Welcome to the Spinners Lit Pinball Podcast. I'm your host, Spencer. And tonight's episode is episode 47, Spring Thaw. And with me is guys in the round table, Dan. Hey, what's up? And Engineer Mark. What's up? Hey, guys. Been about a month and got a lot going on. Spring thaw, warm Carl Weathers, pinball shows. What have you guys been up to? What do you got going? Well, what we got going on in Reno is we got a tournament happening tomorrow at Press Start. We have 30 people signed up. I'm hoping everybody can make it. Our player limit is 32 players. so there were a couple people that had to drop out and we're hoping we can get maybe two more that want to just join just by walking through the door but it's going to be a real fun tournament we're going to have eight rounds it's going to be a 7-5-3-1 scoring format which is going to be basically one game per round and we're going to have fun playing a variety of games and try to get as many as we can in that lineup And I know that, Dan, you're coming down here tomorrow. Yeah, we've got like five guys, I think, who are going to be rolling up to Reno from Sacramento. So, yeah, we should have a really, really good turnout. I'm excited. And that's a first, too, because we never had anybody come down for a Reno tournament from Sacramento. So we're excited that you can come down and join us. Yeah, I think I joined in one of your guys' Tuesday nights. And that was pretty cool. And so, yeah, once we heard about this, it was sort of like, you know, it's not super convenient on a Sunday, but you know what? It doesn't seem like it's anything that I would want to miss. You're right about that. We kind of schedule it that way just because it gives you enough time to come down from Sacramento and people have things they're doing in the morning usually. So it's just kind of the right time to have it later afternoon. Now, we have no idea how late it's going to go to. But generally, when we did the Tuesday night tournaments, they lasted an hour and a half for four rounds. So if everything goes smoothly, we're going to have probably no more than four hours for eight rounds of pinball, depending on the people we have. So it's going to be it all is deciding on that. And hopefully we don't have any technical problems or things that will slow things down. But we know that always happens in tournaments. It's pinball. Yeah, that's pinball. Right. And we're hoping that we'll have all those games up to par by today and tomorrow. I know Kevin and Jim are really working on it to get those games tip-top shape so that they're ready to go for Sunday. But it's going to be a fun time. It's our first weekend tournament that we've had since COVID, before we had the shutdown and everything. So it's going to be a nice time to hang out with friends and have a great time. So looking forward to it. Yeah, the lineup is unbelievable. The facility is best for this kind of thing. We're going to have a really good time. So if you are in Reno or Reno adjacent, you're not going to hear this until after we're done. But you should definitely check in at Press Start to see what kind of activities they have going on because it's super, super fun. And it's real low cost of entry, too. So the stakes are pretty low. The competition's fierce. But everybody's laid back about it. I think it's well worth your time. It is still an IFPA-sanctioned tournament. So it is up, of course, in the public area of IFPA site. And you can get Whoppers. Actually, you might get about maybe six if you win first place. So it's not bad for just one tournament. And like I said, we have a variety of games. If you want to check it out, you can go on Pinball Map and then just search for Press Start Reno. And it will have all the games listed in there. And we're going to try to have a variety with some EMs and older solid states, some that you've never played before, like Electra and Mystic. Those probably will be in the lineup. And then, of course, we got some new ones that we just got in. We got a Godzilla Premium, and we also received an Avengers Premium that just came in about a couple weeks ago. So it's exciting that we have new games as well, and we keep rotating it in and out. I know that pretty soon we're going to get the Funhaus 2.0, but it probably won't be until after Golden State because that is coming. And, of course, we're going to be talking about that later in the show. But it's going to be a lot of fun, and I'm excited to see this, because if we do get 30 people or 32, it'll be the largest tournament that we've had in Reno with that many people. The Avengers. That's the Infinity Quest, right? That's correct. It's the Avengers Infinity Quest, which is a great shooting game. Yeah, it is. What did you guys take out? So let's see. We took out Star Wars, which we used to have in there, and Guardians. But we now have 19 machines there. So we added two of those games and kept everything else there. We still have Heist as well. So if you ever wanted to get a chance to play a P3 Multimorphic, it's there as well. Is everything going to be in the tournament field, or are we doing selected titles? It's going to be selected titles for the main reason so that there's space between the machines so that nobody is crowded together when they're playing. We prefer to have it so that every other machine will be in that lineup. But we might switch it, though, after four rounds and then have different games in there. And, of course, it all depends. If something goes wrong, we're going to have to have something substitute it. Guns N' Roses right now is not working the way it should. We got some problem with the board. It's showing up on the screen, and it's kind of distracting for players, and it was not working really well last night when I tried it out. We had a friend of mine, Michael LaFrida, who now lives in Missouri, but his hometown was Reno, and he had his wedding. And after the reception, they had a party over at Press Start. So that was fun, and I got to play all the games and see how they were. and hang out with people from the reception. It was a really fun time. Man, I'm disappointed. I'm counting on that Guns N' Roses to be some easy points for me. I know. Maybe it will get working, but right now it's not working as it should be, and it probably is not tournament ready. Well, you have Cactus Canyon. We have Cactus Canyon. We have an issue with one of the switches, which we might not put in there, which makes the scoring very unfair. but there's a bonus as far as the combo shots. There's a switch that gets stuck. So it goes, did it, did it, did it, did it, did it. And it keeps going and you can get like 20 million. So it's probably not going to be in there unless they fix that switch. Yeah. Cause Dan just almost rolled that game over. We were up. He was, he was crushing it on that game. Yeah. Good game. It worked when I was beating it. It did. It was legit. You did. Don't be acting like there's no malfunction. That was a game of my life. You probably broke it, man. You were killing that thing. No, that game was working perfectly when you were playing it down. But when I played it and got that high score, which I think you still are beyond me, but it was because of the combo switch was stuck. I don't even think I'm up there anymore. I think several people have just blown by me. There's some super legit players up in Reno. You guys have got it going on these days. We have some good players, yeah. And what I think is really awesome is we get a lot of new players. So the more new players we get, if they can rack up five tournaments under their belt, then they can be then rated in the IFPA points for the Whoppers. So that's always a plus. It's a half a point for each person who is rated to add to that tournament value. Well, I don't want to alarm you, but I'm bringing Rick. I know. I saw what his ranking was. And we're bringing Alex. Yep. And Mike Hosier, he's no slouch. No, he's a good player. That's what's great about it. We got some good players. Shannon's super solid. Me and Shannon are any given Sunday guys. So we're bringing some killers and me. So, you know, Sactown, Elk Grove, we're coming to represent Folsom. Bring it into Burbs, suburbs in the house. I have a feeling that you're going to do really well, but it's going to be good competition. We got some good Reno players, too, so it'll be awesome. Yeah, it's going to be a great one. If you can be there or if you do listen to us and you're going to be there, we can't wait to see you. It's going to be fantastic. And again, I'm sure we'll be talking about it on the next show, but if you live in the Reno area, join in. It's good fun. Right on. Yeah, no, that's – well, if people show up there and they're like, oh, let's see what they call it, you know, have a drink with friends in the bar. Yeah, they've got these cool video games and pinball machines, and people go, oh, there's a tournament. It's like, oh, I'm going to get in on this, you know, or I want to learn more about it. You know, you open it up for people to go, oh, okay. You guys have a league? You have tournaments? That's cool. And that's what's great about Tuesday nights. Tuesday nights allows that to happen where we have it weekly. So we always get new players and the curiosity of people wanting to play and say, hey, how does this work? A lot of people become really good players after they play a couple of tournaments because they start getting dedicated to being a better player. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing with competition. pinball is I think a lot of people are just like, oh, I mean, what a pinball tournament, a pinball league, like, how does that work? It's all random. And it's like, well, the great thing about pinball is, yeah, there's plenty of randomness. There's definitely a, you know, things go your way aspect to it, but there's a lot of skill involved too. And there's a fair amount of strategy, you know, knowing what to shoot for when to shoot, you know, it's a, It's super fun, but at the same time, you don't have to be some sort of lifer or some sort of god-tier player to jump in there and have fun. You might jump in there as a first-timer novice and do way better than you expect. What's really interesting that I've discovered is that there's a fallacy saying that, oh man, if I play in my first tournament and this person always wins, I'm just going to not come anymore. That is not the case. It's actually they want to come back to do even better, maybe not win the whole tournament, but they definitely want to get higher up in the place that they finish by being more competitive and trying their best. And I think that's what's so powerful about it is it doesn't steer away people who are new to the competition scene. They want to try to get better. So that's the nice thing. And we don't have the same person win every week. I mean, just a couple weeks ago, I had the opportunity to win first place finally, which was one of my goals. But it's always different every week. There's always a surprise. So it'll be interesting with this format because of the eight rounds would be definitely a lot longer and it's not a target score. Plus the scoring is not 3-2-1-0. it gives you a little leeway with the 7-5-3-1 scoring. So it'll be interesting to see how it all pans out. The other thing we're going to do is we're going to have people in the groups use Match Play to report the scores instead of having to go right to the tournament director and report the scores and then go, oh, man, how do we finish again? And then have to go back to the machine to see the scores and then come back. This way, you're right at the machine. You put in your results, who came first, second, third, fourth, and then you're done. And then it gets submitted and it goes right into match play. And I think it's going to streamline things a lot easier than having to go and report it to one person and then entering it in the computer. So we'll see how it goes. We've never done that before, so that's something we're going to try to. No, that's a good thing. Well, you make it easy for people. You know, Dan and I have talked about this a lot. You know, in the Capital Quarter League, we see people come in who are brand new and, you know, they're very novice. and within a couple of seasons, you're like, man, they're killing it now. And to watch them grow and become better players and be more involved and enjoying themselves, which is absolute number one. It's like, are you having a good time? Because at the end of the day, that's why we're all doing this. You know, this isn't our job. This is fun. And the other thing is a lot of people that catch the pinball bug end up getting their own machine. Eventually. And then it starts. Yeah. So it's neat. Yeah, man. I don't know if you and I were talking about this, Mark, or maybe you and Dan talked about it. Dan and I talked about it a couple times, sort of. But boutique companies versus homebrew. Because everybody and their mother now is a boutique company, it seems. I think we should have, like, not a requirement, but there should be some guidelines. Like, you have to ship X number of games before you can really be considered a boutique pinball company. You know, if you guys... You know. Let me interrupt real quick. Okay. So let's quantify this, right? Yeah, yeah. What is a homebrew pinball machine? Well, something you make like in your garage or basement or whatever, and you're not a manufacturing company, you make one or two. Or like Riot Pinball, they made, what, six or eight of their first title, and they made them, you know, in their garage. And the people at the bottom... Why did they make them? Well, because people wanted them. Right. Well, were they selling them? They actually did. They sold like six or eight. I forget. If you're manufacturing machines, whether they're hand-built in your garage or whether they're built on a production line, you're a boutique pinball company. All right. Now, if you're building a machine in your garage for personal use, you know, either unthemed or unlicensed or whatever you would do, you know, you didn't pay for the theme. I would maintain that that's a homebrew. You know, like if I went out in my garage and I built myself a back to the future, you know, out of spare parts, not a date East back to the future, but like a new back to the future. Right. Strictly for personal use or to play with my friends to bring around. I had no intention of selling it. Or manufacturing it for sale. Yeah, that's absolutely a homebrew. Scott Denisey did TNA, right? Right. Started off as a homebrew, caught the attention of a manufacturer, became a boutique pinball title. So they're not exactly exclusive, but I think that the question here is what is the intention? That's a good point, Dan. And the other thing, too, is you have to understand that it's very much a passion project. But sometimes the passion expands to the public, such as Scott Danesi's machine, where people enjoyed it so much playing the white wood that finally Spooky said, hey, you know what, we could produce this. We have the manufacturing facility to do it. And then, of course, it turns into a different perspective on how the person who created that game wants to have it basically distributed to the public. So, yeah, I mean, there's a passion project and then that could turn into an actual production machine. One example, I don't know if you knew this or not, but did you know that the designer from that did the Sonic the Hedgehog, did he get picked up by American Pinball? He did. I was going to just bring that up. So nice segue. Yeah. Just this week. Perfect example. Perfect example. Yeah. Yeah, and that's like, and I'm really hoping against hope that they actually do that game. Because, I mean, you know, we've all looked at it and we've talked about it amongst ourselves. It checks all the boxes, you know, of like, oh, okay, it's a theme everybody knows. It's a theme people universally like. It looks like you did a really good job on the layout and, you know, the mechanisms. And, you know, again, all the goodies are there. All the stuff that you want in a pinball machine is there. So here's hoping. Well, okay, so boutique pinball companies, right? Yeah. Obviously, they're spooky pinball. Right. Right. Like they are the pinball company that makes a claim to be a boutique pinball company. And they started off doing homebrews, right? Ben Heck's games were homebrews that ended up turning into production machines. Or actually, I guess he did two homebrews, and then the second one ended up being made into a production machine. So they're, I think, a legitimate example of what Mark was just saying. Passion project that actually turned into a manufactured machine and they actually built a company around that project. Right. Right. Right. You know, so Spooky is obviously a boutique pinball company. I don't really know if any of the other pinball companies out there. I mean, I guess. Gosh, I'm blanking. Who does Lebowski? Dutch. I guess Dutch pinball and those guys, you know, Dutch and the guys who do Aliens now, Pinball Brothers. I guess those are all boutique pinball companies, right? They do like one title, super low production. Yeah. And I think that's the key right there, what you said, low production. Yeah. You don't think that American Pinball is a boutique pinball company, do you? No, I look at them more like, you know, smaller than, more like Jersey Jack, you know. Yeah, they're a manufacturer. Yeah, and really Spooky is on the way to becoming, you know, I mean, they started out as, you know, they're kind of the blueprint for how to succeed as a boutique pinball company. But I think down the road, they're going to continue to grow. Yeah, I don't think they're a boutique pinball company just because they've had several titles out now when you look back. Yeah. And they are manufacturing a huge amount. For their hand built, their low run. But that's a good point. That's kind of where I was going. It's like, do you think that American Pinball produces more titles or more units than Spooky does? I don't think they do. I would say no on that just because I toured the factory. Like how many Hot Wheels have been sold? That I don't know. You think it's a thousand? It's got to be a thousand, right? I'd say pretty close to that. Probably close to a thousand, I would think. I mean, they're so behind in their manufacturing for that particular game, but I don't know exactly how many were actually like shipped to people or maybe. Is that just, yeah, I just wonder how many Houdini's have they made? How many Oktoberfest? How many Hot Wheels? And Hot Wheels, I think, is the one that they've probably kind of broken out with. And, you know, where does that dividing line come? You know, like, when do you go from being a manufacturer to being a boutique, from a boutique to being a manufacturer? And I don't know if it's just units. I mean, maybe it's just how do you produce them? Right. You know, how do you market them? It's just I it's a really interesting question because I really do think that you have to hold a pinball manufacturer to a different standard than you hold a boutique pinball company. Correct. Yeah, that's what kind of made me spurred this topic is like, OK, well, where's the cutoff point? Is there one? Is there a clear line? I don't know the answer, really. So what brings this to your attention, Spencer? What's got you thinking? Is it Fathom? Well, Fathom is part of it, and you bring up a great point. It's Fathom. Haggis started out, they put out their little game, which I'd love to play one, Kelts. And a few people bought it, and they seem to be really happy with it. I really haven't heard any complaints about it. It is what it is. And since they're out of Australia, it's kind of hard to get one here. I'm sure there are a couple in America, but you're probably not going to see a lot of them. But, you know, they're working on Fathom. And, you know, it's like, okay, are these guys, you know, are they going to be able to, you know, because people are like, hey, man, it's been a year. It's like, yeah, there was COVID. There's parts delays. And now they're showing a video where they're, you know, they've got some games on the line and they're wrenching on them. They're putting one in a box. It looks like they're going to be getting them shipped out soon. Awesome. Good for them. But that kind of did get me thinking. It's like, okay, at what point are these guys a boutique company? Are they on their way to becoming a manufacturer? You know, where's the, you know, because they throw that around. Also, like on Pinside, I see, you know, boutique pinball thread. And you got like, you've got like just the streets are littered with the refuse of people that said, I'm going to get up today and make a pinball company. And nothing. So that kind of those those things combined kind of led me to go, OK, what is a boutique pinball company today? Is there a is there a definition? So that's where I'm going with it. Yeah, I know. And it's it's it's a great question, because at the point that you go from making kelts to making fathom. Like that feels to me like you better be legitimate because you're bringing out a product. I mean, I'm not going to say it's got mass market appeal, but you're definitely bringing out a product that a lot of people are going to like. And if you try to build those things as one offs in your garage or your basement, you're going to be doing it for a long, long, long time. You know, that's got that on my mind, you know, kind of as a counterpoint because of Multimorphic, right? Multimorphic makes one machine, you know, a variety of games, but one machine. and you know they recently had probably their first game with with broad appeal announced with