Hello everybody. Welcome to episode 10. I'm going to get the number right. I totally [ __ ] that up. Last time I wrote nine instead of eight or something. Uh today is Tuesday. It's podcast day and I am so excited to introduce two of my most favorite people that I love to watch on the internet. Tournaments, just educational pinball action. You anything you want. It's Rachel and Kale from Electric Bat Arcade. Welcome. Yeah. All hail our great Anunnaki overlords, dude. The great praise the great pyramid. I mean, how could you Oh my god, how did you do that? There's hearts coming out of you. Oh, that's terrifying. This is next level technology. Uh, so I, you know, when I got into the whole streaming thing, you guys were kind of the one of the OG podcast for this and something that I watched to be able to frame what I'm doing here. So to have you on the show is is such a privilege for me and I'm really excited for this. Uh I would love to talk about what it's like to to operate an arcade. One, you've got to be insane to be doing that to begin with. Uh and two to operate an arcade with such crazy hours as you do. So tell me when did Electric Bat Arcade start? Uh it started on my 39th birthday in September um 2018. Yeah. And just just to be clear, Rachel started we we were not together when she started this thing. She started this thing on her own and then and then she brought me into the fold. So, has Kale been more of a help or a hindrance? Oh, he's been a huge help. He's been a huge help. All things social are Kale. All things socially awkward are Rachel. Okay, man. She had the opportunity to throw you under the bus and didn't. That's awesome. That's That speaks volumes. Uh, if you don't know, you guys are married, right? And what is what is it like to operate a blurry camera because the camera wants to focus on Lord of the Rings instead of me? Get out of here. Uh, has there has there been any kind of like friction, for lack of a better word? I mean, I think being married is hard. It's hard work. And to run a business at the same time has got to just be like a just the best test of a relationship possible. Yeah, we're we're really lucky. Yeah, we we just kind of work well together. I think I think it helps that like we have our general lanes that we just both excel at different parts of the business. So, he's not going to interject anything about accounting and I'm not going to tell him how to run Instagram. Yeah, we That's awesome. Weird. Yeah, it it's it's amazing. Well, we what we have found together, our our work and life is just so rare. We We are the only times we are apart is in the mornings when I go do jiu-jitsu every morning 7:00 and she goes to yoga or up a mountain. Other than that, we're together like critical question part of our day. Yeah. Does Does jiu-jitsu and yoga help moving pinball machines? Yes, jiu-jitsu definitely does. Yeah. What's What's the move to grapple a pinball machine? You have to have a strong base. Yeah. Is Is what's going You have to have a strong base. And we've seen all the the amazing stances everybody has. So there's not one that that works for everybody. You have to find your base. But if you've ever played the ball next to Kale, you know that he has a very strong and wide base. Oh, so you're like a you're like a horizontal lineman stance. Instead of going backwards with it, you kind of go wide. Mhm. Yeah. I've heard I don't never noticed this, but she says people don't like to play next to me. Are you a bad pinball person? Do you bang people that are like next to you? Are you a Are you a contact bubble in like some Well, sometimes my feet accidentally are in other people's areas, but I'm I'm more cognizant of it now. How How wide is your stance? There's a there's a crazy If you go deep if you do a deep dive on our Instagram, there's a Yeah, there's a real a funny photo of it. Yeah, I'll I'll post it today. Okay. If you had to pick game widths, like is it past like one game width? Are we looking at two to three game widths? Oh, it's past a super wide body. Yeah, it's it's past Paragon. Yeah, it's Yeah. So, you're doing the uh Chuck Norris like leg splits while you play basically. Yeah. Two stools. I need two stools and you know I had two stools this morning which is really rare for me. So, I'm pretty I'm pretty happy about it. Speaking of cheers to that. Let's get the flow going. The The poop must flow. So, have you heard of this stuff? Pin grounds. Some who who sent us this I haven't I haven't there's so much uh coffee in pinball. So, there was someone who joined the stream or I'm sorry, they were talking on uh uh Logan Arcade. Uh they were talking about how they're they have a roastery and that that's like their thing is pinball and roaster. And I just talked to Tony from What's Brewing, which is also like this is like the new fat. Alcohol. Get out of here. Coffee and pinball. Come on down. Weed. We should brand. I totally agree with that. We do have the connections to do that. Let's try it. We do. We do. I just realized that the natural sun has destroyed my lighting. So, I'm going to throw you to tell a story real quick while I go turn that light on. Uh, so we're going to flash back to 2018. Rachel, you are like, "Fuck, I should open an arcade cuz I'm crazy, right?" What is What was the choice on opening this? Um, the the story was that I was asked to do it by the people that owned Yucka Tap Room, old dive bar, very very old dive bar, and I said no. And they were persistent and I finally said, "Okay, that's the short version of the story." Okay. So, do you still have a relationship with them? Is that still their location? You just operate the arcade inside of it or Yeah. Well, it's separate from It started in what used to be their offices. Like the the very first arcade had, I think, 13 pinball machines and seven or eight arcade games and some bubble hockey. Um, and then it's obviously expanded. We knocked down some walls since then, so now we're in the space next door as well, but it's still connected to Yaka. We're still um we work very closely together, although they're they're separate businesses, but there are some shared ownerships. But you know, the great story that you just glossed over was the these the two guys that own Yucka Tap Room back then. There's There's another business partner now. They saw the writing on the wall and was like, "We need an arcade. We can't just live off of being a dive bar." And so they they went around town to other uh there was there was another arcade in town, Barcade. Well, you can't really say that at at a bar with an arcade. Um wait, why can't you say Barcade? Oh, because they own the Barcade owns the trademark. It's trademarked. Like if you use that in your social media, if you use it as a tag, you'll get a letter. That explains why Blipsies out here changed their name from Barcade to whatever it is now. Yeah. They are highly protective. They have a team of attorneys that will protect that brand and you know whatever. Uh anyhow, they the the two business partners that owned Yucka Tap Room, a 50-year-old uh dive bar in in Tempe, Arizona, they saw the writing on the wall. They needed more entertainment besides just the the live music and and the food and alcohol. Yeah. I mean, there's serious live music almost every night of the week. So, they asked around town and everybody said, "You need to speak to Rachel Best." And they were like, "Well, where are we going to find her?" Well, uh, Rachel and her friends many many years ago, I think like 10 or 12 years ago, started uh, Zapcon, which is Arizona's premier pinball and arcade convention. Uh, so they they bought tickets, found her working in a machine, and she they're like, "Uh, are you Rachel Best?" And she look she said she looked up with her headlamp and blinded him. He's like, "Yeah, who are you guys?" Well, we we're the owners of Yucka Tap Room. And And Rachel remembers Yucka Tap Room, you know, from uh you know, like high school. I grew up a mile away. Yeah. And she's like, "What what do you guys want?" And they're like, "Well, we we want you to build an arcade in our bar." And she was like, she had no interest in doing it. Uh so she finally she was like, "Give me a card. I'll I'll get some information together and I'll come I'll consult you guys, but I don't want to run an arcade." Smart. It sounds like it's a lot of work. And boy, it's a good thing you're not really busy doing that all the time now. So, I guess that worked out. Yeah, we actually if Kayla and I didn't like each other so much, there's no way like if if one of us was not doing this, I don't think that the other one could be because we're there more than we're at home. Um it would it would make for a real shitty marriage if you know one of us was always away. Yeah. It's like, you know, the marriages in the service industry, you know, they they say they just don't really last or it's it's very difficult. Sure. But it's it's great that we get to do it together. Yeah. That's amazing. Um it seems to me is the two best things that go together are alcohol and pinball because everybody loves when drinks are put on their games. How do you prevent the just the atrocity of somebody dumping a beer onto the pinball machine? Happens probably five times a week. Yeah. I mean, you you just have to have a good beer seal. You're fine. And And we have these nice tables uh that uh Rachel actually designed that are in between all the machines. So, people do spill it, you know, they they I've never in in eight years, seven years, we've never had any um damage from and it's been spilled hundreds and hundreds of times. I mean, a little rubbing alcohol on mechanics will clean it off, right? I mean, yeah. And then sometimes you like sometimes the beer seal will uh kind of stick from the lock down bar on the glass. So you've got to like take a razor and like scrape that off. But once you clean everything off, it's it's good. It doesn't it it doesn't These are commercial pieces of equipment and we treat it like it man. We they're road hard. They can they can handle it. Mhm. I mean pinball machines are designed to break just by using them. So you'd think that they would have a little bit of a you know Yeah. They can take a beating, right? Uh, I think your stream looks like it's it's not happy. We got a low bit rate. I'm I might wait a second for that to catch up. Uh, we we'll field some questions. There's a lot of people saying, "Hi." Dr. Doobie says he's in it for Pinweed. That's going to be his new business. Nuclear Black suggests Tavern Cave as a replacement for Barcade. It's not bad. Oh, I like that. Tavern Cave. It's got more of a like a like a CD like I don't know. I like Batman would be in there having a having a drink, right? Sounds like a place I'd like to go. Uh, all right. So, the stream's better now. Uh, all right. So, Electric Bat Cave. I have a few like questions about the name if it's a pun and a reference to certain things before you say that cuz I mean sometimes flippers can be called bats. So, like an electric bat would be an electrified flipper. So, that's that's pretty smart. I don't know if that's that's part of it, but yeah, there it is right there. Look at that. It's It's an electric bat. So, what is the origin story of the name? Um, I really all this happened. I don't even remember. It's not like I was thinking about it that hard. It was like, well, I guess I'm opening an arcade next week, so what should I call it? Um, you know, I'm kind of an old school goth girl and so Oh, yeah. Bats, Bats, electric bat. It