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A Hunter's Tale with special guest Ryan Claytor

This Flippin' Podcast·podcast_episode·56m 46s·analyzed·Jan 7, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

Ryan Claytor talks A Hunter's Tale Kickstarter, his grandfather's legacy, and creative integrity.

Summary

Ryan Claytor discusses his new Kickstarter project, "A Hunter's Tale," a comic book adaptation of a poem written by his late grandfather nearly 40 years ago. The episode explores Claytor's creative process, his grandfather's life story (surviving tuberculosis in Arizona by becoming an expert marksman hunter), and his philosophy on independent comics publishing, crowdfunding, and avoiding exploitative collector-driven pricing models despite pressure from the pinball and comics communities.

Key Claims

  • A Hunter's Tale is available on Kickstarter at www.ahunterstale.com with a $10 base reward tier (including shipping) for the physical book.

    high confidence · Ryan Claytor, stated directly during episode

  • The Kickstarter funding goal is $2,224, calculated precisely to cover offset printing of 1,000 copies, shipping materials, shipping costs, and Kickstarter fees.

    high confidence · Ryan Claytor, provided specific breakdown with pie chart on Kickstarter page

  • Original artwork pages from the book are available for $150, which includes a signed copy of the book and limited edition prints, making original artwork accessible for under $100 after factoring in all costs.

    high confidence · Ryan Claytor, detailed reward tier explanation

  • Comic projects on Kickstarter achieved a 71% success rate in 2020 and were tracking to beat that by September 2021, driven by a tight-knit indie comics community with high backer participation rates.

    medium confidence · Ryan Claytor citing Oriana Leckert, Kickstarter comics outreach manager, interviewed at his university comics class

  • Ryan's grandfather was diagnosed with tuberculosis in early 1900s Alma, Illinois and was sent to Arizona's desert to recover; he hunted with a .22 rifle and could only fire one shot to avoid attracting the game warden.

    high confidence · Ryan Claytor sharing family history about his grandfather

  • Ryan Claytor has deliberately avoided implementing limited edition variants or multiple cover variants for A Hunter's Tale despite knowing it could generate more revenue, citing discomfort with 'capitalistic' collector exploitation tactics.

    high confidence · Ryan Claytor responding to Tommy's suggestion of LE/Pro/Premium-style tiers paralleling pinball industry

  • Ryan Claytor prefers electromechanical pinball games and is a 'sub-pro market' collector, though he owns some solid state games like Williams Whirlwind and Stern Spider-Man.

    high confidence · Ryan Claytor discussing his pinball collecting preferences

Notable Quotes

  • “I want this to be a really easy buy... I want this to be a no brainer for people... ultimately that's what I want to do is spread my grandfather's poem as far and wide as possible.”

    Ryan Claytor @ early in episode — Explains his pricing philosophy and mission for the project

  • “You know, when I think about my grandfather's story, you know, it was just such a wildly different way of being in the world. And that's the kind of thing that I hope people can take some time to think about.”

    Ryan Claytor @ mid-episode — Core motivation for sharing his grandfather's story as a tool for empathy and understanding

  • “I don't want any scent of like, oh, you're just trying to capitalize off this thing and milk us for as much money as you possibly can. It's not something I'm interested in.”

    Ryan Claytor @ late episode — Explicitly rejects exploitative collector tactics despite pressure from both pinball and comics communities

  • “I wish that pinball could exist on a single model platform rather than, you know, pro premium LE type of thing. But you know, the market's there. So they're giving the market what it wants.”

    Ryan Claytor @ late episode — Critiques but respects the business rationale behind tiered pinball pricing

  • “When you sat down and you start looking at the pages and start looking at the details... there's like a connection that you have to the artist when you have a piece that they sat down, spent the time to... that is a you have a physical connection to that artist, which I think is incredible.”

    Taylor Reese @ late episode — Articulates the emotional value of original artwork ownership and personal connection

  • “I'll occasionally get into this like myopic rut of thinking, well, I think this way. So everybody else must think this way.”

    Ryan Claytor @ end of episode — Self-awareness about how community feedback shaped his tier offerings

Entities

Ryan ClaytorpersonThomas SkinnerpersonTaylor ReesepersonA Hunter's TaleproductElephant Eater ComicsproductThis Flippin' PodcastorganizationKickstartercompanyCoin Op CarnivalproductOriana LeckertpersonElephant Eater Championsorganization

Signals

  • ?

    content_signal: Ryan Claytor appears as special guest on This Flippin' Podcast to discuss A Hunter's Tale project; represents cross-community content outreach beyond pinball-only audiences

    high · Episode structure and host introduction; Claytor mentions talking to watch folks, comics podcasts, and pinball communities

  • ?

    product_launch: A Hunter's Tale Kickstarter live with $2,224 funding goal, 1,000-copy offset print run, base tier at $10 (including shipping), original artwork pages at $150

    high · Ryan Claytor provides detailed breakdown of funding structure, reward tiers, and campaign URL

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Ryan Claytor deliberately rejects limited edition variants and exploitative collector tactics despite knowing it could increase revenue; prefers single-version approach aligned with values

    high · Direct statement: 'I don't want any scent of like, oh, you're just trying to capitalize off this thing... It's not something I'm interested in'; explicitly declines LE/Premium/Pro tier suggestion

  • ?

