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Dirty Pool Podcast - Ep28 - Jason Zahler - The World's Best Pinball Player

Dirtypool Pinball·video·1h 12m·analyzed·Mar 17, 2026
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TL;DR

Top-ranked pinball player Jason Zahler shares competitive insights and career trajectory.

Summary

Jason Zahler, the #1-ranked pinball player worldwide and North American Champion, discusses his 20-year journey in competitive pinball starting at age 2.5, his recent victory at Indisc 2, training methodology emphasizing raw flipper skills and rules knowledge, favorite machines across eras, tournament mentality and the importance of enjoying the game, and practical advice for competitive players adjusting to different machines.

Key Claims

  • Jason Zahler is the current #1 ranked pinball player in the world

    high confidence · Host introduction: 'the number one ranked pinball player currently and for a while now'

  • Zahler has been playing pinball since age 2.5 and is now 21 years old, competing competitively since age 8

    high confidence · Zahler states: 'I've been playing since I was around two and a half, I think... I'm now 21 years old, so almost 20 years. And I've been competing, I think, since I was around 8 years old.'

  • Zahler has attended over 250 tournaments

    high confidence · Zahler: 'I've been to over 250 tournaments, so it's been unbelievable.'

  • Danieli, an Italian player over 40 years old, won Indisc 2 championship, beating younger top players

    high confidence · Zahler: 'the winner was Danieli who came go Italy... He's he's over 40 years old and he just beat everyone.'

  • Keith Elwin is the undisputed GOAT (greatest of all time) pinball player, over 50 years old, recently won Pinmasters

    high confidence · Zahler: 'Keith Owen is, you know, the undisputed goat... He's over 50 now, and he just beat me. He knocked me out in the semi-finals... he just won pin masters.'

  • Raw flipper skills are the foundation of pinball excellence, more fundamental than rules knowledge

    high confidence · Zahler: 'I would say raw skills has to be number one... flipper skills at the top... plunging and skill shots... all those skills that those are first and foremost'

  • Zahler is a double major in nutrition and exercise science at Rowan University

    high confidence · Host: 'you're a double major in both uh nutrition and and exercise science. Is that correct?' Zahler: 'Yep.'

  • Arvid injured his hand at Indisc on Excalibur due to the spiky plunger during a rage plunge

    high confidence · Zahler: 'Arvid posted something about his hand... his palm all bandaged up... he basically just said, "Yeah, don't don't rage plunge on Excalibur, guys." Because apparently Excalibur the plunger has the spiky plunger on it.'

Notable Quotes

  • “My dad is who he got me into the game of pinball. If not for him, none of this would have happened.”

    Jason Zahler @ ~5:00 — Emphasizes family support as critical to his success, establishing context for his long competitive journey

  • “Raw flipper skills has to be number one... then learning the rules to the games... and then, you know, the competitive aspect... experience would be in that list too.”

    Jason Zahler @ ~15:30 — Articulates the hierarchical skill foundation for competitive pinball excellence

  • “The mental game is so important... it's one of the most important things when competing... how you respond to it... will help you so much going into the next ball.”

    Jason Zahler @ ~42:00 — Identifies psychological resilience as a key competitive skill, addressing tournament pressure management

  • “If you're not having fun, what's the point? I've been really trying to make sure I have a good time first and foremost.”

    Jason Zahler @ ~45:00 — Core philosophy shift: enjoyment as foundation for competitive success, reflecting maturation in approach

  • “Creature from the Black Lagoon might just be the best multiball in all of pinball because it's super high pressure.”

    Jason Zahler @ ~32:00 — Expert evaluation of game design; identifies multiball pressure mechanics as design excellence

  • “The Shadow is one of my favorite games of all time because there's so many different ways to play it and it's just such a great package.”

    Jason Zahler @ ~28:00 — Demonstrates appreciation for game depth and flexibility in play styles, key design principle

  • “I used to be one of the more animated players when I was younger... it's totally the opposite now. I've learned for the better, I would say.”

    Jason Zahler @ ~42:30 — Reflects personal evolution from emotionally expressive to controlled, focused competitor

Entities

Jason ZahlerpersonKeith ElwinpersonDanielipersonArvidpersonDirtypool PinballpersonRowan UniversityorganizationDelaware Pinball CollectiveorganizationJersey Pinball AssociationorganizationIndisc 2eventPinmasters

Signals

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Jason Zahler confirmed as #1 ranked pinball player globally and NACS champion; demonstrates sustained competitive dominance

    high · Host introduction and Zahler's tournament results at Indisc 2 and recent NACS victory

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Top-tier competitive pinball encompasses players across age ranges (Zahler 21, Danieli 40+, Keith Elwin 50+), contradicting potential age-bias narratives

    high · Danieli (40+) won Indisc 2; Keith Elwin (50+) won Pinmasters and beat Zahler in semi-finals; Zahler acknowledges 'you don't have to be young' to win

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Keith Elwin's game design emphasizes shot flow, player choice, multiple viable paths to scoring, and shots accessible from both flippers with different techniques

    high · Zahler praises Elwin's games for 'choice in how you want to progress,' 'multiple shots from both flippers,' and 'shots feel great' with 'good flow'; Creature and Shadow multiball mechanics showcase layered complexity

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Two-ball multiballs gaining appreciation in modern design for enabling more methodical, controlled play vs. chaos-driven all-shots-lit multiballs

    medium · Zahler discusses Creature's two-ball multiball as potentially 'best multiball in all of pinball'; notes two-ball allows 'more control' and 'more methodical' play; mentions two-ball returning in Kong

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Modern game rules increasingly reward players who understand multiplier stacking and progression mechanics; knowledge gaps create significant competitive disadvantage

Transcript

youtube_auto_sub · $0.000

0:07
Hello. What's going on everybody? It is
0:07
Hello. What's going on everybody? It is the next episode of the Dirty Pool podcast and boy do I have a treat for you today. Instead of dealing with my dumbass playing terrible pinball, we get to talk to the number one ranked pinball player currently and for a while now. Jason Zer. Am I pronouncing it right? >> Yep. That was perfect.
0:24
Yep. That was perfect.
0:24
Yep. That was perfect. >> Hell yeah. We did it. We did it. Team,
0:26
Hell yeah. We did it. We did it. Team,
0:26
Hell yeah. We did it. We did it. Team, uh Jason, thank you for hopping on, man. I really appreciate I know that you're currently out of school break right now, so this like perfectly timed, right? >> Yes. On spring break for this week right
event
NACSevent
Grand Prixgame
The Shadowgame
Creature from the Black Lagoongame
Jurassic Parkgame
Jawsgame
Godzillagame
Iron Maidengame
Excaliburgame
Star Trek: The Next Generationgame
Beatlesgame
Sea Witchgame
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtlesgame
Konggame

high · Zahler's Bond example: 7x playfield for 1.5 minutes enables 700M+ from 4 button presses; unknown players cannot achieve equivalent efficiency; establishes that rules knowledge is second-tier skill after flipper mechanics

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Top player development includes shift from emotional expressiveness to controlled mentality; enjoyment-first approach correlates with improved performance

    high · Zahler: 'I used to be one of the more animated players... totally the opposite now'; 'if you're not having fun, what's the point?'; recognizes mental resilience as 'one of the most important things when competing'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Delaware Pinball Collective operates 60+ machine venue with monthly tournaments and Twitch streaming, providing accessible competitive practice space for players near Rowan University area

    high · Zahler mentions venue 'within an hour from my campus... maybe over like 60 or something... monthly tournaments... they stream on Twitch... Fridays or Sundays'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Tournament players must rapidly adapt to machine-to-machine variation in flipper timing, tilt sensitivity, plunger feel, and dead bounce characteristics; practice sessions critical for calibration

    high · Zahler describes adjustment process: find plunge, learn shot timings, test feeds/tilt, practice post passes; warns of 'no give' Gottlieb flippers vs. Valley/Williams; fears dead bounce failures on unfamiliar machines

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Jason Zahler's father was instrumental in introducing pinball and supporting 250+ tournament travels, demonstrating parental support as foundational to elite youth competitive development

    high · Zahler: 'My dad is who he got me into the game... If not for him, none of this would have happened... father has been... most important... traveling to almost every tournament ever'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Significant spread in modern game accessibility; some titles like Jurassic Park achieve mass appeal without oversimplification, while others polarize (e.g., grindiness complaints on Jurassic Park)

    medium · Zahler notes Jurassic Park 'rules are not too complex, but they're really cohesive'; some find it 'too grindy' due to progressive difficulty; contrasts with all-shots-lit chaos designs

  • ?

    product_concern: Pinball machines pose physical injury risks; Excalibur's spiky plunger caused hand injury; Star Trek TNG's trigger handle caused repeated inner thigh bruising; rage plunging increases injury risk

    high · Arvid injured palm on Excalibur spiky plunger at Indisc; Zahler has 'multiple inner thigh bruises' from TNG; identifies 'firearm handles' and 'dick smashers' as cabinet hazards

