Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

The Pinball Show Ep 102: Let It Go

The Pinball Network·video·1h 27m·analyzed·Jun 7, 2022
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Pinball Show Ep 102 covers Stern production updates, JJP Toy Story rumors, and Keith Elwin tournament controversy.

Summary

Episode 102 of The Pinball Show features hosts Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discussing industry news, including updates on Stern Pinball production (Godzilla Premium and upcoming releases), speculation about Jersey Jack Pinball's next title (rumored to be Toy Story), and a detailed news segment covering multiple manufacturers and upcoming games. The episode also includes heated discussion about Keith Elwin's controversial ball drain at the World Tournament.

Key Claims

  • Godzilla Premium toppers are shipping now, with next run in July

    high confidence · Zach Minney stated this as current shipping status for Stern Pinball's popular title

  • Jersey Jack Pinball's next game is rumored to be Toy Story by Pat Lawlor

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby's news segment cites 'overwhelming sentiment online' but notes 'still has been no official word' from JJP

  • George Gomez has taken over a James Bond (007) license and is developing a new three-flipper layout from scratch

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby reports this as rumor based on Gomez revealing at 'super awesome pinball show' that he took over license Steve Richie was working on

  • Lyman Sheets' final code is almost ready and in final testing stages

    high confidence · Craig Bobby cites Josh Sharpe's statements on Final Round Pinball podcast; radical changes made to scoring and strategy

  • Haggis Pinball's Fathom Revisited made its first public North American appearance at Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show in Tacoma, Washington

    high confidence · Craig Bobby reported the demo machine (used by Fast Pinball during board design) was displayed with positive reception

  • Home Pin's Spinal Tap machine will begin final assembly and boxing in late June

    high confidence · Craig Bobby cites Knapp Arcade website; software has been updated and owners can upgrade without handheld programmer

  • Deep Root's Turner Logic may be contracting out a limited number of Raza machines

    low confidence · Dennis Creasel speculated on Eclectic Gamers podcast that Turner Logic bought Raza IP and demo units; described as 'a big maybe' with 'completely unrelated' possible alternative explanation

  • Dutch Pinball moved to larger premises 18 months ago; original Big Lebowski buyers from 2016 still haven't received machines

    high confidence · Craig Bobby reports grand opening celebration; cites criticism from long-time critics including Knapp's Pinball Podcast

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm just glad they don't pull a Keith Elwin and just have it walk off the line. Before it's done.”

    Zach Minney@ 17:48 — Reference to Keith Elwin potentially leaving Stern Godzilla production line early; sets up later discussion of tournament controversy

  • “Mean but true. Mean but true.”

    Zach Minney@ 20:46 — Zach's reaction to Knapp Arcade's criticism that his Toy Story prediction accuracy is poor; self-aware acknowledgment of speculation track record

  • “I don't care what he did. It's his game, right? It's his, it was his decision, what do you want him to do, sandbag?”

    Dennis Creasel@ 29:21 — Dennis's dismissive take on Keith Elwin drain controversy; frames it as player choice rather than ethical issue

  • “It just takes one ball. Just takes one ball.”

    Zach Minney@ 31:09 — Common pinball tournament saying about comeback potential; cited as reason some questioned Elwin's decision to concede

  • “if he's been playing and he saw where he was at on ball three of Dialed In, and he thought, you know what, I'm really just not having fun right now. If you're not having fun, then why not concede?”

    Dennis Creasel@ 32:22 — Dennis offers philosophical defense of Elwin's choice based on entertainment value rather than competition

  • “People really digging that. They like that. Yeah, but they don't like, I saw someone who said, one person, I can't say who they. They didn't like the song.”

    Zach Minney / Dennis Creasel@ 21:24 — Light discussion of mixed audience reception to new video intro song; Dennis references being slow to uptake change

Entities

Zach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonCraig BobbypersonKeith ElwinpersonPat LawlorpersonGeorge GomezpersonSteve RichiepersonJosh Sharpeperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Stern Godzilla Premium toppers shipping now; next run scheduled July. Mandalorian Pro/Premiums and Rush Pro/Premiums expected June-July.

    high · Zach Minney: 'Godzilla premiums are shipping out...next month [July] we'll see another one...next is going to be likely Mandalorian Pro and premiums...then Rush Pro and premiums here in June, July'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Overwhelming community sentiment that Jersey Jack Pinball's next title is Toy Story by Pat Lawlor; timing speculation around Buzz Lightyear movie release June 17.

    medium · Craig Bobby: 'Based on the overwhelming sentiment online that the next JJP title designed by veteran pinball creator Pat Lawler will be Toy Story, there still has been no official word from JJP's marketing...if JJP's next game is in fact Toy Story, it might be a good guess that JJP would make an announcement...to coincide with the theatrical opening of the Buzz movie'

  • ?

    machine_intel: George Gomez has taken over James Bond (007) license; developing new three-flipper layout from scratch; rumored to be Stern's final cornerstone game of 2022.

    medium · Craig Bobby: 'George Gomez reveal...that Gomez has taken over the license for the game rumor has it a James Bond themed title that Steve Richie was working on when he left Stern Pinball for Jersey Jack and is developing a completely new three flipper layout for it from scratch'

  • ?

    code_update: Lyman Sheets final code in final testing stages; radical changes to scoring and strategy to fix flaws; improves choices and overall playing experience.

    high · Craig Bobby citing Josh Sharpe: 'Josh confirmed that Lyman's code will be built on top of the base game, improving some of the scoring and strategy flaws...radical changes have been made to score Big and in areas that matter most'

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.263

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:13
The Pinball Network is online. Launching, The Pinball Show. Pinball Show It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality.
0:54
Well hello all of you fine people out there in the pinball show universe. This is episode 102. We are your hosts Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel. Dennis, how are you today? I was like, you delivered it so flat. How are you today? This floor paint is taking it out of you. Oh, my poor floor. Poor floor. I can't even speak today. Oh my gosh. Well, it's good to be back, Zach. You had a great episode101 with Mr. Greg Bone. Oh, yes. The most popular person of Straight Down the Middle, a pinball show. This is probably true, unfortunately. You could, I think, usurp him if you would finally do the rubber band episode you promised two years ago. I've got one question for you. These people aren't seeing us. What the hell? What happened to the video? Well, and that's on me because I hate doing video. And it's not about recording it. It's not about you editing it. Of course you hate it. Because I don't mind you doing the edits. I don't mind you uploading them. I don't mind there being a video version. I'm not a fan of pinball, but I do mind having to look presentable. That's a pain in the ass. Because we normally, as we did with the video, record on Sunday, as I told you then, and as I told the listeners about the lights. See, I don't normally have the lights on. I'm sitting here in darkness. It's the lights. Yeah, I am in front of the oblivion. I'm in front of the all-consuming bagel and I just want to sit here in near silence, in near total darkness and just talk. So you're a bagel eater? No, that was a reference to a movie. Oh, I have no... Do you eat bagels though? You seem like the bagel type. I mean, I've had bagels before. I don't normally eat breakfast foods. Hmm.

  • Flippin' Out Pinball only received 10 Elvira toppers from a backorder of 50

    high confidence · Zach Minney stated he only got 20% of his backorder; described as the last run for the year

  • Keith Elwin deliberately drained ball 3 without attempting to come back during World Tournament quarter-finals

    high confidence · Zach and Dennis discuss tournament incident; sparked debate about respect, conceding, and sportsmanship in pinball

  • “Da Barn. Da facility. With full bar and showers. That's where Dennis is gonna hang out when he comes and spends the night.”

    Zach Minney @ ~15:00 — Description of Flippin' Out Pinball's new facility expansion; context for epoxy flooring saga

  • “I don't mind you doing the edits. I don't mind you uploading them. I don't mind there being a video version. What I mind is having to look presentable.”

    Dennis Creasel@ 1:49 — Dennis's candid reason for avoiding video recording; explains the gap in video episode releases

  • “The market is so hot right now and people are spending, they're seeing people spend a lot of money on pinball machines...Why even try? Let's just get the LE.”