worked. And then I drew up a couple of logos in an afternoon. Um, and asked uh Tim, our then like super gnarly kitchen guy, angry kitchen guy, like, "Hey, which one of these do you like the best?" He chose this one. So that's that was like, "Okay, cool. Well, you know, I didn't even know that story." Yeah. The cranky kitchen guy determined like which logo options. Well, I I have your I have your swag page pulled up on the on the web browser right now. Uh, I do like the fact release the bats, by the way. As a as a closet industrial individual, I uh I thoroughly approve. I do like your giant glowy cup. I feel like more arcades need giant glowy cup. Yeah. All things glow-in-the-dark, all things bats. That's That's what we uh like to do. Awesome. All right. Uh I got to check my notes now. Okay. So, it's it's 2018. You've opened the arcade. At what point? One thing I really do love about like your guys podcast, which by the way, everybody who's watching, thank you one for showing up. And two, you should absolutely go check out Electric Bass podcast, which has been running for quite a while now. You guys are what episode like I don't know 40 or 30 or 40 or something. I don't think we we basically right now do about once once a month. So I think it's only on like 20 something. But it but you're right. It feels like a lot more. Feels like a really Well, I didn't mean so much. I well, one thing I was going to say about it is that uh you I love how transparent you guys you are. You talk about earnings, you talk about the business, it's like and as somebody that obviously cares about transparency in this kind of business. That's so refreshing. And I think that uh I don't know. I think that you guys have really set the model for our kids about how they should operate and and how it should be a template for other places. How do you do you think that you've seen yourself and the and the business model changed since you've opened? Uh yeah. Yeah, I think so. Well, I mean, let's let's get into how, like I said, Electric Bat, our podcast, our streaming, none of it has been planned. This This is all a big accident. I mean, even how Electric Bat started. Some guys were like, "Hey, can you do this?" And Rachel's like, "H, you know, I can. I don't really want to." And then it accidentally all happened and rolled into this this huge thing. with with the podcast. We started as guests on the Pinball Party podcast with Jason and uh he was on the Pinball Network. He invited us to be on there as kind of like the word on the street like what what's happening, what games are earning and his audience loved the Rachel's earnings report so much. And it we didn't even think it was like a big deal, but like people are like more more we want to we want to know what the top earners are. And then uh uh Jason Jason stopped doing the podcast. Uh so I was like and I still had all these notes from his his fans his his fan base. Some questions. Yeah. Questions. And um I was like, Rachel, why don't why don't we just do it? And we actually we started it on your birthday. You You opened the arcade on your birthday. We started the podcast and it was the first one's very funny. if you go back uh you know I don't we didn't have any lights we were just using the laptop and um you know I was just I was asking her these questions and and people like really took to it and and now we have so many people well other locations reaching out. We have we have a Discord has almost like 400 people uh chatting about uh pinball and and pinball repairs and and pinball trends. Um and and even it's got industry people have reached out to us and like hey we're listening to your earnings report like everybody is is really into this thing but this is not something we set out to do and and it's the it's the best thing when when stuff happens organically like that. It's just better. Sure. All the I feel like a lot of unexpected things or unexpected like unexpected pregnancies otherwise my wife wouldn't be here. So like you know I appreciate that. Happy accident. Yeah. Um, so when you when you choose to put a machine in the arcade, like do earnings come into it or I mean you're obviously both like huge pinball fans. Like it's not like you were a business that decided that you're just going to buy pinball machines and have it to make money. I I feel like it's very clear from the way you talk about pinball and and your broadcast that you just love pinball. So does that go into your determination on what the list of games is in it? Really? It doesn't. Oh, really? Yeah. No. Um, is this list up to date? Can I pull up your your website list on the website? It should be. It's It's up to date. Yeah. Scrapes pinball maps. Amazing. I'm It's It's This is such a amazing list of games. Uh, yeah. So, we put in a lot of classic like a lot of classic games. Um, and those, you know, they're 50 cents a play. They're not going to earn as much as King Kong, Evil Dead right now, but we really like playing them. And I think it also keeps people that are interested in that era of games coming in. So, in some ways, I guess that's a financial decision because it makes the arcade appealing to more people. It also makes it so that we can run classics tournaments, but more importantly, like it makes it the arcade that I want to play in. And that that kind of is that's that's really our our guidepost for every decision that's made from like what's on the walls, what's you know what are you playing, how how is the whole thing run tokens versus any of the other methods. Like this is the arcade that I want to play in. So that's the one I'm going to make. Right. It's not a vintage arcade. I mean it's not a retro arcade. It's a vintage arcade. It's this is this is what I want and and you want and that's how it is. I mean, it's your business. Hell yeah. I told Ian on his when he was on my podcast and he he was he said what I said was controversial. I'm curious if you agree with this. I said that it's the responsibility of arcades to maintain a certain number of what you would consider classic games because otherwise those games will never really be experienced by the general population just because those aren't really the games that people are like purchasing. Do you do you think is that true or am I off my rocker? Uh I think it's true because that's what we that we do that. We do do that but I think if you um I think it's the responsibilities of arcades to maintain games. So if you are incapable of maintaining games from what I consider an easier era to maintain but you know the more often little things happen I guess. Um, I I think that's the higher mark of what what needs to be done. So if I would rather have an arcade have whatever games that they can keep in good working condition so that people play games and then want to come back or go to another ex arcade. And I think that's that's the issue that the people that have problems with the Pinball Hall of Fame I was just going to talk about Vegas. Yeah. Yeah. because that's so many people's introduction and it seems like this is the you know shining star of all pinball. Um and then you go there and you know experience you know they still have 100 working games but uh 150 call it could you call it working if it's like the left flipper can't even get up at the ramp kind of situation for half the games. Yeah. I think most of us have have done that p pilgrimage and we've we know what that experience is like and I think that's why it angers so many people like when you're coming to to back up that and say oh no but he still has some working games and they work hard and they donate to charity. Well, I mean, great, but um if you're making it so that the thousands of people that come through your doors don't ever want to go to another arcade to play pinball, um what have you done for anything that negative? Yeah. Their responsibility is to have pinball be the best first experience for people that are not, you know, people that have experienced pinball before. If you think that every pinball machine barely works and that that's just part of the hobby, that's like you're doing a disservice to what should be hopefully a new member of the pinball Illuminati, you know? Yeah. Yeah. You get yelled at losing quarters on games that don't work. Yeah. And nothing feels worse than sticking money in something and not getting it out. Uh or as an experience out of it. There's a few good questions here. Uh Billy, what's going on, man? Uh thanks for hopping on. He says, "With the growth of arcades, have you noticed any change in demographs for your patrons?" I mean, I guess you have bars. They're not going to be under 21 for the most part. Well, we do allow um underage people in with a guardian uh especially during tournament times, you know, like 10:00 and on. No, not really. But the one thing that I think you found surprising was when you came out, how many women play at the bat and and we don't really know if that is because I'm like I don't know. Why do you think that is? Well, I think cuz every time we've done some type of like local press, we we let people know this is a a womanowned and operated arcade. And I and I really because every time it seems like every time you do something like that, you see more women come out that we haven't seen before. You know, they feel like, well, you know, this is probably a a wonderful safe place. You know, it's not like a, you know, a CD dive bar. It is safe, but it is also a CD dive bar. There's a few I mean I think the bells andsh movement kind of across the states has been pretty strong in the last couple of years and there's some other womenowned arcades. I believe Linds is also a female owned and operated arcade. I mean I think that there's been a push and one thing that I personally love about pinball for at least a large portion of the hobby about being inclusive and open. Like there is a welcoming air to pinball these days now that it has become like an arcade experience. uh whether it be for trans people, LGBTQ community, whatever it is, it's like everyone who loves pinball wants more people to play pinball. It doesn't matter who the [ __ ] you are. And I think that that's that's what I try to preach on here. Playing with rednecks. It's the best time. Yeah. And we have we really do. We got people in their um NRA shirts having a you know, whooping it up with with all of the with the you know, everybody. Man, that's a that's a mashup. Okay. they all get along because they all have things in common. And Kale and I think that that's I mean that's so important. Instead of just like boycotting everything that you can boycott all the time like instead of dividing, why not do something that brings people together? Sure. Sure. Uh we got I got rapid fire three questions here. We got quarters or quarters or tokens? Tokens. Both. Oh yeah. Oh okay. Do your machines accept both quarters and tokens? Yep. Wow. How do your coinmex handle that? Or is the tokens exactly the same weight and material as the quarters? Yeah, the the mechs are made to handle both certain size token and quarters. Interesting. Uh Py says, "What about age range?" Um what has your demographic changed since the opening? I think is kind of the question. I'm truncating it to keep it rapid fire. Well, I I can tell you uh for for the tournaments, um I we have both noticed just maybe like in the past year, year and a half, lots of younger folks like, you know, 21 to 25 showing up. When I first start came in here to the Arizona tournament scene, it was basically all like late 30s and