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Karl DeAngelo of IE Pinball - Episode 14

JBS Show·podcast_episode·25m 24s·analyzed·Jan 24, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

Karl DeAngelo discusses competitive pinball, tournament streaming production, and skill development.

Summary

Jamie Birchall interviews Karl DeAngelo (IE Pinball), a top competitive pinball player (ranked 30th pro, 36th open) and accomplished tournament streamer. The discussion covers DeAngelo's competitive career trajectory, tournament streaming production techniques, equipment choices (Sony ZV-1 cameras, OBS, wireless rigs), and his philosophy on covering competitive pinball. DeAngelo shares advice on skill development, discusses the evolution of Indisc tournament streaming from 2012 to present, and reflects on the growing professionalization of competitive pinball as a spectator sport.

Key Claims

  • Indisc has been held since around 2012 and was started by Karl and Jim locally in Southern California

    high confidence · Karl explicitly states 'Yeah, since day one. Myself and Jim, we won the tournament local to Southern California because at the time there weren't any big tournaments in Southern California.'

  • Karl won Indisc in 2015 and 2017

    high confidence · Karl confirms: 'Right.' when Jamie asks 'You won in 2015 and 2017, right?'

  • Indisc became a major tournament when it moved to the Riverside Convention Center about three years ago, with Zach McCarthy winning the first open major there

    high confidence · Karl states: 'no it was once we were at the um riverside convention center right uh three years ago so zach mccarthy was the first one that won the the open itself'

  • Karl uses Sony ZV-1 and ZV-1 Mark II cameras, bought used from Amazon, for tournament streaming

    high confidence · Karl: 'I'm using all Sony ZV-1s now. Or ZV-1 Mark IIs. I have one ZV-1 Mark II and everything else is ZV-1s. I buy them used on Amazon.'

  • Karl switched from XSplit to OBS approximately three years ago due to better features and plugin support

    high confidence · Karl: 'I actually switched from X, but the OBS just maybe three years ago, I was using X split for the longest time... And OBS had more features, more everything, you know, plugins.'

  • Jeff Teelis organizes the commentary team for Indisc tournaments with pre-scheduling and backup commentators

    high confidence · Karl: 'That's Jeff Teelis that's organizing that for me... and he does a fantastic job putting the team together. We pre-schedule it so that everyone knows when they're coming on'

  • Karl uses two wireless rigs for streaming, with plans to expand the system using dedicated computers on each rig to reduce Wi-Fi interference

    high confidence · Karl describes the technical setup: 'basically pop everything into a local obs on the rig itself and then i have one transmitter going back to the main station and then i could you know theoretically run up to six rigs if i'm running six wireless connections'

Notable Quotes

  • “I like to say one of the best training formats is the, it's not played much, but the heads up pinball format... everyone wants to rush through it so it's kind of you know similar to this but if you take your time slow down if you're the player that's calm and relaxed you're probably the one that's going to win that uh that battle”

    Karl DeAngelo @ ~23:00 — Provides practical advice on competitive pinball skill development, emphasizing patience over speed

  • “the focus of the tournament isn't on the commentators it's on the players so that's why i try i i want to focus in on the specific people playing and that's why we follow the same group uh for an entire round you want to watch that story of these four players”

    Karl DeAngelo @ ~35:00 — Explains streaming production philosophy: prioritizing player narrative over commentator visibility, mirroring ESPN sports coverage

  • “I went, okay, it's time to pick up more equipment and try and have a production of their scale.”

    Karl DeAngelo @ ~20:00 — Documents the competitive escalation of tournament streaming production quality driven by Papa's presence

  • “That it yeah So I've got one of my, this, my mobile rig right here, this is a touchscreen that I use for when I'm streaming here at home. And then everything else, I've got a, just a Dell touchscreen, secondary monitor on my main PC. And then there's a plugin, a whiteboard plugin written by actually a Pinball community member, Mike Welsh.”