    Zach Minney @ ~75:00 — Analysis of Stern's decision to potentially skip Standard edition for next cornerstone (rumored Toy Story); reflects hot market conditions

  • “Well, it's felt like that all year, Zach. So maybe now it really, really feels like it.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~60:00 — Skeptical response to Zach's belief that JJP announcement feels imminent; Dennis notes months of false anticipation

    • Turner Logic
    person
    Ken Cromwellperson
    Alex Mossperson
    Jeff Teolisperson
    Tonyperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Haggis Pinballcompany
    Home Pincompany
    Dutch Pinballcompany
    Deep Rootcompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    The Pinball Showorganization
    Final Round Pinball Podcastorganization
    Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
    Eclectic Gamers Podcastorganization
    Knapp Arcadeorganization
  • ?

    product_launch: Haggis Pinball's Fathom Revisited demo machine (used by Fast Pinball) made first North American public appearance at Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show in Tacoma, Washington.

    high · Craig Bobby: 'Haggis Pinball's Fathom Revisited Machine made an appearance at the Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show in Tacoma, Washington this past weekend...The machine on display was supposedly one of the demo machines used by Fast Pinball'

  • ?

    product_launch: Home Pin's Spinal Tap pinball machine entering final assembly and boxing in late June; software updated and owners can upgrade without handheld programmer.

    high · Craig Bobby citing Knapp Arcade: 'Spinal Tap Machines will soon start final assembly and boxing later in June...Software has been updated and machine owners will be able to upgrade the game's software easily without the Thunderbird-style handheld programmer'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Deep Root posting cryptic clues on homepage ('More than meets the eye', 'Great work, but don't miss the forest for the trees'). Speculation that Turner Logic may be contracting limited Raza machines.

    low · Craig Bobby: 'cryptic and some say troll-like coded messages appearing on the Deep Root homepage...Dennis Creasle surmised...that the original code developer Turner Logic bought the Raza IP and demo units...may...be looking to have a limited number of Atomicindeer Raza machine contracted out, but that's a big maybe'

  • ?

    product_concern: Multiple manufacturers experiencing supply/production delays: CGC LE toppers awaiting parts; Stern Elvira toppers only 20% of backorder fulfilled; Flippin' Out epoxy floor saga cost $10,000 and required outside crew.

    high · Zach: 'I got 10' toppers out of 50 backorder; 'This is the last run of them this year'; 'we had to call in some favors and have another crew come in and drop $10,000 to scrape up all of the old epoxy'

  • ?

    community_signal: Keith Elwin's deliberate ball drain in World Tournament quarter-finals sparked community debate about sportsmanship, respect, and conceding. Hosts and community divided on legitimacy of the choice.

    high · Zach: 'Keith I'm in the top 8 with Elwyn draining Ball 3...without the chance to provide a big comeback...There's a lot of people that are mixed on this. Some thinking it was a sign and a show of respect. Some people thinking I don't care that he did that but it's still shitty'

  • ?

    product_concern: Dutch Pinball celebrated grand opening of new facility but has been criticized for extremely delayed Big Lebowski machine deliveries. Original buyers from 2016 still waiting; only 2 machines shipped per 1 new order.

    high · Craig Bobby: 'Dutch Pinball celebrated the grand opening...Long time critics of Dutch Pinball...thought the celebration wasn't in the best of taste as many original buyers of the Big Lebowski game going back to 2016 still haven't received their machines yet despite Dutch shipping out two machines to this group of early buyers for every one new machine'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern likely skipping Standard edition for next cornerstone title (rumored Toy Story). Market is hot; collectors/operators buying Premium/LE; no demand for stripped-down Standard. Strategy based on GNR Standard underperformance.

    medium · Zach: 'the market is so hot right now...they're seeing people spend a lot of money on pinball machines...Why even try? Let's just get the LE'; Dennis: 'they just weren't selling the standards in the past...smart decision based off of the GNR performance'

  • ?

    content_signal: The Pinball Show posted first video episode (100); positive audience response; plans to continue video format. Dennis resistant due to presentation requirements; prefers podcast consumption.

    high · Zach: 'the pinball show video intro, people really digging that. They like that'; Dennis: 'I hate doing video...I don't mind having to look presentable. That's a pain in the ass'; numbers for Episode 100 were positive

