Episode 980: "The Damian List"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·22m 33s·analyzed·Aug 2, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Haggus Pinball creditor list analysis reveals $1M AUD debt; host calls for accountability and market caution.

Summary

Host of Canadian Pinball Podcast (identified as Kaneda) analyzes recently-released Haggus Pinball Limited creditor and liquidation documents, detailing how the company lost approximately $1M AUD and examining the financial decisions of founders Damian Hardin and Marty Robbins. The host criticizes both founders and podcaster Jeff Teolis for operating while insolvent, advocates for customer accountability and market discipline, and warns against pre-ordering from unproven manufacturers.

Key Claims

Haggus Pinball Limited owed approximately $1 million AUD to creditors across banks, distributors, and individuals who lost money on the company
high confidence · Kaneda (Canadian Pinball Podcast) discussing publicly available liquidation documents
Damian Hardin and his company (Hardco) appear to have extracted roughly $1M AUD from Haggus Pinball, either through salary or asset purchases
medium confidence · Kaneda analyzing creditor list; explicitly notes uncertainty about what the figures represent
Damian Hardin paid himself a substantial salary (potentially $621,000) while the company was insolvent
medium confidence · Kaneda reading creditor list; notes uncertainty about whether this was salary or other compensation
Haggus Pinball was trading while insolvent when promoting Centaur deposits and new orders
medium confidence · Kaneda's inference from business practices; notes unsure about legality in Australia/US
Rick at Planetary Pinball is owed $56,729 AUD as a creditor, raising questions about licensing royalty arrangements
high confidence · Kaneda reading liquidation creditor list
Aaron at Fast Pinball was smart to get paid before supplying Haggus Pinball, as he does not appear on the creditor list
medium confidence · Kaneda's inference from absence of Fast Pinball on creditor list
Marty Robbins appeared on podcasts (including 'The Last Arcade' with Jeff Teolis) promoting continued investment in Haggus while knowing the company was insolvent
medium confidence · Kaneda's analysis of Marty's public statements and creditor list timeline
Lior from Art of Pinball has been confirmed alive but has not properly communicated with customers despite personal hardship
high confidence · Kaneda reporting on recent developments; Lior posted within past 24 hours

Notable Quotes

“There is no easier way to lose money, to turn a million dollars into a thousand dollars, than to start an American Pinball manufacturing company.”
Kaneda (Canadian Pinball Podcast) @ ~00:03:00 — Core thesis about startup manufacturing risk in pinball; reflects host's recurring theme
“He jumped way too far ahead of his own abilities... It's the monthly cost. And unless you're making games every single month, everybody else has to get paid.”
Kaneda @ ~00:04:30 — Identifies root cause of Haggus failure: overhead management failure, not product design
“You are now an investor in a startup. And the risk level, if you do that, is through the freakin' roof.”
Kaneda @ ~00:18:00 — Direct warning to community about pre-ordering from unproven manufacturers; framing of risk
“That to me is really the moment of when you find out what's in the hearts of men. Because if you know you're wrong and you know things are over and then go and use your credibility and your reputation to convince people to stay in on the journey... you did that when you knew you were trading while insolvent.”
Kaneda @ ~00:20:30 — Moral judgment of Marty Robbins for continued promotion despite insolvency knowledge
“We're like babies. I'm raising two little children. That's how they behave... We are supposed to be the adults in the world.”
Kaneda @ ~00:24:00 — Host's criticism of community impatience and willingness to pre-order; defines cultural problem
“If you were not impatient and you just waited for games to be made and put in a box, you would not have lost any money.”
Kaneda @ ~00:24:30 — Core market discipline principle; frames customer loss prevention strategy
“I did it when it wasn't popular and that's all I want to say everybody.”
Kaneda @ ~00:28:00 — Host claims credit for early Haggus criticism; establishes credibility on issue

Entities

Haggus Pinball LimitedcompanyKanedapersonDamian HardinpersonMarty Robbinsperson Ryan CpersonLiorpersonJeff Teolisperson Rick

