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Episode 12 - Harry Potter AI Scandal with Colin Alsheimer (Kineticist, TWIP)

Nudgecast·podcast_episode·1h 31m·analyzed·Jun 27, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Detailed investigation into JJP Harry Potter AI art controversy with Kineticist's Colin Alzheimer

Summary

Nudgecast Episode 12 features Colin Alzheimer (The Kineticist) discussing the AI art controversy surrounding Jersey Jack Pinball's Harry Potter release. The episode examines evidence of AI-assisted artwork on the playfield, analyzes credibility of the analysis (particularly from anonymous community member Bumpergeist), explores accountability gaps, and questions whether Jack Danger, JJP leadership, and artist Jesper Abels understood the full extent of AI tool usage in the creation process.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack Pinball used AI filtering or upscaling tools on artwork for the Harry Potter playfield

    high confidence · Colin Alzheimer and hosts Ian Jacoby/Shane Told, based on analysis by Bumpergeist and validation from working artists in the pinball community

  • The 'derpy dragon' with duplicated eye on wrong side of face is the most obvious AI artifact on the playfield

    high confidence · Colin Alzheimer identifies this as the mascot example of the issue; also confirmed in promo materials and on actual playfield artwork

  • Ron Weasley's Quidditch uniform number was transformed from '2' on chest to a 'bow tie' on wrist, indicating AI misunderstanding of depth

    high confidence · Colin Alzheimer citing Bumpergeist's detailed comparison to original film stills

  • Jack Danger has stated 'absolutely not' to claims of AI use in the game

    high confidence · Ian Jacoby and Colin Alzheimer reference public statements by JJP's Jack Danger denying AI usage

  • Jersey Jack only provided detailed media kit ahead of launch to Pinball News/Tim Kitzrow, not to other outlets like The Kineticist

    medium confidence · Colin Alzheimer's observation based on industry practice and lack of embargo media kit for his outlet

  • Jesper Abels, the playfield artist, had not previously done a full playfield and cabinet artwork project before Harry Potter

    high confidence · Colin Alzheimer after researching Abels' background and prior work on Guns N' Roses and Godfather

  • Bumpergeist is a European graphic designer and creative professional who grew up with pinball in the 1990s and owns a pinball machine

    medium confidence · Colin Alzheimer's exchange via DM with Bumpergeist; some details withheld per source's request

  • The AI art problem is fundamentally one of execution and QA—if the work had been polished better, no one would notice or care

    medium confidence · Hosts' discussion around the 'you don't want to see the seams' principle; opinion expressed by multiple speakers

Notable Quotes

  • “I think the one place that we can as a community, really, there's a consensus that we don't want anything to do with AI in pinball, especially when it comes to artwork.”

    Ian Jacoby @ early in preamble — Frames community consensus against AI in pinball art as key context for the episode

  • “There is like four or five paragraphs of text, right? And then... And dozens of images, right? Yeah. And what I found sort of interesting as I kept tracking it is that they kept following up to the post.”

    Colin Alzheimer @ mid-discussion of Bumpergeist analysis — Highlights the scope and credibility of Bumpergeist's investigation methodology

  • “Regarding the use of visuals created by artificial intelligence, which I'll refer to as AI, I'm not interested in the ethical debate surrounding it. Instead, I'm focused on the impact it is having and will continue to have on our aesthetic culture.”

    Bumpergeist (quoted by Colin Alzheimer) @ analysis section — Sets the frame for Bumpergeist's analysis—pragmatic focus on visual impact rather than ethics

  • “The addition of artifacts and details that don't make sense is almost unavoidable... If someone were to use a popular model, the end result would be easily discernible by a trained eye.”

    Bumpergeist (quoted by Colin Alzheimer) @ technical analysis section — Explains the technical basis for identifying AI filtering tools and their telltale signatures

  • “I am angry. I am sad. I am fed up... big tech companies have such an incredible grasp on the art world right now that it's destroying everything.”

    Jesper Abels (quoted by Colin Alzheimer) @ post from March 11, 2025 — Shows potential contradiction—artist critical of AI in art, yet may have used it on Harry Potter project

  • “The failure here is that not that they used AI so that you can see the seams. Whereas if they had integrated it into their workflow a little bit better, maybe had some better QA checks at the end, then no one knows and no one cares.”

    Colin Alzheimer / hosts (discussing community sentiment) @ accountability discussion — Captures core criticism: the real problem is lack of polish and oversight, not the tool itself

Entities

Colin AlzheimerpersonIan JacobypersonShane ToldpersonBumpergeistpersonJesper AbelspersonJack DangerpersonJersey Jack Pinball

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Multiple identifiable AI artifacts (derpy dragon with duplicated eye, Ron Weasley uniform number distortion, Hogwarts Express train wheels) visible on final Harry Potter playfield artwork despite being flagged in early promo graphics

    high · Colin Alzheimer and hosts detail specific visual defects that survived QA review and appear on shipping playfield; Jason Knapp noted promo fix but final playfield retained errors

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Unclear how AI tools were integrated into Jesper Abels' workflow—whether artist initiated usage, art director JP DeWin applied it, or JJP post-process applied upscaling without artist knowledge

    medium · Colin notes difficulty determining process; Jesper Abels remains unresponsive; hosts speculate about NDA constraints; no one has publicly explained the workflow

  • ?

    industry_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball selectively provided detailed media kit only to Pinball News/Tim Kitzrow for Harry Potter launch, not to other industry outlets like The Kineticist

    medium · Colin Alzheimer's observation based on industry standard practice and his lack of embargo materials for major release

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community perception shift toward JJP due to perceived flippant or dismissive tone in responses to AI art concerns; sense that legitimate questions are being shut down rather than addressed

    high · Hosts and Colin describe responses as 'flippant,' 'not taking questions seriously,' and like 'shut up and just enjoy pinball'; hosts had to invite JJP to appear on podcast for dialogue

  • ?

    content_signal: Colin Alzheimer and The Kineticist published detailed investigative article on AI art controversy; Bumpergeist conducted extensive independent analysis with dozens of images and multiple follow-ups; content reached 7,000+ views and went viral within pinball community

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.267

0:00
Need a pinball machine? Another pinball machine? Maybe some fat accessories like a topper or a shooter rod? Yes, you do. Hit up Jeff over at Mad Pinball for the best products and service and use our promo code NudgeCast and get a free exclusive t-shirt when you buy any game. And you also get free shipping on any new in box Stern. So many great games are out right now. Go pick one up. Hit up jeff at madpinball.com and don't forget to tell them we sent you.
0:57
Hey everybody, you're listening to Nudgecast, the official podcast of Nudge Magazine. That intro music you're listening to right now is the song Needles in the Camel's Eye by the great Brian Eno, probably best known for producing a lot of David Bowie stuff, but yeah, just an absolute legend. Ahead of his time, like crazy. Dude, absolutely. So influential. I know it gets a lot of credit, you know, but I feel like more people... This is Cut nibs! Thank you for watching! I'm Ian Jacoby aka Doc Monday, the editor-in-chief and publisher of Nudge Magazine. Who you're hearing right now is my co-host Shane Told of the band Silverstein and the Lead Singer Syndrome Podcast. Shane Told Hey. Ian Jacoby What's up? Shane Told How you doing, man? It's been a little while. Ian Jacoby It has been a little while. We've had some losses personally I guess we could say. Ian Jacoby Yeah. Shane Told Yeah. Not great. Not great for me but hanging in there. C-Storm Never End be arguing and Well, that's the other thing, right? It's like as our own personal world burns, the world also burns. And actually, that's a great segue into what we're going to talk about today, which is what's at the front of everyone's mind, AI. Yeah, dude. Yeah, it's funny. I almost brought it up to you as the segue when we were talking about Brian Eno, you know, a guy that like, was making very real music, very experimental music at the time, not using any artificial intelligence at all, because it didn't exist, you know, and, but very artistic. And now, you know, here we are, in pinball fighting off the AI fuckers, you know, in a way here. It's, I mean, it is like, No, yeah, weird time with AI kind of seeping into every aspect of our lives. And I think the one place that we can as a community, really, there's a consensus that we don't want anything to do with AI in pinball, especially when it comes to artwork. Well, it feels a little off, right? Because I think sort of the joy that a lot of people take in pinball and even people who are not people who are not as familiar with the hobby, something they like And now, are you a fan of the pinball shows? Who does you think is going to be your favorite pinball show? John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Raydaypinball Podcast. Not to bias you, but we had on Colin Alzheimer of the Kineticist, you know, a great website that puts out a lot of interesting news articles. They did a breakdown of a AI art controversy with the Harry Potter JJP release. So we get to that in the interview. We don't have to go into all of that here because I think we do a really good job with Colin of kind of giving a timeline and rundown of what happens. But yeah, it felt like a needed discussion, right? Yeah, 100%. I mean, if you've been living under a rock and you don't know that the biggest game in pinball of the last decade has come out, well, it's out. Harry Potter pinball from Jersey Jack is out. And of course, couldn't just come out and everything,

