Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 52 - Wiping Buns.

The Pinball Network·video·1h 7m·analyzed·May 31, 2024

Analysis

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TL;DR

Triple Drain discusses Stern factory tour, transparency, and John Wick LE impressions.

Summary

Triple Drain Podcast Episode 52 covers the hosts' recent factory tour of Stern Pinball in Chicago, organized by Zack Sharp. The episode discusses transparency around access journalism, the Stern facility tour experience, interactions with Stern employees, and initial impressions of the John Wick Limited Edition pinball machine. The hosts emphasize the value of the experience while addressing community criticism about potential bias.

Key Claims

Zack Sharp invited Joel, Travis, and Tom to an all-expenses-paid Stern facility tour with no strings attached, NDAs, or content restrictions (except in certain areas)
high confidence · Joel explaining the invitation details and tour conditions
The Stern facility tour included presentations from George Gomez, Gary Stern, and Seth Davis (CEO) covering manufacturing, licensing challenges, and industry costs
high confidence · Tom detailing the tour agenda and key speakers
The hosts saw John Wick Limited Edition in person at the Stern facility during the tour
high confidence · Tom confirming he saw the John Wick LE cabinet art and mechanisms
Stern employees were instructed to clear their desks of future projects and not display unreleased content on screens during the content creator visit
high confidence · Joel recounting conversations with design team members about facility protocols
Tom owns a John Wick Pro but is not planning to upgrade to the Limited Edition due to price and not being a major John Wick fan
high confidence · Tom discussing his John Wick ownership and LE decision

Notable Quotes

“we're getting access to something that not many people have access to right and and it is strictly because we are in the position that we are in like let's just call it call it what it is”
Travis@ 7:06 — Direct acknowledgment of access journalism and transparency about the nature of the tour invitation
“there's nothing wrong there's nothing wrong with that yeah you know they have they have every right to run their business how they want and they did they were upfront and clear that it was perfectly fine if we're going to be critical about what we see they can't control that”
Travis@ 8:14 — Emphasizes Stern's openness to criticism despite providing access
“Dwight's an awesome dude I also know he listens to this podcast so thanks a ton Dwight for the tour um that was super entertaining”
Joel@ 12:55 — Shout-out to Stern employee Dwight for tour facilitation
“the answer was just keep doing what you're doing okay like good and bad we want it all”
Tom@ 24:11 — Recounting Stern's response to questions about how content creators can help
“I truly thought it was awesome I mean I really did um the cabinet art is spectacular”
Tom@ 29:29 — Initial positive reaction to John Wick LE artwork

Entities

Zack Sharpperson George Gomezperson Gary Sternperson Seth Davisperson DwightpersonJoelpersonTravisperson Tomperson

Signals

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community_signal: Hosts proactively address community criticism about potential bias from Stern tour, emphasizing transparency and honest coverage despite access provided
high · Joel and Travis directly discuss the nature of access journalism and commit to unbiased reporting
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content_signal: Stern tour content is being distributed across multiple platforms and channels (Triple Drain, Flipping Out with Friends, Tom's YouTube channel Fox City Spinball)
high · Joel mentions Tom already posted a video on Fox City Spinball YouTube, Ian and Retro Ralph discussed on Flipping Out with Friends
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manufacturing_signal: Stern proactively opened its manufacturing facility to content creators, demonstrating commitment to transparency and employee engagement protocols
high · Hosts describe full facility tour, employee protocols (clearing desks, no future project displays), and George Gomez presentation on licensing
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personnel_signal: Stern employees participated actively in tour, shared unfiltered thoughts on pain points and passion for projects during one-on-one conversations
high · Travis notes design team members were told to clear desks and participate; Joel mentions getting unfiltered employee perspectives
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product_launch: John Wick Limited Edition was displayed and shown to content creators during facility tour, generating positive early impressions of cabinet art
high · Tom confirms seeing John Wick LE in person at facility, praised cabinet art as spectacular

Transcript

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0:05

[Music] the pinball network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast hey everybody we're going on a t oh yeah Stern T Stern T we went on a tour um oh wow Travis literally said he said I'm hitting the button Travis goes no I'm not ready yet I hit it anyways uh what do you got there Travis look at all those things that you bought I mean it's it's really no big deal at all or or no big deal no bigal deal I mean it's like it's cool like I got Spotted Cow um you know I I wouldn't worry about this I don't even know what how that got in my hand and then um that cloth bag sweet jacket bro yeah like look at this the raw Thrills raw Thrills you know my so like I don't know why the internet's complaining acting like we're bought off or anything like I have no idea what they're saying like what the heck chill Fu no proof no proof no no proof that we were paid off whatsoever um uh side note we we had lunch before um uh the stern t uh with with Josh sharp and Josh sharp works for raw Thrills so all three of us got um Jeff Tois was there as well um we got he had some raw Thrills merch that he gave us here have a shirt and I wore that black raw thrill shirt the other night my wife is like what is that and it's like it's a they make like you guys didn't even get a tour of uh we didn't get the tour of Monica didn't drive fast enough to get my up there thanks Josh but anyways the raw thrs shirt she just she thought it was an interesting name is what I'm saying is what what it comes down to she's like I don't really want you wear that shirt I was like why is that an interesting name raw Thrills I don't know your brain can put two and two together Travis I don't I don't think like that you're one sick puppy Joel critical does noten on this my wife had that okay hey we prob I think we're good are you good is everybody yeah yeah is everybody good let's start the podcast like that raw Thrills Joel's wife let's

