.
    105:51
    I like that. So Dave M. emails in and says, hey Ryan and Marty, regarding the next Elvira title, I reckon there could be an Elvira bash toy on a spring in the game, so maybe Elvira and the bashing boobies would make a great title. Really does, David. Boobies on a spring. Yep. So he says, Elvira and the low-hanging fruit.
    106:13
    Is that low-hanging fruit like testicles? Yeah, that's pretty much what it is. Yep, all bashing in the saggy boobs. I don't know.
    106:21
    And the next one? Kevin P. emailed in. I'm going to say it. That one was? Sagi bags. Sorry. Different. There's a difference there. And Anthony S. Elvira and the Enchanted Chest. I like that one. That's my favourite. I'm sorry we haven't even got to the end, but that's my favourite. Okay. Bruce emails in. This is a Bruce in the Santa place. It's a different Bruce. Um, Elvira and the poo joggers? What? What's a poo jogger? Do you not know what a poo jogger is? What's a poo jogger? I don't know. Okay. Here we go. Time out, guys. A poo jogger, right? So, I don't know whether this is just an Australian thing, but it's been on the news recently in Australia. There's literally people that go out jogging and they poo on people's doorstops. Yes. I think we talked about this, didn't we? Oh, okay. Maybe not on the podcast, but they are literally called Poo Joggers. And they busted, like I've actually seen a photo of this old guy literally being photographed just squatting over doing a fucking big turd. Okay, guys, don't go to Google and type in Poo Joggers and click images. Is this the old, this is the old dude going, what?
    107:47
    Where is this photo? There's a picture that said, do you know this person? And it's like, it's like a wanted poster. He took the photo. Did he stop and pose for the photo while he was taking his shit and then run off and they couldn't catch him?
    108:03
    I know the one you're talking about. Apparently he just casually got back into his car and drove off.
    108:08
    Fuck me. Two joggers. Two joggers. You are the heroes of the world right now. Oh no. So, um, I'm just scrolling through images. Okay. The last one. Please. The second last one. Okay. So this is from Dennis.
    108:30
    And, EclickedGamersPodcast, Dennis. Well, we're not saying who it is, but Dennis K. You know, we're not telling people's names, who they are. Email Dennis K at EclickedGamersPodcast.com. It could be anyone. It's the name proposed Elvira and the Tube Shot. Now, let me tell you why this is awesome, he writes. First, Tube Shot was a feature on Xenon, a game Paul Farris did art for. And now Paul will be working with Dennis, so a nice inside baseball reference there.
    109:02
    Tube Shot allows for all sorts of inappropriate call-outs dripping with innuendo, which of course we love. Oh, try Tube Shot. Similar to Xenon. Go for the tube shot. Work the tube. Load your tube.
    109:17
    And if the ball fails to complete, oh, it just dribbles out. Oh, no. That's okay. It happens to everyone.
    109:29
    Hilarious. And the last one? The last one's by Tim P. Alvira and the whores. Or Alvira and the nutsack. He thought long and hard about the whole one.
    109:45
    Oh no. Oh my god. So how are we going to generate a number, Marty? Yep. What's happening here? Yep. Okay. So how many are there? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 16 because Dennis said he didn't want to go in it.
    110:04
    Please generate a number from 0 to 16. All right. Four. Richard Anderson. So Elvira and the Boogie Bogans from Down Under.
    110:22
    Cool. So you'll be... What was it for? Critical Hick Pack. Remember this? Yes. Ah, that sweet critical hit sound. Rappin' sound. Okay. Hey, Marty, instead of waiting like five months for the next contest, let's just do another one straight away because this is one that David McKay generously donated and I totally forgot about it. So the prize is a flipper reveal kit. I'm sorry everyone that lives in the US or Canada or anywhere that is not Australia, this is being shipped by someone else and they said they would only ship it to Australia. So you will win a Bally Williams left and right flipper rebuild kit, which is very important because a lot of flippers suck. So the way to enter is email in headtoheadpinball at gmail.com, the number two in the middle, not T-O or T-W-O, and let us know what Bally Williams pinball machine from the 90s, the D&D era, because I don't know if these were 11 games, okay? What Pimble Machine suffers the most from weak flippers? Because I know a lot of Data East games you have like Hook where you can't make the ramp. Ballym games are pretty good aren't they Marty? Even when the flippers are weak there aren't that many games with insane ramps. But maybe we're missing one.
