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Exclusive Interview with Eric Meunier | Inside the Making of JJP’s Harry Potter Pinball

Gonzo's Pinball Flipperama·video·1h 6m·analyzed·Jun 8, 2025
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TL;DR

Eric Meunier reveals Harry Potter pinball's design philosophy, licensing origin, and multi-tier approach.

Summary

Eric Meunier, lead designer of Jersey Jack Pinball's Harry Potter machine, discusses the game's conception, design philosophy, and reception in an interview with Gonzo's Pinball Flipperama. The game took nearly two years of full-time development after JJP secured the license, and was inspired by Warner Bros.' request to match the quality of JJP's Hobbit game. Meunier emphasizes inclusive design balancing casual and competitive play, world-centric playfield mechanics (like the rotating staircase), and character representation across all eight films.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack Pinball secured the Harry Potter license after Warner Bros. executives saw The Hobbit in their lobby and requested similar quality treatment

    high confidence · Eric Meunier describing the licensing origin story at WB office in Burbank

  • Eric Meunier spent nearly two years in full-time development on Harry Potter, with Jack securing the license 10 years prior

    high confidence · Eric Meunier's opening remarks about development timeline

  • The game features 15+ different scenes per movie mode with 2-3 shots each, all synced with audio/video assets

    high confidence · Eric Meunier explaining movie mode structure and accessibility design

  • The rotating staircase creates 13 different ball paths and enables world-centric design connecting all eight films

    high confidence · Eric Meunier discussing staircase mechanism and Keith Johnson's game design influence

  • All three editions (Arcade, Wizard, Collector's Edition) share identical playfield gameplay; only cosmetic differences exist

    high confidence · Eric Meunier explaining tier strategy and decision to keep playfield consistent

  • Arcade Edition is positioned under $10,000 price point to attract operators and expand location placement

    high confidence · Eric Meunier on pricing strategy and operator acquisition

  • Eric attended Texas Pinball Festival 2023 after taking a red-eye from Burbank, where he had to keep the Harry Potter deal confidential

    high confidence · Eric Meunier recounting the timing of WB meeting and immediate trip to festival

  • Quidditch mode features position-based scoring multipliers: Beater (10k points per Quidditch point) vs. Seeker (300k points per Quidditch point)

    medium confidence · Eric Meunier describing Quidditch scoring system, noting 'numbers might not be right'

Notable Quotes

  • “this is my dream theme. I've been thinking about this game for years. And when it actually came, it's all already here. I just need to spit it out on the table and then put it into CAD and make a great game.”

    Eric Meunier@ 4:53 — Establishes Meunier's lifelong passion for Harry Potter and explains the depth of preparation he brought to the WB meeting

  • “we picked the right company to do this. It's clear you guys have passion and you care and you're not just going to churn out another game and slap a Harry Potter sticker on the playfield and move on.”

    Warner Bros. executive (paraphrased by Eric Meunier)@ 5:37 — Reflects WB's confidence in JJP after seeing Meunier's preparedness and passion

  • “I don't want to put any characters on the back burner. How do I get every character that every person has an attachment to into this game?”

    Eric Meunier@ 18:24 — Explains the philosophy behind comprehensive character inclusion across movie modes

  • “if someone can't shoot which a lot of people can't shoot there they play whack-a-mole right how do they still get to experience these scenes”

    Eric Meunier@ 19:49 — Demonstrates inclusive design approach for casual/non-pinball fans attracted to the theme

  • “There are people who love Potter who are not millionaires that can just, oh, it's only 15,000? Give me three. It's like, no, this is a $10,000 game.”

    Eric Meunier@ 22:28 — Reveals motivation for Arcade Edition pricing strategy to expand market access

  • “anytime a single shot can go different places it allows the programmer to tell different stories, right?”

Entities

Eric MeunierpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyWarner Bros.companyJoe KatzpersonKeith JohnsonpersonRetro RalphpersonMike Nogleperson

Signals

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Harry Potter features 30-second scene timeouts that auto-advance without failure, allowing non-skilled players to experience character scenes without shooting proficiency; Quidditch position affects scoring multiplier (10k to 300k per point)

    high · Eric Meunier's detailed explanation of casual-friendly movie mode design; Quidditch position system scaled to reward skill without locking out casuals

  • ?

    community_signal: Eric Meunier brought pre-release game to his 11-year pinball league (20 close friends) for early feedback and playtesting; uses trusted friends rather than public forums for critical input

    high · Eric's detailed account of Friday night league playtest, emphasis on honest feedback from trusted sources, and avoidance of Pinside for personal feedback

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Pinside debate over designer responsibility to filter noise: concern that overwhelming negativity online may cause designers to ignore valid critical feedback mixed within criticism

    medium · Host citing anonymous Pinside post about risk of designers becoming 'deaf' to constructive criticism amid noise; advocates for in-person league testing as superior feedback mechanism

  • ?

    design_philosophy: World-centric playfield design (rotating staircase, Quidditch upper field, Death Eater sculpture) prioritized over movie-specific chunks to enable cross-film rule flexibility and character representation

    high · Eric Meunier extensively explained staircase design principle and rejection of movie-specific playfield zones; Keith Johnson's influence cited

  • ?

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.199

0:00
Good morning, good afternoon, and of course, good evening, wherever you may be in the world. I've got a couple of very special guests with me today, because today we're going to be discussing Harry Potter. Not in that accent for the whole duration of the podcast, to be pleased to know. Well, first of all, we've got the designer with us, who basically is the brains, the man behind this long-awaited harry potter pinball machine eric munier and we've got the thunder from down under that's enzo how are we going oh yeah good eric thank you for joining us thanks for having me guys well you must be thrilled uh but let me just before we before we discuss i don't want to tell i watched the feature i've watched everything actually i've watched the promo watched the featurette then what you uh you did a gameplay one which i think we've actually we've actually got a little bit of we'll share this with you and in a little while we'll bring this intermittently into the um into into the video but during the featurette eric told a lovely story and about why this is a dream theme before we hand the floor over to him just in case you didn't hear it it's a wonderful story so this is such a dream theme for eric that when the fifth book came out now you you may well remember this this was mayhem the last time i can ever remember people queuing outside the bookstore. Books are gone, it seems to be now. Nobody's doing this stuff anymore. Eric was 16. Yep. And he drove his girlfriend. He asked his girlfriend's parents' permission. His girlfriend is now his wife. It's a lovely story. And they drove over an hour and waited outside in a long line to get the fifth Harry Potter book. So, proof, if anyone needed, that this is a dream theme. Eric, congratulations, mate. Congratulations on what looks to be a really, really well-received game. Thank you. Thank you. It's, uh, I keep looking over cause the, the trailer is currently playing on my Hobbit right next to me. It'll probably pop up on the, on the games in the, oh, now it's on Toy Story. It's great. It's great to see it out in the wild, you know, something that we've been working on for almost two years. Um, you know, full, full time, almost two years, but, um, you know, it started, started so long ago, like 10 years, Jack has been trying to get this license and secure the license and it's uh i'm very excited i bet you are d and initially when you got the license you've been two years designing the game tell us a little bit as i understand it there was a story that you you had to go and meet warner brothers and things like that talk us through at the very start of the the whole concept and the whole the journey if you like sure so So we heard from one of our reps at WB that the Potter franchise team had come to Burbank, California to the Warner Brothers office. And as they're walking through the lobby, there are three pinball machines in their lobby that are Warner Brothers IP.

