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The Spinner Is Lit - Episode 6: Pinball Show the Love

The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·58m 39s·analyzed·May 29, 2017
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Pinnagogo recap, Batman '66 review, Embryon showcase, and rumor mill on JJP4 and Stern's upcoming titles.

Summary

Spencer and Seth Holder discuss their experience at Pinnagogo pinball show (270+ games, positive attendance), review Batman '66 (praising theme integration but criticizing high price point of $9,000-$15,000), showcase Embryon as game of the week (rare 1980 Bally wide body with unique mechanics), and speculate extensively on upcoming manufacturers' pipelines: Jersey Jack Pinball's fourth title (Toy Story, Pirates of the Caribbean, or Muppets rumored) and Stern's next releases (Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy).

Key Claims

  • Pinnagogo reached peak of 270 games on Saturday

    high confidence · Spencer, episode opener discussing show highlights

  • Batman '66 LE editions are limited to 120 machines per series (240 total LE), with first series named after Batman episodes and second series after Bat-gadgets

    high confidence · Seth, discussing Batman '66 variants and edition limits

  • Batman '66 price range is $9,000-$15,000 across Pro/Premium/LE tiers

    high confidence · Seth, researching Batman '66 pricing models

  • Dark Knight Batman pinball is available used for around $8,000, compared to Batman '66 Premium at similar price

    medium confidence · Spencer, comparing Batman '66 to Dark Knight as budget alternative

  • Embryon (1980 Bally wide body) had approximately 2,200 units produced, with fewer than 1,000 estimated playable examples remaining in the US

    medium confidence · Seth, discussing Embryon rarity and collectibility

  • Northwest Pinball Show (March 9-11, Tacoma WA) will feature approximately 400 total games (pinball and arcade combined)

    medium confidence · Spencer, citing organizer information from earlier in week

  • Jersey Jack Pinball likely secured licensing for Toy Story, Muppets, and/or Pirates of the Caribbean, with announcement expected October 2017 for summer 2018 release

    medium confidence · Seth, speculating on JJP4 licensing and release timeline based on Dial-In announcement pattern

  • Willy Wonka received 91 of ~500 votes (18%) on Stern Kapow survey, making it top vote-getter for next Stern premium release

    medium confidence · Spencer, citing Pinside poll data from survey that circulated late 2016

  • Star Wars is Stern's next major release (referred to as 'Nick Stern is Star Wars' with high confidence in rumor)

    high confidence · Seth and Spencer, treating as near-certain in casual discussion

Notable Quotes

  • “There's always room for one more game.”

    Spencer @ opening segment — Running joke about collector mentality and space constraints

  • “The price will always be an issue for me on that it just it would literally have to be the most epic best pinball machine on the planet for me to consider the price point that it sits at.”

    Spencer @ Batman '66 review — Core sentiment on premium pricing; represents collector skepticism about value proposition at $9k-$15k

  • “Multiball is the big weakness of this game...once you're there, there is no reward other than you have two bright and shiny balls traveling around the playfield.”

    Seth @ Embryon review — Technical critique of Embryon's rule design; suggests potential for homebrew/software improvement

  • “J.K. Rowling was absolutely dead set against pinball machine being licensed for the Harry Potter license.”

    Seth @ JJP4 rumor mill — Unverified licensing claim that constrains JJP4 possibilities

  • “Batman '66, the Batmobile was coming off of the spinner platform and blocking you know so where the spinner couldn't spin”

    Spencer @ Stern quality discussion — Quality control concern about Batman '66 at Pinnagogo; deflected as travel wear and glue quality issue

  • “They announced – they announced – they dialed in, what, in October of last year, and it's now just starting to ship. So the guess is that this October they'll announce the next title.”

    Seth @ JJP4 timing speculation — Pattern recognition about JJP announcement cycles

  • “There's no end in sight, which makes me, you know, always goes back to can we really, our little hobby and our little coin op friends really support the sheer number of titles that are coming out?”

    Spencer @ Stern pipeline discussion — Market saturation concern; questions sustainability of rapid release pace

  • “My recommendation is stop buying your glue at the dollar store”

Entities

SpencerpersonSeth HolderpersonRustypersonMopersonStevepersonChris Kouros (aka Kaneda)personJoe KamenkopersonJersey Jack GuarnieripersonStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinnagogo reportedly achieved 270+ games peak attendance on Saturday with solid crowd size matching prior year; positive feedback from first-time attendees and local collectors acquiring new machines

    high · Spencer: 'We hit, I think, 270 games by at some point on Saturday' and 'crowds were real solid. We're probably where we were last year in terms of attendance.'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Batman '66 LE structured with 240 total LE units (120 per series) named after episodes/gadgets creates scarcity appeal; perceived as premium collectible

    high · Seth: 'limited edition is like two series of 120 each...first series of 120 is each machine is named after one episode...second series is each machine is for one bat gadget'

  • $

    market_signal: Batman '66 price point of $9,000-$15,000 creates buyer resistance despite positive gameplay reception; collectors considering $4,000-$5,000 Dark Knight as alternative value proposition

    high · Spencer: 'the price will always be an issue for me...would literally have to be the most epic best pinball machine...I'm looking at it and I'm thinking it's a pro [machine]...not at that price'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Significant speculation about Jersey Jack Pinball's 4th title (JJP4) with Toy Story, Pirates of the Caribbean, and Muppets as leading candidates; community consensus expects announcement October 2017 for summer 2018 release

    medium · Seth: 'the rumor mill feels confident that JJP has already secured the licensing for these titles. So it may just be about timing...the guess is that this October they'll announce the next title'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.176

