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The Pinball Show Ep 175: Who Would Win? 100 Sandworms Vs 1 Gorilla

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 29m·analyzed·May 6, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

King Kong shipping with strong reviews; Dune ramping production; discussion of Stern code depth concerns.

Summary

The The Pinball Show 175 covers production updates from Stern Pinball (King Kong shipping with positive early reviews, minor log diverter fix, upcoming Q3 releases), Barrels of Fun (Dune increasing weekly production, shipping to shows and retailers), and detailed gameplay analysis of King Kong/Premium/LE including praise for layout/toys and criticism of code depth, LE differentiation, and aesthetic choices.

Key Claims

  • King Kong are shipping and receiving very positive early reviews with no notable criticism except a quick-fix log diverter issue

    high confidence · Zach and Dennis discussing Stern production updates and early player feedback

  • The log diverter issue on King Kong was caused by insufficient coil hold power and is fixed by adjusting the diverter hold power setting in menu

    high confidence · Zach explaining the troubleshooting process and Keith Elwin official fix posted on Pinside

  • King Kong and Premium production will continue through May with possible mixing of both tiers rather than sequential release

    medium confidence · Zach providing production timeline based on information from Stern contacts

  • Q3 will feature James Bond 007 (Pro)/Premiums, Jurassic Park (Pro)/Premium, Metallica Remastered (Premium/LE), and JAWS (Premium/LE)

    medium confidence · Zach citing Stern's announced production pipeline

  • Stern is planning another home version for Costco release in fall 2025, likely Star Wars with Insider Connected additions

    medium confidence · Zach referencing Seth Davis or George Gomez seminar comments about upcoming Costco home version

  • King Kong launch code is version 0.81, indicating early stage with room for substantial expansion

    high confidence · Zach noting code version and comparing to other Keith Elwin game launches

  • Stern is offering a power supply upgrade kit for Spike 2 games to make them quieter and stronger, with improvements coming standard on Spike 3

    medium confidence · Zach discussing Kong seminar information about power supply improvements

  • Barrels of Fun is increasing weekly Dune production output over the next month or two, with new orders potentially arriving by end of summer/early fall

    medium confidence · Zach reporting on Dune shipping status and production ramp from industry contacts

Notable Quotes

  • “I bumped that up to like 20 or 25 from what it was. Fix. Done. That's it.”

    Zach @ ~26:30 — Simple diagnostic and fix for King Kong log diverter issue that became widely recommended

  • “It's a fucking blast to shoot. It's an Elwynn. Of course it's going to be. But it is different, though.”

    Zach @ ~44:00 — High praise for King Kong's shot layout and flow compared to other Keith Elwin games

  • “I want color, baby. I want it to look like a Crayola box in my collection when I look down that row.”

    Zach @ ~1:10:30 — Criticism of Stern's black powder coat aesthetic choice for King Kong LE and broader collector preference for colorful trim

  • “I just think they kind of had a twofer that were helping them out. They had more staff and then they had that benefit that they just couldn't build as quickly as they used to.”

    Dennis @ ~54:00 — Analysis of why Stern's code quality improved during supply chain crisis period and may have regressed

  • “It's a placeholder. I need some more rules. Sam Stern getting kind of some flack about this right now.”

    Zach @ ~52:00 — Concern about early-stage code launch on King Kong resembling Stern's historical weakness

  • “My prediction overall on king kong it's a top five game by the end of 2025 that's a bold one”

    Zach @ ~1:16:00 — Strong market prediction for King Kong's long-term ranking trajectory

  • “Theming is better than I would have ever expected it to be. And then maybe the last thing, what I don't like.”

    Zach @ ~59:00 — Overall endorsement of King Kong's thematic execution despite design criticisms

  • “Whoever designed the acrylic design on the speaker itself, it's like Kong climbing the Empire State Building. It's bad.”

    Zach @ ~1:06:00 — Specific criticism of King Kong's speaker acrylic insert design compared to recent Stern games

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyKeith ElwinpersonKing KonggameBarrels of FuncompanyDune PinballgamePhil GrimaldipersonColin MacAlpineperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: King Kong Limited Edition units shipping to customers with positive early reception and no major defects beyond quickly-fixed log diverter issue

    high · Zach reporting LEs shipping, discussing unboxing experience, noting early reviews are 'extremely good' with only minor log diverter feedback

  • ?

    code_update: King Kong launched with v0.81 code, indicating early developmental stage with significant room for rules expansion and animation additions

    high · Zach noting code version and comparing to Keith Elwin's typical launch pattern of foundation rules then later expansion

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: King Kong receiving praise for exceptional shot flow, upper flipper mechanics, and balanced playfield layout despite some thunk elements

    high · Zach detailing specific mechanics like kickback orbit, upper flipper shots, and flow patterns; comparing to Quicksilver design tribute

  • ?

    product_concern: Community criticism emerging about Stern's return to sparse code updates at launch, reversing improvements made during supply chain crisis period

    high · Dennis and Zach discussing gaps between code updates on John Wick and Uncanny X-Men; noting regression from earlier period of consistent updates

  • ?

    product_concern: LE buyers expressing disappointment that King Kong LE lacks sufficient visual differentiation from Pro/Premium, with matte black trim receiving criticism

    medium · Zach noting community feedback about LE not differentiating itself, discussing preference for color over black, referencing his collector preferences

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.269

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:10
Let's count without rhythm. I saw your stupid little Facebook thing. Which one was it? The one where you were walking without rhythm. What are you saying?
0:19
I like how you had to superimpose the shot from the movie because no one would have known what you were doing. I know. You know what? Maybe the idea, maybe that one was a little too nuanced. I thought maybe. Like, I did it, and then when I played it back, I was like, for those that get it, will. But for those that don't, will think, what the fuck is this idiot doing? Why didn't you just, like, go out to the playground and do it in the sandbox or something? Well, I wouldn't with those shoes on. But, like... You got to walk without rhythm. And it has to be a lot of without rhythm Because if you repeat the pattern Even a long pattern the worm will move Yeah and that's why I was like I could google it and watch the video I'm just going to do it off of memory I think they'd swoop a couple times and stomp Episode 175 Oh I turned my heater off so I can freeze Yeah because it's only May It's gonna be May The pinball show Dennis Episode 175 Oh, no. Trough Jam 3. Are we ready for Trough Jam 3.0? No 3 inning? I feel like we're almost at like Trough Jam 2025 Phase 2.5. Zach, the pin side is not sure what you mean by Trough Jam. I know. What is that all about? I feel like an old surly veteran by saying Trough. Do people not know what Trough Jam is? Maybe it doesn't happen. I guess on modern games, I don't really see it all that much. It used to be pretty common, though. Yeah, I mean, it's one of the things. The Switch thing? I mean, that was pretty rudimentary. A bad multiball can result in a trough jam. My favorite comments online are like, I don't have the time to listen to the podcast. Can someone explain to me what they're referring to as this trough jam?

Phil Grimaldi (not Colin MacAlpine) was the rules programmer for Dune Pinball alongside Bowen and Eric Priepke

high confidence · Zach issuing on-air correction after listener feedback about previous episode mistatement

  • Stern's recent games have shorter gaps between code updates compared to King Kong launch code, with concerns about reverting to launch-heavy and then sparse update patterns

    medium confidence · Dennis and Zach discussing John Wick/Uncanny X-Men code update cadence and comparison to games with better update frequency

    • Zach
    person
    Dennisperson
    Pinsideorganization
    George Gomezperson
    Seth Davisperson
    Flip N Out Pinballcompany
    Jurassic Parkgame
    James Bond 007 60th Anniversarygame
    Metallica Remasteredgame
    Jawsgame
    Pinfestevent
    Loser Kid Pinball Podcastorganization
    Quicksilvergame
  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern ramping King Kong production through May with potential mixing of Pro and Premium tiers on production line

    medium · Zach reporting production timeline based on Stern contacts; noting shift from sequential tier production to mixed output

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern's LE strategy under pressure as sub-1000 unit allocations sell out quickly, but differentiation concerns suggest buyers may be price-driven rather than design-motivated

    medium · Zach discussing LE sales velocity and noting that quick sellouts reduce incentive for Stern to enhance visual differentiation

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern improving menu system interface on King Kong and offering Spike 2 power supply upgrade kits with Spike 3 improvements coming standard

    medium · Zach reporting Kong menu system improvements and power supply upgrade availability from Kong seminar information

  • ?

    product_launch: Stern planning fall 2025 Costco home version release, likely Star Wars variant with Insider Connected features, following Jurassic Park home success

    medium · Zach referencing Kong seminar source mentioning upcoming Costco home release; noting precedent with Jurassic Park home sales success

  • ?

    operational_signal: Barrels of Fun increasing Dune weekly production output over next 1-2 months to meet demand, with new orders potentially fulfilling by end of summer/early fall

    medium · Zach reporting production increase timeline and estimated delivery windows for new Dune orders

  • ?

    community_signal: Community actively fact-checking podcast content with listeners providing corrections about game credits and designers

    high · Zach issuing public on-air correction about Phil Grimaldi vs Colin MacAlpine for Dune rules programming after listener feedback

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Collector community expressing strong preference for colorful cabinet trim colors over black, with concern that black is becoming default LE choice

    medium · Zach articulating collector desire for color variety and criticizing Stern's reliance on black aesthetic across recent LE releases

