Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. We are on episode 85 with me, my co-captain, as always, Scott Larson. And Scott, it's another wonderful day, isn't it? It's another wonderful day. There's a lunar eclipse going on right now. Yeah, well, and Spider-Man is making an appearance at your house, it appears. Apparently, that's what happens when you have an 11-year-old with a Spider-Man mask. Let's talk about our sponsor before we get to our guest. Yeah, we got Flip N Out Pinball. So again, if you have that burning desire for that special pinball, go ahead and contact Zach and Nicole Meny. They will be able to find your heart's desire. You know, I actually, this is one of the random times when I don't have a lot of stuff pending. So, but, hey, hopefully there'll be a new machine coming out here soon and maybe there'll be something coming up, but... Maybe we'll talk about that. Yeah, so, anyway, yeah, contact Zach and Nicole and if you know what, that pinball machine isn't doing it for you, try to get an Escalera or maybe get a Big Buck Hunter for your home. So, check all their arcading options they have there. Well, you know, you know the Topper King, he's got a bunch of toppers in, so go look at the list on their website too, so... Yep. Well, you know, I met this gentleman, I don't know, it's been at least over a year ago, maybe more. And I watched his streams. I was very intrigued because I am a huge Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy fan. And I noticed Don't Panic Flip. And I'm like, that's got to be part of that, you know. And so I jumped on the stream and I meet George. And this guy's enthusiasm and streams are amazing. And so I've been wanting to have him on for a while now. And we've we've had the opportunity. So now we have George Fisher, how you doing, sir? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on. Well, that was so mellow. That was like NPR right there. Exactly. Well, yeah, I've got the mic all set up here. I feel like I'm ready to focus on just talking at this point. Yeah, so how do you feel about the conflict in the Middle East or Ukraine? Can you give me a... I got nothing. I will tell you, because I didn't tell you guys this before, because I want to be shocked for you for this. I feel grungy right now because I'm sitting in so much glitter. I don't know why my wife decided to use the pinball machines as her spot for like kids clothes. And it looks like a male entertainer has been all over my basement because there is glitter everywhere. You know what? It could be any entertainer, really. Maybe. Yeah, the, uh, when, when we first got married, um, there was someone above us who she liked to glam up and she would go and glitter bomb herself on her porch. And for some reason that we just kind of fly down. So my, my one year old would be crawling around in glitter all the time. I hope you guys are, uh, I hope you're, you're ready to have glitter just for the next week and a half. Pretty much everywhere. Yeah. You, you've heard Dimitri Martin talk about glitter. It's the herpes of craft supplies. Every time the sun comes out, flare up! Oh, there it is. Yep. Yes. Oh my goodness. Alright, enough about us and our weird glitter stuff. George, tell us about yourself. How long have you been in this hobby? And why the crap you're even here? And how much glitter do you use on a daily basis? Yes. So, I think I want to start with the best question first. The amount of glitter that I use on a daily basis. I only used a small amount today and it's usually a significant amount every other weekend while I've got my daughter here. So I'm relatively new in the scheme of things to pinball. It was about 2017. My ex at the time was looking to get a pinball machine. I had just purchased my first Multikade and was playing tons of Pac-Man and Galaga and Arkanoid and Super Breakout. Was absolutely loving it and wanted to get something comparable for her and her request was a pinball machine. I hated pinball. grew up feeling like pinball was just a waste of quarters uh would much rather put it in another machine where i feel like i could be good at something i didn't understand that there was rules that there was the concept of modes and progression in a game and even that there was simple things like trapping up and it not that that information wasn't there i just never obviously took the time to figure it out so did some research this was shortly after Ghostbusters came out, decided that Ghostbusters, theme-wise, was right in line with something we both liked, and Pinball Machine was going to be a really big investment. It wasn't something I wanted to fix, so I definitely wanted to grab something new. I ended up going to a local place called Pinball Jones, threw, I think, what, $5 into the quarter machine, and went through it very quickly on Ghostbusters. Not only is that game brutal, but I just was flipping the flippers around kind of thing. But two games away or a game right next to me, there was a guy named Levi who looked over and said, Hey, you know, there's more to it than just flipping the flippers and trying to keep it out from going straight down the middle or down an out lane. And I'm like, Oh, really? And he just walked me through. I'm playing on Medieval Madness. He just walked me through simple things like trapping up and the benefits of that versus aiming and where to aim. You know, shoot the flashing lights. That mantra I feel like we've all heard. And that was the beginning of the end. Shortly after that, purchased my first game. I fell in love and my ex was very frustrated at how much time I was spending in pinball. Ended up joining a league and actually Levi's dad and sister ended up kind of taking me under their wing and teaching me all of the games in league. That was a really, really good time. Still do league two to three times a year. And but also found that as I was playing, most of the local places closed or just my work schedule didn't enable me at the time because I had a. Trying to think of how old my daughter was at the time, but she was probably two or three years old in 2013, and this would have been 2017, so she was about three to four years old. And basically everybody was sleeping at that point by about 10 o'clock at night. So 10 to 1, I kind of had to myself and I'd play pinball. And I happened to spot it was straight down the middle actually on YouTube. At that point, I didn't really know about Twitch and saw Zach and Greg do, you know, I had watched their videos, but saw them do a live stream on YouTube and was able to chat with them. And I'm like, man, this is, this is fantastic. So, uh, I decided to that, uh, that's, that's what I wanted. I wanted to have the ability to, to talk to people about pinball, but not have to go out of the house to get it done and play my pinball games. And, uh, I, but at the same time, I'm also like the worst at multitasking. So I spent several months doing local recordings, um, and posting those to, to, to YouTube. Uh, afterwards, no editing at all initially. In fact, I rarely edit, uh, unless I'm doing any kind of fun videos, um, even now. And, uh, eventually, uh, while I was doing YouTube, um, and I was following some, some other gamers on YouTube, like MF Pallytime, uh, for Heroes of the Storm. And there was a few others and, um, Pallytime was talking about maybe making the switch over to Twitch. And I just didn't understand the concept of what made Twitch popular until I actually made the jump and started watching Heroes of the Storm over on Twitch and realized that I could actually engage with the streamers and it just offered up this whole other level of fun. That's how I found Jack Danger, Pinball Indesirables, Buffalo Pinball, to name a few that were all streaming at that time. And it was just, it was a lot of fun. So after several months of being on YouTube, decided to switch to Twitch and did that for several months before Al Anonymous came on my stream one time. And he said that he was on a mission to get everybody to switch over to 60 frames per second. And, uh, and, and for whatever reason, that was a, that was a fun trigger for me, like where, where I realized that it wasn't just in streaming about, it didn't just have to be about, you know, doing the bare minimum, uh, that, that there's a possibility for either upgrading your equipment or upgrading your knowledge of the equipment to, to, to put out something better. And suddenly it just something clicked in my brain. And I realized that what I really wanted to do was not just be able to engage with the community and learn more about pinball and do it with the pinball machines I have. But I wanted to go on location and build equipment that allowed me to set up quicker or more efficiently and still provide that fluid, beautiful play field that you see at the time very few streams with good audio. the absolute brain元etic So that's your stream or other streams could be. And another one was I was on a stream and I saw this, at the time I had no idea what it was, but it turns out it was Boca. Which is a very, the aperture rating on a lens is very small. So like a 1.8 as opposed to a 4.5 or a 5 or something like that. "- allows the focus to be specific while the background gets blurred out or whatever you're not focused on to be blurred out and I just fell in love and it's something I have abused horribly and yeah Manu like I know everyone else out there I know I abuse it but I love it uh saturation is another thing I like bright colors um and I feel like I've backed off there but but um but bokeh is still one of those things and and what got me was um I couldn't I couldn't figure out what it was like I couldn't figure out what I had to go out to the community and start asking questions, which drove the Discord, which then drove this want to make sure everyone had all of the information possible to stream at a quality level that was like bordering on cinematic. And, uh, and, and that's where we are today with the pinball community and, and just this ridiculous community of, of streamers who are constantly pushing the envelope on, on, on quality and what's possible on integrations. You got so many fun things like, uh, like iSkiDo who has, um, uh, the ability through redemptions to turn to like flip his flippers. So the right flips the left and the left flips his right, or you can invert them. Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi, and you know there's there's all kinds of lighting integrations now with software where people watching can actually trigger light shows in people's homes and then you've got other streamers like Frisco Pinball and uh and obviously Manu from MPT3K who are just pushing the boundaries of what of all the fun cool things and it and it goes so much more than that even it's not just like Like what's technically feasible, but it becomes kind of an art to figure out, to think of how to incorporate this engagement with the audience in different unique ways. Another great one is Surreal underscore seven, who has to this day, I think one of the greatest audience engagement redemptions, which is the lights dim and they and they flash on and off. And he's got another set of lights behind a door that flash on and get brighter and softer and brighter. And it starts the growl from Ghostbusters and then ultimately Sigourney Weaver's scream. And it's visual in that it's recreating the scene, but there's also sound and it's all timed beautifully. And then you have the lighting and it's all triggered from a single redemption. And it's a different level of immersion. And seeing that, I feel like, is just what's so awesome about the streaming hobby as a whole and really shows what the community can do when everybody puts their collective heads together to help each other, as opposed to just trying to only do your thing, right? Like, how do I do this and how do I do it in a way to teach other people or not even Are you still recording? John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr.., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. This is! There are many games where it's shoot the right ramp or shoot something. It's not really a full gamut of the machine. And a game that is a great tournament game has a couple combinations. One, there are multiple ways. It's not just shoot the left target. It's five different ways that you can possibly do it. And then depending on your situation, you can actually exploit that and the rules are balanced. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Kanyu, and David David Van Es, Ballywin, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Injury, and the We're having expert tournament players who are designing rule sets because they understand all that. Yes. They have played in a competitive setting and they certainly do not want a game that you're, you know, it's a combination shoot right, shoot left, shoot scoop, cash out. The other thing I've noticed in spending a little bit more time with competitive players to me is that I'm in software and I spend time, like we were talking about earlier, There are some interesting personalities in pinball. Well, even more so, I feel like multiplied a few times in the software industry. There are some really interesting people out there. You'll find the way that sometimes software gets developed or on the flip side of things, when you're doing security and penetration testing, there's a certain mindset that has to And I think that's a really good question. I think it has to do with kind of trying to figure out where the weaknesses in software are. And occasionally, you come across that. And what I've seen, I think consistently from all of the really high competitive players I've spoke to is this want to find where those weaknesses are in existing code. And find out where there's a break and where somebody didn't program something appropriately. Checking when there's an increasing, let's say jackpot in some sort of a situation with, let's say, Game of Thrones. If you get into a particular multiball and you get into a progression where it adds 10 million for every jackpot you had completed previously, but you find out that the code left something open and never put a cap on it, so you can continue doing that and you throw a multiplier on top of it and suddenly you're scoring a billion or two or three billion points a shot. It's that kind of hacking, I feel like for lack of a better term, that I've found in some of these discussions. And a really cool one that came up recently, I don't remember the tournament, but there was a competitive player who took a known bug in Johnny Mnemonic, where when you grab the ball, you can move it over and place it on the pad. And there's a there's a three by three pad that allows you to do things. But if instead you just drop the ball back on the on the table, it then shoots it back up and gives you 40 million points. Oh, some number of points. You just constantly do that over and over again. And it does require hitting some of the buttons on the table. And, you know, you've got several billion points if you do it enough times enough to. I think a lot of competitive players isn't the glove disabled because of that exploit. I'm not sure if it was because of that specific exploit, but I do think they're often disabled. Well, and I love that game. If I could get another Johnny back. It's so fun to get the times three or whatever it is once you get the three balls, and then apply it to the spinner, and then just start hitting the spinner for all those points. Oh, it feels so good. I don't know, I like those exploits. I mean, look at Shadow. You know, they found out a competitive exploit years ago where you just shoot the left orbit and then the inner loop over and over and over and there was never a cap put on that scoring and it just excels. If you're just hitting it over and over and over, I mean, jackpots are worth what, like 20 million and all of a sudden you're getting like 300 million a shot? Because it never caps out. So just like yeah, duh, it's awesome If you don't know I'm talking about check out Bowen Kerin's tutorial of shadow he goes through three different strategies of or competitive strategies of how to play shadow and the last one is that the outer orbit to the inner loop and it's Hilarious because he just starts he's cracking up at how many points are coming out of this game He's like this is obvious if you can do this. This is obviously the way to play shadow. So With Johnny Demonic, I haven't spent a lot of time playing it I'm a fan of the movie, but I saw the movie at the theater when it came out. And there was that heroin-addicted porpoise that hacks. With Ice Cube working with the porpoise who is fed heroin to keep them focused on hacking computer systems, how do you beat that in terms of theme? Do you remember the story with George Gomez on that one? They watched, he watched the movie, he walked out of the movie theater, got on the phone, he's like, can we change the uh, the license? Yeah, can we get out of this? Can we get out of this? Because it was terrible. Yeah. But they signed an agreement saying they'd do the, do it without even seeing the movie, so they just kind of like, got general information what was going to be in the movie, and so they're like, they just started putting in the game, and then they got to watch and he's like, oh, we should have said no. Yeah, no, it was a screening, it was a, it was a screening, he actually flew out there to see it, yeah. Is that what it was? Yeah. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Larry K. Sheats Jr., Text, We're going to be talking about the project we've been working on. I want to give another hint right now. George, we talked about a little bit about this in Texas. And once I finally was like, yes, I'm doing this, you were one of the first people I called. And I pitched you the idea. And you were super on board. And then, yeah, I was so stoked. You know, I after talking to you at Texas, I wasn't too concerned. But I don't want to say I know, we're slowly I'm really trickling out the information. I'm beaming with excitement because of what we're doing. I don't know. What sold you on the concept? If we can tease it without giving it away. And be as vague as possible. Sure. You might have to edit some of this. You know how Tom Holland gets made fun of for giving stuff away all the time about Marvel? Yes. I'm the person who called the birthday boy directly because I realized he was left out of the email about his birthday party, but I didn't connect the two dots. I'm like, oh my God, how did we miss Mike? Let me call Mike and be like, oh my God, there's a big party happening. Oh, it's your surprise birthday party. I'm hanging up. So, um, I, uh, when, wow, trying to be super vague here, um, A, getting an opportunity to do anything, uh, with Scott and Josh, I'm like, I'm, I'm in. That's number one. Um, and number two, uh, once you mentioned, um, what it would be benefiting, uh, I I've had a good amount of experience, uh, recently and, uh, just over the past couple of years and, uh, and anything I can do, I feel like to help out. Specifically with that, I would love to help out with. Perfect. Love it. That's good and vague enough. That's pretty good. Absolutely. The birthday boy still doesn't know about the surprise party. Not yet. Not yet. Well, it's funny too, because I've been kind of going crazy with this, and Scott had left on vacation. He's been gone for what, 10 days or something? Yeah. I actually planned a Antonio Cruz with my family two and a half years ago, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr.., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. I'm so excited. You don't even know. All right, we'll move on. But yeah, so. Okay, well, I want to talk to you a little bit about streaming. And okay, you brought this up before, but I want to talk about it now. You actually had some equipment stolen from you. Yeah, what the crap? And so, like, okay, one, I would have no idea what equipment I would need to stream. That's one thing. But two, to have your setup basically stolen from you when you're trying to stream. Wow. Okay. So lead us through that. Tell us what happened. So it was just after Texas Pinball Festival ended, I decided to go out and go see a movie just down the street from TPF. There was a Cinemark like a big Cinemark just down the street and I so I have a Jeep Gladiator and I have had all of my equipment in the bed of the truck not locked up except for the really expensive stuff which I put into the cab and locked it up And that was my streaming camera, as MPT3K would