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The Pinball Show Ep 32: The Amish - A Lifestyle Brand

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·50m 11s·analyzed·Oct 5, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Industry news roundup: Stern Avengers shipping, JJP Guns N' Roses reveal, Spooky/Haggis production updates.

Summary

The Pinball Show episode covers industry news from multiple manufacturers including Stern's Avengers LE shipments and George Gomez's educational Spike 2 node board video, Jersey Jack's Guns N' Roses reveal, Haggis's return to production post-COVID, Spooky's production increases, and discussion of Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) completing Avengers artwork on a six-month timeline. The hosts also discuss Ben Heck's upcoming CGC game, licensing challenges around Evil Dead, and tangential lifestyle commentary on the Amish.

Key Claims

  • Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) completed Avengers artwork in six months on a rushed timeline due to Marvel's insistence after his Deadpool success

    high confidence · Jeremy Packer interview on Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; Zach Manny discussing the interview

  • Zombie Yeti turned down Star Wars comic versions artwork due to being terrified of the project scope

    high confidence · Loser Kid Pinball Podcast interview; Zach Manny citing Jeremy's comments

  • Spooky Pinball has increased production on Rick and Morty by speeding along the process without increasing unit count

    medium confidence · Zach Manny citing 'pinball water cooler' conversations; admits uncertainty on implementation details

  • Haggis Pinball is returning to full production post-COVID with Celts game and offering $1,000+ in extras for Expo special orders

    high confidence · Dr. John's Spooky Haggis industry update segment

  • Jersey Jack's sixth release is Guns N' Roses, confirmed by designer Eric Menier's teaser photos showing playfield assembly

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg's Jersey Jack update; photos of assembled playfield and production line with caption 'kicking them down the line'

  • Stern's Spike 2 node boards are modular—additional boards can be added without redesigning the entire system for new functionality

    high confidence · George Gomez YouTube video; Zach Manny noting this eliminates need for next-gen system redesign

  • Opening coin door on Spike 2 machines disables node boards 1, 8, and 9 due to high voltage safety interlocks

    high confidence · Zach Manny providing technical troubleshooting tip to listeners

  • Ben Heck's next CGC game will use a different licensed theme than originally intended, moving past the Evil Dead licensing dispute with Spooky

    medium confidence · Ben Heck on Kaneda's Pinball Podcast; Zach and Dennis inferring Evil Dead was the original target based on rumors

Notable Quotes

  • “He played the wheelchair card on me, Dennis. All this stuff was obvious... You're unwelcoming. That's what you are.”

    Zach Manny @ early segment — Community listener feedback challenging host's 'no shoes in house' rule, highlighting accessibility discrimination concerns

  • “If there are two hubs nearby, train would make sense. I mean, rail is great for heavy stuff.”

    Dennis Creasel @ shipping discussion — Explanation of Stern's use of rail freight for shipping pinball machines, suggesting efficiency in logistics

  • “I initially had heard that there were some serious from a programming level concerns about the software rewriting itself every time you turned on the game... I've heard that's been solved now.”

    Zach Manny @ Spike 2 discussion — Technical acknowledgment of past Spike firmware issues (flash memory write cycles) and claimed resolution

  • “Give me a rushed Zombie Yeti over a lot of other artists, to be frank.”

    Zach Manny @ Avengers artwork discussion — Endorsement of Packer's quality despite short six-month timeline for Avengers

  • “He said he was terrified. That's too big.”

    Zach Manny @ Star Wars discussion — Jeremy Packer's reluctance regarding Star Wars artwork due to scope concerns

  • “Spooky sold out a Rick and Morty in seven hours, so it doesn't seem like it was a miss to do what they ended up doing.”

    Zach Manny @ closing — Market validation for Spooky's decision-making despite Evil Dead licensing fallout

  • “It's a lifestyle brand. Yes.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Amish discussion — Podcast's tongue-in-cheek characterization of Amish culture, framing episode title

  • “They don't take their shoes off when they enter their barns.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Spooky/Amish production analogy — Callback to shoe-removal debate while joking about Spooky's production increases

Entities

Zach MannypersonDennis CreaselpersonJeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti)personGeorge GomezpersonEric MenierpersonBen HeckpersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Spooky Pinball production acceleration on Rick and Morty without unit increase reveals operational strain; unclear if longer hours, additional staff, or process optimization driving speed

    medium · Zach: 'they have increased a bit production on Rick and Morty... speeding along the process... I don't know the details, though, of how they're doing it'

  • ?

    business_signal: Haggis Pinball exiting COVID production freeze; Celts game capped at 200 units worldwide at $6,000 USD with premium Expo customization package worth $1,000+

    high · Dr. John: 'Damien is about to go full steam ahead with production... limiting the game to 200s worldwide... current price US is $6,000'

  • ?

    community_signal: Stern producing educational YouTube content (George Gomez Spike 2 node board explainer) demonstrating manufacturer commitment to customer/operator technical literacy and self-service troubleshooting

    high · Craig Bobby: 'George Gomez... dissect and explain the computer brain behind new Stern pinball machines... This fascinating video shows Gomez carefully explain and show the benefits'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Spooky Pinball's Rick and Morty sellout in seven hours validates production/sales strategy despite Evil Dead licensing failure; market appetite remains strong

    high · Zach: 'Spooky sold out a Rick and Morty in seven hours, so it doesn't seem like it was a miss to do what they ended up doing'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Zombie Yeti turned down Star Wars artwork due to scope/style concerns; hosts discuss how Star Wars 'paint by number' constraints conflict with his creative flexibility vs. Avengers/Ghostbusters diversity