Eric Meunier (citing Keith Johnson)@ 25:31 — Core design principle influencing the staircase diverter and overall playfield architecture

  • “I wanted things that are in all of the movies... the grand staircase is this central piece of Hogwarts and it can be used to lead you anywhere in the castle”

    Eric Meunier@ 26:21 — Explains world-centric vs. movie-specific design philosophy enabling cross-film flexibility

  • “my daughter... she's numb to pinball... she phoned me up yesterday and she said dad harry potter pinball is that true... When are you getting one”

    Host (discussing daughter's reaction)@ 23:48 — Anecdotal evidence of the game's appeal transcending pinball enthusiasts to casual Harry Potter fans

    • Enzo
    person
    Stern (host)person
    The Hobbit (Standard Edition)game
    Texas Pinball Festival 2023event
    Pinsideorganization
    Pinball Heavencompany
    BearsFanperson
    Harry Potter Pinballgame
    Dumbledore's Armyproduct
    Order of the Phoenixproduct

    licensing_signal: Warner Bros. specifically requested treatment matching JJP's Hobbit game after seeing it in their Burbank lobby, leading to Harry Potter license acquisition after 10-year effort by Jack

    high · Eric Meunier's account of WB executives' reaction to seeing Hobbit in office lobby and directing request back to JJP

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball Heaven (UK distributor) reports strong sales performance on Harry Potter; hosts infer similar success globally based on distributor feedback

    medium · Host referencing Pinball Heaven's sponsor observations about sales; Enzo noting global discussion momentum

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Eric Meunier is passionate lifelong Harry Potter fan (drove 1+ hour at age 16 to buy book 5 midnight release with girlfriend, now wife); this emotional investment evident in design depth and WB meeting preparation

    high · Host's opening anecdote about book launch story; Eric's emotional delivery about theme being 'dream theme'; 7-day pre-WB meeting film marathon and notebook preparation

  • ?

    announcement: Jack (JJP owner) flying to UK on the 21st of the current month to promote Harry Potter; host planning to play and review game on Wednesday of following week

    high · Host and Enzo's discussion of upcoming UK trip and review timeline

  • ?

    product_strategy: Harry Potter available in three tiers with identical playfield but different cosmetics (Arcade $10k, Wizard ~$12k, Collector's Edition $15k) to expand operator and home collector market reach

    high · Eric Meunier's explicit discussion of tier strategy, emphasis on playfield consistency, and Arcade Edition targeting operators under $10k threshold

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong positive community reception across Pinside, YouTube (Retro Ralph), Facebook (Mike Nogle), and in-person play; minimal negativity compared to typical pinball announcements

    high · Multiple anecdotes about positive posts being forwarded to Eric; sales office overwhelmed; only acknowledges minor Pinside criticisms; Enzo emphasizes 'overwhelmingly positive' reception

