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Episode 46 - Die on this Hill: Rocky & Bullwinkle

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·57m 1s·analyzed·Sep 2, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Defending Rocky and Bullwinkle as underrated 1993 Data East with stellar art and shot satisfaction despite operator pain points.

Summary

Wedgehead Pinball hosts a 'Die on This Hill' episode defending Rocky and Bullwinkle (1993, Data East, Tim Seckel design), a polarizing game ranked #164 on Pinside Top 100. Guest Ty from Pops arcade argues the game excels in 'woohoo factor'—kinetic shot satisfaction—despite operator challenges like stuck stand-up targets, repetitive audio, and divisive long-term appeal. Hosts discuss mechanical engineering by Joe Balser, artist Kevin O'Connor's VHS-tape-based design process, death save recognition, and play-field design quirks.

Key Claims

  • Rocky and Bullwinkle was designed by Tim Seckel and released in 1993 by Data East

    high confidence · Hosts state directly: 'rocky and bullwinkle was released in 1993 by dad east pinball designed by tim seckel'

  • Joe Balser was the lead mechanical engineer for Rocky and Bullwinkle but was not credited, per a Pin Game Journal article

    medium confidence · Ty: 'There's an old Pin Game Journal article where someone actually mentions that Joe Balser was actually the lead mechanical engineer for this game, even though he's not credited for it.'

  • Artist Kevin O'Connor received no style guide or assets when signing the IP, only VHS tapes of the first two seasons, and designed playfield features from memory

    high confidence · Ty: 'he said with when they got the license normally a license would give you like a style guide...but when they signed the ip they got no style guide and no imagery and no assets so he literally really just got vhs tapes of the first two seasons'

  • Rocky and Bullwinkle stands out among Data East games for having vibrant colored ball trails and art quality, rather than predominantly chrome finishes

    high confidence · Alan: 'all of the ball trails are like i don't know if they're powder coated...they're bright like vibrant...The first time i saw it i didn't realize the data east because most Stata East are like overwhelmingly chrome. Yeah. And this one definitely has its own vibe.'

  • The game features thick stand-up targets (3D narrow oblong) that no longer exist and require disassembly to the switch level for replacement

    high confidence · Ty explains he searched for tooling ownership: 'There only two games that use that shape target...those targets don't exist anymore...You have to wire them. You have to disassemble the switch. Down to, like, the switch level, drop it in from the top. Reassemble it down there.'

  • The game has a ball save that requires three switch hits (not a timer), activated by rolling through the pops after launch

    high confidence · Alan: 'the ball save is three switch hits...because it launches into the pops so you have to have like you have to have like the house ball of all house balls in order to get a ball save'

Notable Quotes

  • “if the game doesn't make you go woohoo with like every single shot it's fucking up and i would say that rocky mwinkle over anything else has big woohoo factor”

    Ty @ early episode — Introduces 'woohoo factor' as the core rating metric for pinball quality—kinetic shot satisfaction and fun inspiration.

  • “by the by the end of its time at like any of my locations it's the most divisive game out of my entire lineup people just fucking hate it”

    Ty @ mid-episode — Reveals Rocky and Bullwinkle's polarizing long-term appeal at locations despite initial strong reception.

  • “I went on a search to figure out like who still owned the tooling for that target to figure out like why it different”

    Ty @ mid-episode — Demonstrates Ty's deep operator/collector knowledge and willingness to track down obsolete parts sourcing.

  • “he literally really just got vhs tapes of the first two seasons of rocky and and just watched them like obsessively designed a lot of the playfield features just off of like memory of watching the show on vhs tapes”

    Ty @ mid-episode — Reveals Kevin O'Connor's unconventional design process without official assets, purely from VHS study.

  • “it's usually because those targets are stuck and they will activate and vibrate even with just like flipper hits”

    Ty @ mid-episode — Explains why 'wrong hat' endlessly repeating audio is actually a maintenance issue, not a design flaw.

  • “the safe way to do this is just to combo ramps to light your multiball and then go into it. But that means you have to combo, like, fucking, you know, 30 ramps in a row to light it. You're like, yeah, I guess it's safe. If you're that good, no game's going to be fun.”

    Ty @ late-episode — Critiques the design philosophy: true difficulty mastery makes the game unfun for most players.

Entities

Rocky and Bullwinkle (The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle and Friends)gameTim SeckelpersonTypersonAlanpersonAlex the WaterboypersonJoe BalserpersonKevin O'ConnorpersonChristina D'OnofriopersonJohn Carpenterperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Keith Johnson, a legendary competitive player and software designer, created comprehensive rules documentation for Rocky and Bullwinkle in the 1990s, hiding some technical information likely related to code mechanics.

    medium · Ty: 'keith johnson famous longtime good player rules dickhead...did a write-up on this game in like the 90s...he's like hiding a little bit of information because he probably has some idea how the code works better than someone who's just like...a rules dickhead'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Game design philosophy creates tension between skill-based play and fun: ramp combos offer 'safe' multiball lighting path but require 30+ consecutive ramps, making the safe strategy unfun for most players.

    high · Ty: 'the safe way to do this is just to combo ramps...But that means you have to combo, like, fucking, you know, 30 ramps in a row to light it. You're like, yeah, I guess it's safe. If you're that good, no game's going to be fun.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Rocky and Bullwinkle uses catch-up mechanics (double score award, mystery/choose awards) that Ty argues are skill-based but the community perceives as 'bullshit.' Comparison drawn to modern skill-based playfield multipliers (Deadpool, Batman '66).

    high · Ty defends double score as skill-based selective play vs. Alan noting it's controversial; Ty compares to modern games where 'super jack' is normalized as skill multiplier.

