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Pinball Junk Drawer, Episode 2

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Dec 26, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Foghorn Leghorn interviews pinball/lowbrow artist Dirty Donnie about his Metallica connection and pinball career.

Summary

Episode 2 of Pinball Junk Drawer features Foghorn Leghorn hosting an interview with Dirty Donnie (Donny Gillies), a prolific pinball and lowbrow artist. The conversation covers Dirty Donnie's background in Montreal and San Francisco, his 15+ year working relationship with Metallica, his transition into pinball artwork (including Metallica pinball, Aerosmith, and Cosmic Carnival), and his broader artistic career spanning helmet design, model kits, and commercial work. The host reflects on community criticism of artists and advocates for more respectful discourse.

Key Claims

  • Dirty Donnie has been doing art for Metallica for approximately 15 years (since 2002)

    high confidence · Dirty Donnie directly states 'I've been doing art for them for about 15 years, I guess' and describes meeting Steve Hammett in 2002

  • Dirty Donnie created custom Metallica and Earthshaker pinball machines with Wade Krause and Tanya Kleiss before the official Stern Metallica game

    high confidence · Dirty Donnie describes building custom machines starting around 2005-2006, stripping and rebuilding Kingpin and Earthshaker games with artwork, music, and reprogramming

  • Dirty Donnie did artwork for a Bell Helmets line about 6-7 years ago featuring 60s/70s chopper-style designs

    high confidence · Dirty Donnie states 'Bell Helmets approached me about doing... that old school open face helmet... six, seven years ago'

  • Dirty Donnie has multiple model kit collaborations with AMT, including reissues and original designs, with a new monster kit coming next year

    high confidence · Dirty Donnie confirms 'I'm on my second... I had three a set of three come out one a year for about three years and I just signed another deal so I should have a monster coming out next year'

  • Dirty Donnie did artwork for Snap-on Tools featuring monsters driving hot rods

    high confidence · Dirty Donnie states Snap-on 'approached me... they basically wanted like... monsters driving hot rods to promote their power tools'

  • Steve Hammett and James Hetfield both had pinball machines at Metallica's San Rafael headquarters, including Twilight Zone

    high confidence · Dirty Donnie describes having the high score on 'Steve Hammett's Twilight Zone machine at their headquarters in there San Rafael' and playing with James Hetfield and Pusshead

  • The host expresses that artist Frenchie left pinball forums due to community criticism

    low confidence · Host states 'I remember Frenchie left the forums, I think, just Tee'd Off keep his sanity. Don't quote me on that. Again, I think I heard that'

Notable Quotes

  • “These guys really put it like French. They put a lot into this work. Doing artwork for a pin machine is brutal.”

    Foghorn Leghorn (Host) @ early episode — Expresses respect for artist labor and complexity of commercial art constraints

  • “Whenever I start reading these threads and people are beating up the artist I'm like you know it really disappoints me if you don't like someone's artwork... I would never like say that's crappy artwork... on a public forum”

    Foghorn Leghorn (Host) @ early episode — Host advocates for community civility toward artists despite personal taste differences

  • “It's part of the deal. It's become part of the deal. It's like you do your own vision, you do the best you can, but once things get changed and they're going Tee'd Off get changed, it's also making it just as cool making the change just as cool as the original idea”

    Dirty Donnie @ mid-interview — Describes design philosophy when working with manufacturers and licensors on commercial projects

  • “I was like, oh my God, because I have his Demonic picture disc that he had done the artwork for... I knew the artist and I really admired the artist.”

    Foghorn Leghorn (Host) @ intro section — Explains host's fandom and connection to Dirty Donnie prior to interview

  • “Steve Hammett was like he's like I want that record cover but like Metallica on the wall like kind of thing... he wanted those colors... He didn't want me Tee'd Off rip the record cover off. He wanted those colors.”

    Dirty Donnie @ mid-interview — Illustrates how collaborators repurpose and remix existing artwork rather than create from scratch

  • “Having an actual band in there a game is Papa Duke cool when it's just you in there the game and you can hear music”

    Dirty Donnie @ mid-interview — Explains the impact of licensed band music in the Metallica pinball machine

  • “I moved Tee'd Off the States about 15 years ago... I was living in there Montreal at the time... My friend actually is a roadie from Metallica... Steve Hammett hired me Tee'd Off do murals in there their studio.”

Entities

Dirty DonniepersonFoghorn LeghornpersonSteve HammettpersonJames HetfieldpersonRobert TrujillopersonWade KrausepersonTanya KleisspersonPussheadpersonStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Host criticizes community treatment of artists, noting public attacks on artwork and citing artist departures from forums

    high · Host states 'whenever I start reading these threads and people are beating up the artist I'm like you know it really disappoints me' and references Frenchie leaving forums

  • ?

    content_signal: Pinball Junk Drawer Episode 2 is a long-form podcast interview format featuring artist-focused content and industry history

    high · Episode features 1+ hour interview with pinball artist, discussion of industry figures and design philosophy

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Dirty Donnie articulates approach to commercial art: maintaining design integrity while accepting client-driven changes

    high · Quote: 'you do your own vision, you do the best you can, but once things get changed... it's also making it just as cool making the change just as cool as the original idea'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Custom pinball machines built by Dirty Donnie and Wade Krause incorporated hand-painted artwork, screen printing, and licensed music before being industry standard

    high · Dirty Donnie describes custom builds with 'stenciling, screen printing, hand painting' and music integration around 2005-2006

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Metallica band actively involved in licensing and approving artwork for Stern Metallica pinball game; band members had creative input

    high · Dirty Donnie reports Metallica members wanting him as artist and providing creative direction on design elements

