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Ep 72: Expo Recap

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 25m·analyzed·Nov 4, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Expo recap featuring Stern's manufacturing advances, new connectivity system, and standout homebrew games.

Summary

Josh Rupp and Scott Larson recap their experience at Chicago Pinball Expo, discussing Stern's virtual factory tour revealing production increases and Spike 3 development, the new Stern connectivity tracking system, American Pinball's Legends of Valhalla and P3 hybrid games, and impressive homebrew machines (Sonic, Metroid, Greek Gods, Castlevania, Boys Night Out) showcased with potential designer recruitment opportunities.

Key Claims

  • Stern is manufacturing more games per day now than pre-COVID, having become more efficient after COVID shutdowns

    high confidence · Josh Rupp citing information from George Gomez during the virtual Stern factory tour seminar at Expo

  • Stern is doubling their CNC machines for playfields (currently has 2, ordering more)

    high confidence · Josh Rupp citing George Gomez statement during virtual factory tour

  • Spike 3 is in development at Stern to keep up with advancing technology

    high confidence · Josh Rupp reporting George Gomez announcement during virtual factory tour seminar

  • Stern's new president Seth Davis has a background in Walt Disney World, ESPN, and subscription-based streaming services

    high confidence · Josh Rupp discussing Seth Davis's background during Expo recap

  • The Stern connectivity system allows operators to remotely monitor if machines are functioning and offline

    high confidence · Josh Rupp explaining George Gomez's comments on operator benefits of the system

  • Sonic the Hedgehog homebrew designer Ryan McQuaid was able to use primary source assets from Sega because Sonic is 'very, very free with using their intellectual property for hobbyists'

    medium confidence · Scott Larson reporting from homebrew seminar comments by Ryan McQuaid

  • Mark Seiden, designer of the Metroid homebrew, was just hired as a primary designer at Jersey Jack Pinball

    high confidence · Josh Rupp and Scott Larson discussing Mark Seiden's JJP hire

  • American Pinball announced a challenge (Ron Hallett challenge) to hire or produce selected homebrew machines from Expo presentations

    high confidence · Scott Larson describing American Pinball's designer recruitment initiative at Expo

Notable Quotes

  • “Stern is making more games now per day than they were pre-COVID...COVID shut them down for three months...they re-evaluated how they were manufacturing. They were able to cut out some of the dead weight and become more efficient.”

    Josh Rupp (citing George Gomez) @ early in seminar discussion — Reveals Stern's post-COVID manufacturing improvements and efficiency gains

  • “Spike three is in development...technology is moving on and they need to keep up with it.”

    Josh Rupp (citing George Gomez) @ late in Stern tour discussion — Confirms next-generation hardware platform development at Stern

  • “I have no idea where it's going to go down in the future. Currently, it's just free. And it could be that in the future, if you want to add something, then it's an optional service.”

    Josh Rupp @ connectivity discussion — Expresses measured optimism about Stern's connectivity system despite privacy/subscription concerns

  • “He specifically found that Sonic is very, very free with using their intellectual property, their assets for hobbyists.”

    Scott Larson (citing Ryan McQuaid) @ homebrew discussion — Notes Sega's favorable IP stance for hobbyist projects vs Nintendo/Disney

  • “That is the best way to do it because...that's exactly how Keith Elwin was when George called.”

    Scott Larson @ American Pinball challenge discussion — References established path to professional design via homebrew showcase

  • “It was a really solid showing at the show...I thought it was a big step forward for American Pinball.”

    Josh Rupp @ Legends of Valhalla discussion — Positive reception of American Pinball's first major Expo game

  • “This felt very pinball-y to me, but it also felt like a pinball machine and an iPad game fused together.”

    Josh Rupp @ P3 game discussion — Describes hybrid nature of Multimorphic's P3 system

  • “Zach is sending some personal parts out of his collection to make sure that this customer gets taken care of because he knows how much this game means to him.”

Entities

Josh RupppersonScott LarsonpersonZach MenypersonNicole MenypersonGeorge GomezpersonSeth DavispersonJack DangerpersonSteve BowenpersonJerry Stellenbergperson

Signals

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern doubling CNC playfield machines and achieving higher daily game output post-COVID through manufacturing optimization

    high · George Gomez stated Stern now produces more games per day than pre-COVID, has 2 CNC machines with orders placed to double capacity

  • ?

    technology_signal: Spike 3 platform in active development at Stern to maintain technology parity with evolving OS standards and replace DMD/LCD legacy systems

    high · George Gomez announced Spike 3 development, noting 4-5 year cycle alignment with Nintendo/PlayStation release patterns and necessity to replace aging DMD technology

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern launching connectivity system for games to track player behavior, mode difficulty data, and operator machine health monitoring

    high · Josh and Scott tested web-based Stern connectivity system at Expo, noted badge notifications and operator remote monitoring capabilities mentioned by George Gomez

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Mark Seiden (Metroid homebrew designer) hired by Jersey Jack Pinball as primary designer

    high · Josh and Scott confirmed JJP hiring of Mark Seiden after playing his Metroid homebrew game at Expo

  • ?

    community_signal: Homebrew games receiving significant Expo platform with multiple standout entries (Sonic, Metroid, Greek Gods, Castlevania, Boys Night Out) attracting sustained player interest

    high · Josh and Scott extensively covered homebrew section, noted crowd sizes and design depth, reported American Pinball homebrew hiring challenge