0:00
Welcome to episode 6 of the Spinner is Lit Pinball Podcast. Tonight's episode, Pinball Show the Love. I'd like to welcome my co-host, Seth Holder, to the show. Hey, Seth. Hey, Spencer. Happy to be here.
0:17
Awesome, awesome. All right, well, let's jump right into it. Get started tonight. Pinnagogo, last weekend. yeah well what what is the phrase that the kids are saying now uh plag or pag lag or pag lag whoo it's been a it's been a couple days and i'm still uh exhausted um but uh man what what a good show that we had a lot of heat but we also had a lot of games and a lot of people. We hit, I think, 270 games by at some point on Saturday. That was, I think, our peak.
0:58
And we still had some games that weren't checked in, but good showing on games. The crowds were real solid. We're probably where we were last year in terms of attendance. A lot of people having fun.
1:12
Yeah, no, that's the takeaway from it is I didn't talk to anybody that didn't have a good time. talked to a lot of first-time attendees, some different people I invited, some clients, you know, showed up with their families. And, you know, I got a lot of feedback this last week, all really positive. And everybody's really excited for the next show. And, of course, now I got a lot of people asking me, how do I get my first game? Right. That's a good place to be.
1:43
Yeah. And then I think we all, every one of us in our local group, all came home with more games than we brought. Right.

  • Guardians of the Galaxy is the likely next Stern release after Star Wars

    medium confidence · Spencer, citing personal connections and insider information ('not over the internet but in person')

    • Seth @ Stern quality discussion — Humorous deflection of quality concerns; suggests manufacturing edge-cutting

    Jersey Jack Pinball
    company
    American Pinballcompany
    Comet Pinballcompany
    Batman '66game
    Embryongame
    Dark Knightgame
    Dial-Ingame
    Pinnagogoevent
    Northwest Pinball Showevent
    Rocky Mountain Pinball Showevent
    California Extremeevent
    Coin-Opvenue
    Electric Bat Arcadevenue

    licensing_signal: Unverified claim that J.K. Rowling opposes Harry Potter pinball licensing; if true, eliminates Harry Potter as JJP4 candidate despite community interest

    low · Seth: 'I'd read or heard somewhere...that J.K. Rowling was absolutely dead set against pinball machine being licensed for the Harry Potter license. But I don't know if that's really the case'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Both hosts treat Star Wars as Stern's next release with near-certainty, framing it as confirmed rather than rumor

    high · Seth: 'Nick Stern is Star Wars. Okay, let's move on.' and Spencer treating it as foregone conclusion

  • ?

    machine_intel: Spencer claims personal connections indicate Guardians of the Galaxy is likely next Stern release after Star Wars; described as coming 'soon'

    medium · Spencer: 'I've heard from my connections, so not over the internet but in person, that that is most likely the next Stern after Star Wars. So I think your wish is going to come true from Stern. We're going to see a Guardians of the Galaxy pin probably released or announced soon'

  • ?

    product_concern: Batman '66 at Pinnagogo experienced Batmobile mechanism failure (coming off spinner platform); attributed to vendor machine's heavy travel use and glue quality rather than systemic defect

    medium · Spencer: 'the Batmobile was coming off of the spinner platform and blocking...the spinner couldn't spin' vs. Seth: 'my recommendation is stop buying your glue at the dollar store'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Spencer expresses concern about market sustainability given rapid rate of new releases (Star Wars, Guardians, Guardians, Elvira, Willy Wonka, etc.) across multiple manufacturers

    high · Spencer: 'There's no end in sight, which makes me...can we really, our little hobby...really support the sheer number of titles that are coming out?'

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Seth recommends cold white LED upgrades for space-themed machines like Embryon due to thematic synergy; positions as collector best practice

    medium · Seth: 'it's one of those games...you don't want to put LEDs in, but it's one of those games...that really looks good if you put some nice cold white LEDs in there. It really kind of makes it pop out'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Embryon (1980 Bally wide body) positioned as highly desirable rare collectible with ~2,200 original production, <1,000 estimated playable remaining; Seth recently acquired after long search; Rusty expressed strong interest after single play session

    high · Seth: 'It's really hard to find unless you're willing to ship it from far away...There's less than 1,000 left in the United States that are playable' and 'Rusty played one...fell in love with it instantly...whatever Rusty wants Rusty gets'

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinnagogo generated positive word-of-mouth with all attendees reporting good experience; event led to multiple local collector acquisitions and first-time attendance; non-profit shows (Pinnagogo, Northwest) benefit community scholarships/outreach

    high · Spencer: 'I didn't talk to anybody that didn't have a good time...everybody's really excited for the next show...every one of us in our local group...came home with more games than we brought'

