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The Pinball Show Ep 32 Part 2: Guns N Roses Pinball Reveal & First Impressions

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·22m 43s·analyzed·Oct 6, 2020
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

GNR pinball impresses with best-in-class theme integration and smooth gameplay; positioned as JJP's creative rebirth.

Summary

The Pinball Show hosts Dennis and Zachary Manning provide first impressions of Jersey Jack Pinball's newly revealed Guns N' Roses pinball machine. They praise the game's exceptional theme integration, visual spectacle, smooth playfield design, and audio/light synchronization, comparing it favorably to other JJP releases. Discussion covers the three-tier pricing model (Pro/Standard/CE/LE), gameplay accessibility, adult content considerations, and positioning it as a potential turning point for JJP's direction.

Key Claims

  • Guns N' Roses pinball shoots better than Pirates of the Caribbean and is more welcoming/accessible than both Pirates and Wonka

    high confidence · Zachary Manning, who played the game at JJP facilities: 'having played it, this game is super smooth...shoots better than Pirates...more welcoming than both Pirates and Wonka.'

  • The game features 22 songs total

    high confidence · Zachary Manning: 'They have all assets all the songs, I think there's like 22 songs.'

  • Slash was heavily involved in game design, texting Eric Menier daily with ideas

    high confidence · Zachary Manning citing SDTM video: 'Slash would daily text Eric with ideas or what this or how he thought about this...very much hands on with this game because he's a huge pinball fan.'

  • CE sound bar adds 50% more audio experience according to Eric Menier

    high confidence · Zachary Manning: 'Eric Menier said that sound bar, that additional sound bar integrated into the system, adds 50% more audio experience on there.'

  • Standard edition plays significantly faster due to absence of upper playfield

    medium confidence · Zachary Manning reporting developer comments: 'the developers up there and the creators said that whenever they playing one another they play on the standard a lot because it is super super fast.'

  • Four GNR songs are omitted from the game due to family-friendly mode requirements

    high confidence · Zachary Manning: 'there's also omission of four songs that guns and roses did that's in the game...they just omitted them' because radio edits would compromise song integrity.

  • GNR pinball likely to be Jersey Jack's first CE sellout

    medium confidence · Zachary Manning: 'I think this might be Jersey Jack's first CE sellout. I really do.' CE count estimated at 500 units.

  • Standard edition pricing is cheaper than Stern Premium models

    high confidence · Zachary Manning: 'They're cheaper than Stern Premiums, Dennis.'

Notable Quotes

  • “I think those are the highlights that stood out to me...the focus was on visual spectacle coupled with sound integration.”

    Dennis Nordman @ early discussion — Dennis identifies the core design achievement: visual/audio synchronization as primary differentiator

  • “this game is super smooth. Believe it or not, Dennis, it shoots better than Pirates, and it is more welcoming than both Pirates and Wonka.”

    Zachary Manning @ mid-conversation — Direct comparison to other premium JJP titles, establishing accessibility as a strength

  • “This is what puts it above all other theme integrated themes I've seen...This might be the most integrated theme I've ever seen.”

    Dennis Nordman @ theme integration discussion — Strong endorsement of theme integration as best-in-class from industry veteran

  • “You've just not going to compromise just the classic nature of these songs, so we weren't going to put radio edits in...they just omitted them.”

    Zachary Manning (citing Eric Menier) @ family-friendly mode discussion — Explains creative decision to omit problematic songs rather than censor them

  • “It's hard to obviously, a promo video can only do so much, but I've already heard talk. This is a fairly adult game.”

    Dennis Nordman @ late discussion — Early signal of potential market segment limitation due to mature content

  • “You can tell new people are calling the shots...This feels like this is almost a the first pin of the rebirth of JJP”

    Zachary Manning @ closing discussion — Characterizes GNR as inflection point in JJP's creative direction and personnel

  • “I think every three model, each model really kind of has something for everybody because they dropped that standard price yet again.”

    Zachary Manning @ pricing discussion — Notes JJP's strategic approach to three-tier pricing with differentiated appeal

  • “The hot rails are just white instead of RGB...That's one of the coolest features.”