up, wouldn't you say? people roughly age all the way up to, you know, 60 70. Um, but man, now we have just an incredible group of everywhere from, you know, some of the players bring their kids. So, we have like 12 year olds up to like 75 year olds. It's crazy how good the 12 year olds are. Oh, I mean, let's see. How old is Zmac? I mean, there's like some of the best players in the world right now are like, what's that? He's 12. He's I'm sure he's going to love that. He's seven years old. No. Uh it's just it's crazy how the uh Well, I mean, I guess what Jim Belceto represented in indisc I think this year, didn't he? Didn't he win an an award in classics or something? Got to got to represent us old guys, you know, now that the younger generation is absolutely dominating something. A Yagpin. He won like a big title. I think it was a Yagpin. Is that what Maybe that's what I'm thinking of. I'm slapping Indis on there instead. Right. Jim's great, man. Yeah. What a collection too, man. Uh, yeah. And then Tenacious is asking, "What makes more, the bar side or the pinball side?" I I mean, I don't know how much of since the bar side is owned by a set of different partners, right? No, we have um It's complicated. Yeah, it's complicated. So, the Yucka Tap Room, the original dive bar, we have no part of that. I mean, we're we're business partners, but there's no money exchanged between Electric Bat and them. Um, we have our own bar in the arcade that we run. Ra Rachel Rachel manages that. Um, it's only open from 6:00 p.m. on and it makes a third of our monthly income. Interesting. Do you purchase the like alcohol kegs from Yucka to stock that? Um well there's no kegs and it's mostly like tiki drinks and liquors or bottled beer. Gotcha. Um so yes we do purchase everything and we pay the bartenders. Um and we do those purchases through Yaka Tap Room. It's their liquor light. It's It's like a all interwoven but the financials are Electricbat and Yaka. And so the pinball side, the coin drop for electric bat earns more than um the alcohol does. I don't know how much alcohol yucka is selling to people who are only at the arcade who are there for going to the tap room, right? There's really no way to to separate that part out. So I can't answer that in full aside from a third of our income. Sure. Is probably I don't know. I think we're kind of rare. I mean, we talked to other operators and I think we're we're kind of rare here where the majority of our income actually comes from Coin Drop. Gotcha. So, uh, right before we were talking earlier about how, you know, having machines that operate great. You told me earlier that you have these two techs that really take care of pretty much everything in terms of machine maintenance. Do you want to talk about who they are? That's That's us. And John Choppel. Yeah. Yeah. It is. So all of those machines are taken care of primarily by Kale and I. And John Chapel, who I would say is a better tech than both of us, um does uh is there technically one day a week. Um he you know he'll he'll work a few hour you know he'll pitch in other times as well but day in day out is yeah I I didn't know I I had never opened well to to repair a pinball machine uh really until Rachel started the electric bat arcade but I knew so much about a pinball machine how it works and the parts because I used to sell parts at at Marco's specialty um Oh I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. I was a graphic designer and customer service. I I would spend all week on the phone helping people and that's how we met that and that's a cool story if you want to get into that. Absolutely. Of course I want to get into that. That's amazing. Yes. Microphone. Where you going? I I was working at electric I mean I was working at Marco Specialties and uh I took a break from that for a I worked for you know maybe a couple years and I took a I took a break and then Rachel came in to run the the show circuit cuz uh you know if people don't know uh lots of times well especially back in the day Marco would team up with Stern and and go do the booths at at all the shows and uh and they still they still do that stuff to some extent. But they bring in other distributors now. Um, but I I got a call from one of my buddies at Marco and they were like, "What are you doing?" I was like, "Oh, I'm just hanging out right now." Um, he's like, "Uh, we would like you to come back and work here. We really we really need somebody." Um, and and there's this really cool girl running the the road show named Rachel. She's an amazing artist. Yeah. Check out her website. She's a lot of fun. and you know hopefully you guys will get to work together on the road. And so I did come back and long story short, she became my boss on the road. Nice. And yeah, we we actually we met over Zoom. Yeah. On Slack or whatever. One of those. Yeah. But as most great relationships start, Zoom, right? Right. Uh so anyway, we we got to know each other on the road uh with with Marco and the whole crew, Mark Mandletor, Nancy, uh Paul, Steve, the you know, that whole that amazing crew. There's a bunch of new people working there now and it's still a great crew. Um but uh shortly after that, I think I asked you to marry me on on Slack, wasn't it? On Slack. You asked me to marry you before you had met me. I do I do like that most of the landmarks of your relationship happen on some sort of uh you know technology communication software. That's great. Right. Are you do you plan on renewing your vows on like ICQ or like WhatsApp or Hey, you're talking to someone with a six-digit ICQ number. Whoa. I bet most people in chat don't even know what the hell I'm talking about right now. That is okay. Just shows how old we are. Get even more old school than that. There are people that come to the arcade now that I that we that I used to know when I was a BBSER in high school and then we figured out you know 30 years later that um you know we were on the same BBS which for people who do not know it's a bulletin board. It's before the internet really the the internet as we know it right before Amazon. we're gonna have to pirate some of the uh broadcasts and put them on IRC, you know, too. But that that's how we met working at at Marco Specialties and that's how I learned about pinball machines and parts and that's where I made a lot of connections that um you know that helped me when I need some parts, you know, and I'm fixing the machine. What's So, as someone who worked at Marco, if what where is your go-to for like when you cannot find a component someplace? Like what is there? What's the secret shop that has all the weird [ __ ] that you're just like, "Man, I need to I don't know need Rudy's jaw." There's really nothing like that. It's like eBay. But But we don't or Walter, our friend who welds. Yeah. It's It's a When When you're When you have machines that get played as much as ours, you I mean, metal just breaks, brackets break, and it's so important to have somebody that can fabricate stuff for you or just weld it back together. So, what I've learned is that it is really important to have a welding friend, somebody who owns a roastery to get plenty of coffee, a bar so that you can operate your arcade in it, and then somebody that can repair all your pinball machines and or order your components. Is that would you say that's the fundamental uh foundation for a successful arcade? That's That's it. And that's money in the bank. Boom. Done. Okay. All you have to do is work like 18 hours a day in perpetuity and you'll be able to make almost as much as you would have made at Taco Bell. Nice. This is man lofty dreams. Everybody who's in chat right now thinking about how much they want to start an arcade. If this doesn't convince them, I don't know what will. But let's talk about your hours. Speaking of, so Electric Bat opens at 6:00 in the morning, right? Mhm. And closes at 3. Two. Two. Okay. So, our staff is there until 3 or 4. Are you closing out each night? Like, do you just get 4 hours of sleep a night? Like, what the hell's the routine? Um, we go in usually kind of midday most days and stay until evening depending, you know, assuming there's no tournament. Like tonight, as soon as we're done here, we're going to head to the arcade. There'll be a tournament. We'll be there until 11 or midnight. Nice. But But normally we we don't have to be there for the 20 hours a day. Um so we just kind of come in and go depending on what needs to be done. Cool. I mean that sounds we are working. I mean so you have staff that you've you have a you have a foundation of staff that not only do you trust but that is so good at operating the day-to-day that you can feel confident just rolling in kind of whenever and rolling out whenever knowing that things are taken care of. Yeah. Well the Yeah. And the Yucka Tap Room bartenders do a lot of that. I mean, cuz there isn't really a lot that needs to be done other than like make sure the people have the alcohol that they want. And if something is broken, turn it off till we get there. I mean, there's 65 pinball machines on the floor. So, if something breaks, it can be down for a few hours, you know? Right. I feel like people aren't going to flip their mind just because one 165th of the collection is no longer functioning unless it's like the brand new thing that everybody wants to play and then got to get down there ASAP. Do you have a personal collection or is all of your machines in electric bat? We We just started a personal collection right now. I'm looking at a Godzilla Pro and a Dungeons and Dragons premium. Uh because we we closed our northern location. Uh I'm putting my face down because me and D and D do not get along. It is an ongoing battle on this channel. That is like one of my least favorite games in the last like decade. But I digress. It's Rachel's most favorite game. Anyways, thanks so much guys for being on the podcast. This has been really great. Thank you everybody for watching and have a great day. Yeah, I'm kidding. Uh, no, but that's what's great about pinball is that it's subjective games can be super entertaining for one for one party and and not for the other. But anyways, back to your collection. Well, yeah. Well, back to what you're talking about. I listen to your reasoning behind it and it's solid. I didn't even think about it. You know, how like feeding the right flipper and the limited ways to do that. You You have a great point. Yeah. A large portion of the shots are just about getting up to a very unsatisfying scenario. Right. Right. Um but Rachel loves uh Rachel loves D and D. So she she had to had to get into this. You You because I wanted the game to be better. And I will say though as a code did help that game a lot more than I thought. The recent updates have improved it pretty pretty substantially. Um but here's another question though. Let's Let's talk about Dn D because this is Dirty Pool and why wouldn't we? Um, yeah, so the left ramp and the right magnet fail within 20 or 30 minutes of play because they overheat. You know, Carl had it on his on his channel and Pin Monk is developing some sort of fan system to help delay that. How is that mechanic not working like affect operators like a game that has a known defect that is that is causing problems? How do you handle that? We have not noticed that. Yeah, we have not noticed that. Interesting. So you you're talking about the the ramp on the left that pops up and down. Correct. That one gets up to about 250° and the solenoid stops functioning. There's no thermal