    Karl DeAngelo @ ~39:00 — Credits community-built tools (Mike Welsh's whiteboard plugin) for telestrator functionality, highlighting open-source pinball streaming ecosystem

  • “if i'm getting close to one of my goals you know i can start getting nervous and stressed at that point but the actual stream itself yeah yeah it's more casual”

    Karl DeAngelo @ ~48:00 — Contrasts stress levels between competitive tournament streaming vs casual home streams, showing emotional labor differences

  • “I i don't look at you anyone as competitors right i look at everyone as different channels... and i'm always you know helping if you really are give me a message”

    Karl DeAngelo — Emphasizes collaborative, non-competitive approach to tournament streaming between community streamers

Entities

Karl DeAngelopersonJamie BirchallpersonIE PinballorganizationIndisceventWormhole PinballorganizationJeff TeelispersonZach McCarthypersonEscher Lefkoffperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Tournament streaming infrastructure becoming increasingly specialized and production-heavy, with dedicated rigs, multiple cameras, wireless systems, and backup equipment

    high · Karl uses 2 main rigs, multiple Sony ZV-1 cameras, 8 massive batteries, wireless transmission systems, touchscreen telestrator monitors, with plans to expand to theoretical 6-rig capacity

  • ?

    community_signal: Karl DeAngelo and other tournament streamers (Fox Cities, JDL) are actively professionializing competitive pinball broadcasting, elevating production quality and viewership

    high · Karl streams Indisc with 15,000 concurrent Twitch viewers, uses professional multi-rig camera system, implements ESPN-style narrative coverage focused on player stories rather than commentator visibility

  • ?

    community_signal: Non-competitive streaming culture: tournament streamers view each other as collaborators rather than competitors, with willingness to share technical knowledge and support infrastructure

    high · Karl explicitly states 'I don't look at you anyone as competitors right i look at everyone as different channels' and mentions Jim Lindsey and Fox Cities having same collaborative philosophy

  • $

    market_signal: Competitive pinball positioning itself as legitimate sport with growing viewership, production quality approaching ESPN standards, and potential for dedicated streaming category/channel

    medium · Jamie proposes Twitch should create 'competitive pinball' sub-category; both discuss growth of sport; Jamie compares production quality to 'ESPN's the Ocho'; discussion of spreading pinball tournaments nationally (Indisc, TPF, Texas State, etc.)

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.076

0:00
hello you are listening to and are watching our podcast called wormhole pinball presents my name is jamie birchall and today i'm very excited to be joined by carl d'angelo of ie pinball carl welcome to the wormhole virtually thank you jamie appreciate the invite how you feeling first of all uh doing well doing well now yeah good because i understand you you know you were ill during in disc and uh but i also heard you managed to put in a pretty decent one card yeah i got one card in on friday just enough to get somewhere in the mid 70s i think in the uh in the end of things but uh yeah that was unfortunate yeah i was thrilled to have so much help during the event well we'll talk about that later but um for those that don't know in this stands for never drains in southern california and it's been held since what 2012 right around there yeah have you always been involved with Indisc? Yeah, since day one.
0:58
Myself and Jim, we won the tournament local to Southern California because at the time there weren't any big tournaments in Southern California. It was California Extreme. We'd all travel to Northern California for the big event every year.
1:10
We won one here. It started small and grew beyond our expectations. You won in 2015 and 2017, right? Right. some other notable names that have won the open include uh escher lefkoff zach mccarthy now twice uh and keith ellen won a few just to name a few people uh when was it a major when was it always considered a major no it was once we were at the um riverside convention center right uh three years ago so zach mccarthy was the first one that won the the open itself okay i believe I'm pretty sure no no worries yeah yeah but yeah so the last three years I believe Zach McCarthy after Escher Lefkoff and Zach McCarthy again so they've won the majors and what are the other majors for those that don't know we have the IFPA World Championships we have the European Pinball Championships the EPC we have Pemburg now coming back this year and then the defunct one is Papa, the Papa World Championships. Okay.

