Well, Mr. Rob Burke, thanks for coming by. Everybody's very excited for the upcoming Pinball Expo here. So thanks for coming on so we can talk about it. Well, Don, I'm glad to be here, part of it. You're a hard guy to reach, but once you reach it, you're the greatest guy on earth. Right, right, right. So what's this, year 41, huh? Yeah, hard to believe, man. This all started in 1985. The whole reason for Expo, of course, was to honor my heroes who were the pinball designers and artists. Little did I know after doing the show, in my mind, I was done. And then people started calling me, hey, when's the next show? I said, there is no next show. They said, oh, you got to do that. This is too much fun. And here we are, man, number 41. So it started as just a one-off then, just something fun to do for pinball? Well, just to honor my heroes. I enjoyed the game of pinball so much. And I wanted to somehow recognize them. and at pinball at the banquet, I had four guys come up front, Harvey Heiss, Steve Kordek, Norm Clark, and Wayne Nance. And I said, ladies and gentlemen, we had about 100 people, maybe over 100 people in the banquet, in the audience. And I said, these four guys are responsible for the design of over 600 pinball machines. Wow. Well, everyone stood up and applauded. And to me, probably the greatest satisfaction is just seeing tears in some of their eyes because they had never been recognized. You know, it was always the big shots, the corporate offices that got all the recognition. Never the guys that actually designed the games. And that was my whole mission, to recognize them. And I did so, so I was very pleased with the results. Yeah, because the whole idea of people that like pinball actually knowing who designed it, who was the artist, who did the layout, who did the sound, like that wasn't a thing that existed back then. It did not exist. That's the point. That's why I kind of brought these people out of the – behind the walls and let people introduce them to the general public. Yeah, and what a show like this allows people to do is connect with these people and actually give their gameplay experience as an end user back to the people designing these things. So that feedback has got to be helpful for them. it was interesting because I remember Norm Clark we had a panel discussion and he was talking about over the years people would submit designs of pinball machines one particular year a couple of designs came in and he said actually they were pretty good and then he was getting ready to reach out to them until he realized this guy was a prisoner in the penal system so he just kind of mixed that idea. I bet. So when this started then, was this just a one-night banquet event? And then it just grew from there? We had seminars. We had seminars. And then I think in year two, we even started doing pinball tournaments here. But most of the seminars, we had a factory tour. And the banquet was the main thing. And then we had a vendor hall. We had about 30 vendors at the time. And it was crazy because we had all the current manufacturers at the time. Again, this is 1985. They were there as well as other people that were just mislending people who bought and sold these games. So we have brand-new games. That's what these scrapheaps. And it was a while, but I haven't had a good time. And, again, back then we had 100 people. So Pimbalang is the number one, 100 people. Yeah. I mean, this is 1985. Like, who's going to this event? How are people even finding out about it? You don't have any – no social media. You have to put ads in papers or, like, flyers at bus stops or something. So you're right, no social media. So back then, that's what I called it because, you know, I'm from the Fred Flintstone era. But for me, that was the good old days because people used the phone and talked to their friends, and that was the way they communicated back then. But Steve Young had a publication called Pinball Collectors' Quarterly. And in that publication, the first thing he did to help me out was I put out a questionnaire. And the questionnaire is, would you be interested in coming to a National Pinball Collectors' Convention show in Chicago? and we had a questionnaire of about 10 different questions the best time of year to do it, the best city to do it and so forth and it came to us and the design and yes do it. So the only, like you said you're right we're done on it. Back then the only way of communicating was either through the phone and get ready Don when you hear this you're going to cry. Back then how we communicated was we would have a cassette deck, and we would spend anywhere from a 15 to a 30-minute conversation on a cassette, and we would send that cassette by the U.S. mail to our friends, and they would listen to it, and then they would respond back with the cassette. Wow. This is Stone Age, baby. So, I mean, it was either that or a letter. But if we really wanted to spend a lot of time talking about anything and everything, we would use cassettes. So if you were a pinball content troll back then, you actually had to break out the tape deck, record your hateful message, and then buy postage and send that directly to – wow. That must have really – it had to really sting if you wanted to go through all that work to record and send a tape. Well, remember, Don, those were what we called the peaceful times back then. people believe in the American flag and prayer and God and all that stuff and being courteous and being respectful. So, you know, it was a different time back then. Correct. Correct. I think everybody would agree to that time being different. So flash forward to now, there's a four-day event going on every year at this huge Renaissance Hotel, right? This one's October 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. So is this truly like a four-day, I can go there and play pinball every single day, or is like one day just for dealers and then it's open to the public for the weekend? Or how is it structured? Don, have you been to the Southern Port yourself? Have you been there? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, there's so much to see and do. You couldn't do it in one day. And the course, the steering floor is on Friday, so that takes up half a day. But the seminars go from morning to night every single day. we have that going, there's the autograph section, there's the vendor hall, there's the tournaments. You know, that's the thing. Sometimes some of your first-time listeners will ask that question, you know, can I see everything in a day or two? The answer is probably no because there's just so much to do and so much to see. Even the vendor hall alone, we have 100,000 square feet of vendor space, and it's still up. yeah i mean speaking from my experience i've been going for several years now and i will spend like morning to night until you kick me out on the vendor floor itself i barely even go to any of the seminars i can't tear myself away to get to seminars and i still feel like there's more to do i'm like i'm walking in sunday morning people are breaking down i'm like sad what happened yeah everything uh everyone comes from a different reason that's a good point Yeah. You know, if you're into one aspect of it, you see the vendor space, then that takes up a whole day. You're exactly right. You know, it was so adorable years ago. The first year of Expo, we had seminars for, I think like three hours of seminars one day and two hours another day. I mean, now it's just, the hours of the seminars are crazy, but you don't have to find a company to do all this. for first-timers is meeting these game designers and artists. You know, for me, one of the highlights of the show is my ability to get some of these superstars to come out of retirement or agree to come to Expo one more time. And the first example of that is Pat Lawler You know if you like Addams Family or Twilight Zone or Whirlwind or any of the games that he designed it's an extremely rare opportunity to meet the man behind the scenes. And last year he came and he told me this would be his final year. And I pretty much begged him to give me one more year at the Expo because he has so much to offer. He's very articulate. And he is sort of this guy who got in the industry. He's just terrible. so because of that he can speak forever so anyone coming to Expo this year you want to do yourself a favor and come to at least and this is you too Uncle Don at least come to the Pat Lawler seminar because when you listen to him and see him talk you'll appreciate the rich history that he has to share with people in the audience and he'll be speaking about the Dankey producing Williams So that's a very special seminar for me. Of course, having Steve Ritzy, who is also a star in the games he's produced. He'll be talking about his pinball design games, starting with Airborne Avengers and Atari. So he'll be discussing all the games he designed. So anyone who's into history, even a little bit about pinball, should find these guys quite interesting. but also Joe Camercow. Don, do you know who Joe Camercow is? I've heard the name, and I'm familiar with his work, and I haven't met the man in person. Okay, so Joe ended up with Jerry Stern, and they started Daddy East Pinball. What year was I? 86, 87, I can't remember for sure. But they started this company from scratch, and they built the legacy of Dan Stern. But Joe Camercow was also famous for one other thing. And that is, he was the one that walked his talk and said, I'm going to build a Beatles pinball machine. So according to Joe, he spent a million dollars out of his pocket, his own pocket, to pull that out. Wow. So, I mean, Joe would be there speaking of Gary, but anyone in the early Daddy East games, you know, Laser Wars, and kind of things of other ones. torpedo alley was one I think they did, and back to the future, time machine, et cetera, et cetera. This was during the day with Joe Canada. I was there with Gary, and he'll be answering questions and talking about those early games, but also during the audience, you can say, Joe, tell me about the Beatles. Because to me, that was an amazing, amazing project that he pulled off. So again, guys, a lot of guys, people don't come to the seminars, Don. You're not alone. But some of these seminars are worth stepping away from to check them out. These guys are three superstars in the industry. And let's face it, they can be gone tomorrow. Well, I think the access is important too. You know, like a lot of hobbies, you need to wait in lines to get, you know, autographs from people that are involved in television and film production and other projects that you're interested in. Here, like, I get excited every time I see Steve Ritchie walking around. I mean, this man, you know, came