    • 0:36
    Yes. On spring break for this week right
    0:36
    Yes. On spring break for this week right now. It's perfect timing. >> Nailed it. Nailed it. Um, so obviously
    0:40
    Nailed it. Nailed it. Um, so obviously
    0:40
    Nailed it. Nailed it. Um, so obviously congratulations for the NACS. You're the North American champ for North America, the the redundancy redundancy department. Um, amazing, absolutely amazing performance. We were just talking about Indisk 2 about how uh that was a pretty wild tournament. Um, I have so many questions for you. I have so many people that have such an interest in kind of your journey. I I kind of don't even know where to start. So, we're just going to dive right in. Okay. [laughter] I remember watching you playing on some of the Papa streams you talked about uh doing the Papa Juniors almost 10 years ago. So, you've been playing pinball for how long now? >> I've been playing pinball. And by the
    1:16
    I've been playing pinball. And by the
    1:16
    I've been playing pinball. And by the way, thanks uh so much for having me on this podcast. I'm very excited. Um yeah, I've been playing since I was around two and a half, I think. and yeah, just playing the game of pinball for for my entire life pretty much. I'm now 21 years old, so almost 20 years. And I've been competing, I think, since I was around 8 years old. So, yeah, it's been a very, very long journey and still much more to go. >> So, did you know that you were like a
    1:45
    So, did you know that you were like a
    1:45
    So, did you know that you were like a savant for pinball, for lack of a better word, or did you just love the game and just dedicate yourself to becoming better? Yeah, I mean definitely I just love playing pinball. I I wouldn't be competing and still still be in the sport if I didn't lie. But that's the number one thing for me. >> Sure. But like at some point it had to
    2:03
    Sure. But like at some point it had to
    2:03
    Sure. But like at some point it had to click that you were extremely skilled uh in a way that a lot of other people aren't and have to work for. Did you feel like >> I had to work for it. That that's the
    2:12
    I had to work for it. That that's the
    2:12
    I had to work for it. That that's the thing. Everyone really that you know is the top of any sport has to work a long time for however amount of time. But I would say, yeah, in my teenage years and leading towards now, that's really been the time frame that I really saw myself stepping up and really quickly improving my skills and and various things. >> So,
    2:34
    So,
    2:34
    So, >> yeah, it took a really long time to get
    2:35
    yeah, it took a really long time to get
    2:35
    yeah, it took a really long time to get to this point. I've been to over 250 tournaments, so it's been unbelievable. >> Your parents must support you like so
    2:45
    Your parents must support you like so
    2:45
    Your parents must support you like so much for this. I mean, obviously, just in terms of the journey, I'm talking about your younger years, not so much now, but the amount of time that it takes to travel and be dedicated to spending time at tournaments. I mean, as most people know, tournaments aren't short, and the time and place that they take place is all over the the world necessar.
    3:10
    Yeah, I mean, my dad is who he got me
    3:10
    Yeah, I mean, my dad is who he got me into the game of pinball. He if not for him, none of this would have happened. I'll just I'll say that. So, my dad has been super super the most important in my opinion to to helping me get where I am. And yeah, he I've been traveling to almost every tournament ever pretty much with him. And we've been going, you know, past several years across the world to a lot of the the top events. But it it really started more locally when I was younger especially. We would go to some, you know, a New Jersey pinball league like an hour from our house called the Jersey Pinball Association and that was great early experience for me and you know go to a lot of local tournaments within a few hours from me that was like the roots for me. So >> when you first started playing
    3:59
    when you first started playing
    3:59
    when you first started playing tournaments did I mean cuz obviously playing pinball just for fun and playing it competitively are totally two different things. Did you find yourself immediately drawn to an interest in playing competitively or are you a competitive person? >> I'm definitely a competitive person, but
    4:14
    I'm definitely a competitive person, but
    4:14
    I'm definitely a competitive person, but um yeah, like I said, it was probably maybe five or six years where I you know, but from the time I started playing pinball for fun and then by the time I started traveling with my dad to tournaments with to compete. So, I I feel like I've always had that competitive drive, though, and I I think for that reason, naturally, I I wanted to compete. I had that hunger to to travel and and compete more. >> So, I want to talk a little bit about
    4:42
    So, I want to talk a little bit about
    4:42
    So, I want to talk a little bit about younger players that are interested in getting into playing pinball competitively. Um, but I also want to talk about kind of the dedication that it requires, right? Because to play at your level, I imagine that the you you you must practice and be diligent in terms of like how to improve your skill set. Is there a certain methodology that you like to apply in terms of how to improve your play? I feel like nowadays, especially because of school and I I haven't had as much time to polish up on my skills and and the big thing nowadays is learning the the rules to all these newer games because the the rules sets are so complex and if you want to beat all these top young players, you have to know, you know, the thing to do on these games. So that's that's something I I feel like I should do more often. But yeah, definitely years ago when I had more time at home and we have a decent collection in our basement, which I am in right now, um yeah, I all I would do is just play and just play a lot basically and experiment when you're practicing on your own, try out new things because eventually you'll naturally just polish up your skills. And then, you know, if you want to compete and and get better and higher in the ranks, that just requires getting tons of experience and putting yourself in those high pressure situations a lot. So, different to it. >> Chat's joking about how you're an old
    6:06
    Chat's joking about how you're an old
    6:06
    Chat's joking about how you're an old man because you're talking about beating younger players. I have to ask, you know, Belto, uh, you know, had a victory, I think it was at Yagpin, I want to say. Uh, but do you do you feel that being young gives you an advantage in pinball? I would definitely say at this point there is a tangible advantage, but that's not to say that you have to be young to beat the young players basically or to win these top events as we just saw within the last few weeks. Uh, three out of the four major championship finalists at Indisk were the youngsters >> and the winner was Danieli who came
    6:46
    and the winner was Danieli who came
    6:46
    and the winner was Danieli who came >> go Italy, right? [laughter]
    6:47
    go Italy, right? [laughter]
    6:47
    go Italy, right? [laughter] >> Yeah. He's he's over 40 years old and he
    6:49
    Yeah. He's he's over 40 years old and he
    6:50
    Yeah. He's he's over 40 years old and he just beat everyone. decimated everything that >> you're like half dead at that point.
    6:54
    you're like half dead at that point.
    6:54
    you're like half dead at that point. Anybody over 40, but man, that must suck. >> But I mean, and the other thing, you
    7:00
    But I mean, and the other thing, you
    7:00
    But I mean, and the other thing, you know, obviously Keith Owen is, you know, the undisputed goat. >> Um, for sure.
    7:04
    Um, for sure.
    7:04
    Um, for sure. >> He's over 50 now, and he just beat me.
    7:07
    He's over 50 now, and he just beat me.
    7:07
    He's over 50 now, and he just beat me. He knocked me out in the semi-finals. He beat Zmac, all these other top players right now. And he, yeah, he just won pin masters. So, I I'd say that's good proof that you don't have to be young. I I would say there's at, you know, to some degree some advantage, whether it be like reflexes and just memorizing tons of rules and all these things. >> Sure.
    7:28
    Sure.
    7:28
    Sure. >> But you can still do it at any age. I I
    7:30
    But you can still do it at any age. I I
    7:30
    But you can still do it at any age. I I I really believe that. >> Same because I'm old and I have no other
    7:34
    Same because I'm old and I have no other
    7:34
    Same because I'm old and I have no other way to think about that. [laughter] Divisible, thank you for the huge gift subs. I really appreciate that. So, you had mentioned uh rule set knowledge is certainly one of the things and you mentioned kind of reaction speeds as one of the other. What would you say are kind of like the core foundation if you had to make a pyramid out of this? No food pun intended here. If if you had to make a food pyramid of pinball ability in terms of pinball knowledge in terms to be a excellent player, how would you construct that? >> So I would say raw skills has to be
    8:02
    So I would say raw skills has to be
    8:02
    So I would say raw skills has to be number one. Raw flipper skills at the top. You know, uh learning how to post pass, how to not flip and dead bounce, accuracy, obviously nudging, you can't forget about nudging. That's a good skill. all those skills that those are first and foremost and obviously you know plunging and you know for skill shots and and measuring the plunge and all that. So you have to be good at the flipper skills cuz that's that's what you're you know directly manipulating when you play the game >> for sure. And then the other thing is,
    8:33
    for sure. And then the other thing is,
    8:34
    for sure. And then the other thing is, you know, learning the rules to the games because if you don't know what you're doing, you could be very skilled and you could be playing for a while, but if you're playing, you know, people who know what they're doing, they can just do it much more efficiently. So rules knowledge is huge as well. And then, you know, the competitive aspect, if if that's what you want to do, if you want to, you know, play competitive pinball, then experience would be in that list, too. Do you can you think of a game off the top of your head that would be a good example of where you can just keep flipping and hitting tons of stuff and getting absolutely no points unless you go for specific goals? >> Yeah, I would say
    9:14
    Yeah, I would say
    9:14
    Yeah, I would say a lot of the games nowadays, you know, you'll start a multiball and all the shots on the playfield will be lit. And sometimes you're fine just, you know, flailing away and shooting any lit shots. But there will be some games where you have to know various multiplier rules and there's multiple stages and if you plan everything right, you can have exponentially higher values and whatnot in your shots and you know just knowing these things it's really hard to to make those things happen if you don't know how to set it up. >> For sure. I'm playing Bond currently
    9:51
    For sure. I'm playing Bond currently
    9:51
    For sure. I'm playing Bond currently which I think is a good example of a game that is >> perfect. That's a perfect example
    9:55
    perfect. That's a perfect example
    9:55
    perfect. That's a perfect example because that you can get up to 7x playfield for over a minute. I think it's a minute and a half and it's going to be really tough to ever get that going if you don't even know how to light all of the multipliers at the upper loop. But if you get that, you could literally start one of the modes and press the action button four times in 7x Playfield and get like 700 million in a few seconds. And someone your doesn't know that. How are they, you know, they're not really going to beat you. So at all right your points per minute at that point are just like astronomical. [laughter] Um so I we are live so please uh chat feel free to sign off. Chat is already signing off but I feel like I have to say that so when people watch it later they think that there's lots of people watching. Uh so Divisible Error wants to know what's your favorite pin of all time and by generation which I think is such an annoying question but I cannot pass on the opportunity of asking the number one player in the world this. So Divisible I'm with you on this one for once. All right. Uh, yeah, >> we'll do do classic, mid, and modern.
    10:53
    we'll do do classic, mid, and modern.
    10:53
    we'll do do classic, mid, and modern. That'll be the the the three. >> Classic. We actually, believe it or not,
    10:59
    Classic. We actually, believe it or not,
    10:59
    Classic. We actually, believe it or not, only have one em in our house, and that's Grand Prix. And I was just playing it before. It's it's such an addicting, fun game. Some of the most satisfying spinners ever. >> Absolutely. Those two side spinner
    11:10
    Absolutely. Those two side spinner
    11:10
    Absolutely. Those two side spinner shots, and a great like the playfield artwork with the giant V up the middle is just like >> Yeah, totally. So, that's definitely at
    11:18
    Yeah, totally. So, that's definitely at
    11:18
    Yeah, totally. So, that's definitely at the top of my list. Grand Prix is great. Uh, mid is going to be tougher, but I >> I mean, you have an amazing wall of 90s
    11:26
    I mean, you have an amazing wall of 90s
    11:26
    I mean, you have an amazing wall of 90s mids behind you, which is sad that these are now mids because at some point those were modern. >> And at some point, I guess they'll be
    11:33
    And at some point, I guess they'll be
    11:33
    And at some point, I guess they'll be old, but that's going to make it tough to to divide in tournaments. [laughter] >> Yeah. They'll have to figure out a new
    11:40
    Yeah. They'll have to figure out a new
    11:40
    Yeah. They'll have to figure out a new way of categorizing them at some point. >> Yeah. So, actually the game in your
    11:45
    Yeah. So, actually the game in your
    11:45