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.256

0:00
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. I am Josh Rupp. With me, my co-captain as always. Scott Larson. And Scott, we went to Expo. We met the hardest, we met the busiest... The hardest working man in pinball sales, right? Exactly. And if you haven't hooked up with Zach Meny and Nicole Meny over at Flip N Out Pinball, I saw firsthand this weekend how hard they work for their customer. It was like bedtime and we were heading back to our room and I walk past Zach and he's showing someone an escalera going up and down the stairs. I'm like, dude, it's time for bed. But he wanted, he did great. He talked to everyone that came up and wanted to talk to him. I mean, he really is great on customer service. We have a friend right now that's having an issue with Godzilla. Zach is sending some personal parts out of his collection to make sure that this customer gets taken care of because he wants he knows how much this game means to him and so zach goes the extra mile and i'm glad i'm proud to say he uh he takes care of us you know yeah no it's good uh the man that escalera is really impressive in person um i was able to get a used escalera and it it needs to it needs some tlc it needs to be resurrected a little bit but i saw the new ones and i was thinking man i Maybe I'll sell this Escalera and pick up a new one because they looked that good. So who knows? If you want a project Escalera, reach out to me. But if you want a new Escalera, reach out to Zach. So we went to Expo and I think I've listened to plenty of the coverage from Expo.
1:45
I think we have quite the interesting different take because we did stuff differently than a lot of people that went to Expo. Scott Danesi, I didn't know what to expect. And so I think I spread myself thin. I don't know about you, Scott, but I did like a knee jerk reaction and entered the tournament on top of everything else. Scott Danesi, Yeah. Scott Danesi, That was probably a bad idea. Scott Danesi, Well, the challenge, though, is when you look at it, this is a casualty of the way they schedule it. And I was a little surprised that I and I flew in Wednesday night. So we have Thursday, Friday and Saturday. And most of the stuff, the seminars were going on, but on Thursday night and Friday night, you didn't even get into the vendor area until about 6 p.m. Yeah. And I think it was slightly different like on Friday and Saturday. Saturday was there all day, but we did the pinball Olympics, which we'll talk about. But I wish there was a little bit more time in the, that we could get into the vendor John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams, Theater, John Popadiuk, Bally Williams, Theater, John Popadiuk, Theater, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, I got in at 1130 because the flights had went like just smooth as butter and got there and I'm waiting for a Lyft car and I'm watching the GPS on my phone and they're like going zigzag it's like oh they're three minutes away no they're seven minutes away no they're five minutes away what the heck is going on this person pulls up I get in the car right and the first thing they say to me is oh don't mind the noise I hit something on the way here and my I was like, car's making a funny noise now, but we'll get you to where you need to go. I was like, is this a good sign or a bad sign, right? Confidence building. Exactly. And it was a 20 minute drive from the airport to the hotel, and it took this person like 35 minutes because for some odd reason they kept doing circles on the off ramps. Anywho, long story short, I got there safe. So I got there at 1.30 in the morning, woke you up. We went to bed, got up the next morning. The seminars had started with the virtual tour of Stern, which kind of stinks that we didn't get to go in person. But the cool part about the virtual tour is there was a lot more to see because they were able to get you into areas that you wouldn't be able to go otherwise. They were able to... It was Jack Danger. I'm sorry, I can't remember who his cameraman was, but they were able to get in the designer's area, show the cubicles, stuff like that. There was a lot of information there. I just wanted to share some highlights. What did you like from it first? You're 100% right in that if you have 80 people, there's no chance they could have gone through all the locations we went through. You would have been on the factory floor. I mean, it's an assembly line, just like most factories are. And you would have been focused just on John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. JJP's there, American Pinball's there. Where during the expo, they are so busy. They are, yes. And so it's, uh, and you know, it would have been nice to get a, uh, to get a, a small tour, but really it would have been us and like 400 other people who said, hey, I'm into pinball, can you just show me around the factory? Exactly. So it just, it just doesn't work out. But I, I thought all things considered, they did a good job. I agree. Gomez narrated, Jack Danger was on the other side narrating in the factory. Some of the things he had said Stern is making more games now per day than they were pre-COVID. So that's pretty impressive. COVID shut them down for three months. At four shut down. But in that time, they re-evaluated how they were manufacturing. They were able to cut out some of the dead weight and become more efficient in manufacturing. So they actually felt like COVID helped them more than it hurt them at some points. They have two CNC machines now for playfields and they are doubling that. They should have that shortly. Gomez didn't give a timeframe, but he said that they've essentially ordered the CNC machines for their playfields and they should be here soon. Let's see. One of the other interesting parts too is he was talking about fixing the lower cabinets on the Stern machines. I guess just recently they fixed the upper cabinets by going mostly metal. So they were kind of looking at doing something like that with the bottom cabinet and helping cut costs and it'd be a little more efficient because the back boxes become really efficient. And not only assembly, but also on the line and whatnot. I think it was also lighter weight too, but I don't think that was the driving force. I think he said clean up some issues. And so certainly it does make things, it modernizes things. So you're going to lose slightly a feel of an older cabinet, but you know what? If you can maneuver things a little easier and it ends up being more compact and efficient, then that's the way to go. Yep.

Josh Rupp @ opening section — Highlights Zach Meny's customer service dedication

Ryan McQuaid
person
Mark Seidenperson
Keith Elwinperson
Gary Sternperson
Rob Burkeperson
Jeff Theolisperson
Dave Fixperson
Stern Pinballcompany
American Pinballcompany
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
Flip N Out Pinballcompany
Multimorphic (P3)company
Riot Pinballcompany
Chicago Pinball Expoevent
  • ?

    design_innovation: P3 system demonstrating fusion of physical pinball mechanics with digital screen integration as viable commercial format

    medium · Josh praised P3 games (Heists, Sorcerer) as 'pinball-y' hybrid with iPad-like mechanics, noted potential for ticket redemption venues

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: American Pinball showing marked improvement with Legends of Valhalla (homebrew collaboration) and P3 games receiving positive reception vs prior release concerns

    medium · Josh called Legends of Valhalla 'a big step forward for American Pinball' and praised Steve Bowen's engagement; noted P3 enjoyment exceeded expectations

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Sega permitting homebrew IP use for non-commercial Sonic projects while Nintendo/Disney maintain stricter enforcement, affecting homebrew designer choices

    medium · Ryan McQuaid noted Sonic's openness to hobbyist IP use vs Nintendo/Disney's restrictive stance; nonetheless Metroid and Castlevania homebrews exist at Expo

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball formalizing homebrew-to-production pathway via Ron Hallett Challenge to identify and hire designer talent

    high · Josh and Scott reported American Pinball challenge offering design/production opportunities to Expo homebrew presenters; Scott noted this mirrors Keith Elwin's discovery path

  • ?

    event_signal: Expo scheduling (vendor hall opens 6pm Thu/Fri, all day Sat) and venue size (large convention center vs partitioned rooms) affecting attendee experience and vendor access

    medium · Josh and Scott discussed limited early vendor access, large open floor plan requiring extensive walking, and scheduling conflicts with seminars

  • ?

    content_signal: Stern virtual factory tour enabling media and attendees to access factory areas (designer cubicles, assembly line) normally restricted from in-person tours

    high · Josh noted Jack Danger virtual tour showed designer area and cubicles; noted 80 in-person visitors couldn't access same depth vs remote camera access

  • ?

    product_concern: Multiple Expo machines (Legends of Valhalla, Metroid, Greek Gods) showing weak flipper power and adjustment issues due to 12-hour daily convention play stress testing

    medium · Josh reported weak bottom flippers on Legends of Valhalla; Scott noted weak flippers on Metroid; both attributed to thermal/endurance tuning for convention use vs real-world scenarios