2:20

go we're three guys who like to talk so we came up with a CL our name we're Joel and Travis talk in all and we call ourselves triple drain triple drain triple train triple triple train perfect perfect yeah um we actually are kind of on a time crunch this is going to be a shorter episode for us shorter as in it's probably still an hour just get started with the episode instead of talking about how we're on a time crunch yeah okay fine uh it's Friday it's Friday uh we all have plans and uh this is we're like if we're going to record we got to record now so here we are um we have three things to go over we got Stern a little bit of John Wick little bit of fun house so let's see if we can uh squeeze it all in if not um it's Travis's fault it's not Tom it's not me but you're just you're you're lining up all these innuendos like just lobbing up softballs to us raw Thrills squeeze it in yeah Travis's fa I've heard that a lot yeah my life we all know we all know um okay so uh Stern uh first and foremost we're gonna keep saying tur because that's just for Travis um uh so yes I I talked uh flipping out with friends the other night we talked about this I said we it was me Ian from nudge uh magazine and retro Ralph we talked about this for two hours Tom has already made a video on Fox City spinball on YouTube where he's expressed his thoughts so if you really want some in-depth thoughts on each of our individual personal experiences with the uh with the stern tour uh check out that otherwise Travis he's done nothing he's done nothing for this I love how we are on a group podcast and you a-holes have already gone elsewhere and given your full thoughts I don't appreciate still Tom time is money man time is true Tom was like day after I think it was like Friday got home and pumped that video out yeah Tom is like the freaking Ringo Star of our group now he's like starting to Branch off like who's the Yoko Ono like who is trying to pull Tom away from us got all this individual stuff and it's really good too yeah Ringo he's still he's still doing it man yeah so if you can't get enough of the three of us Foxy's pinball flipping out pinball and the pinball company we all have our own Avenues but um anyways so just for for full transparency Stern uh Zack sharp specifically reached out to us he reached out to each one of us individually and invited us to to a Stern tour it was basically a full day event um he said all expenses paid plus they were going to give us roughly $2 to $3,000 each based on how positive our feedback was on the stern tour so well they they told me they' give me an illegal oh that's right it was free that's right it was either cash straight cash or a game and I you guys got the short end of the stick I'm on the board now I own shares I probably have a condo in Chicago there's there's a lot of [ __ ] going on now guys we're we're trending up we're trending up so in actual honesty there was none of that it was it was basically hey we we invite you here um all expenses paid as in get you know get yourself here we'll reimburse you however you travel here we'll take care of your hotel we got dinner taken care of for you just if you want to come come and there was no strings attached no NDA no please film this or that or do an interview or you know no content restrictions nothing it was just come here there was there was some contact or content restrictions we couldn't record or take pictures in certain areas but I'm saying there was no there was no expectation for and Gomez said when we were in the conference room we weren't supposed to talk about that stuff which it seems like some people have there was some I talked about a little bit yeah it was some stuff that we talked about but there was a few stories in specific stories that I understand um that yeah but nothing crazy it was basically like we talked about licensing and it didn't want us to share specific examples to piss off possible licensers um absolutely I completely understand that well I mean more than anything like it's good that you address this Joel and just addressing the elephant in the room like look every like what we did last week let's just call it what it is it's a form of access journalism and that's perfectly fine a lot of times it has a negative connotation to it in this way it could be positive for us that we need to be upfront with what that is essentially we're getting access to something that not many people have access to right and and it is strictly because we are in the position that we are in like let's just call it call it what it is and we're that doesn't mean we're any less appreciative of it it was an awesome experience and everything so it's good to be transparent about that to let people know like what this was because it gave us a chance to see everything from a different point of view some of it I pretty much knew like it felt like 90% of what was discussed in there was aware of outside of just how the actual Factory itself worked in the way that it was yeah so that was fun to see but I mean yeah that's just what it is but the bottom line is it's a good thing that it happened because it allows transparency and it it's funny I've read some of the comments out there and everything and it's like the same people that were begging for factory transparency like pictures of manufacturing this and that from everybody else it's like hey here's a pinball manufacturer actually opening up the doors taking time out of out of their day to talk with us to let us know about what is going on and to me there's nothing wrong there's nothing wrong with that yeah you know they have they have every right to run their business how they want and they did they were upfront and clear that it was perfectly fine if we're going to be critical about what we see they can't control that that's how it is so I mean I can tell you from my end and talking to Tom and talking to Joel like whatever you hear it's going to be our honest thoughts that's unbiased because it is what it is and I think the listener deserves that they deserve to hear that because that's I mean just like our last last last podcast that's to me transparency is good up to a certain point because you can't give like ev Everything but you got to give some you you know what I mean it's like give and take I think people respect that so so I'm recording in the middle of the day and my daughter is yelling my name so talk much yourself keep it going I'll be right back oh we can do that hi Tom hiis how you doing it's summer is gone I know can you believe it no this is what happens but no I I mean so just going a little bit deeper into the tour a little bit you know like we said if you've heard it from other people essentially what happened is we got to show up to the facility it was uh George Gomez and Gary Stern and Seth DAV Davis who's the CEO sorry my throat's really dry so if I stammer over my words apologies but um yeah everybody was really welcoming we got to see the factory we got to see how everything was made which you know a lot of that Stern's been open because of all the factory tours that they've done in the past before and they do it during Expo and I'm sure they do it even between times but you know it was just it was fascinating to for me to get that many Stern employees in the same area and get to hear their passion what they are passionate about and what I found so fascinating about it is Stern is such a large Manufacturing Company because let's face facts that's what they are and Gary has been upfront about that are a manufacturing company and what is so fascinating about it is you had all these different employees that they have different tasks and different jobs to do and they come into the projects at different times and it was very interesting to get to hear their unfiltered thoughts on what they do what Their pain points are what they thoroughly enjoy about it and there was a lot of them that were honest about it and that was refreshing to hear and it's not stuff that I would necessarily put back out out there publicly at all but it was nice to hear their side of it their point of view because it does create you know a clear picture of what's going on you know and I think us as content creators we can appreciate that you know people are going to have different opinions on everything right even the keyboard Warriors that are out there that are like bagging on everybody that went or anything you know it is what it is but the funny fact about that is they're content creators themselves anyways like anybody that's on a message board giving information they're providing entertainment they're providing engagement they're going for upvotes they're doing all that right they're answering questions so I think like a lot of people need to step back and realize there's content creation all around and it comes through different forms whether it's through written form video form podcast audio like this and I think that's what makes pinball great because you have all kinds of different opinions you have people that want to collect a ton you have people that don't you have people that just want to play that's what it is and that's what makes our podcast great cuz we all three of us come from different backgrounds right it's not it is what it is but yes yes right well I'm saying great for like us to do right now whether the listener thinks it's great or not it's whatever hopefully you guys do but I'm talking strictly it's great for us to do because it's fun because like the three of us we are not in an echo chamber like we call each other out all the time on our [ __ ] like it happens all the time that's what makes it fun so yeah that's for me that was the most exciting part of the tour is getting to hear people's pain points getting to hear what they thought about the projects getting to hear what they love about the industry and you know it's I think it humanizes people we talk about the connections right when you hear about people's problems and you hear about their triumphs you get both ends of the spectrum I think that makes for a much more compelling story at a much more compelling business or company so that for me personally that was my biggest takeaway and Dwight's tours are awesome that guy's energy level is off the charts yeah it's it's like if you play a Dwight coded game right it's like literally it's seeing that in action live action right there he was so yeah he was so EXC passion and it's awesome it was awesome for sure Dwight's an awesome dude I also know he listens to this podcast so thanks a ton Dwight for the tour um that was super entertaining uh speaking of problems what do you think uh what do you think my it was my son what do you think he was yelling for what do you think he uh what do you think he needed you both have had small children any guesses he wanted breakfast let's see

