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Ep 88 - One down, two to go!

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·45m 38s·held·Jan 21, 2020
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Special When Lit Pinball Podcast announces closure after 19 months; hosts transition to streaming only.

Summary

Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb announce that Special When Lit Pinball Podcast will end after three more episodes (final upload February 4th), citing scheduling conflicts and burdensome time commitments. They will continue streaming on Twitch. The episode covers industry news including Stranger Things (Premium/LE) stream reveal, Spooky's free animated topper for Rick and Morty buyers, rumors of a Guns N' Roses N' Roses pinball machine, and an extended discussion about Jurassic Park standing as potentially Stern's best game of all time.

Key Claims

  • Special When Lit Pinball Podcast will end after February 4th episode, their final upload for the foreseeable future

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell, host, announcement at episode start

  • Slash approached Data East in 1994 to produce Guns N' Roses pinball and was heavily involved in the design process

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg, Jersey Jack update correspondent, citing Slash's involvement in original 1994 machine

  • The rumored new Guns N' Roses N' Roses machine will include 15 Guns N' Roses tracks and be designed by Eric Meunier

    medium confidence · Ken Rudberg reporting rumors about unreleased JJP title

  • Stern gave the first full extreme demo of Stranger Things (Premium/LE) in a home lighting environment on Twitch last Thursday

    high confidence · Craig Bobby, Stern News Correspondent

  • Spooky Pinball is providing free animated interactive toppers to all customers who purchased Rick and Morty (Bloodsuckers or Standard editions)

    high confidence · Industry Buzz correspondent reporting on Spooky's topper giveaway

  • Jurassic Park is ranked at position 8 on Pinside 100 as of late January 2025

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell referencing Pinside rankings during game comparison discussion

  • Special When Lit is the longest-running podcast at about 19 months

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell, explaining podcast longevity before shutdown announcement

  • Bill Webb experienced a one-way gate issue on his Stranger Things (Premium/LE) (Premium/LE) that required repair by prying the wire gate apart

    high confidence · Bill Webb describing technical issue with his personally-owned game

  • Jack and Eric (presumably Jack Danger and Eric Meunier) are both scheduled to appear at Texas Pinball Festival

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg, in context of expected Guns N' Roses announcement timing

Notable Quotes

  • “We've been discussing the potential of maybe ending our show after TPF...our schedules are so hectic it started to become burdensome on personal matters.”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~0:03:00 — Announcement of podcast shutdown decision and reasoning

  • “Special When Lit as a brand, we'll still have a lifestyle brand. But we will still be providing content in the ways of Twitch streaming.”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~0:05:30 — Clarification that hosts will pivot to streaming rather than fully exiting media

  • “Slash is a huge pinball fan. He actually approached Data East back in 1994 to produce the Guns N' Roses pinball machine. He helped design it and was heavily involved in the process.”

    Ken Rudberg @ ~0:08:15 — Key historical context for rumored JJP Guns N' Roses project

  • “At $250 profit on each one of those, that's a ton of money...a straight loss right now. They could have put that in on their accessories for $299.”

    Bill Webb @ ~0:22:45 — Financial analysis of Spooky's topper giveaway strategy and its cost implications

  • “It's probably the best game from Stern...I think Deadpool and Jurassic Park are the two that really stand out to me.”

    Bill Webb @ ~0:35:20 — Personal assessment of Stern's recent game quality and standing

  • “I noticed when I was going back behind there that there were a lot of things that were loose in regards to screws, hex posts, and whatnot.”

    Bill Webb @ ~0:45:30 — Quality control issue report on Stranger Things Premium Edition

  • “I think it was vital that they were able to do that stream...because once pinball collectors see it work well in person, it's going to affect sales positively.”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~0:41:00 — Analysis of importance of Stern's public demonstration stream for consumer confidence

Entities

[name withheld pending review]personBill WebbpersonKen RudbergpersonCraig BobbypersonEric MeunierpersonJack DangerpersonSlashpersonSpecial When Lit Pinball Podcastorganization

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Multiple pinball podcasts shutting down simultaneously: Head to Head Pinball, This Week in Pinball (Dennis Creasel/Zach Menne), Supernova (Lee stepping back), and Special When Lit ending after Feb 4

    high · Ken Cromwell explicitly mentions multiple podcast shutdowns happening in same timeframe; all citing scheduling/time burden reasons

  • ?

    content_signal: Special When Lit transitioning from traditional podcast production to Twitch streaming, citing reduced editing burden and better interactive engagement

    high · Ken Cromwell explains shift: 'The nice thing about streaming is there's not a whole lot of prep that goes into show notes...No editing. No uploading'

  • ?

    product_launch: Stern successfully demonstrated Stranger Things Premium projection mapping technology via Twitch stream after CES concerns about visibility in lighting conditions

    high · Craig Bobby reports successful stream execution; Ken Cromwell confirms projection mapping performed well despite initial CES concerns

  • ?

    product_concern: Stranger Things Premium Edition experiencing loose components (screws, hex posts) out of box; one-way gate hinge failure causing ball hang-ups

    high · Bill Webb reports multiple loose internal components requiring tightening; detailed description of one-way gate off-hinge issue requiring field repair

  • ?

    collector_signal: Spooky Pinball providing free motorized animated toppers (750 units) to Rick and Morty early buyers; estimated $187,500 giveaway vs potential $250+ retail value per topper

