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The Pinball Show Ep 43: Two Inch Kriesel Stocking, Zach's Big Package, & Lednuts Rocking On An Open Playfield

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·2h 0m·analyzed·Dec 21, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Holiday episode covering Stern's Led Zeppelin announcement with feature breakdown and design analysis.

Summary

The Pinball Show Episode 43 is a holiday-themed episode featuring casual banter about Christmas traditions between hosts Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel, followed by industry news from multiple correspondents. The major story is Stern's announcement of Led Zeppelin as their Q4 2020 cornerstone title, with detailed discussion of the game's features, artwork tiers, and design philosophy. Secondary coverage includes updates from Jersey Jack (Guns N' Roses marketing), Chicago Gaming Company (Cactus Canyon topper coming January), and brief mentions from other manufacturers.

Key Claims

  • Led Zeppelin license took years to obtain and was very difficult to secure

    high confidence · Gary Stern confirmed in dealer teleconference that obtaining the Led Zeppelin license was very difficult and took years of work

  • Led Zeppelin's fourth album ('Four') is the seventh best-selling album of all time

    high confidence · Gary Stern referenced businessinsider.com reporting this statistic during dealer briefing

  • Led Zeppelin Pro has no interactive toys, only static blimp cover and Icarus leaper

    high confidence · Dennis and Zach's analysis: 'so there no toy on the pro I can count the static blimp the Zeppelin Because it doesn't interact with the ball'

  • Premium/LE versions have Electric Magic Multiball mechanism similar to Iron Monger rising effect

    high confidence · Zach describes: 'This one, a very smooth effect, too. It has an opto-spinner surrounded by the mechanism... after you've built that up enough, it will lock in there. The mechanism will drop'

  • Chicago Gaming Company's Cactus Canyon topper is coming in January 2021

    high confidence · Matt Morrison correspondent update: 'I'm now hearing it's coming in January, and if you thought CGC's other toppers were awesome, you haven't seen anything yet'

  • Steve Ritchie chose metal ramps for Led Zeppelin instead of plastic, which typically results in slower play

    medium confidence · Dennis's analysis: 'Steve's professed a preference for plastic because it's faster... I don't know if they decided... they wanted to put more BOM on the ramps and mandated he use metal'

  • Stern's Led Zeppelin stream was pulled from Facebook after 30 minutes due to DMCA copyright issues

    high confidence · Craig Bobby correspondent: 'the stream was unfortunately pulled on Facebook as well after a mere 30 minutes of live streaming'

  • Jersey Jack's Guns N' Roses promo video was produced by Elements Studio and set new standard for pinball reveals

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg update: 'the video shows how they wanted to create a concert-like experience... Many are calling this the new gold standard for pinball reveals'

Notable Quotes

  • “This is a stocking that is approximately like two inches in size... Is this a stocking for ants? Yes, it is. It's an ant-sized stocking.”

    Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel @ ~00:03:00 — Opening casual banter establishing holiday theme and comedic tone

  • “Not a lot going on... I mean, so there no toy on the pro I can count the static blimp the Zeppelin Because it doesn't interact with the ball.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~01:45:00 — Core criticism of Led Zeppelin Pro model's sparse feature set compared to Premium/LE

  • “I've got a half dozen recent Steve Ritchie titles at my disposal that I could choose to buy that give me that same flow. That's a good argument.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~01:50:00 — Key competitive positioning concern: Led Zeppelin Pro doesn't offer differentiation vs. existing Ritchie games

  • “Even Stern couldn't outrun the long arm of the DMCA bots with their own license, as the stream was unfortunately pulled on Facebook as well after a mere 30 minutes of live streaming.”

    Craig Bobby (correspondent) @ ~00:45:00 — Technical issue highlighting streaming platform risks for music-heavy IP reveals

  • “He also talked about the license of Led Zeppelin, Dennis, and how difficult that was to really obtain. We'd only, as media, assumed that and expected it to be really difficult. but he said it was very much confirming it was very difficult to obtain.”

    Zach Minney @ ~00:58:00 — Gary Stern confirms LED Zeppelin licensing difficulty, validating industry assumptions

  • “So, I mean, it's just, and we haven't really seen gameplay of the pro, but even in the promo video, I was a little concerned with the, I guess they're calling it the hermit target, which the warp ramp shot on the pro isn't a ramp, it hits a stand up.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~01:43:00 — Design criticism: Pro model's hermit target reduces flow vs. typical Ritchie design

  • “We have live concert footage. That was a nice surprise... This is old archival 70s goodness, yumminess of the live concert experience of Led Zeppelin.”

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyLed ZeppelingameSteve RitchiepersonTim SextonpersonGary SternpersonZach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonChicago Gaming Company (CGC)companyJersey Jack Pinball (JJP)

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Holiday episode featuring Spooky Pinball and Haggis Pinball teams sending festive greetings; Australian manufacturers emphasized as 'wet house' with strong COVID management and close-knit community

    medium · Dr. John coordinated greetings from Spooky/Haggis teams featuring Bug, Damien, Greg, and others; comedic Australia references about strict isolation success

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Led Zeppelin Pro positioned as less attractive vs. existing Ritchie titles; Dennis argues half-dozen recent Ritchie games offer same flow without incremental value of new theme

    high · Dennis: 'I've got a half dozen recent Steve Ritchie titles at my disposal that I could choose to buy that give me that same flow... Is this more flowy than his other flow games? I don't think so'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Led Zeppelin Pro model criticized for sparse toy count (static blimp only) and hermit target design reducing flow vs. typical Ritchie style; Pro lacks mechanical differentiation expected on Steve Ritchie titles

    high · Dennis: 'so there no toy on the pro I can count the static blimp the Zeppelin Because it doesn't interact with the ball' and 'The pro is actually less flowy than the premium'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Steve Ritchie selected metal ramps for Led Zeppelin instead of preferred plastic, potentially slowing gameplay; unclear if designer choice or manufacturer BOM mandate

    medium · Dennis: 'Steve's professed a preference for plastic because it's faster... I don't know if they decided... they wanted to put more BOM on the ramps and mandated he use metal'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.362

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:10
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of spills. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show.
0:31
It's pinball with personality. So come and die I'm watching you fall I'm so deep in love Baby, please come home Welcome to the lovely Winter Wonderland. It's Christmas time on the Pinball Show. Episode 43 with your host, myself, Zach Minney, and my compadre, Dennis Creasel. Dennis? Hmm, how's it going today? Did you have a nice little break from me? Yeah. It sounded like Jason Fowler went over really well with folks. People like the Fowler. The slap save. I think even he enjoyed it as well. Do you? I do. So much so that we might be hearing more of Fowler in the future. A little foreshadowing there. Oh. Spoilers. So, Dennis, do you have your stocking hanging on your mantle? Yes, I do. Oh. Does that have your name embroidered? on it? No. This is a stocking that is approximately like two inches in size. Oh! That's a little stocking. I hang these little stockings. I hang little stockings. Is this a stocking for ants? Yes, it is. It's an ant-sized stocking. I don't put anything in them. They're just decorative. It's going to have to be at least three times the size. So, uh, do you drink the eggnog? It's Christmas time. I mean... Uh, yes. I do drink eggnog. I don't have any right now. I don't know if I'll get any this year. You know, it's like a thousand calories a cup. If I drink a glass of eggnog, I can't eat for half the day. Do you partake in the consumption of spirits during the holidays? Not usually, no. Really? Nope. Don't get a little loose? I grew up in a dry house. I did not know that.
2:26

Zach Minney @ ~01:32:00 — Positive highlight of archival concert footage feature

  • “The video gives a nice behind-the-scenes tour of how they did it... Many are calling this the new gold standard for pinball reveals.”

    Ken Rudberg (Jersey Jack correspondent) @ ~01:00:00 — JJP Guns N' Roses marketing sets new industry standard for promo quality

    • company
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Haggis Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Craig Bobbyperson
    Matt Morrisonperson
    Ken Rudbergperson
    Dr. Johnperson
    Elements Studiocompany
    Zombie Yetiperson
    Chris Franchiperson
    Jeff Teolisperson

    licensing_signal: Led Zeppelin licensing was exceptionally difficult and took years to secure; Gary Stern explicitly confirmed this challenge during dealer briefing

    high · Gary Stern statement: 'it was very much confirming it was very difficult to obtain' and 'working years to actually get that Led Zeppelin license'

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack's Guns N' Roses promo video (produced by Elements Studio) set new industry standard for pinball marketing quality; multiple sources calling it 'gold standard'

    high · Ken Rudberg: 'Many are calling this the new gold standard for pinball reveals... they really upped their game with this Guns N' Roses promo'

  • ?

    announcement: Stern officially announces Led Zeppelin as Q4 2020 cornerstone title with three-tier pricing structure (Pro/Premium/LE) and detailed feature breakdown

    high · Official announcement with photos, video, and dealer teleconference from Gary Stern on Tuesday before Friday Facebook stream reveal

  • ?

    product_strategy: Chicago Gaming Company's Cactus Canyon topper (described as 'most interactive and beautiful topper CGC has ever produced') confirmed for January 2021 release

    high · Matt Morrison correspondent: 'I'm now hearing it's coming in January, and if you thought CGC's other toppers were awesome, you haven't seen anything yet'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Initial audience disappointment with Led Zeppelin Pro announcement despite positive reception of Premium/LE features; underwhelming art direction compared to established Stern artists (Zombie Yeti, Franchi, Dirty Donnie)

    medium · Zach: 'my first response was, what is this? I was a bit taken back, honestly' and 'This was not it' regarding artwork quality vs. established Stern standard

  • ?

    technology_signal: DMCA copyright bots pulled Stern's Led Zeppelin Facebook livestream after 30 minutes despite moving from Twitch to avoid strikes; streaming platform vulnerability for music-heavy IP

    high · Craig Bobby: 'even Stern couldn't outrun the long arm of the DMCA bots with their own license, as the stream was unfortunately pulled on Facebook as well after a mere 30 minutes'