21:56

yes we're getting into a whole new area holy cow this is why this is planning why did you not buy a Toy Story you it would be fine if you had a Toy Story there speak from experience they'll play that thing all day long so but anyhow so we got to like we talked about late night drinks and all that we were at the bar and it was just yeah I wish we could have talked the more of the content creators more it was a little bit difficult to navigate that and that's like my one regret I wish I could have talked a little bit more with that there yes there was a ton of people there there was a ton of people there it would have been nice to spend more one-on-one time with all the other content creators just to talk to them and I like all the St people were there and I felt like we absolutely had good amounts of time to talk to people but I definitely like came home and I was like crap I wish I would have talked to this or I wish I would have talk to that I was also expecting like I'm surprised there was no I don't know one-on-one like with not necessarily like Gomez or Zack sharp but it was just like with Stern like a Stern group talking to small like we had a big there was 30 of us in a conference room it would have been cool if there would have been like maybe five or 10 because there was a part at the end like do you guys have mean it's kind of like that in the John Wick area or in the in the brick area you know we were able to do that if we could have got your butt off Jaws you know you would have been able to participate in all that there were I would just say there was the content creators that were in the room there was a there was a large variety of them like of different skill levels of different types of content so I think some of the question questions we wanted to ask it's like it wasn't the environment to ask it if that makes sense and and that's where I just think smaller or a more intimate setting uh could have been nice for a few of us to ask um some tougher questions which is a lot of the feedback that I've seen online all know I don't speak up that much but I I really wanted to go hey you know dur during that whole Gomez meeting how how can we how can we as pinball content creators help you guys sure so I actually I asked wish I would have thrown that out I did so I did ask that question privately yes privately do but legitimately the answer was just keep doing what you're doing okay like good and bad we want it all so okay they were very upfront about that because I think they realize that honesty and transparency like we talked about earlier as much as possible is a good thing I I think it's refreshing that they don't of course any company wants everything talked up as much as possible Right you want everything to be super positive but I think there's a firm understanding there that even the negative there's something positive that can come out of that because it gives them an idea of what other people are thinking outside of the company right to where you do get out of the echo chamber you get out of that forest and you see okay how is our decisions affecting this group of people how are our decis decisions affecting this section of people so I think that's important as well because you hear feedback right yeah and yeah of course there's people that go off the deep end with negative feedback that's not meant to serve any purpose other than just flinging poo against the wall more than anything like that's just what it is but it's like across the board yeah exactly it's like that in any industry though it's not just relegated to pinball but I do think also there is a form of constructive criticism that depending on who's receiving the information they could see it is just pure negativity and not do anything with it or they can see it as spotlighting something that they an issue that they may not have thought of in terms of seeing it from that point of view and that could help guide future decisions to where you make more positive decisions in the future that if somebody else is wiping ass upstairs but so but you know what I mean so that way you can make an inform decision in the future with the direction that you're going as a company with product releases with marketing releas with engaging with the community and I think all that is super important when you're trying to scale up a business and you're trying to run a healthy business because at the end of the day you want to make money because you want to keep people employed and it just it's a symbiotic relationship it goes hand inand yeah and it was yeah I I just know that that's at least the feedback that I've been reading on pinside and others they're like why didn't you know if I would have been in that room I would asked them how dare they charge this or why you know can you justify this probably why you weren't there and but does that make us soft or does that make us sh like no I we're respectful like you know obviously we were invited we were invited in there now if they would have said or if they would have had like breakout sessions of each one like okay is there anything you really like is ask us the tough thing that's one thing that's been really neat about interviewing Gomez like every time before I've started interviewing him he's always said like Joel ask anything ask anything I'm going to be as as upfront as I can now if it bro it breaches into into like something legal that I can't disclose like but I'll like be honest what are the next five titles here put and of course that question came up you know like or you know people always try it's like it's it it is what it is so I I I just looked at it as I was it was a humbling experience to one be invited and then to just be like to be able to see something as impressive as that facility and then the full transparency that they had or the um what I what I had said in in one of the other uh when I did this on flipping out with friends which was just like it was clear that Stern made that the priority of the day all the employees besides the assembly line workers were essentially told just don't work or not like don't work but it's like participate in this particip like talk to people interact with people um I talked to some of the some of the people from the design team they're like yeah we are told to come in do whatever work we can but at the same time make sure your desk is clear of any future projects and don't have anything up on your screen that's of a future project so they're like we really couldn't do much so why would we not hang out and it just seemed like everybody was having a good time Stern employees and content creators so it was awesome it was a really fun day no idea how how often they're going to do that um if I was invited i' I'd be happy to do it again and honestly I think if any of us had got an email from any of the other manufacturers that said hey we we want to pay for you to come to our facility and check it out out and engage with us like I would consider it uh for us the three of us it was an easy drive it was a few hour drive for each of us to get to Chicago it wasn't the end of the world um it's not like we had to fly halfway around the world or anything to experience it so it was a fun Thursday and I'm I'm it was a blast I'd happily do it again um well that being said so obviously to help us segue here since we are only 15 minutes past our a lot of 15-minute time for this segment yep but but it's paid greatly because of you know the wiass thing thank you Joel for that that's a gift that we'll keep on