weird al and i'm still 11 months out yeah we're out we're out until october i just found out i actually contacted jerry and you guys are just waiting for a kit right you guys aren't even waiting for a kit yeah we don want to knock it until october i like we were trying to push it like well we we a public location we could yeah it didn matter That weird because I thought the kits were going to come to people a lot sooner Well maybe they not over so that we not disappointed Maybe it will be sooner. But right now, I feel like that's a very Jerry thing. Yeah. It has to be in today's age with all the costs and everything and the limited supply. It's definitely a fact of what we're dealing with now post-COVID. But I don't feel like P3 considers themselves a boutique manufacturer. No, I don't see that either because they have a system in place and they can just create those modules. And they've done a really good job releasing different games and different playfields. I mean, at least different modules, if you want to call it that. so yeah i mean it's i think the way to define a boutique company is that there's a limited supply as far as inventory goes it's meticulously put together because if you notice when you looked at that build quality of fathom when they showed underneath pretty impressive it looks like really good quality. And it's just not mass produced, which once again goes with the quantity and the variety. So I think quantity and variety would be the variables that I would look at comparing a major manufacturer to a boutique company. Right. Because, well, I mean, here's the deal, though. And cost. Fathom is actually a pretty good deal. It probably would be a lot more if they knew how much the cost of materials would be now. Well, and I mean, if you look at it, how much different is the way that Stern manufactures a game from how Spooky manufactures a game. It's just a question of scale, right? Stern just has more lines, can do more things. But it's the same sort of thing. There's a production line with people standing at it. The biggest production machine is completely hand-built. You know, Godzilla is just as hand-built as Rick and Morty or Ultraman or Halloween or Right. And that's perfect, Dan. It's the number of employees, too. That has a lot to do with it. You know, the number of workers that can assemble these games, you know, Stern, they have several hundreds of people. Right. And Spooky has how many? Maybe 12, 14 people at the most. So that has a lot to do with it, too, to define a boutique versus a manufacturing company, too. I think Spencer is going to hate this answer, but I legitimately think it's just self-determination. I think it's what you choose to call yourself as your pinball company. Yeah. Like, I don't think that a boutique pinball manufacturer really means much of anything. The fact that Spooky chooses to identify themselves as a boutique manufacturer or, you know, maybe Haggis does. I don't know if Haggis does or not. I just think it's legitimately it's all marketing. I think that it makes people who buy your games feel a certain way. They feel better because they're buying a pinball machine from the small company, even if the small boutique manufacturer probably produces more machines than the guy down the street who considers himself just a pinball company. Right. Right. In this case, American. You know, those are all good points, you know, and that's why we kind of had that discussion. I don't think there are any really wrong answers. It's just, like you said, it's marketing and perspective. And you guys brought up the fathom and how good it looks underneath. And I think a lot of the time they're taking supposedly has been in fit and finish, making sure everything works properly, making sure it looks really, really good. You know, so when people open up that box, there's no disappointment. They're like, oh, my God, look at this thing. The game looks gorgeous from the videos. I'd love to see it in person. The other thing, too, is think of it this way. Realistically, it was a boutique company, but it was something that was brought out to be even bigger than Stern Manufacturing, and they didn't produce a single game. And we know who those people are in that company, but I'll tell you something. There's a perfect example of somebody claiming that they're a major manufacturer, and they didn't even qualify for a boutique company. So there you go. That's also part of why I started that topic. For fuck's sake, we are not talking about Deep Root. Until you put a game in a box and shit that shuts the fuck up. No, we're not talking about Deep Root. Move along. No, stop it. Nobody likes you. Back to Fathom. Yeah. So were you saying you thought it looked really beautiful? Yeah, I think it looks great. I thought it looked kind of cheap. really well I'll tell you one thing I didn't care for was the big logo on the back I thought that looked kind of I just didn't like it okay but I get why you know I don't hate remakes I own a medieval madness remake I looked at fathom and I'm sure if it was sitting in front of me because all I've done is watch the YouTube video it would be you know super awesome and shiny it'd be like a shiny gorgeous fathom Like from the video, especially with the way that the color changing LEDs worked and just sort of the quality of the displays. Just to me, it felt fake. And I'm sure it won't when I see it in person. But like, yeah, I was just like, oh, oh, I don't know about this. I was I was a little bit more excited about the concept. Yeah, and I will agree with you with the sound effects. The sound effects were need some improvement and the music was didn't really fit with the theme. I have to admit, I did watch that. I'm like, yeah, Dan has a good point there. When I listened to the music, I was like, hmm. You see, if I was going to buy one, I would just buy the standard. Because if something's that good, it's like, I know you guys are like, no, no, no. You're going to like Funhaus. Yeah, I might like it. But games like that to me are just absolute masterpieces. It's like a Mona Lisa. It's like a 63 split window Corvette. Don't fuck with it. Don't fuck it up. Leave it out. Leave it original. Leave it as close to factory as you can. Because at that moment in time, the designers achieved absolute perfection. Well, sure. But for the money, don't you want more? You're like, no, I don't. No, I don't. It's just like I don't give a fiddler's fuck about connectivity. I want to play pinball. If I want to get online and talk to people, I'll get online and talk to people. I just mean more content, more rules, more music, more call outs. The problem with remaking Fathom is to, I would say, the contemporary pinball buyer now, the Stern fan. Yeah. Like, it's going to seem a little basic, you know. I mean, and let's be honest, Fathom is no Centaur. Like, Centaur had a lot of really advanced shit for its moment, which Fathom doesn't. It's got some inline drops and it's blue and green. And like Fathom is a fine play field that always got by because it has really, really good art. That's a good point. Agreed. And I don't care for the music or sound effects on Fathom. Fathom. Fathom. Yeah. You know. Yeah. If they were building Centaur right now, I'd be selling Plasma to get that game. And I like that. I like Fathom. Oh, it's beautiful art. And it's a fun game. I played it a lot. But, yeah, I mean, if you put the top three, it would be Centaur, Flash Gordon, which I already own. Hey-o. Yeah, there you go, and Medusa. They'll all sound like the ones that are going to be remade. I think they are. Those are probably the ones that will be remade. Flash Gordon probably won't. Yeah, because of licensing. Because it's a licensing. But it really should because think about it. If you're going to make an enhanced older game, how much better could it get than Flash Gordon? You get that queen license so you could have the music in there. Make it a multiball game. That would be cool. It'd be so choice. I think that Flash Gordon multiball would be fucking atrocious. That would be good. It's already so hard. Yeah, maybe two ball. Oh, my God, man. Because you have the saucer, and you can lock a ball in the saucer, shoot another ball, and you have two-ball, multiball. Just like Creature. More than two-ball, multiball in Creature probably just wouldn't work. Yeah, and I think that's what happened with Creature because it does take three balls. Yeah, you had mentioned that to me before. A couple of people mentioned it. I'm like, oh, really? It's only two-ball, multiball. Did you see the sticker I made for the lock bar on my Creature? it says install three balls even though it only uses two that's awesome no but you know uh eight ball deluxe is another one that they sold a bunch they made a bunch it's a well-loved game it's you know i think they'd sell more if they made a remake of it i think they'd sell it right but yeah i do think that kind of getting back on track like you know that is that is an an ambitious project for a small manufacturer. Oh yeah. You know, like, like they've definitely, they've definitely bit off a healthy mouthful. And I, I know you wanted to come back around to this, but I thought it would just really dovetail really well into this conversation about what makes a boutique company, a boutique company. Yeah. And, and largely I think what it comes down to is it's just sort of how you market yourself and, you know, to an extent, the scale of your operation, you know, if Stern came out and said, Hey, we're a boutique company. I mean, you really couldn't argue with them because they really don't make a shitload of anything compared to, you know, Sony, for example. Right. Right. Right. But in the pinball world, they're the gorilla. You know, they're the big guy because nobody, you know, comes close to touching how many of, you know, total units that they produce. So it would be kind of disingenuous for them to be like, hey, check it out. We're a boutique company. No, no, you're not. Fuck off. Yeah. But if you look outside of pinball and manufacturing as a general term, like you said, yeah, they're small, you know, comparatively. Like the biggest produced pinball machine, you know, was what, 20,000 units. Modern pinball machine was 20,000 units. I guess if you go back in the EM days, there were 50,000 of specific titles. But at the end of the day, you know, in terms of any other objects, 20,000 is nothing. A lot of companies won't even manufacture something. They're like, oh, we're going to make 20,000. Yeah, yeah, we're not going to build that. There's no money in it. Right. Well, I think the one positive that I saw from that sneak peek of the Fathom Revisited, or what was it called? Is that what it is? Fathom Revisited? I can't remember. I don't know. It's just Fathom. Just Fathom. And then the Mermaid Edition. It's the storyline. They thought it really