    • 2:09
    You don't have time to listen to the episode, but you've got time to come into the dedicated thread for the set episode.
    2:15
    Thanks, Internet. I love you. I mean, they did find your title intriguing, I suppose. I have to issue a correction, Dennis. I flubbed something up last episode, and I don't feel good about it. I love that so many people, when you flub something, so many people will message you, and I appreciate all that message. And let me know that I did flub up. I said in our last episode when previewing Dune and talking about the release and all the things about the game, I said that Colin McAlpine was on the rules of that. Oh, with Bowen. Yeah, the team with Bowen and with Eric Pripke. I was incorrect. I don't know why I was thinking. Maybe I was just thinking about Colin. But it was actually Phil Grimaldi. He was Phil all along in disguise. How did I get the Phil above the Colin?
    3:06
    Now, that is a stupid reference that nobody will ever understand. It was the original reference. How did you get the beans above the frank? Do you know what that movie that's from? Okay. I don't remember the movie. I've heard it. So, yeah. But no one would have ever figured out when you use names instead of beans. Yeah. No. Maybe edit that out.
    3:27
    You won't. But you can leave it in the part where I suggested you do. I'm so sorry, Phil. Phil? Phil Grimaldi? Me? Needle Nose Ned? I'm sorry. I forgot you, Phil. Groundhog Day. Thank you. Woo-hoo-hoo. Colin McAlpine has nothing to do with Barrels of Fun. He is in Texas, though. Maybe that's why I was mixing it up. Or maybe because they're both genius. Maybe that's why I mixed it up. I don't know. I don't know if I've ever met either one of them in person. Maybe that's why I mixed it up. So many reasons why. But I am sorry. Listener, Colin McAlpine is over at P3 Multimorphic. And Phil Grimaldi is with Barrels of Fun. Also wanted to give a shout-out to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. Those sexy little sons of bitches over there. They've had some nice words for us, Dennis, here at the Pinball Show, about the exit that we've had of the Pinball Network, kind of closing that down. And I wanted to say thank you to them publicly about the kind words you had about the history of the Pinball Network and our goals and what we were trying to do with it. So, Scott and Josh, thank you guys. Do you have anybody you want to thank or say sorry? Sorry, too. At the opener here? No, I don't make mistakes. I just can't say words right. Westering.
    4:49
    Top stories this week. Modern. It's modern. Let's jump in there. That's my favorite. I can only talk about old games now because y'all don't let me get away with any. There was like a month before the trough jam started, Zach, where it just became, I felt 2025 was the year of judging my enunciation pronunciation. and my overall dialect.
    5:13
    It felt very aggressive. Going forward, I'm just going to use the pronunciation of the old company Stern used to own. Datter East. I'm going full Aussie. Datter. Didn't know what they do. Datter East.
    5:29
    That reminds me of the East Coast. I don't know about the Australians. Datter. Maybe it's a New Zealand thing.
    5:36
    Let's talk about Stern Pinball. Where is Marty? I was like, where is everybody at? Stern Pinball, production updates. I assume they're building King Kong. They're building a lot of Kongs over there the past couple of weeks. They did build some Jaws premiums as well a couple weeks ago, but now they're fully in on King Kong. They've been shipping and building LEs at a very brisk pace. This week, they'll probably continue building King Kong LEs. and then the rest of May is full-blown King Kong Pro and premiums.
    6:13
    Now, initially they talked about, usually, Ellie's come out, then it's pros, and then premiums. They talked about this month kind of maybe mixing it up between pros and premiums, so we may see both of them on the line. So regardless, I'm being told, everybody's like, when's my premium coming? When's my pro coming? And I say, it's going to be May. That's all I can, I don't know when it's coming, Besides just quote-unquote may. They've not said specifically, Dennis. Hmm. Why are they full of mystery? And whimsy. They must be really banking on that once Harry Potter is revealed that people will finally be able to spend their money and buy all these Kongs that no one's been allowed to order. Because no one's allowed to spend any money. They're handcuffed. Bound. And then Q3 comes. James Bond Pro and Premiums are going to get made to begin. Jurassic Park Pro and Premium. Metallica Remastered Premiums. And Jaws Premium. All in Q3. and then another cornerstone after that.
    7:09
    So, yeah, King Kong LEs are shipping. Early reviews, Dennis, are in, and overall, very positive. People like the Kong. Have you been reading that as well? Oh, yes. I don't think I've really seen any notable criticism. I did read a little bit about the log diverter issue, of course. Yeah, and that was a quick fix. But, yeah, early reviews are extremely good. people really liking the layout loving the toys max the way it shoots feels it's an elwynn so nobody's surprised by any of that uh the high expectations have been upheld people more accepting of the art package in person i'm reading uh and the feedback i'm getting they say well it looked loud in the pictures and the reveal and stuff but in person it's much more subdued and I agree in person the colors don't pop pop in person so for better or worse it is more subdued some people upset that the LE though I'm hearing doesn't really differentiate itself enough from the pro premium R packages and some voicing that they're a little bit let down by the whole matte black trim package on the LE but they do like the mirrored back glass and that is true like the le takes the cabinet one cabinet side of the pro one cabinet side of the premium it does its own art for the back glass but then they put that matte black i we'll see here in a bit i maybe agree here people also commenting dennis and listener that there's plenty of room for the code to expand the launch games are coming in at v i think 0.81 code. That's pretty early. I mean, we've seen earlier, though, with X-Men. And even .81 code on other games may even feel earlier than the .81 on this, because Keith Elwin and team, they like to get a lot of their foundation rules there, and then they fill them out later and stuff. So they give you plenty, but still, eh, we'll talk about it. And then you alluded to the whole log diverter, quick fix thing. So whenever I unboxed the one, mine, my LED, I kept on like the log that comes up and diverts the ball from the left, I guess, orbit return is what I'll call it. It diverts it to the upper left flipper. It seemed like when I was first playing it, like it dropped down too quick. And I'm like, damn, it's almost like right when the ball gets there, it drops down, it goes down the river to the left flipper rather than diverting it to the top left flipper. Hopefully, listener, you're following on what I'm trying to say. I think they understand. Do you think it was because the ball wants to live in the van down by the river? In a van down by the river. And I live in a van down by the river. See, my reference is everyone's going to understand. Hear that, Dad? We got a regular Bill Shakespeare over here. i love that god so great oh my god i want to be a writer well a lot freaking the writer hey you're that dad all right so who was that was matt foley that's right
    10:40
    There's you. There's Matt. There's you. There's Matt. I've seen that way too many times. All right, yeah. Maybe I need to just go into – so I tried to figure this out before they issued the Keith L. when, hey, here's what's happening. But I went to the menu, and I'm like, it's almost as if the diverter is not staying up long enough, right? So I looked at the settings and stuff. I'm like, okay, there is one of the settings, but there's also a hold power setting. So then I tested it a little bit more. Is it really? So I held the ball when the diverter is going to come up and see if how long it would go. and up i'm like oh well it stays up then so that's weird it's not how long the diverter comes up so i did it again and funny enough right when that ball gets that diverter it drops i'm like okay i think the ball's hitting the diverter and like prematurely making it drop so i thought maybe it's like the coil is not holding long or strong enough so when that ball hits it's enough friction to drop it down so i went into the settings and saw a little setting it said hold power coil hold power, diverter coil hold power. I'm like, that's it. I bumped that up to like 20 or 25 from what it was. Fix. Done. That's it.
    11:47
    And then a couple of customers have been having that issue, and I told them that. And then formally, Keith Elwin, I think even posted on Pinside, hey, it's just the diverter hold power. Just pop that up. I don't know what number he said officially, but he said all games moving forward from the factory will have that as default. I think it was like 25 up. So, yep, quick fix. Dennis, you have not played this game yet, correct? No, I have not. You'll probably get a Location Pro here probably in the next couple weeks. I will quickly, if you don't mind, Dennis, I want to let the listener know, we've done this segment before, but what I like, what I don't about Stern Pinball's King Kong. Any guesses as to what I might like, what I might not? Oh, let's see. You'll probably like how well it's selling. You'll probably like that. you'll probably like how it shoots you I knew liked the art you might be disappointed now that you're hearing that it's not super duper in your face saturated I'm going to say you don't like that they did the black powder coat on the LEs yeah I know you would have wanted something a little more than that if I were a book what book would I be since you can read me like one can you paint me like one of your French girls why is this a movie reference and i don't know all right think about what book i would be but you're you're pretty much probably something from dickens because it's so predictable i'll think am i tiny tim oh my god i hate charles dickens by the way i know you do that's why you pick ever ever read thanks so much thanks oh he's bad listener there you go it's because Your best buddy. I'm going to rant about it again. The problem with Oliver Twist, Zach, is that he goes through and at the end of the book, his life is better through no, like he had no arc. Like it's just random stuff made his life better. Like what sort of story is that? All I remember from Oliver Twist is more.
    13:49
    This is the movie. More, please. More. So, yes, what I do like about King Kong, it is a fucking blast to shoot. It's an Elwynn. Of course it's going to be. But it is different, though.
    14:07