    • 2:43
    I'm trying to see what I can do with that. You can't really do anything with that. But, you can, tell us about your floor paint. So, most people, Zach, that I've ever, you know, I know people that will go and be like, I don't like carpet, I want hardwood floors. And then there'll be others that'll be like, yeah, yeah, no, the kitchen's linoleum, or we're going to do some tile. I never before heard someone tell me, let's delay the record because I need a, I had to game play with the crew on a metallic epoxy coated flooring. Now here, I'm gonna make it quick because I don't want anybody falling asleep, but in the Flippin' Out facility, the new facility is underway. The Barn. Well. Da Barn. Da facility. Da Barn. The facility is, it's got like a shop side and it's got a hangout side with full bar and showers. That's where Dennis is gonna hang out when he comes and spends the night. Jennifer Fromarksnde leon'tlearnynigh utan問 tinball, Steve Follett, VO Testängen ape Q the So that happened and I was like, well, I don't want to pay for that. So he had to chip all of that up and put epoxy, which he's not done on yet. So on the fancy side, I wanted this nice galaxy based black and blues and browns coming out from under the clouds of the auroras. Yes, you wanted to look like a bruise. Go on. That's right. Well, very bruise like with metallic flakes. violentonte Lecture So this was really, really bad. And I just, I was like, here's the deal. I'm insightful enough that I know that if I start telling people this, they're going to be like, that's because Zach's a picky bastard. Nobody can ever make him happy. He can't work well with others. Yada, yada. I knew that was going to happen. So I started showing people pictures because I've researched this stuff. I know how metallic epoxy works. I know the, the chemical process. Now I've researched everything cause I want this right. And so anyway, push comes mundial world history television in the country Tekno Parl, TEXA alarmingONGrand妹 4 Kate, The door way. Idiot. So needless to say, we had to call in some favors and have another crew come in and drop $10,000 to scrape up all of the old epoxy and to relay new stuff in efforts to get a kitchen in here in two days. Wow. Yeah, that's just one of the headaches of this facility. That's quite a saga. So do you refer to that original horrid color scheme as cookies and cream? Amenite messes up the punchline. R Metall jackets watch humor for Joy العرσι��ledge Har planteinne aps Qiu B 낂 and c Four. FOREVER. BEN and P RAW your video. That doesn't know Cersei. Now I wish we'd done a video so you could show us. I'll have to put it on the face. Maybe there will be a video piece. Stay tuned. So what have you been up to, Dennis? That's been my pet. Oh, I had some work presentation stuff. We're getting ready for a big conference, so I've just been really busy managing all that because I basically do it unilaterally. So it's just like getting all the pieces together. Not hard, just tedious, that sort of thing. I see. Traveling and everything. I haven't repainted in years. Do you think you'd be willing... do you have a garage, don't you? I do, yeah. Or a board or something? Would you ever be willing to paint the floor of that?
    8:40
    You know, I could see painting like cement floor. Yeah, I could. I had never really considered it. You know, my co-host on Eclectic Gamers podcast, Tony, constantly, constantly means maybe like once a year, says, you know, Dennis, you should just I'm not going to go into too much detail here. I'm going to just convert part of the garage to blow out the game room more, so I can have more than seven games. Because I don't park in the garage. I just use it for storage and work. Sure. Like projects. So I could, in theory, extend—my game room is right off the garage. There's a door that separates them. So you could actually just take that portion of the wall out and just extend it further, and I could probably more than double my current game count. Wow. It doesn't even have to be pinball machines, either. You could put all kinds of stuff in there. Yeah, my game room's really weird. They're not really great photos I have of it online. You kind of get an impression if you look at any with my neon sign. But it's really, really long and very, very narrow. It's like in the early 80s suburbanite types were wanting to put in a single bowling lane or something. That's what the room feels like it was configured for. Do you think we could have a bro day, me, you and Tony, epoxy together to the beats of like an old 80s song with our handkerchiefs on our heads? We're just, we're epoxy in a way trying not to pass out from the fumes. That sounds like a great day.
    10:01
    No. There it is. There. Oh, should we jump over? I mean, I could envision it, but yeah, I do think we would just pass out.
    10:08
    And then we'd have flail pattern in my epoxy. We'll see what Craig Bobby's got over at the news desk. I'm a, what have you felt about Craig Bobby's top stories with Craig Bobby?
    10:21
    They're good. He's doing a good job. I like that. You like the little animations too that I'm... I didn't see the video for 101. Okay. Yeah. PINBALL SHOW NEWS UPDATE Hello and welcome to the Pinball Show's News Update. I'm Craig Bobby. Well, a busy week as we start the month of June as the pinball world waits with Baited Breath For official news out of Jersey Jack Pinball on details of their next release. Based on the overwhelming sentiment online that the next JJP title designed by veteran pinball creator Pat Lawler will be Toy Story, there still has been no official word from JJP's marketing and communications specialist Ken Cromwell on what this new title will in fact be. With the Buzz Lightyear spin-off movie releasing in the movie theaters on June 17th, And if JJP's next game is in fact Toy Story, it might be a good guess that JJP would make an announcement of their new title to coincide with the theatrical opening of the Buzz movie. But as always, we shall have to wait and see. And speaking of waiting, the pinball world is continuing to wait on news from Stern Pinball on what their next cornerstone title could be and on Stern's next round of code updates for their very popular Stern Insider Connected platform. Fans of the new online Stern platform that launched last year were excited to hear Stern's Executive Vice President and Chief Creative Officer Officer George Gomez reveal on the super awesome pinball show at the end of May that new updates were on their way with more announcements forthcoming later this year on new features and official plans for the online platform. Fans of Stern were also excited to hear that Gomez has taken over the license for the game rumor has it a James Bond themed title that Steve Richie was working on when he left Stern Pinball for Jersey Jack and is developing a completely new three flipper layout for it from scratch. Taking the rumor one step further, EGP and TPS host Dennis Creasel stated that a Gomez 007 pinball machine Terms that are not relevant to the content of the show may very well be Stern's final Cornerstone game of 2022. Speaking of final with standard edition Cactus Canyon games now making their way into the hands of distributors and customers, Josh Sharpe shared news on the Final Round Pinball podcast with host Jeff Teolis and Martin Robbins recently that Lyman Sheets final code and ruleset is almost ready to go and is in the final stages of testing. Josh confirmed that Lyman's code will be built on top of the base game, improving some of the scoring and strategy flaws to the already decent shooting machine. Josh commented that radical changes have been made to score Big and in areas that matter most to people while playing the game, forcing players to make choices that aren't as obvious as the original and maintaining Lyman's vision for improving the classic title that will improve on the overall playing experience. Ooh, can't wait! We still have no official information from CGC indicating that their LE models will be shipping soon, hopefully sometime during the summer once missing parts for the game's topper arrive. Speaking of Martin Robbins, it looks like Haggis Pinball's Fathom Revisited Machine made an appearance at the Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show in Tacoma, Washington this past weekend for people to try and experience. The event will mark the Haggis Built machines first public experience on North American soil. The machine on display was supposedly one of the demo machines used by Fast Pinball during their board design process. This past week, that fathom revisited machine that was temporarily put into storage during a home renovation was finally revealed to excited fans on YouTube as proud owner Alex Moss showed off edited video of the machines build quality, art and basic gameplay Which was nothing short of spectacular. Can you believe all that gorgeous chrome? Oh, Nelly! Come on now! And it's been a long time coming, but we might not have to wait much longer to get a glimpse of Home Pin's upcoming Spinal Tap Pinball Machine. Courtesy of the Knapp Arcade website, we received information that, quote, Spinal Tap Machines will soon start final assembly and boxing later in June, where we hope to share photos and videos with you in these next weeks. Software has been updated and machine owners will be able to upgrade the game's software easily without the Thunderbird-style handheld programmer. Handheld programmer? Say whaaaaat? And lastly, our former Deep Root correspondent Chris Chandler has been kind enough to keep us updated, saying that there have been more cryptic and some say troll-like coded messages appearing on the Deep Root homepage. The latest messages include the expression, More than meets the eye and, Great work, but don't miss the forest for the trees, a new clue will arrive each week. Our own Dennis Creasle surmised earlier in the week on his Eclectic Gamers podcast that the original code developer Turner Logic bought the Raza IP and demo units and also owns the Raza code and may, with a humongous capital M, be looking to have a limited number of Atomicindeer Raza [# machine contracted out, but that's a big maybe as the website puzzles and Turner speculated desire to potentially have the Raza machine made could be completely unrelated. So basically a giant festering pinball turd. And finally Dutch Pinball celebrated the grand opening of their new larger premises that they moved into 18 months ago, which, much like the extremely slow production of their big Lebowski pinball machines, has been delayed by the pandemic. The Dutch Pinball facility in the semi-rural town of Herkenbosch, Netherlands, which is adjacent to the German border. According to the pinballnews.com website, visitors and guests to the open house were treated to factory tours, catered appetizers, and free alcohol, along with a chance to play Finnish Big Lebowski games and other pinball machines that Dutch has collected in their own factory-style arcade. Long time critics of Dutch Pinball including Knapp's Pinball Podcast thought the celebration wasn't in the best of taste as many original buyers of the Big Lebowski game going back to 2016 still haven't received their machines yet despite Dutch shipping out two machines to this group of early buyers for every one new machine that is now sold. Well, that's all for this week for the Pinball Show. I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side. Well, thanks Craig for all that great work yet again. He's good. He got us a lot of news again around the industry. Let's talk about the king themselves Stern Pinball though. I wanted to give people an update that I think it was last week Godzilla Premiums were shipping out. Everybody should be getting… Again? Yeah, or have had their Godzilla Premiums. Aren't they all caught up on those Zach? Oh. Oh, listen to that little gleeful cackle. The next run of Godzilla premiums is in July. So next month. Wow. They're keeping it a high priority. It's still not enough! This never will never be enough. Greatest game of all time. Oh my gosh. Oh wait, that's Jurassic Park. Never mind. I'm just glad they don't pull a Keith Elwin and just have it walk off the line. Before it's done. Ouch. So mean. The end. That's just speaking the truth. It wasn't me. It was just, you know, facts are facts. We'll talk about that here soon. So Godzilla premiums are shipping out until, and then July we'll see another one. But next, I'm thinking next is going to be likely listener Mandalorian Pro and premiums. And then we're going to see Rush Pro and premiums here in June, July. So if you've got those on order, there's a good chance you're going to get those. I think we have some extra Mandalorian Pro and Premiums too if anybody's interested. We got spots open. And out of nowhere, Dennis, another topper was shipped to us, a bundle of toppers that I wasn't even giving a heads up on. I didn't even know it was coming. All of a sudden I see Elvira toppers make their way back to our shop. So how many toppers are in a bundle? Um, I don't know. What is a bundle of sticks?