say, the talent cam, my playfield cam, the second playfield cam. I had an Edelkrone motorized tripod and movement system that allowed you to tilt pan and interpolate between two different positions. You guys, I think you guys saw that at, uh, at TPF and Expo. And, uh, and all of that, along with my, with my personal laptop, uh, all got, all got taken, uh, from inside the cab of the vehicle. Wow. Um, but nothing in the bed got taken, which is interesting because I, I had, uh, I had a, uh, a Magic the Gathering cube that I had brought hoping to, uh, to do some, uh, some, some, uh, magic. Um, and if you guys are familiar with Magic the Gathering, but, uh, you can do, um, uh, you can do a draft, right? So I put together a cube of like 540 of the greatest magic cards of all time. And, uh, and I've got maybe about, it's probably about a hundred games played on it. And we recorded all the statistics of every single game and, uh, and changed the cards in, in the cube over roughly two years time. Steve Sm globeaisse, J. Ron 에 엄마 J Оп operators I'm in the majority of my streaming gear from Cinemark just down the street, like seriously a short walk away from TPF. Wow. And that sucks. Yes. Whew. So how long did it take you to get all that stuff back? Have you been able to restock yet? So I've got a new Playfield camera, which is, that one is, it was an a6400 from Sony I'm a big fan of the A6500, thinking that that's going to be my more standard, like, bring with me style camera for, for like kid photo shoots and stuff, which I had packed up with me all this weekend while I was doing, um, um, like outside walking stuff with, um, with my kid and then a couple of the neighbor kids and just taking pictures all over the place, throw them up on Dropbox and send them to all the parents. So that was a minor upgrade. I went from the a6400 to the a6500 and grabbed a couple of lenses. I was able to grab those off of Craigslist close by and now is not the time to buy any kind of, I feel like, electronic devices, be it laptops or cameras. Everything is really expensive. The player cam, on the other hand, I, it was never justified the first time through, the amount of money I feel like I spent and the style of equipment I went with, which was the Sony FX3, which is a cinema style camera that I had for the player cam. And that wasn't just for streaming. I'm working on a web series with my daughter about her stuffed animal. And I just, I like filming stuff. I don't know if you guys have ever seen the silly commercials we put together for TPN about pudding and about the, that it's a, okay, there's the pudding one. There's the one where like TPN is a drug that can make you feel better. And there was one about... Positive drugs kids, like, like Smurfberries. Sorry, yeah, not air style drugs, but like, like, like Prozac or something like that. And there was two others we did over time that were a lot of fun, and I just really enjoyed doing that. So I kind of wanted to start heading that direction of doing a lot more, maybe film things, but keep it kind of silly and fun and enjoyable. And my daughter loves the editing portion of things, like as we give characters superpowers using some really easy tools in Adobe Premiere, she just loves every second of it. So it's a great way for us to hang out and have a good time. Um, and, uh, so, but that camera was fantastic. And the lenses I picked up for that camera, which also were all taken, unfortunately, um, were just really, yeah, heartbreaking. Uh, especially knowing that in afterwards insurance won't pay for any of it. Okay, so... Because you make money off of Twitch. Exactly. Yes. You know what you should have done? You should have said that you make them for adult recreational videos in your home to share with your friends. Okay, you need to be really careful with that term. Just letting you know, just... There's a red line there. I don't make any money off this. We just share it amongst friends, you know? Wow, wrong. Okay, so I hope writing is is a hobby. Okay, sure. Yeah, sure. Actually, you know, I'm just gonna move on. So if I were to get into streaming, okay, so I know nothing about streaming. And this is a role playing scenario. And the good news is, I literally know nothing about streaming. And you are an expert on streaming. What would you tell me? Hey, this is what you're doing. And that's what you need to do. This is your entry level into getting streaming go. So for equipment, you want to start out with whatever you have available. The difficulty in streaming, and this is something I've come across so many times with new streamers, is that they want cinema-style quality right away. And they want to dump a lot of money into it before they get started. But the problem with streaming, honestly, is kind of consistency. So when you start streaming, you're likely not going to get many people watching. And you might do it for several months and it feels, it can feel awful when you're out there and you maybe have one or two viewers for several months. And occasionally you get a raid and it feels fantastic and you get chat going like there's, especially when you're doing it solo without people being there with you. It can be difficult. If you don't have the energy from chat, kind of helping drive things along, which is something you see so easy, that seems so easy to come by when you're watching other streamers like Jack or like Manu from MPT3K or any of these other streamers that have, you know, 60 to 100 people. And they just, they seem so energized every time they get on stream and they're talking with people. There's lots of back and forth. They're playing, they're stopping. So it takes a while to get to that point and you have to make sure that you enjoy doing it for the sake of streaming first. And then afterwards you can worry about quality and you can worry about what technology can you pick up to make things easier, like a stream deck or maybe better cameras if you want to increase your quality. So that is step one. The CX405 is an excellent camera that we have done so many videos on comparing the CX405 by Sony alongside the A6400 or an A6000 or the FX3 even, and showing how it's actually kind of difficult sometimes to tell the difference in camera quality between something which is less than $100, be it the CX405, and something which is, you know, $500, which is less than $100. So yeah, finding that a minimum amount of equipment to do it just well enough to not have your quality send people away, I think is a really, really good starting point. And then after that, finding a spot, and building a schedule, and then being consistent for a certain amount of time seems like the best way to get going. And, uh, and finally getting to a place where you're, you're happy streaming because it's something you enjoy doing. Cause there's no, there's no short of Jack and now, um, Karl IE Pinball just got, uh, his Twitch partnership and, uh, there's Buffalo Pinball. I think that's, that's pretty much it on the, the pinball line of, of partners on, on Twitch. And the likelihood of, of anybody else who focuses on, on pinball really hitting that, if they're just going to focus on pinball is, is minimal. All of these are great things to do. So make sure you're doing it for because it makes you happy and you enjoy it. I enjoy streaming, but I have a hard time of finding a happy medium of when the kids aren't in the house versus you know what I'm saying? Because like with you, you've picked what usually on about 10 p.m. Mountain Easter time. So that's 12 Eastern, nine o'clock California time. And I assume you do that because it's a little more quiet in the house. You're kind of away from the family and whatnot. That's kind of what I would have to do, but the problem is my basement shares the wall with my son's bedroom. And so that's the problem. I either have kids running around screaming or I've got to be dead silent for the bedtime, right? Right. And so that's why I have a hard time with consistency on that part. And I started out with, I'm like, I have extra cell phones in my house because apparently you never get rid of your old one. You just buy a new one and the old one goes in the drawer. A lot of my Androids have apps that you can use to link to your computer. And so I just use all my old phones for my Playfield camera, my player camera, all that stuff. I haven't spent a dime on streaming. I need a new laptop anyway. So it's like, well, I bought the laptop. Rayday gave me the specs on which one he uses. It's a gaming laptop, which I'm all for gaming, so why not? And I felt like it was a good investment too. And so really, I'm not even out money because I needed a laptop anyway. So that's my recommendation. Like George was saying, find kind of the minimal place. But most where you are now we yeah we're like in the Pizza! Press, press, press, press. Get 40 slaps now. Okay, I know we'll get to this at the end too, but George, if they want to catch you streaming, when can they do that? So that is three nights a week, Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. Monday and Tuesday on DontPanicFlip.com from 10 o'clock PM until roughly 12 o'clock AM Mountain Time. And Thursday is 10 o'clock PM to 12 o'clock AM, but on the Pinball Network's channels, Which would be twitch.tv slash pinball network, facebook.com slash the pinball network, and youtube.com slash the pinball network. Nice. And I highly recommend it. You know, I know Zach Meny, he gave you kind of some accolades a couple months ago for your transitions and stuff. And I never really noticed them, but they're so high quality. I remember one stream where you were playing and you're like, oh, we need to change the record. And like, it shuffled to the record player really well. You had a camera just for the record player. It's like, we're going to put on the next album, whatever it was. You put it on and it shot right back to you playing pinball. I was like, that's like legit, like awesome stuff. Like, I don't know. It was pretty cool. That was about that same time I had, we were getting DJs. Actually, there was an interesting time period where DJ Rouchet and Manu and I feel like there was a couple of other streamers who had built up some fun relationships with DJs. And there was this huge focus on not only playing music, but