    Elwynn's all... All his games are a little different. They all feel different. This one may be even further removed from the others. The differences? Is it the different-itor of the most different? Maybe. It's not to the extent of, like, Bond 60th different, but it's different. It's unique. It is flowy. You wouldn't think so, but it is very flowy. I like the kickback orbit. I knew I would like that. The whole right orbit looping around, pop, hit the Scott Leap kickback and comes back. I love that. Feeds the upper flipper, side shot, to the upper left flipper. There's a lot of flow. And the upper flipper shots are fantastic. Sometimes you get these upper flipper shots, so you get like an unsatisfying shot, and you're like, do I even really want to flip right there? Or you'll get just the one ball path shot, and it's not even repeatable. Nope. Upper flipper shots are very well done on this game. It gives you reason to want to shoot up there, and it feels good. What I don't like about Stern Pinball's King Kong, the whole Quicksilver design nod. Oh, no. I know Keith likes those classic games. It's just, for me, Quicksilver was always, I just didn't like the game because of one design element. And he took that same element and put it into King Kong. It's like this mid-play field. It's much more forgiving on this game and passable, in my opinion. But on Quicksilver, the reason I don't like that game is they put this bank, almost like a Steve Ritchie three-bank stand-up target, right in the middle of the play field. And you thunk that shit so much. It's like, oh, but they've got sweepable drops, and we've got to protect those. So we protect them with a big post. it's just right in the prime area on that right flipper and you want there to be a ramp there or something so that's how quicksilver is and i could never get past it it's too close to the flippers it's a thunk it makes it challenging but i just don't like it plus there's some weird shit going on in the back glass but for king kong so he throws that little tribute up there listener and but it's back further it's back further towards the uh the back one third and it works a hell of a lot better but it is still there you still feel it you still shoot in that general area it's like i don't even know how you spell that fuck gunk but it's a fuck gunk and they he got cute put a little thin stand-up target there so you're counting something but then on the other side of that is another fuck gunk post it's it's very much a a thunk area to me and i don't like it but design wise i understand why it's there uh i just yeah i'm not crazy about it what i do like though about king kong like a little crow toe dennis it's uh it's happening no that's a falcon uh eating crow toe on the kong gong i was poo-pooing the kong gong wasn't i you were you were all like well i just like the giant kong on the back and he with his kung fu grip, and I don't think the gong is very interesting. You didn't quite say it quite like that, but you were a little down on the gong. I thought the gong was going to be like the Mandalorian Razorcrest dangler. I really did. What's the thing in the back of your throat called?
    17:17
    Euphalale? Oh. That's an instrument. Yeah, I don't know how to pronounce it, and, you know, I can't say even the most basic of words. Euphasia? No, that's like a dementia.
    17:27
    Gangler? No, that's a basal ganglia. That's a brain cognitive term. I don't know what it is. I'll think about it. But I thought it was going to be that, but it's not that. It's not that passive. It is controllable. So the coils do make this thing so much better. It turns into a multifaceted kind of toy. It's a pass-through. It can be a kickback. It has closer feedback to what you were saying about ACDC Premium LE, the bell there, than it does just a passing through. what is that thing called?
    18:01
    Sometimes I get dehydrated and it swells up and it feels like I'm going to swallow it. I hate it. Why are you getting dehydrated? I don't know. It's dry in this house, I think.
    18:13
    My CPAP is drying out. My nasal patch. It's a whole thing. I still have a love-hate relationship with that old CPAP.
    18:22
    I'm eating crow toe on the The Kong Bong or the Gong Dong. It's fun. But what also I love is just all the different toys and mags. Like the big King Kong in the back, it's the main toy, and it does set itself apart from most everything in pinball. To me, it is, I've said it over and over, I've said it at length, it's a toy that gives the game actual character and personality. It's the Jurassic Park. It's the Rudy. It is that. So it's going to, like, that's the biggest selling feature probably of the game. So that make, even by itself, that's enough. But the other toys and mechs in this game, listener, like the spider is freaking great. That thing is awesome. How's it go, Dennis? Let's hear it again.
    19:08
    It was never to be mistaken for, like, were you thinking of the uvula? Thank you. The uvula. Okay. Yeah, that's right. The uvula. The spider is not a uvula either. You don't want to abuse a uvula. You've got to have the right motion for that uvula. Some people might mod and replace the spider with one that looks more sinister or something. No, this spider is great. I like the color.
    19:39
    I do love that they've got it on the armature that reacts to the magnet under. Yes. It's great. I don't know why any... I think Ralph was talking about it. This thing is awesome. I love that spider. because it can do a couple things again. It can do the thing, or the magnet under it can offer some pulsation, so you just throw that ball around sometimes, or it can almost hold it. I was waiting for a temporary ball hold so that you have to dislodge it like you do on Star Trek or something. Oh, okay. I hope they code it like that because that would be really cool too. They might even do that on Spider-Man, I think. Did they do that on Doc Ock? I don't know.
    20:22
    Yes. Yeah, I didn't know if they did. Well, no, I guess he holds it for a little bit, and then they do an animation, and then he drops it. Okay, more like an iron. It's been a while since I played. It's been a while since I played it.
    20:35
    But that whole thing is awesome. The gong is almost a must. I really think that thing is a must. The river, a nice little aesthetic touch there that you kind of see the shadow going under the water with the lighting. If I had this game, I would add a van. to it the whole loading train come on it all works in spades uh it i it's a loaded ass game and it shoots really well what okay stop chilling zach what don't you like well i do want to see more rules i want to see more animation it does feel a little bit stern launch cody oh it does but But it feels like almost when you start the game even, it looks like there's a placeholder on the LCD screen. I'm like, man, I don't want a placeholder. I need some more rules. And Stern's getting kind of some flack about this right now. They did so well for so long. Remember that? Like this was the complaint that everybody had about Stern like five to six years ago. And then they built up their coding crew and their teams. And they got better. But now we're back down to like John Wick, Uncanny X-Men. We're almost at a year.
    21:51
    Yeah, I think while the recruitment of the teams likely was a factor that helped, I do think that they also benefited during when production just had to be slower because all the supply chain issues, they just had a longer time for those teams to work. And we just aren't in that state anymore. We're back to the three cornerstones.
    22:11
    Yeah, that's a good point. And doing a remaster and all that. I just think they kind of had a twofer that were helping them out They had more staff and then they had that benefit that they just couldn build as quickly as they used to And that made it yeah things were coming out of the factory much more baked It felt like they spent a lot of time with their coding teams. And now that Tim Sexton's gone, who knows? Maybe they're shorter staffed. Well, they spent a lot of time on Insider Connected. I remember starting with doing badge stuff and maybe some focus was done there. And are some of these programmers working on Spike 3 and not dedicated to regular rules? It might be between operating systems.
    22:57
    I don't know what it is, but, man, I just – we need to get back into it. Because the cadence that they were on, people didn't mind when they had more consistency between code releases, right? You've heard – I've even said that. Like sometimes it's fun to see the code progress and new features, but they're going too big of gaps in between, which starts to frustrate people. And I'm just worried about that on this game as well.
    23:28
    But historically, Keith Elwin games have good cadence on the production of their code and stuff. So we shall see. But that's the one thing I'm not crazy about. But what I do like about King Kong is the theming is exceptional, listener. Even the early on code that I was kind of poo-pooing. You can see and feel the island jungle theming.
    23:52
    You can, like it's warm, darker lighting kind of stuff, which also mixes very well with their mixture of 1930s New York. That whole styling, not even Art Deco, the back glass kind of is, but like the lighting works, the coloring kind of lends itself to that theming too. You would think 1930s New York and jungle. How in the world do you mesh those? But they do here, and I think a lot of that is done with the colors and also the lighting effects. New York City is the concrete jungle.
    24:25
    Dennis Creasel, nicely done. Theming is better than I would have ever expected it to be. And then maybe the last thing, what I don't like. I agree with others. Like you were guessing, I would say, about the lack of differentiation on the LE art and trim package. I'm kind of an LE whore here.
    24:44
    Elitists want something different. They don't want premium plus mirror back glass. No, no. We like our mirror back glasses. I'm sure. And we like our dedicated LE art on the back glass, but we want something a little different on the side. And you'll hear maybe in pinball market trends another reason why I'm kind of, you know, looking at these LEs like I need a little bit more. I do appreciate all the little add-ons. I don't have to add like the glass and the shaker and the expression speaker lighting and all. I get that. Side note also, I have another one I don't like. Whoever designed the acrylic design on the speaker itself, it's like Kong climbing the Empire State Building. It's bad. I don't know who thought of it. It's bad. You can't really even make out what the hell it is. All your other stuff was really good. Jaws was great. Then you had Dungeons and Dragons was great. X-Men was great. All of these, the acrylic inserts, you know what I'm talking about, Dennis? Yeah, yeah. That covers the speaker. This one, I can't remember a time that is that bad. It does not look good.
    25:50
    I may be replacing that on mine with I don't know what, but not that. Vans. I can't even say that I'll be replacing because a lot of the secondary or the third party stuff that they put on these acrylics guys, you've got to do better man, they've got some shit designed it's almost as if people are in a race it's like the kid in school who he thinks that just because he finished his test quickest, he gets the best grade it's like you fucking moron you're an idiot it's not like that I'm exaggerating here but it feels like that. It's like just because you finish first doesn't mean you do the best. Sure, but I think they want to have their mods and such available so that – Oh, it's a – The sales are going to – It's a business. I get it. And it's – whether or not there's a long tail on any given game remains to be seen. You're right. So if they're going to be like, these people are going to buy these games, they're going to be super excited, and that's normally – back in the day, and I'm talking like 15 years ago, So you make a trip to Walmart and you buy the figurines, the zip tie to the game. So why not basically have the same thing, but it's all 3D printed. So if the ball ever strikes any stuff, it breaks right away and you just charge five times as much. And then it creates a, wait for it, trough jam.