    • 1:52
    Another good place to be. Yeah, exactly, except now we're all running out of room. That's right. There's always room for one more. I still have plenty of room. I have nothing in the garage. I mean, you know, garage stuff.
    2:09
    But the game room is getting full. So, all right. Well, let's move on to our game review. Tonight's game review by both of us is Batman 66 because we both finally got a chance to play it.
    2:27
    Yeah, you know, I'll be honest with you. I didn't actually play it this last week at the show. But I did play, I don't know, four or five games with Mr. Practical Steve when we went down to Banning a month or so ago. So I'll have to go back into the memory banks a little bit. But what was your initial take on it, just from a thematic integration kind of standpoint?
    2:53
    Theme integration I thought was excellent. I could hear it okay, a little better, late Saturday evening, you know, about 11 o'clock.
    3:03
    My lovely wife, Rusty, and I played some on it and had a real good time. I got about five games on it over the weekend. You know what? I really had fun playing it. I really enjoyed playing it. It seemed to work fine. Yay. You know, the shots were not overly difficult. I mean, it was a nice balance. Not too easy, not too hard.
    3:24
    You know, after actually playing with the rotisserie turn style thing, I don't fully understand all the features on it, but I thought it was fun.
    3:36
    You know, the crane, I know it's been done in the past, but it was still fun shooting the ball, you know. Overall, great theme integration. I love the theme anyway, and I had a lot of fun playing it. Down the road, love to have one in the game room.
    3:51
    Yeah, I would – Batman is my favorite DC comic, so I'll say that the theme is a good theme for me. I like the nostalgia of the Batman 66. I just sitting there and trying to learn how to play it wasn't super intuitive but I do feel that the game helped you along the way in terms of where you're shooting at I thought the LCD was a nice change the way they integrated all the clips and sounds was good I enjoyed it the price will always be an issue for me on that it just it would literally have to be the most epic best pinball machine on the planet for me to consider the price point that it sits at. And I don't necessarily think that the price point is going to get, I don't think we're going to see these at $4,000 or $5,000 10 years from now. I think it's always going to be a premium pin. You know, I didn't know a lot about it. I kind of looked it up because I was like, okay, I know there's like, you know, a premium, and I know there's like, what, an LE and then like a super LE. and so that the range there right is like somewhere between nine or ten thousand and fifteen thousand i think for those three different models yeah yeah so i wasn't sure like okay well what's you know what's the extra five thousand or extra two thousand get you so i was kind of looking around i had to really hunt around to try to find information on like what's the difference between the different editions and really at the end of the day it looks like the gameplay is pretty much the same across the three that you're really buying you know um better lighting more toys um shaker motor uh which is available in the top two editions um this the limited edition is like two series of 120 each i don't know if you knew this um so i guess there was 120 batman episodes so the first series of 120 is each machine is uh um named after one episode right i had read that just recently yeah i had never read that and then like the second series is uh each machine is for one bat um gadget so i was like oh okay and then there's the 80 super limited edition ones right right and you bring up the price point and that's it for me because you The one at Pentagogo was a premium.
    6:27
    And you also brought up real quick the display. I like the size of the display that there's still a real trans light there because it's such an important part of pinball and pinball history. I'm glad to see that that part of the real estate wasn't completely taken up by a monitor. But I think the LCD is the perfect size. And for the price point Again I really like it And I really enjoyed playing it And I'd love to have one But at the price point I'm looking at it And I'm thinking I see a pro here I've always said that from the beginning And I'm standing by that statement Because of what's there Gameplay wise And what's on the play field Yeah what I'd like to do Actually is go play Dark Knight now And I know it's not the exact same game but there's a lot of elements that are. And I'm curious, if it scratches the same itch, you know, is that the better way to go, spend $4,000 to $5,000, I think is what a Dark Knight goes for these days. Yeah. Versus maybe $8,000 used, I think, for a routed premium. So, yeah, I'm with you there.
    7:41
    Yeah, at that price point, you know, Dial-In is available new in the box. Right. Yeah, absolutely. But still, yeah, you know, again, fun game I'm glad there's one on location here You know, in the Sacramento area Which I still haven't got down to play So Is it Coin-Op that has one? Yeah, Coin-Op has I believe they have an LE And I just, you know, I actually thought about getting there today But, and then, you know, it's a nice 3A weekend And, you know, family stuff going on And, you know It's just like, eh, I'm home now Yeah, yeah so um you are our game of the week and this is a new weekly thing because this week we're kind of doing two but our game of the week um you happen to be the proud owner of one the embryon correct the valley embryon the last the last of the original valley wide bodies. Yeah, not to be confused with the super pens that came out in the 90s, right? Correct, sir. Yeah, it came out in September of 80, I think is when it was first started, and I think it came out to the public by 81. But yeah, you're right, there was five other bally wide bodies, so it was like the last one going in. I think it started with Paragon and then Hot Dog and Future Spa Space Invaders and then it ended with Embryon. So it was the last of that generation from Bally.
    9:26
    Super cool graphics package. Alien egg incubation. Can't go wrong. Great cabinet art. It's got the silver body which is kind of nice in that era when a lot of cabinets were black or blue.
    9:46
    It kind of stands out. Really have been enjoying the game. It's a game that I've wanted for quite some time and really hard to find unless you're willing to ship it from far away. So was excited to get it.
    10:01
    And it's one of those games where it doesn't click for everybody. especially for DMD modern pen guys they're going to feel that it's slow but for those of us and I think you're in this camp that like just about every pinball machine from EM on up I think it's got a ton of interesting features and rules that make it very replayable for me and then you combine that with the sweet theme and it's a keeper for me Oh definitely I'm really in trouble now on that Because Rusty played One at another fellow collector's house A while back You know The notorious and mysterious Mo Yeah She fell in love with it instantly And said I want this You know Whatever Rusty wants Rusty gets So who am I to argue with the lady right Yeah absolutely You know, it's one of those pins that not a lot of people get to see it out in the wild. It's almost never on location, and I think they only made maybe 2,200 units of it. And so I don't know how many have survived over the last 40 years, but, you know, a good ballpark figure would be there's less than 1,000 left in the United States that are playable. So super fun pin. You know, it's got some interesting mechanisms. There's not one, not two, but three different ways of earning extra ball. It's got lots and lots of drops.