    community_signal: Ryan Claytor actively bridges pinball, comics, watches, and neon communities; hosts university comics class; maintains ties to multiple fan/creator groups

    high · Introduction lists multiple communities; mentions Elephant Eater Champions group; speaks to university comics class

  • $

    market_signal: Comic projects on Kickstarter achieved 71% success rate in 2020 (up from ~50% historically) and tracking higher in 2021; indie comics community shows strong peer-support dynamics similar to pinball

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.170

0:00
The episode you are about to hear contains explicit words. The opinions within are those of the hosts and in no way imply that anyone listening to this podcast agrees with anything we say. Please send complaints to thisflippinpodcast at gmail.com.
0:30
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of this book and podcast. I am Thomas Skinner, joined as always by Taylor Reese. But more importantly today, we have a very special guest, a friend of the show, a friend in real life, incredibly talented man. And he does all sorts of amazing things while working as a college professor, maintaining a family life, being involved in the pinball community, the comic book community, the watch community, the neon community. You guys know him as Ryan Claytor. And we just know him as Ryan. Ryan, thanks for coming on, man. Tommy, thanks for that killer introduction. I don't know what to say now. Thank you. I left some stuff out, I'm sure. You left a lot out. Yeah. Yeah, but Ryan is a very busy and very talented man. And he is here on this special episode for a lot of reasons, but mostly because we want to talk about his latest project, A Hunter's Tale, a comics poem written by his own grandfather.
1:39
Yeah, so first of all, thank you so much for having me on here, both Tommy and Taylor. It's great to chat with you guys. It's always nice to catch up. And yes, as Tommy mentioned, I have a new project that has nothing to do with pinball. So I thank you especially for having me on the show. So this is really cool of you guys. Thank you. But yeah, Tommy mentioned I have been illustrating a poem that my late grandfather wrote almost 40 years ago now. And my grandfather left behind this body of creative work, a series of poems. And this one in particular has always resonated with me. Whenever I go through these poems, I'm like stopped dead in my tracks when I get to A Hunter's Tale. When I first heard the title of the poem, I'm like, oh, man, I don't even know if I want to read this poem or not, because I'm not a hunter. But ultimately, this poem is about these two very different subjects, a hunter and his prey. And ultimately, their unlikely relationship that they form, essentially this reciprocated empathy for one another. You know, they both kind of see one another's point of view and sort of come to an agreement that is, I think, unexpected. And I just can't wait to share my grandfather's work with the world, you know, in a much greater capacity than I think he probably ever suspected it would be. So for the past six months, I've been taking his poem and illustrating it in comic book form. And now there is a Kickstarter live at www.ahunterstale.com. That'll take you right to the Kickstarter. And you can check it out and see if it's something that might tickle your fancy. So I'm certainly open to any thoughts or questions or anything about the project. You guys have taken a look at the Kickstarter page. So I don't know. You let me know what you think. Well, I want to thank you as well for coming on and talking about it. I you know, I I've been a fan of your work for a while. You know, I have I own work of yours.

The poem 'A Hunter's Tale' centers on reciprocated empathy and unlikely understanding between a hunter and his prey, with themes of dialogue and understanding across different viewpoints.

high confidence · Ryan Claytor describing the poem's central narrative and message

Sergio Aragonésperson
Alma, Illinoisevent
Mr. Jones Watchesproduct
Williams Whirlwindgame
Stern Spider-Mangame

medium · Ryan Claytor cites Oriana Leckert, Kickstarter comics outreach manager, speaking to his university class in September 2021

  • ?

    collector_signal: A Hunter's Tale offers original interior page artwork at $150 per page with signed book and limited prints included; first time Claytor has offered original art in crowdfunding campaign

    high · Ryan Claytor states: 'This is the first time that I am offering my original artwork from the book in a Kickstarter or a crowdfunding campaign'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Ryan Claytor expresses discomfort with Pro/Premium/LE tiering in pinball industry as 'capitalistic' but acknowledges business rationale; prefers single-platform model

    high · Direct quote: 'I wish that pinball could exist on a single model platform rather than... pro premium LE type of thing. But you know, the market's there. So they're giving the market what it wants.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Ryan Claytor gravitates toward autobiographical, biographical, and historical nonfiction comics; states difficulty creating pure fiction despite enjoying reading it

    high · Claytor: 'I have a hard time with fiction creating it... whenever I sit down to create, it's typically true to life, nonfiction stuff'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Ryan Claytor serves as university professor teaching comics courses; maintains active engagement with students and reader community (Elephant Eater Champions)

    high · Mentions teaching university courses, speaking guest (Oriana Leckert), and community feedback sessions with Elephant Eater Champions

  • ?

    content_signal: Ryan Claytor actively promoting A Hunter's Tale across pinball, comics, watch, and other niche communities; deliberate strategy to reach diverse audiences

    high · Direct statement: 'I'm speaking with more than just comics podcasts, pinball podcasts. I'm talking to watch folks.'