through with the storyline to make it deeper rules. So I like that. So it'll be interesting to see how it's going to translate. because the only game that I can see where we had a rule set that was different from an existing play field was Beatles versus Sea Witch. So it'll be interesting to see how that evolves into a different kind of gameplay with Fathom. But we won't know until we have it in our hands to play. So I guess we have to wait until it gets here to Reno. Maybe someone can make an upgrade kit for your original Fathom. Yeah. Fathom 2.0. Yeah. That's the new hot thing, right? That's right. So are we feeling good about Fathom? And they're shipping, right? Like they boxed up and shipped a unit? Is that what we were seeing? I believe so. Yeah, they had some units online, I think six or eight of them, cabinets, and they're putting stuff into them, putting the playfields in. And they had one boxed up. They literally put it all together, boxed it up, put it in a box on a pallet, ready to ship out. So, you know, they're getting there, you know. And hopefully folks that, you know, that jumped in with, you know, feet first and said, take my money, I'm in. Hopefully they're going to get their games real soon. You know, COVID is basically over, God willing. And, you know, life's getting back to normal and people are getting their pinball machines. So, you know, hopefully there'll be a couple of shows in the not too distant future. You know what I was hearing the other day, and this is definitely a sidetrack from what we were talking about, but what you just said made me think about it. COVID being quote unquote over or ending might be absolutely terrible for pinball. because right now people who aren't spending money on activities, vacations, things that they would normally do are spending it on pinball. And what the going, I guess, kind of consensus is, is that now that life is picking back up, you're starting to actually see a little regression in the super aggressive pricing of pinball. And it might lead to, I mean, maybe not a slump, but maybe a slowdown in new sales, especially as people start to move on. You know, there's going to be a lot of people who've been in pinball now for a couple of years, and that's usually the wall, right? Like if you make it past a couple of years, you're probably going to be with us for a long time. But I've seen a couple of deals lately where you can definitely see what happened. And there was a deal where it was like a it was a Monster Bash remake and a Stern Wars, Stern Star Wars. And it was like six thousand each or both for ten thousand bucks. And we were debating whether that could be legitimate or not. Right. Because those games are both obviously worth a little bit more. And I said, well, if you look at what this guy probably paid for him, you know, it was a classic it was a classic Monster Bash. So he paid six thousand bucks, you know, back when they were six thousand bucks. and he probably paid a little bit less for the stern wars. So this guy's probably like, hey, I had my fun. If I can get out of it easy, I'm going to get out of it easy. But, I mean, I want a bass boat this summer. I'm going to be back out on the lake, or I want a motorcycle. I'm going to be out riding. Yeah, that's a good point. Well, you know, yeah, especially living like where I live now, where there's actual real seasons and you stay inside a lot in the winter. Well, the Carl Weathers's getting good now. We were out all morning getting stuff for the garden and getting the garden boxes filled up and getting ready to transplant all our plants into the garden boxes. Yeah. Well, we'll see what happens. I mean, the location play is definitely improving, so that's great. Well, right, because people are coming out again. People are coming out again. And locations are opening. Right. You know, one of the most exciting things is that, you know, you are seeing and there's a lot of talk even around here about, you know, guys who want to open new locations, people who want to take advantage of the fact that a lot of stuff closed down during the pandemic. And now that the pandemic is officially ending and people will be coming back out, now's a great time to try to open something so that you can harness that traffic. Right. Right. And I mean, maybe that'll mean locations will pick back up. But I still feel like, you know, of of the top 100 things that people will open a new location for people to come do. Pinball is unfortunately probably down in the 90s. Right. It'd be nice if it was like, you know, 56. But no, it's probably more like 94. They're like, I'm going to open a pinball arcade. What's that? We're not going to give any money. Oh, I mean, I'm going to open a bar and grill. All right. You know, here's your business. love. Right. Right. I mean, that's pretty good. So, but yeah, you know, hopefully, you know, we're not at the, we're not going to see a downturn because people are going to be spending money on other things, but I hope everyone gets their fathoms because I want to play one. I love that game. Yeah. One's coming to Reno. It's just a matter of time. So yeah. Are you guys getting a mermaid or a standard mermaid? Nice. Yeah. Right on. Well, you know, talking about... They're ballers. Yeah, talking about production, Stern put out updates. You know, they've put stuff on the back burner for now just to catch up. I like that segue, Spencer. That was good. You like that? I liked it. So we got Stern production updates. So April, May, Deadpool Pros and Premiums, as we speak, are back on the line. They should be shipping soon, you know, or if they're not back online this second, they will be very soon. That was the Deadpool that you were waiting for, right? That was the Deadpool I was waiting for. In fact, they're still going to be backed up. From what I understand is they're making like 30%-ish of the back orders they've got. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, they're not even going to be catching up with that. That game's popular. It's a great game. Everybody wants that game still. Everybody wants that game. It's a good game. It is. I have no idea why people have such a boner for Deadpool. No, and that's fair. Everybody has the games they love, and everybody has the games where they're like, eh, it's okay. I don't hate it, but it's not, you know. Anyway. Yeah, that's where I'm at with Deadpool. Yeah, you don't hate it. I wouldn't kick it out of bed for eating crackers, but I'm not going to pay for it. And you'd own one if it dropped in your lap at a good deal and play it for a while and have fun and move it on. But anyway, Mandalorian, pros and premiums are on the line again. Avengers pros and premiums are on the line right now. Rush pros and premiums. Godzilla, they're going to be running more of those in May. So that should be coming up any day now. I believe pro and premium. Pro and premium, yeah. I know a friend of mine who's waiting for his Godzilla to get ordered, and he was in the second round. Right. June? I have two friends who are still waiting on their Godzilla premiums, and they were launch day orders. Right. Yeah, he ordered it in November. That's when it was ordered. And that's why they put their next release on the back burner until, what, October, November? Yeah, probably not until expo time. Yeah, because they're like, we've got all these orders man we gotta play catch up it's like you know Santa with no elves man I'm trying to get the sleigh loaded up you know Rush is back online also again in oh I'm sorry I got sidetracked so Godzilla more Godzillas in May June and June Rush and Mandalorians in July Godzilla and Jurassic Park we're gonna be running some more of those sometime in the fall October November We're going to get a new cornerstone title, more Star Wars. They're going to run more Star Wars toward the end of the year. That's the plan as of right now. Comic edition or regular? I think it's the regular edition. Interesting. Yeah, Stern's going to run Star Wars until we die. Pretty much. Or when their license runs out. Oh, they got, you know, again, it's the original trilogy, so it's never going to be outdated. They apparently got a good enough deal to run it the first time, and I'm sure Disney's going to keep on taking the money. And no matter what people say about that game, and I know it's got some frustrating aspects to it, it's a damn fun game that from every operator I've ever talked to, it pulls coins. It's a great earner. You put Star Wars on there, people know the name. But you know what? Someday Mandalorian's going to look old. That's true. Because Mandalorian is the Star Wars of the moment. I mean, it'll still be great because Mandalorian is Star Wars, but the original Star Wars trilogy is already 40-plus years old. It's never going to look older than it does now. And just, you know, you could talk to a five-year-old kid and be like, do you know who Luke Skywalker is? And chances are pretty good he's going to be like, yeah, boom, boom, boom. Exactly. That's a good point. Star Wars, that game's going to run forever. Great game. And then towards the end of the year, they're talking about running more of the Jurassic Park Home Edition. And, you know, this is subject to change. You know, whatever's selling, whatever's hot. So who knows? But as of right now, this is what's going on with production updates for CERN. What about House of Horrors? That's what a lot of people are waiting for. I got two of my friends that are waiting for that to get delivered. No idea, man. And that's a great point. That's a great game, too. I think they might have brought it up, and I just didn't put it in my notes, but I don't know why I missed that. I haven't heard about it in other podcasts about the update for House of Horrors. You know, that's a great point. We should look into that further. Yeah, we should. Great game. That is an awesome game. Yeah, so that's the Stern production. Is it, though? Yeah, it is. It's not. I mean, I just had one, right? It's a cool game. The play field in that game looks neat. it really got neutered when they took it away or when whoever finished it after Nordman left Stern. The rules and the graphics and sounds package, though, is that makes the game. I'm telling you the coding. It does. I mean, it really is a medieval madness layout. It really is. I mean, yeah, the layout's like just a straight medieval madness ripoff. It's not quite it's not quite as complicated because you don't have the pop up trolls. You don't have the catapult. But I absolutely love the house. But just like, you know, I'm not trying to piss on anyone who's looking forward to it. Like I said, I had it here. I really enjoyed it. It was super fun to play. But, yeah, it's just like I really walked out looking at the play field like, man, it looks great. The graphics and sounds on the display are some of the best stuff Stern's ever