protection unit on it. It just stops functioning. And then the magnet on the uh cube actually has a protection circuit. And once it hits 155°, it stops grabbing the ball. It just won't do it anymore. It just shuts off until it cools off. I This is the first time hearing about it. I'm very surprised we haven't experienced that because our our games are on uh so for so long. Sure. And especially when we first got it because that game was played for over 20 hours straight non-stop. Amazing. And it's possible that that magnet didn't catch it and then it the game was so new that people didn't realize. But I know that whenever I play it at the arcade I I've never experienced that. I I believe that, you know, that may be the case on some, but maybe we just got lucky or I mean, it's a testament that every game is also unique, too. I know that a lot of people are like, "This is my least favorite game, but like that same game that's tuned a different way at a different location may be amazing because of it just flows a lot better." Yeah, I guess. Look, I'm not unhappy or I'm not surprised that I got a lemon. I have so many issues with my D&D, which is another issue. But Ste's been very good. Everything's taken care of. Anyways, enough of that. Back to back to electric bat, which is the whole point of this. Um, so what is like the most annoying thing about running an arcade pinball wizard stuff from randos? People are like, "What do you mean?" Oh, you're a real pinball wizard, aren't you? Haha. Oh, to you? They don't They don't tell me that. Well, Kale, I don't know if that's what, but I I think the It's funny you I don't know if you're forgetting this or you just don't want to bring it up to to make anybody angry. No, I'm forgetting. It's I think but I think this is with any business. It's uh working with the city. Oh, yes. I was just thinking about that. Like getting permitting and all that good stuff. That's absolutely the worst the absolute worst of anybody trying to open up any business. I don't think it's different. I know it's the same way for everybody in all of the cities in the valley. So that's like five or six different cities that we know of people who have tried to open businesses in and everything is just like you think you can do it in two to three months and it ends up taking over two years. Right now, we are finally finally getting air conditioning, an additional air conditioning unit in Arizona that we desperately need that for some stupid reason had to require like all this permitting took two and a half years thousands of dollars. How is a business that can't Carl Weathers that kind of storm supposed to survive through that kind of bureaucracy? That's so frustrating. It's It's maddening. And we know of a few arcades that are opening up right now. Some of them are just moving locations, but either way, they're having to go through the whole permitting process all over again. And I I don't know how you pay rent on a space for two years that you can't use, right? Yeah. I mean, open a business, don't generate any revenue for two years. Anybody that was that if you had an investor, they would tell you to go [ __ ] yourself. There's no way they would they would invest something like that. What kind of permit does an arcade technically fall under? Well, just a general business. Okay. There's I mean depend that depends on the city that you're in. I'm sure that changes a lot for people and whether or not you have alcohol or no I mean there's there's a lot of different factors, but we weren't trying to do any of that. I mean it was just um what would happen is you would turn in your paperwork and then they would have 90 days or whatever to get back to you and on the 90th day they'd send you a thing that says, "Oh, we want you to do this thing." it's absolutely not part of your job description. Like this should not be done by you, but we've decided that it's going to be. So then you have to pay an like a fee to make it to an extension fee. So that way they can go back and review the thing that you shouldn't have had to do in the first place, right? And then um then on the very last day of that, they're like, "Oh, we're going to charge you another fee because we took too long." What ended up happening is that they gave us our they they called me in the morning and said, "Okay, no, they didn't even call me. It was an email that I just happened to read on, you know, right after they sent it and they said, "Your permit will be approved as long as you can get a contractor assigned to the job in the next 6 hours." What? And if not, you have to start completely over. Yep. We pulled it off. Yeah. These people don't know. Unbeliev That's so [ __ ] Yeah. So, in like for example, one of the things when people are thinking like, well, what does she think that she shouldn't have to do? We're in a we're in a it's called Denell Plaza. It's a big plaza from the '60s. It has over 900 parking spaces. And most of the businesses are defunct. They're in the middle of like uh reimagining re, you know, redoing the plaza. Sounds like there's 900 parking spaces for people to play pinball. Essentially, that's what's going on. But they made me go in and do a parking assessment for every single business that was there currently or had been there previously and assess how many different type of park how many parking spaces each one should have been allocated based on the type of business that they are because you know retail you have to have so many parking spaces per square foot of business. So, I had to figure out what the square footage was. And these are businesses that maybe some of the pay you to do the city's job. How the hell is this your responsibility? Exactly. None of this is. And then I had to go in and say, "Well, this is what I think this business was the last time it was open, which I think would fall under this type of business." We had to pull up like historic records. I mean, this was was so asinine. And then they'd come back and say, "Well, how many bicycle spaces are there here? This is how many bike parking spaces there are. Well, is that for you?" You know, it just went on and on and on. And this is this is just bureauc bureaucracy. And you know, I don't I'm not sure why any of this was happening, but I wasn't in any I didn't have an option other than to do it if I wanted to get some air conditioning. Sure. And amazing that you did because you give a [ __ ] about your consumers or people that are playing. But like I feel like people that are into pinball and want to open an arcade, these aren't business people. Like nobody's sitting down to open an arcade because they went to [ __ ] Harvard or whatever, got a business degree and decided that like the most lucrative business they could open is a pinball arcade, right? Like right this is something you do for fun passion because you want to have a good time at your job, not because you want to be necessarily super rich, right? And you're paying rent and that rent goes to the city. So like why is the city giving? It's just it speaks so much of like how absolutely effed up the like zoning and like bureaucracy of like business property management is sorry that was just one example. I mean there are many more I could go but this was two and a half years of this and just an insane amount of money. So Wolfman says he went to Harvard and wants to open a pinball arcade. Well head on down to Tempe Arizona. Actually don't do that because you would have competition that would wipe you out of the water. But anyways that sucks. Uh we have chat is asking that they're coming to LA this weekend and Wolfman says to go to Acei. That's a good choice. You could also go to uh Walts. You could go to uh Revenge of You could head on down to uh the Goldfish. Any of those four would probably be a good good place to go to. Or you you could drive four hours bad arcade. Driving from LA to Tempe in 4 hours. You have a really that bad. I mean if I had to drive four hours I was thinking of San Diego. Oh, well, look, if I had to drive four hours with my choices being the uh Las Vegas Pinball Museum or Electric Bat Arcade, I think it's pretty obvious which choice I'm going to make. I'm going to go where the machines actually work. Uh, on that side tangent, have you had a cursed game? What's the game that has just been like no matter how many times you fix it, it's just still broken? Oh, yeah. It was Galactic Tank Force. Yeah, that was Galactic. Oh, American. Great. We get to talk about American Pinball. Amazing. Yeah, that game was not good. Yeah, did I mean we we talked about it all in the on the podcast and any anybody who's owned a Galactic Tank Force knows the issues with it. Uh and man, we went we got to know David Fix really really well and um I wouldn't say we got to know him really well. I'd say we talked to him a lot. We talked to him a lot. Yeah. Is the relationship good or is it stressed at this point? No, it's not a good relationship, I don't think. No. Well, that that look you cut at him at Expo, I think, scared him a little bit. Uh, no, but it was it was a constant battle. But he did he sent us a whole new machine. I mean, if you got a lemon, that's like the way to go, right? Like, I feel like to do except the machine that you send to replace the broken one should work better than the one that you just took back. And you know, as time went on, we kind of realized with everybody else that this was the some there were software issues that weren't going to be fixed. There were hardware issues that, you know, we kind of re-engineered some of it. Um, it it wasn't a good experience, which is too bad because the game could have been really cool. I was really looking forward to it. I like MST3K. I felt like this was kind of in that vein. I was very hopeful. You know, always you want new uh new companies to succeed, do cool new things, and they just um and and I think the most unfortunate part of the exchanges with American was that they um David Vix specifically was not truthful with us. Right. Right. I think I think your chat will enjoy this story. I don't think we've ever like told it straight out, but um you know, we we had like conference calls with David Fix who promised us there is absolutely nothing wrong with this game. He's like, you're you're just this is an anomaly. And um we're like, dude, we promise you there's seriously, bro. Yeah, there's serious issues with this software. Nope. No, it it 100% works. And And you know, we were even like, "Maybe it's because nobody has their machines on as long as we do." And he's like, "No, I have a friend that has a laundry mat that that never turns his machine off." And we're like, "Man," and and I was even like, "David, like, cut the crap. There's something we know we're talking about." And so we finally just ended up selling the machine. But then, you know, Jim Belceto gets in touch with with somebody at American David Fix. I think he knows all those guys. Uh Steven uh Bowen was Steven Bowen. And he's like, I'm going to put Galactic Tank Force in Indisk. So, I'd appreciate your help fixing this thing. And And they did it. They went and fixed all the problems that supposedly weren't there. Right. Both confirming that. Yeah. But the the best part like I mean then David goes on the podcast like he's a hero. Oh, we you know we fixed all the problems. But I thought I thought you said you promised me there weren't any problems. That's so lame. We knew that we knew that we had to get this game working properly because it was going to be at indis. Like