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Xmas 2021 A Pinball Bust

BlahCade Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 10m·analyzed·Nov 29, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.025

TL;DR

Blockade reviews Zen's Arena Pinball, confirms FX delays, and revisits 2021 predictions.

Summary

Chris Freebus and Jared Morgan discuss Zen's new Funko Arena Pinball mode on Apple Arcade as a battle royale experiment, then pivot to reviewing their 2021 pinball predictions and discussing delays in Pinball FX release (now expected March 2022 or later, with 10 of 11 promised 2021 titles delivered). The episode is interspersed with lengthy tangents about rhythm games (Beatstar, DTX Mania) and holiday food traditions.

Key Claims

  • Zen promised 11 new titles in 2021; 10 have shipped so far with likely one more coming to Zen Pinball Party

    high confidence · Chris states this directly as a tracking of Mel's prior commitment

  • Pinball FX expected release now around March 2022 at earliest, possibly October 2022

    medium confidence · Chris and Jared discuss current expectations, noting six-month delays from earlier promises

  • Funko Arena Pinball is a precursor/test version of Zen's upcoming larger Battle Royale feature

    medium confidence · Chris describes it as 'their test version' and 'experiment in the wild' for upcoming Battle Royale

  • Arena Pinball uses simplified playfield design (three orbit lanes + center hole) to avoid overwhelming players during real-time multiplayer attacks

    high confidence · Chris explains design rationale: full playfield would conflict with quick reactive gameplay needed for PvP

  • Zen's back wall is covered with Funko dolls as hint about future licensing/game content

    medium confidence · Chris notes wall decorations are intentional hints for guessing upcoming titles

Notable Quotes

  • “This is Zen's Battle Royale Lite. If anything, this is their test version, I would think.”

    Chris Freebus @ ~15:00 — Confirms Arena Pinball as experimental precursor to larger multiplayer system

  • “You couldn't really do a full pinball table with this gameplay style because the idea is that you want—if you get challenged or your game is in jeopardy from someone else's power-ups, you don't want to have a rich playfield array of shots.”

    Chris Freebus @ ~25:00 — Design philosophy explanation for why Arena mode differs from traditional pinball

  • “They're not putting those things up for fun. No, they're putting out the [hints].”

    Chris Freebus @ ~end — Implies intentional teasing of future content through background details

  • “So there should be one more title dropping. And I'm going to pretty much speculate it's going to drop on Zen Pinball Party.”

    Chris Freebus @ ~30:00 — Prediction about final 2021 title release target

  • “We're now waiting until probably March at the earliest... I think we're expecting it to be around October.”

    Chris Freebus / Jared Morgan @ ~28:00 — Conflicting timeline expectations for Pinball FX launch

Entities

Chris FreebuspersonJared MorganpersonZen StudioscompanyFunkocompanyMelpersonBlockade Pinball PodcastorganizationZen Pinball PartyproductPinball FXproductPinball RoyaleproductBeatstarproductDTX Maniaproduct

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Zen intentionally using back wall decorations (Funko dolls) as Easter egg hints for community to speculate about future content releases

    medium · Chris: 'if you looked at that back wall of Zen for hints... it was loaded with nothing but Funko dolls—that was a pretty big hint' and 'They're not putting those things up for fun'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Funko licensing deal added to Zen Pinball Party as bolt-on feature; partnership likely reactive (Funko approached Zen about existing Arena mode) rather than core game driver

    medium · Chris: 'licensors such as Funko maybe were like, hey, can we get in on your game somehow? And then Zen probably was like, well, we have this thing'

  • $

    market_signal: Apple Arcade platform access creates ecosystem barrier for pinball audience; hosts discuss limited appeal outside Apple device owners, questioning subscription renewal viability

    medium · Chris won't convince non-Apple users to join: 'There's no sale'; Jared doubts renewal after free six-month trial: 'I doubt I'm going to be... renewing'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Pinball FX pushed from late 2021 launch to March 2022 or potentially October 2022, representing 6+ month slippage from original commitments

    high · Chris: 'we were supposed to have Pinball FX now... we're now waiting until probably March at the earliest'; Jared: 'I think we're expecting it to be around October'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Zen delivering 10 of 11 promised 2021 titles with final title likely coming to Zen Pinball Party before year-end

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.212

0:00
blockade pinball podcast this is the blockade pinball podcast i am your host chris freebus aka shut your trap joining me as always halfway across the world it's jared morgan Hello, everyone. How are you going out there in pinball land?
0:27
Yeah, doing. We survived our Thanksgiving holiday, which I know you guys don't have there in Aussie land. Do you have a Thanksgiving? Well, we don't have it. Well, no, while we don't have it here, we certainly see a lot from the U.S. folks telling us all about how much chicken and not chicken, turkey, and other things that they've eaten. I think we talked about this one time where you were like, pumpkin pie, what? Well, the thing is we didn't know about pumpkin pie until we got Costco down here. Because they offer the pumpkin pie down here for those expats who want to eat it. Got it. So, you know. But I've never tried it. I still haven't to this day tried pumpkin pie.
1:09
Well, when you do finally get around to it, make sure you have lots of whipped cream on hand. That's all I'm saying. Oh, yeah. It's basically the ratio needs to be more whipped cream to pie, right? In my opinion, you should not see the pie. Yeah, it should be no pie. It's like nothing to see here. It should be a whipped cream pie that happens to have pumpkin inside of it. Inside it. Yes. Think of like a lemon meringue tart with like the big mountain of meringue on the top. Well, just substitute the meringue for whipped cream, right? Exactly. Absolutely. That's the way it needs to be. That's how you do it. I imagine, though, it's kind of necessary because it would be really quite rich having a pumpkin pie, right? You know what? A lot of people just want a little tiny dab of whipped cream.
1:55
To them, it is all about the actual flavor of the pumpkin. But me and my sweet tooth and all, it's, no, I want whipped cream. Everyone wants whipped cream. So when you say whipped cream, it's a spray cream in the can. Yes. It's quite sugary and quite sweet. And God forbid if you're one of those people that puts Cool Whip on top, because no.
Apple Arcade
product

medium · Chris: 'Mel had said that we would have 11 new titles to play in 2021. We've had 10 so far... I'm going to pretty much speculate it's going to drop on Zen Pinball Party'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Arena Pinball as experimental test of multiplayer battle royale mechanics; simplified playfield design intentionally chosen to support real-time PvP attacks without overwhelming player cognition

    high · Chris explains: 'you couldn't really do a full pinball table with this gameplay style because... you don't want to have a rich playfield array of shots' and calls it 'their test version' for upcoming Battle Royale

