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Episode 63 – It’s More Fun to Compete

Slam Tilt Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Oct 5, 2017
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Escher Lefkoff discusses his path to Papa 20 championship with host Ron Hallett and co-host Bruce Nightingale.

Summary

Ron Hallett and Bruce Nightingale host Escher Lefkoff and Adam Lefkoff on Slam Tilt Podcast Episode 63, discussing their entry into competitive pinball, early tournament experiences, and Escher's Papa 20 championship win. The conversation spans Escher's early childhood memories playing pinball, his junior tournament wins, and detailed recollections of major tournaments including Pinberg and Papa 20, with discussion of specific high-pressure games and competitive moments.

Key Claims

  • Escher Lefkoff won Papa 20 (a major pinball tournament)

    high confidence · Escher Lefkoff, confirmed multiple times throughout episode, including discussion of finals gameplay on Jungle Queen

  • Escher won a junior pop-up tournament at age 7-8 on Wheel of Fortune, beating Joshua Henderson in finals

    high confidence · Adam Lefkoff and Escher Lefkoff, direct recollection of tournament results

  • Adam Lefkoff placed third in Northwest (a major tournament) with 4 qualifying points in a Papa-style format

    high confidence · Adam Lefkoff, personal tournament result discussion

  • Escher had a pivotal tiebreaker game on Dracula against Steve Bowden and Jason Mordrick, scoring $850 million in a triple stack

    high confidence · Adam Lefkoff, detailed play-by-play recollection of specific tournament moment

  • At Papa 20 qualifying, Escher scored 1.2 million on Future Spa, which was the #9 score

    high confidence · Adam Lefkoff, specific qualifying result from Papa 20

  • Jungle Queen was the pivotal game in Papa 20 finals for Escher, with a key shot up the EC lane

    high confidence · Escher Lefkoff, response to question about defining moment of tournament

  • Recent Papa circuit tournaments show a trend where the #2 seed going into finals has won multiple times

    medium confidence · Adam Lefkoff, observational commentary about Papa Finals meta

  • Junior divisions at early tournaments used different game banks than qualifying, which was later changed to use same bank

    high confidence · Adam Lefkoff, historical discussion of tournament format evolution

  • Thursday Classics at Expo creates consistently long lines despite having 50+ classic games available

    high confidence · Adam Lefkoff and Ron Hallett, shared observation about queue times

Notable Quotes

  • “I used to play football, but now I'm just Escher's dad.”

    Adam Lefkoff @ early in episode — Self-deprecating humor introducing himself; establishes father-son dynamic that permeates episode

  • “He's been alley-passing since he was four years old, and I sort of didn't make a big deal out of it. He does it now without really thinking, and it's really nice.”

    Adam Lefkoff @ mid-episode — Reflects on Escher's early skill development and parenting approach to competitive pinball

  • “When you lose to the guy in the tiebreaker, and then he goes on to win the tournament, then you feel great. Because you can say, oh, I lost, but the guy I lost to won the tournament.”

    Adam Lefkoff @ late episode — Philosophical observation about competitive pinball dynamics and consolation in tournament loss

  • “I'm probably a much better coach than player these days.”

    Adam Lefkoff @ mid-late episode — Self-aware comment about shift in role from active competitor to mentor for Escher

  • “Jungle Queen. When it went up and back? Up and back a couple hundred times.”

    Escher Lefkoff @ late episode — Description of the defining moment of his Papa 20 championship win

  • “so is it okay if I give him a hug now?”

    Adam Lefkoff @ mid-episode — Comeback to Josh Sharp after Papa 20 victory, illustrating competitive banter and Escher's championship

  • “You got no chance. He's done.”

    Adam Lefkoff @ mid-episode — Adam's pessimistic text to his wife before Escher's crucial Pinberg qualifier, which Escher ultimately won

  • “It's funny, I texted my wife, I'm like, he's got no chance. He's done. And I was like, oh, you got this, Desher, no problem.”

    Adam Lefkoff @ mid-episode — Shows parental coaching approach and emotional investment in tournament outcomes

Entities

Escher LefkoffpersonAdam LefkoffpersonRon HallettpersonBruce NightingalepersonJoshua HendersonpersonZach SharppersonJosh SharppersonSteve BowdenpersonJason Mordrickperson

Signals

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Escher Lefkoff won Papa 20, a major pinball tournament, with pivotal performances on Jungle Queen and other games in the finals

    high · Multiple confirmations throughout episode; detailed discussion of finals gameplay, specifically EC lane shots on Jungle Queen

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Recent trend in Papa circuit finals showing #2 seed going into finals has won multiple times, including Papa 20

    medium · Adam Lefkoff observation: 'there's been, with the Papa Finals, I think three other tournaments, including last week in Vancouver, where the two going into the final game ends up winning'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Jungle Queen top target shooting strategy (into pop-bumpers rather than scoops) is optimal play; confirmed through testing and tournament success

    high · Adam and Escher confirmed strategy through years of play testing: 'we finally came to the conclusion that the top targets into the pops to go up ABC is the way'

  • ?

    community_signal: Sandbagging accusations leveled at Escher on online forums (Penn side) after choosing C division at Papa; determined to be baseless

    medium · Adam Lefkoff: '200-thread discussion about Escher sandbagging at APA, which was, you know, ridiculous' and explanation that Escher simply chose C because he knew those games

  • ?

    content_signal: Papa 20 finals video has significant viewership (~50,000 views); Escher rewatches frequently; HBO filmed Papa 20 quarterfinals for Real Sports project

    high · Adam: 'the video has like 50,000 views. A thousand of them have got to be me personally' and discussion of HBO filming Robert Gagnon's quarterfinal group

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.377

0:00
My name is Mr. Candy. My, what a nice-looking group of students. Who can tell me what I'm holding in my hand? Uh, your nads?
0:12
Yeah. Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, this is the Slam Tilt Podcast, the show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Hallett, here with my co-host, Bruce Nightingale. I cannot say a word. Why can't you say a word, Bruce? I have to be PC this episode.
0:44
Oh, oh, okay. I gotcha. See? All the hate mail, huh? Yeah, that's getting bad. Yes. This is episode 63, Revenge of the Pink Panther, which I honestly don't remember the plot. I don't either. I don't remember. I know that Dreyfuss was back after he died at the end of the previous movie, which made no sense. None at all. I think it lost me at that point. Yeah, it did lose me. And then this is the second to last one he's in? No, this is the last one that he was in, that he was actually alive. Yeah.
1:16
Okay. But we have guests. We have guests. We have two guests. Intros are now in order. We have Adam Lefkoff and Escher Lefkoff. Welcome, gentlemen. Hey, guys. Thanks for having us. Hey, thanks for having us. I used to play football, but now I'm just Escher's dad. That was my original idea to announce you as just Escher and Escher's dad. You know, I got that from Ethan Blonder. Do you guys remember Ethan back in the day? Oh, yes. His dad used to post back in, you know, RGP days, and he would always post as Ethan's dad, and so I kind of stole it from him, Ethan being the first Wonder Kid. So how did you gentlemen get in this beautiful hobby? I don't know. Should we start at the end? So I added to pinball because I grew up with it. We had a couple games in our basement when I was born, and I started looking over the play field and drooling on the play field when I was two years old. He doesn't remember that part. That's how I always tell it. Yes, lots of drool on the play field. It's like so schmutz you can't even see the flippers. like that amount of play field you know I could read some flippers when I was three what's like your first memory my very first true memory is when I got to the Simpsons wizard mode not actually the full thing the mystery spot where you have to cross your hands and my arms were not long enough to cross my hands so I had to play it normally oh my he was uh he was three at the time i actually have video i have to go and find it i keep telling people i have video it's buried somewhere but uh his little arms couldn't reach the buttons crossed and so he tried to play it normal have you ever tried to play mystery spot where like you think all right i'm gonna flip left to go right it you can't do it and you can just see the flippers out of sync it's it's quite quite funny yeah i think you're actually in a diaper, too, playing. Like, nothing on but your diaper, and you just play it. Three years old, getting the mystery spot. You know, that's very impressive, sir. Very impressive. He got Alien Invasion in that game, too. It was a solid, you know, probably 60, 70 million games, so for a three-year-old, it seemed like he had some potential. Yeah. I don't know where it went wrong.

  • Adam Lefkoff was a commentator at Expo and received notes from Escher while on the mic

    high confidence · Adam Lefkoff, personal recollection of broadcasting experience

    • Trent Augustine
    person
    Sebastian Bobioperson
    Jordan Treadwayperson
    Adam Beckerperson
    Jeff Gagnonperson
    Andre Messingkopfperson
    Robert Gagnonperson
    Dave Stewartperson
    Papa 20event
    Pinbergevent
    Northwestevent
    Expoevent
    Slam Tilt Podcastorganization
    Finbergvenue
    HBO Real Sportsevent
  • ?

    venue_signal: Thursday Classics at Expo generates persistent long lines (6-7 weeks reported) despite large game bank, indicating high demand exceeding venue capacity

    high · Ron and Adam: 'it doesn't seem like, no matter how many games they have, right, they could have a bank of 50 classic games and we're still going to wait six or seven weeks'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Adam Lefkoff transitioned from active competitive player to coach/mentor role for son Escher; initially not allowed to commentate due to age restrictions, later permitted

    high · Adam: 'I'm probably a much better coach than player these days' and discussion of restrictions on Escher's commentary at young age

  • ?

    historical_signal: Pin Brawl format changed from using different game banks for junior divisions to using same bank as qualifying; MVP points system later revised due to fairness issues in team competition

    high · Adam detailed explanation: 'from then on they started using the same bank that you qualified on in finals so that at least the kids would, you know, they could learn the rules'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: X-Men machine configuration at Papa 20 finals lacked outlane rubbers and ball save, creating high-tilt difficulty and shorter ball times

    high · Adam: 'There were no rubbers on the outlanes and no ball saved' and description of own first ball lasting 7,000 points

  • ?

    community_signal: Strong culture of supporting competitors who beat you in tournaments, especially if they advance further in the competition

    medium · Adam philosophical reflection: 'when you lose to the guy in the tiebreaker, and then he goes on to win the tournament, then you feel great. Because you can say, oh, I lost, but the guy I lost to won'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Papa 20 finals video on Jungle Queen has become iconic viewing for Escher Lefkoff community; rewatched frequently as motivational content

    medium · Adam: 'I go back and watch it occasionally' and reference to ~50k views with personal multiple viewings