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Kevin O'Connor designed Rocky and Bullwinkle playfield without any official style guide, imagery, or assets from licensor—only VHS tapes of the cartoon. Raises questions about how typical license agreements structure artist access.

    high · Ty: 'when they signed the ip they got no style guide and no imagery and no assets so he literally really just got vhs tapes of the first two seasons...and just watched them like obsessively'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.171

0:00
You signed your real name? Of course I did. If you believe in something, you sign your name to it. Alright, I'm gonna tell you right now. I ain't crazy.
0:08
This is the ground you'll die on. Are you sure? Oh my god, are you serious? Son, people can see you. I don't tell you what to do with your money. Don't fucking tell me what to do with mine, okay? I'm not as dumb as you think I am. I will defend myself. He means it, sweetheart. Well, that's because you're an idiot. I will fight and win because I am the most intelligent. You sure about that? I got something I want to say. Well, you motherfuckers think you know who Teddy Powers is. Well, I'm here today to tell you all you don't know shit. Oh, I give up. You're going to get yourself killed, and this time I won't be able to save you. I make you laugh. I'm a clown. I amuse you. I'm here to fucking amuse you. Come on, don't bullshit me. Go ahead and go, but I'm not going to stop yelling, because then that'll mean I lost the fight. So, please leave a T under the mat. I love y'all very much. Peace out.
1:10
Serenity now! Serenity now! What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Okay, a simple wrong would have done just fine, but this makes no sense.
1:41
Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. I'm your host, Alan, one of the owners of Wedgehead, a pinball bar in Portland, Oregon, for which the podcast is named. But I am joined with my co-host today, Alex the Waterboy, in his basement studio. Howdy. It's going pretty good since you didn't bother asking, Alan. I don't care how you're doing.

  • Rocky and Bullwinkle was the first (or among the first) game to recognize and reward death saves with an animation

    high confidence · Ty: 'this is the first game and maybe the only well i shouldn't say the only this is the first game to recognize a death save...it triggers a special animation that says hey nice death save'

  • Ty's game comes in a blue cabinet (American release); a black cabinet variant exists for Canadian and European export

    high confidence · Ty: 'I have the blue one...The blue one is an American. The black one is a Canadian and European export.'

    • Lonnie Ropp
    person
    Keith Johnsonperson
    Data Eastcompany
    Popsorganization
    Wedgeheadorganization
    Pinside Top 100organization
    Rocky and Bullwinkle (cartoon)product
  • $

    market_signal: Despite being ranked #164 on Pinside Top 100 (high for a 'Die on This Hill' game), Rocky and Bullwinkle shows severe location divisiveness: strong early appeal, then becomes 'the most divisive game out of my entire lineup' at Ty's locations after 3 weeks.

    high · Ty: 'by the by the end of its time at like any of my locations it's the most divisive game out of my entire lineup people just fucking hate it'

  • ?

    community_signal: Kevin O'Connor's unique design process: absorbed Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoon aesthetic entirely through VHS viewing without corporate assets, resulting in playfield art/animations that appear professionally executed despite unconventional sourcing.

    high · Alan and Ty both praise art quality; Alan states 'I would have assumed that this was like original animation cells' before learning O'Connor worked from VHS tape memory.

  • ?

    product_concern: Stuck stand-up targets causing perpetual 'wrong hat' audio and unintended hurry-up modes; operator Ty must adjust targets weekly. Game designed with obsolete target shape requiring switch-level disassembly for replacement.

    high · Ty: 'I pretty much have to go in every week when this is on location and readjust every stand-up target...Those targets don't exist anymore...You have to disassemble the switch. Down to, like, the switch level, drop it in from the top.'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Data East game ball saves and death save mechanics influenced Stern/Spike design philosophy; apron material and trough design continue to enable or discourage death saves across product lines.

    medium · Hosts discuss Data East apron plastic material vs. Spike 2 steel/aluminum trough bouncing surfaces; Last Action Hero and Rocky and Bullwinkle specifically designed to encourage death saves.