    • 4:03
    Obviously, this book is not necessarily pinball related, but I think you're entrenched in the pinball hobby with the work that you've done for, you know, certain pinball. going back to the pinball podcast your project with nick baldridge the coin op carnival you're the watches you've done with mr jones um two as of now um so certainly like any any project that you're working on i think is something that is something that the pinball community can support um i think the the kickstarter um i think it looks great i know that you know the kickstarter basically gives you a preview of eight pages. And knowing your work and knowing the process that you go through to create your work, I will say I think a lot of the rewards that people are able to get, one, just being able to purchase a book for $10, which is one of the rewards, is a really affordable, almost no-brainer way to support you as a creator. But I'm curious, as a creator, going to Kickstarter, because I know you've used it before, what do you like about that platform as a way to publish your work?
    5:29
    Yeah, well, thank you for highlighting the physical rewards here. So as Taylor mentioned, you can get this book for 10 bucks and that includes shipping. So like you're out the door for 10 bucks flat. Yeah. Um, I had a number, I had a number of people telling me early on, that's not enough. You need to charge more. And I don't know, I just want this to be a really easy buy. Like Taylor just said, I want this to be a no brainer for people. Um, so anyway, I hope that works. I hope that gets it into more people's hand because ultimately that's what I want to do is spread my grandfather's poem as far and wide as possible. That's why I'm speaking with more than just comics podcasts, pinball podcasts. I'm talking to watch folks. And ultimately, I think this poem, this comic, can speak to many different audiences. So there's that. And thank you again, Taylor. But why do I go back to Kickstarter? Well, I am very interested in comics, but I'm really interested in independent alternative comics. So like not necessarily the big two like Marvel and DC, all the superhero stuff that, you know, we all know about, but more like what are independent voices talking about? What is happening in underrepresented communities? What comics are not necessarily on the shelves of the comic book store because they don't have a wide distribution. And Kickstarter has become this place for independent comics online. It has shown a huge growth. Like I had Oriana Leckert speak to my university comics class just a few months ago, and she is the comics and community outreach manager at Kickstarter. So she's got her fingers on the pulse of this. And she was talking about stats where comics projects would fund successfully on Kickstarter around like the 50 percent mark, like about half of them would fail. And that was, you know, for a number of years. And then they slowly started increasing to like low to mid 50 percent success rate. But then in 2020, it hit this like very high 60s, I think low 70s, like 71 percent success rate in 2020. And when I talked to her just a few months ago in September of 2021, she was saying that 2021 was already tracking to beat 2020. And I think that the success rate of comics projects on Kickstarter is due in large part to this community that's building up around it. You know, in pinball, we're used to this tight knit pinball community. You know, everybody coming together, a show comes out, you bring your machine, you share what you have with the world in hopes that more people learn about pinball. Well, it's kind of a similar community that's being built up on Kickstarter around comics because you look at somebody who's launching a comics project on Kickstarter and you can see their stats. Like they've launched one or two or five campaigns, but they've backed like 50 or 75 or 100 campaigns. So they're not just coming to Kickstarter and asking for money. They're a part of this community. And when you go to different communities within Kickstarter, like a tech community or something else, those stats are way different. Like I see a ton of tech projects coming out on Kickstarter where it's like first project, zero backed, like they just have no investment in the community. But comics are very different from that. And I think that that's a really exciting thing to be a part of.
    9:16
    And also on top of that, Kickstarter is a platform that like when I first started doing comics and like the early odds, it was just it was nonexistent. And you had to, you know, bootstrap everything yourself, meaning pay for the printing. But with Kickstarter, it's like if you succeed in your funding goal, you instantly have the print run of your book paid for. and then maybe more. It's a heck of a promotional platform in addition to a fundraising platform. So for all those reasons, that's why I go back to Kickstarter and I'm so excited about it. When you were setting your goal, how did you come up with your goal? Just because it's like looking at it, it's kind of an odd number to me. Is it just like you're looking at publishing a certain number or yeah, what is it like? Is there just a hard number that you're aiming for?
    10:16
    Yeah. So if you scroll down on that Kickstarter page, I know it's a little bit long, but there's actually a pie chart that I illustrated explaining exactly where each portion of the money comes from. And I was very exact about it. So the majority of it is going to fund an offset print run. So for those who are not, you know, print nerds like me, offset printing is like professional printing, the way that, you know, big published books are printed. It typically means that you have to print like at least a thousand copies before it makes sense to offset print something versus print on demand or digital printing, which are essentially the same thing. You can print in very low print runs, but the quality is a little bit different. It's becoming closer to offset printing in terms of quality, but I would still say that offset printing is of higher quality. So that's what I wanted to do was make an offset print run of this book. So I got that quoted for a thousand copies. And in addition to that, I also have to ship and buy shipping materials and, uh, you know, make these books get into people's hands. So I factored in, uh, shipping materials and shipping costs as well as the Kickstarter fees. So once you put all that together, the very precise number was, I think, $2,224, if I'm remembering correctly. So that's why it's kind of an odd number, because I was very precise about things and I wanted to make sure that I could cover all my costs. And if I do that, the rest is gravy. You want to talk a little bit about, because you have I am a – I collect art. I collect art in all – I mean I collect a lot of work.
    12:08