Entities

Guns N' Roses (game)productJersey Jack PinballcompanyZachary ManningpersonDennis NordmanpersonEric MenierpersonSlashpersonJean-Paul DeWinpersonFlippin' Out Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: GNR Standard edition pricing undercuts Stern Premium tier, suggesting JJP strategy to compete on price while Standard tier developers favor for gameplay speed despite visual limitations

    high · Zachary: 'They're cheaper than Stern Premiums...developers up there...play on the standard a lot because it is super super fast.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Straight Down the Middle produced official promotional video for Jersey Jack; hosts conducting follow-up coverage with guest interview planned for following week; streaming content coming soon

    high · Zachary: 'We did get the opportunity to do the promotional video stuff for JJP...very proud of the work.' 'For those of you who haven't seen the stream already, that is coming very soon.'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: GNR positioned to potentially win Twippy awards for theme integration and light show; animation quality also expected to be award-competitive

    medium · Zachary: 'This wins Twippy for Theme integration...hard Not to and light show.' Dennis agreement on animation quality as standout element.

  • ?

    content_signal: Game ships in family-friendly mode by default with profanity filtering and four-song omission; adult mode available with unfiltered content and band member callouts; intentional design choice not censorship compromise

    high · Eric Menier explanation: 'we weren't going to compromise just the classic nature of these songs, so we weren't going to put radio edits in...they just omitted them.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: GNR positioned as turning point for Jersey Jack's creative direction and personnel approach; hosts characterize as 'rebirth of JJP' with 'new people calling the shots'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.068

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:10
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. One, two, one, two, three, four. Pinball is a game of spirit. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality.
1:11
All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are back, and Dennis is back. I talked and coerced him back to the microphone. In actuality, we wanted to give you guys our first impressions or just some quick snippets on the recent release of Jersey Jack Pinball's guns and motherfucking roses.
1:33
Dennis, you've seen the promo video that Straight Down the Middle did at this point. You've seen some of the pictures. I have, yes. I don't know if we've, we try to jump right on after the reveal, so prices and stuff we won't discuss here. We'll discuss later. And I think we have a special guest on next week to discuss all things guns and roses. It's Slash! No, it's not Slash.
1:57
Somebody near and dear to us. So Dennis, when you saw this game, the promo video I'm assuming you saw first, what did you think out loud? What were you thinking? I thought that the focus was on visual spectacle coupled with sound integration. So I think those are the highlights that stood out to me.

Dennis Nordman @ SE limitations discussion — Identifies specific visual compromise in Standard edition affecting theme integration

The Pinball Show
organization
Pirates of the Caribbean (game)product
Wonka (game)product
Avengers (game)product
Straight Down the Middleorganization
Final Round Pinball Podcastorganization

medium · Zachary: 'You can tell new people are calling the shots...This feels like this is almost a the first pin of the rebirth of JJP.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: GNR pinball achieves best-in-class theme integration and animation quality with exceptional audio/light synchronization and attention to detail (translucent guitar pick spinners, Fender/Gibson licensing, concert stage aesthetic)

    high · Dennis: 'This might be the most integrated theme I've ever seen...probably beats Hobbit on theme integration.' Animation praise: 'Animations are sick. They are unbelievable.'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: GNR emphasizes accessibility over complexity compared to recent JJP releases; standard width ramps, smooth shot sequences, minimal flyback, lower difficulty floor makes it welcoming to casual/newer players

    high · Zachary: 'Not as difficult. Not as tight. This is very flowy...you get a lot of flyable shots.' Compares favorably to Pirates and Wonka on accessibility.

