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Episode 181 - Pro vs Prem

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 13m·analyzed·Nov 28, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Stern updates, CCR topper fixes, Twippies format pivot, Drained P3 module pricing analysis

Summary

Eclectic Gamers discusses Stern production updates (James Bond Pro shipping, discontinuation of Star Wars and Jurassic Park home editions), Chicago Gaming Company's CCR LE topper fix via grinding, Twippies awards format changes, and a detailed analysis of Nick Baldridge's new P3 module 'Drained' (vampire-themed EM-inspired game) at $3,500 with $2,000 deposit, comparing its commercial viability to existing EM machines.

Key Claims

  • Star Wars and Jurassic Park home edition pins are being discontinued after final production runs

    high confidence · Dennis reports learning from Zach Minney at the pinball show that these are 'last calls' on both games. Star Wars has had multiple runs; Jurassic Park only had two runs total despite being noted as a great seller.

  • Chicago Gaming Company ground down CCR LE toppers at bench grinders to fix fitting issues

    high confidence · Dennis references earlier NAP Arcade rumors about toppers being too big, then confirms reports came out that CGC ground the edges down with bench grinders to solve the problem.

  • CCR LE production delays exceeded one year, causing at least one customer to switch to a different CGC game

    high confidence · Dennis notes someone at the tournament had moved their CCR LE order to another CGC game due to the year-plus wait, and references prior criticism of extended production timelines.

  • Twippies 2024 will not have a live stream and will be recorded at Texas Pinball Festival

    high confidence · Dennis reports from Loser Kid interview with Will O'Edding that they 'dropped doing a live stream entirely' and will record at TPF with VOD release later.

  • Drained is the first third-party module commercially released for the Multimorphic P3 system

    high confidence · Dennis explicitly states 'This is the first time that a third-party module has been released for the P3' and credits Nick Baldridge's company for handling the manufacturing.

  • Drained module is priced at $3,500 with a $2,000 deposit required

    high confidence · Dennis states the kit is $3,500 and requires $2,000 deposit, and confirms this matches the Weird Al module pricing.

  • Functional EM pinball machines are available for under $3,500, creating pricing competition for Drained

    medium confidence · Dennis cites Pinside pricing research showing top 10 EMs available under $3,500, questioning the module's competitive position against used EM machines.

Notable Quotes

  • “I just found it a little – I mean maybe by Home Pin standards it was a great seller, but clearly it's not – that's either not great enough to keep – well, no. That's clearly not great enough to keep around.”

    Dennis @ ~11:20 — Reflects skepticism about Stern's decision to discontinue Jurassic Park home edition despite labeling it a 'great seller'

  • “My strategy would have been drop doing it at TPF and go back to doing it live stream. You're compromising so many – I mean what's the goal for it would be the question.”

    Tony @ ~24:15 — Expresses disagreement with Twippies strategic pivot away from live streaming, questioning the audience reach implications

  • “The whole point of live streaming, even if you prerecord it and put it out like as a YouTube premiere, is so that everyone in the chat is learning things at the same time, and they're all in the event together.”

    Tony @ ~24:45 — Articulates the value proposition of live streaming for community engagement versus recorded VOD releases

  • “I'm not convinced that they're doing any actual meaningful steps to prevent fraudulent votes. And I get it. It's hard. That's why I hate people's choice is because you're inviting ballot stuffing through services and everything.”

    Dennis @ ~25:30 — Details structural concerns about Twippies voting integrity and the vulnerability of crowd-voting mechanisms

  • “Coin Op Carnival that publication that Ryan Claytor and Nick Baldridge did lost to Pinball Magazine's newsletters Pinball Magazine didn't have an issue out Even the Pinball Magazine editor was like, this doesn't really make sense.”

    Dennis @ ~27:15 — Provides specific historical example of Twippies voting flaws, cited as turning point for his skepticism of the awards

  • “There are people who are already committed on P3 systems that, and this is my judgment, this is my estimation, there are a number of those people that hunger for anything that adds value to their system.”

    Dennis @ ~46:30 — Identifies P3 ecosystem loyalty as a purchasing driver independent of game quality or style preference

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyChicago Gaming CompanycompanyMultimorphiccompanyNick BaldridgepersonRaymond DavidsonpersonWill O'EddingpersonZach MinneypersonRyan ClaytorpersonDennisperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Raymond Davidson created Baby's First tutorial series (Rush, Avengers Infinity Quest) responding to community demand for concise rule guides

    high · Dennis describes community enthusiasm for the series: 'So many people went and commented about how much they love the baby first tutorial' and 'he's found himself that...we all babies out in the world and we all need a baby's first experience.'

  • ?

    event_signal: Twippies 2024 pivoting from live stream format to recorded Texas Pinball Festival event with VOD release, following technical failures in 2023

    high · Dennis: 'Last year's was the worst ceremony I have ever seen' with preset video issues. Will O'Edding: dropping live stream entirely, recording at TPF, VOD release 'at some point.'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Chicago Gaming Company resolved CCR LE topper sizing issue through bench grinding solution after extended production delay

    high · Dennis: 'reports have now come out from CGC that they are shipping CCRLs...they just took them all to a bench top grinder and they just grinded the edge.' Toppers were too large for machines; delay exceeded one year.

  • $

    market_signal: Drained module targets existing P3 ecosystem owners hungry for content additions to justify platform investment, rather than new EM machine buyers

    medium · Dennis: 'there are a number of those people that hunger for anything that adds value to their system' and 'I think there are a number of them that will buy everything, regardless, honestly, if they are interested in the style.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Multiple industry figures (Jeff Teolis, Dr. Pin) approached to host Twippies 2024 but declined; organizers still searching for co-host alongside Omoto

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.222

0:00
Welcome to the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, November 27th. This is episode 181. I'm Tony. I'm Dennis. And, oh, we have a lot of exciting stuff to go through today. Actually, no, I think it's a modest episode. I don't think there's a ton. But well-balanced. I feel we have about the same. I mean, we'll see how it goes once we record. But as I like to do at the start of these shows, thanking the latest Patreon members. Or you can go to patreon.com slash eclectic underscore gamers and support us via Patreon. We have one new member at the intermediate tier, Frank. So welcome, Frank, to the Patreon. Welcome. And I guess now let's go ahead and do introductions. So you've had, I see, I see notes here. I've got notes. Nothing, nothing major. Nothing, nothing huge. You've got like six sub bullets. I know, but they're minor sub bullets.
1:08
There's been, like my whole family has been sick through Thanksgiving break. So we've done like nothing family oriented and we haven't, we didn't, we didn't do any of the family stuff. So my whole family break has been just randomized weirdness. Like I binge watched. I spent a day binge watching wristwatch revival videos oh yeah he's he does something in magic like he's a judge in Magic the Gathering yeah I've seen that he's got Magic the Gathering mats on his desk yeah I looked up somewhere where he came up elsewhere and they're like oh yeah no he's like he's really well known in magic he's a commentator that's what he is he casts a lot of magic like he's a color commentary or play-by-play. I don't know which. Anyway, watches are just his hobby, but he's very good at it. It makes me feel like a... Granted, he puts a lot more time in than I do. Yeah, I was watching. It's one of those things I know I couldn't do. My eyesight is not good enough to be able to manage. I'd have to have the 12 layers of loops in front of my eyes. I know that for a fact.
2:16
I also finished Wolves of the Cala. I'm moving on to Song of Susanna. Those are Dark Tower books. Yeah, of the Dark Tower books that I've been working my way through.

Toy Story 4 stretched out tournament length by requiring additional rounds due to strike equalization

high confidence · Tony describes the tournament format and credits Toy Story 4 specifically with causing the extended play, noting final round adjustments needed.

  • “You can get functional EMs for under $3,500 is the issue. So one of the commercial challenges that I think is interesting, this is obviously going to explore, is if you're talking about EM style gameplay, how competitive is a module versus when the games are actually full games or cheaper?”