    • 7:55
    Including vendors, people that make parts, all that stuff for Stern, they estimate anywhere from 12,000 to 15,000 people's how many they employ for Stern. And so obviously don't make all their own product, but they're counting, you know, people that make the sculpts that, uh, all down to the, even the little bits and screws, I guess. So, and then the last thing that I thought was very interesting is Gomez had then announced that spike three is in development. Uh, he said that pretty much technology is moving on and they need to keep up with it. And because of that, they are implemented there. They are now starting to work on spike three. Yeah. And that doesn't, that shouldn't surprise anybody. And you watch any, it's basically, it follows an operating system timeline of like Nintendo or PlayStation or something like that, where it has become almost like a mini video game operating system. So in those, those cycles last anywhere from four to five years. So being able to make sure you keep up with technology. I mean, if you think about it, open the back, open the back box of any game in the, in the eighties or nineties. And now look open a back box and it looks completely different because the the computer technology has overtaken any sort of the you know the fuses and the in the bits of wire that they used to do and so it's so much better and more reliable really.
    9:21
    I agree and I think one of the points that they'd kind of made too as well is like the LCD screens are kind of becoming obsolete and everything's turning to 4k so I think that's kind of one of the Mike
    10:02
    The typical DMD. It looks significantly dated if you don't have the LCD in there. So it's you have to keep up. Otherwise, it just looks sad. So the virtual tour ends. Gomez is there. Gary Stern has arrived. The new president, Seth Davis, is there. Jack Danger had actually finished the virtual part and had already made it back to Expo. So that tells you how close the new convention was to Stern itself. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams, Straight Out the Middle, Bally Williams, Straight Out the Middle, So it was it was pretty cool. That was the most packed seminar I saw out of all of them. It was pretty front to back with just people. And it was a good vibe. It really was. Yeah, I thought that was good. And it was a it was a good look for pinball. It feel it feels like Stern has embraced their their front runner status. And they are taking the lead in in both volume and in also forward thinking. The new president of Stern, Seth Davis, he has a history of like the Walt Disney World and ESPN and the subscription based streaming services, which is, I understand people's people feeling nervous because a lot of the nice things about pinball machines is that you buy it and it's done. You have paid. It's an outdoor out the door cost. Right. And so I understand why people are nervous when you start implementing some sort of possible subscription thing. But the way I look at it is I have no idea where it's going to go down in the future. Currently, it's just free. And it could be that in the future, if you want to add something, and this is me completely speculating, then it's an optional service. Now if you're reading this and I do see it being a huge thing and George Gomez says we need to walk before we run and so people were talking about you know privacy concerns and and everything associated with some sort of integrated thing but I felt that it was a very good thing and he was talking about look this this will give us more information on games and so it'll tell us what modes are done and and how often these things happen and so this is one of the best feedbacks they could possibly get on Being able to implement new code updates in games. Because if there's a mode that just no one gets to because it's too difficult, then they can actually look at that. I also look at this as a great troubleshooting option because it, just like on your car, you take your car into the dealer, what's the first thing they do? They hook it up to a computer and say, oh, well, this is the error. So I know they have a system like that in the service menu, but most people, I'd say the average pinball player is unfamiliar with the service menu. So I say that as being a huge plus. And so we'll see where this goes. I'm sure there will be people who like the new integration. I thought, I guess let's transition to the Stern connectivity then. What did you think? I thought it was a lot of fun. You and I both signed up. Josh signed up first, so he got Loser Kid. I signed up second, so I got Loser Kid, the number two.
    13:38
    And I thought it was just kind of fun because you would be playing a game and a little badge would pop up and said, "'Hey, you just achieved this,' or, "'You just did this.'" And it really didn't affect the game much, but I thought it was kind of fun. And especially because I'm not really a score chaser, I like a completion aspect of the game. To say, hey, I've done Chaos Multiball, or hey, I've gone this pathway on Jurassic Park, or hey, I've been able to start this multiball that I've never done before. So I thought that was a lot of fun. And it seemed really easy. Currently, it's web-based, but I'm sure there's an app in development. I enjoyed it. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, We're playing Godzilla and I know that I had put my phone on my name popped up as player 4 and then the next thing I know I'm playing but I'm playing what we thought was player 4 and all of a sudden I'm playing I think it was your ball wasn't at the very first ball yes something like that yeah and I'm like where did I go and so it looks like there's a couple bugs that's honest at me that's it was super it was very slick yeah other than that it did really well I like to try it out I think it's gonna be huge I I, this will be a big push to get people onto locations because they can look up and say, hey, there is a linked machine that is out there and it's at this location so they can go to it. Also, even George Gomez was saying this is going to be a huge benefit for operators because operators will be able to see if a game is functioning. Because if you're running a route, especially depending on how big your area is, you're typically not going to stop off there every day. And you're probably going to stop off once a month. And if you're, if you, you know, the weekends are probably when you're making most money. So if you just don't know that your game's off or there's an issue, because, you know, the waiter, the bartender, or the amusement center, the movie theater, So, that's not their gig. They're not going to focus on making sure your games are running. And so, having an ability to say, oh, this is down. I noticed this in my hot tub. I have a hot tub and I'll get a message, hey, your hot tub lost connectivity. Is everything okay? Is the power down? And so, that keeps it up. And so, I see a very similar thing with Insider. So, the Stern tour ends. You and I look at each other, we're like, what do we do? The vendor hall doesn't really open until six. We were kind of working with Zach Meny with Flip N Out and I was like, we'll just walk in like we own the place and go help in the vendor area with Zach. And you're like, I don't know about this. I'm like, no, just walk through like you own the place and they won't even question you. So we start walking through and Scott gets through and a lady tries to stop us. She's like, where are you going? She didn't stop. She just asked. And I said- Yeah, she's like, where are you going? What did you say? I said, I'm with Flip N Out, and I just kept walking. And you, like, book it, and all of a sudden she flips around, and she's, like, right in front of me, and she's like, what did he say? Where are you going? And I'm like, we're helping with Flip N Out. And she's like, what are you even talking about? Like, she starts quite giving me, like, the fifth degree, and Rob Burke's daughter walks over and is like, they're good, they're fine, let them through. And so you were already gone, and so I get up there and I'm like, what are you doing? I was already in the vendor hall, so. Yeah. This is an aging world of the city blocks. It's huge. So I we never went to the old one I heard that the old one was more partitioned into a whole bunch of small rooms. Okay. The plus and minus of this was it was a very typical convention center feel. Yes, and Comic-Con if you're right. If you go to any of these things, I mean it's it's basically like a giant John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Larry K. Sheats Jr., All of these are great places to play pinball. And there were also a lot of vendor booths that you could go and see. Yeah. So you had to walk through Freeplay to get to the vendor. And we got into the vendor area and the very first place we go is Legends of Valhalla. And Steve Bowden's there. We ran over, congratulated him. Like, congratulations man. Again, it is fantastic that you're with American Pinball. I hope they put you to great use. It looked like... I mean, that man's enthusiasm for pinball is through the roof. We're sitting there playing Legends of Valhalla and he's just soaking in all the information we'll give him, what we think, what we don't think, he's giving us ideas of what he's gonna do. He's already like, he's only been there what, a week and a half is what he said? Yeah. And he was already telling us how he's gonna balance this rule and that rule. It was very awesome. And my only suggestion to him out of all of it was the flipper power at the bottom was really weak, so you were barely hitting that center ramp. And he'd mentioned they were nervous because of these games being played 12 hours a day, that they turned down the flipper power to make sure that they didn't overheat and stuff like that, which I get. I get it. It's challenging because at, you know, even at a bar location or an arcade location, you're not going to get a thousand plays like in a day, but at a convention you will, and it It will be consistently moving the whole time. And so they, it's hard because I know some people didn't have like a, they were questioning how well it flows because obviously at a convention you have to make some modifications. I actually went in and so the night before I was there and I met Jeff Theolis in person and we actually went back and Dave Fix took us and we played the game. So we played it when it was cold, when it was set up and it wasn't overheated. And like it wasn't used like all the other machines. And this isn't unique to American Pinball. There's you have heard these things from other vendors during other expos. But I played it and it was I thought it was a lot of fun. Legends of Valhalla, just to refresh your memory. This is a it was a homebrew game that American people contracted out. It's with Riot Pinball and Scott from Riot Pinball. He's the one who developed it and did the storyline. And so, you know, the art that Scott did and, you know,