  • Papa pinball was the first to stream Indisc, and Karl upgraded his production equipment after Papa decided not to return

    high confidence · Karl: 'Papa, when they had their Kickstarter, their final goal was our tournament. And that kind of kicked off when I knew they weren't going to come the next year to stream it. Because they were the first ones to stream in-disc.'

    • @ ~55:00

  • “I think you're growing as a sport. It doesn't have to be on the Ocho. It can be really a cool thing.”

    Jamie Birchall @ ~59:00 — References ESPN's 'Ocho' (fictional sports channel from 30 Rock) as aspirational model for competitive pinball's mainstream growth

    • Papa Pinball
    organization
    Mike Welshperson
    Plutoperson
    Jordanperson
    Rebecca Fliptronicperson
    Texas State Championshipsevent
    Dalton Eliperson
    Fox Cities Winter Bashevent
    Michael Polaroperson
    Janineperson
    Wesleyperson
    Rachel Ristowperson

    personnel_signal: Don (Jeff Teelis) managing commentary logistics for Indisc, suggesting expanded role in tournament organization beyond just media/content creation

    high · Karl: 'That's Jeff Teelis that's organizing that for me... and he does a fantastic job putting the team together. We pre-schedule it' indicating Don handles pre-event coordination and talent management

  • ?

    technology_signal: Evolution of tournament streaming from Papa's initial live coverage (~2015) to current multi-camera, multi-wireless-rig systems with OBS, telestrator plugins, and dedicated production teams

    high · Karl describes transition from Papa as only streamer to now having Karl, Fox Cities, and JDL all producing professional-quality streams with increasingly sophisticated equipment and workflow