    18:49
    I would, mine were 20% of what I had backordered. Womp womp. So, 20%... Well, that doesn't really give me a sense of volume, so... I guess they found a stock... I mean, I don't... Perhaps they found a stockpile of stickers and were able to turn those out. I don't mind to say, I think I still had 50 Elvira toppers on order. I got 10. Wow. That's a lot on order. Oh, is it? No. Well, to me, for a game that they keep pushing... you know, they don't make any more of because they keep pushing it back... Well, you are talking to the Topper King. I'm a topper king. Well that's... Yeah, I understand but I just assumed you'd at least do value meal options. Oh, I see. Yeah, now I just... I only got... And, and this is the last run of them this year I'm told. That doesn't surprise me. Got a lot of people still on the list. My apologies for Stern not sending a note. That sucks. That's a pretty much... I'm trying to think besides the next Cornerstone coming out in August, I don't think there's We've got a lot of stuff going on at Stern pinball or really the rest of the pinball world but everybody's still gearing up for Jersey Jack pinball's next game. It feels like we're getting pretty close. Well it's felt like that all year, Zach. So maybe now it really, really feels like it. To me it's felt like it since March, early March I'd say. I've been expecting this game. So the rumors are imminent. But the rumors have been imminent for months now. Well, we're still in the window of you and I's guess. You and I guessed it to be June. Yeah, I mean, there's still pretty much the whole month to go for them to formally do the reveal this month. But, you know, if I'm wrong, what did Knapp Arcade say in one of his articles that I'm like some sort of shortstop guy hitting a single on... I don't know. I had to message him and I said, I don't know what this means, but it sounds mean. And he said, it means you're not accurate. And I go, oh, okay, then yes, it's mean but true. Mean but true. Rumor Corner, look, it just rumor-tains people. It's not. It's accuracy levels, eh, not the best. For someone that just hates the singing, you now have a segment intro song to... That would, but I didn't request that. Here, Glenn, did he do some of the stuff for Triple Drain too? He tried, but I think they went with somebody else. Oh, this could be, you know, because I don't know the, he just sent it out of the blue and emailed us at eclecticgamerspodcast at gmail.com and just sent this song. Man, speaking of intros, the pinball show video intro, people really digging that. They like that. Yeah, but they don't like, I saw someone who said, one person, I can't say who they. They didn't like the song. So one person didn't like the new song. What'd you think about it? I thought it was well done. Uh, the song's okay, but, um, I mean, I'd still think of the old one myself too, so. But I'm one of those where, you know, I can be a little slow on the uptake of change. That just what I chalked it up to I set my ways Be looking forward to the next video version of the pinball show episode 174 Aww why not 175 I think me and Craig Bobby might still just run with this video Craig's probably gonna be like, I took like 85 photos for you of various facial expressions. I think you did this week too. But no, he sent a message, I saw he sent a message saying that he only expected it to be one time. Yes, true. You're the only one who wants to do more. That's how you are though. You try to pressure people into changing from a podcast to some sort of vlog. You gotta fill the bellies of the beast. You have straight down the middle for this creative outlet. You don't need to videify the pinball show. Have you seen the numbers, Dennis? Yeah. The numbers were fantastic. Numbers for 100 were, yeah. Numbers don't lie. I only report what's positive. I know there were, I had a negative comment. Someone gave a negative comment to me on the, on the YouTube. Well, not like, not like being mean, just disagreeing with my, um, some of my claims regarding Haggis. What'd they say? Oh, I think they indicated that Haggis did make more promises than- They were saying you were too soft. No, they didn't say soft specifically. I think they indicated that there were some contract. Well, I don't have a contract cause I haven't bought a fathom, but That purportedly there were more promises than just the one that wasn't really a promise but the deadline. It was about the deadlines where I'd said that they had that you know they had that original deadline they missed by a country mile. They were this person was indicating there were other deadlines that were given whereas all I ever had heard were there were you know here's what we're targeting but I had never heard them set a new deadline but purportedly those who had ordered games did have more deadlines so. They said that they were going to get them out eight weeks after full payment. And yeah, that's true. It has, it is, I think it's been eight weeks. Closing in on eight weeks. Well, I see, I don't know when every individual, I mean, you had mentioned on our last episode that you had not yet fully paid for all of them, even though they had sent you a bill. Well, but I did get my, my individual one came weeks prior to that where they did request full payment. This was more for the flipping out a lot. Right, right. And so you were waiting because they had not yet issued you the first game you had already fully paid for. And I did discuss this concern I had with them. They told me some things to reassure me and still a calculated risk, but I am going to take it. I know we have Haggis in the show later, so we'll go more into it because there's been developments that have, I feel, while not counteracting what I may have claimed regarding deadlines, Offensive cuts, Hot Q's, Mad Hatch stall of Korea, Fake haya Caleb Hot Car Depot, Hot Basketball, Drop Pop extra galera. WSallo Moren, A terrchio A L-E and a C, no standard. That doesn't really surprise me. Well, you know, it's a mix. I don't think it's surprising just given the fact how quickly they pulled the standards on GNR from production. Yes. You remember? It felt like a month. And the only part that makes me wonder is, at the time with GNR, with the pandemic, The standard was that companies pivot in my view to try and capture more location pinball and location pinball was not doing well during the pandemic. But now that we're on the right hand side of the bell curve on that, my thinking would be they might want to target again those locations. But if the issue is just no one's ordering that version because they strip too much stuff out, then no reason to waste your time making I think if they end up doing the two model thing this time around, it does make sense to me because they just, they weren't selling the standards in the past. And that's what I think it comes down to. I don't, I, I would say it's a smart decision based off of the GNR performance. And if demand starts coming up for a stripped down version, again, they can always do it as an experiment in the future. But conversely, if they were gonna do a standard model and if it is the rumored toy story, it's kind of the thing you'd want to do a standard on. But I think with them, I think their decision probably comes down to the market as well. The market is so hot right now and people are spending, they're seeing people spend a lot of money on pinball machines and they're seeing a lot of locations spend money on premium versions of Stern games or deluxe versions of American pinball. So they're thinking, you know, Why even try? Let's just get the LE. People will buy it and it'll all be good. They'll have to. They'll see operators wanting to have it if it is Toy Story. Like, well, we gotta get that. So. Yeah, no, I, again, I don't think it's a bad move on their part. If the rumor's true. Let's talk about whether or not you think last week's World Tournament there was any bad moves that went on there. I wanted to get your take on, because people, people have been talking about Keith I'm in the top 8 with Elwyn draining Ball 3 in the quarter semifinals or whatever. He was in the top 8. Drained at Ball 3 without the chance to provide a big comeback and show that he is the greatest of all time. There's a lot of people that are mixed on this. Some thinking it was a sign and a show of respect. Some people thinking I don't care that he did that but it's still shitty. Some people thinking that something else was going on. Did you see it and what were your takes? No, I rarely watch competitive pinball. But you did see it on the pinball show highlight. No. I didn't watch 101. I listened to it. I listened to it as a podcast. I have not seen any of the video from 101. I saw 100. Did you hear about the Gator? Yes, I heard 101. I don't know what the Gator thing was just strange. I don't think I should ever come up again. You didn't see the Chroma Key Green Screen Gator come up to the screen? No, I didn't watch the video. I listen to podcasts when I drive. That is how I consume podcasts. Shit! Which is part of the reason why I have very little interest in it being a video show because I listened to this as a podcast. I'm a pinball player. Why can't you just be like everybody else and put the video up in your car but just lie and tell people that you don't watch YouTube while you're driving? I am like everyone else. Most of the listeners came through via podcast, not via YouTube. Just be like everybody else. Isn't that what everybody does? I don't know what you're talking about. They watch the video but then they lie. No, of course I'm not watching while I'm driving. No, they're all good. All drivers are good. Ten and three. So what was your take? I don't care. Are you really just, you don't care? You don't care about the story? You don't care that he did it? I don't care what. I do not care that he did it. Hmm. I mean, why would I? It didn't, it's his, it's his game, right? It's his, it was his decision, I mean, what, what do you want him to do, sandbag? No. Well then, it, there, okay. You know, the idea of conceding, because that's essentially what it was. Mm-hmm. To me, as near as I can think of, there are three primary reasons why anyone would concede in a game. 2nd time call 3rd time call 4 days 5 days 7th 8th 9th 10th 12th 13th 14th 15th 16th Hey C! crouch couch Alright you know what I mean. Come on let me play too. I wanna play spoon Soup with him this year. We have seen extreme examples in sport like, do you remember the whole badminton thing back in the 2012 Olympics where the gold medal favorites were throwing through their first round games so they could face weaker teams later. That was really controversial. That's just a bad format set tha. But the rules appeared to allow it so that's what they did. Anyway so that's one example, for long term advantage. Doesn't apply to Elwyn though. So, option number two would be that in his view the rest of the game didn't matter. That the result was inevitable and there was no point to continue playing. Too big of a distance. And that's where people are debating. Now, we all know that in pinball, what's the saying? And I say this a lot in competitive pinball when I'm playing in tournaments is it just takes one ball. Just takes one ball. But from Elwin's perspective, while that is always conceptually factually true, you could always in theory use one ball and grind your way back. Sure. If he didn't see a path that he thought he could accomplish it, he may not have felt that it was worth trying to stand up there and attempt to control the ball for however many minutes it would take for him to do it. And again, because I didn't see it and I don't, I like dialed in but I don't know it super duper well. There were people who were talking So, we're talking about the state of the game and whether or not he was close on his SIM cards and how much work it was going to take for him to actually feasibly earn that many points. To a lot of people, it was achievable. Other people said it is, but his game state was not in a good position for it. And I know there's been a lot of debate as to whether or not Elwynn even fully understood the rules of the game. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay? So, that's maybe a possibility, but we know technically he could have saved it. Could have. Then there's the third one though, which I, if we're saying it's viable as a choice, is above reproach. And that would be that it stopped being fun. Hmm.