    • Dry and naked house. We just didn't have that stuff around. A choice? I don't understand. No, the law came and took all the spirits. This is a drunk house here. Couldn't have any. No, no, no. We weren't like in a county that forbade it or anything. Okay, that's gross. We didn't. My parents didn't drink, so we didn't have alcohol for Christmas or anything. Do you think you'll get plastered this Christmas? No, I don't. I don't normally drink ever on Christmas. You don't want to get drunk together and do a Zoom call? I'm in. I think that sounds terrible. Oh, why? What else are you going to be doing? What are you going to be doing on the holidays here? I'd probably be opening my two-inch stocking.
    3:08
    Do you believe in Santa? Well, here's what I believe, Zach. I believe that if you want to buy yourself a gift, it's a great way just to label it from Santa and then stick it under the tree. Do you think you're going to be bringing in any pretty cool gifts from family? Well, I mean, most people probably just buy off of my wish list, so yeah, I guess. Oh, please tell me what's on your wish list. I'm not telling you. Just a couple things. No, it's a secret.
    3:37
    Would you like to know my lamest gift on the list? I would, thank you. A paper shredder. Well, that's not too lame. It's pretty lame. Okay. Is it a dedicated one with a bin, or do you have to add it to the top of your bin? No, it's a dedicated one with a bin. Yeah. And it can shred CDs, in case you still have any from 1997. Nicely done. So that means it can shred credit cards and all kinds of things. Yes. Oh, you're seeing it. You're seeing it. Before you leave the country. But I don't know if I'm going to get it. Sniff.
    4:10
    It's like a wedding registry. I like that you have a wish list. Is it through like searsrobuck.com or something? Through Amazon. Do you have any jammies on that list? No. Do you wear jammies on Christmas? On Christmas Eve, yes. Awesome! I always get a set from my mom. I love it. And I usually wear them once, and then I give them to Goodwill. Man, she must not be buying the good jammies. I don't normally wear jammies. I love that you said it. So what are you going to be doing on Christmas? I want a quick rundown of your Christmas activities. Well, I'll probably see my parents. We'll do a socially distanced Christmas at their house. And I don't think any of my other family will be there. That'll be it. All right. We'll probably do Chinese. A Christmas story and a Creasel household quasi-tradition Okay Fred G. Lee I gotcha Will your chestnuts be roasting on an open fire If you know what I mean No, we don't do fire What? They don't have a fireplace Scarecrow family?
    5:19
    Fire Sorry if I offended all you scarecrows out there I'm trying to think what Since you didn't fucking ask I will be spending the days as well with my beautiful and wonderful wife and children. I'll be opening up presents with them. And then I will be scouring through our supply of batteries and trying to equip all of the new toys with batteries as well as assembling every godforsaken toy that my wife has bought them. Are you going to record those and assemble them blindfolded and assemble them drunk and assemble them while bees are stinging you?
    5:58
    Bees! You know, all the stupid crap you do with the pinball stock. What is that? What is that? What is that? Oh, no, not the bees! Not the bees! Ah!
    6:10
    I don't have my eyes! Yeah, I don't think so, but you're giving me ideas over here. What was the gift you wanted the most, though? I mean, like, for this year? No. Oh, like an iTunes gift card? Well, you use... No, no. You probably use Microsoft Zune still or something.
    6:29
    That's mean to say, and I do not. Well, that sounds pretty, what was the word I'm looking for? Underwhelming overall, Dennis. Well, I'm sorry that I and my lifestyle have disappointed you yet again. No, it's just to the point that I just, thanks, COVID. I want to drive over to your house, have matching jammies, drink eggnog together. I hate matching clothes, and I've seen your family photos. You guys are fans of that stuff. Well, let the record show my wife is. I wasn't going to make any accusations. I'm just going to say that I've noticed there's a preponderance of putting people in the same shirts. Oh, God. Oh, please. No, I would love to spend the holidays with you, but I know we can't because of COVID, and I know that that's the only reason that we can't. It's the only reason.
    7:23
    We're going to kick it over to our correspondents for some pretty good news. There's a lot of news this week. Wow. I really want to showcase the correspondents did a really good job this week. Some of them went above and beyond. Thank you so much for that. Who went above us and beyond us? Was it Chris Chandler, the strongest of the correspondents? This week I'm going to give it to Dr. John. Oh. He gets the Correspondent of the Week award. Yep. He gets the award this week. Okay. You're going to hear it now. But first, hold up. Yeah, I can't do it. I cannot go on without being a part of your Christmas. Dennis, it just wouldn't be right without me just professing my love and showcasing that here to the listening audience. I got a gift for you, Dennis.
    8:12
    You shouldn't have. I mean that. I know. And here's the thing. Here's why I'm popping it up on here. I knew that if I would have given you a gift, you would have returned it or you would have gotten upset. I know that we agreed that there's no gift. There's no, this was the agreement. There's no thing. Lucky if I even am referred to you as a friend in public. I get it. But Nicole and I wanted to give you a gift. So we did. And I'm going to throw it on you right now so that you, because you can't tell these people no. Right? This is from your listeners too. Everybody came together. They didn't. But they all come together. And just like the who's in Whoville, we purchased something for you that I think means a lot to us. and I wanted to present it to you here. What I'm going to do is I'm going to text you a picture of it because I don't have it yet. But it's on its way. Sam, it's been taking a little bit longer this time around. And I want to get your reaction here live on the air because why not showcase our relationship live here? Does that sound good? Okay, well, I guess I have no choice. I'm scared. All right, listener, I'm sending over a picture to Dennis Creasel via text form right now. he is going to be upset. That's just the way it's going to be, but deep down his heart's going to grow three sizes bigger.
    9:34
    It's a fun Grinch reference. Let me know when you got it. Messenger. Oh, you didn't actually do this. Uh-huh.
    9:47
    Dennis. Absolutely I did. Oh, no, that's way too much. What? No! No, it's not too much. Yeah, no. That's not appropriate.
    9:58
    Sure it's not appropriate. When have I ever been appropriate? Well, that's a fair point. Absolutely. Merry Christmas, buddy. Wow. Well, thank you very much. You will accept it? Well, it would be rude to refuse. Thank you. That's all I want because I knew you'd throw a fit. That's what I thought.
    10:18
    Wow. I'm very surprised. Wow. you really should not have done that though i know i knew it would make you feel uncomfortable but i just wanted to showcase because you do a lot of people don't realize how much you do uh and you help out in a lot of ways and i don't always get to thank you for that so i wanted to thank you in a way that i thought you would enjoy and uh and i wanted to have the listener share that experience with us. Yeah, no, I mean,
    10:52
    so I guess it's an Xbox Series X, I guess. Absolutely. It ain't going to shortchange you on an S or whatever the hell it's called. I can't. It's just the preparing order, so it's hard to tell. Yeah, I was able to secure one. Dennis, we have been, for the last couple weeks, trying our damnedest to get Dennis Creasel a new Xbox Series X, and it happened, as you see, on December 15th, I was able to secure an Xbox Series X for one of my best buddies, Dennis Creasel, but it says it arrives by January 7th. But I think it might come early. Who knows? But it's on its way, man. So hopefully your Cyberpunk will work better? You probably bought the digital version. But, no, no, I have a disc. It was a gift. Does it work on Xbox Series X or are you going to buy another one? No, no, it does. Sweet. No more long jumps for you, my friend. I don't know. The bugs are supposed to be there, just not the crashes. Oh, okay. I don't feel bad because, you know, I sent you nothing. No, you didn't believe me. I didn't expect. I didn't want. The whole point of this whole thing was for me to just show you some appreciation because I get enough from you, man. I honestly do. I will say thank you. It's far kinder than I warranted. Not true, but absolutely. Fully accepted. I appreciate you, buddy. And happy holidays to all of those. Let's take it over to our correspondents and see what they've drummed up for us. Note that it wasn't a free pinball machine, folks.
    12:31
    I'm waiting for Cointaker to send you one of those. Melissa, hook me up. She'll send you an alien. It's time for TPN Industry News. Hi all to this week's Christmas edition of the Pinball Show with the SHIT update, that's Spooky Haggis Industry Talk, for those who don't know, with Dr John. No news this week, just wanted to pass on my holiday greetings, whatever method of celebration you prefer to use in your locality.
    13:07
    I hope you have a good celebration with friends if possible via virtual meetings if necessary and with pinball at all costs. Have a good one. Hopefully 2021 will be better and look forward to seeing what the future holds. I've got a couple of greetings which will be played from the Spooky and the Haggers team and I'll leave that up to Zach to insert where appropriate. Catch you all next year.
    13:35
    Hey Bug, we're supposed to record a Christmas greeting for Zach and Dennis. Oh, I know Zach. Zach's the nice one from straight down the middle, right? Oh, yeah, we know Zach. Yeah, okay, so Zach and Dennis and all the listeners of The Pinball Show. Wait, is that the actual title of the show? The Pinball Show? That's very creative. Hang on, let's look at, let's check that out. Hang on. Hold it up on Google, quick. I'm typing, and... Oh, here. Oh, here's some reviews. All right. Two-hour podcast, minimal pinball. Not sure how anyone could listen to this two-hour... Oh, wow. Lame attempts at humor. Stupid singing? Awful funny voices. They stole our act! These jerks. Bugger. Okay, so they just think they can call their podcast any old pinball show. Just steal our ideas. All right, well, happy Christmas to everybody except Zach and Dennis. Yeah, yeah, screw those guys. Everybody with an original podcast. Let's go leave a review. Yeah.
    14:28
    Is there a goading? Anterior butthole. Stop! Dr. John, start with your anterior butthole. Stop! Hey everybody, it's Damien and... Ah, fuck, I forgot. We're off to a good start, aren't we? Hey everybody, it's Damien and... Greg. ...Groom Haggis. I've got a couple of ring-ins. Mark and Robyn's here. Jessie J. Hayley. Daniels. And we're all at Hatchman's Christmas Party, wishing everybody a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I hope your balls are shiny and your... stats... The interior potholes are sufficiently evacuated. That's... And your flippers are long. One, two, three. Merry Christmas!
    15:18
    Not even Stern can outrun the long arm of the law. Hey, everyone, Craig here again, the pinball show's Stern News correspondent. Yes, the rock icon's Led Zeppelin pinball machine was officially shown in all its glory on Friday night live on the Stern Facebook page in an effort to try and avoid copyright infringement strikes by not streaming the game on their usual Twitch live streaming platform. However, as predicted by Travis Murie on his Marv Loco YouTube channel, even Stern couldn't outrun the long arm of the DMCA bots with their own license, as the stream was unfortunately pulled on Facebook as well after a mere 30 minutes of live streaming. Oh my god! Can you believe it? This was of course much to the disappointment of hundreds of pinheads that had tuned in to catch a first glimpse of Stern's tribute to the 70s iconic rock group. Reviews on Stern's Led Zeppelin have so far been a little mixed, with most criticism being leveled toward the game's somewhat controversial art packages and relatively wide open playfield with few moving toys or innovative mechanical features. However, once seen in action with all its psychedelic RGB colors and rocking tunes, most that turned into the stream could see that Steve Ritchie was living up to his King of Flow title as the ball rocketed around the playfield and by the end, most in attendance agreed, the game looked fun and left the crowd wanting more as the stream was sadly pulled from the internet. Wah, wah.
    17:00
    And with sales of the limited edition Zeppelins, machines selling out upon the game's announcement, and interest in the pros and premium editions continuing to be high, Stern should have no trouble meeting their sales forecast again and keeping that all-critical manufacturing line rolling. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Happy holidays. Happy New Year. Keep on rockin'. Bye, bye, bye. Sell, sell, sell. Be safe. And catch you on the flip side. Jesus Christ. Oh my God, I don't want to do another one of these ever again. Like, seriously. Can 2020 please be over yet? I mean, holy fuck. Give me back online one. I've had enough.
    17:43
    Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. When the promo video came out for Guns N' Roses, I think people were a little surprised at how slick and professional it was. It was put together by a company called Elements Studio, and Jersey Jack posted on their Facebook page a short video that shows the behind-the-scenes making of the trailer. The video shows how they wanted to create a concert-like experience for the pinball reveal, and that they even used animations from the Guns N' Roses World Tour in the background on the LED screens. This was the same company that produced trailer videos for both The Hobbit and Dialed In But I think it's safe to say that they really upped their game with this Guns N' Roses promo Many are calling this the new gold standard for pinball reveals And the video gives a nice behind-the-scenes tour of how they did it For The Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update
    18:42
    Alright, I couldn't leave you guys hanging with no news before Christmas Matt Morrison here with your CGC update for the week. I'm going to give you guys the old Kenner IOU, like the first run of Star Wars figures. Not a full reveal, just a little taste of what's to come. Something you haven't heard anywhere yet. Most of you know it's widely reported the next title from CGC is Cactus Canyon. I'm now hearing it's coming in January, and if you thought CGC's other toppers were awesome, you haven't seen anything yet. I'm hearing this is the most interactive and beautiful topper CGC has ever produced.
    19:15
    So Dennis, grab a bucket of water, because the Topper King is getting hot, hot, hot and bothered by all this Topper talk. He's going to be on about this thing for the next three weeks. In all seriousness, I hope all of you have a safe and happy, healthy holiday, and I hope to see some of you at a show sometime in 2021. Fingers crossed. For Chicago Gaming Company, I'm Matt Morrison. Back to you guys.
    19:39
    Hey, this is Kaz with a quick American Pinball update. While there's no major news this week, American Pinball is having a sale up to 20% off merchandise, parts and accessories and also available there's just a very few Amy Pin 16x20 translights that are eliminated by lit frames check out the American Pinball Facebook page for more details hope everybody has a great week happy holidays, merry Christmas hope everyone has fun playing pinball for the Pinball Show, this is Brian Cosner alright Dennis, always great to hear from the correspondents Well, usually great. I don't know there.
    20:18