    Dennis @ ~43:45 — Frames the core market viability question for third-party P3 modules against used EM machines

  • “I took my satin brushes and just went, and then I used my deburring brush and went, and then I was like, and I used the blue polishing compound, which says on the thing, this is good for plastic.”

    Dennis @ ~19:00 — Humorously describes attempting watch case restoration, paralleling the CCR topper grinding solution

  • “It's not like here's literally an EM game. You're not having to worry about the maintenance and upkeep on an EM, which is very intimidating to a lot of people.”

    Dennis @ ~45:00 — Identifies maintenance burden reduction as a potential value proposition for modern EM-styled modules over vintage machines

  • “Now Drained is a vampire-themed game, but it's also a module. This is the first time that a third-party module has been released for the P3.”

    Dennis @ ~30:45 — Marks significant industry milestone of third-party module release on P3 platform

    • Tonyperson
    James Bond (Gomez design)game
    Drainedgame
    Star Wars (home edition)game
    Jurassic Park (home edition)game
    CCR LEgame
    Toy Story 4game
    Avengers Infinity Questgame
    Jungle Queengame
    Ghostbustersgame
    Twippiesevent
    Nubs Puborganization
    403organization
    Ranger in the Ruinsgame
    Weird Al (P3 module)game

    medium · Dennis: 'Jeff Teolis...had noted on social media he had been approached about hosting the Twippies and he said no. Dr. Penn...was approached and said no.'

  • $

    market_signal: P3 third-party module pricing ($3,500 for Drained) faces competitive pressure from used EM machines priced under $3,500

    high · Dennis: 'you can get functional EMs for under $3,500 is the issue' and 'people aren't buying new EMs, they buy old EMs. So you talk about a whole EM pinball machine and they're under $2,500 and adding an extra thousand is an interesting question.'

  • $

    market_signal: Home pinball edition pricing elevated to old Pro machine levels ($2,000+), reducing value proposition versus used commercial Pro alternatives

    high · Dennis: 'They are priced above what I bought Star Trek 4 new back in 2015' and 'they're up to old – not super old pro prices, old pro prices' and 'why get that when you can – I mean, $2,000 is $2,000, but I think a lot of people are probably saying, you know what? I'd rather have a pro.'

  • ?

    product_launch: Stern discontinuing Star Wars and Jurassic Park home edition pins after raising prices above old Pro pricing levels

    high · Dennis: 'These are the last calls on both of those. They're discontinuing those home edition pins.' Zach Minney confirmed via pinball show discussion. Star Wars had multiple runs; Jurassic Park only two total.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Multimorphic P3 platform achieved first commercial third-party module release with Nick Baldridge's Drained, establishing ecosystem expansion pathway

    high · Dennis: 'This is the first time that a third-party module has been released for the P3' and notes Nick established separate company to handle manufacturing/fulfillment independently.

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Toy Story 4 pinball game created extended tournament duration due to strike equalization mechanics requiring additional qualifying rounds

    high · Tony: 'This is what happens when you put Toy Story 4 in a tournament' and describes format where final three required additional round due to score balancing, extending event past 10 PM.

