The Loser Kid Pinball Podcast Episode 136 The Obviously we did flip in the script on autism about two years ago and main reason we did is because I Accompany helped my child so much and he's doing great like honestly. It's amazing the strides that he's made that They've actually told us he doesn't need to be in special ed classes for school and he's going into kindergarten So to go into regular school to be able controls emotions to be able to actually talk Without screaming it's amazing. And so we did that right and he loves Jaws because obviously. Everyday that you will be shocked to ball. Here's attitude on 115 recuperate alarms 카메�ukno I want to share happiest account. Hope. Bismacht objection. You know a. Some of these days a refer Joan of course also a claim. Analyze up deeds these days. Is taipe bono yeah and we and clusters sorry taking. Them the think usually. Transcripts filmed Webs heck Since the age of about 40, people who download these platforms try to implement it. RazaGraemet staringpercipleonliche Chandic لو cuers,おりか거� fought judgment案 있یںハ 就 قر får MMAventhہ! Con성이 and their The End Behind Stumbler Pinball This is Davey. And if you have not checked it out, we've actually talked about it on the show before. I have now I need to, I need to increase my my catalog of stumbler mods because right now I just have the Tokyo neon sign. But I that I have jaw Godzilla and I also need to get the lollipop mod. For the for the UFO, I need to get the subway mod, I need to get the noodle bar mod. and he uh... okay these are not basic mods these are award winning these are not le mods these are like signature edition mods and and so we want to welcome Davey from Stumblr Pinball onto the show because we want to talk about modding out your machine and making it look even better hey guys how you going that's uh that was quite an intro thanks Scott appreciate that and The Your son Josh, thank you. I'm now gonna call George shot pinball from now on. Yeah, it's always sharp him Yeah, it's always start pinball now on yeah, okay. How are you guys? You're right. Hey, we're doing great now Yeah, we're grateful that you stayed up This is worse. We're recording in the afternoon But you are not as you can tell by the the accent you are not from the continental US So we're not from the continental US. I live in London I'm from London, but I'm not from the UK either, I'm from Australia, so it's all very confusing. Even Rob, who I do a podcast with, at the same time, 10 o'clock in the UK, 4pm Eastern Standard Time, even he gets confused about where I am from one day to the next. But yeah, I'm from Australia originally and moved over to London about 17 years ago, just on a working holiday was what I was planning to do. PARTIC incorrectly코pped, Shep perceptions bros Tim Hick The mod scene and all the new mods that have come out and was sort of getting a bit deeper into talking about I guess what it means to make mods and all the tools you need at your disposal, all the skills, the companies that you can lean on in order to produce 3D printing and circuit boards and that kind of thing. So where initially it was just a way to sort of promote the scene and to promote other mod makers who might not That's being us será funky The game is a platform to pull back the curtain on what it means to make mods. And you've definitely went above and beyond on that. If you have not looked at Stumblr Pinball Mods, I know we talked about this last episode, seriously if you haven't went to his page, it's insanity. This is just next level. I don't know where the heck you came up with these. Thanks man. Holy crap. I'm not a believer in mods. Like, you've converted me. I'm like, eh, take em or leave em. I always feel like, you know the person that's on their used pinball machine that has a list of mods that they're about to hit you with. Well, it's worth more, because I have the golf cart in it. And you're like, no, you got it off of a cake. I have a golf cart with an LED that's attached with alligator clips on the bottom. Your freaking mod ties in, okay, let's talk about Boobie of Death for a second. It ties into the actual Jaws and relays information to you via a DMD screen on the mod itself. I don't know any other mod that does this. This is insane. This is...how? How? It's one of those situations where it's like, you know, like from Jurassic Park where they go, you know, they didn't stop to think whether they should do it. Right. You know, it's one of those kind of situations I think. And look, I've copped a little bit of flack for that DMD. You know, there's certain people on Pinside who aren't impressed with that DMD. Video鹼 years以前 Create RM ragn suscripea.com point that he is quantity if a fight the on premium l uh... and it's like WirWhoa grandma x Shame what i know today in any town families sort of that amount of time I'm the circuit board and LEDs and enough sort of diffusion material in between so the LEDs don't explode in all that kind of stuff in it it just wasn't coming together so I started thinking about some other ways to convey that that information that's on that sign and then I kind of just started thinking about the buoy sort of rocking back and forth in the water and how crazy and stupid an idea that was and could I I'm not sure if I can do it. Would it be possible? And I sort of, I don't know, you know, usually with these things, you usually just jump on YouTube and start like researching linkages and mechanical movement and everything. And then you lose like days looking at people's Lego contraptions and the amazing things that people do with that stuff with techniques. And, and, you know, a lot of the time, you know, Paul, one of my mates, he builds a lot of his stuff out of Tast Armenia runnersoutback Leonard historia Touchpoint9101010110 and then there's an arm attached to that cam so it sort of goes like that and then that's attached to the buoy and then that's what makes you go back and forth so it's a fairly simple sort of little thing once you once you know how it's done it's it's a windshield wiper that's what it is it's a windshield it's a slow windshield wiper yeah yeah there you go my background is mechanical engineering so yeah so amazing that is uh yeah it's when i saw it i'm like i know how you did that it's it's a great idea for this and it's a simple mechanism so The Orcas here I never did any mechanical engineering I did a little bit of electrical engineering and then loads of software engineering which is which is what I you know That's kind of my bag is the programming side of things But yeah, I'm fascinated by you know, all of the different, you know names for different linkages and movement and the fact that somebody just came up with it and then you sort of do a little bit of, what was I looking at recently, a way to convert sort of horizontal movement into vertical movement because I was trying to get a seagull's wings flapping and I don't know if that's going to go anywhere but that was kind of what I was researching anyway. And then you sort of, you find a I can't remember the name of the linkage. It's like Watts linkage or something like that. But then you find out just by some, you know, jumping on Wikipedia and stuff that that same linkage is the thing that's used on trains, you know, to move pistons up or pistons move the wheels forward or whatever it is. But, you know, all these things that you look at every day and kind of you just think, oh, yeah, well, that works. But you don't really think that somebody invented that. the causes Interrupted latest PS4 Valentinal change I Am about you this is pink that even went thought make the short a le ne me the I mean I get look the beauty of So I guess what I've been able to create with the software side of things is The and it's it's difficult to convey this stuff in a thread, you know when somebody's banging you out, you know, like talk to me like I'm five But essentially, you know like if people don't like that DMD yelling shark at them they can just change it. You know, they can just turn that bit off They can just keep it as eight if they want You know, they can make it display something else when the shark is, you know, you can animate a shark going across it. You know, that DMD, the great thing about it is, the text ticker actually coded but the blood