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.137

0:00
Coming at you out of St. Charles, Illinois, the special When Lit Pinball Podcast starts now. Hello, Pinball Land. It's episode 88 of the special When Lit Pinball Podcast. I'm your host, Ken Cromwell. And I am Bill Webb. And today we've got a fun show. We're going to just go off the cuff. We don't have a lot prepared in the way of news. So whatever the correspondents throw at us, that's what we're going to discuss. What's going on, Bill? How are you, buddy? Oh, we're good, man. Just another day in paradise, man. How about you? Yeah, another day in paradise. There's a lot of news that's been happening lately. You heard about media shakeups. You've got Head to Head Pinball that essentially said that they're going to hang it up for now.
0:45
You have This Week in Pinball, who's basically said, hey, we're hanging it up for now. Or at least the hosts there, Dennis Creasel and Zach Menne. Yep. They had their goodbye episode today that we listened to. And Lee over at Supernova is like, hey, I've been providing content for six years. I'm ready to take kind of a step back. And that's it from Lee. So not to be outdone, we'll get this out of the way right off the bat. We've been discussing the potential of maybe ending our show after TPF. And it was just because time-wise for both of us right now, we're putting a lot into pinball content and we enjoy doing it. It's just right now our schedules are so hectic. it started to become burdensome on personal matters. So the podcast, with it being the longest running at about 19 months, we decided it probably takes the most effort from the both of us as far as getting together on the same page and putting out that content. So unfortunately, we decided that we were going to end Special When Lit, and instead of waiting until after Texas Pinball Festival, with seeing everybody kind of that was getting out of the game leave, We just kind of thought maybe we should do that with them and go out right out into the sunset. Now, today's not our last episode. No, we still got two more after this, right? Right. So we're going to run it until February 4th. It'll be the last episode that we upload for the foreseeable future on Special When Lit. But what we wanted to do is we wanted to make sure that we had fun going out the last three episodes. We wanted to be up front and clear with everybody what our intentions were because we've had a really good time. We've had a lot of support. And as we get into probably that last episode, I think we can kind of discuss some of the highs and some of the lows of the podcast and discuss some of the people that contributed and talked to everybody that was vital in just supporting us and allowing us to kind of have this platform to talk about pinball on a week-to-week basis. We're not going away. We're still going to be doing our streaming. That's the important thing. So Special When Lit as a brand, we'll still have a lifestyle brand. Absolutely. Nothing says lifestyle brand like Special When Lit. But we will still be providing content in the ways of Twitch streaming. So you can catch us on Special When Lit Podcast on Twitch, or you can catch us WeStreamMondayNight for Flippin' Out Pinball. So we're still going to have a media presence, and we'll still have fun being able to interact and talk. And quite honestly, we do enjoy the streaming. The nice thing about the streaming is that there's not a whole lot of prep that goes into show notes and that sort of thing. And after we're done streaming. That's it. No editing. No uploading and that sort of thing. So it just kind of takes away some of the extra effort. But it still allows us to not only talk about pinball but play pinball, stay involved in chat, and talk to people not only via chat but live call-ins. It offers more of interaction. I think probably the unfortunate thing will be for those that know us or are only able to kind of hear what we're talking about solely on a podcast. And that's where it's kind of tough because you feel like you're not connecting with everybody that you once did. But who's to say that we don't upload these streams unedited in podcast form where people can still listen to us talking some general pinball and talking to chat? I don't know. Yeah, maybe we will. Yeah, I don't know. I'd be up for it. Yeah, we'll see where it goes. So thanks, but before we talk about it and its finality, yeah, you want to get into some pinball news? For old time's sake, we've got three episodes left. Yeah, let's do it. All right, let's do it.
Jersey Jack Pinball
company
Stern Pinballcompany
Spooky Pinballcompany
Guns N' Rosesgame
Stranger Things (Premium/LE)game
Rick and Mortygame
Jurassic Parkgame
Ghostbustersgame
Deadpoolgame
Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castlegame
Texas Pinball Festivalevent
Pinside Top 100organization
Data Eastcompany
Head to Head Pinballorganization
This Week in Pinballorganization
Supernovaorganization

high · Bill Webb calculates: '750 units at $250 profit...that's $187,500 they just gave away' as thank you for rapid sellout

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Guns N' Roses pinball machine strongly rumored as next Jersey Jack title; design by Eric Meunier; 15 tracks; announcement expected at Texas Pinball Festival

    medium · Ken Rudberg reports: 'Rumors continue to fly about the next Jersey Jack title...It's highly rumored to be Guns N' Roses' with supporting context of Slash's involvement and TPF timing

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Jurassic Park ranked #8 on Pinside Top 100 (late Jan 2025); considered one of best Stern games ever made; stronger shooting mechanics than Ghostbusters but thematic appeal varies by player

    high · Ken and Bill systematically rank multiple Stern titles; Bill rates Jurassic Park higher than Metallica, Iron Maiden, Deadpool, AC/DC but equal/below Ghostbusters

  • ?

    business_signal: Ken Cromwell maintains dual roles: co-host of Special When Lit and streaming with 'Flippin' Out Pinball' Monday nights, suggesting distribution network involvement

    medium · Ken mentions 'catch us on...Flippin' Out Pinball' streaming Monday nights; previously noted KB context places him at Flippin' Out distributor

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Bill Webb recommends owners hand-tighten loose internal components on Stranger Things Premium immediately upon delivery before extended play

    high · Bill advises: 'Go in and at least whatever you can see in sight, give it a little bit of tightening so that you don't have stuff floating around'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Robert Stone (meteorologist personality) gaining attention in competitive pinball scene; Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle featured in Open Championship final bank

    medium · Ken notes Stone 'catching some stock...rising' and observes his personality drawing attention to competitive pinball; tournament coverage segment mentions Nightmare Castle use

  • $

    market_signal: Bill Webb evaluates Stern games on ROI/resale value as collector, not just gameplay; suggests secondary market pricing influences purchase decisions for serious buyers

    medium · Bill states his ranking is based on 'price for the game, resale value...theme' and identifies self as 'buyer collector' with different priorities than casual players

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Extended discussion on topper design philosophy; motorized/animated toppers (Game of Thrones dragon, Whirlwind) versus purely aesthetic toppers; topper standardization suggested for limited editions

    medium · Ken and Bill debate merits of various toppers from Attack from Mars to Medieval Madness; discuss motorized interactivity vs visual appeal; suggest toppers should be bundled with LE games