    32:22
    And so, to me, obviously I've not read any comment that he's made about this, if he's given any, but if he's been playing and he saw where he was at on ball three of Dialed In, and he thought, you know what, I'm really just not having fun right now. If you're not having fun, then why not concede and let the people who are having fun continue? I kinda take that option. That's why I don't care. He's not obligated to tell me or anyone else that he wasn't having fun anymore. This may not be particularly common in a lot of athletic sports. In games, conceding when you're not having fun anymore is pretty common. Really? In eSports and stuff? Yeah. Okay. Even during world championships? I don't know because I don't watch a lot of other games and other world championships. See most of the stuff I watch is like a team game or a team sport. I see. And it's different when it's a whole team. But Elwynn wasn't on a team. He's just playing for him. Team Elwynn. Yeah. But couldn't you argue that he's team Elwynn but he's also team pinball. He's also team Stern. He's also team... I don't think so. So you're taking the Charles Barkley. He doesn't have to be a role model. I didn't see any sponsors on his jersey in the game I didn't watch so I don't know if that's true or not. Yeah, I see you figuratively. What about the angle that people say it was his passing in the torch? It was just it was actually a very respectful thing to do.
    33:51
    You know, I don't I don't consider I don't agree with that either. I'm not saying it was disrespectful. My understanding is he went up afterwards and it was very the way he did it was in a respectful manner. I think that saying like it's I'm gonna I'm gonna have it's like it's not it's weird this isn't like a title belt thing like this is one event and one no this is one event if he comes back from that let's say he came back on ball three that doesn't prove he's the greatest of all time. No but it sure paints a picture to the legacy that is. Sure of course it does but if Michael Jordan went in there with someone else having a flu and it's still talked about to this day. It's, of course, it's, it's, it becomes a moment in gaming history, becomes like Evo moment number whatever, the one, I don't remember which one it was anymore. I should remember my Evo moments, but it's like, that doesn't mean, it doesn't mean as much as sometimes we in the moment want to assign to it. He did it in a very respectful way. He went up to his competitor afterwards, as my understanding was, you know, wasn't done to be insulting. But on the flip side, I don't, again, it was top eight. It wasn't like the The grand championship match. It's not a passing of the torch. We might view it like that in the sense like if Elwin doesn't play ever again, then I guess you could take it that way. I think it makes if he doesn't ever play again, then I kind of understand this more. But he'd already really stepped away. He was mostly, reportedly, he's been mostly retired from pinball tournaments. If you're in Escher's position, do you want Keith to walk away to guarantee you a win? Do you want Keith Elwyn, the greatest of all time, to bring his all?
    35:41
    I want him to bring his all. I mean, that would probably be my stance as well. I don't want to last for— But that being said, it's not my right to decide that he brings his best. 100% absolutely. If I were Elwyn, I would have played it out. But that's just me. But I've been in boats where I don't think I can make it and I don't and I do feel like I've wasted my time. You're like, this isn't fun, I just wanna go. Do you think Keith Elwin likes the limelight? One of the options that you didn't mention that I think could be pertinent is that maybe he realized, yeah, the odds were stacked against him but I can still keep the focus on me and my legend if I just walk away right now and keep people talking for the next couple weeks. No, I don't think so. Okay. His, uh, the legend is, you know, legends are legends because they're legendary. He's, he's got so many wins. No one, uh, to, to, uh, to pull a line from the Patriot, this will be forgotten. I don't think it will be. Tavington, this massacre will be forgotten. I think this goes down as part of his storyline now. I know I'm For better or worse. No, people, a walk off in a game full of people, it's, no, no one, we may, we pretend to care right now, but it's just not a big deal. This isn't, again, maybe if this had been like Escher and Elwin were the final two, a top eight decision to walk off, no one cares, not really. Four hours he played one person and this was in the ninth game. And he just walks away. It's just top eight. Escher didn't even win this. Just top eight. Hundreds of players. Just top eight. Didn't even win it. We're talking about like passing the torch and stuff. It's like Escher didn't even win. Yeah, but he's a young guy. Yeah, but being fourth at IFPA 17 isn't like gonna be the highlight of his career either. Maybe Escher dropped the torch. The flame went out. Maybe a storm front from the west moved in. You know what could have happened? I've been there. Maybe Keith Elwin had to poop. We don't know. That's where it falls under the game Stop Being Fun. It doesn't have to be about the game. I've been in tournaments where I almost went, I didn't go to the 403 Club tournament yesterday, I was thinking about it and then I decided, you know what, I don't want to drive 30 minutes in the rain and then I don't know how long I'll be playing and I hadn't eaten I'm going to be really hungry. I decided I would rather go eat food. So that's what I did. Yeah. And I've been, yeah, I've been in really long tournaments where I'm like, gosh, I just wish I would, I've actually said it. I wish I would lose so I could go eat. Yeah. When it stops being fun. I think that's a, that's a good way to wrap this discussion up because I'm with you. This is this, there's no professional pinball. Yes. Okay. People aren't making their living playing pinball. There's not formal rules. Let me take that back. There are rules, but they're not like high level standardization. The first thing we have to address if we actually formalize pinball as a professional sport is the substance use. Oh, God, back to this thing? No, well, think about it. How many people do you know that say they play their best with two drinks in them? Sure. That wouldn't be allowed in any other professional sport. Agreed. Because you're using a chemical advantage. Agreed. I mean, no, there are a lot of serious bridges we would have to cross if we were going to try and actually turn this into a real professional, like a league. Including like a collegiate level farming system. Yeah, I'm just saying. It's not at that. And I think what we do in hobby tournaments is different, even when they're high level. So I think a lot of people wanted me to crap on this move and say, this is what's wrong with competitive pinball, right? John Papadiuk, Black Water, person's name or role at Stern Pinball),, I mean, that's one of the things I saw in the pin side thread stated multiple times is, you know what, this is good just because we actually have people talking about competitive pinball who are not just the competitive pinball players. That's my take. I'm with you, Dennis, on I really don't care whether he did it or not. Do I think it's bad for the sport? Well, it depends on what angle you're looking at the health of a sport. I think it was really good exposure for the antics that can bring up some exposure in I'm in this Ron Hallett right now shaking his head. It's not Sport Ron, I know. In this hobby, in this industry. So I don't care if he did it. I would like to think I couldn't do it, but I'm not in that position to make the call whether I would have done it or not. So I don't think it's necessarily bad for his brand. I don't think it's good for his brand, but it does increase exposure for everything in general. Here's the issue I have, Dennis. Tell me if you agree. I don't think this is a Keith Elwin problem. I think if This is an IFPA slash competitive pinball problem. This key didn't do anything wrong. If you have to determine the fucking winner and the best player of a top eight playing for four hours straight on nine different games, your system is broken. I'm sorry. That is ridiculous. Nobody in their right mind would sit there and watch all of that to determine who the The best is. And many people's take is going to be this. What does it matter? We don't care what other people think. This is our internal Niche Hobby. This is what we want to do. This is how we want to determine it. Completely fine. But from the outside looking in, I think, can they not just play one game? Why are we playing nine games? Why are we playing for four hours? Even one game, if you're playing on Captain Fantastic, put me to sleep. Horrible pick by the way. I know competitively, whatever. It's the same strategy, everybody does the same thing. It's completely and utterly boring. But for four hours, I think it's an IFPA competition issue. Maybe Keith Elwin dropped out because he's so damn bored. And as was probably a lot of other people watching as well. Agree? Disagree? I agree that that length of time is probably by and large for viewers quite boring. It's part of the reason why I don't watch competitive pinball. But, you know, when you're, if you're talking about the competitive pinball and you're talking about the skill of the players, if you don't currently, at least, at least through the IFPA and the philosophy is that pinball is everything with flippers and different eras play very, very differently. And I think you would agree with that. Like EMs feel very, very different than early solid state, alphanumeric went a different route. And of course, modern pinball is different from that. So if you're not having that full mix, if you were to just play it all, C Bar), pinball on Rush. You're not really measuring who's the best in the world at pinball. You're measuring who's the best at the world on Rush. I disagree. So they're trying to get at that by using a mix of games from a mix of eras and having enough of a sampling. I mean, bear in mind, while the Super Bowl is ultimately one big game played, the World Series is best out of seven. As is NBA Finals and whatnot. So you know different games and sports address it differently And currently this is just how the format is A different league a different international maybe the National Flipper Pinball Association might choose a different system There not that there not an argument to do it a different way I just saying that this one this is what their philosophy is And you're not going to change their, I don't think you'll be successful in trying to change their philosophy that it should all just come down to like whatever the one brand new game is. I think that, uh, why can't we do a tournament where, uh, a bracket system like they did here and you start out, because the best pinball player, the best skill and for, uh, skill I think can be that person who can play Rush the best. But to get there, maybe the first round is EMs. And then after that, the second round is early solid state. And then after that, you know, then you have your big, your big modern games. And by the end of that bracket, that That