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Pinball Innovators & Makers Podcast Ep 4: 3 Minutes Of Real Info, 27 Minutes Of BS

The Pinball Network·video·50m 48s·analyzed·Apr 23, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.027

TL;DR

Custom pinball builder Mike Pegg discusses homebrew philosophy, design inspiration, and technical challenges.

Summary

Dan Rosenstein hosts Mike Pegg from rural Alabama on the Pinball Innovators & Makers Podcast. Mike shares his journey building a custom pinball machine from scratch, drawing on his background in carpentry, electrical work, and custom car building. The episode covers Mike's philosophy on homebrewing vs. rethemes, his design choices (70s Dodge color palette), and current technical challenges, with discussion of the homebrew community and collaborative builder culture.

Key Claims

  • Mike dropped his first playfield in late October and had to rebuild with a new one

    high confidence · Dan confirms the timeline: 'Yeah, I was. That was back in late October, right?' Mike responds affirmatively.

  • Mike's playfield color scheme (grabber green and Plum Crazy purple) are based on 1970s Dodge muscle car colors

    high confidence · Mike states: 'The green is grabber green from the early Hemi cars. The Kudas, yeah. It's actually called Plum Crazy, which is also from the Dusters, from the old Dodges.'

  • Mike distinguishes homebrewing (building from ground up) from rethemes (renovating existing machines)

    high confidence · Mike explains: 'I think in the homebrew community... that I think it's like building a house or buying a house and renovating it... If you renovated it, it's a rethink. If you build it from the ground up, it's a homebrew.'

  • Mike currently has intermittent flipper problems including phantom flips on the left side

    high confidence · Mike states: 'Right now I'm having some intermittent flipper problems. I'm having some phantom flip problems on my left side.'

  • Mike's machine will include interactive plasma/lightning bulbs and an MP3 jukebox function

    high confidence · Mike explains: 'I have some of those lightning bulbs that you put where you touch and the electricity crackles and follows your hand... I did an mp3 player with a jukebox in mine also.'

  • Ernie Silverberg has been one of Mike's top five most supportive contacts in the custom pinball community

    high confidence · Mike states: 'And he has been one of the top five guys for being supportive to me' and describes Ernie's consistent positive feedback via text.

  • Mike's first power-on test and play video was published March 25th (a couple days before this recording)

    high confidence · Dan states: 'fast forward to March 25th, a couple days ago, when you published the video of your first power on test and play'

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm a guy who i was taught you can't be beat by anything that's material if it can't think for itself it can't beat you”

    Mike Pegg @ early in interview — Reveals Mike's philosophy and approach to problem-solving that drives his 'drill first, ask questions later' methodology

  • “The word custom in itself means I can do whatever the crap I want to do.”

    Mike Pegg @ mid-interview — Articulates Mike's perspective on what 'custom' means vs. regulation standards, rejects conformity

  • “I already had a vision. I didn't lay out shots. I didn't lay out where the ball's going to roll. I just started putting crap on there and I just went crazy.”

    Mike Pegg @ mid-interview — Explains what led to first playfield failure; demonstrates his artistic vs. engineering-first approach

  • “You see a paint job, don't look at it for what you see today, but what the designer or the custom builder or the maker like Mike are looking for when they're done with this project.”

    Dan Rosenstein @ mid-interview — Meta-commentary on evaluating custom work; highlights importance of understanding builder's vision

  • “I want it to be loud and I want to stand out I want people to notice it when they walk in the room over every other pinball machine there”

    Mike Pegg @ late in interview — Explains the core design philosophy behind the bold color choices

  • “there is a whole world of innovation out there that can be used in pinball that these guys miss”

    Mike Pegg @ late in interview — Critiques pinball community's narrow sourcing approach; advocates for cross-industry knowledge transfer

  • “when I dropped the play field and I decided it can be better because Nick has just trumped my machine with his back glass”

    Mike Pegg @ mid-interview — Shows how collaborative feedback and community inspiration drove Mike to improve after setback

Entities

Dan RosensteinpersonMike PeggpersonErnie SilverbergpersonJake DanzigpersonNick McDanielpersonKylepersonRyanpersonTanner/PetchpersonBig Deal Customs

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball Innovators & Makers Podcast launched as dedicated platform for homebrew, custom, and rethemed pinball builders, positioning custom/maker space as distinct community focus area

    high · Dan Rosenstein introduces new podcast series: 'Launching Pinball Innovators and Makers Podcast... focused on the innovators and makers who are crafting homebrew, custom, and rethemed pinball machines'

  • ?

    event_signal: Texas Pinball Festival serving as active venue for custom pinball community gathering and discussion during time of podcast recording

    high · Dan notes: 'we're recording this one Texas pinball festival is going on. I'm sure the folks that are there are having a great time talking customs.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Positive sentiment toward Ernie Silverberg as mentor/community leader; his supportive approach and willingness to share progress publicly resonates strongly with emerging builders

    high · Mike: 'And he has been one of the top five guys for being supportive to me... Every time I get a little heart emoji... he listens to all my dumb questions.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Custom builder approach: artistic vision-first design (color/aesthetics) followed by functional layout, contrasting with traditional engineering-first playfield design

    high · Mike: 'I already had a vision. I didn't lay out shots... I just started putting crap on there' and 'when I dropped the play field... I decided to... try to see where those are going to go first and then build the play field around the cool paint.'

