56:45happened yeah you could cars cost more than they were MSRP at yeah it so I bought uh it sort of in 2021 I bought a a a golf a VW Golf 3 months later I saw a used one on a lot $3,000 more Canadian more than what I paid for mine and it had $3,000 kilometers on is I don't know what's that yeah no I know how many miles I uh I bought my Godzilla in in early 2021 and if I had kept it in the Box I could have immediately that day sold it and made at least two grand and I could have opened it played it and sold it for the same same amount which is not how it works it's a depreciating asset you buy it and it goes down by it wasn't an Le it had absolutely no scarcity to it other than demand was so high and Supply was so low because of the supply chain issues now what about what about the tournament scene yes a good oh good point so we talked a little bit because ifpa had suspended their sanctioned events we didn't make any predictions on that we just agreed that that was the right decision given all the shutdowns and everything because there were some people going out there trying to earn Whoppers and and moving up the ladder while other places were just flat out shut down and legally like couldn't do it but we did actually try and talk uh do some predicting on penberg uh penberg was coming up in the summer and so I asked you if you thought penberg would happen in 2020 this is where I was really right by the way folks keeping SC very right you were like keep score you were like no Dennis it is not going to happen and I disagreed with you I was so wrong I said yes I said David penberg is going to happen it's far enough after when the shutdowns are going to be they're just not going to it's it was going to be a tight thing so I said you know what they're goingon to they're not going to test all the games it's not going to be as good as the other penberg they're not gonna make sure every game is perfect and ready to go but maybe the group is smaller but I said you know basically as long as there weren't any prohibitions on mass Gatherings that they were going to go ahead and have it oh was I wrong not only did penberg not happen in 2020 penberg died yeah the replay Foundation who were the the the team behind penberg sold like all of their machines yes it like replay Foundation existed continues to exist it it so it survived on paper but as an entity it essentially gave up and liquidated and got out of it I remember I was very critical on the that not I understood that they couldn't do the event like I understood a lot about the decisions except there was so much love for penberg in particular that I still to this day remain convinced that there was enough love for penberg and this was under a nonprofit organization that they could have saved it the community would have been willing to save it if they had asked for help but they didn't it was just they gave up and they liquidated until this year now there's penberg is back for 2024 but we know it's not the real penberg it's a quasi resurrection and we're going to have to see if it can get back to its Old State but it's no longer the replay Foundation owning this massive collection of games and putting on this massive event it's now this highly restricted player count relying on you know games from the community and such and so it just I was really wrong this is what this is what I this is more what I had expected to happen here Dennis this is this is this Panic selling you know you know what we don't want to deal with it let's just get out of here be done they fire sale all those pinball machines they restructure what is the replay Foundation right like that is what I figured would be the more common thing to happen but it of course this was like the only example of that and in fact do you remember there was like that Captain pirate man's uh online auction that happened like a year and a half or two years later yes oh my gosh the most ridiculous price ever so they they didn't sell they sold all these pin Bird Machines and they were all really great machines and they were expensive like don't get me wrong you know what I mean like you're buying a what's that uh with the Rocky one you know what I mean like they only made like 50 of them or something like so they were expensive but then a few years later maybe a year or a year and a half later somebody else sells off their collection at auction and they went for ridiculous prices so you can see the Panic selling versus the well I'll just wait for an opportunity type of selling yeah he he sold at a great time yeah if they if replay had waited another year they'd have been able to get a lot more Capital out of those games in fact the ifpa so the international flipper pinball Association I'm pretty sure they didn't start sanctioning again until like late summer or fall of 2021 yeah it was August of 2021 and that was another prediction I was wrong on I I my I had speculated on our midweek episode that the competitive pinball was going to recover eventually the location closers were going to have an impact on 2021 but I figured that they were going to sanction way earlier than they did so it was August of 2021 and um of course with all the arcades that ended up shutting down over the pandemic and such that the numbers of to recover in terms of events and players suffered because of that that was a year and a half after our podcast right because because you're kind of like ah it'll be like they'll start sanctioning again like August of 2020 which is like three months later yeah but again I was really taking a very American Centric View and it was it is the international flipper pinball Association and I know a big concern that Josh sharp and the and the team had was not everyone was reopening at the same speed yeah the Europeans and and and to some extent so SOA Canadians are pretty funny right