    • 2:30
    Between being sick, because I was sick on Tuesday and still feeling a little off on Wednesday and started getting better.
    2:38
    I've done like no 5K prep this week. I've done, I mean, my 5K, I haven't really been talking about it because I've literally been going to the gym and using like a elliptical machine because it's super low impact because my ankles and hip have been bothering me so bad for the last like two months. So I've been doing the more low impact versions of things. So I haven't had any real fun stories. Nobody wants the fun story of I watched Stargate SG-1 while going on an elliptical.
    3:09
    It's just not that interesting. But otherwise, not a whole lot. Well, I did play in a pinball tournament last weekend. You did very well. I did all right. You did very well. It finished, it looked like, about 10 till 10 p.m. Because I did not stay around. Yeah. Which is good, because I took seventh. I tied for seventh. And, gosh, it just, this is what happens when you put Toy Story 4 in a tournament. Yeah. We ended up with, it was, Toy Story 4 was the game that stretched everything out. And I ended up taking second place, which is my best ever finish at that tournament.
    3:49
    Actually, my best ever finish at any tournament now that I think about it. Was it? I couldn't remember. I know you've been top three at 403 before. I've been top three before, but I've not been two. I've been third before. I've been fourth multiple times. But this is, I think, second might be my best finish ever. It's all that Nubs Pub training. Yeah, it's all the Nubs Pub training we did. But it was a really good time. It stretched out because it was going into The final round We were running It was a four strike Version is that we were doing Going into it The final round the final three Two of us had three strikes and one had two And We were both above him So we had to do another round of three Because he just equalized This out I had a couple games that I got lucky and just really popped off on throughout the night, like Infinity Quest, Avengers Infinity Quest. I had a good pop-off on Avengers Infinity Quest that got me through. I also had a very lucky Ball 5 on Jungle Queen.
    4:57
    I earned 50,000 points on Ball 5 on Jungle Queen, which took me from deep in last place to first place, which kept me alive because I'd actually going into jungle queen with the people I was playing against. And that would have been my final strike. I assumed I was out. So I ordered the dessert stuff that I normally for the family that I take home to the family from pizza West. And then I went and played it on a ball five. I just blew ball five up and it's like, okay. And then I, I just, there were multiple games after that, that I just kept squeaking by. So, uh, it was a lot of fun. It worked out pretty well. I only had to play Toy Story like twice, and I won one, and I got a strike on one.
    5:41
    A lot of people, I mean, Ghostbusters was being pretty mean to people. Yeah. It was playing real bad. That one last time felt like it was ultra rough, and Ghostbusters is never a particularly friendly game. Right, but it was like rougher than, it had a couple of like, I know I had at least three shots.
    6:02
    that it did not. Didn't register? It didn't register. I had, I think at least, I think it was on two separate games, but I had two balls that straight down the middle feeding out of the left orbit. Yeah, I had that happen once as well. Something bent or something because it's like it shouldn't feed like that. Yeah, I had that happen once as well, but the ball save was still going. So I was okay. But I had three times, and it was always on skill shot to start the scene, the scene start skill shot where I hit it clean. I hit it clean, no problem, and it did not register, which greatly affects your score. Yeah, the scenes are somewhat important. You're kind of in jail. It's like Star Trek. If you don't have a mission going, it's very difficult to earn many points. Yeah, yeah. So that was my two weeks. Well, good job. Congratulations. Oh, and I've pretty much finished my college classes for this fall. All I have left to do is I have to give a presentation. But everything else is done, so I can. It's all coming together. It's all coming up pinball. Now, did you, in order to do that really solid game on Avengers Infinity Quest, watch the baby's first tutorial on Avengers Infinity Quest?
    7:23
    No. Okay. So for listeners that don't know, Mr. Raymond Davidson, who did – he does rules for Stern Pinball. He's a top pinball player as well. And after our last episode where we talked about going to Nub's Pub and I lamented how there was this video that Raymond put out, a tutorial on Rush, but it was over 20 minutes long. And so I was like, ain't nobody got time for that, and I didn't watch it. So of course I didn't know what I was doing on Rush. And so he is familiar with the Baby's First series, which if you are on our Patreon, you also are familiar with my Baby's First series. So he made a Baby's First. He even took the duck I use, which I in turn had stolen from someone else. He took my duck. He took my Baby's First, and he did a Baby's First Rush tutorial, which I watched and was really good. I think there's a tone in it, a tone of just shoot the shot. I just shoot the flashing shot. Kind of like a don't be dumb. Don't be dumb. But so many people went and commented about how much they love the baby first tutorial. He did a baby's first Avengers. And I saw it was out. He released it the day of the tournament. I didn't remember that Avengers was there. And otherwise, I would have watched the baby's first Avengers. I don't think I saw it until the next day is the reason. Right. It's like I could have used that because I had Avengers and I don't remember if I took a strike on it or not, but it would have been helpful to have it. So I think now he's found himself that – I think he – I think Raymond by default wants to do long form, highly detailed review videos. But now he doesn't understand that we all babies out in the world and we all need a baby's first experience. So anyway, so there's a baby's first inspired by the baby's first memes that I do that are helping people become better pinball players. And you mentioned Risk Watch Revival. We have a listener who – and I'll talk more about it when I actually am done. But he sent me a watch, a Citizen EcoDrive watch that got like hit by a car. He found it in a road. Wow. And so I got polishing equipment for my birthday, like a bench-style one. So I've been trying that. And this is going to be Baby's first case restoration because actually I'm pretty happy with the case of the watch. The case back, though, had some deep gouges. And I think this was probably at the point where you can't really buff that out well. Right. Because I'm like I'm trying not to lose text on it. But like trying to take it down with really aggressive brushes and stuff, it just doesn't look good. But it's the back. So anyway, it's got character. You just want to take them. You want to take the edges off. So you're not slitting your wrist. Right. And it's now where it doesn't. Yeah. Obviously, it's not because I've focused more on some areas than others. It's not the smooth. It's not even. It's smooth, but it's it's not flat. I stopped before. Like, there's still scratches. I'm like, I think the only solution to this normally would be to weld more metal onto it would be the answer. Right. And there are people that do that. Yes. If cases are over polished, you can send them in to people who will like micro weld metal back on to restore the original shape. It is not cheap. But, you know, if you have a Rolex, maybe you want to do maybe you want to do that if it actually got polished that much by by like an amateur. Right. So anyway, so there's been doing that. And I've been playing a lot of Far Cry 6, which was a game I got back on my birthday. But because of this sort of like four day weekend with Thanksgiving, I've actually been able to invest a whole lot of time. And so my last of my updates would be – so for the 5K we have next month, I don't remember if I mentioned it last time. Like I've injured – it feels like almost like sciatica or something. I was jogging, and like right when my leg landed at one point, it felt like all of a sudden I had hurt myself, like pulled a – not bad, but like pulled a muscle.
    11:27
    And it's like, okay, well, what could this be? and it hasn't gotten better or at least not noticeably better fast. So it's not a muscle because my muscles don't take that long to heal. Plus, any muscles I touch feel fine. And it also, once my leg is warmed up, it feels fine. So it's not like a microfracture to the bone. It's not feeling like that either. So I think just because of doing the same motion and path over and over and over, I have pinched a nerve a bit. And it started to feel better this weekend, but it's still there. So I've scaled myself way back. Instead of doing the route I was doing, I'm doing a much flatter route. And I've only been going two miles to minimize the impact on it while not – because I don't want to fall back to where I am out of breath in the first mile. because I'm going to be like, okay, it hurts so much. Because I can do the two and I don't, other than my leg being a little stiff afterwards. It's been okay. Yeah, no.
    12:33
    Once that's over, no more Patreon requests for runs. I'm going to say that right now. All right. So intros are out of the way. Let's get into pinball. We do have a few items I wanted to go over. We have an email that I want to respond to that we should have done last episode. And through my sheer ignorance, just completely forgot to paste it into our notes. So I did this time, but we'll do that towards the tail end. So let's cover the news first, and let's start with Stern Pinball. Just a couple of production items I thought might be of interest to the listeners. The first one is James Bond, the Gomez design game. The pro models are now finally shipping. In fact, I read that here in Kansas City, we already now have two locations with Bond. They just got them within the last week. Right. I saw that 403 had them. Yes. And then the other one, I cannot recall if they – you don't know. Is that Nubz? I was going to say it's either Pizza West or Nubz. I don't remember what – because I looked at the photo because I wanted to see which game did they pull. I'm not sure which one they pulled. Hopefully it was.
    13:37
    Yeah. I know which one you wish was pulled. We won't say it. I don't want to hear from Raymond. All right. So – oh, and another thing. So the home edition games that they do, Star Wars and Jurassic Park, those are about to be built. And that's often the case that they build them like before Christmas because I assume that's when they see the surge in sales on those. However, what was interesting, and I learned this from Zach Minney when we did the – who was a distributor and we did the pinball show last week. These are the last calls on both of those. They're discontinuing those home edition pins. Now, Star Wars has been out for a number of years. But Jurassic Park only had one other build, Jurassic Park Home Edition. It was last year.