    111:44
    Let us know what games you've played maybe on site where you couldn't hit a ramp on a Ballym's game because of the weak flippers. And that's kind of integral for the game. So please let us know which game suffers the most and you will have probably like a 1 in 10 chance of winning a free Flip the Rebuild kit. Awesome. So speaking of competitions, we're in the top 100. Yes, Marnie. How'd we go two weeks ago? So I had Pirates of the Caribbean by Stern and you had Ripley's Believe It or Not. Yep, you won 57% of the vote and you got some hate mail as well, Marnie. Did you see that thing?
    112:23
    Someone wasn't very happy. So, I mean, I don't want to, you know, break the fourth wall here to you guys about this particular scenario, but we get chosen these machines and we have to argue our point. We're pretending to be lawyers, guys, who don't actually believe the things we say. I love Ripley's Believe It or Not. Admittedly, I find that the sounds on it, some of them are quite annoying, but I love that machine. I would absolutely have that over Pirates of the Cary in. Feel free to continue to send your hate mail towards Martin and let him know that his argument was total bullshit. But yeah, I still don't think that people will ever understand the statement of Martin.
    113:03
    They won't understand the what? They won't understand the segment. They don't understand that we are given the games and we'd lie through our teeth to try and win the competition. That's the segment. All we're really trying to do is we're trying to point out little minor niggles with these games and just explode them up in your face. Yeah. Okay.
    113:25
    Alright. Should we change it up this week and do one from the 100 to 200? Because I can't be bothered generating a number 20 times to get to the ones that we haven't done. Okay. Yeah? Should we do it? Go for it. Alright, just this week only. This will be fun. Please generate a number from 100 to 200. Coming right up.
    113:51
    137. Full throttle. You were first, right? That was you? No, no, no. We all know you were first. Oh, shit. Okay.
    114:08
    Please generate a number from 100 to 200. Sure. F***ing Avatar is higher up than Full Throttle money.
    114:19
    175. Oh, here we go. Big game. I didn't even know anything about that. I actually, that is a complete lie. Yeah? I do know that. Okay. Very much. Okay. Ah, I'm going to lose.
    114:35
    Because I could literally just say big game, big game, big game. People that don't know it will go, ah, sure. But people that know Full Throttle, oh, here we go. And you've got to go first. Let's limit this to a few.
    114:52
    Full Throttle by reputable pinball company, Highway Pimball. The estimated value of this beautiful pinball machine, because it's so rare, limits it to under like 100 production machines, is around $6,000, Marty. $6,000. It is a wide body with Flow, Flow City, designed by Dave Sanders, the mechanics by James Reese. James Reese, just brilliant. Brian Domeny did the software, he's still involved in pinball right now, Marty.
    115:22
    You race your little motorcycle around the track and you win and you enjoy this pinball machine full throttle.
    115:31
    Better than Demolition Man. Go for it mate, big game, Bucky fellas. Big game is not full throttle, that's probably the best thing I can say about it.
    115:48
    I played this when it came out, right? So it is a game from, I think, 80, 1980, and Harry Williams designed this game, and you know, he is a legend. So if you vote against this, you're voting against the legend that is Harry Williams. It's a great wide body game. It's a shoot the spinner game from Stern. Great sounds. I love this game. Besides the fact that it actually kicked my butt at Papa last year.
    116:19
    That's all you got, Manny. What are the rules, Manny? Just hit the spinner? Pretty boring. No, no, no. What you've got to try and do, and this is actually true, I'm not even looking at this. But top in lanes, light the right spinner and then just spin away, baby. And that's what happened. On my third ball, I had two house balls. On my third ball, I finally got that lit. As soon as it lit, straight down the middle.