  • “It felt like a series of failures... either sort of felt flippant a bit or... we're not taking this question that seriously, right? Like, shut up and just enjoy pinball.”

    Ian Jacoby @ discussing response to controversy — Criticizes JJP's perceived dismissive tone toward legitimate concerns about accountability

  • “By all other accounts, the game rips, right?... there's an amazing shooter... Eric did an awesome job with the design. The code is like really, really good already.”

    Ian Jacoby and Shane Told @ preamble and early discussion — Establishes that the episode's critique is not anti-game; acknowledges Harry Potter's quality as a game itself

    • company
    Eric (unspecified last name)person
    The Kineticistorganization
    Nudge Magazineorganization
    This Week in Pinballorganization
    Harry Potter (pinball machine)game
    Tim Kitzrowperson
    Jason Knappperson
    John Popadiukperson
    Ken (JJP marketing, unnamed last name)person
    Retro Ralphperson
    Gringottsentity
    Silversteinorganization
    Brian Hoenperson
    JP DeWinperson

    high · Colin details methodology and scope of Bumpergeist's post; hosts discuss content spread across pinball's distributed communities (Pinside, NAPS, grassroots forums)

  • ?

    personality_signal: Jesper Abels posted March 11, 2025 message expressing anger at AI's destructive impact on art and big tech's control of creative industry, creating potential contradiction with alleged AI tool usage on Harry Potter

    medium · Colin shared Abels' post where she criticizes AI in art; hosts note this complicates narrative of 'evil artist using AI deliberately' and suggests possible workflow confusion

  • ?

    design_innovation: Bumpergeist distinguished between AI generative creation and AI upscaling/filtering tools, which have existed in professional workflows for years; playfield likely used filtering rather than pure generative AI

    medium · Colin details Bumpergeist's taxonomy of AI tools and explains difference; suggests tools like Photoshop upscaling have precedent; hosts discuss whether average person knows difference

  • ?

    community_signal: Bumpergeist established credibility through detailed technical analysis validated by other working artists in pinball community; community artists confirmed AI tool usage likely

    high · Colin confirms he spoke with other pinball artists who validated Bumpergeist's claims; hosts note this significantly bolstered credibility despite Bumpergeist remaining anonymous

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball had positive relationship with Nudge Magazine (past ad purchase, $2,000 investment in quality content) but did not extend media courtesy or dialogue opportunity for major launch controversy

    medium · Ian Jacoby details past positive relationship with JJP's Ken; notes they were not included in media kit; they proactively reached out to JJP and invited dialogue but JJP did not respond

  • ?

    product_strategy: Harry Potter positioned as flagship/prestige release likely benefiting from IP value and FOMO despite artwork quality issues; pinball fans' deep knowledge of source material makes artifacts more visible than typical release

    medium · Hosts note Harry Potter fans have watched movies multiple times and know property intimately; this makes QA failures more egregious; hosts wonder how such obvious errors passed review on high-profile release

