Episode 343: David Denholtz & IFPA 17 at The Pinball Asylum

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·21m 45s·analyzed·May 21, 2022

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Pinball Asylum hosts IFPA 17 World Championships with diverse game lineup and tribute to late streaming pioneer.

Summary

Jeff Teolis interviews David Denholtz about hosting IFPA 17 World Championships at the Pinball Asylum in Fort Myers, Florida (May 27-29). Denholtz discusses the venue's selection, game curation across EM/solid state/modern eras, pre-tournament events (match play, pin golf, strikes), and the community's loss of Michelle Norma Jennings, a key streaming coordinator. The tournament features 64 top-ranked players competing on games spanning 1965-present, with streaming coverage planned.

Key Claims

IFPA 17 was originally scheduled for 2020 but delayed due to COVID-19
high confidence · Jeff: 'It was supposed to happen in 2020. We know why, but it's now happening next weekend.'
The Pinball Asylum is a nonprofit co-op/collective owned by 11-12 different collectors, not a traditional arcade or club
high confidence · David: 'The collection at the asylum is not owned by the asylum... at this point, I think 11 or 12 different people. A lot of my games are here...'
Eric Stone, a world champion player, relocated to Fort Myers and became a regular at Pinball Asylum before IFPA 17 selection
high confidence · David: 'He said, oh, yeah, I'm moving into town, and I'm a great pinball player... somebody saw a bio of him when he first moved to town to be a meteorologist...'
Keith Elwin has won more major tournaments than any other active player but has not played in the World Championship in a long time
medium confidence · David: 'He's won, I think, more majors than anybody, I believe, that still stands. And from what I understand, he's never played in a world championship.'
IFPA 17 uses a bank-of-three games format (EM/pre-1978, solid state/mid-era, modern games) rather than traditional bank-of-four
high confidence · David: 'there are banks of three games, but really it's the older games... there's the mid games... and of course the new games'
Michelle Norma Jennings, a key streaming volunteer, passed away before IFPA 17 could take place, despite original 2020 timing
high confidence · Jeff: 'We recently lost Michelle Norma Jennings... We did dedicate to her... about a year ago... the Norma Jennings broadcast booth.'
The Pinball Asylum opened in 2011 and held its first tournament in April 2011
high confidence · David: 'Our first year was 2011, and I think our first tournament at the Asylum was April in 2011. So yeah, we're 11 years old.'
Pre-IFPA 17 events include: match play (Sunday-Monday, 6th annual), pin golf (Tuesday, 18 holes), and strikes tournament (Wednesday)

Notable Quotes

“It seemed to all come together kind of by chance... A month later, Free Play Florida happened and I happened to see Josh Sharp there. And I just walked up to him and said, hey, Josh, I'm David from the Pinball Asylum.”
David Denholtz @ ~08:30 — Explains how Pinball Asylum was selected to host IFPA 17 through serendipitous encounters with IFPA leadership
“The collection at the asylum is not owned by the asylum... We have a board of directors. We have seven people on our board of directors. We all make decisions about the direction of the organization.”
David Denholtz @ ~18:00 — Clarifies Pinball Asylum's nonprofit co-op structure, critical to understanding how the venue operates and curation philosophy
“We're not open like a traditional arcade. We're open probably, you know, once a month for Pinball League and then maybe six or seven tournaments a year.”
David Denholtz @ ~19:30 — Explains Pinball Asylum's limited operational model focused on curated tournaments and collector engagement
“Teacher's Pet... has been listed as one of the top one or two best EMs of all time... It has two drop targets... It's a surprising game. It's surprisingly strategic and deep for a game from, I think it's 1966.”
David Denholtz @ ~26:00 — Highlights rare EM game selection for IFPA 17 with explanation of gameplay depth
“College Queens is almost like a cult game here in Florida... It's all about the skill shot. And the skill shot changes from ball one to ball five.”
David Denholtz @ ~29:30 — Showcases local Florida collector culture and specialized game knowledge
“She came in. She said, I'm going to do it... You give me the resources, and we're going to make it happen. And by golly, she put her heart and her soul into it.”
David Denholtz @ ~43:00 — Tribute to Michelle Norma Jennings's contribution to streaming infrastructure for IFPA 17
“We really thought that, you know, even when she was diagnosed, that she was still going to be the person who led the stream and led the broadcast for us for IFPA 17. But because of the delays with COVID, it just wasn't, it just didn't happen.”