that sort of drips down it when you hit the chum bucket, that's an animated gif. So I just pulled that animated gif off, you know, like tenor gifs or whatever, scaled it down to the right dimensions which is Taiwan movement or flocos of course this year forever I've flexing right back and forth with my I think it's really important to think about what we can do that because, you know, the screen size, the pitch of it is sort of 1 mil by 1 mil for every pixel. So we can now put screens of that size in anything that we're doing and play gifs that are played in reaction to things happening in the game. and the game so Paul who did the atomic Godzilla and myself working on something for foo fighters at the moment that uses that same concept has a screen and things happen in the game and then things change on the screen as a result of that so it's kind of just like adding more sort of tools to your arsenal in a way and when it came to the DMD and the boy a buoy I you know I kind of knew that there was always going to be I was a contingent of people who just wanted to see the original Jaws Bowie, you know, the one that Chrissy hangs on to and you know, you know, but for me to fit that screen in there, I had to change it a bit just because I had to, you know, just size constraints and stuff. I knew there was always going to be a contingent who wouldn't like that I was changing things to that degree. But you know, I wanted to put it in and I wanted to test out like the flexible PCB sort of material that it's And I'm just really happy that I got it all working because it was it was tricky it was tricky you know the I think the the buoys kind of about that width circular width so we weren't sure whether the the flexible sort of PCB material would sort of you know the LEDs would sort of snap off if it was made to curve around that sort of smaller surface but it was The You know after we worked through a couple of iterations and put the connector in a different place And a bunch of things like that, but yeah Yeah, well, so what I'm hearing is we could put loser kid in the DMD Okay, like I want to give that power to people, you know, like yeah I think that increases the fun, doesn't it? Oh yeah. Yeah, maybe my design decisions weren't right. Maybe the colors that I chose weren't right. And with the noodle bar and Tokyo neon and stuff, I'm constantly seeing them out in the wild. People post a picture of their Godzilla on the Facebook page or whatever and I'll say, oh, there's the Tokyo neon and they've changed the colors on it. And I say it and I'm like, oh, you didn't change them that well. The way that they wanted it and that's that's the important thing You know they made it their own and they made it unique and I love that and that's that's why I that's why I did It that's why I sort of you know created that interface people to be able to do that now. Do you assemble these? Oh, sorry. Go ahead Josh. I just say just just to say what David saying I really think that's what takes us to the next level too is the amazing amount of customization that you do with your your mods And it's not just on the face of it I know that you can send you send extra papers and stuff like that to switch out with the neon Tokyo sign or whatnot But it's literally going into the interface and changing it exactly color wise and you even have several options So that way it's like I don't know if I feel confident enough to make my own color scheme But there's several different color schemes here as well. Go for it Scott. Yeah Yeah, and well Scott to answer your question, yeah, I don't know I've got somebody assembling for me. Thank God I'm not going to go bonkers if not. I've got a lovely woman by the name of Dani who does all my assembly for me. Dani, we sort of got the house cleaned a couple of times and sort of just called the company and Dani came over and she was just a lovely person, really easy to be around and then she cleaned the house and left. And then when I sort of was thinking about getting somebody to do Assembly for me, I was just like, You know, she's she's really good. She was really thorough and she's you know easy to be around You know if I'm going to be working with somebody constantly and stuff You just want it to be easy and stuff and you know the best decision ever made she's fantastic You know like really accurate, you know reminds me of things that I've forgotten about that I've sort of mentioned to her You know and then two weeks later she'll remind me that we need to do it this way or that way or something and so yeah It's great and From this archive link to the The Expanding the team this year as well moving to a new workshop soon and getting all that set up and You know trying to trying to get through the big old lists as quickly as possible that's kind of the focus focus for this year What is your well, there's a couple of questions I have and you can take them in whatever order you want Sure, how did you one decide that this is something you're going to do? The first question is what was your first mod and third is what is currently your best selling mod? Okay, yeah, alright. So in terms of making mods and how I got into it, I bought a dilapidated I was a big creature from Black Lagoon off eBay with the view that I was going to turn it into a virtual pinball machine. And this is when I wasn't in the pinball. Well, I was in the pinball, but I didn't, I wasn't in pinball, if you know what I mean, you know. So I bought it, turned it into a virtual machine. It was really fun. I learned that I love Dyno and I learned that I love Robo Wars and a bunch of other games that I probably never would have discovered at that time at least. Rob Gibson Four worries beauty fox24 산 화이진씨tieth이뎁, TV-카markt이에요, manor 땡더게별�bauopedia하게OR, trans eight SALiNT이� 아 Där 십obile all estabanant 경父 오 loop modeled성 Viking력 Сам²들한추인 sp수� 81 midnight게� caracter정 queremos 진것대로도 ked다 Сов게� Rhode편nat게 verbal spread 찾아잡아왔내저ración주신고 intimidated best 닭깣 CHANNEMOR, John Papadiuk, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, I was a kid who was playing with a beautiful machine and I really enjoyed the process. But during that process there were boards that were broken in Creech, namely the chase board which manages the ramp lights, they flash on and off like a chase light pattern. I contacted Bill Ung who runs UFO Pinball who builds like a replacement chase board and just got chatting with him about it and chatting about how the original board and his board still don't work with LEDs properly for various reasons and so I thought you know and he said somebody needs to rebuild it so that it does work with LEDs so I was like oh I should give that a go and then just started researching arduinos and building things on breadboards and sort of got a version working that could play patterns rather than just the chase Lite stuff and it was all based on sort of sine waves you know you just do a sine wave calculation y equals x squared plus four or whatever and you know you create your sine wave and then you use that sine wave to alcohol which LEDs Iker Lips? Lifer umas r. All along the rack. So if you at the bottom it's altof and if you in the middle at 58 on the fire, the topics for Leon. Honey and say he can create like Andy Holdem L. E d isn't going out and then long implied that, not only God what if you could then move them using slammed an중됐 narcissist Johnновice, RA Hard craft, panel of scall Philippines inadequate Christensen, go has come a blind in the guidelines of waters discipline I like USA and a grabbing a. River, in Bethel, kindix reasons. Person is got side was AMP. Sp deeds was on fuzzy Americans advice, important resources in thick blue, The Winne LOL is on! I was using my first mod. It was a chase. It was called the Chase Echo. And that was my first mod that I released. But it's that exact same code that I wrote for the Chase Echo that's now being used on every mod that I do. It was originally on the Arduino and then I ported that code to a chip called the ESP8266. The ESP32 is probably the better known one. But the beauty of that what I peeked I actually told you a minute ago and I didn't make it to the actualknow how to foughtist entire 25 lose withdraw but then I figured I'm gonna do it anyway and so it was so though this running go게 skillfully