    • 3:06
    There's a Hobbit. There's another game from another manufacturer and a third game from a third manufacturer. and they stopped as they're walking past this lineup of three games and they're they point at the hobbit and they say we need this kind of treatment done to our ip let's make this happen and jack got that call and said eric we've got a week they want a meeting with us to discuss what we'll do with their game with their ip and you know don't don't overwhelm them don't go crazy with all the pinball nerdy stuff don't go overboard right these are these are
    3:52
    not pinball people right these are people who just love the harry potter license okay i can i can cool it off for a bit and talk to them so i you know within the span of of those seven days i watched every film again including on the plane out to um out to warner brothers and i'm making notes i'm drawing sketches i'm conceptualizing play field and overarching themes for the game and how we would do this and we get into the meeting and they're like so
    4:30
    young man what do you think a good pinball machine would have what are some elements you think of that could be in this game. And I'm like, bam, here's my notebook. Here's the play field. Here's the rules. Here's the characters. Here's the sound assets. Here's the character. Here's the person we need to do the voice call. And they're like, you really love this, don't you? And I'm like, this is my dream theme. I've been thinking about this game for years. And when it actually came, it's all already here. I just need to spit it out on the paper and then put it into CAD and make a great game. That's incredible. I would imagine just, I mean, it's great to hear that. I'd imagine these licensing folk, they probably get a lot of people go into them with products. I'm not necessarily as brand as a pinball machine, could be a, I don't know, a lunchbox or something. We just want, we just want to put Hogwarts on it or we just want the Harry Potter thing. They're not that passionate about it. Jack had told you not to get excited. How did you feel they responded once they saw your enthusiasm? They were all in. They were like, we picked the right company to do this. It's clear you guys have passion and you care and you're not just going to churn out another game and slap a Harry Potter sticker on the play field and move on. Enzo, how have you... We've not spoken, apart from a little bit where we've spoken and said we're speaking to Eric. had a big chat about this game um how have how have you seen it uh it's been interesting because um over over here like everyone that's been talking about it it's been like i mean there's always there's always pinball launches right and it gets everyone together i feel this one's really gotten everyone together and it's been this huge you know because of the size of the rp obviously um it's been just an overwhelming like amount of discussion positivity very little negativity which is great to hear especially from me um and it's it's been something that you could just tell by looking at it and watching whether it was the trailer the teasers along before we got the trailer retro ralph's video um how much like passion has gone in it and then like even eric when you're the story about like chris said about the the drive to get the book and stuff you know it's like you're not crying i'm not crying you're crying and it's like you know this guy freaking loves this ip um and you can see it man the play field is like it's got heaps in it and obviously how much more can you put in it sure you could put a whole heap of more but and it's finding that balance you know that's one of the things i want to talk about with you as well is going like where's this balance how much what didn't go in you know what what did and etc etc but it it's it's been awesome like i can't tell you how many times i've viewed that um that trailer and uh also ralph's video as well so kudos to you but so where were you exactly when you found out because was this story about you being at expo or something or you're about to go to expo um i was about to go to Texas Pinball Festival in 2023. We had just launched Godfather and I took a red-eye from California, from Burbank, to TPF of 2023. So everyone's there, they're like, oh, we love Godfather, it's so cool, it's so awesome. What are you working on next? I'm like, I don't know yet. I haven't figured it out. When I just come from this meeting with WB where we locked in Harry Potter, man, And it's like the words just wanted to burst out of me. But got to play it cool.
    8:15
    Yeah, that's crazy. How hard is that in the build up to the release? And I mean, you know, this week. How hard is it? How exciting is it knowing that on this day, the teaser, it's not the teaser, the teaser trailer will drop. Then the featurette. That's got to be the best time for you, right, as a designer? it's well it's good and it's bad right it's it's always good because you're like i know i made a fun game i know i made a fun game the world's gonna see that too right it's like we we put everything we can into these things every part of ourselves goes into these and you know what is the world going to pick apart having never even played the game or heard it in person or seen the artwork there, you know, what sort of negativity is going to come from this.
    9:09
    But like you said, it's been very positive from all of the responses that we've seen. I'm fortunate enough to be, you know, right here, boots on the ground in the factory. And people, you know, the day of launch and the day after launch are just flocking to Jersey Jack, to our lobby where we have uh one of our games and people are playing it and they're blowing up great reviews on it um i was able to bring a game with me friday night to um my pinball league so
    9:48
    it's like you got connections we're gonna use them man and i'm not not selfishly right it's Like I've been in this league for 11 years now and one of the I'm one of the first members of it. And every one of the people in the league is just now, you know, a friend. And I'm just one of the guys when I'm there. I'm not some untouchable pinball designer. But let's be real. I'm not an untouchable pinball designer anyways.
    10:15
    It's great to just go there and hang out with friends and hear their reactions to the game. and some of these people you know i trust enough to bring them in early to sign non-disclosures and see the different the way that different talent levels ability levels skill levels can play the game and what they get out of it right and being able to see that reaction firsthand experience the game with them as they experience it for the first time really provides a lot of insight to me as a game designer. Did this person start a multi-ball? Did they understand what to do, how the flipper feeds work? And it's all just great feedback and the ability to have people that I can trust, that I consider friends come in and provide that feedback. And these are not guys that are going to blow smoke. They'll tell me if something's not good and what to fix on it and stuff like that. But everyone that came away loved it. And then just getting to be there Friday night with 20 of my close friends as they got to experience a game for the first time was a blast. How are you doing in your league? Well, I'm currently in first. There you go. It's because you used Potter. You said, we're only playing Potter tonight, guys, and I'm the man. I've got the inside info. It was just a party. weren't playing league for real. But most of the people there are, it's not a hyper-competitive league by any means. We're there to hang out and drink beers and talk. And there just happens to be pinball machines in the background. And it's a great situation. It's different than a lot of leagues where everyone's hyper-competitive and all you can't stand in my peripheral while I'm playing. Everyone's like, what happened? The ball got stuck? Fuck it, hit it. Let's keep moving on. hey let's do this uh this sounds fun sounds like pin fest over here actually oh yeah i know the sales are good because our channel sponsor there pinball heaven uh it's a uk distributor i know i know i know sales have gone well because yeah because uh that's so i i can only assume they've gone well everywhere else as well tell us so just just talk us through that that point where it drops and feedback starts to come in um that just just your first impressions of what people's feedback was how did how did that go because the feedback is good but how did that feel for you because that must have been you you said something quite telling earlier you said you wait and see if there's any negativity which that it's easy to focus on that stuff but honestly there's been you get them with every pinball announcer you get some negativity you just you're gonna you're gonna have that anyway but almost overwhelmingly even people that i think people say do you know what i i don't this is not my theme i've not but jjp i've knocked it out the park with this one i mean that must have been that must have been good when you started hearing that stuff coming back absolutely um you know some customers came by and and they were playing the game you know as i walked through the lobby and i'm like hey guys you know nice to meet you what do you think how's it going i had no idea that they were making posts on pin side and that they're on pinside all the time and again i'm not fishing for compliments or anything it's just great to be able to see people playing the game and talk them through it and and that guy and his son posted this excellent review that someone someone forwarded over to me because i don't spend a lot of time on pinside not really a healthy place to be if you're not great a great right yeah um and then mike nogle one of our distributors came by and he posted a great review on uh his facebook channel again someone sent it over to me and i read it and i'm like well damn i guess we did do well all right this is this is great you know people are experiencing the game for the first time and falling in love with it and it's it's awesome and then being in the the sales office right on opening day and i'm like so how are things going and the salesperson she's like I'm going crazy. I can't keep track of all this. And I'm like, yeah.
