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Episode 198: NYCPC (2019) recap

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·40m 59s·held·May 22, 2019
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

NYCPC 2019 recap featuring tournament org, top players, and designer insights.

Summary

Jeff Teolis hosts coverage of the 2019 New York City Pinball Championship (NYCPC), a major tournament organized by Never Beef Productions. The episode features interviews with venue host Adam Schwartz, tournament organizer Greg Pavarelli, Stern coder Tim Sexton (who worked on Black Knight Sword of Rage), competitive players including Keith Elwin and Raymond Davidson, and designers Bowen Kerins (Spooky) and Steven Bowden (Deep Root). Key themes include tournament logistics, game design philosophy balancing accessibility and depth, the importance of code updates, and the growing quality of pinball competition infrastructure in NYC.

Key Claims

  • Adam Schwartz's Tribeca collection includes 14 machines (9 modern games, 5 classics including EMs) that took 2.5 years to assemble

    high confidence · Adam Schwartz in interview with Jeff Teolis at VIP pre-event

  • Tim Sexton is the lead coder on Black Knight Sword of Rage for Stern and is working toward version 1.0 release with more planned features

    high confidence · Tim Sexton interview at NYCPC

  • Never Beef Productions is running NYCPC 2019 with multiple tournament divisions (main, classics, women's championship, B division) at the Skyline Hotel

    high confidence · Jeff Teolis opening and Greg Pavarelli interview

  • IFPA app (created by Ed Jardina) will soon include women's rankings, youth rankings, and state/national championship series

    high confidence · Ed Jardina interview at NYCPC

  • New York City had limited major pinball tournaments before Never Beef's inaugural NYCPC in 2018, mostly limited to Sunshine league play and team leagues

    medium confidence · Greg Pavarelli in interview discussing tournament history

  • Keith Elwin is semi-retired from competitive play due to heavy workload at Stern and will not attend IFPA 16 World Championships in Italy

    high confidence · Keith Elwin interview with Jeff Teolis

  • Raymond Davidson is defending his World Championship title and will compete at IFPA 16 in Milan

    high confidence · Raymond Davidson interview

  • A CNE PC (Canadian National Exposition Pinball Championship) is being announced for Toronto in August with five tournaments (three classics, main, and women's)

    high confidence · Megan Sprague announcement at NYCPC

  • Bowen Kerins at Spooky and Steven Bowden at Deep Root are both working on upcoming games with emphasis on balancing accessibility and depth

    high confidence · Designer interviews with Bowen Kerins and Steven Bowden

Notable Quotes

  • “What's unique about New York City is unlike most towns or areas, we don't really have basements here. collections are often very limited because space is such a premium”

    Adam Schwartz @ early in interview — Explains why NYC has fewer collector venues despite being pinball hub; context for appreciating shared spaces

  • “you've got to get the second dollar, isn't it?”

    Jeff Teolis @ designer roundtable — Captures key design philosophy: converting casual players into repeat players through accessible entry points

  • “The player plays your game for the very first time and they're not happy with how they played, they aren't coming back at all.”

    Steven Bowden @ designer discussion — Core design principle about first-play experience and retention

  • “I love the way pinball is moving in the last few years. With Stern, we've seen Zach and Keith and Tim Sexton... and I'm so excited that Bowen is at Spooky. Steve, you at Deeper, because you have been playing for so long that you understand what the players are looking for”

    Jeff Teolis @ designer roundtable — Industry recognition of player-designers improving game quality across manufacturers

  • “It's a difficult balance... One of my... The player plays your game for the very first time and they're not happy with how they played, they aren't coming back at all.”

    Steven Bowden @ design philosophy segment — Emphasizes importance of initial player experience in game design

  • “Never Beef pulled this off. It really feels like Papa Nostalgic, New York City. Like what Epstein did was so amazing for the hobby, and these guys are picking up right where he left off.”

    Greg Pavarelli @ tournament discussion — Context linking Never Beef's NYCPC to Papa legacy and pinball tournament history

  • “I prefer it down here for a couple of reasons... Because we're on the level four, you can go outside and have that view. You don't have to mess around with those janky old elevators.”

    Jeff Teolis (joking with Levy Naiman) — Humor about practical improvements in new venue setup

Entities

Jeff TeolispersonAdam SchwartzpersonGreg PavarellipersonNever Beef ProductionsorganizationTim SextonpersonBlack Knight Sword of RagegameKatie RozierpersonLevy NaimanpersonRaymond Davidson

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: NYCPC 2019 shows significant growth from inaugural 2018 event: move to larger Skyline Hotel ballroom (2x+ previous space), addition of free-play area, multiple tournament divisions (main, classics, women's memorial, B-division), and organized pre-event at collector venue

    high · Levy Naiman and Greg Pavarelli discussing venue upgrade from penthouse to ballroom; tournament structure expansion; 56 players at pre-event alone

  • ?

    community_signal: Never Beef's NYCPC is filling a major gap in NYC competitive pinball infrastructure that existed since Papa Nostalgic era; explicitly positioned as spiritual successor to historic Papa tournaments

    high · Greg Pavarelli: 'Really wasn't a lot of pinball competitions other than what you do at Sunshine on Wednesdays... since early Papa days'; characterized Never Beef effort as 'picking up right where [Papa's founder] Epstein left off'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Multiple top competitive players transitioning to game design roles: Tim Sexton (Stern coder), Bowen Kerins (Spooky designer), Steven Bowden (Deep Root designer), Keith Elwin (Stern employee). Creates expectation that designers will better understand player preferences

    high · Jeff Teolis: 'With Stern we've seen Zach and Keith and Tim Sexton... I'm so excited that Bowen is at Spooky... because you have been playing for so long that you understand what the players are looking for'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Deep conversation between Steven Bowden and Bowen Kerins about designing games with accessible entry points for novice players that reveal complexity for repeat play. Emphasis on first-play experience as critical to retention

    high · Steven Bowden: 'The player plays your game for the very first time and they're not happy with how they played, they aren't coming back at all.' Discussion of layering mechanics and sensory feedback (lights, sound, display) to make simple rulesets satisfying