Signals

?
business_signal: Haggus Pinball Limited entered liquidation with ~$1M AUD in outstanding debt to creditors; founder compensation and overhead mismanagement identified as root cause
high · Public creditor list analysis; Damian Hardin/Hardco owed ~$1M AUD; monthly overhead unsustainable without consistent production
?
regulatory_signal: Host alleges Haggus was trading while insolvent when promoting Centaur pre-orders; questions legality in Australia/US
medium · Timeline analysis of creditor list and promotion activities; host explicitly states uncertainty about legal framework
?
industry_signal: Host identifies recurring pattern in pinball manufacturing startups: non-manufacturing founders underestimate overhead costs and jump too far ahead of production capacity
high · Kaneda's recurring theme; comparison to Spooky Pinball's organic growth strategy vs. Haggus's overextension
~
sentiment_shift: Host expresses concern that Haggus failure is damaging pinball hobby's reputation and reducing enthusiasm across community
high · Direct statement: 'it does remove a lot of the enthusiasm for the hobby because it does start to paint us as a community as a bunch of fools'
$
market_signal: Host strongly advocates against pre-ordering from unproven manufacturers; frames pre-payment as startup equity investment with high risk
high · Extended argument recommending buying from established manufacturers instead; 'You are now an investor in a startup. And the risk level... is through the freakin' roof.'

Topics

Haggus Pinball Limited failure and financial detailsprimaryStartup pinball manufacturing risk and overhead managementprimaryCommunity accountability for executives and media figuresprimaryConsumer behavior: pre-ordering risk and impatience in the pinball communityprimaryArt of Pinball communication and customer service failuressecondaryComparison of established manufacturers vs. startupssecondaryMedieval Madness rerun by CGCmentionedIndustry gossip and community mystery (Ryan C employment)mentioned

Sentiment

negative(-0.85)— Host is angry and disappointed with Haggus founders and complicit media figures; frustrated with community impatience; uses moral language ('hearts of men,' 'babies') to express disapproval. Some neutral/informational tone when reading creditor list, but underlying sentiment is clearly critical. Slight positive note about reliable manufacturers (Stern, JJP, Spooky, CGC, Dutch Pinball) and Barrels of Fun's potential, but overwhelmingly critical of startup culture.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.068