    14:28
    Yeah, that's good. Overwhelmingly positive. I mean, I'll save you. So when you said you got sent that video, was that the guy and the boy that were in the car?
    14:43
    I saw the, I just saw the, I think his handle is BearsFan. He posted a picture of himself. with me and with Joe and with his son in front of the game. I don't know if I saw one in the car. Something kicked off on Pinside. It doesn't matter. But I'll save you because you're right. But I want to make the point. I've read the Pinside thread right up until about half an hour ago at this point recording this. And somebody made a really, really good point on there, which was people can be so critical of pinball. It's the same everywhere, by the way. I'm on camera forums. And believe you me, Someone that has Nikon cameras doesn't like somebody that likes Canon cameras. It's the same. It's just the world and it's the Internet. But somebody had put on a said the thing that worries me is sometimes there is so much negativity online that maybe the pinball designers get deaf to it. And somebody might come up with a really, really important observation. But because everything starts getting viewed as hate, it's very, very hard to absorb that. So I think it's so important with you, with your league meeting team, that you've actually got people that can be honest with you. And that's the best kind of market research that you can sit in there, crack open a few beers and actually just just play this thing. But just for a pass over to Enzo, I watched the. So the first the first video was you got the three, the three folks, they're walking in there, they discuss the game. You only ever see a little bit of the game. You never really see the game in full, I feel, until the featurette. So the initial one is leaving you leaving you wanted more. The camera never stays on any mechanism or any shot for too long. So I want to see more. I want to see more of this. The featurette gives you that.
    16:26
    And after I watched the featurette, then I watched your gameplay one where you were narrating at the start of it. I just came to the conclusion that it is a pinball machine but this this is an occasion And I just I thought of that when you said that you walked through the Warner Brothers lobby and they said, we want to give it this treatment, because I do think that's what this is. I think it's a celebration to Harry Potter, which I know, you know, is going to mean an awful lot to you. So, yeah, absolutely amazing. Enzo, I know you've got a ton of questions. Yeah, I mean, obviously knowing how passionate this theme, you are with this theme and everything, I guess the thing for me when it comes to obviously, you know, you're a pinball designer and like what was out of eight films, non-negotiable, had to be in the game. I know I've heard you talk about the tree and the car, but like were there things that had to be in and things that you just couldn't get in? Like talk me through that process because it's got to be not only as a pinball designer tough but if you really like the rp that's even tougher right right like how was that determining because obviously you said you drew it for warner brothers kind of quickly as well so you already knew right but we like i'm assuming you've got most of what you wanted in there definitely um you know one of the one of the big driving factors for me was knowing the importance of the license to me and the characters that i love from the license There are characters that all walks of life connect with, right? And I wanted to make sure that none of those characters weren't there, right? Like, my sister absolutely loves Dobby, and co-worker loves Luna, and there's people who love Sirius, and who love Dumbledore, and who love Snake. It's like, I don't want to put any characters on the back burner. How do I get every character that every person has an attachment to into this game? And that's how we developed the movie modes for the game, right? You want to be able to show any scene that includes the characters that people love, which is why, you know, you can choose, you shoot the scoop, you can choose from the six movies, the first six movies, and each one of those is a mode but as we do at jjp it's it's a lot of mode each movie is broken down into 15 or more different scenes and each scene is two to three shots and every one of those scenes has synced audio and video assets and rules that you're going for And again, it's not crazy and convoluted. Like I said, two to three shots and you complete that scene. But walking through, you know, that there are going to be people who haven't played pinball before that are going to be interested in this because they're Potter fans. how do I make sure those people can still experience these characters and still experience this gameplay so working with Joe Katz the lead programmer on the project how do we make it so if someone can't shoot which a lot of people can't shoot there they play whack-a-ball right how do they still get to experience these scenes and so the rule and again trying to make family-friendly, trying to make casual-friendly gameplay, if you can't shoot whatever shot, but that's the mode shot, eventually that mode time's out. You only get 30 seconds for each scene. And then you don't fail and start over. It just moves on to the next scene. So you still get to experience these things, even if you're not making the accomplishments and achieving the shots, you still experience. Now, if you do... accomplish those shots you're building a value and these modes can be crazy valuable i mean i think joe and i played a game where all we did was focus on the movie modes we put up like 800 million you know like this is a massive if you can string these things together you build a bucket you build a multiplier for every consecutive scene you complete the fun is there for the pinball enthusiasts, right? And the players who hunt for high scores, but it's also there for the casuals who don't have that skill or ability or even patience to try to figure that sort of stuff out. They're still going to get to experience their characters and their creatures and their scenes that they remember and they love.
    21:17
    I was blown away by the fact that every arcade edition, the Wizards edition, and the collector's edition, amazing. How was that decision to actually think, we're going to just keep this play field the same? I know that the CE has got some glitter under the clear coat, but I thought that was actually incredible. So if you just get that arcade, okay, you're not going to get the bling because that's really what we're talking about, but you're still going to get to enjoy exactly the same game. Talk us through that process because I think it's an incredible decision because again i'm watching i'm looking online and i'm saying seeing people say well i can't afford the the collector's edition but i'm going to go in um for an arcade edition and they're not feeling they're getting any lesser game because they're not getting any lesser game i think it's a really really good well a good decision and a good market employee really yeah we you know we're looking to grow our customer base um and this is again it's something that I was very passionate about. There are people who love Potter who are not millionaires that can just, oh, it's only 15,000? Give me three. It's like, no, this is a $10,000 toy. It's not something most people in the world can just grab at a whim.
    22:45