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.151

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:10
The Pinball Network is online. Launching, The Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle.
0:26
It's time for The Pinball Show. it's pinball with personality welcome back y'all to the pinball show episode 32 with your host myself zach many and dennis creasel what a beautiful wonderful week this shall be dennis it is it's exciting i'm gonna lace up my shoes and be ready to go are you really no my shoes are off right now you're gonna do the boot scooting boogie you know we're putting out this episode before yet another big announced i know we fail it's hard life is hard when we record yeah it truly is especially on the days you have to record at egp as well does your throat hurt after the end of a double recording sesh i wouldn't necessarily say hurt but i don't want to talk anymore is that more of a psychological thing or a physical vocal cord thing just kind of like i feel like i've spoken enough words for the day sure it's your word allotment yeah i think a person only needs to say so much or else they talk too much i can actually relate to that if i'm super busy if i'm doing psychology i'm talking i'm talking i'm talking i'm talking then in between patients or my lunch break i'm answering phone calls for flipping out pinball and returning phone calls by the end of the day when i get home my kids like daddy and my wife's like me yeah i'm like okay, I'm kind of over talking. Let's just nestle and hug.
1:56
I need a big nest. I have all my little birds in there. You just bought a whole new house. Yeah, I know. I just need one nest, though, that my whole family can sit in. I don't know. I'm being ridiculous. Sorry. Oh, speaking of being ridiculous, we got a lot of feedback from the take off your shoes segment we did last week. I think it was mixed, to be fair. That would be my assumption, would be. A lot of people have that rule. I think I acknowledged that. I just don't agree with it. You didn't have just a little bit of thought afterwards.

  • Evil Dead licensing fell through due to actor Bruce Campbell's likeness fees, not just the IP license cost

    medium confidence · Dennis Creasel's speculation based on industry knowledge; unconfirmed but strongly hinted by Ben Heck

    • Spooky Pinball
    company
    Haggis Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Company (CGC)company
    American Pinballcompany
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Avengers Infinity Questgame
    Rick and Mortygame
    Celtsgame
    The Pinball Showmedia
    Loser Kid Pinball Podcastmedia
    Kaneda's Pinball Podcastmedia
    Spike 2 systemproduct
    Evil Deadgame
    Batman 66game
    Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtlesgame

    high · Zach: 'He said he was terrified. That's too big.' Dennis: 'What's the characteristic of Star Wars art besides paint by number and don't you dare deviate?'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Ben Heck's original Spooky collaboration (Evil Dead) licensing collapsed due to Bruce Campbell likeness fees exceeding budget; project shelved in favor of new licensed CGC game theme

    medium · Dennis: 'the issue wasn't even the Evil Dead license. It was Bruce Campbell, the lead actor, who cost to get his likeness... they didn't want to pull the non-Segorni Weaver thing'

  • $

    market_signal: Stern Avengers LE shipping on schedule to US; Premium edition shipments projected 3-6 weeks pending COVID delays; Canadian arrival expected 7-10 days

    high · Craig Bobby: 'excited Avengers LE buyers in the US began posting their lucky purchases... Premiums should start leaving the factory in the next three to six weeks'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) completed Avengers artwork on compressed six-month timeline after initially declining; Marvel insisted due to Deadpool success and George Gomez advocacy

    high · Zach Manny citing Loser Kid interview: 'Marvel came back and they really wanted him... George Gomez pushed for it... he completed that project in six months'

  • ?

    announcement: Jersey Jack Guns N' Roses officially revealed October 5th via designer Eric Menier's teaser photos showing populated playfield assembly and production line

    high · Ken Rudberg: 'This is Guns N' Roses. No one seems more excited than Eric himself' and photo caption 'kicking them down the line'

  • ?

    product_concern: Avengers Premium/LE translight and cabinet artwork share similarities due to Zombie Yeti's compressed six-month timeline; some repetition between cabinet and translight backgrounds acknowledged

    medium · Zach: 'that's why we see... some of the trans light and the cabinets on the premium LEDs having some similarities there... some. A lot, let's be fair. Yes, a lot.'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Stern's Spike 2 node board architecture confirmed as modular platform requiring no full system redesign for future functionality expansion; past firmware issues (flash write cycles) claimed resolved

    high · George Gomez YouTube video and Zach explaining: 'the whole idea when they came up with these node boards for Spike was you just add another node board if you need new functionality'