    • 2:16
    Cool Whip? You have to explain. Okay. Okay, so things that don't translate. Okay, so whipped cream, you have it in the can. You spray it out, right? It's really light and fluffy. Cool Whip comes in a tub, and it is similar to whipped cream. It's also white, but you basically scoop it out with a spoon and go boop and put a dollop on there. So it's dollop cream, right? Yeah, it's thicker. it's not actually like if you would just go and get a tub of cream and you whip it up yourself with beaters and put it on it's not like that is it no because again it has a little more firmness to it is used for various desserts it mixes well with jello mixes well with pudding making those creamier whereas if you put whipped cream in one of those the whipped cream is like water in comparison but Goulet has a place on certain desserts and does not belong on other desserts and two places it does not belong on is on top of ice cream and on a pumpkin pie yeah ice cream would absolutely be the aerosol whipped cream yes absolutely for sure I would agree 100% glad we're on the same page there so yes I'm glad that you had a good Thanksgiving and there was much turkey and pumpkin pie easing. Yep. So now it's the Christmas holiday coming up, which is kind of going to be what our, well,
    3:49
    our show's not about Christmas, but it's about the end of the year here and what we expected at Christmastime in the pinball world. It actually is Christmas past. Yeah.
    4:01
    A year ago, actually. Yeah. Because we made some predictions, and we want to go back through those predictions. Yes. So we're going to... It's true. We are going to get into those in just a short bit. First, Zen's pinball party on Apple Arcade. They came out with a new mode. It is Arena Pinball. Actually, it's Funko Arena Pinball. So, new license, folks. I'm sure that was one of the things that Mel tweeted about way back in the day. Oh, I can't believe this is happening. Yes. That would be the postmark tweet of around nine months ago, I think, now. Yeah.
    4:45
    The classic Mel dropping something that you can look forward to later on. Yes. This is one of those instances, I believe, where they knew they wanted to put this kind of aspect into the game. Yeah. And they probably had a rough build ready to go. and licensors such as Funco maybe were like, hey, can we get in on your game somehow? And then Zen probably was like, well, we have this thing. And they went, yes, that's what we want attached to. That's what we want. Yep. That is exactly what we want. Thank you very much. Yeah. So, I mean, it's one of those easy licenses where it's not like Funco is intruding upon the game. It's just an addition to the game and in a lot of ways think of it as, I guess I should describe, we're not going to play it, folks. We're not going to play the game here on air.
    5:42
    Partly because I suck at it. I don't need to embarrass myself. But also just we didn't want to spend 20 minutes on that.
    5:55
    If you have Apple Arcade, then you're going to be playing it. There's too many of you that also are like, I don't have Apple. Boo Zen. So I'm not going to convince you to get it because you don't have an Apple product. There's no sale. But what it basically is is it's a really shallow play field with essentially three lanes of orbit. I would call them orbits or ramps and a center hole. And then you have your character representations are the Funko figures. They're across the top. There's four of them because it's a four-player Battle Royale. And this is really what this is. This is Xen's Battle Royale Lite. If anything, this is their test version, I would think. I was going to say basically what we're seeing here. Experiment in the wild. Yes. For their upcoming Battle Royale. Right. For sure. This is pre-cursor stuff. And it basically winds up being that you're trying to hit lit lanes, and if you hit three of them, that sends an attack to one of the other players, and the attacks vary in terms of it could be bombs dropping on the playfield and making it shake. It could be a beach ball.
    7:13
    Kind of think of it as the Menagerie cage on Circus Voltaire, except for it's free-floating. It goes all around. I had a mode where there was a chicken walking across the screen and laying eggs and of course the eggs would divert your ball so there's you're doing kind of different attacks that would affect the other person's gameplay and the point is that at various points, whoever's the low man on the score, gets eliminated and you want to be a top dog at the end it's a deathmatch, elimination style sort of thing yeah it is definitely an interesting way of playing and it is a for sure a different mode of playing pinball because you've got to be quick and there's that oh god I'm in last you know kind of pressure which of course makes you break the ball every single time so it's certainly worth checking out and it's, I think, a worthy addition to the game. It's what I...
    8:22
    If you compare this to Matchup in FX3, well, it smokes Matchup, because Matchup was just you playing pinball and hoping for a better score, whereas this, you can actively, real-time, see the scores going on. And influence other players. Exactly. And how they actually play. And it's, yeah, it's what it needs to be. So, this is good. This is a good evolution. yeah so that's it's it's some people looked at it and were like oh great it's another kiddie version again it's not so much a kiddie version but no it's not a full pinball table it's it's like a no it's not a table um but it's it's essentially you couldn't really do a full pinball table with this gameplay style because the idea is that you want if you get challenged or your game is um in jeopardy from someone else's power-ups. You don't want to have a rich playfield array of shots. You want, no, I've just got to dial in this ramp, dial in that lane, and dial in that hole so I can, like, recover. So I think having it simplified is better. I wonder with Pinboy Royale, if it's going to be the regular pinball machines. So it'll be like, hey, you're playing Pinboy Royale on the getaway, right? So you have the full layout, but you're not having all the modes of the game. It might be a game limited, like could be a, they might take out certain modes and do something else. Yeah, I mean, you're not going to be activating wizard mode is what I'm saying. You have the layout and you have the basic scoring going on but Zen can overlay, you know, what lanes to light and what's going to happen or whatever. That's what I'm kind of wondering if that's what's going on. Maybe they could put in things like instead of being able to shoot the loops, like one of the power-ups would be that you block the return lanes or something like that, or block the out lanes to give you an advantage or something like that, you know? Like putting those physical barriers in. Yeah, I'm just saying you're not going to have all of a sudden redline mania to start up. No. You know. No.
    10:32
    Well, we don't know. We don't, but that's what I'm guessing. So what you're saying in terms of, hey, when you're doing head-to-head, you don't want to have all these overcomplications.
    10:42