    116:43
    Don't let Bruce and Ron from the Slam Tilt podcast fool you. This game is absolute rubbish. It's just like that old, was it Pioneer or whatever game we were talking about last time. This game encourages the mindless slaughter of beautiful animals. People out there say I'm an animal lover. Are you? Are you an animal lover? Or do you choose and select which animals you like? I only like cats and dogs, but you can go and murder this beautiful tiger, and that's fine because I don't have it as a pet, but I'm still an animal lover. No, you're not.
    117:20
    That's it. That is your argument. That's my argument. It's too green, Marty. Green is the shittest colour in Pinball, and this machine is just full of leaves and green. And, yeah. It's a great thing. But we're here to talk about big game. I love Ryan. Go for it. David Sanders is listening, Marty. And do you know what? David Sanders is great. And I've actually, I've always said I've loved his games on Virtual Pinball. I used to follow him religiously, I used to love what he released. Full Throttle.
    117:58
    Do you know what? Dave Sanders did actually design a great game. There you go. It just never worked. It never worked. The fact that they didn't have the rollovers was kind of awkward. It was just a rubbish theme. Like really a rubbish theme and they could have actually made that into something but it was just kind of a bit lame and... Talk about the theme of big game, Marty. No, we're only talking about full throttle here in my counter argument and we're talking about highway pinball. Just think about how many people have lost their money from... Nobody on throttle money. Not on full throttle. Well, no, because there's no support on full throttle. So what's actually happened is these machines are breaking down. No, these machines are breaking down and people can't repair them because there are no parts to repair them. So these games don't work. Therefore, ergo, they've lost their money, Ryan. All 10 people? Yep. Maybe 12 at a pinch. But this is the problem with this game is that I got to play it and I played it and I finally had that one game where everything happened for me. Unfortunately I got three balls stuck in the chute, which is what we're calling it now. Shoot the chute. And the game couldn't kick it out and then stopped and because it was on site and they didn't have the keys I had to walk away. Was this the one in Melbourne? Yep. There's one in Australia. I wonder who owns it. Do you know who owns it? No. But all I'm saying is, even when I had to turn that machine off and walk away, that was probably the best experience I had. Okay, mate. No, the walking away bit is what I'm talking about. Yes, yes. I guess I wasn't clear that walking away from Full Throttle was the highlight. And when I played it at Papa and 30 seconds into the game it froze and I left a note. We've told this story before. I left a note saying, blah, blah, blah, it's frozen and this game is shit.
    120:09
    So, shit, terrible. Vote for me, vote for justice. A vote for Marnie is a vote for the mindless slaughter of innocent animals worldwide.
    120:20
    I mean, do you know how big the game is? How big the game is? It's so big, when your ball hits a remote drop target in Perea, an earthquake warning goes out in Peking. It's so big it takes four sumo wrestlers to pull the plunger. It's so big the giant horseshoe kicker had to be broken in before it could be installed. It's so big the electronic jungle sounds can start a stampede in the nearest zoo.
    120:46
    Is this the flyer money? I'm not saying. Well, what's on the flyer of Full Throttle? Wait, wait. This game doesn't work. Full Throttle, Pimball. I know they didn't make a manual. Did they make a flyer? They did. They did, they did, they did, they did. Give me a second. It's got a chick on there, she has boobs. Skill, determination, commitment to be the best. You must prepare to go, prepare to go full throttle. And then it's got the chick with the big ass boobies. And then it's got the best tagline of all.
    121:18
    Game may be subject to change before production. Pimball in the fast lane, baby. Woo! That chick has really, really... There's some good nuggets. They're bolt-ons.
    121:33
    They also don't work. Thanks. That was a good one. Alright, you win, Matty. You win. Okay. Alright. Fuck, where did we go? This episode is all over the place.