    20:49
    it's basically a Viking who's away marauding and comes back and finds his home is ransacked and burned
    20:59
    and his family is murdered. And so he goes through this journey and eventually his wife comes back as the Valkyrie. And so that's the whole storyline of Valhalla. But I actually thought it was a solid game.
    21:14
    I thought it was a big step forward for American Pinball And it was a really solid showing at the show So it was great to talk to Steve and just get our hands on the game We went and talked to Zach many, but he was running around like with a chicken with his head cut off because he was still trying to get all set up.
    21:35
    So we moved over to P3, got to talk to Jerry, Jerry, Jerry Stellenberg, and we played heists and then we played Sorcerer. And they were both, I thought they were really fun. It is fun. It seems a little bit like a hybrid. I understand when people say it doesn't feel like pinball because what they're used to is they're used to a, you know, a physical game without the augmentation. This felt very pinball-y to me, but it also felt like a pinball machine and an iPad game fused together. And so it has a lot of those similar aspects where instead of using your finger, you're using the ball and you're using flippers. The flippers were solid. They were uniquely designed to float above the screen. And I thought it was a lot of fun. And I think for the right market, this actually could be a really big, big hit. No, just like everything. It's not for everybody. However, I felt that it still was quite fun. And in many ways, I could see this being a huge hit at Ticket Redemption Centers because you can have very similar type games where the goal is to, you know, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, I thought it was really fun. I actually thought it shot really well.
    23:28
    My only, I guess my only complaint, I don't know, we kind of discussed this with some other people as well, and they brought it up, but when the game is turned off, it's not a very pretty game off. Well, it looks like a power down computer because it is a power down computer.
    23:46
    If your art is wholly tied to the electronic activation of the screen, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi.
    24:22
    Overall, I really enjoyed it. I actually think I enjoyed the P3 more than any some of the other games I played there. It was very creative. It was really fun to see pinball taking a different avenue. It's not the same thing as your standard game, but everything doesn't have to be your standard game. Right there by American Pinball on P3 and flipping out was the homebrews. I know we didn't hit those till day three, but I want to insert them here. I didn't get to play Sonic, but you did, right, Scott? I did. I played Sonic. There's always so many people there. And so that's always a good sign that's doing good, right? Yeah. So I talked with Ryan McQuaid, who actually designed Sonic, and they had a homebrew seminar. So I would say the homebrews that seemed to bubble up with the most integration were Sonic the Hedgehog. There was a Metroid themed game. There was also a Castlevania themed game. There was one that was called Boys Night Out. And that was someone who was interesting because he was actually in movies and he made the movie and he ended up making the pinball machine too. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Pinball Machine 2, that was in a very basic phase but it was it was still interesting to play and there there were a few others too.
    25:46
    They had a T&A machine there which I thought was kind of fun. But the music was off for some odd reason. Yeah, it was. Yeah. You're missing Greek gods which I thought was very impressive. Yeah.
    26:00
    Yeah, and that was the one that had the lower playfield, right? Yep. That had and you couldn't see it until You had completed something and the screen that was in the bottom of the playfield that you did, almost like the size of Black Hole or Haunted House. Yeah, but it was actually a bigger playfield underneath. It had a magnifying glass down there. So that was a lot of fun. But Ryan's game was pretty awesome from what you were telling me. It was great because now the good news is he talked about this in the seminar that he specifically found that Sonic is very, very free with using their intellectual property, their assets for hobbyists. And so he was able to use like primary sources for the animations for Sonic, and he was able to use like their animations and their art. And it was, you know, because this is not a money making venture. However, if they did move to a commercial venture, then I'm sure that's when licensing would come in. But he said he wasn't too worried about Sega really doing anything just because it was, they were very friendly with hobbyists. Nintendo and Disney tend to be a little less, I guess, welcoming in that sense. I still feel that there would be less likelihood that you would get in trouble for something that you made on your own because it's a home project. They do home art that people do on their own. But he felt freer, I guess. But hey, we had a Metroid and a Castlevania one there, so I doubt that Nintendo really cares those were made. So, but I saw Sonic felt very good. It still feels like it's a homebrew and that it does need it would need to go through some iterations before it became a production machine. The ramps felt fun. And one of the cool ramps that is they actually had a loop to loop ramp like in Sonic the Hedgehog. And it was it was hooked up to a kicker. And so it loaded it and then it went through the loop and came around. Yeah. Ramps seemed wide and easy to hit, but that was also a positive because you got used to the game. Yeah. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. And same thing with Metroid. Metroid was really good. I thought the theme integration was really good. And he's the one who was just hired at Jersey Jack, though, as a primary designer. Yes. Mark Seiden. Yes. Tim Kitzrow, Steven Kitzroff, and I didn't get to talk to the other designers except for the Boys Night Out. Well, I want to pause you there because I played Metroid and I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I played a little bit, but you played a lot of it. So my only complaint is I wish I could take this game home. There is a lot of depth to this game and I want to explore it. The back glass animations are amazing. It's very cool that he's He's taken the concept of Metroid. If you've never played Metroid, I don't know how to explain it to you, but because it's its own genre of video game. Well, you can you can definitely say it's basically a it's a space. It's a space game where you're fighting aliens and your hero is your protagonist is a female. But you're exploring the map like you would in Metroid from room to room. Right. Stuff like that. Yeah. I guess one of my only complaints is, besides the I can't take it home, the flippers did feel a little weak. I felt like I couldn't hit certain areas of the game. Once again, we were expo. Who knows? It's hard to make 100% like this is what's going on at a show. Did you question whether or not it was your deficient talent level? Maybe. That's a good possibility. But seriously, it's a really cool game. And I'm glad that JJP picked them up. Let's talk Boys Night Out because this game, I still know how to feel about this game. Okay, it was very, it was very basic. Yes. The animations were really good. Well, okay, it was animation. It was actually clips from the movie. Yes. And so the challenging things, the theme, I think veers into maybe stereotypical boys behavior. And so it felt a little bit like if you've ever seen the Vince Vaughn movie Swingers, Adopt Punk
    31:13
    So, they're sitting there just kind of chilling in the car and so you don't really know what to do because there's really no call outs or anything. So, you're hitting a bunch of shots and I had started a mode called urination station and I figured I'd see something, but I guess I wasn't hitting the right stuff and so it still was just the two dudes. So, you weren't hitting anything in the urination station? I guess. Because obviously it paused and they said their thing that they saved the movie and then it showed them back in the car, right? Yeah. I was like, okay, it was a decent game. It was a good start. I'd like to see more. Theme doesn't necessarily resonate with me, but not everything does. Yeah, I guess we could go watch the movie and see if it does resonate with us. Could be. After that, Castlevania. Holy crap, that game was brutal. It was hard, yeah. Well, Castlevania is brutal, so it made sense. Exactly. The original Nintendo Entertainment one, you would get to a certain level and you would just leave the game on and I don't mean that to sound insulting, I actually mean that to sound like, this is a really cool home project. And then I think the last one that we hit all of them was Greek gods, which was the most impressive one that wasn't a theme. Well, it's a theme, but like I didn't recognize what they were going for kind of. Right. I think they did. They did a great job on that. And that was really impressive that they were able to layer the modes so you actually go to the underworld. And that was more than I anticipated a homebrew would do. Yes. And so that was, I think they took a lead from, I guess a hint from the Kroll machine, because I think that playfield underneath the main playfield is actually a lot bigger than you think. It's a possibility. Because you're using it with the telescopic lens. There was a