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.123

0:00
it's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teolis you can find our group on facebook we're also on twitter at pinball profile email us pinball profile at gmail.com and please subscribe on either itunes stitcher or google play just got back from new york city what a great time at the nyc pc second year event put on by never beef productions a main tournament a classics tournament, the Dahlia Rowan Memorial Women's Championship, the B Division champs, some free play action at the Skyline Hotel, and a pre-tournament in Tribeca at a beautiful collection. This VIP New York City Pinball Championship pre-event is not possible unless you have a place to play, and boy, do we have a place to play today. Adam Schwartz was kind enough to let 56 pinball degenerates come to his beautiful place at Tribeca. First of all, Adam, why would you let us hear? You know, Jeff, it's actually an honor because what's unique about New York City is unlike most towns or areas, we don't really have basements here. True. And so collections are often very limited because space is such a premium, right? And so I've been very lucky to be able to get an amazing space. We have 14 beautiful games here. And I got to, quite frankly, share the love. So I think this is what pinball is all about. Obviously, we love playing, but we also like sharing and community and engaging in the social side of it. So it's really just a very easy decision. Adam, you're very, very gracious, not only to have us here, but to let us play some of the finest machines. Let me just go through the four teams. You've got Can Crusher, Deadpool. Is that an LE or premium? Yeah, pretty much everything is going to be an LE. Beatles, Metallica, Walking Dead, TNA, Iron Maiden, T2, a beautiful remake of Monster Bash. Down in the classics area, you've got Centaur, the best-looking stargazer I have ever seen, Evil Knievel, Gold Strike, and Nineball. That is an amazing collection. How long did it take you to put this together? About two and a half years. and really more recently obviously originally you tend to focus on the newer games easier to acquire more recently the classics and you're right, that Stargazer I'm just so proud of it that's probably my most prized possession with that nine ball as a close second the early Stern classics are just right in the pocket for me right now really enjoying those if you were to see these machines and you've seen pictures on our Facebook page I mean, they look just as new as Deadpool, as Iron Maiden, as the Beatles. It's really quite impressive. I mean, some fabulous work to put these restorations together. And that's got to be a nice sense of pride. But that being said, when you have 56 people playing at your venue here, everyone is very respectful. But still, it's very generous that you opened it up to everyone. Oh, well, thank you. You know, I've got to admit, I'm a little bit of a condition freak. so when I buy games I really want just the best examples that I can find it's probably a little bit of OCD I should maybe figure out how to get my meds straightened out but yeah I mean they're great examples lucky to find some of them have just been real serendipitous how I've come across them and just again so happy to be able to share them with the community yeah you know the only thing that would be better is if you had a rooftop patio oh wait a second you've got that too overlooking the World Trade Center and just a beautiful part of Manhattan. Again, a lucky space. We have a roof deck. People can enjoy beautiful views of downtown Manhattan. We're looking right now at the Freedom Tower, which is great and a great reminder of being in New York City. So, yeah, and again, we got lucky tonight with a beautiful night, a nearly full moon, gorgeous to be out there in between rounds, especially in the tournament. As you can see, a lot of people from outside of New York and from other countries even too. So thank you. It's going to be a nice memory for everyone. I don't know who you killed to get to where you're at today. I don't care. I hope they never find the body. Adam, thank you very much. Thanks a lot, Jeff. Very good to hang out with you. She's a pinball VIP. I don't care what you can say. You can take that to the bank. Katie Rozier joins us. And I shouldn't even be talking to you right now because my Raptors are playing your stupid Bucs. I know you're more of a Green Bay Packers fan, but your Bucs look pretty good. Well, remember, I'm originally from Arizona, so I'd be a Suns fan, so we're not even in contention with each other. You even blew the draft with the Suns, too. But let's talk about some pinball. You're here in New York City once again, and what do you think of this VIP party? Oh, no, this is fantastic. You know what, actually, our host Adam, I just actually played against him on T2, and I cannot stop drooling at how beautiful of an example of an original HUO T2 this is. That's a good tactic to drool on the table. People can't see the flippers. Well done, Katie. Well, you know what? Usually I drool in our shoes so they slip and crack their head on the back of the machine. But, you know, he's got carpet in front of the damn thing. What am I supposed to do, you know? No matter where we play next in pinball, it's going to be like playing in the slums after this. Oh, absolutely. You know, I mean, it's like you can tell the whole audience, you know, I dressed in a very nice dress tonight thinking that everybody else was going to wear the proper attire. But I'm a queen. So you want me to wear a dress? Well, I've got an extra one. All right. You know what? I need black, though. Oh, I've got two black. Well, Francesco's going to wear one tomorrow, so we got one extra one. So what happened to your Green Bay Packers this year? The best thing that Aaron Rodgers did was appear in a Game of Thrones episode. Yeah, you know about that.

  • The Skyline Hotel ballroom is more than twice the size of the previous venue (the penthouse), with improved flow designed by Austin Smith

    high confidence · Levy Naiman interview about venue upgrade

    • @ venue discussion

  • “Steve Ritchie been texting me nonstop, asking me when I get back so I can get more code out in the game, so we can get even more great features that we have planned”

    Tim Sexton @ Black Knight interview — Shows designer passion and momentum behind Black Knight Sword of Rage development

  • “You know what's interesting? It's a difficult balance... Some of those things are dependent on layout. Like, is there something clear for a player to hit that is satisfying just in and of itself?”

    Steven Bowden @ design roundtable — Design philosophy combining playfield layout with feedback mechanisms

  • “You get to rub shoulders with all the best players in North America, really. It's awesome.”