    • 4:20
    Getting the news from around the industry in this week's Industry Buzz. Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your special win-lit Jersey Jack update. Rumors continue to fly about the next Jersey Jack title and when and where it will be announced. As has been discussed in the past, it's highly rumored to be Guns N' Roses, and I thought I'd go over a little bit about what led to this. As a lot of people know, Slash is a huge pinball fan. He actually approached Data East back in 1994 to produce the Guns N' Roses pinball machine. He helped design it and was heavily involved in the process of creating that machine. It includes a revolver and rose shooter knob, G and R-shaped ramps for the band's title, callouts from the band, and even includes an exclusive instrumental track called Ain't Goin' Down that wasn't released anywhere else. So the fact that he was heavily involved in that, and he's also said he's working on a new machine in an interview with the San Francisco Weekly magazine, and he said, quote, nothing has ever come out like it. There are rumors that it's going to have 15 Guns N' Roses tracks on it, and it's going to be designed by Eric Munier. And with Jack and Eric both slated to be at TPF, things are looking good for a potential announcement. Let's keep our fingers crossed. For Special and Lit, this is Ken Rudberg.
    5:41
    Stranger Things Premium comes to Twitch, and who wants a topper? Hey everyone, Craig here again, your Special and Lit Stern News Correspondent. Well, last Thursday, Stern finally gave pinheads, potential buyers, and enthusiasts what they've been asking for since their pre-Christmas launch announcement, the first full-extreme of a Stranger Things Premium Edition in a home lighting environment. And despite some minor technical glitches with the stream itself, the game with its new projection mapping technology looked pretty darn good all in all, which must bring a sigh of relief to existing buyers of the title who had purchased a Premium or LE virtually sight unseen. One thing is for sure, I don't think we've seen the last of this new innovative mapping technology in the world of pinball. Now currently sitting just out of the Pinside Top 100 at 1.11, expect Stranger Things to undoubtedly climb higher as more games get on location and into the hands of their lucky owners. Meanwhile, back in the Raptor paddock, Jurassic Park owners and reviewers continue to chalk up praise for what many are saying could be Stern's best title of all time and should be a lock for Game of the Year at the Twippies this year. Pinheads are now looking to Stern for a Jurassic Park topper and more Amber Shooter Knob news, hopefully to coincide with the upcoming Texas Pinball Festival at the end of March. We shall wait and see. That's all for this week. For Special One Lit, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    7:35
    second in Classic 1. Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle was used in the final bank for the Open Championship and held up well. The big news out of Spooky, of course, is that everyone who purchased a Rick and Morty, whether it be a Bloodsuckers edition or a Standard edition, is receiving an animated interactive topper with their game. Great move from Spooky as a thank you to their customers for their loyal support and their rapid sellout. I'll be catching you all next week with another update. See you then. So you've got big news on that one, Ken. You might have a new topper on the game that you're waiting for to show up. Yeah, for a second I thought Dr. John was doing a tournament coverage podcast update. I couldn't figure out what's happening. No, we're not a tournament podcast. He would never do such a thing. No, but he nicely spun it into spooky pinballs. Al Scouper Nightmare Castle being in the final bank, which was a nice little way to get that and bring that back to full circle. Spin that back into relevancy. I was like, whoa, we just went into competitive pinball on Special One Lit. It's only happened like maybe two other times before. But, yeah, so Alice Cooper, Nightmare Castle, awesome, and the tournament. So that guy, Robert Stone, who's the meteorologist, this guy's catching some – I guess his stock is rising is what I'm trying to say. Personality-wise, he's a little bit more boisterous. And from what I'm hearing, again, I don't follow the tournament scene, but I've seen posts with Mr. Stone and him kind of talking about the hardware in which he's won this past weekend on his news channel. It's just fun having another personality in the hobby, and maybe this draws more people into wanting to watch competitive pinball and get to know the personalities behind competitive pinball. Absolutely, man. Yeah, and that's going to be it for competitive pinball talk. But going back to what you said. New topper. Anyone that bought a Rick and Morty got a free topper as a present for ordering the first day. Out of nowhere. And I think that this is so amazing because, listen, this is the thing. They said there's going to be something special for the people that buy on day one. And when I think of that, I don't think of like a topper. Spooky could have very easily said to themselves, didn't think we were going to be doing 750 toppers. So let's scale this back to something else. like maybe we will give out a signed translate or something like that to everybody that did it. Keychain or something. Yeah, but they went all in with toppers, and I think it's pretty amazing that they did that. It was just, as Cousin Eddie would say on National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, just a real nice surprise, Clark. Dude, well, here, so I just did quick math on this. Dude, you don't think they would have charged $250 for an interactive topper, right? Okay. And that's cheap nowadays. You don't get a topper for $250. You don't. No. You can't even buy some of the Williams stuff for $250, in all honesty. No, toppers are out of control. But, you know, at 750 units, $187,500 they just gave away. Yeah. Good for them. Yeah. You figure at $250 profit, right, on each one of those, that's a ton of money. And I think they would have sold a ton of those. It's a straight loss right now. Yeah. They could have put that in on their accessories to where if you want to add the topper for $250 or for $299, because you figure what it's going to cost them 50 bucks to make the topper. I mean, even with the motor and plastic and stuff, if you're making 750 of them, probably shouldn't cost you more than like, I would assume. Let's go high to 100 bucks. So if you're selling them for 300 bucks, 299, it's just a very easy add-on before your order goes out. And so, yes, kudos to them for doing that. They could have very easily just backed away from that entire situation, but they honored it. and it was a surprise because nobody knew that was an intention in the first place. is all I thinking And selfishly like I excited because even though I not a topper guy I will take a free topper anytime I don care what it is because if it sucks I won even put it on the game But if it's got interactivity and it's got motorized, it looks like there's, like, a portal that I'm guessing will maybe spin in the back when you're going through portals, and I think that would be a really fun topper. So, yeah, nicely done, everybody at Spooky Pinball. I hope you see more of this additive kind of surprises versus deductive things, things getting removed out of games. I would love to see toppers become more of a standardized product in pinball when you buy a very limited