    11:40
    It's got a spinner because every good game needs a spinner that can be lit. It's got a captive ball. It's got – The cool multi-chamber captive balls. There's, what, five of those in there or something? Yeah, well, there's an embryon center toy that you bash a captive ball and it kinetic energy transfers to two more balls, which then can – if you hit them right, it will go up and hit stand-up stationary targets and help you when you're trying to spell out the word embryon, which gives you all sorts of opportunities to get into multiball, which I would say multiball is the big weakness of this game. And if any programmers are out there listening and are looking for a project for the next six months, writing an update to the software to give some sort of reward for going into multiball would be amazing. Multiball is not easy to get into. and once you're there, there is no reward other than you have two bright and shiny balls traveling around the play field. There's no multiplier, there's no jackpot, which I think is pretty standard for this era of game, but at least a multiplier for the points that you earn while in multi-ball would be a really nice reward and make that a more interesting thing to shoot for. yeah um i i think i'm i got multi-ball last time i was uh playing it um that was just so many games there you know so much fun so but i you know i really enjoy it and it's a game that you know for our listeners um you know seek it out if you know somebody that has one if you go to a show and there's one uh don't miss an opportunity to try it out because it's really a unique and fun game. Absolutely. And it's got really cool artwork, you know, kind of in a similar vein of like you talked about, like Space Invaders, Xenon, but in that kind of vein, but different and unique in its own right. So it's got a great art package. I love the colors on it. Yeah. Especially when you, it's one of those games that's, you know, I know there's purists out there, but some of the older games you don't want to put LEDs in, but it's one of those games partially because of its science fiction theme that really looks good if you put some nice cold white LEDs in there. It really kind of makes it pop out. A wise man once told me, always use cool white games that are space related. Right. So I peeded that advice. Sage advice. Sage wisdom from a righteous Timbal dude. You know, I kind of went out of order here. I'm sorry about that. but my notes are kind of jumbled because I kind of jumbled living on the edge Man I am living on the edge constantly You know trying not to you know break the space continuum and just having a blast here tonight at the Kitchen Table Studios. Okay, so upcoming shows. Very exciting stuff, even though I'm not going to be going to at least one of them. So my show Is the first show up on our list Or the next one I know of Especially on the west coast Is the Northwest Pinball and Game Room show And that's coming up June 9th 10th and 11th At the Tacoma Convention Center In Tacoma, Washington They've got a heck of a lineup of Pinball dignitaries Including Steve and Mark Ritchie John Yossi John Trudeau Jersey Jack Guarneri, I think I got his name right Butch Peel And David Seal, all from Jersey Jack Pinball Greg Ferreres Tim Kitzrow Who's a voice actor Who's worked on games such as Twilight Zone AFM Attack from Mars Shadow NBA Fast Break The neat thing about this show Like our local show It's a non-profit it and the proceeds go to uh some of the proceeds go to scholarships and to pinball outreach which i thought right on man that's cool so that's coming up and i think i have i just got to pull up some more show notes and i think i have one or two more uh show notes going here but um well this uh actually i can't pull them up right now because it'll take too long and i don't want to waste show time but yeah so that's going on and check it out man if you're in the Pacific Northwest area if you're near Tacoma Washington check out the Pacific Northwest show because again it's a pinball and video arcade game show and it's in your neck of the woods that's the other thing I want to talk about of course they're going to have a couple of dialed ins there Houdini's going to be there from American Pinball And they're going to have Alien Pinball there So We missed out on that Unfortunately with Pinnagogo but there was so much other good stuff I don't think anybody even noticed So if you're looking to check out Alien or any of those other games Up close and personal The Northwest Pinball Show And that's NWPinballShow.com Yeah I've heard nothing but Awesome things about that show I definitely hope to make it up there one of these years for it. Do you have an idea of size, number of pinball machines, anything like that? You know, the information I got from one of the organizers today was around 400 games. So I don't know if that's pinball and arcade total. Right. But, you know, even if you split that in half, that's at least 200 pinballs. So, you know, and I mean, it's always cool to see vintage arcade games as well. Oh, heck yeah.
    17:51
    Nothing bad there. Well, you know what's funny about that particular show? It's, what, June 9th through the 11th? Yeah. It is the exact same weekend as the Rocky Mountain Pinball Show in Game Room Expo just outside of Denver, Colorado. So it's another show that's sharing that same weekend, but they're probably separated enough geography-wise that it doesn't split the attendees up.
    18:23
    I'm actually looking forward to that show because I actually have to travel for work and will be in Denver that weekend. So I'm going to go up a day early and check this particularly awesome show out. It looks like a show that's been going on since 2004, so it's the 13th year it's been going on. Right now they've got about 140, 150 pinball machines already signed up. It looks like a really kick-butt show. A lot of good vendors are going to be there.
    18:56
    Comet Pinball will be there. I think this might be a home show for them. Lots of good pins on display. So I'm looking forward to going and checking out a new show for the first time and seeing what it's all about up there in the Denver area, June 9th. Lucky. Lucky, I know.
    19:15
    And so that's the two June shows that are on our list. And then right after that, coming up in July, we've got another local Northern California show, July 29th and 30th. So it's a Saturday, Sunday in Santa Clara, California. So it's right outside the Bay Area or inside the Bay Area. It is going to be at a Hyatt there in Santa Clara. So it's a convention show. It is California Extreme.
    19:48