    Joe Cherubino (volunteer) @ volunteer interview — Community value of tournaments beyond competition

    • person
    Keith Elwinperson
    Bowen Kerinsperson
    Steven Bowdenperson
    Ed Jardinaperson
    Megan Spragueperson
    Benjamin Furigaperson
    Joe Cherubinoperson
    Steve Ritchieperson
    Austin Smithperson
    Sean the Storm Grantperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Deep Root Gamescompany
    New York City Pinball Championshipevent
    Skyline Hotelorganization
    Dahlia Rowanperson
  • ?

    code_update: Black Knight Sword of Rage in active development: Tim Sexton reports Steve Ritchie messaging nonstop for code improvements; game still pre-1.0; more features planned; will continue updates after tournament

    high · Tim Sexton: 'Steve Ritchie's been texting me nonstop, asking me when I get back so I can get more code out... We've got to get the code to 1.0. We've got to get all the features in...'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern using major tournament placement of Black Knight Sword of Rage as marketing/testing ground; Tim Sexton negotiated directly with Stern leadership (Gary) for tournament show copy; planned route placement at Pioneers in Manhattan post-tournament

    high · Tim Sexton: 'I went to Gary and I said look, come on, it's my tournament. You've got to do something for me here. and he's like, okay, if you can sell the game, we'll get you a game there'

  • ?

    technology_signal: IFPA app by Ed Jardina expanding feature set: beta version in testing includes women's rankings, youth rankings, state championship and national championship series tracking; waiting on API updates from IFPA/Brian Shepard

    high · Ed Jardina: 'I actually got a beta version of my phone now that has women's rankings, youth rankings, and state championship and national championship series. So hoping to get that out in the next month'

  • ?

    event_signal: CNE PC (Canadian National Exposition Pinball Championship) announced for Toronto in August 2019; multi-tournament format (three classics, main, women's); co-organized by Megan Sprague; venue shared with eSports; expansion of North American tournament circuit

    high · Megan Sprague announcement: 'There's five tournaments... three classics, a main and a women's tournament... There's going to be a free play area... in the same location as the eSports... C&E Gaming Garage'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Keith Elwin limiting competitive travel due to Stern workload; explicitly not attending IFPA 16 (World Championships in Italy); characterizes work as priority over international competition. Raymond Davidson defending world title at IFPA 16

    high · Keith Elwin: 'I dropped out of IPA 16... One day when I don't have a game coming out, yeah. Maybe never.' Raymond Davidson: 'couple of weeks overseas to Milan for the World Championships, trying to defend my title'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Adam Schwartz's approach to collecting emphasizes condition/restoration quality: 2.5 year acquisition period; explicit preference for best-condition examples; 'condition freak' with extensive restoration work; machines visually indistinguishable from new units

    high · Adam Schwartz: 'I'm a little bit of a condition freak... when I buy games I really want just the best examples... they look just as new as Deadpool, as Iron Maiden, as the Beatles... some fabulous work to put these restorations together'

  • ?

    community_signal: NYC pinball community faces significant venue constraints due to real estate: lack of basements/storage space makes private collections difficult; shared venues and collector spaces become critical community infrastructure for tournaments and play

    high · Adam Schwartz: 'What's unique about New York City is unlike most towns... we don't really have basements here... collections are often very limited because space is such a premium... I've been very lucky to be able to get an amazing space'

  • ?

    content_signal: Benjamin Furiga operating NYC Pin Pod with live audio broadcasting support from NYCPC; concurrent tournament play and full-time broadcasting role; technical challenge to balance both commitments

    high · Benjamin Furiga: 'I'm providing live audio support for the things that are happening on stage here at NYC PC... It's a challenge to do that and also add the live element of it... I'm on the bubble in classics'