having live DJs DJ pinball streams. And there was a good like three to six month period where that was happening. And I love specifically the one you're talking about was I was in a multiball and we needed to flip the record and I had just initiated multiball. I think it was on Stranger Things and I hit the scene swap button to that, ran over while the multiball was still running and it was just initiated. So I still have a bunch of ball save flipped over the record and ran back and was able to swap over the scene using just the stream deck to switch between them. It was great. Nice. It was awesome. What were you going to... I cut you off, Scott. Oh, no, no, it's fine. I would... Well, so I guess I was kind of wondering how DJ and pinball... That sounds fun as like a party atmosphere, but if you're actually trying to hear the sounds of the game, you're trying to do the call outs, you're actually trying to explain to people what's going on. How do you balance that? That is a really good question. The call outs of the game are one thing, and you can direct pull audio from most pinball games, especially Stern's. It's really easy. They have kits, and you can get a 3.5 millimeter jack and run it directly into something like a Hey! Like, I streamed Rush with the music on, I think, for one session. And since then, I don't think I've played with the music on. Oh boy, atta boy. I'm just kidding. You know, I'm gonna kick you guys both out, and I'm gonna start Loser Kid II Pinball. That's it. Done. Is that like coast to coast or head to head, Loser Kid II pinball? II pinball, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Oh, considering when Josh signed up for Stern Insider, he just jumped on the Loser Kid II. So I basically had to settle for Loser Kid 2. So to bring it back around then, Scott, to what you were asking about, how do you focus on the game? Like there's A, when I have that audio coming in, I have the ability to adjust the volume. And sometimes I'll bring down that incoming audio so that way I can walk through something if necessary. But for the most part, it's exactly like you said, it's more of a party atmosphere. I've got my volume turned up. I've got the game volume turned down. There's some great music in the background that honestly is just fun. And we, I try to put as much focus on the DJ or on that third party as possible. And the chat usually talks about what's happening, trying to zoom in and actually see the, how the, someone's hands are moving or the buttons that they're pressing, right? Because that's, it's great. I want to show off pinball and man, I hope I'm playing well enough to justify people being in, but a huge part of pinball, So, when you're not a Raymond Davidson or an Escher, is not the quality of gameplay, but maybe the enjoyability of hanging out with either the streamer and or the community that streamer has. Don't let George fool you. He's a good player too. I mean, when I was watching you play Jurassic Park, when you can get to, was it King of the Island multiball? Was it with the T-Rex and the Spinosaurus or whatever that is? We're there. Let's do this again. Again, you're doing it for like a second time on stream tonight. Like, I have a hard time getting to it just as is, you know? Hey, I'm just lucky if I get past the second dinosaur. So, and that's going to left or right, not actually trying to get the big ways. Jurassic Park is one of those amazing games, though. I still to this day feel like I am disappointed that I got rid of my first Jurassic Park because it played perfectly. I ordered another Jurassic Park from California, had it shipped out, and the playfields warped. Oh. Makes it particularly difficult because the outlanes just act like magnets for the ball as it sends it over there. But when Escher comes over and plays, he can beat the game easy peasy every single time. So it can't be that difficult. I'm just, I make it look really difficult, I think. Gotcha. Yeah. Isn't Escher like top 10 in the world? He's number two right now. See, I... Yeah, that's like saying it can't be that hard because Ray Day can do it. Right. See, and you were actually watching... So we were supposed to record a couple nights ago and I was packing up my Jurassic Park Pro, and I got myself a Whitewater. And you're like, no, where's your... Why? Where's it going? I've always wanted Whitewater. I'm so ecstatic. You don't even know. I love this game. It's such a good game. I still feel that Whitewater will definitely be part of the remakes. You think? I think so. I hope so. If it gets an updated code set of- I think it'll have to get an updated code, but that layout, the fun factor is still way up there. And the flow is good. There's a good mix between flow and stop with it, depending on how you're playing it. But that Insanity Fall shot, even my son Carter, we were playing it today, he's like, that shot feels so good. It's so cool coming down those rapids. Yeah, it hits the glass every time. Always scares me. I love it. It's the O shot on Jurassic Park. And the flow on Jurassic Park is insane. And I can't not say it. Jurassic Park is, in my opinion, the perfect game. It's immersion at multiple levels in the game. It's not just the toy, which moves left and right, right? The Jeep, For those of you who are new to the game, you can play the game in the playfields. You can move left and right on the playfield based on the position of the jeep. And then add in the LCD, which has you in first-person perspective driving a jeep. To me, to this day, still combo the fact that that game is just so much fun to shoot and to play, And the rule set, while it took a hump like getting over in order to figure out exactly how to play it, to this day it's it I just understand it. It makes entirely too much sense as to how to play it. And then this crazy thematic immersion throughout the play field, the the toys and the LCD. I am I'm I struggle with with ever giving getting rid of it again unless it's to upgrade to an LE. Well, you could upgrade to an LE. There are three for sale right now. It all starts at five o'clock Tough Cop ec I'm gonna spin right huh You see that Ken Jenkins was here before us earlier today here, here, here, here, Godzilla, for me, is the perfect package. Okay, I do have a question for you guys, because I was just noticing this the other day when I was playing Godzilla. My left stand up target is migrating to the left, like right, the ones next to the building. Are any of yours doing that? Your Tesla shot? No, it's... Yeah, it's the power line shot. Sorry. It will give you Tesla strike once you hit both the power line shots. Yeah, it's to each shot of the building. I like how George got up just to go look. He's inside of the building. Yeah, you didn't see it. This is a visual, but yeah. George got up and he's like, I'm gonna go look at my playfield. I think I'm gonna look at mine while you align. Is yours doing that? No, no. They're perfectly aligned right now. Yeah, because mine is probably just because it's a brick fest for me. But on the left side, it's starting to migrate where I'm like, oh, that shot's getting a little more challenging. I think I may have to get like one of those that the pin side mods that hold those stand up targets straight up and down. Mine's migrating a little bit, but not bad. It's not terrible, but it's enough that I was like, oh, that's that's going to be an issue. The only complaint I have and I haven't found anyone that's fixed it yet. Me, you guys know when you the plunger for some odd reason, it like rattles there. Yes. Um, no, mine does too. However, it makes the, the super duper skill shot easier to make. Cause I can, I, I'm able to drop it right behind the flipper and then hit the scoop. See, I haven't been able to do that yet. Cause I can't get it to go up around behind the upper flipper because it goes into that lane and just rattles around and then drops down. Oh, no, like it's, I've noticed for some reason, like it depends on how smooth I'm trying to launch it. But if I, if I, if I pull it all the way back and then just let up like a millimeter or two, then I can typically get the, uh, the super great skill shot. Okay. I'll have to try that. So George is like, sure. Yeah. Uh huh. Yeah. He's like, whatever. I don't care. Okay. I, I know it's hard to see, but I just barely sent you the picture and you can see that it's barely starting to migrate to the left and it looks a lot less. The Wally Winka Show, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. I didn't say that I was good at shooting, I just said I hit it all the time. Oh. You know, the one that migrates the most there is the, it's not a stand up, it is kind of a stand up, but in, for Deadpool, the snicked shot. Oh yeah. Without, if it doesn't have the upgraded backing that stops it from floating, like that will move throughout the game to where you have to adjust on the fly where that shot is. Oh, I'm going to have to go look at my Deadpool and see if the Snicked is upgraded. That's what I need to do is I need to get Deadpool. Or is that an aftermarket, George? Aftermarket. Oh, yeah. So you'll need to send me a link on that because eventually I'll have to, when I get better at that shot. I will send you a link. It is the first, because I've owned Deadpool twice now and it was the first upgrade I did minutes after solidifying the deal on the second time I purchased it. Yeah, and actually I've heard Chuck said the same thing about Rush and that getting the stand-up targets from migrating. Like he said, he said it becomes a big deal. Like I haven't put as much time, I need to troubleshoot mine still a little bit. The side ramp is still giving me an error and I think it's just probably a modification or just a, not a mod, but an adjustment that will keep it. I'm not sure if anyone else is having this problem, but it sounds like the Vuck in the back left is firing independently just when I'm playing around. So it's become kind of annoying, which is sad because I haven't played Rush because I haven't had time to actually fix it. What's funny is I found that Rush is so polarizing. Now it's been out there in the wild, people are trying to get their hands on it. Obo is, We非b Greek nat 여기 osством da The game almost as polarizing as the band because you either love them or hate them