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It's Dead Jim. Let's talk about it

Don's Pinball Podcast (patreon feed)·podcast_episode·21m 52s·analyzed·Aug 19, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Don breaks NDA on unreleased American Pinball Cuphead after company collapse; game was excellent.

Summary

Don reveals detailed gameplay impressions of the unreleased American Pinball Cuphead pinball machine, which he played a year prior under NDA. With American Pinball's recent collapse (trademark loss, company dissolution), he's now free to discuss the game's design, mechanics, and strong quality. He describes a well-designed layout, innovative dice-based gameplay system, excellent artwork from the original Cuphead studio, and expresses frustration that the finished/near-finished game may never see release, while actively seeking manufacturers or buyers to resurrect the project.

Key Claims

  • American Pinball has lost its trademark and the company no longer exists

    high confidence · Don directly states: 'Not only have they lost the trademark or non-renewed it for their company's name, for the assets of all of their games' and 'the people I signed the contract with are gone.'

  • Don played the Cuphead prototype twice, once bringing Carrie Hardy without permission

    high confidence · Don says: 'I got to play it two times. The second time I even snuck carry Hardy in the damn building. We went over there and played it. It was super fun.'

  • Cuphead was positioned as 'Cuphead 3' by the original creators and was canon to the video game IP

    high confidence · Don states: 'This was an original theme. Uh, Cuphead has had Cuphead one Cuphead two. This was seen by the creators of the game as Cuphead three, like the third version of the game.'

  • The Cuphead license holder required 100% game completion before release, which Don considers unreasonable

    medium confidence · Don says: 'the license holder of Cuphead, uh, did not want the game coming out until it was like a hundred percent complete, which is not reasonable, I don't think.'

  • The game's artwork and animations were all created by the original Cuphead studio, not American Pinball in-house

    high confidence · Don emphasizes: 'There were no animations done by American Pinball. There were no props and ice cream things and old power supplies rescued from dumpsters... This was all really professionally done and cut together.'

  • The Cuphead game featured a powered very target that returns the ball with force proportional to the shot strength

    high confidence · Don details: 'There was a very target in this game that was in the dead center at the back of the play field and it was a powered very target... depending on the strength that you hit it, that is the strength that it kicked back at you.'

  • The game had a dice-based meta-game where random dice rolls lit shots, with loaded dice (magnet-controlled) for game balance

    high confidence · Don explains: 'there were just like a little plastic bell or something... there'll be a number on each one, right? And then when the pop-o-matic goes off... Super fun. The other fun thing about this little pop-o-matic guy is that these dice are loaded. So there is a magnet inside there in the base.'

Notable Quotes

  • “It's been no secret over the last week, a week or so, even more, there's been a lot more news about non-reassuring about American Pinball as a company. And now it seems like the shoe has just dropped.”

    Don @ 0:00-0:30 — Sets up the collapse of American Pinball and contextualizes why Don can now break his NDA

  • “I was brought in kind of early... where they were like, Don, we're going to bring you in on our new game that we're working on, let you get some feedback on it play it early, do not tell anybody about this sign this contract and stuff you're under oath with American Pinball who now doesn't exist anymore so hell, let's talk about it”

    Don @ 1:00-1:30 — Directly explains the rationale for breaking the NDA—the company no longer exists

  • “This game should have came out at tpf last year uh this game should have came out at every expo since then um we've been fed and stringed along different little bits of information”

    Don @ 2:30-2:50 — Indicates significant delays and missed release windows for Cuphead

  • “The build that I had played only had a few of the boss scene animations... the layout was very much in that 1940s aesthetic. It essentially was a fan layout with a right upper play field and a little left upper mechanism that was pretty cool.”

    Don @ 7:00-8:00 — Details the playfield design aesthetic and layout philosophy

  • “There was no jank. There was no jank. All the shots felt really good. The millimeters were where they needed to be.”