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.154

0:00
Now who's responsi- I say who's responsible for this unwarranted attack on my person? I say, I say, I say, pay attention now, boy. This is, of course, Foghorn Leghorn presents the Pinball Junk Drawer. You all asked for it. I say, I say, you all asked for it now. You're gonna get it. Boy, oh boy, are you gonna get it. Go, I say, go away, boy, you bother me. I say, have a seat, boys and girls. It's Foghorn Leghorn. I'm presenting another show for the Pinball Junk Jore. To follow up the very successful What is the Pinball Junk Jore show. Oh my God. Don't worry, folks. It might get a little better. Not more entertaining. Well, maybe. I don't know. Doesn't matter. I digress. My name's Foghorn Leghorn, and I'm here to bring you all kinds of shenanigans.
0:50
Pinball related, sometimes other. Who knows? Buckle up. So after much deliberation, I was kind of thinking about this the last week and a half. Which one would I drop in? And I was like, well, I guess I'll drop in the Dirty Donnie one. I also was thinking maybe I should cut it into two because it's pretty long. But then I was like, I don't know. That's kind of, I don't know. Game time decision. Not sure. I'm probably going to just drop it in and leave it a long show. My goal is probably to keep these 15 to 20 minutes-ish. so I still might cut this into half I might just play I don't know my brain is a casserole of nonsense so basically this was an interview I did with Dirty Donnie, Donnie Gillis who's a really really talented artist I want to say it was either 2015 or 2016 at Freeplay Florida which that's where the majority of my interviews came from so far and um it was neat he just dropped uh he just came out he did Aerosmith that wasn't I don't think Aerosmith was released yet or maybe Metallica yeah lots of facts bouncing around in my brain here uh so he had done he he did the Metallica one he did the Aerosmith one he hadn't released Can Crusher yet so that wasn't I don't think that was done yet um so he was really kind of hitting the pinball scene. I don't know what he's done since. I know he did the rescue artwork for the ill-fated, what was that, Carnival, Cosmic Carnival. And if you see the artwork for that, love it or hate it, the artwork's gorgeous. I remember the first iteration of the artwork. I'd seen it there at the Freeplay Florida, and I was like, ooh, somebody whacked this with an ugly stick. And then they were like, oh, my God, this is a disaster. Then they called in Dirty Donnie, because he was the perfect artist for that theme. He has a very cool style and a very interesting style. So it was fun because I had contacted him prior to this and asked him if he would do an interview with me because I had some of his artwork. I knew who he was, and I didn't realize he had done the Metallica. I didn't realize he was going to be at the show.

Dirty Donnie's Pinball Wizards book was available for sale at Freeplay Florida around 2015-2016

high confidence · Host recalls Dirty Donnie 'had also just done his pinball wizards book' and 'was selling there' at Freeplay Florida

Dirty Donnie @ interview — Origin story of Metallica connection and move to San Francisco

Sam Stern
person
Metallicaorganization
Freeplay Floridaevent
Pinball Junk Drawerproduct
Metallica (pinball)game
Cosmic Carnivalgame
Aerosmithgame
Pinball Wizardsproduct
Ed Rothperson
Coopperson
Bell Helmetscompany
AMTcompany
Snap-on Toolscompany
Frenchieperson
Kingpingame
Earthshakergame
  • ?

    personnel_signal: Tanya Kleiss works at Stern Pinball in programming/design capacity; collaborated on Metallica custom machines

    medium · Dirty Donnie identifies Tanya Kleiss as working at Stern Pinball and reprogramming custom Metallica machine

  • ?

    historical_signal: Discussion of lowbrow art history, Ed Roth's influence, and the lineage of hot rod/monster art styles that inform contemporary pinball design

    high · Extensive discussion of Ed Roth, Ed Newton, Stanley Mouse, and evolution of artistic style from 1950s-present

  • ?

    product_launch: Dirty Donnie has model kits in production with AMT, with new monster kit expected next year and additional car kit planned

    high · Dirty Donnie states 'I should have a monster coming out next year' and mentions working on another car model

  • ?

    business_signal: Dirty Donnie operates as independent contractor across multiple industries (pinball, music, helmet design, model kits, commercial art)

    high · Multiple references to client-based work spanning Stern, Bell Helmets, AMT, Snap-on, and Metallica

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Host advocates for shift in community discourse toward artists, criticizing public attacks and encouraging private discussion of design preferences

    high · Host repeatedly expresses disappointment in community treatment of artists and calls for respectful discourse

  • ?

    event_signal: Freeplay Florida (2015-2016) served as location for host to conduct interviews with industry artists and artists had books/merchandise for sale

    high · Host describes meeting Dirty Donnie at Freeplay Florida and Dirty Donnie selling Pinball Wizards book there

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Bell Helmets collaboration indicates cross-industry adoption of pinball artist aesthetic for consumer products

    medium · Dirty Donnie designed 60s/70s chopper-style helmets for Bell approximately 6-7 years ago as commercial product