    27:13
    Circle back there, didn't I? But Matt Black, come on, Stern, give me some color. Well, but the black works the best in this situation, Zach, with the new. I guess. But no, figure something else out. They could have done glossy. No, I don't want black. Like when you texture your black pro and premium trim level, I don't want black. Only in certain circumstances when it absolutely makes sense. Like we just had it like Dungeons and Dragons. Black. Rush. Black. Everything. John Wick. Black. Everything's black. There's nothing special about it. Look, these LEs are selling out now that they're sub-1,000 units. Don't need to go to the effort. If this means you guys have to go back to whatever is stockpiled gold, no, don't do that. Keep the black coming. I don't want that nasty old mustard. I don't want that shit. Man, even on my Godzilla. Godzilla, we're going to give you silver. No.
    28:17
    Give me color, baby. I want color. I want it to look like a Crayola box in my collection when I look down that row. I try to keep the purples away. You try to put the yellow Avengers Ellie next to the Stranger Things purple. That really compliments. Oh, let's sprinkle in a little red here. And that's what I like. Some of your listeners know what I'm talking about, too. Whoa, those are two clashing reds. You don't want to set those. Let's spread those apart a little bit. check out the unboxing video uh short that i did on flipping out pimples facebook youtube instagram and tiktok my prediction overall on king kong it's a top five game by the end of 2025 that's a bold one that's a it's a good prediction there that'd be a close call you think it'll hit it um yeah i bet it can get in i don't know if it'll stay in it but i bet it will be in it traditionally they get enough reviews and it'll be in it and then it fades goes down so we'll sure um but ellen's games tend to i mean he's got a lot in the top 10 so yeah yeah for those wanting to see this game being played you're in luck streaming this week on flipping out pinball youtube joel is going to be getting his hands on king kong le it's going to be it's going to be I mean, come on, quintessential Joel and Jared streaming this game. It's a lot of fun. They've been streaming Lord of the Rings lately. People have been loving that. I'm even, possibly, there may possibly, listener, you've got to be here. It's going to be Wednesday at 8 Central, I believe, this Wednesday, 8 Central. If we get enough people in there, I may be giving away a topper and a play field. Get the gong out of here. It may happen. continuing on with Stern Pinball they improved their menu system on Kong did you see this? I read about it looks a lot better it's going to take a while to get used to because I know where everything is like which adjustment is this a feature adjustment or a game adjustment where's the trough out kick thing and Stern why are you still dropping that damn thing by default down to 176 or 160 why are we still like at 220 to tear up the clear coat in a shooter lane why can't anybody explain this to me Dennis? It's going to take some getting used to but it does look quite better. Stern will be selling a kit also to upgrade the power supply. They're improving the power supply in Spike 3 and they're just letting people know if you do want to upgrade that power supply to be quieter and stronger you can on the Spike 2 games. They'll be offering that. And then they also, I think this was Seth Davis during the Kong seminar thing, another home version is coming this fall to Costco. Might have been George Gomez in an interview. But what do you think about that? Must be a success for them to have the Jurassic Park home in Costco. They're doing it again. What do you think it'll be? Star Wars. They already did Star Wars. So you think they'll just do that again, but add Insider Connected? Yep. They might. Listener, what do you think it'll be? We think it's Star Wars 2 Oh look at that They think it's Star Wars 2 Sorry I had some audio bleed from my headphones Let's jump over to barrels of fun Let's talk about some Dune I don't know That lady's voice Dune is shipping Dennis A couple have went to the recent show What was that Pentastic Or is it Oh what's the flea marketplace I don't know my shows Allentown? Was it Allentown? I don't know. Pinfest. It was Pinfest. Oh, the Pinfest. Oh, absolutely. The Pinfest University.
    32:11
    A couple went to that show, took a couple dealers. One of them went to flipping out pinball. So they are shipping. A couple of them are shipping. They're going to be increasing weekly production of the Dune pinball machine, the output over the next month or two. I would guess people are like, well, if I ordered one today, when would I get it? Not as bad as you may think. I think probably end of summer, maybe. You'd be looking to get one maybe early fall. But they're trying to have all of these things built by the end of the year. So end of summer, maybe even sooner. So they're going to be rolling out, pending whether they can get parts and everything. Hashtag tariffs. Feedback on this game, listener, has been phenomenal as well. People really liking this game a lot. people commenting about it being, I hear the word surprise a lot. They're surprised by how much they're liking this game. So that's good. People commenting on the build quality and the feel, the looks, overall theming, world under glass. So that's good consistency between their first and second attempt at a pinball machine. People liking the way the game shoots and all the connecting shots. I'll talk about that. The early code is the one big downside that people are discussing. It's really the only thing I'm hearing negative that people are discussing about Dune, believe it or not. People are already predicting this is or will be better than Labyrinth. They're already calling it. And that's pretty good then because Labyrinth was held in pretty high regard, especially for the first game. It got some handicap there. So I think overall, have you been hearing anything other?
    33:54
    No, not really. Yeah, mostly. Most of the complaints have been, you can group it all under code, but assets would be, I just sort of know, frustration that there just didn't feel like there was a lot from it in there.
    34:08
    Yeah, you're right. They still have the disclaimer on the LCD screen that says like the pending licensor approval.
    34:17
    What other game did that? Was that Batman 66? There was another game I thought they did. I don't know if they – I was going to say I don't know if they put that label up when James Bond came out. But there was a lot of – people really noted a lot of placeholders. I think James Bond, when it first came out, had a lot of stuff that was clearly straight out of the Stranger Things pinball machine in terms of font choices and stuff.
    34:44
    It's like, do you expect me to talk? No, I expect you to be a Demogorgon. instead of run will run pussy galore run let's jump into what i like what i don't about barrels of fun's dune pinball when you walk up to this game this is what i like this game looks sharp but but still juicy can can something be sharp and juicy that's kind of contradicts itself doesn't it dennis kind of unless we're talking about your peepee oh no i'm raunchy this week i'm sorry uh but it does like when it feels special it commands attention whenever you walk up to this thing the metallic flaking is spicy like it really uh and i did a unboxing video short on this one you got to go see that as well listener if you haven't i'm flipping out stuff because especially like I was able to show off the powder coat on the leg. Oh, man, that is something special. Even like the Evergloss decals, that whole the Radcow complimentary kind of thing, that's really nice. The printed back glass doesn't have to be a Translight. They printed a back glass. That printing is more refined than a printed Translight. So it just feels special, and it looks really, really sharp and well done. It just looks like a high-end product, which, again, having just the second game coming out of a company, that is pretty high price. What don't I like, though, about Dune Pinball? I don't know if it's just the early code, but like you said, Dennis, the film video assets, not that there's only a lack thereof of them. There's some in there, but there's going to be a lot more. but the asset quality itself doesn't look high res as I would like it to look. I don't know why. Because that, I mean, it's a blockbuster film. That is a beautifully crisp film. But maybe they're just temporary placeholders until they get approval. I don't know what it is, but it's just not as clean, the video from the film. Not as clean as I would like. What I do like about Doom Pinball, because I'm all in on this game. once I put a handful of games on it I'm like yep this is legit like this is going to be a great game I love the way it shoots it is a joy to shoot it's not as hard as like it's labyrinth we can all agree on that but it's not as easy to shoot as like a Elvira's House of Horrors either it feels to me it feels like a slightly more difficult Elwynn
    37:27
    right I'm trying to get you guys the feels of what this feels like It's not the difficulty of a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Borg, or even a Ghostbusters. Not that bastard difficulty. But it's going to keep you on your toes more like a Tron, maybe a Guardians of the Galaxy. You see where I'm kind of squeezing this in, Dennis?
    37:47