    And I'm saying with Pinball Royale, I think people do want the full-size pinball machines and these glorious layouts that have already been developed. Work really well. But they don't need the depth of rules that's attached to that particular table. Because it's going to be like a two-minute game, essentially. Exactly. You're not going to have time to start any of that up. yeah think of it like three minute challenge or five minute challenge oh god remember when we did that yeah that was like okay so let's go back in the way back machine folks um back before we were doing a podcast we had a uh what was it it was a chat room right jared yeah that's right we had a we had an irc room yeah we had a an irc room um right and we all used to congregate in there and cause trouble yes um that was the origin that was the the the embryonic stage of of us doing a podcast but one of the things we would do because we were all playing uh at that point zen was not out on pc no um so we were playing on our ps3s and we started going well who can score the most in five minutes and so we would pick a table and then we would get get it set up on our screen and then we'd say, go, you have five minutes. Come back and tell us what your score is in that five minutes. And so, yeah, we'd go and we'd play for five minutes and then we'd come running back. And I think we had some stupid rules like if you didn't report in under five minutes, then your score didn't count. And so it was end early to come back and report your score and there would be one person that was the timekeeper that wasn't playing and stuff. But anyway, yeah, we did these little five-minute challenges. It was a blast. it was so much fun in fact I think it wasn't on Zen it was actually on Pinball Arcade I think you're right it was on Pinball Arcade it was Pinball Arcade because it had a wider selection of tables back then well I think they were influenced by Zen 2 on the PS3 because it did have a 5 minute challenge on there yes it did so it was definitely on Pinball Arcade but yes, the format is actually great. And at some point, I tried to get access to the beta build for this, but I was too late. So I didn't get a chance to experience it. I don't have Apple Arcade, so I probably never will, unless we get access to a beta down the line with the new next greatest thing.
    13:18
    But yeah, probably it sounds like it will be fun to actually experience. So give it a go if you've got Apple Arcade.
    13:27
    It is interesting what you say there with the Apple Arcade. I went ahead and I was like, I should probably play some other games that are available on here. Yeah. And I downloaded a bunch. Because I was like, I don't want to judge Apple Arcade just on me playing one game. Yeah, that's right. So I downloaded a couple of variations of other games just to see, you know, I did a word puzzle and a crossword, and I did a... There's this one where it's... It's called Spin or Sping, something like that, but it's like a little ball drops and you capture it and loop around trying to capture stars and then fling it off into the distance. It's actually kind of fun. It's a game about flow. That sounds cool. But a lot of these games feel like they're just standard mobile games without the energy bars.
    14:12
    Right, without the smoke berries. Mm-hmm. So I don't know that... that I don't think it's I think when my subscription runs out, because like I said, I got the six months for free from Target, that yeah, I doubt I'm going to be... Won't be renewing. Especially since by that point hopefully we'll have actual Zen FX. Well, FX later. Pin FX. Spin FX.
    14:41
    I will say, so you guys remember me... Oh, hold on. Before I forget anything else. yeah let's stop right here right last time i asked you guys to go ahead and subscribe to the channel gets over 500 oh yeah you guys are awesome you did exactly that i promise we won't bother you again until we're near a thousand so five years from now uh but thank you thank you so much folks because it really was bugging me um yeah just hovering at like 475 480 for months i was like come on let's get us past this um yeah so again it's awesome thanks again everyone yes you all rock so now you won't hear us ask for that again because i also got slammed by people oh you guys are really cheap you actually match for subscribers oh really oh yeah oh yeah how dare we even roll eyes yes yeah anyway um you guys remember me particularly nice when we they don't even pay for it or anything. You just do this and they can't even... Oh, man. Anyhow.
    15:44
    Remember me talking about that game Beatstar, Jared, that I said was like the king of Smurfberries? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm so addicted. I can't quit playing it. It's like the crack. It's the crack. You love it. So, look, I love rhythm game.
    16:00
    Not any just general rhythm game. No, when you actually give me real music that I've heard, I can't help myself. That's why Guitar Hero and Rock Band were just like catnip to me.
    16:13
    And after my initial disappointment with how little I was able to play because of the Smurf barriers and the energy bar system and all that, and how rapidly you had to start off with, oh, you only need five cards to get a new song, and all of a sudden it was, you need 30. Oh, come on, it's going to take forever. Well, I'm now in that rhythm where I know how much to expect each day. I know how long it's going to take before I get new songs. I'm kind of used to it now because I'm capped out 30 is the max of how many cards you need. And I signed up to – I follow them on Twitter because they drop free songs. They drop free cards. They drop free gems like probably twice a week.
    16:58
    There will be some kind of bonus. So you get that. And it's just – oh, and the most important thing. is, I figured, well, I didn't figure it out. Somebody else had pointed out that if you fail a song, or if you're doing badly on a song, rather than just let it play out and then be deducted the Smurfberries for and not be able to play that much, you just real quickly close the app and then swipe it out and then reboot the app and ta-da! You're back to where you started from. So, now that I have that That exploit going to be patched It better not be It better not be You can believe it is Because If people know about this and they telling it on Twitter they going to be absolutely patching that exploit Actually, they're telling it on Reddit. But... Still. You know, game designers do love reading Reddit. But it certainly allowed me to go from maybe getting maybe tops a half an hour of play out of it to me easily being able to play for an hour. and still have left over. Because there's a couple of songs that just, oh my God, they are brutal. Destroy you. They just destroy me. And, I mean, to the point that literally I'm 20 seconds in and all of a sudden I fail. And you're like trying to, I mean, it's just like thumb mania. Just go, ah! You know? And what's weird is... Your thumb's turning into molten lava, basically. Oh, yeah. And you're getting pissed because I swiped. Why didn't it register the swipe? You know? oh my thumb's sticky oh no i gotta you know it's just like all that going on and you need to go get yourself a pair of capacitive gloves oh my god so if you're a hardcore player probably right it's like pro player got my gloves on well like little thumblets you know the little sleeves for the thumbs you know um but uh yeah no it really it's got us it's got his claws in me and so I'll just say if you want to go down this rabbit hole with me feel free to add me look me up as shut your trap number one that's shut your trap hashtag one and then go ahead and add me and I'll go ahead and accept you and then we can battle scores that way because I did start adding a few people and it is amusing seeing what other people's scores are and then having somebody who like beats you just by 200 points and you're like no because it took me all i had to get the score that i did have so yeah a little challenge right going on well as you can see behind me i've got a set of electronic drums yeah i noticed that and uh so i have been playing quite excessively um dtx mania on pc which in the rhythm action game territory, it's basically Konami's Drum Mania, but for home use. And I've downloaded, thanks to the very, very generous community out there who creates sim files for this particular game, I've downloaded pretty much Drum Mania 1 to 10. I've downloaded Drum Mania V to V6. I've even started downloading some of the more newer versions of Drum Mania, all of which are free to download, all the songs. These guys have made up basic, intermediate, and extreme, and master versions of all the tablature and everything, and they just put these out there for free. This has been going now for about 10-plus years, so there's a fair bit of water under the bridge. So I've just been booting it up. The e-kit connects to my PC through a USB, and I've got a little Logitech system there to blast out the sound, and it's quite literally like playing in the arcade. It is fantastic. and it's all free.