dose Operator line-up within 28 different schools devoted when questions like you know well well daina I'm not going to just far and you can just change everything so you know having having that code then on the web and all the color options that the RGB light strips offer just that and you know a whole bunch of different dimensions and it just this just you know just that added more and more functionality on top as time has gone on but yeah like in terms of when did I know I think was going to be like it is now um you know I mean chase Echo I think I sold maybe maybe 30 or something initially and then sort of trickled in orders It possibly got up to around sort of 50 or 60 or something like that Um so you know I was I was quite happy with that and that it wasn gonna you know replace my day gig or anything like that And it wasn't gonna justify the amount of time I was spending playing pinball for my wife at that point And then I did a bunch of mods after that as well. I did a mod of one of Swink's mods so it was a Lighting rig for his snack bar for creature as well And then I did the lollipops, which you probably you know know the name it's sort of filtered through other products as well. But Initially that was just to control pop bumpers the like LED rings in pop bumpers and Sold a bunch of those as well, but it was all sort of on the same level Started producing HD pin to DMDs as well and they were quite popular to the point where I could saw that I was getting a little bit of pot of money together Enough so that I could start thinking about oh, maybe I could buy a new inbox, you know, and because that just wasn't really you know I was not available to me at that time money-wise. And so Godzilla was that machine that the revenues from the Pinta DMDs paid for. And then John J85M on the forums contacted me and said I really think you should have a go at changing the sign on Godzilla. Something neon would work really well there in a Tokyo neon star. And so it was it was his idea originally and I sort of took that and ran with it and and I've told this story a bunch of times so apologies for anybody this thing but like I've done all the work I produced the mod I sort of filmed it and released on inside and exactly the same way I'd done all the other ones and kind of expected it to be good but not like anything more Pluginta, He's- Une- Simar. He's- Sil пери- Shepherd. Thinking bey oh Oo Fred John Gegen W inflation And it was just blowing up. Like there was maybe a hundred replies already, you know, loads of people on the list. I think by the end of that night, it was sort of closing in on 200 people on the list and stuff. And so it was just, yeah, it was bonkers. Uh, and it's, it's pretty much been bonkers ever since. Um, so yeah, it was, it was pretty much, it was pretty much at that point that I knew it was something, I guess. Yeah. Something that could, uh, you know, turn into something quite special. I can actually quit my day job. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and yeah, it's been great, man. It's been really good. I've been very fortunate and met so many great people and doing expo and Texas every year now. And just met so many wonderful people and so many great experiences on the back of Tokyo neon. The biggest seller, Tokyo Neon by far, closing on 2000 orders I think now. 2000? I know. Yeah. That is really impressive. Holy crap. Yeah. It's nice isn't it? Yeah. When you have 1000 LEs and you have doubled the LE sale I guess. Yeah. I would love to know how many Godzillas, like what are the sales figures of Godzilla. This Week in Pinball Bridget dollar brazil vale advantage Jack I'm gonna be an Addams Family type game in time I think it's just never gonna and to be honest like I was doing I've started work on the subway tonight and I haven't played Godzilla for ages just because I do so much work on it that it's just constantly glass off playfield art class and so you sort of like but I played it tonight and I was just like it's such a good game like it really is an absolute cracker And it's nice to go back to it after playing like, you know, I've been playing a lot of Foo Fighters, I've been playing a lot of the Big Lebowski, I've been playing a lot of Jaws. So yeah, it's nice to go back to Godzilla and it feels different too from all those games weirdly, you know. I kind of expected it to feel the same but it didn't at all. But yeah, it's an absolute cracker and I don't think I'll ever get rid of mine just because, you know, I feel like I owe it so much, you know, for The Life opportunities that it's given me like I'll never be able to pay that back. So, you know, I'll just keep it on a pedestal There's a reason why it has displaced medieval madness as number one and there's a reason because it is a It's a better game and it's hard to imagine that since medieval madness was basically the pinnacle for years and And you're able to find this thing. So I mean, that's why it makes sense to invest the money into all these mods that really take it to the next level. Hmm. Yeah. And look, I think it's it's one of those ones, isn't it? Because you know, I've common beard that game for good or bad. Good for me, obviously, but not so good for other mod makers. 59 Tschryers 1-2, 510. 09-1-1-5-2-1-0 960-7 Gerald единkelyteail The You know in Godzilla, which is one of the best games and the biggest selling game and You know mod making wasn't quite at that. I guess that point yet, you know, we always still doing his thing and doing it very very well but you know and and you know You know, obviously it was very beautifully made from it from making point of view but not That god de Stephanieilipp việc unintAnnouncera Well, I've got to ask, I'm going to pivot a little bit because a new game got released and apparently it has no guns in it. So my question to you is, are you going to revive John Wick with a couple of guns? Not with any guns, no. I'm not going to 3D print any crap-looking guns so that people can stick them in their game. No, sorry. I'm steering it all well clear at that. So, if we're gonna talk John Wick and modding, mate, that back skyline just looks like it, you know, I could do, I could do a lot with that. That for me just looked like, I mean, I think it looks really good as is, but imagine turning that into a, you know, neon nightscape in proper John Wick style, you know, even the three ring. The only thing that I'm concerned about is I think it might be I'm just not sure about sales and I'm not sure how much a time investment would be worthwhile. Okay, so let's pivot. Let's talk about John Wick. So we are recording this shortly after John Wick was announced. The little or a little more than 24 hours after 24 hours to bench on so this is something that Okay, I know that Josh just watched the first three movies. I watched the first one today. I I know it's 10 years old, but I I haven't watched it And I Davy have you have you seen the giant? I haven't I haven't shamefully I haven't We've got a UK sort of whatsapp group and and all of those guys have seen it all Last lower signature concise highlighting ConsiderablehootingTyler MostazeAust此These distracted sosomethemost Melanie KJ Même Pikeentimes G secondo Arrancar The Movie he's like, you know one of the henchmen, right but that that kept coming up for the advertisement Which I thought was hilarious that it was it just made it even more comical Okay. So the question I have is Okay, we are gonna put on our marketing hats, okay, is this a movie that you think Warranted or would would have been a good idea to build a pinball machine around The following is a work of fiction. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is coincidental.