    Yeah. Okay. So it's tricky, but it's enjoyable tricky. It's not frustrating tricky like Labyrinth was commented as or Ghostbusters or Team NT. so I really like shooting this game it's filled with change states probably like a record amount it's almost Godfather-esque with how many different things can change the trajectory and the path of the ball it can hold it here where you didn't think there was a hold it can throw it here but then stage it and then throw it down another wire form into the outlying way another ball is being thrown out oh that's a ball lock there That's cool. Now it went to the scoop hole. Then where's it coming out? Oh, it's coming out over there. I'm kicking it over there, and then it uses the ball to kinetically kick it to another thing. Now the ball's sitting in a fork. Oh, I hit it with another ball, and then there's a magnet. Like, it's just, it's very visually pleasing to shoot and kinetically satisfying. Even the ramps don't just go up and come back. They're whirling around. It feels like sand dunes shifting and skewing and turning. Man, it feels good. There's a magnet in the back. Where'd the ball go? Oh, there's a little subway back there. I love the way this thing shoots. And I love that it has some difficulty there. What don't I like, though? Of course, code again. But I want more call-outs. Oh, no. I want more cut sequences from the film. It doesn't feel like there's hardly any call-outs. With that many diverters and the balls stopping mechs that I was just gushing over, I want to see scenes from the film play. I want them to introduce you to a mode. I want them to stop you mid-mode. And they're like, you've got one more big shot to conclude the sequence that we loved of the film or this event. Then you've got that shot, boom, and you complete it. Then they give you a video sequence payoff and a whole light show. That's what I expect. I don't even want that. I expect that by year's end or sooner. We need more of that. But what I do like, you can already tell, the sound and lighting, super immersive on this game. It is, I think it was, who was it, Kinesis, that Colin was saying, like it's a cinematic experience. And I totally agree. I don't know if it's there quite yet, but I think that's where it's going with some of the sound and lighting. you can tell where it's headed. And I do completely love that because I love the world under glass and I love immersion. And I cannot wait to see that expanded upon.
    40:28
    And then the last thing, what I don't like. Okay, I'm beating a dead horse here. Who beats a dead horse? Where did that phrase even come from? I don't. What sick bastard thinks that a dead horse is worthy of continued mutilation? I don't understand it. Maybe they didn't know it was dead. Violence without purpose.
    40:52
    There's just not enough there with code and rules. No. I can see where it's going. It's going to be great. But it feels like it's going to take some time.
    41:01
    Unlike Stern, they're not shipping 1,000 units in the next two weeks. It's going to be fine. But right now, everything checks out. Big-ass green checks on all these boxes, except for this category. and argue if you want, if that's acceptable, if it's unacceptable. I'll leave that to you, listener. But for me, that's like, damn it, we're right there.
    41:28
    So it's almost like presenting you the most beautiful, yummy-looking cake, and all you can do is dip your little pinky in there before the party starts. I just want to tear my face into that thing. you ever been ears deep in a in a cake like that dennis no moist no and i've never been in one of those families where you know sometimes they try and shove the kid's face in the cake that's like a thing when they're you're old i don't get it it seems like a it seems like a well-known i mean like in older people oh like the whole yeah yeah yeah maybe maybe it's a cultural difference. It just seems like a waste of a cake. I don't know. It does. I don't like when people go putting their fingers in a cake. Come on, man. Yeah, no, I don't. Anything that wastes cake, I just have a fundamental concern with. We'll have to talk about on another episode the catastrophe that was Nicole and I's wedding and one of the highlights of that wedding. Just a sneak peek here. You know when the bride and groom have to feed each other the cake or the crossing of the arms? Yes. So sensual and beautiful And Nicole was deathly ill and said, whatever you do, do not put any of that cake in my mouth.
    42:49
    Man, maybe that's an exclusive Patreon thing, but I'll discuss that. So that's Dune Pinball. I am so, so glad that this is presented the way it has because, yeah, this is in my collection. This is a full-blown experience of a game, and it really tickles the categories of games that I like. The way it shoots, the way it looks, the way it feels. I'm all in. It just needs some more code. What do you think overall? How popular do you think this game will be?
    43:25
    Moderately popular. I don't think it's going to reach labyrinth levels. I think this in terms of sales yeah I mean they've limited themselves to a smaller count but I just so yeah I don't know how else to say it yeah I think sales wise it will struggle more so than Labyrinth and we discussed on last episode why that may be I think objectively this will be a better game I need to try it before I would say that but I see better potential here personally. I didn't really care much for Labyrinth myself though so for me it wouldn't have to take a whole lot. Did you see in the video I was trying to do the whole the sand walk thing? Yeah. I wasn't very successful with it. No. I mean it's nice that you tried. I felt like it was like a half effort. Yeah. There was not much. You could have poured a bag of sand in that room and really done something. I really could have. I don't know what they would have done. the oxidation on the soles of my Jordans. That might not have... I mean, you could have changed shoes.
    44:34
    You know what? The previous... The Godzilla video I did have a shoe change planned I even brought Because it a different location than my house I even brought another pair of shoes Forgot to swap them out And in editing really regretted that I had some work shoes on, and I was not happy with that choice. But I'm only one man. You can't be going around filming in Adidas.
    45:03
    If they're trendy, Adidas, you can't. Do they make shoes? Does Adidas make shoes? I don't even know.
    45:08
    Chicago Gaming Company. I wonder if Doug Dubo over there sports some J's. He's more an Adidas guy. They are nearing the end of Pulp Fiction LE production. Wow. Yeah, our last batch, I think serial numbers were like 940, 930s. So they only make, what, they're making 1,000 of those or 1,250, I forget. But they're getting closer. And we're fulfilled. Even so, we've got FlippinOutPinball.com. We have them ready to go. if you want a Pulp Fiction LE and didn't get them when they initially sold out. We've got, I think, three or four of them available. People dropped out or tired of waiting two years. What? No. No. Come on. Those things, the way they flew out of the factory, how could anyone have had time to change their mind?
    45:59
    We should see them transition over to Cactus Canyon enhancement kits over the next couple of months, and then Medieval Madness Merlin editions probably towards the end of the summer. Spooky Pinball, nice update newsletter they sent out to everybody. They continue to add rules and code to their games. We need to support them doing this. This is awesome. They're adding to Evil Dead, of course, but also Looney Tunes, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Scooby-Doo, Halloween and Ultraman, people. Evil Dead just continues to shine. It's the darling of 2025 thus far. and it's the game everybody still calls us for even though it's sold out everywhere. Looney Tunes, they've added multiple new episodes, new wizard mode. Up next, they're going to focus on expanding with the factory mayhem system which is going to offer the additional awards for completing games non-episode objectives like they'll have like alien technology, anvil multi-ball, the acme crates, extendo punch, all these extra little things that are on that conveyor belt factory system, to rocket multiballs, so they're working on that. Texas Chainsaw Massacre continues to expand as a game as well, including several features like modes, film assets, etc., so they're still working on that. I seen on Bug's Screamin' Stream this last week, he interviewed his dad, Charlie, the retired Charlie, and they both agree that their favorite spooky, and they think the best spooky pinball machine, their favorite, is Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
    47:30
    Nicely done, okay. Makes me want to go back and pay close attention to that again. Scooby-Doo, where are you? They introduced, I'm the only person in pinball that appreciated and loved this move, Scrappy-Doo Call-Out. No. Oh, what a mess. The little pup is here. Uncle Scooby? Hi, I'm Scrappy-Doo. Scrappy-Doo? What a mess. Scrappy-Doo? No. The whole history of how Scrappy got on the show is crazy. I love it. No. Oh, no. No, they must really be sold out to not care anymore and do that. Who's this little fuck? It'd be like going into Halloween and just saying, you know what? We're going to put in the Revenge of Michael Myers as all the clips or something. Halloween H20. The weird or whatever the weird. Oh, H20. John. Pardon it.
    48:27
    John. I got to sneak out because my mom is so mean. and she won't tell me why. I'm cute goth. We just went and had drinks in this expensive prep school dorm and why is people coming around killing us and killing my friends? Remember The Faculty? Me and Greg Bone talk about that movie all the time. It was awesome. It had like Elijah Wood and Usher and like, this is a fucking awesome movie. The Faculty. Sorry.
    48:58
    So what'd you have to say about Scrappy doing your love for him. Just, I mean, he's not just... He's lovable. Spooky.
    49:06
    Dennis here. Oh, no. Why? Why would you do... People were just starting to like you. They respect the effort, the reformed layouts, the approachability of Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the world under glass that is evil dead and you give them scrappy abomination oh i love it i wish i would have done video assets i think it's just audio assets man oh i guess they decided that they had to inject some more horror into that like well we want to get cute but we don't have to pay too much for this come on they probably got a licensing discount for you don't ask quite as much if you let us stick scrappy into your game we'll extend we'll extend your license a year if you just business is business am i doing maybe that was it you give you another two years just give them the pup that couldn't stop halloween and ultra man see look they're even focusing on performance optimization as they overhaul the video system to reduce cpu load and improving the information processing speed by over 40x on Halloween. How much CPU load was a PowerPoint animation really doing in Halloween? All I know is it allows players to notice a faster more responsive experience and they're still focusing on that. That's nice. That's good. I don't know what board system that was but it's alright. Hopefully they stick with this board. Hopefully. Trough Jam 2025 Phase 3 The Third Need we're not into phase three yet this is just a sneak peek every episode was supposed to be a phase that's what pins like things it was a nice sequential thing going and you know we're pausing until we where's harry potter yeah i here's my question will phase two end the first half of 2025 as the victors over the wizard of phase three it's almost like the uh the end of the episode Or will the timely tag team take down the boy who lived? I don't know if you like right now in our culture, people are asking about like how many men would it take to defeat a gorilla? Have you seen this whole thing? What? A hundred men versus a gorilla who would win kind of thing. But maybe we should be asking, Dennis, if a big hairy monkey and a girthy worm can engorge the crevasse of this pinball market deeper than the elder wand can. Is that the real question? No? Is that too descriptive for you? Speaking of descriptive, can you picture the Elder Wand? I'm sorry. I'm not going to describe it here. I don't remember. Every time I see that wand, I think of something, and I think that a lot of you do as well. Go ahead and Google it, Dennis. The Elder Wand in Harry Potter. I don't feel like typing. All I'll say, listeners, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop. That's all I'll say. So Jersey Jack Pimple, when are they revealing this game? Everybody, I love that everybody's pissed off. They're like, it's National Harry Potter Day, goddammit. Yeah, what about National Harry Potter Day? That was May 2nd or May 4th or 2nd or 3rd. May the 4th be with you. May the 4th be with your wizard. Yeah. Like your space wizard, Harry. They thought that, they're lying. There's a licensing issue. I love that. I think it was Kaneda that was like, it's announcing now. And then it didn't. he was like it's a licensing issue i'm like this guy i think is i think i figured him out if he doesn't have news he's gotta keep up with subscribers and his money salary thing so he makes up news that he can then refute to make up news and then it cancels itself out and then he gets to blame people like it was never scheduled to release at the beginning of may never i always thought it was going to be a mid to end of may kind of thing yeah i think it's still on track that's what i'm hearing jersey jack pinball uh mid to end of month hopefully we'll see well i've only heard of one issue coming up oh what's that and that's just a tease oh i think we're already tired of the fact that the game isn't out yet and they keep bringing it up maybe your tease is very meta hey you know if it what if it's out what if it's not in may what if they do push it back further It's going to be June.