Entities

Pinball AsylumorganizationIFPA 17eventDavid DenholtzpersonJeff Teolisperson Eric Stoneperson Keith Elwinperson

Signals

?
business_signal: Pinball Asylum operates as nonprofit co-op/collective with 11-12 different game owners and 7-person board of directors, using limited-hours model (monthly league + 6-7 tournaments/year) to maintain game quality and curator approach
high · David: 'We're not really a club... more of a co-op or collective... The collection at the asylum is not owned by the asylum'; 'as long as it's a working game, we'll maintain it for them... know it's going to get played'
?
event_signal: Tribute and memorial to Michelle Norma Jennings, streaming pioneer who built Pinball Asylum broadcast infrastructure and advocated for pinball/cancer awareness before passing away
high · David: 'We dedicated... the Norma Jennings broadcast booth... She put her heart and her soul into it'; 'even when she was diagnosed, that she was still going to be the person who led the stream... but because of the delays with COVID, it just didn't happen'
~
sentiment_shift: Strong appreciation and respect for Pinball Asylum's diverse game curation and EM expertise within Florida competitive community, with multiple collectors acquiring rare titles (College Queens) and participation in pre-tournament events
high · David: 'We've always been about having variety... change it up and give people something to look forward to'; 'a lot of really good Florida players... looking forward to playing with the great players from around the world'
?
community_signal: Florida pinball community has developed deep EM game expertise and collector culture with specialized knowledge (College Queens 'cult game', Teacher's Pet rankings)
high · David: 'College Queens is almost like a cult game here in Florida... about four or five different collectors in Florida that have it'; Teacher's Pet top-ranked on Pinside; Jeff Palmer obsession mentioned

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.065

0:00

I consider it a chance to be part of the human race. And I ain't gonna lose. We are the champions, my friends. It's time for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Teels. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. We have a Facebook group as well. We're on Twitter and Instagram at pinballprofile. And you can email pinballprofile at gmail.com. The world is coming to Fort Myers, Florida. I'm looking forward to it myself. It is the World Championships, the IFPA 17. It's been delayed a little bit. In fact, it was supposed to happen in 2020. We know why, but it's now happening next weekend. Joining us right now from the pinball asylum, David Denholtz. Hey, David, how are you? Doing great, Jeff. I talked about the delay, and maybe in some way the delay could help because there's so much planning, so much to do. You're inviting the world. It gives you a little bit more time, but I'm sure you're ready to go, and you're looking forward to this final weekend in May. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we were ready in 2020. I think we were ready with the games. We were ready with the planning. And when the thing was delayed, it gave us extra time. But because the games always change, as you know, you're playing 100 different games sitting in this space, and one game is good and then next week it needs a major overhaul. So the games have changed a little bit, but yeah, we're going to be ready again. Let's go back before this all started. At some point, you saw the pattern that the IFPA does where the World Championships takes place in North America one year and then in Europe the second year, and then you alternate. So how did the bidding happen for the Pinball Asylum and when did you know you were going to be hosting IFPA 17? It seemed to all come together kind of by chance. There was a time when Trent Augenstein was here and he was visiting. And I was just talking to him in general about pinball tournaments. And I said, you know, I think it would be cool if we had like a national tournament here. Do you think we could do it? He was like, you guys could definitely do it. As a matter of fact, you could probably have the worlds here. And I was like, really? He said, yeah, you guys could do it. You got the games. Games play well. And yeah, he said, I think you could do it. A month later, Free Play Florida happened. and I happened to see Josh Sharp there. And I just walked up to him and said, hey, Josh, I'm David from the Pinball Style. And he said, hey, I've heard good things about you guys. I said, yeah, we're looking at maybe doing some national tournaments. He said, what about you guys hosting the Worlds? I said, really? I said, I was just talking to Trent about that. And he said, yeah. He said, we have a little questionnaire we can send you and fill it out. And if you meet all the criteria, you're a candidate. So he sent me the questionnaire. I filled it out, sent it to him. and didn't really expect we were going to be chosen, but he contacted me a couple weeks later and said, hey, you're in. So it seemed sort of fortuitous, and I don't really know how it happened, but it did. Do you remember some of those things on the questionnaire? Because for me, hosting the World Championship, the obvious thing is you need the games and the space. That's what the pinball asylum had. But you also need probably some mode of transportation to get people to the asylum and therefore large airports and a lot of hotels. That's certainly the case in Fort Myers. You know, we're probably a smaller town than most of the other places that have had the world. But we do have a great airport here. It's easy to get into and out of, and we're only six miles away.