    • 5:44
    no controversy, everything perfect. Of course, we've got this major AI controversy, which, Which, yes, we're going to get into deeply with Colin. And you know, it's funny because by all other accounts, the game rips, right? Yeah, I've heard that as well. Yeah, I don't think I want to make people clear that we're not here to like shit on this new game. You know, no, there's controversy. Obviously, we get into a little bit about the JK Rowling political stance and all that as well. A little bit. But from all accounts, it's an amazing shooter. Eric did an awesome job with the design. The code is like really, really good already. There's a lot of things to really like here. And I think that we want to be clear about that, that we're not just ripping this game apart, and not saying that there's nothing redeeming about it. I think the deeper conversation is about AI and artwork, and how troubled we are, I think, Failik Sangan, Mark Star, начал in Mish Zhen' Bta rooted by Seeing naire
    7:00
    The Kind Delicato of Power Ch elk seren- gentle We Tr le Up Kids 史 V ob cent or pro g s bank restaurant r k d out at Whatever I do is I tool real thing for b 參 All de will be so fix s tan b in this you know i'm like that asshole in high school who is wearing the like not my president george w bush sure so like of course like i'm an asshole on this one i'm gonna be like huh we can't ask questions like well yeah ok well so yeah that that that part felt the worst and and you're right dude like i've look i have a great relationship with JJP historically ken was awesome to us who used to be in charge of their marketing he bought a full-page back-back page ad and We're going to be doing a little bit of a nudge, two or three. It's one of my favorite advertisements and let's give them credit for that. They hired us. They gave us $2,000. I'll say that on the air. They gave us $2,000 and what they got back was film photos, great graphic design from Brian Moen, a human, and I wrote all the copy. And I think it was just like this beautiful piece of art that is one of my favorite things that we've ever produced. So we know they're capable of it, right? Like we know they're capable of making the right decision. And so part of this is just, I don't even want to make it sound self-righteous, like it's accountability, but I think we did want to just like explore, you know, this topic because like you said, it's close to all of us. And you know, for journalistic integrity here as well, we did reach out to JJP and let them know that we were going to have this conversation and invited them to have a representative Go to www.na livelypodcast.com and show your concerns. So JJP, if you're listening right now, if anyone over there is listening or even any artist want to talk, we would love to continue this conversation, I think. And Shane and I are... Shane, you're a nicer guy than I am, so I think you'd be coming into a friendly environment. We're not looking to come in here and dunk on you and score points and stuff like that. So, yeah. But I mean, let's get into it, right? You've heard enough of us giving you the preamble. Yeah, this is a great talk with Colin. It was fun getting the chance to talk to him and he did some really good reportage on this story. Colin's the best. Obviously, most people know the kineticist. If you don't, well, he explains that. So let's get into it, I guess. Here it is. Our conversation all about Harry Potter AI with Colin, the kineticist.
    10:08
    All right, guys, a little bit of a different episode this week, where normally we just feature people from the pinball community in different walks of life. This week, we're actually going to be exploring a specific story that I'm sure several of you are familiar with, but maybe some people are not. And for that, I wanted to turn to one of my better friends in the hobby and also one of the most journalistic people in pinball, I would say. Yes, it's very kind. And of course, we are talking about Colin Alzheimer from The Kineticist. Colin, thanks so much for being here. Yeah. Hey, Colin. Thanks for having me. I'm very excited to be here. That is quite the intro, very flattering and vaguely embarrassing at the same time, so it's fun. Maybe we can talk a little bit about... So for those who aren't familiar, what kind of is the Kinetisys? What's your role in pinball? Yeah, so I am the founder and editor of Kinetisys. We launched it in like 2022 and then somewhere along the way we picked up This Week in Pinball too. So I'm kind of the jack of all trades for the site. I build it, I code it, I design it. I do, you know, most of the writing alongside some contributors.
    11:39
    And I guess really the the core of the project is just exploring different avenues of the hobby that sort of I and other people find interesting. And so before we get too far into the this specific story that we're going to talk about, this isn't like your first foray into sort of journalistic content. You guys have covered other things in the past as well. Do you have a background in journalism? I guess I'm not even... I have no background in journalism. Okay. No, no, no, like, no, like, formal, formal background, I guess. Like, my degree is kind of a mix in film and photography and marketing communications. Sure. So that's primarily what my background is in. Throughout my career, I've always done a little bit of, like, journalistic work. So I did a similar project early on in my career for like a, it was like a happy hour and nightlife website in Dallas called Five O'Clock Dallas and we'd cover like the local bar scene pretty much. And that transitioned into a kind of an indie music blog for a few years covering the Dallas-Fort Worth scene and some national acts that would come through. So that moved into some like craft beer stuff that I did again with like a digital alt in Dallas where I did like a weekly craft beer review column and I sort of pivoted that into pinball. Right on. Yeah. And something that I really dig about your content is it's not as much kind of we talked about nudge stuff is very personality driven. Kevin Sid awkwardast Gillian емуınıcves courp irather in Service John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Raydaypinball Podcast.
    14:06
    If you know me and you're good at reading between the lines of certain things, you can pick up on a thing or two. But it's not overt. No, and an opinion is just going to happen when you sort of insert yourself into a piece. But I think also it's never grandstanding. It's you're not ever sort of inserting yourself into a story to pump yourself up or pump your numbers up. So, yeah, I mean, usually I try. I don't want to be the story. $1. дальше M Ella Khanna, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Raydaypinball Podcast.
    15:32
    So, people have some baggage with JK Rowling these days because of, you know, anti-trans sort of statements and things like that. There was already that element to it and I think we kind of all felt, no one was surprised that Harry Potter was being released. It was sort of rumored for a long time. But yeah, I guess maybe if we can go through the timeline of this with you, Colin, I think that'll make a lot of sense. So JJP announces this release. It's a bit controversial, but people are pumped about it, right? Especially the art- People are very pumped. They're really excited. And especially about the art part of it, right? Like JJP really leaned into that. They got, is it MinaLima or MinaLima? MinaLima, yeah. MinaLima, I think. Yeah, MinaLima for the CE. And they had done like awesome Harry Potter art back in the day and they were coming back and they did the artwork for the cabinet. And then people started to kind of see some of the playfield art, some questions that kind of started to form, which ultimately on June 15th sort of culminates in this person Bumpergeist. And so what kind of happened on that day? Yeah. So, I mean, I think it was interesting with the artwork. I think the initial reaction, because I think the first sort of major images that got out there were of that CE cabinet art, which I think was probably not what people were, what people had in their heads when they envisioned like a Harry Potter pinball machine. Like, I think most people envisioned what ultimately became the arcade and the wizard edition art packages that was more movie based, where this was more sort of thematically I think the most important thing is that the book is more appropriate for the aesthetic of the books than the movies, right? So there was some pushback about that, but I think once people sort of better understood the reasoning behind it or the story or the creative individuals involved, they seemed like they appreciated it more. I didn't honestly see much pushback about the Playfield artwork or the rest of the art packages really until this Bumper Geist analysis dropped. I think it was pretty much fine, you know, just another pretty good pinball release up until that time. I think that's fair actually. Like, looking back on it, there wasn't like any sort of... people weren't... they didn't have any inherent problems with the Playfield art. But then yes, so right and and this doesn't happen all at once so on June 15th Bumpergeist posts to something called tilt forums and so like first of all what the fuck is a tilt forum I've not as a pinball enthusiast I don't even know what this is. Yeah so it's a it's a pretty obscure forum community it's it's one that I've been on almost since I got into the hobby originally I think I joined in like 2019 I think the site's been around for about nine years or so. So it's actually got some, or at least at one point it had some pretty heavy hitter names and pinball involved with it. Like if you look at the about page, they still have Kiefer, Kevin Johnson, coder for JJP listed as one of the moderators, for example. I think it was kind of an outgrowth of like recgames.pinball, the Usenet group, which Kiefer was also heavily involved in from like day one. Um, uh, alongside, uh, uh, a lot of the, the sort of tournament and competitive pinball crowds. So if you look at, at what people talk about on there, it's mostly about tournaments and rules and like how to play games and like how to stream pinball, that, that kind of stuff. So, um, it, it hasn't been like a super relevant or topical, like a, like a pin side or, or some of the, the blogs or podcasts out there, but it's got a pretty dedicated, uh, loyal We're all following, I'd say. It sort of starts and ends, it sounds like, with relatively positive content. Like there isn't a lot of controversial things. There's not really a lot