  • $

    market_signal: Distinction between 'homebrew from scratch' vs. 'retheme of existing machine' gaining conceptual traction in custom community; builders debating definitions and value of each approach

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.152

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching Pinball Innovators and Makers Podcast. Hi, and welcome to the Pinball Podcast focused on the innovators and makers who are crafting homebrew, custom, and rethemed pinball machines, the technology that makes these personal projects possible, and the companies helping with these journeys. Custom pinballs are a deeply personal and technically challenging undertaking, requiring time, money, knowledge, and most importantly, the desire to make it happen. I'm Dan Rosenstein, your host. Join me and let's go under the playfield and see what's needed to make a custom pinball possible. So today on the podcast, I've got Mike Pegg from Alabama. Mike, why don't you introduce yourself? I'm Mike Pegg. I live in a little bitty rural area of Alabama called Mumford on a little river out in the middle of nowhere. I'm barely able to stream with Dan. We have to pipe sunshine in here where I'm at. And we recently got shoes and we're learning to tie them ourselves.
1:16
Mike, how long have you lived in Alabama? I moved here in 85. I'm a military family. My dad was Army, retired here. My mom was Navy. Awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you very much for their service. Were you in the service as well by any chance?
1:29
No, actually, I did not because I lived in it my whole life growing up. But my son did go. He's been in 21 years and my middle daughter was in for three. Awesome. Well, thank you for all their service. Thank you for your service adjacent. So real quick, let's start with let's let's hear a little bit about yourself. We know you're from Alabama. You come from a military family. What are some of your interests, hobbies? And then from there, why don't you go into your pinball backstory?
company
Trident Pinballcompany
Strictly Custom Pinballorganization
Pinball Innovators & Makers Podcastorganization
Pinsideorganization
Dirty South Goodiescompany
Texas Pinball Festivalevent
SECAorganization

medium · Mike articulates: 'I think the homebrew community... like building a house or buying a house and renovating it... If you renovated it, it's a rethink. If you build it from the ground up, it's a homebrew.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Custom builders exploring beyond-standard pinball modifications: interactive plasma bulbs, integrated jukebox functionality, custom laser-etched legs, commercial-grade LED neon strips

    high · Mike's machine features: 'lightning bulbs that you touch and the electricity crackles... mp3 player with a jukebox... looking into maybe doing custom laser engraved legs'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Industrial/commercial electrical technology (LED strips, transformer sourcing) being applied to pinball as alternative to traditional pinball-specific parts sourcing

    high · Mike states: 'there is a whole world of innovation out there that can be used in pinball that these guys miss... in my world, we use those every day in PLC cabinets... transformers are still out there. Just call a flat and you'll get what you need.'