    53:41
    Hey, people might refill their piggy banks. It wouldn't surprise me if it fell into June. One month might not be enough to refill the piggy bank, but nonetheless, more distance away from Kong and the Warrum. The Warrum. Maybe it's a good thing. Do you want to see him crush me like a Warrum? I want to see what Pinball Brothers is going to do. I'm wondering what's going on there. oh i don't ever think about them are they waving the white flat white what are we what are they doing i think it's time for the newt version of alien oh no they did just i mostly started my game at night mostly what else can they do that will make money but re-re-re-re-release no i i think they've they've called it they're done making alien i think i think they just announced that the ripley's done i don't know what they're gonna do does this mean pedretti we're not gonna see another real i'm starting to wonder and worry over there about the pinball brothers i wanted to see a predator game there's all kinds of stuff that i'm looking forward to here in phase three harry potter's gonna be huge i i'm just man i think it can take out phase two i really think it can i think it can but it's gonna be tough because those were what i talked about the timely tag team. Who would have thought these two kind of battling releasing, that is Stern with King Kong, Barrels with Dune, who's going to take the first step? Oh, damn it, there's Jack announcing something. Let's get out in front of this. Who would have thought those two may team up and take on the likes of a Harry Potter? Which one do you think will end up more successful, Kong and Dune together or Harry Potter from a sales perspective? Then from a game perspective. Well, Zach, all right. Let me take your question in the two chunks you've given it to me. Okay, all right. So, sales.
    55:42
    This is tough. I'm going to go ahead and say I think Harry Potter outsells Dune plus Kong. Whoa. You know what? I might be sucking on some crow toe or licking a crow toe. I don't know what we do with a crow toe. I already forgot. We can do both. Look, the crow and the toe. Maybe I just eat the whole crow like normal people do. Look, cough up feathers. I mean, there's a price to be paid for any decision. Because here's the thing. The reason why I'm so torn is the buzz going on. I know we're not surprised by the buzz, but the buzz going on about Kong is so strong. It is. Dune is almost like we almost don't even need to factor in Dune. Except, all right, that's going to add a few hundred sales into the mix. So, yeah, it's a little bump. It's a little cocaine bump. But it's a pick-me-up. Feeling great. Yeah. But I don't know if it's going to overcome the addiction of Harry Potter, which is basically pinball math. It comes with selling all your stuff. Yeah. But Elwynn's name alone sells games that people are trying it, and they're like, this is a stronger one of his already strong lineup. but I still think given the decisions that JJP has made especially to go ahead and have that $10,000 model in addition to the other two they really did position themselves plus the limited time window rather than the cap on the CEs these are things commercially that I think will play very well to this game so I'm still going to go ahead and say that I do think Phase 3 Harry Potter outsells Phase 2 that's tough let's just roughly before jumping to the game part Like, let's say, if we're guessing how many dunes get made, they're limiting it to 1,000. Let's say they don't get there. Let's say 750, all right? Just to be safe. And that's where I'm kind of thinking they'll be at. 750.
    57:35
    Very successful 750 that would be. All right. And then we've got 1,000 LEs of Kong that we know sold out. 932, whatever. Let's call it 1,000. And then pros premium. So we're at 1,750 between those two without pros and premiums. premiums let's guess i don't even know what we guessed from then let's just wildly say 3 000 units right an elwynn you have a long tail 3 000 units on top of that you know we're we're nearing 5 000 units and it may be way more than that but to your to your point does harry potter sell more than gnr i would think so but gnr is just because of the 5 000 units is a lot it is and that's where it's like even if king kong is elwynn's best design ending up with the best rules of any of his games without the pandemic effect it's never it's not going to catch Godzilla. It can't. I just don't believe it. I don't believe it can. Godzilla, I think, sold two this last week.
    58:47
    And the thing is, it's not like Godzilla has all of a sudden become a bad game just because a game like Kong is great. I've had a couple people, Dennis, buy the duo, the monster duo. Oh yeah, no. I've seen a few people talk about how they're looking forward to getting Kong because they want it. They've already decided. They know they're going to like it. They know that they've seen people play it. They know they're going to enjoy it. They won it beside Godzilla. Yeah, a lot of people are doing that, the premiums especially, the two premiums. So – but in the same boat though, can Harry Potter at the modern price scene match GNR, which had the three tiers also and all the tiers were less? Nice use of modern by the way. Nailed it there. Did I? Yeah, you did. I didn't even think about it. So I – Nicely done. Okay. I've been practicing, guys. I do practice. um so i it's gonna be close you know it's gonna be close yeah so in a way i don't really expect kong to outsell godzilla and i'm gonna say i don't really expect harry potter actually to outsell gnr because just because the times are are different in a variety just on a variety of fronts but but fundamentally if that's canceling each other out then it's once again just the question of in 2025 dune plus kong versus harry potter i just that license has such legs i'm going i'm just i'm agreeing with you i think harry potter does it because of the the cherry on top that is the arcade edition the sub ten thousand dollar additional model that they're adding to this title i think that puts it over the edge beating out both of those games together what And they noted, they being JJP, that unlike GNR, this arcade edition will be mechanically complete. There were a lot of compromises. I played an on-location GNR standard edition. It didn't feel like the same concert experience. Great integration, but it didn't even look like a concert. They stripped out so much. You are correct there. That's true. What about the game itself? Isn't it safe to say nothing can compete with Elwynn? I mean, yes, it's a safe claim. It's not.
    61:02
    It's a question of how mean do you want me to be. I want full Dennis. No, you don't. You sell all these games. Let me put it like this. They're going to sell regardless. You're fine. Right. They're going to sell regardless. It doesn't really matter. Yeah. No. Of the three, yeah, King Kong is going to end up winning on gameplay, almost assuredly. Eric Menier's best game from the public's perspective is most likely going to be Pirates. I don't know how much of that is. It's actually his best work. If they just happen to like that it had more stuff in it because it was the white body or just that it's a super valuable game because of the limited production run.
    61:43
    I have not found his subsequent games from a gameplay level to be even the best JJP games. and Elwynn is the best in the business and based off of, again, I haven't played it yet, based off of what I've seen and from the feedback I'm seeing, Kong is not going to be at the bottom tier of his own very impressive run of titles. So I don't even think it's going to be remotely competitive on a gameplay level. In fact, I only think focusing on gameplay should be JJP's strategy here. I think with Harry Potter, they've just got to nail that world under glass. That's the only thing that matters. And assets. yes and that's part of the world yeah yeah they want the movie world under glass so the screen integration you know john paul dewind's uh work is going to be critical of course he he's never failed to deliver in my opinion so i don't i expect it to to land in all those regards i would not be surprised if this game is middling in terms of gameplay like around the 50 point of if you thought of everything JGP's ever made. It wouldn't surprise me if it's not that same tier of Wonka and Elton and Toy Story. What I'd like to add here is that I don't want people to forget that, man, Jersey Jack just makes a special game. I was reminded by that this last weekend when we got in a Godfather CE on trade. and Dennis like damn it is just such a beautiful just so well done of a game like their games just the UI the animation then just the lighting effects the overabundance of lighting programming that they do just the materials they just it just really really shines in a room it looks so so good and it's still in 2025 with everybody trying to catch up it's still a pretty big leap ahead just looks wise from the other manufacturers i hate to say it but and then and then i turn and look to avatar and for whatever you want to say about avatar damn fucking that game is so cool looking the lighting and the art just it just their games there's something about their games that i don't think people people are there yet and i like the other manufacturers so that's the one thing it just i don't know why it still surprises me i mean we've been 10 years into jjp and i still will walk up upon just a ce or an le of jersey jack game i'm like damn like fuck that is just a wonderful beautiful looking game i don't know what that adds to this conversation but it just reminded me like when i saw that godfather i'm like and i was shooting down like is this underrated like this is fun this is a good i I want to get through these modes and stuff. And then they get hit with some multiballs. All right. But it's just there's something that makes me just want to keep J.J.P. games around. But I don't. Oh, this just in, Dennis. Buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh. Let's just. I just received an email from Stern Pinball. May the 4th. We're recording on May the 4th. May the 4th be with you. And another classic move by Stern Pinball, vaulting the Mandalorian. Huh?