    • 2:28
    He's kind of got a point. No, I mean, I understand the theory. You expressed it really well. The problem is that that's actually more of a slippery slope than I think you were ever thinking of. But I'm sure some of the people writing in pointed out to you why. Yes. I wasn't – yeah. Yeah. So we got a viewer, one of our favorite people, messaged in and said, well, how about this smart guy referring to me? Yeah, you are the brilliant one. He said, I utilize a wheelchair. I guess I can never come into the mini home because how am I supposed to take my shoes off or what am I supposed to take my treads off, Zach? Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, so you basically discriminate against the handicap is what it sounds like. I like that. Your whole argument was about dirt and dog poop getting tracked into the house. That's the whole argument with the shoe thing. And so obviously the wheels are the problem on a wheelchair. So I guess you just don't have wheelchair folk over, do you? He played the wheelchair card on me, Dennis. All this stuff was obvious. It's the same with if someone's on crutches. Do they have to throw their crutches outside and just hop around everywhere? I put cotton balls on the end of those things. All of you with this rule didn't think any of that stuff through. You're unwelcoming. That's what you are. He played the wheelchair card. Touché. Nicely done. I think you're allowed to play the card when you have a wheelchair. I think so. It's the trip card. I think that's written on the card in the fine print. Hey, he played it, and he won that hand. I'm going to give it to him. I did see that email. You were chuckling. I knew it. I did, because I was like, oh, he played you so well. And then I just thought, what if your friend Terry wanted to come? Terry's not allowed in your house. Oh, Terry's allowed to do whatever he wants to. Plus, Terry has a new wheelchair. so yeah but in my but he uses it outside so it's now contaminated with poop that was like your main argument was if you ever go outside you have poop on you well i was thinking kind of like the like a hair net but wrap them around the wheel oh like plastic bags yeah but you know what at the end of the day here here's my solution uh to our friend out there you know what you come in in a wheelchair you don't have to take off your shoes ah well that's a fair point yeah so i didn't say anything about rubber tread i'm just talking about shoes which are also rubber tread now but what if he what if he's wheeling up and then you see he doesn't have his feet on the footrests but he just lets his feet oh don't then i'll say something i'll be like dude that's what the the feet rests are for and then maybe he says i like to hear the it reminds me of my toenails oh not toenails he's got shoes on Oh, my picture was with him not wearing shoes. Have you not ever, like, with hard sole shoes, gone into a place that has a marble floor or whatever, and you've deliberately let them thwack so you can hear the echo? I love it. With my wooden soles and my Johnston Murphys. Yeah, exactly. Who doesn't do that? They're like a fucking horse.
    5:33
    You're like, that's right. I'm a pony. I'm walking in. Everyone's going to look at me. I will, Prince. I'm a show pony. So that was a good discussion. And it led to this, which is going to piss off some people. And they're going to write a review saying it's off pinball topic. And to that, I say lick them. What else? Oh, we have the banner giveaway. The Avengers banner giveaway. All the T-shirt designs. Yes. All people had to do is design a T-shirt for us, put some effort into it, and we were going to randomly draw a winner. We're going to let that run for another week or so, I believe. So all they had to do makes it sound like maybe a lot of them didn't actually try that hard. We had some good ones. We had some really good ones, and I'm going to be honest, we had some piss-poor executed ones, too.
    6:17
    Up your game, people. Did you reply to those and say, when I said put some effort into it, I meant not this? I mean, not this. Some of them were really good. What I'm wanting to say to the listener out there, if you're wanting this Avengers banner, look, remember?
    6:32
    MSRP, what, $200 on Pennside? I don't think they have a price. But if you want it, up your game. Up your game. Put some effort into it. Some of you guys should just be ashamed. Did you reply and say no, ineligible? Get out your crayons!
    6:48
    You want to talk about some pinball news? Yeah, the listeners are probably really mad because I don't even know banners count as pinball. It's time for TPN Industry News.
    7:03
    Matt Morrison here with your Chicago Gaming Company update for the week. Ben Heck was on Canada's Pinball Podcast discussing all things Deep Root, but towards the end of the interview, Ben gave us a glimpse at CGC's upcoming release schedule. Next out the door will be another Bally Williams remake, then the first original CGC game, then Ben Heck's spooky collaboration game. What's interesting is that both Ben's game and CGC's game are licensed themes. I'm personally going to start praying to the pinball gods that we might get a Pulp Fiction machine. maybe the lay royale with cheese multi-ball heroin overdose ball save video clean up the car mode possibilities are endless if it only had the pin bar oh well that's it for this week i'm matt morrison hi and welcome to this week's spooky haggis industry talk update on the pinball show with dr john i've got to get my best craig bobby enthusiasm voice going because haggis is back in production. The Victorian restrictions from COVID are being lifted and Damien is about to go full steam ahead with production of my Celts game and all other Celts games that have been ordered. If you go to the Haggis website and have a look at the moment, you can get a show special to commemorate Expo that's coming up virtually, which will include over $1,000 worth of extras, including your clan name on the game, call-outs for your clan, RGB lighting in your clan colours, your clan crest on the back glass, and a lot of other schwag to go with the game. As we know, he's limiting the game to 200s worldwide, and the current price US is $6,000. Shipping, insurance, etc. can be arranged via Haggis, but please let him know as soon as you can before these games are sold out. And the other exciting news is Spooky announced on their latest podcast that they have increased the production numbers per week. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I might find out for next week for you. This week in Pinball, last week also did a deep dive on the Alice Cooper rules to let people know how to use the weapons to defeat the monsters for larger points and quicker progress towards billion-dollar babies. I know I've been mucking around with it, and it's a great game with these added rules that you don't need to know, but they add another dimension to gameplay. Anyway, that's it for this week. I'm excited. I hope you are too. Catch you all next week. Bye-bye.
    9:42
    Hey, this is Kaz with an American Pinball update. While there's no major news this week, I just wanted to remind everyone to check out the Hot Wheels IFPA live streaming challenge series. These weekly challenges will run through the end of the year, to check out ifpapinball.com for more details. Hope everyone has a great week and has fun playing pinball. For the Pinball Show, this is Brian Kosner.