of drama at all. It's more like some of the Discord groups that are out there than like Pinside. I was going to say, yeah, it doesn't really remind me too much of Pinside. It seems like it's a bit more subdued, but also I think Bumpergeist at the beginning of their post, right, they say there's a reason why they posted on Tilt Forums, which they They were hoping to get eyeballs on this post and they felt like some of the other avenues might not have that. And so maybe let's get into that post. So what is it? What are they saying? Kind of what are the... We don't even have to say accusations, but I mean the evidence that they present is interesting. Yeah, it was pretty interesting. I think the user bumper guys, I believe when you sign up for a new account on Pinside, there are some restrictions in terms of what you can post until you go through some sort of verification process by, I think, buying a membership or getting someone else in the community to vouch for you. So this particular user, I think it was important that they stayed relatively anonymous. Exactly, yeah. So they couldn't really do that. Because you have to figure that this person already has a Pinside account, right? They just don't want to post under their own name. So that's the whole thing is that this is somebody that's probably in the industry. We'll get to that. Yeah. So there's a whole preamble to the post sort of explaining the person's background, where they come from. There's sort of reasoning for creating the post in the first place. But the most interesting parts are when they start doing more of like a pretty detailed That's the sort of, what I call photo analysis of the artwork assets from Harry Potter, and sort of making the case for why they think a lot of it is either completely generated by generative AI tools, or those tools were at least a major component of the process that the artist used in creating the artwork. And, you know, some of the points are certainly stronger than than others.
    22:03
    But well, the way he writes, it's very he's very fucking funny. Let's be honest. Like, he's hilarious. I don think I don think English is there I saying I saying I don I don know that it a he I assume it a he But English is not their first language So yeah it pretty well done It's I like though that there are certain ones that are like, oh boy, like this is really insane. And other ones that are just like, this is really funny. So I'm going to throw that in there too. It's a great mix. But it's important to note that this is not a small post. This is like a big post and many and it goes on and on and on. There's not just like one little graphic of a few examples. There is like... It's like four or five paragraphs of text, right? And then... And dozens of images, right? Yeah. And what I found sort of interesting as I kept tracking it is that they kept following up to the post. Like it wasn't just sort of like, here's all of my evidence, have at it. It's like they posted what they had initially and then they kept sort of revisiting the artwork and kind of adding more to it and further building the case as people reacted Well, and the thing got legs, right? I mean, it went, it started out with just a few people seeing it was when you saw it, Colin. And then I think last I checked, it was like 7000 people had viewed this. Yeah, I mean, so like, I have a pretty big career or a long history in marketing, right. And so one of the things that is interesting to me is just sort of seeing how content spreads, And how it sort of goes viral, particularly in pinball communities, which are pretty, it's pretty spread out. Like there are, there are some like power centers in there, like a, like a, like a pin side or a, a NAPS arcade, for example. But there's a lot of like sort of fringe, more grassroots groups where, where things can sort of bubble up out from and, and, and sort of get those, David Van Es, Pinball Machine, Knapp Arcade, Raydaypinball Podcast, Zach Meny, Dennis Kriesel, Beatbox, Kanyo Klyce, Raydaypinball Podcast, Kanyo Klyce, Kanyo Klyce, Radio This is not the exact beginning of it, but maybe the beginning of their reason why they're doing this. This poster, Bumpergeist says, Regarding the use of visuals created by artificial intelligence, which I'll refer to as AI, I'm not interested in the ethical debate surrounding it. Instead, I'm focused on the impact it is having and will continue to have on our aesthetic culture. The price is not a determining factor for good or bad visuals. A $200 painting can be more aesthetically valued than a $100,000 one. And then they go on to explain the difference between whether it would be generated AI or what we'll call an AI filter. The primary goal of a filter is to give existing photos a less photo-real appearance and to upscale them. Well, you could see how something like this would potentially be used on a pinball playfield, right? We're going to be using a lot of photography or like film stills and we'll need to sort of upscale them and put them on a playfield. So that could track and those are tools that have existed for a very long time. And Bumper Geist goes on to say, they say, it removes grain, it unifies colors. Unfortunately, when an image goes through this filter, they don't always come out intact. The addition of artifacts and details that don't make sense is almost unavoidable. Images that pass through these filters will have a very distinctive look due to the model's use. If some were to use a popular model, the end result would be easily discernible by a trained eye. There's a little bit more to it that they go into, but I thought it would be sort of good for us. This is going to be hard, right? Because this is an audio medium. But Colin, I guess I just like maybe you could talk a little bit about some of the biggest offenders that people have sort of run with. There are a couple of these that are almost undeniably AI in some way. Right. What was the kind of most compelling pieces of evidence that you saw? Yeah, so I mean the the big one that I think is sort of becoming kind of the I guess the mascot for this for this issue is is what people are referring to is the derpy dragon, which is if you haven't seen the photo, it's a it's a drawing of a dragon from Harry Potter. I don't, I'm not an expert in Harry Potter lore, but I think it's the one that guards the Gringotts vault or something like that. And anyway, it's, it's, it's pretty clear that, that, um, in the photo there's, uh, the dragon has like one eye where it probably would be normally. And then another eye that looks the same copied on the side of its face and its neck is all sort of, um, distorted and, and kind of funky looking. It doesn't have teeth on one side of its mouth. So that is probably like the most obvious example where you can look at it like, oh, something is not right here. But one of the other big ones is a picture of Ron Weasley playing Quidditch. He's on his broom. The art, the bumper guys who did the analysis was sort of able to find the original film still that was probably used when creating the version that the artist did for the playfield artwork. And he points out some some weird kind of detail artifacts that don't really make sense in context of the original photograph. But the big one is Ron Weasley's uniform number, which is which is two. If you look at other stills, it's pretty clearly on the chest of his uniform, it's a number two, but the AI sort of changed it into almost like a bow tie coming off of his wrist. Oh yeah. Which is definitely something that an AI would do if you have any experience with things like that. Because it's sort of seeing the depth wrong, essentially, on that thing. Yeah, it doesn't know what it is, really. Tim Kitzrow –
    29:12
    Keneallyioo John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Kanyo Klyce, Raydaypinball Podcast. The depiction of the, uh, the Hogwarts Express train. Oh yeah. Which, uh, it's just, it's just filled with, with stuff. It's just weird. Like, um, it has wheels on it. Like, yeah, the, the train wheels, they look, they sort of look like car tires because they're, they're thick, like a car tire. Um, and, and you can sort of see how they, how they are on top of the, the train track. Like there's, there's like way too wide for the track. There's some overlap where it looks like the train wheel car tire thing is sort of drooping over the train track itself instead of being on it. There's some other sort of odd artifacts where there's like curved windows and regular windows or like just really weird geometry to the way the object is constructed. Rob Incott, Chief shiny coses heed of way over at miningçonicas.com giving the��ейм he's mark delgast So who are they? Is their info credible? I'm not asking you to dox them or anything, but give us sort of your impression of like in general who they are. Are they a graphic designer? I guess they kind of say, but... Yeah, they're a graphic designer, a creative professional. They grew up with pinball in the 90s. They're European. They keep up with new releases. The sort of interesting detail to me was that they made it a point to say that they have a pinball machine in their house, but they can't tell me what machine it is. Which is like, hmm, okay, maybe you're in the industry. Oh, right, so it's like they have an ABBA, one of the few ABBA machines or something. Yeah, like a prototype game or, you know, maybe they're a homebrew designer and they just don't want people to know what their title is. Like, it could be a lot of things, but that sort of tipped me off a little bit. Did you talk to them a lot? Like, was this like one nice one text conversation? It was. Like, how in depth did you go? A little bit of an exchange, basically through DM on the site where, you know, I asked if they would be open to talking about this. I sent them sort of a bunch of sort of pointed and probing questions to sort of better understand their background and like, you know, are they a pinball fan? Do they like Harry Potter? Like just sort of like basic stuff to see if they had credibility. And the answers they provided were, you know, pretty detailed. A lot of them made their way directly into the article I wrote. And, you know, I read a lot of stuff online, have a lot of conversations. So I feel like my bullshit detector is usually pretty good, even if I can't always articulate it. Like, I know the sense when someone is right or if they're messing with me or not completely there. And I'm sure if this person were like, I don't know, cross-examined in a court, right, some I'm going to hit the link to the link to the podcast in the description, and I'll see