we're we're like Europeans uh except we have a lot of American influence because of the proximity of which we live to the world's largest most Innovative country all right so we tend to be a mixture of the two so we opened up somewhat but not as much as as you guys down south the Europeans were even further behind us because they're so densely populated in these areas and uh Europeans don't shower as much so there's a lot more of that uh you know issue of who's opening up speeds faster than others also don't send me emails about the shower thing it was just a joke so you know we kind of we we built off of that though on the midweek episode and we talked about pinball shows as well because again we had recorded this right after tpf for 2020 had been cancelled and if I recall you had said that you thought most of the pinball shows would resume once we saw major sporting events resume but that you thought fall of 2020 was was a good possibility yeah once the hockey games start again right once basketball gets back M we'll see the mass GA Mass Gatherings like the pins and the pinball Expos and stuff like that but what they did is all of these major sporting events just didn't have crowds do you remember that yes yeah that was was yeah they they kept these aggressive controls to protect the players from getting exposed and then they just avoided the whole social distancing concerns by saying well there just won't be people at the stadiums yeah all these rapid tests were developed to make sure that the the the sporting teams could test to keep on television but they didn't develop those for the you know the school system yeah you know I mean supply chain issues there are always supply chain issues so yeah right so but that's the thing is that oh yeah of course when Sports start but there was like an asterisk to that right like sports did start but there weren't people there and it was slower than than you thought but I was even more wrong of course there was already I already kind of hinted at this because I was telling you how I thought my favorite part of of the episode by the way I was like look I was already seing so much like uh social political blowback over the state because again working in public health we were I mean we we took a lot of criticism on a lot of stuff and so I was already seeing a lot of us push back on basically everything that was restrictive and so I'm thinking no as soon as people they want to get back to normal as soon as they can they're going to and so as I noted earlier in this episode I thought penberg was going to happen so I I qualified it by saying if p doesn't happen then pinball Expo is surely going to and it's going to be the first big event that happens if there's no penberg but there was no pinburgh pinball Expo happened as a virtual event I don't even remember this but it was a virtual pin uh pinball excuse me pinball Expo it was a virtual first time I saw David fix in the mustache in the Hat oh okay yeah that's why I remember I'm like what's with the hat and the mustache and then now he runs a company that makes barbecue games yeah and I was so wrong tpf ended up being canceled for 2021 as well as 2020 and because there was no penberg the first big in-person pinball event that a lot of people associate with happening was pinball Expo of 2021 the first and only pinball Expo I have ever gone to yeah in the fall of 2021 yes which is and it was terrible craziness cuz I was like so I had been in the hobby for you know like what a year and a half or two years or so at 2020 and I had my hotel room booked and I was going to pintastic right it's the first time I had been to one of these events I was going to meet Ron I was going to meet all the you know Bruce and all those guys from the other spot and I was I was super excited uh you know to meet Derek who who does a lot of work up in uh with pintastic and stuff I was so excited to meet these people and then it's like it just didn't happen and that was April I think of 2020 so that cancelled and then it was like okay so then I scheduled in for the next year of 2021 and it didn't happen and then so the first one I got to was 2022 and it was in the fall yep instead of in the spring it's it's like oh man it sucked it and and as part and parcel of that we did talk about we thought we were going to see any of the shows actually go away because we knew cancellations were happening and a lot of that was driven by the whole you know sunk costs issues with like tpf had bought shirts and stuff and I was pretty sure in their case because of the shutdown orders that they were basically going to get out of their lease Clause uh you know the rent the you know the purchase of the space to be able to hold the events because those can be very expensive and those contracts are usually very punitive if you try and break them but generally there's a Act of God exception and so if the government government gets to count as God so if they shut you down then you usually could get out of that and I even knew about like an event I was planning that um for public health that I ended up having to make virtual in 2020 and I you know I was kind of like I'm kind of hoping that there's an official government shutdown still in place so that I can break my contract and I you know I was able to do that uh so we had you know speculated on whether or not some of the shows would go away you thought some of the smaller ones might and I thought that the shows were going to survive um but I thought that Midwest Gaming Classic and tpf were going to have the hardest time because of all the stuff they bought for the show the scale of their spending the banners and the and the shirts and the merch and all the stuff that they just weren't going to sell um and we were I guess both kind of wrong obviously replay effects is penberg effect with pin yeah