game. Yeah, I think we talked about it too. If you're going to have a limited edition game and a topper is one of those things that comes with your limited edition game, make it feel like it's special. When you buy a Monster Bash, you get the topper. It's not interactive, but you know what? You get something cool with it, right? Yeah, right. It's interactive in the way of lighting, but it's not motorized. It's no Attack from Mars topper. Right. Okay. All right. That's par for the course in my eyes for toppers at this point. Sure. Or even the Medieval Madness topper, dude. That thing looks sick as a... Going all the way back, though, I mean, even something... And when you look at the terms of complexity of toppers, the Whirlwind topper isn't anything groundbreaking as far as technology, but it's effective and it's one of the more sought-after toppers in pinball. It gives you kind of a fifth dimension or fourth dimension element where you're feeling something with playing a game. Whitewater? I was going to say Whitewater is going to be my next thing. I love the Whitewater topper when you get an original one that's working. It's just it looks so retro. It reminds me of like an old school, like old style kind of beer sign that you would have seen back in like the mid-'80s or early-'80s, late-'70s. Oh, yeah. Where, I mean, that was like cutting edge stuff. Even Getaway did with the stupid siren on top. Yeah, right. Getaway has the siren. I'm just trying to think of other toppers. I remember when I had Twilight Zone, I went out and I bought this Pyramid mod, and it was just kind of like a Pyramid with an eye on the top, like an Illuminati. And that was pretty cool because it was interactive, and it just went on top of the machine. And at the time, I thought it was super expensive. I think it was like $275, but that thing was sculpted and molded, and it was like a solid freaking topper, and I enjoyed it. Another topper that I've had on a game that didn't do anything, but I thought it really looked nice on top of the machine was the, I had a gold Eagle on top of judge dread. Yeah. And I thought that was a really cool topper as far as other toppers and pinball. Some of them I do like, like the, the ACDC topper that you see with the train, I think is really, really cool looking topper. Even though, again, that's not anything that's three dimensional really, or motorized, but it's like layers of Plexi and the way that they integrated that looked really, really well are really, really good. The kiss sign, the kiss sign is cool. It's, it's, it's basic, but it looks impressive. It looks good. It hammers it home for the theme. Walking Dead.
    14:13
    I disagree on the Ghostbusters. I don't like that Ghostbusters topper. Well, no one's ever accused you of good taste. No, this is true. No, I'm kidding. The Ghostbusters topper is one of the... It's just, it does not call to me. It disappoints me that that was the Ghostbusters topper. I'm sorry. It's just that it's what it is. Yes. I know it's all plastic, dude, and it was kind of overpriced, and I get that part. Yeah. But I don't know, man. I still think it looked cool. From Stern toppers, though, I do like the Walking Dead topper, the aquarium with the heads in there. That looks really cool. The Game of Thrones topper with the dragon is cool because it's kind of motorized. But some people will complain that it's a little repetitive since you've got the dragon on the play field and whatnot. But it's a nice topper. Star Wars topper does not call to me whatsoever. I would never, if that topper was like $400 or $500, I wouldn't buy it. It's just because it doesn't call to me. Visually, it doesn't really do anything for me. Like the Black Knight Sword of Rage topper, that looks like a cool topper, but where is that topper? I have not seen that topper other than – what do we see there? I want to see the Jurassic Park topper now. Yeah, so the Jurassic Park topper is cool. And actually, that's a good segue, Bill, because as we listen to Craig Bobby, he's talking about Jurassic Park pinball. He's looking, you know, where is this topper? And before I ask you what you'd like to see out of a Jurassic Park topper, let me ask you if you think that – Because you've got a pretty good background in pinball. You've played and owned a lot of games.
    15:35
    A few. When you consider Stern Pinball as a company and all the titles that they've put out, do you consider Jurassic Park to be in contention of being the best Stern Pinball machine of all time for Stern?
    15:49
    That's a pretty heavy title to throw on there, man. I think it's a great game, dude. It's surprising how high it is still rated after the next two games have come out from Stern. I think it's still in the top five as of last week.
    16:04
    Let me change that. I think it's a great game. Let me ask you, how many pins can you name comfortably that you think are better than Jurassic Park in the Stern Pinball Library? I love Ghostbusters. And I know, dude, there's people that are going to hate Sendin' Hey, Mail. Yes, you will get ruined for that. But I like Ghostbusters a lot, too. Yeah, you know.
    16:26
    I think Jurassic Park's a better shooting game than Ghostbusters is, though. Yeah, but theme-wise and integration-wise, I love how Ghostbusters was done. The flipper thing, yeah, that kind of sucks, too. But I don't know, man.
    16:40
    I don't think there's another game that you really can throw on top of that, in all honesty. Let's have some fun here for a second. We normally don't do this, but, I mean, we only have three shows left, so maybe we can think outside of the box in case we ever come back and do this show again. I'm going to go to the Pinside Top 100, and I'm just going to go down and mention some Sterns, and you tell me if they are better than Jurassic Park, equal with Jurassic Park, or not as good as Jurassic Park in your eyes. Go down what? First 25 games? Yeah, we're not going to go crazy. The first game that shows up. Number four, Jurassic Park. Is actually Iron Maiden at tie for number six. No. Legacy of the Beast from Stern Pinball. Is that higher, lower, or on par? And higher meaning better, lower meaning not as good. I think it's lower than Jurassic Park. So Iron Maiden would be lower. Number eight right now is Jurassic Park. Number nine on pin side right now, and we are in the end of January of 2020, for those of you that are looking for dates, Metallica pinball, which arguably was the best stern pinball of all time when that had come out. Better, worse, or should I say higher, lower, or on par with Jurassic Park? Lower. I would also say lower. Deadpool. It's not that it's a bad game. I'm just listening. No, no, no. I'm not saying none of these games are good or awesome or bad, but I'm saying you have to rank. It's like a price is right.
    18:01
    Here, my opinion on all these games is... Dude, your eyes are very glassy right now. Thank you. Are you yawning? No, things are legal in the state now. Yeah, right. If that was the case. No. Yeah. Honestly, my eye's water. Okay.
    18:14
    What was I going to say? My opinion on all these, dude, is based on price for the game, resale value of the game. I'm just going on. Listen, I'm going. Okay, so you're looking at it differently. And theme for me. Okay, so you're looking at it from like a buyer collector. Return on investment. All different things. All that kind of thing.
    18:33