    • 2:21
    So this year you were really unable to produce because you weren't feeling well, but I understand Jordan and Rebecca Fliptronic and the Pluto from Twitch helped you tremendously. Yeah, absolutely. Without their help, there wouldn't have been a stream this year.
    2:36
    It was amazing. They did fantastic. I couldn't have asked for anyone better to be helping out. Were you stressed watching them or were you stressed for them or? I was a little stressed for them a little stressed watching. There was one moment where Jordan panicked a bit because someone on the telestrator held their finger down which then wiped out the entire screen and it's the projector screen in OBS so he didn't know how to get it back so I was furiously texting with him and got on a video call finally and got it taken care of but outside of that everything went pretty smoothly I'd say. Yeah I'd say I mean it was an amazing production you had what 15,000 viewers at one point on Twitch that's just incredible it's it's insane and that's all thanks to Pluto you know getting us on the front page well it was also really a phenomenal production and you know Zach McCarthy went in the open again and Dalton Eli winning high stakes was just amazing viewing I mean I was up till two in the morning and it was just amazing pinball so congratulations on another great stream there thank you thank you uh let's shift for a few moments you're currently ranked 30th in the pro ranking and 36th in the open ranking i have no idea what the pro ranking is can you kind of tell me what the difference is uh the pro rankings are the top 250 players are weighted on a different scale it takes into it takes your effective percentage effective something in the into account so and it's um it basically just changes how it's calculated uh to be honest i haven't been following too much of the ipa stuff i mean i watch it but it's gotten to the point that i don't i'm not actively watching my own ranking and how to improve it especially with the pro rankings because it's a different calculation than the main but i know i know i did because i didn't play an indisc or where i got actually dropped quite a bit other people you know bumped up there were so many points available in disc oh yeah i'm sorry my reason for my question is i i don't have a pro ranking and i was just wondering you know what the heck that was and since i'm 2000th in the world and in ifba i think it's going to be a really long time before i get that pro ranking so uh my question another question going back to pinball uh skill set did you have like an aha moment when you first started playing where you said you know what i'm pretty good at this um i've always i mean as a kid i always played i just didn't know about tournaments so i remember you know riding my bike down to the local piece of joint playing adam's family bringing the mansion um you know doing that kind of stuff on all the games i would play but i had no idea if it was a if i was good or not at the time and then going to tournaments uh i won the first league season i was ever in at the orange county pinball league um and that's kind of when i went okay maybe i am good at this and i should start traveling and trying for stuff you know and And I put the IFPA World Championships that were in Bainbridge Island at Tom McCulloch's house. That was the first time I really said, okay, I'm going to be serious. I'm going to work this year and try to get into that World Championship. And I was able to. And I took sixth or seventh there, I think it was, for my first IFPA Worlds, which was phenomenal. And that kicked things off, really. One of the things I watch when I'm watching these competitive pinball is how patient they are. I saw this at Indisc. We saw it this week. We streamed the Texas State Championships. You guys tend not to flip unnecessarily.
    6:14
    And the biggest thing is you go for this bang for your buck If it too risky not going to do it Do you find the patience is a key for some amateur players for them to get going Oh absolutely It's about planning your shots out and planning. Having just a game plan in general when you're playing. Take it easy. Don't rush.
    6:35
    I like to say one of the best training formats is the, it's not played much, but the heads up pinball format. I don't know if you've seen any of this where you have two games side by side and you're racing to a goal, but there's a format that uh you know everyone wants to rush through it so it's kind of you know similar to this but if you take your time slow down if you're the player that's calm and relaxed you're probably the one that's going to win that uh that battle and the same thing goes in uh in regular tournament play you just want to take your time um planning shots i like to cradle up not everyone does some people play on the fly and they play a lot better on the floor um so there's different player styles. But I definitely find for most people, if they slow down, take the time, their skill set will improve. I've noticed that. But I went from down to like 1500th. And so I started making a move. And then I wasn't dead bouncing well enough. So now I've tried to incorporate that in my game. And it's just put me in a tizzy. I'm not there yet. But I'll get there. I mean, it's fun. I'm not going to be in the top 1,000, but I just enjoy the hell out of playing, and I love the competitive aspect of it. It's just really fun. But you might be. I mean, why wouldn't you be? I don't know the time, the games, knowledge that you guys have. I'm starting to get it just because I commentate so much.
    7:54