ätzenalk Scooter payoffadea vpnme어도 ES proportion Allenment7ss φ σΣ εleaseok lynä Rahmen்μυ Donkey 나올àthayan direkò легкоçc 거� tanto ox forums frontline divides치lliebereich 🎶λυέρι Chernerv ≪yba狹��� provodţ�riet CUIVƽpielständoニ מק케 Timing and Subtitles by the Amara.org community But like there's nothing wrong with that because I mean they have done this before though they've done Sopranos Yeah, they they have done Pulp Fiction, which is a huge seller. They've done what was turned out with CGC CGC walking? Yeah. Yeah, I'm just talking like pinball theme So they've done the walking dead they've done that so they have the a Stern even made Playboy and so they have veered into Adult themes that aren't you know, okay you and I are The We're raisingKidsPhase like yes, we're in the PG maybe PG 13 just because that's That's what we have chosen to do so so I get that but walking dead walking dead is never going to appear in your lineup Until the kids are out of home. Yeah, like well, okay. I I was wondering about Iron Maiden appearing because it's kind of funny Yeah, yeah the the the animation, but the funny thing is Mike I don't think my kids have ever played Iron Maiden so they've never really looked closely at it It's just it's kind of funny that I guess I'm well into the monster themes and To be honest when kids have come over to my house to play games People have been far more scared of Rudy and fun house than they have been by creature or Dracula or you know or I made nor any of those ones Rudy is far more terrifying than than anything Rudy's creepy he is yeah The The So Josh you're saying okay like It it doesn't seem like a good idea. Is that is that a take I'm getting from you Josh? Yeah, I wouldn't be something you Yeah, I just don't think there's Not necessarily maybe the violence. I don't I just I don't know what is about John wick like I I mean, yeah, Pulp Fiction's a cult classic. Like it's that also came out. It's it's got dialogue. Yeah. Yeah. 92. Pulp Fiction's got a lot of dialogue. John Wick's got hardly any dialogue. Yeah. Yeah. We Googled this the other day. The first John Wick film, there's a total like Keanu Reeves has a total of like 380 words. And the hard part is I think half of them are in Russian. So you're really not getting much context there. Jang Kon memorandum ihorvhaouth9 The Boogie Man Oh It's just it's a really good line, but it's funny. It's like a lot of these lines didn't come from Keanu Yeah, it was mostly the villains and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I just I don't know it's it's one of those things like I guess when they were making this movie they they decided the good the bad and the ugly and point-blank is both inspirations for this movie and I look at those two movies as well and they're not movies. I would be like, oh, yeah, we need to have t quando True, very true, okay, very true. But, I mean, they could have went the same level with Jaws as they did with John Wick. I just don't know. Okay, marketing-wise, I don't know where they got their metrics for this. I thought it was a bad idea. So, I think it was a miss marketing-wise. Okay, alright, alright, Davey, you have the floor. Okay, so, I think it's always hard to translate dark and moody themes into pinball because pinball's a box of The How do you go dark and moody when you've got like RGB LEDs flashing everywhere? I think purely from an aesthetic point of view It's quite difficult. So John Wick in that regard Is very sort of stylized neon you know You know, there's there's you know breakdowns of the color choices They've made in certain scenes that you know, I was reading recently and it's really fascinating You know, they do like greens and yellows and then they do blues and reds and you know, it's very sZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZ So on that scale, aesthetically, that wOULD translate well to a pinball machine if you followed that lead. I'm not sure that they have entirely on that one. I thought Jaws was gonna have the same problem. This Week in Pinball, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, translite!!) The Call that NAScar yeah, no, it's not staying like they're all just terrible and and it's not you know I think it's the I think it's cars themselves like I just don't you know, I think Grand Prix in games like that is probably the exceptions where and Getaway high speed good game. I think they get away is probably the best car game got but there's no car on that The game is a game of the game. It's got an engine, it's got sort of loops and stuff. It's not the car itself. Any game that's got like a matchbox type matchbox Hot Wheels type or model car It just just looks too toy. I mean, I know we're all playing with toys and that's why we love these things so much What about me? Has the truck thing that or the whatever that I don't even think yeah I that's for me that's the least best bit of Jurassic Park is that spinny car thing okay but probably probably you know yeah I just I just don't know cause cars just don't do it for me and yeah I don't know I mean I think somebody was saying on pin side that that they should have and I know that they couldn't because of a licensing right stuff and whatever but what they what they should have leaned into is like you know the The Shotgun you know with cartridges and stuff you know and you know you mean imagine if they'd sort of done that with you know Balls in the lock and things like that like they could have been some really interesting Choices they could have made that were very John Wick that were Like what's that? What's that? I mean? I'm not saying it saying I don't know whether you guys but the the amulet thing on the left like just like what is that? The Next ones cuz I only saw it's a big part of yeah, it's a big part of the second and third movie It's called a blood amulet essentially like you you still you're You still it with your blood saying that like you owe someone a favor Regardless of what they ask and then once you call in that favor and they complete it use the person that owes the favor Sills it with blood. Hmm. And so The John Wick is asked to do something impossible in the second one and it Revolves around that and then he plays it into the third one as well. So Okay, so it actually needed its own toy I'm not entirely convinced but I can understand why not on the playfield I'll get to that in a little bit but I can understand why they would use that and I'll tell you why from a theme standpoint I Would argue that this is actually a good pinball theme The way I'm looking at it is because it is definitely an action movie. And if you look at the fight scenes, okay, I'm going to say this and you can tell me if I'm wrong. The fight scenes seemed like it was a combination of The Matrix and Blade had a love child. Yeah, I agree with that. The visuals the vision when you were talking David when you're talking about the colors that is exactly what the matrix did in the In the matrix world everything had a green hue and so that's immediately what jumped out at me I also loved the color vibe because it felt a little bit like Kind of that 80s, you know, we're talking total nuclear annihilation You're talking if you're in a muse fan you're talking simulation theory, you know that type of nince게haper WirePoint kayakIば căêtъс accelerationĄidersүӭoryòƜiӭ rods̑ъ رғ 당연ح delsґъìا defendantґ» idealsy đґ sterilґα இ Francoestructур proverbückt œ� granny αrationandra dois defendantґ的話Grand71sнееё notice 시간이 disgustië اونجـ'...이고 говоря» 거�équ equilibriumMy Έ�oaоре The Artwork in the artwork right now. There's plenty of shot like apparently there's going to be a lot of footage it okay. This seems to be a little bit like Jaws when they didn't get Roy Roy Schneider. It's not Shriner Yeah, Shriner. Yeah when they didn't put him on the playfield and people were like, why didn't you put him on the plate? And they're like The State never got back to us like we couldn't put him on the playfield because he did so But it when I play jaws, it doesn't feel like a big deal because he's on the screen all the time Yes, so is it a big deal that? There are no guns at least in the art because from what I'm guessing I don't know how you can cut together John wick without having him shoot things and You're actually going to have to limit how many times you see someone's head explode bombardmun recom attributable, Bourb于 Capture ważaire called exposelessprints Она distinguiso scandalf life part god Stare impatient Winter FestivalStaytqV olm cons grounds benchschulden A request from the licensor Therefore we had to work with constraints We had to work with limitations And because that just what we had to work with and he even brought up which has been a longstanding confirmed rumor now that Bond had a lot of issues too with licensing issues Now given that would you take this on knowing that the licensor is going to say hey we have these design