done. And it's got some great humor. but I really wish that whoever put that game together had stuck with the original nor had been designed for the ramps because I saw the concept picture, and it looked really more like medieval madness meets Whitewater. Yeah, that's true. I have to give props to Cassandra Peterson, though, how well she re-recorded or basically provided new content, but it felt like I was watching the old Elvira. She did a really good job on that, really good job. And that's what I love about it. It's so funny how her her innuendos and her demeanor on how crappy those movies are is just awesome. Yeah, she's timeless. And she you know her her humor is is so wonderful Like she could have made these jokes in 1986 and she can make them today And they just they the perfect joke for the moment So good. Like when the teenagers are out of space, intro comes and she's like, teenagers. And I'm just like, oh, my God. Or when it's like, you know, get the silver bullets. No, not the beer. I'm just like, oh, my God. It's great. So, so clever. And so many clips and the work that was put into that with the coding and the assets and really good. And it's like I said, Lyman made that game shine. And I know he went deep on it, but I think he left Stern before he he he probably could have taken that game so much further. Yeah. Had his time at Stern not in there because, man, there's just there's a lot of content there. but you could definitely feel like there's another layer that was just ready to be dug. Yep. Still, it's a great game. You know, I'm really glad we have one local, and I've enjoyed my time with it. But seriously, it's like $9,000. It's a super basic layout. Come on, people. Homebrew. One more homebrew. Dragon's Lair. Oh, we're done with homebrews. Oh, okay. Dragon's Lair. Okay, Dragon's Lair. There was a lot of debate. Apparently, there was a Kickstarter, and it wasn't fully licensed, and it kind of got shot down. I've been saying for years that Dragonzord would be a great team for a pinball. You got a lot of the animation already there. It works well, I think. Okay, so hold on. Let me back you up a little bit because I'm not 100% up to speed on what happened. I know I saw like a post or two about it. Yeah. So I thought it was a homebrew. It is a homebrew. you're saying there was a kickstarter for what to get money together to try to actually manufacture it oh yeah and that's insanity and the guys yeah the guys who have the rights to dragon's lair have had the rights for a long time and they are they are like a steel trap man it's like digital leisure or something yeah yeah that's what happens so um well and then the guy's saying no it wasn't me it was somebody else trying to do it and there's a lot of conjecture and there's a he said she said element i'm not even going to waste anybody's time getting to that the whole point was like remember before this even became a homebrew i had sent on an episode a year or two ago well you know what that would be a great thing i would really dig that you know and and you you did your leisure it licensed it and it's just come out as a uh an arcade one up so and it's like just getting released as we speak. So it's kind of interesting timing. But I just wanted people to know that. And the second one, real quick, just a shout-out to these guys with very little fanfare, Super Hoop, the basketball-themed game from Spain, is going into production. You can look online. They've got a decent-looking production facility. I mean, they had, oh, gosh, a couple, three dozen lined up, you know, in progress, cabinets and all. So they're getting their game out there. So, you know what? Good for them, you know, that somewhere in Europe's building games again. Curious how good that game is. Yeah. Let me go back to Dragon's Lair real quick. So Dragon's Lair is definitely a cult classic. And, yeah, you know, you can get those mini arcades, you can get them in Ultra Cades, you can get them in Arcade 1-Up. Like, I don't understand why they wouldn't do a Dragon's Lair machine. Like, it's an almost brilliant theme. Right. You know, Swords and Sorcery games, which, what was the last Swords and Sorcery game? Game of Thrones? I guess we'll go with that, yeah. Like, Swords and Sorcery games always sell. I mean, castles and dragons, you know, like draw bridges. Like, imagine if you took your Elvira House of Horrors, like your Medieval Madness sort of ripoff play field, and did that around Dragon's Lair. Or shoot, just imagine if you did a Dragon's Lair skin for, like, Medieval Madness. It would be so perfect. Well, if you go back and look at the pictures and the artwork and what the guys did with that homebrew, they had really hit the mark nicely. They captured the theme of the game. They had a cool lock set up and they had some cool stuff in there. You know, I think that would be just magnificent. I hope that they do make their homebrew and that it gets out to the shows and that, you know, an American pinball or someone like that sees that like a legitimate company takes that idea stern. I mean, spooky. Whoever takes that idea to the licensors and goes, hey, you know, you guys are letting you guys are making everything in sight with the Dragon's Lair logo on it. they'll make a pinball machine like they they won't do it for free but like they'll make a pinball machine so like yeah do it right make your homebrew get it out to the shows get it in front of the manufacturers because yeah i mean i know it will never be as good as i just built it up to be in my head where it's like the next medieval madness but wow dragon's lair would be a super cool thing it would yeah and what's great about it is and i heard this from another podcast but it doesn't have to be linear, just like the game where you just go into the different scenes and stuff like that. You don't have to have it in a sequence of events. It can be just like randomized. Have you played Dragon's Lair? That game is ultra-linear. It's linear, but I mean it's the scenes are random. It depends on how the game is set up. Sometimes you'll play Dragon's Lair and it'll play in a very specific sequence and then there's a degree where scenes can be randomized and flipped. for a while back when i first got my name i was big into uh daphne which is a uh emulator for stuff like dragon's lair and space ace and uh i had a lot of fun with that yeah i remember actually rented that one time on netflix they had dragon's lair and i was using i was using the uh controller on the tv player yeah i had the box set it was a dragon's lair dragon's lair to a space ace Yeah, that's what I have. Yeah. I gave it to my daughter and son-in-law because I quit playing it and got bored with it, and the kids didn't play with it. I'm like, you guys want this? They're like, yeah. And then like a year and a half later, the house burned down. And now they're like, I went and looked at one a while back. I'm like, I was going to get them another one just as a gift. Go here. You can replace it. And it's a time I think I paid like $40 or $35 for one that much. And now they're like $150, $200 because they're not making it anymore. Interesting. thing that to be on blu-ray now right i don't think i don't think they released it on blu-ray yeah i've had the dvds for like 20 years yeah yeah so it's never occurred to me to go and look and also you know the problem is on the dvd player remote they're basically unplayable you really need a you really need an arcade stick and i know that that's just me being kind of an arcade snob but it's like seriously it's hard there's too much there's too much of a delay when you yeah when you switch it. I've got Dragon's Lair on my Game Boy Color. Yeah, there you go. It's so crude, but it works. It's playable. Yeah, exactly. Sega CD. I loved it on my Sega CD. I played the shit out of that game. So excited when that came out. Because in the arcade, it was, what, 50 cents a play and you were dead in like 30 seconds? Correct. So having it at home so you could memorize all the steps and actually go through the storyline was great. Dragon's Lair Pinball, man, that'd be a killer. Like, that's a title that again, if a spooky pinball or an American pinball, like that'd be a perfect one for American pinball. What a great follow-up. I think so too. Hopefully some of the companies will get to see the homebrew and they'll get the licensing rights and the company will pick it up and they'll manufacture it and we'll get it in homes and arcades. Hopefully Sonic too. I really hope they pick that up. I'm really crossing my fingers because that game is so much fun to play. It looks great. Like I said, it checks all the boxes. And I really think they've got a winner on their hands. Yeah. I feel like because of the movie, Sonic is probably not like an American pinball's price range. Although Sega is usually pretty agreeable licensing wise. I just think that right now, because of those movies, the Sonic license is way too lucrative. It would be a great property for Stern to do something with, though. Yeah. Like just, you know what? And I literally can't believe that Sega had a pinball division for like, what, 10 years and never made a Sonic the Hedgehog pinball machine. That's just one of those things that I just look at and go like, it's a head scratcher. It's a head scratcher because even on the on the coin door, they have sticker with Sonic on it. Like, oh, on the coin door, on the flipper bats, on the back glasses, you know, like he's everywhere. Like he was the symbol of Sega. And it's just like, you know, how much how much more perfect of a pinball thing? I mean, there is, you know, like the homebrew is built off of there's a Sonic. There's a Sonic, you know, pinball game. There's pinball levels in virtually every Sonic the Hedgehog game. It's it's it's a staple. Right. It's like, well, I wouldn't, you know, and and, you know, Sonic is arguably more popular than ever because of the new movies. Right. You know, so it's just one of those things where it's just like, man, if someone's going to do it, you know, if Stern or JJP has a design looking for a theme, you know, man, now would be a good time to start looking real hard at Sonic the Hedgehog. I agree. Yeah. Mark, you had a great segue a minute ago. Yeah. What's coming up? Well, you said something's happening local. Yeah, man. The Golden State Pinball Festival, I think. Oh, yeah. The Golden State Pinball Festival, you think? I think 12 days, boys, 12 days. Oh, my goodness. Not 12 days from when you hear this because this is going to happen a few days later. What is the actual date of starting? Friday, May 13th, Saturday, May 14th, and Sunday, May 15th at the Lodi Great Festival Fairgrounds in beautiful, sunny Lodi, California. The Golden State Pinball Festival is back, ladies and gentlemen, after a way, way, way too long hiatus. We just took a little year off. No problem. It ain't like nobody else didn't do it. The whole world did it. But, you know, two years off. Didn't we take two years off? We did. We did. We took 2020 and 2021 off. No shows. Because it all started up just like two months before the 2020 show. So, and then 2021 show, we just weren't, you know, just the stars did not align. It just, there's still too much going on. And so, yeah, man, the show's back. So it's going to be, it's going to be epic as ever. So, you know, kicks off Friday with the, you know, opens at 1 p.m. And then Friday evening, well, and there's also, check the website, goldenstatepinball.org Beautiful website, by the way. Whoever designed that and revamped it, so much nicer. Mr. Hosier, great job. Yes, the commish. Thank you. It's easy to navigate. It's really beautiful. Really nice job. The sign-ups for the main tournament starts Friday. I think there's also So, oh, God, I'm losing my train of thought here. Help me out, Mark. What's the other? Target match play. That's on Friday. Thank you. It starts at noon. Thank you. And it is a 25-point target score. There's a cap, too, to the number of people that enter. 