    It looks like Craig Bobby's done for the year. Yeah. So I hope you're called with him well. Yeah, well. Is he going to start asking you to segregate out all the red M&Ms out of the bowl for him? He's getting a little big. Yeah, that's my worry. Yeah, I had to bring him down a couple of notches. That's okay. Instead of, hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. I think we're good there. We love Craig Bobby. Thank you, Craig. Well, you're the people person, so you smooth all that stuff out. But am I? I don't want to be smoked. But am I? Kind of. I mean, in a way, no, but in a way, yeah. Depends on who you're talking to. You have training in that. I don't. Which makes it more sad for me. Dr. John reached out, wished us a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, as well as some of his friends from Spooky Pinball and Haggis Pinball. Thank you all to those organizations. I don't think they know me. What? I got that distinct vibe. Well, they probably need a nice one. I bought one of their games. Direct. Well, maybe Morgan, a.k.a. Squirrel, knows you. Or KT. That's true. Morgan probably knows me. Morgan. That's who I interact with on the dealer side. Morgan. But her email is Squirrel. So funny. I love it. So that was a lot of fun. Thank you to all the gang over there. Haggis sounded... They had some of our other friends on there. Jesse Jay and Martin Robbins, etc. Celebratory. Very festive. That group over there. I don't think they grew up in the same dry house I did.
    21:45
    Very wet house over there. Yeah. I like a slip and slide down there. I love that that entire continent is like rubbing their lack of COVID cases in their faces at this point. Well, I can't blame them, so. I just picture all of their Christmas parties, them licking one another as they open presents. No, come on. Have you ever met the Aussies? I've met a few. But I've never been to Australia. They're a touchy-feely bunch over there, and I love it. Stern Pinball this week announces Led Zeppelin, their new cornerstone title for Q4 2020. Let's see. We had that announcement on Tuesday? Tuesday and the stream on Friday. Yes. A little behind-the-scenes action, if you guys enjoy that, here at the Pinball Show. On Tuesday morning, right before the reveal, Still, distributors and dealers had that teleconference with Gary Stern, or video conference. And always fun. I love those things. It's one of my favorite parts of being a dealer, as I've said before. But some tidbits that Gary Stern gave us that you might not hear elsewhere. He talked about the license of Led Zeppelin, Dennis, and how difficult that was to really obtain. We'd only, as media, assumed that and expected it to be really difficult. but he said it was very much confirming it was very difficult to obtain. He also talked about working years to actually get that Led Zeppelin license. Well, they are notorious for being challenging to obtain licensure for, so I'm not too surprised by this. Absolutely. Gary Stern also referred us over to a source, businessinsider.com, who reports that Led Zeppelin, their fourth album, Four, Led Zeppelin Four is the seventh best-selling album of all time. He was talking to us about why that license is still relevant, why it's popular, and why it makes sense to create a pinball machine around it. Okay. Well, I don't know why they didn't do any art from Led Zeppelin 4 then. I knew it was their biggest selling album. I didn't know that it was seventh best selling of all time. The album art on Led Zeppelin.
    23:52
    Well, and that was kind of, you know, 4 is the guy with like the bundle of sticks, if I remember. Yeah. I'm not sure I didn't describe that very fairly at all. Isn't the old guy with the sticks? I think that's a better or worse than they are on the Pro, but we'll get to that. So seventh best-selling album of all time. He also was showing the actual top seven best-selling albums of all time, some of which they've already covered. ACDC was in there, I believe. Who else was in there? Beatles were in there. They've covered that. Other things that he kind of suggested they probably aren't going to go after, things like Michael Jackson's album, I believe it was Thriller that was in there, and Billy Joel. Could you go for a Billy Joel pinball machine? I mean, I enjoy Billy Joel. Yeah, I like Billy Joel. But aren't you going to get pinball people saying that piano is too soft and slow for pinball?
    24:45
    Yeah, it could be. I mean, I'm not sure that's actually true. I'm not sure that song speed really matters as much as people claim it does. I don't either after listening to the ballads on J.J.P.'s Guns N' Roses, but okay. I see your point. He also talked about the, and we know this, but the pro artwork on the Led Zeppelin pinball machine is based off of the album artwork for 3, their third album there over at Led Zeppelin, which many have been kind of creating memes about already.
    25:19
    I don't know what you mean. Well, I got a message, that's all. And it was nicely done, too. The premium artwork is based off of their album art from One. You see that Zeppelin blimp and the Hindenburg. And then the Ellie artwork Gary talked about is being based off of the Zeppelin recording label, their branding, depicting that Icarus figure. With that being said, we rolled into the actual announcement where we got the sizzle video of it. We had all types of high-res pictures. It was nice to get. I've got to be honest, Dennis. When I first was presented this in the meeting, we were presented with the photos and video of the Pro, and then we were presented the premium LE versions. and my first response was, what is this? I was a bit taken back, honestly. We're so used to artwork that is defined by Zombie Yeti or Chris Franchi or Dirty Donnie or the likes. This was not it. And then we saw the play field, and that didn't surprise me as much because I'm used to contemporary, modern Steve Ritchie's layouts. But what was your first reaction when you seen the video, the teaser of this? I was, I guess, not surprised, and that disappointed me. Mm-hmm. I just, it's like I'd heard that there was going to be, it's going to be a three-flipper game. And as soon as I heard that, I was like, I know where that third flipper will be. And it was where it was. It was in the warp ramp. And, yeah, and I just, and of course, you know, Steve Ritchie, I did expect it to be a flow game. and I didn't want him to deviate from that aspect of it. But I just saw it, and I was underwhelmed. Yeah, I think it's fair. Let's go through the main features, and then we'll talk about some details and our thoughts regarding this recent Cornerstone release by Stern Pinball. We know the designer, Steve Ritchie, software is being done by Tim Sexton as lead, as well as another group of coders there. We have 10 full-length songs in this game. Music is interactive to the gameplay, which is nice to hear. I like that. We've seen a lot of that on Guns N' Roses. So we're getting a lot of things. We're lighting, music, all interacting to the playability of the title. We have live concert footage. That was a nice surprise. We have some custom animation for each and every song. So we get live concert footage for each of those songs. And it's not current stuff. This is old archival 70s goodness, yumminess of the live concert experience of Led Zeppelin. And there's no better time to showcase Led Zeppelin than then.
    28:08
    We have a sweepable bank of drop targets. A lot of people aren't talking about that. Gary Sturm was really big on that, that the center drop down targets on that third flipper, they actually are sweepable. That's a cool shot. Yeah, it is cool. So the premium LE version is going to offer some things that the pro version doesn't, including the electric magic multiball. It is a mechanism that rises out of the playfield. What would I think of? I wouldn't think of Iron Monger, would I? There you go. Thank you. Think Iron Monger rising out of the playfield, a cool effect. This one, a very smooth effect, too. It has an opto-spinner surrounded by the mechanism, and it's a pass-through. So you hit this opto spinner as a pass-through, and you get a magnet mechanism, an entire plate that's magnetized that after you've built that up enough, it will lock in there. The mechanism will drop, taking the bowl with it, and then later upon return, you've got to knock it out a la Star Trek to disengage that multi-ball. Yeah, Vengeance Shot style, yeah. So we do have that. I'm glad that there is an opto spinner in there. We also get a new thing from Stern Pinball that feels familiar, but it is certainly a take on additional lighting for a concert-like experience. It's called the Expression Lighting System, which there are 90 fixed RGB LEDs that are mounted inside the routing and inside routed cabinet of the Premium LE model, as well as an optional accessory for the Pro model. We know that the Pro has three ramps. The Premium LE technically has four ramps. And for more information, photos, videos, you can go to Stern Pinballs social media, Facebook, Instagram, or their website for additional photos if you want to follow along.
    29:53
    Okay, Dennis, is there a model that stands out? Yeah, Premium. Premium LE, I guess you want to consider as a group. So it's substantial to you, the additions you get in that? Oh my gosh the Pro so stripped Zach It so stripped Not a lot going on I mean so there no toy on the pro I can count the static blimp the Zeppelin Because it doesn't interact with the ball. Isn't it just a cover on the ramp? Yes. I would have loved to have seen balls locked in there physically. I mean, so I guess all you get is the little jiggly Icarus guy. You see Icarus when you hit it like a leaper? Yeah, a leaper. Thank you. So, I mean, it's just, and we haven't really seen gameplay of the pro, but even in the promo video, I was a little concerned with the, I guess they're calling it the hermit target, which the warp ramp shot on the pro isn't a ramp, it hits a stand up. And then it seems to bounce back, I guess, into the terrain. It's a spell rock on the right. That's the idea, yeah. And then land on the right sling, maybe. Not a safe shot. No, and that's okay. It's just normally with Steve Ritchie's, if anything, the pros are more flowy, and this obviously replacing a ramp shot with this kind of out-of-control return feed reduces flow. The pro is actually less flowy than the premium. So, yeah, the premium stands out because I don't know what to get excited about on the pro. Flow. Speed. Yeah, flow. Led Zeppelin. Here's my challenge, Zach, and it's a fair point. And I think the rules that I heard on... Pinball Profile. Thank you. Pinball Profile, Jeff Trillis, when he interviewed Tim Sexton. The rules sound really interesting. I think that this will feel good to shoot, even with that hermit target. I think the pro will feel really flowy and fun to shoot. But I've got a half dozen recent Steve Ritchie titles at my disposal that I could choose to buy that give me that same flow. That's a good argument. Like, am I supposed to... Is this more flowy than his other flow games? I don't think so. I don't either. It may be just as fast.
    32:01
    I mean, I think it's as flowy as a lot of games. I would say it probably plays a little slower, given that they've opted for metal ramps. Steve's professed a preference for plastic because it's faster. So I don't know if they decided in the case of this game that they wanted to put more BOM on the ramps and mandated he use metal, or he just decided, I'll use metal for this. I mean, even on the premium, you know, unlike the warp ramp shot on Star Trek, this feeds back to the right flipper. So it's not like a quick repeatable sort of shot. It's going to take some time. Yeah. He's got some things that will give you some time. All the shots are towards the back. It's much like you'd see with a fan layout. Obviously, it's not a fan because we have that only accessible by third flipper shot. The center ramp, that's a little different than what he normally goes with. He usually has something more mechanical. I'm thinking like Vengeance or Sandman or the bell shot on AC. Normally he doesn't have something that returns that way. So in a way I could kind of see that being a little bit different on his flow. Usually his center shot is more stop. But otherwise I just – And that's why you talk about that back shot being a ramp rather than a bash bell or a bash vengeance. To me, I like to, for better or worse, it's more for fun. This is not objective, but I like to take mashups of games that a designer has done before and say, this feels like this plus this or this plus this plus this. Sure. For me, this is the love child of an ACDC and I don't hear anybody talking about it, but a T3, a Terminator 3, which also features three predominant ramps. That's interesting. I had spent such a long time since I played T3, but I don't disagree about doing that comparison. The layout feels a lot like an ACDC, especially with that right orbit to the scoop and then the left orbit bypassing that left scoop. It feels like that, but then you get the predominant feature being, especially on the Pro, the three ramps, which when's the last time we saw three metal-like ramps on a Ritchie? It was T3. Now, this is Led Zeppelin. Some of the things that I question and I don't like as much, so we'll get the bad out of the way first before the good. Of course, the look of it, I question the artwork. Out of all three of them, I'm not going to make any excuses. None of them stand out to me. Maybe I'm spoiled by zombie Yeti stuff, but I always think to myself, Yeti's kind of the gold standard for me. So I think to myself, what would Yeti have done to this package? And I think whatever he would have done, it would have been better than this. I don't disagree. I think the issue, though, is, and this just seems like poor Steve Ritchie's fate, that he gets, I'm assuming that they probably, Leading and Led Zeppelin, probably mandated, you will use our official assets, and didn't allow for hand-drawn, different than any already approved hand-drawn, obviously, that they went with. I just, I'm sure there are plenty of people who disagree, and they're fine to disagree. I have never liked Led Zeppelin III's art. I think it's horrid. I don't like the looks of it either. I think it's horrid. It's a weird doodle-looking collage. I guess with the album itself, there's some really cool stuff, like if you move things around, how it looks. But this is not that. This is the size of a pinball cabinet, and I just think that it looks downright horrid. I have always said I don't make my buying decisions based off of the art, and that's true here, too. I would still be willing to own the Pro-Eat in spite of the art. But I just, as I sat and tried to think about it, I couldn't figure out why they went with it. Why they went with, they're only getting to use official assets. Like, all right, premium. Led Zeppelin, Led Zeppelin 1. I get it. It's iconic. It was the first album. They have two songs out of the ten come from Led Zeppelin's first album.
    36:04
    They have one song, Immigrant Song, is the only song in this game that they've listed that was on album three. So it's not strongly tied to the actual audio package that they went with. It wasn't a critically well-received album. Their first three all were somewhat not well-received at the time, so I guess it's not too shocking. And it's ugly. I think that they could have gotten away with that tribute as the Translight and really made it part of that Translight.
    36:35