    • 3:05
    And I was like, oh, my God, because I have his Demonic picture disc that he had done the artwork for. I have a couple of things. I have, I want to say, Electric Frankenstein. I have his his one of his first posters he did for them. So, like, I knew the artist and I really admired the artist. So when he and when he wrote back and said, yes, I was like, I was on cloud nine. I was like, man, this is awesome. And I didn't know how it was going to go. And it was so cool. He had also just done his pinball wizards book, which so that's what he was selling there. And I was like, hey, I was that guy. I'm that guy, you know, contacted about the interview. He's like, oh, cool. He literally just put a sign that said, I'll be back at some point on his for sale table. And we left. I'm like, oh, okay. He was so like nonchalant about it. So we got this seat. We got a table at in this like in the hotel restaurant. We started ordering beers. And my wife was there and his girlfriend was there, you know. And we just like were hanging out. Like this interview was so cool because, you know, I was talking to him and I was talking to him as a fan. And he made you feel like a friend, kind of. And I do have some knowledge of his style art. I have a lot of artists' works from, they call it lowbrow art, Rockin' Jellybean, Coop, him. I have a lot of this artwork where I buy it and frame it really nicely and stuff like that. So he could understand who he was talking to, someone that knew the world, knew his artwork, knew some of the stuff back. And I think it really helped. after I turned the recorder off. I think we sat there for another two hours just drinking and talking and laughing.
    4:42
    It was really a neat experience just to hang out with him. One thing that was, I don't want to say a bit of a downer,
    4:52
    these guys really put it like French. They put a lot into this work. Doing artwork for a pin machine is brutal.
    5:02
    Not only are they, they're subjugated to whatever the manufacturer says and whoever owns the property is like Metallica. Now, obviously, when you're hearing this interview, he has a working relationship with Metallica. He's their friend, kind of. He stayed with them. So they knew him, so it was probably easy on that front. But then Stern was like, no, not doing that, not doing that. These guys work really hard, and then they have to change it to whatever the end user or the client says. so whenever I start reading these threads and people are beating up the artist I'm like you know it really disappoints me if you don't like someone's artwork like I look at a machine and I'm like well I don't like that artwork so what I'm one jerk with one opinion I'm not gonna I would never like say that's well I would say it's crappy artwork or something like that but I wouldn't say it like on a public forum I would maybe say that to a friend like I don't like that style but to hear like a lot of people like a lot of the artists getting beat up I remember Frenchie left the forums, I think, just to keep his sanity.
    6:08
    Don't quote me on that. Again, I think I heard that, but I don't know. So when I heard a lot of people bagging on some of Dirty Donnie's work, I'm like, you know what, man?
    6:17
    Why don't you try it? Let's start with that. But no one ever does that. So I really wish the community as a whole would just take it easy, lighten up a little bit. just because you don't like something doesn't mean that's the correct opinion. Because opinions are all BS anyway.
    6:35
    I'm also trying to figure out if I'm going to curse a lot on this show or not. I generally don't because it makes you sound crass and ignorant. But I also do curse a lot, so I am crass and ignorant. So I digress. I'll figure that out as I go. I'm going to probably figure out a lot of stuff for this show as I go.
    6:51
    And hopefully it's enjoyable. All right, enough of my prattling on here. I am going to drop in the full Dirty Donnie interview in its entirety. Well, yeah, the full interview in its entirety. Welcome to Stupidity Theater Presents by Loghorn Faghorn. No, that's the wrong words. Oh, my God. Never do a show when you're hungover. That's today's lesson. I'm not really hungover, but I had a few last night, a few too many.
    7:19
    Here's the interview. I'll stop talking now. Oh, oh, ah, shut up. We've done hundreds of shows together. Really? All right, cool. Well, this is Mal with the Indie Circuit on Radio St. Peter. And, you know, I have the honor, the privilege, to sit down with one of the nation's greatest artists, cutting-edge, incredible, Dirty Donnie. How's it going? Thanks for having me. Oh, thank you. Really blown away. I was going to say your last name, but I butchered your last name. So what is your Dirty Donnie? Oh, it's Gillies. Yeah. Gillies. I was going to say it's probably Gillies or Gillius. or I'm bad with names. It's a tricky last name. It's another reason that's kind of where the nickname came from, Dirty Donnie. I felt that it would be a lot easier for people to remember and pronounce too. Exactly. Dirty. It's good to have a nickname. It was an art thing 20 years ago. I was like, I'll just do a nickname. Yeah, why not? I kept it. Now I've got gillies on the end of it. Makes it official, you know. So you grew up in Ontario, is that correct? Yeah, Ottawa, Canada. Ottawa, Canada? Okay, I'm sorry, Ottawa. And when did you move to the States? Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, so you're correct. I moved to the States about 15 years ago. Yeah? Yeah, I've been doing art full-time for about 20 years, and I was living in Montreal at the time, and things were going really good in Montreal, like art-wise.
    8:44
    My friend actually is a roadie from Metallica, and I was visiting, and he's like, oh, Kirk Hamill wants to see your artwork. So he brought me to the studio, and Kirk hired me to do murals in their studio. So this is 2002, I think. And so you want to pause it? No, we can go. Cool, cool. Drinks are here. Yes.
    9:03
    And Stella. Stella Artois. Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you. My pleasure. Okay, so that's amazing. I didn't know you were with Metallica. So you've been with them? I've been doing art for them for about 15 years, I guess. Wow. That's so cool. And I know Kirk, he has an extensive B-movie horror collection, doesn't he? That's his influence. He loves that stuff. Yeah, we connected right away on the monster thing. But another thing we had in common back then, 2002, was pinball.
    9:38
    I mean, I had a game at my house. It was Sonic Mars Trek in Montreal. And Kirk had a bunch of games, but we were just totally both nerding out on pinball. He had Twilight Zone, Dracula, Creature from the Black Lagoon. He had these in the studio, you know, so it was, like, really cool. We used to play them. So anyways, I worked for Metallica, ended up staying for six months doing art for the murals and doing guitars for James and basses for Robert and painting their cars and all kinds of shit. Robert's so awesome. Yeah, Robert's amazing. Believe it or not, I've seen Suicidal Tendencies, like, four times in my life. It's been with me. It was one of my first concerts, and then, like, periodically I just check in with them to make sure that they're okay and I'm okay. So I always thought he was, like, this crazy bassist, you know? Yeah, yeah. He's so powerful and so full of energy, you know. Yeah, I was there right before he got hired, too, so I had started working the murals. So in walks Robert one day, and he's like, hey, man, my name is Robert. And they're like, hey, he's a new bass player. So it was pretty cool, you know. He was staying in the city at Mike Gordon's place from Faith No More, so he would drive me home sometimes. I didn't have a rental car, so he's like, I'll drop you off in the city. You're like, cool, you know. So you're doing, like, all this work. You're doing work with them, and you land in San Francisco. Is that where you currently live? Yeah, yeah, I'm still in San Francisco, yeah. So after six months, I was getting back to the pinball thing. I have the high score. I don't remember what the score is, but I have the high score on their Twilight Zone machine, on Kirk's Twilight Zone machine at their headquarters in San Rafael to this date. I still have it. Nobody could beat it. It was, like, insane. The next time I'm there, I'll take a picture of it, and I'll put it online. But, yeah, I