    So they are your typical pinball and video game show. It's a show that celebrates all things arcade. the guys that put it on do an amazing job they've been doing it for quite some time they share out these massive collections that they've built and work with the public to get more of the machines in there I went two years ago it was the last time I went I had a really good time stayed in the hotel so that was really nice to be able to just walk downstairs and pop into the show go back upstairs, take a nap etc etc um it's an interesting feel in there so um you know there's um two kinds of shows you know there's the the hotel convention center kind of shows that are kind of in these giant rooms and then there's more of the the laid-back um state fair type like pentago go um type shows that are or more kind of kickback type feel. This show is definitely the former, but they always make it interesting. The last show I went to there, there was no like typical rows. It was like a maze to work your way around in that building. So it was, you know, you needed a map to get from point A to point B in there. But it kind of made it interesting. You're always kind of exploring in there and finding new stuff as you went around the edges and worked your way to the middle. lots of good pins show up there they had things like Kingpin and Big Bang Bar Marco was there with the latest Stearns so lots of good selection, lots of things to see another great show, so I've got reservations again to go to it this year still on the fence if work is going to let me or not but hopefully I can make at least for a day over there and check it out You know what I've never gone And I keep saying I'm going to go every year And just you know It's my busy season This whole work thing keeps getting in the way Pinball and the podcast You know it's been nearly a month Since we've done an episode And you know I'm just glad we've got time tonight To get a new one out For all eight of our fans So I know more people are listening And thank you to all the listeners that are out there listening. It sounds like a great show, you know, and I've talked to a lot of other people who really enjoy going and say, yeah, you know, it's kind of the premier all-in-one, you know, vintage arcade and, you know, pinball show to attend. It's really a blast.
    22:40
    So what's up next? What's up next? The rumor mill New segment alert The rumor mill Jersey Jack pinball Game number four What do we all want it to be?
    23:00
    Well You asked that question You're going to get at least a half a dozen Responses back and they'll be Fairly colorful Responses Not a lot of people People agree there's not a plurality out there, but there's a ton of people screaming for Princess Bride and for Harry Potter and a whole slew of other themes. But I don't know. What ones are you seeing as – not what people are wanting, but what ones are you seeing broadcast as the likely title? Well, I've been hearing Toy Story, which I know has got you really excited, and me too.
    23:47
    People bring up Harry Potter, and I'd read or heard somewhere, I think I read it somewhere some time ago, that J.K. Rowling was absolutely dead set against a pinball machine being licensed for the Harry Potter license. But I don't know if that's really the case. I don't know if you listen to any other podcasts lately. But Chris Kouros, I hope I got his last name right, aka Kaneda, on a recent episode had batted out the idea that he'd been hearing rumblings of a new pirate to the Caribbean game. Yeah, that seems to be the leading contender when I search around on Pennside and Google groups is that most people feel that the most viable candidate is either going to be Toy Story or Pirates of the Caribbean or Muppets. From a licensing perspective, the rumor mill feels pretty confident that JJP has already secured the licensing for these titles.
    24:58
    So it may just be more about timing. They announced – they announced – they dialed in, what, in October of last year, and it's now just starting to ship. So the guess is that this October they'll announce the next title. So we'll see what makes sense for a summer of 2018 perspective to ship.
    25:27
    People will point to the Muppets and say, well, ABC just canceled that. It didn't make it past one season. But then other people will say, yeah, but it's the Muppets. It's a huge nostalgia thing. There's lots of things that have been canceled. That doesn't mean that it's a property that shouldn't be touched. And I'm guessing Disney will continue to be motivated to make that property in people's homes and on the shows. So I don't think they're distancing themselves from it. So Muppets still kind of makes sense. Obviously Pirates just got released this last week right in the movie theater. So I don't know if a year later having a Pirates theme comes out makes sense. But I don't know. What do you think? We've already got a stern Pirates. It's a respected title. It is a little long on the tooth in the sense that it's, what, 14 years old at this point. Yeah, it's not my bad.
    26:25
    So what do you think? Is it too soon? Or like, heck no, it's fine. Pirates is always a great theme. what really what's the point i'm the game's already out there i mean because look i love hobbit and i think the game is great the movies i was lukewarm on but i love the game uh i don't know i think muppets is timeless i mean look at wizard of oz that's you know what 75 year old movie and it's still timeless and it's a phenomenal great game you know they hit one out of the park with their first release. And, you know, dialed in, finally got to play that.
    27:03
    My God, that game is insanely, awesomely, totally cool. I think they've definitely raised the bar. So I'm excited to see what they're going to come out with.
    27:13
    I mean, there's so many great themes. You brought up Princess Bride, which I had not heard. But I can see that one selling real well. Because, again, you know, that movie's, what, 25, 30 years old? And people still love it, you know? I still love it. And I think the argument that I see online that I think passes my smell test, but it doesn't mean that J.J.P. has the licensing for it, is Superman. Atari was the last and only Superman pin.
    27:44
    Spider-Man has a couple. Marvel has a handful. Batman has, what, three? Four, if you count the newest one, yeah. So it feels like Superman's been overlooked, and I could see somebody jumping on that bandwagon soon because that's a huge market of Superman fanatics out there. There is, but that's another one I'm going to go with. I don't see the point because, I don't know, man. Superman to me is just, you know, and again, this is going back to the nostalgia thing. To me, you know, Superman will always be Christopher Reeve and everything beyond that. I'm just shaking my head going, why did they bother? Well, there's no, like when I say Superman, I'm leaving that wide open. It could be a Spider-Man Vault Edition type Superman, right, where it holds true to the legacy comics of yesteryear.
    28:43
    So it's a lot of interesting stuff floating out there. No one is really opening up. I think I saw – it might have been at the Rocky Mountain Pinball Show. They're having the designer of J.J.P. number four is actually there. He's going to talk about a lot of the work he's done on Dialed In and some of the other JJP titles he's done. So it will be interesting to see if he drops any hints as early as June.
    29:15
    I just go ahead and throw out Guardians of the Galaxy It relevant For JJP Yeah No that going to be Stern baby Yeah, okay. Either way, man, it should be done because, you know, the movies are great. Let me put it this way. If you're ready to talk about Stern, we all know, yes, Nick Stern is Star Wars. Okay, let's move on. But we don't know for sure. Oh, come on. It's Star Wars. Well, you know, more of the rumor mill, because this was brought up on that other podcast too, that Stern and Kapow are working on another game together, Kapow Pinball.
    30:00