    But yeah, I'm in complete agreement with you. The cabinet is just too much. There are so many other ones. I get it. I don't think Led Zeppelin, as my hot take, I don't think Led Zeppelin's albums as standalone art pieces are very impressive in general. No, that's what I was saying. But, I mean, something like Physical Graffiti could have been done, and they could have, you know, it's kind of a sepia style. And, I mean, they went with a kind of monochromatic look for the premium with Led Zeppelin I, so why not do Physical? Again, you get two songs from Physical Graffiti in the game. The way it splits is they have four albums that have two songs from there, and then there are two albums that have one song. So I don't understand. So Led Zeppelin III and Houses of the Holy only have one song in the game. So I don't see why you do art packages associated with those albums if you didn't care enough about them to put more than one song in. And that being said, take a look sometime at Led Zeppelin III's album list, and I bet you Immigrant Song is the only one you know. Yeah, I wouldn't have minded just knowing Led Zeppelin a little bit. Houses of the Holy, that's pretty wicked. Now, that's a weird art package. That's pretty wicked. Don't mind me. They have one song in the game from that. Yeah, the album I'm talking about is called Mothership. Mothership is a compilation album. Okay. I'm not surprised they didn't go with it in 2007.
    37:53
    Now, that's pretty cool art. It's more modern, so it's not too shocking. So from an art perspective, I'm not wild about it. Even on the play field, there are some glimpses of beauty. Bottom third, I really like all of that ornate illustration, the colors they use down there.
    38:10
    Again, middle play field is what kind of throws me, that monochromatic Zeppelin. Yeah, it's colorful. I mean, to me, the play field, I hate to do another Star Trek analogy, but it's essentially inoffensive but not impressive. But I think that the foreheads, the faces of the band members, I get why they're there, but I think that'll probably be the part that bothers a lot of people. Yeah, and I still like the play-filled art better than I do Star Trek, better than I do Game of Thrones. I'll give it that. It's more creative. Definitely more creative. So we got that. The playability, this thing looks like it's going to play well fast, but you're right. Pro doesn't seem like it has a lot. I'm not crazy about that upper flipper shot that just hits a stand-up target. I guess if you wanted to try and move more premium units making that change is a great way to make people feel they have no choice but again I have often when I look at premiums usually initially are like I don't know if I could live with a pro and then as time goes by and I see more gameplay I change my position on that so we'll see but the difference here like I'm thinking of things like adventures and stuff but the difference here is if I go back and I say things like Star Trek where there wasn't really that much real difference, or we talk about something like Game of Thrones. The game got faster and flowier in the pro version, and that is not the case here. Very true. Even the plunge, we've got that damn cross-playfield plunge again that ugh, see, Richie seems alive. Yeah, but it's not going to smack into some center bank this time. Of course, but it's still not a controlled orbit plunge, or you know, safe to the flipper plunge.
    39:45
    Yeah, but you can soft plunge it and should be able to drop it down to that right flipper. Unless it hits that sensitive stern sling. Granted, you could soft plunge on Star Wars too, so maybe that's not a fair comparison. The issue with Star Wars was, of course, if you weren't fast enough and you're starting things up, that the auto plunge would screw you. Yeah, it'll get you. Yeah. So, we're missing a big old toy. If we're talking about the premium LE, this electric magnet area, the concept is cool. I like the concept of an opto-spinner coming out of the play field And you get to hit that thing And it has an internal magnet component Badass I like that I think I'm really going to like that Especially after seeing the screen We can talk more about that in a second I'm still mixed on that third flipper Even the turnaround Because I wasn't crazy about the turnaround On even like a Jurassic Park It doesn't do much for me It doesn't really They're sure doing it Like, the 100% design team sure is infatuated with that style lately. Well, you know why? It's a space thing. You can get a quasi-ramp in the space area of a scoop. Look at the real estate that a ramp takes up, much less a 180 thing. That's little. That's a good point. I think that's why they do it. But the feeling of satisfaction I don't know is going to be there as much as a warp ramp or even an inter-orbit repeatable. A repeatable. Well, you know, the whole thing with, like, the warp ramp was you could get into that groove and keep building your warp. And it's not that it's a super hard shot. It's just it's one of those. It's just there's a flow to it. There's a flow to it that was super satisfying. The premium toy, the electric magic toy, I think it'll probably go over okay. Initially, I was concerned because center spinners often aren't very popular. Correct. It's very difficult with players because they don't have the satisfaction of the orbit spinner. There's a risk usually of it coming right back off the spinner. The magnet prevents that from being a factor. That is an opto-spinner will go over great. And it's the shot geometry too. Anytime you're laying something in the middle of a playfield, ramps are the same way. You're never going to have, listener, a ramp that's in the center that is as satisfying as one that is flanked to the left or to the right. Just based on geometry, it's not going to. That's why you see a lot of bash toys in the middle of a play field, because it's accessible. It'll interact, and it'll give you some feedback, but you don't have to rely on the feel of that shot as much. That's probably one of my big issues with the shooting on Hobbit is that center range. Sure, sure. Yep. It's easily accessible from either flipper, center all day. Here's one of the things everybody was complaining about, that Icarus. Oh, look, I don't like that figure everywhere. I honestly don't mind that. I think the art on the LE, I'm good with it. I'm actually good with the art on the LE. We get mirroring. We get color, at least. I'm good with that classic vintage feel, and I'm good with it on the play field. I'm good with it on the figurine. I don't know. I'm missing something on that because that seems vintage and cool. I like that. My guess is some of it is just a little that it's a nude Icarus with no genitals, just sort of weird to people. So I think that's part of it. I think that for me, the bigger issue, like if I were to pick an art package, it would be the premium. And my problem with the LE is not, except I suppose, other than really hardcore Led Zeppelin fans, they don't really associate their label icon with them. It's going with an album, another album cover would have been more appealing because they're more familiar with another album. So I think that's the issue is that you look at that. When I saw it, I was like, Icarus? I'm trying to think of, like, is this from a song? I'm sure that they're with something, but yeah. I prefer the LA. It sounds like you like the premium. It'd be hard to go pro on this one for me unless you're just looking for an affordable.
    43:50
    Affordable. That's subjective. But the most affordable way to represent everything that is pinball that is Led Zeppelin. It's going to give that all to you. And I don't think any other manufacturer, Dennis, could, number one, obtain the license, number two, do so and still provide a product at this cost. I just don't. I mean, until I see the Pro in play, I'm too uncomfortable to say that I definitely wouldn't like it. I don't want to say I wouldn't like it. I think, based off of the flow and based off of Timmy's rule outline, I think that it will be a fun game. It's just, I mean, in my personal case, I already own Star Trek. So for me to take another Richie Flo-based game It needs to do something that is not this Sure I can see the argument So there are a lot of things that I particularly Am kind of down on, on this title Some of the things that are really well done on this In my opinion I think they've perfected that right ramp We've seen Borg use something very similar in the Munsters where it is as smooth as a regular non-inverted ramp. The right ramp was butter. They were backhanding the damn thing, and I do like that Steve Ritchie Games, you can backhand these ramps. We're even being told that to increase flow, not only the backhands help, but we also have that center ramp that reportedly is accessible by all three flippers. I question that top flipper, because you can make the left ramp on Star Trek with that upper right flipper too, but I wouldn't call that a feel-good shot. No, that's an accident. You accidentally flipped too soon, I think. I actually hit that left ramp more than the warp ramp with the upper right. I'm ashamed to say. Every time I hit that, I feel like a failure. I'm like, oh, God, Zach. I'm just glad I didn't kill myself in an outline because that also happened to me on the warp ramp shot. But, yeah, I noticed on the stream the backhanding of the left and right. I didn't see a moment with the third flipper actually accessing the center ramp, but I didn't see much of the stream. Okay. Well, we'll discuss that. But the layout, I think, is going to be fun. From the stream, we did see a fun, fast, bright, action-y, vintage, psychedelic experience that did surprise me. I did like how they psychedelic-ed up the footage from the concerts. I thought that was a really cool way to do it. I thought it worked for this style. What about the song choices? I like that you do get ten songs. They're missing my favorite in Over the Hills, which I think was a big flop. How do you not have that? But nobody talks about that when they talk about Stairway to Heaven. That's their most famous song from their most successful album. Yes, but it's no Over the Hills. Song selection's good.
    46:48
    I mean, to me, it depends what style. I mean, Zeppelin did a number of songs. It depends what you, I personally feel that their best song, like, assembled structurally, just objectively, Cashmere is their best song, so that they put Cashmere in there. And it follows sort of that ballad-esque progression. I think it doesn't stand out in the same way that Stairway does, but it's a better song than Stairway. so I'm glad that one was in there that would be, I mean my second favorite Zeppelin song is Babe I'm Gonna Leave You no way they would have something that slow in but and yeah it's from their first album but it's got a lot of I mean it has immigrant song everyone who watches School of Rock they don't know anything else about Led Zeppelin Black Dog, come on some people despise Black Dog but again, and Black Dog is in a lot of ways it's really cool because you know that whole pre-chorus section and I had to check because I don't know timing well enough. It syncs so weird. Apparently, the guitar and bass in that, that's played in 9-8 time, while Bonham is doing 4-4 on the drums. That's why it sounds, it integrates so strangely. Wow, look at you, Tealus. And that's part of the thing with Cashmere. Cashmere, the strings, including the guitar, that's in 3-4. The vocals and drums are in 4-4. That's why it's only every 12th that you get it all, that hits all together, and it gives it that exotic sound. Not to mention that Page's guitar is in Celtic tuning, not standard tuning for Kashmir. Holy shit, the more you know. That's right. It's a D-A-D-G-A-D tuning rather than the E-A-D-G-B-E tuning that you typically hear in rock. That's why this song is better than everything else. Bye, bye, bye. I thought I got a chub just listening to Over the Hills. Now I get it listening to you talking about Led Zeppelin. I love Kashmir. It's an incredible song, and I'm glad it's there. But, I mean, Ramble On, that's a big, I mean, a whole lot of love. I could see where people who are Zeppelin fans would... I mean, I could easily see you go, okay, let's throw out Communication Breakdown and bring in Stairway. Let's go and take The Song Remains the Same, throw it out and put Over the Hills in it. I mean, I could agree to some swaps here, but it's not a bad list. It's not a bad list. And I do like... We'll talk about the stream. I do like the playability of this damn thing. It looks like it shoots very fun, And I got a lot of feel of, and people are not going to like this comparison, Star Wars. You know how fond I am of that title. Well, the premium.
    49:23
    Exactly, the premium. But just in general, the flow of that game, I was playing it all week this week, Dennis, and I will say it, and I'll say it again because it's the best comparison I have. It is the closest to driving a race car on pinball that I've ever experienced. It's just fast, smooth, flowy. That thing with the little horseshoe and the orbits. And, of course, there's nothing there mechanism-wise that's going to get in your way. No, there's not. But what it doesn't have, it does. Because the ball doesn't stop. It is fast. It is coming at the speed and velocity back to your flipper. It is that you probably won't experience in many other games. You can't count them on your hand anyway. And this feels like that. It feels like this damn thing is going fast. I agree. I think this is back to... Steve always has really leaned towards flow in most of his designs I think though that there were some things that really because of the vertical up kickers and how the pops worked on Black Knight that to a lot of people perhaps felt like Black Knight Sword of Rage didn't feel in that as flowy of a vein as this is like this is more of a true to form back to a all models three flipper flow machine and again not knowing on the pro with the lack of that ramp, but on the premium LE, that if you're wanting that sort of satisfying, the ball just keeps coming and you keep making shots, and the fact that Tim's leaning into that with all this combo rewarding that's going on, it's designed, that's what flow should exploit, in my opinion, should exploit comboing because that's what it lends itself to. A flow pin in its true native state doesn't want you to trap up and two shots. In fact, that's part of my I don't have enough time on Star Wars, but part of my problem with Star Wars is some of the rules seem to feel like it wants me to stop and make choices. I don't want to make choices in flow. In flow, I want to be rewarded for continuing to shoot constantly.
    51:23
    And I think this does that. Well, you know, another thing that I like here is I do like the – you've got the drop bank, and you actually slants it, thankfully. You don't get that TNT fire right back at your face. I mean, it is made to be sweepable, as Gary pointed out. Oh, and it is so good there.
    51:43
    Also, if I had to make this better, I would have taken the rock stand-up and the lead stand-up, and I would have made those drop targets. When you have this much speed, it is nice to balance it out a little bit and to give the player, you know, people are arguing this is a bit barren. You give them something else more specific to shoot like a drop target. It slows it down a little bit. Sometimes I worry with Steve Ritchie, like you get your ACDC Pro, and it's almost unplayable to me personally because of all the stand-up targets there. But once you add some of those drop targets, it really makes it more manageable. Same with Deadpool as well. I would have loved to have seen, I know it's probably pricey and spacing issues, but the lead and the rock, if those were, keep the out-lane sabers as the stand-up targets. Make those drop targets. oh, that would have been really, really well done. But like you were saying with the flow, even when Steve Ritchie does a scoop, he'll do it to the left, he'll do it to the right. He keeps it out of the way of that main flow.
    52:43
    Yeah, I mean, he knows what works for him. And again, that's why I wasn't too surprised at what we saw because I've seen so much from him. Well, I mean, even his top scoop, like on ACDC, he'll give you that here, that's going to stop you. But once it does eject, it's not taking up both sides of an orbit. Your left orbit is still complete. But once it ejects, it ejects like it's coming from a left orbit. It ejects with power, and it's coming flowing out of that right orbit. I like it. Yeah, no, layout-wise, other than that decision to get rid of that third flipper ramp on the Pro, I don't disagree with the layout choices. The layout looks fun as shit. I just, yeah, I wish that third flipper, even on the Premium LE, I wish something else was being represented there. We've got to talk about...