I guess there is middle ground people too I middle ground I don mind listening to them but if I might first go to them If there one thing I could change is I hate double inlanes I would definitely just drop it and have a single in lane on both sides but that just because I a crappy player So I loved X-Men and it feels the layout feels very similar to X-Men. It is very similar. Yeah. So I'm really happy with the game so far. I like the aesthetics of it. Short of the center, like where the three different three different band members are. I really. You can put a red star over that. Come on, give the 2112 decal and you can slap it on there. If it's right on in the middle of the playfield. Sure. Wow. OK, I like it. Oh, my goodness. All right. Well, do we have any more questions about streaming or whatnot? Scott, before we move on to we have just a couple of topics We have a lot of things we want to cover before wrapping up. Okay, no, I think we're good. But that's a good resource if you want to check out George. We'll again include the links at the end. And you also have some pretty cool swag, I've noticed. Yes. So how can they get the swag? Before we move on to the topics, I want to know more about swag. Yeah, so that's on silverballswag.com. There's a page there for Don't Panic Flip. I don't know the exact link. I'm probably like silverballswag.com something slash don't panic flip for that. Also, I and something I wanted to go under pinball promoters. That's where there you go. It's third one on the left. Awesome. Also, for for videos or if you're if you're hoping to get into into streaming, there's a few really good places to go. The place I started off with was was Jack Danger's Web page. That's still great. I think for getting started even today. And then outside of that, there's some videos that MPT3K and I have done that walk you through, like initially how to do it low budget and then comparisons between higher end equipment. And you can check those out on MPT3K's YouTube. And then outside of that, there's also the Pinball Community Discord, and that's a public Discord just called the Pinball Community. There's a stream tech channel that is hit probably 20 or 30 times a day with either new streamers or existing streamers. Any and all questions are typically answered there with references all over the place. Okay, I have a follow up question. Okay, you have a pangolin shirt? Yes, I do. Okay, what? A pangolin? A pangolin. So kind of like a liger? John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr.., Digital No, it's actually an endangered species. It looks like a, I don't know, it kind of looks like a hedgehog with a long tail. Okay. I mean, it's... Ragged scales. Yeah, it's an endangered species that for some reason people in China are eating because they think it's delicious or something, but... Yeah, eating and they... and also it's one of the most popular endangered species animals that people think they actually want to keep. There's... if you've ever heard of You can check out savethepangolins.com. There's a charity that I and my daughter donate to every year. We have a couple of t-shirts that we get yearly from them. I was going to say, I've got your super sweet whale in brick shirt. Is that one you can only earn or can you buy that through Silver Ball Swag? No, you can only earn it by watching the streams. You have to redeem using points. And that is the Don't Panic Brick shirt, which is a reference to actually this tattoo, which is kind of hard for you guys to see here. Oh, wow. But it's a moment in Hitchhiker's Guide where two missiles are using the impossibility engine turned into a bowl of petunias and a whale. And there's an amazing conversation that happens where the whale is trying to figure out life Just before it hits the ground at terminal velocity and the bowl of petunias says, oh no, not again. Also, just before hitting the ground. It's one of my favorite moments in literature and that shirt is a reference to that favorite moment. And that's in the first book, right? I think it's in the first book, yeah. I even love the narrator's like, and if we understood why the petunias said that, we'd have a better understanding of life or something like that. Yes, exactly, exactly. I will say that when I turned 42, I did say, ask me anything now, I am the answer to everything. Yes. Life, the universe, and everything. Yep. Mm-hmm . Do you know why it's actually 42? No. So in computer coding, I was told that 42 can be anything you want it to be. I know it's like zeros and ones, but when they attach certain codes to certain things, I guess 42, when you use that in code, it actually is whatever you need it to be. I don't know how that works. I'm like, you'll have to Google it, but I'm pretty for sure, because someone was telling me about that. I was like, yeah, I don't know computer software that well. So maybe George can confirm for us. Well, Reddit. Reddit obviously has something on it. Oh, Reddit's the go-to. Yeah. If it's there, it's gospel. Legit. Oh, it's, I hope I'm not too late, but the sentence, it's the answer to life, the universe and everything has 42 letters. Oh, interesting. So thank you Reddit, from hashtag deleted. Whatever that is. So maybe the account got deleted. Yeah. There are... It was too profound. They had to get rid of them. There are also 42 dots on a pair of dice. Wow, all these things I did not know. You know what's interesting? Once you start seeing number 42, you see it everywhere. I was at Disneyland and we were walking to the Who Framed Roger Rabbit ride and one of the doors that's in the waiting line is 42. They put 42 in the movies and stuff like that. You'll see 42 everywhere. Once you... It's kind of like pin spotting. There needs to be a 42 spotting. You know how the Facebook group has pin spotting so every time they see a pinball machine in a movie or a TV show, they always clip it and put it there? Yeah, there needs to be a 42. Wouldn't surprise me on the software side that if 42 is somehow usable somewhere, it's in response to Douglas Adams' book. Right. It's probably linked to that as opposed to came first, right? Yeah. There's so many nerd references throughout, like HTML. Let's say there's a specification where you can have a 404 page not found. That error code is a 404 and it's built into HTML as like an agreed upon, if you get a 404, this is what it means. One of them is 418, if I remember correctly, which is I'm a teapot. I'm not making that up. That is a legitimate error code and the reasoning behind, I think, an HTML status code 418 is I'm a teapot. Nice. So you'll find those kind of hidden gems throughout software all over the place. Well, I didn't realize that Douglas Adams wrote that book years ago, like in the late 70s, did he? Oh yeah, it was a long time ago. I didn't realize it's held up so well to even to nowadays. It just I know. I in fairness, I have listened to the first book. I don't read. I listen to books. I've gotten halfway through the second book, and for some reason I just stalled out. So I need to revisit it and and push through. But the first book was hilarious. First book is great. The first book is great. I've read it so many times. I've read the second book twice, and there's five books, I think, in that series. I never I never finished them. I couldn't I couldn't. They seem to kind of wander, don't they? Yeah. But the first book's great. So, you know, they need to, okay, speaking of random books that have a big following, we need a Good Omens pinball machine. Oh my God. Neil Gaiman did a fantastic, fantastic book. Make that happen. As long as it's not based on the television show. No, the audio, actually, I thought the television show was okay, but the audio book was hilarious. And I still listen to it about every year. Awesome. Check that one out. I actually have never listened to Good Omens or read it. Oh my, anything honestly by Neil Gaiman. Like you could do, never, you could just do a Neil Gaiman pin and do like Coraline, Neverwhere, uh, Sandman. There would be, there would be a line out the door for Sandman. Yes. There's a big either movie or television show related to Sandman coming out. Well, there's also an audio book, uh, from Audible. So. Nice. Oh, I remember I was going to say, did you know that the very last book in the, what, what do they call it? The trilogy of five books for Hitchhikers actually was not written or finished by Douglas McAdams because he passed away. Did he die? Yeah, he passed away. And so it's kind of like a collaborative effort across a couple of authors. Did you just make him Scottish, by the way? Is he Douglas McAdams now? Yeah, he's Douglas McAdams. Doug McAdams. Old Doug McAdams. Oh, good. He had a pint of Guinness and forgot where he placed it. That's Irish. I'm crossing so many. I'm quoting a Robin Williams stand up. They said that the Irish found civilization had a couple of pints of Guinness and forgot where they put it. That's probably, yeah. Anyhow. Common on the book side for that to happen, Robert Jordan did the same thing. He had a- Wheel of Time. Oh my gosh. My brother is a huge fan of Wheel of Time and I just look at him and was like, I can't, I can't go down that rabbit hole. Oh, yeah. Okay. Now, considering you have them tattooed on your arm, that's what you're pointing to. Yeah, I, my problem is, and this is another reason why I don't get tattoos is because it would be like a giant Bon Jovi New Jersey tattoo on my back. I would like think it was cool for about a week and then be like, what did I do? Now, all of my favorite books and quotes I have tattooed down the left side of my body right now. And Blood and Bloody Ashes from The Wheel of Time is there. I love that series. I've read through it so many times. Okay. Okay. So, Wheel of Time and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Good Omens, they're all coming up next. Those are the new predictions for all of the pinball companies out there. Spooky was trying to get the license, but unfortunately JJP got it from him. So, Well, I mean, if I could make a legitimate prediction of the next book, that's going to become a movie that will eventually become a pin, then none of that has happened short of the book yet would be the name of the wind by Patrick Rothfuss, which got picked up by Lin Manuel