you next time. Thanks for watching. Bye. I'm out. Bye. This is the original. Yeah, this is exactly this is what it looked like in Harry Potter in the movies. And like, you know, and then just asking what the fuck is pretty much what Yeah, what it was. And, you know, I don't know that much about AI really, like I've, I've went on chat GPT and I've like messed around for like stupid shit for my own like, fucking jollies, you know, but I, I'm not an artist in that way to know like, there's a part where it's like, oh, typical AI clouds. It's like, I don't know. I don't know if those are typical AI clouds or not, but like I'm sure a lot of graphic designers would be on there saying, what do you mean typical? Like if they weren't, you know what I mean? I think that there is a lot of, um, it still holds a lot of weight. Even those little things that, you know, normal, let's just say normal non graphic design people like us, um, don't understand that are there that are still, I think important. That was the other thing that I thought started to give Bumpergeist a lot more credibility, was that other people with background in graphic design or the arts or with more experience with AI validated a lot of the things that he said. And I even went and talked with a few other working artists in the pinball community to kind of get their opinion about whether or not they thought AI was in use here and sort of their general thoughts on generative AI in this space. And they all pretty much confirmed that, yeah, it looks like some sort of AI tool or filter set or something was in use. So let's get down to the real important discussion, which I guess is the accountability of all this, right? Because we're all three of us are pretty sure some AI was used in the making of this game. Maybe a lot of AI was used in the making of this game. Jack himself has come out and said, absolutely not. The artist, the artistic team has have seemed to be very quiet on the subject. Where does this all land? I think the biggest thing was I think Jason Knapp posted the first point you made, the dragon with the two eyes on one side, and then posted that there was a promo graphic sent out where that was fixed.
    36:44
    And I looked today because I was wondering, I looked, I went to the Jersey Jack website and I looked at the playfield and that if you zoom in on that playfield, that dragon is still the two eyes on the side. bags beautiful 0090
    37:00
    away final symbol of Credit This is pretty egregious, would you not agree with me, Colin? Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I've been following some of that too. So, in Jason's post, he sort of talks about how he normally gets marketing assets for games, particularly from Jersey Jack, which is normally they will send out a pretty detailed media kit, typically under embargo, Just to help outlets like mine, like his, like Pinball News, sort of get ahead of these launches and kind of put their best foot forward with the Jersey Jack product, right?
    37:58
    For this release, as far as I can tell, just based on observation, I think the only outlet that got an actual media kit ahead of time was Pinball News slash Tim Kitzrow, Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
    38:39
    It's possible he doesn't know. It's possible that, you know, his definition of what AI is is narrower than others. Like, he could think that, you know, it wasn't like a chat GPT that was used. Right. Like, someone wasn't doing a prompt like, you know, show me a Harry Potter playfield, and that's what they spit out onto the field. It's probably a lot more complex and nuanced than that. Right, they weren't, no one was just turning in like a mid-journey image and saying like this is our, this is our thing. Um, and that, and that's actually even, I kind of want to get into that because Shane, you're absolutely right, like Woodjack and the rest of the team even understand that they're using AI. But also I want to talk a little bit about just what we mean by using AI or like where is it okay and where is it not? So the artist who created the Playfield, right, is Jesper Abels, is that their name? I think it's Jesper. Jesper Abels. What's their... so do they have a background in like this kind of stuff? It was hard for me looking at their page to understand maybe... some things look like they could have been, you know, AI. They're definitely digital art pieces. You know, they're really into NFTs and all that. But what did you kind of find out about their background? Yeah, they're they're a little bit mysterious. And I have reached out a few times to try to have a direct dialog with with the Esper. I haven't gotten a response. I followed up today as well on the off chance that we could get something before this podcast. But but no such luck. Yeah, there's there's not a ton of information about them online. Um, mostly their, their, their background seems to be in creating, um, digital art, digital paintings. Um, they have some experience, um, working for JJP and in pinball before, mostly through, uh, John Paul DeWin's, um, design agency in the Netherlands, I believe is where he's based out of. But like they helped out on the art package for Guns N' Roses. They did some work on Godfather. But this is the yeah, not not Avatar. Oh, not okay. Yeah. Which, yeah.
    41:10
    And this is the first time that they've done full play field and cabinet artwork. Sure. Seemingly under John Paul DeWin's direction. And so they're not totally new to the industry, but they are new to like having to do this sort of work. It seems it seems like a style that they don't do regularly, I would say. I would agree with that, especially look looking at some of their other art pieces are very like abstract, super cool. Actually, there are some really interesting sort of geometric patterns and spirals and things like that. But that seems to be the thrust of their art. And you actually sent us this morning, Colin, a really interesting post you found that they had from March 11, 2025.
    42:00
    I want to read just a little bit of this because it's actually evidence of the other side, is why you sent it, that perhaps that this person isn't as Pro AI as we're projecting onto them. Here's how it starts. It says, I am angry. I am sad. I am fed up. Hell yeah, bro. The reason why is probably the same reason why your other favorite visual artist is very frustrated at the moment. I'm willing to bet that every artist right now that is trying to do something meaningful is struggling with this, but only a select few people are trying to address the problem. What I'm trying to address here is that big tech companies have such an incredible grasp on the art world right now that it's destroying everything. It's incredibly destructive because big tech companies stimulate artists to reduce their art into a commodity, into something that is just going to simply grab your attention span and then grab your attention span for a little more and then a little more and then a little more, and I don't think that's what art is about. And they kind of go off into what they feel art to be. I thought that was really interesting though just in light of all this because I am someone who is just willing to, right? I'm a knee-jerk guy, I'm willing to say that. And so for me, I'm like, this guy thought he was getting away with something, right? But when- And that's how he's being painted by a lot of the commentary in the industry like, oh, this evil artist used a bunch of generative AI and, you know, pulled the wool over JJP and everyone in the community where maybe that's not the case. I don't have enough information to say for sure. It's hard to know the process, right? Exactly. How this happens. Like, I don't know how it was laid out, if it was sketched out, if this guy did that part of it. Yeah. And then it went to, is it JP DeWin that works for JJP? Could it have been him that kind of put it into that, used AI to put that all together for however they do their playfield and their cabinet graphics? Like, it's hard to know the process and until somebody comes forward and says it, but clearly it seems like, you know, Jesper doesn't want to talk to you, maybe because he doesn't want any blowback, whether it's on him or not on him. Yeah, you know, I assume he's under an NDA of some sort and can't talk to me. But that actually very yes I would almost But it very hard to know exactly what this process is And then also the big thing too is where does the studio come in and the IP and how I'm amazed that this got through approvals. Right? Yeah. Even like AI or not, right? If you take that out of the equation, what some people are saying, which I think I agree Tim Kitzrow, Hasselback, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Raydaypinball Podcast. Tim Kitzrow, The
    45:53
    그러니 Tim Kitzrow has some stuff going on there and Thusa Wibiglee has some things going on there earlier today why it's the only way for that to happen rather I was slow to acknowledge as fair and of course Lisa Carpenter has a special tagline for us who get to ring my staff갔 then then利은 K Bead store 365 Wright Optimją palhui a fan and you're ready to kiss the 했 but I was the first this morning even though everyone's already old so yeah many and so for some reason to follow up after this it's gonna take a little I'm going to look at this with a like, like everyone's going to zoom in on this playfield. Everyone's going to look at every detail. People do that every release. Yeah, anyway. Every pinball machine. Totally. And then when you talk about something like Harry Potter, it's even more so, you know, like all the Harry Potter people are going to be like, oh, I want to see every little detail of this. And like those people have watched how many movies are there? Eight movies? I haven't seen them all. Like people have seen those movies so many times over and over again. They know it inside and out. It's like crazy you think you know someone thinks they could they could pull the wool over their eyes and I don't know if someone like you know think of like Eric you know obviously he's so passionate about this this property and this game this is like you know his like this could be his life's work you know. Speaker 05-3 Speaker 1-A-7 So, you've been involved in some level of producing creative work, professionally or not. Like, you know, you've worked for agencies, I've worked for agencies, so like, when you produce work like that, don't you go over it like a fine-tooth comb? Don't you look at the details, right? Like, how can you not? I mean, sometimes, like, I'm a musician, right? And there'll be times when something will get sent to me. Like, it's actually recently, it was, and it was just this like social media bullshit. We were just like promoting some merch and literally merch was spelled wrong. Yeah. Like it was mech. That's pretty bad. Like Silverstein mech, M-E-C-H. And like I, I, it came across my desk real quick. I looked at it and went, okay, yeah, sure. It's all look good. Like you're looking at all the details and you don't see the main, like one of the main words, right? And it actually was, was, was live for like 20 minutes before I realized and was like, oh fuck. We, you know, I think everybody that works in this understands that those kinds of things can happen, but to this extent? Yeah, it's like... On this project? It's a series of failures is kind of why it feels gross, and I think part of it is like, the response has been either sort of felt flippant a bit or... Yeah. Or like, we're not taking this question that seriously, right? Like, shut up and just enjoy pinball. Like, those are kind of, I've had talks with a lot of people in the industry, including, well, people in pinball media recently, like me and Retro Ralph had a, we kind of hashed it out a little bit contentiously over text message and his thing was basically like, look, this is coming one way or the other. k0ptrkn lemar