    • 3:45
    Do you remember your first X-Buck? I remember a little bit. I remember a little bit the pin brawl and the stuffed animal I won for taking second place. In the kids' tournament? In the toddlers' tournament. In the toddlers', that's right. I took him to Expo when he was four, was his first Expo, and that was back the real pin brawl. The four-player, two-team with, you know, Kaz and Josh running it. You guys play in that? Yes, we actually are winners. Oh, yeah? What'd you guys win? We won Division D, D, something. I remember picking a lot of 8-Ball Deluxe.
    4:24
    It's funny. The very first time I went, 2006 with Escher was actually the second year in 2007. I played with the Carrolls here at Lions Classic Pinball, and we were in the D Division. D as in what's a good name? Dandy. Oh, Dandy. Dipsy Doodle in honor of the Pittsburgh Pinball Open this weekend. They have a Dipsy Doodle in their main bank, actually. That's probably a first. That is a first. Certainly a circuit first.
    4:54
    But so we were in the D division, and we won it. And we got one of those giant, enormous trophies where they spent the, whatever, $50,000 on entries and bought those trophies. They are so heavy.
    5:08
    No cash prizes, but really cool trophies. Yes, I agree totally. And it wasn't just the players who got trophies. They would have the best games. Right? Yeah. And the MVP points, those used to count for Whoppers way back in the day. Like half of my original Whoppers were MVP points. Damn. Which, you know, doesn't make any sense on a team competition because you have to beat the other person on your team to, you know, get the most amount of points. So all the best players, you know, the Elwins and Neal Schapses, they would, you know, trade off wins, and none of them would ever get the MVP. So it was a little hokey. That's how they used to roll back in the day. Of course, a lot of the folks listening now probably don't remember the good old days, like us old farts. Oh, God, I'm so old.
    5:59
    I've got to remind you, I mean, I'm 50 and I feel old, but that's like a young spring chicken to you guys, right? I'm in 46. I'm 46.
    6:11
    Wow. Wow, Bruce, you're older than I thought. He's a lot younger than I thought. What's that mean? wow my damn walker I'm going to get my damn walker out it's not the age it's the miles it is the miles but we digress we were Escher you were telling us how you got into pinball yeah so after I went to Expo when I was four I just wanted to go to more tournaments and I went to my first pop-up when I was seven eight you were seven or eight I think seven or eight and I set your expectations low, because back then, that was still, juniors was still like, you know, 40, 50 guys, and it was the full, you have to do a pop a ticket, like the big kids. And I qualified first. Yes, you were the, you had an amazing ticket. Yeah, $50 top qualifying. Yeah, good job. And I ended up winning. I beat Joshua Henderson in the finals on Wheel of Fortune. Oh, yeah, that was the Wheel of Fortune year. We have a wheel of fortune, so that was really nice to see that in the finals, right? Yes. Now you know how to play it. It was funny, the year after that I was talking to the organizers, and it's like, you know, it's great that the kid division, they rolled in new games for the kid division back then like they did for the A, B, and C.
    7:34
    And it's like, you know, it's kind of unfair, because other than Joshua Henderson and Escher and maybe one or two other players, most of the kids, it's not like they're going to know, you know, they played these games all weekend long to qualify, and then you switch games on them. You know, it's hard enough as an adult to figure out how to play those games, but it just seems a bit much for the kids. And so from then on they started using the same bank that you qualified on in finals so that at least the kids would, you know, they could learn the rules and have a chance. And then, of course, they started doing the senior division on the same bank. Split flippers as well was added in. But, yeah, your first pop-up, that was still – It was only A, B, and C divisions. And third, I think they had just added the third Classics, Thursday Classics. Yeah. I think so, yes. Yeah, that was the year they added it. I remembered because you're like, oh, let's get that one. We naively thought, oh, Thursday, it'll be nice and quiet. You know, we can play Classics and not have to wait in lines. Boy, that didn't pan out. No. Thursday Classics, I think, is the worst line there is. Still is. And it doesn't seem like, no matter how many games they have, right, they could have a bank of 50 classic games and we're still going to wait six or seven weeks. Yep. But that's good. That's a good thing for competitive pinball to have that many people interested. Totally agree. So, yeah, you won juniors. And then I took third in Northwest. That was a big moment.
    9:06
    Yes, that was. I got some good fortune. And that was back when it was the old Papa style in the finals where if one person on the other side 12, you could get through clean with three people in your group to get through three. Like three people in your group could get through clean. And I got through clean with four points. Which is, that's unheard of. Not even a tiebreaker, but to get through clean to the finals. Yes. And to get to the finals, I was 17th for a long time. That's right. Escher went to bed because he was tired and worn out. And it's like, son, you're not going to bleed up. You need to come back and try. And he's like, no, I've tried my best. I'm done. And then through, you know, the pinball gods stretched out their hand and performed a miracle. And Dave Stewart, on his last game, had a huge score on a game that Escher was already ahead of him but below the guy in 16th place. And so Escher magically made it into 16th when all the dust settled after, you know, the last game was put in. And he got in. And then he parlayed it into a Final Four appearance. Yeah, I could have won. You could have. Yeah. You did all right. Yeah, you got screwed in Congo, but, you know, that happens. It's pinball. It is pinball. Wow. I feel so bad the way I play now when I hear you two play.
    10:31
    I suck. Oh, that's not true. You do just fine. Everyone does just fine. You try your bestest, Bruce. My bestest is not as good as his. I still believe in you. Oh, God. You know, a lot of people can say that now. You know, a lot of kids these days are, especially when they grow up doing it, it all comes natural to them. It does. Esther's been alley-passing since he was four years old, and I sort of didn't make a big deal out of it. He's like, yeah, son, just shoot the ball over into that channel. And he does it now without really thinking, and it's really nice. When adults are all, oh, I'm so scared of the alley pass, there's nothing to be scared of. No, never fear the alley pass.
    11:16
    And has anything since Northwest? Yes. Have you done anything else, or that's pretty much the end of it? No, I'm really good.
    11:25
    You mean my papa when I did good? Oh, no, that's right. Yeah. I guess in a couple of more years, I think it was two more years. You had that Pinbird. I had the Pinbird run, which I had the most intense game of my life on Dracula. That was a tiebreaker from the quarterfinals to get to the semifinals. Dracula against Steve Bowden and Jason Mordrick. A couple of schlubs. Yeah. I don't know if you guys have heard of them. No. Never heard of those guys. Yeah. They're both at. They're both playing at GPO right now as we speak. I know. And I did a triple stack, and I got $850 million. Yeah, that was a pretty crummy triple stack. I know. It really was. And then Jason. Yeah, Jason was chopping wood. He got to like $600 million, right? And he had coffin lit on the flipper. So one shot to double stack. And then Bowden played three or four double stacks, can never get the triple, and misses me by 50 million? No, no, no. He was lower score, but he had more opportunities, especially on balls one and two, where he just couldn't bring in that third multi-ball at the same time. And it's, you know, it's such a huge thing on Dracula. But, yeah, that's one of the great Dracula games. I was rooting for you in that one. Oh, really? Yeah, just a little bit.
    12:51
    Wow. That was on the stream, too, if I remember. Yes, you can go and look that up on the interweb there. They have that one. It has quite a few views. So I go back and watch it occasionally. You got an in lane, actually, right before you started your triple stack on ball three.
    13:08
    So that ball goes out lane. There's a universe somewhere where you crap out and finish whatever. Oh, man. And that's it, and it's all downhill from there.
    13:18
    That's okay, because in that universe they get hit by a meteor. So, yeah, this is a better universe to be in. Maybe he gets hit by a meteor.
    13:26
    Would that be ironic or just a coincidence? I think it's just a coincidence. It's a terrible, horrible coincidence. Quinky Dink, definitely. Somebody will be playing Meteor if we were to get hit by a meteor and no one would tell us. Yeah, I guess so. Again, I've never showed you the great movie. There's a great 70s movie with James Bond's in it, Sean Connery. Meteor? The game wasn't based on that, right? Yes, it was. It was. Oh, my God, I didn't know that. Yes.
    13:56
    It was pretty hard to theme off a movie when you're a solid state, though. It's not like you can do all the great scenes or anything from it. Was there anything in the play field that's like a shout-out to the movie? The back glass is actually based off of the movie poster.
    14:12
    Okay, and how about the play field? Is there any tie-in to the movie at all? Nope, just the back glass. The spinner that lights when the meteor gets close and they have to spin it really fast. Nope, they failed with that part. Oh, well. But that's, well, there you go. That's meteor. There is a connection there. So it would be ironic in that case. There's no Sean Connery multiball in the game. There's no Natalie Wood multiball. Nothing from the movie. Oh, God, Natalie Wood, too. Yeah, she was in that. I think I've seen it once, and that was probably when I was Etcher's age. Actually, probably before I was Etcher's age on TV. Oh, so the TV, no, they would have cut out a few things. you know you didn't get to see the theatrical cut oh okay there's a director's cut now I think there's a director's cut of everything alright so finish your story after that Hidberg what was the next thing that happened it was we had a final Ford Indus that was pretty good no that was right before that was what was it probably the C division and Papa I was a sandbagger even know I... You guys remember this one? Escher was the number one seed in the seed division at Papa the year after. It was his first time he had played in an adult division, and you were now eight. Yeah, I was kind of jumping around. And we looked at the B bank, and there weren't a whole lot of games there that Escher knew very well, and we looked at the C bank and it was like looking at our basement. Yeah. A bunch of basement games were in that bank, and I was like, so Escher, what do you want to do, B or C? and he's like, I want to do Sea, Dad. I know these games. I'm like, okay, son. And then he goes and he... No, no, no. First ticket, I play a couple of the games. I play Godzilla and a couple of the other games that I'm not super excited for. And then my second ticket, I played Revenge from Mars. What was the other one? Ripley's. Could you preach the Ripley's? Yeah, I got to like 10 million before my game started. Yeah, we know all the tricks on Ripley's. So I had number one score on Revenge for Mars at, like, 540 million, and the next score was, like, 120 million. And then on Ripley's I had, like, a 35, and the next one was 12 million. Yeah. And then I had a couple of decent games. So you appeared out of the pit. It was just I. So he was the number one seed by a lot, which was good for top qualifying dollars. Yeah, he didn't play very well. But it set off a bit of a shit storm on the Penn side. which we don't actually read or listen to. I only heard through, you know, secondhand. You're better off. You're totally better off.
    16:50
    Yeah, this 200-thread discussion about Escher sandbagging at APA, which was, you know, ridiculous. And anyone who would have asked me, I would have been happy to tell them, well, actually, I just asked Escher which one he wanted, and he picked the C division. If he had picked A, then I would have been like, okay, great. And if the games in A had been the ones he wanted to play, you know, I was like, he's eight freaking years old. He doesn't know what sandbagging is, and he wouldn't have sandbagged. And, oh, yeah, he didn't win. Yeah. You toured the mansion in the quarterfinals. In the quarterfinals. And it's funny, I didn't even watch him that year. I was on the mic in the A division. Yeah. Because I didn't qualify, but I was in the booth, and Escher came over and, like, would hand me notes. He's like, toured mansion. No, that was an expo. No, it was an expo. They kicked me off of the mic, and I had so many things to say. and I just kept on running him on a piece of paper. That was a different set of you writing notes. But he actually always wants to do the commentary, and he's better than pretty much almost everyone else in terms of game knowledge and watching the game to see what players are actually doing. But for a long time when he was 10 and 11, they didn't want a kid that young to be on the mic. You've gotten to do it a few times since then. Yeah. It's like, oh, I was the world champion. And he's fine. just needs a good co-host like myself to hand off to him well. But again, we digress. That's how it is when talking with us, guys. You can digress all you want. We are good. Alright, so let's get back on track.
    18:24
    And I think the next thing was Pinberg. And Pinberg... Would I qualify? Oh, we'll start on round 10. I had Moschmanstein, Trent Augustine, and Zach Sharp in my round 10 group, and I need five points to qualify. It's funny, I texted my wife, I'm like, he's got no chance. He's done. And I was like, oh, you got this, Desher, no problem. You're playing the machine. Don't worry about Zach Sharp or Mott's room scene. Just play the machines. And I'm like, no, he's not going to do this.
    18:52
    And it was on an awful bank. It was Iron Man, Black Rose, Xenon, and Prospector. Prospector and Iron Man are, I can play. But not with Trent and Zach on Iron Man and Mott, because I know he's good at Black Rose and games in that era. So I was like, I have no chance. Black Rose went down.
    19:16
    Black Rose broke. When it wasn't our time on it. It was like the people behind us broke. I forget what the game concept is. Was it an improvement? Because we don't have a lot of Black Rose experience. Yeah, so we started on Cross Factor, and I took third, which was fine. I was happy with the point. And then we played Xenon and I had 50,000 points going in the ball straight. Uh-oh. And I had a 400 and something thousand ball and took first. Nice. So now I'm back in it and play Ironman. Four points. We always call them points just because they're wins. Wins and losses at Fenberg. But we call them points. Always will. So, and then on Ironman, Zach doesn't play well, and Trent's already out. So he's not really playing with, and I win Ironman, and I have seven, and then I forget what the last game is. But you got in, and so who did you knock out of that group? I knocked out Motts and Trent. Trent and Motts didn't make it through. Yeah, Zach's already in, but. That's it. That's sincere. And you, actually, it's, his member groups are always, when you do well, I occasionally do well, But when he does well, he's always playing with Jorian and Keith. And, you know, they're like the last group to finish each round. It's like, come on, Escher, let's go to dinner now. And I have to wait, you know, for Escher and his little friends to finish their two-hour game on GMA or Scorpion. Oh, my God, Scorpion. I rolled it twice. So, you know, it's tough supporting a kid when he does well. There's a lot of sacrifice. But the finals that year, in round one, I was with Sebastian. Sebastian Bobio? Bobio. Florida guy. You guys know Sebastian?