    14:22
    And I just remember because when they onboarded Jack Danger to – because he's working on Cornerstone now. They had noted about what a great seller it was.
    14:32
    But they're only – It's going to have two runs total. So I just found it a little – I mean maybe by Home Pin standards it was a great seller, but clearly it's not – that's either not great enough to keep – well, no. That's clearly not great enough to keep around. Otherwise, if it's a licensing issue, they're still doing Jurassic Park Elwynn editions. Right. Clearly, that's not it. But we have to remember, they raised the price on those things. They are priced above what I bought Star Trek 4 new back in 2015. See, that's insane. Yeah, they're up to old – not super old pro prices, old pro prices. Yeah, it's – why get that when you can – I mean, $2,000 is $2,000, but I think a lot of people are probably saying, you know what? I'd rather have a pro than all the simplified early 90s or late 80s rule sets that come on the home edition.
    15:24
    The home editions are a great idea. They're way too expensive for what they are, though, in my opinion. I think it was the Star Wars that had a ball catch where you could catch a ball in it and then knock it out later. Yeah, Jurassic Park had a really cool feature as well. I think it was like a jumping ramp sort of thing, not like a lame one like Raza either, like one that made sense. But anyway, it is what it is. Speaking of ising what ising, Chicago Gaming Company. So we talked last episode about how we had seen on NAP Arcade that there were some rumblings about – The toppers were too big. They didn't fit on top of the machines. That was what you had read between the lines and figured out. Well, I guess the shrink ray from Honey, I Shrunk the Kids has been perfected because reports have now come out from CGC that they are shipping CCRLs. There's no shrink ray. They just took them all to a bench top grinder and they just grinded the edge and they ground the edges down. My baby's first polishing was fix these for us. Yeah, that's what it was. I took my satin brushes and just went, and then I used my deburring brush and went, and then I was like, and I used the blue polishing compound, which says on the thing, this is good for plastic.
    16:45
    That's what I did. Just took three wheels. Just worked it down. Be like that guy you see on YouTube who starts with like three-grit polishing compound and goes to like 1.9 million-grit polishing compound, just polishing something until it's got a beer-like finish. I found this rusty plant staking pole. Now it's a samurai sword. Like what the – I remember the part where you folded the metal 30 times. What the heck? Some of these people are very impressive.
    17:13
    Anyway, it's too expensive for me to build my own smelt. that's my that's my shield for not doing it so anyway so good news for ccr le uh fans we actually are i don't know if you had spoken to him at the same time i was talking to someone at the tournament you got second in and he had actually had an order in for ccr le and i believe he said he moved it to another cgc game because of how long this wait was to get the le which i I mean, it's been over a year, and we've often criticized productions that take over a year.
    17:49
    Another little item that I wasn't going to spend because I've been critical of the format for quite a while, but I don't want to just like turn this into a wine fest. So the Twippies, the This Week in Pinball awards, those are – the pre-voting is underway. I have not and am not pre-voting. I'm actually not planning to vote at all, but FYI for those that care.
    18:16
    There was an interview on Loser Kid with Will O'Edding, who is running it this year. Jeff isn Will is running the awards And I guess at least unless they change their mind they dropped doing a live stream entirely It's just going to be at TPF. And I guess they're going to record it and throw a VOD up after at some point. But he, on the episode, the episode is really interesting. So I recommend if you're not already subscribed to Loser Kid, go and search in your, just search in your favorite podcatcher and subscribe to Loser Kid because they do a really good podcast and it's a good interview. But he really just came out and and full kudos to him for being super transparent about but will was just like i'm here to temper expectations like this isn't the golden globes don't come dressed up to this i mean you can if you want to but don't try and like make this a gala event uh we're not we're still working on the hosting it sounds like a moto is actually going to be back to hosting again but they're looking for a second host uh other because it was her and jack danger last time. And I guess there I've been hearing from other people like Jeff Teolis. I know he had noted on social media he had been approached about hosting the Twippies and he said no. Dr. Penn, who we've had we've had his wife, Mrs. Penn's pinball podcast host on our show before he hosts over with Chris Franchi and Jeff Parsons, the super awesome pinball show. He was approached and said no. So they're trying to find someone.
    19:51
    I mean, they could end up doing a solo, you know, just Omoto, I suppose, but I don't know if they've found someone yet or not, is my point. But anyway, it was just like, it's going to be here. We're going to do it at TPF.
    20:02
    I think it makes sense to dial things back. The whole livestream attempts and stuff from last year, they had big issues with the preset videos. There were so many issues with last year's that it makes sense to dial way back on that kind of thing.
    20:18
    I mean, last year's was the worst ceremony I have ever seen for them. Right. And that goes a long way to say it was worse than the first one. Right. And the first one was just rough. Like, just in terms of, that was like, what was that? Zach and Greg were in a basement, and that one was only live streamed. Now, if you mean like the first time it was at the Texas Pinball Festival as well, you I thought that one went fairly well, but that was like the third year at that point.
    20:47
    I don't disagree about doing the scaling back. I do disagree that the strategy here – it wouldn't have been my strategy. My strategy would have been drop doing it at TPF and go back to doing it live stream. You're compromising so many – I mean what's the goal for it would be the question. If the goal is to celebrate pinball, you're going to reach way fewer people doing it as a live event. Ain't no one going back and catching the VOD. So they're going to go and they're going to read it after. They're going to read Baby's first summary, and they're going to know the results. The whole point of live streaming, even if you prerecord it and put it out like as a YouTube premiere, is so that everyone in the chat is learning things at the same time, and they're all in the event together. That obviously isn't going to happen because the results are going to leak out as soon as it happens at TPF, even if you choose to hold back on publishing. So I would have said don't do it. If it's too hard to do both, do it online. That would have been my recommendation. That's not the way they're going. I'm sure TPF really wanted it at TPF because it's an event that will like suck three hours of time in the seminar block. So yeah, and I think it's a huge draw. We've seen that every time. I don't know if I'll go after last year though. And I mean the side effect of the tempering of the expectations is I don't expect it to be a good show. It was so bad. I should have walked out. It was so bad. Half of the people did.
    22:19
    And so – There were so many issues last year. It was – So rough. And there were issues for the online folks too. So anyway, I'm not – I get it. Will is trying to make it smooth and okay. But I've already – I have problems with how the – they explain the voting. I'm still not convinced that they're doing any actual meaningful steps to prevent fraudulent votes. And I get it. It's hard. That's why I hate people's choice is because you're inviting ballot stuffing through services and everything. Like checking email addresses and IP addresses is not enough when these services is paid. You pay a service and they send in people to go in and vote. Individual real human beings are doing the votes. It's not a bot. They go in and they get something for it, compensation in one way or another. And they're all on their own IPs and they all have their own email addresses. That's how it works. And there ain't really a way to detect it unless you were to like pre invite the people to vote. And that's not people's choice. So anyway, that I'm mulling. But anyway, for those that are interested, it's out there.
    23:24
    If you want to ask for EGP votes, you can. I'm not because I don't I just don't care. I don't care I don't think this award is prestigious you know the part that I've always had a problem with it and I've talked about it every year you're probably like Dennis you talk about it every year you know the thing that sealed it for me was the year when Coin Op Carnival that publication that Ryan Claytor and Nick Baldridge did lost to Pinball Magazine's newsletters Pinball Magazine didn't have an issue out Even the Pinball Magazine editor was like, this doesn't really make sense. I'm like, no, except your magazine is very famous and people voted the name instead of just not voting at all. And a publication that was well-written, well-researched and well-drawn didn't win. And I was like, this is why it's flawed. This is – it's flawed. that was my that was the turning point when I was like no any evidence I need is shown right here that some email lists newsletters I mean that's how they justified it being allowed to win because it's like there was no magazine out why is it but that's not what people were voting they were voting they remember the magazine because the magazine's good but there wasn't a magazine that year anyway and I use that because not only is it a travesty it's a transition for my next topic which is Drained, the newest module that Nick Baldrige has designed for the P3. Now, this is his fourth game that he's done for the P3. He's got one that's not publicly commercially available, Quest for Glory, which is the first one I was aware of him working on. Then he has the available Ranger in the Ruins, which is his roguelike. And then he's also got that Silver Falls, which is Sims-like. Can I say, is Sims a genre? I mean, yeah, I guess. It's like a life simulation thingy, mabobber. Yeah. So now Drained is a vampire-themed game, but it's also a module. This is the first time that a third-party module has been released for the P3. And, of course, Nick is the one who does it. Right. He's the one doing the majority of the third-party work. It feels like it. I mean, that's what it seems like is that anytime you hear about third party and the P3, it's Nick. Well, P3 is one of those systems that Nick's really passionate about. Right. So he invests a lot of his project time into it. And I and we've talked about this before, of course. So, again, I don't want to go on ad nauseum on everything. But, you know, one of the things that from like a developer standpoint, I can see the attraction of having something like P3 where so much of the system is already in place. And so you're it's not like coming up with a cabinet from scratch and the back box from scratch and all, you know, all those other elements. Those things are solved for you already. You can focus in on a game either with a layout that already exists or in this case, Nick's like, I want to do my own layout. So the thing is, and I have a link in the show notes to the trailer video, which is really – I like the music in it. It's very Castlevania. It's like 8-bit or 16-bit Castlevania style.