    • 1:56
    Honestly, I am a jack of all trades, master of none. I grew up in a farm in Ohio. We did everything ourselves. Oh, I'm from Ohio as well. No kidding. Actually, a little town called Shurdsville, but it's out near Atwood Lake, northeast Ohio. Yeah, I'm from northeast of Ohio as well. That's funny. Wow, fantastic. But we grew up doing everything ourselves, so had to learn carpentry, electrical, plumbing, all that. So when we moved down here, I built my own barn dominium. I have a metal building that I built a house inside of. Wait, wait, hold on a sec. Did you say barn dominium? Yeah, so what you do is you take a metal warehouse, and then you build an apartment inside of it, and then you have a shop and an apartment inside of like a metal warehouse.
    2:49
    It's really awesome. I mean, 25 years ago when I did it, I was crazy. Now everybody's doing it. Well, that's the proof that you're onto something right. You know, 25 years ago I was wearing flannels and corduroys, and they're finally popular again. So there you go. All right, keep going with your story. So anyway, I'm kind of into everything. I build custom guitars. I have a shop called Big Deal Customs. I've built hot rods for years until the housing bubble popped back several years ago and I've been into a little bit of everything I've built all the furniture in my home I've built my home myself so I can do a little bit of everything I'm an electrician by trade I have an electronics degree in old school electronics when DOS was the primary programming function in the world for some of us we still use DOS, Mike. Yeah, so, and I'm a ladder logic guy, you know, if-then kind of stuff, so that's my background. Well, that's pretty cool, because ladder logic is, I mean, game rules are, you know, at least some relatively straightforward game rules are a lot of ladder logic, and you mentioned carpentry, which clearly has come through in the build that you're working on, and also you mentioned electronics and electrical. I don't know if you've used any plumbing in the project, but we'll talk about that a little bit as we go through the build. That's actually for the next one.
    4:18
    Maybe it'll be a water-themed game. Fathom 3, maybe. So, like, tell the listener a little bit about, like, what makes you tick and kind of how you approach the hobby, you know, how you approach custom building, how you describe yourself. I am an OCD ADHD type person. I listened to Ernie's podcast last week and Ernie and I are very similar. He's actually one of the first to ever reach out to me. um in august i had bought a few machines uh three hundred dollar garbage machines none of them works none of them still work uh except for uh old game playing coney island that i've managed to make sparingly work oh that's awesome yeah uh and actually that's one of my favorite games of all time um but um mike did you did you play that as a as a kid um or it like you like once you got it became a one of your favorites uh no actually uh i never got to play any game plans as a kid the first pinball machine that i ever put my hands on was a night rider uh an em machine it was a little gas station that was everything in town it was the mortuary the funeral home the gas station uh the little general store and that's not a joke mr baxter was like the kingpin of sherdsville ohio I was about to make the joke, was the owner also the mayor? And then there you go. You just said it. Kind of, yes. So, yeah. But Mr. Baxter was a really good guy. But he had a Knight Rider. And then I remember a Harlem Globetrotters came in. And I was hooked from that moment on. And I have sought machines out most of my life. You know, I went through the video game phase when Pong and Space Invaders hit and all that stuff. But eventually, as the PlayStation's all, which I'm into those two, I have gravitated back towards the pinball because of the feedback, the feel, the putting your hands on something, you know, the sounds, the whistles, the bells, the lights, you know, it's hypnotizing. That's so cool that you remember that Knight Rider so fondly. So you mentioned the episode with Ernie, and I appreciate you mentioning that because when you and I were kind of like first chatting to do the podcast, you listened. It was right when I had dropped episode two, the first interview with Ryan and Kyle, excuse me. And you told me that that episode was a seven out of 10. And so I wanted to know from you how would you and you said you were a tough, a tough grader and a tough critic, which is completely fair. I want to know what you thought of the episode of episode three and how you would have rated that. uh with Ernie that was more on my level so I would say eight or nine and because the first guy was interesting don't get me wrong but it was out of my league Ernie is a guy like myself Ernie has a lot more uh program savvy than I do but Ernie falters on the carpentry and build side. So watching Ernie go through these struggles and I get, Ernie's been really cool about being privy with me on getting to see stuff. And he'll send me pictures ahead of time before he puts them online and say, Hey man, what do you think about this? And what do you think about that? And I don't know why the guy is so amazingly nice, but I gravitated towards Ernie quickly. And he listens to all my dumb questions. He will take time out of his day when I text him and say, Hey, Ernie, I'm stumped. Or Hey, what is how does this look to you? And every time I get a little heart emoji, and it's always followed by that's amazing, or you're killing it. Or that's awesome. And he has been one of the top five guys for being supportive to me. And, you know, when I stepped into this dan uh i had not any contact with strictly custom pinball or pin side i didn't know about any of this stuff before august and i bought this uh space invaders with the idea of re-theming it for big deal customs for my shop and when i got it home the legs fell off it broke and hit the ground it was full of mold the wood was rotted out so it was it was a it's actually had a burn pile in my yard right now sadly but and then i just started building a cabinet with no dimensions um i just kind of winged it and got similar to what was already there so i jumped into something like ernie where he said feet first instead of head first because that's my character i'm i'm a guy who i was taught you can't be beat by anything that's material if it can't think for itself it can't beat you so i took that um you know head on and i went and started building this cabinet started posting pictures and then uh jake danzig reached out to me and i don't know how he even saw it but uh he said hey i got this thing going on called uh simply custom pinball so i jumped on there and you know started meeting some of these people said hey there's this place called pinside and uh that's been extremely helpful and hurtful in the same way there's probably as equally as many trolls as there are people on who want to uh you know push you forward so we you