    121:52
    This is what you waited for a week's haul. Yeah, this is what you waited for a week's haul. Should I go first, or are you in the boat first? What are you doing? No, look, I'll go first. Okay. So, just to explain, and the reason why I want to bring this up is because a lot of people have reached out. So, the reason why we didn't record last week because the night before we went to record I actually found out that my brother had passed away. He had a heart attack whilst he was driving. His daughter was in the car. He passed away. She survived with a bruise on her elbow. and I've literally had to fly up to Sydney and try and make funeral arrangements and it's just been a world of mess. It's just mess. Are you okay, Marty? I'm okay. I'm okay. I've had to deal with solicitors and governments and banks and all this kind of stuff. It's just been really busy. But it's not about me. We're really just focusing all on his daughter. She's 15 and what she's going through. But again, the reason why I wanted to bring it up is because people that heard about this reached out to me and a lot of people reached out to me. In particular, Pimball people, just random people that, a lot of people that I did know, but also people that I didn't know, reached out to me and gave me their condolences. and it was kind of like those moments where I kind of just went, fuck I love the pinball community. I really do because they just reached out.
    123:24
    And I'm not saying that some were better than others, but there was this moment when I got home. It was just the Tuesday, so I found out Sunday night, so the Tuesday. I got home that night and there was a bunch of flowers there on the kitchen and I went, oh my god, who are these from? Looked at the card, they were from Mrs. Pinn and Dr. Pinn.
    123:51
    Had sent me flowers. And right there, that's when I went, fuck I love Pimball. So, you are all awesome, thank you very much for your support. What did you do in your week? Ah, this is very easy to follow, Manny. No.
    124:06
    Why did you go first, Marty? What the fuck? Oh, I played in a couple of pinball tournaments. It was really cool.
    124:15
    Yep. I've seasoned the last two weeks. I've played in three tournaments. I came first in one of them. I beat Jordan Treadway, and that was the highlight of my pinball career. Yep.
    124:27
    Yep. And it wasn't because he played particularly bad. Like, I was a three-strike tournament, and I played really good, and he played really good. I just managed to play a little bit better than him in the games that he played.
    124:41
    It was the first time, I'm not going to go through a ball-by-ball play of what happened two weeks ago, but it was the first time ever, Marty, that I haven't been nervous to the slightest.
    124:53
    And I remember, I like talking about tournaments because, you know, it might be bad shit boring to 99% of people, But to me, it was something new and now it evolves and I don't want to talk about every little thing that happened in the game while I was playing, but all the stuff was new to me. And that's exciting because if you're in the pinball industry for 35 years, nothing is new to you. No pinball release is exciting. It's becoming like that now for certain things. I don't care about why I'm excited to play it now, but when it got announced, I had this stupid reaction to it. And the stupid reaction is because, you know, when you get older, you want new things.
    125:33
    So it was the first time ever, yeah, I remember, sorry, when I talked about when I was at Pinball Paradise once and I got into the finals, I think I was like playing one of the last games or I think the last game to come first, I think against Daniel Luth. And I could hear like the conversations happening behind me and it was like what my brain was focusing in on was a conversation behind me. I didn't know why that triggered at that moment. And I still don't know why. And I don't know what happened. I didn't go in and say, I've never gone into a tournament and say, oh, this is where I'm going to play like I play at home. It just happens. And I kind of didn't enjoy it. I know I'm just whinging, right? But yes, I won. I scored higher on Inmade in the final game than I scored the whole month that I had your Pinball machine.
    126:21
    And I wasn't excited the entire time. And that's because I was focused. But it's almost like I enjoy being nervous, you know, nervous, excited more. Yeah, fair enough. So I was like, ah, shit, okay, like, let's go to Bayside and play in that comp. And you were there as well. I was. This was about a week and a half ago, and I was like, okay, well, let's see if I'm going to play well but also be excited. And I played pretty well, but I wasn't excited at the same time either. It's kind of like the focus turns into like rage, like Ghostbusters rage. But you were at that comp. We both did pretty well. I qualified, I think, third. You qualified second. So we had a duel. You got to choose the game. Yes. I tried to strike you out. You chose Iron Maiden. We both played pretty average, but I managed to get the win off you. Aeroscopy, man?
    127:14
    No, we played Iron Maiden. This was the elimination, so you had to then beat someone else to get into the finals. I got put into the finals. Yes. I guess I just have Iron Maiden.
    127:26
    Iron Man, sorry. Ah, man. Iron, this is just too neat. I know. Now, okay, now I'm with you. Yep. So you managed to beat your person to get into the finals.