    And one of the things that I think is amazing with your project is not only the opportunity for people to buy this book at an incredibly reasonable price, but also the opportunity to buy some of the original artwork used in the book. Is that something that you have done in the past? And can you talk a little bit about some of the rewards as far as like the actual like original artwork that will be available or is available? Sure. So this is the first time that I am offering my original artwork from the book in a Kickstarter or a crowdfunding campaign. But you're right. I have every single page from the book available on the Kickstarter campaign. So if you want an interior page, you can get that for 150 bucks. And along with that, you also get a signed copy of the book and a couple of limited edition prints. So really, you're like out the door for original artwork for, you know, if you factor all the costs and plus shipping and everything, like probably under 100 bucks, which is a little bonkers. That's a little that's a little crazy. Yeah. Thank you. I mean, as a collector, as a collector of because I own some I own one of your drawings that you did for Coin Op Carnival.
    13:32
    And I, you know, I own a I really I really love to collect work done by friends of mine. Um, yeah, like when I saw 150 for an original piece of art used in a published book, I was, yeah, I was pretty blown away by that.
    13:49
    Well, thank you. I, uh, like I said, I want this to be an accessible campaign and I'm hoping that, you know, I can really make some noise about this book for all the reasons I mentioned, you know, this is a super personal project to me. But I also feel like the message in this book is something that really important and needs to be heard right now You know we all been through the past two years together Right And like not just the pandemic, but, you know, all the divisiveness that has come along with it and so many distressing, challenging times along the way, too. And the message of this book is really about coming together, having those difficult conversations with people that you're not familiar with, with outlooks that you're not in agreement with, and still trying to come to some sort of an understanding of one another. Not even an agreement, but an understanding of where one another comes from. And I think our diplomacy has just gone out the window in recent years, you know, especially when it's so easy to defriend and sort of annex yourself into your own, you know, group of like minded opinions. You know, that's that's dangerous. And I feel like this poem that was written decades ago is so resonant right now. And I really want to share that with people.
    15:35
    Can you tell us a little bit or a lot about your grandfather? And I mean, obviously, you guys had a special relationship and his story inspired you, right, to create this book. So what like what's. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about the person behind the poem.
    15:59
    Sure. Yeah, I'd love to. So I mentioned that I am not a hunter. yeah i do not tommy even knows i've been on a fishing boat with him and i did not touch the fishing pole i can't even like i can't even put the worm on the hook like i was tommy i was trying to say nothing and let you kind of take the reins because i didn't want to like pass on my uh aversion to fishing to my son i'm like yeah tommy knows how to do it so anyway thank you for teaching my son had a fish. But, but yeah, I can't even, I can't even thread a worm through a hook or if we get a fish, like holding it and having it squirm around, like none of that, I can't, I can't do any of it. But with that said, my grandfather was a hunter and that seems like we're sort of at odds, right? But when I think about his story, you know, he grew up in the Midwest in a tiny town called Alma, Illinois, and he was diagnosed with tuberculosis at a very young age, you know, in the early 1900s. And so when I, from my understanding, that's pretty much a death sentence at that time. So they told him, if you have any chance of getting better, you've got to head out to the deserts of Arizona and hope that the dry desert air will dry up your TB and make you better. Maybe. Who knows? Get out of here. So off he went to live off the land in Arizona. And when he was out in the desert, you know, he had to fend for himself. He had to hunt his own food and he had a .22 rifle with him. But he could only take one shot because there was a game warden who would hear that shot. And if he took a second shot, the game warden could find him and bring him in, put him in jail. And then he would not be out in the climate that he needed to be. And then that would be, you know, life threatening, literally. So because he could only take one shot at his food, he got to be a really good shot. Like he was an expert marksman. And so, you know, if I put myself in those shoes, like essentially having a death sentence and being tossed out into the wilderness, would I, you know, woman up and start killing my own food? And yeah, I probably would. I probably would do that and get over myself. You know, I understand that I am in a very privileged position to be so removed from that, so removed from harvesting my own food, whether that's vegetables or animals or what have you. It just shows up. You know, I don't think we think about that a whole lot. But, you know, when I think about my grandfather's story, you know, it was just such a wildly different way of being in the world. And that's the kind of thing that I hope people can take some time to think about. You know, there's a different opinion for me. Well, they're stupid. Well, maybe not. Maybe they just have a different experience than you do. So instead of condemning people so quickly, I hope that this will encourage folks to take a minute and think a little bit before casting judgment. Your grandfather as a writer, like as a poet, was this something that you knew about? like you had a relationship with him that and this was part of it because as a creative and having a grandfather that was a creative a creator creative um yeah did you guys share that or was it something like later in life i think one of the things that's really interesting about like general generational separation like you know not your not your parents but your grandparents like when we're when i think about my grandparents when i became a part of their life they already lived like several lives, right? Especially like when you get older and you look back and you're like, oh, wow, back when I was younger, I was a different person. So I'm interested in knowing like what type of connection as a creative you had with your grandfather also as a creative. Yeah, totally. And you bring up some really good points there too about living multiple lives and changing so much. This is a conversation my wife and I were just having today. I was, I was telling him I was looking back through some early comics of mine. They're autobiographical. And there was some stuff on in there I was writing about. And I was just cringing so hard, like, how could I have ever been so naive and brazen? And what was I thinking? And so it kind of made me think about my own students. I teach university courses. And sometimes I wonder the same thing like, man, was I ever that dumb? And yeah, I sure was. Looking back