    Yeah. So, actually the game in your background is is at the top of my list in that category. The Shadow is one of my favorite games of all time because there's so many different ways to play it and it's just it's such a great package. Like you could choose to, you know, grind the left orbit upper loop combos all day. You could play the game out normally and still get a really solid score. It's it's a lot of fun. And and there's all these, you know, ramp diverters. >> Surprisingly large bonus on Shadow
    12:10
    Surprisingly large bonus on Shadow
    12:10
    Surprisingly large bonus on Shadow sometimes, too. Yeah, since the modes pay out after >> all of your all of your points from
    12:15
    all of your all of your points from
    12:15
    all of your all of your points from modes are only awarded in bonus. So, you know, another thing to be careful. But that's a great game. Uh the creature from the Black Lagoon is right behind you, >> which is in the background of you. We're
    12:25
    which is in the background of you. We're
    12:26
    which is in the background of you. We're trading we're trading best mids. [laughter] >> Yeah, that is that is really up there.
    12:30
    Yeah, that is that is really up there.
    12:30
    Yeah, that is that is really up there. And in my opinion, that that might just be the the best multiball in all of pinball because it's super high pressure. Yeah. Go ahead. Well, so I wanted I just I'm curious because creature has some really exploitable point systems on it and for someone like you, for example, like uh move your car is a really easy way of kind of like blowing up creature as a player that there's there's so much of the game that's still amazing to play. How do you train yourself to like not just exploit it for points to appreciate kind of more of what the game has to offer? >> Yeah, in tournaments, move your car can
    13:04
    Yeah, in tournaments, move your car can
    13:04
    Yeah, in tournaments, move your car can be the move, but when I'm playing for fun, I I never really do that at all. I just try to get a crazy multiball going because you could get exponentially high points like with the jackpots and super rounds because every time you get a jackpot, the super is like multiplied and then the next jackpot after that is what the super just was. So it just keeps like multiplying forever. You could get billions in one shot eventually. >> That's amazing.
    13:34
    That's amazing.
    13:34
    That's amazing. >> The animations are so awesome. It's such
    13:35
    The animations are so awesome. It's such
    13:36
    The animations are so awesome. It's such a good Super Jackpot animation. Great dots. Some of the best dots in the 90s for sure. >> Yeah. And the multiball is it's it's
    13:43
    Yeah. And the multiball is it's it's
    13:43
    Yeah. And the multiball is it's it's might just be my favorite because it's it's two ball. You know, the middle is it's wider between the flippers than most games. So, it's it's a tougher game and there's so many stages and you have you have to play perfectly and there's only a few shots lit at a time. I I honestly wish that more games nowadays had at least a couple multiballs or or one where, you know, it wasn't just all the shots lit at a time where it's like you have a couple of of objectives to do and then you you lead up to the ultimate payoff eventually. >> Sure.
    14:17
    Sure.
    14:17
    Sure. >> I feel like it's much more rewarding.
    14:19
    I feel like it's much more rewarding.
    14:19
    I feel like it's much more rewarding. >> But two ball is another cool thing that
    14:21
    But two ball is another cool thing that
    14:21
    But two ball is another cool thing that is like kind of making a return. I mean, you know, there's a two ball in uh you know, in Kong, I guess. I just I feel like two ball multiballs allow for a lot more control for players that maybe aren't at your level, but also just uh you they usually have unique rules assigned to them because of the fact that they are two balls and they don't have as much kind of kinetic chaos. >> Yeah, exactly. Like you have to be more
    14:42
    Yeah, exactly. Like you have to be more
    14:42
    Yeah, exactly. Like you have to be more methodical with how you you play it out. And you know, it's it's a lot of fun. >> All right. And moderns, let's do it.
    14:50
    All right. And moderns, let's do it.
    14:50
    All right. And moderns, let's do it. >> Moderns. Jurassic Park, the the newer
    14:53
    Moderns. Jurassic Park, the the newer
    14:53
    Moderns. Jurassic Park, the the newer one made by Keith Elwin, is is really up there for me. It has really good flow. Uh the rules are not too complex, but they're they're really cohesive. And yeah, I I I would just play that for fun so much like the past several years. >> It's an amazing game. A lot of people
    15:11
    It's an amazing game. A lot of people
    15:11
    It's an amazing game. A lot of people complain about the grindiness of it because of the kind of progressively more difficult kind of paddocks as you get deeper and deeper. something that has never bothered me. I think that the rules change for it enough and what you need to do to kind of capture people, but what would you what would you say to people that that claim that that's too too grindy for them? >> Uh, I mean, there's there's so many
    15:32
    Uh, I mean, there's there's so many
    15:32
    Uh, I mean, there's there's so many others, of course. Uh, let's see. Jaws is it's it's different, but if you if you like that layout, that's a fun one in my opinion. Godzilla, I know, is has been up there for many people. Uh, I'm listing all the Keith games, but of course there's so many >> I mean, they're my favorite games, too.
    15:51
    I mean, they're my favorite games, too.
    15:51
    I mean, they're my favorite games, too. And I I think that Elwin is >> I mean, he's just such an amazing
    15:54
    I mean, he's just such an amazing
    15:54
    I mean, he's just such an amazing designer. It's just you cannot deny it. I talked a little bit about how I like that his games uh and and I'd love to hear your opinion on this. Oh, damn it. Someone dropping those rewards. Uh what I really love about games is that you have so much choice in terms of how you want to progress in terms of getting points and you also have so much choice from flipper like location. The games frequently from both flippers have multiple shots that you can make whether it's backhand or forehand. But like on top of those complex rule sets and layered rule sets, the game allows you to kind of play it how you want to instead of dictating how it should be played. >> Yeah, I love that too. There's, you
    16:32
    Yeah, I love that too. There's, you
    16:32
    Yeah, I love that too. There's, you know, on on pretty much all his games, the shots feel great. You they have good flow and yeah, there's almost every shot has some purpose. I think that's what he usually goes for. And yeah, just really, really fun package. Uh, all of his games. Also, Iron Maiden. Can't sleep on that game. I also own an Iron Maiden. And yeah, it's it's so much fun. It's his games are are great to practice, you know, flipper skills and stuff like that with. Absolutely. Um, Broaden Dex is asking, "How often do you practice pinball nowadays compared to how often you started when you were practicing?" I probably should, but um I've been playing at home this past week, which has been a lot of fun. But other than that, I've been stuck at school and I, you know, before this nationals and indisc multiple weekends, I had not played for a few months honestly almost or a couple months. But there actually is a place locally, it's like within an hour from from my campus. I go to Rowan University. Um, the Delaware Pinball Collective. They're really really fun spot to play at. I I should go more often, honestly. But they got like I'm not sure how many games, maybe over like 60 or something. Great great place to practice. And they have like monthly tournaments, so I'll do that sometimes. >> And they stream on Twitch. You should
    17:54
    And they stream on Twitch. You should
    17:54
    And they stream on Twitch. You should check them out. If you are a Twitch person who likes to watch pinball, you can absolutely see some of their broadcasts, especially I think on Fridays or Sundays, they do their tournament streams. >> Um,
    18:03
    Um,
    18:03
    Um, >> pretty neat stuff. Uh so one thing that
    18:07
    pretty neat stuff. Uh so one thing that
    18:07
    pretty neat stuff. Uh so one thing that kind of surprised me, so you're a double major in both uh nutrition and and exercise science. Is that correct? >> Yep.
    18:14
    Yep.
    18:14
    Yep. >> How how much do you think fitness plays
    18:15
    How how much do you think fitness plays
    18:15
    How how much do you think fitness plays a role in terms of of performing in pinball? >> Definitely. You know, not like it's not
    18:22
    Definitely. You know, not like it's not
    18:22
    Definitely. You know, not like it's not everything compared to the other mainstream sports, but you know, there definitely is physicality in pinball. It's not like you're just sitting down playing a video game. You know, you're standing all day. you have to physically nudge and move the game around. Uh I think maybe to some extent it it could definitely benefit you to to have good fitness with that. But I I mean I've been lazy. I'll just admit like I I need to be going to the gym more often these [laughter] days. But >> don't we all? It gets more important as
    18:51
    don't we all? It gets more important as
    18:51
    don't we all? It gets more important as you get older and your body starts failing you, [laughter] which you know because you're learning about it in school, right? >> Exactly. the uh we talked a little bit
    18:58
    Exactly. the uh we talked a little bit
    18:58
    Exactly. the uh we talked a little bit about sports injuries and you told a story about uh at Indis that was pretty funny. Uh I don't know do you can you share can you share the hand disaster? >> Yeah. So, I woke up like on one of the
    19:10
    Yeah. So, I woke up like on one of the
    19:10
    Yeah. So, I woke up like on one of the qualifying days and I saw Arvid posted something about his hand and it showed his hand all his palm all bandaged up and he basically just said, "Yeah, don't don't rage plunge on Excalibur, guys." Because apparently Excalibur the plunger has the spiky plunger on it. So, you know, his palm went right through that. It didn't look too bad like the next day thankfully. But I've always been scared of doing something like that where I, you know, in a moment of rage I I forget about the spiky plunger. So, got to be careful with it. >> Do you think maybe there's something to
    19:45
    Do you think maybe there's something to
    19:46
    Do you think maybe there's something to like rigging your game up to like hurt you to help train in a certain way? Like shock you if you do certain things that shouldn't be, you know, just wire the solenoid, you know, 50 volts or 48 volts right to the edge of the cabinet so if you mess up a little bit, you get zapped. >> Uh, yeah. I guess that would be what?
    20:02
    Uh, yeah. I guess that would be what?
    20:02
    Uh, yeah. I guess that would be what? Negative feedback or something like that, >> right? It's like like Ghostbusters,
    20:06
    right? It's like like Ghostbusters,
    20:06
    right? It's like like Ghostbusters, right? >> Positive punishment or something like
    20:08
    Positive punishment or something like
    20:08
    Positive punishment or something like that where it scares you out of failing. I don't know. I've been trying that, but >> maybe something to explore here.
    20:16
    maybe something to explore here.
    20:16
    maybe something to explore here. >> I wouldn't recommend hurting yourself,
    20:18
    I wouldn't recommend hurting yourself,
    20:18
    I wouldn't recommend hurting yourself, but um there's many ways to to get you to to play good, I guess. >> I'm trying to think what other what
    20:25
    I'm trying to think what other what
    20:25
    I'm trying to think what other what other games have what you would call like dangerous plungers on them. Like what games would you not rage pledge on? >> A lot. I forget exactly which ones, but
    20:38
    A lot. I forget exactly which ones, but
    20:38
    A lot. I forget exactly which ones, but there there's a lot of them. You gota you got to be careful with the plungers. A lot of like the the EM or solid state games from decades ago. >> Yeah.
    20:48
    Yeah.
    20:48
    Yeah. >> I guess I mean Excalibur I forget when
    20:50
    I guess I mean Excalibur I forget when
    20:50
    I guess I mean Excalibur I forget when that's from. I think that's it's not newer, is it? Which game? I forget. Excalibur. Excalibur. I'm not sure what year you're this from, >> but yeah, that apparently has it. So,
    21:03
    but yeah, that apparently has it. So,
    21:03
    but yeah, that apparently has it. So, always be careful. >> I have a lot of games that have like
    21:08
    I have a lot of games that have like
    21:08
    I have a lot of games that have like firearm handles, for lack of a better word, but I like to call them dick smashers because I feel like every time I like try to move around there, I just like, you know what I mean? Have you ever have you ever taken a a pinball handle to the junk? I must have. I must have at some point. And you know, shadow the shadow right behind you has the the trigger for the plunger. Perfect example. Yeah, I must have I must have walked into, you know, if I'm walking sideways and not paying attention, you know, they're just sticking out. They could hurt you. >> Yeah, I think TNG has probably done the
    21:38
    Yeah, I think TNG has probably done the
    21:38
    Yeah, I think TNG has probably done the most damage to me. I feel like I've had at one point like multiple inner thigh bruises. >> We actually have [snorts] that game
    21:44
    We actually have [snorts] that game
    21:44
    We actually have [snorts] that game here. It's so much fun. >> Amazing. That's another game that's
    21:47
    Amazing. That's another game that's
    21:47
    Amazing. That's another game that's really fun if you play the entire thing as opposed to just focusing on, you know, getting picard maneuvers and and warp spinners to get big big big points. >> You could just find multiball day, too.
    21:56