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Strong band involvement in design and approval process; Slash texted daily ideas to designer Eric Menier; band members perform callouts in adult mode; intentional omission of four songs rather than radio edit compromise

    high · Slash described as 'huge pinball fan' with hands-on involvement; band member callouts from Slash, keyboardist; four-song omission explained as artistic choice to preserve song integrity

  • $

    market_signal: GNR targets both existing JJP collectors and non-traditional buyers (Guns N' Roses diehards, adult/mature game enthusiasts); family-friendly mode limits core target segment despite availability

    medium · Zachary: 'they're trying to capture some of those GNR diehards there.' Dennis concern: 'This is a fairly adult game...isn't going to fully appeal to the usual jjp buyer.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Jean-Paul DeWin (animator/art director) remains at Jersey Jack despite previous speculation about transitions; continues producing premium-quality animation work on GNR

    medium · Zachary references 'JP DeWin's other stuff' in context of GNR animation quality, implying ongoing JJP association

  • ?

    product_strategy: Three-tier pricing with strategic feature distribution: CE includes physical sound bar (50% more audio), RGB under/behind cabinet, embossed chrome Radcal, signed drumsticks; LE drops RGB; Standard removes upper playfield, hot rails white instead of RGB, Cam servo lights, guitar neck ball lock

    high · Extensive tier discussion documenting feature variations. Zachary: 'They're cheaper than Stern Premiums' for Standard edition.

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Dennis expresses initial skepticism about 'dad rock' band theme and revisited IP (prior Data East GNR) but credibly reverses position after seeing promo video and hearing first-hand accounts

    medium · Dennis: 'Guns N' Roses isn't a theme that people were screaming for...another dad rock theme' vs. later 'I think it probably beats it...best theme integration i seen.'