3:37

Because of that, we have a bunch of hotels. So there's, I think, maybe seven hotels within two miles and a couple of hotels, three, I think, that are within walking distance. Lots of places to eat and get food. And other than that, Fort Myers is kind of not really on the map, except for the fact that we created this place here. Well, as you are getting ready to host the World Championships, the IFPA 17 at the Pinball Asylum, your first World Championship tournament, but you've had a world champion play there for many, many years, and that's Eric Stone, and he has to be one of the favorites going into this tournament. Eric has told me a lot about Pinball Asylum, so if it's good enough for Eric, it's probably good enough for the world's best. Well, yeah. I mean, again, that's a complete chance. I don't know. I would think that that doesn't have anything to do with why we were chosen. It's just kind of another sort of fortuitous thing that Eric came along, and we didn't know who he was when he first got here. He said, oh, yeah, I'm moving into town, and I'm a great pinball player. Did you say, who's that quiet guy in the corner playing pinball for four hours on one game? Did that ever come out of your mouth? No, it was weird because, like I said, somebody saw a bio of him when he first moved to town to be a meteorologist in the local station here. And the last line of the bio was, Eric is also a great pinball player or pinball champion. And we talked about it and said, we never heard of this guy before. Who is he? So we just took it upon ourselves to email him and emailed him a couple of times. He never responded. Then all of a sudden he responded and he said, hey, I'd like to come and visit. He came to a tournament and we watched him play. Like yeah this guy this guy something else And and he just started hanging out and we all became friends with him and we just kind of watched his early rise because at that point he hadn't really played in a pinball tournament, like, I think, over 10 years. So let's talk about the planning. It's not just the World Championship, which takes place on Friday the 27th, also Saturday the 28th with qualifying, and it wraps up on the Sunday the 29th. You have to get the games ready. You were mentioning you were even doing that right now at the Pinball Asylum, but you're also kind of presenting other opportunities throughout the week, kind of the pre-IFPA events. Yeah, so this is a great opportunity for especially players that are coming from far away. They get here early, and they want to kind of check out the venue and get some walker points. So we're starting this Sunday. We're having a two-day match play, Sunday-Monday. It's actually our sixth annual match play, and of course this year will be completely different because we have people coming from all over the world I think we have about 55 players right now and about I would say 40 plus are from outside of Florida and yeah it's going to be a great two-day tournament lots of games that are not in IFPA 17 will be featured in the match play and some games from IFPA 17 but we're trying to really mix it up so there's a lot of unusual games that maybe people haven't seen that they're going to get to play in the pre-tournaments. And then Tuesday is a pin golf. We'll have 18 games, 18 holes. And then on Wednesday, we're going to do a strikes tournament. So if you're in the Florida area, especially around Fort Myers, and you want to check out Pinball Asylum, this would be a great chance to see the many games there, this world-class facility, and get to play some of the best. So really find out where you stand. And who knows, maybe you're like, hey, I can play with these players. And then you step up. That's how a lot of people get hooked into this. Yeah, yeah. We have a lot of really good Florida players, as you know, besides Eric Stone, and a lot of those will be present, and they're looking forward to playing with the great players from around the world. So it's going to be exciting just to watch. I mean, I'm really