from Valley Williams days. He worked on a lot of games I was playing as a kid. He worked on video games and did voices. So, like, it's fun just, like, bouncing into him. And if you've got a favorite game that you own at home, it's not a terrible idea to just go ahead and grab a plastic off of it, stick it in your pocket with a Sharpie, because who knows, you may walk into the designer or somebody that did rules or music or something, and then go ahead and sign that for you and go put it in your game. and then, of course, we have the autograph session on Saturday. So oftentimes people will be there with quote-unquote trans lights and everything they think of, sometimes playfields, and they'll bring them there to the autograph session, and these guys will sign it. And they don't charge, by the way. You know, you're right about some of these Comic-Cons. I was able to meet the guy who did the voice of Courage the Dog. Nice. You know, that cost $50. Yeah. And then I met Billy West. Billy West is the guy who did everything. the voice of Ren and Stumpy. And that caused, I don't remember what it was, but I guess the point being, and you bring up a good point, these superstars, you know, they charge money, they get in line, and blah, blah, blah. You know, Pinball, these guys are still dying to earn it, and they offer these signatures and pictures in those sites. So it's a real treat. You know, Pinball Expo was the first event that had this, and other shows have followed since. but we have by far the largest contingency of design clients only because we're in Chicago, we're home of pinball. So it's very convenient for these guys to come. And one guy that just reached out to me that won't be coming this year, and he does not go to any other event, but remember I'm the same, Don, by the name of Captain Fantastic. Yeah, and not only that, the legends that are there, but there's also, this is the place to play all of the new games all under one roof. I'm excited about everything that's already been revealed and announced. Of course, Stern will be there with their new Star Wars game, which is just shipping now. It'll be a place where you can probably play all three trim levels of Harry Potter in one place. But not only that, like getting to play ABBA and Alien. Do we know, though, what brand-new games will debut here? Is Predator going to be here? Because that's probably one that myself and a lot of people are looking forward to. As of now, the answer is yes. Yes. Okay. All right. So I'll put that in a win column. Those guys make some great games. And then you've got Dutch Pinball. You've got Alice in Wonderland. That's going to be there. And Tommy Floyd, he's got a company called Knights of Pinball. He's out of Canada, but he's got a location also in the U.S. But he has helped me in getting a boost. He's bringing in a couple games from a company called Home Pin. Oh, tell me more. Home Pin, they made the most recent game was... Blues Brothers. You got it, pal. But Bonnie knows, and Blues Brothers will be at Expo. I've never seen the game. This game was made in China. The guy behind it, I think it was Alex Dillard in the ring. Yeah, Mike from Home Pin. Yeah. Right. So he built a factory in China where they build these games. And the Blues Brothers will be there. There'll be some games they're staying called Bitronic. They'll be there with some of their games. I'm not sure the ranks name they've got. They usually bring a Super Hoop and the Tokyo Drift game, which... They're good. Uncle Don, you're on top of your game. Just rare games. The only place I've seen one of these to play has been at Expo. So, yeah, and Blues Brothers is a treat to get to play because of how rare that game is probably going to be pretty much for lifelong. I don't think you're going to see a lot of these outside of a high-end collector that may have one. So go play a Blues Brothers. You've got to play it. But also we have a company from France. It's called HEXA, H-E-X-A, and they make a game called Space Fun. Yes. They are getting a booth, a 20 by 20 booth. So we're going to have a pile of games there for you to play. Yeah, so. I have one on the floor at my arcade called Fast Times. And that game never breaks down. I'll tell you what, I give these guys credit. They figure something out. But that game will be at the show. There's so many games kind of passed on. We have to mention that the home blue section. Yes. Has exploded this year. But, you know, thanks to Jake Janzig and Manolo Harney and others, Aaron Davis, they have helped in this realm of this aspect of pinball, the homebrew stuff is just getting really cool. And these guys are producing some fantastic things. One of the guys that makes a game called Steamboat Willie, I always wanted to see that game in person, so I talked to a guy who was going to bring me a show to Expo. So he'll be there with his game. Perfect. I've played that before. It was at a Louisville Arcade Expo, which I think is more local to where he lives. So, yeah, you're bringing that game. Yeah I mean who doesn love a black and white game But yeah I glad that coming That amazing And then I got another guy I met down there on the shelves in Wisconsin He made Cuphead, the pinball Cuphead. Uh-huh. Oh, yes. Yes. Okay, not the one that everybody immediately thought of, but the homebrew version that is actually available to play. Yes. So, to