giving but this is a good segue because we got a chance to see John Wick on the line and we got a chance to see the John Wick Le yeah Tom well and that I'd beting but we got to see one in the facility as well right in the brick area so you know what were your guys thoughts on that I guess Tom what was your thoughts on it since you got to see it you saw the back glass you saw the art what do you think about it I truly thought it was awesome I mean I really did um the cabinet art is spectacular I mean he kept he kept pulling out his wallet and I'm like Tom not yet Tom you guys kept going you're getting one you're getting one you're you you're saying it thatw that Laie artwork though is something else artwork isn't everything okay okay you know sometimes sometimes your wallet talks to you too and it's like you better yeah better not uh but uh no truth be told is I'm I'm really happy with the pro uh but uh back to the Le um I I was I was in I was impressed with the way you know the mechanisms were and everything like that um but it it in the artwork but it wasn't enough for me to to go the extra mile and and pay more money for for the limited edition but I think a lot of that too is theme so like I'm not a huge John Wick fan yeah so you know I have a pro right now I don't know how long I'm going to keep a pro you know so you know when I buy an Le I want to keep it for for a long time you know so that's that's part of the reasoning but well if I was a huge John Wick fan I'd be all over it right and I think you you hit the nil on the head there Tom that there's a big difference between a theme in which on location it would probably destroy like I think this theme will do excellent on location if you're an operator I would highly recommend like getting it because I've heard that there's some that have kind of held back a little bit just to evaluate but this right here there's certain themes that you just know it talks to that demographic and I think that customer demographic in terms of looking at it from a segmentation standpoint somebody that wants to walk in coin drop something John Wick ticks a lot of those boxes but I get how from a home user standpoint it may not right now and that's why I think hopefully when the L start getting out people will see it and see kind of the some of the cool stuff that they didn't have in the promos like for instance the uh the lights right the uh speaker lights yes that flash whenever there's gunshots on the LCD and the Shaker motor goes nuts that is an awesome effect like seeing that and the haptic feedback of that that was a fantastic experience and something like that it just brings us back to kind of feeling that modern and that Nostalgia like just crashing in together and that's like for me from a pinball standpoint just a pure fan not worried about scoring a billion points every time that was pretty cool and I think your your average buyer or your average player that may that may really speak to them on that experience like that may be like the most standout thing about it so I thought that was pretty cool along with the back glass the artwork on the back glass fantastic to basically what Travis is talking about is it's in code that isn't released yet Tim showed us some beta code and what he showed was they are working in basically creating a choreography between what's on the LCD and then what you see in the lights and what you feel with the Shaker motor so I talked about this a little bit because it's weird to me but I like it which is normally a Shaker motor you hit a shot and that's when the Shaker motor goes off so you destroy something you bash something and so I'm a huge fan of the Shaker motor but I've always used the Shaker motor as I'm in multiball and then you feel the Shaker motor go off and it's like oh that was the jackpot or that was a good shot so you can feel that you hit something without necessarily seeing the ball hit the thing um this is different he what they have choreo what they've choreographed is if you're in John Wick's house um that particular scene it's very dark and so he's using a silence pistol so there's a lot of muzzle flash and um basically what he said is like if you hit a shot with three enemies um when it shows the scene of him shooting three guys when the muzzle flash and The Scene goes off the speaker lights will Flash and the Shaker motor will go off so it's it's almost like the lights in the Shaker motor are reacting to what's on the screen not necessarily what you just shot sure you shooting it started the animation but it there will be a difference there so you're still going feel the game go you know shake three times because you just shot three things so you still get that feedback but it's a very it's a different thing they're trying something level of immersion IM was needed for what the theme is and for what you're currently doing in the game and it's much to me when we talk about Innovation and you hear a lot about Innovation that is innovation and that's I mean it doesn't have to be something that's just like World crashing like world ending in you know what I mean it can be something that's so subtle like that but yet it's it has an impact and that's to me that's what's needed that's that's a great addition and I and I know they talked a lot about uh when they did the tour about standardizing parts and the importance of that and like as of right now there are two different style cabinets there's a basic cabinet which comes in black but then there's the expression lighting cabinet and I think I was getting the vibe that Stern is potentially going to go to everything having expression lights I mean in in they do yeah I didn't I didn't think that would work at all in the past to get away from Rock but it like it works oh it's yeah I think it looks fantastic you might be able to see it behind me but I have an expression lighting kit in this John Wick Pro that I'm borrowing and I love that the pro premium and Le hopefully from here on out all have that and the fact that they've talked that the speaker lights are going to be available for the pro premium andell so I would love for that to be something going forward um now as a you know Tom as an Le buyer if they're going to bring these unique things that the higher levels were only have like Jaws only has the speaker lights in the Le but a premium and Le technically run the same code so my whole thought was always if there's some way that they sell that outside you know you could potentially bring the Jaws Le speaker lights into a premium game that's the thought so I don't does it bother you that they're that they're bringing some of these higher end uh unique features the Le only features they're actually allowing those for an additional cost down into a pro or premium no I actually think it's a good idea uh that they're letting you know pro pro and premium buyers do it because there's already features on the Le that you can't get you can't get the foil you can't get the foil uh decals cabinet decals the art you can't get the powdercoated uh you know you can't get exactly those you can get after you can get it after market but you have to make an effort though it's not and you can't get the actual back glass where it's mirrored the mirrored back glass is a big thing and your art blades the Le art blades are always different than what art blades they sell separately yeah I still believe the one thing that I really wish Stern would start adding to an Le is a translite that comes with it that is fully signed by the Entre team I