    10:07
    Hi, this is Ken Rudbrook with your Jersey Jack update. Well, it looks like the end is in sight for the long wait for Jersey Jack's sixth release. The reveal is today, Monday, October 5th, and I couldn't be more excited. Over the past week, the pin's designer, Eric Menier, has been posting a series of teaser photos on social media. First, a photo of him holding up the backside of a playfield of the new machine. Another of Eric looking over the backside of a populated playfield. And another photo of machines going down the line and being built. It is happening. The photo came with a caption saying, kicking them down the line. Once again, reinforcing the rumor that this is... Okay, it's not a rumor. This is Guns N' Roses. No one seems more excited than Eric himself, and I know there's going to be a lot of coverage today, and I'm looking forward to taking it all in. It's been a long wait, but it's finally here. Jersey Jack number six. Looking forward to it. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update.
    11:17
    Gomez takes to YouTube. Avengers LE Shipout and Zombie Yeti vs. Loser Kid. Hey everyone, Craig here again, the pinball show's Stern News Correspondent. Ever wondered what runs a Stern pinball machine or what a node board is? Well, tune in to the Stern YouTube channel to watch Zach's homie gomie, George Gomez, Stern's chief creative officer and all-around pinball renaissance man, dissect and explain the computer brain behind new Stern pinball machines, better known as the Spike 2 system. This fascinating video shows Gomez carefully explain and show the benefits and simplicity of the Spike 2 system, both from a modularity and processing power standpoint, which controls everything from animations, light shows, mechanisms, and almost everything else that's electronic in the game. George also confirmed that Stern is still actively working on future Wi-Fi capabilities that would be available soon. Stay tuned for more videos from George on a wide range of behind the scenes development and maintenance topics for the home user or enthusiast Meanwhile excited Avengers LE buyers in the US began posting their lucky purchases on Facebook and various other streaming channels this week as many started receiving these gorgeous machines right on time and on schedule. Avengers LEs destined for Canada should be arriving up here in the next 7-10 days or so as the Stern factory continues to plow through their massive backlog of game orders. Next on the docket for October, Yes, you guessed it, the very popular Avengers Premium Editions, which is speculated makes up the bulk of Stern's initial order run for this title. Premiums should start leaving the factory in the next three to six weeks and on into the holiday season, pending any COVID-related delays. And be sure to check out the Loser Kid Pinball podcast as they interview Zombie Yeti on his design process and journey through his amazing year of artwork with TMNT, and the Avengers Infinity Quest. That's all for this week. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    13:39
    Let's kick it off, Dennis, with Stern Pinball. Always great hearing from the correspondents and Craig Bobby. He talked about a code update for the Avengers version .91.
    13:49
    You love code update news topics? Yeah. It's exciting. So many changes. I don't think, yeah, I'm with you. I don't think there was a lot of changes. We get some more audio, more video.
    14:00
    I've been playing that game a lot more. Still waiting for you to be able to play it, but you're in your bunker still. And I don't think it's on location, right? No, we don't have the apparently 403 Club was supposed to get Avengers, and it was damaged in shipping. Oh, man, I wish you were closer to Travis Meary, our buddy, because he, I think he just received his LE. Oh. But you know what's weird? We found out, he messaged me. He was like, hey, can I get tracking? Sent him the tracking. And he messaged me back, Dennis, this is the first I've ever heard of this. Maybe I'm just ignorant to it. He said, it's being transported via train. Like they're organ trailing that shit now. Just imagine it keeping itself confined to the bar car.
    14:46
    Yeah. So I, and Joe Fox said the same thing. He was like, yeah, I got delayed one day, but what's this about it being on a train, Zach? And I'm like, I'm going to have to talk to my shipping broker. Heavy freight, I'm not surprised for big. If there are two hubs nearby, train would make sense. I mean, rail is great for heavy stuff. Yeah, and these two dropped, their two machines dropped from Stern. So maybe Stern is utilizing it. I don't know if it's a broker thing for me. They've got a new deal with the Hutchinson, Topeka, and Santa Fe rail.
    15:20
    It's probably safe, though, if you think about it. It's probably less wear and tear bouncing around. Oh, yeah, I imagine there's probably less rattling. I don't know how much rattling in the back of a truck is an issue, but the odds of an accident, I think, are a lot lower. Mm-hmm, yeah. So you hear that, Travis Meary? If your machine, you open it up and it has any issues, it's because of you. CSX would never do that. And nor would the truck that takes it from the rail station to your house. They'll not mess it up either. That damn thing's going to be bouncing around. So don't call your distributor asking for fixes. George Gomez just appeared on a new video explaining the Spike 2 node board functioning. It's a really well done video I liked it. You love node boards. After hearing George Gomez explain why they're using them and the benefits of using them, I totally get it The idea behind them makes a lot of sense and I have heard that the firmware behind them has had improvements I initially I had heard that there were some serious from a programming level concerns about the software rewriting itself every time you turned on the game. And those like flash memory and stuff only can be written on so many times that people don't usually think about it because it's usually not an issue. But normally when you turn things on, they don't rewrite. I've heard that's been solved now. It's not doing that anymore. So longevity should be better. Yeah, I like that just visually he had them sitting in front. and reminded people that for a lot of these node boards, they're like a rectangle. And he said, they're the same. So you can use the same replacement board for different titles. And he said, like, the pin utilizes one node board, whereas most of your standard sterns will utilize two. And then he held up two. And he said, if we ever need to add, this isn't something we have to worry about in the back box. We just add another node board and so on and so forth. Yeah, that's why I think a lot of people, I think we had a discussion a few episodes back about would Stern be – are they working on their next system? And I'm like, I don't think so because the whole idea when they came up with these node boards for Spike was you just add another node board if you need new functionality. You don't have to redesign the entire system. Yeah, you made a really good point last time about that, and I didn't – I hadn't thought about that. Well, this is so different from anything else that Pinball had done before. Yeah, on newer sterns, that's usually the culprit if you have an issue.
