Ep 164: Stern's King Kong Pinball with Keith Elwin

TL;DR

Keith Elwin reveals King Kong design philosophy, mechanics, and unlicensed creative freedom on release day.

Summary

Key Claims

• King Kong is unlicensed, based on the original book rather than movie versions, allowing creative freedom without third-party approval

  high confidence · Keith explains licensing approach: 'As long as we kind of stuck to the book and the characters, we didn't have to deal with anyone' and must follow guidelines of public domain book property to avoid infringement issues.

• Greg Ferris was recruited for one final project before retirement as part of 'Rodeo' project codename

  high confidence · Keith: 'I was really trying to get Greg Ferris to do this project. I knew he was retiring soon... He's like, Nah, nah, I'm good. And then, like two months after he retired, Sebastian, our then art director, reached out to him.'

• Kong's mouth was originally intended to move to eat the ball on playfield but was cut due to coil drive constraints

  high confidence · Keith: 'I really originally wanted Kong's mouth to move... if we have that, we have to pull out something that's cool... Kong does eat the ball, just not on the playfield.'

• A drop target in front of the cave was removed during development because it would 'catch air and jump over the flipper'

  high confidence · Keith: 'There was a drop target in front of the cave on the white early whitewoods. But actually, I deem that to be too annoying because it'd catch air and jump over the flipper.'

• George Gomez pushed for the helix spiral design on Godzilla's ramp despite budget concerns, saying Keith 'can't do Avengers and do a boring ramp game'

  high confidence · Keith: 'I was petrified of how over Godzilla was over budget. But George is like, No, you gotta, you can't do Avengers and do a boring ramp game like this.'

• Banana flippers were included in the Pro version as a mod option, previously used only once in AC/DC tournament

  high confidence · Keith: 'I've had these banana flippers for decades... put them once, put them in AC/DC as a mini tournament at my house. Everyone's like, Oh my God, this is so hard.'

• Kong features a figure-eight combo shot pattern between upper two flippers using the Cliff's Ramp and diverter mechanics

Notable Quotes

• “It was like, yeah, for the hell of it, I'm just going to put banana flippers in the Pro. And everyone went crazy.”

  Keith Elwin @ early — Explains the decision to include banana flippers as a novelty modifier that changes game difficulty and ball trajectory dramatically.

• “No, you gotta, you can't do Avengers and do a boring ramp game like this.”

  George Gomez (quoted by Keith) @ mid — Shows Gomez's push for ambitious design features on Godzilla despite budget constraints, establishing design philosophy across Elwin's games.

• “I really had to follow kind of a straight line of the story, but we can embellish it in our own ways.”

  Keith Elwin @ mid — Clarifies the constraints of using public domain source material while maintaining creative freedom from licensed IP approval processes.

• “You can do more with them... wire forms are just clean and neat... you can kind of see through them a little bit better than the plastic as well.”

  Keith Elwin @ mid — Explains design philosophy preferring wire forms over plastic ramps for visibility, flexibility, and aesthetic quality.

• “This flows extremely well, I'll say... this game, it's really fast.”

  Keith Elwin @ late — Addresses playfield flow design despite multiple stopping mechanisms (scoops, locks, buckets), contrasting with perception of stop-and-go gameplay.

• “We didn't want to spend a bunch of money because we weren't sure that mech was even going to work, much less survive.”

  Keith Elwin @ mid — References the Jaws shark-eating-ball mech prototype that was eventually cut, revealing iterative design and budget management.

• “If you just look at a picture of this game, you're not gonna have any idea where any of the shots go because it's really hard to figure it out.”

  Keith Elwin @ late — Acknowledges complexity of shot routing with multiple wire forms and diverters, creating learning curve for players.

Entities

Signals

• ?

  event_signal: Keith Elwin mentions planned streaming session to reveal additional playfield mechanics and behaviors not fully discussed in podcast

  medium · Keith: 'You guys will see tomorrow. We're gonna stream' in response to questions about river lane mechanics and ball routing.

• ?

  design_philosophy: Drop target in front of cave removed during whitewood testing phase because ball trajectory issue made feature 'too annoying' for playability

  high · Keith: 'There was a drop target in front of the cave on the white early whitewoods. But actually, I deem that to be too annoying because it'd catch air and jump over the flipper.'

• ?

  design_philosophy: Keith Elwin demonstrates consistent design approach across monster games: prioritizing wire form visibility/flexibility, maintaining playfield flow despite mechanical complexity, and preferring creative ramp pathways over plastic obstruction

  high · Multiple references to wire form design benefits, S-curve slowing mechanics, helix spirals, and comparison across Godzilla, Avengers, Jaws, and Kong.

• $

  market_signal: King Kong positioned as companion piece to Godzilla, completing 'King of Monsters' collection; both games released within similar timeframe establishing monster-themed design direction for Stern

  medium · Josh: 'Having King Kong and Godzilla, because anybody who has Godzilla is going to want the complete package' and referenced Kong positioning next to Godzilla physically.

• ?

  licensing_signal: Stern's strategic use of public domain source material (original King Kong book) to avoid licensed IP approval processes while maintaining narrative constraints to prevent infringement on derivative works