    65:29
    They've just vaulted. I love that they just vaulted Mandalorian on May the 4th. We want to celebrate by not selling this anymore.
    65:42
    Yeah. Okay. You know, Mandalorian is a case in point example of how things were so different for pinball during the pandemic era. because nobody today, I don't think with Harry Potter, nobody today is going to go through a 20-page installation manual to make a Baby Yoda hand wave. But people were doing it because there was nothing else to do.
    66:10
    Because remember, every game has to have its outrage, and the outrage for Mandalorian is Baby Yoda doesn't move. Yeah, Baby Yoda's stroking out. He's not doing anything.
    66:21
    Yeah, absolutely. I'm not surprised that they're vaulting Mandalorian. Maybe I'm a little surprised that they're not going to do one more run when the new movie comes out. But, okay. All right. I can see them getting rid of Mandalorian. Timely on May 4th to do so. So that's the breaking news right now. You know what, though? I'm not going to lie. Just from a look standpoint and a theme standpoint, every time I see an Ellie come up for sale really cheap, I'm kind of tempted. that's such a pretty game I don't dislike Mandalorian but I've never really thought about owning it I actually I like the rules I like the assets used I blame Brian Manetti for that one I do not like that layout at all I don like it But not at all I mean there some redeeming qualities to it but it just probably started. We started calling it middle Lorian for competitive when I was a little bit on that. Not, you know, yeah, yeah. This was in the before times, but the name stuck. So man, we're bringing in the goods this week. I want to keep bringing them the goods, especially those that support us as official club members of the pinball show exclusively over on patreon you can get some additional content this week's a special one i've got to say this week's this might be a full version or this might be a part one i don't know but a lot of you out there want to know what dennis really feels about some of the greats that we've seen throughout pinball machines over the years.
    67:57
    What are the greatest CERN pinball machines, in Dennis' opinion? Do we really think they're crazy? Where does he rank the different Jersey Jack games? The Valley games? What about even American pinball? Sega, Data East? Spooky? A lot of people want to know what Dennis thinks about these. So exclusively, Dennis goes top five greatest pinball machines from each company in our pinball show Patreon content this week. My Genco picks will amaze you.
    68:31
    Are you ready for that? Were you able to even list five American pinball machines? I had to look at a list for them. I had to look. You forgot about Ledger Mahalo. Do I really have to pick all five?
    68:48
    So he's going to be doing that exclusively for our club members. You guys are going to enjoy that. And full transparency, I don't know what his picks are. So you're going to be hearing me in real time react to his list, whether I agree or disagree, and I'll let him know. So jump over and listen to that after this episode. And if you haven't signed up yet, please do. Help support the show. Get extra content. Get extra stuff. Become part of the Discord communications we have. You can sign up at the $10 level, $25 level, $100 level for those big ballers out there. love you patreon.com slash the pinball show and we've got the uh happy hour hangout coming up later on this month we got a lot of new nordman club members and screaming goat club members that are joining us in those so so that's exciting stuff where we once a month we do a live hangout it was like google hangouts or mike i don't know what it is i usually am drinking a whiskey you know what i've i've the trend right now is tequila so i bought a nice little tequila I might sip on a tequila with the fellas this month in the happy hour hangout. You know what they say about tequila, Dennis?
    69:59
    No, I don't know. Loose lips sink ships. I don't know what they say about tequila. Make your clothes come off? Something. I'll keep my clothes on. Let's thank some Screaming Goat Club members.
    70:11
    Like the bobcat. Our little Rodney. Our pride and joy. Thank you so much for the continued support, Rodney. I wonder what Rodney drinks. You think Rodney is an alcohol consumer? I'm going to go daiquiri for Rod. No, margarita. I'm going margarita for Rodney. Oh, shoot that fucker! Rodney, reach out. Let us know if we're close. Steve, thank you so much, Bumblebee. We appreciate all of your kindness and support and your work in the film industry. Truly, thank you for that. Steve's drink of choice, I'm going to say Mai Tai. Bumblebee! What do you think the odds are of that? Grasshopper more likely. The Panther. Thank you so much, Rob, for the continued support and for being a Screaming Goat Club member.
    70:58
    For Rob? I'm going non-alcoholic. I'm going... Shirley Temple. That's my kid's drink. I'm going iced tea. Like a sweet tea. You're going Shirley Temple for Rob? Sure. Lee. Don't call me Shirley. Thank you, Falcon. uh where are we going frank uh what's frank's drink of choice probably a uh gin we're going gin for him okay yeah that's what my father drinks a gin okay we're going a nice gin are we mixing it with anything my dad drinks it with a seven up or a lime or yeah tonics fine tonic okay gin and tonic for frankie charlie our man ring my bell charlie i'm going i don't know why i'm feeling Dr. Pepper here for Charlie.
    71:47
    I've drank with Charlie, too. Don't think it's a Mr. Pibb. You don't think he's a Pibb guy. Are they still doing Pibbs? I don't know. Interesting. I know what you're talking about, though. What have I drank with Charlie? I got drunk with Charlie at TPF. What was I drinking with him? Natty Light. I guess I was so drunk, I don't remember what we were drinking.
    72:05
    But, yeah. Thank you so much, the dude, William. We know what he drinks, right? Yeah. White Russian? We!
    72:14
    hi the royal we the dude would be yeah white russian the rooster cock-a-doodle-doo joshy uh we appreciate you and you know what straight whiskey i'm going straight whiskey for josh with my cock out just feels like a whiskey drinker over on discord our club members are talking about a lot about kong le experiences those who have received it and what they think and whatnot. Stay tuned. Next episode will reveal our May happy hour hangout time and date. But until then, again, thank you for all of those who have signed up. And if you haven't, please consider it. Patreon.com slash The Pinball Show. Yeah, it is very much appreciated and does help. You know what else helps get a lot of people's elder wands up in this? When the show ends? Not when the show ends. Oh, well, that was my guess. Some say one ending is just another's beginning or what's that phrase knock knock who's there pin pin who pinball market trend it's gonna be me i like your style dude i haven't done that in a while that felt good cleaned up the signs i told you i'm dry it's the house is dry training up this week ladies and gentlemen is evil dead i know your sister's ugly because she's possessed you know she was ugly before that she had a phase in high school leave her alone it's evil dead by spooky pinball it is because of two things people keep asking to be now they're asking to be on an overflow list just in case Joe falls out. Can I take their spot? And I've even had people try to, what's it called, juice me? Grease me.
    74:15
    What a squirrely episode this is. They tried to grease me, Dennis. They look around. Hey, I've got a friend, or four. Their name is Franklin. I wanted to see if you could go out back and find me one of those bed caps. I get a lot of that. How many of my Franklin friends are going to have to come to the party? And, yeah, I think I'm grease-proof. I don't have any.
    74:46
    I have greased people before, and it has worked. It has worked. It's just how bad you want something. Work hard, play hard, baby. Training up is evil, Dad. It also, not only have people been on this overflow list, but it just landed on the Pennside Top 100 as number one.
    75:02
    How long it lasts there? That's another Market Trends segment. But for this Market Trends, it just landed as number one. Have we ever seen a spooky land at number one like that, though? I don't remember. Maybe two. I don't remember. No.
    75:18
    I bet there hasn't. So, trending up is Evil Dead. All this talk about King Kong. All this talk about Dune. And look, they're training up as well. I'm going to give them credit, dude. That's right. Training up. King Kong, dude. But back to the previous. Evil Dead still holding its own. It'll be interesting if they do awards things this year and how bad they fuck them up like usual. But it'll be interesting to see what people, I almost want to just put out a survey that's actually objective and legitimate, to see what people actually think is the best of category. Maybe I'll do that just for my own research. I just want to know what people really think, because I think Evil Dead may, I mean, it may really push for a lot of categories as best of 2025. So congratulations, spooky crew. Now, here's what I worry about. I'm always thinking, like the neurotic person I am, like, does this mean, though, with the trend of this being so high up and successful, that just naturally anything they come out with next is going to take a hit? you know what goes up must come down kind of thing the whole balancing i don't want to get into tariff market trends again but i just wonder about that but let's jump on to kong and dune they both they were battling but they didn't need to they can hold hands and matrimony and both be hashtag winning they can do that together in your collection and a lot of people are doing that they're for a while sales wise from flipping out pinball distribution over here we had i'm not gonna A battle between are we selling more Dune premiums or Kong premiums? I think for most people that would be very surprising.
    76:59
    But it was a good thing. Especially since Dune doesn't have a premium. Sorry. Dune, LA versus Kong premium. I'm just kidding. That kind of thing.
    77:09