    17:50
    Stern pinball has been quality-wise and just out of the box, turning it on and playing, probably among the best. I know for some listeners, the anti-stern people out there, it's hard to believe. But if I'm taking new pins to a show and I don't want to have to worry about fixing them out of the box, sterns are usually the best bet for that. If they're going to have an issue, it's like a faulty node board or something, which is a pain in the ass. you just send off they get you one quick it's not a big deal but yeah that's one of the first places i look now when i'm troubleshooting with customers let's let's figure out this node board most of the people that i i've heard from that are unhappy with spike is that because the node boards rely so much on surface mounted components they don't have the capability as amateurs to fix them themselves oh and i did this brings up a good point to all the listeners out there if you're getting a new stern pinball machine i get this message probably troubleshooting wise more than any other message people will unbox their machine and they will turn it on and they will message or call me and say zach they're not identifying certain node boards on here something's going on the game's not playing and i say is it by chance node boards one eight and nine and they're like Yeah, how did you know? So what that is, listener, is those node boards, I'm ignorant a bit to this, so bear with me. But when you open up the coin door, it stops at high voltage. And that high voltage is responsible or runs through node boards 1, 8, and 9. So it's going to come up as not identifying 1, 8, 9 when you have the coin door open. You can either close the coin door to see if the message goes away, or you can pull out the refrigerator light closer white thing inside the coin door. You can pull it to the right, pull it out. That will institute your high power or your high voltage, if you will. I don't know how much high voltage really in these new pins, but pull that out and you should be having all the coil functioning in test and everything with the coin door open. So if you do that and it goes away, you're all good. It's common message 189. See, I'm helping the people, Den Den. Stern Pinball had some more news this week with Jeremy Packer aka Zombie Yeti visiting the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast now this just dropped I want to say three days ago so it's a little early in your queue I assume you didn't get to listen to this one yet not all the way I was listening to it last night but I did not get all the way through it oh so you were able to start it good good deal yeah I think about half way it was a nice fun interview I like that the styles between the interviewee and the interviewers were different so it made for compelling uh conversation listening to those guys over there jeremy packer something different i like that his quick wit and he takes chances on jokes hashtag respect there dennis so they talked about all kinds of stuff including me oh yes i heard a little bit about you or the part i've heard maybe you come up again later my little packy derm yeah he talked about me a little bit i don't know is it jeremy packer's tough because he jokes so much he's one of those guys that when he's joking you don't know if he's making fun of you or you don't know if he's making fun with you so i don't i don't know either he really likes me or he thinks i'm a tool or maybe both i don't know well so it's so hard because it's so easy that it could be either. It's so easy. And then, but if it's the latter, you'll be all like, everyone probably hates him too. I mean, there's something wrong with everyone who hates me.
    21:35
    We can do that live on air. We'll list out the people. We'll do it live. We'll do it live! So, Jeremy Packer, thanks for the shout out there, sweetie. I love that. Yeah, he was just saying that I needed more advertisement out there in the pinball world. He doesn't see that. So, you know, I never thought that Jeremy listened to pinball podcasts. I guess that just showcases how much I advertised.
    21:58
    Oh, that is a good point. You are a bit saturated would be the word I would use. You know what I would use? Buy, buy, buy! They talked a lot about his work on the new Avengers Infinity Quest pinball machine. He said that he actually had to knock out Avengers on a pretty short schedule. He wasn't even willing or going to do this. But Marvel came back and they really wanted him because they were used to his artwork on Deadpool. That was a success. So they pushed for it. George Gomez pushed for it. And ultimately he complied and was happy that he did it. But he completed that project, the Avengers, in six months. Now I'm ignorant when it comes to how long artwork takes. I can't imagine it being fast or easy considering the complexity and the details that these current artists are putting into pinball machines. and that's why we see, Dennis, some of the trans light and the cabinets on the premium LEDs having some similarities there. Yes, some.
    22:57
    A lot, let's be fair. Yes, a lot. He changed the background colors. I know. He did what he could with the time he had. It still looks dynamite. And give me a rushed zombie yeti over a lot of other artists, to be frank. I don't want to give him leeway. Well, now you want to do a comparison. Okay, so we know Batman 66 was a very rushed project. That was a rushed one, too, yes. So tell me, rushed Chris or rushed Jeremy?
    23:26
    I think that's apples and oranges because Franchi wasn't able to do the play field art. So if I did a rushed Franchi cabinet back glass compared to rushed Yeti, if I'm comparing Batman to Avengers I would go we're talking about the premium because Batman's only in premium I'm going to go Avengers I think the right answer I'm going to go Avengers who has a close one now Playfield hands down Avengers that's a close one on the cabinet stuff because the trans light on Batman 66 is close to a gold standard That's how good that is Can I pick the Translight from Batman and the Cabinet Anywho And I wouldn't have thought of this Dennis He was talking about doing the Turtles Artwork on the Ninja Turtles Machine by Stern Pinball And it sounded like that was He kind of enjoyed that more than Avengers If I had to guess He didn't come out and say that but he just talked about Stylistically how doing The Turtles was much different than What he's accustomed to and I think that you could see that in his artwork but he said there was a lot of curvilinear features on turtles that he likes to use some straight lines and different things like that so he had to quote soften the hand a bit for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Does that make sense? Softening the hand that's very... No, I don't really know what that means. I figured you wouldn't like that. It a very touchy kind of word and descriptor Dennis do you ever have to soften up your hand before you go to work
    25:12
    Are you a lubriderm man there, Dennis? Look, the low-hanging fruit was Juergens, people. I'm better than that. Were you surprised? I don't know if you've got this far in the interview yet, but he turned down the Star Wars comic versions. No, I wasn't that far. Sorry. Should have said spoiler alert.
    25:34