    26:49
    But in terms of features, this is an EM-inspired game. So it's got – which, again, is very Nick. It's very Nick. So it's got a knocker. It's got a bell. It has a gobble, an actual gobble. I don't mean like a pretend gobble. The ball fell into the play field and then it popped up somewhere. That's a subway, guys. Gobble hole takes the ball out of play. Yes. I did see someone online. I think it was on Pinside. Ask if the gobble hole meant that the ball fell through to the cabinet.
    27:17
    That's not practical. Nick responded really nicely about how gobble holes work. Dennis wouldn't be so nice. He'd be like, are you kidding me? Yes. The balls just fall into the cabinet. That thing over here. How much does the P3 system weigh? Like 9,000 pounds? I don't know. I round it up. But now it's 10,000 because it's full of balls down there, just a pile of balls. Just a pile of balls. It's everywhere. It's like how many balls does the trough on the P3 hold? It's like 14 or something. I was like, well, it has to. Otherwise, you'd be constantly opening it every time you put a ball in the gobble hole. It's down in the cabinet rolling around on the speakers and stuff.
    27:58
    I swear. Okay. Anyway, so it has a gobble hole. it's a single level layout, symmetrically designed in terms of, well, everything, the whole thing, including the module, obviously it does have sweepable drop targets. And I think he did this with Ranger in the Ruins as well. My, I don't remember on Silver Falls, but there's also streamer integration. So if you're like live streaming the game, Twitch or whatnot can actually send commands to do stuff during the game. So, so that's the basics of it. Go ahead and take a look at it in the trailer. If you want to see more, There is supposed to be a gameplay live stream, I think, Monday. But obviously, Monday is not when this episode comes out, so we're not able to comment on gameplay because that hasn't happened yet. I will note, though, the kit is $3,500, and it does require a $2,000 deposit. And that's probably where we need to have a conversation, Tony, because that's – I mean, it's a lot. I believe this is less than the Weird Al module, but to me this is an interesting – so I'll start with my thoughts, and then you can time in. Because I think Tony's eyes got a little wide when I told him the pricing. And obviously, I'm sure Nick had to factor in – one of the things I wondered was how was this going to work if someone made a third-party module? Was Multimorphic going to build it? Well, that was a question. And no, Nick has a – I believe it's for amusement only games set up as a – I don't know if it's an LLP, an LLC. I don't remember. But he has his own company set up for this. So you have to buy – I mean it's truly third party. You have to buy it. He has to handle the order. He has to handle however he's going to have it built. All of that goes through the third party. So it is truly third party. The issue commercially that comes up for someone like me is you can get a lot of, at least last I looked, and I did do a little bit of research again with Pinside pricing averages out of the top 10 EMs, and you can get functional EMs for under $3,500 is the issue. So one of the commercial challenges that I think is interesting, this is obviously going to explore, is if you're talking about EM style gameplay,
    30:24
    how competitive is a module versus when the games are actually full games or cheaper? Because with everything else with Multimorphic, the advertising thing is the module is less than buying a new pinball machine. That is still true with this, but people aren't buying new EMs, they buy old EMs. So you talk about a whole EM pinball machine and they're under $2,500 and adding an extra thousand is an interesting question. Now, that being said, while this is EM-esque, it isn't an EM game, obviously. It's still using the screen. It's still using the P3 stuff. So there is modernity in it. It's not like here's literally an EM game. You're not having to worry about the maintenance and upkeep on an EM, which is very intimidating to a lot of people. So there's that aspect. Plus, there's also what I have to call the P3 factor. There are people who are already committed on P3 systems that, and this is my judgment, this is my estimation, there are a number of those people that hunger for anything that adds value to their system. And I think there are a number of them that will buy everything, regardless, honestly, if they are interested in the style or skeptical of the style. I think they'll commit because they need more things to justify the initial investment into the system. And this is obviously something that will give them yet another module that they can enjoy. What do you think? I was looking at it. It is the same price as Weird Al. $3,500 is what they have listed on their website for Weird Al. And, I mean, it's always the problem that we've had with P3 is the cost. I'm looking at the pictures of it now. It looks interesting. The question is, is it worth $3,500? And I think to people with a P3, it might be. That's always going to be the issue is when you decide you're done with P3, you have to sell everything. My take is, given some of the social media posts and stuff, is Jerry, who owns Multimorphic, the goal is to make people never want to get rid of the system. He doesn't want the systems to be bought. I don't know if he cares all that much, but it's not his goal to have them trade hands. Second market value shouldn't matter. Everyone who buys a P3 should own the P3 forever because we keep putting out new stuff for it. And then as the audience grows, you might be able to horse trade on modules and stuff. But again, their business model is advantaged by people not selling the modules also because they would rather sell them direct than have people like, hey, I'll trade you my cosmic kart racing module if you'll trade me the Weird Al module sort of thing. That doesn't make them any money. Just like secondary sales don't make any pinball companies any money. And I mean that's the reason so many – on the video game side, so much stuff is going to the digital download because then there are no secondary sales. Right. You don't have that entire used market anymore. You'd have to sell your whole Steam account. Right. And nobody wants to buy my Steam account. No. Not after you bought all those Valve games. Exactly. But, yeah, I mean, the price, like I said, is always the catch-out thing. I said, I'm looking at the pictures. It looks cool. I love sweepable drop targets.
    33:33
    I love that there's a knocker. Heck, I love that there's a gobble hole. I find that hilarious in a machine at this day and age, even though, as I recall, when I actually play games with them, they're rage-inducing.
    33:45
    The price is the same conversation we've had multiple times. But I think, like you said, you actually get a fairly large amount of mechanical stuff with this one compared to some of the others. I get it. The factor is the EMS. There are a lot of people that do not like EM-style games. The interesting thing to me is, we'll go from interesting to the question to me is, are the people who really like EM style games also P3 owners? Or is the P3 like the antithesis of what they like about EM style games? I don't know that it's mutually exclusive like that. I mean, obviously Nick loves the P3. Right. And he's made some of the best games on P3 so far. I actually haven't played any of his games. I thought they had the Ranger in the Ruin One of the places If they did I didn't play it I didn't see it or I would have Maybe I'm misremembering I've only played his multi bingo Is the only thing I've worked on Worked on I don't know I did terrible He was nice enough not to say I sucked At the bingo but I did like the multi bingo I didn't I did terrible at it Oh, but you can be terrible at something and still enjoy it. No, I only like things I'm good at. Well, don't worry. Most of the rest of the world agrees with you. See, I represent the common man. I can enjoy things that I'm bad at. After all, if I didn't, I wouldn't enjoy anything. Oh, that's not true at all. but definitely I, I would like to play it. Yeah, no, I want to play all of these. It's unfortunate that, uh, you know, because it's a third party thing and this is a guess, I don't know if this is true or not, but like, I don't, unless someone, unless an owner or Nick is at say TPF, for example, would Jerry put drained in one of the lineups when they're trying to sell the first party things? I would assume no. So that's where I, why I don't think I've ever seen the third party stuff is the third party's misremembering games. The game I was thinking of that we played was the sorcerer's apprentice. And that's first part. That's first party. Yeah. My apologies. I was incorrect. So, cause I, I always look cause I went up, I want to try all of Nick's games because even though there's an obvious answer to that, you need to buy a P3. I need to go to York. Oh, well going to York would be cheaper. I think he's always at York. I'm not sure. I mean, I'm not buying a P3. It would be cheap. I am. I'm not buying a P3. I'm not in the market for the P3, and I probably never will be. I mean, it would be cheaper to fly and rent a hotel room for a few days. Obviously. Like, fly first class, get a nice hotel room for a few days. Do you know how many Halloweens I could buy for a P3? Do you have any idea?
    36:47