    21:07
    I do not. He's a pro, like, really high tier player. I'm trying to think. I don't know. Two other people, right? I remember Sebastian because we played Target Alpha, and he beat me by 170 points to advance. And that was the difference to get to the next round. Next round. Wow. Yeah. That's a bad beat. On Target. Did you cry about that? No, I was fine. I was a bit upset. I cried a little.
    21:32
    Well, you were in that year as well. I had skin in the game, man. You were in that round. I know. And you lost the wildfire. Oh, God. Oh, wildfire. Oh, yeah. See, we all have our bad beats. And then I... Okay, come on. We've got to keep this under two hours. I took third in... They just wanted to know how you got into pinball. They didn't want to hear about every result. Well, then I won Papa 20. Keep going, keep going. Oh, wait, and then he won Papa 20. The end.
    22:02
    How was Papa 20? Well, it went really well. Just everything fell into place. In qualifying, I had a huge game on Future Spa. Of all things? I don't like that game, and I'm not good at it. What was your score? Like 1.2 million. Damn. and it was like number nine score or something it was not like number one here's a funny story from that so Escher I'm watching his game on Future Spot and he really needed it because of course this is bumping up now it was on Friday and we were trying to find five games and it was a tough bank and he had this game and he had an amazing survived a lot of bad things and I gave him this giant hug of Raptor words and we were celebrating and Josh Sharp is smugly sitting there And he's like, he just, you know, had a good game. You know, why don't you save that for when he wins Papa? And I was like, wow, Josh, that's, you know, I'm excited for my son. It looks like he's got a good shot at qualifying in the A Division. But then on Sunday, when Escher actually won Papa, I walked up to Josh and I was like, so is it okay if I give him a hug now? No. Yes, and then the, let's see, how many world championships do the Lefkoffs have? Let's count them up. One. It's a one. Let's count up the Shark World Championships. Zach won Pinberg at the time.
    23:31
    Zero. So Lefkoff's one, Shark's zero. Snap. Ooh. Yeah. But, you know, we're always cheering for Josh. Oh, we always. One day. One day he'll win a major. At least take a lead in the final game. I hope so. We're going second. I really hope so. So, yeah. So, Papa 20. That happened. There are some other stories, like with Fathom. I played it four times and it got progressively better each time. It was funny because you did well in Skateball. And, again, we were looking for a fifth game for Escher. And I was like, you know, son, you should play Fathom, even though you've never played it. It's basically Skateball. I had $6 million on Skateball. Yeah, if you can do the thing on Skateball, you can do the exact same thing on Fathom. And I had $3.4 million. So I love it when my coaching comes through like that.
    24:23
    You look great. I'm probably a much better coach than player these days. Well, you are, Dad. Yeah. Of course, we had to play each other, too. You know, that's part people forget that bit.
    24:37
    Trent ruined it. We were going to come first and second in our group, and it was looking great. And I had like a $50 million on that World Poker Tour, and then Trent came and put up like $60 million. Or no, I had $60 and he had $70 on it, which threw me and Escher into a tiebreaker instead of other people in a tiebreaker.
    24:59
    And then it was on X-Men, and I was going to kick his butt because I owed him one, but it didn't work out that way. That was a brutal, brutal X-Men. The middle dropped it down the middle every time. And it was super tilty. There were no rubbers on the outlanes and no ball saved. I remember my very first shot was with the upper flipper, and it was like late or something. I put it like perfect shot to the left outlane. No ball saved, nothing. My first ball was like 7,000 points on X-Men. And then that rocking head was also refounded. I had a good walking day. So I was playing good that day, but it was Escher's day. I'm glad you parlayed. There's nothing worse than losing in a tiebreaker to someone, and then they roll over in the next round. It's like, God, I could have done better than that. But when you lose to the guy in the tiebreaker, and then he goes on to win the tournament, then you feel great. Because A, you can say, oh, I lost, but the guy I lost to won the tournament.
    26:01
    It's like suddenly you become their co-pilot because you want them to do well. They've beaten you. You want them to beat everyone else as well. And that's how it worked out. I just thought, like, I think the last two times I got eliminated in B at Papa, the person who beat me won it. You were in a group of the guy who won it? Yeah, yeah. The one that was the playoff, I lost to Jordan Treadway, who won it. And then I think the year before, whatever other year I was in, I made it in B. Yeah, I was in a tiebreaker on Quicksilver. I can't remember the guy's name he picked it which I was like cool I love Quicksilver yeah you love Quicksilver so he had a good yeah he had like a good first ball the first two balls I had like basically house balls did nothing third ball just started getting in the groove you know where you can feel it like okay it's happening now I'm hitting stuff and then it's just like power out lane like ah oh well oh so yeah and then I then he ended up winning he kept going and he won Wow. So the key is to get into a tiebreaker. Beat me. Beat me and you're going to win. I made it to the B finals twice. One year I lost to a young Canadian fellow, Adam Becker, when he was in B. Becker played great. That was a lot of fun. Jeff Gagnon was in our final four, too. I met Jeff there that year. And then another time I was in B, really excited to hopefully win it, And this kid, Joshua Henderson, won B that year. I only remember it because on the first game in the finals at Corvette, I had like 1.1 and someone else had 1.2, so I was feeling really good with like two points. And Joshua only had like 100 million going into ball three. And then he like, you know, put up 2 billion and won the game and then went on to, we played taxi and he shot left ramp, right ramp and got all the way to the million and just rolled taxi and he was done at eight points. It was over in a heartbeat. So, yeah, B Division was fun. There's a lot of, back in the day, you know, there were a lot of players. B was really competitive. You know, there was only 40 or 50 guys that were willing to try A back then, and the B Division was, it was very competitive. Brutal. So, yeah. You guys got any questions for Escher? what's the one thing that really just clicks about Papa 20 for you? What was the one thing that now looking back at through the whole tournament, many, many times, probably dreaming about it again, like, oh, yes. What was the one thing that really you can bring from that whole experience? Or, you know, one spot that you said, wow, this is a game changer. Jungle Green. Other than the fact that you parked next to me. that was the good luck charm I remember they parked next to me like right that Sunday you guys were sitting in your car yeah did I wave were we nice and cordial I don't remember what it was but I remember you were right next to me when I came in early to get a parking spot it's funny Al we had breakfast with Andre Messingkopf at McDonald's the year he won it ever since it's like yeah we were with Andre the morning that he won it there you go What's the moment, Ezra? EC lane on Jungle Queen in the finals. When it went up and back? Up and back a couple hundred times. That was... You know, the only problem I have with that is that there was a few grumblings of people thinking that he got lucky on Jungle Queen. That's how I play Jungle Queen. I shoot the top targets. Even if they're not there, I still sometimes shoot them to get into the pop-bumpers. Because nothing really bad happened in them. Either you get them into the 5,000s. And you watch Trent and even Bowen, to some extent, they shoot the scoop. They shoot for the 5,000 scoop. That's not correct. Well, we had a jungle queen. We tried it for years. It was like, wow, do I shoot scoops or do I shoot targets? And we finally came to the conclusion that the top targets into the pops to go up ABC is the way. That's the way. It keeps the ball more vertical up and down rather than side to side. So that's a wonderful moment, and I go back and watch it all the time. You know, the video has like 50,000 views. A thousand of them have got to be me personally.
    30:26
    Get up this morning, I think I'm going to watch the POP 20 finals. Yeah. On a World Poker Tour. Let's go back and watch. No, no, no, no, no. You know, and Escher was, after two games, it was 5-4-3-2. Kaley at five, Bowen at four, Trent at three, and Escher at two. And this year in circuit, there's been, with the Papa Finals, I think three other tournaments, including last week in Vancouver, where the two going into the final game ends up winning. Now, Jermaine was the two last week and picked Tommy. And as Raymond said, he was the Cayley in that group. And he took last, and he won 6-5-5-5. Escher, of course, got into the tiebreaker with Bowen at 6. And Cayley had an opportunity to actually make it a three-way tie if he had passed Trent, who had tilted out ball five, double bonus. Cayley just had no luck on that game But of course you were in Robert Gagno group in the quarterfinals which was funny because HBO was filming it It wasn the first one Yeah, so the quarterfinals. So HBO's filming Robert's group for the – I know. That was the HBO thing they did. The real sports. Yeah. And I think it really affected Robert's choices because he picked Jungle Queen, which was – Yeah, I know. So he picked Jungle Queen, going in strong, right? He had a really good ball one, and he didn't have another good ball. And you were in last place on that one. I had a bad ball one, and then I just barely grinded. On ball five, I had max bonus and 5,000. So you won that game. I won at, like, 130,000. So I was already pretty comfortable in that Jungle Queen. Robert took last with 40,000 points. Wow. And then he picked Paragon. And I think he only picked it so that he could show everyone how to tap on Paragon, right? Because he loves to do the rolling tap.
    32:28
    But everybody else knew how to tap, too. You guys probably tap on Paragon, right? Left to right? Oh, yes. You have to. Yeah, absolutely.
    32:37
    And I tap past. You got second. I want to say you got to sixth point. But Robert ended up picking last. So, immediately, it was, you know, they were there to film him in his triumphant return, and unfortunately for him, he had one of those bad rounds where you go 0-0. But, no, it was a good segment. It was a good piece. It was a very good piece, yes. We like Robert. He's a good friend. He's always really nice, and we see him a lot on the West Coast.
    33:05
    He's really nice. Yep, and he's a big fan of Esther, and he was super nice when you won it and came up, and really he was happy for you and congratulated, so that was great. We love the guy, Gus.
    33:16
    And then we'll also ask, X-Men? X-Men in the quarter group. In the quarter group. And that was good that you got a game on that. Because next round, when I had Josh, Jorian, and was it Kaylee in there, too? Because you and Kaylee came out of, God, that's an insane group. Yeah, it is. And you got the tiebreaker with Josh. Yeah, here, I'll explain that. We went through the X-Men, and I took third, and that was all it took. and then I had a huge ball three on my X-Men game the next round to win the game. Oh, yeah, you came back from last. And that got you to the tiebreaker with Josh because of, what was that other game that was in the bank?
    33:57
    It was a freaking, what's it called? See, I blocked it out. What's the body part? Genesis. Oh, God, Genesis in the Papa A finals. And the ramps, you couldn't even hit the ramps. And if you miss the ramp, you're dead. The ball would come back down and go through that giant gap. So you couldn't really shoot the bench. You had to shoot orbits.
    34:19
    And then the little – The pop-up was disabled. Oh, yeah, that's right. And Kaylee got angled. Yeah, Kaylee destroyed that thing. He was on. So Kaylee has made the final four of the first three super majors this year, right? He was the final four of Pinnberg, Papa, and IFPA. He came second to Raymond. The European Pinball Championships, EPC, is, I want to say, coming up maybe sometime in the next month. But if he gets to the Final Four there, that's quite the... Accomplishment, definitely. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. And we've been friends with Kaylee for a long time, and he's also a big Eshers supporter early on, early adopter. made him a special Steve-O shirt just for a super small version so that Esther could fit in and wear his Steve-O shirt. Of course, now he's outgrown it. What do we remember about the final game, the skateball game? Oh, on skateball, I got my $100,000 ball too, which is... It was lit. The scoop was lit for $100,000, for those who don't know. If you drop the side targets twice, it's lit for... You also had your 20 locked in and 2X with one target to go for 3X. It was interesting. Bowen was doing the short plunge, and it was terribly effective because he would get two targets down on the skate to spell skate, but he's giving up multipliers at top. And they stuck over ball. And he was just playing scoop. And if you watched on the replay, Escher shot the ball back up and was playing multipliers on ball one because that's how we play it at home. We have a skate ball.
    35:59
    So I think Escher attacked the game better than Bowen did. Bowen was playing a little defensive, I think. Well, I remember he short-plunged the first ball. Yep. And almost rained. Then the second ball he hard-plunged, and then the third ball he short-plunged again. And he missed everything on the third one, like almost died, and then he never got control on that third ball. He died shortly thereafter when it did this funny little hop to the middle instead of bouncing over. So, yeah, well, you know, there probably aren't very many opportunities to catch a bow and all. It's not a bad game of anything. So if you've got to do it in a tiebreaker from finals of the World Championship, yeah. Yeah, it's a good game. Yeah. That's not bad at all. A win-win. Win-win. So you two would be the only father and son PAPA finalists.
    36:50
    Another fun fact. Yes, I believe that's true. We were also the oldest and youngest finalists. I made the final four of PAPA 18 when I was 48. and because I'm scraping for anything I went and looked and there wasn't anyone older than me making the final four congratulations my age finally counts and I won seniors at Papa 20 nobody wanted to interview me about it aww that's just all my thunder with this little world championship and what's his name Switzerland it'll come to me It's the Alzheimer's, right? It is. Kicking in.
    37:34