that's words out of his mouth and we're like right. What do you What benefit is it for you to make up issues on a game, right? Like there's just zero like logic to it. So for them to call you out for that being it's just so dumb on so many levels. Well, he's a he's a salesman and that's what that's what he was doing. He was he was trying to sell it and tell people there was no problem. I mean the classic snake oil salesman uh Well, it worked out really well for them, man. American Pinball now part of the top three pinball producers of of the entire nation, right? I've seen Cuphead. So Oh, you have? Yeah. Oh, I mean obviously so my my worry with Cuphead is that they're just contractually going to try to get it out the door and that it's just going to be a huge broken broken piece of of trash, but that's like a lot of their game. So how would you know the difference? Concern. I think it would also be I I would be I want to see if it actually gets released. But the thing that makes me the most sad and upset I guess about the American Pinball thing is that I offered to help them for free, right? Because I like I have found several of these bugs. I can tell you exactly the circumstances and along with some of the physical hardware stuff, I can tell you how to fix this. And they said, "No, there's nothing wrong. We don't want your help." Do you think the relationship between arcades, the home user, and the manufacturer of pinball machines has changed over the last like 20 to 30 years? Oh, it had to because most of the machines are going to the home user. Mhm. Um, you know, all of these guys have been in the industry forever that, you know, have done customer service and and, you know, designed these machines. I mean, I think they've had to, you know, change change what they're doing just as far as like customer service. I mean, you know, just because I know the guys at Stern, I mean, they've had to hire a lot more customer service people since since they're they're dealing with a lot of people who don't even know you can take the glass off a machine. Right. Right. You had to you used to all of your customer service was tailored to operators, so you could just kind of send them apart knowing that they would know what to do with it. And now you have to not only provide the parts, but the education. And sometimes people think that something is wrong when really something just needs to be adjusted in a setting. Um, so there's it's really a lot more heavily educationbased as well as you know whenever something is a it's a different relationship with the equipment when someone is using it for commercial equipment versus family time. Um, you know, I guess it's kind of it's kind of a leading question because I'm I'm to me it seems that there are pinball companies that are not living in the past, but as the internet is becoming bigger and people are having louder opinions and feedback on games and there are more homebrew people and tinkerers like there's a lot more like feedback that's occurring with the games and how certain companies are handling that feedback seems to vary from company to company, right? Um, oh, big time. Yeah, for sure. Is there is there like a standardized metric of what a company should do for how it handles issues with their pinball machines to a consumer? I think the number one thing they should do is to make sure that they have as few issues as possible before they release the game. And I think that just requires um financial planning beyond what what is expected. And I've never been on a manu on the manufacturing side. So I can't critique what anybody is doing other than time and time again we've seen that it's not enough that the games need some re-engineering or some more play testing before they get released because then once you release the game you've just got a barrage of unhappy customers. and $7 to $15,000 is a crap ton of money for basically everybody. So, it's a very high stakes um situation where you you need to not have those those negative experiences with your customer because it's going to flavor how they feel about you forever. So at that point then you have to really kind of bend over to treat the customer like super excellently because you've [ __ ] up. You've given them something that doesn't fulfill the implicit promise that you had in the sale of that game. What's the price point for when something should work no matter what? Cuz I don't disagree with you. Like my Jaws is warped and they had to send me a replacement playfield. The whole process of getting that validated was so unnecessarily unfun. Like it was so obvious that the game was messed up and that I wasn't a person that was just like confused or delusional about the ball pass being weird. And it's like I'm sending them hold on. There was a massive alarm sound going off right now to let people know that there's going to be ads in 2 minutes. Oops, somebody forgot to turn off streamer bot. Anyways, uh so the playfield was so obviously warped and it was just like come I'm like, I'm sending you pictures with a ruler on it with a light behind it and you can just this the cavernous gap between the ruler is just existing and it's like how did this get out of the out of the [ __ ] factory, you know? And I hear your point where it's just like, well, now Stern's got to suffer a four $5,000 loss or whatever the manufacturing is on the playfield, but as a consumer, it's like, yo, this is a five figure game. It shouldn't have a problem like that. Yeah. Yeah. You take this. I'm going to let the cat outside. Yeah. Our little cat, Kiko, just woke up and decided to come and join the podcast. Good morning, Kiko. Does Kiko play pinball or no? She She does not. She's not a fan of pinball. Is she a tech? I wish. She's tiny and she's cute. Um I don't I don't know what that threshold is and I don't know. you know, sometimes just like weird things happen that you know, maybe that warping happened when it's going from super humid one play, you know, I don't I don't know how that happened and I don't know I don't have a good answer for that in in that situation. And also like you don't want a a blank like you need a populated playfield because it's not your position to have to like reassemble. Can you imagine doing a playfield swap on that? I wouldn't want to. No. No. Especially for games that are complicated as a modern, you know, LCD game. I just it shouldn't you hoping that the consumer knows how to absolutely swap every mechanic on a playfield would be ridiculous. So, yeah, it was it was definitely populated. Um, yeah, but this this has to be so difficult for all the all of the manufacturers, especially Stern who's been doing it forever and has people in that company that have been doing it their whole lives to have this shift from a commercial piece of equipment to something that now, you know, 70 what is like I think 70% of it is home ownership. Yeah, it's crazy. It's amazing. Yeah. But But now and and I used to deal with these customers all the time and and I understand what they're saying. They expect to you're buying this multi,000 game. They expect to open it up and have it work perfectly when in re reality you're buying a very expensive science project and with any pinball machine and the more you play it the more you're going to run into issues you know and there's people that that just don't understand it. So, it part of it education and and I think uh you know Stern's doing a good job with Kyle and and his videos. Kyle, he used to do the great videos for Marco and and now you know he's he's super busy and doesn't have the time to do them as much as he did at Marco. Uh but the ones he's doing now are great. Like recently he did one about uh rebuilding flippers and the mechanics of that. Why you do it? When do you do it? Um, and it's it's just going to take a lot of education uh to to teach homeowners like how how to care for these things. It's, you know, it's not like an automobile. I've heard that a lot of them that would complain to me when I was selling parts. They're like, "Well, my car doesn't break down that much." Well, I was like, "Well, you're not throwing steel ball bearings at your car either, right?" You know, so any mechanical system is going to have wear and tear on it to a certain degree, for sure. And I think some of this is like um like what we experienced on our DND premium but not our D&D Pro. The orbit path would frequently send the ball straight down the middle. I mean it's a simple adjustment of one screw moving moving that ball guy just slightly and it's a very easy very quick fix. But if it, you know, we didn't have the experience to know that this is what the problem was and this is how to easily fix it. You know, if we were brand new to pinball, this was our first machine and be like, man, every time I make that orbit, the ball just goes straight down the middle. This isn't fun. Um, and then I'd get on Pinside and type about how this game sucks. And because the ball is always going down the middle or contact Stern and tell them your game's broken and then they're trying to try to explain to you that you don't need to send your playfield back and then it's just a simple adjustment on a on a piece of metal. Right. Right. And then they have to like sus out what's what. Is this a real problem? Is this not a real problem? Um so I I think there's just a lot of catchup to be done with the with the home user or the inexperienced user, right? Um you know, we're still learning new crap every day. It's very much like, you know, I see you have a a whole a wall of keyboards there. We have some over here, too. Uh, some Moogs and what have you. Um, it people understand when they buy one of these keyboards, if they don't know what they're doing, it's not going to sound right. You'll make some cool sounds, but it's not going to be, you know, Rayman Zurich, you know, you're not going to automatically be knocking it out of the park. And but people, the consumer already gets that, right? But with pinball machines, it's different. It's like, "Oh, no. It's just supposed to work, you know, and it's it's very much it's kind of like a keyboard. You have to know how to use it. You have to and and with a with a pinball machine, you have to know how to maintain it or just don't ever play it and just make it, you know, just have it look beautiful in your home, which there are people that buy. I don't understand these people, by the way, but there are people that buy these games and then they sell them on pinside six, seven months later and they have like 25 plays on I think I saw somebody on Pinball Marketplace sell a game and he was like, "I have a Jaws with 25 plays on it." And I'm just like, "How I would like I feel like I would put 25 plays on it by accidentally walking past it and bumping the start button." Like, how do you not have more than 25 plays on your game, you know? Uh, hold on, Tenious. I'll get to that. Tenacious is asking about how to learn how to fix pinball machines. And I think that's an interesting question, but I want to present a bigger picture item here, and that's something that I'm trying to do with the podcast. There's no like definitive written rules for a contract of what you're getting into buying a pinball machine. There's no written rules about what your machine should be, you know, in terms of its condition when you get it, whether it's the state of the code, the state of the hardware, and that something that is undeniably awful about the internet is that the toxicity of of being upset about a