looking forward to the pre-tournaments as much as the World Championship, to be honest with you. If you go on ifpa.com, you'll actually see the list of games used for IFPA 17, And the reason it's unique is because those who aren't familiar with it, if you have been to Pinburg, you always remember, okay, there were banks of four, and there was a modern game. There was maybe a classic 90s Bally Williams game, some sort of DMD game. There was a solid state, and there was an EM game. Similar at IFPA 17, there are banks of three games, but really it's the older games, and these are games from 1978 and before. there's the mid games as well so your solid states and then of course the new games so every player will have to play in a group of four on these three banks was that difficult or was that always at pinball asylum this wide range and variety of different eras of games yeah i think that's honestly i think that's one of our strengths is that we have such a wide variety of games um you know the collection at the asylum is not owned by the asylum it's actually the collection of at At this point, I think 11 or 12 different people. A lot of my games are here, but there's another 10 or 11 people that have at least one or two games here. And we've always been about having variety, trying to acquire games or bring games in that we don't see everywhere else, just to kind of change it up and give people something to look forward to when they come here, play games that they probably haven't played before or maybe never seen before. You mentioned the different owners that have provided the games at the Pinball Asylum. I assume it's always been this case because the Pinball Asylum is actually a nonprofit organization. Yeah, that's correct. We're not really a club. I mean, people call us a club. We're more of, I guess, a co-op or collective. You know, we have a board of directors. We have seven people on our board of directors. We all make decisions about the direction of the organization. And collectors in Florida that know us say, hey, I got an extra game. I don't have a place to put it. Can I leave it at the asylum? And they'll bring it up. And, you know, as long as it's a working game, we'll maintain it for them. We'll keep it going and we'll put it in tournaments. That's part of the deal. When they bring a game to us, they know it's going to get played. And the games don't get played a lot because we're not open like a traditional arcade. We're open probably, you know, once a month for Pinball League and then maybe six or seven tournaments a year. This wide range of games. I'm looking at the list again on ifpapinball.com. You can slash ifpa17, slash games. There's all kinds of information, including how the tournament's being played, the list of 64 players from all over the world. We're talking the top two from every country, and then the rest were made up of those that were the highest ranked. You've got a couple of games here I don't know if I've ever played before. What is Teacher's Pet? This is one of the older games. Ah, good choice there. Teacher's Pet is a game that I always had my eye on because if you go by Pinside at all, I don't necessarily go by Finside's rankings, but it's been listed as one of the top one or two best EMs of all time, and I always saw that because I love EMs and always wanted to play one and then a friend of mine got one about two years ago I went to his house and played it and it a fantastic game It has two drop targets You can increase the value of the drop targets by spelling Teacher Pet And it a surprising game It's surprisingly strategic and deep for a game from, I think it's 1966. I believe it's 66, or thereabouts, 65 maybe. Yeah, so it's an unusual game, but I think people that know it really love it. And I really just acquired this game probably about four or five months ago, and it's just working now after months of refurbishing and changing a lot of stuff out. So I'm excited to see people play it. You've got another old game I don't think I've ever seen or