me, that's exciting. He's coming. So, the homebrew guys, Jake Danzig, by the way, He created a game that can help us some other players. But from what I understand, this homebrew game is so over the top that everyone that's seen it says, you're going to want to buy this game. And my friend is in the sale. But the guy's name, by the way, is Scott Miller. He makes the Cuphead game. Okay. Jake's game out here is just absolutely fantastic over the top and you know guys what's fun about the homebrew section is you see some of these young developers new designers creating these wonderful games but in the old days they were just whiteboards now they've got full artwork on and not to be outdone I showed a game last year than it's halfway in the completion stage. It's not completed, but we call it Mothership. Stop it. It's playable? It's upper line, but the Mothership is a little bit larger version of the Atari Perfidious. A little bit larger? Yeah, it's like four times the size of Hercules, man. That thing is massive. I don't know how you got that in the building. It's going to be a multiball. Can you imagine a multiball jumbo game. Crazy. So that's my dream, and Ernie Silverberg has helped me make it a reality, and you'll have the game on display there in the homebrew area. There are so many cool homebrew games coming. Anybody who's even questioned once about, should I go to the Expo? Should I? I've never been there before, and I don't know, too far away. Guys, if you come one time, you're going to scream, and the first thing they're going to do is say, Don, put me on your podcast, and you'll say, wow. And you'll say, I just want to say how great after work, and then, man, it was great. But there's just so much happening, people, that I can't stress enough that you should really make an effort, especially the first time, and just to check it out, because there's a significant amount of energy in the show that everyone is just on top of cloud nine, high-fiving, hugging, clapping, meeting people, seeing things for the first time. You know, I don't know how to put it in words, Don. I mean, you can probably express as much as what it's like when it's been a year to be here. Yeah, I mean, for those of us that like pinball, that like our old classic games, that like me, that like playing brand new things, I mean, this is like, you know, Wonka's opened the door to the chocolate room, right? And there's everything. And not only everything, but like every version is available. You know, you go to an arcade and they may have the pro version of a new game that was released, or maybe you might find a premium, or you have a friend that got an LE. But to see them all side by side next to each other so you can really see all the differences and see, okay, fresh out of the box, how should this brand new game be playing? like you can do it all there I wander around it's like different neighborhoods you know here's the spooky area Turner's over here he's going to give me an onion ring and I can play I got to play Ninja Eclipse next to Roger Sharp last year I mean there's all these things that could only happen on that show floor and only happen in Chicago where it's the home of pinball so the designers don't have to travel far so everybody is there like this is like the industry show and there's a reason I never leave the show floor for four days there's just so much going on and so much I want to do You know, another thing is, I got a phone call from Jack O'Neary, who's here today. He said, Rob, he said, you know, a lot of people are excited about X-Trope. We're going to have a very large display. He said, we're also going to bring to the show one of every game we've produced from day one. So, Wizard of Oz, Valorant, Hobbit, you name it. every game they've created up to this point in time, including the newsstand, will be on display at the show. And they'll all be there for a free play. So, guys, I don't know what to think about. How do you talk about it? What do you talk about first? There's so much happening and so much going on. And then the podcast guys are getting together and high-fiving and seeing each other. And, you know, there's so many people connecting at the show. That's the one thing, you know, Wednesday night we have an event called the Bumper Blast. and that takes place at the Interium, which is like a family entertainment center. Full admission to the show. They are invited to go to the Interium and the buses will leave from the hotel throughout the night. What makes that cool is, first of all, the food offering there is first class man. Delicious food, everything's made at Z, number one. But number two, this would be the first time you get a chance to meet a lot of the international pinball and food juice. So we have guys coming from Italy, Spain, Japan, Germany. I think we kind of need a 10 or 12 different countries to be represented, but they will all be at the next bowl and they will come to the um, Ontario. But what's cool is you'll meet these guys and they'll just start talking, hey, what's going on? Ivan is from Italy and he's one of my favorite guy because he is the guy if you remember Don a year or two ago, he brought that Radical. That trick, that Radical. I remember that one. I mean, beautiful. If you remember it, Don. When I saw that game in his booth, I said, this will sell. I said, bring it right to my booth. He said, I've