    • 5:52
    No comment. I love your game picks and your previews. If you watch Katie every week, you would swear Green Bay has never lost a game ever. Ever. And I'll tell you, they've been undefeated for as long as I've been born, going on 41 years here. So, you know, it's funny. There's a hidden episode, a hidden Packers report out there that was filmed in D.C. during MAGFest that was not aired. Because I can tell you, it was probably the most colorfully worded broadcast that we had attempted. The Christmas one was great with the family on the hammer. Oh, absolutely. I can't even tell you what happened at the end of that night. But I'll tell you something, when you're with the D'Estasios and you get promised a D'Estasios sandwich, sorry boys, you know how happy you're about to get married now. When you're promised a D'Estasios sandwich and one of them brings home the medal, of course, you're all about it. Listen, you guys got to get out to MAGFest next year. Whether or not they're on the pro circuit or not, you guys got to come out. It's a hell of a four-day show. Kevin Stone does a great job. Absolutely. You know, and this will be my fourth year coming up, I believe, helping him out. It's, you know, right at the beginning of the year, you know, right after the holidays. It's a great time to come out. You're sick of the family. You've got to get out and play pinball. Absolutely. And you know what? It's not a pump and dump. You know, you paid the $75. You get in the door for all four days, nonstop music, gaming, partying. And, you know, everybody has a great time. And next January we can talk about why the Packers didn't make the playoffs again. Oh, my God. Oh, who said that? No, no, no. Katie, all the best. You look fabulous in that green dress. So, absolutely. Thank you so much. Us bums are slumming it in our sneakers and T-shirts. But I'll tell you what. You know, you guys dropped me a line there on Facebook. You tell me who you want as a sponsor for the Packers Report. I'm always open to suggestions on, you know, subjects, topics, anything you guys want to do. Yeah. We try to have fun with it. Start with the liquor store. Yeah, absolutely. You know, we need to take these things on location. All right, Katie. I've got to run. I've got to go play now. But great talking to you. Have fun in New York City. Absolutely. And if you guys aren't here, you're missing a hell of a good time this week. You know, never beef. They're putting on a great, spectacular week for us. So it's good seeing you. Hope to see you at least in one set of the finals and see the rest of you clowns later on, right? See you, Katie. Have a good one. Again, here at the VIP party before the New York City Pinball Championships begin. And what a treat here in Tribeca. Thanks to Greg Pavarelli. And how'd you put this all together? Hey, thanks, man. And, you know, really happy that yourself and everybody else visiting is here. And, you know, Levy and the Never Beef guys, Tim, Paul, Austin, all of them, they were a huge factor in this. Huge shout-out to Adam, the host. Just a great space and just came into a place where we had this opportunity to throw such a cool tournament at a nice location. And I'm super stoked that it worked out great. I mean, still a lot of fierce competition going on in there. Some top players like yourself crushing it. Twenty-something people left. and we're through wrestling. There's not many? Oh, good. But hey, you know what? You ran a three-strike tournament last year. It went pretty well. I think you stepped it up this year, and what a wonderful host, too. Oh, yeah. I mean, look, at the end of the day, we've got nine modern games and five solid states. No, two EMs, three solid states, and it's moving well. We've got good beer, good pizza. The view is gorgeous. This is where we're standing right now, Internet, so right in front of this beautiful skyline. You'll see the picture on Facebook. You know, when I think of what the Never Beef crew did to bring this here last year, it really is mind-boggling to think that there really wasn't a lot of pinball competitions other than what you do at Sunshine on Wednesdays and some of the team leagues, but no real major championships since the early Papa days. Yeah, I mean, it's so amazing that Never Beef pulled this off. It really feels like Papa Nostalgic, New York City. Like what Epstein did was so amazing for the hobby, and these guys are picking up right where he left off. It's a beautiful hotel, ballroom. The space is going to be great. It's going to be like a real show experience right in the heart of the city. They've got a really cool free play bank, three major tournaments going on. It looks to be some really high-quality play, of course, with so many strong players coming. But I really like the banks I don know how you felt Jeff The banks are super well and that goes a long way in a tournament You know you want to see stuff like that And thanks to Fred Cochran and the Papa Group for bringing out some of those games for the big event at the Skyline Hotel But it's going to be really, really impressive and something I look forward to every year. You know, it's good that there's some pinball competitions here because I wouldn't know what to do in New York City. Yeah, I mean, look, so many people come here and do the touristy thing or get consumed in, you know, going to the main attractions of New York. And I actually think you'll find the best in going to places where people don't usually go, dive bars. Restaurants that don't have four and a half stars or Michelin are just kind of like above the average strong fit for their neighborhoods. There's so many cool things to do in New York. And something like this for the pinball community, having you guys come here and be part of this major championship that they're pulling off, like NYCPC 2019 is going to be such a boom. I could already tell how amazing it's going to be. I'm super stoked for it. And, you know, I think it's just going to go off without a hitch. I know you got to run buddy because you got some TD to do thank you very much hey thanks Jeff always a pleasure man congratulations to Sean the Storm Grant for beating Joe Lemaire in the finals to win the three-strike tournament then it was on to the Skyline Hotel for the main event of the NYCPC so many players from around the world and we talked with some of those and some of the organizers as well I don't know if I'm more happy about his never beef status and bringing G Fuel and everything else to the New York City Pinball Championships, but he's done a little bit more, especially with Stern, the lead coder on Black Knight Sword of Rage. Tim Sexton joins us right now. Tim Balls, congratulations on everything you've done. It's been a busy month. Yes, it has. Jeff Teal is a pinball profile. It's been very busy here. Game's coming out. We've got Ellie's on the line right now. People are getting Ellie's right now. They're all excited. Got more code coming. We've got the game in the tournament right now. It's going to Al Seahack after it's done. He's probably going to put it at Pioneers in Manhattan here on location. That is exciting for you to see this game in such a big tournament, too, and holding up well. You made sure the code was a great number and almost full code before it got launched. That's important. Yeah, I did what I could.
    12:19