    I wanted it to be the best gameplay experience possible, even if you're buying the $10,000 version. So there's a lot of back and forth we wanted to put our best foot forward even in the arcade setting when we are you know we're looking to expand that area for jersey jack as well because our products are a premium product and not as many people route these games um but if we can get in at the under ten thousand dollar mark operators are more likely to purchase these and put them on their floor and see what sort of revenue that our games can make on location and especially with an ip like this that everyone in the world knows everyone's going to walk up and put a dollar into and then let's make sure the playfield features are there to capture their interests and so they put another dollar in yeah well my daughter my 20 year old daughter there's no interest in pinball at in fact she's numb because of me she's numb to pinball she's numb to it and she doesn't live she doesn't live here anymore she's she's gone she's flown the nest uh she phoned me up yesterday and she said dad harry potter pinball is that true i mean she's never phoned me up about pinball before so and i said yeah yeah absolutely so when when when when are you getting one um i'm actually i'm actually going to play on tuesday wednesday yeah wednesday of next week so i'll try and get the review up um on the day and then we've got jack is flying over to uh to the uk to see us on the 21st of this month so enzo enzo enzo before we recorded this podcast you gave me a list of questions you had so many questions why don't you start firing those off because you say it was like well we yeah we were speaking about the playfield and stuff obviously like that the mechanism with the the turning staircase right where that alone gives you like 13 ball paths that's like how did you get to that because obviously we know that's uh it's not a huge part of the film but it's there always in the background like everyone knows that staircase is the first thing the kids kind of interact with and then obviously that is what's going to allow you to get to the other remaining how many 48 ball paths or whatever right like was that something that you guys had to you knew that you had to put in something like that to get all these ball paths in it's something that i've always put in a lot of my game in all of my games right um and it's kind of a lesson that early on talking to keith johnson on game design and game rule layout um you know keith has done so many great games and he's such a good player and he understands rules in a way that you know he's a great resource to have and to discuss pinball theory with but he said a couple times anytime a single shot can go different places it allows the programmer to tell different stories, right? It allows a programmer to use those diverters in a way to put the ball somewhere else and keep the player, you know, interested in the new ball paths that can exist. So the staircase and kind of the overall design concepts of this game is I wanted there to be world-centric, Harry Potter world-centric items, not specific movie, right? Like I didn't want a Chamber of Secrets and a Shrieking Shack and the Quidditch World Cup. I didn't want those different chunks of the play field. I wanted things that are in all of the movies. so the grand staircase is this central piece of of hogwarts and it can be used to lead you anywhere in the castle um and so that's where we can all the different rules that we're creating it's like if it's something that has to do with hogwarts or exploring hogwarts we can use the staircase uh if it's something to do with bad guys or death eaters well we can use the death theater sculpture. If there's something to do with Quidditch or flying, we can use the upper play field. So giving the programmers the ability to be able to create a rule and then, oh, I can tag it to this part of the play field. I can tag it to this part of the play field. It allows that versatility for world-centric items versus movie-specific items. Well, if it's a Chamber of secrets. I can only use it in movie two. And then I guess at the climax of movie eight would be the only two scenes that it would be usable. But here we can use almost all of the play field for every movie and walk through the scenes. So having allies, right, is a big part of this. There's the Dumbledore's army, and then there's also the Order of the Phoenix. So anytime those characters appear in the movies, it's like, okay, we'll shoot their shot. They're over here on the right hand side or on the inner orbit and then we can divert those shots to hold them and or move them and they can come somewhere else as a as a more interesting gameplay dynamic the upper play field the quidditch looks superb um it's always hard to note i've not played the game yet so i but i immediately gravitated towards that the tick so the elevated shot just takes it up which makes absolute sense this is quidditch and it's up in the air they're up in the sky but i'm not a pinball designer once i saw it i thought that makes sense but i don't think i've ever thought of it okay once you once you've seen it well that's exactly what's going to happen it should be at the top and then it should sort of spiral um an absolute triumph there's a bit much feedback to the upper playfield yet because that looks brilliant um on friday night when i was playing it with my buddies uh they were all loving it and the two shots uh that are up there there's a loop back and spin around and then there's an orbit shot there um those are both repeatable yeah so i mean i watched a guy and it was his first time up to the game and he had a five shot combo up there and it just it's so fast um but my favorite shot in the game this is probably hard to see from a lot of the pictures but maybe you guys can pull it up. There's a third shot there on the upper playfield and that shot is off the very tip of that upper flipper and it actually feeds to the main ramp and so you can shoot off the upper playfield onto the main ramp and it goes into the staircase Are you doing that Enzo? Yeah I don't This is a fix.
    29:39
    I thought I lost control. I don't know if Joe did it in this game or not, but it's one of those, like, the geometry will work, and I want to make it work, and then we need to celebrate that shot and make someone feel like they're the best pinball player in the universe when they make it. So, you know, what we're looking at, I think, is .71 code. um still lots more choreo to come but there's that's a really fun shot and for me it makes me feel like i'm the best player who's ever lived when i make that shot it's so cool so that's with the with the quidditch so you i remember reading somewhere or hearing that when you get up there depending on how well you do straight away you qualify for the team and if you do well and you qualify high your scoring is higher is that correct yes that is correct um so there's again theme integration eric i care so much about um and then how to tie that into players who care about their pinball score but don't necessarily know anything about potter it's like make the meld of those work together so first time you go up to the upper play field you are earning your position on the Quidditch team. And if you go up there and you just flub and you don't do anything, you are awarded the position of beater. And these are the guys that fly around with bats and try to whack a ball at other players and knock them off their broom. They're not the most technical players on the Quidditch pitch, but they're required to make the game play in an interesting way. Then there are chasers. Those are the people who tuck the ball under their arm and fly try to shoot it through the goal and of course you have your keeper um who's probably the second most important person on the team and then of course the seeker which is the position that harry plays is the person who goes after the golden snitch so based on how well you do the first time you go up there there are objectives um to see and it's probably right at the beginning of joe's game you can see the ui of of quidditch you've got objectives up there you're trying to complete them and if you do them all you get to earn the position of seeker yeah yes you're awesome you're the best right so what that turns into from a pinball perspective and the numbers might not be right so as far as exactly how i say them but like the beater you'll earn about 10 000 points for every Quidditch point you score in the game, versus the Seeker, you'll earn 300,000 points for every Quidditch point you score in the game. And so Quidditch points are scored. When you're in a match, every shot on goal gives you 10 Quidditch points, which is just the way that Quidditch works in Potter. And if you catch the snitch, you get 150 points. So if you get up there and you become a seeker and you've set yourself up for success in Quidditch, so then at the end of the game, all of your Quidditch points are totaled and dumped into your bonus, but only at the end of the game. So do not tilt your last ball because you get disqualified from Quidditch if you do But then one added element that I really wanted to put into the game is there a Quidditch house cup that gets awarded to whichever house at Hogwarts had the best Quidditch play that year now what we wanted to do is take that and turn it into the quidditch player cup so that whichever quidditch whichever pinball player had the best quidditch scoring throughout the four-player game or two-player game or what have you they get an extra award at the end so you get your quidditch points bonus and then whoever scored the most quidditch points also gets the quidditch trophy for an extra, I think it's like 5 million points. So on Friday, one of my friends was playing with his 8-year-old, and the 8-year-old had done more Quidditch than him. So end score showed, you know, dad in the lead, and then son trailing by like 2 million points. And then the Quidditch trophy got awarded, boom, gave him 5 million, jumped him up against above old man. And they're like, what? So, yeah, it could be a lucrative point opportunity if you focused on Quidditch in a game.
    34:42