at some of my own documentation, I was an idiot. So it makes me think about the way I interact with people in a different way. But to get back to your question about my grandfather and his creative side. Yeah. So his poetry was something he did later in life. And I grew up having this booklet of his poetry that was essentially like a self-published zine that was put out by his church. they collected a number of his poems and you know it was like one of the half page folded stapled numbers and it probably had like I don't know maybe two or three dozen poems in it and that booklet is something that I essentially grew up with and remember always remember it being in my life so the poems have always been there for me but I think when he was alive I was not old enough or maybe mature enough to really sit down and have a conversation with him about that. And I wish I could, I wish I was able to have the wherewithal or have him in my life longer so that I could have had a better conversation with him about that. You know, in a way, maybe this collaboration on this comic is, you know, somewhat my attempt to do that. Um, so, so yeah, the poems have always been with me as long as I can remember. Uh, but as far as, you know, getting down in the creative weeds with my grandfather, that never happened. Yeah. But it was, I mean, your, your growth as an artist um was that something that like he was aware of was there a connection there by the time he passed away i was uh i think i was around high school age and you know i was uh doing art but i don't know that i could classify myself as an artist you know i mean What are you doing when you're in high school? You're figuring things out and doing dumb stuff. And I was the same way. So I don't think I had really created anything of note at that point, at least in my opinion.
    23:42
    When I was five years old, I was drawing my Care Bears. And when I was eight years old, I was drawing Donald Duck. And when I was 10 years old, I was drawing Gru the Wanderer and trying to be Sergio Aragones. But it was nothing that was from a personal voice. It was just me trying to figure things out and emulate my heroes, because at that time you haven't had enough life experience to really say anything that interesting. I don't think at least I didn't at the time anyway. So, yeah, I don't think he really saw me. I wish I could have shared Point Op Carnival with him. I wish I could have shared this collaboration with him. That would have been amazing. Did you because your work, a lot of your comic work is very it's autobiographical. And at what point in your career did you get to that? Because I mean, you know, people who do self portraits, who can reflect on themselves in such a way that they can express it and.
    24:47
    Are willing to share that with people that they don't know is kind of a big step, I think. And like where in your creative process did you decide that that is kind of the way that you were going to take your comics?
    25:06
    Very early as I started creating comics, that was kind of the route that I took. Shortly after undergrad, I was getting back into comics in a big way. You know, I read when I was a kid, you know, the Disney Duck books really early, probably six, seven years old. And then as I got a little bit older, maybe eight or nine, I started appreciating satire a little more and started reading stuff by Sergio Aragonese, who, you know, he's been doing the Mad Marginals and Mad Magazine for over 50 years and doing his own creator work on Grew the Wanderer for over 30 years at this point. and um so that was around the time i got to high school i kind of left comics for about a decade and when i got back into them shortly after college uh i started reading a whole bunch and uh the things that i was gravitating toward were non-fiction comics you know like autobiographical or biographical or historical or historical fiction type of comics like those are the things I found myself reading the most and enjoying the most. So when I started trying my hand at comics, it was kind of a logical step to try my hand at the thing I was enjoying, which was auto bio and true to life comics. So that's kind of how I started doing auto bio stuff. Um, but it's, it's, it's been a little bit since I've done auto bio comics. Um, you know, when I stepped away to do coin-op carnival i i'd say that was still non-fiction but um it wasn't autobiographical and then the same is true with this comic too this this is not about me um it's really visualizing my grandfather's words um so so it's been a little bit since i've dipped my toe into into autobiography i guess it's just a matter of like it's um I mean, I think of comics and like traditionally you think of like characters like I don't, you know, fiction, fantasy, you know, but your work is. Yeah, it's it's I don't know what the genre is called that for comics.
    27:24
    Yeah, it's it's pretty grounded in reality. Yeah, I would say I have a hard time with fiction creating it. I don't mean intaking it. I love reading fiction, but whenever I sit down to create, it's typically true to life, nonfiction stuff. I was kind of curious because knowing both of you for several years and like we said, we're openly we are all friends. And I think that's one of the reasons we're so happy to have you on here is because I was always taught like when your friends are doing something, you support them in any way you can. So we're happy to have you do that. I don't have the creative brain that you guys have. That just not the way I work It why my degree is in history And I love history But I think like when I break down what history is it really storytelling And like how much of that was a factor and motivation for you in creating this You know like you said you retelling your grandfather story but how important was that for you to create that to share with your son now
    28:28
    Yeah, I mean, there's definitely thoughts of legacy here. I mean, I want my grandfather's work to live a longer life than he ever expected it would. And I think by printing a thousand of these things, at least that'll get into a thousand more hands than he thought they would, you know.
    28:51
    And I hope that my son appreciates that sort of legacy. And who knows, maybe he'll continue it. Maybe he won't. I have I have no idea what he'll do with his life. My son is eight right now. So, you know, lots of years ahead. But yeah, hopefully he'll have some sort of appreciation for the creativity in his family's past. I know my dad does. I've been sharing these pages with my dad, of course, every step of the way. And my favorite line of his has been, I can't wait for you to finish this book so I can brag about my dad and my son in one sentence.
    29:30