know you mentioned just real quick you mentioned jake and um and and kyle and ernie and yourself like it's great meeting nice good helpful people and i absolutely agree with you pinside can be extremely toxic. But that said, there are those nuggets. And what I found is the custom group on Pinside, as well as Strictly Customs, which Shake runs, as you said, and Ernie's community on Discord are all great places to get help, find people who are just good human beings, helpful, kind, just want to see the best in each other. And I'm really glad. One of the things that I've been enjoying about doing this podcast is meeting new people who share that, that positive aspect of pinball. And, and, and, and I think, I think that's awesome. I think part of it, you know, is that those that create or interested in the creating and the making have to keep a positive attitude. Otherwise they don't get through the project. And so, and we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll talk about that, that, that some more. So, so that said, you know, my goal for this episode is to get, I had originally listed better than a 7.5 from you, but since you said already this episode was an eight, I'm going for an 8.5 today with you. So let's give the listener a killer show. And one thing that you told me is that you were going to give me three minutes of real info and 27 minutes of BS. So I'm holding you to that for this one. That's good because I've already burned up all the information that I had for you, Dan. I think there's a couple more. I think I used up my stuff too quickly. I should have sparsely put it out there instead of using it all in one two-minute span. Well, let's see if I can earn my keep then because they pay me so much that maybe my questions will lead us to a couple more minutes of good content. Then we can splice together a three-minute summary. It's a huge responsibility being a big star, Dan. So let's start with what does homebrewing custom mean to you? You and I had some dialogue back and forth as the Twippies were being announced. And you had some good thoughts there. And I don't necessarily have to agree with your perspective. The listener doesn't have to agree with your perspective. But I think you've got a voice and thoughts. So let's hear about it. Let's hear what your thoughts are about homebrewing custom. them? Well, my biggest beef, I think, with the whole homebrew community is the separation of what we doing as opposed to what our abilities are Like I said I can build wood I can do a lot of electronics but I really out of my realm of my knowledge I been winging this for the last couple months After the cabinet part was over and I started on the play field, I went into absolute backwards compatibility.
    12:56
    So I think in the homebrew community, I had explained to you the other day that I think it's like building a house or buying a house and renovating it. did you build your house from the ground up or did you buy a house and you renovated it? If you renovated it, it's a rethink. If you build it from the ground up, it's a homebrew. You know, did I build it at home or did I buy something and put a different facade on it? So and I think a lot of people take me wrong in that aspect because I have no doubt that the work involved in a homebrew or retheme aren't equally as impossible to get done as the other. There is no differential to me. I mean, you take an entire machine, take it all apart, you know, you're already in trouble. You know, the first time, the first wire you pull loose, you're creating problems in pinball. It was like, and then, oh, did I take pictures? Oh, my God. Where did that go?
    14:02
    Oh, it's on the drawings. And Mike, let's be clear. Even if you took pictures, the picture wasn't at the right angle for the thing that you're going to need later on. But the lighting wasn't right or it was blocked by something. And the schematic doesn't have the exact information you need when you're rebuilding. You are so correct, because I am I am in the home stretch on my homebrew now. I turned it on. The magic smoke did not come out, by the way, which is a huge accomplishment. So just the fact that the flippers will kind of flip and stuff like that is great. But my problem is, is my schematics are wrong.
    14:39
    And I've got intermittent little things going on and I've changed a lot of things. I've swapped over, you know, parts and stuff like that. So what I thought was going to be a homebrew and a simple, hey, I'm just going to retheme this thing has turned into an absolute fiasco. And, you know, like a bank heist, it's gone bad. so i'm in the bank right now with bags of money in my hand and i have no escape plan well that's part of doing this podcast let's see let's see if we can get you an escape route maybe ernie myself and others can be your proverbial guy in the chair who's who's gonna help you get about six guys to just roll in down here at my house and uh go through this thing with me that'd be even better so so mike it's actually funny you say that um you know a A professional pinball company, and in fact, anybody who professionally makes something, is usually not just a one-person show. They usually have a few people doing software development, a person doing game rules, another one doing game design, another group of people who actually build the cabinets, and another art department, control systems engineers, mechanical engineers. And so all of us who go down this route of a re-theme or a custom or a homebrew, whether it's a renovation project, a restoration project or a full, complete build, all of us take on roles, some of which are in our wheelhouse and some of which are not. As an example, you know, I am not a carpenter. Like, can I use power tools? Absolutely. But I do not have the gift of the craft of working with wood. Like I can construct a box and that's, you know, that that's my limit. I happen to be a control systems engineer. And so once I get under the play field, I'm I'm very comfortable.
    16:27
    And so I would absolutely love, you know, a week or a weekend of getting together in your in your what would you call it? your condo barn dominium with like, you know, folks that are good at art and folks, you know, you, you, you, with woodworking cabinetry and like, just go to town and build a pinball machine from scratch. I think that would be like the world's coolest thing. You know, unfortunately the real world gets in our way and we've got lives and jobs and kids and et cetera. And so I think the next best thing is doing these types of interviews, talking to people when we're, you know, we have the ability to go to shows as you know, we're recording this one Texas pinball festival is going on. I'm sure the folks that are there are having a great time talking customs. And so let's do the same here. So what are some customs that have given you inspiration?
    17:20