constraints Settings Inter guards between Fl葷htij. From someout prominence even though Yellow's actions arraigner incidentvery well used the Juh hebt Arts tas sinon 84 gl 중요한 adsorbed. A%, interesting video 라는 viktigt big external sanctions,uce ikutReally Schn��가Rく Ninja 19302020 mechanic badge valtant Written inthe дор ducttipnidgeume materialis, That is similar. That is what I meant by similar. On Deadpool, a character known for weapons like guns and everything, all the guns had to be stylized to be fantasy blasters and cannot resemble real weapons. It's not uncommon for brands to have sensitivities to how guns are portrayed on which 100% of the art had to be created from scratch. So none of this is actually post artwork or anything like that. Randy Martinez did a great job in making all this artwork from scratch. And when you do that, The Brand mandate Says You can if you're doing this all from scratch No guns now if they were it now if they did poster artwork like they did with bond Then it can be in there. It's really really weird. But this is a this is a thing that licensing. We've talked about licensing issues in the past So Davy you're you're working on these things. Would you say you know what that's something I can work with because obviously Stern made that argument or that in the process you are before they drop a bomb like that you know if it's very early on in the process and you haven't actually thought of any I'm dead you know I you know that was there was conversations that You could do all the R&D and then just switch out the theme to something else. I know nobody likes hearing that and obviously you'd prefer that all pinball designers designed a layout specifically for the theme in question, but the reality is they probably don't. They don't. I would struggle, I think. I know you guys talk a lot more knowledgeably about license constraints and the roadblocks that people have come up against when working with particular licenses and the stories that you've heard in the industry of people who have come across these problems. and the UK as well who have experience in these areas too. It's not something that I've ever had to do in any of my industries is work with a license holder. But it just forget for a brand like John Wick. It just boggles my mind that the license holder would then say that they didn't want to depict them exactly the thing that they're known for. Like even Deadpool, right?frei The People said hey, how can you have Deadpool without Ryan Reynolds because that is what people are associating with it I own Deadpool and it's great. It's funny, and I don't really care that Ryan Reynolds is in it. I Would argue though his guns are pretty iconic though cuz like looking at the new movie Yeah, and on the end of his gun it says smile wait for the flash And that's to me that's iconic because of that gun. I'm not I get what you're saying Davey Yeah, so so is the whole can we can we can we distill it down to the fact that a pinball machine is a toy? Yes, and you can't put guns on toys. So like whenever they've licensed John Wick for figurines, which we've seen, you know, people have been posting pictures of John Wick figurines with guns on them and stuff. That's not classed as a toy. Like, I don't know. I would say that it's I guarantee there's going to be violent clips that are Going to have gunshots. Okay, so I'm just saying it is going to be part of the game I think that taking it out of the artwork is not a deal-breaker for me Yeah, and like it's not you know, I'm not The kind of person who would be put off by there being no guns as well for me. It's more of an intellectual I'm just interested in how this came about in the first place and the marketing side of it too in terms of how big a fallout this is for them and what a deal breaker it is for a lot of people. Regardless of whether that's right or wrong, it's happened. We've been, earlier before we started the phone call, we were talking about distributors and the fact that You know, anecdotally, this has been the worst launch in terms of sales figures over the last 48 hours that they've ever experienced now. You know, just unless they turn it around, which is very possible, you know, we could have an amazing showing on the, you know, on the gameplay reveal. You know, everybody could completely turn around and say, I don't care anymore. And then then sales go through the roof. I think that first impressions kind of stick with these things and the market is saturated. You know, people are waiting for what Dutch has got coming down the road. You know, JJP are going to be releasing something soon, possibly at Expo. There's a lot of options at the moment and for something to go down this badly, which How do you see this going forward? I'm with you Scott. I don't think it's, I don't care. But from a marketing point of view, I think it's a disaster. And I just want to know why. I want to know why, how has this come about and whether the story that we're hearing is the truth because I just don't know. It doesn't make any sense to me. I've done some research on Lionsgate because you know, if we're going to put it back on The You know There's a big difference between the people up front the money to make the movie and the actual directors and the people involved in Making the movie the other thing about Lionsgate2 is for about the last ten years They've made some poor financial decisions then they kind of overextend themselves After John what came out by buying up? different properties and stuff like that and then about 2019 they decide they need to start bailing out water from the ship and The Now they've been selling between stars and breaking up assets and making stuff public and I Think when you have that much inner turmoil as well It becomes I guess one of the you can you can google all this the one point I want to get to I was reading last night is so they were trying to sell off Lionsgate Plus I guess that's a big thing over in the UK. I don't know we don't really have it here The But it between that and stars because they own kind of the same properties ABC and CBS or were looking to buy these properties for their streaming services for stars and whatnot and They had a negotiated ill of like five Five million or billion whatever it was for the streaming app for ABC and then someone went heyということで dans une sets 2011o آ?!?!Дshot farming multiplayer вариант玩 C�nd case of license, an agent for dislosal, an unpaid due to dengue symptoms ridiculously creative agency, site without legal Speaker 2 Stearn went with some influencers that were more on the arcade side. Speaker 2 But almost like the virtual cabinet and arcade one style stuff. Yeah, the one up. Speaker 2 Which is fine. Like it's their, it's their prerogative. And looking at these people's pages, you know, their, their, their videos tend to be around, you know, five to 10,000, their most popular, you know, got there 80 90,000 views. But a lot of these videos that have these 80 90,000 views cola mcconnelly asso Facebook moments Kazakhstan.com in this video, Tallerefinskinetwork.org. FermarkUCKY7 frankelijk The And then what we see over time is there's a slow burn right people They explore they research and they don't usually pull the trigger till about six months to a year later depending on the product Yeah, or some that just came into the hobbies like I wonder if they make a John Wick pinball machine And it's been out for two years now. How do I get my hands on it? Well the thing is is people are looking for evergreen content at that point. They're looking at reviews They're looking at the problem is is when you're when you're releasing this content The Way with influencers but a lot of it was done poorly There's videos where there's no sound at all and I'm watching about a John wick video and it's side words and it's like This just doesn't feel professionally done and I get it's an influence or whatever I just think you should have if you're going to do influencers like that Find someone that you're gonna get better control of I still applaud JJP for doing with Wonka that they had they gave what courses, prospecting, food, whatcurrency, marketing, film, what we do, cost llev круг, fnfbdoe, free, freeair, historia book, yeah, The I was one of those millions Same here that that's the other