    Okay. You got that look in your eye right now, by the way. I've seen that look. I don't know where that look is right now, but we'll go back to this. So you're just looking at like the total picture. Total picture for me, not as a hobby, not as the entire hobby, but for me as a pinball purchaser. Sure, I can't ask you to speak for the entire pinball hobbyist population. Perfect. Right. So you've got Iron Maiden lower than Jurassic Park. Metallica lower than Jurassic Park. How about Deadpool? Lower. Lower, okay. How about ACDC?
    19:10
    It's close, but I'll go lower. ACDC is lower. As we keep going down the list, the Simpsons Pinball Party from 2003. That one I didn't call to me as much. I didn't call to me either, man. The Simpsons. Maybe because I'm not a big Simpsons fan, but that was a miss. How about The Walking Dead? I said lower on that one. Okay. Well, I'm sorry. I'm going down the list. The Walking Dead right now is at 23.
    19:34
    Stern, Batman 66 at 25. Lower. Yeah. So, yeah, it's probably the best game from Stern. Okay. Do you feel better now? No. A little bit. No, I just, I was real curious. That's that look right there. Now you know why. I love it. We can be cranky bastards with each other. We only got to survive three more episodes. But it's an interesting thought because when you think, well, no, Jurassic Park is an awesome game, and it's probably game of the year, right, for 2019. But there's no way it's the best Stern of all time. Now, again, most of these games that we went by are current-day Sterns. Last couple of years, yeah. When you think back on prior Stern games, going back, even Ripley's Believe It or Not is a game that's on your want list. Hit list, yeah. um you know maybe that becomes something that that plays but i think that it wouldn't be out of line to to potentially consider jurassic park as the best stern pinball game of all time except you said ghostbusters is kind of up there for you where it might be at the same level and you own both of these games you own jurassic park pro i do and you own a ghostbusters correct love them both um you know and honestly man there were days where you know jurassic park was sitting there and I was like, dude, I've got to play Ghostbusters. And then vice versa.
    20:44
    And then Wonka showed up and my son showed up. So, you know, now nothing gets played. Well, that's a lie, dude. I actually brought my son downstairs yesterday, dude, threw him on top of Willy Wonka, dude, and we threw down a game. Oh, you know where I'm going to go with this, right? Yeah, I threw my son on top of $300 in visit glass. He didn't take the glass off and had him playing in the play field. No, no, no. Like Madeline did on that. No, no, no. All right. No, did you see the video I posted on Facebook, or my wife posted on Facebook today, though, or no? No, I didn't see it. Okay. So right now Bill's showing me a video of his daughter. How old was your daughter when that was taken? About a year and a half. So she's a year and a half old, and she is up next to the getaway, and she's on the front corner, and she's reaching up over her head to hit the right flipper button, and she's only hearing the sound of the flipper, but she's so captivated by the sound of the... It revs up a motor. Yeah. So, yeah, it's revving up the motor every time she's hitting it, and she's getting that feedback. Yeah. It keeps hitting it. It's a cause and effect, man. The feedback is cool. It jumps over to another machine. It's not making noise, and she's like, well, this game's kind of sick. No, it's kind of crazy, man. It's good. These kids grow up. Yeah, dude, I threw him on top of that game with Invisiglass. Who cares? He loved it. Yeah. I still have my Christmas tree up because, dude, he's fascinated by watching the lights. Yeah. It's terrible. I just put all of my Christmas stuff in storage today, but it's been down for a couple weeks. But, yeah, when the kids are younger, you've got to keep that stuff up.
    22:12
    Yes, Jurassic Park is an awesome game. I think literally right behind Ghostbusters, and I know it's just my thing. I'd like to own a Walking Dead at some point, too, and an Aerosmith. I was really big, and I still am really big, on Deadpool Premium. I love that game. And for me, from Stern games that have come out as of late, I think Deadpool and Jurassic Park are the two that really stand out to me. And I think of the two if I had to pick Jurassic Park or Deadpool where it would be close I think I would go with Jurassic Park And that would be a real hard They right on the same kind of level for um but i could screw you right up right now on this you ready for this yeah go for it dude your daughter sitting next to you and there's a jurassic park and a deadpool which one are you taking um well like my daughter i yeah that would take my daughter i would leave the pins no dude what i meant was sydney's right next to you okay you know the one that loves deadpool because she can get multiball oh yeah yeah dude you'd be done on that yeah no that well that's true i'm but yeah so factoring in as a family man i would go with the deadpool but selfishly for myself i would go for the jurassic park let's analyze this thinking about my family here i'm going to choose that park right but it makes sense i used to consider my family for purchases but the thing is like they don't stay involved in these games like the initial um enjoyment wears off very quickly for everybody in my family so i've learned now not to buy pins for them just buying for me because i'm the one that will ultimately be stuck with them um what's that you're the one that gets stuck moving them too yeah it's a lot easier to move them nowadays but what else oh so going back to stern pinball though so stranger things is their newest release too hard for me to figure out where that stands and all this right now um did you get a chance to see the premium stream uh streamed on dead flip pinball streaming from Stern earlier last week. I really just got to see it in person. Yeah, so the big debate with everybody was that it was the effectiveness of the projector that projects from underneath the apron and goes out on the ramps and the drop targets and the spinners and whatnot. So the worry was that Consumer Electronics Show, we talked about this last week, it just didn't fare well in the lighting conditions and there wasn't really anything done to kind of counterbalance that. So it didn't look the best, at least on what I saw on social media and from initial feedback. That being said, I thought the stream, for the most part, went really well. And the game looked good. I thought the projector performed well. And I think that was not a swing and a miss for Stern. I think it was vital that they were able to do that. And we talked about the importance of that stream, right? Because if that goes poorly or that just doesn't show itself. Well, I think it initially could affect sales. But you know what, dude? I think long term, I don't think it would. Because once, here, as pinball collectors, you know, your buddy Tony gets a pinball machine that you're thinking about getting, you know, gets Stranger Things with the projector. You're going to be able to see it, dude. So if it's good, man, he's going to be like, okay, well, maybe I need to get this game too. So, you know, I think initially it could impact it if it wasn't the greatest stream, but I don't think it was a bad stream on last week. No, I don't think it was a bad stream either. I thought it was a good stream play-wise. There was a little hiccup where the ball got caught after the Demogorgon was hit when it wasn't ejecting out of the left. Now, I've had that same issue with my game. And for those of you that were