played, College Queens. And this is an EM game with five upper in lanes. You've got four pop bumpers, and they obviously increase with certain value. but you've got two very targets, and we're talking about the little tiny flippers too. This is going to test them skills because you've got a big gap. You've got very targets that can send the ball back. College Queens. College Queens is almost like a cult game here in Florida. One of our favorite players in the state, Jeff Palmer, somehow found this game somewhere. I think he played it at a friend's house, and he became obsessed with it and finally convinced one of our other friends to sell it to him. It's one of his favorite games, and then we all started playing it. And then, of course, we all started looking for it. And I think there's about four or five different collectors in Florida that have it, including us. And it's a great game. It's all about the skill shot. And the skill shot changes from ball one to ball five. And you've got to get that skill shot. It's 300 points. And there's also a lane on the right that allows you to get back into the shooter lane and have another shot at the top lanes where you're scoring 300 points if you get through the rollover. Cool game. Really cool game. It's interesting because when you go to a lot of tournaments, you don't see many of these older games. Or they might just be in classics tournaments. But to be the world champion at IFPA 17, you've got to play every era. So you're going to get your modern game that you're probably used to. You've probably had a few plays before on the mid-level games, the solid states. But these older games are really going to be maybe the difference maker. So the defending champ will not be there, in fact. In Johannes Ostenmeier, he's in school in Germany. So we go back to people like Raymond Davidson, who won two in a row. Of course, Daniele Acari from Italy. And there's so many greats. Who knows who it'll be? I mentioned Eric Stone earlier. You've got to think he's going to be one of the favorites, too. Is there someone you're looking at? Well, I find it interesting, you know, being a fan of competitive pinball. You know, everybody looks at Keith Elwin as, you know, the great player that he is. He's won, I think, more majors than anybody, I believe, that still stands. And from what I understand, he's never played in a world championship. He's played in everything else, but I don't think he's ever played in a world. Well, it's been a while, David. In fact, I don't know if he's played. I'm not 100% sure if he's played outside of America in this tournament. I don't think. I'm looking at his IFPA right now. I do know he played in Pittsburgh, in Carnegie, at the old Papa facility. So in 2016, he was there. Okay, interesting. But, yeah, it's been a while for the GOAT, the greatest of all time. Yeah, he definitely has a 1-1 because I was looking at the poster that Josh sent us the other day, and it has all the winners, and so he's definitely not 1-1. I still think he's definitely one of those people you look and you go, oh, he could win any tournament. It doesn't matter. Again, I always hear people say with these older games, you know, they're lucky. You get maybe the right rollover or house balls or it's all luck. I think if you're playing, and Josh says this all the time, I think if you're playing someone like Keith Elwin a hundred times, he's probably going to beat you on that quote-unquote luck box EM more times than not, and maybe a lot too. So again, the great players with the older games, it's not so much about the rules, it's really about the pinball skills. So I actually think the opposite. I think the better players shine on the older games. Well, there's certainly more, randomness on the older games. So, you know, if I'm going to play Eric Stone, which I do occasionally, I'll always choose an EM because there's some randomness there. And I might have a chance, probably not, but once in a while, if I'm playing him on an EM, you know what? I can beat him. I mean, not often.