    20:53
    I'm just loving it. And I'm actually getting Zachary into drumming through it. Like he actually is learning how to drum just as I did when I started playing the game. So I'm passing the torch to the next generation. They don't have that so that you can actually connect like... Because I have the Guitar Hero drum kit.
    21:12
    They don't have that you can actually use that for that, do they? they you can connect uh the guitar hero kit up but you're going to lose a lot of lanes oh okay do it you're better off getting like a a cheap e-drum kit pretty much anything that allows you to connect it to the pc will work um and if you can if you can get it to connect to your pc uh you you're pretty much good to go um and there's there's websites out there that have gigabytes of sim files you can just download from FileShare. So it's very easy to get them. You don't have to go into torrents or anything like that. They're freely available. You can use Rock Band controllers and stuff like that, but you've only got four pads. You don't have a bass pedal. You don't have a hi-hat pedal. You don't have the crash cymbals. There's a lot of lanes. I was going to say, because with Guitar Hero, you had five pads. So three drum, two cymbal, and a bass pedal. okay that's probably that would match that would match the drum mania v1 to probably about sorry drum mania original all the way to v6 so you've probably got around let's say about 17 versions of the game that would be compatible with that configuration however there is one thing i've found and that is the way it works is you can tell the game right i've got a nine pad kit or a 10 pad kit or sorry, 10 inputs. So it's like foot pedals and all that sort of stuff.
    22:47
    And then if you don't have a kit with, that's this fully featured, you can say, well, I've only got six pads. So you can downscale it. What we'll do is it will actually take the tab files, the SIM files and merge all the pads together on one or two lanes. So anything that's like a mid tom and a low tom, that'll all be merged onto one track. Gotcha. But I think the problem is that I was playing it like that because I was only really interested in playing what they call the nostalgia tracks, which is the ones that I grew up with and started playing and learning on. So I switched it back to six pads or six inputs, and the game kept crashing all the time on some of the more complex songs. And I have a feeling what's happening is the game is trying to merge all the tracks on the fly and also do some auto-bass because I've got some of the bass pedals turned off while I'm learning the new sort of muscle memory for the pads in my drum kit. And it crashes the game because it's doing too much. So what I did is I said, well, I guess I'll just turn on all my pads. And I turned on my nine pads and lo and behold, it stopped crashing. So I think for those people who are using less pads, you might find some problems with some songs. A lot of the songs will work just fine. But the ones that are very busy and are doing a lot of track merging, it will cause an exception. Of course, I guess there's one other problem that I would have. What's that? Well, the drum kit connects wirelessly via dongle. That is a USB dongle on the PS3.
    24:24
    But I think it's obviously... Specification specific. Probably. Yeah. If it was Xbox, I think I'd probably be able to do it. You might have a chance. Yeah. oh well well i mean it's free to download so all you have to do is download it try it as long as the dongle is recognized by the computer yeah it'll be fine but the other thing to consider too is because it's connecting via bluetooth or wi-fi you may have controller lag and with a game like this obviously yes you don't want to have controller lag yeah um so it's better to have a wide connection all the all the kits connect via a wire um and the i mean it's a bit of a tough sell if you don't know if you're going to be fully into it or not but right um there's a lot of pretty cheap electric drum kits out there and you can certainly pick them up obviously on craigslist or gumtree wherever you live for very cheap what somebody doesn't want the drum kit anymore i don't believe that's ever happened here is exactly right all right so if you are a bit of a rhythm action fan and you know about the drum sims like Drum Mania and Guitadora, which is what it's called now, this is definitely a viable option to actually get in there and learn the songs and just have fun with drumming again. Like, I've really enjoyed getting back into it. I've realized how much I suck not having played it for a number of years, but I'm slowly getting my muscle memory back again. Well, that's what I noticed with Beatstar.
    26:06
    You start off with normal level songs and there'll be some challenging bits that would confuse your brain. Well, I now have access to extreme songs.
    26:16
    Extreme songs is not as bad as what Guitar Hero would get where all of a sudden my brain would just go, doesn't compute and just like, can't do it. I don't understand what I'm visually seeing because it's only three lanes. But within those three lanes, you can do holds, you can do slides up, down, left, and right. Oh, okay. So there is that bit of a challenge, but they recognize you only have two inputs. So you have to be... Some people apparently play with three fingers, but ultimately the way the game is designed is that you should be able to maneuver with your thumbs there.
    26:51
    But you start playing these extreme songs and you start being able to get good at them and to the point that also because they're notes, they have full notes, half notes, and quarter notes that you can press. Okay. Then you go play the normal song, and it's like the whole world is just slowed down. And you can so easily read the chart. And so I think that's the same thing with the muscle memory, where your brain just has to finally recognize what it's seeing and put that into action. And then once you can get past that, you can apply that to almost any other song that has similar kind of deals. Absolutely. the really tough thing with drum mania though at the level like when you start playing the like the basic and the advanced versions of the songs most people if they got used to where the pad positions are and all that on the kit they'd be able to do those relatively easy but when you start getting up to the extreme and then the master level songs yeah um or muscle level versions of that song you're basically needing to know how to drum like fundamentally you actually need the rudiments of drumming right to be able to play those songs right and then you no longer can fake it to make it you now actually have to know it you're not just going you know on the pads right you're actually doing proper rolls and you know fills and stuff like that and you kind of need to be able to play the drums yeah so this game if you go about it with the right mindset will teach you those skills but you have to put in a lot of hours to actually learn think of it like if you are playing this game DTX Mania and you are also learning to drum at the same time it's a very good tool to actually practice your rudiments on because there are quite a few opportunities in there where you can actually do some basic rudiments in the the tablature that's coming down so it's almost like you could use this as another exercise drill for if you're learning to drum as well and then if you did that you'd actually be way better than me there's some dudes out there um who uh obviously been playing this for a while and uh incredibly good um oh they were just you know they were ace songs you go on youtube and you find these people to do the rock band stuff,
    29:12
    they're creating their own charts. And these charts are stupid. I mean, I'm like, I don't even understand. And what a lot of their videos are about is how to modify your guitar so the action is totally easy to...