    50:20
    I think his thing was more that it's amazing that you guys are getting me to defend Retro Ralph when I was the pissy one who called him a dumbass. But he works in tech, and one of his things was sort of even what we've already talked about. These tools have existed for a long time, some of the things we're calling AI have existed for a decade or more in Photoshop. And so, uh, yeah, I guess that they're thinking, and my guys, actually, I thought they had a comment that was that was pretty insightful. In wasn't the original, I think was in my in my interview, but where they talked about how basically, you don't want to know how the how the illusion works, right? If it's done, well, you don't want to see the seams of the work. And I think that's That's the failure here is that not that they used AI so that you can see the seams. Word. Whereas if they had integrated it into their workflow a little bit better, maybe had some better QA checks at the end, then no one knows and no one cares, honestly. And ultimately that's a human hand making those corrections and so I think people would have less of a problem with it in that way as well. Colin, has this release been hurt by this article or does it feel kind of like a bunch of talk and nothing is actually happening? I think that Harry Potter is such a juggernaut of an IP in this community that
    51:57
    JJP is probably feeling some effects from this controversy and from the JKR stuff. But in aggregate, it's probably a bump in the road for this game, I would say. Yeah, I think that's probably true. It'll be interesting to see because it feels a bit like Death by a Thousand Cuts, right? Like there was already the people of our generation, right? The three of us here are a little bit younger for pinball. All of these are pinball games, and I just know anecdotally from people contacting me for Nudge and seeing people's posts that they were quite upset, rightly or wrongly. I personally don't... I will play this game. I'm sure I will. Same. Yeah. So if people are looking for me to take that kind of stand on it, I won't, but I just know that that contingent is out there. It's loud, it's vocal. Yeah. And then now you're getting all these anti-AI people like me, these loud obnoxious bastards, talking about this part of it as well. And I just know this is a game that JJP needs to be a hit, right? This is what they're gambling on. So I guess we'll see. We'll see it play out. I can't imagine that having... they gotta fix the art, right? Do we see that happening? Chris That's a really hard problem. Yeah, word. Well, maybe you have the original ones that have the AI on it, those are instantly worth a bajillion dollars because they have all the... It's like when you get a penny that has like a weird like lump on it or something, it's like it's worth a bunch of money, and that would that would make all the Kaneda people happy, and then everyone else could just have like normal looking play fields that aren't as expensive? I don't know. So the thing that I think is like when I first saw the game on release, I didn't think anything of the artwork. Like it didn't connect with me aesthetically. But in sort of going back to it after seeing the AI and now I can't I can't unsee this this product anymore for kind of what it is like. It's just this sort of muddy, generated mess on the playfield. And what will be interesting is I wonder if, you know, in 10 years, if this game is going to feel like the sort of Photoshop era. Interesting. Pinball, where it's just not going to age very well. Kind of like that you're saying, kind of like early 2000s, like the Wheel of Fortune almost. Yeah, or like the Lord of the Rings or CSI, the sort of style that people didn't like enough to give rise to people like Franchi and Zombie Yeti. Right. Yeah. Right. That's really interesting. Well, Shane, you're like a huge pinball buyer at this point. You buy more games than almost anyone I know. I don't know about that. No, for real though, like it's cool. Like I think that's awesome. Are you going to buy a Harry Potter? I decided I'm not going to buy any games I play it. Well, that's going to be like my new my new thing. The only exception I made was for Metallica remastered because getting an Ellie was so hard. I managed to get one and also I played Metallica a million times. So I know it's a good game and I love Metallica. But I decided like, you know, I thought about, oh, do I need to go go in on a King Kong or whatever? It's like I'm just always going to play the game. So I haven't got a chance to play Harry Potter if I absolutely love the game. I would consider buying it, but I think now, I don't know if I would. I think it's like all this stuff is compounding now to me, where like I already wasn't stoked on the JK Rowling stuff, now the AI artwork, and it's just, it's like, I don't need that many reasons to talk myself out of spending $12,000 to $15,000. You know, that's and that's true. Like for me to drop that kind of money on a brand new in box game, it's got to be like I've got to like wake up in the middle of the night being like, I need this game. That's where I need to be at to to buy to buy a new pinball machine. At this point, the idea of FOMO, like I remember, like I bought a Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It's my favorite horror movie. And I bought that like released the day it was dropped because I was like, well, I might not get one. You know what I mean? And I probably won't find that on location because a lot of places out here don't have spooky games, etc. So there has to be a reason. And with Harry Potter, I really just don't feel a reason to buy this game. And I know it's going to be everywhere. You know, it's it's so so that's I know there's a lot there to unpack, but I can't be alone when when I, you know, come up with those reasons. So yeah, word. No, I don't think so at all. I think that's really what like what you said is common sense. And I think it also just like I love you bring up the fact that Spooky for the fact of like Spooky had a banger release this year with none of that controversy. You know what I mean? Like the gap has closed like it used to be Stern way up top and then JJP obviously like three quarters of the way there and then everyone else, you know, maybe a quarter of the way there. And now I feel like, you know, either Spooky is right there or has really surpassed, at least in the eyes of, I think, pinball collectors, you know, like in terms of quality, in terms of artwork and all this stuff. And so I think this actually really matters, you know, for JJP more than anybody. So, well, yeah, I mean, I mean, Spooky hired they hired the guy when we're talking about artwork. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Raydaypinball Podcast.
    58:26
    We all look at them, but now there's a whole bunch of people in the mix. So I think it makes it a little tougher, you know, with, with figuring it out. Yeah, that's really, that's really interesting, Shane. And I think you had brought up, and I think we can talk about this is sort of the wider implications of what this means, both for pinball and art in general. You know, Shane, you're an artist. Jim Yearsley, Max Haber,
    58:57
    moisturizing clothes legislator, lindsay koltz Jr., plats anyway, Todd Huds, Lindsey Drexler, Susan H. Avec Me Enri Different I'm a hard no for me, man. Colin, do you agree with that? Yeah, I would agree. I mean, I'm right there with you. I don't think, and part of the thing was, like, in my discussions with Ralph, he had pointed out a couple other places where potentially AI art had already been used in pinball. We can say this, this may not be the first time that this has happened. We know American potentially had some AI art on Barry O's Barbecue Challenge, and then also in Dungeons and Dragons there were potentially some AI elements. But did any of those companies make it a point to call out their hand-drawn artwork as a major selling point of their game? No, they didn't. That's one of the big issues to me. Yeah, and did anyone call them out and they said no AI was used? Like, I don't, you know, there's a lot to it. You know, I think, I think for me, if we're getting to what's okay for AI, I think like, if I'm scrolling through Instagram and I see like an ad or something and it obviously uses AI, I'm not that upset about it. Word. You know, like something disposable. Sure. Like digital, whatever, disposable art, promotional graphics, like I don't like it. I think that they should be using their in-house, either their in-house art team to do that or hiring an artist because I think that that's... Photographers, yeah. Yeah, I think that that's like what there is the right thing to do, but I'm not going to get mad about it. But when you're talking about printed forever artwork on a machine, come on, it's got to be... And that you're paying a premium price for. That is insane. Yeah. To me anyway. Well, I know these are small teams, but... My general thoughts on it are this, and I know probably people who are listening to this have maybe heard me talk about this before, but I've come to this reasoning after a lot of wrestling with this idea because I've both used AI and not used it on different creative projects. But I think the fundamental misunderstanding of people who use AI art, like when we talk I'm going to talk about Jersey Jack, maybe not even realizing that it was used in this way, is because they're money men and that's cool and they're engineers but they do not understand art. Art is not a commodity. Art is not the content that comes out at the end. Art is a process, right? Shane, you experience life. You experience heartbreak, you experience love, you experience death, all these things that happen to you and inside of you there's this magic thing that happens and out barfs awesome songs, right? For me, out barfs cool photography and fun articles or whatever. But the process is the important part, right? It's as much about the things that we don't do as the things that we do. When you write a song, Shane, right, the first draft of the song is not the same as the last draft, right? Of 100%. You rewrite, right? You take things away and then you add something and then you take it away and you see what works and it's the exact same thing for me. I wish people could see as many typos and things like that as are in nudge articles. I wish sometimes that people could see them early on because they'd be like, oh man, they weren't funny. They didn't have any sort of perspective.