    So the other thing I noticed at the top, which I don't think I've seen anyone really talk about, but on that upper play field, there's two captive balls with energy posts. Yeah. That loop around. No one's spoken about that. I'm like, so what's that? What is that like part of? So, thematically, those are your bludgers. And a bludger is a magical ball that flies around and tries to knock people off their broom. The posts that you hit are your beater bats. So the position that a player can take is a beater. The tool they use is a beater bat, which whacks the bludger at other people. So these are our bludgers and our beater bats. And if you hit that post with your pinball, there's a mini pinball sitting at the top of it. And it's like a Newton ball. The post transfers energy into the ball and it zings back on that track. And then there's a sensing post in the rear that can determine if you hit it. And we'll give you points and more choreo to come. But yeah, that's the theme integration there. So we have all of the Quidditch positions accounted for. So we've got beaters, we've got a keeper. Of course, we've got the chasers who are throwing the balls on to goal. And then the seeker catching the cinch. So these posts here that you can just hit. Yeah. And these two captive balls, are they gold like little snitches or not? They are a bludger. So no, they're silver balls. Silver balls, yeah, yeah, yeah. but then there's a post in the back so that the balls stay in their own track they can't cross over but there's a post there in the back that um they run into that's a great spot and so that i did not know i did not know this at all i've watched pretty much i'm claiming that one because i don't think a lot of people have either that's really good yeah what nice little details there's obviously going to be more and more things that people are going to discover the more they the while they play the game i'm liking this um sort of side mission aspect of it yeah uh something funny enough somebody said on our on our uk forum as actually a friend of mine andy posted on the uk forum today on pinball info that there's something you guys do really really well is chart the progress on the screen yeah um i i'm actually in awe of jjp screens and i don't have a jjp game yet and this this one will this one will be it i've been waiting um well funny i've been waiting quite a long time to get pirates but they're um they're they're they're rare they're very yeah i'll take i'll take that if you want um that's uh ce number one right well yeah you're probably not selling that then are you um no it's so it's going to be it's going to be a potter but i've always been in awe of the screens and i just love the depth it gives them because anyone does any video editing knows anyway you're working in layers but you seem to be just make better use of layers than any anyone else and just the little things we've got the brick facade and then you've got the depth you've got the movie playing and then you've got the the quidditch in one corner i think you'll get used i think the first time you see the screen you're amazed by it but very quickly you grow accustomed to it and realize that actually just every all the information you need All the information you need is there. You're not having to hold down the flipper buttons to find that stuff out. And I think you do that really, really well. How much work goes into the screen and that sort of thing?
    38:19
    I mean, it's been full time for three people for almost 18 months. So the genius of our UI is Jean-Paul DeWin. I mean, he is fantastic at what he does. JP, he lives in the Netherlands. He has worked our UI for every game we've made since Wizard of Oz. He's very good at helping convey the information the players need, again, without trapping up and waiting for status report. And showing it in a way that's visual versus words and paragraphs of text and things like that. right so it helps to have a guy who's really good at ui design also be our lead animator and art director um so jp has been just clutch on this project i couldn't have done it without him he provides so much good insight on how to convey that information to the player in a way that isn't overwhelming and you can quickly glance up and look at the ui and know exactly where you at where you are at in all instances yeah i mean he's i've worked in in that sort of in and around video for you know for a few years now and it is excellent you can just that that really is you could just tell it's just top it's top quality work it really is obvious that that's the case i've shared the screen there if you want to share that oh i'll show you the information
    40:00
    i really like the uh when you go when you get the multiplier and obviously that spell that just keeps doubling up on the gold and all that and it was overfilling the screen yeah yes and covering the screen right it yeah that was one of these design choices we're like well
    40:15
    you know are people going to get upset that their score is getting covered and their status is getting covered i'm like yeah probably but that's how it works in the movies right you're multiplying all this stuff it's filling up you it's kind of a it's a risk reward and that's what i love about a A lot of the design choices we make, it's risk-reward. You want to double your score or get it even higher? Well, you're going to miss out on exactly what you're supposed to be seeing because all of these cups that are filling up the screen, that's what happens in the vault of Bellatrix Lestrange when they go after the Horcrux. So the pinball nerds might be like, but the Potter nerds are going to be like, this is so cool, this is just like the movie when it fills up and it's getting to the top.
    41:00
    I like risk reward and it's only covering your screen for 30 seconds, but you're doubling your points while you're doing it or higher. It's more than just a 2x multiplier. It's based on how many combos you've been doing. And your longest chain of combos is what sets that multiplier value. Yeah. And the most unmeasured metric in pinball, which is drama. It builds drama, which is people don't often talk about it, I find. Eric, can you talk us through the wizard modes, please? What are your plans for them? Sure.
    41:34
    Currently in the game, there are two of the wizard modes. There are still two more to be brought into the game.
    41:43
    The wizard mode that's playable right now is called the Battle of Hogwarts. The Battle of Hogwarts is an iconic part of the franchise in the last two films. and it's when the Death Eaters come after Hogwarts and lots of action lots of excitement, lots of energy the way you qualify Battle of Hogwarts and this is again another way where I appreciate Joe Katz and the insight he has into game rule development so Battle of Hogwarts is qualified by playing any four different multi-balls. Okay, so you play four different multi-balls, you've unlocked the Battle of Hogwarts. However, if the game has gone through a hundred plays and no one's gotten to the Battle of Hogwarts, then the rule difficulty will index down. Now the Battle of Hogwarts is qualified by playing three, any three multi-balls instead. And if another hundred games go by and no one's gotten to Battle of Hogwarts, it will be two multi-balls to qualify the Battle of Hogwarts wizard mode. We put so much time and energy into things like these wizard modes and the animations and sound calls and all of the stuff. We want people to experience them and we want casual players to be able to experience them. And so when the game auto-difficulty regulates downward to help those players experience something they've never experienced before. It's a great thing. And it was Joe that came up with this idea. And he's like, yeah, if we do an index adjustment per gameplay, it's going to make it so other people can experience this, not just the elite pinball players.
    43:42
    So that's wizard mode number one. Wizard Mode number two is called the Deathly Hollows, and that's earned by collecting the three elements of the Deathly Hollows, the cloak, the wand, and the stone. Those are awarded to you by completing scenes from movies. So I think here you complete five scenes, you get an element, you complete another five scenes, you get another element, you complete another five scenes, you get another element. That mode is still in development. We wanted to get probably the easiest one in the game first, which was Battle of Hogwarts.
    44:22
    You're still earning scoring opportunities right now. If you do get to the Deathly Hallows, I think we give you 100 million points if you collect all three elements. then the third wizard mode is called the boy who lived um it is an insert that we have at the bottom that represents usually ball save um but if you have collected all seven of the horcruxes which are decently hard to reach goals um there's a horcrux tied to some of the later accomplishments in the game. As in, you get a horcrux from completing a super jackpot in three or four of the various multiballs. You get a horcrux by getting...
    45:23
    by completing the video mode. There's a video mode, which is interesting. You're casting a spell. I don't know if anyone's seen that or caught on that yet. I didn't know there was a video mode. Video mode is such a dirty word in pinball these days. We wanted to make it interesting, but not prolonged.
    45:45
    So it's basically a quick Simon Says of casting a spell. You'll see a spell appear on the screen, and it's Alohomora, left flipper, left flipper, right flipper. And then you have to remember it, and then it goes away. It's when it's got the arrows pointing down, isn't it? I have seen it. I actually thought it was very good, actually. I didn't even think of it as a video mode. I did think of it as a test. Yeah.