    First, well, right off the bat, Ernie's League of Legends is absolutely mind-blowing to me. watching that I have watched that evolve from a partial play field to the second play field to his third play field to his upper play fields and watching Ernie go through the shots and be willing to take stuff apart that he has worked hard on and then discard it for something newer and different and taking those risks is just mind-blowing um Elf I think is fantastic um is it Tanner or Petch. Is that how you say his name? I honestly don't know. Let's go with that and hopefully he'll forgive us if we said it wrong. Yeah, well, and he's the one that did Trashland and he's got some, that guy is out of the box. The out of the box builders. Now, don't get me wrong. I love Ernie stuff. I love that. But in my opinion, I get all the time on custom pages like, you know, hey, which regulation cabinet do you use? I'm the wrong guy to ask about regulation. I don't give two cat farts about regulation sizes. The word custom in itself means I can do whatever the crap I want to do. So when I start on a project, I'm not looking at what other people have done because the idea of custom is what's in my brain. And I have that vision where I see things finished before I start them. I don't know if you've noticed I'm a painter. Yeah, I did all custom paint on my stuff. I've painted tons of custom guitars and things like that. So and I dabble in a little bit of everything. But, you know, so when I set out something like that's what got me in trouble on this one, Dan. I already had a vision. I didn't lay out shots. I didn't lay out where the ball's going to roll. I just started putting crap on there and I just went crazy. And I'm just like, you know, putting lights in there. Oh, this is going to look cool here. And then I don't know if you know that I dropped my first play field and busted it. Yeah, I was. That was back in late October, right? Yeah. So my girlfriend said that she thought somebody died here because I literally moped around his house for days. And she really got on my butt about that because I'm not a quitter. And that one, it broke my heart, Dan. I'm not going to lie. That hurt me. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, sir. When I started back and I got the new play field, I thought, you know what? The ramp shot wasn't going to work. The orbit wasn't going to work. Maybe this time I should try to see where those are going to go first and then build the play field around the cool paint and all that stuff afterwards. You know, so you said you said a number of things that I had taken down in my notes as I was doing prep. And like, let's let's just go right right into them. So the the first thing is, I think your your story is really drill first. It's not even head first. So that's that. That's how we're going to summarize it. It's you know, it's actually a fantastic learning that, you know, it's really unfortunate that you dropped the play field. I completely understand it being like someone in the family had died and you taking it that personally. But I really love the fact that you took out of it a learning experience for, you know, and really good wisdom to share with the community at this point around lay out those shots. Try those shots out, even if you are going drill first. You know, as I say, you talk about the painting and I actually wanted to key in on that. I'm going to be like, I'm completely honest with you. When I saw your cabinet and play field for the first time, I think it was on strictly, it might've been on pinball enthusiasts or strictly customs. I don't remember which one I was like, Oh my God, that color combination is horrific. I was like, that is the ugliest green I've seen. That is the ugliest purple I've seen. Like there's these weird lines. Like I'm, I'm being completely transparent. I am offering my hundred percent. I'm not supposed to tell me that, Dan, and I'm not offended. I'm offering you like my honest bias on it. And here's the thing, okay? As I watched your build unfold, and as we started talking over the months, I think we first connected back in January, I realized three things. The first one is, my God, I was wrong. Number two, this guy has a level of craftsmanship in build and paint that is above a professional level. Like you can take a car or a pinball machine to a professional and they wouldn't get the type of work that you apply to your machine. OK, it became evident as it unfolded. And the third one, you're welcome. And the third one is something that you said very quickly, which I want to go back to, which is it became clear you had a vision in your head. Because fast forward to March 25th, a couple days ago, when you published the video of your first power on test and play, and you see the whole play field, all the color combo, the purpose of the game being for your custom guitar shop, it became a cohesive unit. OK, and you don't get that cohesive unit without a plan from the beginning. And those colors popped what you were trying to do. And I, you know, I realized a long time ago, it was a number of months now that I realized my initial impression was wrong. But to the community, what I want to say on that is you see a paint job, don't look at it for what you see today, but what the designer or the custom builder or the maker like Mike are looking for when they're done with this project. Because Mike, it is a gorgeous work of art. So let's backtrack and tell the listener more about how you chose the green and purple, how it fits the theme, why those deliberate choices were taken. Okay, so as I mentioned earlier, I was in the car building thing for years and doing the hot rods. And the colors are actually Dodge 70s colors. So the green is grabber green from the early Hemi cars. The Kudas, yeah. It's actually called Plum Crazy, which is also from the Dusters, from the old Dodges. And several of the colors, the pink fades and all that thing that I put in there were variations of cars that I have seen or done or worked on throughout the years.
    24:16
    And I'm back in the, I want to say the mid to late 90s. We got into the Nopi thing a little bit. which was the little Fast and the Furious cars and build a few of those. And watching the color combinations that people would come to us and we built several of those.
    24:33
    Sorry, were you rebuilding customs like for a living or was it a hobby at this point? Actually, it was a side gig. I've always been an electrician, but I've sold several cars. I've had a truck in a magazine before, won several car shows with some custom Corvettes I had built and things like that. But just taking those aspects of things that I've seen that don't normally work together and then putting them together in a correct manner or how you overlay colors with other colors makes them seem to be more vivid, more pleasing to the eye than the average person would think. and my thoughts on this pinball was I want it to be loud and I want to stand out I want people to notice it when they walk in the room over every other pinball machine there And that was really what I was going for was being you know audastic, stand out, loud, you know, rude. You know, people say, holy crap, what the, you know, and that like it or not, that's the first one they're going to go to in the room, Dan. You're absolutely right. Like, look, you were talking about the specific names of the colors. And, you know, I happen to be a car guy as well. We can shoot the shit about that later on.