    Throw in an Ultraman. They're even cheaper. Yeah. Even cheaper. yeah but you know some of the games I like some of the games I don like you know we always said on it Anyway it a really cool achievement So congratulations to Nick for accomplishing this and just trailblazing what third parties can do on the system I'm deeply excited by the fact that there is a third-party module. I think that is a big positive overall for the system. I think it speaks to the promise of what the system has wanted to be for a long time. To see someone actually do it shows to others that it's an achievable goal if you want to do it as well. Correct. So anyway, so I think we've spent enough time on that, especially since we haven't seen any gameplay yet. So I've only got one other notable item, and this is the email I mentioned. So Jeff K. wrote in to us quite a while ago, and we will deal with this now. So he says, listening to your recent discussion of the features on Stern's Bond made me think about the features on some of the older games that Stern is still producing. I'm currently trying to decide between Jurassic Park Pro versus Premium and was curious to see what both of you would purchase if it was your money. It seems like the only extra gameplay feature on JP Premium is the Raptor Gate, as the ball-eating T-Rex and Helicopter Blades do not actually change how the game plays at all. Bonus points if you would both take the time to go through all of Stern's current production lineup and which version you would choose for the money. All right. So thank you, Jeff, for writing in. And I listed out by just going to their website. These are the ones that were still listed on the website, so I'm treating them as current even though they have happened to already have their final runs. I note that because I've heard like TMNT may be done now. I'm not clear yet. So we'll just run through these, and we'll say whether we would choose the pro or the premium. Bear in mind, we have not played all of these games. We've played most of them, but we might not have played both of the versions. So some of this could be very speculative. You know, caveat, caveat, caveat. And we'll get Jurassic Park in the list, so we won't start with it. But let's start with the one we haven't played either of, 007. I'm not going to choose because I have no idea. I will. I'm going to choose the pro because I'm here to make hard takes. That's what the people want. Oh, that's what it is. Plus, I'm very bothered by what was discovered by the super sleuthing of Ron Hallett Jr. over on Slam Tilt Podcast and them hooking up both pop bumpers to fire at the same time because they ran out of spots on the node board or whatever for the premium version. I'd forgotten about that. For that reason alone, I am taking the pro. Plus, I've heard feedback from other people like Travis Murray from Triple Drain Pinball Podcast, who we have a messenger discussion with. and his feedback has been that the pro plays better. And I trust his judgment. I mean, I'm... Because he's from Oklahoma.
    39:40
    That's how his trophy is spelled, Oklahoma. I'm not surprised. I'm still not going to make judgment. Of course not. I've never been able to pressure you by making a choice into committing afterwards. You've already drew your line in the sand. So what does your line in the sand say about Rush?
    39:58
    Because I've only played the pro... Wait, no. I think I have played the premium at TPF. See, but only once. I played the premium at TPF, and then all we've played here is the pro.
    40:13
    It's a hard judgment. I have more time on the pro, and I don't know. I don't know because I really can't remember the differences at this point. And I'm finger tapping the table Which is just screwing Dennis' numbers up My numbers are bad now They're like, what is this? We've been having so many audio issues today It is, it's been audio issues I'm just going to go pro I'm going to go pro because it's the one I put the most time on But I'll be flat honest I don't care for either of them I don't care for Rush I know you don't I would go pro as well. My understanding is the premium does do a better job of explaining what to do during the game, but you just need to watch Baby's First Tutorial, and you'll know how to play the game anyway. You shoot the flashy shots. Yes, and I think all the core functionality is there. If I were to buy one, I would only be looking at pros. So that would be my pick as well again. Godzilla. Oh, that's premium. The Pro is fun, but the Premium is so much better I mean, I kind of have to pick Premium Because that's what I bought But I have actually got a lot of time in on a Pro Yes, I have as well Pro plays harder So if you're looking for a harder game I would say definitely look at the Pro But I think just the game state changes The building mech alone provides Not to mention the bridge The dropping bridge I could take or leave Mechagodzilla though with a rotating bank actually it's a lot more fun than i realized and it's a way easier shot on the premium so it is i but the building in mechagodzilla is the reason yes i sure i think so because it affects the diversion onto the ramps and how those flow and it actually there's strategy in terms of changing the building game state to help like with guy again ramping for example there's a there's a reason you would want to lower it into ball lock position in order to make that an easier mode so So, yes, I agree. Godzilla Premium, I think, it's worth it for the mechs. Yeah. Mandalorian.
    42:23
    I'm going to go with Pro. I have more time on the Premium, but I agree. Here's the thing why I really come down to that. It is really cool to have the moving upper play field. However, when you're in multiball and that's happened, I mean, it's already just pure chaos. I would save the money on the pure chaos and just not go with that. That whole little upper play field, I can take or leave that on pretty much any game that has something like that. Yes, and that's generally been my rule of thumb as well. I don't love upper play fields as a rule. That one is clever. Right. It definitely is better thought out, I feel, than a lot of other ones that I've experienced. But I still wouldn't spring the money for it versus the core game. The pro is fine.
    43:09
    So Led Zeppelin. have i played a pro i have i'm just gonna say i've only played a pro that's not true i have played a pro at 403 and then nubs for a while had a premium i believe but but i never activated the magic lifty right gate so i basically had a pro experience i know i know like the one i know i I played the one at 403 once or twice, but it was always in warm-up. I don't think I ever actually got it in tournament play. Oh, I had it a few times.
    43:53
    Yeah, I'll just go with pro. I think it's the safe bet. I will. I just can't remember the differences between them at this point because I've played it so little. I'm going to kind of quasi-pull a rush and say, honestly, I don't think you should buy either of them. I don't think it's a very I don't think it's a fun layout the rules have some interest in them I've heard some really better players than me explain the rules of Led Zeppelin but honestly when we had it most of even our top players at 403 didn't speak favor like they just didn't like shooting it there's nothing to do on the pro so if you're going to pick between the two I would say get the premium whether or not you want to activate the Magic Mystery spinny liftgate thing or not. Saying that aside, I was just so irked by that upper flipper shot that's a dead-end shot on the Pro instead of what is on the Premium, which is a ramp shot that then feeds. I hate dead-end shots like that.
    44:53
    It's so Spartan. If you have to have a Led Zeppelin, I would say get the Premium. I can see that. Avengers Infinity Quest.
    45:03
    Oh, man. I don't know if I've played the premium on this. I don't know if I've played it. That's why I actually called up pictures of the premium. Because it's got the subway ball lock thing for like the Doctor Strange. Yeah. I've not played a premium. I've only played the pro. And I enjoy it. I enjoy it quite a lot. So I'll just say pro because that's the one I enjoy. Yeah, because I'm looking at the pictures of the premium. I've not played a premium Infinity Quest.
    45:31
    I've only played the pro. But I enjoy it. I really enjoy the Infinity Quest. It's one of those games that started out. I didn't like it the first couple times I played it. And then as it got a little polish on it, I've come to enjoy it more. Like several games, honestly. Yeah.
    45:48
    I'm in a similar boat. Avengers really didn't resonate with me originally. As I put more and more time on it, I've enjoyed shooting it a lot more. And I would go pro as well on it. but noting that just because I've had fun on the pro, I don't know if the premium is better. I haven't played the premium.
    46:07
    Toidals, TMNT. I've only played the one. The pro. The pro is the only one I've played. So it's hard to make a judgment because I've not played the other version.
    46:23
    Not even once that I can think of. So I will go with the default judgment of just going with the pro. because it tends to be the better choice most of the time.
    46:37
    But I'm not – I have no real – I've never enjoyed it. I know people really – there are people who really love it. It plays right into that nostalgia. I am the key nostalgia target for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and I just don't care. It doesn't do anything for me.
    46:58
    I am actually – I'm very similar. I don't have the same feeling about it that I do about Led Zeppelin, but this is not a game I would consider.
    47:09
    It's extremely brutal, which I find fascinating for a theme that is also still targeted for kids because I guess the titles are still going on. I've only played the Pro. I would choose the Pro over the Premium because I have known others who have owned the Premium model, and there have been a lot of complaints about the glider, diverter, and malfunction issues. And I don't know if those are all resolved or not, but I would play it safe and go with the simpler mechanical version if you don't want to do maintenance on the pen. Yeah, that makes sense. So that's it for – It was always weird to me that that was like a prime Tony Target nostalgia game, and it didn't touch. And then Godzilla, to me, is just, it's everything. It's the whole package. It's the license. It's the game. It's everything. I don't know. It's how it works out sometimes. It's how sometimes life is. Life finds a way. Speaking of life finding a way, so Jurassic Park. Okay. It finally found its way into the list. You know, I don't know if I play the premium. I have. I played a lot of it. When it initially released in 2019, I went to Chicago for work, and they had it. And I dumped tons of money into playing it shortly after it released when I was in Chicago. It was one of the things I spent the most time on.
    48:34
    And honestly, I think I would, but I don't think it matters that much. They're both a lot of fun, and I don't think it really matters too much, but I think I would take the premium just because of the T-Rex is always going to be interesting.