    We helped get here through Stern, too. They helped out by getting us a show game here. I went to Gary and I said, look, come on, it's my tournament. You've got to do something for me here. and he's like, okay, if you can sell the game, we'll get you a game there. So he got it there. It was nice to see on the undercard of the Thrill at Manila, whatever you want to call the... Yeah, the Thrill at Sternilla. Yeah, that was pretty fun. We did that to raise awareness for the Project Pinball and the Path of Play charities. So what's it like now that you've got your first game out? Do you just kind of ride on the coattails of it, just coast your feet up at the desk and just kind of like, look, hey, everything's good for me right now? I'll tell you that since I've been here, Steve Ritchie's been texting me nonstop, asking me when I get back so I can get more code out in the game, so we can get even more great features that we have planned in the game. He's very passionate about the games. I'm very passionate about the game. I'm also passionate about this tournament. I let George know ahead of time, like, look, I'm going to be out for a couple days. I'm going to delay the code. Sorry, guys, but I'll be back. I'll hit the ground running again. I mean, this has been my first break for a while to just go up here and do the tournament. I'm not really on a break, but we'll go back into it. We've got to get the code to 1.0. We've got to get all the features in, make sure it's all bug-free and everything. And then there's a trillion more projects, I think, at Stern coming down the pipeline, so I'll be used where they need me in the future. I've got to tell you, I mean, the animations are spectacular. The music is pretty intense. It's perfect for a Black Knight game. And I'm going to say this to you as an employee of Stern. I'm glad to see this, really, I call it an original theme. I know it's licensed by Williams, but really, this game that you came out with, because it is a Steve Ritchie classic, and it's great to see the sequel. Right, yeah, and I mean, to me, when I got into pinball, it was well after Black Knight and Black Knight 2000 came out, but at the time, everything was new to me, and Black Knight 2000 stuck out because of its iconic sound package, for sure, and of course the upper play field and everything, so it was nice to be able to work with Steve again on the project and bring it up into the 21st century with all the new technology we have in the game and what we can do with it. Tim Sexton, congratulations on both this tournament, the New York City Pinball Championships, and on Black Knight Sword of Rage. Thank you, Jeff Teal. Ed Jardina is here. You know him because he made the IFPA app that's really popular. Congratulations. That's a nice little piece of work you did there. Oh, thank you. I appreciate everybody who took the time to download it to put on their phone. It paid off, all that high school computer club stuff, right? Yeah. I mean, finally, I found a use for it.
    14:50
    No, it's very popular. Are you doing a lot of updates? I keep seeing a few come on. Yeah, I actually got a beta version of my phone now that has women's rankings, youth rankings, and state championship and national championship series. So hoping to get that out in the next month. We're just waiting, working with Brian Shepard to get the API updated. Really appreciate all their help. I actually have to run to a game, though. All right, good luck, Ed. Thank you. Megan Sprague's here from Ottawa. Hey, Megan, we're here in New York, but this weekend we announced something big happening in Toronto in August, the CNE PC, and you're a big part of that too. Absolutely, very proud to be a part of it. There's five tournaments. I know you're going to be helping out. There's three classics, a main and a women's tournament. Tell people what they're going to see when they come to Toronto for the CNE PC in August. Oh, well, there's going to be a great lineup of games. There's going to be a free play area. So much fun. We're going to be in the same location as the eSports, so it's not just pinball. If you're into video games too, there's something to check out. It's called the C&E Gaming Garage, and you can find out at TheX.com. So TheX.com. And, yeah, there's all kinds of stuff. And I think, Megan, you're up, but we'll find out more about that C&E PC. Good luck. Great, thanks. Where do you start with this guy? I mean, when you think of the New York City Pinball Championships, you think of Never Beat Productions. You think of a tournament like no other. Why? Because how alive it is. Thanks to Levy Naiman. Levy, it's always fun coming to New York. You put on a wonderful tournament. And it's always fun when we talk to you and you visit New York. There's always a presence in the air when a Canadian is on my block in Hell's Kitchen. We love it. This is amazing. And you went from the penthouse before. Now we're in this huge ballroom. Lots of space, lots of games. A free play area. That's new this year. Well done. Thank you. I appreciate that. We miss the view, but this is a fantastic room. It's more than twice as big. The flow is really nice, the way Austin Smith designed it. We've got a really nice flow around with the games on the wall, the stage. We really couldn't be happier. This turned out exactly as we drew it up. And it's pretty much gone off without a hitch. I prefer it down here for a couple of reasons. Yeah, the view. But you know what? Because we're on the level four, you can go outside and have that view. You can go outside to the deli and get a place. You don't have to mess around with those janky old elevators. Speaking of which, what do you think of the renovation?
    17:08
    It used to look like it was 1962 with the skyline. Now it kind of looks like it's 1985. I love it. Oh, yeah, look at that. Back to the Future. Very nice. No, it's great here. And again, one of the things I really admire that you did, the Dahlia Rowan Memorial Women's Division Tournament. That's something that's a nice keepsake for years to come. We are honored to honor Dahlia's memory. We all love her, and I just think it's been really nice to have her sign here the whole time and have a bank dedicated to her, and everybody seems to appreciate it, which is fitting. You know, when you go to Replay FX in Pinburg, you see some great music down in the other hall. You're going to get that music shoved down your ear hole here when Sean the Storm Grant plays. And your band, too, The Knobs. By the way, did you know that Led Zeppelin once played a show called The Knobs? They weren't allowed to call themselves Led Zeppelin. Eva von Zeppelin, her family sued them. This was in Denmark, I believe, and they had to play a show as The Knobs. Zeppelin's coming after you. I was just going to tell you that you can save your dime store rock trivia. I knew that, but I did not know the back story. I knew that they had once been known as the Knobs, but I honestly had never heard this. They were sued by the limp mistress? Eva Von Zeppelin had, I don't know, but they just, to avoid it, they just went, you know what, we'll play as the Knobs, sell it out anyway. So I expect Jimmy Page to show up tonight as well. Yeah, he might stagger in the door and give us a little help. We'll see what happens. It's a lot of fun. I'm enjoying it. I know you're busy. Thanks, Libby. All right, thank you, and good luck. Wow, this is a treat here at the New York City Pinball Championship. Three of the greatest players ever. Raymond Davidson, I'm Jeff Joles, Keith Elwin here. I mean, this is a real, real treat. Raymond, tell us what you think about Keith's play. An inspiration, correct? It is dang impressive for sure. And Keith, we're on the older side of things. What about this young buck over here, Raymond? He reminds me a lot of Raymond. Who? Raymond. I remember him as a kid. As a kid, yes. He didn't know what a tap pass was. That's the only reason I beat him. I saw him drinking a cider at a tournament not too long ago at Pimberg. I mean, I wanted to check ID, but anyway. Raymond, you've been on fire lately. This is a good tournament. I know it's a long way for you to come, but it's well worth it. Yeah, it's quite the trek for us West Coasters, but I don't go to the East Coast often, so I thought I'd come here for the New York City Pinball Championships. And then you're off to Italy soon. Yeah, yeah, a couple of weeks overseas to Milan for the World Championships, trying to defend my title. All right, Keith, you've got to explain. I know you dropped out of IPA 16. Is it A, because you don't have a passport, B, because you're busy as hell at Stern, or C, you can't stand Italians? Oh, yeah.