    127:37
    You played pretty well. You're in the upcoming seconds, correct? I came third, Jordan came first. Yeah, it was actually kind of close towards the end.
    127:49
    You know, of course, when it happens, everyone's like, oh, well, you know, Jordan's going to win. And he did win, but, you know, on Iron Man, he only beat me by about a million. And had he not beaten me, I think we might have actually been tied.
    128:03
    Yeah, it was close. The main thing I wanted to talk about, which I can't bother talking about now, is that I really dislike... After Bayside, that was two days after the Pixel Alley thing, and the Pixel Alley finished at about 1am. Right. Bayside finished at like quarter to one. Yep. And these tournaments are five to six hours long, and they're worth about 40% TGP. And I know TGP doesn't matter to some people, but I feel like if I'm investing that much time and I beat Jordan Sheridan away, it should be worth more than four offers or something. I don't know. After that day, I registered two tournaments myself. I'm just like, I'll run them the way that I want to run them.
    128:46
    Well, you know what, and so you should. And that's why I started Melbourne Silver Bowl League, because I was looking at the tournaments and I'm like, well, you know what, I'm sick of this having to spend four hours and play two games a night. And that's when the Selfie League sort of format came out. I was like, well, this is great because you can just go and play any time throughout the month as much or as little as you want. And then you've got to match play finals, which is, you know, four or five hours of solid playing. So that is exactly what I did, Ryan. I said, I don't enjoy those formats. Therefore, I'm going to run the format that I like. So I think that's a good thing. Yeah, I enjoy the formats. It's just, I mean, especially that Pixel Alley night, like everyone was playing good. Andre was playing good. Stu was playing. They were playing 1 billion point games on Guardians of the Galaxy. The bit that I think could possibly help is that we're not playing these machines in tournament mode, so there's random extra balls given out, and we're playing the extra balls. It's up to the tournament director, so I'm just having a whinge, but I just don't think that... If you're playing extra balls on certain games, it's like you might as well just say everyone play four balls, because it kind of, you know, certain games like Metallica for example, you bash on the, you know, the target a couple of times, the coffin, and you shoot the scoop and you've got an extra ball. I mean, you have to have a pretty bad game not to get an extra ball in that.
    130:07
    So, if you can't take, you don't have the keys, can't turn ball save off, but, yeah, anyway. The two tournaments that I've registered is Hashman's Meat, right, it's a secret location. I put it up on Aussie Arcade and I said 28 people only, I think within two days those were all gone. That's going to be a really awesome meet. You're going to come to that. I hope you can stream it if you want money. Yeah, sure. If you've got your camera set up by then, it's going to be a really fun tournament.
    130:34
    Avatar is going to be there, Marty. Yeah. And I also registered a flip frenzy for two reasons. There's a Melbourne match play coming up, a very big tournament, the biggest tournament in Melbourne over, I think, four days. They are not doing a flip-rending and there hasn't been one in Melbourne this entire year. So I registered it for Pimball Paradise. It's a 20 bucks. I'll put a link in the show notes. About half a ticket sold already. I put it up about two days ago. I'm pretty sure it's going to sell out.
    131:06
    I hope it works out well because I can continue to run it like Netherworld does it every month or two months.
    131:12
    Well, I'd rather help run it than play in it. Well, I was about to say, because you're going to be running Flip Frenzy at Flipout, so it'd be good for you to get a fresher course on it. Yeah, for sure. Do you want to come down and run? Yeah, for sure. You can run the whole thing and I can play, might I? I want to play. Why not? As soon as I register it, I'm like, oh yeah, Flip Frenzy, you can't play when you run this thing.
    131:38
    Yeah. That's it for tournament stuff. What else have we got? I got my Addams Family came in. I told my little girl V, she didn't give a shit. My three-year-old, obsessed. She plays Rizz of Oz and that's it, and Fish Tales when I had it. She played for about two hours, Marty. I didn't say, hey, let's go do this thing else now. I just let her, and she just kept on pressing start. I was like, wow, this is why, it's one of those light bulb moments. It's like, this is why this is the most popular Pinball machine of all time. She was humming along. She'd never watched Adam's Academy before. She didn't know what any of these things mean. She's three years old. She's dumb. She's a little, dumb kid.