    Wow, and I can't think of the guy's name now. And I've owned a couple games he designed. Oh, Joe Kamenko. Jordan. Oh, okay. from Kapow Pinball, you know, because mostly he's doing slot machines and stuff like that these days. But he's got all these great licenses. And, you know, what the rumor mill is is that they are working on – they've got a license and they're going to be working on a game together. And it's nothing anybody would expect, but it will make complete sense and say, yeah, it makes total sense as a pinball game. so I'm driving back from Napa on Friday working and so in my head I'm thinking oh god what could it be and all the stuff's running through my head and what I'm thinking and this just popped in there so I'll throw it out because I'd love to see it Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory the original with Gene Wilder not the Johnny Depp remake Well, would you believe that is the number one voted theme for Kapow to release? Is it really? Yeah. I wasn't – Way to follow the rest of the crowd. Wow. Cool. But that just means it's a good idea, right? That's a great idea. You know what they actually did, and it's still an active survey out there. Kapow actually released a survey last year, late last year, saying what should our next theme be. So they actually reached out to people and took information in, and somebody copied that survey into Pennside about seven months ago.
    31:40
    And yeah, they took votes on it. There's been 500 votes on Pennside, and 91 of those votes went to Willy Wonka, so about 20 percent, a little less than 20 percent went to Willy Wonka. The number one vote-getter was the – I'd rather they didn't because I'm afraid of the cost. No doubt. After the Batman costing. But beyond that, Willy Wonka, followed by Munsters, followed by something else. Those were the top three vote-getters. I remember the thread, and I remember the poll. But, well, it's like you brought up Muppets got canceled after one season. That is absolute news to me. I had no idea. That's how little television I watch. I had no idea that there was even a new Muppet show out there. Not at all, man. Completely clueless. I just don't watch TV anymore, man. I'm stuck with Rusty and the kids. If I'm not working, I'm playing pinball. I'm hanging out with you guys.
    32:42
    You know, so TV just doesn't really – like this weekend, Rusty and I have just been re-watching Band of Brothers part of the weekend. Well, it's a good weekend to watch that. It is. I've seen it a dozen times. I own it. and it never gets old. So I'd love to see it, but again, yeah, I don't want to see the price, especially for the golden ticket Super LE. Well, so that's what the people ask for. When I go and look around at what the rumor mill says, so what people are saying they hear from their sources, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, the name I saw pop up a couple times is the Beatles. So don't care Not even a little bit Not even a little bit? Not even a little bit That's what I meant too Nothing like Captain Revolver Honestly I'd be more excited about a Roy Orbison pen Or a Buddy Holly pen To be quite honest I'd be more excited about Three Stooges but I think that's one of the The least desirable I would be way excited about Three Stooges. The call-outs. Oh, the call-outs. I would be... Or a Groucho Marx one. You know what? I would love a Groucho Marx one because that guy got away with so much back in the day. Oh, yeah. He could shoot some zingers out. So, yeah, that would be great. But getting a voice impersonator might prove to be a challenge. And licensing and all that good stuff. I mean, Beatles has to be one of the harder licenses to get to, I would think. And more expensive, I'm sure. But speaking of Guardian of the Galaxy, that was one of the interesting things I was reading this weekend was I've heard from my connections, so not over the internet but in person, that that is most likely the next Stern after Star Wars. So I think Your wish is going to come true from Stern That we're going to see a Guardians of the Galaxy Pin probably released Or announced soon Cool, I'm in Yeah Good stuff out there There's also the new Elvira too Yeah, yep There's no end in sight Which makes me, you know Always goes back to Can we really Our little hobby and our little coin op friends really support the sheer number of titles that are coming out um maybe the answer is yes and we we sell the same number of pins there's just more titles in the mix well i spent my college money on xenon and paragon and uh phoenix and flash you know so many years ago so i can just start spending the kids college money on uh guardians of the galaxy and Star Wars.
    35:40
    Thank you. You know. So, no problem. Done. Right? Yeah. Well, you know, we're talking about Stern. They keep hitting them out of the park with amazing games, but, you know, there's quality issues out there right now, man.
    35:59
    Like what? Well, like the last game I played on Batman 66, the Batmobile was coming off of the spinner platform and blocking you know so where the spinner couldn't spin i just so you're saying the other 269 pins there didn't have any problems and this this was the one did my 800 dollar uh black rose didn't have any problems play like a champ the whole weekend my recommendation is stop buying your glue at the dollar store yeah well i will say the batman that was there on site is a Batman that travels around a lot and is used at parties and events. And so it gets heavy play. It's not from a home collector. It's from a vendor. So it probably sees a lot more mileage than your typical pin does. So I think all things break, especially if they're inside of a pinball machine. I guess if everybody's Batman mobile was breaking, I'd be more alarmed. And the thing that kind of made me nervous when I'm reading through the forum is cabinet corner separation issues, dimpling on the play fields, those kinds of things. But I don't know. The dimpling, you know, I think Mr. Black Knight up in our Pacific Northwest, Chris, He's made some pretty good arguments online for, hey, you know, you guys should have seen the dimpling we had back in the 90s on the Valley-William games as they came out. Just give it time. That all evens out. Yes, there's going to be some one-offs, but this is nothing different than we haven't seen before. But the cabinet separation, that makes me a little bit more worried. If you're, you know, the game's palleted and dropped off at your house and you set it up and you're playing in your home and you've got 200 plays on it and the corners are separating, there's some quality issues there that definitely need to be addressed. Yeah, I concur with the dimpling thing. You're dropping a steel ball onto a wood platform.
    38:05
    That's called physics, listeners. That's going to happen. If I had just bought a Batman premium for $9,000 and it was dimpling, I would probably be puckered up too. Yeah, but you've got to know that that's why I spend $900 on games instead of 9,000. Exactly, yeah. But, you know, I agree with you on the cabinet thing.
    38:28
    You know, I mean, that's why you look at, like, God, you look at old Gottlieb and Bally and Neal Williams,
    38:34
    you know, EMs and early solid state, man, they're built like tanks, you know? Just copy what they were doing, throw the hinges on, call it good. Just make them, you know. It's wood, man. It's wood and steel. It should hold up, you know?
    38:49
    Just, you know, don't use balsa wood. Right. But yeah, that's I think – and I know – look, I'm not beating up on Stern because I know if there's issues, they're addressing them and they're rectifying the situation as quickly as possible.
    39:09
    They're a good group over there. Hey, this show only has room for one Stern apologist and I've taken that cabinet position. You've taken that? All right. Well, then I'll have a beef with it Since I'm not a new-in-box guy You know, I mean, it's like Until Guardians of the Galaxy comes out, right?
    39:29
    Probably Elvira Because Rusty is a huge Elvira fan She loves the first two Elvira games Oh, wow Well, shoot, good luck That's exciting I can't wait to come over and play it There you go You know me, man I'm still open for a Star Trek, so Yeah I hear you.