    So it should be fun. Oh, go ahead, Tommy. I was just going to say one thing I was going to recommend coming from our pinball community, as you said, you have your precise budget down there. Has there been any thought of copying the premium LE pro style models and doing this as like a first run LE or anything like that to motivate support? Has that crossed your mind? Thanks to the pinball world. So I have definitely had suggestions, and there is a parallel in the comics world where typically they will not just release a comic with a standard cover. They'll also release it with a variant cover or two variants or multiple variants. And so the mega collectors will want everything. And so they'll buy a cover A, B, C and Z, you know. But that just reeks of capitalism to me and makes me really uncomfortable, especially with a project that is this personal. I don't want any scent of like, oh, you're just trying to capitalize off this thing and milk us for as much money as you possibly can. It's not something I'm interested in. Even the variant trend in comics makes me very uncomfortable. I never buy variants. As a comic book reader, I just get the standard cover.
    31:02
    I understand that I could likely make more money if I do that, but I'm very uninterested in the collectorism elements of both of those hobbies, both pinball and comics. I wish I would I understand why pinball companies make variants, you know, for lack of a better word, different models. It's supported them. It's allowed them to keep doing what they're doing. And I think that's really great. I wish that pinball could exist on a single model platform rather than, you know, pro premium LE type of thing. But, you know, the market's there. So they're giving the market what it wants. And I am not an LE market. I mean, you know from my collection, I am a sub-pro market. I am very interested in electromechanical games. It's not to say I don't have solid state games. I've got a Williams Whirlwind and a Stern Spider-Man behind me right now. But yeah, I long for the days of the single model platform. I feel like it's more simple, maybe a little more respectful. Maybe that's going a little bit far, but I wish they just chuck everything in the machine they wanted to make and put that out.
    32:31
    But but you're still I mean, not necessarily an LE model like you're talking about. I am I am a crazy collector, so I do like to collect variants. But but you're still giving people the opportunity to have something like that is one of a kind. I mean, like going back to the ability to purchase like original drawings is still an opportunity for people to have something that is absolutely an original. So there's completely. Yeah. So there's still I mean, I really I like that idea of like, look, like the comic is going to be the comic. I'm not you know, there's no need to like create a there's there's no reason to have a variety of different ones because it's like it's this is going to stand alone. This is going to be this is what it is. But you are giving people the opportunity to have something above and beyond just that book. You know, so there is there is that opportunity for people to to have that like special relationship with a project. That's one of the things that I really enjoy about collecting artwork by friends of mine is like I have a lot of friends who are creatives and the fact that like I can have something that somebody made is – I don't know. There's something really special about that. There's a connection that you have to the artist when you have a piece that they sat down, spent the time to – I mean, one of the things that's interesting is like looking at the – because the Kickstarter is offering these pages. Like when you sit down and you start looking at the pages and start looking at the details or just like, you know, the the lines, the pencil lines or the way that you're the way because I have the piece that I own of yours from the coin op carnival. It's like there's like a blue it's like there's a blue undertone drawing. I don't know what that's called, but it's like when you start looking at the piece of art and like knowing that the artist sat down. And their hand went to that paper and created that line like that is a you have a physical connection to that artist, which I think is incredible that you're offering them up. And, yeah, I don't know. There's something that's that's special about that.
    34:58
    Yeah. So thank you for saving me for myself. I will occasionally get into this like myopic rut of thinking, well, I think this way. So everybody else must think this way. And so if you saw in the tiers, there's a standard book level. But there's also the next tier up is a signed book with a couple of limited edition prints. And that came about because I was having a conversation with some super readers of mine. And I have this group who's very interested in my work called the Elephant Eater Champions. And we were having a meeting several months back and I was showing them previews of the book and talking about this Kickstarter and asking for their thoughts. And somebody said, are you going to offer a signed version or can you can you offer that for more money? And I'm like, I don't know about that. And like I like who wants my signature? I don't know. And they're like, well, we would want your signature and we would pay for it. And I'm like, well, I don't buy books with signatures. I just want to read the thing. And but the whole conversation really opened my eyes to, OK, that's right. Like mine, my opinion is not the only one. And if folks are interested in, you know, a more collectible piece, like with a signature or limited edition prints, or as you said, a one of a kind piece of original artwork, then why not provide that? So in my mind, having the signed book along with some additional content, like those limited edition prints, made it okay in my mind to raise the price a little bit for a signed book, because I still feel really weird about charging for my signature. Like whenever I see people at conventions, at least in the before times, I haven't been to a convention since, you know, Pinball Expo 2019.
    37:06
    You know, of course, I would sign anything for free. I'm happy to do that. But in this day and age where it's a little harder to see people face to face, then, OK, like, I don't know. That made more sense to me when somebody else said, well, I love collecting signatures. I love for my books to be signed. And I can understand that because I've, you know, got signatures from my favorite authors. So if somebody feels that way about my work, it that's super flattering. So so that's why that whole reward tier is there. Um, while we're speaking of reward tiers, um, I wanted to highlight the next one up, which is the book club reward tier. Uh, I'm super excited about that one. And that's actually another suggestion by, uh, one of my champions, you know, the, this elephant eater champions group, a fellow named Paul Patty, who's actually in the pinball community, uh, said, have you ever thought about a book club tier? And I'm like, well, tell me about that. And he's like, well, you know, like we're all meeting on Zoom here right now. And you could potentially put up a limited tier where X number of people could hop in and then you would do like an artist presentation, have a book discussion with X number of people. And as soon as he said it, I thought that is the most brilliant idea. I've never seen it done on Kickstarter before. And once it happens, I cannot imagine any campaign being done without that reward tier moving forward. Like, it's just so brilliant and simple. So anyway, all that to say, I'm super excited to meet with a couple handfuls of people. I'm limiting that reward tier to 10 people so it doesn't get too big and unwieldy and, you know, we can all actually have a conversation together.