    • 2:22
    Yeah, makes sense for a band theme. in terms of I like the approach that sort of the back part, like back right, there's a very big stage presence. You've got these catwalk ramps that kind of give you that stage feel. You've got the hexagon lights give you the stage feel with the screen in the back. I liked a lot of the little just, and this gets into that, well under glass stuff, but just a few of the static toys like the slash hat, the symbols over the pop bumpers. Yeah, the clash. They actually, when you hit the pop bumpers, say ting ting ting ting ting ting oh that's so nice uh uh the the ball lock that's the the neck of the guitar that's a really cool look in the center and they have the they have the licensing for for fender for vader drumsticks for all gibson they actually got the license uh approval for all that stuff but just watching the promo video and seeing how much effort clearly has been put into the synchronization of the RGB light show with the sound package, I think that's what stands out. Okay. And I haven't played it, so I can't say whether or not where the gameplay is versus other very respective gameplay games. But in terms of theme integration, this looks top-notch. I think this, and Guns N' Roses isn't a theme that people were screaming for by any means. I definitely wasn't. I mean, I remember listening to Guns N' Roses. I knew their songs in the 80s and 90s, but again, it's another dad rock theme, so it's definitely not been high on my list of just themes that I want to see happen. Plus, we already have a GNR. Yeah, I didn't know how prevalent that Night in the Lifetime tour still was.
    4:05
    That is one of the biggest concerts in history, so it makes sense that they kind of themed it around that, but they try to stay true to the entire work and portfolio of Guns N' Roses, not only with the audio, but like you said, that jumbotron in the back of the game, that big screen, that is going to mimic the same assets that you're going to see at the concert on their jumbotron. Then they use that 27-inch screen a lot of times for the actual footage of the concert of the band singing, which is kind of what you would see if you're standing in the audience of that concert. So I love that theme integration as well. And having played it, when we went up there and filmed it, having played it, this game is super smooth. Believe it or not, Dennis, it shoots better than Pirates, and it is more welcoming than both Pirates and Wonka. What do you mean by welcoming? Not as difficult.
    5:00
    Not as tight. This is very flowy. You get that third flipper with the loop shot, the repeatable loop shot. You get the left ramp. The ramps are wide open. On Pirates, they're right at your face. you get a lot of flyback from those stand-up targets. That's not on this game. You can hit those ramps with ease, and they're really satisfactory.
    5:23
    Well, looking at the video, this appears to be standard width. Yes. Yes, so you do get – That solves a lot of that. I love the left orbit. It's really close to the player, but it's – Which one? Yeah, that's true. There is an inner left orbit like a middle orbit is what I Yeah I say there are I mean there are like three There a lot of paths But it looks like there your standard far left orbit for the lower right flipper to access And then you have a middle right flipper, which seems to access two more left orbits. Yeah, and then you get that third flipper. Yeah, and then I love that Eric Menier, he loves diverters. So you get diverters on both ramps. The right ramp that goes through the drumsticks. Oh, that was a cool touch. I used to play drums. so cool and on the CE the actual band member signs those sticks that's pretty cool but I like the diverter like on Wonka it diverts off that ramp and you get that third flipper shot that's cool and then on the left ramp you get a diverter that if it's diverted down you just get a left ramp shot it whips back right to your left flipper but if it diverts up you go to that upper play field that has one, two, three different paths, one to backhand a ball lock which listener if it is up and you hit it perfectly it goes up the left ramp under the diverter and right to the lock you don't need that flipper or you can go up the vuck into the base strings with three different paths and different things like that or the hole if you just mess up and it goes into the inner orbit it's visually stunning and it plays so well i put it up there with wonka dialed in it actually may shoot better than dialed in to be honest. I'll be interested to try it then because Dialed In is currently my opinion their best shooter. This is fast but it's not difficult. They have all assets all the songs, I think there's like 22 songs. So you're saying Baby's first rock pin? It's hard to compare, right? You guys heard me earlier if you listened to the first part of the pinball show where I said trending down is all other music based pinball machines. I mean, we'll see in terms of gameplay. In terms of the integration, you're probably right. It seems like they really went in. I mean, a lot of the stuff, and it's probably because they were working with the band. You mentioned stuff about the screen and how it is like the stage show. It seems very integrated to trying to get this game purchased by people who are big Guns N' Roses fans. Yes. Yeah, they're trying to capture some of those GNR diehards there. And slash co-design the game. I mean, in the SDTM video that listeners, if you haven't watched that, Eric talks at length about how close he was to Slash during this whole process. Slash would daily text Eric with ideas or what this or how he thought about this. So he was very much, this is a pet project, very much hands on with this game because he's a huge pinball fan. dennis what do you think about the ce now having a physical feature that the le and standard don't it might help a little bit i i think in terms of like increasing ce sales which i'm assuming is why this is being done is to try and you know jjps have always had this this in my view have had this issue where it's like initially you had the problem where the the standard edition was the least popular because you got so much more for just