    Don @ 25:00-25:30 — Emphasizes manufacturing quality and precision despite the game being a prototype

  • “I don't know that this would have been game of the year... but this would have been the game that like yeah in addition to my three sterns my two spookies and my jjp i want this game in my game room right”

    Don @ 26:00-26:30 — Places Cuphead in the collector hierarchy—strong but not top-tier market positioning

  • “The layout, uh, the gameplay mechanics, those are done. Like this game's done. The art looks fantastic. And the art was all done by the original art studio that holds the license for this. So it's not like you need to wait for this license, uh, to approve the art.”

Entities

American PinballcompanyCuphead (pinball machine)gameDonpersonCarrie HardypersonCuphead (video game IP holder)organizationBarrios Barbecue ChallengegameGalactic Tank ForcegameThe One-Up Loungeorganization

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball trademark loss and company dissolution indicates severe financial/operational failure

    high · Don states: 'Not only have they lost the trademark or non-renewed it for their company's name, for the assets of all of their games' and mentions loss of communication with company contacts

  • ?

    community_signal: Don actively seeking to broker acquisition of Cuphead project by reaching out to manufacturers and operating communities; positioning himself as intermediary to rescue the game

    high · Don states: 'I'm actively reaching out now. Everybody I know that's got pinball production... I'm talking to them like, you know, if this exists, go get it' and mentions Chris Turner is also engaged

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong positive reception to Cuphead mechanics from test play; Don characterizes game as highly playable and fun despite not being revolutionary

    high · Don emphasizes 'it was super fun,' 'fully featured game,' 'no jank,' and would add to any collection despite not displacing top-tier manufacturers' games

  • ?

    community_signal: Strong cross-appeal of Cuphead theme to tabletop/RPG/gaming communities beyond pinball, indicating broader market potential

    medium · One-Up Lounge operator expressed day-one purchase interest based on intersection of pinball + RPG + dice gaming themes

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Cuphead featured innovative mechanics (powered very target, loaded dice magnet system, dice-based shot selection) showing American Pinball's capability to execute complex designs