15:18

Like you said, maybe two times out of 50, but, you know, that's and I agree with you. Luckbox, I don't like that terminology because I think if you play enough on any old game and you're good enough, you're going to still come out on top. One of the things you will see, even if you're not at the IFPA World Championships, you're going to be able to stream it. In fact, I had Vince reach out to me, your head commentator, if you will. He was asking me some questions, some do's and don'ts, some tips and all that. And I know he's been talking with Carl D'Angelo as well. And that's going to be exciting to see on stream. And the only unfortunate thing is We lost someone that would have been a big, big part of that stream. She was massive to the Florida community, especially Pinball Asylum, when we recently lost Michelle Norma Jennings. I saw on your Facebook David I saw a nice tribute you did at a recent league night for Norma and she certainly going to be missed Yeah she was not just a good friend She was an integral part of creating the broadcast and streaming for the asylum You know, we wanted to do this because we knew IFPA 17 was coming up back in, I think, 2018. You know, a lot of people were not willing to put in the work to create it from scratch. And I wear so many hats here. I just couldn't do it. I didn't have the time. And so we were looking for somebody, and you know, Jeff, because you do this. It's an enormous amount of work, especially when you're creating something from scratch. And she came in. She said, I'm going to do it. I said, you're going to do it. She said, I'm going to do it. You give me the resources, and we're going to make it happen. And by golly, she put her heart and her soul into it. She created it for us. Our streaming capability helped us get the equipment. She knew all the people that had the knowledge, and she picked their brains and got what we needed so we can get up and running. And, yeah, we really thought that, you know, even when she was diagnosed, that she was still going to be the person who led the stream and led the broadcast for us for IPA 17. But because of the delays with COVID, it just wasn't, it just didn't happen. And it's a very sad thing. We did dedicate to her, I believe, about a year ago, we dedicated our broadcast booth to her. We produced a really nice plaque, which you'll see when you come to the asylum, and gave her one as well. And it's the Norma Jennings broadcast booth. And believe me when I tell you this, we really miss her, and we will always miss her because she's a unique personality, I don't know, just a terrific person, not to be duplicated in this lifetime. So, yeah, it's very sad. Sadly, she is gone, but she will be remembered for years to come because of that dedication, because of her openness, her honesty, her struggles with cancer, her stream that she did on Tuesday nights, the Pinball and Cancer Two Journeys. It was fabulous. And those are now archived that we have forever, too, plus the personal experiences you had, David, I had with her when it was Free Play Florida or wherever at the Pinball Asylum. You know, there's a lot of great memories there. And I had a good conversation with her husband, Jeff, last week, in fact, and going to be a nice service for her in early June that a lot of people are going to be able to see online. And again, what a great legacy that she left for us. And we'll see it at Pinball Asylum where you have been there. What is it, 2010, 2011 when that first opened, when you decided to create this? Yeah, our first year was 2011, and I think our first tournament at the Asylum was April in 2011. So yeah, we're 11 years old. That's not a long time to be in business, if you will, to put on something like this. I mean, there had to be a lot of growth, and I know you're there right now. You were teching a few of the games. I guess that's a big thing as well, making sure these are all fine-tuned and rubbers and tilt bobs and flippers and strengths and all these kind of things, power issues, I assume and hope, fingers crossed, as I come there, there's a good AC because I'm a ginger who might sweat once in a while. But there's just so many factors with obviously certain protocols and still coming out of this pandemic, it's not really open to spectators in a confined area as we're playing pinball. But there's just so much that you've had to put together, you and your team, to get ready for this. And I just can't imagine. I know you had the delay we talked about earlier with two years, but it does seem to creep up on you. And you're like, okay, we've got everything checked off, but something always happens. Yeah, you know, one of our strengths, I think, and I hope this doesn't curse me, I'm knocking on wood on my desk right now, but, you know, one of our strengths is the games here in general are in really good condition. The quality of the guys that we have working on stuff and the standard to which everybody here is pretty high. So I'm hoping, hoping I'm not hurting myself, but I'm hoping the games are going to hold up. I mean, that's, as a tournament director, and I'm sure you've done it, games have got to hold up. I have full confidence. I know the IFPA does as well, and so will all these players coming from around the world to Fort Myers, Florida, for the Pinball Asylum for IFPA 17 and all the pre-festivities. I shall see you soon. Looking forward to this, David, and appreciate the time. Yeah, absolutely, Jeff. I love your show, and I appreciate you having me on. Any more of those tips, too, on some of those older games, too, feel free to send me a message. I'm sure I'll share it with everyone. Don't you worry. Anything you need, Jeff. Anything for you. All right, David. See you soon. Okay. Take care, Jeff. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. We're on Facebook. We're on Twitter and Instagram at pinballprofile. Email pinballprofile at gmail.com. I'm Jeff Teels. And we will keep on fighting till the end. We are the champions. No time for losers Cause we are the champions Of the world