    You could just find multiball day, too.
    21:56
    You could just find multiball day, too. It's so fun. >> Yep. Amazing game.
    22:00
    Yep. Amazing game.
    22:00
    Yep. Amazing game. Um, so let's talk like mentality when you're in a tournament. You are, you said to me that you were a little off like less cool in your younger years, but I feel like the the Zer that we see playing on stream is someone who's just like you're like focused. You got your hoodie up. You're just you're dialed in. Like what how do you keep a a tournament mentality when you when you approach like such big, you know, high level tournaments? Yeah, that's the irony is that I used to be one of the more animated players when I was younger and I'd be very expressive when I play and and it's totally the opposite now. I guess I've learned for the better, I would say. But I've had so much experience and and my dad always helped me in the past because I I would get a temper pretty easily when playing in tournaments sometimes and something didn't go my way. And I it's I really say it's a a super important skill to to work on for all I mean it takes a while but you know the mental game is so important and it's one of the most important things when competing especially and >> you said something sorry
    23:11
    you said something sorry
    23:11
    you said something sorry >> no I was just going to say yeah that it
    23:13
    no I was just going to say yeah that it
    23:13
    no I was just going to say yeah that it takes a lot of work and you know if you if you can work on not getting flustered when something ridiculous happens when you're playing because you know that's That's how pinball is. Things will happen and you it's all about your response to it. So if you can respond either neutral or or you know somewhat positive as opposed to getting flustered and that will just help you so much you know going into the next ball into the next game and moving forward into the tournament. >> You said something that resonated really
    23:41
    You said something that resonated really
    23:41
    You said something that resonated really big with me when you were talking about how your attitude has changed recently with it which is that you said if you're if you're not having fun, what's the point? And that approaching the game with that mentality where you're enjoying playing it from ball to ball has really helped kind of like your mentality and dial in better scores. >> Yeah, I've been really trying to make
    24:01
    Yeah, I've been really trying to make
    24:01
    Yeah, I've been really trying to make sure I have a good time first and foremost. I think that honestly should be the most important thing because >> Wait, so are we updating our pyramid?
    24:07
    Wait, so are we updating our pyramid?
    24:07
    Wait, so are we updating our pyramid? Our like play pyramid? >> Maybe we should. Maybe. Well, yeah,
    24:12
    Maybe we should. Maybe. Well, yeah,
    24:12
    Maybe we should. Maybe. Well, yeah, it'll it'll definitely be up there in my opinion, but um I think you really should enjoy playing the game and and also competing like it's you know, you can you can look at it in multiple different ways, but I the more I do it nowadays, I I've been having a pretty good time, you know, going to these events and seeing such great people. Pinball community is awesome. Um I'm just trying to have a good time these days. And in turn, I really think that that actually helps me play better. So, so I think it that is super important. You got to have fun. >> Totally. You know, why are you doing it?
    24:47
    Totally. You know, why are you doing it?
    24:47
    Totally. You know, why are you doing it? I wouldn't be competing in in all these championships if I wasn't enjoying it cuz I would just be miserable. But yeah, it's great. >> It seems silly, but I mean it's true.
    24:57
    It seems silly, but I mean it's true.
    24:57
    It seems silly, but I mean it's true. Like I see a lot of players that kind of get worked up and get shattered by having bad games or bad balls and they're just like not having any fun and it's like you can't help but wonder like well you're kind you're doing this a little bit to yourself, right? you know, at that point, like no one's no one's making you play bad, and if you're not enjoying it, like it's a it's an internal battle more than an external battle. Um, >> yeah, it really is the internal battle
    25:17
    yeah, it really is the internal battle
    25:17
    yeah, it really is the internal battle with pinball. I think that's >> Master Sword 101 wants to know, "What if
    25:21
    Master Sword 101 wants to know, "What if
    25:21
    Master Sword 101 wants to know, "What if you don't like a particular machine? How do you approach that in a tournament setting?" I would highly recommend at least forcing yourself or trying to to trick yourself to like every game you play in any tournament because if you go into a game already with negative thoughts and thinking, I don't want to play this. I I hate this game, chances are you're not going to do as well and you might not win on it. So, if if you you know, as long as you know what you're doing and you know how to play it, at least for the time being, like when you go step up and play that game in the tournament, just force yourself to at least like a little bit. And just don't bring in like negative thoughts cuz that'll that'll mess up how you play. >> Sure. This one's for me because I need
    26:05
    Sure. This one's for me because I need
    26:05
    Sure. This one's for me because I need some help on this. When you have a game at home that you've just put so much mileage on and you step up to the same game that's on location, how do you quickly dial into to know the differences. How do you untrain the muscle memory from just hours on your own game? >> That's a good question. Um, yeah,
    26:23
    That's a good question. Um, yeah,
    26:23
    That's a good question. Um, yeah, because I have a lot of games here that I keep seeing. They're very common in tournaments. Um, honestly, at least for me nowadays, I'm able to much more quickly adjust to the the timings of the tournament copy of the game. But it um you know sometimes you'll even play you know people who are are local to the location and they they play it all the time. In my opinion that's not really relevant because it it honestly shouldn't take you that much time to adjust to the shots. You know you just if if you have um if you're given practice time in the tournaments that that's perfect to try to learn the shots and also learn the tilt. >> Sure. does the see how that feels and
    27:05
    Sure. does the see how that feels and
    27:05
    Sure. does the see how that feels and yeah it it doesn't feeds flipper timing and like tilt sensitivity would you say? Is that like the fundamentals for like how to quickly assess like an on location game? >> Yeah, I'll I'll first and foremost, you
    27:18
    Yeah, I'll I'll first and foremost, you
    27:18
    Yeah, I'll I'll first and foremost, you know, try to find the plunge if there's an important skill shot. Sometimes I'll try multiple times, you know, if it's like an older game and you really need to find the plunge. So find the plunge then you know uh you just find the the timings for most of the shots and then yeah feeds of course tilt and you maybe try like you know if if you can post pass and and various flipper skills on certain games bounce pass. So yeah all these things I'm running through my head and and trying to to remember for when I play you know the real game on it. >> Why don't got games like dead bounces?
    27:54
    Why don't got games like dead bounces?
    27:54
    Why don't got games like dead bounces? Why do they hate them so much? Those rubbers are mean. >> Different flipper mechs. Uh, I don't
    27:59
    Different flipper mechs. Uh, I don't
    27:59
    Different flipper mechs. Uh, I don't know what it is, but >> no give. It doesn't trampoline like, you
    28:02
    no give. It doesn't trampoline like, you
    28:02
    no give. It doesn't trampoline like, you know, Valley Williams WPC flippers. kind of annoying, but [laughter] I mean those they're usually pretty strong flippers, I would say, on goalibs, but >> I got burned on surf and safari
    28:13
    I got burned on surf and safari
    28:14
    I got burned on surf and safari regularly thinking that I would be able to d bounce and our copy at ace just is >> that's a fear of mine is, you know, I I
    28:21
    that's a fear of mine is, you know, I I
    28:21
    that's a fear of mine is, you know, I I always hope to not just make a fool of myself by, you know, trying a dead bounce and failing and costing a ball an important moment. if I if I have to, I'll try to test that maybe in multiball or something, but I I try not to be like super risky if I don't know at all what's going to happen. >> So, I I want to talk about risk in a
    28:42
    So, I I want to talk about risk in a
    28:42
    So, I I want to talk about risk in a second because I think that's a really another important element of the kind of like pinball pyramid in terms of playing really well. But you also mentioned that you need to try to like every game, even games you hate. But let's pretend that is like not the reality. What's the game you hate? The game I hate, uh, I would say Beatles is like not not that great. >> Do you like Sea Witch or [laughter]
    29:06
    Do you like Sea Witch or [laughter]
    29:06
    Do you like Sea Witch or [laughter] >> I like Sea Witch, but I don't know. It's
    29:09
    I like Sea Witch, but I don't know. It's
    29:09
    I like Sea Witch, but I don't know. It's it's interesting ad adaptation, but I don't know. I feel like it just the outlanes just kill me every second and the the the spinning record in the middle. It's so annoying because it'll just either spin it down the middle or it'll it'll just mess with the path. And >> Twister Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
    29:27
    Twister Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
    29:27
    Twister Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. When name a game where a spinning disc is actually fun for the game. >> I mean on Turtles it's kind of cool
    29:33
    I mean on Turtles it's kind of cool
    29:33
    I mean on Turtles it's kind of cool because that's how you get the multiball pizza to start. >> That's true.
    29:38
    That's true.
    29:38
    That's true. >> But yeah, I I really try to like most
    29:41
    But yeah, I I really try to like most
    29:41
    But yeah, I I really try to like most games. >> Yeah.
    29:45
    Yeah.
    29:45
    Yeah. >> Fair. So Benji Benji's asking how much
    29:47
    Fair. So Benji Benji's asking how much
    29:47
    Fair. So Benji Benji's asking how much do you have problems with a game where you see that the something is like not working as it should. So he uses the example weak flippers or not aligned ones. It would have to be pretty aggressively bad to go into it like it's so far that it's now like not functioning right. Like otherwise it's just a quirk of the location, right? >> Yeah. I mean
    30:08
    Yeah. I mean
    30:08
    Yeah. I mean sometimes you have to deal with that. Sometimes in tournaments a game will have some weird, you know, issues on it. And, you know, that's an important thing too is you have to prepare yourself to adapt in those situations. And if some if some strategy that you normally do like on location or at home or something doesn't work in the tournament on that same game, you're going to have to find another way to to score on it because you're not always going to be you have to prepare yourself to to improvise. >> It's like that's just part of the
    30:42
    It's like that's just part of the
    30:42
    It's like that's just part of the quirks. Like I know a lot of people that get pissed. They're like, "Oh, this doesn't play as good as mine at home or something." It's like that's not the point. This is the experience. It's like this game right here is what you need to be, you know, playing well on. >> Mhm. And worst case, you play like a
    30:55
    Mhm. And worst case, you play like a
    30:55
    Mhm. And worst case, you play like a really tough setup in a tournament and then eventually you see that game somewhere else at another tournament and it plays much easier. Well, now you're already like overprepared because it'll feel so easy to you. So, it's all relative. >> So, you mentioned like
    31:09
    So, you mentioned like
    31:09
    So, you mentioned like >> you mentioned having a fear of like
    31:10
    you mentioned having a fear of like
    31:10
    you mentioned having a fear of like having a bad ball at a critical moment. When something like that does happen, like how do you like reenter yourself to like get back on target? I just try to like you have to just really quickly reset yourself and just try to forget it even happened because you can't keep fixating on it moving on to the next ball to the next game cuz and it's it's like that with everything. You have to just really work on your mental game. I just I can't stress that enough. Like it and it takes practice, but you have to just refocus on what your plan is going into the next ball and that you have to let that dominate your thoughts instead of, you know, mess ups that you had in the past. >> Fair. As a nutritional major, this is a
    31:56
    Fair. As a nutritional major, this is a
    31:56
    Fair. As a nutritional major, this is a really important question for me. Which tournament has like the best food? >> The best food? I mean diners got it all
    32:04
    The best food? I mean diners got it all
    32:04
    The best food? I mean diners got it all right. >> Well, I don't mean particular game. I'm
    32:06
    Well, I don't mean particular game. I'm
    32:06
    Well, I don't mean particular game. I'm talking about like actual event and or area. >> Yeah.
    32:10
    Yeah.
    32:10
    Yeah. >> Which event in my area has the best
    32:12
    Which event in my area has the best
    32:12
    Which event in my area has the best food? >> Not necessarily in your area. This could
    32:14
    Not necessarily in your area. This could
    32:14
    Not necessarily in your area. This could be international, you know, like Shrimp on the barbie down in Netherorld or something. >> Germany, Austria, both of those trips.
    32:21
    Germany, Austria, both of those trips.
    32:21
    Germany, Austria, both of those trips. They had really good bratworth and and all the sausage there was so good. >> I' I've been to Berlin. I can't agree