    • 2:02
    Well, we're joined, if you can't tell by the laughing, by another guest today, our friend Ty, one of the owners of Pops over in Boston on the East Coast. and he is back here to defend a game that is maybe better than the last game the Pops guys wanted to argue for. Ty? Hey there. What game are you defending today? Coming out swinging, but I am here to defend Rocky and Bullwinkle, or as it's, I think, formally called, The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle and Friends. And Friends. We've got the whole gang. Two ands right there. yeah rocky and bullwinkle was released in 1993 by dad east pinball designed by tim seckel we've previously covered two other tim seckel design games as part of our die on the hill series that listeners might remember lethal weapon 3 and hook just goes to show that his games are a little bit misunderstood as a whole but uh he does have some passionate fans like our guest today ty it's currently ranked number 164 on the pin side top 100 list which makes this the highest rated game that we have covered on this show and i even debated whether this game kind of even truly qualifies since it seems like more people like it than the average die on this hill game that we cover it's interesting because i hear way less people talk about this game than a lot of the games i've never heard anybody be like man i love that game until i started looking at this for a die on the hill and i was like you know like i guess people do huh but i know ty loves this game so he wanted to get it on here and there were definitely some good hater reviews so we decided what the hell let's put this on here software was done by the trio of christina d'onofrio john carpenter not the movie director i know and lonnie ropp is still in the industry still working for stern the other two have left the industry based upon the cartoon series that originally ran from 1959 to 1964 and then it was widely syndicated for another 20 years there were movie adaptations including a horrid doubly do-right live action adaptation that definitely put a damper on a young Brendan Fraser's rising star. Yeah, but there's also that like mixed media live action CGI movie. That's right. With George Costanza in it. That's right. Yeah. I think that's also supposed to be pretty bad. Robert De Niro, like as like a cartoon villain is insane. Yeah. I forgot about that. I was just to prep for this. Rather than looking at the pinball machine to prep for this, I went and read the Wikipedia page about that movie. We brought up Rocky and Bullwinkle on the show in the past. I don't know if the episode, how these will kind of time out, but it became evident I have no idea what it's about. I just have vague recollections of the cartoon in that movie when I was a little kid. Turns out it's not Canadian. It just has a Mountie and it's set on a border town in Minnesota. That's what I argued with you about. You were like, for sure. You're like, it's a Canadian thing. I was like, I don't think it's a Canadian thing at all. Things don't have to be made in Canada to be Canadian things. They lay claim to things. That's true. But we're not here to talk about all that. We're here to talk about the pinball machine. So, Ty, tell everyone who's listening, why is The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle and Friends a great pinball machine? So I'll start off by I was talking to my mom recently, and she was asking what was new in the pinball world. And I was like, well, I'm going to talk about how Rocky and Bullwinkle is a good game. And she's like, oh, yeah, I hate that one.
    5:20
    We should have got a review from your mom to read. And then she was like, but it's like the best theme of all time. And I will say that if throughout the rest of this review or my defense of it, I'll start off by saying that I love the show, but I don't like defending this game based on liking the IP, just because I think it's got a lot more going on for it. The game stands on its own. Yeah, I think the theme integration is excellent. And actually, I would say that I think the theme integration is what I love more about it than some of my affection for just like the theme itself. But if you're really looking for some like wild TV, go watch that first season of that show because they were like, the animation is so rough and they're still figuring like a lot of stuff out and it is just bonkers. So it is a good show, but my defense won't rely on that fully. So we'll start off there. I got this game as kind of one of my first big, large pickups. And I got it because the guy I was buying game, it's too long of a story to get into, but I essentially got this in like this massive package deal and was kind of my first dot matrix game that I was ever, ever working on. And it was a great game to kind of like learn some of the quirks about a Data East game. So I put in a lot, a lot of hours on this game. and there are a lot of things that i think are really good about it there's a couple small pitfalls but the way that i always judge any game on whether i think it's any good is does it have woohoo factor if the game doesn't make you go woohoo with like every single shot it's fucking up and i would say that rocky mwinkle over anything else has big woohoo factor i love that as a rating system i love that dude does the game make you go woohoo i love that make you go woohoo uh i remember the first and the the way that we came up with this rating is that i remember the first time i played toy story the new the new jersey jack game not a huge jersey jack guy i don't you know i get some of the hate about it i get some of the praise of it but playing that game i made some shot and just involuntarily went woohoo and then daniel and i were like okay it's got woohoo and then we just kind of like started ranking any any new game on just like does the kinetic energy of the game inspire fun like a fun experience um and i would say that there's nothing about rockin' bullwinkle that doesn't make you go woohoo whether it's not whether it is like your affiliation with the ip and your love of it it's just like every single shot on this game makes you go woo it's got kind of like a fairly short a fairly short lower play field i guess like the ramps come in like they come in quite far yeah which in a lot of them are like uh i'll also go to say is that i think many of the reason that like a lot of the players that we have like like this game has gone to almost all my locations i remember uh the on the orbiter one thing uh he was like yeah that game lasts like three weeks and then like everyone fucking hates it it's like rocking boinkle is like it definitely has more staying power than orbiter because it's you know a real fucking machine but it's definitely like by the by the end of its time at like any of my locations it's the most divisive game out of my entire lineup people just fucking hate it and i'm like i always try to convince them it's just like yeah it's hard and it's punishing but everything makes you smile and makes you go woohoo and they're like yeah okay i guess i can get that it's got big woohoo we're gonna we're gonna go with that can i i'm gonna go into just like a tiny bit of a defense about some of the things that i know people don't like about it or should i just stick on my go for it there are a couple of things that like people rag on this game for the first one is that it's got there's a double score award that's hidden inside of you can get on a mystery sometimes but there's also this there's this like select award so there's a center scoop shot on this game and essentially the one of the main ways to play it is by completing the eight modes which lights a wizard mode which is just hit this one ramp over and over and over again and if you've got your game set up to prevent people from doing that uh easily it's a fun game but i think one of the awards one of those eight like modes is a mystery award and then a choose award and the choose award gives you like two options for an award i would love to know more about like how these games are coded and like how the software is designed but this was kind of the first game that cued me into which option is on the left and which option on the right is intentional based on what your score is current and it will like trick you into thinking that the double score is going to be advantageous when really the other option will be advantageous and then it locks you out from getting that double score for pretty much the rest of the game interesting so skipping on that double score can actually be advantageous if you're if you're trying to bolster your score um later and later and later but there's also like an odd cap with it so i think like between i want to say it's between like a hundred mil and like 300 mil it just like doesn't give you that award so it's kind of integrated as like a catch-up feature if you're in competitive play i guess or if you're playing like with your friends i know that people say like well it's bullshit that you can just like double your score like that i kind of agree but it's also it's like we're in still in the early days of pinball where like you know catch-up awards are just starting to be like explored you know