    29:28
    It's no longer stiff and it's more responsive and whatever. But then they're also telling you where to find guitars because they're tearing through their guitars in four months. It's destroyed. and they may need a new guitar you know so the cool thing the other really cool thing and i don't have the option to try this because i don't have the equipment but dtx mania in the arcade you could play drum mania and you could then hook it up to the guitar here guitar freaks as well oh okay so so there was a guitar version where you had a lead guitar or two guitars yeah and you could base one person can play lead one person could play bass and then you'd have a drummer and you could connect the two cabinets up via a link cable and actually have a jam session with with it so what they've done is they've basically replicated that for in dtx mania so you can connect up to two guitars and one drum on the same system and it will actually let you play essentially a band you can play on on these guitars that you can buy and it's it's proper so this is also guitar heroes and drum mania if you want it to be yeah and the files the files that you download also support the guitar tabs they come with the guitar tabs as well so you've pretty much got this all in one if you like both games you're in second heaven because this one dtx mania game will do it all all right so welcome to the blockade rhythm game podcast Rhythm action section.
    31:00
    Yeah. Where we discuss all things rhythm and our lack of it. That's right. Aspirations of being good at rhythm games. That's why I just set up a YouTube channel saying, white guy plays games okay. Rhythm games okay. Instead of the Asian dudes who absolutely shred it. All right. Let's move over into the pinball side of things. So. Yeah.
    31:27
    Here we are, about to enter December, and things didn't go the way that we thought they were going to go in 2021. They definitely didn't. No. Even at the time, when we knew what was happening with the dreaded COVID, it still didn't go the way we thought. No, and obviously it didn't go the way that Zen was hoping for, because we were supposed to have pin effects. Now. Now, basically. and we're now waiting until probably March at the earliest well in fact I think we're expecting it to be around October yes, I think so too so six months wait until we even get early access is where we're currently at the one thing that was promised Mel had said that we would have 11 new titles to play in 2021 we've had 10 so far so there should be one more title dropping and I'm going to pretty much speculate it's going to drop on Zen Pinball Party well that's the only actively developed or releasing game at the moment they could drop a new VR title but I don't think that's going to happen we haven't heard anything regarding that so I'm thinking it's definitely Zen Pinball Party yep um and probably honestly it will continue to be that way uh until march yeah 2022 you know we mentioned hey if you looked at that back wall of zen for hints about what might be coming considering it was loaded with nothing but funko uh dolls that was a pretty big hint folks it was a pretty big one yeah that's right so i'm just saying there's still hints that are available on the phone call wall um that if you're trying to if you're trying to guess what's the next title is that's probably the place to uh scour and look and see um because the last episode in particular yeah you know they're not should be looking at they're not putting those things up for fun no they're putting out there because they have they have the ability to without somebody coming down on them. That's exactly right. Yeah.
    33:49
    But we, last year... All the way back in December 2020, Blockade episode 212, we did some predictions. We did do some predictions. So we thought it would be fun to look back and see how accurate we were about... Because here's the thing, that we don't have anything new coming from AtGames. we don't have anything new coming from... Well, we kind of... AtGames has those table packs, those Taito table packs that they've been releasing. But we were talking about less software, more cabinet. Nothing new from AtGames, nothing new from Arcade 1-Up, which we both were thinking there was going to be something. So that's why we thought, yeah, let's look back at those predictions. I have not looked at these or thought about these since that episode. Jared has gone back and skimmed those episodes to tell us what we predicted and let's see how close or how far away we were from those predictions. So take it away, Jared. All right. So I'll start with your predictions. So the way this one worked is where we had ones that you could take to the bank, predictions you could take to the bank, predictions that would be nice to have but probably not, and predictions that were wild speculation. Now we not doing the wild speculation here but we are doing the ones that are to the bank and maybe yeah maybe And we have multiple picks per thing correct We I think we had a choice each per category Like, nice to have, oh no, we had two, two each. Two each, okay. I was going to say, I thought there was multiple. All right. All right, so the first one, this is you, Chris. You predicted that in 2021, Zen will announce at least two licensed Williams tables. In 2021? In 2021. Well, I would say that I nailed that one and undersold it. Yeah, that's right. Licensed 2021. Yeah, that's right. Yes, because we have the DreamWorks stuff. So, How to Train Your Dragon, Trolls.
    36:08
    That's Williams tables, like you said. Oh, I said Williams. williams tables oh then i failed failed disqualified i was all feeling high on myself like yeah i nailed it there's gonna be some like oh no that's a big old whopper failure so then we move over to my prediction what that was then we'll release two zen original dlc packs based on pop culture franchises well that's a tick for me oh you bastard that's a win an absolute win because that's exactly what you're seeing in zen people party yeah so there you go yeah um so that's good we we sort of got we're sort of half and half there okay um so the next one was me um and this was to do with i think we did one for zen and then one for other and my other my other was arcade one up will offer a new pcb to make it wi-fi supported probably around Xmas 2021. So that's a failure.
    37:10
    Disqualified. Not so much. No. So that's disappointing, but expected, given the fact that you can't actually buy chips. So the only way you can buy chips is go to your fish and chip store and get some. There you go. So the other one, Chris, on the back of that, you predicted there would be no hardware changes. However, you would be able to go and purchase the outstanding tables on Star Wars and Marvel cabs and load those up onto the respective cabinets to complete the collection, basically. Well, I'm going to say I'm half correct in that people sure did find a way to get the Marvel and Star Wars cabs onto their Williams machine, didn't they? and even more so all of the back catalogue of Zen Pinball FX2 on Android onto there as well so you can sort of get a half point there legitimately to do that but you would have to buy all the you do have to own them and I was correct no hardware changes that's true So, what, are we calling that a win? I'm calling it a win. I wouldn't call it a win, but I would call it a... I'd call it a... A guess. A correct guess. Yes, I'd call it a... In a roundabout fashion. A more or less correct guess, just not in the way that we intended. We were expecting. Yes.
    38:43
    The community will find a way. Right? okay so uh the next one was um another prediction from you to do with the other side of things so one up and zen will do a jurassic park pinball cab so that would be three jp tables and then back to the future jaws et and i said to tack on to that probably some fillers to make up the nine tables yeah no no not only did that not happen you still have difficulty finding these things in store and the price went up by three hundred dollars yeah so no although surprisingly when they came down to australia you could get them at costco for 8.99 australian dollars or which was a that was something i would not have predicted in fact i can i'm on record saying that when these tables will actually come down to Australia, I'm expecting them to be $1,399. I can remember my call on that. So I'm happy to be proven wrong. So see, for you, it's $500 savings.