    32:28
    I' I've been to Berlin. I can't agree
    32:28
    I' I've been to Berlin. I can't agree with you. The [ __ ] sausage is out of control delicious. Yeah, that's their thing. So, yeah, that was that was great to have. Um, >> yeah, I mean,
    32:39
    yeah, I mean,
    32:40
    yeah, I mean, >> well, what about the states?
    32:42
    well, what about the states?
    32:42
    well, what about the states? >> Cuz a lot of a lot of tournaments are at
    32:43
    Cuz a lot of a lot of tournaments are at
    32:44
    Cuz a lot of a lot of tournaments are at conventions really far away. They're kind of in food deserts, you know what I mean? >> Yeah.
    32:49
    Yeah.
    32:49
    Yeah. It's funny because the the go-to place me, my dad, and some other friends like years ago used to always go to was it was like tradition going to Denny's after, you know, while we're going to the the pop world championships or whatnot. >> Sure. But uh honestly, we'll just on the
    33:03
    Sure. But uh honestly, we'll just on the
    33:03
    Sure. But uh honestly, we'll just on the fly, you know, we'll we'll see what some of our other friends want to go to in the area and whatnot. But yeah, maybe a good steak place or something. >> Good steak place. We'll go we'll go with
    33:13
    Good steak place. We'll go we'll go with
    33:13
    Good steak place. We'll go we'll go with good steak place. Um [laughter] tournaments are obviously really grueling, ones that are multiple days long. How the fatigue has to be extreme for that? I mean, you're playing pinball for 8 10 hours sometimes per day. What are what are some pro tips for keeping uh limber for lack of a better word? >> Yeah, I mean the fatigue is is a really
    33:39
    Yeah, I mean the fatigue is is a really
    33:39
    Yeah, I mean the fatigue is is a really a big thing because especially at like the IFPA World Championships and the the really long tournament weekends that it can get so easy to just both physically and mentally get tired and if if you're not up to that, you're not going to make it in the end. So, and those those were really really tough ones for me to win those world championships. You know, you have to stay in it mentally the entire weekend. So, you know, tournaments will sometimes even start on Thursday, but usually it's like Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So, that yeah, that is a really important thing. If you could maybe find some way to build up your endurance or something like that, >> stretches, take some yoga classes or
    34:26
    stretches, take some yoga classes or
    34:26
    stretches, take some yoga classes or something, maybe. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Whatever.
    34:28
    Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Whatever.
    34:28
    Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Whatever. Whatever you Whatever floats your boat. >> Dalton's here. Did you say hi to Dalton?
    34:34
    Dalton's here. Did you say hi to Dalton?
    34:34
    Dalton's here. Did you say hi to Dalton? >> Oh, shoot. Dalton, what's up, man?
    34:36
    Oh, shoot. Dalton, what's up, man?
    34:36
    Oh, shoot. Dalton, what's up, man? [laughter] >> He says, "All hail the goat." And he's
    34:39
    He says, "All hail the goat." And he's
    34:39
    He says, "All hail the goat." And he's got giant magic hands like you're you're like a m a magician. Like you are sorcerer. That's [snorts] Dalton. It was great seeing him at nationals this past weekend. It >> was it was amazing competition. I think
    34:55
    was it was amazing competition. I think
    34:55
    was it was amazing competition. I think Knax and Indis were some of the best pinball this year so far, which is, you know, it's still pretty early in the year, so who knows, right? Are you is there a competition you're looking forward to for the rest of the year in particular? >> Yes, I have the chance to defend I think
    35:08
    Yes, I have the chance to defend I think
    35:08
    Yes, I have the chance to defend I think in the next few weeks it'll be fantastic. I'll hopefully be able to make that again. and then the IFPA World Championships. It'll be in Wisconsin at District 82 this year, which is very exciting. >> So, I'm trying to go for the re the
    35:21
    So, I'm trying to go for the re the
    35:21
    So, I'm trying to go for the re the three repeat. Uh we'll see if it happens. It's going to be it's going to be tough, but >> worst case I don't do it. It's fine. I'm
    35:28
    worst case I don't do it. It's fine. I'm
    35:28
    worst case I don't do it. It's fine. I'm satisfied anyway. >> I mean, you've already put some
    35:31
    I mean, you've already put some
    35:31
    I mean, you've already put some legendary situations going on. Um I want to talk about modern pinball and the direction it's going uh in a second, but we got a few more shout outs. People are saying what's up. uh a melody at onilt represent to our our local hangout says that you're her favorite player to watch which is great. Uh Tenacious wants to know if you're going to TPF. >> I really wish. I've never been there but
    35:53
    I really wish. I've never been there but
    35:53
    I really wish. I've never been there but I've heard really good things about it and I've watched it on stream pretty much every year. So >> maybe that could be best food coming up
    35:59
    maybe that could be best food coming up
    35:59
    maybe that could be best food coming up if you went right cuz Texas barbecue >> definitely would be up there. Yeah, I
    36:03
    definitely would be up there. Yeah, I
    36:03
    definitely would be up there. Yeah, I love Texas barbecue. I did play in Texas uh for nationals and pin masters in 2017 when I went to New Jersey states almost 10 years ago. That was a really really fun trip. >> It's crazy that you've been playing
    36:15
    It's crazy that you've been playing
    36:15
    It's crazy that you've been playing pinball since you were like two. Unbelievable. [laughter] >> Yeah, I was born in 2004 and then yeah,
    36:21
    Yeah, I was born in 2004 and then yeah,
    36:21
    Yeah, I was born in 2004 and then yeah, 2010s was was really when I was getting into it. >> Yeah. As an old person, I don't want to
    36:25
    Yeah. As an old person, I don't want to
    36:25
    Yeah. As an old person, I don't want to hear that you were born in the 2000s. It just absolutely just destroys me. Uh Johnny Tlap says, "Is being the ball good advice?" Uh what's uh could you say it again? >> Be the ball. Just be the ball.
    36:39
    Be the ball. Just be the ball.
    36:39
    Be the ball. Just be the ball. >> Oh, be the ball.
    36:42
    Oh, be the ball.
    36:42
    Oh, be the ball. >> Yes. I'm
    36:42
    Yes. I'm
    36:42
    Yes. I'm >> going to go with no then you don't think
    36:43
    going to go with no then you don't think
    36:44
    going to go with no then you don't think that's good advice >> and and be the flippers. You know,
    36:46
    and and be the flippers. You know,
    36:46
    and and be the flippers. You know, basically treat pinball as like an extension of yourself. No. Um but you really just have to like feel the flow like you're kind of in the game when you're really getting into that in the zone state. >> Sure.
    37:00
    Sure.
    37:00
    Sure. >> So that's Yeah. I mean, whatever
    37:03
    So that's Yeah. I mean, whatever
    37:03
    So that's Yeah. I mean, whatever whatever you want to call it, you know, just kind of get locked in when you're playing. >> Roller Coasters is another uh college
    37:10
    Roller Coasters is another uh college
    37:10
    Roller Coasters is another uh college playing student who plays up at Arcade Legacy uh pretty frequently. He's asking for advice for college players who can only play far and few between. Doesn't have quite the flexibility that your schedule might have. What's your advice to stay warmed up when going to tournaments with large gaps between play? Yeah. And actually, I would say I don't have that much flexibility either right now, you know, with my college situation. I I've been h, you know, very selective with the tournaments I go to, especially last couple years. But yeah, I've I've really just been prioritizing the tournaments where I could, you know, maybe net points from or or just my favorite ones to go to each year. Like, you know, maybe it's something locally in Delaware. That's those are the the easier ones to go to. And that's a great place for me to practice in tournaments locally. It's great to have at least one of those kinds of locations near you to to practice. You know, it's some stakes, but it's >> it's lower than like the biggest events.
    38:07
    it's lower than like the biggest events.
    38:07
    it's lower than like the biggest events. So, that's good for gaining experience competing. For sure. >> It's also great advice like you're
    38:12
    It's also great advice like you're
    38:12
    It's also great advice like you're saying to not just prioritize, you know, whopper points that also like just going to see people or playing at tournaments that you would actually enjoy playing is is a reason to travel as well. It's not just about the rankings. >> Yeah. you want to prioritize more, you
    38:25
    Yeah. you want to prioritize more, you
    38:25
    Yeah. you want to prioritize more, you know, go with that. Like I cuz I I have to maintain the ranks, so I also have to prioritize points as well, but I am trying to also just have choose the events I'm going to have a good time at. So that's that's huge. >> So let's talk about modern pinball
    38:41
    So let's talk about modern pinball
    38:41
    So let's talk about modern pinball design just cuz I think that at someone at your level, right, you talked about knowing the rules for games becoming really important and games have become more complicated by a long shot. Average play time for a game that's like an L1 game now is 30 40 minutes or so for for a player that's like of a high skill level. In terms of competition play, do you think that there is a a better way or that this pinball design in general should how does it supposed to cater to both the home environment and a tournament player other than just pulling rubbers off and trying to make the game more difficult? >> Huh. Yeah. I mean mo most of the games I
    39:21
    Huh. Yeah. I mean mo most of the games I
    39:21
    Huh. Yeah. I mean mo most of the games I think they they do the best they can and I think a lot of times they do a good job finding that balance of you know play time and you know making it replayable. That's that's the the deciding factor for if I want to get a game for home is longterm. Am I going to like when I'm home am I going to want to step up to that game and play it over and over a lot and try new things. the replayability is the most important for playing a game for fun. [snorts] And then in tournaments, sometimes that's that's irrelevant. Like if there's a game that I will I would never own, I I'll still sometimes pick it in tournaments just because it's super reliable and and comfortable for me to play. So there's differences with that. But yeah, those are are the big things. >> I like to say that there's no bad
    40:09
    I like to say that there's no bad
    40:09
    I like to say that there's no bad pinball machines. There's just ones that you would own and ones that you wouldn't cuz it is fun to play like games that are notoriously kind of like maybe not uh spoken well of on location just because it's fun to play all the different types of games that are available. Uh an unknown user here is asking how do they beat Jason Zer at pinball. >> Well, I'm not going to give away those
    40:29
    Well, I'm not going to give away those
    40:30
    Well, I'm not going to give away those secrets. No, >> I tried Dalton. Sorry.
    40:35
    I tried Dalton. Sorry.
    40:35
    I tried Dalton. Sorry. [sighs] I mean, you know, just a lot of what I've been saying obviously and I win every tournament, right? So, you I can I can lose and anyone can lose in pinball because there there is that that chancyy factor that exists here and there. So, the goal is of course to minimize that as much as possible and let the skill shine the most. >> Uh, EPG has suggested a Nancy Carrian
    40:59
    Uh, EPG has suggested a Nancy Carrian
    40:59
    Uh, EPG has suggested a Nancy Carrian style maneuver in order to beat you. I feel like you could still play like sitting down. Is there an IFPA rule against sitting in a chair to play? >> Well, it's funny you mentioned that
    41:07
    Well, it's funny you mentioned that
    41:07
    Well, it's funny you mentioned that because at indis nightm I actually picked that on stream and I did great sitting down and I mean it was just relaxed like what it was comfortable to sit down. I I guess based on my position I could I had enough leverage to move the game and do what I wanted to do. So >> that also had a custom ROM in it too,
    41:28
    that also had a custom ROM in it too,
    41:28
    that also had a custom ROM in it too, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, it was actually pretty fun.
    41:31
    Yeah. Yeah, it was actually pretty fun.
    41:31
    Yeah. Yeah, it was actually pretty fun. Instead of having to roll down one of the inner in lanes to light that top left loop for the big awards, you you could also shoot a standup target on the right side of playfield top right. So there's more skill in that version. >> Uh we also talked about how there was a
    41:48
    Uh we also talked about how there was a
    41:48
    Uh we also talked about how there was a custom ROM in Theater Magic as well. Is there is there something about knowing whether these mo these ROMs are in the games or do you just kind of like figure it out when you get there and then play it? Usually they'll have like a a note on on the game telling you the changes they made, stuff like that. So I'm pretty sure there was worst case uh you know other players will tell you or you'll find out some way. Hopefully you'll find out. But yeah, it was Yeah, that didn't change much of my decision making having that ROM in on theater because just play multiball out and and I would still shoot the left orbit for the >> Yeah, it was pretty it was orbits for
    42:26
    Yeah, it was pretty it was orbits for
    42:26
    Yeah, it was pretty it was orbits for days like pretty much everybody. It was just orbit, orbit, orbit, right? >> Yeah. Not much changed. But the only