and to anyone that says that like a double score feature is like bullshit i'm just like well you could hit four shots on deadpool and quadruple your playfield for yeah dude there's so many games where a super jack that's normal nowadays dude yeah batman 66 does it as well like you could you could keep your double or triple or whatever for like the rest of the game if you do the combos right which is just like oh cool fucking insane yeah but their argument is that that's skill based though even if it's just a playfield multiplier or whatever that that's the modern version of that is skill based well i would also argue though that a double bonus that you should choose selectively is also skill based and maybe that just comes with having like a really intimate knowledge of you know i've just i've you know i've spent way too much fucking time playing this game yeah you're probably the only person that knows the rules of rocky and bullwinkle yeah to that level where you've thought about the deep strategy do i take my double score now or do i wait so i will say on that note though keith johnson famous longtime good player rules dickhead is like uh he did a write-up on this game in like the 90s that's like living in like a text document somewhere oh yeah and so he go he went like wicked far into like how to you know how to play this game and and all the like funny ins and outs of it so so if you're really looking to like do a super deep dive into the rules he he pretty much covered everything there is to cover on this game but you can also tell that he's like hiding a little bit of information because he probably has some idea how the code works better than someone who's just like, you know, a rules dickhead because he is, you know, by trade, you know, a software designer. He had a pretty good write up on all the ins and outs of this one. So the first one is that that double bonus sucks. I would argue it doesn't. You know, that's also probably because, you know, someone's put the beat down on you with that double bonus and moved you out of a tournament and you're bitter about it. So I'd say that this is something that I will say from like an operator standpoint is annoying, is people say that the game, the audio of the game is like super repetitive and says like the same thing and makes the same noises over and over again. But the reality of that is it's usually because these, since it's such a short play field and there's a lot of stand-up targets, those switches just get annihilated. And so I pretty much have to go in every week when this is on location and readjust every stand-up target. Are you serious? Damn! Because they had, like, they had those fucking, you know, walnut-cracking, also ramp-cracking flippers that just, like, those flippers are so goddamn strong. The ramps are long and steep, especially that right ramp is pretty long. Really, really, really. And they need them, you know, but it's... It's got weird stand-ups on it, too. They're an odd style of, like, thick stand-ups. We're looking at a picture right now. That's actually also the bane of my existence is those targets don't exist anymore. There only two games that use that shape target And I went so far as asking Basically I went on a search to figure out like who still owned the tooling for that target to figure out like why it different and because the standard 3d they're called 3d narrow oblong targets right they're a little bit bigger which is cool because that makes the ramp shots harder but they don't fit through the holes on the play field yeah so You have to wire them. You have to disassemble the switch. Oh, my God. Down to, like, the switch level, drop it in from the top. No. Reassemble it down there. Are you serious? Oh, my God. Looking at it, it makes sense. Like, those bring two or three times a year. And you're just like, all right, I got to go replace this fucking thing. Oh, man. You know, but I'm probably the only person that gets to complain about that. That's what I was going to say. I don't know if anyone else is aware of this. or that people are playing their Rocky and Bullwinkle and have to be breaking targets like that.
    15:11
    So, but with that is that a lot of the, I'm sure somewhere in the reviews, people will be like, the game says wrong hat, like endlessly. And it makes this one noise endlessly. And it's usually because those targets are stuck and they will activate and vibrate even with just like flipper hits. So if you go and watch like some of the IFPA or the Papa tournaments from way back when they would have Rocky and Blinkle every now and again, they actually have a copy where the targets are also stuck down. And I don't know if people are just, like, abusing that, but there are, like, a couple of features that just happen, like, all the time, and it's because those targets are clearly stuck. Funny. Which I think is kind of, like, when I was banging my head against the wall, I went and, like, watched, like, a Papa video, and I was just like, oh, no, theirs does it too, so, like, I'm good. Like, I don't have to worry about it. can you tell us about the big kind of like circle of the spin to win try to win try ball dots how does that all work because there's like four different colors it looks like this actually relates to exactly what we're just talking about so there's if you pull up a picture of this i don't know what they call it it's just some spinning wheel there's three lights of each color and those correspond with the color of the stand-up target before each one of the ramps. So you see how they're called the bomb targets. The bomb, yep. There's the B-O-M-B. And in order to light multiball, you have to hit each one of those stand-up targets. I think it's four times is how you need to do it. It's three times and then finish it off with a fourth, but I could be wrong on that. So you have to hit each one of those stand-up targets in order to light either your multiball or your spin and win. You have to hit them three times each. I think if you either hit them a second time or if you hit it like a fourth time, it starts action button-based hurry-up mode where you have to go and try to put a bomb out on the launch button, which is kind of fun. There's a picture of Boris holding a bomb on the M. It's above, it's somewhere in there he's holding a bomb. So you have to take your hands off the game and then smash the auto-launcher button to get like a hurry up of 10 million points or something like that. But when those switches are stuck, it will give you that hurry up mode like all the time. So the pop-up video is people are getting that hurry up mode like all the time because one of the targets is stuck. And it's usually the red one or the yellow one. But there's another way you can fill those in, which is comboing ramps. So if you combo a ramp, left ramp, right ramp, left ramp, right ramp, left ramp, right ramp, It's operator adjustable, but you can, after a certain time you combo that, it will spot you one of the stand-up targets. Okay. So if you're a really good shooter, people will say, like, the safe way to do this is just to combo ramps to light your multiball and then go into it. But that means you have to combo, like, fucking, you know, 30 ramps in a row to light it.
    18:07
    You're like, yeah, I guess it's safe. If you're that good, no game's going to be fun. You know, like, that's the reality of it. but isn't it also like one of those things where you could be shooting combos of the ramps and then because the targets are at the entrance to each ramp when you miss it early or late you're kind of hitting the targets anyway no because that resets your combo you can't hit any other switches in order for it to be a true combo on this game which is like which is bonkers but also that's punishing way these daddy's games are similarly on that hit the game believe it or not does have a ball save and the ball save is three switch hits huh which is it's not a timer because it launches into the pops so you have to have like you have to have like the house ball of all house balls in order to get a ball save you're gonna roll through a lane no matter what so you're into one already and it's an auto plunger for anyone that hasn't played it so you don't have control over where it's going it's not like you can short plunge it right so it's like yeah you get it through a lane and you don't hit a single pop you can get your ball back which is hilarious to me because it's just like why yeah why bother it's almost more of a challenge to get it than to not get it fun house you get i don't know at least the copy of fun house at wedgehead i think you get like one switch hit yeah and you can get it back and it's insane anytime that's happened to me i like lose my shit it's like getting the gc on that thing when you actually get a ball save so you're like holy shit yeah because that has switches like pretty much everywhere around the ball launch yeah it does multiple switches yeah yeah oh wow okay well we haven't touched on this yet before we get to the bad reviews some of the positives are like the art is fantastic for the era all of the ball trails are like i don't know if they're powder coated or they're coated with something i don't know if it's