played, first time I met Pusshead, the artist, we played Twilight Zone together. I'm like, hey, I got the high score, man. He's like, well, I'm going to unplug it. I'm like, you can't. It's like batteries. Battery backup, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice try. He's like, damn, you know. And then James came around the corner. He's like, hey, who's on the pinball? We're trying to have a meeting here. So me and Pusshead got in trouble by James. We're like, you know, cranking pinball. Is he as intense as you seem? He's awesome. You know, he's really cool. He's really cool. I joke about that. But it's just one of those funny moments where it's like, well, me and Pusshead are playing pinball, and we just got in trouble from James Hetfield. That's almost like you wish you could record it. I got yelled at by James. It's a good story. It's the perfect story for a time like right now when we're on a podcast talking about those days. Oh my God, it's so cool. That's really incredible. You know, Metallica is one of those bands that's timeless. You know, I've loved them since I was a kid. The first time you hear them, it kind of grabs you by the throat. Did you ever envision? Now, you used to do a lot of posters for bands. Yeah, I was already a full-on art guy. I was already rock and roll. At that point in my career, it was like a feather in the cap. I saw it as a really good opportunity. God, yeah. You know, so I took it, you know, and then I didn't realize how big of an opportunity it would be. And I also didn't realize at the time that there was still this, like, you know, monster of a band that, like, you know, sold out concerts. You know, I just didn't, I hadn't been following them since, you know, I listened to them as a teenager, like Slayer, Metallica, Motorhead. But I had kind of dropped off from them a bit, and I didn't really know where they were at, you know. So I just walked in more like Hetfield into Hot Rods Muscle Cars and you know they all into pinball They all into you know Does he still have his beatnik was He has an old super high shifter He has so many cars I don't know. I don't know if they come and go and it appears in the new one. I wish that was his personal car wax or something. I could just take him for a test drive and keep him clean. No, you don't.
    13:05
    Cleaning vomit off him? No. Well, that's awesome. Now, you did the first gig with them, you know kind of like you said the first six months or whatever and now you're kind of just you just moved there you just moved to san francisco yeah after six months i i stayed yeah i stayed i stayed uh uh the barracks i was getting it was the type of thing where i was going to visit before right before that and i was like kind of making more i would i would go there i would save up a little bit of money montreal i would go there and i would come home with more money than i left with because i was like doing poster art and people were like buying my art and so i was like this is the place for me to be right now so it's hot and you get i mean if you can live in San Francisco and actually make money? Yeah, yeah. That was my thinking back then. It's like, this is the place for me to be right now, and that was 2002, 2003. So I stayed, you know, and I was sort of wandering around one day, and I walked into a local store on 8th Street called Cheap Thrills, and there's this cute little girl there, and she had a burn on her leg from a motorcycle, and she's like, hey, man, want to go on a date with me?
    14:08
    She's here. Yeah, that happened. She's here right now. I've been Stockholm Syndrome. That's awesome. I was, when I was, because obviously, you know, I have a lot of admiration for you. I've always been a huge fan of you. I like Coop and Ed Roth and, you know, your stuff. To me, it's like the pinnacle of what art should be, can be. You know, it's really awesome looking, you know. I have a Demonics cover that you did. picture oh I didn't know that you knew that oh because that's part of the story actually and I was like yes this is so cool because I love Tiki and Surf you know well that's the record yeah that's the record cover that Chip was a roadie at the time and he took that record from the Demonic's and showed that record to Kirk and that's the record cover that got me through Chip through the Demonic's hired by Kirk Hammett yeah because Kirk was like he's like I want that record cover but like Metallica on the wall like kind of thing like us yeah yeah because I'm not that record Yeah, but he wanted them surfing, but he's like, I like the sky and the moon. He wanted those colors. It was so cool. He didn't want me to rip the record cover off. He wanted those colors. Exactly. I used that as I was freaking out, like, oh, my God. He said I can interview him. That's so cool. And, of course, my wife's like, who? And I was like, oh, he did this cover. She's like, oh. And I was like, oh, and here's the 5678s. And then I have your stickers on my – I have this crazy weird truck with a Frankenstein hood. Oh, cool, cool. The whole hood is a Frankenstein vinyl wrap, and then the windows has your Galaxy Girls. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's cool. He's around.
    15:45
    So now you're working. Now you leave them, but now you're just kind of almost a local artist. Do you have a gallery out in San Francisco, or do you just kind of do it on your own? No, I have a home studio, so I work from home. I have places that I can go to rent, depending on the job. a friend's shop so I can rent out for, yeah, paint cars and bikes and stuff, vans and stuff, but I haven't been really doing too much of that. I've been working a lot on pinball stuff and illustrating, which only requires my art table and my little, my studio room. So it's like, if you're drawing, you know, it's cool. It's like you don't really need that much space. I do a lot of different styles, a lot of different things, but, you know, right now this is, you know, it's perfect for me. How do you keep changing? Like, to me that seems like it would be the hardest thing. if you're good at one thing,
    16:36
    you know, Koop's Devil, it's easy just to do Koop's Devil, you know, but you kind of always evolve and push it forward and forward. How do you keep the inspiration to keep changing? How do you keep changing? Part of it, like, thanks for recognizing that, like, part of it is that I get bored just doing one thing. Like, after I draw, like, after I do ink on paper for, like, you know, six months straight, I'm just, like, super sick of it. Like, I'm bored of it and I need to go do something else. Like, I'll set the airbrush and, you know, I'll go do some auto-paint, you know, I'll go make something, I'll build something, and then while I'm doing this other stuff, you know, I'll be getting excited about drawing again and going back to the... It keeps you charged, but also keeps expanding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's really important to be, like, versatile, too, you know, to, like, just do as many, as much different kind of... It's fun, it's fun to do it that way. I don't know, like... I went on your website, go to DirtyDonnie.com, that's it, right? Okay. I know it, but I wanted to make sure I was saying it right for my audience. And you have a shop there, and I was like, as I was looking around, I was like, you have Vans, you have some really cool, like, 70s style, like those old funky motorcycle helmets, you know, with the super glitter, the gasser style. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you painted those? Yeah, I did a set for Bell about six, seven years ago. Bell Helmets approached me about doing, like, that old school open face helmet, like, right before, I mean, it's back now, and people are like, you know, like, rocking them hard, but this is right before the wave hit, and so they're like, We want like your 70s, like your 60s, 70s style, like, you know, chopper tank, you know, helmet style, like your stuff you're doing. Peanut helmet, peanut tank, all the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. So I did them. They're in my new book. And Pinball Wizards, Blacklight Disorders, we can talk about that later. But, yeah, I mean, I tried to go for a very, like, I don't know what the word is for it. But I didn't go balls out bananas on them. But I made them kind of, like, really. Take it a couple degrees. Yeah, they're pretty. They're pretty. And they're flake. And they're, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah. I keep on saying if I can save up enough and get a hot rod, I'm going to make it like all gasser, orange flake orange. And I'm going to tell them to, as soon as you put too much flake in, put another gallon in. Then shoot it with that so it looks like a crazy orange nightmare coming at you. And that's so funny. Look at that old gasser stuff or that old 70s flake style. It's so pops compared to what we're used to. We're used to such dull tones.