knee button that he installed on the coin door. And if you held it in, you could control the pop bumpers up top, if I remember correctly. But it killed your flippers down below, so you had to decide when to use the knee button. The callouts were amazing. The animations were great. They all looked like they were hand-done animations. I guess my only one complaint about that game is... So in the game, there's this big wire form that goes from the left side of the playfield to the right side of the playfield. It goes all the way around back of the playfield and makes a big horseshoe, right? Mm-hmm. And it's like a captive ball and the powerball's in there, but it's crucial to hit this thing because it changes the diverter. You swapped, yes. Where you hit the powerball, it actually is where the diverter goes, so. But I could never get the powerball. I hit it as hard as I could and I could never get that thing to go around. Oh really? I was able to. Okay. So I was able to get that to go around. Once he told us that that's how you change the diverter, there was a center ramp that went two ways, right and left, and that's how you change the diverter was by moving the powerball. But it was such a big horseshoe, I could never get around. I'm glad you did. Yeah. But honestly, if that's your one hiccup, that's easy change. It was a really solid homebrew. Yes, and it's one people should keep an eye on because it's impressive. It's up there with Sonic and Metroid in my opinion. Going on with the homebrew, we should talk about the American Pinball announcement where they gave a challenge. Yeah, so American Pinball, the Ron Hallett challenge where they said to bring a homebrew machine and they will present it, you present it and they will vote on it. They have a possibility of hiring you to design a pinball machine or to produce your pinball machine. So I thought that was very cool. And considering if you want to be a pinball designer, that is the best way to do it because it well, it's the most predictable way because for a company, and that's exactly how Keith Elwin was when George called and said, Hey, are you going to be at Expo? So he had heard about Archer or someone had talked to him about it and he was interested in looking at it. And so that's how Keith got in. Scott Danesi designed T&A as a homebrew. And so coming through the homebrew avenue is not a bad way if you're really considering. And Jack Danger too, he was working on his homebrew. Yeah, he said that's the best resume you could have for if you want to join up a pinball company. Well, if you want to be a designer. Yeah. That kind of wraps up the home brews. It was weird because like we said, the vendors didn't really open until six. We kind of went through, played some Godzilla, really enjoyed that game. I cannot wait for mine to show up. I know that mine's after the beginning of the year. Any thoughts of Godzilla really quick? Godzilla had the best showing. It was the it felt like you know it felt like it's a predictable great design from the Elwin team in that everything felt smooth everything felt well thought out it looks it looks beautiful the art is fantastic with Jeremy Packer AKA Zombie Yeti and the the flow it just seems and
    37:30
    I'm like, I don't fully understand why they're calling this a bash toy. It's a tight shot, but it's not hard to hit. It's like a 50-50. But even if you hit those blue bumpers, it still gives you damage towards that building. Everything felt great. Three spinners, holy crap. Playing ebora and having to knock down those spinners and then get a multiball. I loved it. It was, I cannot say enough good about this game. I'm excited for it in my collection. I played a ton of Stern games this weekend and it showed the best out of all of them. It did. It really had, that was basically the coming out party for Godzilla. And it's not really taking away anything from the other big manufacturer that had a lot of games there was JJP. And they had Guns N' Roses. And it's not really taking anything away from Guns N' Roses, but Guns N' Roses has been out for about a year. So I think people have at least had some experience with it. With Godzilla, this was really the first time most people had played it. And the code was really good. It felt very solid. The seminar when Keith was talking about the designing of it, and they had Rick Nagel and Harrison Drake there and Zombie Yeti, all of them seemed like they worked really well together. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. Which were nice. They had some of the other games. They had Narrow Smith there. They also had a Deadpool there. The Virus House of Horrors, the 40th. The Virus House of Horrors. They had an Iron Maiden there. So they had all these ones that were there. Yeah, we'll talk about the 40th. They had all these things and they were all set up to Stern Insider, the connectivity. So, insider connected, and that was really smart, so people could try that out. Yep, I agree. I enjoyed it. I think it's a very good showing for the connectivity as well. I think so too. Okay, so Elvira. Oh, go ahead. Oh, well, yeah, go ahead and tell Elvira, but I want to get to Jack Danger's game, because we did play Jurassic Park as well. Yep, so let's start with Elvira. I think this is a great move for Stern. The, it does feel like, hey, this is a premium product. And if you want a premium product, you're going to be charged a premium price. So if you happen to be an Elvira fan and you have a lot of money and you want to buy this game, it looked good. It looked like a good showing. The, it is certainly going after a certain demographic. It is a high-end collector demographic who wants a combination of exclusivity and a blinged-out Elvira machine. And I think it connected on both levels. I don't have a problem with them doing this because you can still buy a standard Elvira for the price, and it will have all the functionality of the 40th Anniversary Edition. I went back and forth a little bit with one of our friends here in Utah where he was concerned that if people ordered these House of Horrors machines and they put them off to do a limited edition machine, I countered by saying, I don't think they're going to retool the entire line and run 199. Yeah. So this would be, hey, we are running an Elvira House of Horrors and included in that run is going to be these 199, which are going to be a premium cost for that the distributors, they are paying a higher cost for this. This is not a standard pro price that they are buying from them. So the distributors are paying more for this game, but they're also charging more too, because it's to the discretion of the dealer. Most of them went for about $29,000. That's the going rate. Some were going for as low as $25,000. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Ballywin, Straight Down the Middle, Ballywin, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Ballywin Straight Down the Middle Ballywin The Valley Company Subsidiary of Walter Kidde Co Inc Mirco Playfields Tim Kitzrow Yeah on almost every front So I just looked at it went awesome Not for me but for the Elvira fans It is perfect for them Yeah Jack Danger game Jack Danger game talk about it Yeah Jack Danger game is very impressive for a stripped down Stern game That is aiming for I would say a budget Stern game Okay, a budget certain so stripped down stripped down makes it feel like it's they took a lot of stuff out John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. Yeah, I got a jump ramp. It shot really well. It would go really well in someone's home collection. The one quote that I heard and I'm going to repeat it, I'm going to steal from Jeff Teolas is he said the major complaint that he could hear from people is that it doesn't have a coin, a coin door. And so you can't put it on location in its current state. And I agree with him. I think that this would be a good location game because it is that fun. It was, um, it was a solid effort, um, by a rookie designer in Jack Danger, and it showed really well. Yep. I agree, my only complaint is the, how small the screen is. But I've come, become accustomed to what they have now on, on a regular, quote, regular size pinball machine. Which, everything's regular size except for the head on these things. It's the same size playfield and all that jazz, so. Really good game though, I enjoyed it. Jack did a good job. He said that he got a lot of input and he tried to soak up as much as he could as a sponge, like a sponge.
    44:44
    We played some GNR. Honestly, it's a fun game. I felt like it had the weakest flippers even behind Valhalla.
    44:53
    But it's a great light show and the music's rocking on there. It is a beautiful machine. I stick with my initial assessment on GNR in that It is an experiential machine. So it focuses on being able to say, hey, I feel like I'm at the concert. I feel like I'm really in there. And it's, it's fun. It is, I'm sure you can change the settings. It's very multiball and ball saver heavy in the current setup. Now that you can always modify those things. So it was, but it was, it was a lot of fun and it's, it probably is the prettiest machine All these are the top 10 pinball shows that I've ever seen. I agree. It is over the top pretty. We talked with Eric. Eric was great. That must be a rough life. We're sitting there talking to Eric, and some guy just walks up and he's like, Eric, I told you I'd buy you a beer. So he hands him a beer. It's like, okay, good job. Yeah. He's like, thanks. No. Eric, it was interesting talking to him because he was talking about having the Ellie, the The LE number, and I do want to talk about this, the LE number where he's like, this was kind of a gut feeling of like, okay, so how many can we possibly make? He's like, I was shooting high in $5,000, or excuse me, 5,000 games, but he said, actually, it feels like we're going to hit that. Like we're probably going to sell out here because it was that and I was like and that that is that's his wildest dreams of being able to do such a great showing on the game and I understand why people do it because it it is a fun game that you would have in a home collection on location probably plays a little long and I think people would have to adjust the settings because it is a long playing game. Yeah, it is beautiful. When you have one of the band members provide all those assets, then it is a designer's dream, I'm sure. And that kind of did it for the vendor area for us. I was like, well, there's so much time between now and when the actual vendor hall opens and kind of some of the other stuff that's going on. I decided to enter the tournament. I didn't fully understand how it worked because I haven't played one of that caliber. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Ballywin, Straight Down the Middle, Ballywin, I can't realize that like they added up your score and then it was like the top 100 people on that machine got points. And you know, the number one being getting 100, the number 100 getting one point. I wish I had played a little bit harder. I got frustrated because there was just so many people and the wait times were long. So I went up to the front and said, hey, is it better to try now when there's like eight to nine people waiting for a machine or do I come back later? They said that, you know, it could get worse as it gets later on in the day. And so I just kind of stuck it out, but I didn't play my 12, my 12 stuff, my 12 entries. I just played eight. And I kind of regret doing that because I wanted to be higher up in B and because wherever you, wherever you landed dictates where you have to play up from the bottom. Right. It's, it's a ladder system. So you get buys if you, if you're higher up. So it makes sense. Did you at least have fun? I had fun. About halfway through on Friday, I was just like, I'm kind of burned out. I wasn't super fighting hard because there's so much going on at Expo and I felt like I was kind of not confined to the tournament. Well, I was confined to the tournament area at one point because one of the games had ran long. The game in between that hadn't even started yet. So I was there at two or three, whatever time I was supposed to be there. The other two games hadn't even taken place before me. But I couldn't go anywhere because what happens if they finish their games and I'm not there? I don't want to be disqualified for not being there. I waited around like an hour and a half for all the stuff to happen. And anywho, I just, I think I was burned out by the end of it. So I was kind of glad when I was done. But other than that, we, what, we hit lunch with Tealess on Thursday. Was it Thursday night we went to dinner with, with Tealess? I think it was Friday. That was Friday. Okay. So we did lunch with, with Tealess on Thursday. Um, caught up with him. Wonderful man. Like I cannot say enough good about that dude. I know he'll never take it. He'll never claim to it, but he's a really good dude. And Jeff is, uh, I was actually chatting back and forth with him is that just one of those guys who's, he is exactly who you think he's going to be. Yeah. And that he is, uh, he's as nice in person and as personable and approachable as you would imagine. And he was super nice. And, and by the way, that goes for. Really everybody that we met for the first time in person.
    50:02
    And we met a lot. And we met the poor man's tribe and- Yeah, we hung out with them Thursday night. We hung out with them a lot and that was a lot of fun. We saw Ron Hallett and Ron Hallett is a great guy, super knowledgeable and that was fun to talk about. He even pointed out the Beavis and Butthead arcade game that was never released. And so it was like a Simpsons basher type game. So I went and played it for a little bit. We saw Jeff Teolos, you know, we met Chris Koulouris of Kaneda. We saw him sitting by himself drinking a drink. Well, he was relaxed. He was between events and he was just sitting there and we went over and talked with him. And legitimately, he was very personable, very nice, and very approachable. So it was actually good to catch up with him. I was going to say, we really didn't even talk pinball with him. We sat down, we talked about our families, we exchanged stories. He showed us his baby, I showed him my babies. I mean, it was... I think that was the one thing I did enjoy about Expo is there's so much drama and stuff on Pinside and Facebook and stuff like that. I was kind of nervous going to an Expo because I was afraid maybe some of it would bubble John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. I'm a fan of Joe's. He's a super, super easy to talk to too. You know, an enthusiast from Delaware. So that was, that's a lot of fun, what Joe's doing. He just started the collective out there on the second floor, which I think that was an interesting choice. But you know, you take what you can get. Well, what made me chuckle too is like, if you did the vendor stuff, you ran into certain people. Yeah. But if you did the tournament stuff, you ran into an entirely different set of people. So when I did the tournament, I ran to Raymond Davidson, I ran to Tim Sexton, I ran to Kate Martin, Jen Ruper, she was wonderful, she was really nice to talk to. There's a group that we're in, we met Zach, which is famous from the Slam Tilt podcast when he guest stars, Stephanie, it was nice to meet her. I mean there was just a ton of people that I don't think I ever saw outside of the tournament. All of these are great. Oh, well, I think they were spending a lot of time in the tournament, in running that tournament. And Raymond, you know, he was playing deep in that, and he played deep into classics on Saturday, or on Sunday. Tom Graff, he was doing all the streaming. He even invited us on stream at one point. We chit-chatted with Joel Engelberth. That was Friday. Got dinner with them. I mean, it just, it was really cool to talk to all these people and just get to know a lot of them. I want to say thank you to Joel though because we didn't take a vehicle because obviously we're from Utah so we flew in but Joel drove up to Expo and so he was nice enough to let us tag along on a lot of the mishaps that we had done. Yeah, also shout out to Dan Costa, Sacramento area, so talked with him a lot. He's relatively new to pinball. Yep. Nice dude. Very nice dude. Fun catching up with that guy. And yeah, there was just a lot of really good options that we had. So let's talk Friday. I noticed you typed something here. What happened Friday with CGC? So CGC, they had an announcement. It was what's happening with Chicago Gaming, Ryan White. And it felt like they were announcing Cactus Canyon, but it didn't feel like they had time to prepare a lot. Yeah. So, Ryan, he was there. It was a little late. He's a super nice guy. We talked to him while he was setting things up. And basically, it was a, here's Cactus Canyon. We think we dialed, we're working on the, the, the numbers and, and it felt like it was kind of last minute rushing to get everything all set up for this. And I'm sure it is rushing to get it.
    54:28
    Apparently it's 90, 92.50 for the LE, 8,000 for the special edition. The, there is a Lyman Sheets and Josh Sharp code that is being developed. It will not be a sequentially updated code, but it will be a single, single after, well, available option for your Cactus Canyon that once it's done, it's done. It's not going to take multiple iterations. And this is the first time that we're getting to the, hey, if you want extra code or an updated code set, then you're going to be paying for it. Julian Balk спортfounder 28- WHITENESS
    55:41
    And now the new one. And the new one's just bright and shiny. They've really polished it up. They've made it look good. They've made it sound good. They've redone some of the art. They've modernized it. Even the animations on the screen were fantastic. It felt almost 3D and like the gold mine multiball. It felt really good. I'm intrigued to see what Lyman and Josh are going to do. I think they're going to probably do a tournament style.
    56:11
    It's a little harder because the code set that was there, like we waited for to get on the pinball machine. The gentleman in front of us like destroyed it. Like I think he got to high noon or something like that and then walked away. So the code was made was the way the games were set up.
    56:27
    Overall, it looks great. I think anyone that's buying this game is going to enjoy it very thoroughly. If you've enjoyed the other Cactus Canyon remakes, you're going to like this one. I would consider buying it. It really is a good game. And I've owned Attack from Mars and I've owned Monster Bash. Love those games. I think I'm just getting to the point where I need something I can explore a little deeper. And I think Keith Elwin's games do the best for that for me. Well, now, okay, once you get the Lyman code, it will be different. Correct. The Lyman Sharp code. Yes. The one possible criticism I could have for Chicago Gaming is I wish they had time to do a better presentation. I wish I knew a little more about, hey, this is what we were thinking, this is what we were trying to do, this is why we're doing it. Yeah. Um, the, so that, that was disappointed. Um, another aspect is I think they're doing a big miscalculation in that they have the best game, the best complete package game they have includes the topper, includes the art blades, includes everything, but they are limiting themselves by only placing only We're actually making 1250 of them. They need to really consider having it. Their toppers are the best. The only topper that I could say is better is the Black Knight topper. But their toppers are, they're 3D sculpts, they're well lighted, they are interacting with the game. And when you only allow 1250 people to have that option, you are limiting your market. So they need to adopt something like a, their LE, the 1250 or whatever. That needs to be their, their exclusive, whatever you want to call it. The super limited edition, the, the collector's edition, the, the super sunrise edition, whatever you want to call it. They can still do that and charge a premium price for that, but they need to have the The ability for the average collector who is willing to spend money on a game and to be able to update it to get all that effort they have put into that topper. They put a great, it's a shooting gallery up there. There's a guy with rotating hands that reminds me of Hogan's Alley. It's an old Nintendo game from like 1985 and it felt fun. However, if you're willing to spend $8,000, $9,000 on a toy, You want to be able to upgrade it to a the