part that boggled me marketing wise I just don't really understand what the and that's the other thing too is they've come out and defended them I mean, and I don't want to slag anybody off because You know like I'm sure they're good guys know it though You know just making content and you know, they got contacted by a company to do some stuff They were like say yes, like we all do, you know The as a result of sort of I guess not using some industry paper as much she had some of these guys referring to expression lights is intelligent lies you know and and things like that that's just like it's like you're saying Josh is just the polishes you know and for those of us that are a little bit obsessive about hobby and know everything inside out The The miniature details of it, you know in in podcast and things like that seeing something like that on a reveal video Just it just isn't it just isn't right is it? And you know, no me too. Sorry speaking of that to that guy He said that because you know, it's not his gig is it's not his game to know those things Well, not only that but he had a godfather in the background the whole time Yeah You have a reveal video for John Wick and you're sporting another company's pinball machine. Put John Wick back there, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. I don't have a problem with them going to these people because that is how marketing is done. What I don't understand is you're giving early access to people who are not in the industry to promote your product Shouldn't you also consider giving early access to people who are in the industry to promote your product? That's what I don't understand like I don't care if they do the arcade one-up guys fine that not a big deal if you get a random influencer guy however, you're going to make your le money off People who are familiar with podcasts there are familiar with streamers Theisièmeilutar Ioko K Bloodyka, 22 years old, KJ at personalWells most of you are the ones out there giving me the Arica.com際 dere booking icon, Arica.com�ätzlichă одно gång, Well, at least include that. Include that in your marketing. Like I don't, I'm so puzzled by their marketing decisions that it, I don't, and this is me as an amateur guy looking outside. I just don't understand why you would only cater to the people who have a tangential Scott, based on the effectiveness of that marketing over the last 48 hours, I think he can pretty much guarantee they won't be doing the same thing again. I agree. I think I would choose a few streamers. I would choose a few podcasters. You don't have to give them a game, but I'm saying give them the opportunity to be exposed to the game and sign an NDA or whatever. That way, they can actually have something intelligent to talk about. There's a reason why when movies come out, they do a press release. They go through all the talk show circuits. They go and they try to saturate it when it comes out because they want people to go on day one. I would love to have something more to talk about than everyone else who's a fan of pinball just scratching their heads at what their decisions are. Yeah, well, it was nobody could quite work it out really, to be honest. I don't know if I've hit this guy up really quickly. I don't know if they've hit this guy up. Why don't they hit up Unbox Theory? from the the guy's got twenty four million views I mean urged subscribers He's got the other half thirty seventy three million views Why haven't they hit this guy maybe they have he's just not interested with turned down by people who are making streaming like streaming pinball their hobby or pinball The Podcast their hobby you're not going to be turned down by those people and you can pick the ones that you think would be Give a better assessment Yeah, sorry to cut you off go for it Davey. Oh I was gonna say like I mean they they've embraced the competition side of things haven't they in terms of like pulling in influential people from that scene like like Keith Elwin, you know to come in as a designer and I mean that's that's paid off in spades for them you know to utilize the experience of somebody who plays at a very high level and plays in a way that's conducive to competition Has really sort of honed I guess the font, you know honed the edges of their games particularly Elwyn's games and then that's obviously then carried on and other people's games as I picked up on those same ideas. So it's it is weird that they're not sort of embracing the other sort of grassroots areas of pinball as well. You know, I mean, I've always said how much I would love them to embrace the mod scene a little bit more. And, you know, I know that there's various reasons why they don't. Again, you know, people are positive that it's because of licensing and you can't be seen to be giving access to third parties by working with the of that licensed material. But even if you weren't, you know, even if you were very explicit that the material was untouchable and you locked that down, you know, even just giving us access to the data that the game's producing, the switches and the lamps would make our lives so much easier. And we'd be able to produce better things that would hopefully that in turn create more hype and more promotion around the games There's a lot of stuff going on in this game. We're getting a lot of new stuff out of it, but we're getting a lot of new stuff out of it. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of new stuff coming out of it. Yeah. There's a lot of new stuff coming out of it. I think it's a lot of different things. You know, I think it's, I think it's a lot of different things that are, that are, that are getting created, like models are getting better and better at releasing stuff, you know, as close to launch day as possible. Um, you know, even if they sort of had a trusted couple of people that they gave the schematics to ahead of time and come to sign NDAs or whatever. Um, so that, you know, we could, you know, use, you know, what marketing is at our disposal as well, you know, around launch week or whatever to promote the game, the mods, The It's all gonna be You know better for them at the end of the day So, you know, it's it's a pity for me to that. I feel like you know, they're under utilizing You know this this talent base that exists around the mod saying You know in much the same way as the content creators. I think around the utilizing the same way. Yeah, I Want to move on so let's actually give our thoughts and now that we've talked about okay The the the launch of this and the marketing of this I want to talk about the actual game itself. Okay, what's your guys's first impressions? What do you think of layout? Do you feel like this pinball machine? Represents John Wick. Well, do you Scott do you want to hit it off for us? Yeah, I okay this they took a similar approach of visual style Color palette this looks very much like a Pulp Fiction type The Bad Thing Actually Is Very It's in Many Ways it's a similar Vibe it's a little bit more of a It's a it's a line drawn but Kind of a comic Book Vibe the Colors are Great Artistic wise I think it Looks it Looks Great Because it Feels like in that you know how pulp Fiction is Kind of in Thismpreondere So I would say that yeah it's it visually I think it looks great it's you know there's okay it's a pinball machine and I would say it's at least solidly in the middle it feels a lot like I don't know it kind of gave me the vibe of a Ghostbusters how you have the big ramps and the cityscape I think it look it looks pretty and the layout looks at least it's hard to judge a layout if you don't play it but at least it looks like a The Yeah, what do you think Davey? Slightly different So when I initially saw the Screen grab that got leaked onto pin side and stuff I was I thought it I thought it was I thought it gave me really strong venom vibes And it still does in a lot of ways. I think You know, yes, that could just be the fan layout and stuff I'm being a was giving me quite strong venom vibes initially we yet so then we saw the the full reveal and and we all there was also some other videos floating around to where we could see actual gameplay and stuff I think the playfield for me I think generally it's it in comparison to the stills that we initially saw I thought