    18:52
    So you have that. Now you have a model? Yeah, I have a model kit, a series of models. Is that now? yeah yeah okay cool because I'm like I was like I gotta go get this but I didn't know if it was old so I'd have to buy it on eBay or is that I'm on my second I had three a set of three come out one a year for about three years and I just signed another deal so I should have a monster coming out next year I think we're working on it now and then there'll be like another car but I'm not sure which one and I just did a charger 71 charger yeah but it's actually their model it's like AMT generally what it is it's a reissue of an old kit and they put some goodies in it and I redesign the whole package and the decals and then, you know, they'll put some added on like, you know, different wheels and then, well, they're not going to change the tooling. Yeah, it's so, it's so expensive, it would be so expensive to change that, you know, to like, to do it, yeah, but the monster is like completely brand new, you know, so it's a really cool gig. I can't wait to see that. It's a fun, fun job. And now, they came to you or you go to them? Yeah, they approached me about doing something. They approached you? Mm-hmm. Now,
    19:59
    Now, you started doing the pinball stuff. How did that happen? Did Stern come to you, or did Metallica say, we want to do a pinball machine, and by the way, he's our artist? Well, the way it started, it kind of happened that way, but the way it started was with Tanya Kleiss, who now works at Stern Pinball, and Wade Krause, who's a really good friend of mine that I've been working with on projects, art projects. Wade and I, years back, I don't know the exact year. it could have been 2006, 2005, maybe, I can't remember what we did, the helicopters, custom pinball machine, so we took a kingpin game, wedge head, and completely stripped it, and built it back up with artwork, stenciling, screen printing, hand painting, and then I showed that to James Hetfield, and he's like, I want a Metallica one, and so we took an Earthshaker, and we did the same thing, and then we brought Tanya on board, and Tanya reprogrammed it and we put Metallica music in it much like you hear now in games but back then you didn't hear music in games because we were all like rock and roll metal music we like it's got to be in games you know like old music cool but having an actual band in a game is pretty when it's just you in the game and you can hear music it's pretty cool that game wakes you up in there when the music's on and they turn it off I was in earlier this morning and played first time I went to was the Metallica one because it was open and I love that you know, that, you know, he starts, he starts talking to you and the, the Metallica's ripping in and it's nice and loud, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wakes you up and pulls you into the game. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. So now, that was, after the Metallica game, we did a beatniks for a custom for his car club and then, you know, so I'd done, I'd done two, two machines for James with my, with my friends and, the, I guess, I don't know who approached too but, there was talk of a Metallica game, you know, being like the next game. And so the band, I know the band were like, you know, I'd been talking to Robert a little bit, and he's like, oh yeah, we want you to do it if it ever happens, you know. And then I got a call from Stern, and they were like, hey, you know, Metallica really wants you to do this game. And we would love to work with you. We've seen your work. We've been looking for an excuse to work with you. Sorry, I got a frog in my throat. And I'll have some more beer. and so that's how it happened and I got the gig and I was like yeah I totally want to do this like I'm you know I'm already a pinball we've had pinballs since we met we've had them in our living room and you know before we met I had them in my old house and I'm like yeah yeah that's crazy so now is it I know sometimes the creative process gets a lot more difficult when you're doing with someone doing it for someone else you know your vision is not going to quite look like what Metallica's is, let alone Stern's. So was it difficult for having three creative forces converging to squeeze one thing out? It's part of the deal.
    23:02
    It's become part of the deal. It's like you do your own vision, you do the best you can, but once things get changed and they're going to get changed, it's also making it just as cool making the change just as cool as the original idea keep the flavor use their ingredients kind of thing it's part of the deal it's really hard to do that it's really draining but it's so important that when it's finished even if four different people even if it's gone through 20 changes or whatever it's still got to look really cool it's the hard thing I'm really proud of the new one we'll talk about it after that's so beautiful I'm a graphic artist by trade and I always kind of say rule one is don't fall in love with your work because it's going to come back totally trash and you're going to have to start from scratch so I know you deal with that all the time I have to deal with that sometimes and sometimes I don't I'm prepared to deal with it but it's really nice I get to do my own posters in between these jobs. I mean, I'm able to, I'm at a point, it's really, really, really fortunate and really nice. I get to make my own schedule and stuff. So I'll make time to do a poster that I can bring to these shows and it's my own. The ones, the Blacklight posters, it's like totally my, and I mean, I could just do those and make a living on that, but I want to work with Stern. I want to work with bands. I want to, you know. You never know when the next call's going to come. Yeah, yeah, I want to do art for Snap-on. I like that. Now Snap-on, what are you doing with that? Because that's pretty cool. Well, they approached me, like one of my styles is like you know like we talk the kind of like weirdo style with you know that big head little body you know and for the most part I've become one of the go-to guys in the industry for that so Snap-on they basically wanted like you know like monsters driving hot rods to promote their power tools I'm like I can do it yeah I can do that you know yeah because that's so cool now that's I mean you know obviously I don't know I can't say he invented it but obviously Ed Roth kind of was that's the one I always think of whenever you think of that style like that just that crazy lunatic doing crazy stuff yeah yeah no Ed Roth was amazing you know and he was you know essentially I mean he was like the you know an art director you know and he hired the best in the industry to build brand new cars that didn exist all those cars he did and he hired the best artists to do the t And for his time he kicked a lot of ass He's an art director. He hired a bunch of people and made this vision happen. And that's what people see. They see mostly, it's like Rat Fink. There's a lot of guys doing that, though. There's like Stanley Mouse.
    25:53
    Oh, there's a big one that was with him. There's like Stanley Mouse. Bill Campbell did the Weirdos. There's a guy named Monty that did the decals. and Mr. Horsepower and he did a bunch of stuff and he was a guy that predated all those guys.
    26:07
    There's Ed Newton. There's Robert Williams who worked for Ed Roth. Robert Williams, he's a thing. Yeah, he almost became, Roth became like where people would go to Apprentice and then go off and do their own thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I actually think Ed Roth was only a few years, right? I mean, his,
    26:24