a little bit more money in with the le you just get aesthetics but they change that with wonka right they change that but they change that up with wonka and that helped a lot because they're also there was a big price break for the se but you still other than like art package it's always been kind of what we've seen with other manufacturers where the ce and the le are basically the same game it's just you get some visual differences maybe you get a topper so it's only really been people that want the limited number I think that have been buying those, the CEs, that when you start adding or removing features, it can be pretty convincing, I think, for a small group of people that this is just essentially a physical ball lock instead of a virtual. I don't think it will actually help them that much on the sales side. I wouldn't be worked up about that. I am more concerned, actually, about how well – I'm wondering if it's almost going to be like Avengers where you noted at least a few weeks ago you were selling premiums versus pros on a five to one level.
    9:46
    The SE looks so stripped. Yeah. I, I just, I would be, again, I, I've kind of come around a little bit watching more video on Avengers, but you know, and my initial impression is giving up that entire upper play field and that really cool, uh, guitar neck ball lock and the cam lights and the cool set, even the cool little baby symbols. It's a lot. It's a lot to give up. The hot rails are just white instead of RGB. That, well, That's one of the coolest features. Yeah, and the thing is, because at least through the promo video, which, by the way, good job. I really enjoyed it. Thank you.
    10:20
    Is this so far, and I'm not saying it's good or bad gameplay. I haven't played the game. But so much of everything I see in this is about theme integration, and you lose so much without that. Like, this is what puts it above all other theme integrated themes I've seen. Yeah, you're right. This might be the most integrated theme I've ever seen.
    10:42
    Wow. It's very integrated. They thought of everything. Yeah. No, I mean, it's just like it looks, watching the video and the gameplay, it looks like a concert is going on in there. So bravo.
    10:57
    But once you see what the CENL are offering, and then it's like, okay, well, the lights are less impressive. It's still cool, but the lights are less impressive. Yeah, I haven't been able to play the standard. When we went up there, the standard was off into a different development room where they weren't showing it. But it did surprise me to hear that the developers up there and the creators said that whenever they playing one another they play on the standard a lot because it is super super fast You don't have the stop of that upper play field. You've got orbits and loops and ramps. That wouldn't surprise me. And, in fact, I would not be shocked, even though visually I love the level of integration on the LE and CE. I wouldn't be surprised if I myself actually prefer playing the SE because a lot of times upper playfields aren't that fun for me to do I mean it is a one flipper upper playfield which seems to have basically one goal so I can see where you'd be like yeah that slows it up I'd rather I'm snapping I'd rather have that speed get me that speed kind of like Game of Thrones Pro I love the gameplay far more even though I like the look of the upper playfield on the LE yeah on the CE See, I think this might be Jersey Jack's first CE sellout. I really do. Do you know what the count is? Is it 250? I think it's 500.
    12:20
    I think it's 500. Maybe. I mean, maybe. Well, the reason being is I find the CE art package the best art package of the bunch. I do agree. I agree with you on that. I do. Plus, you get the first time they've done this chrome Radcal, so you get this really cool, intense type of texture that they do. Really slick, but it's got this embossed look. You get the different aesthetics on the outside, like the skull on the shooter, the roses. You get the reservoir, the coma reservoir in the apron. But you also get that topper, Dennis. I know the topper, it doesn't look spectacular. But Eric Menier said that sound bar, that additional sound bar integrated into the system, adds 50% more audio experience on there. Then you get the undercab RGB. Remember on the, and behind the head, I believe, RGB. So on Wonka CE, they just had red lighting under. And it's not that cheap stuff. I mean, they were built in really nice stuff. You get the RGBs on that one as well. Plus you get different colored plastics. I think purple based plastics instead of red. You get sparkles and sprinkles on the play field. You get the signature from the entire band. Signed drumsticks.
    13:38
    My only issue is Jersey Jack CEs are so expensive. They're so expensive. Their other CEs are really good. I just think for a lot of people, they're like, there's just not enough additional game. For the $3,000, yeah. There's just not enough additional game there to go for that versus the LE. So I think that they sell, as usual, more LEs than anything else. Oh, yeah. I think every three model, each model really kind of has something for everybody because they dropped that standard price yet again. They're cheaper than Stern Premiums, Dennis. Yeah. Pricing-wise, I think that's – I'm glad to see it. I'm glad to see that they're trying to get a model of their game in a much more competitive price point for those that just – They can't be or are too uncomfortable shelling out these high dollar amounts.
    14:33
    I mean, that's my issue with, like, I thought about buying a dialed in, and I'm just like, I just, not new. I'm like, no, I can't do it new. I just, I mean, I could, but it would make me uncomfortable.
    14:45