thing and then targeting somebody for that aggression is like out of control in the pinball community. And like I this is gonna piss off a lot of people, but I'm like and I do talk about D and D. I've met I've I've been critical of games, but like the toxicity that doesn't have a constructive way of sol of a solution has got to stop. Like the people making these games don't feel good going into work and then having to figure out or design a new game when everyone is just telling them that they're [ __ ] awful and that they've ruined their life because their [ __ ] ball isn't going around in orbit correctly. Like that's that's so unfair and it's so not going to help for better pinball in the future. Yeah. Well, it's uh it's not just pinball. It's every every hobby is like that now. Yeah. You know, it really Well, it's it's just because now it's a double-edged sword, but everybody has a voice now. Everybody can create a Facebook account, a Twitter account, you know, Instagram account, and everybody has a voice, and now we're able to hear them. Yeah. So it's not just a pinball thing, but you're uh and the customer is always right. right. Um so I Yeah, but I mean I like I like this mission you're on and and I think pinball's a good place to start because it is such a a niche hobby. Well, and I think that that same thing goes true for anything. Don't ever criticize. Don't present me with a problem unless you have an offer of some type of solution. I think people have the right to be angry, but how you channel that is different. And there's a valid point of being frustrated to buying a $10,000 pinball machine and having something so broken on it that you cannot enjoy it. There should be a solution for that. But if the company's working with you and they're going through the customer service stuff, like then why are you going on pin side saying that XYZ is like the worst thing in the world and [ __ ] this game and I'm never going to support them again and like it's just I get it. Like, but like go talk to chat GPT and and get your aggression out and like then have it reformat it to be friendly. Hey chat GPT, can you make all these toxic things I said friendly so I can post them on the internet? That's like 10 seconds worth of time. There you go. Do it. Um, all right. So, we're in 2018. You opened Electric Bat. No. Uh we're let's talk about your uh broadcast tournament broadcast because you have an amazing team. We talked a little bit about Serge, someone who is just like an absolute [ __ ] natural at providing really detailed commentary, rules, information, just like all of that. Where the hell did he come from and how did you get into doing the tournament broadcasts? So, we we found out we were going to host the Arizona State Pinball Championship. And this day and age, I was we were both like, you we have to stream this. I mean, that's what uh last year. Yeah, this was recently. Oh my god. This was last Yeah, last year. And so I had, you know, I I guess, you know, I had like a good like eight months to put together the rig and I got so much help from great people. Tom, Carl, uh, a backhand pinball, a market at backhand pinball, um, aimless pinball, Matt and Amy, and and I know you you hear these stories all the time from streamers like I got so much Oh, and of course Jamie from not wor from the JBS show. Yeah. Yeah. But um, so we we slowly got and slowly got all this equipment together because man, it is so expensive. You You have a rig. you you know I mean it's thousands of dollars for the aluminum is the cheapest part. It's everything you got to screw onto the damn thing that costs so much. Exactly. Good cameras. Um a good interface or a mixing board. Great mics. Um we like the headsets cuz you know you have a lot of people who aren't used to commentating. You want to make sure they have their uh consistency. Yeah. With the the mic close to their mouth. So, we we pulled and and there were a lot of headaches uh with with streaming, especially with a wireless rig. A wired rig is easy. A wireless rig is a is a struggle until you like dial it in and get it right. And it takes time and a bunch of streams. So, um just we we just doing that. That's how we started streaming. Um, we we are not able to stream our league night because anywhere from 100 and 120 people show up every Tuesday. We don't we don't have room to move a rig around. So, we just That's awesome that you have 120 people show up to play pinball. Yeah. So, that's it's crazy. We're still blown away by that. Um, and so we started streaming our finals. We We do we do a six week series and then on on that sixth week. So we do the the tournaments every Tuesday on on the sixth Wednesday is when the the top 24 battle it out. And I was like, "Oh, well, we can stream that." So we have a a stream every six weeks. We have a stream the last Sunday of the month, which is our classics tournament. And then we do some other little stream like some bells and chime stuff, you know, stuff that's not going to be packed. We actually have room to set up a a mix position and uh move the rig around. So when we when Serge, our buddy Serge, heard that we were going to do State, he was like, "Please, I would love to commentate." And And I like hanging out with Serge. And I was like, "Yeah, let's do it. We'll get in the booth. We'll have a good time. you know, we'll talk some [ __ ] We had no idea what to expect. He This is I mean, we It's like It's like an encyclopedia of pinball. Yeah. You found the natural at it. He blew our minds and it it made for like great clips for uh social media so people could learn stuff. I was learning stuff about pinball machines. I've been playing for 20 years. Uh and a lot a lot of the the chat has said the same thing. They just they tune in to uh you know get his knowledge. He has a special type of um memory savant Mhm. ability that um I have not seen. So on on his on his birthday this year didn't he he memorized pi to how many positions? He memorized pi to 100 digits as a birthday present to himself. Yeah. And he sent us a video of him doing it. Mhm. And then he told me the the technique that he used to do it, which was, you know, there's like several layers of complicatedness for how his mind is working. And he quickly he thought of four. He translated the numbers into letters, but not A is one, B is two. It's it was some other thing that he made up. So that way he could combine the numbers or the letters that represented each of those numbers into four-digit words. So then he only had to memorize 25 a sequence of 25 four-digit words. This is this is brilliant. This is like in his brain and then translate it back to the numbers and then state it. So normally if someone is reciting pi they're going to say like 3.14159 so on. But he's doing it like 3.1 4 one like you can see him doing the but it works. It works. So I need to ask him how he is um how he's doing uh maybe he's doing something similar with pinball rules that that I can learn. Oh, and on top of that it was memory palace. So the location of each of those for people who know about memorization techniques, the location of each of those words within an imagined um real space. So for example, you would go through your home and where your kitchen sink is, that would be a word. Where your microwave is, that's a different word. And And tying the words to objects that are in spaces that is I mean you're there's all kinds of This sounds like somebody went and did a bunch of peyote and came back and tried to explain this concept. This is insane. But like in the best possible way. That's how I would do it. He is the opposite. And so, uh, yeah. Wow. That's fascinating. Anyway, he's he is an amazing uh amazing Yeah. person. and just hanging out after Tuesday night tournaments in our office with like Serge and John Choppel who was our um our other tech tech the third tech just talking about you know various conspiracy theories or reality theories multiverse oh he's so much fun after hours of electric bat sound pretty amazing but I you know I'm glad he showed up and started uh commentating because it helped us out it it set a vibe it set a even when he's not there. There's There's a there's a surge vibe and even though me or whoever's with me commentating, we don't have the the knowledge uh of the rules that he does, but it's it it has a certain vibe that makes the stream interesting. And um and I and I really think ju just the same way that that some places will pull in streamers like like Tom Graph or or Mark Patnod to I I think it's time to start thinking about having a consistent commentator. I mean this it's just a no-brainer that that's what you do in sports, you know. It keeps the viewer locked in and and really helps a lot because I know we've seen especially like with like major tournaments. There are great people that that come and and sit in great tournament players, but there's so much dead air at at many of them that makes the the pinball um uninteresting for the the lay person. And And I think it you have to have that commentary to explain what's going on. And And that's going to bring uh new players into uh pinball cuz they're going to see the stream and go, "Where can I do this?" Yeah. I mean, I think I've seen what is it uh Jack, you know, Danger had posted that the the pinball is now being broadcast on ESPN and like late night hours or something like that. Like so, you know, it's having someone that can fill that dead time. What's that? It was Stern did have some events on the Oat Show a long time ago, so I don't know if they're just maybe replaying that stuff. Yeah. I don't know. Do you know about the O show? No. What's that? You can dodge a wrench. You could dodge a ball. The The Oo is a ESPN channel. So like ESPN has ESPN, then they have ESPN plus. And they may have some other ones, but one of them is called the Oo. ESPN. The Oo. And they have super cool stuff like cornhole. They have cornhole rock skipping, air guitar, pinball. Yeah. This is This is what we're lumped in with. Well, it's a start. Let's go with that, right? Like it's better than no pinball broadcast. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Um I want to Tenacious Go ahead. Tenacious asked a question a while ago and I I really don't want to forget his question, but he was talking about where do you learn to repair a pinball machine and uh I have thoughts on that, but there isn't really any that I'm aware of like resource that is just like here's a technical handbook on how to troubleshoot basic mechanical issues or how to replace MOSFETs or any of that. like where do you think the best knowledge comes from for pinbell repair? I think that there are pretty good YouTube videos for how to do those specific things. How to rebuild a flipper, how to solder, how to do those things. But I don't think that's the hard part about pinball repair. And that's the part that we're always having to explain to people when they're asking us, how do we learn to do what you do? Hey, I want to work for you. Hey, I want to be your tech. Can I just follow you around for a while? the the actual physical act of fixing the machines is not that difficult. But knowing what it is that you need to fix is where the hard part comes in. So that I mean that's logic troubleshooting and then it just comes with experience. So I always say the best way to learn to repair is a pinball machine a pinball machine is to buy an old pinball machine because you're going to have to fix it and then over time you're just going to get more and more experience. But I don't think I'm Kale and I have been trying to think about this for a long time. How we can teach people to do so much of our job so we could have some time to do other things. Sure. And it's just I I am not interested in taking someone on and trying to teach them because I don't have that many hours in the day because we're already doing all these other things. So you really need to learn to assess accurately what the problem is. For example, you've got a target that's not working. This is an easy one. You have a target that's not working. Not always. No, I'm just saying this is an easy example to give. Um if a if you got a target that's not working, so you look at the target. Okay. Well, maybe you have a wire desoldered from one of the from one of the lugs, but if not, then what? Well, like what Kayla is saying, there's probably a daisy chain and that wire is broken somewhere back down the line. Um, but if you didn't know to look for that, then you wouldn't know. And it could also be like broken contact. I mean, there's several different things that could be wrong that have the same symptom. That happened on our Ghostbusters specifically. There There was a target that wasn't working, but the it was soldered. Couldn't Couldn't figure out what was up. Figured out they had daisy. Probably that plastic reinforcement that bla breaks off of it that no longer holds the target up cuz that thing breaks on mine every two goddamn seconds. Oh, you do. You do have a Ghostbusters. I love that game. I have a bag of replacement plastics for that because it is frequently I have the stronger strings uh springs on mine so the return pull on it is a little beefy and I think that that's putting undue stress on it. But if you put a little piece of foam underneath that plastic, it acts as a shock absorber. Just pro tip. Anyways, sorry. Yeah. But anyway, well, stuff like that, knowing where to look. But that took us that took us almost a week. We were like puzzled. What is going on? And then we we found This was also a very long time ago. Yeah. Yeah, it was a long time ago. Repair pros now. This is not amateur tower anymore. Right. Right. and and we found there was some other part that the the solder uh failed and then there was a loose wire but and it was still sitting there so it didn't like look disconnected but you had to like physically pull on every single wire on down the line to know that this was broken and it was affecting this over here. Sure. Yeah. But I I think you really just need to own a machine and play it and break it and then fix it because there are there's so many things that can go wrong with a pinball machine and then there are so many different systems. Uh and and they all they all have their own quirks and so there's no there's no real school. I mean, the stuff Kyle did, you know, to bring him up again, the stuff he did on on that's still on the Marco YouTube channel, all that stuff's amazing. Just sit down and and watch that stuff. And even though he might not be talking about the exact problem you might be dealing with, you're going to learn something and figure out problem solving. Yeah. Like, oh, this is how drop targets work. I didn't realize that. And then you nailed it on the problem solving thing. I think learning to follow like the flow of power, too. Like just learning how a pinball machine works will help you break down a lot of those problems. Like power comes in, where does it go first? Like, well, it's going to go to the power supply and then it's going to be distributed to all the different driver boards and you can learn how those different systems interact with each other and then how they feed down to the playfield and then figure out if it's a mechanical or an electrical issue. And you know, like you said, getting an older game like a system 9 or a system 11 game, like that's a great learning platform cuz you know, you could ground the ground the transistors on the board to actually fire the transistor or fire the solenoids. I mean, there's so much learning that goes into a simpler system, a simpler game. What would your suggestion be? What game system 11? Because those relays, those relays will drive you nuts. But on a like a classic ballet or an early um I think classic valleys, classic sterns are the the easiest thing to start like if you are a true intro level person. It's got big components. Everything is nicely separated. You've got your solenoid driverboard. like the stuff is is simplified. Um you the play field is generally going to be it's one level so you don't have to take off a whole bunch of things to realize that you've screwed something up. Um my that's my go-to. Yeah. All right. I agree. Don't get a 90s DMD because you'll be fig trying to figure out why your 5 volts dipping every [ __ ] 30 seconds and your game restarts every time you flip it. that one time you drop a a little tiny minuscule dot of solder on one of the um boards underneath the playfield and takes you a long time to figure out how you shorted something. Don't Don't let your solder roll around on your on your boards for that surprise later on in life where you're trying to figure out the mystery of why your game's not working and then suddenly does. Um okay, I'm trying to I'm looking at my notes here. I think that uh that pretty much comes up. It covers all the operational stuff. What are you guys thinking of for the future of Electric Bat? Where do you want to go with what you've already built? Th this is this is it, right? I mean, this is a great place. I'm not trying to imply that there's not room to grow, but I mean, you didn't expect doing the the podcast. You didn't expect doing the um you know, live tournaments. I mean, there's a lot of surprises that come along. Yeah, I think this is it just sustaining what we have going on here. Um, you know, we did we did have a second location. You know, it wasn't as big as the the main electric bat, but uh you know, we teamed up with the guys from Yucka Tap Room and went in on another bar with them uh 2 hours away from here. Um, and it if it it was fine. The whole thing was profitable, but if you if as an operator, you cannot build a scene if you are not on site. You know, the the reason the the Tempe location is so popular cuz we're there every day. We get to know the people. We We have a fun time with them at tournaments, multiple tournaments a month. We go to other arcades and play with these same folks. Um that's I mean, it's just business 101. You have to be on scene. You have to you, you know, it's kind like when you go eat at a restaurant and you can tell the manager's not there. Sure. You know, it's everything's haywire, right? And but you're like the lifeblood of the location. I feel like every arcade, the people that own it, like they're not just like owners. They're like involved in the day-to-day more than a lot of other businesses. Yeah, I think that's good advice for any business anywhere. But I think what that points to is that most people would be like, "Oh, I want to expand to all these different locations." We had offers to open in Hawaii. We said no. There some people wanted us to open in Texas. We said no. And instead of expanding and having more locations, we closed one down because we wanted to focus on Yeah. We closed down a successful location because it's just it's two and a half hours away. That's a lot of driving. M um we just wanted to make this Tempee location our primary our really our only like it it is with Kale and I doing everything that's a lot. It's a lot. Oh, it sounds like your day-to-day is is busy to say the least. I mean you guys put a lot of yourself into the location, but also like I mean look at the response. Like electric bat is referred to as like pretty much like the best arcade in the nation from from what it seems like on the Instagrams. I haven't been there yet. I'm so excited to come. But uh yeah, I just you know what you've put into it really shows. Thank you. We appreciate it. Um I do want to chat. There's a whole slew of people here. I know I've been a little less uh active on reading the chat questions than normal just because I mean you guys obviously have podcast experience. We got stories on stories here, but if there's anything that anybody wants to ask Rachel right now, send it. This is a good opportunity. Um are there any events and stuff going on in the world uh coming up that electric bat that you guys want to talk about? I know you guys said that you got a tournament tonight, but uh yeah, every every Tuesday at 6:30 is our league night. Every sun the last Sunday of every month is our classics tournament. It's kind of cool. It's a bounty knockout tournament. Have Have you played in one of those? I have played the knockout tournaments with cards. I think it's called critical hit. I haven't played bounty. Oh yes, that's cool. Um this is a little different. I didn't Chewy like invent this. our friend Shuy that runs this tournament. He invented it, but he has uh electric bat poker chips. And when you enter the tournament, it's it's $6 to enter the tournament. So, you know, $1 goes to the IFPA and then a $5 chip, the $5 covers your $5 chip. And it's a it's a four strike knockout. So, let's say let's say you in in a round, you play four player rounds. Um, if you knock out somebody, you take their chip. So, you just you just won $5. If you give them their fourth strike and you're the winner of that game, you get their chip. Can you buy another chip to continue to play? You cannot buy another chip. And nobody can take the chip you earned. They can only take your original chip. Right. And And people love this because uh you know, you don't have to win the tournament to win something. There There are people that win 20 bucks and don't get into the you know, the final four. Um I've been all the way to the final four and haven't won any money, you know. So it's it it brings a whole another aspect to it. And some other arcades have uh we talk about on the podcast this uh this way of playing. And some other arcades are doing it now. Um, I know in Texas they're they're doing a bounty knockout now and a lot of other places. It's important that if you want to do it that you set it up to not be Swiss. It needs to be balanced. Um, otherwise if it's Swiss then all of you can sandbag and it affects chip distribution. So, no Swiss on a bounty knockout. There you go. No Swiss. You heard it. Uh, for people that are afraid of competition play, what would you what would you suggest to someone who's interested in pinball and sees a tournament and it's like, man, that looks like fun, but I'm not a good enough player or like I'm afraid of playing with strangers and stuff like that. What What would you say to someone like that? We see this all the time at the uh at the arcade where there there are people who play all day long and and they're blowing up the machine. And I mean this always always happens. And I'm like, why do you not play in a tournament? And it's the same thing. Oh, I'm not that good yet. And I'm like, you just got a billion on Godzilla. What do you What do you mean? But even if you only got a hundred thousand, you know, like, right? Uh this is when you play with tournament players, that's where you really learn to play pinball. You're not learning by yourself. when when you playing with these tournament players, people that have been playing for 10, 20, 30 years, you're gonna just watching them, watching the way they stand, the way they they approach the machine, how they play different games. And