    that little thing he had going on didn't last very long. Yeah, it was about a decade and I know he got into the biker thing and then he got out of it, the whole thing, and then he went off to Knott's Berry Farm and started sign painting, which is another cool story. But when that happened, this studio called Roach Studios, there was this void, I guess, in that scene and they took over, but they also gave it a really cool 70s twist. I don't know if you've seen the Roach Studios stuff, but it's like what Roth would have done in the 70s but wasn't around. and it's all surfing and, like, you know, girls on roller skates and, like, the 70s culture, Vans. Oh, I know what you want to talk about. But it's Roach, and Roach hired, like, Ed Newton, who did all the drawings for Roth, all the rad cars, you know? Like, you know, Ed Newton's the best guy in the world at ever drawing those cars, you know? So when did you start drawing? Google all these names, by the way, if you're listening to the podcast. Like, check out the names of these people. These are the most influential people that ever hit the art world, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dig them up. Yeah, yeah, Norman Saunders, you know? so many people yeah the list kind of the digger the more you dig into these kind of things the more you realize like some of the stuff that was even being made you know 50s 40s even like some of that stuff is so cool like some of the plain art some of the stuff and you realize there's been this kind of really cool art culture forever it's just not in the history books you have to go find it you gotta go find it yeah there's a lot of these guys there's books out on them too so like Norman Saunders got a really good book he did a lot of like wacky packages, you know, the wacky packs and, you know, like Mars Attack, Mars Attacks.
    28:02
    Yeah, there's so many cool artists out there. So when did you start drawing? Was this, could you always draw? Like, were you, I know some people are very talented and just seem to be born with it and some have to work like crazy at every turn to be good at art, you know. I don't actually draw. My wife draws it all. It's her. his parents have a picture up in their house of like art that he did when he was like in kindergarten or I don't know like and it's like what do you want to be when you grow up and it says I want to fix dents in cars I want to train killer whales and I want to like it's really like yeah you did grow up to you know fix dents in cars and like play with lasers and drawn things.
    28:52
    He's living the dream. I think it's safe to say you're doing exactly what you're on to. That's a rarity. I could be a unicorn and that has not worked out very well. So sad.
    29:05
    Maybe one day. So now, what do you do? I mean, not what do you do. How many, do you have one book or how many books do you have now?
    29:16
    I've got a, sorry, this is my second book. and what was the first one? the first one was called Monster Revolt it was basically the first ten years of my career in California oh cool that was a lot of Metallica influence because you were doing that kind of stuff with them yeah there's like a Metallica chapter in it and it's the first stuff I did for Metallica featured my guitar picks, guitars for Metallica and stuff for James had a lot of just everything I did back then yeah yeah yeah it was super fun I learned a lot doing the book I had Dan Stoner and Brian from Garage Magazine Brian Bounds do the design and help me with the writing and we put together a really nice package you know I learned a lot I was able to another guy that helped me was Frank Kozik the artist he helped me a lot with that book and his wife Sharon took a bunch of photos for it and Frank was just like a really good help and the guy's done like so much you know he's like the Warhol of our time you know you don't realize how much goes into some of that stuff you think oh it's just a book you just put your posters in there and off you go people do that they just kind of whip it together here's my book ta-da it's like well never going to spend my money on this yeah yeah yeah totally it's so important that if you do something it's going to be around it's going to outlive you and it's going to be around forever and people are going to get it and you just want I don't know you just want to do your best you know you're presenting your work and it's got to like so with this book I designed it myself within design and I went out and I hired photographers. I had everything shot professionally. I went to New York City and hooked up with Ricky Powell from the Beastie Boys, the Beastie Boys photographer, and I had Ricky shoot my photo of me. And we actually became buds, and we ended up doing some art projects together. That's like another story, but super cool guy, like super fun dude. He's actually coming to my book signing in San Francisco. Paps is going to fly him out. He's going to do his hip-hop photography slideshow. And if you're listening to this, check out, like, Ricky Powell, the Lazy Hustler. He's got really good mixtapes on, I believe it's SoundCloud. And, yeah, you would look up The Good Life, Ricky Powell mixtapes, and it's just amazing. It's super cool. And that's currently? Yeah, he's currently doing that. Oh, okay, cool. He's working with a DJ in New York City, DJ Smokes, LES, and they're doing, like, really cool funky jazz, and then Ricky pops in and does talking, and it's really funny and cool. And he's on Instagram, too. He posts a lot of photos. Famous photographer, really funny guy. See, that's one of the hardest parts for me. I have a lot of dumb other things that I do. The podcast is one thing I'm doing. Starting up silk screening stuff. The hardest part for me is the online stuff. I can build anything. I can do anything. But that stuff is like a world that doesn't make sense to me. The Instagram and the Facebook. I don't know how it naturally comes to you, but I can't ever seem to get into the habit of just... I'm pretty good at promoting myself, and I have help from her.
    32:17
    Yeah, but it's not like, I mean, now that whole world is all about Instagram influencers and who has the most followers and stuff. It's hard to... It's very difficult for me. Unless you're doing that full-time, it's really hard to keep up with that full-time. So you do a part. You do a lot of giveaways on there and stuff. But, you know, I mean, your time is better spent working, and your time is better spent working and chasing the next million followers on Instagram. This is a genius behind, you know, this is like what I do, you know, it's like the voice of reason, you know. If she wasn't around then, I would have blown all, you know, like my money to make merch, it would have been all on t-shirts, which don't sell at all. Exactly. They sell, but they don't, it's just like you're always like, it's just t-shirts are like so hard. She's like, stop doing t-shirts. I'm like, but I want to do a shirt. You could play a click farm to get you an extra 100,000 followers. There you go. They're not true followers. They're just like, you can play your statistics, but that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like to keep it organic. You have one finger in the social media bucket, but voting too much time to it. So now, your posters are incredible, and that's one of the things. the first time I saw some of your posters I was just floored with the colors and the vibrancy how do you keep do you work with the silkscreeners or do you take what you have to them and say duplicate this exactly because those ones that you have at the show this week are those black light with chrome and the colors are vibrant and they're just the coolest things ever so how does that come about did you draw those and then say do this or do they help you or you know yeah no it's my one thing I'm trying to do with this new poster series I say new I've actually been doing it for maybe about three years now but I start okay so Blacklight Rebellion trying to do blacklight posters bring that back excuse me in a new way like just with my art we'd have to start Spencer's again give it a blacklight yeah yeah yeah give it a blacklight twist but make a high end art print out of it and that's what these are beautiful high end art prints they're so gorgeous they're screen printed by Monolith Press in Oakland and my buddy Mouse has been my printer for, I don't know, eight or nine years now. He's been doing all my posters, and he does, like, Kozik. He does Paset. He does Alan Forbes. He does all the Bay Area guys, you know. He does, like, Eric Roper, I think, and he does, like, Skinner. Anyway, so he's the go-to guy, and, like, people are trying to, like, hey, where