    62:58
    But those are the things that you only get being a craftsman and understanding choices. And so whether or not you actually can do the thing like people are like, well, AI can is a great tool because you won't have to like back in the day, right? We would have to draw every single feather on the thing and it would take so long. And now AI can do that. Great. Right. I'm not even shitting on that, but maybe what we need to think about as a society, right, as like, well, we need to give people, you need to earn a license, the way that you have like a car, like a driver's license. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Kanyo Klyce, Raydaypinball Podcast. Like it's art, right? And you need the craftsman there, you need the Zombiettis, you need the Christopher Franchise. Like, whether you agree with their aesthetics or not, you have to say that they have them. You have to say that every choice they're making is filtering through these aesthetics. And so I think sometimes my problem with AI is like if it's the AI aesthetic, then you lost, right? And this is something where it was very obviously like this is AI aesthetic. Colin, like you said, it's just going to, I think it's going to age quite poorly. And, you know, I don't think AI is going anywhere. So at the very least, we're going to have to put in some guardrails about it. Like us as consumers, what we accept and what we don't accept. So that's my AI Iran. That's a very Jerry Springer final thought there a little bit. I liked it. I think I agree with almost all that you're saying, Ian, and there's a lot there. I don't know. I mean, I think the bottom line is that we're upset as pinball people, both in the industry and as people that just love pinball. And whether you're buying games or you're playing games, I don't think it really matters. You're still you know, you're still a consumer. And I think that we shouldn't stand for this. I just don't think we should. I think we should really make a point. And I think maybe this won't get fixed. Maybe JJP won't fix it. They won't comment on it, whatever. But you're damn right. They're going to think about this the next time. Or at least other manufacturers should learn from this. I think everybody should, which is why I think we're doing, by doing this podcast, we're doing a good service here. I think putting this out and what you've done, Colin, like putting a spotlight on this, is really important for the growth of our hobby. We don't want this to become commonplace. Yeah, the transparency is super important. Colin, just to shout you out one last time, I mean, there's a great last line of this Tim Kitzrow Loser Kid Pinball Podcast No I mean I think we covered most of the details And you know if you like the work that we up to you know check out Kaneda Josh Matlock Doug K trees Drew Hansen and Couldbull TV. Beruf戰aux All that over there. Love it. It's a very professional organization and it does... Shane has brought this up. It does piss me off. Somehow you managed to get a cannabis sponsorship before we did, which feels criminal. But yeah, it's amazing. Dude is smoking weed right now. Come on. People get mad about that sometimes, but it's like, have you hung out with pinballers like any of you? Exactly. And the best ones are literally just like chief and one outside and then five minutes later coming in smelling like a skunk and then putting up like 1.8 billion on Godzilla or something. So yeah, absolutely. Well, hey, thanks so much, Colin, and I'll see you soon, buddy. Yeah, thank you. Appreciate you. Thanks. So there it is with Colin of the kineticist. Just a great guy, great speaker. And yeah, it's pretty wild. Everything that's happened. And just in this just in breaking news. There is a statement from The artist, Jesper, he has made a statement. I think you have it in front of you there, Ian. We're going to talk a little bit about his statement here and what he is saying now after quite a long silence from the whole team over there. That's right. So yeah, back on Tilt Forum in the same post that we talk about where he was originally sort of accused of using AI. I, Jesper, as of two hours ago, has commented back. So here's his statement. I might not read all of it because it's quite long, but I will try to keep everything within context so we're not taking them out of context. So here we go. Hi, everyone. As one of the artists behind the new Harry Potter pinball machine from Jersey Jack, I'd like to take a moment to openly address the recent conversation surrounding the artwork, Hello this is Jeff facilityまた kali wazzaka. Done with the ні cities, Representatives of こんにちは KLaip wrapped around core and the stage tonight, we're at the four-hours teen convention that begins on the 18th of every October, and we're heading todlai.com on the executive five really tough. Loved it, you know? Come on, give it to us, why don't we be here till the before y'all start filming. Let's get started. It's just gonna be fun. All right, so we're just gonna… We make Ài you a將. We wanted to give fans something completely new, something immersive and visually rich. I mean, I won't editorialize much. That is debatable to what... Yes, we're going to talk about that. Yes, please continue. So we believe that taking this risk would result in a more rewarding experience for the player. To be transparent, this is the most important part, guys. To be transparent, we did use AI tools sparingly and intentionally as a way to support the visual blending of certain elements and create The project was designed to create harmony between complex assets. Every instance of AI use was guided by my own artistic vision and layered onto handcrafted designs. It was never about replacing the human element, it was about enhancing it. That said, not everyone involved in the project had direct knowledge or understanding of these technologies. The leadership team at Jersey Jack Pinball was not involved in the technical art pipeline and understandably they were not in a position to explain or defend these tools as they were We're unfamiliar with the specifics of how they were applied. The creative team took on that responsibility always with the intent of delivering the best product possible. And then there's more to this, you know, but let's just finish. At the end of the day, this machine was made for you, the players, the collectors, the fans. We know there will be feedback and we welcome it. Awesome. Because it means you care. We'll keep learning, keep pushing and keep creating. Thank you for your passion for Pinball Jesper. Okay. Hey, so what are your thoughts on that Shane? Well, I think the biggest thing that stands out to me is, you know, they admit it, right? I mean, he does admit that they use it, although the word sparingly and intentionally is very odd. And then, and then it almost sounds like after he's like admitting to it to like using it only to blend images together. But that's clearly not the problem. Like the dragon with the eye on two eyes on the side of his face and missing teeth. That's not like a blending into another graphic, you know, issue, right? And so it's kind of strange. It's sort of like admitting it but then not really getting down to the root of what people have a problem with. This is just one of those like non apology apologies, which is fine. No one's saying they need to apologize. They obviously are feeling like they need to respond to it. We're not, this isn't just us. Like you mentioned before, Knapp Arcade has written something, Colin's written something. I even know of a few anecdotally, I know of a few people who are actually not playing this game, both for the trans reason, but also for the AI reasons. So one of the things that I took issue with was the last sentence in that paragraph where he says, it was never about replacing the human element, it was about enhancing it. Because like if that's enhancing it, like you enhanced it to look like barf, you know, like that. So like let's be real. Maybe the intention. I mean, I don't know. Maybe his intention, their intentions were that in their mind, but it doesn't feel like that. It feels like they tried to take assets, right? Because they, they, they also say they're trying to do something completely different that hasn't been done before. And, and that, I mean, that may be true if you're using AI, but I don't really understand what they mean. Because it's not like the graphics that they're using, like the poses of the characters or like this is all directly from stills of the movie, right? Essentially, they're not it's not like they redrew or reimagined things, right? Except for things that weren't there, like wrong windows or the castle looking different than it actually looks, you know, things like that. Right. No, that's totally fair. And I do think so. There is one small paragraph that I skipped that might shed some light into this tube, which is the theory that I had was that he was using AI this whole time. Fine, whatever. Usually people can kind of hide it better than what he did. My assumption was that because they are working so closely with a licensor who has very strict, you know, like they're talking about what they can and can't put into the game up until we're in the game. Follow us on Twitter and Facebook.
    74:49