    Yeah, it takes a lot of time. You have to know all the games. One of the things I was talking with Rebecca recently, and we were talking about she really wants to win the women's state championship in Texas. We're actually talking about analyzing her play and going over, watching her stream and give her some pointers on what she did here, what she did there, why did you make this decision. It's something I think anyone that wants to improve their game, go back and review your footage if you can or record yourself playing and watch the footage. If you see a crucial moment coming, pause the video and think, okay, what would you do in this situation? Would you dead bounce? Would you drop catch and see if you can predict what you did? And if you didn't, then maybe in the future you will.
    8:44
    That is phenomenal advice, ladies and gentlemen. No, really, that's great advice. You know, it makes me think I went back onto your videos on demand on YouTube and you've got a lot of them.
    8:56
    And you started streaming all the way back in 2012, right? You streamed the first the first one you did. You recorded it. I mean, it's been a while. um but you did stream 2015 you made like massive strides in production right i mean you started you probably went from a phone or from one camera to this production i mean was anyone else really streaming competitive pinball back in 2015 so yeah there was a papa was streaming okay they were and uh then you also had um the elwins heath and randy were actually taking recorded video of gameplay at Calvary Extreme when they went. They had a whole rig that they would bring and then record it for later.
    9:41
    But Papa, when they had their Kickstarter, their final goal was our tournament. And that kind of kicked off when I knew they weren't going to come the next year to stream it. Because they were the first ones to stream in-disc.
    9:54
    I went, okay, it's time to pick up more equipment and try and have a production of their scale. yeah well i think you've your production is unbelievable let's let's talk about tournament streaming real quick because i love it i it's one of my favorite things to do is to turn them in stream here at the wormhole and you know we're just trying not to so much copy you but just go okay i mean how can we incorporate this i love how he's doing this i love what they're doing here i mean it's really a compliment i mean you've really set the bar very high for us a little too high sometimes because when i watch your streams really quick i think i'm watching espn maybe the ocho but i really do think it's like an espn event oh well thank you yeah i mean do you have a vast technology background that kind of helps you with this yeah i've always been in it uh my professional career so it just comes naturally to me um you know working in obs and and all the cameras have just been a hobby you know and just upgraded over the years you know as you're not you're a constant tinkerer right you're constantly trying to make it better always changing every year i've got something new on the rig like this year the new thing my my favorite thing from end disc was buying these massive batteries i mean these these gigantic single batteries that i don't have to worry about you know the little ones and plugging them in and constantly i've got eight of them yeah yeah exactly exactly so so because i knew yeah space between games to use this thing uh i I love it. It, you know, like 60% battery. Yeah. I bought those for, uh, TPF because we got classics wizards, all these things. Right. And at the end of the day, you're right. It's 60%. You've only used 60%. I mean, it's just incredible. These batteries, you can't take them on a plane. You're not supposed to anyway, but, uh, so use OBS. Can I ask you, you seem to be the OBS expert. Why is the crash? And why does that happen to me? Well, I have mine crashed too. I actually switched from X, but the OBS just maybe three years ago, I was using X split for the longest time. Oh really? I finally went to, yeah. And then that thing just, they stopped supporting it really. And OBS had more features, more everything, you know, plugins. So no, why is it crash? I, I could not tell you to be honest. I was hoping for that. If I use studio mode on mine, I mean, it does crash. So that's one thing I annoyed with is like, I didn't, this guy really liked to use studio mode. so I can see what's coming up and not be blind going into a camera, but that makes my machine crash for whatever reason. Yeah, mine is Windows Capture. The Windows Capture function itself will get caught up. Okay.
    12:33
    I don't know, but I got to use it. You have to? Yeah. Try different browsers If you haven already Normally I using Firefox for whenever I do a window capture instead of Chrome or Edge I use Firefox Okay. Well, then that's not going to help you out. Sorry. No, no, no, no, no worries.
    12:53
    You don't get on air very much when you're at InDesk. No. You prefer to have a group of commentators? Yeah. It's always a group of commentators, and that's Jeff Teelis that's organizing that for me. Yeah. and he does a fantastic job putting the team together. We pre-schedule it so that everyone knows when they're coming on and so there's no surprises. So we're always ready, and he has a couple backups in case someone that was supposed to be in the booth is actually playing in finals. But the last two years we've done that, and it's helped out tremendously just with the quality of the group and the commentating. I need to do that for TPF because it's kind of a flowing thing, and I don't like that as much. I need the organization for it and it drives me bananas and I don't want to hurt people's feelings by saying no Bob Matthews has only been on for 15 minutes I don't want to hurt people's feelings so I need that structure we'll see if I can pull that off on the flip side if you don't do that there are some that will tend to stay in the booth for 6 or 8 hours it's nice to rotate out and have a fresh perspective you don't show your commentators much because you know right what's that philosophy because it's like espn doesn't show you know i mean the the the the focus of the tournament isn't on the commentators it's on the players so that's why i try i i want to focus in on the specific people playing and that's why we follow the same group uh for an entire round you want to watch that story of these four players and how they do how they progress how many rigs do you have i have two rigs and the second rig I mean, I've had two rigs for a while. The Indus was the first time I'd actually tried using both at once.