    53:32
    Expression lighting? That was pretty cool. We've got to talk about the expression lighting system. Probably because it's routed in the cabinet. It didn't catch my eye initially as much as the Hot Rails do with JJP. Yep. But I thought it looked pretty cool. I'm not going to lie. It looks damn cool. I know people are like, oh, this is just a copy of a gun. Oh, they had to develop... Well, before they would have known what GNR was doing. Well, even if it wasn't, my point is, guys that are bitching, do you want this or do you want a black shot? What do you want? This is damn cool. It's interactive. We can clearly see on the screen the damn thing interacted very well, and this might even be early code. Who knows? It interacted damn well with this game, with changing the colors, equalizer kind of things going on. Some of the songs, it would flood them with certain colors, It's very psychedelic and trippy-like. I think it's damn cool.
    54:28
    And here's what I really, really like about this expression lighting. In my opinion, this probably is a biased view. I'm trying to showcase to you guys an enthusiast view. Stern listened.
    54:40
    Whenever they came out with Stranger Things, UV kit, everybody bitched and they said, that's bullshit. It should have been included in the LA. We should have known in bed. Right? That's what we heard. We should have known. I agree with them. We should have known. Sure, sure, and it's fine. Stern listens. They come back, and they put this standard on the LE, and then they go one above that, and they put this standard on a premium. When's the last time, listener, we have seen just even an Artblade on a premium standard, much less than a premium and the lights already integrated? That was great. And then they went one above that. they trumped it there and said this isn't just for the premium LE if you want one for your pro we have pre-routed the sides of these pro cabinets so that you can add this accessory later on down the line if you want to for me regardless of how it is interpreted this product or this enhancement that is stern listening and that is just a brilliant smart move on that company yeah I agree I can't really add anything else So they kept it as an option, and I like that it's there on the premium. It looks really good having the side blades on the premium.
    55:56
    And for comparison's sake, do I think the Hot Rails may have more effectiveness? Yes. See, that's not me being a show. Yes, I think so. But I loved it on Star Trek. I had those photon beams going up the play field. This is RGB. I really like this. But I think that where Jersey Jack made a mistake with their hot rail system, Stern fixed that mistake here in that when you go GNR, you go standard, Dennis. You just get the white. You can't upgrade that or nothing. That was the one complaint I had when they revealed that. I said, I even told Eric this, I said, man, I would have went or I would go as a free. I would go either ditch those lighting all together for the standard. It's too much of a tease just to have white or add it as a feature later on as an accessory. And you can't do that on the standard. You're not feeling left out here as a pro owner regarding this lighting. And I like that it's a vintage feel. Dude, this is Led Zeppelin. Look at that damn artwork on the play field. It feels like an old-ass t-shirt that came from Bonnaroo. This feels like Led Zeppelin. The old footage, the psychedelic colors. Why am I still excited about this? Because you sell them. Oh, shit. Yes, I know. I do sell them. Then why do I buy them for myself? Because you like pinball. Because you get them cheaper. That's true as well, but because there's limited liability that you have to resell. I get it. I would buy this game. It's Led Zeppelin! The spinner does look cool on the screen. Did you hear, Dennis, when you hit that spinner, it's got like a countdown or count up thing where the more spins, the higher pitch it gets until you qualify that magnet.
    57:46
    Oh, I loved it. Loved the sound of this game. The stream went off on Friday. They pulled it over to Stern's Facebook page because they were worried about DMCA. They still ran into it over there. They were even having some equipment issues with mic crackling and popping and stuff. But it is what it is. I think the United States got to see about 30 minutes before they got pulled. Canada and overseas I think may have got to see it longer. But it's all available at sternpinball.com and the Insider, free to join the Insider program if you want to watch that video. They look like they're having fun. Yeah, well, pinball is fun. I only saw about five minutes, and then I needed to do something, so I turned off the stream, and then I couldn't find it again. I thought it hadn't been an hour, and I was like, is it over? But, I mean, before I left, I was getting a little concerned because I know that Facebook does do DMCA scanning, and they kept turning up the game volume. And I thought, is this a test? Are we flirting with this on purpose? I mean, I get that the people watching wanted to hear the music better, but the people watching aren't thinking about DMCA. yes yeah and i and we knew stern was because it was on facebook for a reason what's the so that there wouldn't be some major you know because twitch will start punishing streamers they'll like take accounts away if you have too many violations when jack danger's their spokesperson he knew going into this and he was trying to prep for that as well so he knew i was surprised that they chose i think maybe for exposure sake they they went facebook instead of youtube because youtube i think they would have been fine yeah my my guess and i and no confirmation whatsoever is, but I bet you Stern just has so many more followers on Facebook than they do on their YouTube account, because I don't think they use their YouTube account very successfully. And let that be a lesson to them right there, because they need to learn to utilize that more so than outside parties. So anyway, doing Facebook with all the people that follow them on Facebook and would see, hey, Stern Pinball is now live. I mean, I thought that was actually pretty smart to do Facebook, but... You can still see it. It looked like a look like high energy fun to me. I'm looking forward to... So when are we going to get these? Well, I'm here to tell you formally that the pro production, there's going to be a small run this week actually. Do I get to have the first one? Oh God, not this again.
    60:10
    This time I going to say you know what I should say yes because I know you not going to buy this one This time around no they ran measures to make sure that these are going to locations What locations Zach There's a pandemic. Ones that are open. Oh, so Australia gets all the games. Yeah. Nothing to rub in our face. Many locations in the United States that are open. Or Canada. They're Canadians. So we're going to get a tiny run here this week. Then Stern typically, I think I'm fine saying this, They typically have a two-week down period at the beginning of the year for inventory purposes. So they'll be doing stocks and stuff like that. And then they will resume production of another pro run as well as the LE run starting in mid-January. And then the premiums should be starting in mid-February. Okay. Very typical rollout here. Yeah, I was going to say, it sounds like what I'd have guessed. Very similar to Stranger Things. They get a little bit of downtime at the beginning of the year for their own in-house reasons, and then they get them fired back up again. But they are cranking them out 70 at a time right now, 70 a day. Gary told us they're working Saturdays. They're working overtime an hour or two every night. So they're doing everything they can to really push these games out. And doing so in a very responsible way. He was showing us pictures of all the measures they're going through at the factory there. and it feels like everyone's in their own gerbil ball at that factory. Nicely done. I did want to clear up a little bit of misinformation I heard on a popular podcast this week regarding deposits and placing an order for these. I heard that on a podcast that they were saying that it's kind of bullshit because Stern requires you to pay a non-refundable deposit or your full payment up front for the LE and you haven't even seen it yet and it was going to sell out. Now, this time it's actually not even close to being true. Typically, it's a deposit that you have to pay the dealer. The dealer can choose whether it's nonrefundable or refundable. But on this one, Stern didn't even, and again, hopefully I don't get a call from Stern saying, why are you giving this information? Usually we'll have to give a deposit for our allotment of LEs, however many we want or granted. We have to give a nonrefundable immediate, usually within a couple days of announcement, payment for those LEs. Not the full amount, but a certain portion of each unit of those LEs. This time around, they didn't even make us do that. They just said, by the end of the month, we need full payment on everything. So I just want to clear that up because it is not even close to being true that you have to put a nonrefundable deposit. That might be determined by your dealer, but I know we at Flippin' Out Pinball, we didn't take any deposits. We mirrored what Stern was requesting from us. Hey, just make sure your full payment's by the end of the month here. So, it's actually a nice thing in my opinion. I just wanted to clear that up.
    63:07
    And if you want to hear more about the rules, Dennis talked about it already, but you can go check out Pinball Profile with Jeff Tieles as he interviewed the lead coder, Tim Sexton, on Stern Pinball's Led Zeppelin. In other pinball news this week, Pinball Brothers announced the release of Alien again? Again. Aliens? Everybody keeps calling it Aliens. It's Alien, right? Alien Pinball, I guess. Yeah, it's not Aliens. It has both Alien and Aliens represented as the movies in the game. Correct.
    63:40
    So the Super Awesome Pinball Show interviewed the individuals over at the Pinball Brothers, that is a Roger and Alexander, about their new plans for producing Alien Pinball. They go into it. I recommend going to listen to it if you're interested in this saga. I am. I haven't heard it yet. Okay. So I won't give away too much to you. You don't give away. That's my job. Unless you read it in the show notes. That's why I'm paid the big Xboxes.
    64:06
    We need to get you on payroll there, Dennis. You can be a consultant. Can you imagine me selling pins? Oh, I could.
    64:14
    I'd try and find a used ACDC. It'd be a Christmas miracle for me. Now, the Pinball Brothers were talking on the podcast, Super Awesome, and talked about losing $1 million on the whole highway endeavor. They were kind of throwing him under the bus throughout, saying he was an easy salesman, in other words. As you'll see here in my voice, I don't know if I trust Joe Easy here.
    64:41
    Okay. Other changes to the game, we have a smaller back box screen. Hate that. No play field screen. Not that that was overly cool, but it was still something And no side-lit cabinet on the standard That's crap What about the LE? Is it side-lit there? Who knows? That's another thing Like the LE Maybe We don't know anything about the LE We know that it's not going to be seen or heard about for another six months It's all a bit messy here I'm just reporting the facts here Who's building them? Do they have a factory?
    65:15
    Well, people were hoping The Braves have built a factory? Yeah, people were hoping Chicago Gaming or an American. No, it's still, it's based in Italy. It's called Pedretti Gaming. They're going to be manufacturing this. I don't know Pedretti. I don't either. No, they're, per that podcast, they're reputable in, they are a manufacturing company. I don't know if they make arcade games, but they are an entity. It's not like a new entity. So Pedretti Gaming from Italy. We're still dealing with overseas issues over to the States. So, again, kind of a down thing for me. They talked about the production of this, Dennis, listener, which is confusing. They said that they're announcing it, but games aren't ready. But I went to the Cointaker website, and they were doing Q1 orders, and they had 30 of them. Those sold out the first day. So I'm like, well, okay. And then one of the individuals said, quote, give them two to three months in, quote, referring to Pedretti fine-tuning these things. but then some are available in January from Cointaker?
    66:19
    So does that mean you're definitely going to get one of the first ones that aren't fine-tuned? I don't know.
    66:26
    They went on to say the production goal is ramping up to 100 plus a month. Wow. Okay. I mean, so they're saying that Pedretti's ability to put out machines is going to be superior to Spooky's output. That's what they're saying, yes. I mean, I have no context of size with Pedretti. So much unknown. I just went to Pedretti's site. It's in Italian, so it was a bit of a struggle for me. And the only thing I saw there on Pinball was them selling used games. So I believe that they probably build arcade stuff. I just don't know if – I don't know. It seems like a lot of people who build things get a little surprised when they try and build Pinball. I would think so. They say Pinball's hard. But if they've been working with Pedretti for a while now, then perhaps that's all resolved. Possibly.
    67:18
    Very possible. So their production goal, 100 plus a month. Okay, well, I find that aggressive, but hey, if they can meet that. They were talking about the play field. They said a Peter Bruner is doing the play field out of Hamburg. That's in Germany, right? Name rings a bell, but... I was looking it up. I couldn't find anything, really.
    67:37
    I might just know someone with a similar name. Regarding play field quality, they said, quote, should be no chipping, no pooling, no nothing. But then the other one chimed in and said, but there are going to be some dimples. Well, that's a win-play field. I would expect that. That's a thing. And I'm going to paraphrase a bit here. This is also confusing to me. They were saying no down payment, no pre-order, no nothing. But then again, I go over to the Cointaker website, who I believe is the exclusive dealer for Alien Pinball from Pinball Brothers here in the States. and coin takers taking deposits per their website. That might be just on there to lock in interest. That might be a coin taker thing that they're doing internally. Correct. Versus pinball brothers requiring a down payment. This is very confusing.
    68:26
    Right. I'm a bit confused as well. The pricing on this game is $7,777. Why? Who knows? Plus shipping. So it ends up, it's going to be about $8,500 or so to get it here. That's an interesting price thing. I guess it's easier to have a Merc. I don't get it. But that's the standard model. And, again, we don't – that's what sucks. You've got to decide if you want a standard model, but you don't know what the hell the LE model is going to offer, how many or how much or anything. That's messy. It's all very confusing. But they do have more titles and licenses that they have. They said, do they still have that Queen license, I wonder? God, don't mess up the Queen license. You've already got the mega hit of Alien, and you don't include Sigourney Weaver. How much was Alien Standard from Highway? Shit. I don't know offhand.
    69:13