powder but they're bright like vibrant i don't know cartoon color yeah like blue yellow green the first time i saw it i didn't realize the data east because most Stata East are like overwhelmingly chrome. Yeah. And this one definitely has its own vibe. And then there's that really cool on the right hand side mechanical feature to save Nell, sort of the damsel in distress. Yeah. And she moves towards like a spinning saw blade. And then there's also the mechanical back glass feature. Right. Like where he'll pull, you know, stuff out of a hat. Bullwinkle the moose will pull stuff out of a hat. And I think that that's like really cool, especially for the time period to have an animated back glass. I think it came with like a really funny topper with like the moose horns and the eyes on top. And really this game I just think is interesting because it looks packed and loaded with mechanical features. It doesn't look cheap. The art looks fantastic, which are a lot of the things that people that dislike Data East games, that's what they bring up. Art's bad. Looks cheap. There aren't mechanical features like the Williams games of the time, all that kind of stuff. And I feel like this game has all of those things. Two things about that, while we can get on that, is that there's, I can't remember where, there's an old Pin Game Journal article where someone actually mentions that Joe Balser was actually the lead mechanical engineer for this game, even though he's not credited for it. There was some weird, like, onboarding process to him at Dad East where he didn't receive credit for it for some reason. But he was the first person, he did all the mechanics for this game. or he was like the lead mechanical engineer and and he went on to do all sorts of crazy clunky things which everyone loves but the other fun bit is that kevin o'connor was the artist for this game and i got the chance to talk to him at a convention recently and he said with when they got the license normally a license would give you like a style guide and he has to kind of like go off of the style of it but when they signed the ip they got no style guide and no imagery and no assets so he literally really just got vhs tapes of the first two seasons of rocky and just watched them like obsessively designed a lot of the playfield features just off of like memory of watching the show on vhs tapes which i think is incredible wow well some of that also translates into a lot of the dot matrix animations are also from the interstitial sort of like in between sequences on the television show. And they're like pretty spot on. The dot matrix work on this game was pretty good. We got to ask you too, there's two different color cabinets. There's the blue cabinet and then there's the black cabinet. Which one do you have? I have the blue one. I have the blue. So the blue one is an American. The black one is a Canadian and European export. I will say mine has a pretty terrible decal job that someone did on it before my time, but I can imagine cabinets are pretty beat usually when you see them. It's very rare to see like a really... I was going to say, they seem to fade quick. It seems like every time I've seen them, it's like completely washed out. For some reason, everyone I see, it's just like they just let a bunch of like third graders borrow their parents' cheese and just like go to town on them. I just don't know. Like they're like, oh, this game, we're just going to shove it in between every palette we have for some reason and scrape it up. It's kind of like a pizza parlor theme. So that kind of makes sense. I think it's impressive what you said about Kevin O'Connor because I would have assumed that this was like original animation cells that they just sort of flopped around the play field because it looks spot on. Like, I mean, it looks it looks like someone who did the work on the cartoon. It doesn't look like somebody that had to go in and learn the characters from watching old VHS tape. It doesn't look like that. I think it was like they may have received like some posters or something, but he talked a lot about just like how he just watched like an endless amount of the show in order to like recreate some of these things, which I think, yeah. I mean, he's absolute badass, and he's got the craziest voice too. His voice is like wicked deep, and it's really cool. That's awesome. He's a wicked nice guy. Alan, can I bring up one thing you're going to hate? Yeah, please do. uh this is the first game and maybe the only well i shouldn't say the only this is the first game to recognize a death save so if you're oh yeah it is programmed into the game that if it drains down the right in lane or sorry the right out lane and then you knock it back in and hits another switch it triggers a special animation that says hey nice death save and then peabody and sherman and give each other like a handshake and then it plays the uh the funeral march i think it awards you like 500 points or something really stupid which is fun that's crazy because it's got we're looking at a picture again and it's got playfield staples so i'm like death saving someone with staples i've never even i've tried i figured it was impossible it's very possible on this game i do it in our one-handed tournament that we have where i've gotten really We've gotten really good at a one-handed death save on this game, and people are just like, oh, come on. You're an asshole.
    25:04
    Can I ask you what, since you have this and I don't, how much different is the apron from a modern Stern apron? For the listener, Data East became Sega, which became Stern, so they're all the same company. A lot of these parts and pieces are, I mean, they've changed a little bit over the years, but a lot of them have stayed very similar. and what ty was alluding to is that on these data east games starting with this one apparently they would reward you for for doing a death save there'd be like an animation and even today when you're playing a pinball machine part of your argument i'm against death saves fundamentally you're for them for the listener but it's like i won't disagree that like the stern apron design and the trough and the way it's all set up like sometimes the games kind of death save themselves Black Knight will legitimately, like, Black Knight for whatever reason, that one in particular, Sword of Rage, will just slam balls into the right outline hard enough that they pop back up on their own. Yeah, so it's like, it's clearly, like, if it's not fully, like, intentional, like, I don't think that they were like, let's design an apron where you can death save balls. But I think that they designed an apron where death saves happen, and then they're like, ah, well, let's just, like, let's put animations in and let's do that. It's easy. It's a lot harder on a Williams game. Not impossible. But it is much harder. How similar is that? It's definitely that same plastic material, which I always joke is just like, you know, it's just like they like melted a bunch of trampolines together and then made like that hard. I will be totally honest with you. I don't own enough Spike 2 games to know the materials. And when I do get a Spike 2 game, put it on the ground and I don't touch it for, you know, years. But, you know, I do very little work on them, you know, when I have to. But it's definitely, I mean, it's a plastic material. It definitely has like a natural spring to it, for sure. But I'm not, you know, I always think it's kind of interesting, though, how much of that also has to do with just like the space on, the space in between an outlaying and the apron. Like, if you ever look at like a picture of Monopoly or Avatar, for whatever reason, those are the two games that come to mind. Sure, for everyone, I'm sure. Yeah, we all love those classics. It's massive. And it's just like, what were they doing with that unused space down there? It does kind of always make me wonder if that has a lot more to do with it than, I mean, I know the apron material does, you know, does help. I know on the new Spike 2 games, what it's actually bouncing off, like it'll roll down that plastic and then the premiums and at least have like steel or bent aluminum or whatever it is that's coded now.
    27:45
    But, but I mean, they still have the plastic on the pros, I think. think yeah what the ball bounces off of is the like the trough and that's a that's a piece of metal so it's not bouncing off the plastic interesting i don't know how that if that is on this data east that's what i was kind of asking about because i'm like uh well so i do know the two data east games that are most known for encouraging deaths is rocking boinkles one of them and then last action hero is the other because i guess in order to get to the wizard mode on last action hero you need to complete one which i think is is bonkers but that game has a down facing six ball trough rocky and bill ankle has a surface level three ball trough like adam family or something i like that you know the trough type on both of these uh games off the top of your head No Ty all about this He brought up troughs before to me when we spoken Yeah he a trough guy That's why I wanted to bring it up. He's a trough man. Huge trough guy. You know, I could rank all those best to worst, you know? That'll be another episode, trough talk. Trough talk.