wondering, I don't know what happened with that particular game because they took the cameras off the play field. Brian Eddy went in and he got that fixed in a few minutes. And they never really explained, at least I don't remember them explaining what had happened. What had happened with my game was that the one-way gates, There's a couple gates back there, but the outermost one-way gate had come off its hinge, and it was getting balls hung up there, where sometimes if it was ejected with enough force, because of the way that the ramp or the gate was rattling, it would get through, but other times it would just get stuck and it would never come out. And it didn't matter what a ball search would do. After a certain amount of time of ball searches, it would just end your ball, and then you could shoot another ball in there and you'd have two stuck in there. So the remedy for me was to go in, get to take off a plastic or two, and you had to go in and at least for me, I took the wire, one-way wire gate, and I pried it apart a little bit more than it normally was to kind of force it to kind of stay in place. I haven't had an issue since. I will say this, though, and just being totally clear and as honest I can be regarding the feedback, I did notice when I was going back behind there that there were a lot of things that were loose in regards to screws, hex posts, and whatnot. So if you have a game, and I don't really think to do this sometimes because for the most part, Stern Pimpleball games have been trouble-free for me right out of the box. On this one, I noticed that things shook loose, whether it was on shipping or whatever. Go in and at least whatever you can see in sight, give it a little bit of tightening so that you don't have stuff floating around inside your play field, underneath your play field, this, that, and the other thing. Yeah, that could have been a fluke. Hopefully it was. It happens. But, I mean, that was the only issue that I've had with the game so far was that gate, and I was able to kind of rectify that situation.
    27:29
    See, my only issue with Stranger Things is just that. Stranger Things. The theme, right? Yeah. Well, you've got to watch it, man. I know. Because you know what's going to happen? I'm going to get Rick and Morty here sometime. Listen, that happens every time, dude. Dude, you buy a game, and it's like, dude, I don't know if I'm sold on this theme. And then, dude, what happens like a year or two later? It's like, damn, dude, I kind of need to get that game. Yeah. So, you know, dude, this is just a precursor to two years down the road. So you'll own a Stranger Things in 2022.
    27:56
    Right. Hey, man. Projector or no projector? Listen, there's a lot of things I've said in this hobby that we would never do and, you know, have changed. Jersey Jack Pinball. You had Ken Rudberg over there talking about a little bit of history between Slash from Guns N' Roses and him being a pinball enthusiast and him being instrumental, no pun intended, in getting these games up and running. So the speculation with Jersey Jack Pinball. supposedly being on a Guns N' Roses pinball machine and with Slash recently saying that, hey, I'm involved in a pinball machine, kind of putting two and two together here. And so Ken's thinking, with Texas Pinball Festival around the corner, that we might see a reveal there. Now, let me ask you this question, because when we think about TPF, we have Deep Root, who is, you know, I'm sure anxiously awaiting to kind of show off their final goods over there at TPF. and we have do we have any other reveals that we know of for sure like i didn't we said i think american pinball said joe joe balser said that they would have a game of tpf right so we anticipate seeing maybe uh hot wheels so does jersey jack you're gonna put hot wheels up against raza hot wheels and raza okay okay assuming that hot wheels is a correct rumor because assuming this I know no way, one way or the other. No, we don't. Dude, it could be the Jackson 5. Constitution Hall, 1776, for all we know. Yes. I get your point. You're going with some holidays there? Holiday themes? No, man. I'm just spouting off crap. But does it make sense, right? I mean, if I'm Jersey Jack, go to MGC. Because at MGC, isn't that where they revealed Wonka, right? At MGC. Well, what has history taught us? Let's go down that road. Wait, where was Wonka revealed? MGC. It was MGC. Where was Black Knight kind of shown for the first time? Yeah, I would probably go to MGC. It sounds like Jersey Jack's got a relation. Because beforehand, Dialed In was at Expo for the first time. I think Pirates was there, too. It was at Expo. So these local reveals seem like they'd be beneficial. And there's no reason to have three games go to TPF. Now, if I'm Ed Van Der Veen or if I'm going to TPF, I'm like, absolutely, there's a reason to have three reveals. because this is what is going to draw people to the show. But, I mean, when you look at it from a manufacturer standpoint, if you know that there's a good possibility that two games are going to be revealed, why share the spotlight when you can, if a show is a priority for a reveal, why don't you just grab your own show and run with it? But what does it matter what happens at TPF for these companies? No, I guess you're right.
    30:32
    Here's what I think, dude. If I'm like J.J.P. or Stern, yeah, dude, whoever brings stuff to Texas, whatever, You know, what's always the most remembered game? The last game announced. Doesn't matter. You're right. You know? Yep.
    30:47
    So, yeah, if I'm like these guys, I'd push it to MGC. I would go MGC. And selfishly, I mean, you hear that, well, these manufacturers don't need pinball shows to reveal these games. And I get it. But I kind of almost think that they owe it to the pinball enthusiasts that goes to these shows to give them something to be excited about. But does Stern care about drawing a buzz in the pinball community? Or do they care about drawing buzz globally to a different audience? Right. CES. Sure. Stuff like that. I can see both sides. I'm just saying as somebody that, as a pinball enthusiast, I want to know that the manufacturer is not catering to me, but they're at least trying to throw me a bone and keep me entertained and reward me for my loyalty by saying, hey, we're going to give you the first look at this game at this show. That's just the way that I look at it. Dude, but you're going to find one to play. It doesn't matter if it got revealed in Texas or Milwaukee. It doesn't matter. No, I know you're going to find a way to play it. I'm just saying that it's nice to be able to be recognized as supportive. So, hey, this is what we want to do for you. I mean, that's kind of where I'm going with that. I would like to see that. They would love to support you. They would love to ship you a brand new game. So is that their support? Well, that's called the transaction, though. Listen. Nobody's supporting us by sending us a game. That's never happened, ever. Hey, let's see what happens. Except flipping out pinball, but those get shipped back. Let's see what happens. So in theory, in the next, what is it, 60 days, we're going to roughly hear about four different games getting dropped, right? In theory, for purchase. Let's see how many I'm shipping in 90 days. Yeah, that's the other thing, too.
    32:18