    14:37
    I don't know if I'll do it again at the convention center because the Wi-Fi is just an absolute mess. They are just blasting the entire room with massive amounts of 2.4 and 5 gigahertz to the point that things just drop out. It's wild.
    14:56
    But yeah, two rigs. Normally at home, I use wireless, but after Indusguided rewired things up for actually a wired connection here. So we used our first two rigs. I call it the two rig system because I'm a dork. And so I implemented the two rig system first time Texas State Championships. Rebecca's in here with me, and it is rocking. What we did is we did a primary group, kind of like golf, right? You've got your foursome that you want to follow. And I called the other rig two pop-in group. For three hours, Carl? perfect yep and it all went to hell it all went to all my other cameras on rig two all the i had a perfect rig one that was all set and i tinkered with other things for rig two and it just didn't work so we're not that was not ready for prime time so i just scrapped it in the semis and followed just one group yeah yeah and that's kind of what we did at the end of indus i told them turn off that second rig because it was causing interference and i wanted to make sure that primary rig was was always rock solid yeah i saw you i saw them do that and i said oh that won't happen to me so the one thing i have been working on is trying to i want to i want to get a a dedicated computer on each rig and then i only have one wireless transmitter so i basically pop everything into a local obs on the rig itself and then i have one transmitter going back to the main station and then i could you know theoretically run up to six rigs if i'm running six wireless connections i won't have six rigs because that's ridiculous amount of equipment but the uh but the idea is that less interference with wi-fi you know you're using less wireless transmitters so hopefully i've got six axons yeah yeah exactly and i think that's my limit or my wife will murder me if i'm more excellent i'm with you there i mean my god uh do you prefer a three or two person booth uh it depends on the tournament the uh the larger tournaments i want three on anything small i'll take a two okay do you have official rig mover no it's usually me this this this year was the first time i really had help that uh i felt i could i could count on moving the rig i don't have because I'm on air, right? So I'm jumping back and forth. And so I like a couple of players that I know I trust as rig movers. And so you'll see me tend to follow them a little more. I don't mean it. I just trust them to put it in. Wesley, he knows that he's very, very trusted. So what kind of cameras do you like to choose? And I'm not going to rip everything you say off. I'm just kidding. No, no, it's fine. And I've always meant to get a website up with all my equipment. I just never have. It's just the time to put stuff together. But I'm using all Sony ZV-1s now. Or ZV-1 Mark IIs. I have one ZV-1 Mark II and everything else is ZV-1s. I buy them used on Amazon. Yeah, me too. You must be fighting with me because... I'm done. Done. No more. All right, because I only have two. And then I bought a ZV-1F and I don't like it. No, yeah, because I want the zoom capability. Even if I had wide-angle lenses to my ZV-1s. Really? Yeah. For the player and the score, I add those. Not for the play field. That's just fine. Player, score, wide angle lens. Especially the score. Yeah, that way. And I put those on a really long magic arm so that I can move it where I need to to get the scores. All right. That's some good information there, ladies and gentlemen, for me and nobody else. But I'm sorry about that. We had Texas State championship this weekend and former champ Comic-Con partner sitting next to me. And he's commentating. and he goes, do you have a tablet for me? I said, dude, my name is Jamie. It is not Carl. I do not have a tablet for you. You have to point to your screen that I gave you, and I'll use Epic Pen.
    18:55
    The tablet system seems brilliant. It's awesome. The tablet as in the telestrator The telestrator that you have for everyone And all that is is a touchscreen monitor That all you need for OBS That it That it yeah So I've got one of my, this, my mobile rig right here, this is a touchscreen that I use for when I'm streaming here at home. And then everything else, I've got a, just a Dell touchscreen, secondary monitor on my main PC. And then there's a plugin, a whiteboard plugin written by actually a Pinball community member, Mike Welsh. What do you have moving forward stream-wise? what do you have coming up uh nothing well i i'll be streaming pemberg in july i'm actually going to send all my equipment out there to do that apart from that i do wednesday nights as much as i can for my home streams and and then ace gogi whenever we have a launch party we'll do the heads up launch uh finals as are you going to stream the national i mean the internet or that what is it this in southern california the nationals or the uh not national what is it the one that yeah the the world's all i'll see that i mean the gym belt seat is yeah okay that's gonna be awesome yeah that should be fun i'm um yeah yeah do you have