    Thanks for watching! We hope you enjoyed this video's video. If you're still here, be sure to leave us a great like and comment. What the audience sees is the final product, but what you don't see is the countless revisions, challenges, feedback loops, technical restrictions, and approvals that went into making it all come together. It's honestly a wonder that we were able to create something this complex and detailed, and I'm incredibly proud of what we achieved as a team. Okay, whatever, I don't care about the second half. But the first half, he is kind of saying, I think, what I was saying, but you know what? In around two hours we'll release all questions and answers to join us up next week. We'll talk with some of the most experiencedJacks people on Anchor, Andrew Pangando, P trials Oscar, and Jack Stillman. Thanks, Josh and Ryan for joining. It'siced gestup, Kerry Jones, of BetSwijrt." So Jon, can I just essas Porque especially because you've just published in symmetry just one software... You've done more jumps than you've done着 More jumps that you've come up with... You hunt down... Tim Kitzrow...
    76:21
    Artwork from something that exists or even Johnny crap our last guest and what he did with Jurassic Park huge property huge movie and he had to do the same thing on a playfield and he'd only done it once before no I sorry it was his first game his first game and and he managed to do that he managed to make it work so this idea that like it's amazing that we were able able able to do this it's like this is not the first pinball machine playfield that that someone has worked on right so like I don't really get it. I don't get the statement. And, you know, I will give Jesper some credit for making a statement, coming out with this. And I don't know if there was a little bit of a nudge from Jersey Jack, like, hey, you got to say something or someone's got to say something here. But I think, really, it should be a JJP employee that should be saying this, whether it's, you know, Jack himself, or JP DeWin, who's like, I guess the art guy over there. All of these are people I would be more interested in hearing from. Word. But I do respect that Jesper came out and actually made a statement here about it. And you're absolutely right, Shane. It should be someone from Jersey Jack saying this because they're the ones who are ultimately going to be making money off these sales. And the only thing that we have from them right now is Eric Minier talking about hand-drawn 7 introduction for air брос island
    78:17
    I do think like, dude, when Jack Guarnari comes out and is popping his mouth off that, oh, there was no AIU, like I'm so confident. It's like, Jack, shut the hell up. You're old. You don't know. You're not connected. So shut the hell up. He literally didn't know, I think. And I don't even know if Eric necessarily knew. I don't know. We don't know. No, I'm sure. I'm sure he probably didn't because it sounds like it was kept from those guys. But you know what, Jack? That's irresponsible of you to make that statement. www.willywonka.com responsibility but you hired this guy you're the one who okayed the playfield it's out there right so right take some responsibility whether you're proud of it or not fine whatever whether you want to justify it or not fine whatever but to lie to us whether it's because of ignorance or because you don't want to admit it you have to take accountability for that so um that's something for me that is like you could have said nothing the probably the move was to say Willy Wonka, Black Water, Pinball System, Best Pinball driven by う mm googles rickcha. Bodemuyrml chu-kattler sama��고 erben hegyarman cri patientrulr Washington State Corye But, to say something that is patently false, whether you knew it or not, now I would definitely like you to kind of come out and say something about it. I just didn't remember what context he made that statement in, if he was asked about it or, I don't know how deliberate the statement was, or if he was asked point blank and gave an immeidiate response, I don't know. He did! He said there was no, it was at a conference, we have a link to it, actually there is a The link to it on the kineticist article. But he was at a conference and expo and he said it was not used. Like, period. Like, there was no room for like ambiguity in his statement. Well, now we know. Which I know it's not true. I mean, literally, the artist has admitted it. And that's what I mean is it feels a little irresponsible to make that statement when you don't know. And here's the thing, man, is like pinball is a small world. We know people are listening to this. We know that people for employees of not just Jersey Jack but other companies listen to our podcast and other you know pinball creators especially Colin and I think all the whole point of this is like we're not trying to like we need accountability of bringing out the pitchforks and we're not trying to like tank this game or anything but I do think that it's important discussion to be had that we are not cool with this and neither is the community and moving forward I hope that Jersey Jack never does this again. I hope that any artist they hire, they have a very strong, like, we do not use AI. We don't use it. I hope Stern Pinball does the same thing. I hope Pinball Brothers, I, we haven't, I don't know if anyone's looked over the Predator playfield yet with a fine-tooth comb to see what they've done. But, you know, I just really hope that this makes a big splash enough that we change the future for the good of pinball and that we can, like, basically rid the pinball world of AI when it comes to pinball art. Yeah, man, you can't have it both ways. You can't say that these are like super awesome, high luxury items that we're spending $15,000 on and say we need cost cutting measures when it comes to art or the things that actually make it a collectible. Steve H
    82:33
    Part of the appeal of these things is the craftsmanship that goes into them. This one feels like it missed the mark. And Jersey Jack is the best at that. They're the best at, in pinball, at presentation. At historically, that's true. At putting, like, putting a $15,000 luxury game in a rich guy's game room. That's the one you want because that they have, they have all the bells and whistles and no one is disputing that. I think that it's just this one particular thing is not cool, man. Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle,
    83:32
    i good Ella Azza Theme That's me right now, you know, like being a little baby. Well, I would really like Bumper Geist to dissect the Jesper response like he's been doing with all the different graphics. I'd like I'd like him to go line by line on the on the response on tilt forums. We'll see if that comes next. As of recording this, it is Thursday, June 26th, and this podcast will probably be out. I'm going to rush this one out, I think, because time is of the essence. And this is obviously still a fluid situation up to a point. But I think the other moving part here is the licensor, the studio. Like, I don't know if someone at the studio frickin' sent them AI generated images and was like, here's what you have to use. That would be the only thing that would be maybe like, okay, I see where you're at. If this was like... Yeah, but... But they didn't say that. I will honestly his statement says the opposite he says they layered it on top of hand-drawn assets is what he says so yeah I I don't think they were given like any kind of like bunk images I think whatever they did was what the artist in what Jersey Jack approved and ultimately what Warner Brothers approved I guess I totally so we'll see there there are tons of lawsuits right now happening between it's basically like AI versus IP my two Pat Well, thank you for being here, everybody. Thank you for listening to this. Let us know what you think. We need to get a Discord channel going. We need to get some stuff going. Yeah, we will. We'll do that. We do. But we need to keep the discussion going when we're not just yapping here, the two of us. But yeah, we want to know what you think. Make sure you're following this podcast, following us on Instagram. That's kind of the most active we are on the Nudge Instagram. And, um, yeah, make sure, yeah, you're subscribed, followed, all that stuff. Um, and, um, more importantly, if you need a game, maybe you, you really don't care about the AI artwork.
    86:37
    Maybe you are a big supporter of JK Rowling, whatever you, whatever it is. Maybe you just want an awesome shooting game with deep code and 96 modes and everything else that this Harry Potter machine has. And you can get one from Jeff at Mad Pinball. All of these are part of the Jeff just screaming at his iPhone right now the whole time being like shut the hell up and help me move some Harry Potters right now. Well, you know what? I'm sure they're selling. I mean, I know they definitely are. I already told me that they are flying off the shelf because it's a great game. And I mean, come on. But hey, there's other other games out right now, too. We've talked about how awesome it is out there right now with Kong being incredible game. Dune just got an update. It fucking rules. I played it last night. It's so fun. It's like really getting developed and the flipper situation on the one that I played is amazing. It plays like a Stern and I say that as a compliment for sure. Well yeah, for sure. Everybody knows Stern has the snappiest flippers in the game but no, for sure. Check out those games and anything else. I know a lot of games are undergoing really great code development right now too. I've heard X-Men is about to have a giant one too. Dungeons and Dragons just had a big code drop. So yeah, if you need any of those games for your game room, hit up Jeff at Mad Pinball at madpinball.com and use our promo code Nudgecast and get a free t-shirt from us directly. We'll send you a shirt, exclusive. Hi Jeff. Jeff Fischer Yep, thanks Jeff. And yeah guys, speaking of t-shirts, we also have a new nudge. I lost my job two weeks ago, so I'm moving t-shirts. I need to do it. So we also have a black t-shirt available on NudgePinball.com. Go check it out. It says No Days Off on it. It's really cool. It's based on a photograph that I took. Brian did the design. I'm really proud of it. It kind of has like a hip 90s style to it. So if you're interested, please go check those out. But that's enough. It's enough advertisements for us this week. Shane, let's have a chill week. Go play some pinball, center our chi again, and like let's come back and we're just we're gonna have a fun old time this time. That's what I'm about. That's right. We did the work and now we're gonna get back to having some fun, playing some pinball and shooting the shit next time on The Nudge Cast. Thanks everybody.