will determine in one game, just one game, that's it. That's it. One game. Will you get a bad game here and there? Yeah, everybody does. Equals a playing field. That's where I'm at on competitive pinball. Still love you Josh Sharpe. Speaking of champions, Dave Fixx was on the Pinball News Pinball Magazine podcast this last week. Oh. Yeah, old Fixxie. I think I've not heard this so you'll have to brief me. Okay, we've got some notes here. Let's go through them. Dave Fick said that they began working with Sega on the Sonic the Hedgehog license. I didn't really know that. Sega! Then they hired Ryan McQuay, this is kind of a timeline of events. Okay, I see. Yeah, yeah, alright. So they were working on it before they hired Ryan, interesting. Yes, and I think as a, hey, we know we can get Ryan. Let's try to get this license, It's looking good. Let's hire Ryan. Then Dave Fick said they went back to Sega to quote finalize that license and then Sega indicated that they were going another direction with a different manufacturer. Oh, ouch. And then... But they kept Ryan on board. The old rug tug there. Yeah. But they kept Ryan. Why not? He's a good designer probably, maybe, sort of. We'll see. Yeah. And there's one thing American Pinball doesn't have enough of, it's the designers. A pinball show? That's right. So then Dave Fix claims that he said, asked Sega what manufacturer ended up getting the license, and they said, no, we're not going to say. I mean, that's not. That's a secret. Yeah. Keep it secret. Not important. It's kind of confidential. And he said, well, at least answer me this. Was it Stern Pinball? Let's start rolling. You've been through this before, probably been through your kids before where you're like, I'm not going to tell you. I'm just guessing that initially you humor them in the air like they're gonna eventually get there. Does it rhyme with term? So is it 80 plus percent of the market Stern? What was the answer? No, or yeah, the answer was no they whoa now That's actually surprising to me because you know Stern has that reputation of going in and stealing licenses Because that's what spooky said they did when they just had a picture of the new CEO and Gary Stern I don't know if Dave Fix is right. I don't know if he's right. I don't know. Or maybe he's right but Sega lied. That's right. Maybe the no, maybe, and maybe they didn't mean to. Maybe to Sega they meant no as in no, I'm not going to tell you if it's Stern or not. Like, well, can you tell, is it, at At least, was it Stern? No. No. And the no meant no, leave me alone, not no, it's not stern. Okay, but possibly it's not stern. Yeah, Sega ended up saying- It could be home pin. It was some kind of tree pinball company with roots, I don't know. I hope they didn't say that. So now Dave Fix is going through all the backchannels, he said, trying to find out who has the license. What it felt like to me is he was publicly trying to kind of position the manufacturer I was with a manufacturer that got this license as needing Ryan Mcquade. He was really talking up, you know, I'd hate to see this manufacturer come out and people really hate their rendition of Sonic because people are so behind Ryan Mcquade, you know, trying to get Ryan Mcquade. I guess, cause they said they were open to working in partnering with that other company that got the Sonic license to get Ryan to design this game. Okay. Old Dave Fix. This is kind of weird. It's very American Pinball. I feel it. It feels like it, to me, this is just my opinion, it feels to me like they just like they really just wanted to go ahead and do their whole American Dream kind of thing with Ryan and just make Sonic Spinball and now that they can't they're still trying to find a way to do it because that was the idea and then they don't have another idea with him yet. I think Dave Fix and AP Team need to take on the Disney license of Frozen and let it go! Move past it. Ryan McQuaid had a cool game there. He can do another cool game with another cool theme. Hopefully an intellectual property that everybody knows, but I think they'll be fine. They don't need to try to piggyback off of the company that ended up getting some. Here, let me help. Allow me to help. American Pinball. Dennis here. Let me help you. If you cannot get Sonic, just re-theme it. Just re-theme Ryan's game for your commercial version. Do Super Monkey Ball. There you go. Monkeys are in a ball. I was going to go with Dr. Robotnik's bean machine. No, just do. Just do SuperMonkey Ball. It's a known license, video game property. It's about ball rolling around everywhere. There you go. It's basically Sonic but with a monkey. Except that the gameplay is quite a bit different. But regardless, for pinball, maybe an option. So there you go. Consider doing that. I get the argument, but this again, I just I can't help but feel the parallels with Godzilla when Spooky went out and talked about and you remember how they told it? At least this is how it is in my headcanon. This may not be a hundred percent. No, we're gonna listeners. We're gonna relive it because I still thought it came across as petty. The reenactment. Yes, where The the spooky version of the story goes there in this meeting high-level meetings with Toho boardroom, too Oh, yeah, that's how I envision it mahogany table. No paint on these floors. This was that like high-end carpeting like Persian. Yeah heavy doors and Jody Dankberg 300 Spartan kicks that door open splinters fly off from You know, there's probably Bugs probably got a piece of wood in his shoulder and shrapnel Jody walks through Gary walks in behind him wearing the full on get everything but the helmet from Vader. Oh All of it is there smoke There's fog. There's fog. It's not healthy to breathe in on this much. The fog is billowing from the hallway behind you know and Gary just walks up and force throws a few thousand dollars on the table to PINBALL PINBALL PINBALL PINBALL PINBALL I had to because Spooky had already confirmed it. Sure. But the way that version went about is it sounded almost like they were on the floor of Comic Con. People are just walking up to each other, talking in booths and groups. It's all really, really open. And so Stern just kind of walked up while there was a discussion going on because they wanted to have a discussion with Toho. But regardless of how cool both of these versions of the story are, I think I told the Spooky one far better. The bottom line is, I think the vast majority of people engaged in this hobby are at this point downright glad that Stern got Godzilla. Yeah, that's what I said last week. Because it ended up turning out to be an incredible game. And maybe Spooky would have done an incredible game too, but I think a lot of people feel that Elwyn did a better job than what Spooky could have put out. Yeah, I don't think it was a stretch, yeah. And so, all I'm saying about all of that isn't to criticize Spooky or put Stern on a pedestal, it's simply that just because Sonic Spinball is a really fun homebrew game does not mean Sonic cannot somehow be even better. I completely agree. We just have to look past your preconceived notions and accept that a wholly new design might actually be even better, more awesome. We don't know. Until we see it, we do not know. And Stern's been cranking out some hits lately. I still think it's probably Stern that has it. But Dave says it's not Stern. So is this Steve Ritchie's new game? Oh, you know, he's been the designer known as Gotta Go Fast. Speed and flow. That's right. Now people are talking about, I mentioned last week that, man, Ritchie should get Top Gun. That'd be great. F-14. Now everybody, there's a thread on there about it. Yeah. It's a thing now. It is a thing. I think Steve would be- I get it. Dave Fix was all over the place in this interview. He was talking about the idea of AP manufacturing Deep Root games in the past. He was still, he said he's still talking to Deep Root lawyers about the IP to these, and they haven't been auctioned off. Right. What is going on? Actually, and I, on the last Eclectic Gamers, I talked a little bit about IP and not being sure. And I know Mr. Blueberry Johnson sent us an email. I haven't had a chance to I'm not sure if I'm allowed to fully go through it, but I think he was just noting that he could clarify some of the stuff Tony and I were discussing, which leads me to believe I was probably wrong on some of the things that usually people offer that it means Dennis is wrong, which is quite possible because there are a lot of twists and turns going on with all of that. Last that I remember seeing in the thread since that email, trying to catch up this morning, was it sounded like there had been no confirmation that the IPs have been sold yet. So that this could very well be so that lines up accurate day fix yeah yeah that mostly it's been the that discussions have been going on people have been saying there have been discussions about the IP but so far the sales have been like physical property stuff the X real enough Turner's wanting to buy those and well and that was where am I yeah my speculation with Tony was about his Turner logic like I guess they got the Raza prototypes and stuff so we had a discussion is is Turner logic trying to sell So, I'm not saying that I'm not going to be able to sell the prototypes of the Raza, like make them fully working and sell the prototypes, actually sell Raza's at some sort of scale or actually trying to establish an entire pinball company and basically do the first few deep root games. Because those are like the three things I could sort of see maybe they're angling. It'll never work, but yeah. Well, and part of our discussion was surely, in our minds, surely Turner Logic, an IT company, isn't going to set up a manufacturing line. No. I think it's a dumb idea for all parties. Yeah, it's possible, but it's dumb for all parties included. Other than Raza, I would agree, because Raza's done, but nothing else is. And it won't sell. Well, that's my concern with why I don't understand why it seems like a play's being made. That is why, like, Raza was never a really popular game. We know the pre-order numbers were not even 150 units. Yeah. I mean, it's not, it's just not well received, even in this market. And that was even during a time where everything is getting purchased. Hell, Legends of Valhalla sold 500 deluxe editions. I mean, come on. Now you got all of the shit smear that was Deep Root and then to think that that's going I'm not going to see the light of day. No, that's not going to happen. Yeah, I struggle with it. And I think it's too much of a stretch for a new company to be like, oh, let's buy from the new company because then I'll own a piece of the deep root weirdness. It's like, no, buying the prototype gets you that. This is different. This is like, but people don't buy Alien from Pinball Brothers because they want a piece of Highways failure. They buy it because it was a fairly well received game actually being made again. Absolutely. 100%. I think Fix was even talking about considering re-theming J-Pop's Houdini game. Remember that first Houdini? That's just a diorama. It doesn't even have completable shots. He claimed that there is one working, he don't know how working it is, but there's one put together with the Brian Andrews, Matt Andrews artwork, Houdini, that is completely different than Joe Balser's Houdini. cloudyствуcedesèt jog hoodooald qualcosa We've got Dennis Nordman, Ryan McQuaid. I don't understand why you would do this. And Ryan McQuaid's game is not looking like it's going to be out until after 2023 because Dave Ficks did say on that interview that they still plan on doing Orsler's game in 2023 next year and another Nordman game that he's on his first Whitewood on 2023 as well. And then we'll see that Nordman later this year. So, McQuaid's looking at 2024 at the earliest. So, are they only planning to do one game this year? Because Dave's been talking three. Well, of course he's talking three, but only one. Only one. And he did say that they have, they're building another line, so they potentially have three lines now in American Pinball. And I'm like, what? For what? Are they going to have more lines than they do games? Yeah, I don't.
    58:30