    42:32
    Yeah. Not much changed. But the only
    42:32
    Yeah. Not much changed. But the only thing they actually did change, I actually picked Theater of Magic in the first round. I played in finals and it played great. I got like I think almost two billion or something. And then the next round, Vigo picked it on me, which I was excited for. But before we played it, I'm I think uh some of the the tournament directors or who whatever, they did something to the right orbit or they maybe they either removed I think they removed one of the posts. So, it changed the feed. So, you can't just easily live catch. So, that's a great example of you have to adapt to that immediately, >> right?
    43:06
    right?
    43:06
    right? >> So, I was able to find a way to still,
    43:09
    So, I was able to find a way to still,
    43:09
    So, I was able to find a way to still, you know, hit it off the wall and live catch and still just do what I want to do. So, you you know, they'll they can make changes mid tournament sometimes if it if the game takes too long, but you have to respond. >> What's your motivation for staying
    43:24
    What's your motivation for staying
    43:24
    What's your motivation for staying number one? Do you feel pressure to continue playing because you already are or does the love of the game override that? >> I would say it's to some extent a mix of
    43:35
    I would say it's to some extent a mix of
    43:35
    I would say it's to some extent a mix of both. I think much less the pressure now because I've I think it's been a couple years. I think the first time I hit rank one was June 2023. That was after my Germany world championship trip. So yeah, I know he and Esher were were swapping positions for rank one a lot, especially that year and even 2024. And then Zack McCarthy joined the mix, especially last year. So it's always fun being in like a in a race for the rank one. But I feel like especially last the last couple years were were more so the years that I had to or at least I more often felt I had to prove that I deserve rank one through through my play in tournaments and stuff. And I feel like at this point I've I've done all of that and I feel super satisfied with everything I've achieved. So everything moving forward is kind of like a bonus is the way I see it. And worst case I I lose rank one. I could, you know, I still had it already. So that my main goal. >> No one can take that away.
    44:39
    No one can take that away.
    44:39
    No one can take that away. >> Yeah.
    44:40
    Yeah.
    44:40
    Yeah. >> How did you uh how did you celebrate
    44:41
    How did you uh how did you celebrate
    44:41
    How did you uh how did you celebrate when you first got first place? Did you do anything special? >> Yeah. Yeah. I went out with my dad and
    44:48
    Yeah. Yeah. I went out with my dad and
    44:48
    Yeah. Yeah. I went out with my dad and some of our pinball friends and we went played some games and went out to eat. It was it was a good time. >> That's that's awesome that you went and
    44:55
    That's that's awesome that you went and
    44:55
    That's that's awesome that you went and played pinball after you were number one. That's that's how you know that you love pinball. [laughter] U it sounds like you and the other kind of like big big swingers in terms of top uh top players all have like a pretty good like relationship with each other. How do you how do you uh how do you keep that competition kind of like positive? >> Yeah. I mean, we're all just really good
    45:18
    Yeah. I mean, we're all just really good
    45:18
    Yeah. I mean, we're all just really good friends. And I've known Cher since the Papa Junior's division days from over 10 years ago. And Zack McCarthy I've known for several years now. And a lot of these these current top ranked younger players and and even, you know, the previous generation of of the greatest players. I I've known them because I've seen them at so many tournaments over the years now. And, you know, it's it's always great seeing them. There's they're all really really great people. So, I I just, you know, love having a good time and and playing the best game, pinball, and, you know, just have having a good time at these events. That's really my main thing. >> Awesome. Um, Indie Arcade Wave is
    46:01
    Awesome. Um, Indie Arcade Wave is
    46:01
    Awesome. Um, Indie Arcade Wave is playing his first tournament and wants to know how can you help him win? [laughter] I'm sorry, man. I feel like you're on your own on that one. >> No, you can hit me up. I if you want
    46:10
    No, you can hit me up. I if you want
    46:10
    No, you can hit me up. I if you want some, you know, game specific advice, I'll I could help with that. >> Oh, be careful. You're going to open up
    46:15
    Oh, be careful. You're going to open up
    46:15
    Oh, be careful. You're going to open up your Instagram for a flood of help me get better. Uh, Pinball Mafia, by the way, what's up, guys? Uh, Allan wants to know, "What's your take on picking game verse position?" >> Game is number one priority in my
    46:30
    Game is number one priority in my
    46:30
    Game is number one priority in my opinion. Um, I I won't really mind if I have to go first or not, honestly. Sometimes I even like going first just to just to get something up early on. Maybe, you know, put some other pressure on other players after me. It doesn't it's much less relevant the player order, >> but the game is super super important.
    46:49
    but the game is super super important.
    46:49
    but the game is super super important. Like I need to play or pick the games that I'm going to be the most comfortable on. >> And if I'm not driving the bus, you
    46:57
    And if I'm not driving the bus, you
    46:57
    And if I'm not driving the bus, you know, that's that's a big advantage to the person that is. It's it's much more important to pick game, I think. So, out of the 20 something years or almost 20 years since you started when you were two, right, of pinball that you've played, do you have a tournament moment that you would say is like the most incredible thing that comes to memory and then one that is like the most unsatisfying thing that has occurred? >> Yeah, I would say when I was younger,
    47:23
    Yeah, I would say when I was younger,
    47:23
    Yeah, I would say when I was younger, the biggest tournament that I won at the time was it was the Pinfest uh tournament in Allentown, Pennsylvania. That was 2018 and there was almost 200 players at that and that was definitely like a breakthrough win for me at the time because at you know before that point I had won you know a lot of the smaller local le you know maybe the New Jersey league or or local tournaments but this one there was so many players and a lot of like really high ranked players and and that was a really satisfying one to win at the time. >> Awesome. And the next one is obviously
    47:59
    Awesome. And the next one is obviously
    47:59
    Awesome. And the next one is obviously winning the first world championship in California in 2024, the IFA World Championship, IFA 19. And that I'd been trying for so long to to break through and win my first major. And you know, I in 2023, the year before, I had made the final four in all three of the majors that year. But I, you know, I was just one step away from winning it. So to be able to finally do that then in the next year was huge for me. That was definitely even to this day. >> Do you think those wins like paved the
    48:29
    Do you think those wins like paved the
    48:29
    Do you think those wins like paved the momentum? Do you feel like that like >> absolutely
    48:32
    absolutely
    48:32
    absolutely >> helped helped build that steamroll as it
    48:34
    helped helped build that steamroll as it
    48:34
    helped helped build that steamroll as it happened? >> Yeah, because once I I won the first one
    48:38
    Yeah, because once I I won the first one
    48:38
    Yeah, because once I I won the first one then it proved to myself that I can win a major and then it gets much easier in my opinion to win more after that. >> Gotcha. Um
    48:48
    Gotcha. Um
    48:48
    Gotcha. Um >> and then you mentioned
    48:50
    and then you mentioned
    48:50
    and then you mentioned >> Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. And then the
    48:51
    Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. And then the
    48:51
    Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. And then the worst moment. Do you have something that's just like, "Oh my god, I can't believe this [ __ ] happened." >> Yeah. I mean, I've had so many of those.
    48:58
    Yeah. I mean, I've had so many of those.
    48:58
    Yeah. I mean, I've had so many of those. Yeah. I would say one that sticks out is this that same year in when I was at Indisk in California and I wanted to to win a major so bad that tournament and I made the top 16. I think I was playing Echer, Vigo, and Raymond. Crazy crazy round of 16 group to play in. >> Yeah, that's wild. I I was like in the
    49:20
    Yeah, that's wild. I I was like in the
    49:20
    Yeah, that's wild. I I was like in the lead going into the third game and I think it was whirlwind and I I think I was putting so much pressure on myself to perform and I really thought that that was going to be my my tournament to win and it didn't go that way and I I choked it out on the ball three and I got knocked out that round and I was very very frustrated and I was like I think I was even crying like outside at that point. It it was a really really tough loss for me. I mean, you've worked hard to get to that place to even be able to compete in that tournament. I mean, I don't think people understand that the mental game is is is strong. >> Yeah. But I I'm very very glad that I
    49:58
    Yeah. But I I'm very very glad that I
    49:58
    Yeah. But I I'm very very glad that I bounced back after that tournament. And you know, I had my moment in in that same year a few months later. So, that's that's proof like you anyone can do it. Like even there was even a point before I was a major champ that I I was in the same boat as a ton of people wanting to win my first one. So just got to make it happen basically. >> Do you think having a loss like that is
    50:21
    Do you think having a loss like that is
    50:21
    Do you think having a loss like that is an important kind of building block to becoming a better player? I think yeah, maybe you don't have to, but I think if you have it, you have to use it or you really should use it as just a lesson or a learning experience as opposed to just looking at it as a failure and a loss, you know, and this is said across all the sports pretty much. >> Sure.
    50:43
    Sure.
    50:43
    Sure. >> I really think it's important to from
    50:45
    I really think it's important to from
    50:45
    I really think it's important to from all [clears throat] of your losses to look back and try to find the lessons in them. That's super important and then use those to correct that for next time. And then you just keep building off of there. And that's that's like one of the best ways to improve, I think. You have to go through really tough experiences in order to get to these points. >> Yeah. Challenge. You got to challenge
    51:05
    Yeah. Challenge. You got to challenge
    51:05
    Yeah. Challenge. You got to challenge yourself, right? Otherwise, what's the point? Um, oh [ __ ] I'm missing. There's a good question in here. Oh, right. Benji asked, so uh, do you know Abe Flips? Mhm. So, Abe Flips was the uh my previous podcast guest and Benji's asking if you have seen his mastering pinball and is just curious what your opinion on on his tutorial style and education is. >> Yeah, Abe Flips. I was he the one that
    51:33
    Yeah, Abe Flips. I was he the one that
    51:33
    Yeah, Abe Flips. I was he the one that came out with that or maybe like a documentary or something >> kind of he did he had YouTube tutorials
    51:39
    kind of he did he had YouTube tutorials
    51:39
    kind of he did he had YouTube tutorials for a while and then he he uh went and made a kind of like a full-on production of it that's kind of more of like a feature film. It's kind of like pinball 101. >> Well, I I'll reach out to Abe and get
    51:51
    Well, I I'll reach out to Abe and get
    51:51
    Well, I I'll reach out to Abe and get and and see if I can get you a code because I I'm curious what your thoughts are of it. I think that for me, I watched it and even though I know all the tricks and skills and all that that's in it, seeing it visualized and super high speed, it just like really helps kind of formulate a understanding of it to execute it better. >> Um, well, Benji, the answer to that is
    52:09
    Um, well, Benji, the answer to that is
    52:09
    Um, well, Benji, the answer to that is no, then. >> Sorry. Go ahead.
    52:12
    Sorry. Go ahead.
    52:12
    Sorry. Go ahead. >> I I look forward to seeing that at some
    52:14
    I I look forward to seeing that at some
    52:14
    I I look forward to seeing that at some point. Yeah, I watched the trailer and it looked really really cool. I think that's a really awesome thing he's doing. >> Yeah, it's it's great. It's quality
    52:21
    Yeah, it's it's great. It's quality
    52:21
    Yeah, it's it's great. It's quality pinball content for sure. Um, Shaosar is asking what's your time commitment and travel commitment like for staying on top. How of how many times like a year would you say or month like are you traveling for pinball tournaments? >> Definitely as of last year it's been a
    52:36
    Definitely as of last year it's been a
    52:36
    Definitely as of last year it's been a lot less. I think I only went to 12 tournaments believe it or not last all of last year. So each year it's been kind of decreasing because I've had to put more time and commitment into school and all these other things my life I'm trying to improve on. But >> yeah, definitely like 2024, 2023 were
    52:54
    yeah, definitely like 2024, 2023 were
    52:54
    yeah, definitely like 2024, 2023 were were huge grindy years for me. And that was back when, you know, all the top players are going to District 82 playing those four to five tournament weekends and all that. So high volume of tournaments, but nowadays it's been a lot less. Do you see yourself after school continuing to build the pinball tournament part of your life because it has more time available or do you see yourself focusing more on, you know, your educational career path? >> I think I I wish I didn't have to say