    39:49
    Because that game is just fun to shoot. It's a good shoot. Speaking of fun to shoot, did you get to play American Pinball? You know what? I'm so glad you brought that up. I did not get to play Houdini three times in line. Okay? And on the next one up, and all three times, the darn game broke down. So you broke it three times. I never even touched it. The second time I was up, me and Rusty were up. I said, honey, because you can only play one player at a time. Two ball game. I said, honey, you go ahead. You go first. And she got one ball going real good, made the shot where it throws the ball up into the box, then nothing. Had to shut it off because all the balls were jammed in there. And the same thing happened to a guy playing in front of me when I was next up, and he was on ball two. And I was like, you got to be kidding. I'll say this. And, you know, Saturday morning I made sure to get by there, introduced myself to the American Pinball guys, thanked them for coming and thanked them for bringing the game. And they threw me two T-shirts. I was like, awesome, thanks, guys. And, you know, they were very gracious and seemed very humble. And just watching a lot of other people play the game, it's beautiful. In person, and I say this about every game because it's true, So pictures and video never do a game justice, and it's a beautiful-looking game. The artwork, the features look really cool. The video display just really captures that era of Houdini really well.
    41:29
    And I know it's still in prototype development phase, but guys, get an extra one out there because the people that are going to be buying this game really want to play it. Well, I think you're being a little harsh. I think it is not even a sample game. It's literally one of their few prototypes. Right.
    41:51
    Shout out to Jolly and his son who came out and Jim who came out. Loved having those guys here. I think it was having some software issues, to be honest. And so if you don't got the software developer sitting there fixing the bugs on the spot, that's the kind of thing that happens. So I got to play it one morning before the lines, and I had no issues with it. Really great selection of tight shots, so definitely accuracy is a hallmark of that game because the shots were really tight. But good geometry. 100% loved the LCD integration into the Translighter back glass. I don't know which that has, but I thought it was really awesome. They showed it almost like looking at a stage with a curtain across it and the way it tied it together. You didn't have this giant LCD glaring out at you, but it felt very much pulled you into the game. Yeah. I thought the call-outs were probably among the best I've ever heard in terms of engaging, interesting, slightly mocking, and also step-by-step telling you what to do. shoot the far left ramp and then do da da so it was really um i thought they've got a lot of things that uh i think are really promising clearly they've got to get you know everything ironed out from what i've read november is probably when they start shipping so they still got you know five six months to get all the little gremlins out and taking the the pin around to the different shows is definitely probably helping helping them iron these things out so i'm pretty excited about it. I think the price point's right around seven. To me, I would take that game all day long and twice on Sunday over any other Stern premium that I know out there Having said that I won be buying one um if i was in a position to buy a new inbox every year that would probably be the one i would buy this year in fact i would probably buy it over dialed in even though i really did enjoy dialed in you know you make some good points and uh you know you know man you know me i'm always going to be hyper critical because well i'm you know look i'll be well you'd be hyper number one well that's true and i'm i'm i'm But I heard it because I didn't get to play it, and I really wanted to play it.
    44:26
    But no, like I said, the integration of how the display is perfect size, it pulls you in. I think that game is going to do extremely well on location, especially in bars and things like that, because for the novice pinball player, the casual player, it gives you all those nice hints, like shoot the left ram, shoot the saucer, whatever.
    44:52
    Yeah, you know, overall, I'm still pulling for the guys. I think what they're doing is great. I just want to see the finished product and play it. I just want to play it. But, hey, I got two shirts. You should have stood in line one more time. Man, it was just, you know, there was so much going on.
    45:12
    Excuses. Yeah, you know, so many games and so many people. And I know there's so many people I didn't get to say hi to and didn't get to meet. So if you were at Pinnagogo and I didn't get to meet you or say hi I truly apologize for that And if you happen to see me next year at the Goldman State Pinball Festival in Lodi, California Make sure you come up and say hello, man You know Because I definitely want to meet you We need to get bowling shirts, man We need to get what?
    45:43
    Bowling shirts so they can find us easier We did need to get bowling shirts so they can find us easier So, big shirt. Find me. We can make that a game. Find Spencer Don. Find Spencer and win a prize.
    46:00
    I'd like it. I'll give out keychains or something. So, what are your thoughts on Highway right now? So, I know I'm excited to try out Alien. I haven't spent too much time studying it I did get an opportunity over at the show to help break down a full throttle and shout out to John for bringing his full throttle it's awesome that he brings his machine in for us to pound on but overall I'm somewhat impressed with the build quality on those machines I've always been a fan of Full Throttle since it came out the theme doesn't do anything for me but if money was no object it would definitely be one of the games that I would be interested in getting sooner rather than later just from geometry and rules and integration of lights and sound I'm pretty thumbs up about Full Throttle, so I can only imagine if they can execute to that same level on Aliens and move the platform forward a little bit, then I think it's going to be a real treat. So I'm looking forward to seeing that come in. That's where I'm at. I absolutely love Full Throttle, and the theme is motorcycle racing, whatever. I just love the gameplay, and I love the shots. I think the modes are fun. I think it's a fun game. I've watched a couple of gameplay videos of Alien and that is a dream theme, one of many for me. So, you know, like so many other people, I'm sure, man, I just want to get my hands on one.
    47:55
    That's a dream theme. I didn't realize that. So did you go out and see the movie yet? I have not seen the new movie. I'm waiting for everything to hit the drive-in and it might be playing because, you know, we've got to drive in one freeway exit from the house. And you know because I got the kids And although I don't know if I'd really take them to that That's a real good little kids Movie I'm sure Yeah not really but in fact probably this next weekend I'll probably be seeing Captain Underpants so Yeah I saw that's coming Because we have all the books you know And me and the boys readers and I love the books We read them together So I'll probably be seeing that And yeah then Rusty and I will probably go see the new Alien movie or well you know her Mrs. Wonder Woman, so most likely we should go see Wonder Woman. But yeah, I'm really excited. I didn't realize that was a top theme for you. Very cool. Yeah, it's one of the top well, you know what, probably my I don't even want to say my number one, but my well, okay, I'll give you probably my three, okay, because I know I'm sidetracking but in no particular order Fifth Element Firefly or Serenity and Spinal Tap.