    I would expect Rick and Morty should be shipping soon. I wasn't counting those. That's already been announced. I'm saying there's four that are potentially running out. You've got Hot Wheels, Raza, Guns N' Roses, maybe. Yeah, and whatever Stern's next title is. Yeah, Stern's probably got another one coming out in two days. Like they're always pumping out the games, but nobody's really flipped Rick and Morty. That's been able to really speak of it publicly and how it's shot yet. So, I mean, the only thing we can do is, as Craig Bobby would say, is we have to wait and see what happens at TPF. And unfortunately, we're not going to go. But again, we'll be covered on our special when lit podcast streaming channel. So if you want to follow that and if you just want to stay connected with us as we want to stay connected with you, go to twitch.tv special when lit podcast that's all one word and just follow the channel because every time we go live you can kind of jump in the chat and give us a call we can talk on the phone like we're buds and maintain that relationship it'll be a good time what else is going on man that's kind of it for pinball news anything that's on your mind no show notes today it's been a busy day so yesterday I had to go with the wife and the mother-in-law to go see one of my father-in-law's friends uh he had some things that he wanted to discuss with us and for the longest time i was hearing oh you know um this guy's got a couple pinball machine old pinball machines in his basement dude forever today dude i've been thinking like some old em nonsense you know whatever so we go there you know it finally like 10 years later i finally see the set games and dude he's got a uh star wars 2000 pin okay yeah which i'm like wow that's kind of incredible and then he's all proud of it. He's like, I bought this game like 20 years ago for $4,500.
    34:05
    So I guess it like essentially a home use only Star Wars The Star Wars for Yeah So like when it just came out Yeah Pinball 2000 Yeah pinball 2000 that sounds about right it probably 4500 i get one i believe that yeah me too literally sitting right next to it i'm like well what about this game it's a tales of the arabian knights he's all proud of star wars so i'm like dude what about you know i got this crappy tales of the arabian friggin knights over here yeah and i'm like that's awesome he's like oh dude i bought this one for like 2200 um you know in my head i'm just saying mother you know you gotta be 2200 for 2200 wow you know like 20 years ago 22 something like that yeah um and dude he's like you know but there's an error it doesn't shoot the balls blah blah blah blah i'm like he'd turn it on and it says you know factory settings restored he looked at me all crazy he's like how did you know that and i'm like i might know pinball yeah so we'll see i was talking to him uh either i'm gonna fix it or i'm gonna buy it one of the two so i'm hopefully gonna buy it i would just buy it and fix it. I mean, at $2,200,
    35:06
    I don't know. I mean, you don't want to take advantage of the guy. I told him what they were roughly worth. I'm not about to... You told him they were like $32,000, $33,000 if fully shopped. I told him because of inflation, it's like $2,800. Exactly. No, but I told him, I go, listen, you bought a great game here. I'm liking Star Wars, and I hate to say this, it didn't hold its value. But guess what? There could be somebody on the show like, hey, whatever. So we'll see. Maybe we'll be in Tales of the Arabian Nights. And it was in nice shape. I mean, obviously it had to be shopped, right? Dude, the flipper rubbers were all cracked off of it, but the shooter lane looked beautiful. Yeah. See, if the shooter lane looks good on those older pins, everything else, like that layer of soot that's on there, almost preserves the play field. I've had that where it's like you clean that off and it's pristine underneath, which is nice. Dude, there can't be a thousand plays since he brought this thing home on it. He's not a pinball guy. He just bought it to throw in his rec room. Sounds like a Baywatch thread. only 712 plays since 1996 remember that do you remember that pin side threat all right never mind i'm immaculate never mind never mind oh yeah whatever the guy with the bay watch that was selling it and it was only a certain amount of it was huo like for a certain amount of time but it's been on route for like six years massive coin burn coin burn he takes the picture of it and it's on no legs just on cardboard in the middle like a street or a driveway and it was a very famous pin side threat that's back in the day where i used to spend a lot more time on pin side oh yeah i don't know what the cool hip threads are on pin side anymore i still frequent but so you could potentially get this tails from the arabian knights i'm not robbing him dude if i buy it no i know you're not gonna rob him i kind of told him i'm like dude listen what's what town is this in and what's this guy's first and last name uh i will tell you off camera off camera no but you know what i mean what do you think would be because this is the way that i'm looking at it like what do you think of fair prices for a tails like between six and seven for a nice one somewhere in there sure i don't know the prices on tails as much because i've never really you're not in the market for tails yeah uh well i know steve beattie recently got a tails let's say let's say that tails of the arabian nights came in at 6500 in good conscience i couldn't offer 6500 because obviously there's things that i'm gonna have to do i'm gonna take the risk and that sort of thing dude i'm gonna honestly i'll tell him listen this is my this is what i'd offer you and here's the reason why right your cpu is probably shot you know that's like 350 for immediately devalue all the game as much as you can well explain to him why i'm doing it and say listen for this game to be worth this money you know dude you need to shop it all the coils sleaze blah blah blah plus your time dude he's a businessman so he'll get it um or you can have some weirdos coming into your house and jack your your floors up yeah you know whatever but uh you know the moral of the story wasn't to talk about the pricing of the game as much to me But it was really rare or weird to be on the flip side of seeing something like that. You know, you hear these, you know, stories of the wild pony. You know, I found it in this guy's basement and he just wanted 500 bucks or, you know, it's a medieval madness. And, you know, it's been sitting here 20 years. Get it out of here. Yeah. You know, it's just weird to finally be a part of one of those stories where somebody did not know what they had. It's like your barn find. Exactly. Right. I've got somebody locally that she goes in and she's like a personal, like a decorator. And I built like a nice rapport with her. And on occasion, she'll come across a pinball machine or an arcade game. And she'll be like, hey, you interested? She'll take pictures. And I never want to say no because normally these are people that are, you know, redoing a game room or they're moving and they need to get stuff out. And at that point, it's like I'm helping them out by getting rid of something that's heavy. But I never want to take advantage of the situation either. but just like you said like it's never been hey there's there's this big bang bar down in the basement that uh needs to be moved or this cactus jacks it's always like the nicest game that i think i pulled out was that evil kenevil that was in nice shape that our buddy tom has now and um that was probably the nicest kind of barn find that she's shown me but you know it's nice to have a connection like that uh and you know what i also do and this is kind of like a little tip and