do you get your posters printed? I'm like, well, here's his number, but he's not taking anyone in, you know, so people are like, oh, he wouldn't let me in. Did you ever take him something that he went, you want what now? No, no, no. So, yeah, basically, like, I'm like, I'll draw it. I'll color separate it, and I'll give it to him. And then he'll sometimes be like, I have this new paper, or, you know, why don't we try this? But they're basically like, yeah, they're just really good screen printers. That's awesome. Yeah, I'll give them the color, tell them what colors I want. Okay, so it's coming from you, and you're just like, yeah, let's do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah. Sorry. Those are really, really funky. If you haven't seen them yet, make sure you go to DirtyDonnie.com and check out the poster series, because you'll be blown away by them. I mean, they're worth every penny. I'm like, wow. You know. Well, they resonate. Yeah, they resonate so deeply with, like, people that did shop at Spencer's or your head shop or whatever, and were like, I want that ice castle from my brother's wall, but like, now I'm an adult and I can have it for real. Yeah, exactly. Just make sure you take your coupon and spend way too much on framing, and then it's art. Yeah. Exactly. That's what I did with my 5, 6, 7, 8 posters. I spent $300 with a 60% off coupon. I'm like, crap. Yeah, man. Totally. Whatever. now I got some framed artwork you know no it's what's happening too it's like I'm meeting people that are like yeah I had one of those in the 70s or my older cousin had one in his basement you know and I want that on my wall now you know and it's like a lot of people are doing that they're framing them putting them in their game rooms and pretty cool yeah I guess I would love another cell another UFO for you honey thank you so yeah now how many of these kind of things do you do a year not a year how often do you do one of these fly to somewhere Oh, I mean, I probably do about 12 shows a year, I think, you know, and sometimes it'll be like two or three in a month and then I'll be off for a few months or sometimes it'll be like one month. Right now, my new book's coming out that we can talk about, but I've ramped up a kind of a mini tour, if you will. So from, I don't know, maybe September till Christmas, it's like, you know, pretty much on the road, you know, three times a month. Do you ever get sick of traveling? I get, I love it. It's so cool. I get a little tired you know I get a little tired but it's fun you know it's like a weekend and then you're home so when you go home do you ever think that soap is weird because it's not the little tiny soaps it's like a big sized soap you're like this soap is weird I can't hold it right like you used to hotel soaps so they're always falling out body wash yeah body wash there's like woman soap in my shower you know it's like oh what's this woman product I can jam on Dirty Donnie smells so I don't know, my business trips aren't going, you know, flying around to pinball conventions and playing games, but for a weekend. It's pretty fun. Yeah, exactly. It's a pretty choice business trip. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Write it off. There you go. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Now, what kind of different shows have you been to? Have you ever told me when I was a kid, like, hey, people are going to pay for you to fly around the world? And, you know, they'll be like, wow, yeah. So you did say around the world. Where have you been? Where has this taken you? Japan, Buenos Aires, Canada.
    38:00
    Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would assume mostly... We'll have a Europe trip coming up in the next, like, probably 16 months. Yeah, we've been planning, but we've been talking about Europe for a little while. Very cool. And then definitely, like, Australia at some point. Just hitting wherever you can get to. Yeah, yeah, basically. Yeah we see what happens in the next couple of years And then they So this kind of thing they fly you in they set you up everything all squared away and you give you a spot Yeah that generally how it works yeah They bring you out as a guest and when the pinballs come out there's usually a flyer, and I'll sign some flyers. Did you do the Pabst Blue Ribbon can crusher? I did the Pabst Blue Ribbon can crusher. If you don't know what that is, me too. If you don't know at home, Pabst Blue Ribbon has commissioned a pinball machine from Stern for their, it's theirs, they sell it, not Stern. It's called the Can Crusher, you know, and I think it features your van, is that correct? It's my van, yeah, yeah. So, after the Aerosmith Pinball, I did the Can Crusher artwork and they asked me, they're like, hey, our ideas are it's going to feature Red Fang, the band, and we'd like to have like a party scene with a custom band and maybe some motorcycles and I'm like, I got this, I got it. Right here. This is what I do anyway. This is my driveway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, I have a van too. You're like, let me save you a few bucks. What's up, man? Yeah.
    39:23
    Now, as part of this deal, you get one of these machines, right? Yeah, I do. I was going to say, I write that into the contract. I'm like, there's no way I would design a Metallica or a Cancrusher and not have those. Yeah, you have to have a game.
    39:35
    I've been fortunate enough to be doing these games, and it's just really, really fun to have it. I'm trying to figure out if I'm more astonished at that or that you have a house in San Francisco that can hold a pinball machine. San Francisco I was going to say I can't envision owning something that big in San Francisco I thought everything was very expensive and very small very expensive, yes and not huge but that's why we can only keep four in the living room at any time yeah, we collect a lot of stuff too so we have to draw a limit to it we don't really need a dining room so we turn that into the record room man cave lounge The whole house is like a collector. No kids. Yeah, we don't have kids. There's lots of room. We have a wall of records. Our living room has, I think, 3,000 records. Yeah, there you go. All cool stuff, all punk and crazy stuff. And some classics. And one pinball machine. I only have one pinball machine, but then I fix them up and sell them. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we cycle through, too. Yeah, I just sold Twilight Zone and Elvira. We just sold Elvira. But, you know, you mentioned, like, getting a game with every gig, and, like, that's part of the contract usually, and so now we're kind of... We have three, you know, soon. That are just yours, that are just... So it's like we can't really collect anything else. We can't sell those, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because we're shipping them to our parents' houses. That's awesome.
    41:07
    Where did you grow up, if you don't mind me asking? Oh, I grew up in upstate New York, but moved to San Francisco about 15 years ago when we met. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. So my parents always wanted to live where the Federation was founded, so we came to San Francisco.
    41:24