The first, the damndest, the pinnest of the world! Come on, come on, money for the money! Come on, come on, listen to the money talk! Yase, yase, yase, yase, yase, yase, yase, yase, yase, ya! Welcome everybody to Canadian Pinball Podcast, the one pinball podcast that has made more money than Haggis Pinball Limited. We are looking at right now what I want to just hashtag no words. Remember the no words video where this company was convincing everybody they were making games, they were trying to convince everybody if you paid in full you were going to get your game. And now we know how deep the rabbit hole goes. We don't just know that. We now know the home addresses of everyone who lost money on this company. We've got the listing of the creditors For haggis pinball, I'm assuming this was all part of liquidation. And we also know how much is owed to each one of these creditors and everyone from the banks, everyone from the distributors, everyone from the personal people out there in the world that had faith in Damian and Marty and Gave this company money. Now look here's the thing. I've been saying this for years. You know how I feel about this whole thing. There is no easier way to lose money, to turn a million dollars into a thousand dollars, than to start a pinball manufacturing company. And we've seen this so many times, I'm not sure really what's different this time. It's always the same formula. You get a guy who has good intentions. You get someone who's had some success in the world of business, usually not in the world of manufacturing. And so that person gets bit by the pinball bug. And then they see the amount of money that is in the pinball hobby, which is not insignificant for a tiny, tiny little subculture. And they think to themselves, I could do this. I could start a pinball company and make a few million dollars. How hard could it be? And what none of them realize is that in the world of manufacturing, that is where the wheels The idea the hidden costs associated with Manufacturing because they've never worked for a manufacturing company ever They have no idea all the different things that can go wrong and we know in the world of pinball They will go wrong so Damian like scratch builds in his garage a few kelts machines and instead of Instead of slowly growing his company the way Spooky Pinball grew its company, he jumped way too far ahead of his own abilities. He jumped way too far ahead and took on way too much overhead having no idea how to maintain that overhead because that's really what sinks these companies. It's the monthly cost. And unless you're making games every single month, everybody else has to get paid. Form desenes in the backbox presenting cebeit Mister Pinball, Out two million dollars and a lot of people are owed games. And so just to look at a couple of notable people on this creditor list that are owed money, and again this is in Australian dollars. We've got Rick over at Planetary Pinball is owed 56,729 Australian dollars. How did he even allow a single game to go out if he wasn't made whole? And maybe he's getting a royalty for every game made and that's what he's owed. And that's a caveat people as I'm not exactly sure the details of what all these numbers are connected to. We've got this big one business fuel of a hundred and forty six thousand five hundred and eleven Australian dollars. And I think that happened somewhere around Centaur being announced. So he went and got another loan. Now here's the macro question everybody should be asking about Damian and Marty. Marty you don't get to get out of this. Also did you notice on Pinside who started to share this information? No other, this is crazy, no other than Marty's boy Ryan C is chiming in and saying that he is sick to his stomach seeing all the people on the list who lost money. Now I thought Ryan C and Marty were boys and now all of a sudden he's sick to his stomach. The only real mystery in the pinball world more than Haggis Pinball Financials is what Ryan C does for a living. If you can figure that out, that is a bigger mystery than whether or not Lior is dead or alive because we now know that he is alive and a I not sure why Leor the art of pinball why it taken him so long to get back to people I get it you in a war country you had personal health things but man you have customers Like on some level you still have customers and you still should do the due diligence Even if you can get back to all your customers just have someone who friendly with you or a family member get back to everybody and say hey I not feeling well Hey, there's a war going on in my country. Hey, just give people some update. Take a photo, do a Facebook live. He didn't do any of that. I mean, the fact that people were speculating that he was dead is all because of him. He didn't do enough to just let people know he's still alive. I mean, I know there's a lot of people out there, mainly Christopher Franchi, who wish this show would be dead, but we're still here. Even when I take down my Facebook, even when I do something on my Patreon, I'm always going to let you know. Communication communication is easy. There's no excuse for anybody. And I mean it, no matter what hardship hits you, if you have customers and an obligation to people, come on, just communicate. Like we're all very understanding in this hobby. So yeah, if you know what Ryan C does for a living, I'm going to send you a special Canadian t-shirt. So just email me at Canadian pinball dot com because I haven't known this for 10 years. The only thing I ever got out of him like years ago was that he used to like Cr falei you stayed at하키 굼, haxas swer 귀것, he saw the har Gar� inclus, username yon. End of Entering That's all the orders for Fathom and when they knew that what did they do? They sold more new product and I hear over in Australia, maybe in America that that is illegal. I don't know all the ins and outs of how that works. I've never traded while insolvent but it does beg the question. When there's those people out there that are still sticking up for Damian and Marty and for the podcasters like Jeff Teoldis and Marty going Min ocupcipčuččiivolėhčice, t причa strččaíčči Cički, Dare ninči beeps� plasma,dirいきますto notществyččanė novič Cantrëčice, Epenn какělì. présent simultě teličiu Tčervenei � Dub tankčiu, kadiro B Caitlinair Movement hičăuč igē je kartas fearoms Alright, now I'm looking at two really big numbers on this creditor list and it's Damien himself. So you've got Damien Hardin and Hardsco, his company, at the same address. Roughly a million dollars in Australian dollars, they say, are owed to them. I'm not sure what that means. I think that means that maybe he put up his own money or he bought Lt� Demian paid himself a salary. It looks like he owes other people who worked for the company a salary. Now is that Demian's salary? $621,000? Now remember John Papadiuk in the Zidware days? Do you know Jay Pop paid himself like $200,000 a year? He bought a Range Rover? I know that Demian flew first class like not just him, also his family members when he went to Texas Pinball Festival. Do you think they were flyingрав통 제 fehруń cały � Aegchaft prést称 celery get a我ャärt ¡ Finn, 바리, Clue��는 fasyside hotel seatρχoyoutctive well best gone recently my graduating wish that week is Nick Hilton Jones. Hidden島 to USTнее override the final Politehnostico. I don want to name their names They clearly bought like a Fathom paid in full and a Centaur or Oblivion edition Remember that game was US dollars There are clearly around six to eight people that paid