think that that's something that would be a good value prop for people that would be aidea honestly and I think that's something that can be done simple you know I mean we there's translites everywhere now obviously comes with a cost but if that adds an extra value prop like why not they already signed you know certificate they already signed on the on the apron the little card there so I think that' be cool CU people like people like stuff like that I'm glad that Stern is continuing to I mean these speaker lights it sounds like speaker lights are going to be a standard in games moving forward now what what I think is unique is Spike 3 is right around the corner right and I know when I when I interviewed Gomez he did hint at there would be a cabinet redesign element so it's kind of a what I don't necessarily know what that means because if you know if these speaker lights I have no idea how many games out we are from getting to spike three so if all of a sudden Spike two games expression lights are standard and everything speaker lights are you know I would hope that would be a trait that they're going to carry into Spike 3 and continue down that path what do you think what do we want to see with Spike three though like um more coils more more he said more powerful everything so that's what I'm assuming is they will probably be they will probably have the ability to have more mechs in the game I'm just hoping they have an HDMI output so for the LCD I hope the LCD that is my only hope leave the a streamer as a the Duck Fart stays in too code updates the um the I hope the LCD screen is if they're going to do some I would love for it to be bigger now I would honestly I would love for it to be stretched you you don't think the LCD is a selling point you just heard him he's he's about to turn it into a DMD heard okay so instead of a 16 by9 instead of a 16 by9 if they could stretch it and here's the reason why because if they're going to do movie stuff right like John Wick John Wick is in 16x9 format so if you have something that's wider then you can display graphics without overlays right in the middle but then you have room on the edges to have continuous data whether it's scoring other jackpots like that was a big thing that Gomez ran into with Bond the licenser wouldn't let them overlay anything so they had to do this no fly zone where they would have the the videos and then everything under it or it so if you just had a screen that wasn't 16 by9 then you would always have area where you could have dedicated pinball stuff and you could do DMD stuff if you wanted to like for the old games it would be in a layout that it would be easier to do kind of like a cgc stretched um Matrix graphic but just a thought I I hope they do something bigger with the screen we've talked about this before that's why I think jjp actually what they do their screens are so big that they're allowed to have movie clips in the middle and then static data in the corners so you always know what's going on with the multiball or your mode or your this your that I I would love for stern to go a little bigger but I would love like he's saying more powerful everything so well just hoping it doesn't uh raise the game cost thousands of dollars well yeah I me you never we all hope that but there is something on the LCD that I think that they could still do that Xbox does this and it's fantastic fantastic it's since they have achievements right with the stern Insider connect why not enable the user to be able to pick out the three achievements that you're going for that you keep making progress for and have that progress bar stay up on the LCD screen to where you can easily track it because there is a lot of people out there and they're going they seem like they're going all in on Insider connected so that that's another way to drop down that barrier to where somebody wants to earn a quest badge or something like that they actively see their progress going towards that so instead of playing and then having to check your phone or go back to your computer and refresh it you actively see the progress happening in real time I think that would be awesome if they did something like that there is so much they can do with Insider connect huge shout out to Ben Ben there's a guy that works at at Stern I think he talked to all of us he listens to all the pinball content so passionate what a nice guy um intelligent is what he is like highly intelligent well spoken yeah he's the guy that that draws all of the badges and so I think he's got a lot of drive there and I'm very curious to see I I they're going to do a lot they're going to do a lot with Insider connected and and Gomez did talk about it that as of right now all The Insider connected stuff there's a ton of data but they are paying they use Amazon servers they're paying for that like Stern is paying for that and that's the thing that they're realizing is they can do so much more with it but anytime that you add custom stuff like what you're saying Travis the database and the resource coures are going to grow so much and so that's where there may actually be a need for The Insider plus program where you pay whatever $30 a year but you get additional features um so as of what they did clarify just before people get pissed basically everything that you currently have an Insider connected they have full intention of keeping completely free it's just I think they have some bigger ideas maybe it's home leader boards maybe it is you know kind of individual customizable things if you're GNA get that level of uniqueness um there's probably gonna be a cost to that I let's go ahead and just figure this out real quick then would you guys be willing to pay a yearly fee if you knew behind that fee was a bunch of Kick-Ass features that you saw extreme value in that you knew you wanted to use yes I would I would too personally especially as a home buyer you know like you know but if I got the chance to play Joel head-to-head you know in a heads up format on the display yeah itd pay for one of us would be wiping the other's ass I it depends on sure you're going down I I really hope somebody's just like skipped through this podcast and they just got to that point yeah yeah um I it well first and foremost it depends on the cost if they're saying it's $400 a year everything's going to have a utility everything's going to have utility you know 40 yeah I think think about it if they charge something like that why does it have to stop at just for you to use at home why can't you bring that over to location too to have access to other stuff I think that's completely fair to do obviously everything has a cost but the same thing happens with Xbox I pay multiple yearly fees for all my kids to have Xbox Live and for me to have Xbox Live and so and there's rewards that comes with it so I get to put like Microsoft points into like another membership with it or into getting merch or into getting a gift card so yeah there's a of different ways to SK this but it right but it has to be something that you know the end user wants to for them yeah and the great thing is they were very clear that that's their Guiding Light on that it's does the user want this and so that's that's an excellent way to look at it because then we are not going to get stuff in which it's just thrown out there just to say oh I hope this works right it's if the end user wants it y Joel do you got to go wipe another ass no you your off it's like you hear a noise and it's just like I thought you were thinking of