    132:23
    She was, like, after, like, three or four games, when the bonus sequence was happening, she was like, da-na-na-na, clap, clap. Like, how brilliant is that of a Pinball tune that a three-year-old assimilates with it after three or four games? Yep. That's how good it is. Yeah. The rules are average. I quickly realised that.
    132:48
    Yeah, it's the most disgusting. It was never meant to be. It wasn't falsely advertised or anything. I knew what I was getting into. It's got a lot of kind of stuff that needs fixing, but it needs a new playfield. I've got the new playfield. I've got a CPR goal playfield that came with it. The only thing is that everything else is also dirty. Everything works, but you can't put a play field on there. You need a strip club. I need a strip club.
    133:18
    Okay, do you reckon we can feel for free? Have we done enough podcasts for people to get our humour to understand strip club yet, or is it still a bad thing? No, we're going to get lots of hate mail after mentioning the word strip club, especially our horrible logo. So, yeah, it needs, you know what I mean? It'd be like getting a new car and then, like, taking a dump on the seats or something.
    133:42
    I know, I can totally relate to that scenario. What? Okay. Like, if I put a brand new playthrough in there, it'd be, like, shiny and gleamy and it would look really nice. But then everything on top of the playthrough is, like, old and shitty. Like, the Star Posts are, like, all fucking fucked up. It's just, it's... I can show you a picture of Mario and you will laugh. Well, you know, I didn't do any close-ups, but I could show you my Jurassic Park before and after. I did go to Lucas's and strip it down. Did you put all the new plastics in there? No, I always them.
    134:15
    The plastics? Yep. Okay. It came up, and the ramps, everything. It just came up beautiful. And I literally, like, you know, I sanded every single bit of metal there, and it was just shiny. It came up beautiful. And he did it in like a day or something, right? Yeah, I think we did probably, I don't know, seven, eight hours.
    134:36
    Have a look at the photo they just sent you, Marty. That's the mansion area. Yeah, you're fucked. You can't even read what half the inserts say. No, you're fucked.
    134:48
    I'm like, I wonder what this is going to be because I don't know that. I haven't found me off by heart. I can see Rays are dead.
    134:53
    But that's about it. Dude. As I said, the guy who sold it to me. No, but you've got any... Really, really nice guy. I don't want to put any shade on it. It was one of the best transactions ever. Anyway, I'm blabbing on a bit, but I got Dirty Harry left. Dirty Harry, do you think it's a popular pinball machine, Marty?
    135:15
    I think at the price you put it up, yes. Okay, I put it up for 4.6. Okay, I was selling it for a friend. I thought that that might have been overs, because I don't really know what Dirty Harry's go for. Well, six or seven people, I'll take it. I'm like, what? I could have listed it up for more for it. When I saw you put it up for six, I went, oh, dude, it's probably a bit light.
    135:40
    Yeah. I'm really upset now that I sold it because, as I said, when I sold it to the mobile machine, I wanted to be done with it forever. But Dirty Harry, okay, it shoots really well. It shoots better than Anzfan. It's more fun for me to shoot that than Adam's Family. Absolutely. The software, you know, like, I really feel like all these companies are putting so much effort into signing these new layouts and all these cool, like, new things. Just copy Dirty Harry 100% and just make good rules and better sounds. Because, like, it's the diverters, it's the gun.
    136:18
    I mean, multiball is, like, boring. You shoot a jackpot, you shoot a super jackpot, jackpot, super jackpot. Anyway, Dirty Harry. Good game. I got, yeah, this is pretty boring. Hey, I'm done. There's something else, but I can't bother. No, it's just going to be boring. We're done. Yep. So if you want to get in touch with us please email us headtoheadpinball at gmail.com. Don't forget that competition that we had before. Go to our Facebook page, go to Twitter, go to Instagram, go wherever you want.
    136:54
    We done? We are done. See you everyone. See you mate. Do you know what I was going to tell you?