got to buy it. But you'll get a chance to see these guys in the interior and sit and talk with them, drink and beer, eat and food, talk with them. The next thing you know, and you've got some new buddies, some new pen pals, whatever you want to call it. And, you know, have lunch with them or dinner, and, you know, because these guys are cool. You know, pinball is universal, let's face it. And pinball actually brings a lot of people all over the globe to the show and you get a chance to meet these people. And a lot of them are great people. I really, really enjoy it. Yeah, I mean, it's a great equalizer, right? Like, you know, you can be high profile or just a typical fan, but everybody's on the same play field there. you know when you get to play together and and uh yeah like i see walls break down between people and it's just like talking about cool shots or or fun combos or or rumors of games coming out or like our favorite games that we've played in the past or have you seen this cool mod or whatever it is and it's it's all in one place i mean you know the classic games that you like but not only that but sometimes like the best versions of that game that you'll ever see like that radical was amazing i mean it was dripping with chrome covered with rad cows everything completely restored. The last time you got to see a game in that good a condition was back when it just came out of the factory. So to see it completely restored as it was fresh off the factory floor in the best condition ever, I mean, yeah, that was amazing. And the one thing I can say is I picked up a couple games I've been bringing to the show this year, and one of them, maybe Donnie remembers one, was made by Ballard. It's called BMX. Okay. I'm not terribly aware of that one Well it's a computer in Google A BMX It was a game made by Wally Walsh And you don't see it too often But it was a low production But I'll be having that next fall There's another game I'll have Which you're going to see By Greg Kermick called Transport And it's another early Valley game So you can look these games up But I'll have it on display for the show And by the way I mentioned Greg Kermick Greg Kermick will be the expo in the RDS session Greg is most famous for designing both Cat and Fantastic and the game called Wizard, if you remember that game from the day. But he's a retired guy, but he was more of an EM guy. But he also, one of the last games he built was Break Shot for Cat Pro. Okay. Greg will be there. And he does not go to any other shows. Greg has a very low profile. but he will be at the autograph session. So, you know, if you're into pinball at all, to see these guys is just fantastic What really cool for me is to see these guys even Rodney Sharp over here and so many others but just to shake their hands and say man thank you for this Thank you for that. And Rodney Space, thank you for what you did in New York City to help legalize pinball in the state of New York. So, you know, it's a chance to really express your feelings to these guys. It's really a cool opportunity. Yeah, 100%, man. I look forward to it every year. I can't believe it's almost upon us. As you're talking, I'm putting down a hit list of things I want to make sure I don't miss. I have to play Mothership now. That game is unreal in how big that is. I don't know how you even transport it. Hexa will be there. You had your space hunt. Thanks for bringing that. That was the first place I got to play one was your personal copy. Now Hexa's in the U.S. There's two distributors now, Pinball Star and Mad Pinball, with Jeff at MadPinball.com, Nitro up in Canada. So we'll see more Hexa. they have passed on to me that they'll be revealing the theme of their follow-up game at Expo. Oh, good. Yeah, yeah, so that's coming. And then the game itself will be seen later next year. But, yeah, we should hear that theme soon. I heard that. We got the Pat Lawler seminar, the Bumper Blast event that goes on, and then autograph signing so you can go and meet everybody in one long walkthrough. So that's not even counting the rest of the homebrew area, all the other brand-new games that will be there, the vendors, all the fun stuff that's brought, and whatever else shenanigans people get up to late into the evening. I want to share something else with you. Yeah. So you know the company called Marco? Okay. The parts and parts. Okay. Marco, that means I see you, right, Marco? Marco, yes, Marco Specialties. Yeah. So Marco, I've been after them for several years to do something for me, and I begged him and pleaded and offered three dinners for life. Nothing worked. Finally, Marco Ramirez finally said, this year your dream will come true. Okay, hit me with it. Marco is getting a 70-foot by 80-foot booth, which is massive. And inside that booth, they're going to have the homebrew, but also inside that booth we're going to have the Marco supermarket and basically what it is it's scratch and dent parts, discontinued parts, overrun the parts and it's going to be a supermarket nothing but full of bargains and deals on buying stuff right off the shelf so you can rummage through the shelf ah I need this ram I can't believe you got it You have no idea. I have no idea what will be there. But they are going to clean out the warehouses and bring all these mislaid parts of supply to the show. I am very excited about that. I might get a