    19:54
    Nothing to do with being busy, but, yeah. Possibly busy. Are we ever going to see you outside the U.S.? I thought maybe last year at IPA 15 at Becker's.
    20:04
    Someday. Well, actually, you know what? I think about last year. Now that I'm semi-retired, it's not much. You were busy as hell last year. I mean, Maiden had just come out, too, and you were doing shows and things and obviously working on game number two. But I know a lot of people from outside the U.S. would like to see you one day trek outside these doors. One day when I don't have a game coming out, yeah. Maybe never. So you not going to semi from working at Stern you saying No I not Just getting started Well we like what you doing so far All right Raymond Keith thanks very much Three of the greatest ever in pinball history Bowen just walked by. I was trying to get him. Oh, well. Every time you go to a tournament, make sure you thank the volunteers. And here's one guy who's been volunteering for quite some time here on the Saturday. Joe Cherubino. Joe, you having fun, buddy? Yeah, absolutely. I love volunteering. You get to rub shoulders with all the best players in North America, really. It's awesome. But at the NYCBC, it's great times. And you've been here for a few days, so you've had fun in New York? Yes, absolutely. Came in on Tuesday, did a lot of film-related stuff, got to see some of the best movie houses here in New York City, and a couple of movie shooting locations as well, like the place where they shot the Royal Tenenbaums or the French Connection, stuff like that, really cool stuff. Joe's a great photographer. I'm sure we're going to see some good photos, too. And make sure you check him out at Tilt whenever you visit Toronto. Thanks, Joe. Thank you. future games we are going to love are because of these two men, Bowen Cairns and Steven Bowden. Bowen from Spooky and Steve from Deep Root. Gentlemen, you're doing well in the tournament. Bowen, how about you? I just thought you'd put up a nice score on Argosy. All these games are coming from the Papa Collection this year. You have no experience on any of them. That was a pleasant surprise. I actually have way less experience than anyone who's in the Pittsburgh area from the Pittsburgh events. and actually my only experience on Argo is trying to beat it down in Classics and generally getting my butt kicked by it. It's so tough to get double bonus on that game. I love the rules. Like you can only, you have to knock down an entire bank of drop targets and then fall into the magic hole to get the double bonus.
    22:08
    And you kind of want, like talking about the new games, like what kind of simple things like that can be on a new game where a player can see like, all right, I clearly see that this causes that, but it's going to be hard for me to do it, even though it's right in front of me. All right, let's watch for that on the next Spooky Game. Thanks, Bowen. Happy birthday, Stephen Bowden. Oh, thank you very much. I saw them do a big announcement for you, and you cradled up on Rolling Stone Stern to wave to him. I heard that. I was like, I think he might be talking about me. Let me cradle up in case he is. You know what, Bowen just talked about simple rules and liking rules on some of these older games. I guess I can ask this question to both of you. you've got a lot of things you're going to be doing with Deep Root. I mean, you want to make it simple for the novice player but complex for the... Exactly. That's the importance of layering. Bring the novice player in and then use that to inspire them to achieve more. But not to have it so deep and unwieldy that the novice player gives up and doesn't really get to see the whole rest of the game. You know what's interesting? It's a difficult balance. It is, right? One of my... The player plays your game for the very first time and they're not happy with how they played, they aren't coming back at all. That's right. It's getting that second dollar, isn't it? Exactly. And then once they figure out, oh, wait, there's this too, there's that too, there's that too. Some of those things are dependent on layout. Like, is there something clear for a player to hit that is satisfying just in and of itself? Also, sound and light shows and choreography have a lot to do with that. Hold on. I remember one time you saying about the Simpsons pinball party, one of my favorite games, but I also understand how to play it. If I didn't, it would be a frustrating game. I think so, but it seems to do all right on location because of the theme. The theme, yeah. But it's hard to explain. Okay, do this, this, this. Going back to achievements and how to tie those things together, think about how the lock on TNA is very satisfying. Now try it again with all the lights off and all the sound off and all the display off and everything off but the ball hitting a thing and then going back into a hole in the lock. and you're like, oh, well, that was something. Right. You're not sure what it was. It wasn't very exciting, but it wasn't very inspiring. But the music and the environment and the lights, that helps all of that. It keeps you coming back for more every time. It's also proof that it takes a team of experts to make any of these games, where you have to have someone who is outstanding on sound and choreography and lights and display and rules and play field layout and more. It's just, that's just building the game. Now you've got to actually build the game besides that.
    24:45
    Isn't that the toughest part? I love the way pinball is moving in the last few years. With Stern, we've seen Zach and Keith and Tim Sexton, along with Lyman, who's already there, and some great players there. I'm so excited that Bowen is at Spooky. Steve, you at Deeper, because you have been playing for so long that you understand what the players are looking for, what makes sense, what is really no other way to put it, what's stupid, and that will be a part of the game. That's what we're trying to avoid, the stupid stuff. Yeah, avoid the stupid. Keep everything fun and exciting. Right? And so I can't wait until I'm able to say more and show everybody. This is one of the things that's embarrassing about being in the middle of creating something is that while you're creating it, that stupid stuff will happen all the time. You're like, oh, come on, what was that? Yeah, come on. Give me my ball back, you stupid magnet. Sometimes you're too close to it to realize it's stupid until a while. And it's like, no, wait a minute, this is stupid. Let's change it. I know a whole lot of people will think this is stupid. No, let's change it. This is much better. You know what the best two words in pinball are for a gentleman like yourself? Code update. Oh, God. People are going to start asking me about Ghostbusters. Where's the code? Yeah, I know. Right. Yeah, exactly. Go on, Steven. Thanks, guys. Thank you. If you've been following along live at the NYC PC, you've probably been following on speaker and following the NYC pin pod, and Benjamin Furiga has been doing that, and he's joining us right now. How are you, Benjamin? I'm very good. Thank you, Jeff. Now, you've been broadcasting. I've seen you do it nonstop. You're trying to play, too, but you know what? You've been giving so much back with your NYC pin pod. Is that hard to do both at the same time? It is. It's a challenge to do that and also add the live element of it. I'm providing live audio support for the things that are happening on stage here at NYC PC in addition. So it's a little