Miranda, because it is a very musical focused book series. The problem is, is that the writer, Patrick Rothfuss is a complete slacker and he's taken 10 years to finish up the third book in the series, which I'm guessing is the biggest reason they haven't committed to it yet, likely due to the same concerns that Game of Thrones had. Mm hmm. Yeah, it could have went Scott Pilgrim style. I mean, they hadn't even finished the final book and they were they were making the movie. I mean, well, most of the time, the movies don't go to the end of the series anyway. They kind of give up after, you know. Yeah, that's a certain point. If you've ever read the series of Scott Pilgrim, it actually follows it pretty close. It does really well for the timeframe. I mean, they really could have got a couple movies out of that and I don't know why they jammed. Is it five or seven books? No, six. Sorry. There's six books. Six books. Yeah. So I had the six books. Do you have them tattooed on you? No, not yet. I will. There's no question. So I've got like four or five lined up that I'm going to do all at once. Uh, cause I, the, the arm is all done. I've got the, uh, my, I think third Harry Potter tattoo. So I've got to go down the side and then start hitting my leg because it goes all the way over my shoulder and then it goes down the backside. Okay, that is by far more commitment than I have to any sort of artwork. So my hat off to you, sir. Well, and the dorkiness factor of it is it started off with a, yeah, if we're not dorky enough already, or nerdy, it's a dragon. So all the quotes are around a dragon, but the dragon doesn't have wings, which is often referred to in literature as a worm, W-Y-R-M. Okay, yeah. So it's a bookworm. Nice. It brings it all together. Yes. Love it. But yeah, Edgar Wright, I think, wrote the script and directed Scott Pilgrim vs. the World, which to this day, between that and another Edgar Wright film, which is Hot Fuzz, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. The translation from the book to the movie is perfect. And just some of the little nuances in that is just, it's great. Yeah. The whole, even the first battle scene from the first Evil X, it's almost like word for word. It's just great. If you haven't checked out the Scott Pilgrim series, please do yourself a favor. They're a graphic novel, so if you're into comic books, but it just, the whole series is fantastic. It's just, I think the reprinting of them all is colorized and stuff like that now too. You can get the full series or whatever. But go through your Kindle or whatever. Read the first one. If you're into video games, it's worth your time. It's all retro throwback stuff. It's like Ready Player A or Ready Player One or something. But not as stylized. I don't know how else to explain it. It's almost like a love letter to the old games. It's that awkward phase of someone's life where they're kind of transitioning from like, I got out of high school and I'm living on my own and I'm trying to figure out life. And some people have got it figured out and some people do not. And Scott Pilgrim does not have it figured out. So it's just a great book. It's a great book. So, well, as, as Glenn would say, check it out, right? Check it out. All right. You guys touched on something and I'm going to use this to segue really quick. Okay. Predictions for the next JJP game. We've seen on their social media pages that they are gearing up. They are producing next games. Do we think it's Toy Story? Is there any other? Is there any other? I would be shocked if it weren't Toy Story. It's like how long of the build up for Guns N' Roses was there? And it was it was really the worst kept secret out there. And so it's almost it's almost ridiculously open at this point that we're just waiting for it to finally drop. I would put it this way. I would be shocked beyond belief if it weren't Pat Lawler and Toy Story. So my question to you is, because we're all family men here, are you in on one? Is it one of those things you've got to see at first? Is it something that you absolutely love? You know, Toy Story is a little mixed for me. And this is probably just a theme thing for me because I think the first one and the second one are great movies. The third one, it almost felt like, oh, we're doing this again? Wait, something interesting happens and they get stuck and then they have to find some elaborate escape. Then the last one I felt like, okay, so now not only do I think all my, all my abandoned Luke Skywalker dolls are out there somewhere, um, abandoned in the backwoods somewhere running around, but it's, it's almost like I appreciate the theme for the original Toy Story and Toy Story 2, but when it gets beyond that, you know, kind of the initial grow up phase, it, it, it starts losing the magic for me. And I would say the same thing about Wreck-It Ralph. For me, that connects to me on a big level because I love the original, the theme, the integration was amazing. And at the very end, it is this, hey, we're wrapped up in this really neat feel good story. And I understand the second one. And it was fun to kind of go down those things. But it was almost like, yeah, OK, like we're it's interesting, but it's still the same thing. It's like, hey, they develop this relationship and then they fight and they break up and then they kind of this they reconcile and have this kumbaya. But it doesn't seem like it's as magical at the end than I would say the original Wreck-It Ralph. So long story longer, Toy Story for one and two, if they could just keep it at those two, then I would really appreciate it. And it would probably connect with me on the theme. Okay, second layout. Pat Lawler is a mixed bag for me. I like playing a little faster than he typically does. And most of his games are typically trap up, shoot, okay, recover, okay, trap up, shoot, okay, recover. And I know that he's produced, he's designed amazing games out there. And maybe just better players appreciate his style more than me. But I don't know, I'm kind of at that, I need to see it first. What do you think, George? I'm right there with you. I really enjoyed the first couple of toy stories and I think you nailed it. I think you nailed it there, Scott, with the, if they can keep it focused on the first two, it makes the most sense. The third story I feel like was the first one that was shifted more towards the parents as opposed to the kids and it had to do with separation anxiety as your kid goes to college. And then the fourth one was, in my opinion, addressing what parents do with... Sorry, what's the phrase for when your kids are no longer in your home and... Empty nesters. Empty nesters. There you go. Yeah. So the fourth one I feel like was really targeting the concept of empty nesters and what do you do with your life after your kids have gone on. So do you move on? Do you separate? Do you... What does that look like when you're no longer... It just, it seems like the third and the fourth movie had nothing to do with kids. And how do you even play that in a pinball game? Like, I'm imagining as you progress through the third movie or the fourth movie, and like Buzz and Woody decide they're gonna go their separate ways, are you bawling at the end of that game? Because it was such a heartbreaking moment that you're reminded of. I, Toy Story seems like a weird theme to me. It's one that I can totally understand why people would get behind, but Toy Story seems so not at face value having anything to do with toys or kids, especially in the later movies. So I think if they kept it focused to the first two, it would make, it would make a lot of sense or at least make it a lot more fun. Unless, of course, they did a 180. And what if it's Toy Story only in name, but it's focused on Lightyear, the new movie that's coming out about Buzz. And that, to me, I could get excited about because there's, it's Toy Story and we happen, there's going to be some fun references likely, but it's a science fiction movie about a character from a Toy Story universe of television show. Before we move on to the next topic which we are going to be looking at now, the most recent with tofu. Rapid racing with назiness ay dash el minuel. Theп Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi, Tim Tim Kitzrow, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, So we went on a Disney Antonio Cruz, okay? So most of the time I was slathered in sunblock and standing in the middle of the pool with this giant Disney movie playing while my kids kicked, prodded, and poked me as they were swimming around me. And so, yes, I noticed that, especially when you look at Sid's face, the bad kid, you're like, oh, wow, that is definitely a big deal. But I would say the toy animations still hold up. Yes, like it's the it's the human animations that have been completely changed but the toy animations that I would say they would hold up. Yeah, I still think it'll sell a boatload of games because it is it is a theme that almost everybody can at least be interested in. At least accessible. It's not going to polarize people like Rob Zombie or something. I'm trying to think of a theme that could get released right now that assuming it has the backing of a company that's not just gonna ruin the code or make some really awful mistakes with regards to the to the to the layout or something like that that that just won't sell right now there's so many people who pinball machines I I would say there is there is some some rumblings like my this is what I noticed my friends who are in real estate is that He, uh, he's felt like tremors in the force where there are people who are having a little more challenge on, on selling their, their high priced homes. And, and I will say that he's dealing with really high end homes, but still people are like, oh, I don't know if I'll qualify for that. And so I don't know. And I think what's, what eventually is going to happen is, I mean, we love pinball. We're obviously pinball freaks, uh, for, for lack of a better term. And we will probably be interested in buying these high-priced toys regardless of the market. However, we're going to start losing some casual people. And especially something like this where people in pinball already have a feeling of Lawler. Are they really interested in the Lawler game