something very thoughtful because he's like is it no I think we're good you making sure your wife's still mowing the lawn is that what's happen no I think we're good um yeah so but yeah Insider connect I I like it I think they're going the right direction with it overall and you know I know it's been slowo in terms of like everybody getting to see what they wanted to see uh for instance there's no Forum yet yet but hopefully they get a form going they figure that part out and they can do that on you know message boards because obviously everybody loves message boards but I think they're going the right way with the quest and all that because I see people all the time following it and when we saw the numbers for the March Madness stuff that was awesome yeah they figured out a way to get people to actively in engage with the product and that is massive when you can figure out how to do that and you can get somebody to re-engage with the product month over month that's how you get growth yeah yeah no for sure I for the sake of time I just realized we have there's this is why we have we have three topics we wait this is why everything goes doing the interruption go John minutes ahead of time no so are we done with John Wick because John Wick there was a there was something basically John Wick's code is not there yet sorry but it's it's they released 80 but it's not 80% and we've been told before that the 80% is not like the 080 doesn't mean 80% um I think there's a solid base Foundation of code but there's there's a lot there's a lot more that needs to be added in that game and as of right now the the game does a very poor job of of telling you what to do it's just and that's the choreography that needs to be added between light show or call outs or display Graphics something telling you what am I trying to like you'll start a mode it flashes on screen how to beat the mode and that's it like and then you just have a you have a like you have no idea what you're doing in the mode or multiball or this it's a step above where Bond was when it came out I would say yeah yeah and so that's that I think what we're saying is it it's tough having the pen come out like this knowing that we got to wait four to six months for it to start fleshing itself out correct yeah and that's something that I have no doubt I I really like the way the game shoots I really do uh we had mention just real quick uh I do like the way the shoot the premium shoots better and that's just because the crate is so much easier to hit um than on the pro I like how the pro shoots better I I also I will say if I was to recommend which version of the game to buy I think I would recommend the pro honestly I just the other things that are in the game I don't I think the pro is a it's kind of like a Turtles like it's it's it's basically it's a complete pack package it really is a solid game start to finish so I do think the pro especially with expression lights is the way to go so anyways code I just there's a long way to go for the code it's a solid base but it created a really good conversation between us all which is um we like complex code we do but when yes when a a a novice person or a casual or pinball Enthusiast or whatever you want to say steps up to John Wick right now it is near impossible to explain what to do in the game and honestly it's kind of getting that way with a lot of modern games you don't think it's like well it's it's impossible to expl the CR and start a mode that's pretty easy then what but once you start mode then what hit the lit shots oh I mean sure you can say hit the Hit the Lights enemies Hit the lights but it's just but but I think that's where things go Haywire guys I I think that right there like we talk about all the time hit the lit shots right K man Strat but I think that's the disconnect too that I don't know it's like I want to feel something more when I'm playing and the most exciting parts that I find in a pinball machine is when I know what is going on so I know why I'm hitting a lit shot I know why it's going to do the Jack we've talked about this privately the the the Playfield artwork should give you some direction as to what you're doing yes whether there's a lock over here or you know this shot does this you know yes so perfect example that thanks for bringing that up Tom was the um so on John Wick right now like to to get into multiball you have to bash the Continental building and then lock shots in the middle thankfully the announcer says like ball one or like lock lit or something like there's some indication but as of right now there's nothing there's no light that indicates to hit the middle ramp to lock a ball we and are very there is a light but not on the ramp it's on the back panel and it blinks just telling you that the lock is available but there's nothing if if if you're playing and you're like okay what shot do I hit to to lock the ball you have no idea I hope they make that little the the arrow in the middle green green usually means lock but it's little stuff like that that they could do it or even the car multiball like to start that multiball you have to bash you have hit the left like here's an idea for a modder make some kind of mod where you actually light the ramp up with those lights in the back oh so when that flashes when that flashes your ramp's flashing I think on the pro and premium because it has that extra I think there is an additional light on the ramp but it's not there on the pro I'm sorry premium and Ellie but I agree but it's just little things like that and the conversation we're having in the background is we're using Deadpool as example like there are inserts that say lock you know or that are green or there is there's um or Deadpool it was like shoot here it actually says on the cabinet shoot on the game shoot here um or they were using uh Bond 60th like Bon 60th has inserts that are green that say lock you know and it's just little things like that that I do think we we need to make sure we're not stepping away from the important how important inserts are to communicate have question for you Joel uh oh I'm ready you've played you've played Jaws I have how do you know when you're supposed to lock a ball that's a great question and what's funny is when we were having this conversation I was thinking okay well we all love Ellen right so is he doing a good job of explaining it and I realized you know like on Godzilla on the building I don't there's nothing that says to lock the ball but the building does drop down a Rel modern pinball has a Reliance on the RGB is what they have so if a if a insert starts turning a different color yeah it's our job to figure out what that color means and it's Universal that somebody new to pinball won't know this but green is typically a lock we know this as pinball players because we have the mental representation of previous games it's like Pavlov's dog that's what we've been trained to know so that's kind of I think we've seen that over time happen yeah right we are learning that but it is when there's a physical ball lock it's easy to point to you know like Simpsons and the couch like get the ball up there um but and I get it that John Wick has a physical ball lock but it's just it it's there is um we've talked about it before when we talked about DMD versus LCD but it's it's really hard to I think a lot of designers rely so much on the display and if that cor if that choreography and the call outs and the coordination isn't going to get there until 0.9 something code 1.0 code to find