    So, Escher, you're ranked now 45th in the world. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. And, Dad, you are 69th. Both are very impressive. Well, you know, Escher, what did he get for Papa? $150,000. I know. He got a ton for that. That little win. Just that little, you know, making it. I'm going to it right now, making sure what the number was exactly. $140,000. Yeah, it's $140,000. Wow. I know. That's hard to compete with. That's very hard. You know, it's funny. Everyone back in the day used to ask us, you know, who's the better player? And up until about a year ago, I would always say, well, you know, Escher's really good, and he's got a lot of potential, but I'm better than him. But now when we count up our world championships and, well, we look at our rankings, it's clearly Escher has surpassed me now. The student has become the master. Yeah, I was going to ask you, Was there an exact moment where you said to yourself, you know, he's better than I am now? Oh, you know, I was saying that a lot. I think actually when he won first juniors, when he won juniors the first year I took him to Papa, qualified first, won it, and I was telling his mom, it's like, he was so much better than me handling the pressure. And, like, he had some ball threes where he was in last place and had to do the thing, and he always did the thing, blew up Wheel of Fortune to win over Joshua Henderson. and ramp Rampage and put it to bed. So I always kind of knew he was better than me. I just, you know, I didn't want him to get a big head about it. That's parenting 101, right? Keep him modest, keep him humble. But if you had offered me a bet of who would win, a pop-up, him or me, I would absolutely bet the farm on the boy. That's good. So at some point, yeah, in this last year or so, I'm officially Escher's dad. Yes. Not Adam. I'm Escher's dad. and handling all that, you know, when the reporters call and nobody wants to talk to me, they all want to talk to the boy, which is great. It's awesome. It's a really cool thing. Yes. And gets you all the girls at high school, right? Or maybe not. I don't know anymore. Well, he did start a new school, he said. Yes. How's that going? It's been going good. That's good. So what's high school like?
    39:52
    How do you describe high school? It's just like middle school, except with more people. Oh, there you go. Yes. That's very profound. Or not, I don't know.
    40:04
    Do all the kids in school know you as a world champion pinball player now? A couple people know. Most of them couldn't care less.
    40:14
    A couple people know. A couple of the kids read the news article. Yeah, you've been in the paper a few times.
    40:22
    We're still waiting on it. There's NBC Nightly News did a piece on Pinnberg. I don't know if you saw them there filming. They interviewed Zach Sharp. They interviewed me and Escher. And it was supposed to have been aired a few times, but with all these hurricanes and earthquakes and everything else going on, it hasn't made – it keeps getting bumped. So hopefully sometime they'll – It might be tomorrow. It could very well be tomorrow night or the next week. So, you know, we like spreading the word, but as you guys know, it's a pretty niche, niche-y hobby we have, especially on the competitive side. Oh, yeah. I think the number of people that care are pretty much the number of people who watch the streams, and that's about, well, with Pinbird, there's 800 people who care because they actually, you know, log in. There's another 100 on the wait list, so let's call that 1,000, and another 50 people who can't make Pinbird. So 1,100, I think, is probably the number of people in the world that would care. Yes. Good answer. I mean, arguably, we're the coolest 1,100 in the world. Of course. Well, there you go, right?
    41:29
    Even though probably a lot of the stream views are probably people streaming it on their phone because it can see better. Yeah, that's true. There's a couple stories I've heard of people watching the – Watching the streams to – Yeah, and I do. You know, I love the angle of it when Escher wins and he comes and runs and jumps into my arms. And I still, I get chills when I watch it. And if I'm ever having a bad day, I will. I'll go back and just watch that. And it's just, it brings a smile to my face that no one can ever take away ever. Like, you know, it's one of those great moments. You'll always remember. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, definitely. It was great to see, actually, on our side. So we were both like, wow, you know. Do you have any great pinball win memories, Bruce?
    42:21
    Yeah. Like when you beat me, probably, at some point? Yes, but the only time I can actually say I can gloat.
    42:28
    What's your best memory, Bruce? Losing to Lyman Sheets. Did you lose well? I lost well. I actually, I was up 2-1 to him in a best of five, and he beat me on Creature from the Black Lagoon, and he, you know Lyman, he never gets excited really. He actually did a fist pump and went, yeah, when he got the super jackpot in the last second. Because he wanted to beat you so bad, Bruce. He hated you. He hated me so much, but, you know. I thought your best moment was after that, and you lost, and then you were in the, what was it? The third player class. Yeah. And you were like down what? 2-0. I was down 2-0. And it won three in a row. And it won three in a row against Levy. Nice. Against Levy. Yeah, Levy's at the Pittsburgh Pinball Open as well. He is. With Waparelli. Yes, Waparelli.
    43:20
    I love that name, Waparelli. It's just perfect for Greg. It's just, you know, we've only known Greg for a couple of years. He's a great guy. The New York crew who travels, they're all really nice guys. Levy's quite the character. Oh, yeah. A lot of fun to chat with. and so long as I don't I got to remember to call him Levy and not Levi and of course Zen is we traded New York got Zen with two players and a cash deal and we actually ended up with Heliana Walter from Sweden in the deal which was awesome because Heliana now, it's funny I always called her Helena but it's pronounced Heliana there in Sweden go figure she married one of our local players Adam Higgins and lives in Denver now. And she's the reigning women's world champion. She won in Vegas. And I won seniors. Escher won Papa. And I was telling Donovan, Donovan Stepp, our best player here in Colorado, he was at IFPA and had a great run as well.
    44:23
    Top eight. Yep, yep. Seventh, I think. I was like, Dino, man, if you can win IFPA, we can hold all five titles in the same state. A feat that will never be duplicated. Oh, I'd actually want juniors, too. So, juniors, seniors, women's, papa, we just didn't get IFPA.
    44:43
    We could adopt Raymond. Raymond could be an honorary Colorado West. Donovan gets all the credit in the world for the entire Colorado scene. He taught me. I met Donovan right when Lions Classic Pinball opened in, like, 2003, 2004. Up until then, you know, everybody just sort of played. It was kind of before the Internet.
    45:04
    And then meeting everyone at this awesome arcade, and I saw Donovan play, and it blew my mind because he was already really good. And he had just gotten back from Papa 7, and he had been Velsito, officially Velsito by Jim Velsito, who I didn't know what that was. But it sounded so intriguing. I went with Donovan the next Papa. That was my very first tournament, Papa 8. and we sort of traveled together and he taught me everything I know and then in turn I taught Esther everything I knew.
    45:36
    Donovan's been in the final four of Papa twice. He took second to Lyman, who you were talking about. And just watching Donovan qualify in the A Division was always a lot of fun.
    45:51
    We'd have 10 or 12 guys in the Denver crew out And he would always, on game five, if he had a good ticket, he would always just blow it up. You know, a lot of us get all, it's happened to me a lot of times where game five is just a disaster, where you're all nervous, you're sweaty. It's like, why is this? Oh, because this is whether I get in or not. And Dino's just, he just listens to his tunes. He's just playing. And when he's in the role, when he's feeling it, he's one of the very best players in the world. And it's so awesome to get to watch him do that all the time. He won our Rocky Mountain Pinball Showdown. He qualified. He got a billion on Walking Dead. And in finals, we played it three rounds, and he never did less than $400 million. And a couple times, we didn't have to play ball three. And he was already at like $600. I was texting Esther in the room. I'm like, Dino's at $200. And it was like $300. He's $400. It's like I'm playing it for a second. Yeah. So, yeah, Donovan sucks. I mean, we certainly don't fear Donovan. Yeah. But it's always great. One of my, you know, when you look at the different areas and the best players, it really helps to have a top quality, like a true world-class player, in your immediate, you know, local tournament scene because it raises everyone. It really does. I see a group of people who are all pretty good, and I'll go and ask them, you know, hey, who's your best player in your region? And they'll say, you know, whatever, Joe Schmo. Their ceiling is lower. They don't know how good they can be because they've never seen it. They don't play with it. Of course, nowadays you can just watch all the overhead videos and watch all the tutorials. But, you know, back in our day, way back in the, you know, before the Internet, you only got better by watching directly players who were better than you. And so to have Donovan live here and meet him, and he's the nicest guy in the world. everybody loves Dino, right? He's just such a laid-back, cool guy. We couldn't have asked for a better teacher. And I still name Donovan as my pinball life coach, and I often call him for pinball life coach advice. Now that I travel with Escher, I don't get to room with Donovan as much as we used to in the old days before Escher was born. That's one of the best things about pinball, I feel, is the friendships and the relationships of people that you meet that go on sometimes for years, even decades. It is. It's a great, and I've heard, you know, grumblings on some pinball scenes where there's a lot of, the asshole ratio is pretty high. And I'm proud to say in Colorado, we have a really, really low asshole to good person. Everyone in Colorado is nice in the scene. It's not a huge scene, but the hundred or so people who play all the regular tournaments are all really good men and women. and they're a lot of fun to hang out with. Nobody gets real aggro. We all take it seriously, but not too seriously. So we've got a great scene out here. And I know you guys, you're East Coast, what, New York, Upper New York, rivalries. It depends. I mean, my scene is my league has, we have three meetings now. I think we had five people show up. We play at a pub or we play two games. We play a road show and a demo man. All right. So that's about it. I mean, we had our first show, which was in a YMCA gymnasium that we filled up with, I can't remember how many, what, 30 games, 20, 30 games? Oh, so like a Rocky Mountain good mother. Oh, wow.
    49:40
    But it went well. I mean. They got to start somewhere, though. Yeah. There was tons of newbies in there, which is good. I mean, people probably said, there's still pinball? Like, this exists? You know, I was spoiled because Lions Classic Pinball is like a 10-minute drive from my house. And I started the league there. Donovan and I, actually, were the original founders of the Mile High Pinball League. And we had 16 players. But, of course, we had a wonderful arcade with 35 games in it, of all eras. And now I've done it for 14 or 15 years. and we never do more than 30 or 35. I hear about these leagues that have hundreds of players. The New England Pinball League has like 300 players and Seattle is insane with the number of players, even at their weeklies. So we've never had those numbers, but we've probably rolled 200 or 300 different people through the Mile High Pinball League.
    50:35
    And a lot of them took us. Nick Zendejas is a product of the Mile High Pinball League. He showed up as an absolute newbie and learned the ropes, sandbagged and beat a bit, became an A player, started going to Papa to see Donovan and look at, you know, Nick's. He had a final eight at Papa. Did great at IFPA this year. He's very streaky. Oh, absolutely. He's one of the streakiest. When he's playing well, it's like, wow, look out. And he doesn't get nervous. But when things are going bad, it's... Oh, he hand grenades. He hand grenades himself. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, he might libate a bit much when things are going bad. Well, he actually won Buffalo, the Classics won. He thought he was out. He was actually on his way to go get beer when the game had a major malfunction. So we had to throw it out, and he had to come back in and took it and won everything. Yeah, that's Classic Zen.
    51:33
    He's a great guy. Oh, he's a great guy. He has the funniest shirts, too. Yeah, I was going to say, did he wear any of those shirts back in Colorado? Oh, yes. That's where it all started.
    51:44
    You have your own. Yeah, we missed that. We still get to see him at lots of different venues, which is good. So it's nice to be able to share him with the community.
    51:57
    We're very happy to have him on the East Coast, definitely. He is an asset for us. All right. Bruce usually asks this question, but you mentioned earlier, like you also have a skateball. What games are in the Lefkoff collection? Jeez. So we have them in a barn, but it's actually a finished barn. The guy we bought this house from ran a business out of it. He made NFL helmets, little mini helmets.
    52:24
    But it's perfectly set up for pinball machines with these long, narrow rooms. But we have the Neil Schatz room, which is all our Bally Williamses.
    52:35
    So what do we got? We got Circus Voltaire, Indiana Jones, going right to left, Attack from Mars, No Good Gophers, Twilight Zone, Dirty Harry, Judge Dredd, Addams Family. So that's the Neil Schatz room. We got the two pinball 2000s. We have both, yes, both Revenge and Star Wars Episode I. Upstairs. There's a CSI and Love CSI.
    53:06
    And then, oh, in 24, I'm going to re-theme. I've got a P-Rock for it, and I've got all the switches, everything mapped out. I just need to retire. Whenever I finish my job and have time, I'm going to definitely rebrand the 24 into a new pin. What would you re-theme it into? It was going to be the Let's Call Family pin because with 24, you've got the case files, and I could have like each – there's four different groups of six lights below, And so there's four of us in the family, and so I was going to have, you know, Mom and Escher's sister Ainsley and me and Escher were each going to have our six panels, and we'll each have a video mode, and we'll each have, you know, something specific for Ainsley. You know, there's a chicken mode because she really loves chickens. She raises chickens here on our farm. But that was, you know, years ago when I started it, and here we are, and I haven't made much progress. So it could turn into anything. I don't know. Yes. If you've got any ideas, send them.
    54:06
    You got any ideas? Yeah, monster trucks versus dinosaurs. Oh, no, Keith Elwin's already doing that. Oh, before or after Golden Girls. I think Golden Girls first and then monster trucks. Well, here's an idea.
    54:17
    Papa championship winners. You have 24 spots then to fill. Oh, yeah, good thinking. You know, I just asked Mark Simon about Papa 21 and what the weekend might be so we could make some arrangements. And there's no date yet. And with the facility still up for sale, they're not really going to run it there in case they end up selling and have to cancel. So hopefully, you know, it's like they could run it in a bathroom of a Ramada Inn. We'd all be happy. Yeah. So hopefully they're going to do it somewhere at some point. But on the other side, if it takes a few years to get Papa going somewhere else, we could live with that, right? I mean, you get to be champion. It's like the USA men's rugby team won the gold medal in the 1932 Olympics. Rugby was no longer, it was dropped from the Olympics after that until the World Cup of Rugby started in 86, maybe 82. U.S. was like, you know, 40 years world champion, which is pretty funny since we're ranked about 24th in the world. But, you know, we could keep calling you world champ for another year. You're going to ask for the banner, though, right? You're going to want that. Oh, hell yes. I ask about the banner every day. I send a text to Doug.
    55:34