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.066

0:00
All right, I think it's safe to kind of come clean to you guys about some information regarding this Cuphead pinball machine. We're going to talk about it. Thank you for being a Patreon member. This is what it's about. Invite your friends. Let's make this an entire barbecue party. So it's been no secret over the last week, a week or so, even more, there's been a lot more news about non-reassuring about American Pinball as a company. And now it seems like the shoe has just dropped. Not only have they lost the trademark or non-renewed it for their company's name, for the assets of all of their games, surprise announcement of yet another summer holiday sale, selling the top-end edition, signature edition of Galactic Tank Force for $200 more than the deluxe edition, which is like two tier levels below. Like, things ain't good at that factory if, you know, at least by pinball standards. so I was brought in kind of early it feels like it's been a year ago it was like before the X-Men launch or some damn thing at Stern not prior to that, probably prior to that where they were like, Don, we're going to bring you in on our new game that we're working on, let you get some feedback on it play it early, do not tell anybody about this sign this contract and stuff you're under oath with American Pinball who now doesn't exist anymore so hell, let's talk about it Uh, things have not been looking good for this seminal release from our friends at formerly American pinball FAP. I guess we'll call them. Um, I was looking forward to the game because it was super fun. I was allowed to share my impressions, which is that I really liked what I had played. And I was there, uh, playing, uh, I got to play it two times. The second time I even snuck carry Hardy in the damn building. We went over there and played it. It was super fun. We were invited to play it before we left, but we just kinda, just kinda barged in there. so like i've played this game and i've been wanting to talk about it like forever right this game should have came out at tpf last year uh this game should have came out at every expo since then um we've been fed and stringed along different little bits of information the plan is still going on well earlier in the week last week i had checked in with my contact there uh you know kind of just got stepped up as the sales manager for the whole bit and uh yeah like haven't heard back anything, which is never a good sign. Never a good sign. When you're used to having a dialogue with somebody and then it's like, they just kind of ghost you. It's just not good. So let's talk about this damn game. Alright, and what could have been. Hopefully it sees the light of day from somebody. I'm messaging everybody I know that has a pinball factory and some room on the line to go and grab this game that is designed and essentially was just waiting for assets and should be good to go. Just go get this license, Let's make the games. Let's print some money. In a world where we're struggling to understand everything that's in Predator, prices are high, tariffs are whatever, this is a game that would be a solid modicum of a hit that people would enjoy and I think should be out there. All right, so let's talk about this game. Yeah, it is Cuphead. It's based on this game that came out, I guess, Xbox, PlayStation. They made a cartoon show about it. It's offbeat. It uses kind of like that pie-eyed graphics seen in early Disney cartoons and cartoons from like the 40s. So it's got that aesthetic. It's hand-drawn animation, or at least they may be using computers, but it looks like traditional hand-drawn animation captured with cell shading into a video game. And it's got fluid animations and it's hard as balls as far as a game. It's kind of like that type of video game that you got to sit there and just kind of play and die 30 times before you figure out all the patterns that can get through it, you know. But then when you do, very satisfying. So kind of a niche game. It's not as widespread as Mario Kart 9 or whatever they're up to now, but it was fun. And it probably wouldn't have been my choice for a pinball theme if I wanted to sell thousands and thousands of games. But when has American Pinball ever done that? It was definitely the best theme that I think they have gotten. So this game had an interesting layout and it had some good gameplay mechanics. Let's share some of those since you're here on Patreon. So the game was very yellow, but all of the art and all the assets were done by the studio that does Cuphead. So there was no animations done by American Pinball. There were no props and ice cream things and old power supplies rescued from dumpsters and cobbled together to make sci-fi stuff. There were no designers put into space suits and filmed in the studio. This was all really professionally done and cut together. The build that I had played only had a few of the boss scene animations. For those that don't understand, the game is mainly boss battles, these really elaborate, very animated ones. They'll have short stages here and there, but it's mainly battle the bosses, and that's kind of like how the game's modes were structured. So the layout was very much in that 1940s aesthetic. It essentially was a fan layout with a right upper play field and a little left upper mechanism that was pretty cool. This was an original theme. Uh, Cuphead has had Cuphead one Cuphead two. This was seen by the creators of the game as Cuphead three, like the third version of the game. And it was going to be a pinball game, but it was Canon as the third Cuphead game. So there were original assets and things being put in this a lot of love from the people So the layout wise um there were uh mainly plastic