    46:11
    And you can earn a Horcrux from doing that. So basically the end of the game is after you've collected the seven Horcruxes, you get to play the Boy Who Lived. And that mode is still in development.
    46:28
    So I think that's it. The three wizard modes. There are some later, there's like a later multi-ball that I would, you know, is it a wizard mode? Is it a mini wizard mode? Is it just a multi-ball? It happens when you've completed a movie. Or I should say when you've played through a movie, you don't have to finish all of the shots or anything like that. But after you've taken your final exam, which is the way we break our movie modes down, we break them into three segments, the fall term, which is the first five iconic scenes from the first half of a movie. Then the spring term, which is the next five iconic scenes. And then finally, your final exam is the climax of the movie, the end of it. So after you've gotten all the way through a movie, and you've played your final exam, you get to take your OWL's multi-ball, or OWL's exam, which is a two-ball multi-ball and one of the greatest scenes from the franchise in the fifth movie when the Weasley twins you know fly into the great hall as Terry and his fellow fifth years are taking their OWL's exam and Umbridge is standing there and you know it's a great scene we wanted to turn it into a multi-ball there's some really fun choreo that goes with it of like you know the hot rails look like there's two red lights that are flying around the hot rails which are representing the Weasley twins on their brooms and dropping firework bombs and stuff like that. And it's a really cool. But that's a multiball that's decently far out there after you've survived a movie, which your pinball players should be able to get through a movie after they've played the game a few times.
    48:17
    But it's not going to happen every game. These movies are not a traditional five-shot mode. they're you know closer to 30 to 45 shots as you play through each scene is two to three shots um so it's one of those things people are like oh how am i going to play all six movies like you're probably not going to play all six movies in one game that's in the same game that's massive um but that's why we also 90 something modes isn't it yeah it's over 90 modes i know a couple of people that would give it a good try i could say some a couple of very good players who might give a good yeah yeah yeah what's really fun about that is every one of those modes has its own unique music that's been written by dave seal right he wrote over 90 pieces whilst you're on that if i because it would be yet that that's that's reminding me of something the one piece of criticism that i've i've heard and it's one solitary piece actually is that the call outs almost overpower the audio from the film or or the music or something like that and there's maybe too many instructional call outs you know hit the left ramp hit this that this that and the other is there a way to in future that because don't get me wrong i love mark silk he's a really good guy he's an excellent voiceover artist by the way is there any way that that can be ratcheted down just in terms of the instructional stuff on there at some point in the code in the future yes simple as that um so what we what we wanted to do with the voice calls is That may be a negative criticism from pinball players but again put yourself in the shoes of a casual who the lights are blinking i don know what to do and then you hear mark tell you shoot the left brand or head for the staircase to start multiball there is a setting in the game that we leave mixed by default which is in world versus pinball call outs so you can set it if you're the harry potter fan so you'll never hear things like left ramp you'll only hear head for the quidditch pitch head for the great hall head for the grand staircase versus head for the left ramp head for the center right orbit um the callouts themselves are frequent um to provide instructions for the casual players but i don't know if that setting is in there to to ratchet those back yet but if that's a piece of feedback that's not a hard thing i think i think it's the biggest piece of feedback i've seen and and as i said earlier it was somebody said i'm just worried is because people are the way they are particularly on pin side i'm not going to pretend otherwise i you know work in social media myself and exactly what it's like in this case well hold on maybe this bit of feedback is going to get missed because what all that other stuff honestly there's there's there's nothing else and i just think that's so rare in in a game um that it's been so overwhelmingly positive so many people have said they're going to get this game and and i'll be interested to hear what enzo thinks about this just listening to you speak about the game your enthusiasm is infectious and it actually just wants i want wednesday to be now because i want to play the game um and so i mean you must be feeling the same i'm very excited about it yeah look i i was like thinking oh when are we going to see it because we're not going to see it here probably till we've got an expo in like november obviously i'm hoping paul gets one sooner but it is really anticipating and there's so many more things that like i'd love to ask and like you know there's that i think you guys have done like an industry first where you like you get three little barcodes that you can scan yes so if all three of us are playing a game the barcodes have easy medium and hard right and then that adjusts the rules per player correct correct which is a really cool thing this is an industry first understand this so we've trademarked and are applying for patent on something called the game changer and the game changer allows people of different skill levels to play a multiplayer game but the rules are are adjusted per player a handicap system yes fantastic yeah so you scan you know the game comes out on normal on default which is where we feel this is a good challenge for regular players um but guys like you know carl d'angelo who can can beat a game the first time they ever look at it um we want them to play on wizard mode so you take the keychain and that's just the first implementation. I wanted a physical implementation that the owner of the game has no choice but to see it when they unbox the game. So I actually have my assembly line threading these keychains onto the keys of the game so that you pick this up and you're like, why are there keychains here with a description on here's the Jersey Jack game changer. So we hit the start button and player one, Maybe it's my seven-year-old son. I'm like, all right, we're going to scan the easy barcode. And then, boop, every rule in the game has been handicapped lower. So now instead of two shots on the staircase to qualify a multiball, the multiball is qualified immediately. One shot on that staircase will start the multiball. Death eater fights are easier. You get more time for your Geminio playfield multiplier, and your ball saver is extended. and just all of these things that will make the game easier.
    54:06
    But then player two, it's their turn. It's me, and I'm going to play a game against my son. I'm going to scan it into wizard, where now it's eight shots for me to start the wizard mode, and my ball saver is turned off, and I have a play field multiplier that is not extended.
    54:23
    And there are so many adjustable rules in our game, And we say this as loud and as often as we can, adjust those. Adjust those so that they play the way you want to play the game. We invest so much time. I mean, there are literally thousands of things you can adjust in our game. Well, there are literally hundreds of things you can adjust in our game with thousands of different iterations that we want players to play the way that make them feel good. don't just so many people say well this is the way the game designer launched the game this is how it must be played like well if you're in a tournament sure and you want to learn the rules for tournament that's probably how the game will be played but if you're in your home setting and the game is too hard for whatever reason then turn down the difficulty on how many letters you need to qualify hermione or how many letters you get for each target for hermione right normally it's by default it's one letter or maybe it's two letters make it eight letters why do you just hit it once and then she's good and she's qualified right um all of those are settings that you can adjust in your game and we've kind of forced that now with the easy medium and hard um qr codes so those also will appear on screen so you can snap a picture of them with your phone and then use your phone to display that qr code and hold it near the camera so so the camera the camera that you've got just underneath the screen on the games is that what's reading it yes okay fantastic this is a great invention this is uh because we do what you say we do that here but it's so time consuming going into games and opening the coin door and setting the menu this is this is a great time saving idea i just i'd probably do the opposite i'd probably punish my son i'd