    Where's the banner? Show me a picture. Where's the banner? That's better than the trophy. The money is just to see the banner. The trophy is really cool, though.
    55:45
    Everyone wants to come and see the trophy. It is, but when you walk into wherever Pop is going to be and you're going to see that banner. Yeah, and you see all those Keith Elwins and Blyvins and Bowens. Yeah. And Esser. He's got a couple junior banners, too, so they were doing banners for juniors back then as well. So we've got a Stern row as well. We've got Game of Thrones, Avatar, Metallica, then Simpsons, Lord of the Rings, and Ripley's. And then in the back room, the Rick's setup area, it's uncarpeted. I have all our solid state and EMs. The EMs, we've got a Wizard and a Foursquare, which is surprisingly fun. It is.
    56:34
    Old Chicago. Skydive. Skyjump. High hand with Warped Playfield. And I've got a setup, Volley, is still on its side. Xenon and Future Spa. Xenon, Future Spa. Going to solid state. Skateball, Paragon. Evil Knievel. Evil Knievel, Sonic. It's the Kevin and Carol of the Lions Classic Pinball. They had to move a couple games out. Their house was full of games as well, and so we're keeping evil for a while. I think they've forgotten about it. Hopefully they won't listen to this. Damn.
    57:10
    That's okay. They don't listen to it. Nobody listens to the podcast. Yeah, we only got 12 people. We're double digits now. And you call them, right? You give them a call to say, hey, the next one's ready. Let me know what you think. We actually do a bulk email. Oh, you're still on the email. Yeah, we're so old it's not even funny. That's excellent 1992 technology there. Hey, what are you talking about? Wait a second, you talked about RGP before, and I think you're the second or third guest that actually talked about RGP. So what does that tell you? Oh, man, that tells me I'm old.
    57:43
    That's most of our games. So we have a pretty good collection. Very nicely rounded. Yeah, well, we like all eras. We learned that early from Lions Classic Pinball had lots of modern turns as well as, like, their oldest game, Kismet. Oh, God. Kismet has been there the full 14 years or 16 years, however they've been open, and so many games at Lions, so many tournaments have been decided. I played Keith Owen on Kismet, like, three times. Like, everyone has played Keith Owen on Kismet because that's what you take Keith Owen to. Do I want to play Creature with Keith Owen or do I want to play Kismet? Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned Lyman getting the super jackpot on Creature I had, on the Lions Spring Classic, I played Keith in the penultimate match And I also, I was winning on Creature like $40 million to $20 million And then on his ball three, he got a 4X super And, you know, it got to like $700 million And it's like, wow, if you're going to lose, you've got to lose big I like losing big, you know So let's see, let's see, let's ask this question because a lot of people will always answer this. Well, it depends on the opponent. Let's see how you answer this.
    58:51
    You're playing, let's just say you're playing Keith Allen. You can pick any game to play against him, any game. What are you picking?
    59:01
    Are you going to pick against him, or are you going to pick your strength? See, against anyone else except for Keith Allen and Zach Sharp, I'm taking the Game of Thrones. except I can't take Keith Bell on the Game of Thrones. He keeps asking you to try. I tried. He tried at Expo last year. How'd that work out? Ball one, he has to hit the spinner because he's already got a hand in the kinglet. Ball two, plays hand in the kinglet. He does the thing. He had like five billion on ball two and I was still planning to my black water. Yeah. So, you know, it's funny because Keith is kind of a special, he's not a good example. He's the one. Yeah. He is Neo. Ice Keith, because Keith is special. But I've always coached with Escher, and I talk to people, and it's funny, I talk to Raymond about this a lot. I'm really a big proponent of picking to your strength, not your opponent's weakness. I rarely see it successful picking away just to assume that your opponent, A, your assumption might not even be correct. Yeah. because I've heard people make statements about, oh, I didn't pick this game because I know you like it so much, and then I snicker inside because it's like, huh, that's funny. I actually don't like that game at all. I act like I like the game because I act like I like all the games, not to show my hand. But if I'm playing well, then I will absolutely pick to my strength. If I'm not playing well, I'm probably doomed anyway, and I'll pick as much of a coin toss luck fest that I can find. but that's only if I don't feel confident. If I'm feeling confident playing well, I absolutely pick to my strength. And what do you do, Esther? I just pick what I think about.
    60:47
    Against people, I don't pick against them. But again, Keith Allen is a special case. There are games that I will not pick against him. And I will probably take him to an old game that I'm good at. The game that I would probably take him to if I was at Lions would be Space Time, right? Space Time, yeah. I would take him to space time because I know the rules and I know how that one... You know where the super skill shot is. ...the super skill shot is, and I feel like I could beat him on it. That's funny. I took Zach Sharp to space time in the spring classic, and he got $240,000 on it. He rolled it. Suddenly, my $120,000 just didn't look that good.
    61:23
    So, you know, with a lot of those top guys, you know, it really doesn't matter. So it's like go out fighting, you know, pick something you like. It was funny. last year at Expo when Keith didn't qualify, so he started in last place in the finals. And so he had like 13 rounds and everybody took him to the Ironman and WWE wrestling. WWF. E. And he's actually quite good at Ironman. You don't really want to take Keith Owen to Ironman. And he turned up pretty slow in WWE. It was like, oh great, everyone is now taught keynote on how to play WWE. And look at that. He's getting $300-400 million.
    62:08
    So, it's like, even if there's a... So, you know, you can't win with them. The only way to win is not to play. So, what are you picking, Bruce? Against him?
    62:20
    I'm going Freedom. Yeah! Freedom! I like Freedom. I do, too. You need some karma there. When you get it in that scoop and that spinner's spinning, you're going to get double bonus? You're going to like the spinner? You're going to get 500 points. You don't know? Yep. I think that would be a good game against them because I like the spinners. I like the gameplay. And it might go to my benefit. Who knows? How about you, Ron? What are you going for? The problem is his pick and mine were the same. What? Because someone asked Keith Owen this question If you could pick any game any era whatever it is what would you pick And he answered the same thing I would answer Frontier No Oh That probably second Dirty Harry. Oh. He don't want to play. I was on the mic in Indus on the Dirty Harry game where he got six bills. That's probably the, if you want to see, seek it out. I don't know if it's under IE Pinball or where it is. It is the greatest game of Dirty Harry you will ever see played by someone Absolutely Robert wasn't that far behind He got three builds in that game too And the poor other two guys But if you want to see how to play multi-ball At its highest level of coordination On that game, just watch that game It's funny, I completely changed my approach On multi-ball after watching that I did too It was like, oh, okay, I see what you do You get the single jack, come down the left orbit Stage, go to the magnet hold and then do the combo. Rather than trying to do the loop with the quick hit. That's brilliant. I also started doing the just let them drain. Hope they fire out and come down. It's like, oh, that looks easy and it works on mine. A lot of free doubles that way. Absolutely. We do it on ours all the time. Yep, it works on ours. The other great thing that Keith does in that game is on the two ball multi ball, he does this, you play it as a figure eight so you as it comes to the right flipper rather than trying to backhand or do something else you shoot your ransom and then it feeds the left flipper then you shoot it into the warehouse and you just wash, rinse, repeat that little figure eight left to the warehouse feeds the right flipper and in an earlier round like a year before I saw him get over a billion just playing a single warehouse hurry And then the ransoms, they're, God forbid, they're 2X-ing. Yeah, the ransoms are decent points, and that whole circuit is, you know, it's like a 30 million circuit. The ransoms, you get 2X, 3X ransoms. Yeah. Which no one ever seems to know that. I mean, when you go up in the lane, it pays attention. Yeah, and the tutorial Bowen mentions he doesn't understand the ransom rule. The pop bumpers build it up, and then the lane completion will give you a 2X. It starts with 2x bonus and then it goes 2x ransom. Right. It alternates between bonus and ransom doubling. And it'll hold between balls. And so if you've played a multiball, if you've played a multiball recently and you've had a lot of balls in the pops, that ransom is going to be beefy. And if you can, like, go to a playfield promotion and get a 4x, you can do a $200-$300 million ransom easy. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, I don't like your chances against Keith on. Me neither, but I'd love to try it. maybe beforehand you go in and you misalign the flippers a little bit, maybe get that upper flipper a little weak so he can do the Steve Ritchie train. And, yeah, maybe, you know, on any given day, right? He doesn't win, thankfully, every single tournament, only most of them. Well, he's green again. He's beaten, he's never lost a match to anybody, right? He's green across the board on the high end. All green. All green, yes. It's turning into the Keith Elwin tribute show here. It is.
    66:13
    Caller, what's your talk about Keith Elwin? We, and you know, Keith's a good friend of ours, and he's been, in fact, I'm looking right now, we have two great peers, large guard dogs who guard our sheep on the farm, and it's Adelaide, where my wife and I met, and Elwin is the name of our white peers. I'm sure he appreciates that. He does, actually. And, you know, I'll often send him a picture, and it'll be like, here's Dog Elwin. You know, Dog Elwin likes cats, hangs out with cats. And Human Elwin also likes cats. So I told him it would be okay if he got a cat and named it Lefkoff, that he would be okay with that.
    66:54
    See, we can actually start naming our animals after our favorite pinball players. Yeah. Wow. You could. Okay.
    67:01
    I tried to convince my wife that they should be named Elwin and Chats. But I could not sell them on chats as a name for a dog. It is hard. That would have been the ultimate. That would have been really, really cool. Because those are dog chats. Yeah.
    67:19
    That's your fine chat, sonny. Excellent. Sometimes he acts like a 14-year-old kid. I know. Jeez Louise, what the heck's wrong with you?
    67:31
    I know. But you don't act it. You really don't act your age. You actually acted very professional after winning. You know, you got excited, but you came right over, and you shook the second-place guy, that old fart now. You can put him into the record books, you know. He couldn't win the next one. But you did really – you were very professional and very above what most – you see most people. You do see that where – it's actually funny. Some people don't go over and shake people's hands anymore. Really? I see it a lot lately. Like they rage leave? No, they don't rage leave. They're just like, oh, good job, and walk away.
    68:10
    The thing as a parent with Escher, because we see a lot of bad actors, and, you know, a lot of it's in the moment, but our big, big thing here is we take responsibility for our drains because as a youngster, Escher would see these guys and we're, you know, here's the 200 reasons that ball drained and not one of them was my fault. it was the flippers are too weak there's not enough light the it was a house ball you know blah blah blah and it's like no now that we have overhead video we can go back and watch and I'll show you the moment where you screwed up you deserve that drain and I say that a lot when I'm commentating that's a well-deserved brick drain you missed the shot the ball drained that's correct you're you're out of control flailing around and the ball drains and to see people get so angry at that. You know, it's like, wow, we're incredibly privileged to get to enjoy this game of pinball. You've got to enjoy it in the moment, and I've been guilty too because I'm real intense and when the adrenaline's flowing. But try really hard, especially once I realize that Escher is watching and is going to do everything I do. Really try to be a good sport at all times and recognize pinball is a cruel mistress. And the pinball gods are, they love irony. And if they can screw you in the most ironic way, they will. And you just gotta sit back and smile and appreciate it. That we live in a universe that can be this random and you can see shit that happens on a pinball machine you'll never see anywhere else. I had four balls drain out a wheel of fortune four different ways all at once. And it was a perfect moment of synchronicity. It's like, wow, the universe is one. It's truly random. That was awesome. Of course, now I've lost my double-stack multi-ball, but, you know, that's... So we always take... That's the big thing, right? We take responsibility for our game. If we're not playing well, then we own it. And for God's sake, always shake your opponent's hand, and when they win, congratulate them. Even if you think they're not as good as you, it's like in that moment, on that game, they were better than you, no matter what you think about yourself. When I lost the lineman, I actually said, come over here, I want to take a picture of this.
    70:28
    And he was, like, surprised. I'm like, no, no, no, come on. And he actually smiled and everything, and we were great. We had a good time. And guess what? That's the fun part of it. That is the fun part about pinball. It is. And so, you know, and there's some people get a reputation, and if I see someone, like, the thing that really pisses me off is I'm sitting in line at Papa, right? I'm waiting 45 minutes to an hour to play a game because that's the nature of pump and dump now, right? I see a guy rage tilt ball three, you know, and this isn't even a five-game ticket that's been ruined. This is a single game. Get back in line. Do it again. And it's like, man, don't rage tilt and pump the duck. You got the next guy, and now he's going to sit here, and he's going to have to wait an extra two or three minutes while the tilt bob settles, and you look like a fool. and inevitably every time they're always like oh I wasn't rage silting I was trying to save the ball it's like no you weren't there's a camera dumbass I'm watching the ball was gone you rage tilted right and then they're like oh okay sorry you know and then so I try to be nice about it right and point it out it's like we don't do that you know this is you might do that in your league or you know down at the 7-11 or whatever 7-11 isn't to ball machines anymore but you know But in the circuit level events, it's like, God, act like you've been there.
    71:54
    Don't rage stilt. Don't cough and drop the game. Have some consideration, A, for the guy who's lent the game to be in the bank, and B, because of all the people behind you waiting to play, and now you've just rage stilted out. So, you know, take responsibility for your drain. Get back in line. Hear that, Bruce? No more rage stilting. I rage stilt only when I actually. The last time I raged, it was a while ago, but honestly, I plunged three times and got no hits on the flippers. Okay, what game was it? It was Harlem Globetrotters.
    72:34