    39:52
    Exactly right. So really, why don't I have one right now behind me, right? With all three packs loaded and all of the Zen and Pinball FX 2 on there.
    40:03
    It's because I've got pinballs downstairs and I've got Drum Mania, which is taking up most of my time. Yeah, I'm really shocked that...
    40:13
    Well, nobody knew that the supply chain was going to be so... Disrupted. So disrupted. But I am still shocked. My Costco doesn't sell... I was thinking that Costco would have... Because we've had arcade one-up machines in my Costco for holiday time every year. And there's not even a standard arcade cabinet in there right now, let alone... Oh, really? Like a Pac-Man derivative. Nope, no derivative.
    40:40
    Whereas the AtGames cabinets, both the pinball and the arcade, I see regular postings of those showing up at Sam's Clubs. So there's where I don't understand the supply chain. How come AtGames is... Is it a factor that AtGames is just not selling as many of these as Arcade 1-Up? Or is it that Arcade 1-Up's supply chain got drastically more affected? I don't know what the answer to that is but I'm just surprised that I'm not seeing these things in store and I really am surprised that we didn't get yet one more SKU out of this with the Jurassic Park or Universal selling Look, certainly when things calm down I think this speculation will probably come to pass and we will actually start to see other ones. But I think until we get more certainty around chips and lumber prices and all this sort of stuff coming down back to affordable levels again, I don't really think Zen is going to go into the market again until things calm down with another product. Do you think these prices are here to stay or do you think the prices will go back down? I think that the prices have only gone up because they've had to go up.
    42:09
    And I think that they will go down again once things settle down because no one wants to buy them at this price.
    42:17
    I'm going to make a prediction. This is your prediction for 2022? Yes. Here's my prediction. All right.
    42:25
    The prices are going to stay as is. They're going to be locked in now. It's going to be locked in whenever new Wave comes.
    42:37
    That's where you're going to have the Wi-Fi. The more features. And that's where you're going to have the store and possibly...
    42:44
    The second screen. Either a second screen or the better resolution. Let's face it, Arcade 1-Up has to compete with AtGames because they're at the same price point now. Yeah, and that's right. so i think you that's a very reasonable prediction and i think you probably find that will come true in 2022 because i just don't see the price i it's the whole thing of oh yeah temporarily prices are going up do they ever fall back down i mean they never do only if they're gas and there's no way that you would actually get more things on the cabinet for less as well so i think you're probably right that they will keep the price as they are but then as availability becomes more prevalent, they will then add those things in and absorb those things into the higher price.
    43:32
    Yeah, I think we can always bank on that for 2022. Which is unfortunate because I still think that's too high of a price point.
    43:41
    Yeah. Well, we'll let the market decide, I guess. Yep. Moving on. Okay, so you said that on the subject of digital pinball cabinets, because this was a big thing in 2021. Are we still on the take it to the bank or are we moved on to the likely but... This is the take it to the bank stuff, I think. Okay. And then the last two are actually the nice to have but won't happen. Okay. So the other thing that you said was that AtGames will not change a thing for 2021. And there won't be a wave two from Toy Shock.
    44:21
    So... Win! Exactly right. You predicted that very, very... Did Toy Shock even... They didn't even launch. They didn't even produce in 2021, right? No, no. AtGames cut their grass big time.
    44:39
    They really did. Now, I will say, technically, AtGames did change something because they came up with the control panel. Yeah, that's right. So they iterated, but as far as the core cabinet goes, nothing has changed. And they also announced the commercial cabinet.
    45:01
    That's true. But that's not out yet. They just announced it. It's not out. No, that's right. So I'm going to still say my prediction was true then. I would say that your prediction is definitely true there. Because I don't think the control panel, technically, I'm sure that was in long in development. Oh, yeah. Also, it was just, hey, we're not going to put it out on the first thing. It was definitely rumored in 2021. Yeah, it's an addition to, but the core cabinet itself, which would be what runs the thing and the basic shape of the thing, that didn't change one iota. No, no hardware speed changes that. Nor do I think, I don't think it's going to change one iota in what the consumer would purchase. Not the commercial version, but what consumer version.
    45:46
    I think the exact same app games that you can purchase now is going to be the exact same that you're going to be purchasing in december 2022 you reckon that that's going to be what it is i think and i say that because their legends uh arcade cabinet is the exact same thing they never changed the design i think there's certainly things they could change on the at game scene it would make it better like the position of the panel interface panel um and things like the what they call the vibs button which allows you to switch between screens and stuff. Because what they found in 2021, and this is no real surprise, that people aren't really playing the included games so much on the cabinet. They're using it in USB on-the-go mode to play all the other stuff they actually want to play.
    46:41
    And lo and behold, what's the complaint that I see? Oh, I wish that there was a way to not have to plug in at the top of the screen to connect. And so people found a workaround to do it all in the back or whatever so they don't have a cable popping out at the top, all the way at the top of the head. Yes. Something that we pointed out is a design issue from the get-go. Yep. It's an obvious problem. But, yeah, look, people will find a way. I mean, most people have taken the cabinet and just gutted it and put monitors in it. They use it as a shell. Yeah. Which kind of, if I was at games, I would be looking at that and taking it as a bit of a criticism of what the product I was offering. Because I don't really see a lot of people out there excelling the virtues of all the included games from Farsight, from Zachariah, and the Taito games. there's, I don't know, maybe I'm just not reading the right gushing forum posts Well there was genuine excitement for the Tato stuff when it first came out, that first volume And then people going it's cookie cutter gameplay Right, but I don't think volume 3 has actually come out yet If it has, I haven't heard any rumblings about it, and I'm also not hearing people go, when is it coming out? It's kind of like, yeah, whatever Okay, I guess, yeah Like, they're using it for other things. Yeah. Like, most of the time you hear people saying, how do I install Pinball Popper on this thing? Yeah. Like, they don't, they literally, like, as soon as they take it out of the box, they're modding it. I do still laugh at, and I see these comments all the time from people going, when are they going to get Williams games?
    48:34