    25:56
    And the you know, when you said the green on the Dodge and I saw the Kudas, I was like, oh, my God, that's absolutely right. That's exactly what I was going to call. And to to that point, you saw it in your mind immediately. And it didn't it didn't click until you just said it. But then you you know, when you go to a car show and you see a 70s Hemi Cuda, that's the green one. You go to that car first. You go to it because it looks completely different. You're absolutely right on this. Yeah. And that was my thought was I wanted something to grab people. I wanted something that grabbed my attention and something that I don't look at and get bored with all the time. My my guy that helped me with my back glass, Nick McDaniel, he's in it's called Dirty South Goodies. he races dirt bikes with me we race cross-country dirt bikes in a group called seca southeast cross-country association and nick kind of reached out to me a little bit and i was having some issues and i i reached out for help on facebook hey i need some graphics help and i explained to nick i said look i want that cartoonish 70s 80s retro pinball look on my back glass. Nick did one take on it, sent me a picture and nailed it at the first go round. I was like, yeah, that's it, man. You got it, you know. And then everything kind of started evolving back. And when I dropped the play field and I decided it can be better because Nick has just trumped my machine with his back glass. So and that helped push me a little further, making the next look more realistic uh you know the color's a little more vivid and especially one of the little side rails called that support you know yeah you know paint them a little more vivid this time so that they match up and flow with them because i see guys build these great machines and then they just have wood side rails or black side rails you know nothing wrong with that but i wanted everything to flow you know all the metal all the wood the you know i i made my legs custom You know, I laser cut big deal into my legs. You know, they have crowns on them. I was going to say you got the crown. I was just about to say you read my mind. Yeah. So, you know, and I thought, you know, because there is only one leg in pinball. Every machine on the planet has the same legs. How is that custom? You know, so and that's something I'm looking into later, kind of like Ernie did with Trident. I'm talking to some guys now with some machine shops and looking into maybe doing custom laser engraved legs in the future. That's awesome. That's super, super cool. And it's great that, you know, one of the things I love about being a control system engineer is that and a robotics engineer is that it brings multiple different disciplines together. You know, in working with pinball, which is a giant control system, you've got electronics, you've got electrical systems, you've got software, you've got mechanical systems, you've got the cabinet, you're bringing a lot of expertise together. And the fact that you're bridging your custom car world and your bike world and your network together to make your machine better and the community better for it, now that you're thinking about doing legs, doing custom laser etching, I think it's absolutely awesome. And you should absolutely pursue that. And I can't wait to see how you go from a maker today to an innovator tomorrow that helps others, you know, with with with product, with technology, with with with methodology. It's like you should be teaching a master class on painting and color choice and and cabinet construction and just like overall like mechanism layout, et cetera. And so with that, I want to talk about some of the things on your pinball machine, where you're at today. One of the most striking things besides the color is the, and I've seen many people commented on it, is one of your ramps has LED strips running across it. Talk to me about how you got to that, where that came from, what was the inspiration?
    30:11
    Well, being an electrician, I'm a commercial industrial guy. I'm not a residential guy, but we do a lot of oddball things in some places. But I've been, you know, in the pinball community, an LHD strip is this one that comes on a little roll and it's $20 off Amazon. You know, in my world, we have way better technology than that. And that's, you know, and I hate to even touch on that. But actually, I think it's good for the pinball community to understand that pinball parts are not the end all be all. You know, there is a whole world of innovation out there that can be used in pinball that these guys miss. You know, transformer guys are the worst. Hey, it's got to be a Williams transformer for Williams, you know, or you. Hey, we can't find transformers anymore with these multi taps. Well, I don't know if they're aware in my world. We use those every day in PLC cabinets and things like that. So we just order from electrical supply house, you know. So, yeah, they're still out there. Just just just call. Just call a flat and you'll you'll get what you need. Yeah. Yeah, so the LED light thing, you know, we've done those in, you know, like little hotels and things like that. And they have these neon strips and you can't see the lights in them like you can through the cheaper ones where you can still pick out the hot spots. Mine does not have the hot spot issue. It looks like a continuous neon. And that's what I was going for. I really want the tube version, but they are extremely expensive to get a actual LED neon tube. they're like 80 bucks a foot so you know cost is a prohibitive thing for me in my business you know i have house payments car payments you know i work constantly so you know for right now i did what i can and i found the next best alternative uh for the time being that that's awesome so um we'll post uh your pin side link if that's okay with you for the show notes um and you know that That way people can both contact you and see the progress of the bill.
    32:12