    I think it was around here. It was around a certain premium, I thought. I'm not 100% trusting because these individuals did have money in on Highway Pinball. They were investors of this. I don't know. People are asking, were you going to be a dealer for them? I guess not. I reached out to them to voice some interest and to discuss business further, and they got a response back saying, you know, in other words, absolutely happy to talk. Once we get everything geared up for an announcement and everything, we'll reach back out. And I never received anything. And I messaged him again and said, hey, I'm assuming there's no interest. I've got, you know, a customer list of people ready to buy them. No, no response. So not great business to me. But the game looks very similar to what it once was. They took out some cool stuff, in my opinion, and they left stuff that I didn't like as much, like the artwork. But a lot of people like this game. I did check real quick. PinballPrice.com, which had the Alien Standard Edition listed at retail price of $6,450 in February 2017. Wow. That's cheap. I'm surprised that the standard isn't more expensive, to be honest, as a wide body. Yeah, but, I mean, they shrunk to baby monitor. They got rid of the in-play. I mean, they got rid of a lot of the custom stuff, it sounds like.
    70:35
    And if they're not building them yet, how in the hell are they going to know how much these things cost? Well, they already have a quote from Pedretti then.
    70:43
    I mean, ask Dutch how that worked out for them. Dutch may have had a problem with understanding how you properly negotiate a contract, quite frankly, given how they got their, you know, forgive the violent tone of it, but how they got their butts kicked in court despite insisting that they, even after they lost, they insisted that they were right on the contract interpretation. I'm like, tell it to the judge. Oh, wait, you did, and they didn't buy it. It wasn't really that violent. Were you going to go asses there? No, no. I was just like, can't you just admit you didn't know what you signed? Can't you just admit you were wrong? Why is it so hard? I'm wrong all the time, and I say so. Would you have interest in buying one because I know you're an alien fan? Not with it still being a wide body, without tweaks to the layout, no. I think the rules on it were great, are great. I think a lot of people enjoy the game for good reason. I played it at Texas Pinball Festival. I didn't like how it shot.
    71:38
    It does. It really feels like a wide body, too. Yeah, and so for me, I actually enjoyed the geometry of what they did with the wide body on Full Throttle more than Alien. I didn't mind Full Throttle. So, no, unfortunately, I mean, it is one of my favorite themes, but I don't go and buy games just because they have my favorite theme. And I can see myself owning one of these, but I didn't put in an order for the standard because I don't know what the LE looks like. I like the lit side armor. I like some of the stuff that they had on there. I don't know why they reduced the size of that back box screen. I really liked a big screen. I wonder if it was unstandard. I wouldn't think so, though. It's not like Highway was building their own screens, or were they? I mean, they went and did some weird stuff internal that they should have had. Well, my thought is if you're not going to include the Playfield screen, then make your other display big, prominent. Yeah, I get it. But on the flip side, some people might be like when the – one of the complaints I've heard from some people about JJP is they don't like that big black screen when the game's off. Like they want it to be an art piece, not a TV. Yeah, I think – So you can have a bigger back – you can have a bigger translator back glass if you're going with a smaller screen. I think it's silly because it's not backlit anyway, and then a trans light turned off looks like shit. Well, this is what they say. Damn it. And the weird thing is they did the whole Circus Voltaire thing where it looks like an old, oh, who had those big heads, like a Sega or something, where it's all like one panel, and there's little holes for the speaker, and it just looks very vertical. It looks odd. Well, I guess the first 30 are sold out, day one. People lost money. People lost money on Alien. Oh, yeah, but, hey, you can get 50% off and buy it again. Isn't that the deal they offered? The voucher? That's where we'll keep that to be continued there. As well as to be continued in 2020 is the Texas Pinball Festival. The 2021 event was formally canceled this last week. Canceled it earlier than they said was their cutoff date, but I am glad that they did. I do not blame them for choosing to announce it early. That's the right decision. Yeah, the only thing I would say is that based off of all of the expert statements regarding vaccine deployment, I'm a little surprised that they didn't cancel it the time where they gave the deadline and didn't just say, there's absolutely no way that mass vaccines are going to be available by the end of March. I think Ed was hoping for a fucking crop duster to go across America with that vaccine.
    74:11
    It would be interesting if we could do it that way. But then people would complain that you vaccinated them against their will. Anti-vaxxers. They have a point. So there'd be that. Yeah. No, it's unfortunate. But I think just it's been for months now that all the vaccine experts have said mass production disbursement would probably start at the best in April. And I think that we're looking good to meet that. But most people just won't have the shot in time. They just won't. And Ed knows the challenges of trying to socially distance in the I mean, you could mandate masks if he was willing to do it. But even with that, you've got so many people packed together for so long, and those masks aren't PPE gray. They're not personal protective equipment. So there's a lot of risk with it. If it was just lectures and stuff, there'd be one thing where you could space people out at tables, but it's not. Yeah, but then you would just do a virtual then anyway. Yeah, yeah. I think that there is a – call me crazy. You're pretty crazy, Zach. Crazy.
    75:08
    Crazy. Is that how Valvin says it? Crazy. I think that Expo can and will still happen. No, I agree. I think it will. By late summer, early fall, most people who immediately want a vaccine should be able to have it by then. Hey, I did get an email for one of those expedited ones as a health care professional. Indiana Department of Health. Well, I mean, we've already started injecting people here in this state, as most states have, with Pfizer. We started injecting people. Yeah, we just started stabbing them in the arm with Pfizer. Moderna, last I looked, still didn't have their EUA, but it almost assuredly will happen this week. And that will go out. In fact, we're already anticipating that we will receive Kansas allotments of Moderna by the 23rd. So we're playing on that. And also bear in mind that people are like, well, there's so many people to vaccinate and stuff. We've got Johnson & Johnson's vaccine will probably be ready in the next couple months. And there's also a fourth that will probably be ready around then as well. And those work on more traditional vaccine models. They're not the mRNA. Some people are – there's already misinformation about mRNA. People think it's going to turn you into a lizard and change your DNA, and that's not how it works. If we could only just become lizard people, we'd have solved this already. So my point being that They're probably going to be By March, by the start of March Four major vaccine providers Giving doses out So the volume I'm not so concerned about It's just that we We have to follow these protocols to make sure it's ready There's your COVID update From the professional himself, Dennis Creasel It'd be nice to quit talking about COVID I know, I hope you get a breather In 2021 at some point Maybe by the time of Expo Maybe I could go to Expo because I sure won't have travel money needed for Texas. Holy shit. There's a chance for Dennis in Chicago. There's a question. Are there other conferences like this year? Had Expo happened like it was supposed to, I wouldn't have been able to go because I had another conference in conflict where I have to have my annual meeting. Screw that conference. It's in the bylaws. See you somewhere else. In happier news, our very own correspondent Matt Morrison for Chicago Gaming Company kind of dropping bombs here at the end of the year. I was like, whoa, careful there, Matty. He was dropping bombs on saying, basically, it's Cactus Canyon remake coming up, and you haven't seen nothing yet for the toppers that they've got planned. It's about time. One of these damn correspondents was deep digging. That's right. That's why we call him BD, because he's the bunker buster. Oh, double M with the double B.
    77:49
    So Cactus Canyon, what kind of topper can Cactus Canyon have? my guess would be something western I think of what I would guess would be one of two things one would be either something kind of cowboy six shooter style to play up that aspect or another thing could be to really lean on that train the train toy that's in the play field and do something with a locomotive that wouldn't be redundant tell that to Stern and put in a TMNT logo or just above the TMNT logo or blimp on a blimp on a blimp I'm being unfair. Yeah, I mean, it's a little redundant, but it wouldn't have to look identical, or it could do something different.
    78:31
    I don't know what. Unfortunately, there's not easy ways to, and safely, without entering your children, to have a locomotive on top of your back box that actually shoots out steam. Maybe it's got one of those little train whistles, and it blows the air in. You see, that's what I was thinking, is you could have, like, just moving wheels. Like, you just see the little, the wheel and the link moving the wheel, and it wouldn't actually move on the back wheels. but the mechanism would move, and then it could blow the whistle and go, I want you to actually be able to be a coal-burning oven up there, and you dump coal in it, and out comes just putrid black clouds of smoke. That would be awesome for a barcade, wouldn't it? Yes. They'd love it. I don't know what it could be, but I'm super excited now. I'm really excited about that. Yay! Or you want to do, like, when they do the draw moments, Where you have to snipe one of the pop-ups, like Scolari Brothers drops are around the play field to shoot these. That'd be another thing. You could have something that, again, kind of Elvira Coughany, but, you know, actually cool. And have a guy pop up when it says hopper. Be like, draw! And the guy pop up? And he'd pop up, yeah. Oh! And then when you hit the target, or when the target resets, he goes back down. Like a shooting gallery or something. Yes, yeah. Like one of the little dolls that falls over, yeah. That actually would be badass. See what hoppers are coming? Oh, CGC, please make that true. That'd be cool. Tis the season. We're just going to be all positive rainbows in here and sugar plums and eggnogger. Next Monday, not this Monday, not today, but next Monday on December 28th, Ken Cromwell from the Jersey Jack Pinball Company will be appearing live on the Flippin' Out Pinball stream. And he's coming in like Santa Claus. He's going to be giving away some really cool GNR swag, like an autograph slash poster. Holy shit, that's actually worked good in mine. A signed upper play field by Eric Menier. Sweet! I'm still trying to get the other ones shipped out that they gave away to us. And more. So go ahead right now, go to twitch.tv slash flipinoutpinball. Subscribe so you can be notified when the boys over there go live December 28th, usually around 6 or 7 p.m. Is that flip the letter in out pinball? Oh, thank you so much. Yes, flip the letter in out pinball. I saw it, Jack. God, you're good. So, yeah, that should be a lot of fun. Ken has not appeared anywhere besides the JJP podcast for quite some time. We don't even know what he looks like anymore. I wonder if he's got a beard. I can't picture Ken with a big woolly beard. You know what? Maybe you'll hear from Ken even sooner than that. Who knows? We'll just have to wait and see.
    81:16
    Ho, ho, ho, Merry Market Trends! Oh, you must have come up with that ahead of time. Actually, you know what? Off the cuff, last five seconds. I was going to go ho, ho, ho, and as soon as I went ho, ho, ho, Merry, M, Merry Market, bop, bop. That's how my mind works. All right, well, it does work, so kudos to you for that. My mind is nothing more than a big old lump of gold. Speaking of gold, maybe even platinum, trending out this week is Led Zeppelin by Stern Pinball. Dennis hates when I trend up things that aren't even on the market yet. It's not a market. It's the same price it was last week. People are selling their LE spots for more. How about that? Are they? I don't know what's going on with the LEs. Not much. But they did all sell out immediately. All the LEs did sell out immediately, which is always good news. Frozen premiums. Sales are good on those. They're not quite to the degree I would say as an Avengers. But, surprisingly, higher than a lot of titles that you may be surprised about. Higher than Turtles?
    82:28
    I would say lower than Turtles, if I was guessing. Higher than Stranger Things? I would say, yeah. Maybe, yeah. I have to go back and crunch. No, it's got to be close. Hmm. Higher than Monsters. Higher than Black Knight. Higher than, yeah. Yeah, but those don't surprise me. Black Knight wasn't a license that anyone other than pinball people knew, and Munsters is a completely antiquated license, well past its shelf life. We did feel like when people seen this, there was a bit of a gut reaction. This thing started out from the bottom, and it rose, rose, rose, and ladies and gentlemen, that's what we call a trend. Trending up. That's not a market trend. It's in the market. It's a trend. Trending up. It's in the market. It's available. The market trends. Oh, my. It's like the trend.
    83:18
    It's going. We don't really hate it. We kind of like it a little more trend. Speaking of Led Zeppelin, turning up this week is Led Zeppelin Topper. Put it on top because it's on top of the trends this week. The market trends. And why? It's simple. It's easy. These things are selling quick. You better get your hands on one of them, at least a pre-order. How much are they? That's what the trend is, man. So the whole hypothesis that you were trying to formulate has been broken again. Was it wrong? Am I wrong yet again? Yes. So now there's no rhyme or reason. We'll talk about it after another mistake. No rhyme or reason, listener. Now, this is a motorized topper. It's got two badass spotlights on it that shine up on your ceiling and all around. Color. It's cool. It's a cool motorized topper. So what do we generally say, Dennis? Whenever it moves, it's what? It's 1,000. It's 1,000 minimum. People even were estimating that this was going to go even higher up than that because we had a turtle's topper that moved. It was 1,000, but a little movement. This has two spotlight movements. No, it is $850. Buy, buy, buy. No clue. No rhyme, no reason. This isn't a branding thing, I wouldn't think. I don't know, unless moving lights are different than moving. Eyeball? Sculpt? Yeah, I'm struggling here. But I'm going to, you know, I probably shouldn't because it's not going to help the consumer really. But here's my suggestion to start.
    84:49
    I'm assuming that they'll probably incorporate at some stage a mode, much like they have done with Avengers and what they did with Jurassic Park related to the topper, a DLC mode. It's very simple for Led Zeppelin.
    85:02
    Stairway. Wow. If you want to sell them, there you go. You'll unlock the stairway song, only with the Led Zeppelin topper. And people will lose their fucking minds. I know. And then we get to cover it. So you see, I'm giving us material. All Stern has to do is embrace the villain role.
    85:30
    Well, that would be a way to do it. That would certainly be a way to do it. Well, here's the other odd thing. Stern could have sold these very quickly at a thousand apiece. And people at this point, Dennis and listener, people are used to it. They were expecting that. But now they're leaving money on the table. I don't get it. I don't understand the rationale behind it. I'm thankful, but I just don't get it. Here's another new thing. I never know what I can and can't share. Shit. I'll just share it all.