    Okay, I guess it's within the realm of possibility. Did you get it in the scoop all three times? Yes. So the kickoff in the scoop killed you three times. It actually kicked off the pop bumpers, popped around a little bit. sometimes they hit the spinner and just die off the spinner, the center spinner, and then sometimes they bounce off and right down. I actually looked at it and just went, it's my own game. So I kind of feel like, I was like, give it a little shove. I don't want to have a problem with you, Rachel, in your own game. That's great. It's like, come on, game. I know. It's like, I've brought you here. Show me a bone. What other one, Ron? Penberg. I can't remember which game it was, but I had the five-house ball game. Oh, yeah, she did, yes. Yeah, that was great. It was like an EM. I can't remember. I've never had that happen. All the years I've played. I've never, I literally never touched the ball. Was it Monica? I mean, yeah, it might have been Monica. I just know, and I'm trying, you know, I'm one who doesn't necessarily believe in house balls either. It's like a house ball. I need to plunge differently. I need to plunge harder. I need to plunge easier. I need to hit something else. And I plunged different all five times. and all five times it drained in different areas, and I never hit any of them. No, actually, no, the last time, this fall, I tried a slap save, and I barely got a piece of it on the way down the middle. Yeah, if you got a piece of it, you probably could have saved it. Yeah, well, I should have shoved it more, and I could have tilted and failed with honor. But I've never had that happen before, so that was a great Pinberg moment. You know, and that happens certainly in, what, seven Pinbergs now. There's lots of those moments. Oh, yeah. But, again, it's – and I try – you know, and I've been guilty of it, too, where I have really bad things. For me, it was like I had – all I had to do was shoot the right ramp on ACDC to start a multi-ball that would have brought – you know, gotten me going to come back. And I, you know, missed it like four or five times. You can just feel the ball's out of control. It's like, just give it back to me on the flipper one more time. I swear to the pinball gods, I won't miss it again. And then, of course, you know, you get a sling drain. And it's so frustrating. It's like, wow, I had it on the flipper and I couldn't start multiball.
    74:46
    And it is. It's upsetting in the moment and, you know, you're angry, but at the same time it's deep breath. It's all the greatest place in the world right now. We're having, you know, we're with our friends and we're having this remarkable, we're getting to enjoy this remarkable game that we all love. And we've got to appreciate the moment for what it is. And, yeah, it's pinball, you know. It's going to happen. And embrace it. That's my thing. We just embrace the wonder of it.
    75:21
    And you see a lot like Josh Sharp. He's awesome at that, right? You know he wants that championship so bad. I saw him in, it was, I want to say, yeah, it was Pinberg semifinals back when it was still at the Papa facility. He had, he was going to get to the final four. He had it in bonus on the EEM, and the game tilted like true phantom tilt.
    75:44
    And he had it in bonus. And it was like, oh, my God, like the crowd gasped. And Josh bent down. He picked up his water. He took a drink, and he sat down. And I was like, how? Later on, I was like, how could you do that? How could you just walk away and not just like yell and scream and rage? And he's like, eh, you know, been there, done that. Seen it. Seen it before. Seen it again. So I've always remembered that, and it's like, wow, we really should emulate that. That should be our reaction. But it's a work in progress. We could all improve.
    76:17
    Oh, yeah. The way I do it is I just really don't know what's going on a lot of the time. That's brutal time.
    76:25
    I'm amazed at how many people that's true. It's like, hey, you want to know what score you need to get? No, no, no, don't tell me. I don't want to know. I don't know if I'm to that level, but I'll look at what the score is. But I don't watch my opponents. I'm playing the game. Yep. Unless I get up there and it's like, let's say if it's Ironman, it's like, oh, I only need to hit the ramps to beat this score here, so I'm going to go for that. But most of the time, it's so similar to golf, which I also play. I mean, you're playing the course, you're playing the game. Yep. Golf, though, it's a little more self-evident how your opponents are doing, at least in your group, right? I mean, you see them sitting 20 yards ahead of you or 100 yards ahead of you. But, yes, though, and I'm very much the same when I play. I don't really – I don't like to watch other people play. Whenever I do, you know, you see them get these in lanes or they'll appear to be out of control one-timing the ball a lot, as we say, and it just aggravates me. It's like, oh, my God, I don't want to see this. And so I'll walk away and, you know, think about what I want to do. Pimber might be a little different just because if I'm playing later, like what's the game doing because I have no idea. And, yeah, especially if you're playing something you don't know and you're not familiar with, you really want to get a read on it or at least an idea of what other people are doing. The crazy thing is if you play many frigging Papas and Pinbergs, after a while it's like, oh, the Quicksilver. Well, unless they drastically changed it, I kind of know how it's probably going to play. It's funny. They don't pay for all of us for it. It's so great. I had twice this Pinberg just now that I played the same group that I played the year before, and I improved on both. I learned Quicksilver was actually that group. Judge Dredd, Quicksilver, X-Men.
    78:11
    And what was the fourth one? It was a Sonic, wasn't it? Space Race. Space Race, yeah. And I hate Space Race with all that metal and the clunkiness of it, but by golly, I know how to play it. It's like, okay, no tricks. I'm just flailing away because you can't do tricks on this thing. It'll kill you. And so I had a really good round. I played better on the games where I get to play, which is why I generally do well in Pump and Dump. If I can learn a game and get a chance to play it over and over and then get to play it again in the finals, I'm really comfortable. The whole Pinberg play a game you've never, you know, potentially have never played before, it's a much harder skill, and most players struggle with it at some point. There's only three players who have made the eighth division cut every year. And that does not include Zach Sharp. He missed the cut. That does not include Josh Sharp. He missed the cut. Keith Elwin, Yorian Engelbrexton, and only one other. Probably Jim Belcido, maybe. I forget. But that's it, right? Everyone else has had that pinberg where, you know, bank of games, group of players, you hit a player who's hot that round. You know, it drives you batting. But we've also done, what, seven, eight pinbergs now. You're right. There are very few games I haven't played at least once.
    79:37
    I take last on big game every time. I've done it four years. So if big game's in my group, I know that I'm playing for nine points, not three.
    79:46
    Come on, big game's awesome. I just screamed that. And it's funny because I got to pop the day earlier for circuit finals, back when they did circuit finals there, and I camped out on that big game. It's like, okay, you and me, and I played it like 20 times in terrible games every time. I'm shooting for the spinner, I'm keeping track of everything. I even learned the esoteric, ridiculous card rules and the different banks and the XYZs and all of that. And there's just something about the double flipper. it just I don't like it not a fan in fact I'm gonna I might use that for my uh if we ever get to that segment we will yeah okay really wow Disney big game I love the four flippers because they all have specific shots that are designed yeah it's not like a lot of the games where they just put the four flippers down there in whatever weird arrangement and you're trying to like why did they do this just to make it harder to flip but when you do a slap save and then the upper flipper rejects, uh-uh, no slot save for you, that's annoying. When it clips, when you're cradled on the lower right, and all you want to do is hit that far left spinner, and when you drop the flippers, the upper one just gives the ball a little love tap. A little love tap.
    81:03
    Yeah, those are the things. Oh, I love that. I use that to, like, I do alley passing on that, which you've got to time it. Oh, yeah. You've got to time it a little differently. But you can do alley pass on the upper flippers to get it to the other side. You know, you can do all kinds of crazy stuff with those flippers.
    81:21
    I hate that right out lane. It's so arbitrary, right? Oh, yes. You know, you drain your three, four times in a row, and then, oh, I think I'm going to go in lane to a cradle three times here. Well on the spinner, you know, and for no apparent reason. It's all metal. There's nothing to really work with. There's not a rubber there. So, yeah, I'm not a fan.
    81:42
    You mentioned it, so let's do it. games you like, games you hate. Alright, Esther, you want to go first? So how does this work? Do you just say each? What's a game you love? I love Game of Thrones. Can take it against anyone, except if you fell on his asterisk.
    82:01
    What's your high score on it? 13. Oh my god. Nice, and that was like the first day we got it. Yeah, well, it was the second day we got it. You did the thing. That was when we had post, extra pump. Yeah, it was set factory, so it was pretty easy. I can still get an 8-bill. What's the game you don't like? Last Action Hero. I really don't like those 8-bill games. Really? Really. I've never really had a good experience on Last Action Hero. Really? Yes. That hurts my feelings. Have you seen the movie before? No. I tell them about the movie a lot. How long has it been? The golden ticket. Yeah. That's great. We're going to watch that tomorrow. There you go. Okay. Is it my turn or do you guys go? It's your turn, Dad. Go ahead, Dad. Go by age? No, let's go by age. I think Bruce goes next. No, Ron would be next. Yeah. How old are you, Ron? Younger than Bruce. What?
    83:02
    All right. Game I like. I just played this yesterday. Actually, it's a bowling-themed game. It's OEM. 300. Yeah. I won Turkey Fest. Yeah, that's your own EM tournament in Colorado on 300. Love that game. What I wish they would do is the balls in the back box just actually paint them black so they actually look like bowling balls because they look more like basketballs. You know, you could probably sell a mod on eBay for $200. Probably. Just make the balls in paint black and sell them as a mod. There you go. Yeah. So when you play 300, if you're on the right flipper, do you shoot for the collect or do you shoot for the spinner?
    83:43
    The one I was playing on, I usually do the collect because the spinner is very early. Yeah, it is super early, but that spinner can really build up the bonus quick.
    83:53
    And sometimes it goes into the collect anyway. So that's the one thing I struggle with on that game when I'm on the right and I've got to flip. Do I go into the spinner or do I try and get the collect? I usually just shoot it up to the collect. And I like the weird right lane stuff. I always like that. The waterfall. Yeah. What is it, Scuba? Or one of those other EMs I played had something like that.
    84:16
    Centigrade. That's it. Centigrade. I always like that just when it gets near the end. Okay, which way is it going to go? How am I going to have to do this to save it? Let's see. Game I hate, Pokerino.
    84:31
    Okay, I'm going to have to get my ID to see. It is one of William's super wide-body games. has like four flippers and I only played like once or twice and it was just bad. It's just disgusting. How many did they make? What's the production number on the album? It could have been that many. I don't think I've ever seen one. Does Papa have one? Papa has one. I've never seen it at the time. I've only seen it a couple of times. Like at Allentown show or something? Yeah, like one of those shows. Yep. Yeah, so we don't get shows like that. It's like, this thing is, Because it's wide, wide, like, like, Stellar Wars wide. You know, and it just, it's just boring, slow, the shots are stuck. It's just, it did nothing for me. Excellent. Your turn, Bruce. Game I hate.
    85:23
    South Park. Well, you're not going to, you know, you're not going to. That's what he wants. Nope, just, just boring, boring, boring. repeat.
    85:36
    You know, though, just to give it a little credit, I think it's a well-themed game. Oh, and that's why I'm going to make it my game I like also this week. Because I like the sounds, I like the humor of it, I just hate the shot, you know, just the hit, you know, hit the toilet four times, or hit Cartman four times, and guess what? You're in. You know, you got the multi-wall, you got stuff going on. It's just, ugh, but the sounds and the fart jokes and everything, like that. That's humor. I like that. That actually gets me going for it. And just to start with chefs saying hey kids, and they all say hey chef, and each of their shots light up. I think it's above average. I definitely give it an A- for theme bringing together.
    86:23
    But you're right. Gameplay is an F. It's fun to grind out 20 or 30 Kilkenny's in a row for the victory. God.
    86:36
    Did you ever see the topper, though, with the, this pinball should not be played by anyone or something actually says the topper? I just thought that was funny. I've only seen the topper a couple times. That's awesome. Because that's what the show says, you know, the show is offensive and should not be seen by anyone, so they did that for the topper.
    86:55
    That's pretty funny. So have you used the trick before, picking the same game for both the game you hate and the game you love? Yes. Ron has too yeah I probably heard that I didn't I wasn't aware that that was it's a very rarely used rule but sometimes game you like game you hate will go in that same well Josh Sharp did it he had to steal my gimmick did he do that can he fix my hand he used Demoman he had like Demoman with the claw disabled is a game you like and Demoman with the claw enables game you hate Oh, well played. Yes, that's an excellent point. And then he said Twilight Zone also. Yeah, that was mind-blowing. Yeah, I see it. Twilight Zone. Because in tournaments he hates it.
    87:48
    Well, he lost to Escher in the playoffs to get to the POP of Finals, so excellent. The Trash Talk Invitational. So what, is that a real thing, or are you guys, is it a real thing? Oh, it's a real competition. It's a charity tournament. And are those people really all coming? Because you were popping Raymond up for a while. Oh, no, no, no. Raymond's not. We tried, you know. We tried, but, you know. He was terrible at trash talking. He's not a trash talker. No, no, no. But we tried, and Raymond's a great friend of the show. But it's a real tournament, though. It's going to happen. Is it going to be streamed? I don't know. I think Chuck does stream, so yes. Yeah, Chuck has a streaming rig, so he should be streaming something. And when is it? Because you guys have been talking about it a lot. It's Friday. This Friday? It'll be this Friday. Oh, okay. Yep. So we should plug that. Let's see. It's going to be this Friday, October 6th. Yes.
    88:45
    And we have two Tim Balls. Tim Sexton. Yep. And Scott Wilson from New York. Take on the New England Daz. Okay. Well, so, yeah, we'll look forward to the Trash Talkers invitation. Does it have the rules online somewhere? I think it does on the Facebook page, yes. And there's going to be a new development coming up very soon. Is this a reveal? Well, I could reveal it. The reveal is going to be, hold on, I'm going to go to my post. He's actually going to be selling positions in a tournament. You can actually pay $100 and be the number one seed, and the $100 will go towards the charity. Oh, so it's an auction for seeding. Yes, and also pick your opponent. you can pay money towards. With Bowen in the field, that could be quite valuable.