ramps on the left and right with multiple areas to kind of access that area a lot of ball paths that kind of spread out when i say fan layout it's really a fan layout in the sense that um from the lower left all the way back straight back to the upper right to the lower right there were shots all along there that you could make uh shots with some were just small little ball paths that would turn around. Other ones would lead up, you know, to the main ramps. There were a couple of entrances, a couple of exits to every little area, but it was like nice care and detail played with everything in there. So it wasn't like an overly ambitious design that would be difficult to pull off. It was something relatively safe, but by far better than something like Berrio's Barbecue Challenge. Easily twice as many shots, and they were three times as interesting. Okay, Like this was a fun game to play. Ball paths, you know, main shots. I want to say there was probably about eight or so. And the ramps were all plastic. The ramps are plastic and there weren't wire forms. I don't believe, I'm thinking of a lot of plastic. I wasn't allowed to take pictures. And it's been like a year since I've seen this thing. There may have been a wire form or two, but essentially what I remember was nice, smooth shooting plastics. Just like Stranger Things or Elvira, right? That's like how it felt to play this. so there were mode starts, there were fun little mechanisms I'll just tell you what I know about it on the lower right area there was a one of those hammer and bell carnival type games, you know you would hit the thing and cause a little mechanism to go off and that would play animations on the screen which was what I was told we were going to be seeing I'm going off a memory so if the game actually comes out and some of this isn't 100% accurate that's what I remember, so that was cool there was just like a little plastic bell or something, but they were telling me that they were going to implement something sculpted or a toy at some point. On the left side, you could access this long return ramp that was on the upper left. It was plastic. It was fun and satisfying to hit. It seemed like there were a couple of ways to access it. Like I think there was one on the upper right that could drain over there. And then there was a diverter involved, I think with an up-down ramp where you could either shoot into an orbit or get the ball to go up into that ramp. And it was kind of fun, that interplay between it. The right upper play field had an extra flipper on it. And it was fun. There were a couple of shots up there, like a repeatable loop type shot, and then another shot to kind of kick off into a wire form or some such. The main, like, well, okay, there was one more ramp right straight through the back. This was fun. This was almost like a ribbon type ramp, something similar to the boats on fishtails, how you could shoot up one side and it would come down the other. Only this made like a full figure eight. It was a figure eight that was open on the bottom. So it was essentially like a ribbon, like an AIDS ribbon or a breast cancer ribbon kind of shot. So if you shot it hard enough, it would go around this entire loop and then come back satisfyingly. I believe there was a magnet up there in the back, so that could be activated where you could shoot up the ball, be grabbed, and then dropped into a little slot, which was fun. Or a weaker shot could go up one side and down the other, right? It was interesting and it was fun to shoot because every time you shot up there and it went through the little thing, you were like, yay. That was a cool little ball path that we just saw. There was a very target in this game that was in the dead center at the back of the play field and it was a powered very target. I think they called it like the very angry target or something like that. But essentially you would hit this target and depending on the strength that you hit it, that is the strength that it kicked back at you. So that was fun. So a weak little shot would kind of knock your ball back down to you if it happened to just kind of roll up and make contact with it if you fired directly up there it was coming rocketing right back at you and i think they had a little angry face on that they called it like the the very angry target something like that they had a cute name for it and it was just fun to see that you know old school pinball implement uh put it in a way that i haven't seen really uh with that type of thing so a very target that throws the ball back at you uh proportional to the strength that you hit it that was super fun um all right now Gameplay mechanic-wise, I'll tell you about the story because that leads into the mechanic. So if you've played Cuphead, there's essentially these two little characters. They make a deal with the devil. They lose. The devil gets their souls, and they're trying to bargain to get it back by going through these stages. And so the devil says, essentially, if you can go out and defeat these bosses and bring me their soul contracts, if you do enough of those, eventually you can win your souls back. And the devil's like this big kind of hairy monkey-looking kind of creature. He has an underling that is this guy that owns a casino or runs the casino, and I think the devil's involved or something. But it's essentially a guy in almost like a purple zoot suit with a giant die for a head, like dice, you know? And he's got the snake eyes kind of deal going on. Super cool, like Cab Calloway type character. And he seems to be the main antagonist for the game. You're playing as the Cuphead guys. I think you pick Cuphead or Mug Boy or whatever. and then you're battling against the dice guy. I forget what his name is. I'll look it up.