    39:05
    But but, yeah, I'm I'm planning some presentations and some behind the scenes stuff and some yet to be seen stuff to show folks who who who nab that reward.
    39:17
    And yeah, so I wanted to highlight that one, too, just in case that was a little too far down in the scroll.
    39:27
    I would like to highlight the one above it, which is the insanely affordable. What is it? It's like seven copies for thirty five dollars. I'm not sure that you're really getting the whole idea of like trying to raise money by doing that.
    39:47
    I I yeah, I'm not sure you're doing that correctly, but I don't I don't know, man. Have I mentioned I hate money?
    39:59
    No, look, I think your Kickstarter is, I think it's, like I said before, it's a no-brainer just to support you.
    40:11
    You know, I know that I supported your son. Your son had a Kickstarter. Owen had a Kickstarter. And, you know, like going back to what you're saying about the community, the comics community and how everybody's kind of supporting each other through Kickstarter, it really is a great platform for self-publishing. and to support, I don't know, like when I, you know, when I first, when you first sent us the Kickstarter and I scrolled down and I was like, $10 for a copy shipped to me. I mean, that's kind of, that doesn't seem right. And, you know, but, but going back to what you're saying, you know, it's kind of like, I go back to the old, like, you know, I'm, I'm a big Fugazi fan and going back to like, you know, Fugazi, they would have these shows for $5. And the whole idea was like, look, we don't need to make a ton of money. We just, we want to make music. And that's what I get from your Kickstarter and, you know, this campaign. It's like, this isn't about making money. This is about publishing a book. This is about getting something out there that's affordable, that is, like you said, it's going to, you know, you're creating a legacy. You're having something that can live on and going and then touching on the signature thing one of the things that i love about the idea of having signatures um especially by people i know it is that like that idea of like your hand spent that time that moment scribbling your name you know like it was i don't know maybe it's kind of a silly thing but there's something that's special to me that gives me a connection to the artist who's made that work. Um, so yeah, the Kickstarter, I think is, um, you know, we, we obviously wish you nothing but success. And, you know, I think that it's, I really appreciate the fact that you're, you're willing to put your stuff out there and say, look, like as a community, we can get this done and we can make this. And then it's like, it's a cycle where it's like, everybody's do it for the next person who's trying to get something published And I think I gotten into I think because knowing you and knowing you know like John Chad like I gotten more into the kind of underground comic scene And it is really a really passionate group of people who are all I mean so much amazing stuff And it is great that you guys are all able to kind of support one another in such a way that there's a lot of really, really good material being created right now. completely and by groups and people that were would never get the time of day from a major publisher yeah right yeah and that doesn't make it any less valid uh just because it's not commercially viable doesn't mean it's not interesting or important or you know anything so yeah i just think that kickstarter is this great democratization tool to allow many different voices, uh, a larger platforms. I could talk about Kickstarter till I'm blue in the face, but I'm a big fan. Um, all right. So, you know, I think everybody should support the Kickstarter. Um, I do want to talk, I want you to talk a little bit about your background, like just projects you've been doing. Um, I mean, you've, you've had a lot of incredible projects that you've been working on um but also like where elephant eater comics came from and where elephant eater comics will be going in like what you see like in the next couple years totally um so hopping in the way back machine 2004 was the first comic i put out that was my the first issue of my autobiographical series called And Then One Day. And I know Elephant Eater Comics is kind of a funny name, but it's based on a saying that my dad would tell me and all my brothers and sisters as we were growing up. He'd say, well, it's like eating an elephant. You do it one bite at a time and before you know it, you're done. So I kind of keep that phrase in mind for many points of my life, you know, from going through school to getting a degree to making a book to, you know, raising a kid and, you know, all sorts of different stuff is it's applicable to. So anyway, that was a really meaningful life philosophy to me, which is why I named my company that. And, you know, over the years, I've done autobiocomics mainly and then hopped into Coin Op Carnival with Nick in 2019 is when we published it. We were working for two and a half years before that on it. But so that was my one of my more recent publications with Nick that I'm so gosh darn proud of. I mean, I just cannot tell you what a joy, a pleasure, a source of pride Coin-Op Carnival is for me. I think Nick would probably say the same thing to you.
    45:41
    But the whole reason this more singular solo project came about is because we were working on Coin-Op Carnival number two. and it got a little derailed because we were working with someone who decided they wanted to step away from the project and this is not nick nick and i are still just you know the best of friends um but this person decided that they wanted to step away which meant that a bunch of artwork that i created was rendered unpublishable and i had everything from spot illustrations to full page illustrations to double page spreads that were just detailed as all get out to full blown pages of comics. And it's all useless. I can never show it. It's done. So that knocked a lot of wind out of my creative sales when that happened. And if you look back about a year ago, when I started doing like a gaming podcast and like, that's what was going on in my life. Like, I don't even know if I knew exactly what was happening then, but in looking back, I could see like, oh, okay, I needed some space from comics and I just needed to sort of like venture out on my own for a minute. And, um, you know, I, I had a, a, a come to Jesus moment with Nick where I told him, I'm like, look, man, I think I just need to do a solo project right now. And that was really, really hard for me to do because I love Nick. He's, you know, he's not just a friend. He's family. And so is his family. But, you know, Nick, as well as I do, he's he's a saint. And yeah, he was just so, so cool about it. So anyway, I launched into this a hunter's tale project and I've been sharing pages with him ever since I did. And once this project is wrapped, you know, you were asking about what's in store for Elephant Eater Comics and Ryan Claytor moving forward.