    49:07
    Wow. So it's not in your top three. Got it. I mean, because it's actually being made. I mean, it's like freaking cool, you know. And for no other reason just to hear game over, man, game over. And, you know, I mean, yeah, there's a few other great lines from that. But, yeah, I'm excited to play it. It looks really cool. And something I want to touch on real quick, you know, I can only speak from the full throttle standpoint. For a wide body, it's really, really fast and really good flow.
    49:50
    So I love that. Yeah, well, you know, wide body doesn't necessarily have to mean that it's slow. I have three wide bodies myself, older ones, but yeah, the flow is really good on it. Yeah, that's the thing. It's not just because it's a wide body doesn't mean it's not fast, but I mean that game was really, really fast.
    50:16
    But I enjoyed it. And then there's the Dutch pinball. Yeah. You know, I don't know how much you've been keeping up, but you know that they've been in negotiations with – what is it? ARA, I believe, and the contract manufacturer. And they've come back to the table and said, you know, we're going to get these games shipped and build the rest of them. We want 51% of the company.
    50:49
    Oh, interesting. Yeah. So Dutch exists – they own the intellectual property. They design the games. They source out, and then they have a third party build them in Europe, and that's – and is that for globally, or do they still do some assembly here in the US? You know, I'm not sure. I haven't looked that deep into it. That's a good question. my first initial thought is just yeah do whatever they want to get the games finished and get the ones that are already finished out to the nice people that paid for them two and a half years ago and then you know then ARA is on the hook and it's like then you can go after them you know I mean so what how many games are they backordered on them is this is this for Bride or is this for Big Lebowski or is this for something else well I know right now it's for Big Lebowski just to get Big Lebowski done I guess then they'll start a I should have actually done my homework better because you're asking good questions I'm like I don't know man I heard something you know you've got a strong take Spencer I know well look it's just look you know I'm looking at all these people you know some people I personally know you personally know you know good pinheads that we know good guys that got money into this. And it's like, you know what? Both parties bid off more than they can chew.
    52:17
    Dutch pinball, the guys, great design, interesting game, interesting features. The 2.0 kit, really cool. But they bid off more than they can chew. Instead of just standing up, manning up, and owning it up, like us badass Americans do.
    52:34
    I know I had to throw that in. I don't know what they're doing. You know, they're basically, you know, not behaving properly. And then the contract manufacturer, I think they're in the same boat. They went, yeah, throw us some money. We'll make these. Oh, wow, pinball's hard. Well, you know what? This is going to cost a lot more than we thought. Oh, we'll gouge them for more. And you know what? Just stand up, man up, own it. Just say, you know what, guys? We've messed up. We didn't win into this with the best intentions. This is going to cost us a lot more. Each game's going to cost another grand. There it is. They should have done this a year ago. Yeah. Yeah, take note, everyone. Pinball's not the best business to get into if you actually want to make, what's it called, money.
    53:26
    Yeah, definitely. Well, you know, there's so much more to it. I mean, look, that's why so much – why is so much stuff not manufactured in the USA anymore? Money, you know, because you can get it done cheaper overseas. Not in Europe. Name something besides extremely expensive, very exotic cars that are made in Europe. I can't think of a single thing. I really can't. I'm sure there's something out there, but people don't make things in Europe anymore. They make them in China and Taiwan and in India. Why? Because the labor pool is much cheaper. So like everybody else I just want people to get their games man They pay it up front with good faith The games are sitting in a warehouse Somewhere get the games delivered Or you know what go back to making Widgets or whatever you folks are doing Because clearly they have not A clue of what they're doing Yeah well this We need to stop buying games On speculation that ends All this nonsense Cold You know what? Buy a game that ships. Great point. When a company's got a game in a box sitting there or several and they have a working manufacturing plant that they can show you a video of actual production on the line, then it's time to start cutting a check or throwing them a credit card. Before then, you know. Hard pass. You know, guys, if you're out there listening, I got some swampland in Florida. I'll tell you, real cheap.
    55:09
    Yeah, you know what? What is it in Latin? Caveat emptor. Emptor. Caveat emptor. Let the buyer beware. But, you know, the guys you know are good guys. And I hate to see them getting cheesed yet again because, you know, people made promises they clearly aren't keeping.
    55:29
    Well, luckily, there's at least 400 to 500 used titles out there and available that are a known entity. So I'll continue to focus on those. Yeah, right now I'm looking for another $800 game, man. So they're out there.
    55:48
    So, you know, yeah, it is what it is. So I think that's pretty much all we had for tonight to cover. Did I miss anything? No, I think we had some I think we covered everything we stated out to do And we didn't disagree really once So I always struggle with Coming up with interesting takes But you and I are too like-minded I think sometimes Yeah, I don't know Well, we disagreed slightly on Stern quality So, you know, just a little bit So
    56:29
    That's okay though, that's part of the fun of it And we are quite like minded on many aspects Of the hobby Any other closing thoughts?
    56:40
    No, just looking forward To getting my machine set up After the show Getting my pinball room put back together Getting all my new goodies I bought at the show Installed And getting pinball going For the summer It's going to be a very good summer Absolutely Alright, well, ladies and gentlemen Fellow listeners and pinheads That's our show for tonight I want to thank my awesome Co-host, Seth For taking time out of, I know your very busy Schedule so we can get a new episode out You can listen to us On, what can they Listen to us on, Seth?
    57:23
    ACAF? Well, you're home at Soundgarden or SoundCloud.com. Soundcloud.com, ACAST, and we're still working on iTunes. Getting in there is like trying to break into the IRS database, but we are working on that. You can contact us at thespinnerislit at gmail.com. No matter where you are in America and possibly I think even Canada, I'm not sure. I haven't checked it lately. If you're looking for pinball on location, and that's the website of that is pinballmap.com. Everybody have a safe and happy and fun Memorial Day. Remember the fallen who defend our American and worldwide God-given right to play pinball and have a good time. Play pinball and keep America strong.
    58:22
    Peace out. Thank you.