    Turn it down. It's ruined now, but I'll probably still listen. Does Zombie Yeti, can you see his style work for Star Wars? He said he was terrified. That's too big. He has more than one style. Have you seen some of his posters and stuff? It's not just, I mean, I get so confused with y'all fake knowing art talking like this. I go to the museum every week, thank you. I mean, it's like you look at Avengers and you look at Ghostbusters. those do not look like the same style. So they don't. He completely drew the characters differently. They're far more creatively interpreted, in my view, in Ghostbusters. I can find some characteristics. Oh, I'm not saying that there aren't any certain characteristics, but what's the characteristic of Star Wars art besides paint by number and don't you dare deviate? That's probably what he was a bit afraid of. I think he could paint by number. I painted by number a duck once How did it turn out? It was all quacked up Nicely done Dennis Creasel everybody Spooky Pinball has said that they do not want to Increase production They want to stay the size they are But I've heard at the pinball water cooler That they have increased a bit production on Rick and Morty Not that they're increasing the number of being built, but they're speeding along the process a little bit. I don't know the details, though, of how they're doing it. I read something about an increase as well. I don't know how they're doing it. Are they working longer or more days, or are they bringing on additional personnel?
    27:14
    Maybe they're like the film Kingpin, where was it Dennis Quaid's character talks about the Amish doing one and a half. Isn't that what it was? so you think they became Amish maybe Benton, Wisconsin I wonder if there's any Amish folk in Benton, Wisconsin I don't think there are any people in Benton have you ever lived anywhere where there's a lot of Amish folk no I've traveled through parts of Kentucky where they have like signs like horse and carriage crossing or you get stuck behind one and you're like use your turn signal idiot but I'm like I mean, I've been through, like in Pennsylvania, I've been through, but I didn't live in that area. Do you think you could do well in an Amish civilization? Community? Way of living? What do you call that? It's more than a religion. It's a lifestyle brand.
    28:11
    Yes. You mean like actually living the culture itself? There it is. Thank you. Probably not. I wouldn't fit with that very well. Couldn't churn your own butter? It's not about the work. It's about the philosophy behind why they do it the way they do it. I see. I could see you with a scraggly-ass Amish beard. I couldn't do it. They don't take their shoes off when they enter their barns. So Spooky's increasing production somehow, some way. That's a good idea. They're trying to catch up from the COVID delays. Deep Root. What is Deep Root? Well, I got a couple things. So if you guys want to hear Ben Heck, he goes a little bit about his initial thoughts and impressions regarding all of the Deep Root reveal stuff. You can hear that on Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. He was on there this past week. A couple of interesting things that Ben Heck did say and did talk about. So he's supposed to be doing another game, Dennis, with CGC, but then Spooky's Manufacturing. Remember them talking about that? Yeah, the game that Spooky designed and CGC built, I think. Yes. so I think they were talking about when that's going to be because I thought remember he was supposed to build one for Spooky and he got tired of waiting and he got spooked and said to hell with it I'm out well he was talking about when his game is coming out another remake is coming from CGC then he said the first CGC non-remake it's licensed but it is not a remake is coming out and then possibly Ben Heck's game so I ask you this Dennis what the hell's the difference oh you mean between what was going on with spooky and what was going on with well i i think the difference is i thought that it had already been confirmed that when cgc does do ben's design that it's not going to be the theme ben originally was working for that layout to be for and my sense has been a while now and i didn't follow it all that closely but my sense was that falling out between Ben and Spooky was about Spooky not trying, in Ben's view, hard enough to get the license he wanted that game to be. That's right. Yeah, I think you're right. And so the difference now is apparently he's finally been able to let that go. Wasn't it Evil Dead? Or at least move on from it. I thought it was Evil Dead. That's what the rumor is. I don't think Ben ever confirmed that, but it's been strongly hinted that, yeah, Evil Dead. Evil Dead couldn't be acquired because I'm assuming the… Well, it could. It's just too expensive for Charlie. Well, it wasn't that the license was unobtainium, like a Harry Potter sort of thing, but rather that I believe the issue wasn't even the Evil Dead license. It was Bruce Campbell, the lead actor, who cost to get his likeness. And they didn't want to pull the non-Segorni Weaver thing, as I always go back to with Alien. I don't think you can with Evil Dead.
    31:05
    I mean, I would want Bruce in on it. There's enough characters in the Alien franchise. I didn't think it was the right answer for Alien either. I agree, but they at least had Bill Paxton. So my understanding, if it was indeed Evil Dead, and Ben's philosophy was they should have just added another hundred or thousand or however much it would have cost to the pinball machines to get Bruce on it, and Spooky was like, no, the license is too high if we get every asset. If it was simplified like that, then I agree with Ben Heck. Oh, Spooky, you know, what can I say? Spooky sold out a Rick and Morty in seven hours, so it doesn't seem like it was a miss to do what they ended up doing. Evil Dead is a dynamite license. I believe that would do very well. I think it would, too, absolutely. And it would have been right in Spooky's wheelhouse. But apparently that's not moving forward because that's not what CGC is doing, as I understand it. And it would have been finally, the pinball machine I'm searching for is a scary, scary pinball machine. That depends on exactly which version of Evil Dead they go with. I mean, we're talking Evil Dead, but some people think Evil Dead 2 is the best of the franchise, and that was like a goofy interpretation of the first Evil Dead. Well, they're like Halloween 3 too? Come on. Well, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't go quite like that, but if you ask me about the Evil Dead trilogy, I always cite Army of Darkness, which is very campy, but it's the one I liked the most. I haven't seen Army of Darkness in quite some time. I just think the first one is – I don't know how you change anything about that being one of the greatest horror films of all time. Yeah, it's – I mean, as a low-budget horror, I did a lot with effects, and it was good. But, I mean, there are other horror movies that are more iconic than the original Evil Dead that have not been done. It is hard to list those on more than two hands.
    33:01
    Okay, sure. I probably would. I mean, I would probably in iconic horror would have Evil Dead in the top ten. Okay. So, yay? But very few horror movies have been. I mean, like what we have, Nightmare on Elm Street. That's like it. That's it. Friday the 13th is more iconic than Evil Dead. Halloween is more iconic than Evil Dead. Okay. Exorcist. I would argue that. Exorcist is. what's the one with the pinhead? Hellraiser? More iconic.