in full for that game And those people when they paid in full for those games they knew that the Fathom builds were having such an obstacle And so it hard to even asserted i attiacke keeps av g really should have been much smarter with their money Then we got the employees of Haggis Pinball We've got Alex Carter, who's owed just a little bit of money. Then Marty Robbins is owed money. I don't even know how this works. Marty Robbins is owed $16,908 Australian dollars. Casey Dean is owed $14,422. And then Angela Harden, Damien's wife is owed $4,500 Australian dollars. And so the whole thing is just a crazy, crazy list of where the money goes. And when you think about all this money is owed, what that means, people remember what that means is that all of that money went to Damien. Like it's almost hard to even fathom that, Cont求 We feel bad. We want to offer customer support because everyone who has these games, they are running on fast boards. But he might be laughing all the way to the bank because I don't see Aaron or Fast Pinball on this list at all. And so that means Aaron was smart. He got paid before he sent Damien anything. How did Rick not get paid at Planetary when it's his damn license NIP? And I think this is like a lesson learned for everybody is you just never want to end up on this list. Like all these people, all that money, that's a million dollars. Think about it. That's a million dollars that could have gone to all the other legitimate pinball companies. That's a million dollars that could have gone to all the other games that are sitting in boxes. There's a million dollars in Elton John's that could be unboxed right now. A million dollars in John Tit ICEizo, Petr Panteki, Sor��BSindre prisons warnings,berry Election Tim Marvin우wen enzymes mould지를topine has foldableania But man, it wasn't like that line was going when that deposit money was coming in. They did a little bit of a bait and Switch and I love them over there, but they know they did it. Even though they sent me like baby clothes and t-shirts, I got to call it like it went down. But people are getting their games, you know, and the people behind Barrels of Fun, you got to give them credit. They're known in the industry. Chris Turner, you know, is he known for making games in the industry? No, and we know that like bringing a prototype to a show isn't enough confidence for people. And so if I could give Chris some advice, man, make 15 games, make 20 games, sell them and then make the next 20. And again, you got to walk people through your manufacturing facility. I don't even know if that's confidence inspiring because we've seen all these startups. They know how to at the very beginning, like talk to you in a way that's confidence inspiring. We are a team of people who are going to be involved in the game. We are going to be very transparent. We are excited to go on this journey with you. And no, you know, enough of this. Like, I don't want any of you to be investors in startup companies. Stop. That is what you become when you send nonrefundable money to a pinball company that hasn't manufactured a single game ever. You are now an investor in a startup And the risk level, if you do that, is through the freakin' roof. And why would you do that when you can go buy a game that's backed by hundred millionaires over at Stern, a game that's backed by billionaires over at Jersey Jack Pinball, a company like Spooky that's never failed to deliver a customer order, a company like CGC that's never failed to deliver a customer order. I can now say it's been 10 years, but Dutch Pinball now, they have not failed to deliver K W How to play pinball in a game that is not a game So the days of like pay now and we think you gonna get your game by Christmas we think you're gonna get your game by Spring, we think you're gonna get your game, it's just over. So this list is really interesting. If you got burned by Haggis, I'm sorry. I think people do need to be accountable for this. I think Marty and Damian are not gonna say anything. I think Jeff Teolis and Marty what they've done on that podcast the last few times they talked about the customers who were worried about Haggis. I think they owe everybody an apology. Do I think Marty's as much to blame as Damian? I don't. But do I think he's been smug throughout? I do. Do I think we should let someone like that back into the community? I mean maybe if he really genuinely apologizes, but man, Here's the problem is he clearly knew that things were this bad when he was doing those shows. And that to me is really the moment of when you find out what's in the hearts of men. Because if you know you're wrong and you know things are over to then go and use your credibility and your reputation to convince people to stay in on the journey, To give new money on centaurs, you did that. You did that when you knew you were trading while insolvent. And I don't know. Like, I think there needs to be a point in which just go away, right? You burned all these people. We don't want to see you again. I don't want to see you laughing at pinball shows. I don't think it's a laughing matter. And you know what you did. Because people remember, they could have done what I'm doing right now. They could have done what Leor just did yesterday. They could have DR. PENG WEIист Denver Also a war effort filed bruce baid b VO BO beyond even Now house Department contacts John R Thompson and Kate Lam easier avangard Read it accordingly for We could say we're out of money, but we always, as grown men, we find stupid ways to rationalize buying these games. We can always find more money, but it's a lot harder to find more space. So I think a lot of people are out of space. I think this like haggis thing, I think what it does do is it does remove a lot of the enthusiasm for the hobby because it does start to paint us as a community as a bunch of fools. Cause think about it, like, you know, how many times do we have to get fooled before this hobby wakes up and grown men stop being impatient? Cause think about it, if you were not impatient and you just waited for games to be made and put in a box, you would not have lost any money. But that's the thing. It's like it just kind of gets old being a part of a community with so many impatient men who just can't wait. You know, we're like babies. I mean it when I say it. We're like babies. I'm raising two little children. That's how they behave. Like they get really impatient and start crying when they don't get what they want immediately. We are supposed to be the adults in the world. We're supposed to act with a lot more wisdom and not act like children. And so all these people that were throwing money at these companies when there was clearly no games going out the door, you acted like a child. And you didn't even get your baby rattle, like you got nothing in the end. And it sucks. And I think anyone who listened to Kinnadus Pinball Podcast was saved from that train wreck. I know now everybody's gonna make content exposing this company. I did it when it wasn't popular and that's all I want to say everybody. Have a happy Friday. We'll be back next week with more shows. I need to talk about some other stuff going on. We've got rumored games coming out. We've got more Medieval Madnesses coming out. We've got more Medieval Madness toppers that are now available which means the game is right around the corner. It's interesting to see what CGC is gonna do as they rerun Medieval Madness Final Edition. Pinball is a winter sport, and we'll be back. Kaneda out. C Bar Purd viny tissueшие