most importantly, I've never been to a tournament where people aren't like really open about their strategy. They people pinball people love to talk about strategy and pinball and and how this particular copy at this arcade plays compared to this other copy at another arcade. I mean just it's it's such a fun group and and you you just need you need to you're not going to win the first tournament you get into. Like let's say you're just getting into pinball and go sign up for a tournament. Your Your first tournament let's see where you you end up. you know, there might be like 20, 30 people, you know, and then the next day or the next week or whenever they hold the tournaments, just make sure you're like getting a little bit better to where you're getting up to the top. Don't worry about winning a tournament. And And most importantly, people, they've told me this like, "Well, I'm not very good. I'm I'm worried that I'm going to embarrass myself." No. No. That never happens. You know, as a tournament player, can you think of any time where you've ever thought like, "Oh, that person should go home." Like don't tell me when they were here they got a very low score on Black Pyramid. I can't believe it. Like really your only goal entering a tournament I think should be to have a good time. That's the only reason you should really be doing anything that you don't have to do right. This should be to have fun. So I don't even try and get like better and better each time. I like it's cool whenever I do well or make finals and things like that, but I want to be sure that I ended the day happier than when I started the day. And so if I had a good time, I won the tournament, right? And we we talk about this on the podcast all the time. Um I think all pinball tournaments should be this way. It instead of like a you know, not like a major like indis or something like that, but the casual weekly tournaments, it's really more about people than it is about pinball. It's It's about people getting together, you know, getting away from the screen. It's It's a it's a great uh you know, third space where, you know, it's not home, it's not work, where you just hang out with people and talk to people. And the best part about it is you you know, you're you're going to play like four to five rounds of pinball. So, you're going to be forced to hang out with some people you don't know for a whole pinball game. Yeah. And And it's it's a great way and and we've seen it happen at the electric bat. Like all of these people become like really good friends and they they hang out outside of the arcade and and that's that's really what it's all about. It it's really all about people. It's It's not this pinball. I mean, come on. This people are way more important than pinball machines. We're about to do some remote control car racing with a bunch of people from the arcade. And you know, whenever I do RC car stuff, Kale has to like dummy it down. So, yeah, put I put a governor on it because I like I start spinning the You're gonna be doing donuts instead of racing, right? But it's just about having a good time. Sure. Your point about people not being on their phones is so true. I mean, I feel like anytime I've been in a tournament or anytime I've gone to like a pinball event, you know, like people are engaging with each other and like it seems so obvious, but like that's such a rare thing in the time that we are. I'm like I'm always on my phone. I'm just like, it's such a bad thing. And being involved in a hobby where it forces you to be social and you're not even aware of it is like nice. So, uh, awesome. Well, again, thank you, Rachel. Thank you, Kale, for taking time to come on here and chat and talk about what it's like to to run a business that is also a passion and a hobby. Uh, I do have a question that I feel like I need to ask every time. Uh, we'll get to that. Johnny Button wants to know what your top three are. But before that, I noticed there's a few games missing on your list. And I'd like to ask you out of these three games, which you would think to add to this lineup. Raven. Someone offered me a Raven for a very, very low price and I said, "No, thank you." What? What did you just say? What did you just say? Excuse me. A bigger name. A bigger name online, too. Gotta go. We can't. No. No. Raven. No Raven. Holy [ __ ] I know. I'm I'm sorry. I You know, I didn't mean for it to end this way, but it's it's us. It's not you. I know. I know that. All right. All right. Back to Johnny's question. Top three pinball machines for you, any time, period. And it could be current. I know that this question sucks for everybody because you're like, man, there's so many amazing games out there. How could you even begin to do that? You You do your top three and then I'll do mine. Dungeons and Dragons, Joker Poker. And it's amazing that I'm still even on this podcast. Um, my third favorite, man. Do you know what my third favorite is? Uh, you know, I don't I definitely Dungeons and Dragons and Joker Poker. Joker Poker is great. Beyond that, it's probably changes too much to to matter. So, a rotating third. Mhm. Right now it's Godzilla because there's one at home and I'm playing it a lot. Yeah. Mine uh mine would be uh number one, Attack from Mars. That's just such a Yeah, that's it's such a great game and it's fun for people who have never played pinball before. The theme is wacky. The call gave my Attack from Mars to a family friend that's got kids just so that they could have a pinball machine. And it's such a great game for kids, right? And if you don't know what you're doing, just smash the saucer. That's it. So satisfying. You get you can get like two billion points and you you feel like you've really and you have done something incredible. That's That's my number one. I love that game. Um number two is Joker Poker. That was one of Rachel's picks. I I love games that the where the rules change from ball to ball and and there aren't many like that. So that's that's why that that is a great game. And um number three, this is this is going to be a weird one. Uh it's X-Men and because I know I know shout out to Jack. Yeah, the the code, of course, we all know it's not there, but a a fabulous fabulous update is about to to come. It a gamechanging update. Um but what I love about that is Jack really pushed the envelope on that one. Um the what he did I mean you you just you never saw Stern doing anything like that and I think he he really broke the mold with it. Uh and it's going to allow designers if they choose to really do something wacky. Yeah. King I totally agree shots style. Jack Danger is like the gotle of uh you know the modern day taking the risk to do stuff that's a little different. I mean, you know, Stern hates wide bodies and hates like nonItalian flipper layouts, but you know, he was able to convince uh, you know, Gary or whatever the powers that be that were managing that project to do something a little different. I hate the hate about how this danger room was stolen from Thunderbirds or whatever. I mean, iteration is a part of pinball. Every goddamn game has flippers and slingshots. Like, there's no problem in taking a concept that was put into a game and making it work for a totally different layout. the rest of the game on that. Gold Wings. Thank you, Joe. Yeah, Gold Wings is such a different game in 90% of the rest of the capacity. But yeah, but you have to get your inspiration from somewhere. You know, it happens in movies. It happens in music. You know, nobody's coming up with something truly truly original. You know, you're taking bits and parts of of things you've seen. Absolutely. Great list. Great list. Uh I have one last question before we say uh goodbye. And this is for people that are interested in owning arcades or getting into streaming and stuff like that. It's something I was really scared about and I'm curious your thoughts on it. Do you play pinball? And how has running a business based around it changed your like love for the hobby? How do you not burn out on something that you like love and started because you love it? I actually don't play pinball that often because we're fixing pinball, cleaning pinball. Having the games at home has really given me an opportunity to play it. So, it's not that I didn't play it because I was burnt out, but if I'm at the arcade and playing a game, somebody's probably going to come up to me and tell, you know, maybe I need to do something to some game over here or there's other things that I need to be doing that to make the business run better. Um, rather than just kind of screwing around playing pinball. So, I play during league and I play during other tournaments and now I play at home. But, I would still say that I I love it just as much. I really enjoy playing just as much, but I don't necessarily have the opportunity, which is weird have now that, you know, I own how many pinball like I don't know how many pinball machines we own. A lot 60 50 lots. Yeah. Um, so for me, it it hasn't it I don't resent pinball and I don't love it any less, but I don't play it as much as many of our players do. Right. And And I think just us being able to do this together uh really helps with with burnout. You know, we we push each other. Um we learn from each other and it it really helps just in any kind of business to have a a business partner or spouse or significant other that is on is on the same page and wants to learn with you. That That is uh that is great cuz everything is harder when uh when you're by yourself. That's true. That's amazing amazing words. Uh and good words to end on. I again thank you so much. Your marriage has created one of the best pinball arcade havens in in the world, if not certainly North America. Uh thank you and thank you everybody for watching. Um I guess Yeah, you already did the shout outs. I guess we're good. We can do the raid thing now. It's time to raid, right? Yeah, let's raid somebody. Let's do it. Uh yeah. Uh everybody go check out Electric Bat. It's in Tempe, Arizona. Somebody asked where you guys were. If you have if you're traveling or if you're in the vicinity where you want to drive 4 hours, which is pretty much the distance from most major airports out here for Tempe. Yeah. Go. We're 10 minutes from the airport. You can take a robot Whimo from the airport to the arcade. Yeah. There you go. Ride you a robot to an arcade. Yeah. And if you want to anybody in the chat wants to keep up with our shenanigans, uh Instagram's a place to do it. We're always posting all kind of cool stuff on there and letting people know what's going on. So just electric bat arcade on Instagram. We also have a Discord which is very cool and a lot of uh pinball folks are in there chatting about everything pinball. They even talk about video games. Uh if you go to our website, electricbatarcade.com, click on the podcast tab and then there there's a link to join the Discord. It's free. Amazing. Yeah, everything's free. All of our stuff's free. We don't monetize any of this. We make money at the arcade. And as someone asked earlier, if alcohol or or pins paid for it, it's oneird alcohol, two-thirds pens. So, you can run a business off arcades. There you go. It's proof right here. That's right. All right, let's go see who's here. Uh, I will say Rachel and Kale, stick around just for a second so I can say thank you again offline and we can talk about all these silly chatters and the silly things they said. Uh, in the meantime, it's midday and weird. Let's go raid everybody. Bye bye.