or are they not interested in the Lawler game? Are they interested in the JJP game or are they not interested in the JJP game? Whereas you're going to start losing the casual people who they don't know anything about that, but they know toys story. My nervousness is too. Is that this whole playfield thing really plays into that. It makes me nervous when someone buys our very first game and a chunk of their playfield comes off and the company supporting it's like, yeah, we're not gonna do anything about here's a washer and his a washer, put it over the hole. Um, that's my big concern too, is, is yeah. Yeah, at the same, to be fair, all companies have a similar issue and we, I own tons of Stern games, but you had a playfield issue with TMNT. Correct, but they took care of me with no problem. Okay, they did, but they gave you a new playfield. Yeah. The printing was off on the playfield. Yeah. So they gave you a new playfield, but okay, I mean that's, yes, they did make good on Jesse Anderson, Who's Cover Banking, Amazon 14, Langete exhibitions and terror ???rock, fourth menu 16yer, Junkhead, Z secondo Pariro, We worrying about Madonna, Santa Rosa In the ZACH MINKAHNEN 87 years old Chef,грay ride for a cup conspiracy business that corned in the Behavior e réal do do that's the oppressing part the three yesterday yesterday If Stern sent me a blank playfield, it's still a step up from doing nothing at all. No, absolutely. Or giving some hard as nails finger polish paint. Yeah. Yeah. One thing I wanted to add was about the housing market. We're up almost 2.5% since I think I purchased even the place I'm currently in right now. So just in the past six months, In order to combat inflation, they've increased the mortgage rates up 2.5%. Which leads into why people on the housing side are starting to- Right. They're starting, but you're going to feel that there's less, I know it's more of a feeling, but less easy money out there. More than a feeling. What happens is people start thinking, well, I'm, I, you know, I don't need to take that luxury thing. I mean, the, the toys are the first things to go, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not gonna dig into that, cuz I, I feel like that's a can of worms within itself. Uh, but yeah, I, I get what you're saying. So it's gonna be interesting to see what the market does here. And I feel like that's a segment for a different show, cuz I still wanna do one more thing. Okay. Before we wrap this all up, I know we're at the one hour mark. Well, technically, a little more, cuz, cuz of what happened before. Anywho, I've got a segment still. And I know if I had these two about it, but if you guys have never listened to Slap Save Pinball Podcast, which I can't actually find on the internet. Pull out the Wayback Machine. Yeah, let's pull out the Wayback Machine. They used to play a game called Flip Bolt Torch. Uh, it's very simple. We're going to pick a year of pinball machine. Uh, I will give these guys the list. They're going to decide which one they're going to flip for money, which one they're going to bolt to their floor and which one they're going to torch, whether with gasoline or a lava pit. I don't care how you do it. You could do Todd Tucky's out. Todd Tucky. Throw the Street Fighter off the roof. So I've picked the year and I'm going to go very specific with the year because I'm pretty for sure. If I if I say the Gottliebs in this year that you guys would be like, yeah, I'm going to torch punchy the clown. Oh, come on. Punchy the clown was awesome. So here's the year. You ready for this? We're going to go Bally Williams 1993. Oh, so here is the list. Okay. Go ahead. What Scott? No, no, no. I'm saying okay. I'm ready. You ready? Ready? Yeah. Okay. Brahms, Jokers, Dracula. Okay. Indiana Jones, the pinball venture, Judge Dredd, Star Trek Next Generation, Twilight Zone, and Whitewater. That is quite the list. That is a good year. Yeah. Okay. I did write them down. So Bram Stoker's Dracula. Yep. Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones. I've judged, read Star Trek The Next Generation, Twilight Zone, and Whitewater. So we have six to choose from. You have six to choose from. Man, that was a really good year. And they did, I mean, heck, Twilight Zone they produced 15,000. Whitewater was 7,000. Man, they were pumping out games back then. I mean, just in those two alone were over 30,000. Okay, now the challenging thing is I actually do, I know immediately one of the answers. Okay. I know immediately one of the answers. So do you want to go first Scott or do you, should we all do our, okay, let's all do our flip first. Which one? Is that the one you're going with Scott? Yeah, that's the one I immediately know. Okay, which one are you flipping? I'm flipping Twilight Zone. Really? Because I actually, ironically, I actually have a super nice Twilight Zone. Okay. It's never been in my house. It's been at my friend's for about three years now. Oh. Three or four years in his house. And I can't really say that I miss it. But it's a super nice Twilight Zone and I'm like, well, I don't like, I can't bring myself to sell it yet. But hey, if you're looking for a super nice Twilight Zone. So that's the one I would sell. It's just, it's never for some reason had the pull to bring it into my house. It's you'd sell that over Indiana Jones, huh? Yeah, you know, I, I like Indiana Jones and my friends, my friend had a nice Indiana Jones that he finally sold. But I played it and I felt like, hey, this is a fun game. But it still had John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr.., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. I've neither been confirmed nor denied, but they had one pinball machine that I'm not kidding had one flipper was in the in the salute position the whole time and the other one was missing a rubber. So it was just it was it was a it was a Pirates of the Caribbean, and I think that it wasn't even ridden hard and put away wet. It was sunk to the bottom of the ocean. It was that bad. Oh, my God. Oh, my goodness. Okay, so selling, I'm selling Whitewater. You're selling Whitewater, huh? Okay. Yes. Only, but with the caveat that I would keep it for like a year or two before selling it and wait for the value to go up in preparation for Whitewater 2.0 or whatever that next rule set is and really make the cash assuming that it's like what happened to Rudy's Nightmare would happen with Whitewater. Hmm. Gotcha. Alright, what about you Josh? I think I would flip, I think I'm there with you with Twilight Zone. It's hard because I'd either do Twilight Zone or Indiana Jones. Okay. Both wide bodies. Both wide bodies, both ridiculously priced for what they are. I mean, what are our Indiana Joneses going for like, definitely north of 10k, aren't they? It was kind of crazy. My friend sold his for, and I think I can say this, he sold it for 11,000 with the anticipation of John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, I'm gonna go with Twilight Zone. Okay. One of the most iconic, both of you guys went Twilight Zone. And it's one of the most iconic pinball machines of all time. Like in every movie or show where pinball shows up, it's a Twilight Zone. I get it. And I get it. It's the same thing though as Adam's Family for some reason. Because I didn't get into pinball during the 90s, I got into pinball in the last 10 years, it doesn't have that nostalgic connection for me. And if I put a Twilight Zone or an Addams Family next to a Jurassic Park, I'm gonna take the Jurassic Park. I mean, every time. Just because it's just... Wait, the East Jurassic Park or the Stern? Well, no, Data East Lost World is where my heart really is set, so... Oh, wow. No, I'm kidding. You and Greg Bone must get along well. Well, and I think the thing is, too, is Twilight Zone, it is a good game. It is iconic. It's a really fun game. I actually, when I got into the hobby, that's one of the ones I really focused on. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Larry K. Sheats Jr., John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr.., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Josh Sharpe, and Josh Sharpe. Thyme They like some, there's something about Whitewater that pulls them in. It's the same reason why I still have my Stern Pirates of the Caribbean because they all go and play Stern Pirates of the Caribbean. Same thing as Simpsons. Everybody goes and plays Simpsons. And a lot of times these newer games that I really like, they don't, they don't connect with. I got a bold Indiana Jones. Just the theme is, is, is amazing. I would struggle between choosing Twilight Zone or Indiana Jones, only that it's difficult, but that half a second and I'd lean towards Indiana Jones. I grew up with the movies. When you're hitting the pops up at the top and you actually get the sound of the punches, which are so, it's such an iconic sound from the Indiana Jones franchise. All of it. The theme immersion is great. I love the... It's one of those games that one day when I have room, I'll own and that will be one of the few bolted to the floor pinball machines for me. Okay. Even though Indiana Jones really has no outcome on Rage for the Lost Ark, he could have not have showed up and nothing would have happened different. Yes. Yeah. Okay. All right. Despite that, I'm still in. And it's Indiana Jones and it's better than the Stern Indiana Jones. Oh, okay. The Stern Indiana Jones never existed. Okay. In the multiverse, that would never have made it. Okay. I do enjoy Indiana Jones and I've got a better appreciation for it now that they've released it on Pinball FX. And I've been playing the crap out of that on my phone. It is so tuned in. Yes, that is really the problem with those games is because usually when you get to and find them, the flippers stink so bad you cannot hit all the shots. Yeah. Well, what's funny too is that game is so heavenly or heavenly. Heavenly. Heavenly. Dependent on the bonus. Yeah. Like your score looks tiny and then depending on how many modes you've completed, all of a sudden your bonus shoots up. It's the size of the bonus, Josh. Size of the bonus. It is one of those games. I think I'm probably bolting Whitewater. Oh, wow. Okay. It's funny because I'm sitting there with my son today and I'm like, do you feel like this game