32 people only, which is going to be interesting because that's going to sell out, like, in seconds. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. And then there's a main tournament that goes Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And then there's the women's tournament. I believe on Saturday. And I don't know about a kids tournament. I haven't seen anything. Yeah, I didn't see any information about a kids tournament, but I know that for a fact that the tournament that is the main, the open tournament, is a Stern Circuit Pro event. The Stern Pro Circuit event. It absolutely is. To finally see that that is recognized as one of those. Yeah, it was, I believe, the last show, too. I could be wrong. Oh, you might have been right, yeah. Was it? Do you remember, Dan? Well, no, it was it was IFPA certified, but it wasn't a Stern Pro Circuit. This is the first time. We're going to have some we're going to have some ballers at this tournament. So, yeah, you know, bring bring bring your big boy pants and be ready to play. There's going to be some there's going to be some whoppers up for grabs. Big time. Yep. Go to the website for all the details on the tournaments, please. I mean, we can't possibly do it justice here. Right. We are putting a humongous amount of work into this. the game selection is fantastic we have just you know been beating these games into submission we have a bunch of great scorekeepers lined up we're going to be streaming I believe on Elk Grove Pinball so yeah guys if you're a tournament player and I mean if you're the one person who doesn't already know about the show the Golden State Pinball show but happens to listen to us for some damn reason like maybe you're a Reno fan that Mark brought in, I mean, please, please make the trip. And if you're a competitive pinball player, I mean, please, please, please join in the tournament because it's going to be fantastic. Now, if I'm not mistaken, there's going to be a separate building for the tournament. Is that correct? It's having its own building this year just for the tournament, folks. That's awesome. Because I was literally scorekeeping at the 2019 show, and some guy just wandered in and started up the game like so you can't be here and i had to explain to him it's like no no this is a tournament area right you're not in the tournament you have you can go play all the other games in both the buildings i was like oh okay you know we don't want to play this one yeah i got it i got that a couple times so that's why there's ropes here man get the fuck out of here yeah yeah take your quarter and beat it um also volunteers okay the tournament um needs scorekeepers you can be playing in the tournament and you can volunteer for like a two hour shift. Um, and if you volunteer in the main tournament, you get five free entries. If you volunteer, uh, as a scorekeeper. So, um, yeah, check, check out the, check out the, uh, check out the, uh, uh, the website for all the other goodies. I won't even go into the games list. Just, let's just say it's a not yet. Uh, Dan won mine. Uh, the game list is really nice. There's a great round. It's very well-rounded. Joker poker is always in there. There's some good stuff in the tournament lineup this year for sure, guys. It's going to be choice. And again, like Spencer said, we're going to have our own building for it. Like I said, we're going to have scorekeepers. We're going to have streaming. It should be just ridiculously fun. We are putting no shortage, not we specifically, because I'm not working on it directly. Indirectly, I am. But our tournament team is putting no shortage of effort into this. So I think that you guys will be really, really happy. That is great. And so that means that that spot, and I'm trying to visualize it, is going to be two buildings of the show or three? It's hard to describe, but it's going to be, there's going to be, you know, I think a lot of folks, you know, who know about this have kind of been a little alarmed. there's going to be plenty of room for pinball. There's actually going to be more room for pinball. It's just not all going to be in a row. Okay. So we have, I know like when you walk in from what I remember in the past, you walk in and you see all the EMS, which are all in one place. Probably the only show I know that has a collection of EMS dedicated to one room. And then you go through. Yeah. Oh, Pinnagogo. Right, right. You're right. But I mean, as far as like any other shows that I've been to, They're always mixed in with the other games, but it's really nice to have those classic games just all in one room, which is really awesome. And then the other thing, too, is I remember then you walk into the other room and then you had like Marco who had all the new games that were all displayed from Stern and all those other things. And then that's the room that we lost. Oh, we did lose that room, huh? Yeah, there's a CrossFit gym there. Oh, interesting. Okay. So I wonder how that's going to work with traffic going through. It's a completely different building where the tournament is. It's not connected to that building at all, Mark. It's the next building over. Yeah, if you know the show, forget what you know. Okay. We will still have that first building, and I think that it will be pretty much what you expect it to be. But pretty much everything else is going to be in different spots. It's all going to work very organically. you know, it did require some adjustment. Unfortunately, we really liked the old layout, but that's fine. You know, all we needed was was games, rooms to put the games in and people to come to those rooms and play the game. Yep. And are we shooting for 400 possibly? I know we had that many the last time, which was incredible. We had like around 350 last time. Okay. I think I don't want to speak to what's going to actually show up, but I think that we're going to have a a magnificent selection, but maybe the scale will be a little lighter. Who knows? Maybe it'll get bigger. Maybe crazy things will happen. Yeah. Well, the nice thing about it is it's very easy to move games in and out because they got the nice large, you know, garage doors and just wheel them right in. And the facility is perfect for that kind of thing. And then the, you know, that other nice thing is there's plenty of parking. One of the thing that makes things that makes it really unique is the campground. I heard rumors going around. Actually, I can't make it official, but I'm hearing that there might be a planned pin golf tournament on the campground. Yeah, that's another rumor. I'm looking forward to that if that happens. And then there's the Midnight Madness stall ball tournament that's probably going to happen. So it's a lot of fun stuff to look forward to. It's all neat stuff, but that's all stuff that people just kind of do on their own. It's not like it's not officially, you know, GSPS sanctioned part of the event. But what it is, is the Philippine Friday kickoff dinner. Right. And, yeah, just real quick before we move on. We don't I mean, we don't speak for the show. No, we don't. The podcast doesn't. No. You know, so, yeah, you know, even though we work with the show, we don't speak for the show. So, yeah, you know, don't don't take anything that we're saying as gospel. We're just fanboying. Right, and the other thing, too, that I did see on the list of games, which piqued my interest, is a no-good Gophers 2.0, which didn't even see that coming out of left field. And then there will be a Totan, which will be interesting to see, and then, of course, the Rooters Nightmare. Yeah, the Totan 2.0. With all the upgrades. Those are going to be neat. Yeah, that's awesome that they're bringing those. and maybe a weird owl, but I'm not saying that as fact, but I wouldn't say it's not on the list. It ain't on the list. And yeah, again, I haven't seen anything. Rumor conjecture mill. Let's leave that on the side of the road until, you know, until the, until the homeless guy shows up at the gate with it. We, we, we, we are the rumor conjecture. Okay. That's fine. Right now. This is just all conjecture. No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, Mark. And God, I hope one shows up, but we don't know for sure. But it's great what is going to be there. So the Flippin' Friday kickoff dinner, and we can go back and talk about the others in a little bit. I wanted to get to that real quick because there's still tickets available. You get your tickets online. Go to the website, goldenstatepinball.org, or just in your search engine, gspfpinball, and it'll get you there if you're super lazy like me. But anyway, so the Flippin' Friday Kickoff Dinner is a nice dinner. The Girl Scout Troop puts it on. I'll tell you what troop number. I've got to pull that up. Every year I have to ask which one it is because I always forget. It is Girl Scout Troop 1895, and they help put on the dinner. The food is going to be magnificent. The menu is actually on the website, so you can go check it out. and it's a good time and we also give out the Steve Sharlin Spirit Award at that dinner and that's really near and dear to my heart and all of us who knew Steve and want to honor his memory so we're going to be doing that it's a lot of fun good food good fun good camaraderie and friendship and I'll see all friends and make a new one. So that's going on Friday and Saturday. I attended that dinner two years ago when they had it. And I'll have to say that I was pleasantly surprised how well the food was as far as just how you were served. It felt like you were in a fancy restaurant and the food was outstanding. It was like gourmet food. It was pretty impressive. Yeah, exactly. It was really It's really worth the money. Yeah. Really. It's a fantastic event. You