    89:35
    Or make a world champion play one-handed for $25. Yeah, you're going to lose to Bowen one-handed anyway. I know.
    89:43
    I mean, he's probably 97% as good one-handed as two-handed. But it's all going to good cause. Project Pinball. Project Pinball, yes. Excellent. Well, that's great. That's a good charity fundraiser. So I hope you guys have a lot of fun there. So I still get to do my games that I love. Yes, sir.
    90:03
    So the game I love, I'm going to go with CSI. I think it doesn't get a lot of love. It's a relatively low production number because I think they cut it off after they realized it was a dud. I want to say there was only like 1,100 made and that they stopped the production mid-line. The thing I love about the game is this is a lot of people don't realize this. There are three different multiballs in the game. Yes, sir. And each multiball was programmed by a different programmer because it was done sort of by committee. So Lyman did one of the multiballs. Keith P. Johnson, when he was working at Stern, did another one of the multiballs. And Lonnie Ropp did one of the multiballs. So the exercise for the user at home, and it's ridiculous to think anyone is still listening, but in case you are, figure out which multiball each one of the designers did because you can kind of figure it out by their style.
    91:00
    Josh Sharp told me all this. I didn't know anything about this. And it's actually, it's a great game. It's a game that was in the Papa A Bank in 18, the one year I qualified, and it was on my ticket every time, and I played it. I felt like it played really easy, but everyone else seemed to struggle with it. So I just, I have one. I got a home use only. Somebody sold one, and they had only played it like 100 times. got it for like three grand so I love my home use only CSI, still play it all the time really enjoy it and have still never gotten all three lights to light up in the same game getting the super at microscope and skull super is not that hard but microscope super is one of the hardest super jackpots in all of pinball, you have to get so many intermediate jackpots and there's so many things to do there, it's a very complicated multi-ball, hint hint but anyway And that it has this, you know, this weird that, you know, it wasn't just one person programming it. It was by group, but lots of great programmers. So that's the game I love. Okay. Anybody going to say anything bad about CSI? No, I actually like it. Oh, excellent. There's some great quotes, too, and I'm not a big fan of the show, but there's some really funny quotes. The play field was almost by committee. That was the one that Lawler did most of. Then he quit, and it was finished by Borg. So I don't know how much of it is Luller and how much of it is Borg. There's an upper left flipper, the little flipper. So, you know, that's Luller 101. Yes. So what software do you have on there? Do you have the Papa version? I do have the Papa version. I even, Lyman was playing around with maybe making a few changes, and I have a couple experimental versions. But, yes, you can't do the Kaylee because, of course, the great exploit on – it's all about bonus multiplier on that game. You can get it up to 15x. And if you pre-switch, you can alley pass and finish your 15x before starting a game, which is what Kaylee used to do. And so for the Papa version, any switch immediately validates play field no matter what, which is funny when you have the – it takes the – you can't do the skill shot anymore because there's a switch on the right feed. The switch validates play field, so you've lost your skill shot because the skill shot's supposed to be in the first shot. But you can still get the skill shot if you somehow get it to a flipper without hitting the switch and then bench shot it off the right edge of the center ramp and have it go into the morgue shot without hitting the switch. So it's a true super skill shot now with the new ROM. Nice. which is, I think it was an unexpected side effect, but it's pretty fun that way.
    93:53
    So, games I hate. I love all games, and I've coached Tester whenever people, whenever in interviews they say, hey, what's your favorite game? He always says, oh, the game I'm going to play next.
    94:05
    It's funny, some of them get it, oh, that's really cool, and some are like, well, what game is that?
    94:11
    Yikes. And it's like, okay then. And so we really try to and as my pinball life coach Donovan Stepp has told me that even if you on a game you hate find something about the game you like It doesn matter what it is a spin or shot just find something Because all that negative energy of oh I hate you just dooming yourself to have a bad game And maybe you'll have the greatest game of your life, and suddenly you won't hate it anymore. So I really try not to hate any game. But that said, I'm picking big game. because I have never done a single point in Tinberg in 12 opportunities, an entire round now of big game, and I've never had any luck. And my opponents always seem to, who flip well, always seem to have better outcomes than I do. So clearly it's something I'm doing wrong. But, yeah, yeah, big game for me.
    95:08
    That's funny. Love it. So, Bruce, are you going to try to find more positive things about games now? I will. Like barbed wire? There's got to be something about barbed wire that's good. Ooh, that's a tough one.
    95:23
    See? You know, there's that transfer shot from the lower play field to the upper play field. Yeah, I don't know. I got nothing there. Bad. Cool center toy. Come on. You don't like that? the fat guy thing, whatever that is? No? The big mojo guy, you know, yeah. Like Big Hurt, isn't that a cool glove? Isn't that a cool toy?
    95:49
    They spent a lot of money to make that. I don't think I've ever played Frank Thomas. You're a lucky man. A lucky man. There's my electrician here in Colorado picked up a home use only one, and he was all excited. He made his day.
    96:04
    Yeah, I just fail on that one. He had a list. He sent me a list of games he was interested in. All the others were like A-list. I'm like, oh, you're not going to have any luck. And then I saw Frank Thomas on there. I was like, oh, you might be able to find one of these if you look. And he did. So, you know, he inches up. Yep. Oh, totally.
    96:23
    We're out. We're really digging dialed in. Esper and I go up to Lions. They have one. We will go to Lions specifically and just play a couple games each on it. Ron's had his almost a month and hasn't played one game on it yet. Oh, come on. Why? That's not true. Because I have protectors on the way.
    96:42
    And I got them this week, Bruce, and put them in. Ooh, so you got them added? And I played some games before this podcast. Like right before we started. Does it affect the ability to shoot the start? No. You don't get clicking? No, I made sure it's thin enough where it will not reject out of the phone. I love the Big Bang Rule. It's such a great risk-reward secondary strategy on any of the modes. Yes, yes it is. And then the huge, you've got to go all in and pick up that SIM card because it's just, you know, when you drain with that SIM card lid, it's like, oh, we need a Balden Dictionary term for that because it's such a missed opportunity to multiply the rest of your, especially on ball one. There's no worse drain now than dialed in with your SIM card lid and you drain. It's like, oh, that could have been. I just threw myself off. I got a good one. Hopefully you stopped recording a long time ago. Nope. And that was all just chit-chat. Nope. Oh, good. It's all going to be on there. Oh, good. That's the whole point of the podcast. It's more conversational. It is. We like to have people. And, you know, if you ever want to talk about competitions and competitive pinball, you just give Esther and I a call because we love it and we love talking about it. And we do it all the time, given an opportunity. We would love to have you on again because I enjoyed myself. Hello Well that's nice to say Oh that's my daughter getting I gotta get them fed It's getting late No problem I thought it was Elwin knocking stuff over Possibly No Elwin's out He's chewing on a bone out there We'll end on this story So this guy is opening an arcade in Tennessee He Facebook friended me And told me that he was opening this arcade And he would like to have a That he had this poster made of Escher And he would like He wanted my permission to have the poster up in his arcade to show kids that, you know, hey, even kids play pinball, and this kid won the world championship. And I said, wow, that's really, really cool. If you send me a copy of the poster, I'll get Escher to sign it for you. And he did, and he got an extra one made, so Escher has one in his room. And Escher signed the poster, and I took a picture of it, and we mailed it back to him. And so that's, you know, 30 seconds of fame there. So there's somewhere, there's an arcade somewhere in Tennessee with a picture of Papa 20 champion Escher Lefkoff signed. What did you say on the signature? Do you remember? I have no idea. You don't remember what you said? Good luck with your arcade. Keep on flipping.
    99:16
    You pinball wizard. Pinball wizard. That's the original one. Well, we thank you for your time. You guys have been great. We'll see what the response is, but I suspect we won't be allowed back on. You watch. Steve Bowden will post on Fun With Bonus this all the time. All right. We'll see whether he actually adds this one along because not just anyone, it's a Fun With Bonus mention. No, and he loves when we talk about tournaments.
    99:49
    Steve gave us a ride at Pinberg. We were in Steve's car from the place where you had to pre-register the night before at the new, what's that place called? The cafe with the pinball machines that Doug and Elizabeth kicked at. We went there straight from the airport, and then Steve was kind enough to give us a ride to the West End. So we got to hang in his car in the Balmobile.
    100:15
    Very French. Steve really travels well, loads up for the tournament. So it was cool to see the inside of his car. That's our brush with greatness there. We got to be in Steve Dalton's car. Always be cashing.
    100:30
    ABC, baby. Well, thank you again, guys. All right. Hey, thanks. It's been fun. Yeah, sure. Thank you again. We'll see you at Expo, yeah? Not me. Ron, you'll see. Yeah, I'll be there. All right. Well, I'll say hi to Ron. How about Indisc? What's your next tournament, Bruce? Oh, God. I'm actually opening a bar, so I am, like, tapped out now. So you'll be having pins at the bar? Yes, sir. So you'll be having a circuit-level tournament there.
    101:01
    I would love, you know, not circuit-level, but I help out with the Buffalo Pinball one all the time. Oh, okay, yep. You might try and make it up there sometime. It's a good time. It's a lot of balls from Colorado. Yeah, the place they have up there is 62 games. Yeah, it looks really cool, and everyone seems to really like it up there. Where else can you play a Star Wars and a Star Wars LE? Yeah, in the same building. In the same building. Not around here, I'll take that. Yeah.
    101:27
    Well, thank you again, guys. You have a great night. Yep, you too. We'll let you go, and we'll stay on and do our plugs. All right. Bye. At Pinball News, or News of the Week, we have a definite reveal for Jersey Jack Pinball at Expo.
    101:49
    Yep, the Buffalo guys are going to be doing the reveal. Kevin Manning and Nick Lane will be streaming on Twitch on their channel, Buffalo Pinball. So check them out. We get to see the game firsthand in better quality than we did last year. That won't be hard. No, it will not. Periscope sucks. Periscope sucked, yeah. Mm-hmm. Nothing, so do you think Stern is going to have Batman 66 code? Yes. They've already talked about it today. Oh, okay. Batman 66 code and Star Wars with not one but two video modes. Oh, lovely. I'm sure you are so happy about that. Shoot me right in the old blank. And wait, multipliers are going to work on the video modes.
    102:37
    Oh, white. Stop. Stop with this freaking video mode crap. The game sucks. It sucks. Wow. It sucks. I want to play Ghostbusters more. Whoa. I wouldn't go that far. I will. All right. Wow. I am a big Steve Ritchie fan, and the past two games have blown chunks.
    103:02
    And it's not Steve's designs. Game of Thrones is okay. But the rules with Dwight, it's just killing me lately. I liked him in the past.
    103:14
    He's just killing it with a stupid. I don't want to play a video game. Okay. Bruce has made his views very clear. You've been stated on this podcast.
    103:27
    They're not all the same. They're all Bruce's. Alien. Yes. New software. New code update. And also, Total Nuclear Annihilation got a code update also. Well, the thing is, Total Nuclear Annihilation got a code update to what? One point? It was already at one point, whatever. It's 1.03. Yeah, Alien's been out for... Years? Yeah, and it's finally up to 1.0. So we're finally out of beta code.
    103:55
    Congratulations. Well, run. That's the big thing. I actually drove 754 miles yesterday. You did? I did. I packed up my Sea Witch at 4 in the morning, drove down to Middletown, New York, met Stephanie, our own pinball princess, sold her my first Sea Witch,
    104:19
    taught her some things. By the time I was two hours away, she had her first couple of problems, which we figured out, all of them. And then about four hours, she killed the left flipper. She killed it? You're blaming her? Well, you know, she just kept on playing it and playing it and playing it. She played it too much. That was the problem. That's the problem. But she killed the left flipper. So we'll continue the story. I was driving along, and I'm like, okay, what's it doing? It's stuck up. I'm like, okay, turn off the power. It's still stuck up. Okay, it's probably mechanical. Let's see if it's bound up. She's like, it's too hot to touch. I'm like, hmm.
    104:57
    Okay, let it cool down, see what happens. She's like, it still won't move. Okay. I'm starting to think, like, what can I do? And then 10 minutes later, he's like, oh, Ron just walked in.
    105:08
    My buddy Ron came in and tried to save the day. Tried to save the day. Well, I just saw on Facebook that she got the game. I totally forgot this was happening.
    105:19
    She looked so happy. And then they had a post that, you know, it was delivered to Howard's. Yes, it was. Orange County Pinball Guys. and they were going to be around until 10 p.m. if anyone wanted to come up and play the new game.
    105:37
    And I'm at work reading this and I go, eh, what the hell? So, of course, then I didn't get out when I wanted to, so I got out late. I walk, I get there, I'm walking up and I hear people like, what is that? Did you hear that? I'm wondering, it could be a bear.
    105:55
    I got these in the booties. Yeah, so I walked through the door and stepped like, run! Help me! So, yeah, the flipper was quite foobarred. So what actually happened? Did it melt? Yeah, it heated up to the point where the coil sleeve couldn't come out. So Howard had another Bally flipper coil. Wasn't the same one, but it would do for now. He soldered that in And that lasted a little bit Then that died Because there was an actual issue with the coil itself Like if you bent One of the tabs It would work again Some kind of loose connection or break there So he was Howard was just going to go to the York show The next day and just get the right coil That was the only thing I mean the one flipper was sticking a little It needs to be looked at Other than that it was working so she just you got immediate um repair mode repair mode yeah so i was coming over there just to check you know just play some games and it's like oh i'm in repair mode yeah that happens everyone though so i drove down and i picked up city witch number two after picking up i picked up a lot of parts yesterday i picked up two bally coin doors and i picked up a hot hand coin door and I picked up some Demolition Man handles. You interested in that? Extra set. You can go get your one set chromed. No.