it looked a lot better in the full reveal in terms of the color palette. It was a lot more poppy. The cartoon vibes you were mentioning, Scott, I think did come through a lot better. But I still think there's some weird color choices. Like, you know, they sort of went with like purple and pink on the main sort of motif in the middle, but then the slings are then green and then there's green on the cityscape at the back. If it was me, I would have just betty PDA 59 Easy to win off pun kuntales Antk P Hisunca X dachte Rшийкушены nwls and last but not least soundtrack of our比rospect fire world on работы za time to be heard as well innocuously vologanges zwei ballast astonishing box target on the premium and le that looks like a really tight shot the car is a like a bash toy the suitcase is a bash toy there's a newton ball bash toys a lot of ash toys yeah shot to the right of the car looks super tight as well the suitcase is like a big rectangular thing on the playfield for a lot of the game yeah I I don't get that part. Like, number one, isn't that going to get destroyed by balls? That's what I was thinking. It's a sharp edge. I know it's got some flex in it, I think, because it's a bash toy. But it's still going to get destroyed, I'm sure of it. I can't work out how that's not going to get destroyed by balls. That bottom left corner that's where it's going to get the maximum amount of kinetic energy transfer. So close to the flippers. Yeah. Like and then and then not only that but but like okay so the left hand side is obviously the switch register that makes it pop open but the bottom bit is just a flat nothing so shots to that are just where are they gonna go like probably down the right outline I guess but I don't know man, like the design decisions I just think are very weird. I think the toys are a bit weird as I was saying earlier. I think cars and pinballs don't really work. The amulet thing I think looks weird and kind of floating in space. Sure. It's you know, really important in the John Wick universe and stuff, but effectively it's just like the hamburger and Pulp Fiction, right? Like yeah, it's just kind of thisば Development So saving graces for me, the music sounds awesome. Okay. Yes. I love that about it. It sounds really, really good. Apparently it's a it's a new score, so it's not actually it's not actually the music from John Wick, but from what I heard, it sounds great. And I think the cabinet artwork is like really, really good on the whole. Particularly the L.A. The L.A. is my favorite by far. Which is good because I'm never gonna get it and Yeah, the back glasses I'm not so keen on the premium side cab art I think John wick in massive letters not so keen on that the other two look great from top to bottom all of the back glasses look great It's pretty rare that I like all of you know, I think it's probably one of the nicest cab sort of artwork works that they've done for ages really The I got feeling it's not gonna shoot great. I'm feeling it's gonna be a bit of a clunk fest So I want to point out one thing to you said Davey and it's funny because like you said like 24 48 hours before this revealed There was a leak of the upper playfield like the upper third of John wick Mm-hmm, and I'm like, ooh I want to go see what people are saying on pin side because I guarantee if I've seen this it's on pin side him site so i go on to pin side and there it is and funny part is before they're talking about their fight these people are fighting over what's because i dont know if you know this rumor for the next two games are metallic a them pokemon and it series you remember in wish cope erdogan develop all corruption need you? if i feel like something like domitect awesome this is why pokemon stocks WeGoMe. WeDoRkArt. The…? Buff & Money Okay, on to my actual thoughts of John Wick. I agree with you guys. I think I think when I saw that crate on the bottom right the the suitcase and I don't know how I feel about this. Okay, first off, I want to give a shout out to Elliot Elliot Eismin. This is his very first design. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. He's been with Stern since 2014. His very first game was WWE. He's always been on the mechanical side of things. Right? Because now he is a mechanical engineer, right? Yes. Like The I'm sorry for being critical. I just want to point that out. No, you're good. You're good. Because if I was listening to me being critical of my first game, I'd be very upset. So I just want to apologize for that. Please keep making games and make them awesome. Anyway, please continue, Josh. Looking at this layout, I want to say it looks really great for a first outing. I like the layout. A two-flipper game pretty much has to be a fan layout. I don't know if we can get around that. The two-foot program has nine shots and you could argue maybe 11 if you count like the the you know the side shot you basically like the the sea shot in Jurassic Park, you know Yeah I think with what you have with with a family out he's done an excellent job What I like to see is being able to explore the whole playfield Most of the PPL comic bitter ago. Chromeering, primal of 2019 Don't look forward to doing it, but roommate talking up Roman Reigos and only people red claim!. Don't look forward to doing it, but roommate talking up Roman Reigos and only people red advertise. Squisolation This week, the best myself Since when I think that's kind of a cool concept. I also noticed they showed that the ball can lock behind that drop target as well, creating a little mayhem in that. But really, I mean that pop's pretty safe. But I like it being isolated because in competition a lot of people like to put the ball into the pops, gives them a little extra time to mess with the playfield before they have to deal with juggling balls. With this case, you're not getting that. There's no way just to drop it into the pop and leave it there. I think that's gonna be more controlled. I love Tim Sexton making this dynamic AI. Uh, this is really cool. If you haven't watched this, they talked about it in the Zach Sharp interview on Kongsrs. Tim Sexton talked about it on the Presents video. So it's going to be tracking how you're playing this game and it's going to notice which shots you're making, which ones you're leaning towards things that you're staying away from. So here's enoughier than your In the game code set, you have a lot of players who are playing pinball. If John Wick defeats those two or three on the screen, it's going to correspond with a video clip of him taking out two or three guys. So there's a lot into it. I do love this track progress. They've been really pushing over the last two titles as well with Jaws and Venom. I think this game has an amazing amount of potential. I think if you look at it based solely on I'm playing pinball, I want to play for the code set. I really think this game is going to be a dark horse. I know it's catching a lot of slack up front, but I just think once these get on location, the code gets to a point where it feels very fleshed out. I think people are going to go, oh crap, I actually do want to own this game, which makes me fear. I really think this is going to be another bond situation with bond. It released. No one really wanted it. The code was so barren. No one could get the visuals of it. The initial view of the code was terrible. But it was what about it was almost a year later. We had three other titles come out. And all of a sudden, distributors like a bond, I couldn't give away bond and now I can't keep them in stock. So I really think I think if you're a John Wick fan, you'll be happy with this game. I just I think this is one of those games that are going to have to prove themselves. But with Tim Sexton on code with I don't want to say it's That's what I was going to say. It's not an easy layout but it's more forgiving. It's a safer layout for a first game. A two flipper layout by definition, a two flipper layout is probably the safest layout you can do and there's nothing wrong with that. Medieval Madness is a two flipper layout and it is awesome. Still a great game. And I think that's what I love about the team up here. So if this is a safe game, relatively safe, let's say the shots feel great, they're very predictable. Tim makes up for that with the code by saying, hey, you might feel safe making these shots and I'm going to make it harder as you play because I'm going to learn with you. So I just there's so much potential this game. I don't think we should be writing it off. I think from first blush, yeah, it has no guns. Whoopty freaking do. Nor the sheriff's not on Jaws and you know what? Jaws is every... He's in their tones. He's in their tones. 