know, it's for a good cause. It's put on with a lot of care. And, you know, the quality of the eats is fantastic. Plus, beer and wine. Exactly. And on top of that, you can socialize with people without yelling over the machine noise, which is nice. Yeah, that's a great point, Mark. Awesome. That's a really good point. It's a great way to chill out at the end of the day of pinball, eat a big meal, and have a couple of drinky-drinkies and celebrate our good friend Todd and his wife, who were just amazing parts of the community. Yep. Yep. If you've ever played a rare or unusual or interesting game at a Northern California show, i.e. Pinnagogo or Golden State Pinball Festival, there's a good chance that it was Todd and Susie who brought one of those games. Or if you ever went to Sparky's Barbecue and ate cake and cookies, they were made by Susie. Absolutely guarantee you're a good chance. So they're the recipients, the honorees this year of the Steve Chalmers Spirit Award. and it a real good place to be and a lot of real good feelings And boy we sure need more of that right now don we We sure do I'm feeling pretty good. I'm feeling pretty good, too. So that's just Friday, man. You've got all that going on and the possibility of pin golf and to camp out at night and other fun stuff. Saturday, the tournament will continue. The games, the showroom floor will continue. The vendors, you can pick up parts. Saturday morning there's the swap meet which is always man you never know what you're going to find at that thing and you have Sparky's barbecue Sparky who will not be in attendance this year gave his blessing and that we can still use his name the barbecue is going to be put on by JJ Babbage and George Gonzalez this year and they're going to be hosting that and putting that together and it's They're going to have brats and hot dogs. And then if you come, bring something. Bring cookies, bring drinks. Soda and water are always good. So is beer. It's a private event. Yeah. But if you're interested, we're pretty easy. Yeah, nobody usually says no. In fact, I met Spencer and a few of the people because of Sparky's Barbecue. And I wasn't even part of Pinside because it was like part of the Pinside group. and then I had joined Pinside after that which is funny it actually started out yeah because if you look Sparky's been on Pinside for like 16 18 years I mean he's one of the OG's but it actually started out with Sacramento Pinball Group even before Pinside that's how far back that Pinnagogo and Sparky's BBQ go and Sparky started it simply with a simple reason like well there was nothing to eat there you had to leave the show to go get something to eat. So they said, hey, I'll bring hot dogs and brats and grill them up, and somebody else will bring buns, and somebody else will bring condiments. Well, do you want to know why we really started it, or why he really started it? Why? Because the show was so busy on Saturday afternoon that there was no point in being inside of the Pentagogo barn. And so we decided that that would be the perfect time to hang out at his trailer and eat. And drink beer. No, that's. Eat and drink beer. They would cut out and go to movies like right after the barbecue. I remember that. I remember that. You know, it was just it was so busy on Saturday. So, yeah, we decided to do that because, I mean, there was always food. You know, we always had the the the guys making hot dogs and stuff. Maybe maybe one or two years we didn't. But yeah, you know, and that, you know, we did that. And originally it was a real small private party. But like I said, you know, if if you're cool and you want to be a part of the group, we don't turn you away. So like if you come up to someone who's organizing the barbecue, even if you're not buddies with us and you go, hey, I heard about this on, you know, Spinner is Lit. Can I join in? There's a pretty good chance we're going to be like, yeah. And they have a lot of food. And I'll have to say that Sparky's knows. I mean, I'm in the past. He knows how to cook brats because I'm from Milwaukee and I felt like I was at home. So this year, no Sparky, unfortunately, but the ball's been picked up by George and Mike G and JJ and Spencer is going to be involved. And I've heard a lot of names. You know, everybody, most everybody's usually we bring a dish. You know, we bring Shannon, we bring plates and forks and anything. So if you're interested in being involved, I mean, you know, throw a little extra couple six-packs in your cooler or something, and please join us. A great time. Great social event. To our dozens and dozens of Spinner's listeners. Yes. There you go. Yeah, man. And then Saturday evening, after everybody's fat and happy and back playing pinball or just sitting under a cool shade, you know, because hopefully God's willing the Carl Weathers will be good. There's also the game raffle. You can take home a pinball machine. They're giving one away Saturday. I think it's, I think the tickets are still five bucks. Don't quote me on that. In fact, let me look. They might have gone up this year, so I'm not sure. I'm not sure what the games are. Yeah, I don't know what the games are either. If they are what I've heard that they might be, you're going to want to spend some money on some raffle tickets. There you go. Last time they had a really nice one. They had, what, a fishtails and a lethal weapon? Yeah. Those are nice games, and they were in good shape. Yeah. And I mean, I don't want to say anything because I'm 100% not sure, but I think that the games that we have this year are even better. Wow. By a magnitude of betterness. By a magnitude of betterness. I like that. A magnitude of betterness. So many more betters. So many more betters. I like that. And it is still five bucks a ticket. So Saturday evening, the drawing is 530. And whoever wins that gets first choice of one of two games. That's always been the way it's been in the past. And the second one will be Sunday at 430. So $5 a ticket. I've heard what the games are. You can win a jive time or you can win a hurricane. There you go. No, no, no, no. That's not true. Do not listen to me. I do remember one year somebody won, this is back years ago, this is 8, 10 years ago, maybe more, it's hard to remember anymore, but when the game started, like literally the lady, she'd won the game, she actually picked the other game, and I don't remember what, one of them was an old EM and the other one was like an early solid state, she picked the early solid state, the EM actually, a coil caught on fire, like 20 minutes after they drew the Saturday ticket. Oh, gosh. And then they shut it down pretty quick. They took it into the medical room, and the pin medics got it back up and running. And it was just kind of funny. It's like, hopefully it won't catch on fire tomorrow. Not priceless. I'm telling you. Yeah, so games must be picked up by noon Monday at the show site. So if you do win one, talk to me and make arrangements. All proceeds from the raffle And pinball machine drawing Go to our charity partner World of Wonder Science Museum And you can look at that on the website And yeah So they've got that They've also got There's Saturday There's a silent auction And Saturday and Sunday There are also other raffles People donate other prizes In the past there's been original pinball artwork you know like our own Practical Steve, shout out to Practical Steve he had bought an original piece of artwork that was the original artwork for the back glass for the Gottlieb King Panther machine and somebody had donated that and he had won that in either a wrap or a sign auction I think it was a sign one auction he had really wanted that that's one of his favorite games so lots going on man. And that's just Friday and Saturday. So Sunday, of course, game raffle number two is going on and then more of the Sunday raffles. So that's the Golden State Pinball Festival. Mark, you brought up and I didn't want to cut you off about, because you know more about this because you're closer to planetary pinball being based out of Sparks, Nevada. So they're bringing a Rudy's Nightmare. I was looking at the list. They're bringing a No Good Gophers 2.0, which I'm really curious to see how that looks. A Rudy's Nightmare, which probably is the one coming from Reno, I'm assuming. And then the Totan. 2.0. It's not 2.0, it's something whatever it's called. But they're all fast. They all use the fast board set, I guess you could say. fast system to be able to do all those things. So, uh, it's going to be fun. I'm excited to try out that. No good gophers. I want to see how are they going to make that game deeper? Be interesting. Yep. There's, there's a, on the website, um, for golden state tumble festival, there's a signup.com link and there's a, there's a bunch of places you can volunteer. So if you've been to the show at least twice, you should be volunteering for an hour or two or whatever. And, uh, you know, you get, you get extra cool goodies by volunteering. And yep, you get a, you get a, uh, volunteer pack and it's got like a lanyard and a special name tag. And don't we give you like a food voucher? I think in the past I, and is that just for anybody volunteering? Is that just for people bringing games? I'm not sure. I don't remember. So, but if you volunteer for two shifts, you get free admission. And that's like what? 60 bucks. Yeah, it's not a bad deal. And the other thing too is they... If you bring two games. Yeah, if you bring two games, right. And it's not too late to sign up games. So if you are in Northern California or adjacent enough that you don't mind schlepping in a couple games, it is not too late to sign up your games. Do it at the website. Totally worth your time. And again, if you bring two games, we comp you into the show and you get some other goodies. And I think that we have a day where you can, you can like start playing early and get some food. And speaking of food, what are the, what concessions are they providing? I know last time they had like, I can't remember who it was. I, I wouldn't imagine that it's going to be a lot different than what we had last time, but I'm not in the know on that. Do you know anything, Spencer? Spencer's on mute. The food last time was actually incredibly good. That was good. I mean, they had like like like sausage and they had something like a tri-tip sandwich. Yeah. I remember it was like out like where the where the swap meets going to be, like under those coverings or whatever. They were like right outside the main door. I don't know how they're setting up this year, but. Well, we had a tent where you got the food and then we had tables underneath those tables. This is, I mean, if you haven't been to GSPF before, but you have been to other Northern California pinball shows, this is such a cool facility with a ton of space, a ton of shade. There's camping. I believe the