    53:23
    I think I I wish I didn't have to say
    53:23
    I think I I wish I didn't have to say it, but school and and the educational stuff will have to be top priority for me. You know, I wish I didn't have to play stuff above pinball, right? It would be so great. >> Sure. if I could if I could do this as
    53:36
    Sure. if I could if I could do this as
    53:36
    Sure. if I could if I could do this as my main thing, but for now it's it's my favorite hobby and whenever I get the chance to go to like the biggest events, I'll still keep going because it's a lot of fun, right? As long as I'm enjoying doing it. >> Sure.
    53:47
    Sure.
    53:47
    Sure. >> So, I do I don't plan on like totally
    53:49
    So, I do I don't plan on like totally
    53:49
    So, I do I don't plan on like totally dropping it off. That would be kind of sad. I I hope to keep going to to more of these big ones. >> For sure. But like you said, you have to
    53:56
    For sure. But like you said, you have to
    53:56
    For sure. But like you said, you have to prioritize yourself and you're you're already one. There's no there's nothing that can take that away from you. And if you're still going to them every once in a while to enjoy meeting the people and playing competitively that's important to you, then I guess it kind of doesn't matter, right? >> Yeah.
    54:10
    Yeah.
    54:10
    Yeah. >> Pinball Mafia says, "Confirmed adulting
    54:12
    Pinball Mafia says, "Confirmed adulting
    54:12
    Pinball Mafia says, "Confirmed adulting sucks." It's true. But when you love something, you find the you find the way, right? Um >> yeah, I think that gets me through all
    54:22
    yeah, I think that gets me through all
    54:22
    yeah, I think that gets me through all of my like tournament related questions. I just Yeah. I guess I want to thank you again obviously for taking the time. and I appreciate that uh your your school schedule lined up with our interview. [laughter] >> Yeah, this is this is perfect timing.
    54:36
    Yeah, this is this is perfect timing.
    54:36
    Yeah, this is this is perfect timing. >> Um, two more questions that I think are
    54:39
    Um, two more questions that I think are
    54:39
    Um, two more questions that I think are good and then we'll take a few more chat questions and then probably wrap it up. Uh, what is your favorite format for tournaments? >> Format honestly is less important to me.
    54:50
    Format honestly is less important to me.
    54:50
    Format honestly is less important to me. I I'm pretty fine with most of them, you know, whether it be Papa scoring, you know, 4210 points in the finals or Pinberg where you play four games and it's 3210 scoring. One format I really do enjoy that that we just played was pin masters, the pinolf format, >> but that's the only time I get to play
    55:12
    but that's the only time I get to play
    55:12
    but that's the only time I get to play that format each year. I kind of wish there was more incentive to run those for maybe even some whopper netting opportunities. >> So So for people that don't know, how do
    55:25
    So So for people that don't know, how do
    55:25
    So So for people that don't know, how do you how do you qualify or I'm sorry, how do you determine what the kind of like goal scores are for an an event like that? Cuz the skill level for people could vary widely and if it's if the bar is set too high and everybody's putting up nines and tens or whatever, it's it's kind of like I don't know, it could be unfun. >> Yeah. So, the way that they did it at
    55:43
    Yeah. So, the way that they did it at
    55:43
    Yeah. So, the way that they did it at Pin Masters was they looked at they took the average of all of the scores from nationals the day before and that's what they used to set those scores. But >> that's cheating. [laughter]
    55:54
    that's cheating. [laughter]
    55:54
    that's cheating. [laughter] >> Yeah. And I'm pretty sure like if
    55:57
    Yeah. And I'm pretty sure like if
    55:57
    Yeah. And I'm pretty sure like if there's some scores that were outliers that were really high, they just totally excluded those, which is nice. But, um, yeah, that's that's one way of doing it. But, usually you're not going to have something like that, >> right? So you could run pin masters as a
    56:10
    right? So you could run pin masters as a
    56:10
    right? So you could run pin masters as a supplemental tournament to any tournament that has just occurred pretty much and just use that data from the especially if it's going to be some of the same competitors. >> Yeah. As long as you write down every
    56:19
    Yeah. As long as you write down every
    56:19
    Yeah. As long as you write down every score that's played on the games and stuff. But I would say you have to take into consideration, you know, the the average skill level of the players that are going to be at the tournament you and how you set up the games and various things like that to to come up with good target scores. You know, I think after a while you'll get a good feel for for that >> on the tournament director at that
    56:44
    on the tournament director at that
    56:44
    on the tournament director at that point. Dalton says that we need objective based pin masters. I mean, that's kind of what headtohead is, right? >> Yeah. that and I I don't think I've
    56:52
    Yeah. that and I I don't think I've
    56:52
    Yeah. that and I I don't think I've played in one like that, but I I think Delaware has run stuff like that sometimes. That does sound fun, too, where it's like, okay, start this multiball or beat this mode in the quickest amount of time. I think that's what pin flash, that's how they run their tournament. >> This requires complete knowledge of the
    57:12
    This requires complete knowledge of the
    57:12
    This requires complete knowledge of the game though because you can't essentially like a lower like amateur level tournament wouldn't really be able to do that as well, I feel. Yeah, not necessarily complete knowledge, but just the the knowledge required to to complete that objective in the game unless it's like multiple steps. You know, there there could be more, you know, more difficult objectives to do that, >> right? I'm sorry, I'm laughing cuz
    57:33
    right? I'm sorry, I'm laughing cuz
    57:34
    right? I'm sorry, I'm laughing cuz Slinger said that for pin masters, my objective would be abandoning six Bond girls. I've had a really like good run the last couple of week getting six Bond girls and then draining. So, yeah. Real real funny, dude. Eat a bag of dicks. >> [laughter]
    57:46
    [laughter]
    57:46
    [laughter] >> Um, is there a tournament that you
    57:49
    Um, is there a tournament that you
    57:49
    Um, is there a tournament that you should that you would say is like your recommended tournament for someone to go to as their first tournament experience? >> I wouldn't say there's one specific, but
    57:59
    I wouldn't say there's one specific, but
    57:59
    I wouldn't say there's one specific, but I think, you know, if there's a league kind of close to you, that's pretty good because it's like a it's a consistent thing you have to show up each week to and it's it's it's pretty fun. You know, you have ongoing results throughout the weeks. um local tournaments, you know, doesn't really matter the size. You know, try to go to things locally, build that experience, and then eventually you don't have to get super specific with the event you go to. It's really just like get out there if this is what you want to do. >> Don't be afraid to play in with groups
    58:31
    Don't be afraid to play in with groups
    58:31
    Don't be afraid to play in with groups of other people. >> Yeah. I mean, the more you do it, the
    58:35
    Yeah. I mean, the more you do it, the
    58:35
    Yeah. I mean, the more you do it, the more comfortable you'll get eventually. So that's really just it's just about doing it and you know eventually go to Stern Pro Circuit events and that's that's where you'll see all the top players at. So that's a great way to get more experience. >> Sure. And watching them play live at
    58:50
    Sure. And watching them play live at
    58:50
    Sure. And watching them play live at tournaments because nothing helps seeing what the pros do like watching you guys compete at whatever tournament is being broadcast. Uh it's funny that EPGeek just said that Pinberg before the shutdown for CO is was his recommendation as a kind of a joke, but we were >> we were reminiscing about old Pinberg
    59:08
    we were reminiscing about old Pinberg
    59:08
    we were reminiscing about old Pinberg before, you know, the facility shut down and floods and all the other drama that has occurred out there. >> Um
    59:16
    Um
    59:16
    Um >> do you see the next generation of
    59:17
    do you see the next generation of
    59:17
    do you see the next generation of pinball players approaching the game differently? Like how do you like you've seen the older players play the game? I feel like your technique and your approach has changed compared to theirs. Do you see the next wave changing how pinball is played again? uh I wouldn't say totally changing but definitely like evolving it is the word I would say because you know the first the previous generation they paved the way for all of us now like we relied on their competitions their videos showcasing what their play styles were you know Keith Elwin Danieli all those greats um I mean I studied those videos when I was a lot like younger just learning what are these flipper skills that these guys are even doing. And then I would have a few games at home I could practice it on. That's a really great way to learn. And yeah, I would say definitely evolved would be a great word to to use. But also there are some changes and the thing is we we have all these newer games that play very very different from the games that were at all those tournaments back then. >> So there's like even more
    60:26
    So there's like even more
    60:26
    So there's like even more more skills you can do on these. So yeah. >> Sure. I feel like, you know, shatzing is
    60:30
    Sure. I feel like, you know, shatzing is
    60:30
    Sure. I feel like, you know, shatzing is a good example of something that didn't exist and then now does after a generation of pinball players. It's not super new, but you know, there have been flipper skills that have come out of of unique play styles. >> Yeah, definitely. They gave like I would
    60:44
    Yeah, definitely. They gave like I would
    60:44
    Yeah, definitely. They gave like I would say the the foundation. They gave us the foundation and we've built off of that. And you know, we have people like Arvid who we talked about earlier. He he does what we call the Arvid shimmy. So balls going into the out lane, you're going to lose the ball. But but if you're AR, you're not going to lose the ball because you can just shimmy the game like shake it back and forth, sideways, depending on which side it's on, and just keep doing it until you save the ball and things like that. I don't think anyone really used to do that much back in the day. >> There were a lot of great outlane wiggle
    61:17
    There were a lot of great outlane wiggle
    61:17
    There were a lot of great outlane wiggle saves over the last couple of tournaments. Um I forget who put it together, but somebody put kind of a compilation of like crazy wiggle shaves saves recently. >> Matthew Richardson. And I saw that clip
    61:26
    Matthew Richardson. And I saw that clip
    61:26
    Matthew Richardson. And I saw that clip of him on Harlem Globe Trouters on the left outland. >> Unbelievable.
    61:29
    Unbelievable.
    61:30
    Unbelievable. >> That because the kids we we try to go
    61:32
    That because the kids we we try to go
    61:32
    That because the kids we we try to go for those saves a lot more often I think than the previous generation did and think and also yeah tap passing on on any era of game. It's weird. I feel like I'm I'm more comfortable tap passing on like Valley Williams games than older games at this point. It's I just do it too often. >> I want was it Comet? Someone had an
    61:53
    I want was it Comet? Someone had an
    61:53
    I want was it Comet? Someone had an amazing save where it went down. You know what's the what's the roller coaster like uh game that where the in lane goes vertically straight down? It is Comet, right? Yeah. Someone had like drained past the gate into the like lower in lane and like jiggled it all the way back up through the gate. It was amazing and disc finals. >> Unbelievable.
    62:11
    Unbelievable.
    62:11
    Unbelievable. >> Ton of those in that same game and he
    62:13
    Ton of those in that same game and he
    62:13
    Ton of those in that same game and he rolled it. It was insane. >> Um Con's asked me a ton of questions
    62:17
    Um Con's asked me a ton of questions
    62:17
    Um Con's asked me a ton of questions about flipper skills and stuff. He had a he asked a pretty good first chat question which I'll send off, but he asked what shafting is. It's shhatzing, not shafting. Shafting is when you play as bad as I am. But shhatsing is where you use the ball to fire it kind of up the in lane from, you know, either a cradle or >> the very tip of the flipper. You're
    62:34
    the very tip of the flipper. You're
    62:34
    the very tip of the flipper. You're waiting until it reaches the very end and you're basically shooting the ball underneath the slingshots into uh what is usually a safe area so you could get control really fast. It's named after Neil Shhatz, a really really good player from decades ago. Maybe there's an opportunity for putting like scoops or ramps like directly to the left of the flippers that you just have to shhats into to get right. [laughter] >> And food fighters, they they had it they
    63:00
    And food fighters, they they had it they
    63:00
    And food fighters, they they had it they added standup targets. >> Yeah, stand up for it in lanes that you
    63:04
    Yeah, stand up for it in lanes that you
    63:04
    Yeah, stand up for it in lanes that you have to shots for to get and those can apply your next shot. So, it's fun to see stuff like that. >> I'll let I'll let chat answer the rest