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Okay and I'm gonna dovetail on what you said Josh. Obviously people are concerned that there will be okay Munsters didn't come out of the gate big okay ended up not being a huge seller. A few others probably I would say Led Zeppelin didn't come out of the gate strong however because it's Led Zeppelin it's still TANYAL KRAVANSKI nostalgic container nextście I'm a very similar Had a very similar I guess deadpan release right okay Deadpool. How do you think it turned out for Deadpool? Deadpool I'm not to be pretty good like the first rule the first take ended up being really bad Yeah, again not like okay If we're saying this is a bad release bond was equally bad with 3 180 and 803% off in action. The Walkingне, YoureWhich squaredZenay, www.………hsxctp.blogspot.com, trepidcoール- curator of darknessque ado.xml Not just aū.ir podría Sleep But Do injured aquatic energies should also be president of the LatinxHmee an hinalyzingotter halls of Yити.by. While O Разa Life is Untoward f Pompefแต Greens to the然, winachandr почему we stre Turns And do you think people will take it today? Absolutely, itís a great game. So,there are ways of recovering from this bad releasesKrines Lars The It is a great thing So this has the potential of really That after this initial bad launch it could be good the guns thing like there's gonna be a lot of people who are pissed off about that and Will probably stick to their guns by not buying it. Thanks. Thank you Yeah, yeah I like it was just a dance by not by not buying it because they've they've come too far like I mean And then, I think, Cary Hardy, you know, can't now turn around and buy the game caddy after his, after his rant. He could do a redemption video. He could do it. I think he just did. He released one an hour ago saying, let me be, let me be, let me set the record straight. So, I haven't watched it. We obviously, we've been recording. Yeah, we've been recording. Okay. Oh, that'll be interesting to see. And there will be people who just won't do it for that reason, you know. And that's fine. I'm certainly not in that camp. And if it turns into, you know, a great game and, you know, sales pick up and everybody's raving about it and stuff like, yeah, it is, it is a great looking game. So, um, you know, I, I, you know, there's nothing, there's nothing that can't be turned around here. I don't think. Yeah, no, I agree. And this is just going to be one of those yet the Carl Weathers storm, I'm interested to see how this pans out. Um, Atomicbrevi It's interesting development. I mean, even two weeks from now. The live streams on Friday, that could really help. I just, I feel bad because it's a really great development team. It's Elliot Elliot Eismin's first one. And I just, I feel like we're focusing on the weirdest things with this game. When we should be focusing on... Someone like pinball, isn't it? Yeah. Someone like pinball to focus on weird stuff. Yeah. Like a shark doesn't eat the ball. Yeah. Yeah. Are you going to make a mod for this that has John Wick eating the ball yes or no? Yes, I've already got one in production. I'm going to make everything eat the ball. I'm going to make the entire machine eat the ball. It's going to be gun eating balls, you name it. You know what, you should do that with galactic tank force when the head comes down to make the tank. It actually swallows the ball and then shoots it out of the cannon out of the top. That would require me to own galactic tank force and that's never going to happen. The To you You can still make them odd. It's fine. Yeah Scott going back to your I would argue that led Zeppelin is the worst spike 2 game made It still sells that's a great sound it still sells it's but for me personally I'll go on the record me personally. I think led Zeppelin is the worst Spike 2 game Well, it's a total fan layout and don't even get me don't even get me started on that Hobbit flipper that is up there that is cut is a Useless flipper there's one shot from it and it is limp. Okay is nearly impossible to hit that shot. I Think one of the the beauties of John wick I think if you are someone that's looking to save a couple bucks I really think the pro is the way to go on this. We've talked about the crate. I Cant Dá**áIJCY chiar louis digestional pré sendo ICH наход we士áÉ analytics chat Bcles ouv ał 주�ñá v'áüți, Education Actors v'teaZ ehni³alúdle gюrš Madisono bañĎnał The Pro because obviously that with that physical ball lock when you go into multiball It comes down into that pop region doesn't that they just sort of drop out into that pop bridge and then probably Come out the bottom of it I think so interesting to see where the where the Because obviously it's a it's a virtual ball lock on the pro So what happens do I get launched you know that region somehow maybe a lot of players actually turn on just virtual locks anyway I think it's similar to we were talking about this earlier. It's the ball gets goes behind the drop target the chop drop target holds it into place So you don't see balls in there. I know I don't think a physical ball lock is Changes much in a in a game. I I truly don't care the I thought it was gonna be a big deal For a lot of games, but it turns out that I rarely even notice it Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. I I do think when it's done, and I know a lot of people dislike Godzilla Premium and LE multiball start with the balls on the roof and stuff just because the amount of time that it takes. But I love that kind of stuff. You know, I think I think it's cool. Like moments in pin, you know, like, you know, bride of pin bot. Oh my God, like physical ball lock of, you know, The You know and the way that her heartbeat starts, you know as an intro to multiball is One of the best pinball moments of all time, I think So, you know, it's it's those kind of things that stand the test of time And it's those are the things that we remember and we talk about, you know years on And a virtual ball lock is never gonna do that, you know, yeah, that's true There could be other things, you know, like that VirtualBalllock will never do that. I don't think. So I'm going to wrap this up. Go on. I'll go ahead. No, no, no. Let's just keep talking. We're just we're we're an hour a little over an hour and a half. And so I want to I want to wrap this up. If I have one request from Stern, Scott pointed this out from John Wick 1. And I think you guys should spend the money for this. Get the rights to Maryland linkage We tried to make a voice sen voix also dedicated instructionlict for stiosisit Snapdragon 저희kins Yeah, but that wraps up. Davey, if you want people to get a hold of you, if you want people to buy your product, how do they do it? Or listen to your stream, your podcast. Yeah, whatever it's called. Yeah, so yes, Stumblr, Pinball, so S-T-U-M-B-L-O-R, pinball.com. That's where all my products are. We don't sell on demand. We have lists, which just helps me. The Big demand for things so if everybody just ordered all at once I'd probably have to go and hide somewhere because it'd just be too much So we run lists if you like look of anything you jump on the list and then I contact you in a couple of months When when it's ready to go the podcast is called in before the lock And we do that fortnightly and you can find us on YouTube and Twitch and all the usual places But yeah, thanks so much for having me guys. It's been fun. Definitely. Definitely definitely And if you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. All the socials is just at Loser Kid Pinball. You put that after facebook.com or x.com or Instagram. Go ahead and check us out on YouTube. If you didn't know this, we are doing video now. Subscribe, like, comment, all that stuff. It helps us out in the long run. And you know what, Scott, give us give us our last words for the day. It is awesome. Totally get it.