  • The game had a gambling/roulette meta-game where players collected dice-roll numbers to unlock bonuses

    medium confidence · Don describes: 'a casino type game... as you're playing the game and you're hitting these shots... you would collect each one of those numbers... you got, I don't know, like a gameplay multiplier'

    • Don @ 29:00-29:30 — Argues that the game is production-ready and has minimal licensing obstacles remaining

  • “I'm actively reaching out now. Everybody I know that's got pinball production and, you know, can make decent games. I'm talking to them like, you know, if this exists, go get it.”

    Don @ 31:30-32:00 — Don is directly attempting to broker a deal for another manufacturer to acquire and finish the game

  • “This game was really fun and I think everybody deserves a chance to get to play it. If I can be helpful to that end at all, that's what I'm going to do.”

    Don @ 32:30-33:00 — Shows Don's commitment to seeing the game completed and released publicly

  • “The One-Up Lounge... they were saying we would have this game day one, no questions asked. Like these are guys that love role-playing, love video games, love dice games, tabletop gaming.”

    Don @ 20:30-21:00 — Demonstrates strong operator/location interest in Cuphead based on theme cross-appeal

    • Hot Wheels (pinball)
    game
    Chris Turnerperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany

    high · Don details multiple innovative mechanics including powered very target and loaded dice system with magnets for controlled randomization

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Cuphead license holder imposed unreasonable 100% completion requirement before release, contributing to development delays and project abandonment

    medium · Don reports: 'the license holder of Cuphead, uh, did not want the game coming out until it was like a hundred percent complete, which is not reasonable'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Cuphead artwork and animations pre-approved by original IP studio, removing major approval bottleneck for successor manufacturer

    high · Don: 'The art looks fantastic. And the art was all done by the original art studio that holds the license... It's not like you need to wait for this license, uh, to approve the art'

  • $

    market_signal: American Pinball recent games (Galactic Tank Force, Barrios Barbecue Challenge) underperforming; emergency discounting and communication issues indicate financial distress

    high · Don notes summer holiday sales discounting signature edition with $200+ markup over deluxe; describes Hot Wheels as 10th run (implies success) but newer games struggling

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Don's contact at American Pinball (newly promoted sales manager) became unresponsive, signaling organizational breakdown

    medium · Don: 'earlier in the week last week i had checked in with my contact there uh you know kind of just got stepped up as the sales manager... haven't heard back anything, which is never a good sign'

  • ?

    announcement: Cuphead positioned as American Pinball's 'version 2.0' after Galactic Tank Force and Barrios Barbecue Challenge; represented significant quality leap in company's design capability

    medium · Don: 'This was kind of like after Galactic Tank Force kind of came and went... This seemed like the first game from American Pinball 2.0'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Cuphead missed multiple release windows (TPF last year, subsequent expos) with no communication

    high · Don: 'This game should have came out at tpf last year uh this game should have came out at every expo since then um we've been fed and stringed along different little bits of information'

  • ?

    product_concern: Cuphead prototype demonstrated manufacturing precision ('no jank,' proper millimeter tolerances) and balanced difficulty/appeal between competitive and casual players

    high · Don emphasizes: 'There was no jank. There was no jank. All the shots felt really good. The millimeters were where they needed to be.'