    63:11
    I'll let I'll let chat answer the rest
    63:11
    I'll let I'll let chat answer the rest of Khan's questions, but he did ask a fairly good one. He asked he's like he forgets all the strats for all these different games. like what's some advice on how to learn a new game or a game you don't know? Like what's the best way to find and absorb the knowledge for for these kind of games? >> Yeah, there's a couple I would say a
    63:27
    Yeah, there's a couple I would say a
    63:27
    Yeah, there's a couple I would say a combination of just playing the games and and learning the rules yourself, seeing how much the game can teach you how to play it. And I mean, it's harder to do on the newer ones because there's a lot of rules you'd have to either have someone tell you about or you'd have to read up on somewhere. a good reason to go join a league like we were talking about, right? Because then you can learn from the people that are there. >> Share strategies with people. That that
    63:51
    Share strategies with people. That that
    63:51
    Share strategies with people. That that was a great thing for me when I was younger. When I was when I was at my New Jersey league, we had, you know, me and my dad would go and then Steve Bowen, who's amazing player, really great guy, and he he commentates a lot of these tournaments, but he's like an encyclopedia of rules knowledge. So we would always talk with him and share strategies and he would you know tell us good things to do on various games. It's that is I totally agree with that. >> Steve is a legendary commentator. He
    64:20
    Steve is a legendary commentator. He
    64:20
    Steve is a legendary commentator. He used to commentate on uh Papa as well. You can check him out on YouTube and Instagram. Fun with Bonus is his uh handles and stuff. Please definitely go follow him if you want to check all that stuff out. He's a legend in the pinball community just in general. Also a great rules designer. He was part of the original American Pinball kind of wave and did rules design on a lot of those games before their 15,000 logo changes. Um, >> yes, I will be at TPF for for the people
    64:47
    yes, I will be at TPF for for the people
    64:47
    yes, I will be at TPF for for the people asking. >> Speaking of Steve, yeah, before we
    64:51
    Speaking of Steve, yeah, before we
    64:51
    Speaking of Steve, yeah, before we >> No, go ahead.
    64:52
    No, go ahead.
    64:52
    No, go ahead. >> That's actually where I got my current
    64:54
    That's actually where I got my current
    64:54
    That's actually where I got my current initials from. So, my initials are SJZ and most people think may what does it stand for? But I actually got that from Steve Bout. And his initials have always been SSB. I think it stands for super Steve Bow. And so I kind of I I always just looked up to him when we would be at league and stuff. So that's I actually inspired my current initials from that. Super Jason Zer, I guess. But also, I guess you could say I'll tell people Steve Jason Zer because my dad's name is Steve. >> Okay. So it could be either. Amazing.
    65:27
    Okay. So it could be either. Amazing.
    65:27
    Okay. So it could be either. Amazing. Here we go. We found an Easter egg for where your initials uh came from. That's great. So, just to clear that up, >> there's going to be a whole wave of
    65:33
    there's going to be a whole wave of
    65:33
    there's going to be a whole wave of people that are going to be super initials now. You're going to see a lot of like s something something for the next generation of pinball players, right? [laughter] >> That' be cool.
    65:43
    That' be cool.
    65:43
    That' be cool. >> Uh, okay, chat, fire away. We'll do a
    65:45
    Uh, okay, chat, fire away. We'll do a
    65:45
    Uh, okay, chat, fire away. We'll do a little quick fire. Uh, I did notice that you don't have a whole lot of classics back there. I was just curious if I could fire like three games at you and you could pick one of these that you might add to your collection. I'm just curious which one of these you would add. You ready? Mhm. Raven. >> Raven. I don't even remember that.
    66:04
    Raven. I don't even remember that.
    66:04
    Raven. I don't even remember that. >> Oh, it's a gotle. It's got an excellent
    66:05
    Oh, it's a gotle. It's got an excellent
    66:05
    Oh, it's a gotle. It's got an excellent backlass. It's It's like Rambo but Ramba because it's it's a it's a woman holding it. >> Looks like I I probably should though,
    66:12
    Looks like I I probably should though,
    66:12
    Looks like I I probably should though, >> man. Knowing that
    66:14
    man. Knowing that
    66:14
    man. Knowing that >> it's a Trudeau game. It's got pop-up
    66:16
    it's a Trudeau game. It's got pop-up
    66:16
    it's a Trudeau game. It's got pop-up snipers on it. Anyways, so first one's Raven. Second one, it's a Raven >> again. Raven.
    66:25
    again. Raven.
    66:25
    again. Raven. >> That's correct. And
    66:28
    That's correct. And
    66:28
    That's correct. And >> I didn't know.
    66:29
    I didn't know.
    66:29
    I didn't know. The third game that I'm curious if you want to ask I I'm not done yet. What are you doing? >> Okay.
    66:35
    Okay.
    66:35
    Okay. >> Okay.
    66:37
    Okay.
    66:37
    Okay. Yes, it's Raven. >> Mhm.
    66:39
    Mhm.
    66:39
    Mhm. >> Yeah.
    66:40
    Yeah.
    66:40
    Yeah. >> Nah, I I think I just have to play it. I
    66:42
    Nah, I I think I just have to play it. I
    66:42
    Nah, I I think I just have to play it. I mean, it's not fair to judge yet.
    66:53
    Oh, I I can't hear you. I'm not sure
    66:54
    Oh, I I can't hear you. I'm not sure what happened. Ah, I see. I see. >> And I and I and I muted myself at the
    67:05
    And I and I and I muted myself at the
    67:05
    And I and I and I muted myself at the same time. [laughter] I was explaining that I I had hung up on you in terms of the uh proverbial internet hangup. Um [snorts] >> let me just see what that looks like.
    67:13
    let me just see what that looks like.
    67:13
    let me just see what that looks like. Ra. >> Oh, it's legendary and not in a good
    67:17
    Oh, it's legendary and not in a good
    67:17
    Oh, it's legendary and not in a good way. Yeah. John Trudeau, everybody's everybody's favorite pinball designer. [laughter] >> Kind of sick. That looks kind of cool.
    67:27
    Kind of sick. That looks kind of cool.
    67:27
    Kind of sick. That looks kind of cool. Somebody made a really sick uh ramp mod for it because it's got this kind of like Y diverter mod or I'm sorry, Y diverter for the ramp and it's like they built like a wooden slat like bridge out of it. So I I have recently procured a Raven and uh I I reached out to them. I want to have I want to get that mod for it. [laughter] >> I'm looking at the playfield right now
    67:46
    I'm looking at the playfield right now
    67:46
    I'm looking at the playfield right now and I will say I actually have played this and I think it was at believe it or not Pinfest maybe like 2019. So I actually do remember liking that. SO, >> WHAT?
    67:57
    WHAT?
    67:58
    WHAT? >> I'LL give you Raven.
    67:59
    I'LL give you Raven.
    67:59
    I'LL give you Raven. >> Joyous Day. Did you hear that? The the
    68:01
    Joyous Day. Did you hear that? The the
    68:01
    Joyous Day. Did you hear that? The the number one pinball player in the world just said that they would add Raven to their lineup. >> Sure.
    68:06
    Sure.
    68:06
    Sure. >> Only problem is is space for adding more
    68:09
    Only problem is is space for adding more
    68:09
    Only problem is is space for adding more games, but yeah, if we had space. Sure. >> Sure.
    68:12
    Sure.
    68:12
    Sure. >> You have a mountain back there. What's
    68:13
    You have a mountain back there. What's
    68:13
    You have a mountain back there. What's Can you What's your lineup for people that are curious what Jason Zer's pinball collection looks like? Uh, it would take a bit to run through the entire lineup, but we have like a little over 25 games in our basement, which is where I'm at right now. And we also have more in our garage. A lot of them are not set up. They're still boxed up, but >> they're folded. But yeah,
    68:35
    they're folded. But yeah,
    68:35
    they're folded. But yeah, >> they are they do take less space that
    68:37
    they are they do take less space that
    68:37
    they are they do take less space that way. Huh. [laughter] >> Yeah, we we do plan on setting up a lot
    68:41
    Yeah, we we do plan on setting up a lot
    68:41
    Yeah, we we do plan on setting up a lot of them in our garage eventually. So, we will expand our collection. >> That's fantastic. So, is are both your
    68:48
    That's fantastic. So, is are both your
    68:48
    That's fantastic. So, is are both your parents into pinball? I mean, I know you said your dad obviously is, but >> Nah, just just been my dad really. My
    68:54
    Nah, just just been my dad really. My
    68:54
    Nah, just just been my dad really. My mom maybe went to a few tournaments like scattered throughout the years, but not much. My sister's actually pretty darn good at just at playing pinball, but she just doesn't feel like competing much. And, you know, she's also she goes to college now, so that was never her priority like it was for me and my dad to compete. It's still nice to be able to have access to it even if you're not taking it, you know, as extreme. >> Like she'll she'll play games for fun
    69:21
    Like she'll she'll play games for fun
    69:21
    Like she'll she'll play games for fun when she's at home here and there. So yeah, she definitely loves it though. Uh since you have enjoyed uh Raven now that you remember it, maybe you would be interested in putting a review for it up on Pinside as I have been, you know, trying to promote people to leave very legitimate reviews that might be perfect tense for it just so that it might get a little bit more uh exposure, you know, just something to consider. No bad ideas. No bad ideas. >> Nothing about it. [laughter]
    69:48
    Nothing about it. [laughter]
    69:48
    Nothing about it. [laughter] [snorts] >> All right. Thank you so much, Jason. I
    69:51
    All right. Thank you so much, Jason. I
    69:51
    All right. Thank you so much, Jason. I really appreciate it. Um, you know, I usually at this point ask if there's anything that our guests want to like plug or say. I don't know if there's any tournaments coming up or if there's anything going on in your life that you want to share. Uh, please do. So, I mean, just going to get back to the school grind pretty soon after this break and then got some fun tournaments coming up like Fantastic. Got the the IFPA World Championship, Pinberg, a lot of fun stuff this summer. So looking forward to that because I was definitely on a hiatus from competing from like last September until basically a couple months ago, right? >> So it's fun to to get back into it
    70:30
    So it's fun to to get back into it
    70:30
    So it's fun to to get back into it >> and it's fun to watch you play, man. You
    70:31
    and it's fun to watch you play, man. You
    70:31
    and it's fun to watch you play, man. You really are just such an incredible player and it's it's it's extremely entertaining when people don't understand why watching pinball is fun. It's like just point them to to you or any of the other top 10 and it's just like Yeah. It's truly enjoyable. >> Yeah. and and and almost everyone that,
    70:48
    Yeah. and and and almost everyone that,
    70:48
    Yeah. and and and almost everyone that, you know, that was never into pinball that I I show it to, they always like it. Everyone, you know, when they come to my house and they play it, pretty much it's impossible to dislike pinball. So, >> I agree.
    71:00
    I agree.
    71:00
    I agree. >> The only the only thing is exposure that
    71:02
    The only the only thing is exposure that
    71:02
    The only the only thing is exposure that it lacks and, you know, mainstream attention. But, you know, it's it's a fun little hobby. So, I enjoy it >> and I feel like it's I feel like we're
    71:10
    and I feel like it's I feel like we're
    71:10
    and I feel like it's I feel like we're working at that because pin it seems like pinball's exposure has grown a lot in the last couple years. Certainly since COVID because people I mean no surprise there but you know >> for sure and it's and a lot of people
    71:21
    for sure and it's and a lot of people
    71:21
    for sure and it's and a lot of people are streaming it on Twitch and and various places. So yeah definitely [clears throat] agree >> all those streamers suck though
    71:28
    all those streamers suck though
    71:28
    all those streamers suck though [laughter] # selfhate >> with the exposure too. Can't forget
    71:32
    with the exposure too. Can't forget
    71:32
    with the exposure too. Can't forget about that of course right now. >> That's right. Trying
    71:36
    That's right. Trying
    71:36
    That's right. Trying >> exposure.
    71:37
    exposure.
    71:37
    exposure. >> All right. Uh we're going to do what we
    71:38
    All right. Uh we're going to do what we
    71:38
    All right. Uh we're going to do what we always do. We're going to go raid. Speaking of being a good streamer, let's go send everybody to someone else who's playing some pinball. Uh, can I get you to praise the great pyramid? >> Yes.
    71:48
    Yes.
    71:48
    Yes. >> Boom.
    71:49
    Boom.
    71:49
    Boom. >> There it is. All praise.
    71:52
    There it is. All praise.
    71:52
    There it is. All praise. >> The great god of pinball. Um, thank you
    71:55
    The great god of pinball. Um, thank you
    71:55
    The great god of pinball. Um, thank you everybody. Uh, please be sure to watch Jason Zer and root for him at all of the upcoming tournaments. And uh, yeah, go play some pinball. Have a great one. Go. [music]
    72:16
    [music]
    72:16
    [music] >> Does your life lack purpose?
    72:19
    Does your life lack purpose?
    72:19
    Does your life lack purpose? Have you wondered is there anything more? [music] Join the cult of pinball.
    72:31
    [music] The great pyramid accepts all to the cult of the great order. I am Dr. Cornelius Picostine, [music] imperturber and acolyte of the great pyramid.