    Very cool. Trekkie nerds will get what I'm saying. Then I was like, oh, I bet you I think I know. It took me a while. My brain's not quite as crisp as it used to be. Yeah, I grew up in a family of Trekkies, and he's a Star Wars. I'm a Star Wars, too. keeps it interesting. Do you travel to different kinds? Obviously, I wouldn't think there would be enough just pinball places that you would go to. Well, there are now. It's crazy, man. Oh, is there? Oh, yeah. There's three going on. Actually, there's three going on right now. There might be four in the U.S. that I know of. I know that there's one in, well, there's Pacific Pinball going on right now in the Bay Area. And there's, I think, it's the Houston Pinball Expo is going on right now, too. both have been guests at and both wanted me to come but I'm like Florida got me in the spring they're like hey we want you to you know we worked this out like months ago so I was like sorry guys I'm like these guys got me yeah yeah what other kinds do you go to car shows do you go to we used to do a lot of car shows we don't anymore do a lot of art shows man pinball is you know like kind of the main deal pretty passionate man you would think it's not big enough but it really is I mean, the scene is so huge, and there's those diehards that have been a part of it for, you know, many years. It's been gaining momentum. I would say that. It's growing, yeah, yeah, with all the barcades popping up. People bringing their kids, or just, like, you know. These are happening big time now, and it's a breath of fresh air. It's amazing. It's like, I'd rather actually be here with my people, like, you know, playing pinball than, you know, car shows are awesome. But, you know, they're usually, like, out in the parking lot. They're hot and sweaty, and it's like, you know, it's just like, you know, there's, like, a hundred other artists. and you're just like, it's, yeah, it's kind of, we did a lot of them so I'm kind of like, you know, I'm not saying they're bad, I'm just saying I'm kind of like, I'm a little bit sick of it and plus also like, it's just, I don't know, things are cool now. Well, they're different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, we went to one called Greaserama up in Kansas City which is a cool event but it was hot, I think I got sunstroked and then it was like, it was, you know, it was kind of, it was a tough scene, it was three days and I was like, oh, it'll be punk rock and old cars but the bands weren't really featured or anything like that and so it was kind of yeah you know what's cool about these shows is like there's not a level of pretentious pretentiousness that is often accompanied by like specialty or niche things you know like people are just cool just come and hang out and play your pinballs come have some drinks and totally totally a little bit more uh more cool yeah this is yeah yeah it's just it's Fun. Yeah.
    44:06
    Sorry. Don't be sorry. No, no, no. I'm surprised. I'm kind of like, all this stuff's going through. So we do a podcast called Slow Robot a Go-Go that does all B-movie review. Oh, yeah. So once a week, we watch two different B-movies. Oh, cool. And they're crazy. We watch the craziest stuff from the 60s, 70s, 80s, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that kind of stuff. So, you know, I'm always, now I'm thinking, because I know Kirk, he's huge in that stuff, you know. Yeah, yeah. and just how much art is influenced by that stuff too have you ever seen Foo Bar have you seen Foo Bar the movie no you have to watch Foo Bar home country it's from Canada friends of mine Paul and Dave they did a movie in 2001 I think it was called Foo Bar and it was about two like metalheads it came out around the same time as Trailer Park Boys and it was it's very similar but it's not like nobody ripped anyone off they just that came out as a show yeah and theirs was a movie and we did a second movie a few years ago and one of the characters I'm not sure exactly what's happening but it got picked up so it's going to be like I think a show happening soon and anyways yeah check it out yeah it's really good if you want to review weird stuff that's a great one the sea of weirdness doesn't seem to end yeah you know me and the other guy I do they're always trying to one up each other finding the weirder thing you know so we got this stuff and he'll dust off something from the 40s and I'll be like, how did this get made in the 40s? We're all bad ass now and there's some weird movie that he'll find and I'll be like, wow. They already did it. They did it ten times worse.
    45:43
    The great grandparents totally were way gnarlier. I'm trying to think of, I don't want to say where are you going to go next because that's so stupid and doesn't make any sense.
    45:54
    What do you have next coming up? Do you have another machine or are you going to just focus on... Well, I mean, it's funny because I spent the last year, I started around this time last year. No, actually even before, in the summer of 2015, I started working on my book. And that's when I, you know, I'm like, I'm going to get Ricky Powell to shoot my image for the book. And that's going to be just like the style of like having him be part of it and then have different friends, you know, write for it. So I started working on the book. And then I also started working on Aerosmith, which was a total secret, you know, at the time. And I worked on that, the coloring book, the book, Aerosmith, Pinball, and the Can Crusher. all up until, you know, for about a year. And then I did a few posters in between. And so I spent the whole year, you know, basically up until a few months ago, just getting all this going that I couldn't show anybody or couldn't release until now. So here's the book. The book has the Aerosmith art. It's the official teaser.
    46:50
    Stern Pinball signed off on it. It's the official teaser of the book. It's all happening right now, all the work I did for a whole year. So now I'm touring, and I'm sort of like slowly, Maybe take a deep breath after a second or two.
    47:03
    Maybe a holiday season away from work. Can you even take off from work? Yeah, we do. I know some artists say, I'm going to take off from work. And then they spend their free time drawing. They're trying to think of their next thing. They're already working. They can't turn their brain off. When Doug took time off last time, he built a life-size console for his new carbonite.
    47:27
    Oh, yeah, yeah. the hallway, so he doesn't really take time off. But that's like a fun project. That's just like cool stuff. When I take time off, I'm watching Netflix marathons.
    47:37
    You're like, I'm just going to film this awesome thing. That's so cool. The hobbies never end, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright, I guess that's going to be it for the interview.
    47:48
    Again, make sure you go to DirtyDonnie.com I'll get it out eventually. My brain's already like, it's been a long weekend. DirtyDonnie.com yeah bye don't just go I'm gonna oh my god this is audio format make sure you don't just go there but you know send some love buy something money's good for people that need money which is all of us you know San Francisco ain't cheap brother it's cool man you know people buy stuff but that means I can make new stuff so it's you know just you know it keeps it moving you know you got anything else you want to tell everyone the whole world man well new books out right now Pinball Wizards, Black Lightning Stories. It's on my site. It's all over Amazon and the web. New pinball's coming out. I'm going to be, hopefully, at a city near you. Make sure you see him. Thank you for having me on your show. And not to make you all jealous, but I got a signed copy of his book. So, aha on you. Thanks. That's going to be it for this week. We'll be back next week with more indie music. And probably not Dirty Donnie because I don't think he's going to come by to do an interview every week. But you never know. All right. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. was BSing and just having some beers and hanging out. Really cool guy. His site is up. He's actually been doing a lot more on social media. He's doing a lot of YouTube stuff. He has, I think, Dirty Donnie TV on YouTube.
    49:39
    But make sure you check him out and hopefully you enjoyed it. I know it ran a little long and now I'm adding to that by talking more. I don't know what that's about. But I hope you've enjoyed this episode. The first interview episode of Boghorn Leghorn Presents the Pinball Junk Drawer. I'll probably be back. I think what I'm going to do probably next week, or the next one I do, not next week. I don't know what cadence I'm going to release these on. It might be in every other week kind of a thing. It might be, who knows. I generally like to use, I generally like to do shows in the same cadence. So people start saying, well, every two weeks we're probably going to get another one of these, or every week we're going to get another one of these. So once I start going and once it starts rolling, I usually stick to them pretty good.
    50:28
    Yeah, that's going to be it for this week. Next week I'll probably – or the next show will probably just be me talking. Maybe I'll just pull a random subject in the pinball universe like pricing or something. I don't know. I'll just BS about it a little bit. And then I'll prep out some of these other interviews. And I have some new interviews on the horizon. Some – you never know what's going to happen. Wackiness. Well I say folks That's all folks I'll see you next week Same bat chime That's all folks That's it man Game over man Game over