    So what's next for your machine? I know you're currently debugging through some issues. What are some improvements you want to make, and what do you want to do next with it? Or what's your next machine? Well, right now I'm having some intermittent flipper problems. I'm having some phantom flip problems on my left side. I've got the dual flippers with the open and close, normally open and close switches. I have a few more surprises install in store for the cabinet now I have some of those lightning bulbs that you put where you touch and the electricity crackles and follows your hand that would be going in that's awesome and as you know I did an mp3 player with a jukebox in mine also so when it's not being a pinball machine you can actually pipe your music through it and play as a jukebox. I have several auxiliary inputs so I can do sound, you know, radio, your phone, whatever, you know, Spotify or whatever you like through the pinball machine. So, Mike, you bring up sound. You know, this machine is a tribute to you and your custom guitar work and your custom automotive work. Have you considered like getting guitar like solos and riffs that you made into the machine and do you know how to go about it you already have 12 samples recorded i have the spark fun wave sound board in there now i'm having problems programming it because i'm an idiot now i have a little recording studio of my own and uh so i've already downloaded some stuff i've got some great intro music ready for it uh guitar solo actually I robbed that little thing from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure where they say excellent and go with the guitars. You know, that pops, you know, one of the sounds on the ramp. And then when you pop the special, it says because I feel heavy metal by Blur song number two, things like that. I mean, I've got some great you know, I've got the intro when you pull the the plunger back. It says, are you ready by Korn? Oh, that's awesome. And goes into a cult of personality by living color and things like that. You know, sound has been a little tricky because I'm having to do switches on switches. I've been following some guys that have done that also.
    34:40
    But, you know, overall. I think we're not having a clue what in the crap I'm doing, Dan. I'm actually a lot further ahead right now than I really thought I was going to be in August. and and and the thing that's you know it's been it's been a relatively short amount of time um and the thing that you know i i enjoy seeing and i you know i i really appreciate is that you're enjoying it you're having a great time with it it is it is clear from when you talk about it from when you i am about it from when you post on on pinsider strictly customs you know and then seeing your friends and your your community outside of pinball how they're embracing it because it's it's an extension of you. It's awesome. So, Mike, we have a couple minutes left. And before we adjourn, is there anything that you want to tell the listener, like advice that you have or things that you wish you would have known before you started this or anything like that?
    35:43
    Honestly, Dan, I think the biggest message I really want to get out of this podcast, specifically because this is a homebrew podcast is that i want to see these guys who are scared to death of this get involved um i reached out to all tech as you as i told you uh dave seedman i believe is his name has been super helpful you know all these guys in the programming that know this stuff are not at all concerned by the programming side. I have no clue about that. The Arduinos, all these little things that these guys are doing, they scare me to death.
    36:29
    But what I do know is there are a ton of machines out there, Bally's, Williams 95s, and all these other systems, System 11s, that have all these great features on these boards. guys could take an all tech board for example because that's what i'm using
    36:48
    i took parts of space invaders and parts of other valley games and moved the things around where i wanted them to there are so many switches and bumpers and flippers and things you don't need to learn for your first time or two to reprogram you can repurpose these manufactured boards You can wire them. You can get a download of the system drawings and schematics, and you can wire two flippers straight from an all-tech solenoid board and make them work right off the bat with a power supply. so my message my biggest thing is to the guys who want to do this and are afraid of the programming that should not hold you out back in this day and time there are options out there there are opportunities there's guys like me taking risks because i honestly dan i have no clue what the heck i'm doing but i know how to read a schematic i know that 48 volts flips a coil and you can turn it on and off The biggest message I really want to get out there is it legitimate for everybody to get involved Whether you scared of the cabinet or you scared of the programming or you scared of the play field a sheet of plywood is 50 bucks you can get four play fields out of a sheet of plywood go out get buy one cut a bunch of holes in it drill first you know make it first put cardboard on it take pencils and draw on it with crayons i don't it doesn't matter um you know You know, as I said earlier, I've never done this, but I know that I can do it just because I'm willing to try. And I think that's where a lot of guys get fearful.
    38:36
    Well, and the other part is it's it's hella expensive. You know, I'm so deep in this now that if I was to quit, my girlfriend would probably disown me and I would probably be shoved out of the house. You know, she's like, you know, it's like, how far are you into this? I was like, oh, 30, 40 bucks. She just looks at me like, yeah, that's a lie. You know, when I dropped that play field and broke it, Dan, I figured it up. There was 300 bucks in paint on that. Wow. A hundred dollars in inserts.
    39:10
    I don't even want to begin on time. You know, 40 bucks worth of plywood, whatever. You know, so I probably lost $700, $1,000 in dropping that play field. you know and uh the and the money to me right now is probably the biggest factor
    39:27
    i have a lot of visions but a lot of uh monetary um blockades so i just do what i can with what i have you know i make i make tons of stuff and like ernie talked about getting ramps i ordered one of them 30 boxes from ramp-o-matic and you know cut up some pieces and i'm just like him you know i I just do the best I can with what I got.
    39:50
    That's amazing. So you're absolutely right on the finances side. Time-wise, you know, there's time, there's money, there's also like a confidence to go do it. Now, the confidence piece, you've got your, you're over that hump and that's one of the things you've said. It's just like, just dive in, drill first in this case, or in Ernie's head first. um the money point i completely appreciate and get the time piece now you mentioned you mentioned you've you've got a family um you know you've got a girlfriend who who takes who takes up time you've got you've got a job so how do you make the time for the for the hobby um i'm typically gone from 5 a.m to 5 p.m and uh it might be an hour drive time boat one way uh so uh when i walk in the door. I feed dogs. I do, you know, take out the trash, everything I can as quickly and as efficiently as I can. And then I go out and I get at least one hour a night in the shop, which is never enough. You get out your soldering iron, you get out all your stuff. There's 20 minutes gone. Now I'm down to 40 minutes of fiction. And then I'm trying to figure out, well, what am I going to do? And then there's another 10 minutes gone. So, you know, I actually get about 30 minutes and then and then it's clean up stuff put stuff up go back in the house you know eat shower go to bed and so there's about seven and a half minutes of actual actual play yeah actual work time on the on the pinball machine yeah yeah you're probably being a little generous there with the seven and a half minutes oh if you know maybe it's six minutes it's it's 10 of the time you allocated is actually time spent on pushing the the actual details of the machine forward.