bit challenging to try to juggle all those things. I'm on the bubble in classics, and I'm probably only going to try to put in a simple main ticket to make sure that I can do those things while I'm at it. Look at the dedication to broadcasting. This man's in a tournament. He's got a chance to kick butt in the classics, but oh, no, he's got to make sure everybody's getting that, too. And you know what? There are a lot of people that really thank you for doing that. Well, I'm always gratified when people listen. No one's ever required to listen to a podcast. Oh, no, I force people. Gun points sometimes. No, I often have friends who seem apologetic if they missed an episode or something, and I always feel like you're not obliged. I do it because I want to do it, and I'm sure you would say the same thing. But let me also just briefly correct you. I don't think I have a chance to blow up classics or exactly what you just said. I think I might have a chance to sneak in. Anybody on any given day. That's what I've learned in my time in this pinball competition world. Now, speaking of pinball competitions and being a great player, you've been surrounded throughout your years by great pinball areas. I mean, a guy who grew up in central Pennsylvania, was that? Okay, and then moved to Chicago and now here in New York. So you've been kind of surrounded by some great pinball areas. I have. It's a little bit strange, though. I lost the thread for a bit. When I was in central Pennsylvania, there was this great arcade that was still a quarter for every machine, even into the mid-'90s. And I played a lot of pinball in the 90s when I was still in college in central Pennsylvania. Then I moved to Chicago. I knew that Williams had collapsed right about the time that I was making the move. And I just lost the thread. I just stopped being able. I didn't look for it anywhere. And I stopped for several years. I found it again in a bar in Brooklyn three or four years ago, maybe five or six years ago. and I came back to it and found all of this wonderful competition happening around me. It was great. Well, the availability of certain places, depending on where you were, at least you were in some major areas. The smaller the areas, the less chances there were arcades. So there was a 15-year period where I hadn't played pinball. The first time I played pinball was 2014, so 1999 to 2014, 15 years. It's like I was frozen in time, so I know what that's like. Right, right. And it wasn't like I switched all of a sudden. Oh, I'm into home gaming or video games. No, it's just I couldn't find it. Right. No, same thing for me. I had almost the exact same experience, although it was partially because I wasn't looking for it.
    29:12
    When I heard that Williams had collapsed, I think I just or was in the process of altering their business model.
    29:20
    To not include pinball is probably the appropriate thing to say. Don't they still make slot machines? Yes, they do. But I didn't think to look for it for a while, and I think that's how I fell out of it. You're saying you couldn't find it, but I think I just wasn't actively seeking it because I didn't realize I was missing it to a certain degree. Well, we don't miss it anymore because it's live and well here, especially at the NYC PC. It's been a great second-year event. Were you here last year as well? I was. I was. It's amazing how they stepped up. They went from the penthouse to the ballroom, massive size. But, I mean, we've seen some great pinball action here. And you've been following some great pinball action, too, because you've covered the New York State Championships. Alberta won. Steve Bowden came in second. That must have been a lot of fun. It was. And I was also playing in that while I was doing it. Eric Sweetland actually jumped in and filled in for me. And you'll probably hear his voice in addition to some others if you had tuned in to NYC Pin Pod's coverage of NYC PC. There are probably several other voices you will hear throughout the day. but Eric has always been a great listener and always jumps in if I need something. He was great to have around and so I effectively did what we're doing right now, walked around with my phone and sort of stood on chairs and looked over to try to see what was happening because there wasn a stream or anything of course And it was a really gratifying experience for me to hear the few people who listened come and find me and say that was great, I was really happy to be able to follow along, even though I wasn't here. Obviously there wasn't a Twitch stream as well, which makes this a little bit different, because I'll be doing audio only while there's also a video component. It was really fun to try to capture the mood of what was happening live and also get a little bit of the action in there in those sorts of circumstances. Some first-hand experience, too. Well, whether it was Eric filling in or you, Benjamin, NYC Pin Pod, I recommend you checking it out. Thanks very much, and good luck this weekend. Of course. Good luck to you. Thank you very much, Jeff. Oh, my. The better half of the Slam Tilt podcast. Who will it be? Ron Howlett. Hey, Ron. Hello.
    31:31
    I'm sorry, wrong voice. Yes, hello. Hello. I'm trying to talk to Ron, for God's sake. Oh, okay, Krusty. Okay, Krusty. How are things going, buddy? Haven't seen you in a while. Lots of pumping and dumping. More dumping, I've noticed. Yeah, I think I have 24 consecutive voids I'm at right now. I think I played a tournament, and I can't remember where it was, where I had an entire day of voids. Yeah. I think, you know what, it was Chicago Expo. And most of the scores aren't terrible. They're just not as good as my previous score. Do you find a way to get under them? Yeah, pretty much. Now, you have a reputation of being Mr. Bubble. Will you avoid that? Probably not. It's bleeding out, and I can't seem to do anything. I'm playing Sinbad, Target Pool, or Stars. Stars is just too brutal. Stars is Stars. Yeah, Stars is Stars. Target Pool and Sinbad seem a little more reasonable, but Lightning in a Bottle, that's what I need. A lot of fans want to know what's up with Slam Tilt. It's not gone. It's just irregular now. Yeah, like Bruce. No, I mean, sorry. No, it's pretty much after big events. We'll usually do an episode. work we're promoting something. This is a big event. Yeah. Will we hear something about this? There'll probably be an episode after this. I hope so. Gotta do it. Say hi to Bruce, and I hope everything's going well at the Silver Ball Saloon. Always good to talk to you, Ron. You too, Jeff. My God, woman, you've done it again, and I have to get you back on Pinball Profile, but for a good reason. The Dahlia Rowan Memorial Women's Champ at the New York City Pinball Championships, Julie Dorsey, you are on fire! I feel really great about it, and there was some really tough competition here, the New Yorkers. I had three New Yorkers and they played awesome. Everybody played great, so I just got a little bit lucky and I had one really good game on Congo. A game I didn't really play that much, so I was really happy. Playing on the fly, you were great. You were making your shots. You got gray right away and bashing the Congo thing down on the lower play field. It was fun to watch. You can catch that on backhand pinball. They streamed the whole thing, so that was nice. Now, you won a nice trophy. Obviously, it looks great to have those Whopper points. Maybe this will get you to Vegas, too. That would be awesome. And I think my partner, Tim, loves Vegas, so I don't think he would hesitate to make a trip there. How much does Tim love Vegas? Tim has his own craps table in his home, right? Yes, he does, and he gives lessons. So if you ever want to learn how to play craps, he will teach you. Julie, what was the harder decision, battling the nerves or when you won $600 for winning it, not buying everyone ice cream after, which I thought was a pretty low blow? I have a mortgage to pay.