this has worked out for me um one if you ever have somebody that comes over to service anything at your house like a washer dryer heater a water heater things like that talk to those guys and and give them a card or contact information and be like hey listen if you're if you're ever on in a place where you see a game that's sitting and the owner's looking to get rid of it if you refer them to me and i buy it i'll just throw you like 100 bucks i've gotten leads on that and uh What was the other thing I was going to say? Oh, just recently, I've got a friend that owns a moving company. And about every two or three weeks, he's like, yeah, they're moving. They need to get rid of this. And a lot of the stuff I pass on, but I try to find a buyer for. But if you network, I mean, you can find these kind of diamonds in the rough. It's not hard. It's like the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Yeah. So, I mean, it's a numbers game. The worst that can happen is no. I'm not one that Pepper wants it, a pinball collector wanted for my personal collection because then I'm going to take it and wipe it down and flip it for twice what I bought it for. That doesn't call to me to do that, but I see a lot of people that I know personally that are successful with doing stuff like that, and it is what it is. No, you know what? I mean, that's going to happen, though, dude, but at least those games are getting put back in the wild.
    40:26
    Granted, is somebody making money on them? Absolutely. But at the same token, dude, with what people are willing to pay for them, when people are willing to pay that kind of money for a game, Let's take Fishtails. You found a Fishtails, hooked me up with a Fishtails. You made some money. I bought the game. I was happy. I flipped it and lost some money, but that game didn't wind up in the trash or become underappreciated.
    40:51
    That's the thing about charging some of these higher prices on these titles. It's to ensure their survivability. That was one of those few occasions where I had traded somebody a custom arcade game for a pinball machine. And I'm trying to remember, I think I included cash on my side. I must have, because it wouldn't have made sense for a straight-up trade. Did I or no? I don't think it did, dude. It was a real small man. But that game wasn't pristine. It had nice cabinet artwork, and it did need some work. And that game never made it here. I think that went right to your house, right? It did. I put a lot of time into that game. Yeah, yeah. So that was not like a diamond in the rough. Because you saw it after I did it. Yeah, it looked really good. This isn't the same game. Yeah. But you saw Demoman when I was done, dude. Yeah, your Demoman. But you had two, and that one was beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. You know, and maybe now is a good time to talk about this. As myself and Bill, we try to free up some time personally. We're able to invest time in other things, and we're going to come back. We talked about, when we first met, we talked about doing a homebrew game, and we had talked about different themes that we thought would work well in a homebrew. And Bill came up with a theme that he presented to me, and I was like, man, this is a slam dunk. And we've talked about, we've been vague about it intentionally because it's not going to be fun if we tell everybody what we're going to do. But I think that we'll have time to kind of start pursuing this now, which is going to be fun. And this kind of is going to be great, too, because I've talked about where I wanted to kind of get into some more video and documentary-type stuff. I'd love to start a little documentary and just kind of track our progress on the progression and hopefully to completion of the homebrew pin and then one day maybe have like a nice little 22-minute roundup of how we went from point A to point B and bring that game around to the shows. Absolutely. And I can tell you when that's going to start, dude. That project will be starting sometime in March. Yeah, and March when the weather swings, I get back on Cherry Atomic too. So that's a priority for me. I need to get that done for Expo 2020. But, I mean, it's funny because, like, we free up some time and then we kind of invest it somewhere else. But it's like there's not any consistency needed. It's kind of on our own time at that point. And that's kind of – it's a little more loose. So for like the next month, once we stop the podcast, dude, I'm going to be focusing on getting some stuff done around the house that I've been getting yelled at for.
    43:04
    And then right after that, dude, I have to do said laundry room, you know, bartering chip for getting another pinball machine not too long ago.
    43:11
    And when I start spraying trim in the garage for that said project, that's when the cabinet's going to get rolled back out and sprayed. So in March, if you start seeing pictures of a cabinet getting sprayed and stuff, because we already have a cabinet. That we've had for a couple years. Well, you had built that cabinet. I had built, yes. Yeah. Said cabinet. And it's nice. It's been sitting. It's been like a, it's just been like an empty bowl waiting for the cereal all this time. So it's ready to go. And I feel bad, dude, because you'll see people locally looking for an empty pinball cabinet. And I'm just like. You're like, I got one right here. Sitting right here, man. Never had nothing in it. It's pretty and ready to go. Spoken for. I know. Spoken for. So that'll be good. But I feel bad. Don't feel bad. Listen, I don't taunt people and start posting pictures of a perfect pinball cabinet that needs paint that's brand new and not a scratch on it. But whatever. What are you going to do? So I wanted to say one quick thing before we wrap up this episode. We want to let you guys take part in the last couple weeks here. If you wanted to call into our phone line and leave us a message and you want to have anything played on the air, we're just going to do it. The number is air code 630-283-2888. Leave a voicemail and let us know that you want to air it on special and lit. You kind of celebrate these last few weeks with us together, and it'll be just kind of fun. We're still going to continue to cover our pinball news. And then on the last episode, we'll formally say our goodbyes and our thank yous and wrap it up. But for now, we're still alive and kicking before we fade to black on February 4th. I want to thank LearnMods.com. You know, Rob and Kim, they've been very supportive of the show, and we're going to continue our friendship, obviously, between us. But, I mean, Rob and Kim as well, if you're looking for custom quality playfield mods and lighting for your pinball machine, You can visit L-E-R-M-O-D-S. That's Lermods.com today. And we still have that coupon code. It's SWL10. And that's for 10% off your online order of $50 or more. So listen, take advantage of that while you still can. That's still good for a couple weeks, two, three weeks. I'm thinking about that, too. I better place my order now. Yeah, and check what they've got. It's really fun. But, Bill, one down and two more to go here as we wrap up Special Win Lit. It's been a wonderful ride, and I'm really looking forward to the next two weeks, man. Oh, yeah, definitely. Look forward to a little break, too, man. Yeah. We've had a long run. Exactly. A little vacation. It'll be our first kind of real break. Yeah. So, good times. Good times. For Bill Webb, I'm Ken Cromwell. Everybody have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.