    107:28
    I'm sorry. I don't do that. They're fine. I know. I'm going to actually sell them on Pinside and see if anybody needs them. So then I drove from – so yesterday I drove from Middletown, New York, East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, to York, Pennsylvania, and then back to Rochester. I didn't get home until 10.30 last night. I left at 4 in the morning.
    107:51
    754 miles, but I have another Sea Witch, and unfortunately I have to drill out both locks on it, and I have to get head bolts for it because I had none of that. And I don't even know if it works. You don't even know if it works. Okay. Yep. Does it have a ground prime? Probably not. I requested it that way. I requested it. I'm so happy the one you sold to Stephanie actually had a ground prong on it. I did it because I knew it. I heard it from you. So otherwise we wouldn't have done it? Of course not. And you would have let poor Stephanie get shocked? Yes. No, she has to have two machines to actually get shocked. No, you don't. She only has one. No, you don't. You can get a good tingle. You can get a good tingle even if you're not touching two machines. Oh, God. Wussies, all you wussies. So what do you think? I stopped at the York show to grab the game from one of the vendors inside. I spent the total amount of time at the York show, 15 minutes. Yeah, did you even talk to Scott who was there? Nope, didn't see him. Our very own Scott. Did CJT.
    108:52
    I saw a couple people. Hi, how you doing? That's it. Looked at TNA for about two minutes. Went, looks cool, looks cool. The line was too long. Kept on moving, grabbed my game, threw it in the car, and left. Wow. Yep. I would have stayed longer, but oh well. Yeah. I was driving. I was already on the road for 12 hours by then. I still had a five-hour trip back. You need help, Bruce. No, I don't. That was a totally normal weekend for me. Totally normal weekend. 700 miles of driving for two pinball machines. I got 31 miles to the gallon.
    109:27
    Wow, that's wonderful, Bruce. See? I'm looking at the perks. Hopefully the Sea Witch is a little nicer. I don't even know. I didn't really even look at it. Wait a minute. You bought a Sea Witch you didn't even look at? No, you know me. The back glass is peeling on the bottom, so I'll have to get a back glass from John Greatwich. But the play field's a little nicer. The back glass is a little worse. The cabinet's a little worse. But it's a sea witch. You can't go wrong with a sea witch.
    109:52
    Okay. I have nothing to add. You can't go wrong with it. No, I can't go wrong. So we did get to play one or two games of sea witch. We had a brief period where the left flipper was working. Okay, and? And it's Sea Witch. It's a Sea Witch.
    110:13
    Yeah, then we played some Memory Lays, some 300, some Flash, some, what else, Grand Prix. Grand Prix, yeah. And Aztec. I was there at almost 11, of course. Yeah, I was supposed to be till 10, and I got home late like an idiot. But it's a fun time, man. Fun time with the pinball princess. Yep.
    110:38
    And Hugh Hefner died this week. Yes, he did. Did you know he had pinball machines made after him? Yeah, three of them. Three, I think. Three and almost four. Yes, almost four. That was going to be the Pinball 2000 title after Wizard Live. Yep, number four. Dear God, what would that have been like? That would have been interesting.
    111:02
    And Monty Hall just died a few minutes ago. Oh, let's make a deal. 96. Oh, okay. He's had a good life. Yeah, he had a good life. He lived well into the bonus round, as I like to say. Yes. He picked door number two this time and got whammoed or boinked. That's terrible. I guess he picked the wrong door. Oh.
    111:28
    Mail. We got a lot of messages. We do? We do. Oh, the mail ball bag. Well, first, we got the picture from the Bruce-a-gon. The Bruce-a-gon. One of our listeners, Ryan Singh from Australia, from the Head to Head podcast. He's in the running for those critical hit decks. And I think I'm going to extend it, not to the 8th now, I'm going to go to the 15th. Well, another one just came in. Oh, it did? You haven't seen it yet. Oh, boy, I haven't because I just... I'm the woman again. All right. I see.
    112:03
    Let's just say it's a future spa, and it has me, you, Tim Sexton, and George Takaya. Oh, this could be a new home run. I think it may be a home run. We'll have to see. Bruce hasn't seen it yet. I have not seen it yet. Now you're going to get my true live reaction. Oh, I didn't realize what he did with the score displays. That takes it to a different level. Okay, here we go.
    112:29
    George is looking pretty buff there. Yeah, George is broiding up big time. Wow. And Tim, boy, Tim. He is ready for the trash talker invitational, man. He's going to kick anyone's ass. He is going to. Slam, tilt, oh my, and then rant.
    112:48
    Wow, I think this is going to be in the running full time. Look at my hair. Look at my gorgeous hair I have. They love that expression on your face. They keep using that same one.
    113:05
    It's classic. This is good. Can't wait to post this. This is really good. Who brought this one in? Casey. Casey, great job. Good job, Casey.
    113:18
    And he is really the guest unofficial third host as well. I will agree. That actually gave you bonus kudo points. 10 sacks then he's talking about. Yes, and everyone knows you've got to add George to Kai. Oh, my.
    113:33
    And then did you see your picture, Ron, when you turned 75? Yes. There's an old guy with a cornholio tattoo on his arm. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Okay. That'd be very cool. And I fucked up a couple weeks ago. Again? Okay. Again. Remember when I said quit talking and start talking? Yes. That does not come from 8-Ball Deluxe.
    113:57
    What does that come from? A Gottlieb. Really? Yes, it's Q-Ball Wizard. No, it's, wait a minute. No, it's in 8-Ball Deluxe. No, it says Chalk Up.
    114:15
    No, it says in 8-Ball Champ, though. I know, in 8-Ball Champ it does. Yeah. But we're talking about Deluxe. And I said in the, when we were describing the class of 81 pinball machines, I said, quit talking and start chalking. Hmm. Okay. Actually from Q-Ball Wizard. No, it's from 8-Ball Champ. Q-Ball Wizard is well after 8-Ball Champ. I know that. But that's where I got the quote from. The quote actually came, it did not come from 8-Ball Deluxe. So I failed on that one. You failed with a Gottlieb. Yeah. Oh, God. It's like poison. And Brett Goodwin talked about George Sakai is going to Australia, everyone.
    114:58
    He's going to play Thunderbirds. Yeah, he's going to play Thunderbirds. He defected to the Head to Head podcast. Oh, never leave Australia now. Oh, my. That was from Brett.
    115:11
    Steve Bowden, we must give a big shout-out for, for his picture for the, when we had our battle with the Class of 80 and Class of 81, Stern Valley. He put us as the family feud, and George Sakai was overlooking us up top. Did you notice I was ahead? Yeah, but it was wrong because, you know, we were talking with the class of 81. Well, no, we did 82. I know, but 81 was first, and, you know, I was ahead in the first place. Whatever, whatever.
    115:38
    And then Derek Carmanian talked about weather stripping is a good replacement for the target backing. What nontraditional items has Ron and Bruce used in a game? Well, I actually had to use gasketing from one of our products I used to make in the old, like, 2000s. It's a thinner bar gasket. But two of them equaled one of our normal bar gaskets for the lockdown bars. So I got about ten boxes of that, and I'm down to, like, seven boxes now, and I keep on replacing all my bar gaskets. What's a bar gasket? Do you mean the beer seal? Beer seal, bar gasket. Oh, okay. That's actually what the box calls it, a bar gasket. Okay. So, yes. I use weather stripping actually to prevent back glass rattle. Good idea.
    116:28
    I think that's it. Everyone was laughing at me doing only my 15 minutes at the York show. I was laughing at you. Hey. So, let's see. We have one email, and it pertains to your little trip. What trip would that be? You're a sea witch. You're 754 miles of sea witch fun.
    116:51
    It's from the Pinball Princess. What's the title? It says, Squee-Witch. Hail Slam Tilt Podcast.
    117:03
    Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you to Bruce, as I am sure he has said already, probably at least twice, helping me get my first ever pinball machine. The saga of getting that sea witch has to be one of my new favorite stories, closely seconded by the related story of how it was sea witch number one of two sea witches acquired in a span of 30 minutes. Because, Bruce, I'm still slightly in shock that she's mine. A good shock, mind you.
    117:33
    And thank you to both of you for your help with her. As you both quite aware, I learned just how true it is that being the proud owner of a pinball machine means having to prepare for the possibility of something going wrong every half hour or so. That's what happens when you have a 1981 pinball machine. Well, 1980, yes.
    117:52
    That was, you know, not used for a while. I did redo a lot of repairs on it, you know, some connectors, and I actually replaced the whole flipper assembly, but the other side flipper assembly just went, but we'll find out in a few minutes. From the innocuous, well, that's odd, to the, oh, lovely, I smell burning. You both were very patient and helpful, both remotely and in person. I would be remiss to not also thank the guys of the Orange County Pinball Club. Without guys like Howard and JT, I would, for one, still think a coil sleeve was the paper wrapper around the coil. And two, be short a working coil. Shout out to Valley and Stern for having the same parts. You'll be liking that. Oh, you'll love that. Honestly, all of you highlight how wonderful the pinball community can be. And I'm thankful that people are willing to help out. I am so stoked to play my very own sea witch. Learning to fix her and take care of her on my own is a little intimidating. Precious. Precious. I'll admit, but I'm only intimidated by my own inexperience. I am at present determined to learn how she works and make her work as well as I can. It will probably take me a long time to be comfortable with, say, disassembling the drop targets, but I am confident that in time I will be able to solder smoothly and handle any problem that comes my way on my own. With a sturdy step stool, of course. Steps a little, uh... Vertically challenged? Yeah, height compartment, yes. Honestly, I may as well end my letter here, unless you literally want 2,000 words about how awesome Sea Witch is. I love her so much, it's kind of hard for me to put it into words. Looking forward to seeing if one of you guys joins Timmy in representing the Slant Hill Podcast and me in representing New York at the Trash Talker. I'm going to try. Yes, he's going to try. Unfortunately, I'm working, and it's seven hours from here for me. It's three hours for me. Player 31915.
    119:48
    P.S. 1978 Williams vs. Gottlieb, right? Based on my own limited experience, not that it's a blowout. Oh, boy, what great games. But Gottlieb may have this one, in my opinion. I don't know any of these Williams outside of Phoenix, which is, actually, no. Williams made disco fever. It loses. Good day, sir. At least close encounters of the third kind and dragon are, oh, wait. I'm not a fan of those either. Final opinion. The winner is Stern because stars. Of course. So thank you, staff.
    120:22
    I'm still looking for centaur trades. Come on. I'm looking for that cheetah. Cheetah. So, anybody wants the cheetah? There was some good deals down at York, though, I saw. There was a countdown for $6.50. I would have grabbed that. Scott was playing it. It looked really nice. But I was up there for him. Scott was playing that, but you didn't talk to him? No, I saw it in the picture. Oh, in the picture. Okay. Scott did not like Star Wars. I don't blame him. He gave it the big thumbs down. Stinker. He had his nose pinched over. There's a pinch over his nose. And I have to agree with him. I played it again today in our selfie league. honestly, it's a game, it's not even fun. Like, most games I'll go, I'll play like, oh, I had a great time. Even if I don't make my shots, I enjoyed it. Star Wars, I'm sitting there going, why do I have to put another four quarters in this thing? No. I don't hate it as much as you do, but I don't hate most things as much as you do. You have a lot of unnatural hate. Yep, but I like Dialed In, and I like TNA, the look of it. I didn't play it, but I like the look of it. It did look pretty awesome, the artwork. Except for the side art. I don't mind the side art. I like it. See, I know what they were going for. They were going for a Valley Midway, mid-'80s, you know, generic side art with the pinball on it. I get it. But there were some Valley Midway games that had side art, like Heavy Metal Meltdown. Yep. I think they could have put some side art on there. Are you ready to pay some bills? I'm ready to pay some bills. Don't forget our contest. Put our face. Mine or Ron's. Or both. Or both in a pinball-related picture. You can post them on our Facebook page, or you can email them to us.
    122:08
    And one more thing, the bar website is now up and running. And what would that be, Bruce? www.thesilverballsaloon.com Again, that's www.thesilverballsaloon.com www.pinballlifter.com lifters, tilters, helpers. You can move a dialed-in with it. Ask Ron. Yeah, it works just fine. Come check out my website. We do ship all over the United States and Canada. Eh? Very bad accent. Very good. Yep. Use your brain, not your back. Lift your pinball machine with ease. Don't forget pinball star Joe Newhart. He is right now probably cleaning up from York. He's selling TNAs. He is selling Houdini pinball. He's also selling all the Spooky Line. And he is selling Jersey Jack with the new dialed in. And Ron got his own Jersey Jack from him. So definitely check them out. He's a great person to deal with. Also, Flipper Fidelity, Mike Pupo. He sells the best sound systems for your pinball machines. He also sells brand new Stern Inbox. and he also sells Stern factory authorized mods. Check him out at flipperfidelity.com. And don't forget, we get no money for this. We do it out of the goodness of our heart. That's our good karma. And don't forget to check out members of the Slam Crew, such as Steve Bowden, Fun with Bonus, Tim Saxton. Just look for Tim Balls on YouTube and Twitch. We can be reached at slamtiltpodcast at gmail.com. please send correspondence there. And hate mail. And hate mail to Bruce, yes. Which we haven't gotten lately. Yeah, come on. Where's the hate? I've been pretty good. People are loving me, I think, lately. That's because I'm editing all the really offensive stuff you say out. Yeah. We can be reached on Facebook. Just search for Slamtail Podcast. We're also on YouTube. Just search for Slamtail Podcast. We're also on Twitch. And this has been Episode 63, Revenge of the Pink Panther. Wait, wait. Isn't that my line? I'm actually going to try to take over the hosting duties once in a while.
    124:24
    Hey. Anarchy. Yes. Dissension among the two hosts. The ranks. I wonder if that would make it more interesting. We, like, hate each other and just bust each other every show. Unfortunately, I can't do that because you are my brother. Oh.
    124:43
    So thanks, everybody, for listening to this week's podcast. Thank you, Escher. And thank you, uh... Escher's dad. Say goodbye, Bruce. Bye, Brett Goodwin.
    125:19
    Oh my