    34:17
    Well, congratulations. If you win another one, I want a scoop. I will. I'll totally buy you a scoop. Thank you. All right. Julie Dorsters, congratulations. Thank you, Jeff. We're getting all the lead programmers on this program. I mean, my goodness, we've had Tim Sexton on. And we've had people do code like Bowen and Steve Bowden. I think Lyman Sheets is here as well. But how about Joe Katz and the latest pinball machine from Jersey Jack Pinball, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. It is here on free play at the New York City Pinball Championships. Joe, this is a beautiful machine. Thank you very much. My voice is going away, so I'll do my best. It's early Sunday morning here, so it's not the best time to talk for anybody. I know what that's like. But, hey, I mean, I'm looking at this machine, the WonkaVision, That gorgeous elevator, the everlasting gobstopper, and what a great mech there. A lot of good toys on this one. Yeah, definitely. There's a lot to see and do on this one. All right, I need the Coles Notes version. How do I beat this game up? This is a beautiful Pat Lawler design. There's four flippers. There's lots of action. I see some captive ball value. I've played it a few times. I just had fun playing it. Didn't know what I was doing, but it's fun, fun, fun. Well, the first thing you probably want to do is hit the ramps to collect Wonka Bars, which will get you to your bonus. and bonus has the ability to carry over per ball. Golden bonus levels, if you reach 10 or 25 or 50 or 100 or 200 on any ball, it will continue to carry over the rest of the game, kind of like an old-school Bally super bonus. Then you have the inserts in the middle of the play field that kind of represent the factory tour. So each group of four is qualified via a different way, and they can be kind of mixed and matched and stacked and all kind of started at the same shot. So you can kind of do like one of the modes, a 5X play field and super spinner all at the same time and kind of bring that all together. Maybe the mode is a very spinner-focused mode, so then you're going to have super spinner, the mode with a spinner, and a 5X play field kind of running at the same time. Slow down, Joe. Dumb it down for this guy right here. I'm looking at, okay, so what are the modes here? All right, so you've got the bottom four modes, which are kind of like represented by the scenes in the movie, like the hole-in-egg room and the fizzy lifting drink room and the inventing room. And then we have sort of a group mode that's kind of Welcome to the Factory, which kind of incorporates all the early scenes where they're kind of walking through the psychedelic hallway and the hallway that gets smaller. Where's the chicken's head being cut off? Is that in here? I'm just kidding. The mode is there, but we decided, you know, the chicken head's probably a little too much to be putting in there. Darn it. Right, so you qualify the bottom four by completing the Wonka Tower, which is by hitting the right ramp or hitting the factory target. You can also roll through the factory in lane, which will start a hurry up at the factory target, which will fill the entire tower in. It's a tough shot. It's the add-a-ball shot. It's the add-time shot as well. So during multiple balls, you've got to make that one tough. The Super X group is either by either orbit lighting them. And then once it's lit, the spinner will change which one's lit. So 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, sort of alien star-ish in a way. Okay, oh, all right. Then the top four are via the captive ball. So you hit the captive ball a bunch of times, and it'll light kind of a group of four up at the top, which all kind of relate to Wonka bars, except Slugworth multi-ball is kind of the only one that's not Wonka bar related. like super spinner will give you value, but it will also give you bars. So every spin you have, you'll get an extra bar. Collect bonus sort of cashes in your Wonka bars, and at that point you could have a really big bonus with a lot of bars and a lot of bonus X and maybe a super X play field running at the same time when you cash in collect bonus and blow up your score just by collecting bonus at the correct time. Wow. You know, I look at every Jersey Jack game, and there's always just so much on the play field. The last game, Pirates of the Caribbean is actually right beside us here. Beautiful game. And I bet you'd be happy to see Willy Wonka get the kind of praise that Pirates has been getting. And all your other games for that matter, too. But just Pirates over the last year, people are just like, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. And this, from the get-go, I know a lot of people and podcasters were like, wow, here's my money. I mean, this is beautiful. So it had to be a thrill for you. The theme is really legendary, too. Timeless. Definitely. And, again, the toys, the artwork, it's all come together. You have to be so excited to be lead programmer on this. There's a lot to do with that theme, first of all. Yeah, definitely. It's kind of in the realm of Oz. It's a classic movie. It's been around forever. Everyone knows it. Everyone watched it growing up. Everyone makes their kids watch it now. It's been a really fun theme to work on. And, yeah, I hope someday it gets the praise that Posse gets because Pirates is really well put together. And people really are finally starting to play Posse. and I hope I get kind of the same reception once this game kind of gets out there. And that's part of the reason why I'm glad it was here this week and I was able to watch a lot of better players than just a bunch of show people who don't really know pinball. But I got to watch a bunch of actual good players play today and yesterday, and it was something to see. You just called Pirates of the Caribbean Potsy? Yeah, you know, that's what it's called, you know. Happy days. JJP Potsy, whatever you want to call it.
    39:10
    You know, I'm looking forward to going to Pintastic at the end of June. Are you going to that too? I'm not, but I know there's going to be some special stuff going on there. So we've got Willy Wonka going to be there. I know Veruca Salk, the actress who plays Veruca Salk, will be there. So will the actor who plays Charlie Bucca and Mike TV. So three of the five kids are going to be there. And you know what? A lot of people think I look like Augustus Gloop. So you fit right in. I might balloon up like Violet Beauregard. There you go. Hey, this is great. Congratulations, Joe, to the entire team, to Pat Lawler, to Jack, and everybody there at Jersey Jack. Thanks for making another great game. Awesome. Thank you very much. As the NYC PC came to a close, congratulations to all the winners. In the Classics Division, Bowen Cairns beat Ian Harrower. We heard Julie Dorsers win the Dahlia Rowan Memorial Women's Tournament. Jay Steinberg won the B Division. And in the main event, Keith Elwin was the winner, beating Stephen Bowden, Raymond Davidson, and Jerry Bernard to take home the $2,000 prize from G Fuel. You can catch all the action on Backhand Pinball. Mark did such a spectacular job with that. and you can find that on Twitch. Great job to Never Beef Productions. Thank you to Papa for some amazing games. Eddie Kramer, Jared Chambers, the techs, volunteers, spectacular as always. Looking forward to it once again in 2020. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find our group on Facebook. We're also on Twitter at Pinball Profile. Email us pinballprofile at gmail.com and please subscribe on either iTunes, Stitcher, or Google Play. I hope you enjoy our next episode. Special guest Lyman Sheets. Some pinball history up next on Pinball Profile. I'm Jeff Teolas.