    This is, I think this is going to do really well by Jersey Jack. I like the proximity sensors that they're using now. It just rolls over an insert. I really like the little Cam servo lights Just as a cool thing I know that's not going to interact with the ball It interacts with the Feel of the game Again it's that theme integration This wins Twippy for Theme integration Yes yeah it's hard Not to and light show This is the most dynamic I also think it Though this is not I suppose a surprise if anyone's looked at any of the JP DeWin's other stuff. I think it probably wins animation as well. Animations are sick. They are unbelievable. And you talked before, and then we'll wrap this up, but you talked about the translucent pick spinners, and they're even more fun in person. They hit so well. Again, it's like, to me, I didn't even notice initially they were translucent until you pointed it out to me, but it's just so thematically, it makes so much sense, But I never would have thought of it. Let's mount some guitar pick style spinners. It's like, oh, it looks so rock. You know, that's a little easy thing, but it looks so rock. It's just the extra details. Extra details. Speaking of details, you and I will sit down next week with a special guest to talk all about Guns N' Roses pinball, as well as give our follow-up thoughts as we're seeing more media unroll probably daily here. anything you want to add to this man I'm still thinking about that it looks a lot better than I thought it would that's a good from you that's a good take I mean I don't know what my expectations exactly were probably biased a bit by the as I was with Avengers with the okay we're revisiting a theme that we've done before and I've just I don't favor that from a theme choice perspective but this looks so much better than the prior Guns N' Roses. And as far as band theme, theme integration goes, much less just theme integration in general yeah it is top It probably I think it the best theme integration i seen i can i think this beats hobbit on theme integration which is typically what i you know i not a hobbit fan but i never dismissed its theme integration but i think this probably beats it i could definitely see the argument now i don't buy off a theme integration though so of course i need more i need to see more and learn more about gameplay and of course i'd want to have my hands on it to know this would be a game for me but visually i i definitely would enjoy just watching this game be streamed. Yep, that's coming as well. For those of you who haven't seen the stream already, that is coming very soon. I do have a concern.
    17:36
    It's hard to obviously, a promo video can only do so much, but I've already heard talk. This is a fairly adult game. Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't do their family friendly. They wanted to be true to this brand. And I guess there is a more family friendly mode you can put it in, but it only does so much so i i wanted to ask you real quick like what do you think in terms of because this thus isn't going to fully appeal to the usual jjp buyer because i know there are some who loved jjp because of their family friendly themes it does ship in family friendly mode uh so you're not going to get any profanities and there's also uh omission of four songs that guns and roses did that's in the game. That's a huge loss, though. I mean, I get it. I'm assuming the band was like, don't you dare radiophile us. Well, that's what Eric Menyer said as well. He said, look, when it came to, we were not going to compromise just the classic nature of these songs, so we weren't going to put radio edits in. We might have cleaned up the other songs, but for these songs, it just messes everything up, so they just omitted them. So it ships with the family-friendly mode. But then if you turn that off, wow, because the band members are the ones doing the call-outs. I mean, you're hearing Slash. You're hearing Melissa, the keyboardist. You're hearing, I forgot what the other guitarist's name is. You thought Jack fucking Pot and Metallica was eye-opening.
    19:10
    And even some of the art choices, they're adult. Yeah, I see, like the sling plastics. Those might be a little controversial True to the band Beautiful stuff But this is not for children's ears In the adult mode That makes sense I mean I'm not bothered by them Choosing to do a more adult themed pin I still feel like it's that turning of the page Moving to Chicago We're going to start doing things a little different I agree with you This feels like this is almost a The first pin of the rebirth of JJP Yeah the 2.0 You can tell new people are calling the shots. That's a good point. It's a good close here. Everybody, follow us at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. Dennis, where can they reach you if they don't pursue that email? They can always go over to eclecticgamers.com and find a way to contact me there. You can reach me at straight down the middle of pinballshowvideoseries, sdtmpinball at gmail.com. Make sure to go check out the greatest of all time helping me unbox the Avengers Ellie, as well as all the brand new content we have for JJP's GNR, including Greg Bone and I's first impressions of the game. That's either coming soon or it's live right now. And we did get the opportunity to do the promotional video stuff for JJP. We're really excited about that, and I'm very proud of the work that we were able to do there. So check that out. And buy a pinball machine. If you want to buy a brand new Guns N' Roses, buy through Flippin' Out Pinball. That would be greatly appreciated. My wife, Nicole, and I are taking orders now. I don't know what the status is of CE, so message call for that. You can also buy brand new Avengers. Those are still rolling out quite plentifully.
    20:55
    And anything else you're looking for, Escalera, Stair Climbing Hand Truck. Oh, I'm tired. I'm edited out, Dennis. Can't wait to edit this episode.
    21:05
    Fun times. Also listen to the Puppet Pals. Final Round Pinball Podcast, Pinball Chronicles, Just Another Pinball Podcast, etc., etc., etc. It's actually Silver Ball Chronicles. I'm doing it off the web. Sorry, David Dennis and Ron Hallett. My apologies. For Dennis Creasel, I'm Zachary Manning. And remember, you've got to have your roses and your guns. And always practice safe pinball. And some of you must not want free Avenger Stern banner because we need more submissions. Up your game. let's see some good artwork for a potential the pinball show t-shirt do it now i'm talking to you zombie yeti that's right calling you out jeremy up so long everybody that guns and roses though
    22:07
    Bye. The World of Mine