    • 10:34
    But essentially, every one of the main shots of the game, say eight shots or so, all has a lit, what looks like a domino, but I think it's really two dice on it. And as you're playing a game, there's this dice mechanism that will go off periodically that's in the upper left area. It's not player interactive, but it almost like a pop bubble that has a die in it or has two die in it And as it pops there a little camera that watching And when it stops the little pips I think is what the little dots on dice are actually called It'll read the pips, and then it'll arrange the dice on the play field. No, no, sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm doing this all from memory.
    11:11
    Randomly, the shots on, or the dice that are on, the lit up dice on each shot will randomly roll, and there'll be a number on each one, right? And then when the pop-o-matic goes off, it'll light up, which is, you know, like the bonus shot or whatever. So if it rolls a seven, then whatever shot has that seven on it will be blinking. And, like, that's the one you can hit, you know, to gain points and things like that. Super fun. The other fun thing about this little pop-o-matic guy is that these dice are loaded. So there is a magnet inside there in the base. And when triggered, they could make the dice roll snake eyes whenever the game wanted it to. So that was a cool aspect. And I didn't see like how that was going to be implemented because I haven't played Final Code or anything. But that was such a cool innovation that I was like blown away by that. And I'm like, guys, you're actually making a game that's that's this was coming hot off the heels of Barrios Barbecue Challenge. And so you guys have made a game here that's got compelling gameplay. It's got gameplay elements. It's got mechanisms in here that are fun to interact with. It's got fun ball paths. The art looks good. The sound is kicking like this looks like a really good job. you guys. I'm excited now for American Pinball. And then you can imagine me like sitting here all this time and not being able to talk about this. There was a fun other meta game within this game too. And it had to do with gambling. So down between the flippers and that kind of four area of the play field, I believe it was almost like a, it was a casino type game. Now maybe like a roulette or something where essentially as you're playing the game and you're hitting these shots, They're all numbered by random dice rolls. You would collect each one of those numbers, and each one of those numbers would then light up on your table. So as you're playing, as you're doing the rolls, as the numbers are coming up, you also have this metagame going on where you're trying to collect all the numbers, like, say, 1 through 10, or 2 through 12, which is what you could get on dice. And then when you completed a row, you got, I don't know, like a gameplay multiplier, and then it would go to the next color, and you could keep going around and collecting these. So you're almost trying to fill in all of these, you know, gambling numbers on this lower play lower area of the main play field, you know, just lit up by inserts and things and they would add bonuses as you completed them. So as you're playing, as you're trying to fight the bosses, as you're making the ramps, trying to lock the ball, you know, put the ball up into this ribbon thing, fighting with the very target. You could also keep an eye on, you know, the dice rolls and see like which numbers you wanted to see when you could reroll and try to catch them to complete them. Because as you completed more and more levels, you got more and more score and more and more things would happen. I think there was even a store and maybe an in-game currency involved or at least bantied about that you might have been able to go in and purchase perks and things throughout the game. There were two versions of this. I think like whatever they call the deluxe and then the signature limited, whatever they were going to call it. I don't know that they settled on any names. One had, you know, nice looking art, good size screen. And then the higher trim level had this foil artwork that was more kind of gold and silver. I was able to see a decal of what was going to be the shiny limited or whatever edition art. It looked good. It looked shiny. It looked foil. It looked like what you would expect.
    14:25
    This was kind of like after Galactic Tank Force kind of came and went and Burial's Barbecue Challenge was sitting there not doing much and they were on the 10th run of Hot Wheels. This seemed like the first game from American Pinball 2.0. right? Like really just kind of, okay, this company, this design studio really does have the ability here to put something out. And it was fun to play. It was fun to play. I got to play it for, I don't know, 40 minutes or so. You know, I played some games through there, played with David, played with the designer as well. You know, it was good, you know, and they were taking me through the game and what they had planned on it. And, you know, a lot of the boss battle animations were placeholders. So they just played like the same two back and forth. But when fleshed out, you would have had all this cast of characters that were created in the Cuphead universe for the third Cuphead game. And it was going to be a pinball machine. And like, this would have been the game that people that were interested in the video game could have seen like, Oh, I think I'll seek that out just so I can, I'm a Cuphead fan. I would like to play the third game and it's on a pinball machine. Where can I go play it? Um, the one-up lounge that a lot of my games end up going to once I make them over, uh, they're a retro arcade and pinball gaming bar in the Pacific Northwest. And just on the rumor of Cuphead, they were saying we would have this game day one, no questions asked. Like these are guys that love role-playing, love video games, love dice games, tabletop gaming. And so to have a pinball machine, which they also love, have a major video game theme with like some gambling and gameplay and tabletop elements into it. It was like a win three different ways