    49:03
    I think the one I've played the most most, though, has been the Pro, and I enjoy it too. It's just a good game. Yeah, I again, I haven't played the premium, at least unless I played it one time at a show.
    49:17
    I I was actually before Godzilla came out, I was considering buying a Jurassic Park and it was going to be a pro. So that would be my answer. I would caution on it. I've heard very good things about how the Raptor pit is on the premium. So for that reason, you might want to consider it. I personally felt that I would be very annoyed with the T-Rex flinging the ball and just adding that additional randomness on the premium. So I thought I'd also get tired of having to wait for that. So I'm sure you could disable it, though. It's like I was more curious about what I've heard about the Raptor Pit versus anything else. But I think the Pro, which I have a lot of time on, is a very, very, very good game. So if I were buying, that would be what I would be looking at. Deadpool I've played both of these I have played both Deadpools I like them both I don't know that there's really a wrong answer with a Deadpool I think I would go premium yeah I'd go premium just for the extras and the I'm trying to remember which one had the better art package. We've pulled more pictures up.
    50:39
    Didn't the premium have the blue? The premium was the blue. Yeah, the premium was the blue. So I actually like the pro art package better because I like the red better. But I don't think you can go wrong with them either way. But I think probably, honestly, with the art package and everything else, The question is just What's the other big difference? I don't even remember the other big difference I think one of the The orbit shot I think is different On the premium The premium also has drop targets instead of those stand-ups On the side Yeah, I mean I think you'd be perfectly Fine with the pro, there's no reason to go I don't think there's a reason to go Premium Unless you just want the extra bits And like the blue I could be forgetting something yeah I yeah this one's interesting for me I would say I do feel the premium is the better game but if I were buying Deadpool I would just buy the pro it just depends if you value those items and I think the premium it looks a lot better and I do think you get some gameplay aspects that are a bit stronger on it but given the price differential at this stage I would still go pro, but either way, I think you'd be happy is why.
    52:02
    Iron Maiden. I cannot remember if I've played the premium. We had the pro for a long time at 403. I don't think I've played a premium. I'm looking at the art package. I don't think I've played a premium, which makes it hard to judge.
    52:20
    I mean, I know everybody loves Iron Maiden. I seem to recall having a lot of problems with the one we had on a lot of ball hangups. We had a lot of balls that would get hung up in the back behind that target that you would ramp up into Right. I think the pro is fine I think it's more than enough for what you'd want out of said game As good as the people like it, as good as everything is, it's not a game that I would put in my lineup. Right. Just because I don't think it's amazing enough to make up for what I consider to be a lackluster theme I could see that, I would say it's definitely Elwynn's most polarizing theme, it was his first game of course with Stern I agree with you, I would probably again, bearing in mind that I don't if I've played the premium I have no memory of it I feel the pro was very jam packed, I mean it's a four flipper game it's got all the key shots are still there so I think that it's definitely safe to go with the pro if you love it of all of Elwynn's four games which are all in production still so we've now talked about all of them this is the one I would least be interested in and not even because of the theme I just there is probably a point where I would have put this above Avengers but I'm at the stage now where I'm like you know what I'm more interested in what's going on in the rules with Avengers than I am with Iron Maiden so anyway but they're all I mean, it's like all his games. They're all good. So, yeah, I think pro is fine on this. Guardians of the Galaxy. Easy. Pro. Yeah.
    53:58
    The Groot. Oh, man. The Groot's just such garbage. The Groot arms alone. Yeah. It doesn't even make me want to play the premium. No, I hate them. You basically, in my view, you give up nothing going pro on you. I think you gain going pro. This is – to me, this is like the difference choosing between pro and premium of Game of Thrones where pro is the obvious choice. Yeah, yeah.
    54:26
    I'd say this is even stronger to me simply because I could envision someone actually preferring to have the upper play field on Game of Thrones. I can't envision a reason why you would prefer the setup on the premium. To me, this was the last game where the pro was such a clear winner that they shouldn't have even made a premium. But anyway. And the last one that I had on the list is Star Wars.
    54:52
    Star Wars? Have I played a premium Star Wars? I have not. I don't think I've played a premium Star Wars. I have not. We have had several on location, and they've always been pros. They've always been pros. It's all right. Here's the thing. Star Wars does nothing for me. Yeah I would toss this in with Zeppelin and Turtles that I would not be in the market for this game period Like Led Zeppelin again this is another Steve Ritchie layout it doesn feel like there a lot going on here So I guess if you a hardcore Star Wars fan I would say even though I haven played it I go premium so you can have the Hyperloop Right. Which at least is visually interesting. But I wouldn't buy this game. No. I mean, that's the thing is I prefer other Star Wars games. Let's go with it that way. Yeah, I would probably rather get the Data East one and throw Chad H. Code To smooth out some of the Rougher aspects of like Shooting the ramp over and over I think Data East Is probably the best I mean, yeah, the Sega one is I've played it a few times And it's got the weird Sarlacc gobble hole It's not a real gobble hole, sorry Sorry Nick, it's not a real gobble hole It's got the big huge hole, kind of like the Super Mario Gottlieb did, and I'm like, why is there this Huge super big hole, I guess it's because it's a sarlacc but it's just uh yeah i the data east one remains my favorite there's a lot of rules depth to star wars uh that you can really dive into but the that layout and plunging into the targets and then left draining just honestly it pisses me off so fierce that i don't think this game should that game should not have have left uh the production line i i the i do not like it The only thing that I find halfway interesting to me on Star Wars is a feature that I know we've seen on other games. I like the fast little U-turn shot. That's it.
    56:59
    Where it's around real quick. I like that shot. Yeah. Where the TIE fighter is. Right, right. Yeah, I know that. And isn't that where they have the little ball that can hold the ball for mode select and stuff? Is that where that is? The little prongs pop up? Or is that a shot to the side? I think that's a shot to the side. I don't remember. I don't know. The tie fighter on a spring. Yeah. The pop bumpers you're never in. There's nothing. I like that shot just because I like those little shots where when you hit it just right, the ball just shoots through and it comes right back. It's a quick reaction. It is fast. I like that. Richie's games often are. But, yeah, no, I just – I never – I could never get into it as a game. It's one of those things I played, but it never grabbed me. I was never like, oh, man, Star Wars. I've got to go play Star Wars.
    57:51
    Anyway, those are what I had listed as the current production. So, Jeff, I hope you like hearing our limited thoughts.
    58:00
    That's it. I don't have any rumors. I'm out of rumors, guys. I've heard. There's no rumor corner. I've got a rumor. Do you? I do. All right. Let me drop in the music.
    58:13
    Rumor corner. Dennis Creasel's got the news before Napa Caves.
    58:27
    Get that right, Tony. Yeah. Okay, Tony. What's the rumor? The rumor I've heard is that there's a shortage of sandpaper from sanding down the topper to fit on top. Oh, my God.
    58:43
    Note that rumor corner rumors may not be true. In fact, it's probably safe to assume that they aren't true. Especially that one. All right. So that's your rumor corner. Guys, if you have other rumors, rumors that don't involve sandpaper, you can email eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com and give us some rumors. We can't be coming here and just fabricating rumors for you because who knows what the quality would be if that were to happen. I don't know. It might be like somebody sandpapering down toppers to make them fit on top of a machine. Maybe. It might be. So video games. Let's go into video games. I did want to note we had another email from Chris Chandler who wrote in. He wanted to endorse for our listeners the Entropy Center, the Entropy Center for any gamers that are fans of Portal. He sort of described it as a game you can't really talk about Unless you've already played it So anyway, if you're interested in Portal You can check out a trailer of the Entropy Center And see if you like it I'll have to take a look at it I haven't played it so I can't talk about it Alright Tony, so what's the news What's the news in the video games Video games, so interesting Three people have been arrested from Square Enix Why For an investigation Into insider trading including the arrested include Yuji Naka better known as the father of Sonic he's been arrested for insider trading him another employee by the name of Taisuki Suzuki and a friend of Suzuki's have all been arrested for insider trading all three of them in like December of 19 going into early 20, uh, bought large share amounts of shares in the development company. Aiming, uh, just before the announcement that Amy was working with square on the new dragon quest mobile title. And by buying shares, I don't mean like they bought a couple of shares, right? Uh, Suzuki and his friend each acquired more than 20 million yen worth of shares. Uh, I think the total was 46 million yen worth of shares. or 48 million yen worth of shares between the two of them. So that's between 144,000 and $200,000 worth of shares. And Yuji Naka acquired 2.8 million yen worth of shares, which is another 20 grand worth of shares. Okay, so these are sizable investments. These are sizable investments that happened in the three months leading up to their announcement when their stock exploded. And all three of them were working at Square. and had some at least cursory involvement or would have had cursory knowledge of the project prior to announcement.
    61:36