    28:48
    Oh, yeah. Please don't hang out in the troughs or Ty will come and talk to you about them. All right, Ty, we got to get to some of these bad reviews because we got to get to the other side of this. We're going to alternate these. I'll start off. Zadosi says, very simply, this game is very unfunny and a poor quality design. Of course, baby. How bad could it be?
    29:10
    That blows my mind because if there is one thing you could say, even if the game is punishing, it's funny. Like, it's like it puts a smile on your face. that person's opinion is like immediately thrown out on like what every other unfunny game he's like black knight 2000 not funny enough like all of the serious pinball machines are just out for that guy and he's like i can only play funny games hot shots or like ozzy sarah says i played my friend's machine it took months to get it running 100 once we did we both agreed that the game itself is terrible well i sure hope nobody reads this oh man that's a bummer of a feeling when you do go through all the work and then it ends up just being kind of a stinker i would say then you haven't done your job well enough to make it fun at least they got it running 100 before they wrote a bad review you know what i mean like so it is kind of impressive to like put the work into getting a game fixed up and then being like actually i don't like it yeah i've definitely done that i've definitely put work into games and then i'm playing it and i'm like oh yeah you guys kind of have to sometimes because it's your business yeah and then i don't tell people i'm never like they're like it's this game trash and i was like some people like it yeah i don't know not enough of a negative opinion to get me down let's give me another all right pseudo king says it has a top tier art package but the gameplay really falls short i don't know bullwinkle it looks a little jam that's it that's it compliment top tier art package which is true i think that's objective fact at this point but the gameplay really falls short so he doesn't like the way it shoots and that's it that's it that's all he says one one nice thing one bad thing including the numbers in here on the short review so we have a little more context the overall score yeah the score he gave it it was low right yeah you don't say well sir matt has a lot more to say. And now, here with an unlimited supply of misinformation is Mr. Know-It-All. He says, I own this game, and in the final analysis, it's definitely a theme lover's game. It just so happens I love the theme so much I wouldn't consider selling it, despite having a very imperfect and flawed gameplay philosophy. The game pushes multiball on you hard, and I hate that.
    31:31
    I want to earn multiball. But if you haven't gotten multiball by the second ball, making the right ramp or taking a left orbit puts you in multiball then one of the squares in quotes on the wabak or way back sorry i forgot that's supposed to be a time machine the way back ramp on your way to actually riding in quotes the way back machine is multiball this game x's out multiball where x equals what they have a lot of in singapore or in the cd area of any given major city winky face i don't know what he means by that there's a lot more here but i'm pausing because i don't understand i think he means like it spams I think what he's saying is like, everybody wants it, so we're going to, everybody wants it, so we're going to give it to you. Oh, it X's out multiball. Oh, it gives out, oh, it whores out multiballs.
    32:17
    Oh my, why? We figured it out. Internet, dude, you can just say it. Oh, we're a little bit of misogyny. Love that. This guy's opinion is already just trash and completely out, but. He's got another four paragraphs, dude, so. Other than that, other than the multiball complaints, I'm finding it does take focus and effort to hit high scores. It can be a get-in-the-zone, which I do like. If you want to crack $200-300 million, you must focus. Backbox animation is cool, crowd-pleaser, and the Nell saw is a great feature, but you have to set Nell to all drops to complete, otherwise it's far too easy. It's really too bad you can't drill back that cheap in multi-balling settings. Anyhow, this is a pretty fun game. Of course, it is a Data East. It's one of the more premium-feeling Data Easts, but that's like saying you got the most premium meal from McDonald's. So, yeah. long story short art is amazing and i do enjoy this pin as it is bright cartoony and happy even the dark parts snidely whiplash oriented are just spirited and fun but it's very flawed i just love the theme i mean at least the person gave me more to go on than just like the gameplay sucks the gameplay sucks you know i will say i think that's like everybody's complaint with the daddy's games is just like yeah ball three it just like gives you the opportunity missed multi-ball on bram stokers but you know like it's tactical on bram stokers i would actually say that i i actually really enjoy this multi-ball for a number of reasons it's a pretty straightforward multi-ball in that there's a light jackpot and then there's the get the jackpot but there's also a double jackpot hidden in there so you light the jackpot by getting it into the uh vuck the vertical up kicker that's uh on the left orbit that's just lit when the uh when the multi-ball starts and then you can double your jackpot by doing that again before you collect your jackpot and then that's on a timer for like that's pretty cool actually pretty good mechanic yeah pretty fucking cool if you can go through and re-complete the bomb wheel in your multi-ball it lights a 10 second timer for a super jackpot that's 100 million oh shit and this guy's saying like two to three mil two to three hundred is a decent score on this thing yeah it is because it's like it's if you have it set up right it's a hard fucking game it's a really hard game to get points way up there one thing about like all of the data east because like you mentioned the flippers earlier they're all fucking fast so if they're set up right like if you've got the targets angled how they're supposed to and they're like steep they're not easy games the flippers are strong they're bouncing off of tark it's all over the place yeah they're punishing yeah yeah yeah and it's a short it's a short play field layout you know it's like the lower play field you know the lower half of the play field is pretty short for flippers that are that strong there's also a redemptive add a ball on this game um which is kind of nice so you can if you knock that if you hit the three stand-up targets on the left for the hat trick it'll give you a ball back which is kind of neat and you can kind of care you know it gives you something else to go for while you're in multiball like sort of rage i would say if you if you're like a good multiball player there's a lot to really enjoy in this game um but if multiball is just like it's overwhelming and there's three balls um then then like you're probably gonna think it sucks but you could say that about pretty much any multiball that isn't you know like apollo 13 or something so interesting review but i actually yeah it i would say that that person on top of having some uh less and favorable opinions about the world might just not be very good at pinball so that could be the any like rebuttal to a bad review is just gonna have to have a dissonance somewhere from me yeah that's how this works you get the show if you're gonna bully my favorite game i'm gonna bully you a little bit all right the law says it isn't a super great game play-wise and worse yet it's one of the most annoying sounding games ever created it has really really grating sound how do you feel about that is the sound grating i don't think the sound is particular um okay if you leave this game on waiting for the ball to launch the ball sitting in the shooter lane song is unbelievably annoying okay i think i think that there's part of me that thinks that that must just be an attempt to get you to launch it faster because it is just unbelievably annoying So if someone's just like started a game and like walked away at ball one, you're going to go shut that game. Or they're playing in a tournament or league night and somebody's off fucking smoking a cigarette or just like not paying attention to their turn and you're having to listen to it. That's when you like, that's when you make like a citizen's ruling and you're just like, all right, we're launching this guy's ball. That's like T2. Anytime someone walks away from a T2 and it's doing 100%. beep beep beep I'm just like okay if they're if they're more than six feet away from the game we'll just walk over and plunge it yeah no more of that right yeah right well I will say that one of the ways the sound could be grading is a stuck switch issue so if the game has a stuck switch it's gonna give like a few of those call outs over and over again and that's that was what I was getting at about that earlier yeah I will say though uh someone went and uploaded uh Brian Schmidt did the music on this one it's got some really inventive uses of his stereo chip so he was the guy that designed the stereo sound for daddy that's what i was actually going to ask if this has stereo sound yeah and someone dumped the rom and uploaded the sound from this game on to youtube i think you should do yourself a favor and go listen to the jackpot music and then the jackpot made music and it is unbelievable when you score a jackpot on this game for the rest of your ball it plays a different main tune that's going to be the end of this episode dude i'm gonna choose that music for the end of the episode it is the most kick-ass music ever it like amps you up it is really good shit brian schmidt bass player by trade that guy knows how to make just like a main riff that just bangs it does have some good use of the stereo but it's not like wicked in your face it's it's pretty selective when it happens but when it does happen, it kind of grabs you a little bit. I mean, I could say that any sound package on a Data East game is a little grating, but they've clearly never played, like, fucking Tommy or something, which is like... Having to listen to the worst rendition of the worst Who song ever... Anytime you do anything.