    Oh, he's just, I don't understand. I don't come from the manufacturing world. I haven't been in pinball since the 90s, so maybe it's not my place to understand. The JuiceIsLoose, Jonathan Juiceton, asked with this American Dream homebrew contest, in subsequent years are you going to include virtual pinball designs that can be made into physical games? Now, side note, 20 minutes later, Jonathan slipped that he himself was I was working on a virtual pin design and maybe had a little interest invested in there to be asking that question in general. I think it was, it's the most idiotic idea ever. Not because I don't like virtual pinball because it's night and day, it's apples and oranges. But of course Dave Fix is the man of the people and said, you know what? It's a really good idea and we may consider that next year. Why? I don't know. I completely respect virtual pinball. There are a lot of really incredible virtual pinball tables, but it is a big step up to be able to, uh, you can't, I don't, and maybe it's again, I might just be too dumb, Zach, but I don't know that you can just instantly glance and go, oh yeah, that that's going to work as a physical, like you'd have to invest time to figure out if you're, I just, it reminds me of Deep Root trying to make a space cadet into a physical version and they had to make changes. I, there are already so many I think people making physical homebrews that are probably interested in you. I've already said in the past, I'm not a big fan of this whole American dream thing contest. I don't, I don't like it, but, but there are plenty of actual physical homebrews to choose from that. Why would you even broaden it like this? I don't understand. I do not get it. I think if anything, Dave Fitch is just, he's trying to get that PR. He's trying to get that catch of people. What if, you know, American Pinball What If? I think that's a, I think it's very, in my opinion, I've got enough insight. When I hear stuff like this, I think it's very telling in a lot of ways. I won't go into it, but it's just very telling that, you know, you're talking about re-theming J-pop's game, talking about taking deep root entities, talking about making virtual pinball part of your American pinball. Let's not bullshit each other, people. One of the main reasons that they're doing this homebrew thing is because it makes you look good as a company, but you're also getting shit already done. Right? Look at Legends of Valhalla and Wrath of Olympus if that ever happens. A lot of this stuff's already done for you. They get rid of Josh Kugler. They're down one coder. They're gonna need all the help they can get. Yeah, I just, it's, to me it feels like not, you know, just not taking the initiative to commit on certain things and keeping it real. It's feckless. I find it completely feckless. Oh, wow. I like that term. Well, feckless. And to round out the information coming from Dave Fix and that PNPMP, he's going to continue to do street rollouts for these new games. That is, instead of getting them to dealers and getting them into homes, he wants to get them out on location first. He said something that I don't think he means, but it looks good. He said, look, you know, sometimes you get these games out and people purchase them without even be able to not even play them, but sometimes not even see them. Jeremy Pneumonic, Black Water Plate постоян Hour tool www.vine started.askcoinapps.com, a tissue dobr逼제 .html Imp dürfen dein Hey, surely. He knows people are smarter than that. Here's what I... Alright. From a... I guess from a PR perspective, being the company that... like, if he's trying to position American Pinball as a really pro-consumer company... He's trying to be Spooky Pinball at PR. I mean... This... this... what? No, Spooky doesn't... but Spooky doesn't do this. Spooky is all about the, let's... let's sell out all of the games before we even show you what the playfield looks like. Yes, yes. With respect to that, yeah. Then they make the weird decision to show you how bad it shoots on stream and then people are like, what am I stuck with this or can I, I mean, I don't, I look, I can criticize all sorts of stuff. I ain't no manufacturer though. So I'm not living it. The better here I am with a podcast. So here I'm going to say what I think anyway. So yeah, I just, I could see like, I don't think it gets too many sales. So I don't understand why we would do this. The, I like, I like the idea of yes, game on location. I think in a way other companies try and do I am happy to say we are now in a difficult time for gamers to get back on the field, and that is why I am here to discuss with you the same question as I did to some of the other players. I do not want to be a talking show, but I do want to talk about the game itself and then talk about its history and the game itself as well. You know Stern's policy quite well, about wanting those first pros to go to locations so that people can experience the game, and the thought is, I am sure, to ultimately move more units. However, the way you have described how he discussed it in the interview, he is positioning it not as, yeah, we are hoping we can increase sales and we can get the games to the locations first while we are still geared up on that line to make that game. Not, well, people need to try it first, we don't think it is good that people want to buy all our games. Concentration in between segmentsamo Run of time Gloria S I guess pinball on the news, starting to see a couple of those Fathom revisited mermaid editions leaving the factory. One, in fact, at the Northwest Pinball and Arcade show this past weekend. Any, did you see any pictures of that? I did, yes. What, what people are not talking about is a bad code, a bad build. That's the one thing I'm, I'm happy. I'm not hearing about anything negative regarding the product itself. The delays, the, yes. But about the product, people are kind of raving that. Well, and people are glad to see more than just the, you know, because the one came out and then everyone's like, well, it's just the one. And now there was another owner, I guess, who created a pin site account. Unboxing one. They did the unboxing. And so, you know, it's, they're, they're, they're coming out. They are coming out. Yeah. Short squirts, but they're coming. Sure. Sure. Are people going to be happy? I mean, I'm sure they're happier, but until everyone is made whole, of course, they'll always be those, those worries. But I think it still is at least a little bit of confidence. Speaking of spurtin and squirtin Chicago Gaming Gaming doing the same thing Cactus Canyon are rolling out the SE model and we thought you know there probably 500 or so that have been built of this SE They going to be transferring over to the LE line anytime now but per Knapp Arcade Butch Peel at the Northwest Conference seminar this last weekend said that they still waiting for parts for that topper Now remember viewers the topper goes on both the LE and the SE plus epsilon So I think you going to see more Essie's being built. Yeah, I think you're right. And now we can finally have the full rage against toppers that this hobby really needs. I think the topper is holding the game back. Oh, this is just done a sticker. Elvira style purge. So yeah, I think we're still a couple months out for that LE. Cause he can't be more. I'm starting to worry a little bit. Not, not that they're not going to ever make them, but just that it's going to be a while. It may be a while. Speaking of Multimorphic, if you're waiting for a Weird Al, it may be a while, because they're still struggling to get the parts, they're just struggling to get people to put them together. They're calling in Grandma, Aunt Theresa, and everybody else to come together, put on your gloves, sweetie, and put together these one-third pinball playfields. But someone on pin side did inquire to Jerry about the possibility of adding songs to their Weird Al. They said, you know, I like the songs, but where are the hits? We need some more hits. And they said, have you ever considered, Jerry, buying the license to use more of the songs and maybe do like a paid content, downloadable content for people interested? And he didn't shrug it off. He said, yeah, if there's a desire, then very much so they could look into that. What do you make of that? I mean, the system obviously would accommodate it. You could argue multimorphic System, the P3 system would accommodate DLC probably better than any other existing pinball platform that's out there. I could see. But, I, again, I'm, you know, my gut would be this is like a humoring statement. I don't. Because, well, and here's the thing. This isn't, you know, this isn't Metallica. This isn't a jukebox game. They customize the modes around the songs. That's the problem. It's not as simple as just getting the, in my view, if you want to keep the same quality that's currently in Weird Al, you can't just get new songs and throw them in. They'd have to make all new modes for those new songs, which yeah, with the paid model would accommodate, but I just, it's already selling so well. Why would you do it? And you know that a coder can't help but to add songs slash modes without at some point saying, if you do all of them though, there's another wizard mode that you can and only get to if you pay for those modes. Then you're gonna see a lot of people getting angry. I mean, it's definitely possible. It's not as simple as just adding the songs, though. It'd be a whole thing. It'd be a whole ordeal. But they could do it. I don't think they'd worry about it, though, until they were done with all this production, though. And when it comes down to it, Dennis and listeners, sometimes in life, the best things aren't always simple or quick. Sometimes they're complex, production-heavy. Pornographic Video quality, nature, and improvisational. And sometimes they're the biggest hit that the pinball industry has seen in media since its... I've heard Rumor Corner has surpassed this. Fake news! I'm sorry, I'm interrupting your intro. PINBALL MARKETTRENDS! It's okay. I am room retained. Are you? But to think. Pinball Market Trends doesn't have its own intro song. Does that hurt you? It's got a drum roll and an eagle, goddammit, that's all it needs. It does have an eagle, that is true. Mm-hmm. And it's got a screaming goat, too, watch. See? Got that, too. Are you gonna have a section of your pin barn where there will be goats? There might be a working ticker that goes around the ceiling. Such a good idea with the ticker! It's so pointless in that space, though. It's not pointless in that space, it makes it more data! Well, you know, you guys got to do something with all the windfall money you made during the pandemic. So I guess building a ticker is something you could do.
    70:08
    Training up this week as we just talked about it. How about that? It's Haggis' Fathom Revisited. Haggis, do you know how to let the air out of a mawn? Let it go. It's mermaid edition. The cord never bothered me anyway. Look, I'm training them up. I'm not saying that they're at the peak and they're even higher. I'm saying that they've been struggling a little bit with the storylines in the last month or two with the delays and what not and from where they're at they have trended up. I mean... Would you like to trend me like a worm? Think about an MSRP of 9k plus shipping. The evaluation right now on a Mermaid Edition new in a box is 11k plus. So I'd say that's a positive trend. Would you not? I mean, not if you're a buyer. Not if you're a buyer, that's right. Also trending up this week, numbers don't lie only reports facts and everything points to the direction of up when it comes to the video edition of the pinball show. It's trending up in a big way, isn't it? Which is why Dennis didn't want to do it this week. No, I don't have anything against it trending up. Oh, yeah, I mean the numbers were huge for episode 100 and we only reported the facts to my knowledge. Might get a little kickback and a little anger, hostility from people about the truth. But some people can't handle the truth. Isn't that right, Jack? I think 20% of those commenters said that they thought I was like 80. I didn't get that. I don't know. It's because my voice is so like reedy and nasally, I think it sounds old. Yeah, I don't get that either. Well, well, we've talked a long time. You're my favorite deputy. They just think about, get off my lawn there.