less stress on your wednesday streams than you do on the tournaments because i have these we do monday night streams and they're very untrustful at all it's just who cares uh yeah i'd say i'd say so i mean i i can still like when i'm streaming on my own if i'm getting close to one of my goals you know i can start getting nervous and stressed at that point but the actual stream itself yeah yeah it's more casual um one day i want to invite you to houston not only for the houston arcade expo which is a blast by the way it's more of a fun party than it is but the tournament's serious based city open but the expo itself's just a blast but we are uh building a museum and i want you to come to the wormhole because this place is really awesome i think you'd really love it uh i don't know if you can see this pins behind me but yeah and i've heard i've heard about it recently from uh michael polaro i believe was out there oh what yeah he i he came in and he sent us an email and he said hey i'm gonna be in town any chance you could be open and i said well it's wednesday night tech night you want to come and grab a cloth and he you know i didn't put him to work or anything as much as he wants he's a good dude but uh go to um houston arcade expo this past year but i had to cancel that trip but yeah one day i've been meaning to get to it are you gonna go to tpf this year not this year not this a lot of people aren't going to tpf they just couldn't get it in their schedule this year it's like a lot of travel is a lot of people are cutting down travel this year yeah of course you can contact the wormhole at wormhole pinball at gmo.com and please let us uh follow us on twitch and youtube and all the social media platforms all of your videos on demand uh can be viewed on vods on youtube right on ie pinball most of them yeah you have to check those out and you already have 9,000 individuals on Twitch. Why not get to 10,000? I think you're right there that are following you on Twitch. Carl, thanks again for hanging out with me tonight. I really appreciate it. I wanted to make it a short and sweet interview and just, just hang out with you for a little bit virtually at the wormhole. And thank you for everything you've done for this hobby and sport. I, I really appreciate it. And I love streaming competitive pinball and I love watching you guys do it. Thank you so, so much. Oh, thank you, Jamie. I really appreciate that. No, listen, thank you so much for taking your time with me this evening i really appreciate it uh sorry i was a little nervous but you know you're carl d'angelo you're the uh you and fox cities and jdl are what we're striving to do here right i mean you guys just i've really set the bar very high and i appreciate that because i really don't look at you anyone as competitors right i look at everyone as different channels exactly exactly yeah that's how i always look at it too and i'm always you know helping if you really are give me a message and jim lindsey's the same way right and fox cities is the exact same way everyone in this community is so helpful and it's so appreciative because one day what i really love is like a sub thing on twitch this is pinball competitive streaming or something how cool would that be another type of category kind of thing another category under pinball right you know pinball competitive pinball i would just be so awesome because the sport is really grown. It's thanks to people like yourself and Papa and everyone who's made it happen. We might know the guy. I know, but that would be awesome because I think it's growing as a sport. It doesn't have to be on the Ocho. It can be really a cool thing. Carl, thanks for your time. I really appreciate it. Sorry for getting nervous, but we'll get through it. It's all good, Jamie. Thank you for editing on Jamie's behalf. That's not fun. It's okay. I'm getting good at it when you screw up as much as I do. Thank you, Carl. you have a great day and i appreciate you sir thank you wow that was one of the first times in an interview that i've had that i was actually really really nervous and uh it's just i'm very appreciative of carl and taking the time to meet with me and talk with me and and give his knowledge you know because he worked really hard he built such a phenomenal stream and for him to take the time to to uh to meet with me was really appreciative uh really want to thank tim and Christine Hood for making all this possible for us. And also for opening up this great place for the Texas state championship, for both the open and for the women's championship. What a weekend we had here. We had a phenomenal weekend and I just want to get some quick thanks to everyone here. So I'm going to look over to the side, but first of all, John Spates, feel better, buddy. Okay. Thanks again for all your hard work this last weekend. You were incredible. uh, comma, cop line, Phil Grimaldi and Elizabeth Rone for putting up the amazing state finals. It just did a phenomenal job. They really did. And all the texts that make these machines completely sing, uh, Brian, Zach, Lee, Spence, Mike Flanagan, Travis Mosman, Alex, and Brandon for helping me with the two rig system. We'll get it. We'll get it down, brother. Uh, and at last but not least, my beautiful wife, Janine, who not only puts up with me and puts up with this hobby, but really supports it and supports what we're doing here at the wormhole. And she is the first one here after a big tournament to come and clean the next day. And she's the best. I mean, what are you going to say about her? She's the best. I love you so much. And I'll be back next week. Warm Up Pinball presents with Rachel Ristow of Wisconsin fame. That should be a lot of fun. Thank you guys so much for listening and watching. I really appreciate you. And we're getting better. We're getting better.