I was uh mgc and tpf were fine I don't know if any of the smaller shows went away I don't recall hearing any went away so penberg was the big loss the replay F show was the big loss that was that was that sort of panic but there was in in context of that k-shape recovery we had talked about a moment ago as well like when we went with the first uh pentastic that I went to um you could really see it was sort of you know just as things were kind of coming back together and people were more comfortable traveling it was still awkward but you could see that the staff in the hotel they were just understaffed they didn't have enough housekeepers they didn't have enough of cooks they didn't have enough uh you know administrative staff just to check people into the hotel you could see that there was still these situations that were bubbling to the top because some of those industries were not recovering but you've got all of us who are these folk that want to come and hang out uh men and women you want to play Pinball and see their friends they haven't seen in a year and a half or two years but the industries that support that the hotel and and hobby industry uh uh uh they really struggled yes and so the last main thing we touched on back those years ago was whether or not pinball would survive covid and you were you thought the industry would survive I thought the industry survive I did say that I thought a contraction would happen but we didn't really see that because the hobby itself thrived with the homeowner Market uh we did see the contraction on the location side so I'm gonna say I was half right but I mean it it just it didn't really play out the way I thought it would yeah I mean that speaks down to the sort of the general uh you know covid uh experience which I mean everybody's going to be like oh God here we go they're talking about Co again can we just move on from that that's been the whole episode right right but it's like you know General pinl right like inflation through 2022 and most of 2023 was the highest it had been in 40 years yes you know what I mean and that's because of all that government stimulus that went into the situation into the market that comes down to the fact that people didn't have money to spend at restaurants or on $15,000 Vacations so they spent that money elsewhere and inflation just in general happened because of that well you know what the alternative could have been worse yes but it's been interesting uh especially now you know nowadays where I feel we so now we have these like new MSRP prices that have been increased because of all that inflation that we saw in that 2-year time frame in particular but there has sort of been a I feel a contraction in the buying public a lot of people that bought pinball machines in the pandemic are not interested in buying more of them now and so now there's a this push back like that the new and box games are too high for what we get but the manufacturers don't feel like they're in a position by and large to lower their prices pinball Brothers has a couple times but in 2022 my pin Bargo ended so my my my spouse and I we have very much a a combined sort of management of our um incomes right like everything is combined we're we're it's not like we're paying 5050 of stuff like things are it's combined uh you know General cash flow in our house right so when I bought my Tron pinball machine you know I had to I had a pin Bargo which that I couldn't buy a bunch of pinball stuff for x amount of time right because my wife had projects she wanted to work on or you know small home renovations or you know children are now in daycares and sporting events and things right so the pin Bargo ended right at the beginning of yes Co yeah you noted it on the episode right so I'm like all right I can spend my you know my my 11,000 Canadian dollars on a pinball machine and then just all of a sudden I couldn't get a machine I couldn't order a machine there were no themes that I wanted so I kind of waited I picked up a uh Simpsons pinball party from a collector um and I paid about market value and I played it for you know six or eight months till the next year and then it got to the point where it was like okay I'm done shooting the garage over and over again uh I want to move it on and I sold it for slightly more than I had bought it for which is crazy talk but then it's like okay now I've got this money I want to buy something and I can't because now all of a sudden the MSRP of a brand new pinball machine is like 12,000 Canadian and then it was 12,500 Canadian and then it was 13,000 Canadian and I'm like and now I'm that's that's generally the the invisible thief of inflation right taking your buying power away from you oh yes and that is what inevitably happens well I did you know eventually just do it and I bought my James Bond uh premium but I paid like 15,000 Canadian for that and if I had told you in 2020 that I would spend that much on a pinball machine I would say that you have something wrong with you because I wouldn't spend that much money on it I when I first bought my Star Trek which was under 5,000 us new in box I told myself I'm never going to spend more than $5,000 for for a pen machine and now what are Pros 7,000 us it's like it's just different uh it's really and I think there's a lot of us in the in the that you know we're not crazy Spenders you know we save our money we work towards those things you know we try not to to overextend ourselves and we are significantly defeated you know what I mean like it's really disappointing now to say oh wow you know cuz my expectation in 2020 2019 was oh I'd love to have six pins cuz if I had six pins in my basement or in my house I could have like local tournaments with buddies and friends and if sanctioned events and now I I still have Tron and and I've got my James Bond and