    86:03
    Stern actually, due to the popularity of these toppers now, Stern has enlisted a specified allotment to dealers for toppers you heard it here that was probably because you were taking them all I believe so Clay Jacob was like no stop this madness it was like we're not pointing any fingers I'm glad they didn't have a I'm hoping they didn't have like a group distributor meeting with you all and you were all like this is my thing I'm the topper king have you heard the podcast You're wearing a crown just like how Steve Ritchie does. You took his crown right off his head. Where's my crown? Where's my crown at? And you're like, go back to Led Zeppelin. I'm the king of toppers. I'm the topper king. Yeah, I don't. Maybe I'm the only one that got the message here, but I think it was rolled out to everybody.
    86:55
    There's an allotment now on toppers. I think there's a little policy change to deal with one person. And there's only one problem in the room, and that one problem is you. hello me. Bye, bye, bye. So, yeah, they... I guess that starts by like, well, we were selling them, so we were happy, but all these other distributors are pissed. Son of a bitch with the podcast over there. And I will be frank, they do get those messages and calls about me, too.
    87:25
    Womp womp. Sorry. Womp womp indeed. $850 for this topper. I think that is a release. I like that. and people will still say I'm crazy for saying that's a relief. But it looks cool and I've got to have it. So bye, bye, bye. Bye, bye, bye! All screening up this week? Sure, why not? We're on Topper Talk, Star Wars Topper. Now, Dennis, here's the update.
    87:50
    The update is you're going to see Star Wars Toppers becoming increasingly difficult to get your hands on. They are now at the point of no return and good luck as you're trying to get your hands on one. I'm giving you the heads up here on Market Trends because if you ever want one, go ahead and grab one now. And if you don't, don't worry because they're still sitting in inventory. You can't grab one from Flippin' Out Pinball because we are officially sold out. We've sold out of those since you, two weeks? For some reason. I don't know. Maybe it was Ron Howlett Jr. was talking it up on Slam Chilled. He really likes his R2-D2 topper. See? And Slam Shelf Podcast is the podcast single-handedly responsible for all Stern Electronics pinball machines for quadrupling in price. That's a true statement. It's their power. It's the power they wield. Think how it's got the fluence. You know what the kids say? The fluence? They don't say that. I think they do. They say nothing. They just text now. Turning up a Star Wars pinball topper. I love mine. It's so cool. Got my Star Wars working again. Love it. Trending down this week, unfortunately, is Highway Pinball's Alien. We warned you months ago, Dennis and I, because he is totally on board with this segment. We said, if you've got one of these, the rumor is they're coming back out with them. Get rid of this damn thing, because the parts you don't know, they could be obsolete. Who knows? Nope. It's too late now, and they're on the market downtrend. Yep. Splat. There it went. Well, but if people want the ones that have the screen in the play field And the bigger back box And the Xenomorph that doesn't work It'll still be the specialer version Get your Xenomorph working Nope And maybe some of these parts will be Maybe they'll be able to get parts from Pinball Brothers That will fix up the stuff that's been really wonky Possibly But you're going to start seeing the numbers fall down Because everybody wants the new one I want the new Alien Trouble Free Alien That's the one I want Well, we saw that I mean, I think we've seen that through Chicago Gaming what happened with the medieval madnesses and Attack from Mars and Monster Bashes. Some people are like, well, it's the Trident Road classic. It's like a big, big screen. We're taking the new ones. And people in general are really happy about this new Alien release, and they're selling. I mean, that's evidenced by the pre-orders. They're selling. It's a popular game. It's been a, it's like, I would say it wasn't as well-respected as a player as Big Lebowski was, but it's still a pretty respected game. Yes, yes. I'm a little, I'm down on it for my personal reasons but as a game it a lot of people enjoy it and I would say if we talking about trends I think that the initial response from the community may be trending down as well in this new Alien. There are a lot of things that people really do not like that they're taking out or that they're changing with the new production of this. Sure, and that was always a risk. Yeah, and I don't think it was as hot of a re-release as people would have expected. They wanted to see, the things that they wanted to see changed like the art were not. And the things they were good with, they were changed. So I think this is very much mixed at best on the re-release of Alien. We'll just have to see how many, I mean, they're talking 100 plus units a month, and I'm like, yeah, but how many, what's the demand for this? 200? 300? I don't know. Yeah, who knows? I don't think it's 1,000, so. I don't. Not at that price. I don't think they sell 1,000 of them. They sell 1,000 of them if they can really crank out what they think they're going to crank out in that speed. But, I mean, this is a game from, you know, announced around, what, 2015, 2017 sales. Yeah. It still holds up, though. Competing against all this stuff. Code? Kind of.
    91:39
    If they can crank it out. It's a matter of steam rolling. We're in a world with Iron Maidens and Jurassic Parks and Guns N' Roses and Willy Wonkas and Hot Wheels that are just, I just don't know. This integrates better than most of them. As a dealer, if I had 200 of these, I could sell them within a month. Easy. That's crazy, but it's true. The desire is there, but it's this waiting. Every time a new release comes out and you're waiting for your old pin, that old pin gets more and more stale, like a piece of old bread. Right. It don't matter how cool it is. Ask Guns N' Roses. Yeah, well, that's my worry with Guns. I thought everything about the reveal and everything was so good, but are they producing them fast enough to, you know, that hype just withers and dies on the vine with so many people. As I've often said, pinball is a fickle hobby, and the new shinies distract. Put it this way, I think, this might be a strong take, I think that every Led Zeppelin LE will be produced before every Guns N' Roses CE. I don't disagree. That's nuts. Where are we at? Oh, we're in pinball market trends. That's right. Oh. Oh, God. I thought you forgot. I got acid coming up in my stomach thinking about this next one. Trending now this week is that son of a bitch piece of shit elf on a shelf. You can take that and shove it back up your fat ass Santa Claus. If I have to hide that fucking elf one more night, Dennis, I'm going to lose my mind. When did that become a thing? Because it wasn't a thing when I was little I want to send hate mail to the creator Because they are a multi-millionaire now For this stupid genius idea And they've stuck the parents with all the damn work This is ridiculous Can't wait until I shove that little Bitch back in the box I'm sorry Ellie, I love you Don't tell Santa Don't I want those new Jordans Oh yes, you and your Jordans I want that new topper I want that Led Zeppelin top I cannot stand this asshole elf It's not a thing Look, if you could just sit it on the fucking shelf It would be one thing, listener But no You've gotta have scenes You've gotta have scenarios That Ellie goes through Then you gotta have all of these purchases You make to accommodate The ongoing storyboard Of an Ellie And then it's got to build up to the final day of Christmas Eve. It's got to do all of it. I'm tired of it. I'm no theater major. It's like an exhausting Advent calendar.
    94:17
    That's what it is. That's exactly what it is. And I'm sick of it. I can't change it. My kids love it too much. Half of them don't even believe in the damn thing, but I still have to do it. Have you thought about taking their joy away?
    94:36
    you're always a proponent of that, but, um, I don't just like people that have real world expectations. Oh, like, uh, elves aren't real that show up and watch you when you're bad and tell Santa. No, no, I'm just saying, you know, I don't know if I told you that. All right. So I, of course I did not realize this when I was a kid, but, um, when we would make the Christmas, you know, we did our little Christmas lists to our folks, my sister and I, uh, and my dad would take the lists and he would always, he would remove one toy. Oh, okay. And say, we're not buying these. We're not getting them these.
    95:14
    To you guys? It was so we would, I mean, he didn't tell us this. That way we never got everything we asked for.
    95:24
    For Christmas. And it was always, it's like, because you don't always get what you want. That was his way of, apparently, as I was told, that was his way of controlling our expectations and just think that if you add things on a list, you're going to get them. Well, Mr. Creasel, job well done there. Okay. Well, and then the dark, that one was the pleasant one. And then the darker one, apparently, also had wrapped up empty boxes. And then when we were bad, they would throw one in the trash in front of us and say there was a Christmas present. That's brutal, man. That's a level of sinister that I respect. I like that. That's how this highly stable, calm co-host came to be.
    96:05
    I don't want to shake that co-host too much because I don't want them reverting back to that childhood rage of seeing a present being shredded in front of them. What was it shredded? It was a box that hit the trash. I picture like a wood chipper. Your dad's like, here. Oh, no, no. It would just be, they would, that might have been more of my mom's tactic. Mess with your sister again. All right, you punched her in the trash that goes. Oh, no, mom. I'm sorry. I'll be good. She's like, yeah, you will now or you'll lose another one. Not my black licorice. No.
    96:39
    Oh. We didn't throw away food. I did once. I got in trouble. Another present gone. No, no, no. I don't remember this one. I think it's like living with cherries and I decided they would look better in the trash. Are you sure you didn't have another sibling and they named it Krampus?
    97:00
    Seems like it's the origins of this. I'm just saying. Ellie or whatever you named it Trash can's not that far away You know what's funny now thinking about it Even I'm flexing with my elf Instead of just any old elf name Of course it's Ellie See what I did there Ellie Hmm Oh yeah Thought of that one just now too Damn I'm good Wow Let's transition to save a buck or two since it's the Christmas time of year in Deals of the Week.
    97:42
    Bye, bye, bye. Deal of the Week this week is an Ace Ventura. The first Deal of the Week this week is an Ace Ventura. Oh, you know what would sell. Was the what? Ace Ventura. Oh, my God, I would love an Ace Ventura. Oh, I would. That would be tempting. My Pinside Avatar. I mean, come on, people. It's been that way since I joined Pennside four, five, six years ago. It's Ventura in the three-point stance with the tutu on.
    98:08
    Put me in, coach. Put me in. Oh, slow motions love. Yahoo. Is that her? And you said. You said. Well, I have kissed a man. Oh, I love that movie. I can recycle. So you and I have an affinity for Zoolander and Ace Ventura. We're bonding. Do not go in there. Woo!
    98:36
    So you can beat him, fatty. Oh, the whole thing. So good. I think I'd rather have Zoolander, but I'd be happy with Ace Ventura. Yeah, I'd buy them both. I don't see. As long as I get the call-outs. I just want Zoolander to be so fun. Merman. You have to do the cough, though. You're not supposed to do the cough.
    99:04
    I got the black lung puff. Oh, my God. Oh, this is becoming way too fun. Your first deal of the week this week is a Star Wars Ellie that I'm bitter about because I would have bought this son of a bitch, but no Ellies were coming up for the market, much less one that's only $6,800 or best offer. Thanks a lot, LordVader27 on Pennside out of Soledad, California. Ugh, this is a deal, you guys. I've not seen one in the sixes for a little bit of time. This is the preferred art package for me. And you get those one-of-a-kind side armor that I'm willing, if any of the early buyers out there are willing to pull that one off of their game, I'm willing to pay big money for that. But this one's less than 200 plays, as close to mint as you can get it. Wow. Let's hope that Lord Vader does not alter the deal.
    99:57
    Do it smart. Sell me your armor. Yeah, actually, it was pretty good in this here, Mike. Your other deal of the week this week is by Lord Vader 27. A twofer. A little two-for-one deal here. A Deadpool limited edition. Oh, boy. This guy's leaving money on the table. $8,300. Steph's always working twos. That's right.
    100:26
    Steph joke is lazy, don't it? This is crazy. $8,300 for an LE. First off, that's a good price by itself, but this comes with the official topper. Buy, buy, buy! Those toppers are gone. Gone, gone, gone. Gonner than R2-D2 toppers. They are more gonner than R2-D2 toppers at this point. Pretty goners. Now, there is a hiccup on the back. The back of the cabinet, there is a... They bumped her. They bumped her pretty bad. But it's the back. It's not... On the back? Yeah, it's not visible. Almost like... Who cares? Yeah, exactly. Well, collectors do care. Tell me, Zach. Tell me of the person who cares.
    101:04
    I could list you out a lot. I mean, there are people... Never mind. Do not tell me. I do not have the time. They do care. But I would not care. I don't care. That is what I will say. I would not care. I care about the cabinet. I give full credit to the seller for revealing it. Absolutely. Because that's honest. The only downside of these sales are that they're about an hour south of San Jose. Oh, no one lives in San Jose. And it's only so sorry. Yep. Sorry. But those are hell of deals right there. Hell of deals. Maybe Elon Musk will buy them on his way to Texas. As he's smoking weed with Joe Rogan. Yeah. Maybe. You know, I think I would smoke weed with Joe Rogan and Elon Musk. That sounds like one hell of a time. Bye, bye, bye. Wow. Would you, Dennis, I know you don't partake in the cannabis, but would you for that occasion?
    101:55
    I don't think so. Oh, man, really? I don't know anything about this Joe Rogan. And Elon Musk got fined somewhat insufferable. Been saying the computer for so long it's not true.
    102:09
    You don't know this Joe Rogan? Never heard of Joe Rogan? No, I've heard of him. I don't know anything about him.
    102:16
    Yeah, I know he's a podcaster. I don't know what his show is about. I don't know. He just has an interesting guest. He's a meathead, but he's a thoughtful meathead. Okay. Well, I mean, Elon might have some interesting stuff, but I don't know when he's baked if he's interesting. I think he's more annoying, but I just want to make fun of Elon Musk. That's all. No. Those are your deals of the week. Let's go over to, oh, I know it's Christmas time. I don't want to be mean, but we still have one in our stocking. Our little two-inch creasel stocking.
    102:48