    And they were battling for a good long time. I think Kong has edged them, of course, as I knew it was going to. But, man, they're the release week. I was like, oh, shit. like this is this is interesting also turning up this week is this episode i don't know why i like this episode so much it feels very free and this probably helps that i'm sitting here naked but there's just something in the air i haven't showered this morning it could be that turning down this week is but here are the titles of games i'm trending down because these are the titles that are coming in the most frequent uh in and on trade so i'm going to train them down i'm seeing some patterns here. We're seeing a lot of titles that are coming in more so than others, and those include trending down this week. We're going to trend them down. Scooby-Doo, my spooky pinball. James Bond, I just trended the Ellie up a month ago or so, but a lot of James Bonds coming in. Foo Fighters, doesn't surprise you, right, Dennis? Uncanny X-Men, is that surprising? No, not really. Alien? A lot of aliens. This one surprises me. Simpsons Pinball Party. that is more surprising held its value for a long time and continues to but for whatever reason this last batch of new games coming out the most traded Simpsons four of those things in within a month so those are the titles that I'm seeing mostly come in I didn't name Mandalorian because just by default Mandalorian is always there people I'm about to drop Mandalorian premium price down again to like $59.99 I've never hit the fives for a Mandalorian premium. That's crazy. Also trending down this week. Prepare yourselves, people. You may not like this one. If you're driving, pull over. Take your belt off and bite down on it really fucking hard. Because trending down this week is my take on the LEs in the marketplace right now. Specifically trending down is the current metallic foil decals that are being used on high-end cabinets. and sometimes inner art plates. Yep. Your boy's turning on some of the LE stuff here because I've got to say it. I'm over it. I am done with the metallic foil being used on these high-end games, Dennis. Why is that, Zach? I'll tell you, buddy. Yeah, why is that? Because, you know what? They're not that nice.
    79:37
    This Kong, it's kind of got me shaking, this Kong LE. Because you're giving me black powder coat and then you're like, well, I gave you foil. I know it's the same art as the pro and premium boots. You got the foil. You know what? I don't like the foil anymore. What the foil does, I don't like the effects of it. I'm tired of kind of seeing it in my lineup because I don't know about you, collector out there, Ellie collector. It darkens the artwork pretty substantially. You have to view it in just the right light for it to really pop and hit metallic like you want it to. And I'm kind of tired of seeing it from a distance. It looks like a darker, blurrier kind of image. I don't think they're using the right type of metallic foil to really go for the effect they're looking for. Next time you see a Jaws LE in person, remember me telling you that. Walk around that game and tell me what you think about that. Anymore, I like, give me a regular decal over foil decal. I just don't like the way that these things look. They're hard to film as well, but they're nothing special. I noticed that even kind of on the Dune, albeit such a gorgeous game, but like when they embed the metallic stuff, that's what we like the most. But unlike Dune, I almost had to get a little bit lower for really that color to shift the way I wanted it to kind of stand out. And I don't think we need that. I think there are different types of materials we could use to make these LEs really special. and the metallic that Stern's using and all these other... Guys, it's not there. Give me a glossy butter cab or even the Radcal stuff over these metallic foil designs any day. I'm done with them. I do not think they're special. And I think they actually hinder the artwork in moving forward. To me, they're special because they're different than regular decal, but I don't really see that big of a benefit from them. the exception that i like the elvira's house of whores a black and white one where they mixed glossy uh print and a matte print i like that i also like if they add mirroring effects to uh to some of the the cabinet decals we've seen that dune has some of that um trying to think what other games offhand i'd have to think about it but there are some mirroring effects on some games. So do stuff like that. But these just standardized Stern LE metallic foil just for the sake of being metallic foil.
    82:11
    No. I'm not a believer anymore. I'm sorry. Dennis, what's happening to me? I feel all weird and tingly. Nah, I just think you're mad that it doesn't allow it to oversaturate like you like. This doesn't feel good. I don't like this. So let's get out of pinball market trends and save you some money. Deal of the week this week is in Apollo 13 I have. You know what? I really like Apollo 13. It gets so much shit that I think is unsubstantiated. I think there's a lot to do in that game, and it is a good layout. I really like it.
    82:44
    A lot of toys, a lot of mechs. I like the theming. That's a truly themed game. If you want to experience what a trough jam is, there's your game.
    82:54
    Sega! Apollo 13. You find me in Apollo 13's home use only, I'd pay six grand for it, if not more. seven grand you want me to pay eight thousand for an apollo 13 if it's clean enough i'll do it but the deal of the week i've got a used one uh that came in on trade it was like 4500 bucks marked it down to 42.99 for you listeners i'm going to mark it down another what four hundred dollars 38.99 buy buy buy i still lovely game why do people hate that so much that game um it's not very fun i think people say oh it's so gimmicky and like that's just one little part of that game you you don't see the 13 ball very often so yeah and it's like progressive it's a carrier yeah it's a progressive across game state thing so no it's just i i don't know you know tom hanks isn't on it there's just a lot of stuff where they it just kind of felt phoned in but i like the uh the plunger thing that you turn that just i like it the theming i think it's cool the the apron it's like that metallic blue everybody come on find me an apollo 13 out there juicy one please You guys sure as hell couldn't find me a Batman Forever this Tuesday. You couldn't find me a South Park Independence Day. What do you got? Come on, guys. Tales from the Crypt. Where are they at? A Batman Data East. A hook. They've got to be out there. They've got to be out there, Dennis. There are some previous employees or something. These are in basements. They're somewhere. Behind me, these games. Last Action Hero. Gary Hardy had a Last Action Hero like a month ago. Maybe he didn't want to ship it or anything. I told him I'd buy the damn thing. He's just a ghost. What the hell, Kerry? You wanted to buy your game?
    84:32
    And as always, I'm just here to report the facts, to get some phone calls from Stern about this whole metallic foil LE rant I had. Because numbers don't lie, and for better or worse, neither will I, on pinball market trends.
    84:46
    Dennis, where can people catch you? They can email at eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com. Terrific. You can email us at thepinballshow at gmail.com as well. We're continuing to transition over for this channel, RSS thing. Instead of being the Pinball Network, you'll slowly see it morph into the Pinball Show. So you're in the right place. I've had people message and say, hey, I like the Pinball Show. Where can I catch your show? We're not going anywhere. We're staying here. So if you've followed and subscribed to this channel, then you are good. Speaking of following and subscribing, follow us on Facebook as well. Become a Discord member by being an official club member, patreon.com slash thepinballshow. Do it now so you don't forget. Straight down the middle, a video series on YouTube that I do. Go check that out. As well as media for Flippin' Out. They're the sponsor of this show. When I buy my pinball, shit, I buy from Flippin' Out. From toppers or play stereos, I've got it figured out. Flippin' Out, figured out. When I take a pinball, I think Flippin' Out. Flippin' Out, figured out. When I buy, buy, buy, I buy from Flippin' Out. Buy, buy, buy. Go check out Flippin' Out Pinball. We got a lot of fun stuff like Joel. This last week, last couple weeks, he streamed Godzilla, Lord of the Rings. He did a tutorial on Lord of the Rings, tutorial for Godzilla coming up. And this week, he's going to have that King Kong LE with possible giveaways of a topper and a play field. Crazy. You got to be there. Flipping out, Pinball's product showcase. This episode is the Pulp Fiction LEs. Like I said, we had a couple extra that people bailed on, so their loss is definitely your gain. It's the one that says bad, motherfucker. Let go of it! Tell that bitch to be cool! Dune, get yours pre-ordered. Kong, get yours pre-ordered. You can, here in May, a pro or a premium. You want a pro or a premium? I can get you one. I can get you one now. Let's do it. Harry Potter, you want it pre-ordered? It's on our website. Let's go. Zach, Z-A-C-H at fliptheletterinoutpinball.com. And for the May the 4th was what yesterday, or if you're listening, Star Wars. We just got in some shooter knobs. Some Star Wars Stormtrooper shooter knobs. Those haven't been available for quite some time. So let's get those at flippingoutpinball.com. Pre-owned games. Dennis, I have 12 games that have come in on trade the last week. And, of course, it's when Tim was out of town on vacation. So, oh, man, I busted a sweat on that. So set all those up. We'll be listing those. So follow us on Facebook, Flipping Out Pinball Facebook, or ZMany on Pinside for all of those used games. But it's easiest just to follow us on Facebook. hopefully soon we'll have those on the website but until then facebook is where they're going to be if you want any other games dungeons dragons metallica remastered tobert whatever you want avatars elton john's the vaulted mandalorian get them before they go we just got some more fun house remakes in the classic and ellie so those are ready to go trade in a game if you're wanting a kong if you're wanting a dune if you're wanting a harry potter close your eyes right now listener i want you to think as fast as you can the first thing that pops in your head the game you never play in your collection. Hurry. Think. Yeah, that one. All you've got to do is trade that in to me and you can get like a freaking Harry Potter. Let's do that. You can also reach out to Greg, G-R-E-G at FlippinOutPinball.com. Dennis, these people need to learn something today. Well, rather than really talk to the people, I have to talk to J.J.P. a bit. Oh, no. And say, hey, all right. Yeah, J.J.P., it's Dennis here. Look, Harry Potter's not out yet. You've got time. You can add a van near a river. You can do this. You can tie it together. Close the circle. You have the power. Use it wisely. Hear that, Dad? You got a regular hairy pothead over here. Too busy rolling doobies and trying to hit on your best friend Ron Weasley's sister. He should be living in a van down by the river. And that weird-ass glowing deer. I still don't know. Was that? That was Snape, wasn't it? Yeah, the Patronus? Yeah. Yeah, he took Harry's mom's Patronus as his own. I always thought, I was like, is Snape his father? I just binged all the names. They're so good. So good. All that I do is not enough for you. It's been 84 years. Or has it? I don't remember. Take my tiny hands.
    89:12
    That's a mashup. Look, we just rework with what we got. There's a .5 episode. Come on, Croods. Reach out and grab it or you'll fall. Don't fall into Croods 3. Oh, man. I love Croods 2. I'm going to watch it again. It's going to be me.