    33:31
    Yeah, I could do an Evil Dead pin. I could do all of those. I wasn't a big Hellraiser fan. It wasn't a big... Friday the 13th is fine, but it's no Halloween. I'll take Drag Me to Hell. Have you ever seen that film? I don't think so. I just re-watched Wishmaster. Does that hold up? I haven't seen that in a long time. Actually, yeah. I thought, wow. Because I only remember... I think I've seen at least two of them, so I got some of the scenes mixed up with each other. But yeah, I thought, okay.
    34:01
    Who doesn't like the idea of an evil genie? And it's that time of the year, so that's why we're talking about scary films, people. Yeah, it's that time. I would like to see more horror in pinball. Truly scary, though. It's a genre that's weak in the pinball field. So I don't know what he's doing over at CGC, but it sounds like he's going to have to wait and see quite a while. Quite a while. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's got to be – CGC, I've never heard anything about them picking up their pace. So he's, what, at least three years out? It feels like it. But he did say on the interview, he said, quote, I'm also helping on Spooky's next game, end quote. Okay. But that might be on the – I mean, he's an engineer. It might be just the mechanics stuff. and we know bunyip's doing that one so he's helping with all of that very interesting stuff i like how you uh titled that deep root pinball and then we talked about not deeper i'll throw a little bit in there before we end up the deep root section there was i think an animator that is working with deep root on these games that released a video online breeze by i don't know where to link you guys to but um they showed some of the animation of i believe Merlin's magic. I always think of that. The Merlin game. I think it was the Merlin game.
    35:22
    Dennis, I underestimated their ability to animate because, sweet Jesus, the animation was phenomenal. Original animation. You know cheap animation, right? My kids sometimes are watching a show and I'm like, oh, that is a hack job if I've ever seen it. The 3D rendering, they have no facial features, have no gestures. It's cold. This looked like fucking Dragon's Lair good. This was phenomenal animation.
    35:58
    I second guess, they could have probably went into original theming and branding with animation like that. It was really, really, really good. I'm hyping it right now, but what I saw was phenomenal. I didn't see it.
    36:18
    All right, the last notable news note segment thingy, Penn Clash! Zing, zing, zing! Is Penn Clash where you put a DMD game next to an LCD game and they don't line up proper? It's perfect. That's what I would call it. Nice Sam game there. Penn Clash. No, this is presented by IE Pinball. Oh, Carl D'Angelo. Yeah, Carl D. and the team over there, IU Pinball, are putting together a competition tournament, but it almost feels like this is going to be a recurring series. But it's very similar. It feels like it was just a promotion showing that there's a $1,000 cash prize to the winner. That's always awesome. It's occurring on December 5, 2020. Mark your calendars. But it's like a heads-up kind of competition. Didn't Stern just do this? If Stern's only going to do it once a year, maybe Pin Clash is going to be the rival to that. possibly maybe there's a lot of hate between what california and chicago i thought i was the one that spread spread rumors should be interesting to see some of the people in retrospect were talking about that head-to-head thing and saying why are so many stern employees involved in this thing why can a stern employee win a machine that kind of thing but i mean i kind of get it because I mean they needing to film I think they filmed in Jack Danger studio So you kind of have to be around the Chicago area Back in the day, pinball tournaments, I believe the people who worked on the games, they couldn't compete with the regular tournament. I think they had a special one for the industry folk. Yeah. Probably driven by the same concern, especially back then where I'm talking like the 90s, where the tournaments might be on the game that had not yet been released publicly. Oh, okay. But that does come up from time to time. It's like, okay, well, here's a big pinball event, and hey, look, Pirates just came out. Is Eric competing in it? Is that fair? Keith Johnson, yeah. He's got more time on it than any commoner. Yeah. I mean, that's why you see Bo and Karen at Papa. He's helping with that. He's not playing in the tournament. That's because they have a – for the replay foundation, they have a philosophy that anyone who is serving in an officiating manner shouldn't be playing in the tournament. And that comes up even on local tournaments like broadly, debates amongst tournament people. Is it right for a tournament organizer or director or the person who's making the calls on, no, you're disqualified, no, you had a serious malfunction or not, is also playing and trying to win the prize. But the bottom line is when it comes to local tournaments, if the organizer couldn't play, the tournament wouldn't even happen. This may be an unpopular opinion, Dennis, but I'm going to double down and say absolutely Stern employees should play in all of these tournaments. Because if you take the Stern employees out, you're taking out some of the greatest players in the world.
    39:17
    At that point, we're not assessing who the real winner in pinball is. I won't say in all instances they should get to play. I think it really – I'm bothered by tournaments using basically games that have just been released anyway. So if the game has been out for like a month, I think it's fair game. But if the game is not really out yet or it's come out only like within the last week, I would – I wouldn't say like the entire company can't play. But I think maybe the design team shouldn't. I mean we're talking about – some of these tournaments are playing for five figures. I mean, it's not. Yeah, because I'm thinking about, you know, brand new code updated, and lucky, lucky, we have a tournament tomorrow. Yeah, and I wouldn't go so far as the, you could, I mean, and there are people that will go and say, like, well, that's not fair because only the internal people got to play that particular code set. I'm less bothered by that as long as people got to play the layout, like there was an opportunity. Oh, yeah. As long as they had the opportunity to learn, so that's the main thing is learning the shots. You can give a write-up. People can download the patch notes of Avengers Code 0.91 and know exactly what's changed. So that's just knowledge. You don't have to have to experience that. Book knowledge is good enough for that. But you have to have been able to shoot the pin. Got my Avengers LE this week.
    40:38
    Shoots well. Yeah, you say in a way like it's not your favorite pin. Right now? What's better, it or Stranger Things?
    40:46
    I'm enjoying... If I had to pick right this second? Yeah, that's what I'm asking. Everybody get their veggies? Everybody get their fruits? Because I would say Stranger Things, just because I'm more familiar with it. I don't know Avengers yet. I've filmed this stupid damn game more than I have played it. And speaking of, be on the lookout for a new straight down the middle unboxing of Avengers Elite. I think you'll really enjoy it. Because I may have just been able to get the greatest of all time. to unbox it with me, Dennis.