best option like you don't want to feel like oh well I was gonna buy the best version but it sold out and they only had 1250 of them like why would you go to all that effort to develop these really cool toppers if if there's more demand than what you're able to sell I I understand if you're trying to sell you know thousands and you're It takes a while to sell all those out, but these LEs were gone instantaneously. Yep. And so that tells me they need to really adapt their market and allow the special edition people to buy the to buy the topper, to buy to upgrade to whatever version they want to upgrade to. My Medieval Madness, it's not the Royal Edition. It is the the standard edition, but I paid for the the updates. And so I have a topper. I have the light show. I have the bigger panel, whatever that is, the screen. The DMD. Yeah, the DMD. And so it's really nice, but it's not a limited edition. My Medieval Madness isn't a limited edition, but it still feels like a complete game. That's the one One thing about this is if I spent $8,000 for this, I would want to be able to complete the game. And right now, I don't think they're allowing that. But I did suggest to them, so I'm hoping they take that to heart. They should be able to sell these toppers without being linked to only LEs. Friday, so besides CGC, we did go to lunch with Eclectic Gamers. It was awesome to meet Dennis and Tony in person for the first time. The next day, Saturday, Pinball Olympics took over. Luckily, Joel was going, so just another pinball podcast in Triple Drain, Joel Engelberth. He brought along us. Nick Brown, we got to meet him, pinsomniac. Really nice dude. I really enjoyed sitting down talking with him. He was a really cool dude. And we really got to know each other because it was like an hour drive to the location to Banger J's house. And this thing is like if a dude, if a kid grew up and got a bunch of money and loved pinball, decided just to go nuts. Because there were some crazy creations in this house. Okay, so okay, explain, explain what the pinball Olympics are, because a lot of people don't understand what it is. So pinball Olympics are, I asked Banger J where this idea came from. And he said that they really like dollar games. And then it got out of hand. That was literally the whole explanation. So pinball Olympics is a tournament based The style, let me rephrase that, is a style tournament for pinball. But what has happened is, is pinball, or Banger J has taken his collection and altered some of the games. So let's take Quicksilver, for example, he has a Stern Quicksilver. The playfield, he's put it in like a little wider cabinet, so the playfield actually shifts, it turns while you're playing. And you gotta get a high score on the game to, to medal in that event. So each, each game that has been altered is its own event. Uh, there was, what was it called? Barracora.
    63:02
    The Barracora luge was awesome. You had to lay on the floor while playing Barracora, looking through a mirror on the playfield and the flippers were at the base of the feet. Um, there was a beer goggle time fantasy. Cass stringview 29 ha ha scissor flippers i came more game that was on and when I say scissor flippers it's like someone to cut the handles off of scissors and then use the blades as flippers it's really goofy well it was also fun because you could actually use that and save the outlaint so that it's a seesaw it's a teeter totter so if you were really good at it you could actually save a lot of games I didn't get the full grasp of it until we'd move from his house and into the garage The Valley Company Subsidiary of Walter Kidde Co Inc Mirco Playfields Tim Kitzrow Scott Danesi Special bond with someone when you're in the same group playing that game together. It was certainly a creative way of setting up a game. They also had a TNA that was on a turntable, so you were spinning right round baby right round like a record baby right round round round. That's what was impressive too. He even got music that was all themed to that stuff too. So the game was on there, so you were rotating the whole time with the pinball machine, and And so the ball's going all these crazy directions because it's flying, it's rolling on a rotating playfield. So it's just, it's... Jay did a great job. It was a lot of fun. Anybody who goes to Expo, I highly recommend investing the time going up and doing the pinball Olympics, which was a lot of fun. The only downside is it took a lot of time out from Saturday, which I think was a big day, but I don't regret it. It was a lot of fun. It was great. I agree. By the end of it, though, I was wiped. I was exhausted. Yeah, I was tired. That four hours or whatever it was, it was ridiculous. Glenn Wechter, who shared a room with us, did the treadmill challenge, which was essentially playing no fear, while running as fast as you could on the treadmill. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Silt Bob Hanging from a Hard Hat Right in Front of Your Face. I won that challenge. That was on Junkyard. I took gold on that one. Nick Brown won a couple golds. Won in Kiss Hellstorm and then I can't remember what the other one was, but even Joel had taken home a couple of medals as well. Yeah, I did not. I should have retried a few games. I would just play the game once and I'm like, oh, that was interesting and kind of move on, but next time I will take it more seriously and bring home a medal. It was cheaper. I'm not trying to take anything away from the tournament at Expo. It was cheaper to do the Pinball Olympics that was the main tournament at Expo. I felt like I got more out of Pinball Olympics. Pinball Olympics was like an amusement park. That's really what it comes down to. It was a fun, it was an obstacle course slash pinball. It was well done. Everybody had a lot of fun. Your ticket included food. They had these amazing tacos there. The tacos were great, yeah. Jon Heaney션, Mark Heaney, John Getzoni, So if you're going to go to Expo, this is your first time, I'd highly recommend doing that. We wrapped up Pinball Olympics, hopped back in the car with Joel and Nick. They gave us the ride back to Expo. That was pretty much when Keith Elwin and company got on stage to their seminar on Godzilla. Amazing. There was a lot of cool behind the scenes, a lot of cool questions. And then they encouraged you to ask a question. If you did, you got essentially a prize. Yeah, and what'd you get? I'm going to say like a one of a kind, four and a half foot tall, three foot wide, all the CAD drawings of all of Keith and Company's games up to this point. And it was all signed by the teams. They're like all bad teams. And so it was insanely cool. And I opened it up after I got home and just stared at this thing for like half an hour. My wife even stared at it with me. She's like, that's really cool because it even shows like the placement of the circuit boards underneath the playfields, all the way to the very top of every wife's lawn. They are graded like a schematic drawing. It's really cool. I know one thing I did win from American Pinball is I actually won legends of aha backglass, which was glass. So he handed it to me and I was surprised because I thought it was going to be a trans light. So thanks to David Fix, he's sending that out to me. But that would be a great art piece. One other thing I did, I bought a shooter rod and it was kind of fun. So I was going through and there was a vendor who was super nice, had these really custom shooter rods. I actually want to check out his custom shooter rods. It is a super skill shot shooters based out of, I believe it was out of the South. But anyway, it was really cool. I threw that in my bag and I didn't even think about it. I went to the airport and I went through TSA and they scanned my bag and they pulled it off to the side to screen it. Pulled it out and of course the what's the first thing you say when someone pulls something out of your bag is oh That's a shooter rod in in the airport. So
    69:50
    So I had to explain a little bit what a shooter rod was and why it was used But thankfully they let me keep it So now I have my Deadpool shooter rod that I can that I can put on but that was that was really fun
    70:04
    It was an it was an amazing Expo we had a great time I got deep dish pizza John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. The Feud Without the Family of Dwight Sullivan. Oh, it's hilarious. That wasn't put on by Stern, but it was sponsored by Stern. And holy crap, they gave away so much stuff there. It was insane. Like I don't think people fully comprehended what was going on because how many people do you think was in that seminar? 30? Maybe 40? No, I think it was more. Maybe 40. But we were able to play it a few times, so I ended up doing- They gave away banners, they gave away shirts, glasses, those limited edition bandanas, frisbees, which apparently if you convince Dwight he'll give you a handful of them because they have a ton of them. I mean, they just had so much stuff and I'm surprised. Next year if you go to Expo, Feud Without the Family, it's usually the very last seminar of the very last day, hit it up because you will not regret it unless if you only have In the adsOURV breathe the Lesson was hosted on Facebook. Please see review under고 nations.com For more information, please visit patreon.comoustv.com So that's fun. That's actually in my, that's sitting in my, what's it called, the, we have some uranium glass, so we put Godzilla in the uranium glass, which makes sense, because he's radioactive.
    72:16
    Yeah, it's, it was great. So take home. What is your take home from Expo? What did you find was most interesting? What do you wish you would do differently next time? The And what was the one thing that you learned most? Okay, do you want to go first? You want me to go first? Go ahead. All right.
    72:39
    I think my biggest takeaway is make a game plan before you go. With this being my first Expo, I want to explore all and I definitely did, but by the end of it, I was super wiped out.
    72:55