    38:48
    Alright. Rocky Mountain Pinball King says, I've been playing this game since it first came out. My opinion over the years has remained the same. The artwork is fantastic. What a great theme. The backlash is outstanding, and the playfield graphics are best in class. The audio is also excellent. Hey, rookie! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat! The problem I have with this game is that I play it once or twice, and I just do not find it interesting. So I move on to another game. To my taste, it is missing those two or three high-quality shots slash targets that really make a pinball machine fun. He's saying it has no woo-hoo factor. Oh my god. That guy needs to get his head straight. With that said, I cannot walk by this machine without playing it once. The graphics are so gorgeous that they pull me right into this pinball. And then I always walk away disappointed with the way this game actually plays. Aw. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, it's a little hard to, you know, I'm really, I'm going to answer this like someone who just left like a bad review for my restaurant. It's like, really, really sorry you had a bad experience. Like, you know, we really strive to have, like, the highest quality of fun in WooHoo while playing a game. And I'm sorry that did not meet your expectations. I think a lot of people want one big toy in a pinball machine that you shoot. They want a center. There's a reason they make so many fucking games with a center bash toy. Because that's what people are like, that's the shot. And you're like, okay, man. But it's, like, that's not how they all have to be. Like, this thing's loaded with, like, cool shit. It's got, like, awesome ramps. I don't know. And that's why everyone thinks Godzilla is Keith Elwin's best game and the best game of all time rated on Pinside, right? Yeah. It's because everyone loves the Keith Elwin games nowadays, but the best one is the one where you shoot the building. Yes. Right? Like it has a – Really? Because I feel like that building is like the most underwhelming toy on the planet. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I love how we're getting light crossfire on this game. It's no Rocky and Bullwinkle, but it's pretty good. Yeah, yeah. Come on. Come on. doesn't even doesn't even have a you know a big mechanical moose with an arm in it like you know don't talk about a building that guy is a house of a human being and a moose so uh like i got nothing to yeah yeah that is a good point though it definitely and even though the mechanical back glass thing is cool it's not like the main feature of the game you know so it definitely felt like i could definitely see a criticism that like they put a lot of effort into that yeah and it's like it's cool but yeah if you're expecting that to be like the woohoo factor i don't know you gotta look somewhere else you know and that's why there's so many pinball machines you can go play another one usually alien next reviewer says uh alien says people used to play this machine a lot but i wasn't one of those people that's the whole reveal oh man i would like to know like the lore behind that just being like okay sir are you saying when you say people used to play this a lot are you saying that people no longer play it a lot or I think, yeah, it's like the long wild on it.
    42:02
    It's like the Mitch Hedberg joke. Yeah. I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to too. All right. I love that review. That's a good one. Rotons says, I bought this game and it was definitely not a keeper for me. After four weeks, I was sick of the machine and I didn't even play it that often. When you get a new game, you're always drawn to keep playing the game at first, but this game, not so much. The repetitive voice call-outs such as, Wrong hat, Okay, Mr. Peabody, Okay, Mr. Know-it-all, etc. I mean, I just hated this game. This is the first game that I just didn't like whatsoever. I love the theme I love the back glass and I thought the cabinet was cool However as far as gameplay goes it just didn do it for me i usually make a pros and cons list but this game isn even worth it i was warned not to buy this game a year ago and i didn't heed the advice you're a crooked creepy no good rotten worm shame on me very dramatic oh yeah oh man you predicted the specific call outs that people would complain about by the way yeah the wrong hat yeah i mean well you know maybe he just needs to learn how to you know fix his fix his own fucking game you know if you're gonna be buying this type of shit i'd also like i would love to go to that person's uh account and just see like what other uh games they have that's something i'm always curious about when people leave like bad pin side reviews it's just like you know it's like all right you know what what do you what do you think is a good game we can say with almost 100 certainty that everybody that leaves shitty reviews like this where they're just really mean to old games will have nothing but like modern sterns no i'm looking at this guy's account now and he's he actually has bought and sold like a crazy number of weird games okay so maybe he's giving some shot but he has also clearly tried to go through the process of doing a restoration on rocky and boinkle because he's selling a bunch of like spare assets for it like he's tried selling the game a bunch of times so i'm sure he's probably also just pissed that the game just didn't sell uh and no one wanted to buy his cabinet decals and his extra back glass and all those things that he bought for it. So I love going through historical Pinside Market.
    44:32
    All right, great. Next one is from Tessio. This is maybe my favorite reveal. He says, Data East makes no good games. And then in all capitals, this is not a good game. Is it all over, Rock? I guess so. I didn't think it would be like this.
    44:54
    it's like it's like he's fed up with anybody even suggesting that rocky and bullwinkle might be a good game he's like listen they made no good games this is not a good game like he's at the end of his rope here with this review he's at it with people shoving rocky down his fucking throat everyone keeps saying this is a good game i keep telling you they haven't made a good game i love Love it when people dunk on Data East in these reviews. Oh, yeah, dude. Data East, Data Least, or whatever. Yeah, Played the Least is what we heard in the last one. Data East equals Played the Least. That's really good. That is good. Wesley Cohen says, Probably a fun game for very young kids, but then again, how many of them have even heard of Rocky and Bullwinkle? For older kids and players beyond the most novice level, it will not be challenging and therefore not very fun. Now for all of you out there who need to know a little bit more about a little bit less, here he is, Mr. Know-It-All. Things ineffectuals. Becomes a yawner for most players who have any skill beyond just wanting to fling the ball. Can only recommend it to kids who are attracted to his theme as their first pinball. Beyond that group, there's not much appeal and there are much better machines in its price range. I already know what you're going to say is, he didn't set the game up right. Because I already know you're going to say that. Like he's saying it's easy. Yeah. Well, he's, yeah. I mean, it's, you know, why don't you put a center post in it too while you're at it? But he like this, I also like the reviews that it could only recommend it to kids who are attracted to the seam as their first pin. As if like kids, like children are like the market for like buying games second hand. They're like, dad, I want. It's just like, hey, I can't even conceptualize what like 10 bucks is, but like for my first pinball machine i'm gonna buy rocky and boinkle because this guy said it was gonna be a good decision so i could definitely see this guy being like the the shittiest like stock market advisor or something i i don't know like but uh we have a lot of kids that come into pops you know on like saturday afternoons and stuff like that they love actually alex you'll love this first weekend we opened up rocky and boinkle and popeye were on the floor and and without a doubt the two games people would go to just like you know normal people walking up on you know from the street not dickheads like you and i who love this stuff they would walk into the place and their response would always go oh popeye and then go put a game dollar in it or people go oh rock and ball we go and go put a dollar in it those were our top earning games like i think our first two weeks being open people would just walk in and they're like i love this theme and then would play it I will also say that, Ty, if I were to walk in, that's what I would do, too. Because when I go to play pinball, I've been playing pinball for so long that, like, when I go out to play, I'm there to play games that are uncommon now. Like, I don't need to play a Venom. We'll go play, like, a Waterworld before we play, like, literally any LCD Stern. That's just how it goes. Right. Right, but to this argument's credit or to this negative review's credit, it's just like, yeah, they knocked it out of the park where people are going to walk up to a game and say, hell yeah, I want to play that. Yeah, that game looks like it's got some woo-hoo in it.