    41:20
    That's hard to believe, right? During this pandemic, getting the greatest of all time to help me unbox a pinball machine. You've got to tune in and see it for yourself. Only report the facts here.
    41:31
    Dennis, when it comes to pinball podcasting, what do you care the least about? You're singing. Well, fine. I was going to say something else, but if you said singing, it's Pinball Market Trends, y'all. Moo-hoo, moo-hoo, moo-hoo. Pinball Market Trends time, baby.
    41:55
    Buckle up. It's time to go. Trending up this week is Jurassic Park Stern Pinball. You want to know why, Dennis?
    42:05
    I don't care. It's elementary, my dear Den-Den. It's because Jurassic Park has hop, hop, hop, skipping a jump up that Pinside Top 100. Bumping off of Monster Bash. Bumping off of Pirates of the Caribbean. Yep, number three spot. Uno, to, today! Jurassic Park Stern Pinball. Also, this last, what, two weeks? People are still ordering this thing. Like it's the new Avengers. Yeah, it's very popular. Continues to sell. Can't keep them in stock. Pros and premiums. A premium. People, golly. Wish I had 40 of them. I just cannot fill the need of the pinball community's desire for Jurassic Park and that moving Sioux.
    42:51
    Do dinosaurs really come from birds? Darwin? Do they? What? They seem like bird-like creatures. Reptiles and birds. Maybe it'd be more like thinking maybe birds evolved from dinosaurs of some sort. Oh, I guess that's the sequence of events there. I can picture an alligator taking it to pound town to a bird, create a dinosaur Isn't that how it works? Hashtag science Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly right You were the one who did take biology In grad school biology, thank you very much I touched a brain once And mad respect to the donor of that brain I was actually creeped out Ever been into a lab, like a cadaver lab?
    43:33
    Not that I recall It was some heavy shit, bro. I couldn't handle it. Trending down is my weak stomach when it goes to touching dead people. Couldn't do it. Were you able to dissect the fetal pig in high school? No, I only got to dissect a worm.
    43:53
    Man. It was a big worm. What I could dissect is a puppet, though. Trending up this week also is Puppet Pals. Steve Moppy and Rory. They're back. Rory is a newcomer. Puppet Pals episode 2 is back. The reason I'm training this up, it's not self-indulgent because it's exclusively seen on the Pinball Network. No, it's not self-indulgent. It's just great work. The likes of which we really haven't seen this degree in pinball media. It's behind schedule by like six weeks. you can't rush greatness moppy took his time took his sweet mop time the piece by zecario at the end if it didn't send chills up your spine goosebumps on your arm and a slight tear in your in your duct you're you're a cyborg well i i did like that part but you see the puppet pals can actually sing and of course in our in the tpn private discord i did make a remark about how i get to sit here with zach who tries to sing like the theme from goonies and then on puppet pals they do nesson dorma and it's so much better it's so perfect too uh i told i reached out to the to i guess steve whoever whoever handles that email and i said well i think steve does the editing never before not only pinball, but just in arts. Have I seen the way of a person opening up a listener or a viewer's heart when you have that operatic delivery and it's that good? You open up a person's heart. They're fully vulnerable right there. And then at that apex, you throw in a witty, comedic punch. That open vulnerability of the heart and then the punch to it. oh my god man I'm not going to give it away but that's some good stuff and I think the puppet pals may be pretty smart I think I'm seeing into the future of what that show may become and all I'm saying is you may want to pay close attention going forward I think it's going to be like a macho decoder ring thing again oh god the decoder ring was so cringe doot doot doot doot doot I do like the do-do-do-do. Decoder watch!
    46:27
    I can't be driving most of the time I listen to podcasts. I can't be wrecking and getting out my notepad and getting my Ovaltine ready. Drink more Ovaltine? Son of a bitch, Macho. Training Down this week, unfortunately. Well, this is a prediction of Training Down because we still have a couple more hours. But I can tell you. Fake, fake. I can tell you. If you are listening when this is dropping Monday morning here in about five hours or so, training down is every goddamn music-based pinball machine ever made. I can't go much more into that. But, sorry, ACDC. I'm sorry, Metallica. Alice Cooper, you're a little different. I'm still sorry for you. Iron Maiden? What about Tron?
    47:13
    Tron's on a music pin. Yeah, it only sells because of Daft Punk. Wow. Strong incorrect take there. No one remembers that movie. It's all about the music. It's not about the movie. It's about maybe John Borg's, one of his best top three designs. Yori Puputa's Metallica, which most people rate higher than Tron. Unforgiven on that one. But yeah, sorry, music-based pinball machines. Times are changing. The order banks are almost open, so make sure you call your dealer. Subliminally Flip it now Bye bye bye Coin taker It's deals of the week Bye bye bye Do you know what I was singing here No I don't really Yes you did Alright here we go Deals of the week this week is a black knight Sword of rage Really Surprising myself here Where's Waldo 34 out in Lake Villa, Illinois on Pennside is selling a Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro for a lot of people, the preferred version. And it also has the topper. So when you see the $5,000 price tag, look closely because with that topper, $5,000, that's a deal. He said, I love this game, but my flipping dog freaks out at the topper and one of them's got to go. It's so weird to put in there. And then he said, I guess I love the dog a bit more. I don't know couldn't you just put the dog in another room while you play sounds like an excuse right yeah it does liar no the dog may very well flip out I was like but this sounds like hey well I don't want to solve you know controlling the dog so I don't know I'd get rid of that mangy ass son of a bitch ladies and gentlemen that was your What? Oh, my sweet little week. I'm going to be honest here. I forgot about the whole contingency plan you had. If I sing again, you'd be walking off. No, that's a good point, Zach. I almost forgot. But it drove me so batshit crazy on the last episode that, you know, you're right. Fuck it. I'm leaving. Have fun. Enjoy your show. Oh, shit. He is leaving.
    49:33
    Can this be happening? Dennis leaving the show because of Zack's pewter pipes? Did Thanos just snap his fingers on the pinball show? Will Dennis trip on the curtain as he exits stage left? Will Zack second guess his creasel masturbation joke? Is this really the end for pinball podcasting's finest dynamic duo? Or is this just a part one cliffhanging ploy for episode 32 part 2 when Dennis and Zack give their first impressions of JJP's newest game reveal?
    50:02
    Tune in later today. Slightly different time, same TPN channel. Din Din, to the Goatmobile!