    41:37
    And so the, you know, it sounds like your girlfriend, you joked about it, but she's supportive of your time and of the hobby.
    41:46
    Oh, yeah. I've actually drug her to a couple pinball tournaments. I've never been to one, and she's never been around that. And I drug her off to a group here in Alabama called PIP, and they invited us to open arms. And, you know, we went there. I got dead last, 31st place.
    42:07
    And my girlfriend actually beat me, who's never played pinball before. As a matter of fact, she was killing it on the EM machines. They made us play new machine, old machine, new machine, old machine in the brackets. And she was just slaughtering people on the old machines. And it was just, I could see that twinkle in her eye. and we watched Pinball, the man who saved the game last night. Oh, my God. Great, great film. I was amazingly surprised that I thought it was going to be a boring, just crazy. I loved how Roger actually did his own commentary for his character. I thought it was fantastically done. We both enjoyed it immensely.
    42:54
    And, you know, how his girlfriend kind of supported him, you know, how crazy april does the same thing she watches me go blindly into these projects and thinks oh my god how much is he going to spend this time or you know or oh my god what has he got himself to and she just goes along she's like you got this you want me to play pinball okay sure you know and then we come home and we critique machines and uh you know and what kind of fun time we had and it's gone from there and now i've got her almost completely hooked i've got i've got to push a little harder but i think i've got her in the in the loop we're looking at a machine now trying to decide what we want and of course the first one she gravitated was an adams family so yeah pick the most expensive used hardest to get game on the planet and that's the one you want Yeah, great.
    43:54
    You get it, don't you? Oh, I absolutely get it. So she likes the EM machine. So is she a nudger as well? She keeps the ball in play or she's just really, really good on the flippers? Okay, so our idea of being good at pinball is stay above the flippers and aim for the flashy lights. we we we neither one of us have ever touched many of the new games so we go to a pinball you know and they've got everything you know transformers you know all the you know uh teenage mutant ninja turtles all you know uh rush and you know all this and we've neither one ever touched one of these machines in our lives and i and she's like so what what do we do on this one i said keep the ball above the flippers and shoot for the whatever's flashing and and like have a good time because you're having a good time what's the point of that fun and of course when we walked out of there and i'm in 31st place my girlfriend's like hey by the way did i mention that i beat you i was like yeah i think i think that came up yeah but but as the case goes with you from what i've you know from from my limited time in in talking to you and interacting with you you went back another tournament and how'd you do that second time and i ended up fifth yeah we had a blast yeah yeah but
    45:18
    you never told me how she doing that tournament uh really badly look look look somebody's got to get first and somebody's got to get last so yeah it's absolutely right right now i mean we're one and one a piece so you know well mike listen it's been i i i think you you went above and beyond the There was, I think, more than three minutes of good content here and good information. You've been an absolute blast to talk to. I genuinely hope this is – Did I cover my BS quota, though? Oh, absolutely. I think we got more than 27 minutes of that. Yeah, that was very important to me that I did not miss my quota of BS in there. I hope that this is the start and not the end of our conversations. I have no doubt that you will continue being a major person in the community, major help for others. I can already see it seeing started to blossom. I know that both of us didn't make it out to TPF, but I do hope to see you at a show and see the machine at a show. And if not, I'm coming down to Alabama to play on the machine. And if you're going to have a reveal party or what you plan on doing, but I definitely want to keep hearing about your journey. I also am here to help you if I can help you. I will be one of the people who, you know, who offers any help that you need. I don't know if I'll be able to help you, but that is appreciative, though, because I'm right now. I'm at the point where I am almost at my limit on knowledge and I'm going to have to start reaching out. And that's the great thing about this hobby and the people that it attracts is we're all thirsty for knowledge. We're all willing to learn new things. And, you know, we know we're not going to be an expert craftsman the very first time we do it. But by the third or the 10th, maybe maybe we'll have a couple of skills to share with others. So absolutely. One thing I do want to say, Dan, is I really want to give some thanks to guys like Jake, Ernie Mudflaps on. I don't know who he is, but he's been really good to me.
    47:30
    Robert Burke, the king of Chicago people, reached out to me, called me physically and told me that he is rooting for me and that he is excited for me. And I have no idea who this cat is. And then I look him up online and I was like, holy cow, this guy took five minutes of his day to call me and tell me that he loves what I'm doing and that he's behind me and supporting me. And that about this community is what's so fantastic. There are good dudes out there, despite the ones who are just there to talk trash. I have been blessed with some amazing new friends and personalities in this world. And I'm thankful for that. And Mike, we're thankful and blessed to have you in our lives as well, because you're adding to it. You are a core piece of this community. Thank you very much. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you very much for taking the time off out of a Sunday. Tell April thank you for the time as well. I cannot wait to see the bugs get worked out of the machine and to see full play and full sound. And I look forward to continue talking with you. Thanks. Hey, you have a great day, brother, and I appreciate you. Thanks. Cheers. thanks for joining the podcast thanks for listening and i can't wait to see what you make
    49:14
    Thank you. you