    We've got a deals of the... Christmas or not, go f*** yourself. That's harsh. This segment's mean-spirited. I don't like it. I don't know. It could have went. Deals of the ho, ho, ho. Ho. See, the... Actually, I didn't see the word. Ho. Really calling it ho. Like a ho. Yeah, that's mean too Outside of Pasadena, California Now this is an individual I believe I've interacted with and I like quite a bit So I feel bad doing this Damn it, why do I keep finding people I decently like This is Snarnoff on Pinside They're attempting to sell an ACDC, I think it's a premium It says premium slash LE but then they don't really say And from the Translight Art, usually I'm an expert at this, I can tell you. But I can't because they put the Lucy or the Helen translated in there. And it doesn't have an insignia or a badge, so I believe this is the premium in fact. So for a premium, hey, you get the Mike D. live concert video mod. I like that. You get a lot of mods. It's a beautiful game. You get the color DMD, the pinstripes, you name it. The whole kit and caboodle. But what you don't get is the fucking savings. $10,000 or best offer for an ACDC premium. Sell, sell, sell. No, no, no. Ain't got that. Not going to do it, George Bush. Not going to do it. When the game first released, some of the viewpoints were cloudy on the crystal. But this is the lower play field thing. But what if it's got additional lighting? A thousand points of light. Yeah, not a thousand dollars more. No. This isn't. No. You want me to price this thing appropriately?
    104:35
    $8,200 to $8,500. That's priced appropriately But you're not going to get that anywhere That's why it's flipping out pinball Or you can go for all the deals of the week this week This week showcasing I got $13,000 around the park at least I'd say They were the ones I know You paid for that Xbox That's right So I ain't complaining Well and It also helped this week and it's that I wasn't going to talk about it, but another one of my LEs I sold.
    105:13
    And it was another one of these things. Somebody contacted me and said, hey, do you have one of these? I said, no, those sold out when they were announced. They were looking for new ones. I just had my personal one. But can I have it? Well, I mean, it's my personal one, so we're talking mini markups. I just said I didn't want to sell it. And they said, I don't mind selling it. I can give you the mini markup price, but you'll be able to beat it somewhere else. Exactly. I said, look, you're on it. Led Zeppelin LE is coming in. It's going to probably take it. Which LE was it? Any guess? One I don't want to get rid of, per se, but it wasn't on my top of my list. Okay. One you didn't want to get rid of, but not on the top of your list. I will say that it was Avengers. That's correct. Avengers is going to be headed west.
    105:57
    To Pasadena? Nope. Nevada? Oh, okay. Yeah, it was Nevada. I think that it's heading over there to a nice collector. They had to have it, and I said, I don't, I want to wait until later. So was this at the same rate as your Jurassic Park? Just as bad, yeah. Okay. And I let the topper go with it.
    106:19
    Oh, now that's more than you did with the Jurassic Park. That's because I still had one left in stock.
    106:25
    Oh, okay. Because I thought that was a little weird just to keep the topper. Yeah, yeah. So it's gone, gone, gone. There's a thin line between being the topper king and then the topper stalker. That's what I do. It's like, no, my pretty. I'm severing you from your attachment, and I'm keeping you on a trophy shelf. I have a Beatles. I have a Jurassic Park. I've got a Black Knight. I've got a Deadpool, and I'm not Nathan. I just see them in this, like, trophy case next to your human heads, and you're just like, yeah. Sit there and drink your scotch and stare at them like the governor from Walking Dead. I do need to get the head tank one. I've sold a couple of those. I can see myself buying it again, but I'm going to give you guys a heads up on listening to a recent podcast. It was the Jesse J's Pinball Podcast with Ryan C and Kate Martin. Jesse J's Pinball Adventure. And Ryan C took over the show and had on Kate Martin. That Kate Martin. Oh, it was a good episode. She's mean to him. Wow. She's just a pistol in general.
    107:24
    She was firing on all cylinders. She was selling all kinds of stuff. Come back, Kate. We need you back. We want to hear more info. I mean, we want to hear you more. But no, Ryan C., I'm going to give him my own award. I'm going to give him the Best Analysis Award of December. He had the most poignant takes on some of the most recent games that I've owned. He was just spot on. He verbalized things in a way that I couldn't even think of, but it was perfection, talking about Rick and Morty, talking about Avengers, talking about Led Zeppelin. You gotta go listen to it And I messaged him and I was like It was a really good episode I do recommend it Him and her went back and forth Because she's girlfriends with Keith Elwin And he doesn't care And he was just Poking at Avengers And oh It was meaty I like that episode So go listen to that That was Pinball Merry Christmas And a happy new year That was it. I'm listening. And I guess that broke the protocol, didn't it? Yeah, technically. Damn it! You know what? I am a bit ashamed as we close down the show here that nobody mentioned any Christmas carols or songs during our podcast. I know a lot of people get really sick of Christmas music. Not me. I listen year-long. I worked at a bank for years, and as soon as Thanksgiving was done, It was constant Christmas And it just made me sick Speaking of being sick I eat syrup on my spaghetti once a year Just to commemorate the elf Will Ferrell Oh yeah I've seen that once You've seen it once? In the movie yeah I've seen it one time Hope you're going today I love him all year round We got this week Kissed by a rose A seal Which made me laugh hysterically Because I typed in seal the other night For the lyrics And there was a seal that popped up A picture of a seal and seal's face And they were making the same expression And it just made me giggle And I believe I can fly I would love to attempt that Just another pinball podcast But I don't know if I have the chops for it That was a joke Take on me Final round suggested As well as Barbie girl I'm not touching that one I think that no songs this week as we outro. Dennis, where can people find you? Well, they can find me sometimes here and sometimes over with Eclectic Gamers Podcast, which they can reach out to at facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast or email eclecticgamerspodcast at gmail.com. A lot of good cyberpunk talk as of late. It is buggy and it is out there. Yeah. Yay! You can contact us, like Dennis said, at the pinballnetwork at gmail.com. Big announcement coming up maybe this week or next So stay tuned and follow us on Facebook At the Pinball Network So that you don't miss out on that Make sure you're also following us on your favorite podcatcher As well as reviewing us on your favorite pod Reviewer thing Also straight down the middle A pinball video series on YouTube Go check that out We've got some new stuff coming out very soon Including Greg and I Exchanging gifts and seeing presents and that was a fun episode. We do have two top ten lists that I think you would love, Dennis. Top ten most overrated games and top ten most underrated games. Actually, those are interesting topics. I think I will watch those. Yeah. We also have some reviews coming up for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Willy Wonka. So watch, watch, watch. The Wonka review is still not out. Still not out. No, Greg, just now, a couple months ago, he had it for about four months that was able to actually put some good time on it for a review. Oh, okay. We are in now. We're always waiting for Greg to be able to play. It's Rick and Morty. I'm wanting to review it, but he doesn't have enough time. Well, Greg's busy selling houses. Absolutely. So if you're ready to buy a house, buy it from Greg. But if you're ready to buy a pinball machine, Escalera, or an arcade maybe, contact FlippinOutPinball.com. That news is a little raw. Yeah, a little bit. We won't get into it too deep yet. You're not going to find it on the website. But coming soon, 2021. Flip and Out Pinball dot com or Zach, the ACH at Flip the Letter and Out Pinball dot com. Or you can text message call 812-457-9711. Our machine showcase this week is one of Greg Bone's favorite, actually. I don't know how I was going to say yours, Dennis, but I think you like it, but it's not like your favorite. Oh, Batman. Batman 66 Premium, yeah. Yeah, I do like Batman. It's a lot of fun. That's what we're showcasing this week. We do have some in stock as well as Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Premium in stock. I think I still have a Pro, actually, too, that I'm not advertising here. I forgot about it, but I think I have a Pro. Avengers Pro, still in stock, down to a couple. Speaking of down to a couple, Hot Wheels, only one left right now in stock. Star Wars Comic Pro, only one left in stock. We can still get you the pen versions of Star Wars, both the original comic book as well as Guardians. One left in stock in MMR accessories as well as used games. I got a Hobbit. I got Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Pro. They're cheap, cheap, cheap, too. and what else I got? Oh, Iron Man Vault.
    112:48
    I like Iron Man a lot. I've been playing it. That's a fun game. Piss me off, but it's a fun game. You've always been fairly cold to Iron Man. I have, but every time I pull one into the shop, I always love it for a little bit and then it grows cold again. I don't know. Well, it's not a deep game. Yeah.
    113:04
    So that was that. Last week on TPN, as we're wrapping up, sorry, long episode here. Final round, did interview Chris Stevens. That was enjoyable. Just the general banter between Marty and Joe. a highlight this week. Early on, you get to really hear Jeff's love of Led Zeppelin. Oh, yes. A whole lot of love. Oh, sorry.
    113:26
    Let it slide this time. It just comes out of me. I've got so much joy. I know. It's the theme to be unable to control yourself. It's just shocking. That's so true. Midweek Show featuring Craig Bobby. He interviewed Deeper correspondent for TPS, Chris Chandler, about the behind-the-scenes workings and his experience going to Deep Root facilities. He was pretty good, other than Craig tried to turn Chris against me, which is pointless. I think it was a light attempt at best. No, I think Craig did his absolute best, and his best just wasn't very good. Oh!
    114:01
    Try again, Bobby. Jesse J's Pinball Adventures was hosted like we said. Catch you on the flip side in hell. Oh, let's see. Poor Craig, man. And Craig might get it worse than me from you. No. I know. That's not true. I was just trying to tell myself that. I mean, segregating the M&Ms demand, that was a little much, Craig. So I'm just, I'm busting some M&Ms here. So Jesse J. already mentioned, yeah, with this time hosted by Ryan C. And not Jesse J. I don't know what's going on over there. Yeah. That's interesting. They're firing each other is what they're doing. It's vicious and cruel and fascinating. So we allow it to play out. At TPN, we do not interfere with what the judges do. But I feel like at some point we're going to be a custody judge or something. I don't know how I feel about this. Well, if things get to, like, they start insulting entire continents or something, we may have to step in then. That's very true. I don't know. I might hedge my bet on Jessie J right now. She's been putting in some extra work, I will say, for TPN, doing a really fine job with us over there as a group, helping other people out. So that's great. Brian, he just Brian, not at all. That's all he does. He makes us all jealous about his hair and beard and facial hair. He probably has great body hair, too. You said beard and then you said facial hair. I'm like, oh, you're just repeating yourself. No, I'm even saying his fucking ear hair is probably nice. Who knows? Just another pinball podcast with our buddy Joel. He was catching up on some new pinball releases, and he also suggested a new pinball gold milestone for all to achieve. And that is earning a compliment from pinball media sensation Dennis Creasel. He said that's probably his biggest goal now. He doesn't know if he'll accomplish it. But he said that, he just, he heard the spark in Chris Chandler and he just strives for that now. And I couldn't agree more. I downloaded the episode this morning so I haven't played it yet. So I had not heard this. You'll hear it. And it was sincere. It wasn't an asshole. It was sincere.
    116:07
    Not like from you. It was sincere. There's a growing list of us that are looking for that adornment. But it may take a little time. I also want to congratulate the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast with their 50th episode. I wasn't able to submit anything for that. So from Dennis and I, congratulations. But I will say that Josh did describe his dismay, Dennis, of my appearance on their show. And still to a very significant degree. You are their number. Remember, your solo appearance is their number one episode. To a significant degree. We're not splitting hairs here. And Josh Rupp said, I don't know how.
    116:42
    But he was serious, Dennis. Like, it caught him off guard. He's like, God, I don't know how. In a way, I do understand that. What? No, it's nothing negative towards you. It's that if people want to hear you, they can really easily. Like, you don't shut up. So you're kind of available, like on this show weekly, for example. And I haven't satiated, apparently. I mean, I'm only reporting facts here. Numbers don't lie. And so from that, like an outsider looking in, you would think, oh, people want to hear from voices they don't often get to hear from. You would never fall into the bucket of a voice that we don't often get to hear from. I see. But numbers don't lie. Absolutely. then Josh was like well you know Keith's been on here 14 times so that was my joke I'm sure it's because he's interesting he works on games he's a designer it doesn't seem like they just want Keith to be number one so they're just going to have him keep trying I know give him a lettering jacket shit no but he said well he's been on here more so in total he's probably and then Scott well let's be Let's be careful here because he said Dennis and Zach, when they appeared, they get the number three spot in listens, too. So he was like, it's not an anomaly.
    118:00
    There's something to this. Yeah, but part of that number three probably was useful by the fact that that is the Scott tears into deep roots.
    118:09
    It's just like Scott had all the blades out. He had sharpened his Deadpool katana and he was turning away.
    118:17
    But, you know, numbers don't lie, like you said. the facts of the facts. We got the number one listen to episode over there and the number three. And, you know, we allowed Keith Elwin to get in that second and fourth spot. I just, I don't want to show up on there again because it's all over. I mean, I guess it becomes a Zach show at that point. So, I think downplaying me is probably a good thing. Well, okay, I guess there were a lot of jokes made about how many times Keith has been on. Yeah, so I'm going to let them have that. They don't have to highlight me. And I'll still shine for them like a piece of gold. Coming up this week on TPN Possibly a holiday drop of the Puppet Pals I like how we always have to hedge with Puppet Pals I know Maybe We don't really never know what the puppets will ultimately do Fucking Steve Ooh, Silver Ball Chronicles I think it was before year's end We might have a Silver Ball Chronicles Yes, now that almost assuredly will happen before New Year's Okay, okay And we don't know the topic yet So mystery's still out there Alright, ladies and gentlemen Happy holidays Thank you all for the continued support in 2020. It's been a shit year overall, but we've been here with you each and every week, and we're not going to stop now. And I hope you all open up a Christmas gift that's better than anything you can purchase, and that's love and nurturance from those that you love and your friends around the world in pinball. Just hopefully you consider us two of them. For Dennis Creasel, I'm Zach Manning. Remember, you can now go and get the let out and always practice safe pinball by taking a goddamn elf on the shelf, shoving it in the box, and not seeing that wretched piece of shit until next December. Up. So long, everybody. There's a lady who's sure all the glitters is gold and she's buying the stairway to heaven.
    120:12
    Hey, we'll punch this. We'll throw this in an hour, Zach. You're so optimistic