    72:03
    Get off my lawn or I'll crush you like a worm. Oh, no, that again. He's back. What is this? Look people, email the pinball network at gmail.com. Tell Dennis that you guys desperately want him back on video because one thing that we did not get to do Dennis that was I think the reason I wanted to go to video was because I really wanted to play around with a production that we could have done for Nordman. Oh my gosh. It almost just, maybe for those video things, wouldn't it not maybe work better to just like do a separate video show? See, you know logically it does because the risk that we run with video is that you'll start to want to lean onto the I'm not going to go into those visuals so much that it will undermine the audio only version of the show. It's inevitable. It happens with... this is why video shows that end up putting out audio podcasts usually give up because it ends up being a sucky experience. Yeah, but things evolve that people love. Relationships grow. No. Sometimes we got to see our kids off to college and we have to nestle up on the porch together and take a little swim. Sometimes the kids are dropouts. Well, sometimes they are. We got to pick them up at jail. We're gonna turn bad, I guess we'll turn bad with trending Down. Trending down this week is Stern Pinball's Deadpool Pro. There's no way. No. Hold up. No. What the hell? What's your justification here, Zach? Yeah, Zach, sounds made up. Alright, I'm going to my fiver, the station here. What's the deal with the whole Deadpool? Okay, so he's saying that Deadpool Pro is super high right now. That is true. But over the last week or so as more have been coming out and coming into the marketplace, I guess that is just the basics so far. Raza*) is joining me for Ts соб현 dil ب forefront Heroes филь Harley�ا That's just data people, that's numbers. I'm not here. I'm just here to report the facts. All's trending down this week is Lior's new Iron Maiden mod. Wait, the Oracle? The Oracle! I like Lior's mods. I love mods in general. And this one looks fantastic. Fiverr, statistician, are you a topper hater? Are you a mod hater? What's wrong? Uh, okay, so they said, sure it looks great, but bejesus that price. Oh, okay. I can agree with them there. It does look good. But $400 for a little figurine to be added into your... That's less than half a topper. Yeah, but it's not that powerful. And that's just a sticker with a coil. Eh. Size matters. The Yeah, it looks good but $389 only to have one of the most delayed mods Since Star Wars popper. Hey look, Leor has great work But when he announces something, you'll be lucky to see it in 8 to 12 months There's still people are waiting for the hobbit toppers still. So All I'm saying is The price, the weight, and his limiting, I'm limiting it to 500 pieces. I'm not gonna sell 500 pieces of a $400 Oracle. Well, but JJP did this for years. I'll have 5,000 LEs. Yeah, and only now did they get close to selling them with a hit. This is not the GNR hit that is gonna get them to 500 pieces. Calling the mod the Oracle, though, just makes me think of Matrix. I want that game. I want this mod to put a cookie in my mouth when I make the shot. Or would it be worth $400 then? If it came with one sleeve of cookies. You know it's bad when I say, a little bit too much for that. Honestly, I was surprised to hear you bring this one up. Yeah, because I went to buy it. And it throws us the pricing. Because he just released pictures of the Godzilla Premium LE Bridge, and that was under $200, and I went, bam, put in my purchase quick on that. I think it was limited to more pieces, which doesn't make sense. This limited to 500. Then I went to this and I was like, holy shit, that looks great too. Went to buy it and I saw 380 and I was like, meh. Even there's a limit for Ozaki. And I, eh, maybe I'll regret it later, but 500 doesn't feel limited for an old game like that and a piece that is not a must-have. People have already redone that crystal ball area. Meh, I don't know. It's just where I'm at on it. So that's your ups, that's your downs, you want to save a buck or two, jump on over to Deals of the Week! Buy, buy, buy! Deal of the Week this week can be found on Pinside, it's a Jersey Jack Pinball Wizard of Oz. It's not the yellow brick, so I'm not interested. Is it a Ruby Red? It's a Ruby Red! It is a Ruby Red, right out of San Francisco. Adol75, A-D-O-L-75 is selling a Wizard of Oz Ruby Red, first owner. Bought it in May 2018. The only issue I've seen on this game, the upper playfield was chipping in a certain area. Pob Dick muito rule, Está linda, I guess, well, I guess maybe my dad and I for my brother-in-law were working on a black knight. I guess technically we did probably fully strip that playfield and then put it all back together. Doesn't look like fun. No, it wasn't. It's terrible. But this one's not like an, it didn't affect the ball. It is small. For $12.80, I think if you can get this game for lower $12s, I think pick it up. That's a pretty good buy. Buy, buy, buy! Did someone bounty your radical yet? No, nobody bounty my radical. Why don't you just buy one and send it to Hep and just be done with it? You know, not a bad idea. But I don't even know if Hep could get some of this stuff. That's the problem. I need to call him. Does anybody know Chris really well? He's Chris, isn't he? Chris Hutchins? Reach out to him, see if he can redo a radical. Maybe I'll do that. Damn, Dennis, you might have just earned yourself a bounty. Mightn't find the game. I don't think it qualifies. I'm still looking for a Yellowbrick Road Waz. Can't find that either. Amanda Hamilton. No, she won't come off of it. I thought she's been, like, she's got polls and stuff up talking about, like, what should they get rid of and that's what's winning. Yeah. To make room for Toy Story or whatever she's looking for. She doesn't want to help her buddy out. I don't know what that is. Dennis, what do you think your next game is going to be that you're going to buy? Oh gosh, you know, I hadn't really thought about it. Are you thinking like, are you wanting like a new game? I just didn't know if you're going for a newer game you think, or do you think you'll get rid of an older one and keep an older one? I mean, yeah, there's... I have a whole list on Pinsight of stuff I've been watching for that I would unload an older game and probably bring in. None of it's super new, like Dialed In's been on the list for a while. Okay. That, uh, or, you know, I wouldn't mind, uh, uh, Getaway High Speed 2 is one that's been there. Oh, your favorite, Dracula, with all the exploits and broken code. You'll get so tired of that. I wouldn't mind the Dalton either. May a pinball tapes reference, maybe a Sinbad. Ooh. Well, we got part two that just came out of that. We'll talk about that. Part two. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just, just wondering. That's all. Just wondering. Yeah, new wise, like, you know, I had been debating a Jurassic Park for a while. C So for new stuff I really just need to see some of the actual stuff I've not seen yet. John Papadiuk, Black Water ore experimentation analyst Maybe you'd get the next JJP. C Maybe. C But, again I have not seen Toy Story because surely it's Toy Story. C Haven't seen any photos of it so I don't know yet. C And I'd have to play it first too. C But, if it's Pat Lawler so far I mean, my two favorite JJP games in order are Dialed in and then Wonka. So, very, Waka could have been so good if only they had done those multicolored pinballs. And as always, ladies and gentlemen, I'm just here to report the facts. I can't give away too much information because numbers never lie here on the pinball shows. Pinball Market Trends. All right, Dennis, let's close her down. Hmm. Good. So what's your personal address, social security number and telephone for people? Oh, I already gave that to the Nigerian Prince, so this will work out really well for me. How's that return coming? I'm sure it's gonna come any day now. I checked my bank. It only seems to be going down, but surely at some point that ACH is gonna hit. It's gonna fall. At some point it's gonna work. It's gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine. People can reach out to me. Hm? I was just gonna say, where can people reach you? Oh, well they can always reach me via email, eclecticgamerspodcast at gmail dot com. Also, pretty easy to go to facebook dot com slash eclecticgamerspodcast and shoot a message through the messenger app. Oh, look at you, expanding. Growing. Your podcast doesn't need a facebook messenger. Why can't you just leave it as it is? It's a gmail account. You wanna go video? Poor Zack, poor Zack, he just decides to totally change formats and is upset when everyone doesn't fully embrace it all the time. It was my- I was just like, let me do, since you did such a good impression of me, lemme, lemme do- I used to do straight down the middle, the Greg's never available. I ain't gotta do it. Let's just twist Dennis' arm and make the pinball show into a video show so it can be on camera like I always wanted. I love that I turned into Old Peter Pan from the Chippendales, the new movie. He's like a washed up con artist. Just Old Peter Pan. Got the stubble on his chin. I wouldn't spend my money on no Lear mod. Let it go. Let it go, guys. My evil plan of weaving gold on this one, viewer, I'm going to let you behind the curtains here, was I'm going to create such a dynamic and wonderful video pinball show that Dennis will have no choice but to be like, you know what, damn, that was good. I've got to do it. But in regular creasal fashion, we'll have to wait and see if we can warm up to him. Email The Pinball Network at gmail dot com. Let us know if you do like the video format or an ultimately distant give a shit what you're going to say, even if it's ninety eight to one ninety to two. There's one I decided, but I'd still be interested to hear what you guys have to say about it or we can we can do it quarterly.
    84:02
    Those are going to be big shows. They always are. With the by this is people don't know exactly. It's like, you know, I think we can get this down to forty five minutes. I'm like, Zach, do you know you? Hell no. You will never get it down to 45 minutes. I don't think you could do 45 minutes solo. If people knew how much time went into editing those two episodes. Oh my God. That's part of the reason why God, my God, poor Raymond Davidson is messaging in all the time like, why is the show late? Why is the show? That's I'm sure how he sounds. Why is the show late? Feature-length film ready! And Zach's like, you can't rush quality. I know. Give me a break. I'm an artist, damn it. I'm a rescue ranger. The tip and a flipping out pinball is a sponsor here and be on the be on the lookout for the flipping out ball whenever I'm not editing videos I might be able to put that all together and product showcase this week is a rush pro pre-owned go buy that well I've got a lot of I actually have a new inbox Avengers premium snag that or GNR new inbox or I've got a lot of pre-owned games we just got in a Star Wars pro comic we just got in another Tommy a Batman forever pre-owned not PINBALL TAPES EPISODE 3 SINBAD PART 2 LETTING Global SLIDEPząd novo undocumented TYPE With transforming With� We may get another, I don't know about free play, Triple Dream probably. There's nothing but the hits here at the Pinball Network. Yay! So for Dennis Creasel, I'm video version of Zack Many. And always remember folks, if you're not having fun anymore in a pinball tournament and you're not allowed to just resort to breakdance fighting, you gotta turn to the other staple. It's a walk off. And always practice safe pinball and this one goes out to Josh Sharp when it comes to competitive pinball, the IFPA, trying to keep people around for an entire weekend, much less a one-on-one match for four hours. Some people gots to poop. Let it go. Cole never bothered me anyway.
    87:08
    See you guys next week. Up. Hear you guys next week more like it. Who's your guest next week? I don't have one. Do a video one next week and your guest has like a 320p potato camera. I know. Standard definition, motherfucker. CRT.