finally flush everything out to really communicate what you're going to do it's hard when these games are first released to to really know what to do unless you study unless you watch videos unless you ask right you know and um so i' I've figured out this much and I I've thought about this a lot I've tried to like I've studied it I've tried to figure it out and I think what essentially we're talking about is finding a way to bridge the gap between what is very complicated at times and complex at times to something that's understandable and often times we have to bridge this Gap with somebody that may not have the skill set to even do it right even in if even if they understand it they may not be able to do it so that becomes a whole separate issue that essentially whenever you start a mode the way that I view this you are then on a journey to the end of that mode right you're you're on a journey you're hitting different shots it's telling you what to do it's giving you feedback but you're doing that to get to a payoff so that payoff could be a risk reward feature to where you're cashing in value right you're hitting a jackpot I think what it comes down to is figuring out how do we compress that journey into something that is easily understandable for whoever's playing because if you do that then you have fun and then you make the frequency of the payoffs much higher and then you have the in-game events happen at a much more rapid pace for somebody that may not be even an average player and that's where you bring the fun into it that's where you bring that I don't feel like I'm getting my ass wiped or anything like that right Joel so that I mean that's that's the whole point of it right I I think that's really what it boils down to so and we see that play out with Pulp Fiction right we see that play out with elwin's many events that he put into Godzilla that people like and I think that's something that I really hope people start adopting you know IND wide is figuring out how to compress down and look at it as each mode and each thing is its own little mini event how do I compress that down into something that's understandable something that's fun something that's simple enough right to where the beginner can appreciate it but yet something that is challenging and rewarding enough at the payoff to where the expert wants to do it right that's the key completely agree and the examples I have in my head anything with a progress bar you know Guardians of the Galaxy there's progress bar um uh Godzilla every battle there's you know gigen it's how many out of eight shots you've had and it it's very clear you're hitting the ramps it tells you to do that um uh I know um other Deadpool like you actually have the health bar of the guy and the only things that are lit are the shots that are going to hurt him you know that's a great Point Joel I mean honestly I mean I I love those features in games cuz you know when you're going to finish that that mode and all that but y um yeah we well I knew Jaws I had Elizabeth geki on the screen and I'm like Hey how do I know how many more shots I have in this mode and she's like well I think you have like two but it's there wasn't as as far as I know I don't think jaws has a progress bar yet for well it makes it it makes it tough too if all the lights are going off at the same time too and it feels like everything's an event then nothing's an event sure so a great example of a game that does this very well or mode that I absolutely love is Rush Fly by Night the fact that the lights start dimming out more and more that's instant feedback that you know you're doing something right and then the payoff of hitting the time machine up the middle for your jackpot yeah stuff like that that is something yeah that's stuff that's easy to understand for somebody Foo Fighters has a great progress bar it's always clear what where you're at or how far you are in each mode um so and that varies based on how ramped up your van is so I I I think the more to be a it just just could be you know you have like like like you were alluding to on Godzilla you know g y totally it could be that or it could even I don't I assume this is possible to code in I don't know I'm not a coder but something like a light just flashing quicker and quicker and quicker to give you the idea that's not just a hurry up but there is progress being made there because it's aimed at gaining your attention so if you could isolate part of the Playfield to where that light isn't just solid isn't just flashing but the frequency and the velocity or however quick it actually flashes could be an indicator as well something like that and I think we we have that like that is pinball but it's figuring out how do we isolate that to where it's an end-game event so Avengers Infinity uh infinity or Avengers I'll just say that Avengers it's it's where right that's what you're talking about Infinity Quest so there we go I finally got it out the uh the Hulk spinner right when the gamma spin start when you hit that inline switch you know instantly that right there sound and yep all the feedback you do not need an LCD screen to indicate that to you yep so those are the things I like about a pinball machine I wish there was more of maybe that's a good Challenger challenge for a designer that it's just like when you get into this mode or this multiball is there how do you know through audio and light show your total progress because I know like Jaws there are certain things where the chum line the way the chum Line's lit is actually showing you progress I think it's something with one of the multiballs but just little things like that like how how do we continue to show or communicate the more that you can communicate the progress what you're doing and the fact that what you're doing is correct and if you could do that without just assuming you look up at the LCD screen that would be awesome that would be really I'm sure that's thought of too but I think a large part of it is a Reliance on what the LCD is giving for information and what the RGB is giving for information as well and sometimes it's just hard to see if the ball's flying around you have to make those decisions so quick anyways true but man that that last shot on Deadpool when you hit the scoop I mean the whole light show show is strobing towards the scoop you have an A you have a heartbeat in your ears going nuts and then the moment you s that because it's flashing me toward it's telling me to hit this thing flashing that's what's great it's just the only Spotlight it's a spotlight effect and yeah if I was if I knew how to code a game I would want Spotlight effects Galore in terms of like saying this is the end of the mode or you're getting closer to the end of the mode I'd want you to feel that that impact knowing you in technology I would call it a win if the game turned on so we'll uh we'll see wow he just wiped your buns wiped them I got them good over my God we're at an hour we're at an hour we we have one last topic people want more Joel yes I know but my kids have to eat lunch too so um uh the last topic and I don't want to rush it because I know this is important topic but I think it is something that we are going to talk about more and that's fun house and the reason we're going to talk about more is Travis works for the pinball company the pinball company has been involved in this in the process of this game coming to parition is that the right word for over a year for a long time so Travis actually knows stuff about this um so I'm