    48:20
    Heavy, heavy woo-hoo vibes. I'm going to absolutely unlock the woo-hoo on this game. All right, we got the final one. Alex, you want to read it? Yeah, it's from a longtime contributor to Die on this Hill's Caucasian Two-Step, everybody's favorite Pinside username. And he's got a good review here. He says,
    48:58
    entertaining, great flow to the ramps, and the way back is incredibly true to the original TV show. The game awards you for bang backs and death saves. Nice. The multi-ball start really gets your heart racing. I absolutely love pulling the animal out of the hat animation on the back glass. The cons? Wrong hat. Make this audio cue happen every third to fourth shot, please. Multi-ball is the third ball gimme. Some of the rules are not so well thought out. Random double your score award takes this game out of any major tourney. This lack of thought with the rules, scoring, and play is another reason Data East games are not taken seriously. The takeaway? I like playing this game. I love the way this game works with J. Ward & Co. and respects the IP of R&B. I love so much about this game, but Tim Seckle had so much good material to work with, and he did not finish the job with the gameplay rules on this game. In my eyes, this game should be a fantastic one, but instead, it's just a novelty to play. After saying all this about Rocky and Bullwinkle, my final score may seem high, but I love the theme and art package, and therefore I can't give these categories anything other than the highest rating I can. I wanted to keep that one for the end because it's like, his overall review is like middling, and when you read it out loud, you're like, this is all pretty good, but he hates the rule set and he doesn't like the layout of the playfield.
    50:18
    Hey, he didn't insult the playfield. He's just insulting the audio. Tim Seckle. Oh, yeah, you're right. He said he had so much good material to work with, he did not finish the gameplay job with gameplay and rules.
    50:30
    Yeah, I'm kind of always curious about, especially in the older days, you know, there were some designers who were, like, really rules heavy, and then there were some designers who were just like, I don't know, you fucking do it, you know, to the software designer or something like that. Demoman is definitely, I think, was the biggest example of that. When Dennis Norman designed that game, he's like, rules? I don't think about those things you guys do it that's why that game turned out like trash whoa whoa whoa that is not true I would be really curious I've always wanted to send I don't know if you're familiar with that dude Chad who does like the data he works on I've always wanted to I've always wanted him to do like a breakdown of this game just to see again i'm not a code person like i don't know what is possible and what is not possible in an easy way but i i am always kind of curious like how much of the stuff in this game is like a lack of depth and how much of it is like a a controlled scenario i'm gonna give the the people who make the game like credit almost always that it's like it's a decision that they're they're making very specifically with the design rather than just like oh we didn't think about it but there is i mean they did also crank these games out so you know for sure i want to give those people just as much grace as i can and data east we've talked about this before on the show but like data east they sold less units so they had less time to polish their games yeah they were just moving on to the next the line can't stop moving when you're in a manufacturing business and so they got less time gotley were selling even less games so they got even less time so when you look at the codes it's it's not surprising when you look at data east would say that they usually got about six six months on a game williams will get a year or more on a game and got leave i heard john norris say in an old interview that they would get like weeks three months or something yeah like you know i mean when you look at the rule sets of those games of course they're going to be lacking they invested their time in woohoo yeah i gotta say like that's because that's something you can't buy some people are just born with it yeah yeah you know you could you could work your whole life to try to get woohoo going in your games and you know you might just not so yeah i think rocky and bullwinkle has woohoo i think you've argued successfully that rocky and bullwinkle has woohoo i will give you that i need to play it more often i like that you say that it can be hard because that that immediately perks my ears up and maybe you really highlighted that because you know how to speak to me but it's like whenever somebody's like oh this game can be nice and hard and brutal and people complain about it because it's hard i love that i immediately like a game when it's hard i would say that's the biggest complaint that we would get when this is at any of my locations is really the the main complaint people have in the boston area when they play mine is they say that game's too fucking hard you know that's that's the biggest complaint about it so the last time i got to play one was like pretty heavily routed one and it was playing pretty slow and pretty pokey right you know like it wasn't a good time to judge whether it was hard or easy because it was playing you know slow and friendly but uh i can't wait to play it again the next time i'm out at next level i'm definitely gonna put some games on this thank you for listening another episode of the wedge hit pinball podcast thank you ty if you're in the boston area go out and play this rocky and Bullwinkle, wherever he's got it, at one of his locations. And for everyone else, if you see one, use the pinball map, go out and play this Rocky and Bullwinkle. If you can't find one, earmark it, play it at the next show you're at or the next big venue you go to. And until next time, good luck. Don't suck.
    54:32
    Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. I was just going to ask, like, how do you – you guys are also notorious for having steep pitch games at your location. Yeah. Like, how do you pull that off? We don't change the legs. We just put them – a lot of it's a little bit overblown. Yes, I was going to say, if you actually come to Wedgehead, you might be very disappointed with how the games are basically just like factory set up. But a lot of people are expecting easier shit. I set them up where the back levelers are usually all the way up, front levelers all the way down, tilts are tight, slings are tight. The slings is probably the single biggest thing I would say. The only game that I set up intentionally, brutally hard is the game of the month. We have one game that's on the lower floor, the dining room area of Wedgehead, and that's how you get on the high score trophy. We do a high score chase on a game. And I will bastardize one of those games like that's where I go in and that's where I'm pulling out outlaying posts. I'm putting lightning flippers in. Right, right, right. You're like coughing on that machine. It's tilting.
    55:47
    Like I am just like like I make that thing a motherfucker. Right. And that's the only game I do that. the rest of them we kind of keep them the rest of them aren't basically just i to me they really feel it's like this is just proper factory setup i think that's how they're supposed to play but fuck man we've gotten we've gotten so much heat for it our move to free play really helped a lot of that because now i feel emboldened to go further right right because now i'm like you're like just start another game you fucking loser yeah like i'm not ripping you off i'm it's not to make more money. That's not why I do it. I set it up because that's I want them to play fast and meet because I think it's more fun. It's more fun.
    56:51
    We'll see you next time.