    47:52
    So after this project wraps and I fulfill all the orders, I'm going to be working with Nick on a couple of things. One thing we have in the fire is Robo Frenzy, and he has done all of his work, which means I should probably rewind a little bit. Robo Frenzy is our scratch build electromechanical arcade game that we conceived of together. And he is doing the mechanics and I am doing the artwork for it. So I'm going to be working on artwork for that, as well as jumping back into Coin Op Carnival number two. Those are going to be next projects. I don't know exactly when those will see the light of day, so I can't give you any dates on those. But that's where my mind's going to be after a Hunter's Tale.
    48:45
    I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that's when Nick went on his rampage of programming P3 games as well.
    48:52
    Nick is a force of nature. He was doing that even before I had my existential artist crisis. Yeah, I cannot keep up with him. I don't know that anyone can. He has multiple projects in the fire at any one time because no one can keep up with him. I cannot art as fast as he writes. I cannot art as fast as he programs or builds or anything. You know, I'm I'm the weak link in all our projects. If you watch Nick play DDR, you will understand how quickly that his brain triggers because it is out of this world. Like it is. It's amazing. I mean, I'm really fortunate that Nick is like about a 15 minute drive from me and I cannot wait to get back over there now that like everybody's getting vaccinated and stuff. But yeah, it's like you walk into Nick's space and it's neat. It's tidy. But then he starts like showing you like the projects and you like see the new – you're like, wait, was that new?
    50:08
    What's going on? And like where are you doing all these things? And where is the time? Yeah, it's pretty impressive. And I know that Coin-Op Carnival really just consumed you guys. Um, and it's, yeah, it's like, you can see the passion in that project, um, which is, it's still like one of them, one of my favorite like things in my collection. Um, yeah, I, I can't say enough about what you guys did with that. And I, and I'm just super excited to add, uh, the hunter's tale to my collection as well. So I will, I will be getting a, I will be getting a signed copy. Um, yeah, I will be getting a signed copy for sure. But look, I think we've got to wrap it up for the Kickstarter. Certainly, like, cannot wait to talk to you again where we can talk more about, you know, just what you've been doing in pinball with, you know, your watch releases and the neon and all the other projects you have going on. But, yeah, wish you nothing but success with the Kickstarter. And I have no doubt that you will succeed. and yeah, look forward to having a copy of your book in my hand.
    51:24
    Thank you so much, Taylor. That means a lot to me that Coin-Op Carnival is among your favorite. That's so cool for me to hear because, you know, Nick and I just poured everything we had into that and we can't wait to do another one. So thank you for those words. And I would love to talk with you about watches or neon or pinball illustration or whatever next time. But just to give you a little scoop, Taylor, because I know you were a buyer of Ricochet, which is my most recent watch, the robots playing pinball. Yes. Just to give you a brief scoop, Mr. Jones Watches is doing a reissue of that and it should be out. If not by the time this podcast airs, then very, very soon. We're looking at, you know, very early 2022 for a Ricochet reissue. So there's a little scoop for you and your listeners.
    52:22
    Man, I will – see, now I'm like, as the collector, I'm like, well, I have to have both. I'm really – I'm like, I missed out on the last one by 14 minutes, so I'm getting on it here. I scooped that, man. Like, I was on top of it. And I will say, like, their ordering process, not to dive into that a little bit, but their ordering process, like, I didn't understand because, like, I was like, oh, over here I choose – You choose the number because it's a limited edition. So you choose a number. And then I chose like number nine or something because that showed it as available. And then I went to check out and it wasn't. And so I was like, oh, somebody got that. And then I just started like trying like I was like, OK, OK. And then finally I was like, nobody's going for number 42 or something like that. And so that's that's the way I got it. And, yeah, it sold out so quick. And then people, yeah, I was watching and people were like, wait, are they, are they gone? And it was like, yeah. Um, and I had actually, I bought two, I bought two cause I didn't realize you could only buy one.
    53:27
    Uh, yeah. So I'm, um, yeah, I might have to get the other one. I'm mad. I missed the first one. I couldn't, I couldn't pull the trigger when you came out with the, um, the carnival one, which is, is, is still so great. But well, look, plug we're running out of time. So please plug once again, your Kickstarter, your Patreon and just tell people where they can they can find your work. Awesome. Yeah, thank you. So I'm on Patreon at Patreon dot com slash Ryan Claytor. And the place I really want people to go right now is a Hunter's Tale dot com. ahunterstale.com will get you to the Kickstarter campaign we've been talking about and get you a glimpse of this comic book poem by my grandfather and I. And we will put a link to the Kickstarter. We'll have it in our Instagram. We'll have it on our Facebook page. We'll plug you wherever we can plug you. So that will get done. Perfect. Thank you so much. Yeah, man. Thank you for coming on and talking to us about it. It's a great project, man. Congrats. This was super fun. I hope we can chat again soon.
    54:42
    Sounds good. We'll talk to you guys later. All right, guys. Yeah, thanks, Ryan. And yeah, so everybody check out Ryan's Kickstarter. Please support it. And yeah, until next time.
    55:01
    Sometimes I think of old friends, but they all seem the same. And I see them and they can't remember my name. I get sons just like them, I get sons just to bore I can hate them, but I've never done that before I got lots of good friends I don't want anymore Sometimes when you lie to me, sometimes I lie to you Never is enough to make a good population All these happy short lives aren't as bad as they seem And now I see blood and I hear people scream And I wake up and it's just another bad dream I can't help myself but feel sorry Because I gave up every chance I had I thought I'm moving just another step I'm a girl for health and I work on that
    56:04
    I can't help myself from feeling sorry Spirit��