    I don't regret doing all the stuff that I did, but I do feel like I missed out in some areas that I would have enjoyed more if I hadn't overextended myself by going in the main tournament and maybe valued my time a little bit better at Expo. Overall, it was fantastic. Don't be afraid to talk to people. The thing that I loved about Expo, I don't know about any other convention that they do that might happen at TPF, but since it's in Chicago, A lot of the people that work for these companies just show up. And so imagine Comic-Con, but you could just rub shoulders with any of the actors that might be there or any of the directors. It was pretty much that. It was like, oh, hey, here's Jack Danger. And we sat and talked with Jack. Or hey, there's Keith Elwin walking through all the Godzillas. So we pulled him aside and talked to him with him and his brother Randy, which was awesome to meet him. Mike Vinacore, just chillaxin'. You know, it was, how many times did I either- Jerry Thompson too, is super nice to us. Jerry Thompson, Steve Bowden, you know, Jack Guarneri, Eric Meunier, Ken Cromwell. The one that I was super awesome to meet was Jason Fowler. I don't know if you people remember Jason, but he was from Slap Save Pinball Podcast. That wasn't, didn't stop too long ago, so I hope you do remember him. It was awesome to get to meet him and we sat and talked 20-30 minutes in JJ Babich's suite. And it was just really, really cool. Like I said, I'd said it on the way home and I had said it totally wrong, so I do apologize to Joel and Nick because it probably came off the wrong way. But I was seriously nervous because I felt like there might be some attention that bubbles over from Pinside or Facebook because there's some really weird stuff that gets posted and And it's just like people want to fight. And so I was nervous to see what would happen, but honestly, none of that ever happened there. And it was just really cool to meet everyone. And so I really wish that I would have allotted my time a little bit better because by the time I went to bed on Saturday night, my flight was at... I had to be out of the hotel room at 2.50 in the morning so I could be to my flight and on the airplane before 5. And by 10 o'clock Saturday night, I felt like I hadn't done everything I wanted to do, but I was very happy with everything that did happen that I got to do. So what's your takeaway, Scott? My takeaway is approach any of these shows as if you are coming back. And so you don't feel like you have to, you know, just think of going to a buffet. There's so many options out there and you don't have to eat everything. Because if you try to eat everything, you're going to be overstuffed, you're going to be miserable. And so just pick the things that some experiences that you want to take away. And then next time you come back, pick some other ones. I like that we were able to, I was able to go to a lot of seminars, which I thought was really nice. I didn't play in the tournament because I didn't feel that I had enough time to really play up so I would have a good showing. And so I was okay with sacrificing that a little bit. Um, the, I wish the, the nice thing is some of the, some of the seminars that I did not go to, I can stream later. So I want to actually see the making of the Mandalorian and, you know, with Brian and Dwight and talk with them. I'm going to do a little bit of a talk with making a Led Zeppelin. Tim Sexton did that. There's a few other things that I'm just like, you know, I just, I can't make it to everything, but I didn't want to pigeonhole myself into one thing. One thing I would do a little differently in the, in the vendor hall, so I was a little wrong. The vendor hall opened on Thursday at 6 p.m., closed at 11 p.m. Friday opened at 4 p.m. and closed at 11 p.m. And Saturday it opened at 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. So that, there was a lot, but we chose to try the pinball Olympics on Saturday, so that took a lot of that away. Well, and I felt very fortunate too that we were able to get in on Thursday morning when everything was kind of still setting up. So it was almost like we had a personal tour of the vendor hall before everyone else was there. I would make a little more of an effort to go and talk to some of the vendors. And because it was so much fun to go and play all the new games, I wish that I had taken more time and talked to the people who came there with the mods, came there with their art that they were trying to sell. They have all these mechanics there. And so next time I go, I'm going to spend a little more time talking with them and thanking them for coming, because that is a big investment in their time.
    78:08
    And you can pick up some really cool things. That shooter rod I got was actually really cool for Deadpool, so I'm excited to put that on.
    78:16
    I came in Wednesday night. I may or may not do it again. I may come in Thursday the next time. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Ballywin, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, Like you're kind of wandering around alone, just go up and talk to someone because there's so many people to meet and it was great that we were able to meet so many different people from everywhere. Just two more that stood out to me. George Fisher. I felt like I've known the man for a while, but it was cool to actually go and talk to him as well. Don't Panic Flip. If you haven't checked out his Twitch channel, very awesome Twitch channel, go give it a watch. Yeah, so the one that shocked me was Todd McCullough, former NBA player. You can't miss him at Expo because he's taller than everyone else by at least a couple heads. And he came over to us at Pinball Olympics and we got talking and he said they just loved our show. And that was that was pretty cool. It was kind of a cool honor. I didn't realize that someone of his stature would listen to us. It surprises that stash are tall. I got it. Um, yeah, it's, uh, the nice thing about it is because you're able to connect to a lot of people and whether or not they listen is, uh, is, is nice, but either way you have that common bond. Like you could really talk to almost anyone on there. And it was a, we played dollar games. It was a diverse group. Uh, there were a lot of people from a lot of different walks of life and we had a lot of fun playing stall ball. So that's another thing. I would bring like $21 bills. So when you play these dollar games, you actually have dollars that you don't have to figure out, oh, I need to get change. So that was different too. And I think it reinforced what I've said for years now that I love about pinball. It doesn't matter race, religion, you know, what shoe size you wear. If you love pinball, it brings all walks of life together. And it's nice to have something in our lives, especially with such a weird, diverse, controversial time we live in, to have something that brings us all together and drops all the barriers Welcome to Parsing With The Bass brought to you by DAW, division of DAW at the Lakewood Lake只是 College, INDISC CE, LAWRENCE, LEAH. Last use of the worked writing technology and the mass 81,000. I came to play around with subclass 80, anyways, big deal. And it all starts with the answer, rein endlich. We areormonthday hijabbrendnigtjfugام, Harvey Cortyaan ee, and верхimaierpkeyantkutta, Darkie Bernie, Ke yeval lei- I met Darren Walker there. I saw Scott Danesi and he gave me some cassette tapes, so that was a lot of fun. I'm trying to just think of all the different people that I saw. It's hard because it's like if we missed you, like seriously, each one of you that we saw and met, it stands out as part of a highlight of my trip. Yeah, we had so much fun, so it was great. It was really awesome. I was not expecting as many people to come up and say, I kept introducing myself as like, hi, I'm Josh, I'm with the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. And usually the response says, Josh, I know who you are. Like I can tell from your voice. I'm like, oh, oh, okay. Like I wasn't expecting that. Like, I don't know. I just assumed- They didn't tell me that as much, but you're the one that has the voice for radio, so. Right, right. But it was just really cool. And like I said, this is our first experience with this. I'm hoping for TPF. We'll see what happens. Um, we did talk to, speaking of CPF, we did talk to Jeff Patterson and he did tell us that he's still aiming to do twippies. He doesn't feel like that's going to go away. And, and, uh, I know Scott just got all, got all excited for that cause he's, he's ready to take down the reigning champ. So, uh, yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll see about that. Um, yeah, no, it was, it was just a lot of fun. So it was a great seeing everybody. If you have any thoughts on what you did at Expo or what you wish you had seen at Expo, reach out to us. Let us know. It'd be interesting to see what people liked, what they didn't. And it seemed like a very positive show experience. It felt like a lot of people had a great time. Well, I think that pretty much does it for us, Scott. We've ran a little longer than usual, but there was a lot to cover. So, um, but I think overall I'm very pleased with how everything went. So yeah, no, it was awesome. We had a good time. Well, if you want to get ahold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. If you'd like to get ahold of us on the socials, we are at Loser Kid Pinball on Facebook, Twitch and Twitter and Instagram. So yeah, if you'd like to get ahold of us, that's the way to do it. I don't know if Scott has any merch left. I have very, very little. And we're having a heck of a time getting this stuff into stock. I'm keeping an eye out and trying to get more in stock. But for the time being right now, if you didn't get a hat or a shirt at Expo, it's going to be a minute. I actually do have a few more shirts, pretty much out of baseball hats. But we're looking to get more. I have a few of the beanies, the striped beanies, which I think are a lot of fun to wear. But it's definitely a bold choice for a beanie if you want that. Other than that, I guess we'll talk to each other here in a couple weeks. Yeah, and we're planning on getting Scott from Legends of Valhalla on, and we were able to line up a lot of guests coming on, so we're really looking forward to the next six months as we're trying to run through them all. Definitely. And we'll go from there. All right. Talk to you later. See ya. Shut up and sit down.
    85:03
    Welcome to Whoa What?