bunch of bodyguards around me so I can crush into that thing and be starting to look up some other goodies. It should be a lot of fun. So this is going to be an opportunity to stock up then. I'm going to have to bring a separate trailer or something to bring everything home. Now you're talking. Yeah. Give me those ramps and wire forms. I want to go and build stuff at home. That's amazing. So that could be a lot of fun. There's a guy coming, and I'm glad you're sitting down, Don. There's a guy coming from the country of Hungary, Budapest, Hungary. What in the world is in Budapest, Hungary? There's a manufacturer there that makes play-thru glass. He is coming from Hungary to be selling play-thru glass at the show. Okay. Crazy. Hungry for glass. Yeah. You got it. But, you know, I mean, there's so much going on at the show, guys. Vendors are coming, some for the first time, some of the repeat vendors. And what's happening also is a lot of people who have been to the show, you know, have had a lot of success and they keep requesting larger booths. So some of the layups will be fantastic. One of the great American pinballers out in Chicago, he's getting a booth 30 by 40, which for him is like triple what he normally gets. But he should be bringing so many games and supplies down there. It just, I don't know, to you, this is always, you know, you want to tell you what to do first. But I hope you're staying through the three-day. There's so much going on. Once again, Stern's a donated game. We're going to have a John Wick premium in the raffle, which we're supposed to make a wish. The money will go to make a wish. The Rage of Jackets got a game. I'm not sure what the title is offhand, but they have a game also with their money to go to the Boys and Girls Club of Chicago. So, you know, many times they're coming to get not only the silver goods, but to support and help people that need the help and assistance. So the community is all about pinball, and the pinball is all about the community, and we all be getting on one roof at Pinball Eskimo that weekend. It's around the corner, guys. So I hope you guys make the effort to come. And for those of you that have toured the Stern factory, this is also a very special opportunity. We didn't even talk about the tours. Yeah, you get to tour literally every pinball factory in Chicago, basically. Well, we did that last year for the 40th. I lost my mind, and we had three or four tours, and it was crazy. but Stern's got some giveaways that they're only going to have to be tour people only I don't know what it is if it's a coin, if it's a hat if it's something unique but it'll only be given at the Stern tour so this is intriguing to me they got my interest up I love exclusives well perfect I don't want to take up too much more of your time but anything else we really need to hit about this show? I mean, it's around the corner. We're a couple of weeks out, Wednesday through Saturday, October 15th to the 18th, Schaumburg Renaissance Hotel Expo Center, the place to be, 100,000 square feet, a million games, maybe a little bit less, but, yeah, it's going to be awesome. Oh, also, did I mention the 1930s exhibit? Oh, the pre-war games, yeah. You got it. This year the guy making the booth even larger than last year. Did you see it last year, Don? I did. It was like a little speakeasy setup. A bunch of people in period costumes. Yeah, it was nuts. So they're doing that again, and this time, like last year, they're going to do a 1930s tournament. I don't care what level of skills you got. Anyone can play a 1930s game. There's no flipper. There's no tilt. All you do is kind of give it a little bump or nudge. That's all you can do. But that was such a popular attraction last year. Guys, make sure you make a point. Don, put that on your hit list. I've got to hit the 1930s. Perfect. There are going to be a ton of games to play, and there will be some for sale there, too. Another great thing, another great adventure in pinball. I don't know how I'm going to see it all, but I'm going to be there every day. I can't wait, man. One more thing. There are two movies there. Two movies. Okay. Mark Helms, it's called Pinball, the American Game, and another guy making a movie called For Your Amusement. Two new pinball movies that will be shown. I'm not sure if they're movies or if they're documentaries or whatever, but they'll be also shown in the evening there at XO. And will this be over in the seminar room? Yes. All right. Well, Don, I thank you for allowing me to speak on your great podcast channel, and I really hope that you and others will make an effort to check out more of Expo. As much as you focus on one thing, maybe it's time to start checking other things out. Yeah, and Rob, I can appreciate the amount of work that goes into throwing on an event like this every year, so thanks so much for your enthusiasm and for putting together a forum like this so we get to count on for new games, old games, rating Marco's back store now, as well as some films. I'm going to live in the homebrew area for the most part. I'm seriously excited about Mothership that thing is a spectacle well we look forward to seeing you back keep your mic out you'll have enough people you can interview to give up enough information for the next 20 years perfect well thanks so much Rob appreciate it alright buddy all the best alright thanks bye bye