and I I don't see myself being able to afford another pin especially new in box for a couple years you know what I mean and that's not what Stern and and American pinball and jjp want to hear right they want somebody buying a pin every 12 days 18 months I I I couldn't even buy a raven at this moment has that not come down in price yet no everything is still exactly where it was it's it's not corrected yet which is disappointing makes it's okay just give me a second Dennis I've given you a lot of seconds that's so well any final thoughts on this sort of historical look back on our on our yeah hobby going through the mic I mean the biggest takeaway here is just how wrong you were and and I think part of that has to do with the fact that that that you're you're from public health and you just provve to be wrong a lot anyway well I I did hear that a lot what what do you think what's the takeaway here yeah what a crazy time I think is the takeway it was it was just it was unprecedented and we to be fair I I like that we did the prediction so early in the pandemic resp response because we really didn't have any guidance on how stuff was going to play out and we actually got a few things right which was interesting so we're not we're not all bad looking at the crystal ball but um yeah it was just it's a very different it's weird to me now because we still remember a lot of us who are in The Hobby remember going through the Hobby in the pandemic time period but I kind of feel like a lot of the stuff about the hobby is back to normal now but as the price is the biggest takeaway I think because the pricing didn't go back to normal and now we're we're in this weird boat where you've got people that have games that want to sell them but they can't get as much as they were going to get in 2021 for them and so they're sitting on games that they don't want and they don't want to pay the new prices and it's just and there less people buying now because a lot of people are like I no I'm going on vacations pinball was for I don't know if you ever looked on Twitch during the pandemic But like everyone in their dog got into scaming during the pandemic they're not there anymore those people are gone yeah yeah they are absolutely here's here's the other thing we learned how to bake bread and stream that's what people did I got so I still get emails to silverball Chronicles at gmail.com and and people actually join our patreon who are like hey I got into the Hobby in 2021 and this resource that you have is so great and it's so cool to learn about you know the Barry ERS and and the Steve Riches of the industry it's so awesome that you do all this and I'm thinking to myself man I get a lot of emails from people that are like I just joined the Hobby and thanks for what you do like the amount of people that came into the hobby that weren't around in 2018 you know it was a lot now I guess when you think about when you joined the hobby what is that like 2010 or something 2012 2012 right you're thinking yourself man I can't believe there's all these people in 18 in the hobby yeah no it's I mean we've been on an upward growth cycle but yeah that the pandemic again you could you have an arcade in your house what a a fun thing that even if you couldn't have people over you had your family there and stuff and it it was something you could do or you could invite your close friends over and you didn't have to be out and it it solved it was just solved a lot of things and hey if you're stuck at home why not learn about a new hobby so yeah it's it's interesting and and a number of those people have stuck with it but they're not going to buy at the same rate that they did back when they had nothing else to spend their money on so yeah that's I think that's the biggest takeaway cool well for those that didn't want to hear about a bunch of History even though I brought on the preeminent expert of pinball history onto the show we do have a conversation planned about the 2024 Texas pinball Festival but only for those of you that are a patreon member I got a pay wallet sorry guys that's R it's the rules so you can join for as low as $10 a month at patreon.com theep pinball show and you can hear David and I give our thoughts on the games the layout and all the fun stuff that had to do with 2024 tpf maybe I'll will quiz you as opposed to you quizzing me oh that would be a nice change of pace speaking of change of pace you know what time it is I think it's time most a wonderful time of the year oh you're going to love this because I'm I'm giving it all to you it's time for I got about all I'll try and do the Zach thing I'll try and be nice and do it you can you can do your own version if you need to it's time for Canadian pinball Market Trend the can't attack [Music] no I like your style dude yeah hey we're over here doing the Canadian pinball market trends we're all going to get together we're going to see what's trending up and trending down through this wonderful nation's pinball Market are you ready to jump in I'm ready oh you didn't do a you didn't do a haming up accent I'm ready e well trending up in Canada this week is Tron legacy the pinball machine the launch of the new Tron ride at Disney World Orlando down there that is driving people's love for Tron legacy including Jason from the pinball party podcast who played Tron legacy while he was at Disney World's Resort but also trending up is James Bond premium specifically the premium cuz it's got that really cool ball lock and it's got James Bond with a pole in his back now we're almost to 1.0 code we're so close everybody complains about Lonnie taking his time but it's been complicated cuz it's got a lot of video clips in there the clips got to sink you got to be able to double cancel them also you the code kind of sucked when it first started so we're almost to 1.0 