probably put him on wizard and make it easy for me so i've got the victory but um i think it's brilliant one of the key elements here is it's per player per game so these settings if you you know your game is over and you played easy i played hard and ends up like medium the next game if we want to change it up or change the order we just scan it again those settings don't persist unless you go inside the coin door and you adjust things those are settings that stay permanent but if you're if you're scanning the the game changer uh qr codes those are on a per player per game basis i think it's amazing and so you're switching around in your seat and see yeah i'll just i want to touch on something a little bit controversial right and that's this whole like muted clips bullshit that i keep hearing about right and excuse the french but it's getting to a point where like it needs to be discussed because like the we we know for a fact that there's not muted clips we've seen the trailer we know that when correct hermione's talking it's not muted and for those that don't know what muted clips there there's this thing going out there i'm not going to mention who's the main driver of this but it's like oh you know there's movie content but there's no audio and like it's in my opinion and correct me if i'm wrong eric it's physically impossible to have every single clip sync because there's so much happening while you're hitting ramp after ramp shot after shot that it would just be content after content after content you wouldn't hear call outs and modes and you know hit the left ramp whatever the main important parts are synced right yeah yes i don't know why people are expecting all the clips to be synced like it's actually impossible to do that right there's there's certainly and i don't understand right like I don't understand the need or the desire to hit the start button and then watch a movie, right? If you want to watch the movie, go watch the movie. You're playing a pinball machine. Yeah. However, those assets are there. We have a priority system in the software that determines which sounds are most important to a person playing a game, right? Content that helps you play your game. but the movie scenes all of their audio is there playing and when there isn't something like shoot the ramp to start multi-ball playing then you're going to be hearing those movie clips but they're not muted ever they can be attenuated so they're not as loud and they're not on the forefront of the audio that's coming toward the player but yeah all of the movie scenes have their audio all of the multi-ball locks have you know loud and in your face synced audio um there's i don't know where that would be coming from other than it's blatantly false and just being pushed out there by someone who has a vendetta to cause drama yeah yeah i mean you had the whole thing but it was this was odd because we knew before that the movie clips were going to be on there and we knew that the theme tune was on there and as i say as someone that works in that industry youtube are really hot on copyright really really hot well right and you get you get three copyright strikes and um yeah and you're you know you're in big trouble you get your channel pulled and they won't care youtube won't care that your jersey jack pinball that would just be your channel i i've seen this happen so many times so it was it was frustrating for me i want to say no no you know the the movie clips are going to be there the theme tune once released all the theme tunes are there well it will be they've just edited it out just for reason obviously you did explain it you felt compelled to explain it right when you did your gameplay thing um and it was it was very obvious and you probably felt frustrated having to do disclaimer that yeah i mean it must be frustrating for you to hear this stuff which isn't true because you know you've got a great game yeah and again that's that's one of those reasons why i don't play much on social media or really at all you know it's like i could i could get there and I can try to correct people, but people don't care. They don't think often when they're on social media. They just keyboard commando whatever it is, whatever message they want to send versus reading the fact that, no, as I stated, we're purposefully not putting the John Williams Hedwig theme on this video because the video will get taken down and we want people to understand the game. So, yeah, you hit that start button. you hear those iconic eight notes from john williams and then you hear the and you wouldn't have you wouldn't have bought the ip without it and they wouldn't have sold it to you without it they're probably warner brothers are probably as insistent as anybody else that they want it actually is a separate license that we yes um that we negotiated and we got into the game and that's one of those things where early on it was it was not part of the game and and i pushed and prodded and poked and guys this means so much to every potter fan and again here's another story from when i was younger um i am i am a musician i in high school i played saxophone and then i went into college and i picked up a trumpet and i was part of the university of Wisconsin marching band on my trumpet. But in my high school days, I taught myself how to play this song, the Harry Potter theme song by ear on my saxophone. And I would just play it because it's such a cool song. It means so much to the Potter fans that it was absolutely worth the extra money to get it into the game, the royalties per game and the cost. I mean, it is, I mean, There's no way of saying it otherwise. It is a very expensive addition to the game, but so worth it to any Potter fan.
    62:29
    Do you have to pay for, excuse me, if I'm asking stuff that's none of my business, every game you sell, do you have to make a payment, or is it one overall thing? Generally, licensing works on a per-unit sold basis.
    62:44
    Wow. Yeah. Okay, so every time you sell a pinball machine, you've got to give someone some money. Yes, and in some cases, multiple someone's money.
    62:56
    So what was the line? I mean, obviously, you're dealing with Warner Brothers. Like, was that experience, from what I've understood from you, was pretty cruisy to deal with, right?
    63:08
    You know, there's always... Apart from them making you take the Easter egg off the back of the girl, but that's okay. There's always complications when it comes to being a creative person who wants to put everything possible into a game and make things as you want them seen. And then the licensor says, well, we think it should be this way and this is what you're going to do.
    63:36
    So it was, you know, the ability to put all of the stuff we put in the game was great. and I always want to have more and more intricate and intimate interactions with the license.
    63:51
    It's not always the way things work, you know, and that's just one of the realities of making a game and how it's, you know, not a homebrew game. With a homebrew game that you're never going to sell, you can do whatever you want, right? And if it's for your personal use, you have the ability and the freedom to make whatever it is you want. But when you're working for a company in which you've license the IP, the IP holder has final decision on literally everything you do. So they have to be satisfied with the product and they have the right to change the product and you've got to roll with it and you've got to be able to be flexible enough to, if it's not your perfect vision or the way your vision started, then you're still going to do the best you can within the limitations of the license well i think you've done a great job i've been really generous for your time eric we really appreciate it and we'd love you to come back on maybe in a in a month or two once it's all all the dust has settled which if you'd be agreeable thank you absolutely you know you guys want to chat some more after you've had hands on the game you know i'm happy to happy to get back on with you thank you yeah that would be absolutely great uh enzo thank you i mean i've to say a massive thank you to enzo by the way publicly i i thank him privately but enzo lines these these interviews up um i i i sit on my ass doing nothing practically so uh so i've got to thank enzo um at least that side of me there you go that side of me there so thanks enzo and i know it's early or late at night or early in the morning in um in australia eric thank you so much and um i think you've just done it without trying to do a sales pitch i think you've done a great sales pitch because your enthusiasm is is absolutely outstanding your love for the theme really carries through um if we had more time i'd make you prove your story on the saxophone um
    65:45
    maybe you should take the sax into warner brothers but um honestly you've been you've been a great sport thank you for giving us another brilliant game to play and what i think is a golden age of pinball and uh for everybody else uh please make sure you subscribe to the channel And if you are subscribed, if you're not, just check, hit that bell. There's a little bell icon next to the subscribe button. That will give you a notification when we upload. And all I would say is you might want a notification next time we upload because it might be another very special video just like this one. Cheers, guys.