    Yeah, yeah, it's like... And you can comment to them and tell them, well, they're kind of locked up with Zen. And they're like, well yeah but they should be able to it's just like okay how old are you 12 yeah yeah i just i've given up yeah so i think i might have even unsubscribed some some of the games for me because it's just making me sad yeah um so i i couldn't and look you know i know there's people out here that listen to show that they love the games ecosystem and love that product i'm sorry but i have opinions and i'm not afraid to share them because i don't get paid buy them.
    49:10
    So yeah. I also don't have one as well, so take that as you may. Although you did say that if you were to pick between the two, you'd pick the AtGames. I would, because I'd be modding it.
    49:24
    Because it was a more complete cabinet option. But don't. You look at some of the things that these people have done to the AtGames. They've put contactors.
    49:34
    The whole bottom of the cabinet is filled with pc activators um you know transducers it's it's it's a five thousand dollar machine i was gonna say at that point you're just like what you couldn't just hire somebody to cut you a cabinet and do the exact same thing really because you're replacing every other asset you're replacing all the buttons all the cables all the you know other than the pcb that's about the only thing that you're staying legit oh but that's not even true because yeah you're right they're dropping in pcs they're literally just getting rid of the entire thing it's just the cabinet and the form factor which honestly it's a limiting form factor yes if i was wanting to do that and i was picking that game's cabinet like footprint the only reason why i'd print like pick that footprint is because of its size if i was size constrained but you know if you were making your own digital pinball cabinet you would probably want to just go with the full size more true to scale one well and more to the point the at games one because of the angle that they chose is actually shorter than the arcade one-up cab the arcade one-up cab comes up to the proper height for what an actual pinball cab plays at whereas the at games one i believe is three inches shorter and so people are now buying massive risers to get it up to that level anyhow okay so these are the to round this out here are the last two predictions these are the nice to have but yeah nah probably not so for you predicted that um the Zen licenses stuff from Planetary Pinball with their Junkyard, Creature from the Black Lagoon and Roadshow ROM set changes apparently there was talk back then that they were releasing ROMs for new ROMs for those games those new ROMs will make it into the games as new ROM sets yeah so that definitely wasn't nice to have I don't even think they've, have they even done new ROM sets for Junkyard Creature and Roadtrip this was a surprise to me when I heard it I went, oh more to the point so the Cactus Canyon ReHu oh no, yeah the remake remake, Cactus Canyon remake a lot of people were expecting that Creature would be next but there's also been and so I think that's where kind of that comes in. Just from speculation back then. Yeah.
    52:13
    What's interesting with the Cactus Canyon remake the one that you buy right now which sold out like that is the Cactus Canyon that you knew. The new code that Lyman is working on still is not available. That'll have to be downloaded later on. So we haven't even seen the... I mean, I know some improvements got put in. For instance, it now actually has a match screen.
    52:49
    So some improvements got put in, but the new code of gameplay is not currently in there With the more balanced rules and there more wizard modes And more wizard yeah Yeah Yeah that on its way to be provided Which, by the way, I don't know if you watched any of that footage of that game. Oh, it's gorgeous. Oh, it really is. Like, what I actually found, because I've only ever really seen that game in Pinball Arcade, and for the first time, I actually saw the mine. Oh, moving up and down? Yeah, and actually behaving like it should. Not letting balls and stuff go through like it does in Pinball Arcade. The balls will always go through it. There's no collision on it. So it looks great. It really does look great.
    53:41
    I'm jealous. I would have one. We might see them down here. There are people who buy all the Chicago or the Planetary Pinball games down here. So it's a possibility that we might actually see one. I know that the Godzillas are starting to make their way down here now, and there's a couple of launch parties happening down here in the next couple of weeks for Godzilla. So, you know, they're heading down here. We'll see them.
    54:07
    So my prediction of the nice-to-have-but-probably-yeah-nuh is an interesting one because there's... Well, I'll tell you, and you can deduce what you think. So Zen will announce in 2021 that they have partnered with JJP to produce their earlier out-of-production titles like Wizard of Oz and Hobbit.
    54:28
    Uh-huh. I see where you're going with this. So here's something interesting. I might have been off with the manufacturer. Yes. But I reckon, certainly not in 2021, we can definitely obviously rule that out. Like, I think for all these predictions, pretty much scrub 2021 because supply chain is just screwed. We could not anticipate that. But the inkling here is that I thought that Zen would actually partner up with other boutique pinball manufacturers. And based on that interview with Spooky, I predict that this will come true, but just a little bit later in 2022. And it won't be JJP. It will be Spooky. But having also said that, my prediction for 2022 is that this will pave the way for companies like JJP to also go, hey, yes, we'd like a slice of that. Can we also do it? Yes. That's what I'm saying. I think I absolutely agree that spooky is inevitably happening. It just feels too natural and too obvious after that interview. Way too obvious. way too obvious JJP we still gotta see them work out licensing issues Zen that is with big name titles because let's face it those are not small licenses that JJP signed up for Hobbit Wizard of Oz Willy Wonka and freaking Guns N' Roses along with Marshall Gibson and all the other band equipment that's on that table. Yeah. It's a licensing smorgasbord, that thing. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's going to be hefty. Wizard of Oz, so that's MGM. Okay. But I think Wizard of Oz is distributed by Warner Brothers. Willy Wonka is Warner Brothers. And Hobbit is Warner Brothers.
    56:36
    Oh, there you go. Well, Hobbit is not only Warner Brothers, but it's co-production with MGM. So, if we see Zen strike a deal for a Warner's table, like, say, Harry, or not Harry Potter, I wish, Dirty Harry. Yeah. If we see Dirty Harry come to Williams. That is the gateway. That's an indicator. Or, yeah, that would be an indicator of, ah, they're finally talking to somebody at Warner's. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And if that happens, then I think the JJP thing can slide in. Shoot, I wouldn't be surprised if Guns N' Roses is on a Warner label. I think they're Geffen, but I don't know if Geffen was absorbed. I mean, if it's part of Warner Music or whatever. Yeah, I mean, all the music is basically conglomerated into three different... You're either Sony, Warner, or guys, Columbia, even around anymore. I don't know. I don't even know. it's pretty limited how many labels they've had because of all the streaming right they've had to conglomerate their resources because of all the streaming platforms and trying to get that right so yeah there's no really for the big name studios anymore it's pretty much narrowed down quite a lot yeah yeah so that's what i would say you you're you're on to something you're not uh you're not i can't claim gibberish but no i can't claim it for 2021 but i reckon I was onto something back then, in 2020.
    58:07
    So I'm happy to be kind of right. You're on the way to being right. You're more right than wrong. That's right. I'm more right than wrong. Let's call it that. I'll pay that.
    58:22