the pro is pretty good tournament darling as everybody remembers but the premium is where it's at this is where it's at David aren't these all games you own that has nothing to do with anything because also trending up is cgc remakes attack for Mars and monsters bash I've seen these on pinball rev which is the local uh Canadian Forum which is outside of pinside so you don't have to pay those pinside fees and a lot of those cgc remakes are actually spiking they're the ones that sell really quickly the Bal Williams they seem to have uh fallen off a bit now cgc has got the good build quality so exactly exactly and you know what I I love monsters bash I I I really do I want to play that so much is that which is that your favorite remake no uh attack for Mars is my favorite H I don't like the scoop you fall in the Scoop from each Direction it slows everything down I mean that's that's a fair complaint it didn't have the rear entry to that scoop that's where it's at but also trending up in Canada is a small company from Florenceville Bristol New Brunswick called Covered Bridge potato chips this local darling recently had a huge fire and the entire Factory burnt to the ground why is it trending up then cuz it's trending up because now there is a run on Covered Bridge potato chips oh so you are having a difficult time getting those in stores they have what's called storm chips and storm chips are the kind of things that maritimers get when there's going to be a big snowstorm because we're going to be stuck at home we're just going to eat some chips probably shovel some snow and there has been a run on the covered bridge potato chips from florenville Bristol New Brunswick those are the ones that I usually take to people at pantastic by the way yes I think you sent me a bag once I did weren't they amazing the ketchup they were they were very good it's too bad they're destroyed now yes they're oh but they're uh apparently they do have some plans to continue to manufacture at another plant and they will be building a new plant sometime this year but also trending up the maple syrup season yes Dennis maple syrup season is early this year here because we have had a really really really strange season when it comes to uh winter we didn't have a whole lot of snow it's been overly warm this season because of climate change and all of that other stuff but that means maple syrup season is early uh-oh or is that good well you said trending up it's trending up we're going to get this syrup sooner now are you a uh are you a Canadian like a Quebec Eastern Canada kind of maple syrup person or are you one of those stupid Wisconsin not Wisconsin what's the one uh uh Vermont the Vermont people I actually while I do if I buy syrup I do generally buy maple syrup I've never looked to see where it came from do you want to know a secret I actually much prefer the fake stuff like like fake Maple or just like the gener like Mrs butter work yeah like the Mrs butter I mean that's what I grew up on the high fructose corn syrup yeah that it's just basically liquid sugar yeah no I actually I like Maple quite a bit yeah yeah I now I I buy the maple syrup and I force myself to have it but every time I have like a Mrs Butterworth Western Mill or whatever they're called um I have that I'm like man this stuff is good but trending down are you ready for this snowshoes yeah this year snowshoeing has been an absolute train wreck in Canada everybody has their snowshoes on the Facebook Marketplace the Craigslist everybody's getting rid of snow shoes cuz nobody snowshoed this year in fact I purchased snowshoes last fall because I was expecting to get out and about and I couldn't they haven't left the packaging they're still in my garage and I'm quite upset about that but let's get back to pinball Houdini pinball the m massive Blockbuster Barry O's barbecue challenge has meant that people need to free up their cash and what they're doing is they're selling their Houdini pinballs on mass to get in line to get a Barry oser's last partially last design pin cuz there were other people that designed it but it doesn't matter we're not going to talk about that are you sure this is happening this is actually happening the Houdini pinball machines that have appeared on the Canadian Market Trend analysis here at TPS North has determined that Houdini pinballs have gone up more and more in Canada because people are trying to get in line for barbecue challenge now lastly trending down flights from Evansville Indiana to anywhere in the Civilized world this is probably true Zach many's flight was cancelled from Evansville Indiana all the way to Texas pinball festival and quite frankly I'm shocked that they have even airplanes in Indiana I didn't think the technology from 1935 had even got to Indiana turns out it has now I mean come on when the highlight of your inflight entertainment in a place like Indiana is counting the tumble weeds outside on the runway well you're not exactly in the lap of luxury so please subscribe to the patreon for flipping out pinball to get a private jet Zach needs to get out of Indiana he's got to move to one of those amazing amazing States like I don't know Alabama they have airplanes in Alabama right I mean maybe Georgia does see there you go and that is your Canadian pinball market trends eh yay all right we've made it David how does it feel we're at the end of the show oh I don't know I think it was a good episode I I don't know it's only half an episode though yeah that's true well um where can people reach out to you plug your stuff it's yeah people can reach out to me at silverball Chronicles gmail.com that's where they can get a hold of all of the stuff for myself both Ron and I uh read every comment positive or negative and we respond generally to every single one you can also subscribe to us on patreon at