    Things are not looking so good, as Sonic's rival Mario might say. Yeah. And this comes on top of Naka had only been with Square for a short time, just while they were working on Ball and Wonder World, before that game was released in its terrible state. and there's been a lot of animosity back and forth between him and Square about it to the point where he said he told Square the game wasn't ready to be released and it needed more work and they said we're releasing it anyway. And then he publicly stated that Square doesn't care about gamers and Square doesn't care about games. They're just trying to print money and they'll do whatever they want to print money. So there was a little issues there. But now he's in jail for insider trading. So I guess square in the end gets their revenge. So, yeah, but no, I'm just, it's just one of those things. It's like, how do you not think that you're going to get found when you're making such major purchases? Like, like I can understand. It's like, oh, I just happened to buy, you know, a couple thousand dollars worth of stock in this company. Not, oh, I just happened to buy $20,000 or a quarter of a million dollars worth of stock in this company just before we made the announcement. Oh, and I knew about it. Oh, that's weird. I mean, I don't know. My only guess would be that maybe they didn't realize that insider trading was a thing that wasn't legal. I mean, it would explain it. It would explain the huge purchases and not like think of whatever. Right.
    63:20
    And Martha stewarded it. Yeah, it's like, well, I didn't know that. I was just like, oh, I thought that's how, you know, when you get a scoop. Just do it. That's right, Baskin-Robbins style. Yeah. Two scoops.
    63:32
    I mean, it'd be one thing to set it up so that, like, it's like, oh, the announcement's at 9 a.m. And I've got a buy scheduled for 9-0-1-8.
    63:41
    But, yeah, interesting. Blizzard has backed off slightly on their SMS verification rules. They are now allowing prepaid phones.
    63:51
    So in some ways, that whole window of no cheaters can be closing. It could be. But at the same time, considering the large fraction of the world's population who utilize prepaid phones. I knew that would be the pushback is there actually are a lot of people that use prepaid. It's just, I mean, I don't know.
    64:14
    Maybe it won't be an issue. Maybe there aren't a lot of Smurfs that want to buy a bunch of prepaid. I mean, it's still a barrier to have to have a different phone number every time. Right. If they're blocking things like Google Phone and stuff, it's just free. Right. That was one of those interesting – after the first conversation we had about their SMS several episodes ago, I just out of curiosity just asked around people at work, and at least half of the people I work with run prepaid phones just because they're cheap and easy and they don't use them that much and they don't care. So I was surprised I didn't think the number would be as high as it actually was So We'll see how that ends up working out for them The big game release The one that I had to run my daughters out Immediately after school Pick them up from school and go straight to the store To pick up their copies of Pokemon Scarlet and Violet A.K.A. Pokemon Clay Mountain Yeah Because all the mountains look like clay My eldest is unhappy. She is a Pokemon fanatic, as you know, and as our listeners have heard. She spoke on this show about Pokemon. And she has already asked. She wants to either come on again or record a piece talking about this one after she gets some more time in on it. But right now, she's not playing it very much because the bugs and the issues are so bad. There's times where it's almost unplayable, she has said. there are points where the frame rates drop to almost nothing.
    65:51
    I looked online and seen people running frame rates up showing under 20 FPS at times while it's trying to load textures in the background.
    66:03
    The draw distance, obviously there's a problem somewhere because they've made the draw distance so short that you'll be walking and there'll be nothing there. And then, oh, trainer or Pokemon will just appear like right next to you because the draw distance is so short. And I've seen some insane texture problems like as bad, if not worse than some of the stuff that we saw in cyberpunk. There was one really humorous one I saw going around where somebody started playing and the opposing trainers had like separated from their body and just flew straight at the screen and straight through the screen. like straight at you, straight through the screen, just their head.
    66:46
    Jeez. Wow. And there's ones where their heads will just start rotating on their body like vertically, and it's got all sorts of issues. She says it's kind of funnish, but there are a lot of ongoing issues, enough that she has not just been hard-coring that game like she normally does. She's been playing it for a while and then just like, nope, I've got to take a break. This is just too. And the big thing is, is the previous Pokemon game, the Legends Arceus, had a bunch of complaints about the environmental assets and the quality of stuff. And it is just so much better than Scarlet and Violet. The quality on Arceus is so much higher than Scarlet and Violet.
    67:33
    It is rough. And for it to be having load time issues and texture issues on a system as advanced as the Switch, I don't know. Is it poor design? Is it sloppy? What little I've seen in the gaming Reddits are people thinking that it just was so rushed that it's not efficient. Yeah. Obviously, it's not efficient if it's straining the system resource. I don't know. They should probably rename it to Pokemon Black and Blue as much as it's getting beat up. It is. It is taking more fire than any Pokemon game I've ever seen take fire online.
    68:15
    But there's a lot of – I heard someone say that their speculation was Pokemon games always drop in November, so that was the date. And, like, for whatever reason, they chose not to move it. I mean, I could see them wanting to get it out before Christmas for the sales, but they still could have bought, like, another month. But nope, Pokemon comes out in November. It's like, you know, I don't know if that should be a thing at the expense of whatever this is. That's the exact same thing I've seen, that Pokemon comes out in November, and that's when it drops.
    68:45
    I'm sure they'll polish some of it up, but the question is, is how much will they polish and how much will they just walk away?
    68:52
    And I don't know. Game Freak has never really that I've seen done a whole lot of major work on the back end but they've never had to do a whole lot of major work on the back end typically Pokemon games are very formulaic and released very clean in all honesty but not this one apparently not unfortunate so but Eldest will go in there and have a conversation about it at some point I'll either bring her for one of these or we'll record separately, whichever she's most comfortable with. Yeah. Have her trash it. Just have her. I hate Pokemon. Yeah, she'll never say that. Okay, non.
    69:36
    She'll never say that. It might not be her favorite Pokemon, but she'll still love Pokemon. Pokemon, Scarlet and Violet, stole my childhood. Papa, why did you do this to me?
    69:48
    You made me do it. Why did you make me do it? I will say, in one other bit of hilarity, the popular format for making Pokemon games harder is to run a Nuzlocke challenge, which we've talked about in the past, which is like a permadeath-type challenge. but apparently one of the preeminent Pokemon streamers who's known for his Nuzlocke's and everything has already said one of the starters in Scarlet and Violet just ban him, just ban that character from your Nuzlocke, just refuse to use him because he makes it so easy mode because that one character has type advantage against like the, like five of the hardest things in the game. And it just dominates.
    70:44
    He did, he did a 20 hour Nuzlocke and use pretty much just that character had no issues at all. So he didn't lose a single character cause he was just so much, so bad of a matchup or so overpowered compared to how everything was set up. So we'll finish video games here with a quick look for some good news. We've had a rest for insider trading. We've had big game releases with problems. And now we've got a big game release that went really big. And I haven't really heard anything terrible about God of War Ragnarok. Yeah, I haven't seen negative stuff on it. I haven't seen any real negative stuff on it. But it sold 5.1 million copies in the first week. Making me happy. Yeah, it is the fastest-selling PlayStation game to date.
    71:35
    So congratulations. I mean, to be fair, games are always going to end up like this. There's always more and more machines out there, and especially since it's available on the 4, on what, PlayStation 4 and PlayStation 5 or 3 and whatever they are. It is 4 and 5. 4 and 5, yeah. 4 and 5.
    71:57
    That, of course, there's going to be a lot of availability, and it's going to sell more. But, yeah, no, that's still 5.1 million a week. That is a lot of games sold.
    72:07
    That is a popular series. Mm-hmm. So. Yay. That's what I got for video games. There's nothing. I mean, there's other stuff. There's always other stuff. But this was the more interesting. This is the lull. Just. The lull before the Christmas storm. Before the Game Awards. Yep. The Game Awards where we get all the Game Awards and all the announcements. And before we. All the trailers. before we start seeing the real big hits coming down on the whole Activision Microsoft merger, I'm expecting that to start ramping up here before too long. Since we're looking at, we're coming up on what the six month mark to when it's supposed to go active. Yep. Cause it's a summer, summer of summer of next year. So I think the investigations will start ramping up even harder than they already have been. So, uh, But that's all we have for today. All right. Well, if people want to reach out to us, especially if you have rumor corners for us, email eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com, or you can go to facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast. You can join our Patreon at patreon.com slash eclectic underscore gamers. We're available on Twitch, Twitter, and Instagram as eclectic underscore gamers, which I remembered this time, and I didn't say it last time. No one cares. We haven't streamed anything recently. Or we might get to drop the tweets here soon. Yeah. The way Elon doesn't get done. That's been so insane I actually considered adding that to the video game section And then I decided I didn't want to deal with it That might be A really lull episode We might tackle that Because that's been crazy That's almost been a video game of its own right Just watching it So anyway, until two weeks from now My name is Dennis I'm Tony Goodbye everybody