is a game from 1993? You've got Earthshaker that's from 1990. That's three years before. Right. I feel like the premise of Whitewater, even though it's simple, it's one of those simple to learn, hard to master kind of games. And it feels so good every time you get the vacation jackpot, if you can actually get to that. And lining up the five times with the multiball and blowing away 100 million jackpots, it just, it feels so good. I do love Indiana Jones. I love the mode based on that. I think the wide body is what kills it for me though. It plays just a little too slow, even though that playfield's pretty packed, and so you kind of don't notice it for the most part, and the ramps are pretty quick to come back to you. But I think it's that... And granted, this is all in a vacuum, right? Like, I'm assuming that these games that we're getting are like perfect, like your path of adventure, whatever it is, is going to work every single time and whatnot. But yeah, I just, Indiana Jones is a great game, but I just, I think white water edges it out for me, which is kind of weird. All right. So, so, okay. This is a really great list. Is there any, which one you, which one you're torturing Scott? Oh, come on. This is, this has to be universal. Like if you, if you all don't agree with me, then, then this is ridiculous. It's Judge Dredd. I mean, the things that fly, flaming turd ball. It is horrible. I'm not going to agree with you on that. Oh, wow. I don't know if I agree with you on that. Wow, it's a turd. Sorry. No chance. I don't think I'd ever want to own a Judge Dredd. Have you ever played the game? Yes, I have played a game. The layout on it is fun. I enjoy shooting it. The artwork on it is one of, actually, one of my favorite artwork-related playfields. I think it feels very true to the original comic. México live, мож watchedayout the서 Super Bowl 2019 I'd have to burn Star Trek The Next Generation. Oh, it's on fire already because of all the shorting out. There's always issues. It's the one game I feel like whenever I play it on location, it usually doesn't play well. And when I have played it, when it does play well, I'm constantly reminded by how much I can't stand the television show. Oh, wow. The human version is great. And I can appreciate it, but I get, I don't know why, I don't know why I get so turned off based on TNG, which I just wasn't a fan of. It is an interesting time capsule, though. Like, if you watch Galaxy Quest, I mean, it's hilarious because it's just it's crushing them. Yes. One of the greatest movies. That's that's up there. That is not a movie. That is a documentary based on how dysfunctional the original Star Trek cast members were. I'm going to have to rewatch that now. Yes, you do. Okay, Alan Rickman with the By Grab-Tar's Hammer. So great. Swallow his pride and say, what a savings as they're opening for a new Best Buy-style store. It's one of the greatest moments in film, period. It's so, it's awesome. Okay, speaking of the, I guess the, since he's the doppelganger for Spock, have you Googled Leonard Nimoy And the Ballad of Bilbo Baggins? I haven't. No, it is great. You basically just Google it. Actually, you know what? Delete this podcast right now and go and watch that. And you have to watch the video because it is straight out of the late 60s, early 70s, and I think they had to have been on LSD when they made it. I'm so concerned right now that somehow Tom Bombadil is included in the ballad of Bilbo Baggins. Although it really isn't about Bilbo because Lord of the Rings is where Tom Bombadil came in. And as long as Tom Bombadil is not incorporated, I think I'm okay with everything you just said. He's not, but it's great. Yeah. Okay, because Tom Bombadil is the biggest crutch I feel like in in narrative fan or in in in epic fantasy and uh and Dennis that that that goes out to you Mr. Kriesel. Okay, legitimately the movies are better than the books on Lord of the Rings totally saying it. Wow. I think I could actually agree with that. Uh the books I was I was trying to listen to if I could have listened to those on four times speed I would have because oh my gosh. Josh, the Lord of the Rings, the books weren't a great read, I think. There's moments that are so iconic, like as Gimli and Legolas are yelling back and forth at the battle, counting up the number of kills that they have. But The Hobbit, I think that Tolkien was a much better writer when he came back and did The Hobbit. I'm reading that right now. And ironically, the movie quality inversed. Yes, exactly. Yes. Yep. I watched the first one. I just couldn't even put in the other two. I own all three because they were like on a sale. It was a combo sale. I have the same thing. Yeah. And it was like super cheap digitally. And so I own them and I don't think I've ever I have all the extended versions. I don't think I've ever finished them. Yeah. That's because I don't have the time. If I could watch the movie on double speed, I would too. So yeah. I think I'm right there with George. I'm torching Star Trek to next generation and I think it's because that stupid cannon mode, you can't get around and you have to shoot right up the middle into the hole and even that hole is annoying to get into. Just like, it's not, I want a shot that feels satisfying to hit, not like just some little dinky hole that, I don't know, it just, I don't know. I will say I was gonna if I was gonna do it two for I would have burned both of them but mainly it was on the reliability issues on Star Trek the next generation see and that's why I said we're in a vacuum where they'd work perfectly so yeah but no I just there's something about next generation maybe it's because Richie took that game made it into a a a regular a standard body and made such a great game in the Star Trek the new movies it's such a good game it's such a good game it's such a good game it's such a good game it's such a good game it's such a good game it's such a good game It makes Next Gen look just that much worse. Yeah, but Next Gen does have that connection to the 90s nostalgia. So I'm okay with that connection. I didn't think it was as terrible of a show as George did, but still. The I have a problem with everyone's defense of the next generation when they tell you that the first season wasn't great. It just make it to the second and third seasons and you'll really enjoy it. But that's like 24 episodes or 20. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Larry K. Sheats Jr., I don't have the kind of time. Yeah, I will say the, you know, I guess I would say a better series than Star Trek Next Generation would be the Babylon 5 series. If you want that connection. Is the Babylon 5 the one where they're constantly in the bar and drinking and there's... That's Cheers. I feel like there's a Star Trek television series where they spend like 20 or 30 percent of every episode in a bar setting. Oh, I don't know. Maybe that's probably Deep Space Nine. I'm betting. I'm not. I'm not a Trekkie. I caught episodes here and there. But the Babylon 5 series was actually really interesting because it was written by Michael Stravinsky or whatever his it's he's a comic book writer. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr.., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. So, yes, there are a lot in these things that were before you trust Unプ邪 سلسله Że كه بد Comedy Blog. So this doesn't mean we're only checking out the show for you, evolve and get into some more That's right. So we're looking at, are the first fewえー the first MCU episodes that were before we Celeste already say we have an episode for Superman and Batman, and then after they we start football, you're looking at more of a formersoci列ину I brief, it's a little as beautiful as 멋 prize. Oh, okay. In other words, if we want people to get a hold of you, how do they get a hold of you? They can check me out on twitch.tv slash don'tpanicflip. I also have a website, which is don'tpanicflip.com, where I have a blog where we talk about science fiction and fantasy novels, how to stream, and just a plethora of different things. There's also a lot of photography on there. And outside of that, there's the Pinball Network. You can check out the website, thepinball.network, and also the Pinball Community Discord. We're all super active on that Discord. I agree. I'm on there as well. It's a nice Discord. Scott, I guess I'll do the outro. I always do the outro. If you want to get a hold of us, we're Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at LoserKidPinballPodcast.gmail.com. If you want to get a hold of us on the socials on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or Twitch, it's all at LoserKidPinball. We've simplified it so you don't have to play the podcast part. We're more than happy to talk with you and whatnot. We like to chit chat with you. We're all super active on that Discord. We're all super active on that Discord. I'm on there as well. It's a nice Discord. Scott, I guess I'll do the outro. We're all at Loserkidpinball. We've simplified it so you don't have to play the podcast part. We're more than happy to talk with you and whatnot. We like to chit chat a little bit on there. And we're super stoked. Please keep an eye on the Facebook page over the next couple weeks. We are releasing puzzle pieces. I did finger quotes there. To the general public, there are some people behind the seats that knows what's going on. And this is exciting. I'm glad that George has agreed to join on our ship for this along with the other I counted the other day I think we have 20 plus people involved in what we're doing so it's quite the little army of what we've got going on I hope that's enough to wet your whistle yes and big shout to Michael Michael Barnard who did the rush art and he actually helped us out with the with the art for this project too so who is that giving away too much information So I'm not really sure. We'll leave it on that. So thanks again for joining us, George. It's always great to watch and have you on, watching your stream. I'm glad that we finally got to have you on the podcast. This is awesome. So thanks so much for having me on. You guys are awesome. This was a fun conversation. See you in two weeks? Yep. See you in two weeks. Bye. Helena THE RAP After War Henrik THIS IS FOR shelter