    And that's it. That's our predictions from ones that probably will happen to might happen, but yeah, nah, maybe. So there you go. We didn't do horribly. No. So it'll be interesting to hear what some of your guys' predictions are for the next coming year. Let's see what you guys have to say. Maybe drop us some lines on Twitter and, you know, the accounts right there. Or actually, more importantly, that one, the blockade one. Yes. But I would love to hear your predictions. See what you guys think. Me too. And not just, again, not your wish list, but what you legitimately think could happen. What you believe in your heart could happen in 2022. And you can use this format like we did in the show for 2021, and that is the take it to the bank, this will absolutely happen, I'll stake my house on it.
    59:23
    Boy, I would have lost the house. Yeah, well, yeah, I would have been in trouble as well. so maybe so much that I'll buy you a beer if I'm wrong I'll buy you one of the lovely new succulent zen beers will you buy a zen beer yeah I'll buy a zen beer if I can get it in Australia so let's take that one if I get it right I will get a nice little mini cabinet yeah so then the other one is like it would be nice to have but probably not and then the third level is wild crazy speculation that's where you get the dog's living together yeah that's right and then send it through to us, you can do it on email or you can do it quickly on a twitter post but we'd love to hear what you're thinking what your brain is telling you so get it done alright right um last things just because we've talked about it many times before and i feel i'll touch upon this briefly uh live action cowboy bebop came out on netflix yes i consumed it in one day i have been a fan of the show since it first aired here on adult swim i immediately bought the soundtracks i've got the t-shirts that you've seen me wear on various episodes so yes I'm a huge fan and I'm going to say it just like this the show is enjoyable people don't believe all the people that are peeing all over it saying it's utter crap and unwatchable and trash and blah blah blah blah blah it's a live action adaption it is adjacent to it does not replace the anime you can still have that in your heart of hearts it still exists but this is just a retelling and I honestly feel like this first season it dealt with a major story arc that winds up leaving the second season going in I don't know what direction and that excites me because it'll let them spread their own wings and create their own stories it paid a lot of fan service at the beginning and then kind of again started drifting into its own territory on the back half I thought the cast was really good and the music of course was excellent so I'm excited by all the potential and I think there's a lot to work with. I thought it was a good-looking show, very colorful, without being a direct rip of an anime because, I'm sorry, that style, speed lines don't exactly work in live action.
    62:08
    Yeah. But I think if you... Is it as good as the anime? No. does it have the emotional highs of the anime? No, but you also were able to watch all 26 episodes of the anime and go on that roller coaster. If you just watched the first six episodes of the anime, you wouldn't have that emotional high either. So I think there's where it's hard for the criticism. My only main criticism for the show was that it was obvious they didn't have the budget to do certain things. And one of those main certain things was you never saw a space battle. You never saw the swordfish in action with Spike piloting it the way he should pilot it. And there was one particular episode that the ending is completely different from what the anime is, and it's that space kind of thing. So I'm hoping that... It had to make sense against stations, in other words. Yeah. A lot of acting part. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm hoping that if this is successful enough, ignoring the critics, for Netflix all they care about is viewership. So if the viewership is there, they get a second season. I would suspect that that's when they would look at the criticisms and go, what can we improve? And I'm sure that the budget would increase to also allow for those things. Allow for that. Yeah. That's good news. I'm glad that they didn't disappoint you because I know you're a colossal fan of that series. And it would suck if they actually disappointed you. And I still want a pinball table of it, Zen.
    63:50
    Make it happen. The other thing that I saw news recently, well, it's probably news to me, but a new season of Stranger Things. Yep. Which was a big surprise, to me at least. So that's going to be interesting. Oh, yeah. Looking forward to that. I quite like Stranger Things. and it sort of felt like they wrapped up. It felt like this was a, hey, let's reboot it. Oh, no. Because... No. Really? No. This was planned, was it? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Because, well, I guess probably COVID screwed up the filming schedule for it. Yes, it did. Yeah. So that's why it felt like... My understanding was that they were intending it to have a five-season run. Oh, okay.
    64:34
    Because I don't... I don't know if they're going if they because of COVID and the kids growing up they might wind up having this be the last season but it hasn't been announced as a final season but obviously as the kids grow up that becomes less interesting you know because the whole point was little kids fighting demons not you know eight year olds find it although you know honestly that's still cool sure but it's not as cool yeah you know Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah, that's quite true. So we'll see where that goes. It's still good that they kept a period, though. Like, I'm looking forward to seeing more 80s nods. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's going to be great. Yep. And Jared informed me that he's all the way through Breaking Bad and is almost all the way through Better Call Saul, so he's officially a junkie on that stuff, too. Oh, yeah. I am very much, very much enjoying both of those seasons. Did you watch Ozark?
    65:35
    No. Okay, so there we go, Jared. You're going to feel this withdrawal as soon as you finish Better Call Saul. I'm already feeling it now. And the new season hasn't come out yet. There is another season coming out. There is one more to go, yeah, which is cool. But don't worry. There's a patch, and that is watch the show Ozark because it is every bit as good as those two shows, just in a little bit different manner. But it's the same. It gives you the same buzz. Oh, good. All right. The same hit. Yes. So how do you spell it? Ozark. O-Z-A-R-K. Ozark. Yeah. Okay, cool. Add it to the list.
    66:27
    All right. That's going to do it for us this time, folks. we uh i don't know we keep on saying it we're closer so much closer to having melon um he's a hard man to track down yes really is and he knows it and we had we had to we were going to do one today today and he actually knows it's gonna be next week it was gonna be yeah it was gonna be next week. Yeah. But no. We'll... Let's go flying. We'll get it there. It'll happen.
    67:02
    We hope. We're trying. Eventually it will. Yeah. We are trying. So that might be... And hey, if we do get that, that'll be probably our Christmas present for the show and, you know, we can call it a wrap on the year if that happens. Put a bow on it. Yeah. Exactly.
    67:21
    So we'll see what comes with that. so that's kind of what the schedule is looking like because I know that it's the holidays and we always get slammed with our own availability as the holidays come forward yeah, it's always tough but who knows what will happen this year we might be able to do one we're not making any promises no promises, we squeeze them when we can and if we can't then we go, oh well yeah, that's right So until then, we have nothing to tide you over other than the promises that a Mel interview is on its way at some point.
    68:03
    At which point, we'll probably ask Mel about, Jared? Stuff and things. All right, folks. Until then, buh-bye. Bye-bye.
    68:22
    you