for them. And, and it was like, but guys, you know, it is, there's American pinball. It's making it, you know, some of their games have been a little bit, you know, not, not tearing up the charts, you know? And they said, you know, I don't care what company would bring this game out. If it was Cuphead, I would get it, just based on that alone. So I think the theme had some strong kind of cross appeal not just within pinball but within like gaming in general So I was really I been a proponent of this game the whole time This was of of everything it out like what I would look forward to purchasing from American pinball, like at release, like here's a deposit, let's get one of these. This looks really fun, right? I talked to him before in the past about seeing if I could get my hands on a galactic tank force to play in stream or a burials barbecue challenge. I could play in stream and take around to different arcades and do pop-up events and things. Cuphead is absolutely one I would have jumped on that with because it was a fun game. The layout felt good. There was no jank. All the shots felt really good. The millimeters were where they needed to be. So the orbits felt good. The 180 ramp or the... I don't know what they called it. I called it the breast cancer ribbon ramp or something. I'm sure they would have came up with a better name for it. But it was just fun to have a game with a very target that wasn't just kind of there to be hit and then reset. It would fight back with you. It had some personality. I think it had some googly eyes on it or something. It had an upper play field that really followed in the mold of what we've seen with like Foo Fighters and Jaws, where, you know, it's an upper play field that you don't mind being up. You're not up there all day. It's like the gameplay just continues. You're just up there. And then when it's over, you wish you had a little bit more time up there and you want to get back up. It felt like that, man. It was like a cool, fully featured game that seemed to hit on everything it needed to do. you know i don't know that this would have been game of the year you know this wouldn't have unseated you know the top releases from you know spooky stern or jjp but this would have been the game that like yeah in addition to my three sterns my two spookies and my jjp i want this game in my game room right um so ah this sucks this news that we just got um which really i doesn't surprise me and i was hoping against hope that this wouldn't have happened um but you know and i tried to keep this as under wraps as I could. I mean, the rumor has been out there, so, you know, I'm free to speak about the rumor. I'm free to speak my, uh, my impressions of the game. Uh, but the game details was like the last thing I just could not wait to talk about. And with the loss of the company, uh, doesn't exist anymore. The trademarks are gone. Uh, the people I signed the contract with are gone. Um, you know, nobody's communicating and the license is just sitting there hanging like this really sucks. This really sucks because this game, like the, the, the layout, uh, the gameplay mechanics, those are done. Like this game's done. The art looks fantastic. And the art was all done by the original art studio that holds the license for this. So it's not like you need to wait for this license, uh, to approve the art. It's not like you have to wait for animations to get approved. It's not like you have to go and hire an animation studio to come up with these animations, then submit them, wait for feedback. Like it was all done by the design studio. So everything should be just like, you know, just buttoned up in a nice little bow and a box, just ready for production. And what I had been hearing up until like February last, last time I heard something from these guys, um, was that, uh, the, the license holder of Cuphead, uh, did not want the game coming out until it was like a hundred percent complete, which is not reasonable, I don't think. I think 80% is perfectly fine. Get the game out, get some feedback, fine-tune things, fix some bugs, and then boom, you got a 1.0 game that's just stellar and could have been made for years, man. And I don't know that it would have sold 5,000 games, but it would have sold 500 the first year, and then I think a couple hundred a year after that, and really, it would have been a game that was fun to play and interesting, and you wouldn't have walked by it. You would have stopped and played it. So I don't know what's going to happen with this license, but I'm actively reaching out now. Everybody I know that's got pinball production and, you know, can make decent games. I'm talking to them like, you know, if this exists, go get it. I'm about to, you know, I'm about to start knocking on doors and seeing if I can get my hands on this prototype. Like, can I just buy the prototype that I played, that Carrie and I have played? Like, we'll finish it. You know, we'll finish it. It'll be a one-on-one. We'll take it round of shows. We'll try to make it so that everybody can get a chance to get their hands on it. I'll bring it to expos. I'll take it on the road with me.
    20:36
    Something, man. This game was really fun and I think everybody deserves a chance to get to play it. If I can be helpful to that end at all, that's what I'm going to do. Let me know in the comments what you guys think. Thanks for being Patreon members. This is the kind of things that I like to do when I hear new rumors and I have perspective. I like to give it to you guys first. So I'm not going to drop this in broad release, but I want to put it out for y'all because I appreciate what you do. Email me, donspinballpodcastgmail.com. Comment down on the Patreon link below. And as I hear more information, I'll let you know. But like I'm having my buddy Chris Turner's texting me back right now. You know, like we need to get, we need to get this game made, man. All right. All right. He's, he's reaching out, man. We're trying. If you hear anything else, let me know. Let's do this as a collaborative process. All right, guys, I'll talk you later.
    21:36
    Heck no. Let's hear the Cuphead music. Let's go out on Cuphead music.