going to shut up for a second but uh yeah fun house Travis go for it I mean what do you want to know I knew it was coming I knew it was coming you just can't you can't I set the ball on the te and he goes swing the bat want what do you want to do you want me to just do an infomercial or something like oh uh yeah I mean I was the game was streamed right so it's really oh God [ __ ] oh you would you would So Pro prototype games yeah yeah yeah all right so I'll just get this out here I mean if you haven't seen it like yeah I can't control it but the bottom line is is yes there is gameplay footage that is out there that's that's being shown as like the first gameplay footage it was not supposed to be recorded footage it was it's unauthorized it was on code that wasn't even meant to be accessed so because these games are prototyped so everybody that's watching it you're watching a Prototype game that was just set up for the show just to get feedback from people and unfortunately is being played on a code that wasn't even supposed to be like there at all like and if I even explain the background of this code you guys would laugh your asses off but I don't want to even give that out publicly I will just say it's not supposed to be seen at all so we do have a 1.5 code and I've been game testing this now for like probably three or four months at this point so you know we're going to show the gameplay very very soon I actually have to record that this weekend so 1.5 code's going to be seen but yeah like so far the Project's been excellent like I I know a lot of people speculate on well why do Funhouse and all that Funhouse is just an incredibly powerful theme and we're seeing the results in that with how many people have already gotten in on a midnight Edition it's a lot more than what people realize so people just like their fun house but I will say if you have a like if you have your own fun house already and original like we don't even want you to get rid of it like if you love your fun house keep playing it all this is it's more less just a reimagining a fun house and if you want to if you feel like that's an upgrade and then you feel like that's something you want to do awesome if not keep jamming away on your fun house because it's it's popular enough people discover it people want to play it it's just an install theme it's just yeah it's a lot of fun so we're doing a lot of stuff with that though so we're going to we have like a a manufacturer visit coming up pretty soon to go over to Patti see a bunch of stuff there's going to be lots more information coming out very very soon and I believe last time I heard like games are they're actively being manufactured right now I can I can say that publicly and I think it'll probably be like maybe mid July somewhere around there that's the estimated time that we'll start seeing come out but I think over here in the US I would probably this is just an estimate so don't hold me to it but it would probably be like the end of summer early fall sometime around there that's the goal but we want make us right yeah to get it to customers and everything but we want want make sure it's ready yes yes just in time for Expo so stay tuned for that and um yeah I mean it'll be a lot of fun I I've played it for a while and the great thing is is the coils can be adjusted like the strength of the coil not do in the original so yeah people can kind of customize their experience how they feel and it like the copies I have it plays like a funh housee which which I like you know so yeah that's all I got for now that's the update yeah I know we got a lot more coming I mean the games are technically for sale I know like Zach with flipping out he has them obviously the pinball company has them there's Distributors they are selling they're selling well um but yeah if you go on Padre's website I think you'll see a link to all the Distributors so they're they're selling pretty well overseas and selling well here as as well so but yeah I would say keep an eye out on for the pinball Company on YouTube I'm assuming Travis is going to make some content there if you're interested or I know Zach is trying to get me one to stream as soon as possible um so there should be more content coming out uh but at the end of the day it is fun housee it's it's funh house so if you want to know yeah what's that game about there's a lot of there's a lot of video there's a lot of tournament play there's a lot out there of that game uh now the 2.0 code sure that's going to be new there's new new stuff there and that hasn't been fully released or revealed yet um which is in terms of what's coming for it yeah there's some refinements coming but yeah I mean mainly on the 1.5 it's mainly like an autop plunge feature which is pretty cool so you get like a quick little ball save and then of course you have the DMD that has the different animations and stuff like that so call me show all you want buy the game that's what I 1.5 is it is the original game just with some new just with updated graphics and new mod new anything it's just it's just tweaks it's it's a ease of life for better life improvements kind of thing like just think of like a it's modernizing sure what it was before that's essentially all it is but same call out same voice with that same same everything it's like the fun house like all the bones of the fun house that you know and love is there wonderful well uh yeah this has been quite an episode it's been very uh yeah we I had fun Joel always had fun hang Tom record about we had we agreed to record about an hour before we started recording and uh you know life happens so um you know uh think of us next time you wipe somebody else's butt because we're we're all in this together is that let's plug it up yeah let's plug it up Tom go for it man uh you can find me on this podcast or Fox City's pinball on YouTube twitch uh Facebook Instagram wonderful Travis you can find me on this very Channel as well tpn uh triple drain podcast and the pinball company as well so feel free to uh go over there see the content I do there but also see the content that Joel does flipping out see the content that Tom does with that and yeah like that's that's all I got it's fun timball is fun I've had a great time buy a wick buy a fun house I don't care who you buy it from just go buy it chill shill shill everything chill shill chill y love love life yes I completely agree and uh huge shout out we actually did get a few uh new patreon uh supporters in the last like month or two so thank you so much for the people that continue to support us there once again the show is always free it's always available if you're just looking for a way to support us that's what patreon's for so thank you for all the people that do that uh same thing silver ball swag apparently people keep buying the swag so appreciate that it's insane the yeah we really really appreciate that and um yeah you can check me out uh every Wednesday night on Flipping Out The Flipping Out YouTube channel uh we just did a chatting stream which was a lot of fun no stream this week because of vacation but I will be back at it the week after that um otherwise yeah check out this continue to listen to the podcast we really appreciate the support if you're watching on YouTube hit the thumbs up leave a comment all the things smash the like button subscribe all that all that great yeah all that stuff share like do yeah yeah perfect by Tom you got it man you got the last you're beautiful Tom come on Tom lead us out always wipe your buns