camping's all sold out. So if you're not in on it, you're not in on it. But, you know, so if you did get a campsite or if you have friends with a campsite, it's easy to break away and go take a break. not backing on the facilities for any of the other shows, but in those shows, it's a little bit harder to find places just to hang out at this one. It's really easy. And trust me, the show itself is so big and there's so much to do. You, you, you might need a break. Yeah. And it's great to hang out in the campground with buddies. Yeah. You probably can't take it all in and one fell swoop. So yeah, you know, you definitely want to take a, take a break and, and, and grab a beer or some wine and hang out in the beer gardening area, have a hot dog. And it's, you know, we're going to have hundreds of games. The show is put on by super dedicated people, all locals who, you know, really, really care about the product that we're putting out there. You know, we want everyone to have a good time. We want everybody to know what's great about the community. And, you know, we're super gratified. They're super gratified, and we are by extension, that we can put this on for you. You know, that's why we volunteer and we put the time and the effort and we bring games. Did we mention we're going to have Deathmatch Metallica? You did not mention that. We did not mention that. We need to mention that. It's going to be badass. You know, we got people who, and like we were kind of saying earlier, we don't speak for the show. The show itself has its own official announcements, and that's all on the website. But there's a lot of unofficial fun, too. You know, if you do have friends or if you can go out there and make friends, there's you know, the campsite has, you know, quite a probably more pins than some small shows that you've been to. That's a pleasant surprise is the campsite is like the post the post show when it closes, then that opens up, which is great. I haven't heard if Medieval, or not Medieval, but if Midnight Madness is going to make it this year. Yeah, it's up in the air. I don't know. Yeah, we did do, we had a Midnight Madness event a couple years ago that was just super fun. Super fun. Like, just, there's just, it starts early, it goes late. I mean, it's laid back, but it's also super intense. Like, this is really the best weekend of the year if you're a Northern California pinball fan. Pentago is great. California Extreme, super great. If you happen to be making your way up north, Seattle, great show. I know that the Colorado show is supposed to be great. I've been to a lot of shows. I've never seen anything that is quite as good as GSPF. It really is a good show. Never been to Texas Bend Mall Festival. Never been to Expo. It's a great show. Believe me. I'll put our shit up against anybody. It's a sleeper hit is the way I could describe it. People don't realize what they're missing on us. Pinball's best kept secret. Yeah, for the most part. And to go reiterate off what you said, when Shannon and I were in Chicago for the pinball Olympics, we got inspired from Jay, who put on the tournament where he linked two Metallicas together. And the way it works is when you hit behind that fuel shot, which is that dead end shot behind the targets, it tilts the other machine. So you're playing, trying to get the most points, but you're also trying to tilt people out for those people to get the least amount of points. So it's really a cool dynamic to play head-to-head on the same machines, but tilt each other out. It's really fun. See, and I'm not even sure if we're going to have rules or maybe we'll come up with something, but I know the way that we were playing it at League the other night was, it really wasn't even about getting points. it was just about killing your opponent. Yeah. Who can kill the opponent first? I think that would be the best way to do it. And then we ended up with teams. Oh, cool. So we were having like two and two and three on three. And the funny thing was, I mean, you know, you have your guys in there who are just stone cold killers and they're great pinball players, but that shot is tricky enough that like you can find it and get two, three kills real quick. But as soon as you miss and the ball's out of control, it gives your opponents a chance to plunge back into play and recover and get control and start killing you. And, yeah, it was really intense. There was a lot of trash talk. We might have to have some rules about, you know, profanity because we were telling each other to go to hell and using all kinds of languages that if we weren't friends, we'd probably be fighting. Yeah, man, it's a great experience. And I think it's going to be a real flavor bringer to the show. I don't know how we're going to display it, but we're going to come up with something cute. That's another great point about our show is, well, I'm going to point out, you bring out, you want to call the people, put it on. No one gets a penny. In fact, we all spend a lot of our own money to make this show happen. And it's your show. If you come, it's your show. You make it work. And you never know what you're going to see in our little show like the Winx Metallicas. people will always bring something interesting and rare, or they'll take a common game and they'll rewrite for us. What was the demo man? Somebody brought a few years ago, demo man on steroids. And you never know what's going to show up there. People, and I know for a fact, there's some homebrews coming. I know there's some other surprises. I won't say till you get there, because if you show up, you're going to be like, no way, really? That's cool. So, you know, I want you to be a little surprised. But that's, yeah, man, that's Golden State Pinball Festival. I've always said it's like even back in the days of Pinnagogo, and Pinnagogo is still there and it's still a wonderful show, and it still has that vibe of like an old R-game cartoon where they cleaned out the barn, filled it full of pinball machines, and put on a show. And to a larger degree, Golden State Pinball Festival still has that same vibe to it, casetta pair of grounds and uh it's got that same down home grassroots um you know feel to it and that's what makes the shows our north cow shows so so special and unique that's central california ag town pinball show that's right i guess northern california ag town pinball show yeah man that's that's it so i think that's i do we have anything else we want to cover tonight No, man, I'm just I'm excited. We got, you know, just just about two weeks here. And, you know, it's it's it's what we look forward to. I'm sure we'll give you guys a wonderful recap of the show at the end of the month. But if you can join us, please, please join us. Absolutely. And the Reno pinball tournament that we're doing tomorrow is kind of a kickoff for Golden State. And that's partly the reason why some of the guys from Sacramento are coming down. it is not affiliated with Golden State no it's not no I'm just kidding Reno's our homies they're our comrades in arms we love them Northern California is rolling in to take your shit over I'm bringing the EGPC I'm bringing Alex I'm bringing the killers yeah I know it's going to be intense Reno people always represent It's a NorCal show so well. We got a lot of people going to Golden State. A lot. They're so wonderful. The Reno pinball crew is second to none. Great collectors, great games, super friendly. And, yeah, man, you know, you guys are honorary. You guys probably don't want to be honorary parts of Northern California, but you are. You know what? And the same goes for the Capital Quarter Pinball League. They're a great team. Nothing going on in Nevada besides you guys until you get to Vegas. There you go. No, it's a great group of people. I want to see what the Winnemucca pinball community is like. Yeah, there you go. There's like four rusty pinballs sitting on a table in some back room. You never know. Somebody could start it up. Let's take it home, baby. What do we got? We got a shout out for thank yous. I had something I lost my train of thought. I'm just so jazzed about the show. Yeah, we all are. You know what? I've always got shout outs and thank you, you know, to Mark and Spencer for for just being the men to Brian. You know, he's he's he's back to work. He can't be with us like he used to be. But, you know, he's he's always near and dear to us, you know, to all the Capitol Corridor Pinball League guys, all the coordinators, all the hosts, you know, to to press start. and Reno and Jim for putting on those events, for Mark for being part of that as well. I had a great time that Thursday or that Tuesday event, and I'm going to try to make it up there for a lot more. And just, you know, I'm feeling the pinball love today, man. It's our season. Yes, it is. You know, let's enjoy it. Thank you, guys. Thank you. For me, I want to thank Dan Armstrong, who's putting on his first tournament, first weekend tournament we've had in a long time, but he's willing to take the lead and try out his first tournament. We're obviously going to be there to support him. And, of course, to Kevin and Jim for getting those machines up to par so that the tournament goes smoothly. Of course, John Simpson, who runs Press Start and keeps that place tip-top shape and awesome for people to visit and have fun. And so looking forward to see how it goes tomorrow. And shout out to the Sacramento folks for making the trip down here on a Sunday and knowing that they have to go back probably later at night to get home. But thanks for taking the time out of your day to come down and participate, support us, and give us some major competition. oh and an anti-shout out to other dan for punking out yeah i was hoping dan was coming but oh well things come up no dan is coming other dan yeah yeah yeah life gets in the way guys it happens so yep um and you know it's playtime so yeah now well i my shout outs are to the to the all the wonderful uh you know the the uh the organizers There's the board of the Northern California Pinball Association who puts on the Golden State Pinball Festival. These guys put in literally hundreds of hours. Again, nobody gets a penny. It all goes. Everything beyond a simple operating cost goes to local kids' charities. It helps out people in the community, especially young people, and to them and their tireless efforts. And all the volunteers and all the people that bring games and volunteer and work the door. and make food and pick up trash and keep score and move tables and chairs and on and on and on. To all of them, man, this show only happens because of well over 200 wonderful people who give their time and a lot of time and money every year. So to them, we salute you. That's it, guys. Let's roll this up and take it home, and we'll see you guys in 12 days in a wake-up, I believe. Play pinball. Keep America strong. you